Speaker 1: Welcome to the Big Bluin Sider. Dick Gabriel with you
Speaker 1: Thursday edition of our show, and it is one day
Speaker 1: closer to the Kentucky Derby. Tonight, this will be an
Speaker 1: hour number two. Ellis Star the Uber Capper, will join
Speaker 1: us and tell us how to make a little bit
Speaker 1: of money on the Derby and the Oaks. I have
Speaker 1: had success betting with Ellis, so pay close attention, kids,
Speaker 1: take some notes and you could have You're gonna enjoy
Speaker 1: I know Derby and Oaks weekend, but it's always more fun,
Speaker 1: right if you can cash. So Ellis will be with
Speaker 1: us coming up in hour number two. At the bottom
Speaker 1: of this hour Tom Leech, Voice of the Wildcats. We'll
Speaker 1: talk Derby with Tom as well, but we will also
Speaker 1: talk about the late Larry Johnson, the Kentucky point guard
Speaker 1: from Joby Hall's really good teams back in the seventies
Speaker 1: who passed away. This week, we'll also hear from a
Speaker 1: couple of the Kentucky Derby trainers, two of the favorites
Speaker 1: that are coming in Journalism and Sandman, so we'll hear
Speaker 1: their thoughts on their horses coming into the week, and
Speaker 1: things have changed so much through the years, constantly evolving.
Speaker 1: But back in the day, and I mean way back,
Speaker 1: like in the eighties when I first started covering the
Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, this was the day. This was the morning
Speaker 1: Thursday that we would just kind of make our way
Speaker 1: over to the racing office and get the post positions
Speaker 1: and the odds. That was it. We would all go over,
Speaker 1: they'd hand them out, Okay, thank you very much. Well,
Speaker 1: what happened was in the early eighties there was a
Speaker 1: situation where there were I think twenty three horses trying
Speaker 1: to draw in and there was a horse that was
Speaker 1: left out one year and tried to sue to get
Speaker 1: back into the race. The whole thing ended up in
Speaker 1: court in downtown Louisville Derby week and then a horse scratched,
Speaker 1: so they dropped the lawsuit and all this. So everybody
Speaker 1: who went to get post positions, because it was a
Speaker 1: big story, crammed their way into that office and it
Speaker 1: became such a big deal that Churchill Downs changed the
Speaker 1: format and then they had this public gathering to announce
Speaker 1: post positions, and then that became so popular, so the
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, they moved it around. It's on
Speaker 1: live TV, and it was this past Saturday on live television.
Speaker 1: So that's how much the Derby has changed through the
Speaker 1: years that instead of Thursday, you know what, two and
Speaker 1: a half days prior to the race, which is generally
Speaker 1: when every race is set up with odds and post positions. Well,
Speaker 1: now of Kentucky Derby, they set the odds and post
Speaker 1: position a week out. So I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: gets bigger and bigger. But we'll talk about that. But
Speaker 1: we got to talk about Mark Pope and John Rostein.
Speaker 1: The podcast that Rostein produced and aired and it's on
Speaker 1: YouTube if you want to go back and watch and
Speaker 1: listen to the whole thing if you haven't already. The
Speaker 1: internet has been swamped with comments and clips and we're
Speaker 1: going to share some with you now. Rostein was on
Speaker 1: with Tom Leachs this morning. Been trying to get him
Speaker 1: on my show. He's been so busy that he's not
Speaker 1: been able to accommodate me. He was able to jump
Speaker 1: on with Tom a little bit first thing this morning,
Speaker 1: but he had a great interview I thought, with Pope
Speaker 1: and Mark of course as always so excited. And Rostein
Speaker 1: began his podcast by just basically doing a monologue for
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes, but one of the things he touched
Speaker 1: on was how, yes, the NIL and the portal have
Speaker 1: kind of turned sports upside down, there's no question, but
Speaker 1: he basically told the same line that most of us have.
Speaker 1: I think you probably have too if you're a college
Speaker 1: sports fan, in that NIL has really really jumbled college athletics.
Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily a bad thing, because it's only
Speaker 1: fair now that the players get to share and the riches,
Speaker 1: and yes, some of these numbers are off the charts,
Speaker 1: and the way the pendulum swings in sports, it'll swing
Speaker 1: back the other way. But what is really turn this
Speaker 1: thing upside down and inside out is the portal. And
Speaker 1: I do think everybody agrees, probably with the exception of
Speaker 1: a handful of players, that you ought to be allowed
Speaker 1: to transfer once then after that you got to sit
Speaker 1: out of here. The people who would disagree are perhaps
Speaker 1: coaches who are welcoming a player they might need who's
Speaker 1: already been at three schools, and the coach is willing
Speaker 1: to overlook whatever problems the kid might have had. And
Speaker 1: of course the players who are bouncing from school to school,
Speaker 1: the school sometimes taking money with them without even playing,
Speaker 1: but oftentimes usually trying to find a spot where they'll
Speaker 1: better fit in because they're not patient at all. So
Speaker 1: that in mind. One of Rostein's first questions de Mark
Speaker 1: Pope was about being a head coach in today's climate.
Speaker 2: In some ways, the path forward continues to get murkier
Speaker 2: and murkier, And so I think where we are is
Speaker 2: I think we're getting bolder and boulder as we push forward.
Speaker 3: Uh, it's you see, you.
Speaker 2: See all these changes. It's just this field that's ripe
Speaker 2: full of opportunity and we're trying to steize on it
Speaker 2: every single moment. What is it like to be a
Speaker 2: head coach in this climate? It is the great it is.
Speaker 2: I love it actually because it tests you in every way.
Speaker 2: It challenges you every way.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: You know, you're you're.
Speaker 2: Taking in data and information at such an amazing clip
Speaker 2: and you have to model so many different possible scenarios.
Speaker 2: You know, as we as we kind of see here
Speaker 2: waiting on this settlement to kind of get some verdict
Speaker 2: on the settlement, you could see the trajectory of college
Speaker 2: athletics and college basketball going in a dozen different directions.
Speaker 2: You kind of got to model out all of those
Speaker 2: in scenarios that fit your program in your university, and
Speaker 2: so the challenge involved in that is never ending, and
Speaker 2: it's like I said, it's full of opportunity.
Speaker 1: Now as head coaches go, Mark Pope is on the
Speaker 1: younger side, of course, the same profession that has seeing
Speaker 1: guys like Jay Wright and Nick Saban, guys who have
Speaker 1: won their championships, done their work. They've stepped away Roy Williams,
Speaker 1: who again had had a great career and a little
Speaker 1: bit older than Mark Pope. But Mark excited about the
Speaker 1: opportunities first of all to be at Kentucky. Secondly to
Speaker 1: take advantage of information, the data he likes, and build
Speaker 1: a team. He's got a good recruiting class coming in,
Speaker 1: he's got a good portal group coming in, and he's
Speaker 1: got talented second year guys. You should listen to the
Speaker 1: podcast to get the full rundown on what he has
Speaker 1: to say about the guys coming back, Brandon Garrison, if
Speaker 1: take o Way, Trent Noah. But he is excited and
Speaker 1: it's to me it's an interesting reason he's so excited
Speaker 1: about his second year guys.
Speaker 2: Well, like you said, I think it's a key at
Speaker 2: being success and there's nothing like getting older with your own.
Speaker 3: Guys, right.
Speaker 2: And the second thing is my guys Traditionally, my guy's
Speaker 2: second year take a massive leap because you know, we're
Speaker 2: such a rebased offense and in parts defense, where our
Speaker 2: guys are the deciders on the floor, they're not looking
Speaker 2: over at me. We coach them to be capable of
Speaker 2: making decisions on the court, so they spend very little
Speaker 2: time looking over me. We coach them to coach each
Speaker 2: other and communicate with each other. And so with a
Speaker 2: year under your belt, now now you're coming in not
Speaker 2: to learn the game or do the game, but you
Speaker 2: come in actually starting to play the game and trick
Speaker 2: up the game and use all these actions to manipulate
Speaker 2: him in creative ways. And that's where the game gets
Speaker 2: incredibly fun. So these second year guys going to be
Speaker 2: really key for.
Speaker 1: Us, especially if he gets oh way back. I suspect
Speaker 1: he will, and as Mark said, O take away, there's
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance he'll be the preseason SEC Player
Speaker 1: of the Year coming back. But he's going to find
Speaker 1: out from the league at the very least what he
Speaker 1: needs to do to improve his game, get himself ready
Speaker 1: for the draft. And again, look at Antonio Reeves, look
Speaker 1: what it did for him. He came back almost like
Speaker 1: a different player, building on what he could do well
Speaker 1: and then getting better. Improved his handle, improved his defense,
Speaker 1: improved his ability to drive and score instead of just
Speaker 1: standing out there shooting three pointers, we could do the
Speaker 1: same thing. Rosstein basically had Mark go down the entire roster,
Speaker 1: and Pope was not shy about saying that, yeah, this
Speaker 1: Kentucky team will be capable if things break right, of
Speaker 1: winning a national championship.
Speaker 5: We can get it done.
Speaker 2: Now, there's a lot of teams that can get it done.
Speaker 2: But if we do this right with the right guys,
Speaker 2: you know, we can get this done. And that's our job.
Speaker 2: That's what we're supposed to do. That's the standard here
Speaker 2: and nothing less as acceptable.
Speaker 6: But in terms of the rotation, how many guys do
Speaker 6: you think you're gonna be able to play this?
Speaker 3: I'd like to play them all.
Speaker 2: So I have twelve guys right now. So I have
Speaker 2: twelve guys that come help us. We're actually going to
Speaker 2: try and round out this roster. I'm actually scouring the
Speaker 2: planet right now for guys that would fit in as
Speaker 2: maybe a red shirt guy that would kill it in practice,
Speaker 2: or maybe a last year of your career, guy that
Speaker 2: wants to come here and put on this one of
Speaker 2: one jersey and be a part of this. So we
Speaker 2: need to had a couple more pieces. But right now
Speaker 2: we have our we have our roster that's gonna that's
Speaker 2: gonna own the minace on this floor, and we have
Speaker 2: all the pieces.
Speaker 1: I hope people set up and took notice when he
Speaker 1: said I'd like to play them all and you know
Speaker 1: you can't do that, but you can to a degree.
Speaker 1: But it was interesting to me how people got really
Speaker 1: I don't know, antsy about the way Pope subbed. And
Speaker 1: there were times when he made mistakes and admitted to it,
Speaker 1: but for the most part we've talked about it here
Speaker 1: on the show. He will not sub the way a
Speaker 1: a lot of people expected him to and b the
Speaker 1: way a lot of other coaches do, because as he
Speaker 1: pointed out, and he got really specific, because more people
Speaker 1: were actually calling and gently criticizing on his show the
Speaker 1: way he subbed. But as he pointed out, we try
Speaker 1: to keep people fresh. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, we
Speaker 1: work so hard offensively, not just on defense, but offensively.
Speaker 1: We don't want people tiring and breaking down at the
Speaker 1: worst times. So they might say, you know what, this
Speaker 1: is my comment, they might sub a little earlier than
Speaker 1: they might want. Pope might not. They Pope does it
Speaker 1: and risk you know, missing a minute or two of productivity.
Speaker 1: So you've got people later in the game, and he's
Speaker 1: going to keep doing that, so you will not see
Speaker 1: him do what Caliperi and a lot of other coaches do,
Speaker 1: and that's whittle it down to eight. And again, cali
Speaker 1: Peri did that because John woodn't suggested it. But Mark
Speaker 1: Pope coaches a different style than wouldn't at Caliperi than
Speaker 1: a lot of guys. So don't expect to see a
Speaker 1: quote unquote substitution pattern beyond the very basics for Mark quote.
Speaker 1: People need to lose that terminology substitution pattern. Why do
Speaker 1: you want that? Because if you can recognize the pattern,
Speaker 1: so can the other guys. I say, you sub the
Speaker 1: way the game demands, the way opposing personnel demands. That's
Speaker 1: how you want to guy a sub. And if you
Speaker 1: can't figure it out, that's because you haven't been at practice,
Speaker 1: you haven't taken apart the game plan, you haven't done
Speaker 1: the scout. We can all sit back and see how
Speaker 1: it works. But if you're trying to coach along and
Speaker 1: say thereselfing, man, I put this guy in right now. Remember,
Speaker 1: Mark Pope is all about data. I don't have it,
Speaker 1: You don't have it, and he's collecting data while the
Speaker 1: game's going on. So just be paid. And if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work, we'll ask him about it after the game
Speaker 1: and he'll describe why. Oh and by the way, Rosstein
Speaker 1: asked Pope about the schedule, and Pope said their son.
Speaker 1: He basically said, there's something going on, but he couldn't
Speaker 1: talk about it. What it probably was was the fact
Speaker 1: that Kentucky will place Saint John's in the CBS Sports Classic.
Speaker 1: The Red Storm will replace UCLA in the annual event,
Speaker 1: So Mark Pope versus Rick Bettino in the CBS Sports Classic.
Speaker 1: That's according to the Saint John's podcaster David Delroy, Red
Speaker 1: Storm taking over for UCLA. On the other side, North
Speaker 1: Carolina and Ohio State up next. Derby doings. Bottom of
Speaker 1: the Hour Tom Leach on six thirty WLAP Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Big Blue Insider. Coming up to Bottom of
Speaker 1: the Hour, Tom Leech to talk Kentucky Derby and we'll
Speaker 1: talk about the late Larry Johnson, the UK point guard
Speaker 1: who passed away this week. Of course, a little bit
Speaker 1: later on Elis Star the uber Capper, we'll talk with
Speaker 1: us about the Oaks and the Kentucky Derby. I said
Speaker 1: it my horse is Journalism. Kind of picked him, not
Speaker 1: just because of the name, but that works out well.
Speaker 1: But I kind of liked him maybe two months ago,
Speaker 1: a little late getting in on the Derby picture this year,
Speaker 1: but I liked Journalism won the San Felipe Stakes and
Speaker 1: had been off for you know, three or four months,
Speaker 1: and then came back and was huge in the Santa Anita.
Speaker 1: Derby worked his way through trouble and won that race
Speaker 1: in a race that they didn't really need to win,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't going to be denied. So Mike McCarthy,
Speaker 1: Michael McCarthy is the trainer, and he told horse Racing
Speaker 1: Nation about how impressed he was by the way the
Speaker 1: horse came back in the San Felipe, and then of
Speaker 1: course later added the Santa Anita.
Speaker 3: I thought he would run very well.
Speaker 6: That was a little bit it's a little bit more
Speaker 6: than I expected, but very pleased with forb.
Speaker 7: When a horse runs that big and March first, do
Speaker 7: you figure, you know, feel like you've got a.
Speaker 8: Plan on it, not push him too much.
Speaker 3: I think it is what it is. You know, he'd
Speaker 3: had it coming off of a bit of it.
Speaker 6: I think it was a nine or ted week layoff,
Speaker 6: something like that as a fresh horse had run out
Speaker 6: of his bide.
Speaker 3: Came back into Sanity to Derby.
Speaker 6: And you know, I'm not gonna say duplicated that performance
Speaker 6: by that here had a fair respectable race.
Speaker 7: There's in tense moments in Sanity Derby and Roberto got
Speaker 7: kind of stuck in a five horse field there Or
Speaker 7: was that a concern for you at all?
Speaker 6: Or yeah, you know you could kind of see something
Speaker 6: like this get ready to brew about.
Speaker 3: The half mile pole. Very happy that happened.
Speaker 6: Three furlogs from rather than a quarter mile, for quite
Speaker 6: a bit of different outcome.
Speaker 1: There was a while there were it seemed like the
Speaker 1: best contenders were coming out of California, and I wondered, well,
Speaker 1: are they fit? Are they more fit and horses back here?
Speaker 1: But the answer was no. It's just that some of
Speaker 1: the trainers who favored the California tracks, like Wayne Lucas,
Speaker 1: like Bob Baffort, had better horses than other people. But
Speaker 1: then good horses come out of Florida, good horses come
Speaker 1: through Arkansas. For a while, yer the Arkansas Derby was
Speaker 1: considered eh, you know, yeah, they get some horses there,
Speaker 1: but suddenly really good horses started coming through. Of late,
Speaker 1: we haven't seen many great ones coming or even good
Speaker 1: ones contenders through New York. Orb did for Shug McGahee,
Speaker 1: but you know, of course Secretariat came from the Wood,
Speaker 1: but the Wood Memorial now is a grade too, so
Speaker 1: you know it's cyclical. A great Derby horse could come
Speaker 1: from anywhere. Mine that Bird came through New Mexico. So
Speaker 1: another strong contender is Sandman. Mark Cassie trains Sandman and
Speaker 1: talked to FanDuel TV about the fact that one of
Speaker 1: the real pluses for this horse, and I really like
Speaker 1: this is that this cult raced at two anymore. It
Speaker 1: seems like you've seen trainers kind of gamble and for
Speaker 1: whatever reason skip the two year old campaign, whether it's
Speaker 1: injury or lack of development. But Cassie really maintains that
Speaker 1: Sandman is the cult that he is today because of
Speaker 1: the hard knocks he took at age two.
Speaker 9: You know, we ran him at two and we got
Speaker 9: a lot of starts, and it's something that I really
Speaker 9: believe in. I think that when the going gets tough,
Speaker 9: and it's going to get tough, that he's going to
Speaker 9: have the experience over a lot of horses, and he's developed.
Speaker 9: And if you've followed my career very far, that is
Speaker 9: I'm kind of a guy that doesn't worries so much
Speaker 9: about winning first and second time out and letting him
Speaker 9: kind of come along.
Speaker 1: In case you're wondering Citizen Bull won the Juvenile, you
Speaker 1: might know that already and he's in the Derby field.
Speaker 1: But gone of the days it seems that the two
Speaker 1: year old champion, basically the Breeders Cup Juvenile winner is
Speaker 1: looked upon as the Derby favorite. It's going to be journalism.
Speaker 1: Of course, a Citizen Bull could jump up and do
Speaker 1: some damage. But the last cult to win the juvenile
Speaker 1: then when the Derby was Nyquist in twenty sixteen, Street
Speaker 1: Sense did it as well in twenty oh six for
Speaker 1: Todd Pletcher. A couple of other notes before we hit
Speaker 1: the break, I told you yesterday about John Elway's agent
Speaker 1: former agent falling out of a golf cart basically driven
Speaker 1: by Elway at an event in California, suffered late threatening injuries,
Speaker 1: blowed over the head, and he died yesterday, So the
Speaker 1: incident is under investigation. Atlanta Falcons have been fined by
Speaker 1: the NFL a quarter of a million dollars. Teams defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator fined one hundred thousand. The DC's son prank called
Speaker 1: Shador Sanders during the draft. That was a bit of ugliness.
Speaker 1: And I was looking for an update on Georgia Aymore.
Speaker 1: Of course, now a Washington Mystics guard blew her acl
Speaker 1: in a workout three days prior to the first exhibition game,
Speaker 1: but the team has said there is no timeline yet
Speaker 1: for her return. So fingers crossed for Georgia Amore. What
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible tough break up. Next, Tom Leach, the
Speaker 1: Voice of the Cats on six thirty WLAP, Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Big Blue Insider. Coming up this Saturday, of course,
Speaker 1: is the run for the Roses. Friday, it's the run
Speaker 1: for the Lilies. But before we talk with Tom leachs
Speaker 1: the voice of the Wildcats, about that and some UK
Speaker 1: related things. Tom, you and I were talking yesterday about
Speaker 1: the fact that we lost Larry Johnson, a great player
Speaker 1: from Joe Hall's first teams. And I've got a few
Speaker 1: years on you. I was in school with Larry, but
Speaker 1: you were, of course a fan grow up. You and
Speaker 1: your dad came to a lot of games. What do
Speaker 1: you remember about Larry Johnson?
Speaker 3: First thing I remember is those great Union County teams
Speaker 3: that he was on. When I would follow the Sweet sixteen,
Speaker 3: I wasn't attending often then, but you know, would follow
Speaker 3: it and then on Saturday get the semi finals to
Speaker 3: finals the TV. So I was just you know, followed,
Speaker 3: just as a basketball fan, eat up with the state tournament,
Speaker 3: you know, when it would roll around. And so Union
Speaker 3: County had that great run with Larry and Freddie Collen
Speaker 3: and Dwayne Casey. Outstanding team. So I remember from that
Speaker 3: and then the two memories that popped in my mind
Speaker 3: when you say Larry Johnson. Number one is the seventy
Speaker 3: seven team that I know. Goose says this, and I've
Speaker 3: had so many other people say it to me over
Speaker 3: the years. Was as good as the seventy eight championships team.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And they just got four cornered by John Custer in
Speaker 3: North Carolina. They got behind and couldn't catch him. The
Speaker 3: four corners up in College Park, and you know, the
Speaker 3: next year, Larry had finished his eligibility and Kyle was
Speaker 3: waiting in the wings as a transfer, and so he
Speaker 3: stepped in and they won the title that they could
Speaker 3: have easily gone back to back. I think had they.
Speaker 5: Been able to get past.
Speaker 3: North Carolina and then I would have likely denied the
Speaker 3: world the Al McGuire championship story. And like Pratt and
Speaker 3: Lee Rose and UNC, Charlotte might have spoiled their party.
Speaker 3: Of course they've got to spoiled by Marquette anyway. But anyway,
Speaker 3: they would have been in the final four and I
Speaker 3: think it would have had a great chance to win it. Anyway,
Speaker 3: long winded story. The other memory I have it popped
Speaker 3: in mind for Larry Johnson was the seventy six team.
Speaker 3: Wasn't it one of the best teams, But it was
Speaker 3: just as a fan, a team I really remember very
Speaker 3: fondly because they were struggling. They were ten and ten
Speaker 3: and in those days, I think only the top two
Speaker 3: went to the NCUBA Tournament out of the league, and
Speaker 3: they weren't going to be in the nc DOUBLEA tournament.
Speaker 3: But they got hot at the end of the year
Speaker 3: and you knew that if they lost, they probably had
Speaker 3: no shot of getting an n I T invitation when
Speaker 3: that's still meant much more than it does now. But
Speaker 3: they kept winning and they got the n T bid
Speaker 3: and then he drives the length of the floor. I
Speaker 3: want to say it was against maybe Niagara Providence or
Speaker 3: Kansas State Providence. Okay, you know they won that one
Speaker 3: on a buzzer beater and went on to win the
Speaker 3: title with Reggie Warford having a great game. But as
Speaker 3: that memory popped into my head too when you mentioned.
Speaker 1: This past, you know what, I was up there for
Speaker 1: that Providence game, and yeah, that's the game that actually
Speaker 1: put them into the championship game. And for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't remember where you sat at Madison
Speaker 1: Square Garden, the newer one for the game this year.
Speaker 1: That's where my seat was a sign up there and
Speaker 1: I had been up like in what they call the
Speaker 1: hockey press box, but I was down on the floor
Speaker 1: prior to the game, and I remember why, But there
Speaker 1: was it was a Saturday, I want to say, it
Speaker 1: felt like Saturday morning or early Saturday afternoon. Weren't many
Speaker 1: reporters there, and there was a seat right next to
Speaker 1: the official scorer at the press table, and I looked
Speaker 1: down and somebody goes, you know, go ahead and sit
Speaker 1: down there, you can sit whatever. I wound up sitting
Speaker 1: near the official scores for that game court side, and
Speaker 1: when Larry Johnson made that shot it was against Dave
Speaker 1: Gavitt's Providence team. Gavitt quickly came to the table wanting
Speaker 1: to ask the alternate official was it actually a buzzer beater?
Speaker 1: And I remember if ref came over, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: big deal. Wasn't any big review. Yeah, they just said
Speaker 1: was it good? Yeah, that was good. Okay, game over
Speaker 1: and that was it. But I remember exactly Larry took
Speaker 1: the inbound pass and turned. I think he took it
Speaker 1: from Reggie Warford and raced up the floor and he
Speaker 1: later told us he went in from the left side
Speaker 1: and he was in pressure, under pressure, and he said
Speaker 1: I saw a flash of orange, so he knew he was,
Speaker 1: you know, under the rim, and just put it up
Speaker 1: off the glass and that was it. And then I
Speaker 1: think he had another big bucket in the in the
Speaker 1: championship game down the stretch. So I love watching him play.
Speaker 1: He was so much fun, wasn't he.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, great defenders and a perfectly built to be
Speaker 3: a good defender. Man strong and could spread out and
Speaker 3: get low at low center of gravity. They talk about
Speaker 3: with nose guards in football, and he was just a
Speaker 3: bear to try to get past them. For opposing voint guards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a shot at the NBA, I want
Speaker 1: to say, with the Buffalo Braves. In fact, he played
Speaker 1: with him for a year out of college. Then he
Speaker 1: went to Japan and his memory serves he was like
Speaker 1: the MVP of the biggest and best Japanese league three times,
Speaker 1: and somebody told me that he was one of the
Speaker 1: most popular players in the history of Japanese basketball. I
Speaker 1: believe he married a young lady from Japan and he
Speaker 1: played for the Panasonic team. As you know they they
Speaker 1: worked air quotes for companies over there, like Sony, Panasonic, whatever.
Speaker 1: And when he retired from basketball, he moved back to
Speaker 1: the States and worked for Panasonic for a long time.
Speaker 1: So he did have a really nice pro career. And
Speaker 1: I was glad to see you moved back to Kentucky.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you had a chance to
Speaker 1: talk to him, but I know we did a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and man and that smile just went on forever,
Speaker 1: didn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fun teams to think back about now. And you
Speaker 3: know he was on the five team that made it
Speaker 3: to the championship game. He was coming off the band
Speaker 3: for then.
Speaker 1: Perfect Joe All player, wasn't he?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Joe, as you said, got some great players
Speaker 1: out of western Kentucky. Tom Leach is the voice of
Speaker 1: the Wildcats. We'll come back and talk about the Kentucky
Speaker 1: Derby upcoming in just a minute here on the Big
Speaker 1: moon Side or six thirty wlap welcome back. We're talking
Speaker 1: with Tom Leachy is the voice of the Wildcats. Of
Speaker 1: course you hear him on this radio station on the
Speaker 1: Leech Repoard every morning. But if you're a Keenland fan,
Speaker 1: you see his work on the website, you hear his
Speaker 1: picks and you keep up with the horses through Tom.
Speaker 1: And if so, how was your spring meet? By the way,
Speaker 1: did you did you have a good one?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actually I've probably finished a little bit ahead and
Speaker 3: I do the long shot pick for the today at
Speaker 3: Queenland Show. And you know, kind of like we'll get
Speaker 3: into this with the Derby Andy byer. Once I heard
Speaker 3: him in an interview. Say you're obligated if you're cover racing,
Speaker 3: you're obligated to make a pick Derby. Yeah, and so
Speaker 3: I think that's true. But you know what I do
Speaker 3: at Queenlan, we make there's a group of us to
Speaker 3: make picks every day, and then I also do that
Speaker 3: long shot pick with the TV show. And there's not
Speaker 3: a great long shot every day, but you're trying to
Speaker 3: just come up with, you know, the best possible one
Speaker 3: you could find. But I had one that paid forty
Speaker 3: five dollars towards the end of the meat, yes.
Speaker 5: And then had another.
Speaker 3: One unfortunately it was fifteen or ten to one that
Speaker 3: got bet down in half. But anyway, he'd give out
Speaker 3: a forty five dollars horse. You can live off that
Speaker 3: for all.
Speaker 1: Man, buddy of mine, bet that horse because of you
Speaker 1: took him across the board. So oh good, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta love it.
Speaker 3: I'm actually that was one I the reason part of
Speaker 3: reason I had a winning spring meet is I've rumbered
Speaker 3: to bet the horse too. That was one I liked
Speaker 3: more than some others. And thank goodness, he had a
Speaker 3: hair coming out of his nose that they got to
Speaker 3: the wire first of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well give me your your pick for
Speaker 1: as we say, for the feature on Saturday, for the Derby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like I said the buyer comment about you know,
Speaker 3: you're obligated to make a pick in the Derby, but
Speaker 3: you may not always have as strong an opinion. Like
Speaker 3: last year was an example. I picked I think just
Speaker 3: to tie who was way up the track. But you know,
Speaker 3: usually trying to find a way to beat the favorite,
Speaker 3: even though the favorite in a twenty horse field is
Speaker 3: higher than it would normally be under regular circumstances. But
Speaker 3: this year I have not found my way to picking
Speaker 3: anybody other than journalism. Was that way with the ORB
Speaker 3: back in thirteen for Sugar mc gay. He's sometimes the
Speaker 3: favorite just you know, is the one that it has
Speaker 3: to be, and so you try to find a price
Speaker 3: to maybe be in an executor or a trifecta. And
Speaker 3: you know that even with the favorites, the payoffs are
Speaker 3: better than usual in those bets for Derby. But there's
Speaker 3: several things I like about journalism, like the name. First
Speaker 3: of all, don't bet on names, but journalism wins with
Speaker 3: the nice headline to see. And then I think the
Speaker 3: fact that he is a pattern that I aways remembered
Speaker 3: victory gallop, and he narrowly lost the derby, and I
Speaker 3: think I would have cashed every bet they have on
Speaker 3: the derby if he had gotten up. But he came
Speaker 3: out as a three year old and ran a spectacular race, better,
Speaker 3: way better than anything he'd done it too, and then
Speaker 3: understandably backed off of that in his follow up start
Speaker 3: and then bounced back up or yo yoed back up.
Speaker 3: I guess I would say bounce as a different connotation
Speaker 3: at racings yo yoed back up to that first effort
Speaker 3: off the bench, and that's kind of what it looks
Speaker 3: like with journalism. He ran a one oh eight buyer
Speaker 3: dropped down to a one o two, which is still
Speaker 3: better than anybody in the field. But the other thing
Speaker 3: I liked about the sant Anita Derby, I was kind
Speaker 3: of thinking I would would pick against him as for
Speaker 3: the Derby because he'd already after that win that got
Speaker 3: the one oh eight buyer, And I think it was
Speaker 3: the Lewis stick at Santa Anita and stamped us a favorite,
Speaker 3: and I thought, Okay, he's just running against these short fields,
Speaker 3: and now he's got to go up against twenty and
Speaker 3: jock hasn't won a race of this caliber outside of California,
Speaker 3: right uh, And so I had a couple of reasons
Speaker 3: I thought to go against him, and then I saw
Speaker 3: the sanity to Derby and he faced some adversity and
Speaker 3: he got put into a box and didn't know if
Speaker 3: he was going to get out, and once he did
Speaker 3: recently was pushing on him, and I thought, Okay, this
Speaker 3: hor's going to get beat today, because Baeza had a clear,
Speaker 3: easy lead at that point, and Baza had to knew
Speaker 3: they had to win to get into Derby. And so
Speaker 3: that horse was trained to the minute, whereas sometimes like
Speaker 3: a horse like journalism had already done enough to qualify it,
Speaker 3: so he didn't have to be at his best in
Speaker 3: the Sanita Derby. But when he got out of that
Speaker 3: box and kind of straightened up and had a horse
Speaker 3: on a good horse on a loose lead in front
Speaker 3: of him, and he ran him down with no problem,
Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, that's that's enough for me. He's he's
Speaker 3: my guy. And then the jock question number one. I
Speaker 3: like res Police has been a good interview at the
Speaker 3: times I've had a chance to talk with him, and
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, yeah, he hadn't won a race
Speaker 3: like this outside of California, but Todd Golan hadn't won
Speaker 3: an NCAA tournament game, nor had Mark Cope, And once
Speaker 3: they had the right horses, they did pretty well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right. I like journalism going into
Speaker 1: the Santa and now I like him a lot more
Speaker 1: for exactly what you just said. You know, did not
Speaker 1: have a clear path. They said he had to check basically,
Speaker 1: otherwise you know, might have clipped heels, and any horse
Speaker 1: in a race like that, as you know that can
Speaker 1: check and then hit the gas again. Now you can't
Speaker 1: do that in a derby because there's just too many
Speaker 1: horses for the most part. But I just think that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, that horse, I think is really fearless and
Speaker 1: it has a huge chance coming in. Got to get
Speaker 1: the trip. Like everybody tell me about Bob Bafford and
Speaker 1: his return to the Kentucky Derby, I ran a comment
Speaker 1: from him last night about how he sounds like he's
Speaker 1: not harboring any ill will and how much he missed
Speaker 1: the Derby. He said derby when he had to sit
Speaker 1: out at Derby parties, But he really talked about what
Speaker 1: the Derby has meant to his career and what it
Speaker 1: means to racing. So to that end, it's good to
Speaker 1: have him back, isn't it.
Speaker 5: It is?
Speaker 3: And he had always been, you know, very cooperative to
Speaker 3: be in interviews, so I had, you know, nothing against
Speaker 3: him and I and he's obviously the arguably the best
Speaker 3: ever at what he does when it comes to pointing
Speaker 3: for the Kentucky Derby, and there's a you know, the
Speaker 3: skill to that. I've always said it's like, uh, coaching
Speaker 3: a college basketball team, uh in the era of one
Speaker 3: and done and now in this era of you know,
Speaker 3: transfer portal where you're rarely going to have the same
Speaker 3: team two years in a row. So it's all about
Speaker 3: with that one team peaking at the right time and
Speaker 3: then staying healthy and effort been able to work that
Speaker 3: formula as well or better than anybody over the course
Speaker 3: of his career, really going back to his first near
Speaker 3: miss with Kevin ear in ninety six, first to win
Speaker 3: with Silver charm in ninety seven. So yes to your question,
Speaker 3: good to have him back. And I'm not a big
Speaker 3: fan of Reguez that I think Citizen bulls faster. And
Speaker 3: if Rodriguez can't get past Citizen Bull and then you know,
Speaker 3: I think he's will have trouble winning. The only exception
Speaker 3: of that would be if somehow Citizen Bull didn't break
Speaker 3: and got buried down on the rail. But I actually
Speaker 3: think Citizen Bull is a little bit of a dangerous
Speaker 3: long shot because I think the rails are perfect draw
Speaker 3: for what he has to do to win the race,
Speaker 3: which is he's best when he's on the front, and
Speaker 3: I think he's probably faster than anybody else, unless you know,
Speaker 3: just under normal sort of somebody's determined to go out
Speaker 3: there and run it in first quarter mile twenty one
Speaker 3: and change, then they can maybe beat him to the lead.
Speaker 3: But the way these horses typically run, I think he'll
Speaker 3: be on front, in the front, and if anybody can
Speaker 3: have a horse withstand a brutal pace and still have
Speaker 3: something left in the stretch, it's Baffords, Yeah, because he
Speaker 3: gets his horse's part of his success I think is
Speaker 3: they're just you know, dead fit when they come to
Speaker 3: the derby. So I don't see him as it's a
Speaker 3: stretched for me to see him winning it, But I'm
Speaker 3: just thinking as a contrarian, I could see him finishing second,
Speaker 3: third or fourth, yeah.
Speaker 1: I can I feel better about Citizen Ball if he
Speaker 1: and his stablemate Rodriguez said at flip flop post positions.
Speaker 1: I just I know what you say about getting it
Speaker 1: on the rail early, but there's just so much traffic
Speaker 1: and horses that draw the rail have a greater challenge.
Speaker 1: It's those first like you said, those first couple of jumps,
Speaker 1: you got to clear that traffic. But he's got a
Speaker 1: good rider, Martin Garcia, so you know he can probably
Speaker 1: handle that. But I'm with you on that. We have
Speaker 1: a few minutes left with Tom Leach real quickly. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you about the portal as it comes to football,
Speaker 1: and you've talked about it on your show. But you
Speaker 1: know a couple of interesting pickups, guys who had some
Speaker 1: trouble in the past but now have a chance to
Speaker 1: be really vital for Kentucky. That's Harley Gilmore, the receiver
Speaker 1: who was at Kentucky went to Nebraska, now he's back.
Speaker 1: And the kid from New Mexico State, Seth McGowan, who
Speaker 1: was at Oklahoma, got in trouble when Juco in New
Speaker 1: Mexico State where ran behind Shas Pete, and now he's
Speaker 1: at Kentucky. It's interesting how those two guys tom could
Speaker 1: be vital to this Kentucky team.
Speaker 3: They can, and those are positions where more depth was needed, right,
Speaker 3: And I know they were really high on Hardy last
Speaker 3: season last year until he got hurt and then still
Speaker 3: found his way back onto the field and then uh
Speaker 3: mcgallan's had some serious issues certainly. Uh but it's a
Speaker 3: good bit of time has passed and as far as
Speaker 3: I know, there hasn't been anything since then. Uh So, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't want to downplay, you know, the seriousness of
Speaker 3: the what he did that was accused of at the time,
Speaker 3: but it's you know, guys, you can uh learn from mistakes,
Speaker 3: and so hopefully that's what happens. And guys, these are
Speaker 3: guys that take advantage or take advantage of the opportunity
Speaker 3: they've been given with a set of circumstances where Kentucky
Speaker 3: had a need and also a track record of you know,
Speaker 3: helping some guys that you know, have had a few
Speaker 3: issues and didn't have the perfect sense into their college
Speaker 3: careers and that it worked out fine. So they've got
Speaker 3: a track record of being able to, you know, get
Speaker 3: players into the way they do things and keep them
Speaker 3: on the path they're supposed to be on when they're
Speaker 3: at UK and so I, well, I think that's it's
Speaker 3: they've got the track record that you can have faith
Speaker 3: in and guys that look like they have the potential
Speaker 3: to help them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's interesting you say just that because that's
Speaker 1: essentially I felt like the message that Mark Stoops sent
Speaker 1: out to the media to a public if you read
Speaker 1: between the lines, basically saying, look, last year with the portal,
Speaker 1: we didn't do the best job of bringing in the
Speaker 1: right kids who did the right thing, and we're going
Speaker 1: to double down on that this time. So I think
Speaker 1: if indeed they're successful there, it'll look like a different year,
Speaker 1: don't you think. Yes.
Speaker 3: And that's where what I've said is that I understand
Speaker 3: the doubts, the skepticism off the season that we saw
Speaker 3: last year, and I understand you know that, I think
Speaker 3: that's a destroy the athletic looking at the SEC and
Speaker 3: it's comment of Kentucky was trading water or something. I
Speaker 3: get that feeling. But from the standpoint of Mark and
Speaker 3: his staff, if they're right about correcting mistakes that they
Speaker 3: made in the past, then that's how you outperform those expectations.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Well, here's Tom Leach and you can
Speaker 1: hear him each and every day on this Ferry radio
Speaker 1: station on the Leads Report, and we hope that you
Speaker 1: take Tom's advice. If you did on the Keelan Meat,
Speaker 1: you probably have some fun and maybe you'll have more
Speaker 1: fun with the Derby. Thank you, sir, have a great weekend.
Speaker 3: Happy Derby is our friend? Mister Asher used to say.
Speaker 1: Yes, coming up an hour number two uber Capper ls Starr,
Speaker 1: he'll try to help us make some money on Derby
Speaker 1: and Oaks Day. We're back in just a minute on
Speaker 1: six thirty.
Speaker 8: Wlpntet tact.
Speaker 4: Tact then.
Speaker 1: Don't welcome back join now by gentlemen, we talked to
Speaker 1: you a couple of times a year at least. That
Speaker 1: is Ella Star is the uber capper on Twitter or
Speaker 1: ex if you will public handicapper Block speaks to a
Speaker 1: lot of groups and helps us win at the racetrack,
Speaker 1: are you sir?
Speaker 10: On great Dick and Hello racing fans even't racing fans
Speaker 10: most of the year, Maybe they are this week for
Speaker 10: sure with a great Derby and Oaks coming up.
Speaker 1: There you go, hey, before I get into this I
Speaker 1: don't know if I've ever asked you this. How did
Speaker 1: you become the uber capper? How did this particular line
Speaker 1: of work grab you.
Speaker 10: It's a long story, long story, I can think, pretty short,
Speaker 10: pretty interesting. And living in California in the nineties, I
Speaker 10: answered an ad and used to be ads in the
Speaker 10: racing form for a startup company in Silicon Valley called
Speaker 10: track Master that needed a product development manager or had
Speaker 10: extensive racing knowledge. And I've been going to the tract
Speaker 10: for decades and took a job there. And as we
Speaker 10: developed beginning of the Internet, basically starting back then putting
Speaker 10: out pastformerces that people getting their programs or reforms we all.
Speaker 10: So I started to do selections and they were really
Speaker 10: well received. And I found that my writing ability, I
Speaker 10: thought was something people liked. So I started doing that
Speaker 10: as well as all the other things I do and
Speaker 10: moved to Kentucky in two thousand and one to come
Speaker 10: to work for Ecovate the database as the industry and
Speaker 10: continue to do the same thing and do blogs as
Speaker 10: you said, and work with groups, particularly under the repulso
Speaker 10: At Kieman, telling them how to bet what the bets
Speaker 10: me and also hopefully ferreting out the winners and.
Speaker 5: Some of the races.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks to you, I have cast several tickets and
Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed to tell people that I share it
Speaker 1: on the Twitter when I can. And by the way,
Speaker 1: you can see Ellis's work in America's Best Racing dot
Speaker 1: Net backslash Gambling equabased dot com backslash premium. And it's
Speaker 1: a great time of year. And I'm wondering as a guy,
Speaker 1: I think, I know that you came here from California.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about moving from the West coast
Speaker 1: to the racing capital.
Speaker 10: I think I was always at Kentucky and Dick know
Speaker 10: how miss That's great, that's.
Speaker 5: The best answer.
Speaker 10: The first time I flew back to like and I thought, well,
Speaker 10: I think I'm coming home. You know, said, that's forty
Speaker 10: years in California. You I just the way everybody embraces
Speaker 10: racing and also having four seasons and everything else about
Speaker 10: the hospitality in this part of the woods.
Speaker 1: You are in such high demand as a speaker. Does
Speaker 1: this week ever get old for you?
Speaker 5: Or is it.
Speaker 1: Exciting every week? Every year? I should say Derby and Oaks.
Speaker 10: Week very exciting every time. I wait, I don't try
Speaker 10: enough to make lists in advance and wait for the
Speaker 10: entries to come out and look at it the same
Speaker 10: way out any race, but with the especially the two
Speaker 10: championship races on Friday and Saturday, the Oaks and the Derby,
Speaker 10: you're looking at a different ballgame here because these are
Speaker 10: the best three year olds males and females in the
Speaker 10: country at this point and figuring it out. But it's
Speaker 10: always a new puzzle and it's always a lot of
Speaker 10: fun and to honestly, it never gets those fantastic.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the Oaks a little. I haven't
Speaker 1: had really much of a chance to get into that yet.
Speaker 1: What does the field look like this year?
Speaker 10: Good field of fourteen, But there is a standout and
Speaker 10: there has been in the Oaks a few years during
Speaker 10: the radio Alexandra ranks to riches. This year we have
Speaker 10: an undefeated Philly name good Cheer who's six for six
Speaker 10: and she's really not even undefeated. He's been unchallenged in
Speaker 10: the last sixteenth of a mile in most of her races.
Speaker 10: She's improving. It's only the third start of the year.
Speaker 10: She won the first four last year and it was
Speaker 10: the Golden Rod at Churchill, so she's got experience over
Speaker 10: the track, which can be important as well. And then
Speaker 10: took a few months off, came back even more mature
Speaker 10: and won the Ragio Alexandra Stakes name for that Fantastic
Speaker 10: Philly as well as the Fairgrounds Oaks, and she skipped
Speaker 10: the race after which is sometimes they go to the
Speaker 10: Fantasy in Oklahoma's phil just gonna have a little more
Speaker 10: of a gap I feel between their last race and
Speaker 10: the Oaks than Colescaha between their last race for Derby.
Speaker 10: So she's coming in the race. It's just fine. Trained
Speaker 10: by Brad Cox, who I had a note who won
Speaker 10: this race in there is twenty eighteen and twenty twenty
Speaker 10: and that was the one I was postponed to the summer.
Speaker 10: But she's doing everything right. When she opens his heavy
Speaker 10: favorite and she is the one to be. There are
Speaker 10: some horses that can in and they decide to leap
Speaker 10: frog over her. Something happens and she doesn't break well
Speaker 10: or something else. But other than that, she's tough and
Speaker 10: it makes for a fun race having a horse that
Speaker 10: is a buzz horse, so to speak.
Speaker 1: I agree. I think people like it. It's like when
Speaker 1: a great boxer is dominating the field, you know now,
Speaker 1: and of course there's gambling on that too, But just
Speaker 1: in watching the race, you want to be able to
Speaker 1: marvel at their ability, but you also want to see
Speaker 1: if somebody can pull the upset. This is a good
Speaker 1: Dolphin Philly, and they've been bringing pretty good horses to
Speaker 1: these races, haven't they.
Speaker 5: Yeah they do.
Speaker 10: They're didn't have a good pair in the Derby as well,
Speaker 10: and yeah, really they change the regiment. A lot of
Speaker 10: the horses are homebreads here in Kentucky and any race
Speaker 10: in the.
Speaker 5: In the US.
Speaker 10: They don't go to the Middle East of Japan to race,
Speaker 10: and that's not a knock, but it's just it's been
Speaker 10: the program and this might be the year. And certainly
Speaker 10: this Philly, she's definitely bred to get the nine Forlong
Speaker 10: says well. There are some other works that are interesting.
Speaker 10: Here a horse named Lakara who won the local property
Speaker 10: Ashland here in Lexington, and she won that race really
Speaker 10: interesting because she lets them start to finish. But for
Speaker 10: whatever reason it was nay horse field. The other jockeys
Speaker 10: and horses let her really slow down. I mean she ran.
Speaker 10: Just to give an example, an average quarter mile in
Speaker 10: the middle of a race might be twenty three and
Speaker 10: four fifths, three fifths twenty four seconds. She got two
Speaker 10: quarters of a mile in twenty five flats, so she was
Speaker 10: able to kick home just like a stretch runner. And
Speaker 10: she also wanted Turchill down, which is good. She wanted
Speaker 10: to poke honest the last September and that race he
Speaker 10: closed from eleven, so she's versatile and she's got a shot.
Speaker 10: There's a horse trained by Ken McPeek who won of
Speaker 10: course last year with Thorpey Doanna named take Charge of Milady.
Speaker 10: She ran second to Lakara and she had no chance
Speaker 10: to close into a care She's a nice horse. Another
Speaker 10: one called Blessed the Broker who won just up the
Speaker 10: Interstate at Terrify Park. She won the Burbonet Oaks on
Speaker 10: March twenty second, and she'll be a long shot because
Speaker 10: a lot of people discount horses coming to Churchill down
Speaker 10: the running in the big races off the Chfley Park
Speaker 10: for him. But she was really impressive. She moved from
Speaker 10: fifth to first on the far turn in the blink
Speaker 10: of an ipack. I say that was probably an eighth
Speaker 10: of a mile and she's ridden by a Hall of
Speaker 10: fame Jock and John Velasquez. So another one that certainly
Speaker 10: had a shot here. As you said, POSSI post the
Speaker 10: episode if good cheers not to the task.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about Kenny's horst take
Speaker 1: charge Milady, because as you said, the race that she
Speaker 1: lost ahead of what was the Ashland. When you allow
Speaker 1: somebody on the front end to run a couple of
Speaker 1: quarters in twenty five, that means they're resting. I mean,
Speaker 1: you just can't let that.
Speaker 10: Happen, right, Those an't workout times. I mean want twenty
Speaker 10: five second quarters when they're in the morning. So a
Speaker 10: horse like charge of Malady who two races before that,
Speaker 10: in a state race called that Martha Washington had closed
Speaker 10: from fourth to fourth to first with a quarter mile
Speaker 10: to go and then drew off, and a couple of
Speaker 10: races before that she closed from fifth to second. She's
Speaker 10: got no shot because you're basically facing a fresh horse
Speaker 10: at Kara who can kick on and run the last
Speaker 10: sixteens a mile in about six and a half seconds.
Speaker 10: So you got no shot. Still don't know if we're
Speaker 10: gonna have that kind of pace that she needs to,
Speaker 10: but it does look like it because in this race.
Speaker 10: There was a horse called Early on the rail simply
Speaker 10: joking in the two, finally in the three, and they've
Speaker 10: all run first and second in their last race in
Speaker 10: the first quarter and a half mile, so there could
Speaker 10: be an honest, honest pace to set up for Take
Speaker 10: Charge of Malady.
Speaker 1: What do we know about the weather for Friday, how
Speaker 1: it might affect the race.
Speaker 10: It looks like it's gonna be kind of showery off
Speaker 10: on all day. It's been updated a little bit. I
Speaker 10: think it's a little sticking around a little more to
Speaker 10: Saturday morning. But I don't think we're looking at anything heavy.
Speaker 10: And they even will affect it. You know, time to
Speaker 10: fan comes, there's any breaks in the clouds trickle down.
Speaker 10: So does a fantastic job of grooming the track, getting
Speaker 10: the water off. If there is water on it, they'll
Speaker 10: feel it tight, so everybody will run over the same track.
Speaker 10: I'll get the water off so there'll be no puddles
Speaker 10: to run through and stuff. I don't think it'll make
Speaker 10: a difference. Most these horses do avoid what tracks, but
Speaker 10: they often run over the same track. And I think
Speaker 10: your ability shines through at.
Speaker 1: This level, and they do a great job at Churchill.
Speaker 1: When it comes to weather. We're talking to Lstar, the
Speaker 1: uber capper. You can follow his work via Twitter or
Speaker 1: x if you will, and at equabas dot com. We're
Speaker 1: back in just a minute to talk about the Derby
Speaker 1: here on six thirty WLAP. Welcome back. My guest is Lstarr.
Speaker 1: He is a public handicapper, a speaker, a blogger. You
Speaker 1: can follow his work via America's Best Racing dot net
Speaker 1: or equabase dot com. And we've talked about the Oaks, LUs,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the Derby. Do you see journalism the
Speaker 1: way the rest of us do? Basically, he's the chalk.
Speaker 1: Is he the best horse in the race?
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I think so. A couple ks ago, I
Speaker 10: was looking to Sovereignty as my top pick, and don't
Speaker 10: get back to him in a second, but journalism when
Speaker 10: I watched the races again and how he met the
Speaker 10: challenges of the last two races again similar to which
Speaker 10: we just talked about the Oaks a good year, having
Speaker 10: a great two year old season and taking arrest and
Speaker 10: coming back as if there had been no time lost.
Speaker 10: Journalism did that and he won his first three last
Speaker 10: race last year was December of fourteenth, and then he's
Speaker 10: off till March. First he wins as if he'd never
Speaker 10: been away. Yes, it was a five hoarse s field
Speaker 10: in California, but he did beat two of baffer tourses
Speaker 10: and we know how good they can be. And then
Speaker 10: Journalism won the Sandy Derby and in the Sane's Derby
Speaker 10: were interesting because Baiza, who has entering the Derby, is
Speaker 10: the last also eligible, which ships in if somebody scratches.
Speaker 10: Baza had made the lead and Journalisms met that challenge
Speaker 10: and just said no, I'm not going to let it happen,
Speaker 10: and he just did. It didn't need and he had
Speaker 10: enough points to enter the gate in the derby so
Speaker 10: he didn't need to. He's really really good and he's
Speaker 10: very consistent in terms of we call speed figures that
Speaker 10: we use to normalize for time among different tracks. Is
Speaker 10: speed figure was a one ten and a one oh eight.
Speaker 10: Those are very good, about one ten average to win
Speaker 10: the Derby, he's got the best pair of speed figures.
Speaker 10: Other worses that have one or nine's in one of
Speaker 10: their last two as well, but he's got the best
Speaker 10: pair of figures to improve upon. My understanding is he's
Speaker 10: been working phenomenally in the morning. So you know, luckily
Speaker 10: in a normal racehorse like this might be one to
Speaker 10: one or less. He might be three to one or
Speaker 10: five to two, two and a half to one here,
Speaker 10: which may be worth it for a horse like this,
Speaker 10: but the contention doesn't end with him because there are
Speaker 10: some unknown factors in this race.
Speaker 1: Well, you've got a jockey who's never won the race,
Speaker 1: but of course he's been riding the horse. How much
Speaker 1: weight do you put on jocks? I know, if he's
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer, you don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 1: But this race is different, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 10: What it is? And Emburrow Riskally, who's been running in California,
Speaker 10: one the top three jockeys in California three years, knows
Speaker 10: this horse well and he's been at Churchill Downs. I
Speaker 10: think she rode at Quemlin closing weekend riding at Churchill
Speaker 10: to get used to it. It can't be an issue though,
Speaker 10: because it is a big white horse. You know, it's
Speaker 10: a mile and eighth on a mile, and it's a
Speaker 10: little different than what he might be used to riding.
Speaker 10: But as far as the derby goes, I don't put
Speaker 10: any on the main the top ten jockeys ones for
Speaker 10: the best two or three from all North America but
Speaker 10: New York, California and Florida. I don't put much spit
Speaker 10: in them. I like it when they've ridden a horse before.
Speaker 10: If they haven't, I take a look at who they are.
Speaker 10: In normal racist jockey means a lot. I probably give
Speaker 10: weight to jockey's quickly if they've ridden a horse before
Speaker 10: and ridden it well. In the MIDI other jockeys rode
Speaker 10: the horse incident, it didn't ride well, and they're getting
Speaker 10: reunited with jockey that somehow helped the horse to win.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm always leary when a jock meets the horse
Speaker 1: for the first time that week or something like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this guy knows the horse. And I've liked
Speaker 1: journalism early. And then when I saw that he had
Speaker 1: it in the Santa Anita and still dug in and
Speaker 1: as you said, came back and ran down a live horse,
Speaker 1: that that convinced.
Speaker 10: Me it's mental. You know, mental is very important in
Speaker 10: human athletics as well, you know, Michael Jordan, all the
Speaker 10: great athletes the ft century. Mental is very important. And
Speaker 10: so when a horse wants to win and when an
Speaker 10: issue like having to steady a little bit loose and
Speaker 10: momentum and doesn't stop a horse from meeting his challenge
Speaker 10: and knowing that he wants to be the best horse
Speaker 10: and extending his stride. It's fairly important, prickically, when you
Speaker 10: get into a twenty horse field what you're going to
Speaker 10: have on Saturday?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are you said you like sovereignty? Did the eighteen
Speaker 1: whole body you?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 10: That doesn't bother me. And my feeling about Salveergy coming
Speaker 10: into the race was he didn't need to win the
Speaker 10: Florida Derby. The horse that did win the race to
Speaker 10: Panstry did and unfortunately he's out third out with an
Speaker 10: injury before the entries were taken. So Sabergny just needed
Speaker 10: to finish second. He did that and before that in
Speaker 10: these two races, both again he experienced at Churchill Downs,
Speaker 10: which journalist does not have. Sovereignty won the Street Sense
Speaker 10: Stakes last October in the Street Cent Stakes and then
Speaker 10: in his first to start as a three year old
Speaker 10: in the Fountain He sovereignty showed a very great ability
Speaker 10: to respond when asked by the jockey, in this case
Speaker 10: Junior Alvarado, to really pick up a stride almost like
Speaker 10: a turf horse does to really speed up, and that's
Speaker 10: always important. When they get into that far turn they
Speaker 10: run about a mile and eighth. Most of the horses
Speaker 10: are starting to tire because they haven't run that far,
Speaker 10: just don't have it in them. And a horse has
Speaker 10: to extricate itself either movie matine traffic or going outside
Speaker 10: and losing ground but accelerating, and he does have that acceleration.
Speaker 10: My only concern was again looking at how fast he's run.
Speaker 10: His sea figures have been ninety nine nine ninety four
Speaker 10: and most of the horses and this race of broken hunters,
Speaker 10: I said one tens about average, so he may not
Speaker 10: be as fast. However that may be a function of
Speaker 10: the pace of those races he was if they weren't
Speaker 10: that fast. And this year's Derby Dick, we are going
Speaker 10: unless something crazy happens to have a very very fast
Speaker 10: paced And I write this in my article because Bob
Speaker 10: Baffert's Citizen Ball draws the rail last door knock threw
Speaker 10: the rail and that cost him because he got bumped
Speaker 10: and never got to leave. The Citizen Bowl has had
Speaker 10: the lead at the first quarter and a half mile
Speaker 10: and four races in a row. Just next to him
Speaker 10: is Neo Equos, who closed from second in the forty
Speaker 10: Derry ended up third, but his only win around two turns.
Speaker 10: I was trying to say his best race around two
Speaker 10: turns and he's only when this year came leading start
Speaker 10: to finish to posts. Outside of him is Rodriguez, another
Speaker 10: Baffort starter who's both wins have come leading from start
Speaker 10: to finish, including the Wood Memorial. Lucas has a horse
Speaker 10: in the five called American Promise who likes to run,
Speaker 10: of course, and then you have two on the outside,
Speaker 10: but one on the outside for sure in Over Almighty,
Speaker 10: who decided to run this race and his two wins
Speaker 10: have been wired a while. When he doesn't get the lead,
Speaker 10: he runs second round the tracker, he fades late. And
Speaker 10: one more thing really important not even telling people two
Speaker 10: weeks in this race, is that Sovereignties we mentioned you
Speaker 10: mentioned own my good Dolphin was good cheer, but they
Speaker 10: also have East Avenue in the race, and East Avenue
Speaker 10: made the lead in the Bluegrass Stakes, kept the lead
Speaker 10: all the way for the wire, looked like he was
Speaker 10: going to get beat and he fought on before he
Speaker 10: was passed the wire by Burnham Square. His other two
Speaker 10: wins have been wired to wire and he put blinkers
Speaker 10: onto that race. Blinkers for folks listening and don't know
Speaker 10: help horse to focus. They can't see as much behind us.
Speaker 10: They got to look ahead. You've got up to six
Speaker 10: horses here. They're gonna want to need the lead. And
Speaker 10: in my mind God Dolphin is not going to use
Speaker 10: East Avenue as sacrificial lamb. But they won't. I said
Speaker 10: they won't use it.
Speaker 5: They won't use it.
Speaker 10: But with his natural speed, it ends up serving that
Speaker 10: same purpose to make sure there's a fair pace for sovereignty.
Speaker 10: That same fair pace will benefit other closers as well.
Speaker 10: But there's going to be a really hot pace. And
Speaker 10: to be honest, I didn't like any of these horses
Speaker 10: at least as far as winter Place that have shown
Speaker 10: furry speed of these races. So that leads me to
Speaker 10: a couple others. And you asked me to be are
Speaker 10: I can just tell you there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well East Avenue by Badalia d'Oro that was a
Speaker 1: speed horse. So he comes by that quality honestly, But
Speaker 1: he's not going to be a rabbit right now.
Speaker 10: Well, I don't think there'll be a rabbit. Rabbit isn't intentional. Yeah,
Speaker 10: I think it's just going to happen. It's just gonna happen.
Speaker 10: But he doesn't need to now because there is a
Speaker 10: simple Neil Eclos Rodriguez American promise. Oh in Almighty, you've
Speaker 10: got enough, only two of me to go out there
Speaker 10: instead of really we saw two years in a row.
Speaker 10: I made a note in my article can Get Free
Speaker 10: about the Derby that the last two years we had
Speaker 10: a twenty two point ninety seven and forty six sixty
Speaker 10: three opening quarter and a half and those horses ended
Speaker 10: up eleventh, seventeenth, and fifteenth, and two years ago he
Speaker 10: had twenty two thirty five and forty seventy three and
Speaker 10: the four horses that were battling for the end up
Speaker 10: sixteenth and fourteen, thirteenth, and seventeenth. So this is why
Speaker 10: you don't want. You want what's coming from way behind, necessarily,
Speaker 10: But it's very difficult to pick horses who have only
Speaker 10: shown the desire to lead early in the race.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Rodriguez ran off of the wood, but
Speaker 1: he's not going to get a chance to do that here.
Speaker 10: Uh. And Bob Bafford has said Boub Bafford has said
Speaker 10: he's trained horses to come from behind. Maybe that's true,
Speaker 10: but you have to go with what's in their past
Speaker 10: performances and that's not the case so far.
Speaker 1: Anybody knows how to win a Derby, obviously it's Bob.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Whatever you think about Bob Bafford in terms of the
Speaker 1: marketing of the race and speaking to fans. Uh, he's
Speaker 1: good for the good for the sport, didn't.
Speaker 10: He Yeah, absolutely no, He definitely knows how to talk.
Speaker 10: He jokes. Him and Lucas are fantastic, you know, just
Speaker 10: just really ambassadors for the sport and it's really good.
Speaker 10: I do have one more horse I want to mention.
Speaker 10: This is one of the two horses that have been
Speaker 10: running in other countries.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 10: And his name is lux Or Cafe. Yeah. He ran
Speaker 10: his first five five six races in Japan. And the
Speaker 10: other is it was just appokes as admire Daytona who
Speaker 10: was actually bred in Japan, and he won the UAE
Speaker 10: Derby which last year is almost winner or Forever Young
Speaker 10: last year almost won the race coming out of the
Speaker 10: UA Derby. But Lusher Cafe is interesting one to me
Speaker 10: because he's a Kentucky bread.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 10: He was bred in Kentucky by American Pharaoh Criple Crown
Speaker 10: winner Cripple Crown and Grand Slam winner who won the
Speaker 10: Breedish Cup Classics. And he's out of a really good
Speaker 10: Mayor Mary's Folly was produced a horse named Royal Blessing
Speaker 10: and one two point six million, mostly on turf, but
Speaker 10: definitely a long distance horse. And I watched his races
Speaker 10: in Japan, two of them, and in those races it
Speaker 10: came from far back, came from seventh and one, came
Speaker 10: from sixth in the other, and he came from ninth
Speaker 10: in another post second. So he's another one that unless
Speaker 10: you you can find these races online, they're available. Unless
Speaker 10: you know you know what he's running, you think, oh,
Speaker 10: maybe not. And he's got speed figures that match up
Speaker 10: one O eight, one o five, one oh five with journalisms,
Speaker 10: but better than that, he's been training here, he's got
Speaker 10: the breeding, he's definitely got the running style to not
Speaker 10: be last but maybe eight to twelfth early and to
Speaker 10: make a late kick. And he could run really well
Speaker 10: at high out. I think he opened it fifteen to
Speaker 10: one ons.
Speaker 1: Yep, he's going to be in my exotics I can
Speaker 1: tell you that, and good here American pharaoh being his daddy,
Speaker 1: that that counts a lot. If you ask men, can
Speaker 1: you imagine Elis if a horse they're calling this a
Speaker 1: Japanese horse, which as you said, technically he's not, but
Speaker 1: raced through Japan. If a horse that raced through Japan
Speaker 1: wins this, can you imagine what the reaction is going
Speaker 1: to be like in Japan.
Speaker 5: Oh, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 10: But you know the Japanese program. If you watch the
Speaker 10: races at May Dawn, that you buy a World Cup
Speaker 10: with thirty million dollars in racist the last year's and
Speaker 10: also the Breeders' Cup turf races the last year years.
Speaker 10: The Japanese breeding and training program is one of the
Speaker 10: best in the world and they've been showing up on
Speaker 10: the world stage. So yes, this is going to be
Speaker 10: a First of all, he's going to be extremely heavily
Speaker 10: bet with Japanese fans, and second of all that they'll
Speaker 10: go crazy. And Mayer Daytona as well, who's also a
Speaker 10: nice question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but he beat ad Meyer Daytona right a.
Speaker 10: Couple Yes, he did. The only time they ran. He
Speaker 10: ran in November of twenty twenty four and he also
Speaker 10: beat him in February of this year, and then the
Speaker 10: Mayor Daytona went to the UAE Derby and won that
Speaker 10: one in less of a field, but he did it
Speaker 10: pretty important. He went wired to wire in that race.
Speaker 10: But before that you close. So Luxo Cafe definitely is
Speaker 10: the kind of work that fits on every level in
Speaker 10: my money, chicks, when you say he checks all the boxes.
Speaker 1: There you go tell everybody how to read your writings
Speaker 1: and the.
Speaker 10: Best way to follow you well, as you said, you
Speaker 10: can follow me on Twitter, slash exsit uber capper, on
Speaker 10: blue sky at uber kapper, as well on threads at
Speaker 10: uber caper one and and you can just google my
Speaker 10: name Elis Star like you said, American Best Racing and
Speaker 10: Echo Base. We have the Derby Race of the Week
Speaker 10: which is about two thousand words this year covering a
Speaker 10: lot of different analysis of the race. And from there
Speaker 10: you can if you want, you can get full cards
Speaker 10: selections for all thirteen races Friday and fourteenth Saturday for
Speaker 10: a small fee. But I'll be posting about some of
Speaker 10: them as well, and hopefully that's the way you can
Speaker 10: find me. We'll have a great day this bookcase on
Speaker 10: Friday and Saturday, folks.
Speaker 1: I recommend it. He can help you make money and
Speaker 1: have more fun that way. Ellis, thanks, have a great weekend.
Speaker 10: Hey, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: And you know that's not hyperble either. I have made
Speaker 1: money on more than one occasion with Elis's picket a day.
Speaker 1: It might have been at a Kentucky track, might have
Speaker 1: been at Woodbine up in Toronto, but his picket a
Speaker 1: day is usually pretty solid. When we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: talk more about Larry Johnson, the late Wildcat who just
Speaker 1: passed here on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to the
Speaker 1: Big Blue Insider, joined now by former Wildcat well once
Speaker 1: a while kid, always a while kid, Maryon Haskins, who
Speaker 1: played alongside Larry Johnson for a few years at Kentucky.
Speaker 1: A fellow Western Kentucky and Marion, and I know you
Speaker 1: hated to lose your teammate, didn't you.
Speaker 5: I really hated to lose my teammate, you know when
Speaker 5: all this was happening. You know, I try to be
Speaker 5: there as much as I could. Larry and I we
Speaker 5: first met in Sharon, Pennsylvania at the Sharon, Pennsylvania High
Speaker 5: School tournaments. There in nineteen the spring of nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 5: So from there, Larry and I played at that All
Speaker 5: Star Game and we played in a Dayton Classic there
Speaker 5: in Dayton, Ohio, and we became really good friends those
Speaker 5: two tournaments, and then it was tied for being recruited,
Speaker 5: and we were just comparing our notes and whatnot, and
Speaker 5: we ended up being to the Kentucky as our favorite school.
Speaker 1: When so, when you guys run the All Star Games,
Speaker 1: you hadn't chosen UK yet.
Speaker 5: No, we had not. Wow, we had not told you.
Speaker 5: We both was unsigned at that time.
Speaker 1: So when you talked, what did you talk about? Not
Speaker 1: just UK but other schools that were probably looking at
Speaker 1: both of you. But what was that like when you
Speaker 1: sat down and chatted.
Speaker 5: Well, we it was mostly about the coaches, it appears
Speaker 5: to me and my memory. It was about the coaches,
Speaker 5: the head coach and the assistant coaches, and it was
Speaker 5: mostly about about those kinds of things. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: we didn't know a lot because you know, back then
Speaker 5: it was no Internet. There was not a lot of
Speaker 5: information about the teams. You know, back then, I remember
Speaker 5: Kentucky were only play of the layed cast at eleven
Speaker 5: o'clock at night, and they was fortunate to have bad
Speaker 5: and because at that time not to Day was the
Speaker 5: only shood I remember that had at a live game,
Speaker 5: so that was important to be able to see those games.
Speaker 5: But didn't know a lot about the teams and stuff,
Speaker 5: you know, just get unless you watch them. You just
Speaker 5: didn't know if it makes you was not there, so
Speaker 5: I knew, and we knew that we were pretty daggone
Speaker 5: good players, you know, from playing in the All Star
Speaker 5: against comparag a lot of these kids. They had a
Speaker 5: whole lot of credentials prep all Americans and all this stuff.
Speaker 5: And I mean we played right with him and even
Speaker 5: played a little bit better.
Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, oh yeah. And when you saw Larry play,
Speaker 1: was it pretty evident right away that you know? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's such a great defender and ball handler. I guess
Speaker 1: that was pretty evident when he was a high school senior.
Speaker 5: Let me tell you, I grew up on a small farm,
Speaker 5: bill cows through hey cut tobacco, and Larry probably did
Speaker 5: some of the similar things. We were farm strong young men.
Speaker 5: And when I met this guy and I tried to
Speaker 5: guard this guy, and I tried to push him around,
Speaker 5: I said, my god, I said, he is not from downtown,
Speaker 5: some big city. This guy is stronger than offense. I mean,
Speaker 5: he was just as tough as I've ever played against.
Speaker 5: So man, I knew then, I said, man, just to
Speaker 5: be a great teammate.
Speaker 1: Well, and because you were both like what football coaches
Speaker 1: like to call country strong or farm strong. And yes,
Speaker 1: the way you played basketball, Joe Hall appreciated that, no end,
Speaker 1: didn't he exactly.
Speaker 5: He appreciated, you know, we were mentally tough. So I
Speaker 5: didn't weigh be one hundred and ninety two or three
Speaker 5: pounds then learned anyway, it was about one hundred about
Speaker 5: the same. But man, let me tell you, we were
Speaker 5: strong and did not back down from nobody. And he
Speaker 5: was the same boy. He was just as tough as
Speaker 5: the other one and just a great person.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well he had that million watch smile,
Speaker 1: didn't he.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's my always was a happy guy. I never
Speaker 5: saw him in a sad moment, and even in his
Speaker 5: last few days, you know, he was still happy, and
Speaker 5: so he couldn't do much talking. But I would say
Speaker 5: some things that that happened in the past, and he
Speaker 5: made them alive. Man, he make them alive. Yeah.
Speaker 1: People don't realize how great a player Larry was. First
Speaker 1: of all in college, right, and then when he went
Speaker 1: on to Japan, played a year in the NBA, but
Speaker 1: went on to Japan, and he was almost a legend
Speaker 1: over there, wasn't he.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, I see Larne played there at least I
Speaker 5: want to think fifteen years. Yeah, about fifteen years, I think.
Speaker 5: I think they're in Japan and you know, you've done
Speaker 5: a great job there and whatnot, because you know, he
Speaker 5: drafted and he played for a season, a few seasons
Speaker 5: in the NBA. Ye oh yeah, and we still were
Speaker 5: made friends, you know. I mean was talking about going
Speaker 5: overseas to play, and that was an interesting conversation.
Speaker 1: Did you ever go overseas?
Speaker 5: No, I didn't go. Larry got invited to go to
Speaker 5: Italy and Larry did a packing seal says that if
Speaker 5: I go, I got a brain Marinhattan. Yeah, and they
Speaker 5: said he can come, but we're not gonna pay its
Speaker 5: way until they make the team. Well, you know, back
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy seven, you know seven eight earline was
Speaker 5: a lot of Moneyeah, buddy, And if I got there,
Speaker 5: I tell Larry, I suppose I same my ankle the
Speaker 5: first day. Yeah, you know, so I didn't have to go,
Speaker 5: you know, but it was it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know I tell people this and and again,
Speaker 1: not a knock on Kyle Macy or anybody else, but
Speaker 1: that's seventy seventeam with Larry at the point. That team
Speaker 1: just destroyed people. Seventy eight team. I always taying a
Speaker 1: toy with teams before they put them away because they
Speaker 1: knew how good they were. Man, that seventy seven team,
Speaker 1: I always say it was like a kid with a
Speaker 1: new toy and absolutely shredded teams and you know, just
Speaker 1: some tough luck is why it ended up in the
Speaker 1: East Regional and not playing at home in rep Arena
Speaker 1: in the midies. Otherwise Joe b has another title.
Speaker 5: Right, Hey, we should have had the years I played
Speaker 5: three out of four years. Yeah, easily, easily could have
Speaker 5: had three out of four. You know that team. I mean,
Speaker 5: even the guys on the seventy eighteen they would say
Speaker 5: the same thing, the seventy seventeen what's much deeper deeper?
Speaker 5: And well we had a you know, we had a
Speaker 5: tart tart of there to go by, and we were
Speaker 5: just like Bird team. But I'll tell you something that
Speaker 5: John was after he retired that year, he came back
Speaker 5: and he watched us practice there in uh, Pennsylvania, I
Speaker 5: think it was there. And he came over to us
Speaker 5: and were sitting down on the bench, and and I
Speaker 5: remember he lived at Joe Hall. He said, Joe, I
Speaker 5: want to tell you something here. He said, you got
Speaker 5: a great team. He said, but my best team never
Speaker 5: won the NCAA championship. No, wait a minute, where's the
Speaker 5: guy nine championships? Nine of me? Right?
Speaker 1: I had ten?
Speaker 5: Okay either, And he said, my best team never won
Speaker 5: the time. Now that's deep. That's really deep.
Speaker 1: One which one did he think? Was it seventy fourteen?
Speaker 5: He never said, Yeah, I was. We can't understand. I
Speaker 5: was listening in.
Speaker 3: I couldn't know.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that story. Man. I wish I could
Speaker 1: ask Joe B that question.
Speaker 5: That that he was talking there. He talked to the
Speaker 5: team about you know, winning and tradition and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: and on sort of the sidebar conversation he was done
Speaker 5: with a few kind of saying there kit chatting with
Speaker 5: Joe B and uh. And of course, you know, I
Speaker 5: was always kind of comforted by Joe Hall anyway, and
Speaker 5: I hear him say that, and I was like, oh
Speaker 5: my god. Yeah, And you know, at that time it
Speaker 5: didn't mean a lot to me, But now I got
Speaker 5: a much more matured person that was really strong, really deep,
Speaker 5: you know, and now I think team what should have
Speaker 5: been that didn't win it? Now, you know, I'm sure
Speaker 5: he had a lot of things that went into the team,
Speaker 5: not just you know, win losses and stuff like that. Problem.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking to Mary and Askins. He was a basketball
Speaker 1: wildcat back in the seventies and a teammate of Larry Johnson.
Speaker 1: We lost this week, and Larry was a great leader.
Speaker 1: You're a great defender. We were talking Tom Leach and
Speaker 1: I were talking about that n I T. Larry had
Speaker 1: a great NI T when you guys wanted up in
Speaker 1: New York in seventy six, And course Reggie and I
Speaker 1: talked about Larry taking the ball and going the link
Speaker 1: to the floor for a layup that beat the buzzer
Speaker 1: against Providence. What do you remember about that?
Speaker 5: I was just so elated. I don't remember all of
Speaker 5: the details. Yeah, the day, but that was a great tournament.
Speaker 5: I mean the NI T that year was fantastic. We
Speaker 5: had some great wins, We had some things to prove,
Speaker 5: you know, to our hands that you know, we had
Speaker 5: a tough season, but we can't. I think we end
Speaker 5: fifty fifty that year or something like that. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: Joe's Hall looked at us and said, I'm not going
Speaker 5: to be a losing coach and we're not team. And
Speaker 5: we made sure that we didn't do that.
Speaker 1: You were ten ten at one point, that's right, and
Speaker 1: you won five straight and you got the n I
Speaker 1: T bid and then in the last you played in
Speaker 1: the last regular season game in Memorial Coliseum and y'all
Speaker 1: damn near lusted, but somehow got it into overtime and won.
Speaker 1: The Missisippi State kids run the radio saying, hey, mom,
Speaker 1: we beat Kentucky.
Speaker 5: Man, that history is unbelievable in it. I'm telling you,
Speaker 5: I thought we couldn't lose this game here. It's no way.
Speaker 5: But man, I tell you we didn't. We didn't play well. No,
Speaker 5: we some kind of way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jack got hot down the stretch.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: That happened a lot though, didn't it.
Speaker 3: Jack get that hot?
Speaker 1: That was also a period of time. It was I
Speaker 1: think the Vanderbilt game and Reggie Warford was throwing the
Speaker 1: ball in bounds and actually threw it into the opposite basket.
Speaker 1: Didn't count as a bucket, but it was quite a highlight.
Speaker 5: Highlight. Yeah, and you remember what what Joe b did
Speaker 5: at halftime? Who started the second half.
Speaker 10: Game?
Speaker 5: No debanded game?
Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't remember.
Speaker 5: I think you looked at the record. I think it
Speaker 5: was all reserved. Guys. Wow, that started the game, as
Speaker 5: I recall. Wow, But or it might have been no
Speaker 5: first minute you took it back.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when he subbed at halftime of the Florida
Speaker 1: State game in the seventy eight tournament, that wasn't the
Speaker 1: first time he did that, was it?
Speaker 10: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: He was a tough guy, wasn't he. That's why you
Speaker 1: guys were perfect for him.
Speaker 5: Well, you know we were tough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know what else? He loved, Marion. He loved
Speaker 1: that you were Kentucky kids. That was really important to him.
Speaker 5: Well that's okay. He never said that, you know, couldn't Joel.
Speaker 5: He didn't give you a whole lot of accolades. No,
Speaker 5: but yeah, you know, he was just well, it was
Speaker 5: the era that he grew up in to the era
Speaker 5: because I had some bosses and my job that worked
Speaker 5: on they were just mentally tough, Yeah, tough, and that's
Speaker 5: what they had to be. They were coming off of
Speaker 5: you know, the World War One babies and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: so they had to be mentally tough people and they were.
Speaker 1: And you guys had to be tough because and you
Speaker 1: and I have talked about this before, and we talked
Speaker 1: about it for the documentary we did on Reggie that
Speaker 1: you were among the earliest African Americans to play at Kentucky.
Speaker 1: You know, Tom Pan had coming gone, but Reggie was
Speaker 1: kind of paving the way and he reached out to
Speaker 1: you guys and said, I need you here U exactly.
Speaker 1: But those were bonds. Those were unbreakable bonds.
Speaker 5: Weren't they They were They were bonds that that never
Speaker 5: will be broken. And you know, and I always with
Speaker 5: tease Larry. You know, you know I was the third
Speaker 5: because I remember the day that I find here in
Speaker 5: Kentucky at my mom and dad's house. Uh, we called
Speaker 5: Larry and I said, Larry, I signed a piece of paper.
Speaker 5: I said I'm number three. As you carry up, it's
Speaker 5: gonna be number four. So I remember Joe and Dickie
Speaker 5: and the crowd. They went straight to Morganfield and Larry.
Speaker 5: They called me the not the next day I can
Speaker 5: remember now, and said, well we got Larry too.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 5: But oh and and I think, you know, I look
Speaker 5: back at history and the people that we recruited during
Speaker 5: the time that it wasn't very popular down you know,
Speaker 5: a lot of Nardis on the team that they were
Speaker 5: choosing the caliber a person that would represent the university,
Speaker 5: you know. So and it all worked out well. You know,
Speaker 5: we got guys in Colorado, Labron, We we got to
Speaker 5: get guys from from Ohio, Florida. They came in from everywhere,
Speaker 5: you know, and they were just great guys. And he's
Speaker 5: still all great guys, you know, guys who so but
Speaker 5: but but they were doing the right thing when they
Speaker 5: laid the groundwork. They put the foundation down, you know,
Speaker 5: for other coaches in another place to build.
Speaker 1: All Marian, it's always great talking to you. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: we had to do it under such a sad conditions,
Speaker 1: but I was glad to see you at the reunion
Speaker 1: weekend earlier this year. Hope to see you again soon,
Speaker 1: my friend. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: All Right, Dick. I appreciate you give me a call.
Speaker 1: Marion Haskins, a basketball wildcat back in the mid seventies
Speaker 1: and a teammate of the late Larry Johnson. We'll come
Speaker 1: back and wrap this up in just a minute on
Speaker 1: six thirty WLAP Welcome back time for a quick segment.
Speaker 1: My thanks to Marion Haskins, along with my other guess,
Speaker 1: Tom Leach and Ellis Starr. I really loved talking to
Speaker 1: Marion because he played varsity ball for four years. You know,
Speaker 1: he was allowed, but they still had a freshman team
Speaker 1: and I covered freshman basketball when I was a freshman
Speaker 1: at Kentucky, and Marian was actually the best player on
Speaker 1: the freshman team. He played in two varsity games that year,
Speaker 1: and then the following three seasons played in virtually every game,
Speaker 1: so you know, he was a sub coming off the bench.
Speaker 1: But Joe b liked playing him because he was a
Speaker 1: tough guy and a solid defender. And Marion made some
Speaker 1: big plays through his career. He only scored one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty four points for his career, but he was
Speaker 1: one of those guys who dug in and did the
Speaker 1: dirty work. And I really enjoy talking to him because
Speaker 1: It just takes me back to a time when you know,
Speaker 1: they were playing varsity games in Memorial Coliseum and we
Speaker 1: were all much much younger. But he was a star
Speaker 1: at Taylor County in Campbellsville, the brother of Clem Haskins
Speaker 1: and one of these guys at Kentucky and it was
Speaker 1: a good kid air quotes which Joe B. Hall loved
Speaker 1: and knew he needed and wanted in his program, and
Speaker 1: he was really getting things started as a head coach.
Speaker 1: My thanks again to Marry and condolences to friends and
Speaker 1: family of Larry Johnson. Tomorrow night at Kentucky Baseball, we'll
Speaker 1: be with you for a little while. It's a seven
Speaker 1: o'clock start at Mississippi State. Darren's pregame begins at six
Speaker 1: forty five, so we'll be with you up until that point.
Speaker 1: It's a Mississippi State team that might be in disarray
Speaker 1: or might be playing inspired baseball because Ad just fired
Speaker 1: the head coach, and Darren we'll talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that. Of course, Nick Minngione going back to where
Speaker 1: he was an assistant coach, and rumors are, oh, they're
Speaker 1: gonna interview Nick. Naw, he'll stay a Kentucky that's the
Speaker 1: way I see it. So anyhow, we'll have it for
Speaker 1: you right here, and we'll have some derby doings just
Speaker 1: before that. Thanks so much for joining us. That said,
Speaker 1: good night from the garage and lexingon do.
Speaker 4: You understand the worst that are coming out of my mind?
Speaker 11: Step taken showing can.
Speaker 4: Anything? Then back.
Speaker 11: To taunt Tom likes it, dont donting to the us