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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for

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February third, twenty twenty six. My name is Matthew Watkins,

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editor in chief of the Texas Tribune, and I am

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joined as usual by Law and Justice reporter Eleanor Klibanoff. Hello, Eleanor,

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thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: It is still law in politics. I saw that written

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in the script. I decided not to fix it. Truly

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insane we are, I mean, I guess I'm only six

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months into this job, six months into this job of

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you not getting the title.

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Speaker 1: And part of it is I have to say it

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literally every other week, every other week, and yeah, I

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still got wrong. So in this case, I think I

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knew it. I just typed it poorly.

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Speaker 2: Sure, law on politics, I mean justice. You know it's

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in the it's in the name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And here also with us is Matt Baum's, executive

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director of the Texas Advanced Energy Business Alliance. He's an

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expert on the grid, renewed energy and it's an impact

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on the economy. Welcome Matt.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Matt.

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Speaker 1: It's great to be here, great to have you. So

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the reason we are having Matt on is because we

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are about two weeks away from when news started coming

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down that sent tear across Texas. The news was of

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course that it was going to be cold outside, you know,

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and that brought you know, the normal Texas response. Grocery

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store shelves cleared, emergency provisions acquired, everyone sort of reliving

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their collective trauma from twenty twenty one. The weather, I mean,

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I don't mean to downplay it too much. It had

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an impact. Roads were shut down across the state, Schools

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canceled in North Texas for you know, basically a week eleanor.

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I had a very interesting experience where I had a

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pre planned ski trip, so I was actually in Colorado

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working the Sunday on call shift, you know, responding to

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the weather. It was negative four degrees outside where I was,

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and like a literal blizzard going on. While I was

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checking in on my colleagues where it was you know,

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like twenty seven degrees, and we were.

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Speaker 2: Like, it's all over for us.

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Speaker 1: Shut it down.

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Speaker 2: It is funny. It's like, you know, water, water everywhere,

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not a drop to drink exactly exactly, yeah, we do not.

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I will say the number of meetings we had to

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plan and prepare for this cold spell. I think it

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was more than we have to prepare for, like the

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election we have upcoming, like Texans stay ready for cold weather.

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Speaker 1: Matter. Are you from.

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Speaker 3: Texas now, I'm not originally Matt, I'm adopted. I'm an

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adopted Texan.

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Speaker 1: Okay are you Are you from a colder climate?

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Speaker 3: I am? Yeah. So for me, this is like, you know,

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not normal, but certainly something that we're used to. But

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I think that we're all dealing with PTSD from winter

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storm URI, right, Like a lot of the kind of

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news attention, I think people's general anxiety stems from that

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shared trauma that we all have back in twenty twenty one.

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So I think I really do think that plays a

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big role as far as the news cycle. But we

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can get into the details of kind of what went

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down over the weekend and how the storm was a

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little bit different.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: That's that's exactly right, And I think that's sort of

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the topic we want to talk about as well, right,

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because we did have what you would sort of describe

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as normal winter storm chaos, which is you know, ice,

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maybe some tree limbs on the line, power lines causing

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you know, sporadic localized outages and rows being frozen over.

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But the question, I think the thing that sends people

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rushing to the grocery store is that collective trauma that

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twenty twenty one power outage where you know, the grid

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almost failed and brought you know, the largest sort of

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rolling blackout situation in our country's history, and we managed

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to avoid that at this time, and it has raised

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the question that I think we want to sort of

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make be the topic of this podcast, which is have

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they fixed the grid? Does this mean that our days

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of a tenuous grid are over? Have we solved the

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problem heading into the future. Matt, you are going to

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help us kind of think through this question lending your expertise.

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But first off, I want to see, you know, let's

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take a step back. Let's talk about what actually happened

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during the storm. I'm sure you were probably tracking, you know,

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the sources of power and how everything was going. Did

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we ever have a moment of worry, did it ever

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look sketchy at all? Or did basically Texas past this

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test with you know, flying colors.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would say flying colors in the sense that

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we had some local outages as far as you know,

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ice on wires, which is to be expected during this

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kind of storm, but nothing like we saw during Winter

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Storm Uri. So you know, the storm I think tells

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us two things at the same time. It wasn't as

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extreme as URI, and the grid is genuinely much stronger

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than it was five years ago, right, So both of

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those things can be true at the same time the weather,

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I think duration matters a lot. URI was days of

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extreme cold and this storm was a lot shorter, right,

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But even so, we saw really high demand and tight

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hours and the system handled those moments without any cas

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gatting failure. So that's the progress and I think the

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state deserves a lot of credit for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I remember sort of telling people in

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the lead up, right, like we have to remember here

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that in Austin, when it's going to be in the twenties,

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that means it's going to be thirty degrees warmer than

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it was during that you know, winter Storm Uri, right,

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Like it was the difference between thirty two degrees and

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sixty two degrees basically, but you know, tagged on there,

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So definitely a situation where it wasn't as extreme of

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a storm. I want to kind of talk through about

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some of the different reasons for that. Some of which

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you possibly mentioned, and see if you could just sort

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of reflect a little bit on on you know, what

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impact those different things had. The first one I want

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to bring up is just weatherization, right, I mean, one

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of the big issues in twenty twenty one was a

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lot of natural gas plants in particular, were not equipped

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for that level of cold. They you know, lost the

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ability to either deliver natural you know, move natural gas

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or or generate power. That fell off in a very

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quick succession. The grid then had to sort of you know,

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the grid operators Urkott had to step in and you

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know shut you know, reduce demand significantly so we didn't

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completely overpower the grid. Is what is the kind of

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weatherization process we've gone through over the five years after that?

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And you know how much did that help? How much?

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How much is this assigned that that's working?

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Speaker 3: Definitely positive science. The state really took URI seriously and

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enacted serious what weatherization reforms in response to winter storm Ury,

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and a lot of that worked over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So you mentioned the weatherization of gas plants was largely

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optional when URI hit, and that became mandatory in the aftermath,

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including inspections that happened on a recurring basis. Simply put,

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I think that gas plants during ury were not prepared

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for the type of extreme cold we're seeing now on

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a regular basis. So I think that is a major change,

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and I think it's worth congratulating the state because it's

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something that Texas obviously took seriously, and we're doing a

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lot better than we were back in twenty twenty one.

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The grid also looks very different than it did back then, right,

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it's worth talking about those changes. I don't want to

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skip ahead too far, but the mix that we have

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on the grid is very different than it was this

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time five years ago. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that you set up my next question perfectly right,

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Because there's been a little bit of chatter among the

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sort of energy wonk world, very active Twitter community out

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there that I like to follow and pretend that I

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am one of those people as well about but a

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lot of those folks have been talking a lot about

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batteries during this period. I will quote a story that

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ran in the Texas Tribune saying basically, battery storage has

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more than tripled between twenty twenty three and twenty twenty five.

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Allowing you know that you know when there's higher demand

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or perhaps less apply to kick in and supply more

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power to the grid. What did the role of batteries,

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What was the role of batteries in this uh during

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the storm and during the grid and staying as strong

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as it did.

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Speaker 3: It can't be overestimated, and I'm really happy you asked

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that question. Batteries largely didn't exist when winter Storm Ury

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hit on the grid, and we now have about seventeen

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gigawatts of installed capacity, So that's a that's a gigantic change, right,

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And I think there's a misunderstanding sometimes on how battery

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storage works, so I wanted to just touch on that. Yeah,

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batteries don't run all the time, right, They're not considered

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base load, and what they are is their emergency responders.

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So what happened this is this weekend was a great

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example of that. Is Monday morning was when ERCA projected

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kind of the tightest grid conditions, meaning the generation would

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come very close to what the demand forecast was.

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Speaker 1: We didn't.

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Speaker 3: Luckily, we didn't come close to that, but the forecasts

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showed that Monday morning around eight am would be the

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tightest hour, and that's when batteries stepped up and discharged

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about seven gigwatts of energy. Right, So the technology is

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very different than how we think of traditional energy generation.

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But the advantage to battery storage you mentioned we're leading

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the country in battery storage. There's no other state in

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the country that has as much installed capacity as we do.

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We're at seventeen gigwatts of capacity. And the reason that's

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important is because they step up extremely quickly. They're actually

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the most dispatchable form of energy that we have. Right

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There's nothing that can ramp up as quickly as batteries,

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and that's exactly the tool that aircut needs in its toolbox.

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When grid conditions are getting tight and you can cover

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that gap by a couple hours, that's just huge.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit just like how these

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batteries work? I mean, who's build bilding them? Like, what

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do they look like?

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Speaker 2: In cause I think minor Shanning is it's actually more

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similar to what we're thinking, Like can I imagine batteries?

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People think, like, surely you don't just mean batteries, But

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minor shanning is, like the prep work I did before

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the storm of recharging my phone bank is not that

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different than what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So there's grid scale batatteries, right, and those

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are the ones we're talking about in this conversation. And

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then there's distributed batteries like a power wall or a

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base power battery. Right, A bunch of good examples there.

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But on the grid, the utility scale batteries, what they

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do is they store electricity when there's plenty of cheap electrons, right,

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So in Texas that typically means in the afternoon hours,

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when solar power output is really high. That's when batteries

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start storing their energy, and then they discharge when prices

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are a lot higher and energy is more scarce. Right.

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So they're entirely being built by private companies, right, This

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is all private investment coming to Texas. And what they

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look like is they look pretty much like large shipping

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containers that are sitting at substations or next to power

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plants for the most part in rural Texas. They could

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be they could range anywhere from the size of huge

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shipping container to the size of a refrigerator in a garage. Right,

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But they all fundamentally work the same way, which is

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they store power and then release it instantly. When the

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grid needs some help.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I think there's an interesting

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conversation about this is how much can we rely on

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batteries to prevent you know, things like what happened in

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twenty twenty one. Right. One thing I've sort of read

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about these batteries is they're great for moments of sort

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of short term need, but you know then you sort

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of drain them of their juice and you have to

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recharge them and wait till a time where power again

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sort of like amply available and everything like that tell

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me a little bit about like how they factor into

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the idea of keeping the grid secure in an event

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like this or maybe even an event like twenty and

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twenty one where you have much more sustained low temperatures

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and issues there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question, and I think it points

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to how political energy has gotten since Winterstorm EURI. Right,

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there's a feeling I think at the capital of well,

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I like this technology but not the other one, and

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fundamentally that's not how the grid works, right, Like, all

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these different technologies play a really important role. And you

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can go look at you know, the urkat dashboard, like

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a lot of us nerds do and just track it

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all day long and see what the generation mix looks

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like as the day goes on. Right, You're not going

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to have solar power at nine pm, right, but you're

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gonna have tons of solar capacity in those peak afternoon hours.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Similarly, you'll see battery storage stepping up during like a

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cold winter morning like we saw last weekend, right, or

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in the summertime that typically is in the sunset hours,

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right when the sun goes down before that wind energy

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picks up at night, So it's covering those really important

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gaps when the grid needs more battery storage. So they're

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not meant to run the grid all day, absolutely, They're

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meant to handle the most dangerous moments, the spikes, the gaps,

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the surprises when a power plant trips. That's when batteries

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really play a huge role. So they don't replace the engine.

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They think of them more as shock absorbers on the system.

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Speaker 1: Is there any worry? I mean, I don't know if

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I've necessarily heard this specific argument, which doesn't mean that

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it isn't out there, but I remember, like you know,

261
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the conversation around like wind power and even solar power

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during the last winter storm was right, like it comes

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on during the good times, when it's sunny and the

264
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wind is blowing. It's very cheap to produce during those times,

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which changes the profit margin situation from a place like

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a coal power plant or a gap natural gas power plant,

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making it less likely for those things to come on.

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But then something bad happens, like twenty twenty one or

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maybe even twenty twenty six, when you need that coal

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and gas but the market has kept them out of it,

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making the grid less sustainable. Is that an argument that

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you hear and do you lend any credence to that argument?

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I guess I'm looking now less in terms of how

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we did this past, you know, a couple of weeks,

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in terms of like long term futureable sustainability. Yeah, what

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do you think about that? That question?

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Speaker 3: It's a great question. And we have a competitive free

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market in Urcat, right, which is very unique across the country.

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And I can tell you from working in the private sector,

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there's a lot of businesses that prefer DOT coming to

281
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Texas versus other rtos or ISOs where markets are less competitive, right,

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And there are capacity markets across the country that don't

283
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necessarily function as efficiently as we do here. In Texas.

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So to answer your question, solar and wind absolutely lower

285
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the baseline price. Right. They have no fuel costs, so

286
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when they're producing, they basically displace the most expensive generators

287
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and that keeps prices lower and it reduces how often

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the market gets close to scarcity, right, like during a

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winter storm event. And then batteries, like we were just

290
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talking about, when demand surges or something trips offline, that's

291
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when the prices can jump fast. And we saw that

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during Winter Storm Uri, right, those insane price spikes. So

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batteries respond instantly to those prices and inject power at

294
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that key moment. So they all play a critical role.

295
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And you know, I think the state Texas has shown

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it's all of the above strategy over the last several years.

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And I know Governor Abbott has talked about how we've

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added forty gigawatts of generation since Winter Storm Jury, right,

299
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about ninety percent of new generations since then has been solar,

300
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wind and batteries. And that's again, that's just free market economics.

301
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It's not being subsidized. It's all just private investment being

302
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made in Texas, and all the market signals are there

303
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because of all the low growth that's coming, and that's

304
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like a whole other podcast that we could do talking

305
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about data centers and AI and all that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do want to get into that a

307
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little bit. But you actually set up as we're going

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down the list of you know, factors for why this

309
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year was better than five years ago. I mean, the

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other one I wanted to touch on was just the

311
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rise of wind and solar. Right, there is a lot

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more and in solar power online now than there was

313
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five years ago. How did that affect things?

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Speaker 3: It is huge that we saw. So I believe Monday

315
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was the coldest day of the year on January twenty sixth,

316
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and solar peaked at twenty five gigawatts, win peaked at

317
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eighteen gigawatts, battery storage peaked at over seven gigawatts. So

318
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if you add that all up, you're looking at over

319
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:31,200
fifty gigawatts of clean, reliable power when Texas needed it

320
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the most, Right, So, I think we're in a new

321
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chapter now where the technology is proven and stepping up

322
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in a big way when we need it. Not to

323
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mention you know, several months in a row during the

324
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summertime where solar and batteries are keeping the lights on

325
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for millions of Texans. So I think I hope that

326
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the political phase of how we talk about energy has ended,

327
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because again, we're going to need all of the electrons

328
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to keep the grid up and running, considering how much

329
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load is coming to our state.

330
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Speaker 2: And I mean fans of the pot. Last week, we

331
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talked obviously about like the oil and gas industry and

332
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how and you know, we talked about like even on

333
00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:11,839
that side, I think most people in oil and gas

334
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are kind of like, you know, we need all the

335
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energy from all the sources, like as long as everything

336
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is sort of is working. And that was you know,

337
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unrelated to the weather, but just like we're going to

338
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need a lot more energy for all the data centers

339
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and AI and just people move into Texas, you.

340
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Speaker 3: Know, And that's that's such an overlook point because oil

341
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and gas is electrifying their operations out in the permea, right,

342
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so they increasingly need cheap electrons, mainly solar and batteries

343
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to electrify and keep those those costs down. So it's

344
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all interrelated, right, Like all of these different sectors depend

345
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on each other, and I think that all we can

346
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do as a state is planned for the load that's coming,

347
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and try to be more proactive and not just wait

348
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for the tsunami to hit, but really start getting ready

349
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and send those markets to make sure that folks are

350
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coming with us here versus in other parts of the country.

351
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the last question, we'll go back to what

352
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we were talking about at the very beginning, right, which

353
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is just also, the weather wasn't as bad as it

354
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was five years ago, right, And and that sort of

355
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sets up like, I guess the big picture question I'd

356
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be interested in your insight on, which is how much

357
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of this past you know, a couple of weeks is

358
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a sign that we fixed our grid problems or how

359
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:35,640
much of it is just well, it wasn't as bad

360
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as it was before, right, Like if a twenty twenty

361
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one level storm hit us now, would you feel more

362
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confident in our ability to withstand it? Then? You know

363
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we should have felt heading into twenty twenty one.

364
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Speaker 3: That's that's the question, right And you know I'm not nostradamus,

365
00:20:56,519 --> 00:20:59,240
and yeah, it's hard to put hypotheticals on it, but

366
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I will say we dip down into like single digit temperatures,

367
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then we are in trouble. And a lot of that

368
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comes from resistance heating. Like I think folks don't quite

369
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,559
understand how inefficient our homes and businesses are. If you

370
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add up all of the resistance heating in Texas, you

371
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would get about twelve to fourteen gigwatts.

372
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Speaker 1: Explain resistance heating really quick.

373
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So think of like blowing a toaster oven through

374
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your home, and that's really what resistance heating is. It's

375
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,480
just extremely inefficient electric heating. And that's still how we

376
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build a lot of our multi family homes and apartments

377
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across the state, right because you know, the building codes

378
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are very minimal, and you know, we can get into

379
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that conversation, but really the point here is that if

380
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you could solve the resistance heating problem, you can just

381
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,440
wipe off twelve to fourteen gigwatts of peak load during

382
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,480
the wintertime. And that's the key problem. If we dip

383
00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:02,200
down to single digits, you're going to see just the

384
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,599
heating skyrocket. And it's not just about a grid emergency.

385
00:22:06,599 --> 00:22:08,920
It's also about the costs for the folks that are

386
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,599
living in those homes, right, because they hopefully make it

387
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,000
through the weekend, but then at the end of the

388
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:18,079
month that the bill comes in and those prices are exorbitant, right,

389
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,799
and we're in twenty twenty six and still building homes

390
00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:23,519
as if we were in the twentieth century. So that

391
00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:26,759
in my mind, that's like the quickest, lowest hanging fruit

392
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:28,359
if you want to solve this winter problem.

393
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: I think, you know, these one off freezing cold disasters

394
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,680
in Texas get so much attention, but I you know,

395
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,440
we've also had extremely hot summers where we've had to

396
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,480
worry about the grid getting tight. I mean, how do

397
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:42,640
we look on that side of things going into the

398
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,319
summer for what, frankly is like a pretty standard expected

399
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,680
Texas weather disaster of people cooking to death on the sidewalk.

400
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:58,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that that is really interesting. Like I would

401
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,920
encourage folks to pull up you could see it on

402
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,880
the dashboard. There's also a great website called grid Status

403
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,119
where you can check out the numbers. But there's a

404
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,640
pretty consistent pattern that happens in the summertime in Texas

405
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,000
right where you can really count on before the sun

406
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:17,839
comes up in the morning, you've got that battery storage

407
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:24,039
showing up on the grid. Sunrise happened. Solar really ticks

408
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,200
up until the evening hours when the sun goes down.

409
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,759
That's also when batteries play a critical role. And then

410
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:33,640
you've got the great wind energy at night that helps

411
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,359
us out in the summertime. So I think we're better

412
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,519
prepared for summer than we were even two or three

413
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,559
years ago because of solar and batteries, because the build out,

414
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:47,359
the deployment of solar and batteries has been so monumental

415
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,559
over the past few years. But the extreme heat will

416
00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:53,799
always push the system, right, the key difference now is

417
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:56,640
that the grid has more tools to manage those moments

418
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,400
instead of just immediately heading towards blackouts.

419
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Speaker 1: Well, and then there's another question here, right, which is

420
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:09,559
that just as we have added all this power, just

421
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:12,920
as we've done the weatherization and all the other things

422
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,319
that needed to happen. After twenty twenty one, we have

423
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,559
this new technology coming online which you mentioned, data centers, AI,

424
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:24,240
all those different types of things in which we are

425
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:27,440
expecting the demand on the grid to go up significantly

426
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:31,920
in the coming years. An Ercott projection saying that peak

427
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,440
demand could climb from about eighty seven gigawatts in twenty

428
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,559
twenty five to around one hundred and forty five gigawatts

429
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,759
in just six years to twenty thirty one. I know

430
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:44,119
that there's some questions about, you know, will all that

431
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,640
demand actually come online, and how much of that is

432
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,319
real and how much of it is not. But I

433
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:51,960
think it's safe to say a dramatic increase can be

434
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,200
expected in the coming years. How worried should we be

435
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,799
about kind of all these improvements and all these gains

436
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:04,279
being erased due to changes in technology moving forward?

437
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's where the conversation is heading. And

438
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,640
these days it feels like you can't talk about energy

439
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,839
without talking about AI. And the opposite is also true,

440
00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:19,200
because in AI circles, folks just want to talk about

441
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:22,480
energy and how they're going to come online in the

442
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,759
next few years, considering the power scarcity. And this is

443
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:27,960
not a Texas problem, this is a national problem, right,

444
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:32,480
Folks are talking about this across the country. The low

445
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:36,799
growth is unprecedented. But I think that Texas has a

446
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,839
really good track record of building energy infrastructure faster than

447
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,319
almost anywhere else. There's really no other part of the

448
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,559
country that could accommodate all of that low growth so quickly, right,

449
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,119
And I think that the Public Utility Commission deserves a

450
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,599
lot of credit. I think Urka deserves a lot of credit, frankly,

451
00:25:54,039 --> 00:25:56,480
because they've taken the steps to build out the high

452
00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:01,480
voltage transmission lines right. So the first seven sixty five

453
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,160
lines are getting built in Texas, and we're going to

454
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,880
need much more of that if we're going to move

455
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,599
cheap electrons across the state. So I think the number

456
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,039
is you know, is serious, and I think it can

457
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:16,960
scare some people, but it's not a crisis if we

458
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:20,680
plan for it right. We're very good at building energy fast.

459
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,839
I think that's what we do do in Texas. So

460
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,599
the risk isn't the growth itself. I think the risk

461
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,039
is falling back into the old mindset and the old

462
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:28,799
ways of planning.

463
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,799
Speaker 1: And of course, so much of that growth, that fast

464
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:34,640
growth that you've been talking about, has been in renewables,

465
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,599
you know, solar in particular. Our friend you know I

466
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,200
talked about you know, energy Wonk Twitter. Our friend Doug

467
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:45,559
Lewin posted on Twitter a couple of days ago that

468
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,799
the state set a new solar power record on February first.

469
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,119
It was supplying twenty nine megawatts of solar power to

470
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,559
the grid in the afternoon, which is which was slightly

471
00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:00,559
more than half of the power that was fed to

472
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:02,680
the grid at that time, which is a pretty amazing

473
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,000
uh uh you know shift I you know, we break

474
00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:11,359
that record fairly frequently. Two years ago, when Doug was

475
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,200
celebrating that record, it was you know, half the amount

476
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:20,599
that it was just a couple of days ago. Tell

477
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,640
me the story there, like, what's what's happening? Why is

478
00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:30,000
Texas you know, growing so much in a state where

479
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:31,920
as you already mentioned, you know, there is a lot

480
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000
of talk about protecting the fossil fuel industry and maybe

481
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:39,319
even some resistance to to renewable energy.

482
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:44,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's such a great story because I get like,

483
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:48,119
you know, national reporters calling all the time, and they're

484
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,200
like always surprised to hear that we're leading the country

485
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,799
in soular wind batteries. Right, They're like, how did Texas

486
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:58,240
become the leader in renewable energy in the country?

487
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:58,599
Speaker 2: Right?

488
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think we were blessed with the natural resources

489
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:06,000
to start there, Like we just happened to have a

490
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:11,119
huge amount of sunshine, vast open land that makes solar

491
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,839
generation much more productive compared to in you know, most

492
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,920
other states, frankly, but the key factor I think has

493
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,920
been the competitive or cup market because we reward low

494
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,319
cost generation in Texas, right, solar has really low fuel costs,

495
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,920
so once the panels are built, the energy is basically

496
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,440
free and on a really sunny day, which you know

497
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,640
we have plenty of in Texas, that pushes more expensive

498
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,119
generation out of the market. Right. It makes solar economically

499
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440
attractive for developers that come to do business here. So

500
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:49,680
the result of all of that, not to mention the

501
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,920
permitting and the transmission capacity that we have here. You know,

502
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,319
Texas is a very easy state when it comes to permitting,

503
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,920
like developers have a much harder time building in other places.

504
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,000
So the result of that is rapid growth, and we

505
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,640
now lead the country in solar capacity. I think the

506
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,480
numbers recently passed coal. I think solar capacity did surpassed

507
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:15,920
coal on the Urcot grid, which was a milestone that

508
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,279
I think no one saw coming about a decade ago.

509
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: Right.

510
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: So we're really leading the country as far as a

511
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:27,160
competitive market that rewards the cheapest electron available, right, and

512
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,240
a business environment that, as you know it just lets

513
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,400
projects get built extremely quickly.

514
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: We have talked about on this podcast before dating back

515
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:41,960
to last summer and had conversations with you offline about

516
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,680
this too, right, about how the story of sort of

517
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:51,799
government involvement with renewables and resistance and lack of resistance

518
00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:55,400
the Texas legislature, there was a series of bills filed

519
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:58,599
last year that really targeted the renewable industry or would

520
00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:00,880
have you know, a lot of people in the industry

521
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,079
argued would have been harmful to the industry. Uh, those

522
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,759
almost exclusively, almost completely did not end up passing, in

523
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,720
part because of a decision made by you know, many

524
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:16,559
Republicans of that sort of like everything, you know, all

525
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:20,960
of the above like approach to energy and feeding the grid.

526
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,960
And then you know, just a couple of months later,

527
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200
the big beautiful bill passed and and and some some

528
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:31,000
things that that kind of targeted the the the industry

529
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,079
were in that bill and ended up going forward. I'm

530
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:37,720
curious now, you know, we are you know a little

531
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,160
bit of like half a year since that bill passed.

532
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,279
Have we seen any impact of that in the renewable

533
00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:47,799
growth going forward? Like do we have a better sense

534
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,440
now of how that legislation will will affect things in Texas?

535
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it really goes back to the politics of energy, right,

536
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,839
and choosing and losers instead of just letting the competitive

537
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,880
free market do its thing, right, which is again where

538
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,839
Texas sets the standard for the country. So I can

539
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,359
touch on the Texas bills, but I think you reached

540
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,440
the conclusion, which is none of them passed the legislature

541
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:23,400
in Washington. You know they did pass the Big beautiful

542
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:28,039
bill has had an impact. I think solar and battery

543
00:31:28,079 --> 00:31:31,240
projects have mostly continued moving forward in Texas. So you know,

544
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:35,720
developers are still signing deals and building capacity because of

545
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,559
all the reasons I just talked about, Right, the urcot market.

546
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:45,319
The resources are abundant here, easy permitting, so we haven't

547
00:31:45,319 --> 00:31:51,920
seen developers really pull back those investments. The federal tax

548
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,599
incentives I think have improved project economics across the country

549
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:00,640
in general. Right, But Texas is still one of the

550
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,279
most competitive places to build. I think that you can

551
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:10,799
compare Texas to other parts of the US and point

552
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:13,119
to some areas of success. Right, So, like, what do

553
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,680
we do really well? Well, we are, our market efficiency

554
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,200
and our economics are very strong.

555
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: Right.

556
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: It's not like Texas is passing some mandate or some

557
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:27,400
state law requiring a certain generation mix, right, or you

558
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,160
know you mentioned some of the bills that were proposing

559
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,400
the legislature last year. None of those pasts because Republicans

560
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,599
are willing to stand up for free market economics and

561
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,680
leave the private sector alone and let it do its thing.

562
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,119
So I would say it's you know, it's a complicated question.

563
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,559
I think overall, I would I would say that the

564
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,759
competitive market in Texas is still the clear winner here,

565
00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:56,519
and my hope is that that continues in that Republicans

566
00:32:56,519 --> 00:33:00,480
and Democrats should work together to keep the grid affordable

567
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:03,599
and reliable. Right Like we're talking about these AI data centers.

568
00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:07,880
We can't afford to be cutting out electrons because they

569
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:10,480
you know, they're labeled a certain way, right Like, this

570
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:14,440
is ultimately it's about the most affordable and reliable technology.

571
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:16,640
So at this stage, considering what the numbers look like,

572
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,799
I don't think we're in a position to wipe any

573
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:21,119
of this generation off the table.

574
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we have seen how eleanor the technology

575
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,839
has really made our energy system more reliable during these storms.

576
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,519
If only we could have a similar advance on our

577
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,119
transportation system and you know, be able to drive when

578
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:40,480
these things happen now, or.

579
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: Our ability to ice or to salt the sidewalk in

580
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,400
front of our office, which remained an ice sheet for

581
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:46,400
somehow a week.

582
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,559
Speaker 1: Yes, but you know that's for a different podcast.

583
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,519
Speaker 2: We can with our building management. We'll bring them in.

584
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: Thank you eleanor thank you Matt for walking us through

585
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,119
this really been interesting and helpful. Thank you to our

586
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,720
producers Rob and Chris for getting this all together and

587
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:06,000
for composing our theme song. We will talk to y'all

588
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,599
next week.

589
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: H