Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Speaker 1: Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and welcome the
Speaker 1: Fat Meets Fridays and the Jay Lunch Club are very Special.
Speaker 1: Myst known as by regular contributor Gina Towns is Doctor
Speaker 1: Ted william the Third and Indicator, actor, author who teaches
Speaker 1: political science at the City Colleges of Chicago. He's a
Speaker 1: graduate of the University of Chicago, Rutgers University, and Northern Seminary.
Speaker 1: His acting credits include NBC's Chicago pd Showtimes, The Shy,
Speaker 1: various films, plays, and commercials for companies including Empire Carpet, Cheerios,
Speaker 1: and Subway. Williams is the former host of WYCC PBS Televisions,
Speaker 1: The Professors, author of the book The Way Out Christianity,
Speaker 1: Politics and the Future of the African American Community, and
Speaker 1: creative the musical theater production sixteen nineteen, The Journey of
Speaker 1: a People for the Chicago City Council. He currently serves
Speaker 1: on the Illinois Reparations Commission. He and his wife, Roslyn,
Speaker 1: have three children. Doctor Ted Williams Welcome forward on Fat
Speaker 1: Meat Fridays to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show and with
Speaker 1: our creator Gina Towns. Hi, Ted, I think Ted's having
Speaker 1: has to be unmuted.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: It is so good to be with you guys again
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: I apologize trying to stay together here, but it's going
Speaker 2: to see all again this week and that happy LKA
Speaker 2: week slash month slash here.
Speaker 1: Ted, thank you so much for contributing with us most
Speaker 1: responably Monday Welcome, where we were invited as the keydom
Speaker 1: speaker of their annual Martin King Junior Commemorative event. More
Speaker 1: than six hundred and fifty people were present, and at
Speaker 1: the conclusion of the program, Doctor Williams joined me here
Speaker 1: live on Jesse Jackson Junior Show. We went upstairs, found
Speaker 1: us good Wi Fi and we call into the show
Speaker 1: Doctor Williams. Before we get to a number of contemporary
Speaker 1: issues that are confronting the country in this first segment,
Speaker 1: share with us your thoughts about the legacy of Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Junior. January fifteenth, twenty six.
Speaker 2: Doctor King is probably the most significant American with respect
Speaker 2: to the issue of freedom and equality and justice for
Speaker 2: all people. Without doctor King, the promises of America are
Speaker 2: really not true. For all people. We hold these truths
Speaker 2: to be self evident, that all men are created equal
Speaker 2: in are endowed by their creators with certain an able rights,
Speaker 2: among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If
Speaker 2: doctor King does not live and does not do the
Speaker 2: work he does, along with myriad other significant civil rights leaders,
Speaker 2: including your father, we recognize that America is not America,
Speaker 2: as Langston Hughes so eloquently said, and so doctor King
Speaker 2: and the civil rights struggle the country. I'd be thanking
Speaker 2: us and the leaders of this and doctor King and
Speaker 2: people that worked with him for that, because it has
Speaker 2: truly made America live up to what it's said on paper.
Speaker 2: And I can tell you that immigrants who come from
Speaker 2: across the world see what happened for our people in
Speaker 2: the sixties and the fifties, and they have hope for America.
Speaker 2: And without that, I will tell you it'd be a
Speaker 2: much different place. And if we cannot extend this promise
Speaker 2: to all people, then the country has no real future.
Speaker 1: And you know, Ted, you know, and I think and
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to cut you off, that was an
Speaker 1: next and I promise you, but when I think about
Speaker 1: you know, with hygends. We rely upon the legacy of
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior in just about every single protest
Speaker 1: within the context of our democracy even to this day
Speaker 1: that had, me to your point, not existed, and we
Speaker 1: think about the leaders that did exist during the period, Malcolm,
Speaker 1: to stoke the to other community students who were rising up.
Speaker 1: Their frame of reference for us in twenty twenty six
Speaker 1: would not be the same frame of reference if King
Speaker 1: simply had never existed. To your point, his contribution just
Speaker 1: that extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, my brother. You know, right before I came on
Speaker 2: with you all, I was watching a documentary on Colin
Speaker 2: Kaepernick and the story of his protests just now ten
Speaker 2: years ago. He first took that knee in at twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen football season, and to watch the reaction to his
Speaker 2: efforts and other NFL players f first to bring light
Speaker 2: to the issue of social justice and police brutality, it
Speaker 2: reminds me of what doctor King lived for, what he
Speaker 2: fought for, and what he ultimately died for. And I
Speaker 2: think the greatest thing that we can do in recognizing
Speaker 2: his legacy, my brother, and I know you know this
Speaker 2: very well, is to live it today. We still have
Speaker 2: such a long way to go when we have people who,
Speaker 2: as I watched this brother get treated as if he
Speaker 2: was not an American citizen. And to see the history
Speaker 2: of sports protests, mak mul Abdul Rauf in the NBA
Speaker 2: who lost his job and his home for protests, and
Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali and the way that they treated him, it
Speaker 2: just just illuminates the need for each one of us
Speaker 2: to continue fighting because we still have such a long
Speaker 2: way to go, Gina.
Speaker 1: We have about a minute before we come forward.
Speaker 3: When we come forward, certainly I want to take a
Speaker 3: deeper dive into what made doctor tick because like us,
Speaker 3: you know, we're studying what he said, how he said it,
Speaker 3: why he said it, and the time in which he
Speaker 3: said it. But he studied some people too, and he
Speaker 3: came to some conclusions that he was able to share
Speaker 3: with us. And you know, in that way, history was
Speaker 3: always flying. It's kind of like when he said in
Speaker 3: the speech, you know, I wish that I could have
Speaker 3: lived here. That would have been great in this time period,
Speaker 3: and I could have lived here, But I am happy
Speaker 3: that I'm right here in this period. And so as
Speaker 3: we reach back for him, I have some things that
Speaker 3: I wanted to take some comparisons on and we'll come
Speaker 3: forward and we will get right back to doctor King.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior Moore on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 1: In just a moment, Hey, you're listening to the Jesse
Speaker 1: Jackson Junior Show. If you're on the Golden State, the
Speaker 1: Santa Anna, the Santa Monica, the San Bernardino, the San Diego,
Speaker 1: the Harbor of the Century, What Hill, as well as
Speaker 1: the Satin Grave, Gabriel River and Long Beach Freeway. Right
Speaker 1: here on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. This is fat Meet
Speaker 1: Fridays with Gina Towns and our very special guest, doctor
Speaker 1: Ted Williams, the Third Gina. When we here, We are here, Ted,
Speaker 1: we are here, my brother. It is the end of
Speaker 1: the week and.
Speaker 4: A day.
Speaker 2: Uh. Ed.
Speaker 1: Gina wanted to go, I think a little bit deeper
Speaker 1: into some of the ideas and the motivating. Just before
Speaker 1: the break, she said she wanted to know what made
Speaker 1: doctor King tick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think a lot about to influence him.
Speaker 2: We understand that no one and then all of us
Speaker 2: come from somewhere, that we are all influenced by various people.
Speaker 2: And I'm, you know, being a student of doctor King,
Speaker 2: and so many of us are. I think about Henry
Speaker 2: David Throw, and I think about his eighteen fourty eight
Speaker 2: essay on the duty of civil disobedience, and I think
Speaker 2: about how.
Speaker 1: About his.
Speaker 2: Actions to refuse paying taxes and to be jailed rather
Speaker 2: than support a war that would expand slavery into Mexico.
Speaker 2: And doctor King being as a college student so inspired
Speaker 2: by seeing the idea that you could take whatever you
Speaker 2: were engaged in, rather than using the weapons of war,
Speaker 2: use the weapons of peace and resistance and make statements.
Speaker 2: And I will flip that back around to what I
Speaker 2: was saying before the break. I am so inspired when
Speaker 2: I see those things, that tradition of civil disobedience continuing,
Speaker 2: Thinking about some of the protests that have happened in
Speaker 2: the NFL and the NBA and other places like that,
Speaker 2: it inspires me because it shows us that, as doctor
Speaker 2: King took Throw's words and his life and his experience
Speaker 2: and his example, we today in twenty twenty six can
Speaker 2: take doctor King's experience life an example and apply that
Speaker 2: in every place or in space that we find ourselves
Speaker 2: in academia, in the sports world, and the media, and
Speaker 2: resist through civil disobedience issues that we find morally reprehensible,
Speaker 2: police brutality, inequality, blatant racism, the takeover the American imperialism
Speaker 2: and takeover foreign governments. And I think that the in
Speaker 2: closing on this, the way that we really live out
Speaker 2: Doctor King's legacy is that we find places in spaces
Speaker 2: today to enact our own forms of civil disobedience.
Speaker 1: Gina, your thoughts on what made doctor King tick?
Speaker 3: Well, certainly I have a couple of slides that that
Speaker 3: I want to put up for those who can see,
Speaker 3: but we'll certainly have a discussion around them. When King
Speaker 3: came to the march on Washington, I think he really
Speaker 3: had contemplated the presidency and the evolution of of Abraham Lincoln,
Speaker 3: and he came to cash a check, if you will,
Speaker 3: on the promise that America had delivered. And so when
Speaker 3: you think about he says, in a sense, we've come
Speaker 3: to our nation's capital to cash a check with the
Speaker 3: architects of our republic. It wrote these magnificent words of
Speaker 3: the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They were signing
Speaker 3: a promissory note to which every American was to fall air.
Speaker 3: And sometimes we forget, you know, when people say in
Speaker 3: our community in particularly, well, it wasn't written for us. Well,
Speaker 3: there was an amendment that was added. In fact, there
Speaker 3: were three amendments that were added as a result of
Speaker 3: the evolution and the resolve that President Lincoln had. And
Speaker 3: so that's what we have to hold on. That's the
Speaker 3: check that he went to cash to remind us as
Speaker 3: the people that we are part of this, and so
Speaker 3: here channeling all throughout the month of January what happened
Speaker 3: on this day in African American history, because it's not
Speaker 3: just a month for us in February, it is people
Speaker 3: who have ascended in January twentieth. We looked at the
Speaker 3: importance of that date earlier in the week ted that
Speaker 3: is the Barack Obama is inaugurated as president, Kamala Harris
Speaker 3: is inaugurated as the vice president, and certainly there are
Speaker 3: a lot of other things. But as we go through
Speaker 3: all these the contribution of black people and the progress
Speaker 3: here we have Daniel Hall Williams here at Provident Hospital
Speaker 3: in Chicago eighteen ninety three, and then Susan Rice in
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine. And that was the reason I
Speaker 3: said earlier that it seems like about every sixty or
Speaker 3: one hundred years, we have to revisit our freedom. We
Speaker 3: have to remind ourselves in two generations, three generations later
Speaker 3: that you know, perhaps this is not the end of
Speaker 3: our struggle, but we have ancestors that we can reach
Speaker 3: back to.
Speaker 1: You know, when I think about in this moment, Doctor King,
Speaker 1: Gina and Ted, I envision a man in a very
Speaker 1: very crowded space, and he lifts up his arms with
Speaker 1: very pointed elbows, and very gingerly he begins swinging to
Speaker 1: create some space for himself, some space. While the analogy
Speaker 1: itself is imperfect, what Doctor King has done in our
Speaker 1: consciousness is he has created a space for action for us,
Speaker 1: a space that did not exist, a train of thinking
Speaker 1: linearly that allows us to fight in every generation in
Speaker 1: a spirit of love, in a spirit of nonviolence, a
Speaker 1: way of overcoming whatever the particular evils are. And he
Speaker 1: referred to himself as man adjusted. He didn't see himself
Speaker 1: in any other negative term, but maladjusted. There are people
Speaker 1: who had adjusted to the status quo. They had gotten
Speaker 1: used to it, they had gotten silent. They were comfortable
Speaker 1: with the way things were. They didn't want to be
Speaker 1: an agitator. They didn't want to be a fly in
Speaker 1: the middle of someone's milk. But Doctor King expanded that
Speaker 1: space for us. So we know how to react to
Speaker 1: George Floyd, We know how to react to the kidnapping
Speaker 1: of Maduro. We know and we have liberty in the
Speaker 1: space to condemn what took place to Renee Good in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: That that space that we function in isn't reactionary. That
Speaker 1: like the young man who took his rifle to Minnesota
Speaker 1: determining that he was going to defend property at a
Speaker 1: very young age and was subsequently set free by.
Speaker 5: The justice system, it seems to me that the space
Speaker 5: that we operate in is a space that matters to
Speaker 5: my sense of morality, my sense of Christianity.
Speaker 1: It is a space that matters to Buddhism. It is
Speaker 1: a space that matters to Judaism. It is a space
Speaker 1: that matters to Islam. It is a space that we
Speaker 1: did not have access to until Doctor King raised his
Speaker 1: elbows and said, listen, we don't have to be conformist.
Speaker 1: We can fight, we can fight the power. But this
Speaker 1: is how we're going to fight the power, and we're
Speaker 1: going to do it with our heads high and with
Speaker 1: a level of profound dignity, Doctor Williams.
Speaker 2: Yes, I really, you know, as you're talking about your
Speaker 2: friend Kyle Rittenhouse thinking about that, because I'll tell you
Speaker 2: guys this I was in. Actually, here's a funny story.
Speaker 2: After we spend our time together on Monday and we
Speaker 2: did a radio show after your keynote, I stayed in
Speaker 2: the area for a little while and went to a
Speaker 2: mall and.
Speaker 1: Connected in.
Speaker 2: The suburban northern suburban Chicago, And was walking through the
Speaker 2: mall and saw a store where in the front of
Speaker 2: the window of the store were t shirts that said,
Speaker 2: you know, God is good and Heaven is great and
Speaker 2: you should live in principles of Godliness and things like that.
Speaker 2: And then I saw behind that a huge wall sized
Speaker 2: American flag. I saw a display of guns and AMMO,
Speaker 2: and I saw a display with Charlie Kirk quotes. And
Speaker 2: it made me think about how this conflation of white nationalism,
Speaker 2: this American patriotism identity with theology and the violence that
Speaker 2: is so represented by the Second Amendment is really what
Speaker 2: doctor King was fighting against in the nineteen fifties and sixties,
Speaker 2: and that strand still exists today. As we were talking
Speaker 2: about the significant dates from January. The one date I
Speaker 2: thought about that we did not talk about potentially was
Speaker 2: January sixth, which might be as significant in this conversation
Speaker 2: about our rights because of what we still are fighting
Speaker 2: against and how we have to be vigilant in this
Speaker 2: space and in this way, and so in so many
Speaker 2: ways as you talk about, doctor King carved out the
Speaker 2: space for himself, and he made sure that the country
Speaker 2: understood where we needed to go after you know, maybe
Speaker 2: we'll come back around to this. I've got a few
Speaker 2: thoughts about the eye have a dream speech directly, and
Speaker 2: some quotes that I wanted to pull, But I think
Speaker 2: that for me, it reminded me that we cannot rest.
Speaker 2: It reminded me that we must stay vigilant. It reminded
Speaker 2: me of the things that you were talking about and
Speaker 2: how the work still needs to be done because we
Speaker 2: still have a world in which militarism material is and
Speaker 2: racism reign very heavily.
Speaker 1: Gene, I thought you're slide with Daniel Hall Williams, the
Speaker 1: first African American to perform, or at first American maybe
Speaker 1: the first person in the world to perform to perform
Speaker 1: open heart surgery right here at Provident Hospital here in
Speaker 1: the city of Chicago. And then in that intervening space
Speaker 1: is Martin Luther King Junior, of course, and then of
Speaker 1: course Susan Rice and the opportunities that she and Colin
Speaker 1: Powell and Condoli sa Rice and Eric Holder and obviously
Speaker 1: Barack Obama. The space that they could operate in would never,
Speaker 1: would forever never be seen as a space that wasn't
Speaker 1: appealing to all. They weren't just, if you will, leaders
Speaker 1: on our side of town, Gina. They were leaders who
Speaker 1: emerged in their own rights to global significance because of
Speaker 1: the roles in which they played and the presidents they
Speaker 1: had the opportunity and the people of course to serve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's a great point. And thinking about
Speaker 3: what Ted was saying, I began to wonder, is this
Speaker 3: the ongoing fight between good and evil? In our last segment, Meek,
Speaker 3: you just said, you know, very plainly, and we've had
Speaker 3: lots of guests who have called what is going on
Speaker 3: right now evil? And I went back to the I
Speaker 3: have a dream speech. And for those who cannot see uh,
Speaker 3: there is on our screen. If you get a chance
Speaker 3: to download the podcast, you will see Lincoln at the
Speaker 3: Lincoln memorial, sitting in his chair and overlooking the mall,
Speaker 3: and doctor King giving his I have a dream speech,
Speaker 3: and it's almost prophetic in some ways to see this,
Speaker 3: and King says that we must forever conduct our struggle
Speaker 3: on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must
Speaker 3: not allow our creative protests to degenerate into physical violence.
Speaker 3: The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community
Speaker 3: must not lead us to distrust all white people. For
Speaker 3: many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their present
Speaker 3: here today, have come to realize that their destiny is
Speaker 3: tied up with our destiny. We cannot walk alone. That
Speaker 3: almost is prophetic in that this is a struggle that
Speaker 3: will go on until the end of time. I guess
Speaker 3: the struggle has gone on since the beginning of time,
Speaker 3: that struggle for a higher plane of dignity and discipline.
Speaker 2: And I would agree with you on that, Gina, that
Speaker 2: that battle we must continue to fight. The one that
Speaker 2: I I think exhausted in fighting is I think many
Speaker 2: of us are, is the one that deals specifically with
Speaker 2: the dynamics within this American context, the created and constructed
Speaker 2: identity of race. Right that did not exist even four
Speaker 2: or five hundred years ago. In the same way the
Speaker 2: understanding in a capitalist system, this hierarchical look at how
Speaker 2: some ought to be at the top, and it is
Speaker 2: okay to have the masses at the bottom struggling to
Speaker 2: find housing and struggling to have healthcare while we have
Speaker 2: billionaires who millionaires who get tax brace consistently. I'm okay
Speaker 2: with the struggle. Theologically, as the three of us understand
Speaker 2: very well of good and evil. What I am exhausted
Speaker 2: from is the struggle of race, class, and inequality and
Speaker 2: how that manifests itself. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: as I recognize as even theologically, the Bible teaches us
Speaker 2: that the poorlow always be with us, and so we
Speaker 2: know we'll never live in utopia. I'm just at the
Speaker 2: place in America. I'm like, man, can we get a
Speaker 2: little less poverty, Can we get a little less racism?
Speaker 2: Can we get a little less violence in the country.
Speaker 2: That's where I want to get to.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking in this moment that America as
Speaker 1: conceived and the wealth that we have been able to
Speaker 1: generate since the inception of the Republic, I'm not so
Speaker 1: sure that that admonition in the Bible that the poor
Speaker 1: will be with us always is a reality. It is
Speaker 1: something that we choose to allow to happen because of
Speaker 1: our lack of concern for neighbor. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior.
Speaker 1: More on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. When we come forward,
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Speaker 1: Junior Show on LA Talk fifteen eighty. We're closing out
Speaker 1: our King celebration and commemoration and reflection. We do have
Speaker 1: some final thoughts.
Speaker 3: Gina Hi, Jeff heighted Hey, thirteen Amendments. What I thought
Speaker 3: when I was doing a little bit of research on this,
Speaker 3: it was very interesting to see that passage of the
Speaker 3: thirteenth Amendment part in the opera. If you're watching, if
Speaker 3: you're listening, it's this January eighteen sixty five. Lincoln makes
Speaker 3: a deliberate plan to ensure passage of the thirteenth Amendment
Speaker 3: a king cure for all the evils. Lincoln viewed the
Speaker 3: Thirteenth Amendment as God's cure for America's sin with slavery,
Speaker 3: and then he says, I leave it to you to
Speaker 3: determine how it shall be done. But remember that I'm
Speaker 3: the president, clothed with immense power, and I expect you
Speaker 3: to procure these votes. He felt really strongly about it,
Speaker 3: in a prophetic kind of way. Not that he himself
Speaker 3: was entrenched in any word of spirituality. We don't find
Speaker 3: that about him, but certainly he feels that way about
Speaker 3: the ill of slavery, the mistreatment of people. And I
Speaker 3: find that King is pulling from him, and you know
Speaker 3: hence he gives his very last speech at the feet
Speaker 3: of King in Washington, at the at his statue.
Speaker 2: I would also add to this about Lincoln, which I
Speaker 2: find to be partially problematic, is that the idea of
Speaker 2: the devil's in the details. So when Lincoln says, hey,
Speaker 2: I will leave this, you determine how it shall be done.
Speaker 2: That is more than an ancillary comment. What Lincoln does
Speaker 2: by passing the thirteenth Amendment is still leave in this
Speaker 2: clause that has unfortunately terrorized the African American community since
Speaker 2: the thirteenth min was passed. Saying that slavery shall not
Speaker 2: exist except as a punishment for a crime.
Speaker 4: This was not.
Speaker 2: An unimportant phrase, and we have seen post the past
Speaker 2: of the Thirteenth Amendment We've seen countless institutional efforts, generational
Speaker 2: efforts to use mass incarceration as a new form of slavery,
Speaker 2: as a new form of discrimination, as a new form
Speaker 2: of isolation, And to this day, in twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: still are wrestling with these questions. When African American males
Speaker 2: make up about six percent of the population but make
Speaker 2: up about sixty percent of the people who are incarcerated
Speaker 2: in this country, we recognize very clearly that this was
Speaker 2: beyond imperfect in this way, and America, we have got
Speaker 2: to do the We've got to have these conversations because
Speaker 2: we are still in many ways suffering, and I think
Speaker 2: that we Yeah, I just think it's that we do that.
Speaker 2: As I look at the legacy of Lincoln. When I
Speaker 2: was younger, I used to look at him as a
Speaker 2: true hero. I still think that he is heroic in
Speaker 2: what he accomplished for us, But I also recognize the
Speaker 2: severe limitations that we're wrestling with still today.
Speaker 3: And that's why I believe King says that the struggle
Speaker 3: is our struggle, our forever struggle must be non violent,
Speaker 3: and so it is a perpetual struggle good versus evil
Speaker 3: for the oppressor and the oppressed to fight and non violently.
Speaker 1: In this case, I see to both of your point.
Speaker 1: See that in the era of Lincoln, those Americans would
Speaker 1: have been deeply troubled those who are on the abolitionist
Speaker 1: side of the equation by Old Testament scripture, the Exodus story,
Speaker 1: the Moses story as being essentially fatal to the idea
Speaker 1: of civilization, and that on the other side of the
Speaker 1: Moses story is this idea of a promised land, a
Speaker 1: new Israel, that the architects of our Republic were at
Speaker 1: least trying to get to conceptually and certainly spiritually. I
Speaker 1: say that to say that Lincoln's challenge is a little different.
Speaker 1: Unlike any other form of slavery in the history of
Speaker 1: the world. We are the only people who've had to
Speaker 1: amend a constitution to get out of it, requiring the
Speaker 1: people themselves to assent to the idea that chattel slavery
Speaker 1: would be illegal going forward, coming out of the Civil War.
Speaker 1: Now does the Thirteenth Amendment ban other forms of slavery,
Speaker 1: labor or wage slavery, or forms of discrimination that may
Speaker 1: present themselves in different form that one might consider to
Speaker 1: be as oppressive as some form of slavery and slavery
Speaker 1: in the various forms that it has presented itself. After
Speaker 1: the channel system itself is destroyed by the thirteenth Amendment,
Speaker 1: and so one could argue that we are in some
Speaker 1: form of healthcare slavery, some form of education slavery, some
Speaker 1: form of environmental slavery, as long as the system that
Speaker 1: we live in remains separate and unequal, and without the
Speaker 1: human right to be out of those systems, the legal
Speaker 1: right to be out of those systems, we still find
Speaker 1: ourselves trapped in the existing systems. Let me close on
Speaker 1: this the structure of a constitution under the Bill of Rights,
Speaker 1: and particularly the Tenth Amendment, which became, of course, that
Speaker 1: amendment that the slave holders themselves wrapped their legal theories around.
Speaker 1: If the right itself is not in the constant, the
Speaker 1: Tenth Amendment says, then it is a right that belongs
Speaker 1: within the purview of the states. And so, of course
Speaker 1: the slaveholders are argued, since the word slavery is not
Speaker 1: in the constitution, we have a right to do what
Speaker 1: we want down here in Georgia. We got a right
Speaker 1: to do what you want over here in Alabama. You
Speaker 1: can't tell us down here in Texas what we can
Speaker 1: do with our Negroes or Tennessee. But once the Constitution
Speaker 1: is amendment, we now have a constitutional right, a human
Speaker 1: right not to be born into a condition of slavery
Speaker 1: or of chattel servitude. So if that's the framework states
Speaker 1: rights separate and unequal, and the idea of human right,
Speaker 1: a human right not to be in slavery, I'm of
Speaker 1: the opinion that we need more human rights added to
Speaker 1: the Constitution, and they have to be added in the
Speaker 1: form of amendments. Because on one side of the thirteenth
Speaker 1: Amendment we do know existentially there is a slave system.
Speaker 1: What we do know on this side of its addition
Speaker 1: to the Constitution, there's a fourteenth fifteenth Amendment, and we're
Speaker 1: towards something. I'd like to see us separate health carelessness.
Speaker 1: Let that be the past, give everybody a future that
Speaker 1: is the right to healthcare. Let the idea that no one,
Speaker 1: no citizen has the right to vote, it's controlled by
Speaker 1: the states. Let that be the system of the past.
Speaker 1: Let's build a super highway from Maine all the way
Speaker 1: to California in our democracy where everyone has a fundamental
Speaker 1: constitutional right to vote. Let's let any quality for women
Speaker 1: be the era of the past. Let's advance the Equal
Speaker 1: Rights Amendment and let the constitution divide the old era,
Speaker 1: the slave era of how we treated women with respect
Speaker 1: to their rights by empowering them with the constitutional right
Speaker 1: to an equal Rights Amendment. Where everybody's on notice that
Speaker 1: if you think you can pay a woman or treat
Speaker 1: a woman differently in the system, she now has a
Speaker 1: legal right to object, and there are legal, civil and
Speaker 1: potentially even criminal consequences for any form of subjugation on
Speaker 1: those questions. But the paradigm that's essentially set by Lincoln
Speaker 1: is that human rights are forever enshined in the Constitution.
Speaker 1: We the people said, got to add them. We got
Speaker 1: to add them to the Constitution.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 2: I mean, I love it, and I think what you're
Speaker 2: saying is so timely because we are in the two
Speaker 2: hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the nation. We ought to
Speaker 2: be having these conversations across the country, Jesse and Gena
Speaker 2: to say this was the past, this was the old,
Speaker 2: how will we go forward in the new? And what
Speaker 2: you are talking about the issues that we're dealing with
Speaker 2: still two hundred years you know, almost two hundred years
Speaker 2: after this, and you know, four hundred years after you know,
Speaker 2: our folks came to this nation, we're still dealing with
Speaker 2: these fundamental questions of what it means to be a
Speaker 2: human being, a citizen and American. This ought to be
Speaker 2: a crossroads for this country to say we will not
Speaker 2: go forward the next two hundred and fifty years without
Speaker 2: guaranteeing these rights.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show.
Speaker 1: In just a moment, we'll come forward with our final segment,
Speaker 1: and of course from Reverend doctor Ted Williams, a word
Speaker 1: of hope more when we come forward. On KBLA Talk
Speaker 1: fifteen eighty Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show,
Speaker 1: and this is our final segment that that meet Friday's
Speaker 1: and the j Lunch Club. Gina Town's, our creator, is
Speaker 1: our regular contributor on Fridays as well as our very
Speaker 1: special guest, Doctor Ted Williams, the Third Ted. Gina, Welcome
Speaker 1: forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show.
Speaker 2: For having us.
Speaker 5: It's always good to be here.
Speaker 1: Gina had some insights that she wanted to share during
Speaker 1: the break that I thought she should bring forward now.
Speaker 3: So Ted and for our listeners, I can't wait till
Speaker 3: if you were just listening, I can't wait for you
Speaker 3: to go and download this podcast so that you can
Speaker 3: see Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King's speeches side by side,
Speaker 3: the similar rhetoric and the structures that are used in
Speaker 3: these speeches. But you know, part of what I was
Speaker 3: trying to get to was what Jesse talked about before
Speaker 3: we went to break, and that is from eighteen sixty
Speaker 3: three to nineteen sixty three, we see Abraham Lincoln where
Speaker 3: he was in that portion of our history, and then
Speaker 3: you see King come forward in another error in human history.
Speaker 3: And so you know, we're heading toward another space in
Speaker 3: our own human history where we see some of the
Speaker 3: same struggles that pop up. But one thing I have
Speaker 3: to say about this is the whole idea of the
Speaker 3: amendment process is what Jesse was discussing that when we
Speaker 3: got to the nineteen sixties, we enacted acts versus those amendments.
Speaker 3: Whereas Lincoln was as sure as sure it could be
Speaker 3: that the Thirteenth Amendment had to be passed, he knew
Speaker 3: that if he just did the Emancipation Proclamation, which is
Speaker 3: an act that should he perish, that they could do
Speaker 3: away with the Act. And that's what we see unfolding here.
Speaker 3: We see the unraveling of the Voting Rights Act and
Speaker 3: the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and sixty five.
Speaker 3: And so that we have to rest assured that the
Speaker 3: generations that we are teaching and pushing forward, they have
Speaker 3: to go and read this history. They have to read
Speaker 3: the Emancipation Proclamation, the Amendments thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen. They
Speaker 3: have to go read the Voting Rights Act and understand
Speaker 3: why we can't just pass an act alone because it
Speaker 3: is more easily undone. What it takes to pass a
Speaker 3: constitutional amendment for human rights for everyone, state by state
Speaker 3: is an arduous task, but that's the work.
Speaker 1: That is before.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I think that just to add a little clarity to
Speaker 1: what Genus saying or is saying, the Emancipation Proclamation is
Speaker 1: probably more akin to a executive order. It's not an
Speaker 1: Act of Congress. So by the time you advance the thirteenth,
Speaker 1: fourteenth and fifteenth Amendment, you know, it is ninety five
Speaker 1: years from Fifteenth Amendment to the Voting Rights Act of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five. Ninety five years to get Congress to
Speaker 1: act and actually make it real and dwell amongst the people.
Speaker 1: Even with the Fourteenth Amendment, you end up with a
Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment interpretation in eighteen ninety six which basically instructs
Speaker 1: Congress that their interpretation of the equal protection clause is
Speaker 1: separate but equal, and of course, a new interpretation in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four Brown versus the Board of Education overturns
Speaker 1: the Plessy decision because separate but equal is inherently unequal.
Speaker 1: A new interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment that is largely
Speaker 1: responsible relaying the foundation for the Civil Rights Act, which
Speaker 1: led to the implementation by Congress of other acts, including
Speaker 1: Americans with disability, including the right to marry, including overcoming
Speaker 1: that loving case in Virginia, Mary, who you want to marry?
Speaker 1: Challenges to the Man Act. That's what locked up the
Speaker 1: heavyweight champion of the world at the turn of the
Speaker 1: century because he did not have those basic protections. So
Speaker 1: it seems to me that the pattern is once we
Speaker 1: have a constitutional amendment, we have a civil rights movement
Speaker 1: that can commence immediately, or it can take ninety five
Speaker 1: years to get to a civil rights movement. If you
Speaker 1: guarantee every American the right to a public education of
Speaker 1: equal eye quality. What's up next? The civil rights movement
Speaker 1: to reduce all class sizes across this country to less
Speaker 1: than fifteen students or individualized instruction. What's up next?
Speaker 4: The Equal Facilities Act where if they have a swimming
Speaker 4: pool over there, everybody gets to train for the Olympics
Speaker 4: in all public schools everywhere in the country. Because that's
Speaker 4: an Equal Facilities Act, a civil rights act. So if
Speaker 4: you amend the Constitution guaranteeing all Americans the right to
Speaker 4: healthcare of equal eye quality.
Speaker 1: It means that the number one, the trauma units aren't
Speaker 1: on one side of town while there are no trauma
Speaker 1: units on this side of town. And it gives people
Speaker 1: the legal right and the government the structure by which
Speaker 1: a civil rights can be passed. Where we find health deserts,
Speaker 1: hospitals can then be constructed at the will of the people.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much the structure of the system that we
Speaker 1: live in now. It's difficult, as that sounds, two thirds
Speaker 1: of the Congress, three quarters of the states to actually
Speaker 1: get a new human right added to the Constitution. Imagine
Speaker 1: if we did not have a system in place the
Speaker 1: founding Ted of the country itself to even amend our
Speaker 1: way out of our problems. If there were no United
Speaker 1: States government, there would be no legal process for even
Speaker 1: ending slavery. Some states by now might have gone on
Speaker 1: ahead and set up their own country. But because they
Speaker 1: agreed to union, and yes, we did fight a civil war,
Speaker 1: there is a way out. And I can't think of
Speaker 1: with all of America's problems, Ted a greater experiment than
Speaker 1: the one that we are living in. Said, we have
Speaker 1: about two minutes before the end of the show, you
Speaker 1: might want to summarize everything for us and even offering
Speaker 1: that context a word of hope.
Speaker 2: Sure, thank you, and I appreciate Gena your connection with
Speaker 2: the history, this arc. This is desire for years and years,
Speaker 2: generations and generations to get to this notion of equality.
Speaker 2: You know, brother Jesse, as you were talking, I was
Speaker 2: just thinking about this process, this constitutional limit process. We've
Speaker 2: only really done it really sixteen times outside of the
Speaker 2: Bill Rights, and the last time was in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 2: the twenty sixth Amendment. And I think about here we
Speaker 2: are in twenty twenty six looking at though we have
Speaker 2: a process to make this happen. Why is it so
Speaker 2: difficult to have changed. That's the real question that we
Speaker 2: wants to ask ourselves today and what do we need
Speaker 2: to be doing? And I think to your point, it
Speaker 2: is not a state by state question. It is not
Speaker 2: an individual question as many people like to simplify and
Speaker 2: make these issues. It is really a guarantee of rights
Speaker 2: from the federal perspective, so that we can go forward
Speaker 2: and have guarantees not just proclamations, but guarantees in public
Speaker 2: policy that will last a beyond a particular administration or generation.
Speaker 2: And that is the real question that we must be
Speaker 2: speaking to. And I pray in our lifetime going forward
Speaker 2: that we will see more amendments to this Constitution. I
Speaker 2: wish we could not have to go issue by issue
Speaker 2: so that we could get these basic guarantees of human rights.
Speaker 2: I wish we could do it in a larger way,
Speaker 2: But it looks like his history is shown as we
Speaker 2: may have to do that.