1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,679 Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty and welcome the 3 00:00:05,759 --> 00:00:08,960 Fat Meets Fridays and the Jay Lunch Club are very Special. 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,480 Myst known as by regular contributor Gina Towns is Doctor 5 00:00:12,519 --> 00:00:16,600 Ted william the Third and Indicator, actor, author who teaches 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,679 political science at the City Colleges of Chicago. He's a 7 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:25,839 graduate of the University of Chicago, Rutgers University, and Northern Seminary. 8 00:00:26,359 --> 00:00:31,760 His acting credits include NBC's Chicago pd Showtimes, The Shy, 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,200 various films, plays, and commercials for companies including Empire Carpet, Cheerios, 10 00:00:37,399 --> 00:00:42,280 and Subway. Williams is the former host of WYCC PBS Televisions, 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,399 The Professors, author of the book The Way Out Christianity, 12 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:50,679 Politics and the Future of the African American Community, and 13 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:55,200 creative the musical theater production sixteen nineteen, The Journey of 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,439 a People for the Chicago City Council. He currently serves 15 00:00:58,679 --> 00:01:02,200 on the Illinois Reparations Commission. He and his wife, Roslyn, 16 00:01:02,479 --> 00:01:07,640 have three children. Doctor Ted Williams Welcome forward on Fat 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,280 Meat Fridays to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show and with 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:20,120 our creator Gina Towns. Hi, Ted, I think Ted's having 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:21,760 has to be unmuted. 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,079 Speaker 1: It is so good to be with you guys again 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:25,400 for that. 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,599 Speaker 2: I apologize trying to stay together here, but it's going 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,799 to see all again this week and that happy LKA 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,560 week slash month slash here. 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: Ted, thank you so much for contributing with us most 27 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:47,599 responably Monday Welcome, where we were invited as the keydom 28 00:01:47,719 --> 00:01:54,000 speaker of their annual Martin King Junior Commemorative event. More 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,719 than six hundred and fifty people were present, and at 30 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,640 the conclusion of the program, Doctor Williams joined me here 31 00:02:03,959 --> 00:02:07,640 live on Jesse Jackson Junior Show. We went upstairs, found 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,919 us good Wi Fi and we call into the show 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,879 Doctor Williams. Before we get to a number of contemporary 34 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,240 issues that are confronting the country in this first segment, 35 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,319 share with us your thoughts about the legacy of Martin 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:28,800 Luther King Junior. January fifteenth, twenty six. 37 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: Doctor King is probably the most significant American with respect 38 00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:40,520 to the issue of freedom and equality and justice for 39 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:44,680 all people. Without doctor King, the promises of America are 40 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,319 really not true. For all people. We hold these truths 41 00:02:48,319 --> 00:02:51,240 to be self evident, that all men are created equal 42 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,120 in are endowed by their creators with certain an able rights, 43 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,199 among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If 44 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,800 doctor King does not live and does not do the 45 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,759 work he does, along with myriad other significant civil rights leaders, 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:10,319 including your father, we recognize that America is not America, 47 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,319 as Langston Hughes so eloquently said, and so doctor King 48 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,080 and the civil rights struggle the country. I'd be thanking 49 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,199 us and the leaders of this and doctor King and 50 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,000 people that worked with him for that, because it has 51 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:30,800 truly made America live up to what it's said on paper. 52 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,759 And I can tell you that immigrants who come from 53 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,360 across the world see what happened for our people in 54 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:41,840 the sixties and the fifties, and they have hope for America. 55 00:03:41,919 --> 00:03:43,599 And without that, I will tell you it'd be a 56 00:03:43,639 --> 00:03:47,000 much different place. And if we cannot extend this promise 57 00:03:47,039 --> 00:03:50,400 to all people, then the country has no real future. 58 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,159 Speaker 1: And you know, Ted, you know, and I think and 59 00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:55,240 I didn't mean to cut you off, that was an 60 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,159 next and I promise you, but when I think about 61 00:03:57,319 --> 00:04:02,439 you know, with hygends. We rely upon the legacy of 62 00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:06,759 Martin Luther King Junior in just about every single protest 63 00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:10,280 within the context of our democracy even to this day 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,479 that had, me to your point, not existed, and we 65 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,040 think about the leaders that did exist during the period, Malcolm, 66 00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:24,399 to stoke the to other community students who were rising up. 67 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,920 Their frame of reference for us in twenty twenty six 68 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,439 would not be the same frame of reference if King 69 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,959 simply had never existed. To your point, his contribution just 70 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,199 that extraordinary. 71 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, my brother. You know, right before I came on 72 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,600 with you all, I was watching a documentary on Colin 73 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,959 Kaepernick and the story of his protests just now ten 74 00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:52,800 years ago. He first took that knee in at twenty 75 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,839 sixteen football season, and to watch the reaction to his 76 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,079 efforts and other NFL players f first to bring light 77 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,720 to the issue of social justice and police brutality, it 78 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:09,759 reminds me of what doctor King lived for, what he 79 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,759 fought for, and what he ultimately died for. And I 80 00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:15,959 think the greatest thing that we can do in recognizing 81 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,839 his legacy, my brother, and I know you know this 82 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,240 very well, is to live it today. We still have 83 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,680 such a long way to go when we have people who, 84 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:28,319 as I watched this brother get treated as if he 85 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:31,279 was not an American citizen. And to see the history 86 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:36,399 of sports protests, mak mul Abdul Rauf in the NBA 87 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,240 who lost his job and his home for protests, and 88 00:05:40,319 --> 00:05:44,439 Muhammad Ali and the way that they treated him, it 89 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,199 just just illuminates the need for each one of us 90 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,800 to continue fighting because we still have such a long 91 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,000 way to go, Gina. 92 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: We have about a minute before we come forward. 93 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,439 Speaker 3: When we come forward, certainly I want to take a 94 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,720 deeper dive into what made doctor tick because like us, 95 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,519 you know, we're studying what he said, how he said it, 96 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,759 why he said it, and the time in which he 97 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,600 said it. But he studied some people too, and he 98 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,319 came to some conclusions that he was able to share 99 00:06:14,399 --> 00:06:17,079 with us. And you know, in that way, history was 100 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,920 always flying. It's kind of like when he said in 101 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,439 the speech, you know, I wish that I could have 102 00:06:20,519 --> 00:06:22,959 lived here. That would have been great in this time period, 103 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,240 and I could have lived here, But I am happy 104 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,360 that I'm right here in this period. And so as 105 00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:30,920 we reach back for him, I have some things that 106 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:34,040 I wanted to take some comparisons on and we'll come 107 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,480 forward and we will get right back to doctor King. 108 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior Moore on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. 109 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,680 In just a moment, Hey, you're listening to the Jesse 110 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:43,720 Jackson Junior Show. If you're on the Golden State, the 111 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,839 Santa Anna, the Santa Monica, the San Bernardino, the San Diego, 112 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,800 the Harbor of the Century, What Hill, as well as 113 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,800 the Satin Grave, Gabriel River and Long Beach Freeway. Right 114 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,879 here on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. This is fat Meet 115 00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:59,480 Fridays with Gina Towns and our very special guest, doctor 116 00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:08,079 Ted Williams, the Third Gina. When we here, We are here, Ted, 117 00:07:08,199 --> 00:07:10,240 we are here, my brother. It is the end of 118 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,399 the week and. 119 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:13,759 Speaker 4: A day. 120 00:07:14,399 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 2: Uh. Ed. 121 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,639 Speaker 1: Gina wanted to go, I think a little bit deeper 122 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:26,399 into some of the ideas and the motivating. Just before 123 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:28,959 the break, she said she wanted to know what made 124 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:29,800 doctor King tick. 125 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think a lot about to influence him. 126 00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:41,800 We understand that no one and then all of us 127 00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:44,680 come from somewhere, that we are all influenced by various people. 128 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,040 And I'm, you know, being a student of doctor King, 129 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,240 and so many of us are. I think about Henry 130 00:07:49,319 --> 00:07:52,439 David Throw, and I think about his eighteen fourty eight 131 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:56,519 essay on the duty of civil disobedience, and I think 132 00:07:56,519 --> 00:07:58,079 about how. 133 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:00,959 Speaker 1: About his. 134 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: Actions to refuse paying taxes and to be jailed rather 135 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,759 than support a war that would expand slavery into Mexico. 136 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,639 And doctor King being as a college student so inspired 137 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,240 by seeing the idea that you could take whatever you 138 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:26,279 were engaged in, rather than using the weapons of war, 139 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,399 use the weapons of peace and resistance and make statements. 140 00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:33,039 And I will flip that back around to what I 141 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,000 was saying before the break. I am so inspired when 142 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,919 I see those things, that tradition of civil disobedience continuing, 143 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,480 Thinking about some of the protests that have happened in 144 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,720 the NFL and the NBA and other places like that, 145 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,600 it inspires me because it shows us that, as doctor 146 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,879 King took Throw's words and his life and his experience 147 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:56,360 and his example, we today in twenty twenty six can 148 00:08:56,399 --> 00:09:00,240 take doctor King's experience life an example and apply that 149 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,480 in every place or in space that we find ourselves 150 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:07,000 in academia, in the sports world, and the media, and 151 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:13,360 resist through civil disobedience issues that we find morally reprehensible, 152 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:21,240 police brutality, inequality, blatant racism, the takeover the American imperialism 153 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,600 and takeover foreign governments. And I think that the in 154 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,919 closing on this, the way that we really live out 155 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,799 Doctor King's legacy is that we find places in spaces 156 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,240 today to enact our own forms of civil disobedience. 157 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,279 Speaker 1: Gina, your thoughts on what made doctor King tick? 158 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,159 Speaker 3: Well, certainly I have a couple of slides that that 159 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,639 I want to put up for those who can see, 160 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,360 but we'll certainly have a discussion around them. When King 161 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,919 came to the march on Washington, I think he really 162 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:02,000 had contemplated the presidency and the evolution of of Abraham Lincoln, 163 00:10:02,639 --> 00:10:06,200 and he came to cash a check, if you will, 164 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,720 on the promise that America had delivered. And so when 165 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:13,240 you think about he says, in a sense, we've come 166 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,200 to our nation's capital to cash a check with the 167 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,679 architects of our republic. It wrote these magnificent words of 168 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,120 the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They were signing 169 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:29,080 a promissory note to which every American was to fall air. 170 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:33,440 And sometimes we forget, you know, when people say in 171 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,440 our community in particularly, well, it wasn't written for us. Well, 172 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,759 there was an amendment that was added. In fact, there 173 00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:45,080 were three amendments that were added as a result of 174 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,039 the evolution and the resolve that President Lincoln had. And 175 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,159 so that's what we have to hold on. That's the 176 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,480 check that he went to cash to remind us as 177 00:10:55,519 --> 00:10:58,159 the people that we are part of this, and so 178 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:05,080 here channeling all throughout the month of January what happened 179 00:11:05,159 --> 00:11:07,799 on this day in African American history, because it's not 180 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,600 just a month for us in February, it is people 181 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,840 who have ascended in January twentieth. We looked at the 182 00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:19,399 importance of that date earlier in the week ted that 183 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:25,399 is the Barack Obama is inaugurated as president, Kamala Harris 184 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,080 is inaugurated as the vice president, and certainly there are 185 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:30,000 a lot of other things. But as we go through 186 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,519 all these the contribution of black people and the progress 187 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,039 here we have Daniel Hall Williams here at Provident Hospital 188 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,799 in Chicago eighteen ninety three, and then Susan Rice in 189 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,080 two thousand and nine. And that was the reason I 190 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,720 said earlier that it seems like about every sixty or 191 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:50,960 one hundred years, we have to revisit our freedom. We 192 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,480 have to remind ourselves in two generations, three generations later 193 00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:58,879 that you know, perhaps this is not the end of 194 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:02,200 our struggle, but we have ancestors that we can reach 195 00:12:02,279 --> 00:12:02,679 back to. 196 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: You know, when I think about in this moment, Doctor King, 197 00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:11,600 Gina and Ted, I envision a man in a very 198 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,480 very crowded space, and he lifts up his arms with 199 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:21,840 very pointed elbows, and very gingerly he begins swinging to 200 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,519 create some space for himself, some space. While the analogy 201 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,360 itself is imperfect, what Doctor King has done in our 202 00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:37,600 consciousness is he has created a space for action for us, 203 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,120 a space that did not exist, a train of thinking 204 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,919 linearly that allows us to fight in every generation in 205 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,080 a spirit of love, in a spirit of nonviolence, a 206 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:57,639 way of overcoming whatever the particular evils are. And he 207 00:12:57,759 --> 00:13:03,240 referred to himself as man adjusted. He didn't see himself 208 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:06,039 in any other negative term, but maladjusted. There are people 209 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,480 who had adjusted to the status quo. They had gotten 210 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,480 used to it, they had gotten silent. They were comfortable 211 00:13:12,519 --> 00:13:14,200 with the way things were. They didn't want to be 212 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,960 an agitator. They didn't want to be a fly in 213 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,320 the middle of someone's milk. But Doctor King expanded that 214 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,320 space for us. So we know how to react to 215 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:32,279 George Floyd, We know how to react to the kidnapping 216 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:36,120 of Maduro. We know and we have liberty in the 217 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,879 space to condemn what took place to Renee Good in Minneapolis. 218 00:13:41,159 --> 00:13:46,120 That that space that we function in isn't reactionary. That 219 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,600 like the young man who took his rifle to Minnesota 220 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,000 determining that he was going to defend property at a 221 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:58,639 very young age and was subsequently set free by. 222 00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 5: The justice system, it seems to me that the space 223 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:11,399 that we operate in is a space that matters to 224 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:15,440 my sense of morality, my sense of Christianity. 225 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: It is a space that matters to Buddhism. It is 226 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:21,000 a space that matters to Judaism. It is a space 227 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,360 that matters to Islam. It is a space that we 228 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,039 did not have access to until Doctor King raised his 229 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,639 elbows and said, listen, we don't have to be conformist. 230 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,120 We can fight, we can fight the power. But this 231 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:37,360 is how we're going to fight the power, and we're 232 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:39,120 going to do it with our heads high and with 233 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:43,240 a level of profound dignity, Doctor Williams. 234 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:48,039 Speaker 2: Yes, I really, you know, as you're talking about your 235 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:54,440 friend Kyle Rittenhouse thinking about that, because I'll tell you 236 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,159 guys this I was in. Actually, here's a funny story. 237 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:02,240 After we spend our time together on Monday and we 238 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,120 did a radio show after your keynote, I stayed in 239 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:07,240 the area for a little while and went to a 240 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,799 mall and. 241 00:15:08,759 --> 00:15:09,559 Speaker 1: Connected in. 242 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,919 Speaker 2: The suburban northern suburban Chicago, And was walking through the 243 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,399 mall and saw a store where in the front of 244 00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:21,799 the window of the store were t shirts that said, 245 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,200 you know, God is good and Heaven is great and 246 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,559 you should live in principles of Godliness and things like that. 247 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,080 And then I saw behind that a huge wall sized 248 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,399 American flag. I saw a display of guns and AMMO, 249 00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:42,960 and I saw a display with Charlie Kirk quotes. And 250 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:49,399 it made me think about how this conflation of white nationalism, 251 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:56,759 this American patriotism identity with theology and the violence that 252 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,879 is so represented by the Second Amendment is really what 253 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,559 doctor King was fighting against in the nineteen fifties and sixties, 254 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,200 and that strand still exists today. As we were talking 255 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,039 about the significant dates from January. The one date I 256 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,200 thought about that we did not talk about potentially was 257 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:19,039 January sixth, which might be as significant in this conversation 258 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,879 about our rights because of what we still are fighting 259 00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:25,000 against and how we have to be vigilant in this 260 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,519 space and in this way, and so in so many 261 00:16:28,559 --> 00:16:30,919 ways as you talk about, doctor King carved out the 262 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,039 space for himself, and he made sure that the country 263 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,159 understood where we needed to go after you know, maybe 264 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:38,759 we'll come back around to this. I've got a few 265 00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:40,960 thoughts about the eye have a dream speech directly, and 266 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,039 some quotes that I wanted to pull, But I think 267 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,080 that for me, it reminded me that we cannot rest. 268 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:51,600 It reminded me that we must stay vigilant. It reminded 269 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,759 me of the things that you were talking about and 270 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:55,879 how the work still needs to be done because we 271 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,799 still have a world in which militarism material is and 272 00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:03,080 racism reign very heavily. 273 00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: Gene, I thought you're slide with Daniel Hall Williams, the 274 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,000 first African American to perform, or at first American maybe 275 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,480 the first person in the world to perform to perform 276 00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:16,960 open heart surgery right here at Provident Hospital here in 277 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,200 the city of Chicago. And then in that intervening space 278 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,519 is Martin Luther King Junior, of course, and then of 279 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:30,240 course Susan Rice and the opportunities that she and Colin 280 00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:35,519 Powell and Condoli sa Rice and Eric Holder and obviously 281 00:17:35,599 --> 00:17:40,599 Barack Obama. The space that they could operate in would never, 282 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,559 would forever never be seen as a space that wasn't 283 00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:50,480 appealing to all. They weren't just, if you will, leaders 284 00:17:50,519 --> 00:17:53,480 on our side of town, Gina. They were leaders who 285 00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:58,599 emerged in their own rights to global significance because of 286 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,960 the roles in which they played and the presidents they 287 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,519 had the opportunity and the people of course to serve. 288 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's a great point. And thinking about 289 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:17,079 what Ted was saying, I began to wonder, is this 290 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:24,079 the ongoing fight between good and evil? In our last segment, Meek, 291 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,799 you just said, you know, very plainly, and we've had 292 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:28,799 lots of guests who have called what is going on 293 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,480 right now evil? And I went back to the I 294 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,680 have a dream speech. And for those who cannot see uh, 295 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,480 there is on our screen. If you get a chance 296 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:42,160 to download the podcast, you will see Lincoln at the 297 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,119 Lincoln memorial, sitting in his chair and overlooking the mall, 298 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,839 and doctor King giving his I have a dream speech, 299 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,000 and it's almost prophetic in some ways to see this, 300 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:02,039 and King says that we must forever conduct our struggle 301 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,160 on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must 302 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,880 not allow our creative protests to degenerate into physical violence. 303 00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:16,839 The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community 304 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,880 must not lead us to distrust all white people. For 305 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:24,400 many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their present 306 00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:28,839 here today, have come to realize that their destiny is 307 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:36,160 tied up with our destiny. We cannot walk alone. That 308 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:41,400 almost is prophetic in that this is a struggle that 309 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:44,119 will go on until the end of time. I guess 310 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,000 the struggle has gone on since the beginning of time, 311 00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:51,920 that struggle for a higher plane of dignity and discipline. 312 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: And I would agree with you on that, Gina, that 313 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,680 that battle we must continue to fight. The one that 314 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,799 I I think exhausted in fighting is I think many 315 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,400 of us are, is the one that deals specifically with 316 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:13,200 the dynamics within this American context, the created and constructed 317 00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:16,720 identity of race. Right that did not exist even four 318 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:19,680 or five hundred years ago. In the same way the 319 00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:25,839 understanding in a capitalist system, this hierarchical look at how 320 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,519 some ought to be at the top, and it is 321 00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:31,960 okay to have the masses at the bottom struggling to 322 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,279 find housing and struggling to have healthcare while we have 323 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,880 billionaires who millionaires who get tax brace consistently. I'm okay 324 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,440 with the struggle. Theologically, as the three of us understand 325 00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:47,319 very well of good and evil. What I am exhausted 326 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,039 from is the struggle of race, class, and inequality and 327 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,720 how that manifests itself. And I think that, you know, 328 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:59,319 as I recognize as even theologically, the Bible teaches us 329 00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:01,279 that the poorlow always be with us, and so we 330 00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:04,279 know we'll never live in utopia. I'm just at the 331 00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:06,359 place in America. I'm like, man, can we get a 332 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,319 little less poverty, Can we get a little less racism? 333 00:21:09,599 --> 00:21:11,759 Can we get a little less violence in the country. 334 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,960 That's where I want to get to. 335 00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:15,839 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking in this moment that America as 336 00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:18,440 conceived and the wealth that we have been able to 337 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:21,799 generate since the inception of the Republic, I'm not so 338 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,359 sure that that admonition in the Bible that the poor 339 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,319 will be with us always is a reality. It is 340 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,039 something that we choose to allow to happen because of 341 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,640 our lack of concern for neighbor. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. 342 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,759 More on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. When we come forward, 343 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,119 I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 344 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,920 Junior Show on LA Talk fifteen eighty. We're closing out 345 00:21:46,079 --> 00:21:52,119 our King celebration and commemoration and reflection. We do have 346 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:52,880 some final thoughts. 347 00:21:52,920 --> 00:22:08,039 Speaker 3: Gina Hi, Jeff heighted Hey, thirteen Amendments. What I thought 348 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,880 when I was doing a little bit of research on this, 349 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,160 it was very interesting to see that passage of the 350 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,359 thirteenth Amendment part in the opera. If you're watching, if 351 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,680 you're listening, it's this January eighteen sixty five. Lincoln makes 352 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,200 a deliberate plan to ensure passage of the thirteenth Amendment 353 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,720 a king cure for all the evils. Lincoln viewed the 354 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,880 Thirteenth Amendment as God's cure for America's sin with slavery, 355 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,319 and then he says, I leave it to you to 356 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,119 determine how it shall be done. But remember that I'm 357 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,599 the president, clothed with immense power, and I expect you 358 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,039 to procure these votes. He felt really strongly about it, 359 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,119 in a prophetic kind of way. Not that he himself 360 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,720 was entrenched in any word of spirituality. We don't find 361 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,200 that about him, but certainly he feels that way about 362 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,400 the ill of slavery, the mistreatment of people. And I 363 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,559 find that King is pulling from him, and you know 364 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,680 hence he gives his very last speech at the feet 365 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,559 of King in Washington, at the at his statue. 366 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:29,519 Speaker 2: I would also add to this about Lincoln, which I 367 00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:33,599 find to be partially problematic, is that the idea of 368 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,799 the devil's in the details. So when Lincoln says, hey, 369 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,400 I will leave this, you determine how it shall be done. 370 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,960 That is more than an ancillary comment. What Lincoln does 371 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,480 by passing the thirteenth Amendment is still leave in this 372 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:56,720 clause that has unfortunately terrorized the African American community since 373 00:23:56,759 --> 00:24:01,000 the thirteenth min was passed. Saying that slavery shall not 374 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,039 exist except as a punishment for a crime. 375 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 4: This was not. 376 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: An unimportant phrase, and we have seen post the past 377 00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:17,920 of the Thirteenth Amendment We've seen countless institutional efforts, generational 378 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:23,319 efforts to use mass incarceration as a new form of slavery, 379 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,240 as a new form of discrimination, as a new form 380 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,920 of isolation, And to this day, in twenty twenty six, 381 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,559 still are wrestling with these questions. When African American males 382 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,000 make up about six percent of the population but make 383 00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:39,039 up about sixty percent of the people who are incarcerated 384 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:43,480 in this country, we recognize very clearly that this was 385 00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:48,279 beyond imperfect in this way, and America, we have got 386 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:53,440 to do the We've got to have these conversations because 387 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,039 we are still in many ways suffering, and I think 388 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,839 that we Yeah, I just think it's that we do that. 389 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,559 As I look at the legacy of Lincoln. When I 390 00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,279 was younger, I used to look at him as a 391 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,240 true hero. I still think that he is heroic in 392 00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:15,799 what he accomplished for us, But I also recognize the 393 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,200 severe limitations that we're wrestling with still today. 394 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,039 Speaker 3: And that's why I believe King says that the struggle 395 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,960 is our struggle, our forever struggle must be non violent, 396 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,799 and so it is a perpetual struggle good versus evil 397 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:37,759 for the oppressor and the oppressed to fight and non violently. 398 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: In this case, I see to both of your point. 399 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:50,599 See that in the era of Lincoln, those Americans would 400 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,400 have been deeply troubled those who are on the abolitionist 401 00:25:55,519 --> 00:26:00,599 side of the equation by Old Testament scripture, the Exodus story, 402 00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:07,279 the Moses story as being essentially fatal to the idea 403 00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:11,559 of civilization, and that on the other side of the 404 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:15,720 Moses story is this idea of a promised land, a 405 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,000 new Israel, that the architects of our Republic were at 406 00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:26,480 least trying to get to conceptually and certainly spiritually. I 407 00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,759 say that to say that Lincoln's challenge is a little different. 408 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,039 Unlike any other form of slavery in the history of 409 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:36,480 the world. We are the only people who've had to 410 00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:41,759 amend a constitution to get out of it, requiring the 411 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,480 people themselves to assent to the idea that chattel slavery 412 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:51,079 would be illegal going forward, coming out of the Civil War. 413 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,319 Now does the Thirteenth Amendment ban other forms of slavery, 414 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:02,680 labor or wage slavery, or forms of discrimination that may 415 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,119 present themselves in different form that one might consider to 416 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,839 be as oppressive as some form of slavery and slavery 417 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,359 in the various forms that it has presented itself. After 418 00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:18,160 the channel system itself is destroyed by the thirteenth Amendment, 419 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,200 and so one could argue that we are in some 420 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:25,359 form of healthcare slavery, some form of education slavery, some 421 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:28,960 form of environmental slavery, as long as the system that 422 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,839 we live in remains separate and unequal, and without the 423 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,640 human right to be out of those systems, the legal 424 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,000 right to be out of those systems, we still find 425 00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:43,640 ourselves trapped in the existing systems. Let me close on 426 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,880 this the structure of a constitution under the Bill of Rights, 427 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:51,799 and particularly the Tenth Amendment, which became, of course, that 428 00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:56,359 amendment that the slave holders themselves wrapped their legal theories around. 429 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,440 If the right itself is not in the constant, the 430 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,799 Tenth Amendment says, then it is a right that belongs 431 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:08,599 within the purview of the states. And so, of course 432 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,160 the slaveholders are argued, since the word slavery is not 433 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,920 in the constitution, we have a right to do what 434 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,599 we want down here in Georgia. We got a right 435 00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:18,799 to do what you want over here in Alabama. You 436 00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:20,559 can't tell us down here in Texas what we can 437 00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:26,000 do with our Negroes or Tennessee. But once the Constitution 438 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,759 is amendment, we now have a constitutional right, a human 439 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:33,640 right not to be born into a condition of slavery 440 00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:38,200 or of chattel servitude. So if that's the framework states 441 00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:41,519 rights separate and unequal, and the idea of human right, 442 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:44,119 a human right not to be in slavery, I'm of 443 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,720 the opinion that we need more human rights added to 444 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,200 the Constitution, and they have to be added in the 445 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,319 form of amendments. Because on one side of the thirteenth 446 00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:59,880 Amendment we do know existentially there is a slave system. 447 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,359 What we do know on this side of its addition 448 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,480 to the Constitution, there's a fourteenth fifteenth Amendment, and we're 449 00:29:06,519 --> 00:29:11,880 towards something. I'd like to see us separate health carelessness. 450 00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,680 Let that be the past, give everybody a future that 451 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:20,079 is the right to healthcare. Let the idea that no one, 452 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,599 no citizen has the right to vote, it's controlled by 453 00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:25,200 the states. Let that be the system of the past. 454 00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:28,119 Let's build a super highway from Maine all the way 455 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,279 to California in our democracy where everyone has a fundamental 456 00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:36,039 constitutional right to vote. Let's let any quality for women 457 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:39,960 be the era of the past. Let's advance the Equal 458 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:43,559 Rights Amendment and let the constitution divide the old era, 459 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:47,359 the slave era of how we treated women with respect 460 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:51,160 to their rights by empowering them with the constitutional right 461 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,720 to an equal Rights Amendment. Where everybody's on notice that 462 00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:59,359 if you think you can pay a woman or treat 463 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,079 a woman differently in the system, she now has a 464 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,039 legal right to object, and there are legal, civil and 465 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,400 potentially even criminal consequences for any form of subjugation on 466 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,160 those questions. But the paradigm that's essentially set by Lincoln 467 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,240 is that human rights are forever enshined in the Constitution. 468 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,880 We the people said, got to add them. We got 469 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,480 to add them to the Constitution. 470 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 3: There you go. 471 00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,759 Speaker 2: I mean, I love it, and I think what you're 472 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:33,319 saying is so timely because we are in the two 473 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:38,000 hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the nation. We ought to 474 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,759 be having these conversations across the country, Jesse and Gena 475 00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,839 to say this was the past, this was the old, 476 00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:50,640 how will we go forward in the new? And what 477 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,920 you are talking about the issues that we're dealing with 478 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,519 still two hundred years you know, almost two hundred years 479 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,759 after this, and you know, four hundred years after you know, 480 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,680 our folks came to this nation, we're still dealing with 481 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,920 these fundamental questions of what it means to be a 482 00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:12,720 human being, a citizen and American. This ought to be 483 00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:16,319 a crossroads for this country to say we will not 484 00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:19,200 go forward the next two hundred and fifty years without 485 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,440 guaranteeing these rights. 486 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:24,119 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. 487 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,440 In just a moment, we'll come forward with our final segment, 488 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:30,960 and of course from Reverend doctor Ted Williams, a word 489 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,319 of hope more when we come forward. On KBLA Talk 490 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,119 fifteen eighty Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show, 491 00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:38,759 and this is our final segment that that meet Friday's 492 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:41,680 and the j Lunch Club. Gina Town's, our creator, is 493 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,039 our regular contributor on Fridays as well as our very 494 00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:50,279 special guest, Doctor Ted Williams, the Third Ted. Gina, Welcome 495 00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:51,880 forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. 496 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: For having us. 497 00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 5: It's always good to be here. 498 00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:58,799 Speaker 1: Gina had some insights that she wanted to share during 499 00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:00,880 the break that I thought she should bring forward now. 500 00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 3: So Ted and for our listeners, I can't wait till 501 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,880 if you were just listening, I can't wait for you 502 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,319 to go and download this podcast so that you can 503 00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:17,359 see Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King's speeches side by side, 504 00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:23,519 the similar rhetoric and the structures that are used in 505 00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:25,680 these speeches. But you know, part of what I was 506 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,559 trying to get to was what Jesse talked about before 507 00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:32,279 we went to break, and that is from eighteen sixty 508 00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:37,319 three to nineteen sixty three, we see Abraham Lincoln where 509 00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:41,279 he was in that portion of our history, and then 510 00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:45,759 you see King come forward in another error in human history. 511 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:48,599 And so you know, we're heading toward another space in 512 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,279 our own human history where we see some of the 513 00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:56,240 same struggles that pop up. But one thing I have 514 00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:59,279 to say about this is the whole idea of the 515 00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,519 amendment process is what Jesse was discussing that when we 516 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:08,880 got to the nineteen sixties, we enacted acts versus those amendments. 517 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:12,559 Whereas Lincoln was as sure as sure it could be 518 00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:15,519 that the Thirteenth Amendment had to be passed, he knew 519 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,960 that if he just did the Emancipation Proclamation, which is 520 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,400 an act that should he perish, that they could do 521 00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:26,200 away with the Act. And that's what we see unfolding here. 522 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,720 We see the unraveling of the Voting Rights Act and 523 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,319 the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and sixty five. 524 00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:36,279 And so that we have to rest assured that the 525 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:39,680 generations that we are teaching and pushing forward, they have 526 00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:41,720 to go and read this history. They have to read 527 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:46,200 the Emancipation Proclamation, the Amendments thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen. They 528 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:49,119 have to go read the Voting Rights Act and understand 529 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,880 why we can't just pass an act alone because it 530 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,119 is more easily undone. What it takes to pass a 531 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,440 constitutional amendment for human rights for everyone, state by state 532 00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:05,839 is an arduous task, but that's the work. 533 00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:06,519 Speaker 1: That is before. 534 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 4: You know. 535 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: I think that just to add a little clarity to 536 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,320 what Genus saying or is saying, the Emancipation Proclamation is 537 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,840 probably more akin to a executive order. It's not an 538 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,400 Act of Congress. So by the time you advance the thirteenth, 539 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,480 fourteenth and fifteenth Amendment, you know, it is ninety five 540 00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:32,079 years from Fifteenth Amendment to the Voting Rights Act of 541 00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:36,679 nineteen sixty five. Ninety five years to get Congress to 542 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,199 act and actually make it real and dwell amongst the people. 543 00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:44,760 Even with the Fourteenth Amendment, you end up with a 544 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:51,079 Fourteenth Amendment interpretation in eighteen ninety six which basically instructs 545 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,960 Congress that their interpretation of the equal protection clause is 546 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,960 separate but equal, and of course, a new interpretation in 547 00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:07,440 nineteen fifty four Brown versus the Board of Education overturns 548 00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:13,079 the Plessy decision because separate but equal is inherently unequal. 549 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:16,280 A new interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment that is largely 550 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,159 responsible relaying the foundation for the Civil Rights Act, which 551 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,840 led to the implementation by Congress of other acts, including 552 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,920 Americans with disability, including the right to marry, including overcoming 553 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,760 that loving case in Virginia, Mary, who you want to marry? 554 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,840 Challenges to the Man Act. That's what locked up the 555 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,920 heavyweight champion of the world at the turn of the 556 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,119 century because he did not have those basic protections. So 557 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,360 it seems to me that the pattern is once we 558 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,719 have a constitutional amendment, we have a civil rights movement 559 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,920 that can commence immediately, or it can take ninety five 560 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,440 years to get to a civil rights movement. If you 561 00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:03,760 guarantee every American the right to a public education of 562 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,880 equal eye quality. What's up next? The civil rights movement 563 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,199 to reduce all class sizes across this country to less 564 00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:15,639 than fifteen students or individualized instruction. What's up next? 565 00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 4: The Equal Facilities Act where if they have a swimming 566 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,960 pool over there, everybody gets to train for the Olympics 567 00:36:23,199 --> 00:36:27,920 in all public schools everywhere in the country. Because that's 568 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,920 an Equal Facilities Act, a civil rights act. So if 569 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,400 you amend the Constitution guaranteeing all Americans the right to 570 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,280 healthcare of equal eye quality. 571 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,119 Speaker 1: It means that the number one, the trauma units aren't 572 00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:42,199 on one side of town while there are no trauma 573 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,559 units on this side of town. And it gives people 574 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:47,519 the legal right and the government the structure by which 575 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,400 a civil rights can be passed. Where we find health deserts, 576 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:55,559 hospitals can then be constructed at the will of the people. 577 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,519 That's pretty much the structure of the system that we 578 00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:02,320 live in now. It's difficult, as that sounds, two thirds 579 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,280 of the Congress, three quarters of the states to actually 580 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,119 get a new human right added to the Constitution. Imagine 581 00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:13,800 if we did not have a system in place the 582 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,480 founding Ted of the country itself to even amend our 583 00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:21,639 way out of our problems. If there were no United 584 00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:26,440 States government, there would be no legal process for even 585 00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:30,039 ending slavery. Some states by now might have gone on 586 00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:33,159 ahead and set up their own country. But because they 587 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,360 agreed to union, and yes, we did fight a civil war, 588 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,519 there is a way out. And I can't think of 589 00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:43,360 with all of America's problems, Ted a greater experiment than 590 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,960 the one that we are living in. Said, we have 591 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,039 about two minutes before the end of the show, you 592 00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:49,760 might want to summarize everything for us and even offering 593 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,440 that context a word of hope. 594 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: Sure, thank you, and I appreciate Gena your connection with 595 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:03,159 the history, this arc. This is desire for years and years, 596 00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:06,039 generations and generations to get to this notion of equality. 597 00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:08,639 You know, brother Jesse, as you were talking, I was 598 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,880 just thinking about this process, this constitutional limit process. We've 599 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,239 only really done it really sixteen times outside of the 600 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,719 Bill Rights, and the last time was in nineteen ninety one, 601 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:25,280 the twenty sixth Amendment. And I think about here we 602 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,920 are in twenty twenty six looking at though we have 603 00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:31,639 a process to make this happen. Why is it so 604 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,119 difficult to have changed. That's the real question that we 605 00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:36,079 wants to ask ourselves today and what do we need 606 00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:38,480 to be doing? And I think to your point, it 607 00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:40,519 is not a state by state question. It is not 608 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,320 an individual question as many people like to simplify and 609 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,000 make these issues. It is really a guarantee of rights 610 00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:50,719 from the federal perspective, so that we can go forward 611 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,920 and have guarantees not just proclamations, but guarantees in public 612 00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,559 policy that will last a beyond a particular administration or generation. 613 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,320 And that is the real question that we must be 614 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,199 speaking to. And I pray in our lifetime going forward 615 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,199 that we will see more amendments to this Constitution. I 616 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,360 wish we could not have to go issue by issue 617 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,119 so that we could get these basic guarantees of human rights. 618 00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:19,519 I wish we could do it in a larger way, 619 00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:21,400 But it looks like his history is shown as we 620 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,159 may have to do that.