WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 2 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:05.679 Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and welcome the 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.960 Fat Meets Fridays and the Jay Lunch Club are very Special. 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.480 Myst known as by regular contributor Gina Towns is Doctor 5 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:16.600 Ted william the Third and Indicator, actor, author who teaches 6 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:21.679 political science at the City Colleges of Chicago. He's a 7 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.839 graduate of the University of Chicago, Rutgers University, and Northern Seminary. 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:31.760 His acting credits include NBC's Chicago pd Showtimes, The Shy, 9 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:37.200 various films, plays, and commercials for companies including Empire Carpet, Cheerios, 10 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:42.280 and Subway. Williams is the former host of WYCC PBS Televisions, 11 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.399 The Professors, author of the book The Way Out Christianity, 12 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.679 Politics and the Future of the African American Community, and 13 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.200 creative the musical theater production sixteen nineteen, The Journey of 14 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:58.439 a People for the Chicago City Council. He currently serves 15 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.200 on the Illinois Reparations Commission. He and his wife, Roslyn, 16 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:07.640 have three children. Doctor Ted Williams Welcome forward on Fat 17 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.280 Meat Fridays to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show and with 18 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:20.120 our creator Gina Towns. Hi, Ted, I think Ted's having 19 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:21.760 has to be unmuted. 20 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:23.319 I'm so sorry. 21 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:25.079 It is so good to be with you guys again 22 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:25.400 for that. 23 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.599 I apologize trying to stay together here, but it's going 24 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:33.799 to see all again this week and that happy LKA 25 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.560 week slash month slash here. 26 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.680 Ted, thank you so much for contributing with us most 27 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:47.599 responably Monday Welcome, where we were invited as the keydom 28 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:54.000 speaker of their annual Martin King Junior Commemorative event. More 29 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:58.719 than six hundred and fifty people were present, and at 30 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:03.640 the conclusion of the program, Doctor Williams joined me here 31 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.640 live on Jesse Jackson Junior Show. We went upstairs, found 32 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:11.919 us good Wi Fi and we call into the show 33 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.879 Doctor Williams. Before we get to a number of contemporary 34 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:18.240 issues that are confronting the country in this first segment, 35 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:22.319 share with us your thoughts about the legacy of Martin 36 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:28.800 Luther King Junior. January fifteenth, twenty six. 37 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:35.960 Doctor King is probably the most significant American with respect 38 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:40.520 to the issue of freedom and equality and justice for 39 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.680 all people. Without doctor King, the promises of America are 40 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.319 really not true. For all people. We hold these truths 41 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.240 to be self evident, that all men are created equal 42 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.120 in are endowed by their creators with certain an able rights, 43 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.199 among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If 44 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.800 doctor King does not live and does not do the 45 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:04.759 work he does, along with myriad other significant civil rights leaders, 46 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:10.319 including your father, we recognize that America is not America, 47 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:14.319 as Langston Hughes so eloquently said, and so doctor King 48 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:18.080 and the civil rights struggle the country. I'd be thanking 49 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.199 us and the leaders of this and doctor King and 50 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.000 people that worked with him for that, because it has 51 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.800 truly made America live up to what it's said on paper. 52 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:33.759 And I can tell you that immigrants who come from 53 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:38.360 across the world see what happened for our people in 54 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.840 the sixties and the fifties, and they have hope for America. 55 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:43.599 And without that, I will tell you it'd be a 56 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:47.000 much different place. And if we cannot extend this promise 57 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.400 to all people, then the country has no real future. 58 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.159 And you know, Ted, you know, and I think and 59 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:55.240 I didn't mean to cut you off, that was an 60 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:57.159 next and I promise you, but when I think about 61 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:02.439 you know, with hygends. We rely upon the legacy of 62 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:06.759 Martin Luther King Junior in just about every single protest 63 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.280 within the context of our democracy even to this day 64 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.479 that had, me to your point, not existed, and we 65 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.040 think about the leaders that did exist during the period, Malcolm, 66 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:24.399 to stoke the to other community students who were rising up. 67 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.920 Their frame of reference for us in twenty twenty six 68 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:31.439 would not be the same frame of reference if King 69 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.959 simply had never existed. To your point, his contribution just 70 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:37.199 that extraordinary. 71 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.240 Absolutely, my brother. You know, right before I came on 72 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.600 with you all, I was watching a documentary on Colin 73 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.959 Kaepernick and the story of his protests just now ten 74 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:52.800 years ago. He first took that knee in at twenty 75 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:57.839 sixteen football season, and to watch the reaction to his 76 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:02.079 efforts and other NFL players f first to bring light 77 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:05.720 to the issue of social justice and police brutality, it 78 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:09.759 reminds me of what doctor King lived for, what he 79 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:12.759 fought for, and what he ultimately died for. And I 80 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.959 think the greatest thing that we can do in recognizing 81 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:18.839 his legacy, my brother, and I know you know this 82 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.240 very well, is to live it today. We still have 83 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:24.680 such a long way to go when we have people who, 84 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:28.319 as I watched this brother get treated as if he 85 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.279 was not an American citizen. And to see the history 86 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:36.399 of sports protests, mak mul Abdul Rauf in the NBA 87 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.240 who lost his job and his home for protests, and 88 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:44.439 Muhammad Ali and the way that they treated him, it 89 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.199 just just illuminates the need for each one of us 90 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.800 to continue fighting because we still have such a long 91 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:53.000 way to go, Gina. 92 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:54.360 We have about a minute before we come forward. 93 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.439 When we come forward, certainly I want to take a 94 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:02.720 deeper dive into what made doctor tick because like us, 95 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.519 you know, we're studying what he said, how he said it, 96 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:07.759 why he said it, and the time in which he 97 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.600 said it. But he studied some people too, and he 98 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:14.319 came to some conclusions that he was able to share 99 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:17.079 with us. And you know, in that way, history was 100 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:18.920 always flying. It's kind of like when he said in 101 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:20.439 the speech, you know, I wish that I could have 102 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:22.959 lived here. That would have been great in this time period, 103 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.240 and I could have lived here, But I am happy 104 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.360 that I'm right here in this period. And so as 105 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.920 we reach back for him, I have some things that 106 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.040 I wanted to take some comparisons on and we'll come 107 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.480 forward and we will get right back to doctor King. 108 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.240 I'm Jesse Jackson Junior Moore on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. 109 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.680 In just a moment, Hey, you're listening to the Jesse 110 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:43.720 Jackson Junior Show. If you're on the Golden State, the 111 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.839 Santa Anna, the Santa Monica, the San Bernardino, the San Diego, 112 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.800 the Harbor of the Century, What Hill, as well as 113 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:53.800 the Satin Grave, Gabriel River and Long Beach Freeway. Right 114 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:56.879 here on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. This is fat Meet 115 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.480 Fridays with Gina Towns and our very special guest, doctor 116 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:08.079 Ted Williams, the Third Gina. When we here, We are here, Ted, 117 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.240 we are here, my brother. It is the end of 118 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:11.399 the week and. 119 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:13.759 A day. 120 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:15.240 Uh. Ed. 121 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.639 Gina wanted to go, I think a little bit deeper 122 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:26.399 into some of the ideas and the motivating. Just before 123 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:28.959 the break, she said she wanted to know what made 124 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:29.800 doctor King tick. 125 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.360 Yeah, so I think a lot about to influence him. 126 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:41.800 We understand that no one and then all of us 127 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:44.680 come from somewhere, that we are all influenced by various people. 128 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.040 And I'm, you know, being a student of doctor King, 129 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.240 and so many of us are. I think about Henry 130 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.439 David Throw, and I think about his eighteen fourty eight 131 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:56.519 essay on the duty of civil disobedience, and I think 132 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:58.079 about how. 133 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:00.959 About his. 134 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:08.120 Actions to refuse paying taxes and to be jailed rather 135 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.759 than support a war that would expand slavery into Mexico. 136 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:17.639 And doctor King being as a college student so inspired 137 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:22.240 by seeing the idea that you could take whatever you 138 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.279 were engaged in, rather than using the weapons of war, 139 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.399 use the weapons of peace and resistance and make statements. 140 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.039 And I will flip that back around to what I 141 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.000 was saying before the break. I am so inspired when 142 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.919 I see those things, that tradition of civil disobedience continuing, 143 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.480 Thinking about some of the protests that have happened in 144 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.720 the NFL and the NBA and other places like that, 145 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.600 it inspires me because it shows us that, as doctor 146 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:52.879 King took Throw's words and his life and his experience 147 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.360 and his example, we today in twenty twenty six can 148 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.240 take doctor King's experience life an example and apply that 149 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.480 in every place or in space that we find ourselves 150 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.000 in academia, in the sports world, and the media, and 151 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:13.360 resist through civil disobedience issues that we find morally reprehensible, 152 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:21.240 police brutality, inequality, blatant racism, the takeover the American imperialism 153 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.600 and takeover foreign governments. And I think that the in 154 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.919 closing on this, the way that we really live out 155 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.799 Doctor King's legacy is that we find places in spaces 156 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.240 today to enact our own forms of civil disobedience. 157 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:38.279 Gina, your thoughts on what made doctor King tick? 158 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:42.159 Well, certainly I have a couple of slides that that 159 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:45.639 I want to put up for those who can see, 160 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.360 but we'll certainly have a discussion around them. When King 161 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:53.919 came to the march on Washington, I think he really 162 00:09:54.200 --> 00:10:02.000 had contemplated the presidency and the evolution of of Abraham Lincoln, 163 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:06.200 and he came to cash a check, if you will, 164 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.720 on the promise that America had delivered. And so when 165 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.240 you think about he says, in a sense, we've come 166 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.200 to our nation's capital to cash a check with the 167 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.679 architects of our republic. It wrote these magnificent words of 168 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:23.120 the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They were signing 169 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:29.080 a promissory note to which every American was to fall air. 170 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:33.440 And sometimes we forget, you know, when people say in 171 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.440 our community in particularly, well, it wasn't written for us. Well, 172 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:40.759 there was an amendment that was added. In fact, there 173 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:45.080 were three amendments that were added as a result of 174 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:50.039 the evolution and the resolve that President Lincoln had. And 175 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:52.159 so that's what we have to hold on. That's the 176 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.480 check that he went to cash to remind us as 177 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.159 the people that we are part of this, and so 178 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:05.080 here channeling all throughout the month of January what happened 179 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.799 on this day in African American history, because it's not 180 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.600 just a month for us in February, it is people 181 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.840 who have ascended in January twentieth. We looked at the 182 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.399 importance of that date earlier in the week ted that 183 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:25.399 is the Barack Obama is inaugurated as president, Kamala Harris 184 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.080 is inaugurated as the vice president, and certainly there are 185 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.000 a lot of other things. But as we go through 186 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.519 all these the contribution of black people and the progress 187 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.039 here we have Daniel Hall Williams here at Provident Hospital 188 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.799 in Chicago eighteen ninety three, and then Susan Rice in 189 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.080 two thousand and nine. And that was the reason I 190 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:47.720 said earlier that it seems like about every sixty or 191 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:50.960 one hundred years, we have to revisit our freedom. We 192 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:55.480 have to remind ourselves in two generations, three generations later 193 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.879 that you know, perhaps this is not the end of 194 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.200 our struggle, but we have ancestors that we can reach 195 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:02.679 back to. 196 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:05.960 You know, when I think about in this moment, Doctor King, 197 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:11.600 Gina and Ted, I envision a man in a very 198 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.480 very crowded space, and he lifts up his arms with 199 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:21.840 very pointed elbows, and very gingerly he begins swinging to 200 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:27.519 create some space for himself, some space. While the analogy 201 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:31.360 itself is imperfect, what Doctor King has done in our 202 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:37.600 consciousness is he has created a space for action for us, 203 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:43.120 a space that did not exist, a train of thinking 204 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:47.919 linearly that allows us to fight in every generation in 205 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.080 a spirit of love, in a spirit of nonviolence, a 206 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:57.639 way of overcoming whatever the particular evils are. And he 207 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:03.240 referred to himself as man adjusted. He didn't see himself 208 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.039 in any other negative term, but maladjusted. There are people 209 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.480 who had adjusted to the status quo. They had gotten 210 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:12.480 used to it, they had gotten silent. They were comfortable 211 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:14.200 with the way things were. They didn't want to be 212 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.960 an agitator. They didn't want to be a fly in 213 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:22.320 the middle of someone's milk. But Doctor King expanded that 214 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:27.320 space for us. So we know how to react to 215 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:32.279 George Floyd, We know how to react to the kidnapping 216 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:36.120 of Maduro. We know and we have liberty in the 217 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:40.879 space to condemn what took place to Renee Good in Minneapolis. 218 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:46.120 That that space that we function in isn't reactionary. That 219 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.600 like the young man who took his rifle to Minnesota 220 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.000 determining that he was going to defend property at a 221 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:58.639 very young age and was subsequently set free by. 222 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:05.440 The justice system, it seems to me that the space 223 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.399 that we operate in is a space that matters to 224 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.440 my sense of morality, my sense of Christianity. 225 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.120 It is a space that matters to Buddhism. It is 226 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.000 a space that matters to Judaism. It is a space 227 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:24.360 that matters to Islam. It is a space that we 228 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.039 did not have access to until Doctor King raised his 229 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.639 elbows and said, listen, we don't have to be conformist. 230 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.120 We can fight, we can fight the power. But this 231 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.360 is how we're going to fight the power, and we're 232 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.120 going to do it with our heads high and with 233 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.240 a level of profound dignity, Doctor Williams. 234 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.039 Yes, I really, you know, as you're talking about your 235 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:54.440 friend Kyle Rittenhouse thinking about that, because I'll tell you 236 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.159 guys this I was in. Actually, here's a funny story. 237 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.240 After we spend our time together on Monday and we 238 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:05.120 did a radio show after your keynote, I stayed in 239 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.240 the area for a little while and went to a 240 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:08.799 mall and. 241 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:09.559 Connected in. 242 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.919 The suburban northern suburban Chicago, And was walking through the 243 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:19.399 mall and saw a store where in the front of 244 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:21.799 the window of the store were t shirts that said, 245 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.200 you know, God is good and Heaven is great and 246 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.559 you should live in principles of Godliness and things like that. 247 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:33.080 And then I saw behind that a huge wall sized 248 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:37.399 American flag. I saw a display of guns and AMMO, 249 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.960 and I saw a display with Charlie Kirk quotes. And 250 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:49.399 it made me think about how this conflation of white nationalism, 251 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:56.759 this American patriotism identity with theology and the violence that 252 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.879 is so represented by the Second Amendment is really what 253 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.559 doctor King was fighting against in the nineteen fifties and sixties, 254 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.200 and that strand still exists today. As we were talking 255 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.039 about the significant dates from January. The one date I 256 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.200 thought about that we did not talk about potentially was 257 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:19.039 January sixth, which might be as significant in this conversation 258 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.879 about our rights because of what we still are fighting 259 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.000 against and how we have to be vigilant in this 260 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.519 space and in this way, and so in so many 261 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.919 ways as you talk about, doctor King carved out the 262 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.039 space for himself, and he made sure that the country 263 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:37.159 understood where we needed to go after you know, maybe 264 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:38.759 we'll come back around to this. I've got a few 265 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:40.960 thoughts about the eye have a dream speech directly, and 266 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.039 some quotes that I wanted to pull, But I think 267 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:48.080 that for me, it reminded me that we cannot rest. 268 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:51.600 It reminded me that we must stay vigilant. It reminded 269 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.759 me of the things that you were talking about and 270 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:55.879 how the work still needs to be done because we 271 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.799 still have a world in which militarism material is and 272 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.080 racism reign very heavily. 273 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.400 Gene, I thought you're slide with Daniel Hall Williams, the 274 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.000 first African American to perform, or at first American maybe 275 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.480 the first person in the world to perform to perform 276 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.960 open heart surgery right here at Provident Hospital here in 277 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.200 the city of Chicago. And then in that intervening space 278 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.519 is Martin Luther King Junior, of course, and then of 279 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:30.240 course Susan Rice and the opportunities that she and Colin 280 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:35.519 Powell and Condoli sa Rice and Eric Holder and obviously 281 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:40.599 Barack Obama. The space that they could operate in would never, 282 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.559 would forever never be seen as a space that wasn't 283 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:50.480 appealing to all. They weren't just, if you will, leaders 284 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.480 on our side of town, Gina. They were leaders who 285 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:58.599 emerged in their own rights to global significance because of 286 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.960 the roles in which they played and the presidents they 287 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.519 had the opportunity and the people of course to serve. 288 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:11.160 Yeah, you know, that's a great point. And thinking about 289 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:17.079 what Ted was saying, I began to wonder, is this 290 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:24.079 the ongoing fight between good and evil? In our last segment, Meek, 291 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.799 you just said, you know, very plainly, and we've had 292 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.799 lots of guests who have called what is going on 293 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.480 right now evil? And I went back to the I 294 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:36.680 have a dream speech. And for those who cannot see uh, 295 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.480 there is on our screen. If you get a chance 296 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.160 to download the podcast, you will see Lincoln at the 297 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:47.119 Lincoln memorial, sitting in his chair and overlooking the mall, 298 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.839 and doctor King giving his I have a dream speech, 299 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.000 and it's almost prophetic in some ways to see this, 300 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:02.039 and King says that we must forever conduct our struggle 301 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.160 on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must 302 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:10.880 not allow our creative protests to degenerate into physical violence. 303 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:16.839 The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community 304 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.880 must not lead us to distrust all white people. For 305 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.400 many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their present 306 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:28.839 here today, have come to realize that their destiny is 307 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:36.160 tied up with our destiny. We cannot walk alone. That 308 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.400 almost is prophetic in that this is a struggle that 309 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.119 will go on until the end of time. I guess 310 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.000 the struggle has gone on since the beginning of time, 311 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:51.920 that struggle for a higher plane of dignity and discipline. 312 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.480 And I would agree with you on that, Gina, that 313 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.680 that battle we must continue to fight. The one that 314 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.799 I I think exhausted in fighting is I think many 315 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.400 of us are, is the one that deals specifically with 316 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:13.200 the dynamics within this American context, the created and constructed 317 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.720 identity of race. Right that did not exist even four 318 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.680 or five hundred years ago. In the same way the 319 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.839 understanding in a capitalist system, this hierarchical look at how 320 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.519 some ought to be at the top, and it is 321 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:31.960 okay to have the masses at the bottom struggling to 322 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.279 find housing and struggling to have healthcare while we have 323 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.880 billionaires who millionaires who get tax brace consistently. I'm okay 324 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.440 with the struggle. Theologically, as the three of us understand 325 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:47.319 very well of good and evil. What I am exhausted 326 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.039 from is the struggle of race, class, and inequality and 327 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.720 how that manifests itself. And I think that, you know, 328 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.319 as I recognize as even theologically, the Bible teaches us 329 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:01.279 that the poorlow always be with us, and so we 330 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.279 know we'll never live in utopia. I'm just at the 331 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:06.359 place in America. I'm like, man, can we get a 332 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.319 little less poverty, Can we get a little less racism? 333 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.759 Can we get a little less violence in the country. 334 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:12.960 That's where I want to get to. 335 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.839 You know, I'm thinking in this moment that America as 336 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.440 conceived and the wealth that we have been able to 337 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.799 generate since the inception of the Republic, I'm not so 338 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.359 sure that that admonition in the Bible that the poor 339 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.319 will be with us always is a reality. It is 340 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:33.039 something that we choose to allow to happen because of 341 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:35.640 our lack of concern for neighbor. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. 342 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.759 More on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. When we come forward, 343 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.119 I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 344 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:45.920 Junior Show on LA Talk fifteen eighty. We're closing out 345 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:52.119 our King celebration and commemoration and reflection. We do have 346 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:52.880 some final thoughts. 347 00:21:52.920 --> 00:22:08.039 Gina Hi, Jeff heighted Hey, thirteen Amendments. What I thought 348 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:10.880 when I was doing a little bit of research on this, 349 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.160 it was very interesting to see that passage of the 350 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.359 thirteenth Amendment part in the opera. If you're watching, if 351 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.680 you're listening, it's this January eighteen sixty five. Lincoln makes 352 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.200 a deliberate plan to ensure passage of the thirteenth Amendment 353 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.720 a king cure for all the evils. Lincoln viewed the 354 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:38.880 Thirteenth Amendment as God's cure for America's sin with slavery, 355 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.319 and then he says, I leave it to you to 356 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.119 determine how it shall be done. But remember that I'm 357 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.599 the president, clothed with immense power, and I expect you 358 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.039 to procure these votes. He felt really strongly about it, 359 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.119 in a prophetic kind of way. Not that he himself 360 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:01.720 was entrenched in any word of spirituality. We don't find 361 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.200 that about him, but certainly he feels that way about 362 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.400 the ill of slavery, the mistreatment of people. And I 363 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:12.559 find that King is pulling from him, and you know 364 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.680 hence he gives his very last speech at the feet 365 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:22.559 of King in Washington, at the at his statue. 366 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:29.519 I would also add to this about Lincoln, which I 367 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:33.599 find to be partially problematic, is that the idea of 368 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.799 the devil's in the details. So when Lincoln says, hey, 369 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.400 I will leave this, you determine how it shall be done. 370 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:46.960 That is more than an ancillary comment. What Lincoln does 371 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.480 by passing the thirteenth Amendment is still leave in this 372 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:56.720 clause that has unfortunately terrorized the African American community since 373 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:01.000 the thirteenth min was passed. Saying that slavery shall not 374 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:05.039 exist except as a punishment for a crime. 375 00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:05.720 This was not. 376 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.240 An unimportant phrase, and we have seen post the past 377 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.920 of the Thirteenth Amendment We've seen countless institutional efforts, generational 378 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.319 efforts to use mass incarceration as a new form of slavery, 379 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.240 as a new form of discrimination, as a new form 380 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.920 of isolation, And to this day, in twenty twenty six, 381 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.559 still are wrestling with these questions. When African American males 382 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.000 make up about six percent of the population but make 383 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.039 up about sixty percent of the people who are incarcerated 384 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:43.480 in this country, we recognize very clearly that this was 385 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:48.279 beyond imperfect in this way, and America, we have got 386 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:53.440 to do the We've got to have these conversations because 387 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.039 we are still in many ways suffering, and I think 388 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:00.839 that we Yeah, I just think it's that we do that. 389 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.559 As I look at the legacy of Lincoln. When I 390 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.279 was younger, I used to look at him as a 391 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.240 true hero. I still think that he is heroic in 392 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.799 what he accomplished for us, But I also recognize the 393 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.200 severe limitations that we're wrestling with still today. 394 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.039 And that's why I believe King says that the struggle 395 00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.960 is our struggle, our forever struggle must be non violent, 396 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:29.799 and so it is a perpetual struggle good versus evil 397 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:37.759 for the oppressor and the oppressed to fight and non violently. 398 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:42.359 In this case, I see to both of your point. 399 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:50.599 See that in the era of Lincoln, those Americans would 400 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.400 have been deeply troubled those who are on the abolitionist 401 00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:00.599