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<v Speaker 1>You are listening to a Fonds Media Network production.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to episode sixty one of World Ablaze. On this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>I have Tamina Watson. Tamina Watson is the founder of

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<v Speaker 2>Watson Immigration Law, where she has an expertise in investor

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<v Speaker 2>business and family based immigration. She is a published author

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<v Speaker 2>of multiple books and a strong advocate for immigration reform.

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<v Speaker 2>We spend some time discussing the various work Jesus how

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<v Speaker 2>they relate to a person's immigration status, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>touched on some other immigration issues that relate to the

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<v Speaker 2>United States and how that may affect immigrants around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope you find this conversation informative and I hope

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<v Speaker 2>that it opens the door for having further conversations with you,

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<v Speaker 2>your friends, and your family about this sensitive issue. Well, firstly,

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<v Speaker 2>I thank you for being here or taking the time

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<v Speaker 2>to be here. I know that you're busy. I was

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<v Speaker 2>reading up a little bit on you and you're an

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<v Speaker 2>published author, have another book coming out, Which is what's

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<v Speaker 2>an achievement for I mean, just doing one is an achievement.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean which which number book is this? It's

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<v Speaker 2>like number.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's see six, sixty six or seven. Yeah, I mean Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I love saying I've lost count I went

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<v Speaker 1>to ninety two, like Deepak Chopra or something. How did

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<v Speaker 1>get to ninety something? What are they doing that? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how to do? So yeah, I'm working on it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's interesting. Every book has journey and life of

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<v Speaker 1>its own, and this is at the early stages of

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<v Speaker 1>its life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's crazy. That's something I've never done, never achieved,

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<v Speaker 2>And so hats off to you for that. And you

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<v Speaker 2>specialize in immigration law, correct or did you practice any

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<v Speaker 2>other types of law before then?

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<v Speaker 1>I practice immigration US immigration law now for my entire

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<v Speaker 1>career in the United States, But when I lived in London,

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<v Speaker 1>I was born and raised in London, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer there. In my early days, I did criminal

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<v Speaker 1>defense law, some amounts of civil law practice.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So one of the reason I want to well,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the bigger reasons I reached out to you

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<v Speaker 2>is because one you're an authority on this. Two you

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<v Speaker 2>are published, and you do have a law firm that

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<v Speaker 2>specializes in this, namely immigration and immigration law. And with

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<v Speaker 2>everything going on, I wanted a perspective from someone who's

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<v Speaker 2>actually in it, who can actually interpret law and can

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<v Speaker 2>explain what's really going on and what rights there are

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<v Speaker 2>for those that are considered illegal or undocumented that are

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<v Speaker 2>coming into our country. And from what I understand, there's

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<v Speaker 2>always like there's a difference versus when they're on one

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<v Speaker 2>side of the border and when they cross over. And

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<v Speaker 2>of course there's the other situation where airports are kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like Switzerland or neutral if they don't really have

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<v Speaker 2>any borders, like they're not a country right until they

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<v Speaker 2>actually cross over into the destination they're going to. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of that, And I also want to

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<v Speaker 2>get your opinion on how things are being handled by

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<v Speaker 2>the administration. And we don't have to get too political

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<v Speaker 2>per se, but I do want to get some better

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<v Speaker 2>explanation of the laws, the rights and is the administration

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<v Speaker 2>going about this the correct way. Because I have my opinions,

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<v Speaker 2>I know other people have their opinions. Again, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I talk to like people in the intelligence community. I

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<v Speaker 2>have other journalists I speak with, and not a lawyer

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<v Speaker 2>though that specializes in this particular subject matter. So with

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<v Speaker 2>that being said, I thought, hey, to me, and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you can help us with this, Maybe you can explain

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit you know would.

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<v Speaker 1>I would be honored. My question for you is who

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<v Speaker 1>is your primary audience?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, our audience is pretty much I don't know everyone

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<v Speaker 2>whoever is willing to listen. To be quite honest, if

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<v Speaker 2>we have worldwide audience, multiple countries, hundreds of thousands of downloads,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm not really sure exactly who everyone is.

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<v Speaker 1>But a great problem top Yeah, well.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know about that. I just I just try

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<v Speaker 2>to keep things going and make sure everybody is satisfied

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<v Speaker 2>whoever does like my particular brand anyway, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>everybody who is listening to this episode now, which is great,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, regardless, again, I'll be honest, this show

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<v Speaker 2>can get political, but there's times where it's not. It's just, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk about the facts. Let's talk about what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about what's happening from a factual standpoint, from

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<v Speaker 2>the standpoint backed by data. And that's one thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping that you can do for us, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the things that were that was in

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<v Speaker 2>well contested for a while or people didn't understand and

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<v Speaker 2>even I'm still foggy on was was the right to

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<v Speaker 2>work as in you know, the h H one H

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<v Speaker 2>two A visas or H two B visas. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>explain how that works and how that relates to someone

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<v Speaker 2>who has one of those visas and works in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, so, thank you so much again, George for having

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<v Speaker 1>me and asking some of these brilliant questions, because when

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<v Speaker 1>people hear sound bites in the news, it gets even

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<v Speaker 1>more confusing because one side it says one thing and

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<v Speaker 1>another says another, and then you know, the listener or

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<v Speaker 1>the layperson doesn't know really where anything stands. So just

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<v Speaker 1>back basics for a moment. The United States immigration system

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<v Speaker 1>was created in nineteen ninety and the current system that

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<v Speaker 1>we work with, and it created a family based system,

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<v Speaker 1>element based system. In the employment based system, we have

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<v Speaker 1>temporary work visas and we have green card options. But

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<v Speaker 1>the temporary work visas or the temporary visa programs are

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<v Speaker 1>in the employment based system. There's no temporary visa in

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<v Speaker 1>the family based system. The family system is primarily get

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<v Speaker 1>a green card you with misfah with you, and so

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<v Speaker 1>in the employment based pre visa categories there are various

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<v Speaker 1>different types of visa categories which are labeled as ault

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<v Speaker 1>and then a number and so H one B, H

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<v Speaker 1>two B, H two A one A one B. And

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<v Speaker 1>so there are these letters and numbers and then letters

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<v Speaker 1>again that signa for specific categories of visas. And when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to these visas, they're really defined by the

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<v Speaker 1>type of work somebody is going to be doing. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you're a priest coming here to be a priest

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<v Speaker 1>to add a church, you would get a religious visa

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<v Speaker 1>R one. If you are quote unquote a genius, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the top people in your profession, be getting an

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<v Speaker 1>old visa, And that was a matter of controversy see

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<v Speaker 1>during the first time President Trump was in office because

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<v Speaker 1>the first Lady had that visa. So the H one

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<v Speaker 1>B visa is a work visa as well. And the

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<v Speaker 1>basic premise of the H one B visa is that

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<v Speaker 1>you must have a bachelor's degree in a specific subject

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<v Speaker 1>matter that gives you the academic training and theoretical training

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<v Speaker 1>to do a particular job that requires that training. So

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<v Speaker 1>even though I'm a lawyer, i would not be eligible

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<v Speaker 1>for a job in the computer industry because my degree

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<v Speaker 1>is not in computer science. Okay, so the specific degree

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<v Speaker 1>has to match a specific job. Any work visa has

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<v Speaker 1>three primary requirements to show number one that there is

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<v Speaker 1>an employer. Number two, there's a job, and number tho,

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<v Speaker 1>there's an employee that you're going to sponsor. The employer

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<v Speaker 1>is going to sponsor. Now, the employer has to make

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<v Speaker 1>specific promises number one that they are going to pay

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<v Speaker 1>the prevailing wage for that type of job in that

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<v Speaker 1>type of breer. So an entry level doctor in Kansas

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<v Speaker 1>City may get let's call it, fifty thousand dollars a year,

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<v Speaker 1>but the entry level doctor in New York might be

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<v Speaker 1>getting seventy thousand dollars a year. So the prevailing wage

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<v Speaker 1>is determined by the Department of Labor and they decide

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<v Speaker 1>what the salary will be, and the employer has to

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<v Speaker 1>essentially promise that they will pay that salary. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>the number one promise and number two promise is that

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<v Speaker 1>they are they have the finances to pay that salary

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<v Speaker 1>for a job that actually truly exists. Okay. And so

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<v Speaker 1>when we hear debates in the news, often the debate

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<v Speaker 1>is about bringing in cheap labor, particularly on the H

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<v Speaker 1>one B front. You might remember around Christmas twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four was major you by controversial disctions where Elon Musk

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<v Speaker 1>supports the H one B, and Steve Bannon does not

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<v Speaker 1>support the H one B, and then President Trump that yes,

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<v Speaker 1>he supports the H one B, And so there's controversy

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<v Speaker 1>among leadership about the benefits of an H one B.

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<v Speaker 1>But what are the facts. The facts are that employers

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States, such as Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, you

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<v Speaker 1>name the big corporation, they use H one B visas

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<v Speaker 1>because they generally cannot find enough talent to take those jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is that is because our education system is not

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<v Speaker 1>producing sufficient talented minds or people for our workforce. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the question that comes up from that is, well, they're

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<v Speaker 1>cheap labor, You're paying them less, And the answer is no,

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<v Speaker 1>if anything, it costs more to hire somebody on an

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<v Speaker 1>H one B. And the reason is not only are

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<v Speaker 1>they they the employer making the promise as per the

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Labour's guidance, but they also have to be

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<v Speaker 1>competitive because the people that they are trying to recruit

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<v Speaker 1>are being courted by multiple companies, and so they have

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure that the employer's offer is attractive enough

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<v Speaker 1>for somebody to say, yes, I would like to join you.

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<v Speaker 1>So they are often being competitive in the market. But secondly,

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<v Speaker 1>the employer has to then pay for legal fees, HI fees,

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<v Speaker 1>compliance fee go forth. And so for anybody listening, each

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<v Speaker 1>one B is an important visa in our immigration system

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<v Speaker 1>because often people behind the scenes that are managing important

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<v Speaker 1>parts of our lives. And you just need to look

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<v Speaker 1>at your telephone, your cell phone, the hardware, the network,

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<v Speaker 1>the software often are being managed by high skilled immigrants

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<v Speaker 1>who might be working at some of these telephone companies

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<v Speaker 1>or the wireless companies, or the you know, the technology companies.

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<v Speaker 1>All the apps that you have on your phone by

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of high skilled immigrants.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that was that was great on clarifying the

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<v Speaker 2>H one B I have. I also have further questions

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<v Speaker 2>as the differences between classification H one versus H two.

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<v Speaker 2>But I want to back up a bit, because you're right,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people were thinking this is just cheap labor,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want, I want to want to say something

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<v Speaker 2>about that, and I'm kind of I'm not saying I'm

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<v Speaker 2>correcting this, but I'm kind of thinking where this argument

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<v Speaker 2>possibly may have come from. And I know this from

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<v Speaker 2>the construction industry and various other businesses that I've owned

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<v Speaker 2>also throughout the years, and I will say that sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>there's a difference between prevailing wage and the market value

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<v Speaker 2>of a job in a certain area. So let's say

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<v Speaker 2>construction work, for example, if you're a framer, prevailing wage

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<v Speaker 2>I've just thrown this out there could be twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>dollars an hour, but due to the market demand and

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<v Speaker 2>what usually pays an experienced framer in that particular area,

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<v Speaker 2>they're actually getting paid let's say upwards of forty five

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<v Speaker 2>dollars an hour, especially if they're in the union. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering if that may have contributed to the misunderstanding

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, as you said, cheap labor was it

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<v Speaker 2>was it Could it have been a difference between what

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<v Speaker 2>was considered a market value for a job and what

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<v Speaker 2>was considered a standard prevailing wage.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a really, really astute question, and that could be

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<v Speaker 1>a perception that a lot of people have. But I

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<v Speaker 1>come back to competitiveness of the limited amount of talent

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<v Speaker 1>that there is in this country. And so when I now,

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<v Speaker 1>I live in Washington State, so it's very easy for

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<v Speaker 1>me toly talk about Microsoft and Amazon. But when there

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<v Speaker 1>is somebody both these companies might want to hire, and

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<v Speaker 1>the startup smaller companies want to hire the same person,

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<v Speaker 1>they have to be competitive with competitive market rates, otherwise

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<v Speaker 1>they will not have that talented person join them. So

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<v Speaker 1>while there is perception, that actually is probably widespread, George,

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<v Speaker 1>So great question. Thank you for asking that the pool

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<v Speaker 1>of people that these companies can draw from are still

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<v Speaker 1>limited and so you have to pay market value. And

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<v Speaker 1>in addition to that, there are you know, no no

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<v Speaker 1>secret if you go look at any job ad for

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<v Speaker 1>Monster dot com or Indeed dot com or wherever salaries

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<v Speaker 1>are posted, and these salaries when somebody promises a salary

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<v Speaker 1>that is through a form on the Department of Labor's website,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Department of Labour's website will have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of data that can be accessed by the public. And

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<v Speaker 1>so it it is again coming back to you, George.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a good question, But the reality is these companies

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<v Speaker 1>pay the market value.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And I was just asking the question because I'm

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<v Speaker 2>wondering if that's where that perception came from, and they

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<v Speaker 2>probably because I've seen it myself, you know. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not saying that applies to the situation for example, when

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about engineers, but just wondering if the public

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<v Speaker 2>may have I don't know if someone out there probably

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<v Speaker 2>came across out data and they thought, well, yeah, they're

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<v Speaker 2>getting cheap labor, and of course it has to be competitive,

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<v Speaker 2>especially and you know, again I have been an employer,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do know that. Listen, if you stay a

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<v Speaker 2>salary in publicly and is plubbly available, everybody has to

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<v Speaker 2>be you know, offered the same wage, at least the

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<v Speaker 2>same starting wage, and then you know, move up from there.

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<v Speaker 2>So I understand that I was just wondering if you

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<v Speaker 2>thought that might that that issue that I brought up

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<v Speaker 2>may have been part of that misperception. Is I guess

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<v Speaker 2>how I should have worded it as to whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not they're really paying for cheap labor. I don't believe

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<v Speaker 2>that's the case. Is but I do want to ask

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<v Speaker 2>you this, is there a myth? Is it okay? Is

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<v Speaker 2>this a myth with with an H one visa, for example?

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<v Speaker 2>Is is there a contract between the employer employee as

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<v Speaker 2>for a certain amount of time? Is that true?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure? Yes, that's that's actually part of the application process

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<v Speaker 1>where you have an off letter or a contract that

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<v Speaker 1>spells out the terms of the employment. H one vs

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<v Speaker 1>can be part time, and the contract would specify that,

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<v Speaker 1>but the actual application form would also specify if it's

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<v Speaker 1>part time of full time. The boxes on the forms

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<v Speaker 1>ask specifically full time, part time wages, hourly, annual, monthly,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever the way it is. And so that's a contract

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<v Speaker 1>and the employer actually has to contract with whatever else

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing they have. There's a lot of compliance involved

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<v Speaker 1>where if they are applying for a NACHU one B,

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<v Speaker 1>the employer has to post a copy of the quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote wage promise that we just talked about in an

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<v Speaker 1>inconspicuous place in their office for ten days so everybody

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<v Speaker 1>can see it. So if anybody is, you know, feeling

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<v Speaker 1>like there's an issue, they can most definitely complain. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's there is a process for this and it has

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<v Speaker 1>to be open and that posting is a very important

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<v Speaker 1>part of it to make sure there's visibilit and compliance

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<v Speaker 1>and then all of those forms get signed by them.

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<v Speaker 2>But I guess my question was more about the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I should have been more clear about the

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<v Speaker 2>question in my questioning was, Okay, does the employer enter

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<v Speaker 2>contract with the person who is to be contracted under

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<v Speaker 2>this H one visa? As in their sponsor them. So

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<v Speaker 2>does that mean that they're committed to this company like

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<v Speaker 2>that person's also committed this company and working for them

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<v Speaker 2>for let's say two years, three years, four years, five years.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that true of an H one as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Very good question. So, uh, the employment contract will look

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<v Speaker 1>exactly the same as it would for you and me

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<v Speaker 1>if we were hired. Gotcha, So the employment contract wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>look necessarily different. It might have an additional couple of

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<v Speaker 1>paragraphs saying subject to approval of your H one B,

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<v Speaker 1>but H one b's initially will be or any any

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<v Speaker 1>H one can be issued for up to three years, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>but total time that we can have on an H

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<v Speaker 1>one B is six years. So they can they have

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<v Speaker 1>to first get into a lottery, and the lottery period

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<v Speaker 1>is opening up March seventh to twenty fourth this year,

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<v Speaker 1>and if somebody is selected in the lottery, then they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have to be in the lottery again once you

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<v Speaker 1>know Employer A has has gone through the lottery. HAN

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<v Speaker 1>sponsored them and they worked for Company A, even if

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<v Speaker 1>it's for one day. You know, we're looking at a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of layoffs these days, which are you know, bringing

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<v Speaker 1>up different types of nuanced problems. But as long as

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<v Speaker 1>they worked for company A, they can move to company

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<v Speaker 1>BCDEFG as many times as they want without being in

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<v Speaker 1>the lottery. But only up to six years in total.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are people in the US who have been

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<v Speaker 1>on H one b's for much longer than six years,

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<v Speaker 1>but only if some technical steps have been taken towards

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<v Speaker 1>the cards.

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<v Speaker 2>So okay, let's go over that then. So when they're

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<v Speaker 2>six years is up, for example, what's the process for

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<v Speaker 2>them to be able to remain in the United States

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<v Speaker 2>for a longer period and continue to work.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Really, this is something that employers struggle with because

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<v Speaker 1>planning has to happen way in advance of the six years. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>in the don't have to necessarily test the market. You're

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<v Speaker 1>making the wage promise and you're having certain compliance issues,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're not testing the market because it's a temporary position.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you are going to sponsor that person for

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<v Speaker 1>a permanent position, you have to test the market to

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<v Speaker 1>ensure that no American worker has been left out before

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<v Speaker 1>you offer that job for a foreign worker. Now, to

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<v Speaker 1>test the market, there are many steps that have to

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<v Speaker 1>be taken. First, you have to ensure or the Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Labor believes that this is the right wage job.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have apply and Department of Labor might take

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<v Speaker 1>eight nine to twelve months give permission on that wage.

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<v Speaker 1>Then in your local area with the main newspaper of

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<v Speaker 1>that area, including three other ways of advertising. So the

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<v Speaker 1>government wants to see that you've made a bona fide effort,

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<v Speaker 1>a real effort to advertise the position, and that has

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<v Speaker 1>to be advertised for at least thirty days, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you have to wait thirty days to applications. Now, if

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<v Speaker 1>somebody applies for the job who has the minimum experience required,

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<v Speaker 1>the employer cannot move forward with the application unless he

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<v Speaker 1>hires this person or they hire this person and continue

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<v Speaker 1>with the other position. So if you've tested the market

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<v Speaker 1>and somebody exists, you can't go forward with that application.

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<v Speaker 2>And so there you can't go forward with the H

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<v Speaker 2>one B application.

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<v Speaker 1>Not the H one B. It's called a permanent labor certification,

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<v Speaker 1>a permanent.

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<v Speaker 2>Application, ah, got it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so there are many steps that the employer has

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<v Speaker 1>to take to test the market before they can make

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<v Speaker 1>that permanent application.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so they can't they can't convert this into a

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<v Speaker 2>permanent status of work unless they can prove that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we literally couldn't find any other candidate in the marketplace

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<v Speaker 2>to fill the position.

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<v Speaker 1>That's correct. That's correct, And when that application gets to

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<v Speaker 1>it has many steps, many different timelines, and many different

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<v Speaker 1>points of potential failure.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so, so how soon should should an employee a

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<v Speaker 2>non employe, I'm sorry, an employer, I mean, how soon

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<v Speaker 2>should an employer be taking these necessary steps to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that they're doing the right thing before they get

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<v Speaker 2>to the point of that person or that said employee

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<v Speaker 2>they're H one expiring.

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<v Speaker 1>Really great question, George B. A lot of employers will

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<v Speaker 1>wait until the first three years have gone by, and

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<v Speaker 1>then they'll start thinking about it. Because if the green

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<v Speaker 1>card application, the permanent labor certification application has not been

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<v Speaker 1>pending for one year or more, they cannot extend the

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<v Speaker 1>H one B beyond the six years. So there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of counting back and counting forwards to see when

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<v Speaker 1>you do these steps. And because it's very complicated and

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<v Speaker 1>not cheap, the process is expensive, employers don't necessarily want

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<v Speaker 1>to do this until they have to. But there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of employees chainly start the process as soon

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<v Speaker 1>as the H one B application has been approved because

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<v Speaker 1>they know all of these steps will take time, and

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<v Speaker 1>often these timelines can't be controlled. So for example, when

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<v Speaker 1>during the first Trump presidency, everything was backlogged significantly and

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<v Speaker 1>it took four years for the Biden administration to reduce

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<v Speaker 1>timelines in various different application processes. And so employers have

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<v Speaker 1>to be mindful that these timelines can can change and

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<v Speaker 1>go back and forth. And this is not just the timeline,

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<v Speaker 1>this is just the processing to get the green card.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a different type of calculation and an assessment altogether.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're from India, China, Philippines, Mexico, the waiting time

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<v Speaker 1>for people born in these countries is signif longer for

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<v Speaker 1>people who than people who are born in a or

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere in Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you repeat that? It kind of dropped, So people

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<v Speaker 2>born in India, Mexico, you know, basically China or China, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so longer period for them than it would be for

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<v Speaker 2>someone born in Canada and where else anywhere else in

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<v Speaker 2>the world, Oh, just anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes. What happens is the United States Green Card system

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<v Speaker 1>has a limit every year, and the annual limit is

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and forty thousand Green cards each year for

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<v Speaker 1>employment based applications?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that total for the United States or per employer?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a total for anybody trying to get an employment

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<v Speaker 1>based green card. So an employer might sponsor you, you

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<v Speaker 1>might sponsor yourself. There are one you categories in which

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<v Speaker 1>you can do that, but they all fall under one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and forty thousand, which is never enough for Green

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<v Speaker 1>card applications. And so these one hundred and forty green

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<v Speaker 1>cards are then divided into seven percent quotas for each

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<v Speaker 1>country in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah okay, And so if.

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<v Speaker 1>You have a country with a large population, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>longer waiting time because they're all fitting into the seven

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<v Speaker 1>percent quota.

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<v Speaker 2>So then okay, So the permanent right to work, Let's

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<v Speaker 2>say someone gets that status, what does that do for

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<v Speaker 2>their immigration status or here in the United States, because

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<v Speaker 2>it sounds like you still have to go through the

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<v Speaker 2>process of even getting a green card? What does that

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<v Speaker 2>do for that person? And still are they then could

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<v Speaker 2>they be considered a permanent resident? Because I'm foggy on that.

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<v Speaker 2>So can are you able to explain that?

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<v Speaker 1>You're asking some really fantastic questions, George? Until somebody gets

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<v Speaker 1>their green card in their hands. They are not a

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00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.799
<v Speaker 1>permanent resident here, got it? And you have to maintain

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00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.119
<v Speaker 1>your visa status throughout that time and that green card

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00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.359
<v Speaker 1>application with the technicalities I mentioned about certain times and

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<v Speaker 1>certain applications unless you get to and approved what's called

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<v Speaker 1>I one forty, where the employer has fulfilled their market

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<v Speaker 1>testing exercise and proven to the Department of Homeland Security

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<v Speaker 1>saying I couldn't find somebody. I'm sponsoring Joe blog. Until

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00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.559
<v Speaker 1>somebody gets to that point, they cannot extend their H

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<v Speaker 1>one bs for three years at a time, and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people in this country are in that situation. Yeah,

425
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.400
<v Speaker 1>and so you have to have that employer continuously sponsor

426
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 1>you for the H one B. Now, one of the scenarios, George,

427
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:50.119
<v Speaker 1>you might have seen over the last few years is

428
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.759
<v Speaker 1>the technology industry has seen a lot of layoffs. And

429
00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:00.200
<v Speaker 1>California's seen the layoffs, Washington stat has seen them over

430
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.319
<v Speaker 1>the country. People have been laving.

431
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Google and Apple just got rid of a lot

432
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.160
<v Speaker 2>of people a couple of years ago.

433
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>That's right. And it actually happened in twenty twenty five

434
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:09.559
<v Speaker 1>already too.

435
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.960
<v Speaker 2>It did. I didn't realize that.

436
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's happening, it's not necessarily hitting the news in

437
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the same way because there are so many other things

438
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.440
<v Speaker 1>that I keeping you distracted.

439
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 2>It's a chaotic twenty twenty five right now, Oh.

440
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480
<v Speaker 1>My gosh, so much chaos. But if you have lost

441
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>that job, your H one B has gone, but also

442
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that green cut application that your employer filed has also gone.

443
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, So what happens to that person who because this

444
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.640
<v Speaker 2>person who's working is doing so legally right, they're legally

445
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>here because their employer has sponsored them to be here,

446
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:55.160
<v Speaker 2>and they it's been determined that, look, we can't find

447
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>anyone in the market with your skills, so we need

448
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.759
<v Speaker 2>you here. Well, what happens to that person when they

449
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.839
<v Speaker 2>get stuck in this in between status where you know,

450
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.960
<v Speaker 2>like you said, there's only so many green cards available, right,

451
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.359
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and forty seven percent divided by seven percent

452
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.119
<v Speaker 2>among other countries, et cetera. But then what happens to

453
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.000
<v Speaker 2>that individual where they get stuck in that middle where

454
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 2>it's like, oh, well, you know, we're kind of stuck.

455
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 2>We can't get you the green card, or or they

456
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.279
<v Speaker 2>couldn't make it happen to where they could extend to

457
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.079
<v Speaker 2>a permanent work status. What happens to that individual.

458
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:30.279
<v Speaker 1>Really complicated, And interestingly enough, I appear in a New

459
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.079
<v Speaker 1>York Times story, so if anybody is interested, they can

460
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.160
<v Speaker 1>google my name in New York Times and there's a

461
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.720
<v Speaker 1>story about some people who were laid off and what

462
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.960
<v Speaker 1>they had to do. So there are some more details

463
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>in that particular article. But in essence, remember we talked

464
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.680
<v Speaker 1>about the temporary visa and the permanent visa. Yes, the

465
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.680
<v Speaker 1>temporary visa is what allows you to remain in the

466
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.880
<v Speaker 1>United States, so one must always have if you're on

467
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.799
<v Speaker 1>a work visa or employment based in a greation system,

468
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.240
<v Speaker 1>you want to maintain status with a temporary visa, the

469
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.960
<v Speaker 1>green card application that the employer might have filed and

470
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>you met that certain stage, you can keep your position

471
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.720
<v Speaker 1>in that quote unquote line. But a new employer has

472
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.240
<v Speaker 1>to go through the entire exercise all over again.

473
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.279
<v Speaker 2>A new employer so different, so that person would have

474
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.200
<v Speaker 2>to work for somebody else at that point.

475
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, or I, or if if the current employer is

476
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 1>giving you a new job because they're shuffling or restructuring

477
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.240
<v Speaker 1>within their own you know, entity and organization, they too

478
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.880
<v Speaker 1>have to file a new application. Because these permanent positions

479
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 1>are for specific positions, there could be some slight changes

480
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.200
<v Speaker 1>to keep that green.

481
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>It does sound like someone could get caught in the

482
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.960
<v Speaker 2>middle of the timing though, right, because yes, you know

483
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.640
<v Speaker 2>up to six years, as you said earlier on in

484
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.519
<v Speaker 2>h one, and even if even by year three, let's

485
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.759
<v Speaker 2>say they're already working on working on trying to get

486
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that employee to be a permanent worker status, but then

487
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 2>there's only one hundred and forty thousand green cards. I'm

488
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.559
<v Speaker 2>just I'm just in my mind seeing where this can

489
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.759
<v Speaker 2>be an issue at times, it is an issue.

490
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.079
<v Speaker 1>All the time.

491
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Totally.

492
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.440
<v Speaker 1>You've hit the nail exactly where it matters, and that

493
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:32.079
<v Speaker 1>waiting time is incredibly important to understand because that gets

494
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>that becomes part of the assessment of when you file

495
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.279
<v Speaker 1>somebody's green card because people from India, for example, they

496
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.920
<v Speaker 1>there are calculations and many reports written. One if anybody's looking,

497
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:50.720
<v Speaker 1>you can look up Cato c Ato which is a

498
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.000
<v Speaker 1>think tank and they have done a lot of studies

499
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.400
<v Speaker 1>and so you will look in one of their reports,

500
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.359
<v Speaker 1>just google it and the reports go through a lot

501
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.039
<v Speaker 1>of different you know, methods of doing these analysis and

502
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.880
<v Speaker 1>they found that anybody in from India in this backlog,

503
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.000
<v Speaker 1>often will have to wait seventy plus years to get

504
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>their green cards.

505
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's crazy, Yeah, that's crazy. What's really really quickly though,

506
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 2>let's let's define the difference because I wanted to know

507
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the difference also between you were talking about the categories.

508
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.559
<v Speaker 2>So what's difference between one and two? Like H one

509
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.000
<v Speaker 2>H two.

510
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Really good question. So H one B is, as I

511
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier, you must have a degree to do the

512
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.839
<v Speaker 1>job that that degree allows you to do, and the

513
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:45.240
<v Speaker 1>employer has that degree.

514
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.559
<v Speaker 2>So a degree within a particular discipline, right.

515
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.799
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, that's exactly right. And the H two B and

516
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.400
<v Speaker 1>the H two A these are seasonal visas where you

517
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 1>don't need a degree. The H two A is essentially

518
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.960
<v Speaker 1>for agriculture. And so when you see people coming here

519
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.119
<v Speaker 1>to pick our apples, you know, potatoes, you know, get

520
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:13.240
<v Speaker 1>salmon for example. Picture.

521
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was very familiar with H two A and

522
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>and and how it was used, but I was always

523
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.039
<v Speaker 2>unfamiliar with how they classify, you know, one versus two.

524
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:22.680
<v Speaker 2>And then there's there's there's one a.

525
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.440
<v Speaker 1>H one B is the one that we talked about, right.

526
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.319
<v Speaker 2>There is there an H one A or is it

527
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 2>just H one there.

528
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Is you know there is H one C okay, which

529
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.240
<v Speaker 1>is the nurses. It's not something I have generally used.

530
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.039
<v Speaker 1>The HB is typically the one that is used the most,

531
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.599
<v Speaker 1>but the H three as well. So the H two

532
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.920
<v Speaker 1>A is agriculture. H two B is for seasonal, intermittent

533
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:54.240
<v Speaker 1>or one time work. So if you see people at.

534
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 2>So as you said earlier that the letter denotes the

535
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 2>type of field.

536
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>That's it exactly right. So the H two B has

537
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 1>three types seasonal work, intermittent work, or one time work.

538
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.559
<v Speaker 1>And if you look at the ski resorts, for example,

539
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:16.880
<v Speaker 1>they likely use the H two B. It's very commonly

540
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.000
<v Speaker 1>known that President Trump at is mar A Lago Estate

541
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.880
<v Speaker 1>uses H to B for you know a lot of

542
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.000
<v Speaker 1>the workers that come to the resort, and these are

543
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:33.039
<v Speaker 1>seasonal workers, and these two have quotas. The H two

544
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 1>B has quotas and so and the age three visa

545
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.799
<v Speaker 1>is for people training who don't have training in their

546
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.039
<v Speaker 1>home country are coming to the United States to learn

547
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.839
<v Speaker 1>a skill that they wouldn't have otherwise. But proving whether

548
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 1>it's H two A or B or three or H

549
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.880
<v Speaker 1>one B, it's all about the paperwork. And all of

550
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 1>the various complicated procedures. So you said you're familiar with

551
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.559
<v Speaker 1>the H two A. There are times for it. I

552
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.799
<v Speaker 1>must have done, you know, things in advance to be

553
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.000
<v Speaker 1>able to jump into the you know, application process for

554
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the H to be or H u A. It's it's

555
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.559
<v Speaker 1>not simple, and there aren't that many lawyers who file

556
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.320
<v Speaker 1>AH to be an HUOA compared to the H one BS.

557
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's I mean, so there, there's there's a lot

558
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:26.519
<v Speaker 2>going on to what what an H one or H

559
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:31.039
<v Speaker 2>two visa does for somebody. And I needed I needed

560
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.519
<v Speaker 2>you to mean to explain all this because especially when

561
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>you go on social media, people don't understand what they're

562
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.119
<v Speaker 2>used for. It's it's a legal right for someone to work,

563
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 2>and there's a reason why that person's being brought in

564
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 2>for this particular type of work, and everybody, everybody just

565
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.559
<v Speaker 2>seems to automatically think the worst. You know, it's always

566
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.320
<v Speaker 2>a negative forever for the United States, for example, when

567
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>it's not the case, but it can be a negative

568
00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:58.679
<v Speaker 2>for the person gets stuck in the middle or gets

569
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.800
<v Speaker 2>caught in between those timelines that you were talking about.

570
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.920
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, totally, and you know, one of the reasons

571
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.360
<v Speaker 1>that there is a lot of concern is the the

572
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.599
<v Speaker 1>people who come to the United States on the H

573
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 1>two A or H two B visa program are similar

574
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 1>to the people who often undocumented doing this work. And

575
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:28.599
<v Speaker 1>so if you look at some of the agricultural workers

576
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:32.679
<v Speaker 1>and farm workers, you may find people who are not

577
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.960
<v Speaker 1>on actual H two visas, and that's where a lot

578
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:41.679
<v Speaker 1>of the controversy it's from. But A, we don't have

579
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:46.079
<v Speaker 1>enough of those visas, and b there aren't enough American

580
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 1>workers to go and do back in the sun rain,

581
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:54.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, on farms, and so you know, if you

582
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.519
<v Speaker 1>were to ever think about doing a follow up podcast

583
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.679
<v Speaker 1>on these issues, maybe interviewed somebody who owns a farm

584
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.800
<v Speaker 1>and will tell you they see every day.

585
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Well so, but that opens up an entirely different conversation

586
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.719
<v Speaker 2>because now we're talking about Now we're talking about not

587
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.960
<v Speaker 2>necessarily whether people want to do the jobs, is whether

588
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:15.920
<v Speaker 2>they want to do them for the wages being offered,

589
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and so now we're talking about competitiveness in the market.

590
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.679
<v Speaker 2>And the other reason why people have been upset is

591
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.239
<v Speaker 2>because you know, look, there's many people who said, sure,

592
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.719
<v Speaker 2>I'll go pick cherries, for example, if it paid thirty

593
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.119
<v Speaker 2>five dollars an hour for you know, we know that's

594
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.239
<v Speaker 2>not the wage for that particular position, but that's been

595
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 2>the argument. And so once we started outsourcing labor again,

596
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:41.760
<v Speaker 2>That's why I said, this is a different conversation. And

597
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 2>you're bringing in labor from outside while they're getting they

598
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.039
<v Speaker 2>are getting paid the wages according to the market, and

599
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:51.639
<v Speaker 2>what is a standard wage in the guidelines of how

600
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.119
<v Speaker 2>the government says you should pay someone for a particular position.

601
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Those positions in of themselves have been watered down and

602
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.320
<v Speaker 2>degraded to a lower pain. That is, versus if they

603
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:04.599
<v Speaker 2>were paying for somebody else, like you said, you know,

604
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.719
<v Speaker 2>someone someone here. Let's just say a white guy. You know,

605
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:08.719
<v Speaker 2>some white guy wants to go Picturey's. You know that

606
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.519
<v Speaker 2>he's probably not gonna go do it because he doesn't

607
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.039
<v Speaker 2>he's not gonna do it for that amount of money.

608
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:13.480
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if I don't know if it's

609
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:15.360
<v Speaker 2>an argument of whether or not people are afraid to

610
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.719
<v Speaker 2>do the work or they just don't want to do

611
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.920
<v Speaker 2>the work because they don't think it's worth what it's paying.

612
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 2>My job, Okay, so for my business, I'll bring this up.

613
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.239
<v Speaker 2>For example, we're in the events industry. So there's times

614
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.119
<v Speaker 2>I work with everybody. I don't care what race country

615
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:32.119
<v Speaker 2>you're from. You know, if you're a professional and you

616
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 2>know your stuff, and I don't have to hold your hand,

617
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.039
<v Speaker 2>we're good. I just don't want to worry about whether

618
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.079
<v Speaker 2>or not you're getting the job done. And I have

619
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.960
<v Speaker 2>people that are extremely good at their jobs. I mean

620
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.079
<v Speaker 2>no way more than I do, and they should. And

621
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm a white guy and I and I know people

622
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that are Mexican, I know people that are Indian that

623
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:51.599
<v Speaker 2>are all in this particular industry, and we all network

624
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:53.239
<v Speaker 2>with each other. We keep each other going, and we

625
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 2>keep each other paid. But we are working hard. Okay, now, now,

626
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 2>what I'm I'm trying to get at is all summer.

627
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.440
<v Speaker 2>I am in one hundred and five plus weather for

628
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.159
<v Speaker 2>sixteen eighteen hours every day working. I'm doing it because

629
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting paid to do it. I'm getting paid well,

630
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960
<v Speaker 2>and I pay everybody who works for me well because

631
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.840
<v Speaker 2>they're specialists within that that industry. But when we're talking

632
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 2>about people in the fields, they're not treated the same.

633
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think that is the issue that we have,

634
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.960
<v Speaker 2>and that's why most people say, yeah, I'm not going

635
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 2>to go pick those cherries or cut that lawn because

636
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not getting paid enough for me to go out

637
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>there and sweat. And maybe we need to change the

638
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.880
<v Speaker 2>perception of how people view hard work and labor in

639
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the United States. Maybe it's just a matter of retraining

640
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.000
<v Speaker 2>people or holding the industries accountable for making the wages livable.

641
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:46.920
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of that?

642
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.239
<v Speaker 1>That's a really I mean, it's such a complicated mulant

643
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:55.920
<v Speaker 1>situation that not just America but probably other countries grapple with.

644
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.679
<v Speaker 1>It's about the industry, right, I mean, let's say you know,

645
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.440
<v Speaker 1>you're a farm owner. Let's just take an example of

646
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 1>a farm owner and he's, you know, he's got a

647
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.559
<v Speaker 1>seasonal sort of cherry picking and he's got to make

648
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.480
<v Speaker 1>sure the cherries hit the grocery store where we're you

649
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:14.960
<v Speaker 1>and I are gonna go buy, you know, a pound

650
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.239
<v Speaker 1>of cherries for maybe six ninety nine. How much is

651
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:24.119
<v Speaker 1>he actually making? You know that that business there's a

652
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.960
<v Speaker 1>common misconception, and there are different businesses, different issues. Okay,

653
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 1>but what does the standard farm business make and what

654
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.000
<v Speaker 1>is the salary that's necessary to do that? Now, if

655
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.800
<v Speaker 1>they're paying thirty five dollars an hour for a particular

656
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>position in which they're actually losing forty dollars an hour.

657
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.559
<v Speaker 1>How are they actually going to keep that business going.

658
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's it's very it's a very complicated situation.

659
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.199
<v Speaker 1>We do need livable wages in this country. The Liverpool

660
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.400
<v Speaker 1>wages question comes up in childcare, in teaching, in construction.

661
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.440
<v Speaker 1>It's not related to the farm, farm workers and the farm.

662
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.000
<v Speaker 1>But the answer, you know, I don't necessarily have a

663
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.159
<v Speaker 1>good answer for you, because you know, it's just it's

664
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.199
<v Speaker 1>way it's way too complicated to go into. But I

665
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>will say this to you. I have had clients who

666
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:35.119
<v Speaker 1>own construction companies and home care, you know, nursing homes

667
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:39.119
<v Speaker 1>where people are trying to get into hospice care, so

668
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.719
<v Speaker 1>to speak. Because you know, our medical industry has its

669
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.320
<v Speaker 1>own very big problems. And so when they want to

670
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.519
<v Speaker 1>hire people for the construction industry or the you know,

671
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:54.760
<v Speaker 1>nursing home that he cannot find American workers. And one

672
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.920
<v Speaker 1>particular business owner said to me, to me, now, I

673
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.719
<v Speaker 1>was going to pay him exactly what he wanted. He

674
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.199
<v Speaker 1>showed up, he didn't know which side the hammer was

675
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:03.920
<v Speaker 1>up or down.

676
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:08.480
<v Speaker 2>I've seen that I've seen that.

677
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:13.440
<v Speaker 1>So so you're going to pay somebody, you know, a

678
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:15.960
<v Speaker 1>very high wage for not knowing how to do the

679
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 1>job you just said.

680
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>True, But that's also that I think that also has

681
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 2>that also is a reflection of how our culture has

682
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>changed over the years. It went from it went from

683
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 2>being proud of working hard and using your hands to

684
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.400
<v Speaker 2>playing video games and doing other things to make a living.

685
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>So that could just be generational or cultural shift versus

686
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.239
<v Speaker 2>what it used to be able to say back in

687
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.519
<v Speaker 2>the forties and fifties and so on. But I'm not

688
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not arguing. I'm just I'm just asking the question,

689
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.880
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying that I think.

690
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 1>It's a great question because these are provocative thought thought

691
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:56.800
<v Speaker 1>provocative issues that if we don't discuss them in an amicable,

692
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:02.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, loving way, how would listeners even think about it? Twice?

693
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.039
<v Speaker 1>You know? And the correlation to that is are we

694
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.400
<v Speaker 1>really developing the workforce that we need for this country?

695
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Do we have enough vocation, no training for people who

696
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.840
<v Speaker 1>can't go to our schools they can't afford, you know,

697
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the education costs that are required. Are we giving them

698
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:26.079
<v Speaker 1>vocational tools and schools? You know, plumbing or becoming electician.

699
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.719
<v Speaker 1>You know, are we doing enough of that? Are we

700
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.639
<v Speaker 1>putting enough emphasis on stam education at kindergarten level so

701
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:39.000
<v Speaker 1>that the next generation of workforce can do the jobs

702
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.079
<v Speaker 1>that H one B workers are doing well?

703
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.559
<v Speaker 2>The other questions, are we going out of our way

704
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.559
<v Speaker 2>to make those certain positions, whether they be the hands

705
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.159
<v Speaker 2>on positions you mentioned earlier or the professional positions, or

706
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.199
<v Speaker 2>are we doing enough to make them attractive to people

707
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.519
<v Speaker 2>to want to do it? I mean, is it a

708
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>marketing issue?

709
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, totally, it's so complex, George.

710
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.119
<v Speaker 2>What it is it is we really need.

711
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:09.000
<v Speaker 1>The entire society to come together and say we see

712
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.880
<v Speaker 1>a solution this way. If we don't find the solutions ourselves,

713
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.119
<v Speaker 1>and we're not invested in the solutions that we're not

714
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.599
<v Speaker 1>speaking up about what each group of people needs, we're

715
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 1>never going to have the solution, and we're going to

716
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.400
<v Speaker 1>get railroaded by executive orders by a handful of people

717
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.920
<v Speaker 1>who have the money and power to influence everybody else

718
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.159
<v Speaker 1>and point out these are the problems, but not necessarily

719
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.320
<v Speaker 1>come up with real working solutions.

720
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and the problem with the solution it needs

721
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.239
<v Speaker 2>a solutions aren't overnight then it needs a very well

722
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.400
<v Speaker 2>thought out, tested, qualified plan that needs to be put

723
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:51.679
<v Speaker 2>in place. And actually when that is put in place,

724
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.239
<v Speaker 2>you need to stick to it and not be distracted

725
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and go off course. And I don't think that's something

726
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:00.199
<v Speaker 2>that has been done. It's we seem very reactionary when

727
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.800
<v Speaker 2>it comes to when it comes to the workforce in

728
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.400
<v Speaker 2>America and to the markets in general, we're reactionary. There's

729
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 2>not a lot of planning really. I mean, you could

730
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>argue that. Sure, in a business, you have you plan

731
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.639
<v Speaker 2>your finances, your income versus your overhead. You know, like

732
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.360
<v Speaker 2>you know your net versus your gross, et cetera, how

733
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.719
<v Speaker 2>much margin you're making on a sale bunch, your percentages

734
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 2>of this and that, and you can go through your

735
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.599
<v Speaker 2>sales cycles versus so you know, hey, in Christmas, I

736
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.760
<v Speaker 2>know this is going to be huge for me, and

737
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.960
<v Speaker 2>then after Christmas it's gonna die down. We're gonna take

738
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.400
<v Speaker 2>some hits because it returns and it's et cetera. Now

739
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.440
<v Speaker 2>that's just data. You're just taking all that in strapolading

740
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.480
<v Speaker 2>it and you're analyzing it and then you can make

741
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:42.360
<v Speaker 2>certain predictions. But are you truly truly planning for the future?

742
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Of the actual industry or the workforce down the road,

743
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>because fast forward here we are. Now we're finding less

744
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 2>and less qualified individuals in the United States to do

745
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.280
<v Speaker 2>these positions that we need.

746
00:44:54.199 --> 00:45:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Filled totally, totally, and it's a conversation that everybody should

747
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 1>be having. And so I'm so glad you're leading the way,

748
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.840
<v Speaker 1>and I'm trying to make sure people get to hear

749
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:15.159
<v Speaker 1>some of these things. It's just imperative, you know.

750
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I just I just look at things. I'm just, you know,

751
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:21.519
<v Speaker 2>nothing special about me, Okay, I'm just an individual that

752
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I take it in. I look at what's going on,

753
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:27.239
<v Speaker 2>and I'm in quisitive. I have to ask these questions.

754
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.559
<v Speaker 2>I think most people have these questions on their mind,

755
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.159
<v Speaker 2>but they don't speak out. They don't ask, they don't

756
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.400
<v Speaker 2>talk about it. They just kind of go, well, that's sad,

757
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:35.760
<v Speaker 2>and they sweep it under the rug and they just

758
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:39.800
<v Speaker 2>keep moving on with their life. Nobody's really having these

759
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.920
<v Speaker 2>conversations except for maybe people like you, because this is

760
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>what you do for a living and you see it

761
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:47.519
<v Speaker 2>all the time, especially when it relates to you know,

762
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.360
<v Speaker 2>immigrants and having to deal with these these work visas.

763
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.360
<v Speaker 2>So you see it first hand. But most people, most

764
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:56.079
<v Speaker 2>average people do not see this or even deal with this.

765
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.639
<v Speaker 2>They just rely on what's going on in social media

766
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.880
<v Speaker 2>to tell them what's going on. And unfortunately that's not

767
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:04.039
<v Speaker 2>the way to go about getting your information.

768
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you know, love people to just think about

769
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.800
<v Speaker 1>for a second. You might not need you might not

770
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.199
<v Speaker 1>visibly be seeing the high skilled workers in your life,

771
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.320
<v Speaker 1>but the high skilled workers are behind almost everything that

772
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:24.280
<v Speaker 1>you're doing. If you're at the office working on Zoom,

773
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:28.559
<v Speaker 1>a high skilled immigrant founded Zoom. If you're on your

774
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:33.119
<v Speaker 1>phone using WhatsApp or Instagram, uh, these are you know,

775
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.400
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned before, the hardware software network in your phone,

776
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.599
<v Speaker 1>they're being managed immigrants. You know, if you go to

777
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.039
<v Speaker 1>the grocery store and you're seeing the shiny apples on

778
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 1>the shelves, immigrants are likely picking them. If you're getting

779
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.679
<v Speaker 1>the milk seamlessly appearing on your table on your shelf,

780
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 1>immigrants are likely milking the cow or however they operate

781
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 1>dairy stuff. If you're finding the toilet paper in the

782
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.400
<v Speaker 1>grocery store, is because an immigrant is likely driving that truck,

783
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:08.800
<v Speaker 1>which you know, obviously was very very prevalent as or

784
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.119
<v Speaker 1>exposed was exposed during the pandemic. Immigrants are actually the

785
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.079
<v Speaker 1>fabric of our society, and because it's much of it

786
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:23.719
<v Speaker 1>is invisible, those who are just living lives and you know,

787
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.159
<v Speaker 1>day to day doing or whatever they're doing. It's not apparent,

788
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.400
<v Speaker 1>but if we didn't have the immigrants, life would be

789
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.960
<v Speaker 1>falling apart, and that day may be coming soon. Who knows.

790
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I hope I haven't jinxed us, but it doesn't take

791
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 1>me to jinx us. You know that the executive orders

792
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:41.199
<v Speaker 1>alone will do it.

793
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I think what gets a little convoluted and everything is

794
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.079
<v Speaker 2>people trying to trying to throw a blanket over the

795
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.360
<v Speaker 2>word immigrant, you know, versus those who I don't know

796
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:53.920
<v Speaker 2>how you want to phrase it. I know everyone does

797
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.639
<v Speaker 2>it differently, undocumented, legal, whatever, But I'm just gonna say

798
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 2>legal immigrants versus legal people were legally here. And I'm

799
00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.599
<v Speaker 2>not sure your feelings because you see firsthand families that

800
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:11.159
<v Speaker 2>have to go through this, But what what how do

801
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.679
<v Speaker 2>we how do we move forward in handling those who

802
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:18.039
<v Speaker 2>are here illegally but are trying to be here because

803
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.840
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to make a better life for themselves. And again,

804
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm gonna keep the politics out of it because

805
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.960
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know that there are other conversations we

806
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 2>had with this, to be quite honest, and I've done

807
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of research that comes straight from the Border

808
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Patrols data. So I've seen it all, and I've done

809
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.840
<v Speaker 2>more than one show on this. So there's not much

810
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.440
<v Speaker 2>you can say about it that I probably wouldn't know

811
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.119
<v Speaker 2>or could tell you. But yeah, but for those who

812
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.079
<v Speaker 2>are trying to do it the right way. And and

813
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:46.639
<v Speaker 2>this brings me back to a story of a friend

814
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.800
<v Speaker 2>I have who had to come to this country due

815
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.159
<v Speaker 2>to I'll just I'll just say he had to come over.

816
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Grandfather was already here, grandfather was legally here for many years.

817
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Brought his grandson over to protect him. And he's been

818
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:04.079
<v Speaker 2>here for a long time. He actually worked for me

819
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.800
<v Speaker 2>for a while. He went to university. He's a computer

820
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:10.119
<v Speaker 2>science major. He works for a utility company. Guy's brilliant,

821
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he's going through a situation. He did

822
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.360
<v Speaker 2>it the way. He and his family did it the

823
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:18.360
<v Speaker 2>right way. They stuck to it the whole deal, even

824
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:20.119
<v Speaker 2>if in the beginning he had to just get him

825
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.440
<v Speaker 2>out to save him, right, his grandfather had to save him.

826
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.800
<v Speaker 2>But after all that time, legally. He's here illegally period,

827
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:29.679
<v Speaker 2>and he's trying to get his wife over here at

828
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.599
<v Speaker 2>right now. But he's battling this like no matter what

829
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.480
<v Speaker 2>he does. He's hired multiple lawyers, he's gone through every

830
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.360
<v Speaker 2>scenario you could think of, and it just keeps getting

831
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:43.320
<v Speaker 2>delayed and pushed back. And it's been years and so

832
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:48.599
<v Speaker 2>those people, I think some people or most people these days,

833
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:52.239
<v Speaker 2>look at every single illegal immigrant. Ask someone who's trying

834
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.800
<v Speaker 2>to do something bad or they're a bad person. Technically, yeah,

835
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.480
<v Speaker 2>you're breaking the law, But at the same time, not

836
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:04.800
<v Speaker 2>every or person is here for nefarious reasons. How are

837
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.440
<v Speaker 2>you handling that? Or in your experience, how have you

838
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.400
<v Speaker 2>seen the perception of people when it comes to that

839
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 2>distinction of illegal versus those who are legally here or

840
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.239
<v Speaker 2>do people just not even see the difference.

841
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, this administration, the new one, is not just making

842
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:29.639
<v Speaker 1>orders about undocumented immigrants. A lot of the executive orders

843
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:35.119
<v Speaker 1>are affecting legal immigrants too. But coming to a very

844
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:40.320
<v Speaker 1>basic answer to this very complicated situation is that we

845
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.920
<v Speaker 1>need immigration reform. Oh we have not had immigration laws,

846
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.840
<v Speaker 1>comprehensive immigration laws to keep up with the modern society

847
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.079
<v Speaker 1>that we live. In since the nineteen nineties. And now

848
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.159
<v Speaker 1>think about how many times over the world has changed

849
00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.599
<v Speaker 1>and evolved, and how many you know, evolution we've had.

850
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.239
<v Speaker 1>We've you know, industrial revolution, we've had you know the

851
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:11.199
<v Speaker 1>Y two K now the AI globalization. The world is

852
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:15.000
<v Speaker 1>so much smaller. The laws have not kept up with that.

853
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.000
<v Speaker 1>In addition to that, America is part of many international treaties,

854
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:26.119
<v Speaker 1>including the Human Rights Convention. And you know, nobody is illegal.

855
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 1>They could be undocumented, but human rights are an incredibly

856
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.480
<v Speaker 1>important part of American values, and so our laws are

857
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.800
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily keeping up with what we need for this

858
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 1>country and what we need for the future. There are

859
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.039
<v Speaker 1>jobs that need to be done in this country, and

860
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.119
<v Speaker 1>there are people who want jobs from different countries. There

861
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.800
<v Speaker 1>are people who want to just stay alive. You know,

862
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.559
<v Speaker 1>today you talk about cartels and that's a lot. That's

863
00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.880
<v Speaker 1>one of the issues for some of the Latin American countries,

864
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.920
<v Speaker 1>but other countries are going through wars. There are climate

865
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:09.639
<v Speaker 1>change issues that are displacing people. You know, the entire

866
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:14.320
<v Speaker 1>world needs to come together and find solutions. But in America,

867
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:18.360
<v Speaker 1>we need comprehensive immigration reform to make sure that our

868
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.440
<v Speaker 1>laws are keeping up with the times.

869
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so in your mind, what would that look like?

870
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Because if we look at it from as you said,

871
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:31.880
<v Speaker 2>a humanitarian standpoint, and we do need a reform, we

872
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:33.960
<v Speaker 2>absolutely do. It's crazy how long it takes to get

873
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.559
<v Speaker 2>things done in the system, and there's no reason anybody

874
00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.440
<v Speaker 2>has to wait ten years, fifty years, seventy years. I mean,

875
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.960
<v Speaker 2>that's just stupid. It makes no sense to me. But

876
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:48.280
<v Speaker 2>with your statement of there's no illegal, there's just undocumented, right,

877
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 2>it's all about humanity. So by that statement, does that

878
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:57.079
<v Speaker 2>mean the entire world every country should accept everyone equally?

879
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.239
<v Speaker 2>Should it just be an open system for anyone want

880
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.920
<v Speaker 2>to just travel in and out of each country without restriction?

881
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.880
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't. I think there should be agreements between

882
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:12.199
<v Speaker 1>countries to make sure that there are global solutions. When's

883
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:16.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, climate change that is you know, wiping away

884
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, land for people to live in. You know,

885
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:25.480
<v Speaker 1>my my heritage is from Bangladesh. It's a small country

886
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:28.599
<v Speaker 1>next to India. It's probably going to be under the

887
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 1>ocean in the next fifty two hundred years. Maldives might

888
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.159
<v Speaker 1>be one of those. I'm just saying there has to

889
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.400
<v Speaker 1>be both solutions. World leaders go to you know, Davos

890
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.800
<v Speaker 1>or wherever. There has to be world solutions. But for

891
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:47.360
<v Speaker 1>our immedia issue, we are in America, we are at

892
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:53.800
<v Speaker 1>the we have borders, we are bordering Canada and Mexico.

893
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:59.039
<v Speaker 1>You know, there has to be solutions that come from Legypt,

894
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:02.039
<v Speaker 1>that take into the taken into account the values that

895
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:07.159
<v Speaker 1>we live by and finding common solutions. And do I

896
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.400
<v Speaker 1>have an answer? No, you know, I'm just one person

897
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:12.920
<v Speaker 1>who advocates for what is what I feel is right

898
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:15.840
<v Speaker 1>for the highest good. But the people that hold the

899
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.800
<v Speaker 1>power can't seem to agree on anything. It's become a

900
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:24.360
<v Speaker 1>very divisive issue. But if we could go back to

901
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.400
<v Speaker 1>love as a source of energy in our world, that

902
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:33.679
<v Speaker 1>every human being deserves love, and every human being deserve

903
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:39.280
<v Speaker 1>a way to just live, why can't we come up

904
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:46.159
<v Speaker 1>with solutions that that can actually everybody and everybody does

905
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.960
<v Speaker 1>their own share. I'm not saying America should take everybody

906
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.400
<v Speaker 1>in anybody. I'm saying that we need to have comprehensive

907
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 1>immigration reform actually can find some solutions, and right now

908
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:02.079
<v Speaker 1>we have nothing. Oh sorry, it's three o'clock. I have

909
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.599
<v Speaker 1>to go this. This type of conversation can go on

910
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.760
<v Speaker 1>all day long. And so I'm so sorry I have

911
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.480
<v Speaker 1>to leave at three because I have a call coming up,

912
00:55:10.519 --> 00:55:12.119
<v Speaker 1>but I just wanted to make sure that you knew

913
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that before we dive into something else.

914
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, if we have to cut it off for now,

915
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.559
<v Speaker 2>we'll just have to pick up on another show if

916
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:22.360
<v Speaker 2>we're available.

917
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.159
<v Speaker 1>So sure, totally, totally, But you know, I so appreciate it, George,

918
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:31.039
<v Speaker 1>because these are the conversations that need to happen.

919
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:33.519
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I mean there's there's still so much for

920
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.320
<v Speaker 2>us to talk about in regard to just immigration law

921
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.840
<v Speaker 2>and everything. But regardless, why don't you just quickly let

922
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.920
<v Speaker 2>everybody know where they can find you and whatnot. And

923
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:44.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you and I will be talking again, I hope,

924
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:45.519
<v Speaker 2>and we can do this again.

925
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.320
<v Speaker 1>I would love that. I would love that. Well, George,

926
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.000
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for having me. If they want

927
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.840
<v Speaker 1>to connect with LinkedIn, you can find me there to

928
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 1>Mina Watson, and my website at my law firm is

929
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.800
<v Speaker 1>what immigration Law dot com. And I am an author.

930
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:06.079
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for mentioning mentioning that My author page is

931
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Tamina Watson dot com. And I have a couple of

932
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.199
<v Speaker 1>podcasts that are all you can't you can't miss me,

933
00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:12.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, just google me or find me.

934
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, well, thanks for your time and again,

935
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.119
<v Speaker 2>let's let's please do this again. I think we have

936
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.599
<v Speaker 2>to pick up and do this again and just have yes,

937
00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:21.679
<v Speaker 2>just for this conversation.

938
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.280
<v Speaker 1>It's good. Okay, that sounds good. Thank you again, George

939
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:26.320
<v Speaker 1>for finding me. Take care.

940
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks, okay, thanks, thank you for listening. And I

941
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:34.400
<v Speaker 2>hope you found that conversation informative. Please like, subscribe and

942
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.519
<v Speaker 2>share the show with others, and don't forget to turn

943
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.440
<v Speaker 2>on notifications for world Ablaze. Also visit us at our

944
00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:44.360
<v Speaker 2>website world Ablaze podcast dot com and you could buy

945
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.880
<v Speaker 2>me a coffee as well. That link is also on

946
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.639
<v Speaker 2>our website. Have a great day.