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Speaker 1: You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership

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Speaker 2: Well, it is Saturday, and it is Wrestling Night in America,

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the Summer Slam post show for night one, and I

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am Pro Wrestling Towards columnist Greg Parks here with you

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to walk you through all the results of Night one.

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And if you're watching live on YouTube, you're obviously in

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for a treat because I am not dressed the way

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that I normally dressed for these occasions. But it is

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a hint if you're wondering whom I co host is,

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because if you've seen him on these post shows, you

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know that he has a certain flare about him, and

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so let me bring him aboard. It is Peter w

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torch dot Com contributor Derek Howard. Derek, I thought coming

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on here that you were you were going to put

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me to shame and maybe we should have a poll

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on Peter W.

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Speaker 3: Torch.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we should get waid to run a poll of

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who wore it better.

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Speaker 4: But because.

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Speaker 2: That's what he's saying, that would that would maybe be

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a more fair comparison, uh than than the other than

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the outfit. But I wanted to get in in form

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with my co host, you know, I like to be

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you know, one with my co host on these shows,

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and so here we are. I'm trying to fit in

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a little bit. If you're not watching on YouTube by

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the way, and if you're listening after the fact, uh

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via p members of Peter B Torch dot com listening

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at free boy, are you missing out on this? So

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I'll just I'll just direct you to the YouTube post

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show to get this, to get this dose of masculinity.

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I guess I always say so, Greg, I've.

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Speaker 4: Always said that one of the key components of a

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really good tag team is they have to have matching gear.

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That's true, we have to have a matching look. So

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the fact that we have like matching looks and matching gear,

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I think we are in a plus tag team, right.

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Speaker 2: I like it. We'll see how that works for the show. Tonight.

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So again this is the Summer Slam post show. We

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welcome your comments on the on the comment section of

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YouTube as we are going live here and let me

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get some more plugs. And Derek, I know you did

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the written report at PW torch dot com tonight for SummerSlam,

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so I hope people check that out. I'll do the

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plugs later. What the heck, We'll get to that another

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time because let's jump right into SummerSlam Night one. I

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thought just kind of big picture, Derek is I like

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to start off these post shows just kind of a

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big picture discussion of the show. I thought it was positive.

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I thought it was a good show, up and down

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the card, six matches. They got it in in about

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three hours. You know, I was on the aw post

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show last week for those who didn't see that redemption,

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and you know they started an hour earlier but basically

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the same end time for that show, and you know,

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it felt long that show did Not to say it

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wasn't good, because I thought it was, but there's something

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to be said for a good show and a shorter show,

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which this was. So first of all, Derek, you you're

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kind of overarching thoughts on night one of SummerSlam.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've kind of stepped back when I do my

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initial grade of anything, and I just say it's the

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three e's. Was I entertained, did I enjoy it? And

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was I engaged? And that's a lot easier on a

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three hour show. And I can say with all three

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of those ease check, check, check, which means it's always

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going to be at least the thumbs in the middle show.

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And I think that action and the pacing was good

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enough that I would tilt my thumb to a thumb

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up show for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was a thumbs up too. And

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we've got some folks in the chat talking about the commercials,

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Jay Scooby saying these commercials just kill the vibe of

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Summer Slim in any other pay per view.

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Speaker 4: I'm a little bit jaded on that because I'm writing

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the report that I actually enjoyed the time in between

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the matches because it allows me to gather my thoughts

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and then type them down and do some editing. So

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I do think that that Jade's like it goes by

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super fast for me because there is no wait time.

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But I can understand if you were confined to your

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couch for that. What do you think in between matches tonight?

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Was it like probably? It seemed like the first few

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they got in and out pretty quick, and then there

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was definitely a slow down between the women, six man

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tag Cody, Cody and Punk and then the final Helen

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to sell. But I thought that was kind of appropriate

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for it kind of allows the audience to come down

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and then they build them back up during the match. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, as someone who covered SmackDown in real time

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for ten years for pw Torch dot com, the commercials

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were my opportunity to put my analysis in there, you know,

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as you said, do some editing, make sure I didn't

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make any major errors, and then kind of really, I mean,

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upload it to the site, because you have to do

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that when you have the opportunity. As well, Vinnie Saying

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agreed what happened to video hype packages and backstage segments.

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They don't pay the bills the way ads do, so

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that's just kind of a part and parcel with the

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WWE product these days. And there was somebody, I think

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somebody said the commercials weren't too bad. I think Sean,

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who is also on standby here to jump in with

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us saying it wasn't bad tonight, but yeah, I mean

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it kind of feels like there should be a happy

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medium between how ADEW presents their shows and how WWE

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presents their shows.

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Speaker 4: I agree, yeah, and I do think like the point

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that definitely, I think for most fans, including myself who's

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a little more tolerant, where I was just like it's

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way too much was WrestleMania Night one. I do think

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they have pulled back somewhat significantly since that is something

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that's more realistic to engage the audience for three hours

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while still feeling that you got enough time with the

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in ring action, where I didn't think any match went

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short tonight, where I'm like they could have used five

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more minutes, I thought everything got the appropriate amount of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that was I think that may have been

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a product of the first hour not being on ESPN

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as it has been for the last couple of shows.

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That's often been blamed as the culprit for those matches

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going short is the first hour being on ESPN. We

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didn't have that tonight. Sadler in the Chest says, I

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think the show was solid, but people hate WWE right now,

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so they'll bash every show they I do most of

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the WWETV shows deserve criticism this year, but I like

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this show. Does that ring true to you in terms

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of the criticism that WWE has been getting and does

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it deserve for their weekly product?

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Speaker 4: Well with I fill this with Sadler and it's hard

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to step back as a wrestling fan. But in life

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there's positive momentum where if there's positive momentum, even when

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something's not as good, you'll treat it as good because

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you feel there's like a buzz about it. And then

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there is something called negative momentum as well. And I

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think some of the steps that WWE has taken in

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in the last I think it's during the scenea run

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has created some negative momentum where now they are swimming

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against the current to give favorable fan response in this forum,

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which is more of an Internet friendly hardcore wrestling fan audience.

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Speaker 2: YEA one thing that jumps out to me from the

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chat And again we'll get into the blow by blow

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match my match as we go through this year. But

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an interesting choice. I thought that Obafemi versus brock Lesner

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closed the show over Cody Roads versus c Himpunk and

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Vinnie in the chat says Cody versus Punk should have

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made evented. You know, I understand from the perspective of

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WWE wanting to make a new star in Obam and

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really wanting to pull all the levers they can to

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make him appear as the new star and putting him

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inside Helen Cell against brock Lesner, closing Summer Slam Night

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one with that match with brock Lesner not only putting

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over Oba Feme in the rain during the match, but

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also putting him over on the mic after the match

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as a way to kind of close this show. The

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last thing fans see, the last thing fans think of.

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That's really the only argument I think I could make

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as to putting Obafemi versus brock Lessner on last over

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in undisputed WWE title match. Sometimes sometimes you see the

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match order and it seems kind of funky, and then

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you watch it play out and in hindsight you can

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understand why they did that. Yeah, in hindsight, I think

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they could have put Rose versus Punk on list. I

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don't think there was anything done in that match that

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would have prevented it from going on last. So with

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the hindsight that we have here. Do you believe it

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was the right choice to put Lesnar versus Eemi on last?

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Speaker 4: I do, and I'll tell you why in adding to

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what you said, which I do agree with wanting to

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kind of kind of you know, post at the top

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of your car that Oba's our next guy. Right when

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I saw there was something posted online and it said

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that Cody and Punk were not going to main event,

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And the first thing that came to my mind is

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non conclusive finish where you don't know who the best

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man was at the end, and that was what we

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had Forrton came in, he hits the Rko, Ceampunk wins

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the match. But do we really know that Cam Punk

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is better than Cody Rhodes. We don't, right, And for

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some people maybe that's a happy but for me, that's

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not a happy ending. And I think they learned a

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lesson from WrestleMania Night one where WrestleMania Night one they

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had anything but a happy ending. Cody wins in a

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match that doesn't make anybody feel good about it, and

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then Randy beats the hell out of him, and everyone

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if they were cheering for Cody, well, Cody won, but

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then he got beat up, and then the people who

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didn't want Cody to win, well, Cody won anyways, but

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he still got beat up. So nobody felt good about

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the ending of Night one, and I do think that

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that left a scar on WWE, which I believe this

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could have been a last minute change where they looked

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at what their finish was for the title match and

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they're like, a, I don't know if this is going

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to make make the fans in the arena satisfied and

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the ones who don't have tickets tonight to maybe they're

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not going to buy tickets tonight too, and maybe a

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lot of people aren't going to decide to not watch

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Night two. And I think they learned their lesson, and

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I do think that this was the best decision, though

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I will say I was interested when Randy came out,

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he hits the RKO on Cody and the fans cheer,

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and they didn't treat cm Punk's win like it was

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a fluke. They were still puzzling after it, so I

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don't think it caused the amount of letdown that they

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anticipated that it would cause. But having the happy ending

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at the end, where it sounds weird to say, two

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meaty Big jacked guys and saying we can be friends.

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Now that's about Its like happy of an ending that

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you get in pro wrestling, and it is like feel good.

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I feel good about Oba, and do you feel good

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about Brock? Because I feel good about Brock, which makes

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me in turn feel good about WWE. So I think

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they accomplish that goal by changing the match order.

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Speaker 2: And Sadlers says, I think WWE titles should always made

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an event, but after watching the post match of Oba Brock,

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it was clear the biggest mission of the show is

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making Oba the next top star. Yeah, that came across

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very clear to me and I think to a lot

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of other people. Another comment in the chat they had

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to put that on last as they plan to take

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the ring apart. I mean that's the point as well.

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And then Randy Orton run in would have hurt the

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main event, which I think is kind of what you

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were saying Derek as well last Framazon in the chat.

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So let's go through this match by match, then we'll

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bring Sean on it to add his comments here as

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we go. Match number one was Live Morgan over Eosky

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Women's World title match. I thought this was a really

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good opener. One of the things I noted on social

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media is Eosky is a big stadium wrestler. You know

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how some people, some people can't meet the moment in

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their ring in terms of wrestling in front of not

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just that size, but we know what happens when a

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lot of people get into a space that size, where

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the sounder just kind of goes up, and sometimes it

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doesn't connect with the wrestlers, it doesn't connect with the

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audience at home. But Sky is just she has that.

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She plays to the cheap seats, I guess, is what

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I'm trying to say, and she does a really good

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job of that. Just a really fun opener. I thought

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the way the match was progressing that Eosky might walk

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away the victor here, but instead live Morgan retains the

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women's world title here. I talked about this with Wade

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Keller on the Flagship this week when I was previewing

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SummerSlam with him. You know, it's very clear that WWE

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holds Live Morgan in much higher esteem than I do,

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and then some others do. But you know, I think

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she is her character is ahead of her in ring.

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But I think there's also intriguing stuff going on with

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her in Roxane Perez Her and rock Kel Rodriguez that

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eventually could combust at some point down the line. Whether

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she's champion at that point or not, I'm not sure,

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But talk a little bit about your thoughts on Live Morgan,

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just kind of as a wrestler versus as a character,

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and then this match itself.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions

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Speaker 4: Well, the piggyback on your comments about EO first, because

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I completely agree with you and the way it was

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always taught to me when I was wrestling is you

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00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,399
want to panamimee, and when you panamimee, you got to

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sell up with your chin up the whole time because

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all of those people they are looking at your level

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00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,519
and you are appealing to them, and some people you

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00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,360
tell them that and it just looks phony, right, you

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00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:17,679
can tell that that's what they're trying to do. She

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00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:20,120
does it in an authentic way where it just feels natural,

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00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,240
like she's getting hyped up, which makes them hyped up,

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which makes the match feel more energetic, and it comes

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00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:29,440
across so natural. But as for your comment on Live,

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00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,600
I kind of look at Live this way for the

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00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:36,080
last ten years. I think it's been about ten years.

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00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:39,240
I've always been surprised that she's got so many chances

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00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,960
when other people have got cut or they've got left behind,

320
00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,919
or they've seen themselves fall down the card. But it

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00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,679
was interesting she's gotten so many chances, but then when

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00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,159
she gets the main chance to win the Royal Rumble

323
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,360
and go on to WrestleMania, she hasn't got a chance

324
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,440
to prove she's a credible wrestler yet. And we started

325
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,039
seeing some improvement last year, and then she got injured

326
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,480
and she went away, and I thought, when she wins

327
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,480
the title, she'll be able to prove her credibility by

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00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:10,880
having a really good, long match with Stephanie, and then

329
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,119
at WrestleMania, they just had seven or eight minutes. She

330
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,200
didn't really get approved much. And then since then she

331
00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:19,039
hasn't had any title defenses, and she's only had one

332
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,039
match where she's got the opportunity to put in the

333
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,720
time to prove that she's Her wrestling ability is starting

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00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:30,920
to catch up and maybe reach or exceed her character ability,

335
00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:33,440
and tonight I think was the best indicator of that.

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00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:36,079
Because you can say a lot about the energy of

337
00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:39,400
the EO brought to the match, but the execution. Live

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00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:42,119
was just as much on the execution, if not cleaner,

339
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,480
because EO had a few slip ups. She tried to

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00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:46,599
do her through the rope thing and she got caught up,

341
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,440
but she just seamlessly goes through it where it doesn't

342
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,279
really miss a beat. But Live with everything tonight, timing, character,

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00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:59,200
the moments between the moves, everything, she was just on point,

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00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,960
and she doesn't have that flashy audience where the audience

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00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,519
is like, oh, she hit the Spanish Fly. Yeah, but

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00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:06,880
she took the Spanish Fly and she made it look

347
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,400
really good. And yeah, she didn't hit the Sunset flip

348
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,559
power bomb to the outside of the ring, but she

349
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,799
took a hell of a bump on that Sunset flip

350
00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:17,279
power bomb to the outside of the ring, and so

351
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,200
I thought she did great and it was probably my

352
00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:23,799
favorite match. I love the energy level too. It The

353
00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:26,920
one thing that kills me sometimes about WWE shows is

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00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,480
you'll have a slow build match and then it's followed

355
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,759
by a slow build match, and I think some of

356
00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:33,880
the most important thing you can do is just change

357
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,559
the tempo from match to match, because then you don't

358
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:40,440
know what to expect. And this one felt very lively

359
00:18:40,519 --> 00:18:42,839
to me the entire time, and it was probably my

360
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:43,960
favorite match on the show.

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Speaker 2: I think it's in the conversation for best match of

362
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,240
the night. In fact, some people in chat have agreed

363
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:51,160
with that. Sadler says, I thought the opener was the

364
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,920
match of the night. You know, hard for me to

365
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,799
disagree with that. Another comment by Sadler EOSO always great

366
00:18:58,839 --> 00:19:00,880
in ring, and for Live, these are the matches she

367
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,559
needs to solidify herself as a legend in the women's division.

368
00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:09,200
Bob says, why does Live get a selective defense mode

369
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,799
like handpicked or when she has to defend it? Why

370
00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:15,599
this special treatment? I mean, again, if you're someone that

371
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,000
WWE is looking at as a big star, potentially a

372
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,079
crossover star maybe in fact, then that's just the way

373
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:25,880
it works. I mean that's the way any business, any

374
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,240
thing like WWE is going to work. Pile Driver Peak says,

375
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:32,480
I'm a huge EO fan. Live is met to me.

376
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:35,279
I think they mentioned this was the first title defense

377
00:19:35,519 --> 00:19:40,160
since April by Live Morgan, which is its wild. First

378
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,880
of all, that that's true, it's wild also that you

379
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,319
would point that out on television.

380
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,599
Speaker 4: Like, well, I'm glad they're not running from it though,

381
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:48,839
you know, like if you run.

382
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,519
Speaker 2: But I think that invites that invites questions from the

383
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:54,400
fans like why is that? Why do some wrestlers they're

384
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,119
injured for a month have to drop the title yet

385
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,200
it's been three months since she's defended it and she's

386
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,039
on TV every.

387
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,599
Speaker 4: I do think it's different though. If it was a

388
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,079
babyface champion and they hadn't defended the title since April,

389
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,279
that completely undercuts them. But with Lip's character, it makes

390
00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:13,960
them look bad more than it makes her look bad.

391
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,079
If that makes sense. It makes sense. But yeah, it

392
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,559
was definitely and I do I do give them a little,

393
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,119
at least a little leeway because I know they had

394
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,400
a plan with Stephanie Vauquier that fell through because of

395
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:28,559
uncertainty and then it was diagnosed an injury, so they

396
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,640
couldn't have the defense they wanted to in those first

397
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:32,720
four weeks.

398
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 2: Well, we are one match into the SummerSlam post sho

399
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,200
If you're just tuning in, I am for Wrestling Torchcom

400
00:20:38,279 --> 00:20:41,039
with Greg Parks joined by PW torch dot Com contributor

401
00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:43,400
Derek Hoverard, and this is the SummerSlam Night one post

402
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,400
show here on PTERW torch dot com and the PW

403
00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:49,359
Torch YouTube page if you're watching on YouTube. First of all,

404
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160
welcome hello. If you're interested in getting a VP membership

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to PW torch dot com. Maybe you like what we're saying,

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maybe you like how we look. I don't know, but

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And speaking of Wade, he is right here on YouTube

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418
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want to be part of the show, you can type

420
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your questions into the chat. We'll discuss them live if

421
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:44,279
they are particularly interesting. More plugs to come, but we'll

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00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:46,359
stop right there to get to match number two.

423
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Speaker 4: One more thing on match number one too, Ahady, is

424
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,680
I'd like the fact that the interference came minutes before

425
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,440
the finish, yeah, because it wasn't a credibility killer for Live.

426
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,200
And I think the next step that's really important that

427
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,759
I want them to get to quickly is the Judgment

428
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:09,920
Day has had dissension without a break for way too long,

429
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,319
and I think like Live's next step needs to be

430
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,119
her breaking free from the Judgment Day. And I do

431
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,319
think if Raquel and Roxanne turn on Her, I think

432
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,759
Live could be a very over babyface and I hope

433
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:23,640
they get to that sooner rather than later.

434
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I talked about Raquel Rodriguez and Roxanne

435
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,960
Perez potentially down the line having an issue with Live Morgan.

436
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,279
They've teased that before, and I wonder who would end

437
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,960
up the babyface in that scenariod, likely Live Morgan. You know,

438
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,079
I'd assume Roxanne or Roquel turning on Live rather than

439
00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:45,039
the other way around, So that is something to keep

440
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:49,440
an eye on. Match number two was Royce Keys, Solo,

441
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,200
Soca and La Night against the USAS and Jacob fa two.

442
00:22:54,559 --> 00:23:00,920
The Keys, Soca and Night Triumvirate Triumph were USO's and

443
00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:05,279
Jacob Fattu not noticeably not much of a reaction for

444
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:11,880
Royce Keys coming out Night Pins Jay so a couple

445
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:13,640
couple of questions here. I mean, I thought the match

446
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:17,200
was okay, this is one of those matches coming in

447
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,720
though that just kind of was It felt very confusing.

448
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:23,839
There were a lot of conflicting personalities here that I'm

449
00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:27,160
not sure ever settled into a great spot for us

450
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,440
as fans to really know who to who to like

451
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:34,759
here And I mentioned during the show again you can

452
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:37,839
find me at Greg m Parks on X and on

453
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,119
Blue Sky. But it was kind of like it felt

454
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,400
like USO's and Jacob Fatu were the heels and the

455
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,799
others were the baby faces. But when you look at

456
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:50,200
the teams, it almost feels like, to a man, every

457
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,799
one of them is better the opposite way, like the

458
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,640
USOS and Jacob Fatu, I think we are better babyfaces.

459
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:58,000
I think Royce Keys, Solstico in l A Night probably

460
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,599
better heels. And yet they were kind of flipped there.

461
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,400
You know, it was confusing because Jacob Fatu doing this

462
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:10,599
on orders from Roman Rraines, who I think has been

463
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,839
more of the babyface in the build up to the

464
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:14,960
match against seth Rawlins. I mean Rowinds even coming out

465
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,039
and saying I'm the bad guy, So that was a

466
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:21,319
little confusing as well, I think, and correct me if

467
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:23,799
I'm wrong here, but I think Roman Raines's absence in

468
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,160
this story has kind of hurt. You know, the USO's

469
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,880
and Jacob Fatu mentioning they're doing all of this the

470
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,079
behest of Roman Raines, and yet Rains is off doing

471
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,319
his own thing and not really paying attention to this,

472
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,920
so that I think that kind of hurt this as well. Again,

473
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,920
not a bad match or anything like that.

474
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:40,319
Speaker 4: It was.

475
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: It was a pretty decent six man, but it was

476
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,640
just it was just very convoluted in the build up,

477
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,759
and I think that hurt the presentation of the match.

478
00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 4: I like how you said convoluted in the build up

479
00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:55,119
because I completely agree with you how muddy it's been

480
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,319
leading up to this. But then when they got in

481
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,279
the ring tonight, it was straight babyface for straight ill

482
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,400
like the USO's and Jacob Fattoo. If you wouldn't have

483
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,240
told me that they were babyfaces, and I was a

484
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,559
wrestling fan who knew what a babyface and a hill

485
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,119
acts like and then watch this. They were hill through

486
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,559
and through inasmuch as the yeat stuff and coming through

487
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,960
the crowd was absence. The USOS came out from the

488
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,319
stage kind of did away with that. You know what,

489
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,039
this juncture is kind of an artificial fan pop. They

490
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:28,559
didn't even take that. And I think in the match

491
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,000
they worked the heat. They were the ones taking the

492
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:33,480
cheap shots. All of the hot tags came from the

493
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:37,799
Babyface team. So it was a babyface hill match, and

494
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,240
as a babyface in a hill match, I thought it

495
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:44,079
was very energetic and it worked quite well. This match

496
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,440
was made worse by the fact that I've watched TV

497
00:25:46,599 --> 00:25:50,799
leading up to it, but the actual it's a dream point.

498
00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:54,279
Speaker 2: If you just like plopped in at this moment and

499
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:56,119
watch this match, you probably think it was pretty decent

500
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,400
and you kind of liked it. You know, solo Sako

501
00:25:58,519 --> 00:26:02,640
as being a babyface and yeah, I'm more outgoing than

502
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,119
he's ever been, and you're like, oh, this is kind

503
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,279
of cool. But like you said, you watch the TV

504
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,359
and you're like this this is not adding up.

505
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:12,039
Speaker 4: So I'll say like, as a match, I thought this

506
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,480
was energetic and quite good. They even did like the

507
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:17,000
shotgun It's called the shotgun spot where everyone hits their

508
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:19,079
big finish, they go to the floor. They had that

509
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,079
cool spot where Jacob Fattou dashes it Royce Keys and

510
00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:25,559
he power slams them kind of kind of looked ugly

511
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,400
but in a good way to the out over the barricade,

512
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:30,240
and so a lot of really good.

513
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: Actions youri spot of the match.

514
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of good action. I was just like

515
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:35,720
the whole time I'm watching this, I'm like, well, if

516
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,279
you were going to do a hill and face match,

517
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,680
why didn't you dress them up as baby faces cleanly?

518
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,680
And dress these other guys up his heels cleanly in

519
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,279
the weeks leading up to this, because you made people

520
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,240
care less, but the action made them care more.

521
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: Some more comments from the chat on this one. Poor

522
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,480
Royce still not fully over. There's still time. I'm not

523
00:26:57,559 --> 00:26:59,920
ready to give up on the Royce Keys experiment yet,

524
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:02,559
though it's off to a little bit of a slow start.

525
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 4: For sure, he's lacking. I'll say this like, I don't

526
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,920
think he has a natural charisma and one thing that

527
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:10,640
kind of scares me, and I'll talk about this with

528
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,759
Nick all this as well, But it's not gonna matter

529
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:14,720
for Nick Allis because he's not a wrestler at all.

530
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,079
But you can kind of see when a wrestler's past

531
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,680
their prime when they run the ropes and they don't

532
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,000
bend their knees anymore. And if you watch Royce Keys

533
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,039
run the ropes and in aw he never ran. They

534
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:28,160
were always running into him, and he was picking up

535
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:32,240
guys who are generally at least sixty, if not one

536
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:35,039
hundred pounds less than him. Now he's struggling to pick

537
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:38,640
up Jimmy Usso, and not just tonight, multiple times. And

538
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,920
when he runs, watch his knees. He doesn't bend his knees.

539
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,960
And once a wrestler doesn't have that bend in their knees,

540
00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:47,920
not only can they not run, but if you're taller,

541
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:50,200
you have a hard time bending your knees to get

542
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:52,519
under guys. And if you can't get under a guy,

543
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:54,599
you're gonna have a really hard time picking them up

544
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,400
without them doing a lot of work. So I worry

545
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,559
about him because I think he's already passed his physical

546
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:03,960
prime and I see limitations in him before he's even

547
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,960
made it to the dance.

548
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: Yes, one of those things where you know, you're talking

549
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,960
about how AW booked him and how they set up

550
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,680
his match structure, and if you're WWE and you're the

551
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,000
producers of his matches, I mean you got to know

552
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:17,519
what he does well and what he doesn't, and you've

553
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:20,000
got to structure the match around what he can do,

554
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,480
what he's capable of at this point, and not try

555
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,559
to stretch him outside the bounds of what he can

556
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:25,039
really do.

557
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 4: And the worst thing they did is when they had

558
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,960
him wrestle Taalatanga, because when he wrestled Taalatanga, he did

559
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,240
the spot where he close lines him, he doesn't run down,

560
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,200
he runs against the ropes, he close unds him again

561
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,119
and doesn't fall down, hits the ropes again, close lines him,

562
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,480
and he knocks him back. And right then I was like, oh,

563
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,880
Royce Keys can't run. He's no longer an athlete. And

564
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,279
once you look at a big guy who's not an athlete,

565
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,079
their credibility is gone.

566
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:52,599
Speaker 2: Sadler says match was fine in my opinion, did what

567
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,680
it was supposed to do. Get Solo over as a face,

568
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:56,880
gives Keys a big match, gives La a big win

569
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,559
for what I will soon be a Roman title match

570
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,400
in the your future do you see that as the

571
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,640
future for La Knight? Is that what this is building to,

572
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:09,799
going over the bloodline here to eventually go kind of

573
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:11,880
up the Bloodline ladder to Roman Reigns.

574
00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I could see it as the lead up to

575
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440
a Wargames match or the fallout from a Wargames match.

576
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,519
But I think the quality of work that La Knight's

577
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:24,480
done on the mic and just kind of being like

578
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,079
a stable force in the WWE main event or just

579
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:33,079
below main event level, I think he deserves another big match,

580
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:34,759
and that's a good one for him.

581
00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody else in the chat, Tom saying solo highlight

582
00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:42,799
of the night, Pile Driver Pete says, I really like

583
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,319
the men six man tag. The night got a loud

584
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:51,599
reception that he did. So let's go then to match

585
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,039
number three, which was Gunther versus Nick Alldis. And this

586
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,880
was another match that I highlighted on the Flagship with

587
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,559
Wade earlier this week as probably like the third biggest

588
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:05,440
match over the two nights, which is kind of weird

589
00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,720
if you think about it. It's Gunter versus someone who's

590
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,720
been presented as a non wrestler on TV as the

591
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:15,160
SmackDown GM. So that's either an indictment of the build

592
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,160
or the rest of the card, or just a compliment

593
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,920
as to the creative leading up to this match. I'm

594
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,960
not sure which one of those it is, but this

595
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:27,119
is good reaction for all this. You know, I was shocked.

596
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,240
I mean, for someone who has never wrestled in WWE

597
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:34,559
and has no history with probably a lot of this

598
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,559
fan base, they really took to him in this match.

599
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:40,519
Speaker 4: Especially by the end. Especially by the end, which is

600
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,799
the quality of work you're doing during the match. There's

601
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,880
this this list blitmus tests in wrestling, the entrance that

602
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,559
you get coming in and the entrance that you get

603
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:52,559
coming out, and if you're getting a more favorable response

604
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,519
coming out than you did coming in, that means you

605
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:58,000
and your opponent did a hell of a job and

606
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,119
in this match, which wasn't my favorite, but I thought

607
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,680
it definitely accomplished its goal and I think we did

608
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,279
a good job.

609
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,759
Speaker 5: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.

610
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,079
Will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress

611
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:16,680
Paradise at Pterboo Torch VIP as we mask on the

612
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,400
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613
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,359
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614
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:26,880
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

615
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680
for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done

616
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,759
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series

617
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,759
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and our

618
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,079
Eye was there when shows where our guests will join

619
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,519
me to talk about a classic bout that they were

620
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,920
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621
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,680
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622
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,119
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623
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:56,920
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624
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,079
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626
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627
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:08,759
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628
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, the finish felt a bit abrupt. I thought, you know,

629
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,519
this was kind of tailor made for the Gunther style

630
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:22,359
of match, which is he dominates the first couple of

631
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,359
minutes his opponent. You know, it was kind of the

632
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,440
Sammy z Ain formula that they used against Gunther when

633
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,599
those two were having their feud, and Zane kind of

634
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,640
works his way back because those hope spots get those

635
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,920
real close in near falls, but in the end Gunter

636
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,279
kind of puts them down. And I thought this was

637
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:42,200
kind of an abbreviated version of that style of match.

638
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,480
I thought it it may and who knows? You know

639
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:46,759
all this for all his training for this match hasn't

640
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:48,480
wrestled in three years. He may have calls an audible

641
00:32:48,519 --> 00:32:50,839
and said let's go home a little earlier because the

642
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,920
finish did feel abrupt to me, and then he gets

643
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,599
the cheers after the match, Mickey James, his wife, his son,

644
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,480
come into the ring, kind of ascend off again. Crowd

645
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,720
very receptive to all this and his family at that point.

646
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,119
Big question that I've had some discussion with people on

647
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,599
social media after this match is did you see enough

648
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,799
from all this in this match? And did he get

649
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:17,000
a good enough reception from the crowd where if your

650
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:22,039
triple h do you sit back and consider, Okay, let's

651
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:24,400
maybe move him away from GM. Let's maybe get a

652
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,000
year or two out of him as a as a

653
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,559
full time wrestler, because he's shown he can do it.

654
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,079
He's shown that he has the fan response already built in.

655
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,920
Is that something you would seriously consider for me?

656
00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 4: No, because I think actually this match and how well

657
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:48,000
it went and the way the fans took to him

658
00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:51,599
will make him better in the GM role working with Hills,

659
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,720
because now everything the Hill. Every time the Hill argues

660
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:57,440
with him or attempts to BULLYM or cuts off the

661
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:01,079
rules and Nick reinforces the rule, it makes the fans

662
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:03,720
want to reinforce the rules, which I think makes the

663
00:34:03,759 --> 00:34:06,880
GM role more effective. So I actually think that this

664
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,559
helps his GM character more than it would if he

665
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,119
was a week to week wrestler, where I think eventually

666
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,119
he would fall down the card right right.

667
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,199
Speaker 2: That would be my argument. I agree with you, I

668
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,480
would say, I would say a lot of the same

669
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,280
things you did, and I would also add I think

670
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,400
he's more important as a GM, and he's really good

671
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,159
at that role, and I think he's more valuable to

672
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,199
WWE given the importance of that role and given how

673
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,760
much screen time. And you can agree or disagree whether

674
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,119
or not a GM character should get that much TV time,

675
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:42,320
but in WW he does, and he's really good at it,

676
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,480
and he gets a lot of TV time. Is it

677
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,599
worth taking him out of that to wrestle what would

678
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:52,440
likely be a mid card role. You know, I certainly

679
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,079
don't see him being a you know, maybe he gets

680
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:58,000
a title shot on TV at some point based on

681
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:01,119
the reaction he got tonight, maybe they could make that argument,

682
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:02,880
but it's certainly not I mean, he's not going to

683
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,960
transition into a full time main eventor so to me,

684
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,800
he's more important as a GM character wise on the

685
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,039
show than he would be as a wrestler. Likely somewhere

686
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:13,599
in the car.

687
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,679
Speaker 4: I agree. And what made this match work the most

688
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,760
is the novelty of it. The novelty for the people

689
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,400
who have not seen him, Rustle made them take to him,

690
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,280
especially when he showed like my favorite part of the

691
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,079
match was actually the first one of the first things

692
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:29,559
they did where Gunther backs him into the corner and

693
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:31,800
chops him, like tries to punk him and bully him,

694
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:34,360
and he gets chopped and Nick Allie just swings and

695
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,079
punches him right back, and you hear the fans are like, oh,

696
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:39,679
he's not going to take it, And I just love

697
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,239
that moment because it was like, oh, yeah, this is

698
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,679
what this match is going to be. Gunther's going to

699
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,320
try to bully him, and he's going to fight back

700
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:51,760
because he's fighting for his manhood essentially and for his pride.

701
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:54,079
And that was the story of the match that was told.

702
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,079
And I think you can only do that so many

703
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,599
times though, and then it loses effectiveness. So I like

704
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,199
him as a novelty match every now and then, and

705
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,320
it might be once a year, it might be once

706
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,039
every two to three years. But now I think a

707
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:11,000
lot of the fans know that this guy, you can

708
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,840
only push him so far and then we get to

709
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,159
see him Russell, but every time you get to see

710
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:18,440
him Rustle, it's gonna feel special if they do it right.

711
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:20,880
And I think as a heel GM, you could do

712
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,360
another match where he's the hill GM and the baby

713
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,280
Face gets to beat him up and it will be

714
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,880
effective just like that as well. So I think putting

715
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,119
him in the GM role but having it in the

716
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:35,280
safe in the back room that if he needs to

717
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,800
wrestle for an angle, it can work. I think that's

718
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,800
kind of a pocket ace when you need it.

719
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,639
Speaker 2: It's good to have. It's good to have to pull

720
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:45,400
out when you need it and know that he can

721
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,760
be effective in that role comments on this match from

722
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,920
the chat. I thought this was good, also says Saddlers.

723
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,199
And I see a very old school style match get

724
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,519
a big reaction from the crowd. Surprised Alla Scott this reaction,

725
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,760
and Jace C. Scooby says, I saw body slams thanks

726
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
to all this pile driver Pete all this had the

727
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,920
crowd on his side. Nice to see. Jack says, I

728
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,239
loved all this gunther It's good to see him get

729
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:17,079
in there. Let's see who else. Bob says, all this

730
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,000
can still go. Gunn There ads to Guntherro's resume, but

731
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:21,400
they need to run it back just to see how

732
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,480
good gun There really is. I think we saw how

733
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:25,159
good gun There really is in this match. I mean

734
00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:28,440
I didn't see an out for all this or anything

735
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,199
like that. Sean, he'll talk more about this, I'm sure

736
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,199
when we get him on the air. But he said

737
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,440
all this should definitely wrestle for a while, so some

738
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,920
disagreement there. I'd love to hear more from him on that.

739
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,880
A lot of people just pointing out how pleased they

740
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,559
were about the match, which is awesome to see.

741
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 4: The other thing that scares me about all this, and

742
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,599
I mentioned this about Royce Keys too, but he doesn't

743
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760
bend his knees a lot when he runs, like he

744
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,559
barely got over They did like the drop down leapfrog spot,

745
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:04,519
and I thought he was going to trip over Gunter

746
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:07,400
both times because he just doesn't run the ropes with

747
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,920
a lot of fluidity at this point. And Matt tells

748
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,559
me like, whenever I see that, I'm like, oh, that

749
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:16,960
guy's got bad knees. And he looked a little winded

750
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,320
as well. But it actually kind of added to the match,

751
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:20,760
because then that's what.

752
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,559
Speaker 2: Someone in the chat said it was. It was he looked,

753
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:25,639
he looked blown up, But it added to the match

754
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,119
because you know, you would expect a guy who's been

755
00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:29,920
a chi in the lastew year, who hasn't rustled the

756
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,679
match to be winded against a guy the caliber of Gunga.

757
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,199
Speaker 4: And it adds to the fact though he looked like

758
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,599
a guy who was getting beat up, which makes him

759
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,639
when he fights back, it's even more valiantly right, So

760
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:42,519
I thought it worked.

761
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: Match number four, Bella's and Page against Fatal Influence. This

762
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,880
one was a rough spot on the card, I thought. Comparatively,

763
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,119
speaking to the rest of the show, J C. Jane

764
00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:01,400
Pinn's page, Fatal Influence gets the victory the Bella's turn

765
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:03,719
on page after the match looks like there could have

766
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,039
been an injury to breathe Bella. She was holding her

767
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,320
shoulder after the match, did not really participate so much

768
00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:14,079
in the postmatch beat down. So, you know, kind of

769
00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:19,440
in the same circle as Obafemi here in that Fatal Influence.

770
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,400
A group on the rise in WWE, on the SmackDown

771
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:25,559
roster gets a big victory on a major show, a

772
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:29,119
stadium show, Summer Slam against a Hall of Fame team

773
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,039
in the Bella's as well as page and you know,

774
00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:36,159
they keep the Bella's drama going with the with the

775
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:39,920
turn on on page. So your thoughts on the match

776
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:45,159
itself and your impression of Fatal Influence thus far in

777
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,559
ww's main roster.

778
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,199
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be blunt. This match sucked. It was terrible.

779
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:54,159
Speaker 2: I was more I was definitely more diplomatic about it

780
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:55,880
than New York Derek appreciated.

781
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be nice about it. I'll give

782
00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:02,880
I'll give Breese some leeway that she looked like her

783
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,719
she hurt her shoulder, and I've been I tried to

784
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,559
be really forgiving of the bellas, but their offense just

785
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:12,280
doesn't look good. It was rough, and I feel that

786
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,159
they've done no service to fatal Influence because they're working

787
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:19,599
at different speeds. Fatal Influence is trying to be these

788
00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:24,480
aggressive heels, and their intensity and their aggressiveness is just

789
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:28,840
not being matched. This has not helped them whatsoever. And

790
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,079
one of the ways that I can tell a match

791
00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:33,519
is falling apart and just has no rhyme or reason

792
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:36,039
is when I'm trying to take these little notes in

793
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:38,599
my book to do my recap, and then when I

794
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:41,199
read my notes, I'm like, oh, this doesn't make any sense.

795
00:40:41,199 --> 00:40:44,679
Who put me together? And and it was like that

796
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,639
because I'm like, so there was a transition here, but

797
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,039
I don't remember what the transition was because it really

798
00:40:51,159 --> 00:40:54,960
wasn't a transition. And this person where they legal? Why

799
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,039
are they in the ring? Did I miss a tag?

800
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:59,239
Did they not show me the tag? Did they forget

801
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,760
the tag? And that whole thing. I was just like,

802
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,199
this is by the By the last like minute and

803
00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:06,360
a half, I was like, I have no idea. Who's legal?

804
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,960
I have no idea what what the story they're trying

805
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,920
to tell this just feels like an absolute mess. And

806
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,360
to even go one step further, I'm really upset that

807
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:22,519
the Bella's turned on page. Not because they turned on page,

808
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:26,000
because this means that I hope we don't have to

809
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:30,800
see more television time being allocated to these gals. Give

810
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,079
it to somebody else who are gonna is going to

811
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:36,440
use it in a more meaningful fashion. That's not nostalgia

812
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,320
for Total Divas viewers from ten years ago. Make it stop, please.

813
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:52,519
Speaker 2: You know there there is this online group of fans

814
00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:58,159
who really believe and look the Bellas I think influenced

815
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,840
through Total Diva's me influenced a generation of women, got

816
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,760
a generation of women watching pro wrestling that otherwise would

817
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,320
not have watched the product. And I think you do

818
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,199
have some women getting into wrestling and reaching the WWE

819
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,800
sth today because of the Belts. I think that's real.

820
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,159
Speaker 4: Yes, I agree, I agree, But what.

821
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:22,639
Speaker 2: I don't think was ever real was that they were

822
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:24,960
of any great shakes in the ring. And I know

823
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,760
there are some people who want to get on their

824
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,119
soapbox and talk about how much the Bellows improved over

825
00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:37,199
their time in WWE from when they began. Minimally, maybe

826
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:41,440
I just didn't see this. You know, we can talk

827
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,440
about the Bellas and their influence and their impact, but

828
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,079
we can also hold the same thought in our head

829
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:50,159
that they're just not good in the ring and they've

830
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,199
never really been that good in the ring.

831
00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 4: And I look at this of the last year too, Greg,

832
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,360
and it does kind of frustrate me. Is it's Stephanie

833
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,679
Bacare became champion and the first the first contender they

834
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,760
set up for her to help her get over as

835
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,199
a babyface was nicky and it didn't work. It hurts Stephanie.

836
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,199
Butcare's title run and it hurts Stephanie Bacaire. And now

837
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,159
you have fatal influence come in as these hot heels.

838
00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:19,360
And if you remember when they showed up first, they

839
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,719
were attacking Charlotte and they were attacking Rhea and they

840
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:26,320
had lots of heat. And then they put them against

841
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,000
this team and what have we seen. It feels like

842
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:33,960
the energy behind them is lessening and lessening. So if

843
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,760
they're not going to do it for the product and

844
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,119
for the talent that surrounds them, they're a net negative

845
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:43,079
on your show. Even if they are bringing in some

846
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:47,599
holdover fans. I respect what they do outside of wrestling,

847
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,400
But there is a time where they have such a

848
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,599
lineup of females who could get time and use it

849
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,360
and cherish it more and do more with it going

850
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,679
forward instead of always looking back, move forward, don't look back.

851
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:05,199
Bellas are looking back. Yeah.

852
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:06,559
Speaker 3: Uh.

853
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: Some comments, it looks like the Bella's turn on page

854
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,880
was not all that unexpected. John said it was his prediction.

855
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:17,199
He says they're better as heels. We had Jack in

856
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,599
the chat saying that Bella's turn was expected and actually

857
00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:25,840
expected it after WrestleMania. Let's see, we have the purpose

858
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,880
of that page, Matt. She was to get Paige back

859
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,360
into I'm really sure how useful that's going to be,

860
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:37,960
even I don't know what she has far removed from

861
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,079
her days is yeah, she's far removed from her days

862
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,920
where she was kind of this this nxt UH star.

863
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,199
You know, she's had a lot of injuries things like that,

864
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,079
and and the women's roster as a whole has gotten

865
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:56,480
better from in ring standpoint, So the bar has been

866
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:58,920
raised in the time that she's been away, in the

867
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,159
time that she's you know, Ben hurt and things like that,

868
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,840
and I'm not sure where she fits in with this

869
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,320
current crop from an entering standpoint.

870
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I just worry about also the fact that

871
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,679
where is she in five years. She's not on the rosters,

872
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,079
So if she's not helping somebody else get to a

873
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:21,119
higher level, I don't think she's serving a purpose, right,

874
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,199
So I would give it to people who who are

875
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:26,880
going to be more fixtures of your women's division in

876
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:27,800
the coming years.

877
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. A Zahm said it felt like a TV match.

878
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,880
Jack says, personally, I think jac should be winning the

879
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,039
interim ladder match. So that's the mass that takes place

880
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:43,239
tomorrow night. It looks like, you know, the consensus in

881
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,239
the chat is that there was not a lot of

882
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,840
love for this match, but there is some interest in

883
00:45:51,159 --> 00:45:55,440
fatal influence going forward, so people not holding it against

884
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,599
fatal influence that they were a participant in this match.

885
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:01,639
Speaker 4: I suppose the best part of this match is it

886
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:05,199
was only seven minutes, so I've complained about it more

887
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,840
than it actually took to watch it. So that's okay.

888
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 2: Well, we are talking heads on the internet. That's kind

889
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,760
of what we do. I think that sums it up

890
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:16,199
right there.

891
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: You know that last segment you're just listening to and

892
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,440
the next one that you're waiting to listen to. Those

893
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:24,960
can be one second apart. With a VIP membership, you

894
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,840
can unlock our commercial free versions of our shows. Pw

895
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,599
torch dot com slash go vip tells you how to

896
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:33,760
do it. That's pw torch dot Com slash Go VIP

897
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:37,639
options exist within the Apple podcast app using your Apple

898
00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:39,920
account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync

899
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,239
up with Spotify or just about any iOS or Android app.

900
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,199
With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed

901
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,480
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to pw torch dot com slash go vip for full

903
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:55,400
details on all the options to listen commercial free and

904
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:59,719
with upper tier options unlock our VIP exclusive podcast run

905
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:00,800
throughout the week every week.

906
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 2: Match number five the Semi Manument Cody Rhods versus Cmpunk

907
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:11,079
Undisputed WWE Championship. This was a They set a slow

908
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:15,719
pace very early on and deliberate. It didn't feel like

909
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,840
the crowd was super into it at first either, and

910
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,840
that maybe just because here's two babyfaces to top baby

911
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,159
faces that people really like fighting, and it's kind of

912
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:28,760
like your parents fighting. You don't want to choose between them,

913
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,519
so the crowd kind of just was waiting things out

914
00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:35,400
a little bit. Eventually the ref was bumped, Randy Orton

915
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:40,519
comes back our Ko's Cody Cmpunk gets the victory and

916
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,800
retains the undisputed WWE championship. As you mentioned earlier in

917
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,320
the show, we never really did get to find out

918
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,280
who the better man was, which was kind of how

919
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,159
this match was built and set up, you know heat.

920
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,599
I think WWE hoping the heat goes on Randy Orton

921
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,800
for us not getting to see who who the better

922
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,039
man was here. It's gonna be really interesting to see

923
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,639
what Sam Punk says on the on the first show,

924
00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:10,239
whether it's r or SmackDown, wherever he speaks first. You know,

925
00:48:10,519 --> 00:48:13,320
is he going to say, is he going to say, hey, Cody,

926
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,719
I saw what happened with Randy, didn't see it till

927
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,800
after the match, you get a rematch anytime you want?

928
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,920
Or does he kind of go out and gloat and say, I,

929
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:23,639
you know, I beat Cody Rose, I proved I was

930
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:27,119
the best. I'm still here champion. Who's next? And that's

931
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:29,480
going to say a lot about seem Punk the character,

932
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,840
whichever tact he takes. But Derek, you know this again,

933
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,480
this was a slow pace, but I thought it was

934
00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:40,239
worked well. The only misstep was was see them punk

935
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,000
missing a moon swamps off the top rope, which you

936
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,079
can kind of tell the look on his face after that.

937
00:48:46,159 --> 00:48:48,159
He knew that that was going to become, you know,

938
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,159
kind of an Internet sensation for the next twenty four hours. Anyway,

939
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,679
he knew he kind of blew the spot, but you

940
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,519
know it was it was a good match. What was

941
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:01,039
your take on just kind of the pace and the

942
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,079
overall pace they set for the match.

943
00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 4: The way I described it in my report that I'll

944
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,320
stand by is it was good, but not great and

945
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:13,480
far from epic. And I think that was a lot

946
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:17,639
because I'm fine with the slow pace, but at times

947
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:19,800
in that slow pace, you really want to pick up

948
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,719
that intensity where it gets to that next level and

949
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,920
then the crowd comes up to that intensity with you,

950
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,639
and that's what creates that buzz in the arena. And

951
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,199
there was a few exchanges they had where I thought

952
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:39,599
they almost got to that buzz, but then the follow

953
00:49:39,679 --> 00:49:41,440
up didn't take it to that next level, and so

954
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:43,400
that's where I felt. I felt like it was kind

955
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,639
of stuck in this like three and a half gear

956
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,599
in this three and a half gear, and I was

957
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,679
hoping the crowd could take it up to four or

958
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,440
their energy could take it up to four. And I

959
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:58,239
never felt it got there. Described it, yeah, but they

960
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,199
had a few exchanges where I thought they almost.

961
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder how much of it was. Look, I mean,

962
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,440
Cody Rose is forty one years old, Ciampunk is forty

963
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:10,800
seven years old. There are a lot of miles on

964
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,239
those two bodies, and you know, this is a this

965
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,320
is a pace that they could go through and not

966
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:23,480
be sucking win at the end. And so I wonder

967
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,800
how much of that went into setting up the match

968
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:30,559
in this style, just that hey, these are two old

969
00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:36,079
dogs and in order to in order to climax their

970
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:39,239
match at the end after however many minutes it went.

971
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,199
And I don't know how many minutes it went, you know,

972
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,519
probably closing in on Oh, okay, I was gonna say twenty,

973
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:49,599
but yeah, thirty. I mean certainly you want to make

974
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:51,039
sure if you if you get the call that you're

975
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:54,079
going thirty, you want to make sure that you have

976
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,039
your best at the end. And I think that deliberate

977
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:02,079
pace over the first ten fifty team twenty minutes was

978
00:51:02,119 --> 00:51:04,800
an effort to make sure that they had their best

979
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:05,639
to offer at the end.

980
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the easiest way to distinguish this from

981
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,320
what would have been an excellent or an epic match

982
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:15,960
is in structure. This was very similar to Roman Reigns

983
00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:20,159
versus Sampunk at WrestleMania Night two, but which set that

984
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,480
methodical pace. But they were able to pick up that

985
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,480
energy and that intensity at different times in the match,

986
00:51:26,639 --> 00:51:29,840
and the crowd came there with that energy too, and

987
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,440
that's when that momentum and that energy level starts to

988
00:51:32,519 --> 00:51:35,119
stack on top of each other and then it reaches

989
00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:38,960
that moment CM Punk and Roman Reigns, which I thought

990
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:42,119
was just phenomenal this year. They reached that level and

991
00:51:42,199 --> 00:51:44,519
then they kept it there and they almost pushed it

992
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:47,639
again to that height. This just never got there, and

993
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,719
so they couldn't push it higher than where it was.

994
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:53,239
And some of that is what you're talking about. You're

995
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,320
setting that methodical pace, but you've got to have those

996
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,360
moments where that energy and that intensity picks up. And

997
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,039
I don't think they had enough of folks.

998
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,039
Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit about Randy Orton and

999
00:52:06,159 --> 00:52:08,880
what his comeback means, you know, I think there was

1000
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,960
reporting just a few days ago actually by Fightful about

1001
00:52:12,039 --> 00:52:15,840
Orton out with a back injury, aggravating his back during

1002
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,280
his last match, and taking some time away. So it

1003
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,800
was kind of surprising in that regard that he came

1004
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,239
back here tonight. But obviously his sites are set on

1005
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,280
Cody Rhodes. Where do you see Orton versus Roads ultimately

1006
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,159
taking place? What do you think Orton adds to the

1007
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,519
roster at this stage.

1008
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:37,559
Speaker 4: Of the game. I think Orton and Cody, I think

1009
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:39,840
they tried it, and they know it got messed up

1010
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,840
by Pat McAfee, and so they wanted to give it

1011
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,199
another try. But I think they're forgetting that even before

1012
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,960
you introduce Pat mcavee to the equation, it wasn't working

1013
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,320
the way they wanted it to work in the first place,

1014
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,639
so I'm cautious about going back to it. What I

1015
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,840
see for Randy Orton, which I think would be better

1016
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,519
for him and better for the company, is to put

1017
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:04,840
them with younger guys because they can bring the energy

1018
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,360
in the motion and he actually doesn't have He doesn't

1019
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,199
have to try to keep up with them. He can

1020
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,559
actually slow him down and make their stuff mean more,

1021
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:14,679
and I think that would be a better use of

1022
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,519
Randy Orton. I wish I could say I would be

1023
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:24,239
I was excited for a Cody Randy match, but WrestleMania

1024
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,840
left such a stain on me, and I think a

1025
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,599
lot of the fan base that right when you say it,

1026
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,960
you kind of like sink down in your chair and

1027
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:34,480
you go, I don't know if I want to see that.

1028
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,599
That's how I feel. Is that how you feel about it?

1029
00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:37,119
Gray Well?

1030
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:40,599
Speaker 2: I mean when you see Cody Ross Ridy Orton, I'm

1031
00:53:40,639 --> 00:53:45,639
trying to picture that match in my mind, and there's

1032
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,559
a very low ceiling to the quality of that match.

1033
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,679
I mean, with with Orton's injuries, with Rhodes, you know,

1034
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:55,920
with his agent and the wear and tear again on

1035
00:53:56,039 --> 00:54:00,000
his body when we saw that probably play a part

1036
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,480
in the match being structured the way it was here tonight.

1037
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,679
You know, it's just not I wonder how aesthetically pleasing

1038
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,639
that match is going to be. I think it's I

1039
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,840
think the match is probably going to be a lot

1040
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,599
of slow, methodical body work, you know, which, hey, there's

1041
00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:19,679
there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but again, you know,

1042
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,159
it's it's kind of a low ceiling as to the

1043
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,679
quality you're going to get, just because at this stage

1044
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,800
they're not going to do a whole lot outside the box.

1045
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,599
They're not, so unless you unless you do a stip

1046
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,039
like a cage match or you know, falls count anywhere

1047
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:36,000
or something that lets them kind of walk and brawl

1048
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:40,000
and use some weapons and and really create interests artificially

1049
00:54:40,119 --> 00:54:42,920
in that way. If you're doing a straight Cody Roads

1050
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,280
versus Randy work in one on one match, yeah I

1051
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,719
don't see. It doesn't have a ton of upside to me.

1052
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think what was most disappointing too, is in

1053
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,480
the lead up to WrestleMania, I went on YouTube and

1054
00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:58,039
I watched all these old Cody Roads and Randy Orton

1055
00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:00,360
matches when Cody was in Legacy and a round Man

1056
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,280
and even before, and they had killer chemistry and there

1057
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,000
was like a spark in it, like they have this

1058
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:08,280
raw match and it was I was like, Wow, this

1059
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,039
is really, really, really good. And then they had their

1060
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:14,599
match for the King of the Ring tournament, which set

1061
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:16,559
a slow pace, but I still think it was pretty

1062
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:20,039
high quality, and so I was pretty disappointed that they

1063
00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:23,159
laid such an egg at WrestleMania and I think it's

1064
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:25,519
easy to blame the storyline on it, but the end

1065
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:30,320
ring action was not very good either, So I'm with you.

1066
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:33,440
But I think one step that could work that I

1067
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:37,360
think with lower expectations for a wrestling match, is I

1068
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,239
wouldn't mind seeing like a taped fist and jeans old

1069
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,079
school bull rope match, like just that style brawling. Both

1070
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:48,960
of those guys have good punches and kicks. You set

1071
00:55:49,039 --> 00:55:52,320
that intensity those that's that one or two exceptions they

1072
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,639
do every year where you get some blood and some color,

1073
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:57,880
you use the cow bell, all the bells and whistles.

1074
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,360
That's a match that I think they could put off

1075
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,800
and they would leave the fans feeling good about the match,

1076
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:08,360
but also good about the rivalry and otherwise straight up

1077
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,400
wrestling match between those two. I don't feel it in

1078
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,559
my belly. It doesn't It doesn't get me excited.

1079
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,159
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm not sure Randy Orton has ever

1080
00:56:17,199 --> 00:56:21,840
worn jeans before. I'm that may disqualify him from participating.

1081
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,119
Speaker 4: In a match of that kind of taped fist shirt

1082
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:24,920
in his underwear.

1083
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: Yes, there you go. That's that's more like it. That's

1084
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,360
more than Andy Orton speed sleepless hoodie.

1085
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 4: There's something good about a sleepless hooy.

1086
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:36,199
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever worn a sleepless hoity.

1087
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:38,559
Speaker 4: I'm going to try that me neither me neither, because

1088
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:41,719
it seems like such like a paradox, like I'm old

1089
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,079
but I'm warm. I don't understand it at.

1090
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: The Bill Belichick style. Maybe I don't know do they

1091
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,239
make those or you do have to rip them off,

1092
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:51,920
because Belichick always looked like he ripped his off.

1093
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think he was going for like, I

1094
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:58,440
don't care. Look, even though you know he obviously probably cares.

1095
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,760
He became a gimmick. Isn't that interesting that the no,

1096
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,320
the no thrills coach became like a stereotype and a

1097
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:06,559
caricature of himself.

1098
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 2: And yeah he did.

1099
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 4: He's pro wrestling. Bill Belichick's pro wresting.

1100
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 2: Anyway. Anyway, back to Randy Rivers Cody Rose in the chat,

1101
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,800
Sadler says, I thought this was very slow. Could have

1102
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,719
been on the phone scrolling for the first ten minutes

1103
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,199
or so and not miss much. Yeah, I think that's

1104
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,159
a that's a good way to put it. Azan says,

1105
00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:26,760
hopefully they get Cody and Randy feed better this time. Well,

1106
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,719
not having Pat McAfee involved, well kind of automatically, Well,

1107
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:32,239
we'll do that.

1108
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 4: I want to see I want to see Finn and Randy.

1109
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,639
I think that's like a novel matchup that we've never seen.

1110
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,119
And I think they would have good chemistry because Finn

1111
00:57:41,199 --> 00:57:44,280
Balor he's got that he's the energetic baby face where

1112
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,599
a Hill doesn't have to do much for the match

1113
00:57:46,679 --> 00:57:48,519
to go really good. So I'd like to see that.

1114
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: And based on what he talked about on SmackDown, you

1115
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,039
know he could be hungry for that. That style of

1116
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,119
the interview that Bellor cut on SmackDown, Pyle Dreve repeat.

1117
00:57:57,159 --> 00:57:59,000
The thing that irks me is Orton and Rhodes are

1118
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,800
two veterans against each other, that these dudes need to

1119
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,400
put people over. Yeah, I think that's the general the

1120
00:58:04,519 --> 00:58:08,119
general sentiment. Tom says the pace of the match cut

1121
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:10,840
the crowd out of the match for too long. What

1122
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,239
do you most attribute to that lack of reaction at

1123
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,559
least early on. Was it that there's these two baby

1124
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:18,440
faces and fans didn't know who cheer for, or was

1125
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:19,880
it the slow pace of the match.

1126
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,079
Speaker 4: A combination of the two. But I definitely felt what

1127
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:26,480
you're talking about, where I thought there would be like

1128
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:30,519
a notable buzz as they made introductions and the bell rung,

1129
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,280
and I was kind of like, I remember, I grabbed

1130
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,719
my remote control and I started looking at the volume

1131
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,960
to see if it was turned down because I just

1132
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:41,280
wasn't hearing a lot of noise. But to be honest,

1133
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,599
that's kind of what I felt in Brocklesner and Oba.

1134
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,119
I felt there would be more of a buzz at

1135
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:48,480
the start, and they got there. But I think this

1136
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:50,280
was like in a good example of a crowd that

1137
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,679
had to be worked into being interested. They weren't interested

1138
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:54,840
just by default.

1139
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a comment here from Nashville, DA saying the

1140
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,000
highlight was Punk's Minnesota north Stars gear. Definitely hitting the

1141
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:06,000
wayback machine on that one. John says, I like the

1142
00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:08,320
Punk Cody match, but I'm really tired of rough bumps

1143
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,800
and a big match ending in an interference finish. It's

1144
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,480
lazy and Punk not seeing it as laying he couldn't

1145
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:17,119
hear the crap pop or the r KO. Yeah, I

1146
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,679
was more forgiving because there it wasn't up and down

1147
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:22,280
the card.

1148
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:22,679
Speaker 4: You know.

1149
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: I think sometimes w W a t V is especially

1150
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,960
guilty of the not so much the rough bumps, but

1151
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:35,400
the interference or the distraction finishes. But up and down

1152
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,960
this card it was it was pretty you know, you

1153
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:42,199
had the interference in I think it was live an

1154
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,280
EO right and that, but it didn't lead to the finish.

1155
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,199
So this this to me, right, this was the only

1156
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,800
one you had that, So it was you know, I'll

1157
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,519
give it a pass this time. Plus, you know, I

1158
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:55,960
think fans are more willing to give it to pass

1159
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,400
because if Randy were a big star coming back. Yeah,

1160
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,199
and again you can your mileage may vary on that.

1161
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,239
It certainly it doesn't necessarily have to be the consensus.

1162
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,199
Here's one life that Cody Punk's met a majority of

1163
01:00:10,199 --> 01:00:11,920
the mash in the ring and not as many high

1164
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,119
spots like we see. Now, Yeah, that's that could be

1165
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:17,880
you know, the conditioning of the fans over time to

1166
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,519
react to certain spots. And you know, Wade talks about

1167
01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:23,480
this a lot, where you know, the fans are trained

1168
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:27,800
to react to certain spots, to react to certain things

1169
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,960
and not others, and and so that this could be

1170
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:35,880
a byproduct of that as well. Orton versus Cody more

1171
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,679
face versus face, Uh, and no Orton is not a heel,

1172
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,360
crowd will not boo him. Do you believe that? Do

1173
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,760
you believe the crowd won't boom Randy Orton against Cody.

1174
01:00:43,679 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 4: Ros I think it's really hard because he's a legacy

1175
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,239
he's a legacy competitor now where I don't even think

1176
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,119
it's worth turning him hell, to be honest, but I

1177
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:55,960
think it's very indicative of what he did tonight that

1178
01:00:56,079 --> 01:00:58,039
he will be a heill going forward. I do think

1179
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:00,840
that's going to be swimming upstream. Though. He's got that

1180
01:01:01,079 --> 01:01:03,880
legacy reaction from the fans, which makes it hard to

1181
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,840
not like the guy, right, especially because now you see

1182
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:09,960
like happy Randy where you kind of know that he's

1183
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:12,719
not like a dick as a person anymore. And I

1184
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,360
think most people know that, and so I think it's

1185
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:16,320
hard to go back from that.

1186
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: So you think, do you think they will go full

1187
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:22,000
one hundred percent heel or will it be just kind

1188
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:26,239
of not you know, more of a heelish Orton but

1189
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:27,559
not one hundred percent heel.

1190
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 4: If that makes sense, I think they'll go one hundred

1191
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,440
percent He'll Orton. I think the one thing that could

1192
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,599
help him get over as a heel is if they

1193
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:39,039
put Sampunk against him. And I think if you if

1194
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:41,440
you have Punk take the side against Orton, even if

1195
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,000
they don't rustle each other, I think it will make

1196
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,639
I think it will get It will be more likely

1197
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,679
to boo Randy Orton maybe standing in the ring against

1198
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,280
Sam Punk, because against Cody, I think it's going to

1199
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:53,679
be at best fifty to fifty.

1200
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: And you can see a scenario where that plays out right.

1201
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,440
Punk is upset that Orton interrupts his match again roads

1202
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,760
where they were wanting to find out who is truly

1203
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,559
the best, and you know, Punk maybe stands up to

1204
01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:06,400
Orton at some point down the line and that leads

1205
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,079
to a Punk Orton pay per viewmatch perhaps.

1206
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:12,119
Speaker 4: Yeah. And you also said, like at the beginning when

1207
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:15,440
we start talking about this match, that CM Punk should

1208
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,599
give a rematch to Cody. But I think there's a

1209
01:02:18,719 --> 01:02:20,760
reason he won't, and that's because you have a Number

1210
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,800
one contenders match tomorrow. And so I think that kind

1211
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,519
of that kind of creates a roadblock where he doesn't

1212
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:30,000
have to look like he's he's avoiding a rematch. He

1213
01:02:30,119 --> 01:02:32,280
already has a number one contender set up. It's kind

1214
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,440
of out of his hands so he doesn't have to

1215
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:36,480
avoid it, right, which would be a hint.

1216
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: How does Roads react to that? Is he upset that

1217
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,599
Punk won't give him a rematch? You know, you don't

1218
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:45,079
want to go the Sammy's Ain full crime and complaining style.

1219
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:47,440
But I mean, Roades certainly has a case if he

1220
01:02:47,519 --> 01:02:49,840
wanted to make it that he deserves a rematch. And

1221
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,800
if Punk says no, no, no, I've got this number

1222
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,719
one contender over here, does Rose just say, ah, okay,

1223
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,960
I'll go dance with Randy Orton over here for a while,

1224
01:02:57,079 --> 01:02:59,519
or does he protest and say I don't care that

1225
01:02:59,559 --> 01:03:01,440
you've got this number one consender, you owe me or

1226
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:02,159
remash first.

1227
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:06,639
Speaker 4: Well, if I put my valiant baby face cape on,

1228
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,679
I think that he needs to defend his honor by

1229
01:03:09,719 --> 01:03:12,079
taking out Randy Orton, because Randy Orton is the guy

1230
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:14,800
who got in his way, and he's kind of he's

1231
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,840
got that unfinished business where his soul is not going

1232
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,480
to be cleansed until he cleanses it of Randy Orton,

1233
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,840
which puts him on a side journey before he gets

1234
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,920
back to his focus of the title. And I think

1235
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,639
that's a fan that's a side journey that makes sense

1236
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,559
with fans, you know, like, oh yeah, well, of course

1237
01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:34,960
he can't just at want the title back. He's got

1238
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:37,039
to put Randy in his place. You know, Randy kicked

1239
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,559
him in the head at WrestleMania and then screwed up

1240
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:42,079
his title match at SummerSlam. I need to go after

1241
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:43,159
him and beat him first.

1242
01:03:50,119 --> 01:03:53,079
Speaker 6: Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn

1243
01:03:53,199 --> 01:03:57,039
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast every

1244
01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:00,400
Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast Feed. Alex and

1245
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:03,719
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by

1246
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,559
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.

1247
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:10,239
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the

1248
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,480
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as

1249
01:04:13,559 --> 01:04:16,960
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties

1250
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:20,360
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

1251
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:32,719
Speaker 2: All Right, the main event, brock Lesner versus Obafemi, hell

1252
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,719
in us sell. Obafemi gets the victory with stands I

1253
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,400
think it was three f fives and ends up giving

1254
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,199
a power bomb onto I think it was supposed to

1255
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,079
be onto the wood is Brocklesner had peeled up the

1256
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:50,440
ring canvas and exposed the wood, but I think he

1257
01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:55,320
missed that. And then after the match, Lesner puts over Femi.

1258
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,480
On the mic, says Lesner says he Lesner is the past,

1259
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:07,360
Obafemi is the future. So you know, pretty straightforward. I

1260
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,519
my disappointment is that they did not utilize the cell

1261
01:05:11,639 --> 01:05:14,239
structure more. I thought they left a lot on the

1262
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,960
table there by not doing more, because you've got these

1263
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:19,840
two big brutes, and I think people were picturing, oh,

1264
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,159
hell on a sell Man, they're gonna one's gonna get

1265
01:05:22,199 --> 01:05:24,280
thrown through the cage or you know they're going to

1266
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,679
do this. I thought there were a lot of possibilities

1267
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:30,760
with the cage that they didn't fully flesh out. But

1268
01:05:31,679 --> 01:05:36,440
you can't put someone over much stronger than WWE has

1269
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,599
put over Oba Femi, and it's very clear that they

1270
01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:47,039
see him as a top star WrestleMania main eventor perhaps

1271
01:05:47,079 --> 01:05:51,440
as early as twenty twenty seven, you know, he passed

1272
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:56,800
on the opportunity to challenge for a title here at

1273
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:01,519
SummerSlam in order to finish kind of this best of

1274
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:04,480
three that he had going with Brock Lesner. So somewhere

1275
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,760
along the way He's probably going to claim he still

1276
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,440
owed a title match, and that could be at WrestleMania

1277
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,519
next year. So what did you think of the match?

1278
01:06:12,639 --> 01:06:14,599
And I'm curious is what you thought of the post

1279
01:06:14,639 --> 01:06:18,960
match with brock Lesner really going the extra mile to

1280
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:21,239
put over over Femi as the next big thing.

1281
01:06:22,159 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. Like the match, I think it was about right

1282
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:32,599
where my expectation was. I appreciate the aggressiveness, the violence.

1283
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:36,960
No punches are pulled, everything looks like it hurts. They

1284
01:06:37,239 --> 01:06:41,000
sell legitimate. I think that's like the most underappreciated aspect

1285
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:44,119
of brock Lesner is he knows when to get knocked back,

1286
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:47,360
he knows when to get knocked down, he knows when

1287
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,599
to fire up, he knows when to give that facial

1288
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:53,800
expression or something, and a lot of people I think

1289
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,000
they just dumb him down to he's just German suplexes

1290
01:06:57,119 --> 01:06:59,880
and F five's. There is so much more that goes

1291
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:04,199
to that guy's performance that makes it just that a performance,

1292
01:07:04,639 --> 01:07:07,760
and it's a performance that feels about as real as

1293
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,960
it gets. And I think that's what you had in

1294
01:07:10,039 --> 01:07:12,480
this match. I think Opa did a great job with

1295
01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:17,119
his The way I put it is there's different ways

1296
01:07:17,199 --> 01:07:22,840
to sell right, and Oba sells like a courageous, tough babyface.

1297
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,440
He's always fighting to his knees. He knows when to

1298
01:07:26,559 --> 01:07:29,159
fire up and get the crowd involved, but it's not

1299
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,159
too over the top where it's like nineteen eighties babyface,

1300
01:07:32,199 --> 01:07:34,119
I'm pulling my hair out even if I don't have

1301
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,119
any you know, Like he he knows those levels and

1302
01:07:38,239 --> 01:07:40,840
it comes natural to him, and I think that's just

1303
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:44,880
that's why he's going to be a huge star. And

1304
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,800
also I thought they had, you know, I think in

1305
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:50,320
a Brocklesner match that's twelve minutes, you want to have

1306
01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:56,119
three seminal moments that everybody remembers. And those three seminal moments,

1307
01:07:56,199 --> 01:07:59,440
I think we're in this match right. There is the

1308
01:07:59,559 --> 01:08:03,360
kickout out of the fall from Grace, and then the

1309
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,199
sit up and he kicks Oba like I'm not going

1310
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:10,360
to take this shit. This is not Mere's. He gets

1311
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,760
him up for the f five and he transitions into

1312
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,480
the tombstone, and then he tombstones him and does the

1313
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:18,520
Undertaker pin. People are going to remember that and play

1314
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,680
that in WW videos for the next twenty years. It'll

1315
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:23,760
be in the video game when they do their little

1316
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,720
video game, add things in the next five and then

1317
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,800
the final finish where Oba beats him and they embrace

1318
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,000
at the end. Those moments will live on forever. And

1319
01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:38,479
it's not every WWE event where we get those moments

1320
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,239
that are going to live on in fandom as long

1321
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,439
as someone doesn't commit a heinous murder and gets to

1322
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,760
race from history for the next like fifteen or twenty years.

1323
01:08:47,039 --> 01:08:48,000
And they created those.

1324
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 2: Time knocking on wood there for that, Yeah for sure. Yeah,

1325
01:08:53,039 --> 01:08:55,880
and you know there was another moment that brock Lesner

1326
01:08:56,159 --> 01:09:00,800
doing the tombstone pile driver. Yeah, absolutely, message there Lessner

1327
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:03,479
being the one to end the Undertaker's wrestle media win

1328
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,760
streak and Op kicks out of the tombstone pile driver

1329
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,520
that listener used on the wood by the way there.

1330
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,399
So so it sounds like my next question, but I

1331
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:14,680
think you kind of answered it was going to be

1332
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,720
how big can be? I mean, does he have the traits?

1333
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,239
Do you see the traits in him today? And granted

1334
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:25,399
he could get even better, but do you see the

1335
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,039
traits in him today to where he can be that

1336
01:09:28,239 --> 01:09:32,159
future star that carries the WWE brand, Because I think

1337
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,800
by his booking, WWE certainly sees that as his ceiling

1338
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:37,119
right now.

1339
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 4: So my only worry is that they see him as

1340
01:09:43,159 --> 01:09:47,680
that overly dominant champion, which doesn't have a lot of

1341
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,039
staying power at the top because they can only go

1342
01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:55,359
against these opponents like if they're unbeatable and undefeatable. They

1343
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,439
only can wrestle these few people and their matches can

1344
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,880
only go like this. But if you watch his NXT run,

1345
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,800
and I watched all of his NXT run, every NXT episode,

1346
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:10,119
every nxtpl what was most impressive to me about Oba

1347
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,920
is the fact that he could rustle smaller guys Leon Slater.

1348
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,479
He had a great match against Leon Slater, had a

1349
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,199
great match against Javon Evans, had a believable match against

1350
01:10:20,279 --> 01:10:23,760
Ricky Saints. He's wrestling guys who are not anywhere close

1351
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,680
to his physically imposing as he is, but the way

1352
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,199
he sells makes the match believable but doesn't make him

1353
01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:34,279
look weak, and it's a really strong match. Most big

1354
01:10:34,319 --> 01:10:36,520
guys can't do that, which is why they have bronz

1355
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,159
Stroman runs where they get to the top, they get

1356
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:42,079
knocked down, they have to do comedic elements and then

1357
01:10:42,159 --> 01:10:45,239
sometimes they get put back. Is a physically dominant force.

1358
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,159
Oba doesn't have to follow that trajectory or that path

1359
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,399
because he does have all the tools to do it.

1360
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,319
They just need to allow him to use those tools.

1361
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,039
And if they don't allow him to use those tools

1362
01:10:57,119 --> 01:11:00,680
soon enough, then people will see it as well, why

1363
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,279
is he selling for a small guy? So I think

1364
01:11:03,319 --> 01:11:05,560
you in the next six months you have to have

1365
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,439
him wrestle a competitive match against someone who's smaller than

1366
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,279
him to allow that to sink into people that that

1367
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:11,920
is okay.

1368
01:11:13,399 --> 01:11:16,520
Speaker 2: What do you think the chances are of Because brock Lesner,

1369
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,239
whether or not he retires with this match or has

1370
01:11:19,279 --> 01:11:21,199
another match or two in him, he is at the

1371
01:11:21,359 --> 01:11:25,159
end of the line. What are the chances the WWEC

1372
01:11:25,159 --> 01:11:28,920
sees Obafemi as their new brock Lesner. And I mean

1373
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,600
that in terms of match style, where he not not

1374
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,840
the schedule obviously wrestle more, but just kind of taking

1375
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,960
on that there's a certain style to brock Listners matches

1376
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,680
that he has wrestled over the last decade where it's

1377
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,680
kind of get in, do the big moves, get up

1378
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,800
style match with the passing. You know, you could almost

1379
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,600
say it's a literal passing of the torch here where

1380
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,039
Oba is really taking over the brock Lesner mantle for

1381
01:11:52,279 --> 01:11:54,479
that style of match to be offered on pay per view.

1382
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,960
Do you think do you think they're going that direction

1383
01:11:57,159 --> 01:11:59,039
with Oba Femi to kind of take over that brock

1384
01:11:59,119 --> 01:11:59,800
Lesner style.

1385
01:12:01,079 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 4: I worry they are, and I think that limits him.

1386
01:12:05,039 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: Do you think he has more to offer than that?

1387
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,239
That's too limiting for him?

1388
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 4: Is that? Well? And and and it's not only that

1389
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:13,399
I think he has more to offer. I've seen that

1390
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,960
he has more to offer, and I think most fans

1391
01:12:16,079 --> 01:12:18,359
like did you watch NXT GRAG or have seen those

1392
01:12:18,399 --> 01:12:20,920
matches I'm talking about, so you know what I'm talking about,

1393
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,479
Like how much? What do you think Javon Evans weighs

1394
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:28,720
one hundred pounds maybe more, maybe more or less than

1395
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:33,000
than Oba? Right, yeah, and he's like a skinny guy, right,

1396
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,680
But I believed that he could knock Oba down because

1397
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,159
he knocked Oba back twice before he knocked him down.

1398
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,720
That not only shows the ability of Javon, but that's

1399
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,880
a skill that that Oba has and knows how to

1400
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,359
use it. And I think that just makes the main

1401
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:52,319
event seen in WWE a lot more exciting because if

1402
01:12:52,359 --> 01:12:54,760
you ask me right now, who would you rather have

1403
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,720
as a long term champion, bron Breaker or Oba Femei.

1404
01:12:59,079 --> 01:13:02,279
My answer would be, as long as they don't put

1405
01:13:02,319 --> 01:13:05,000
those limitations on Oba Fami, and then I'll get bored

1406
01:13:05,039 --> 01:13:07,600
of him in that main event level real quick, where

1407
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,640
I know everybody already knows that bron Breaker can wrestle anybody,

1408
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,079
any size, and it's going to be okay if it's

1409
01:13:13,119 --> 01:13:15,960
fifteen or twenty minutes. But if you pigeonhole Oba that

1410
01:13:16,039 --> 01:13:17,880
he can only wrestle guys and has to beat him

1411
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,199
in ten minutes, well then I don't want to see

1412
01:13:20,239 --> 01:13:21,920
his matches as much, and I don't want to see

1413
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,279
him at the top of the card for the next

1414
01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:26,720
ten to fifteen years, right, So yeah.

1415
01:13:27,279 --> 01:13:29,159
Speaker 2: All right, Well before we get to Sean here, we'll

1416
01:13:29,159 --> 01:13:31,319
go to him next. A couple more plugs to get

1417
01:13:31,399 --> 01:13:34,399
in search pw Torch in your podcast app to subscribe

1418
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,520
to the Torch Daily Cast lineup for free new shows

1419
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,399
with different hosts every day of the week. You can

1420
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,319
also subscribe on your podcast app to this post show,

1421
01:13:44,319 --> 01:13:47,600
which is the red logo, and our regular Flagship Flagship

1422
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,680
podcast feed, which is the Blue logo. Search Waight Color

1423
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,560
on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app.

1424
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,880
We'd like to grow our YouTube page here at the

1425
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:58,600
Torch stow. In order to do that, please like the

1426
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,359
show comment below and subscribe to our channel. And finally,

1427
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:07,640
if you are interested in writing for The Torch, covering

1428
01:14:08,079 --> 01:14:12,119
professional wrestling for The Torch in some capacity as a

1429
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:16,159
contributor with written weekly reports and who knows, one day

1430
01:14:16,199 --> 01:14:18,680
you could appear as my co host on Wrestling Night

1431
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,199
in America on a post show. Here you can email

1432
01:14:21,239 --> 01:14:26,039
Wad kellorwadeat gmail dot com. I always like to plug

1433
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:32,000
if you have an interesting slant on something that's something

1434
01:14:32,039 --> 01:14:34,079
you'd want to reach out to Wade about, especially if

1435
01:14:34,079 --> 01:14:37,520
it could be like a weekly column. He loves when

1436
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:42,119
you have just an interesting way to look at professional wrestling,

1437
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:44,560
So if you have an idea for that, Wade would

1438
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,920
love to hear from your Kellerwade at gmail dot com.

1439
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:52,920
Sean is ready to join us, So Sean VIP member

1440
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,479
Peter w Torch contributor bon Vivant. I guess Sean is

1441
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:02,960
here with us this evening. Sean, thank you for joining us.

1442
01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:05,479
Thanks for hanging on while we worked through the card

1443
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,560
and I guess I just want to jump to you

1444
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,680
and where you want to take us here to start.

1445
01:15:11,319 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 7: Well, first, I will say, as much as I love Wade,

1446
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:15,359
I will never be a contributor to the site only

1447
01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:17,319
because I'm not a writer and that would suck. You

1448
01:15:17,359 --> 01:15:19,000
would not want to see my articles. They would be

1449
01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:21,680
terrible in so many ways just from the writing. Wade

1450
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,199
would want to kill me because my grammar would probably

1451
01:15:24,199 --> 01:15:27,119
be awful, my punctuation, punctuation would be probably be terrible, and.

1452
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 4: All that stuff.

1453
01:15:28,119 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 3: So going there, Greg, I hope your wife and daughter

1454
01:15:31,119 --> 01:15:31,359
do well.

1455
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 7: I haven't been out to talk to you in a while,

1456
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:34,319
so I hope the family's doing good, and I hope

1457
01:15:34,319 --> 01:15:35,239
you're doing well, my friend.

1458
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 2: Thank you. Everything's going well. The school starts for me

1459
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,319
on Tuesday, so this is kind of my last hurrahs

1460
01:15:43,079 --> 01:15:45,840
before that starts. That's part of the reason why I'm

1461
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:49,159
doing all of this this week for opportunity to plug here.

1462
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:52,520
I was on the Flagship with Wade on Tuesday pwtorch

1463
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:55,359
dot com Parks's take. Later in the week, I covered

1464
01:15:55,399 --> 01:15:57,920
two New Japan shows. I was on the aw Redemption

1465
01:15:58,039 --> 01:16:00,720
post show last week on SummerSlam post shows tonight, So

1466
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:04,600
I'm fitting everything in here in the last moments before

1467
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,000
I head back to school and my free time is

1468
01:16:07,119 --> 01:16:08,239
much more limited.

1469
01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1470
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 3: Well, it's good to see Derek. I tell you all

1471
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:12,079
the time.

1472
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 7: It's always a pleasure. And when I get to tati

1473
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,840
on here get to chat with you any time I can.

1474
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,560
So yeah, so uh going what you said about Oba, Derek,

1475
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,720
I'm with you one hundred percent. That's the one thing

1476
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,439
about Brock that I had been had been driving me

1477
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,920
crazy honestly about him, even though I love what he's

1478
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:29,840
done over the years, is I just his matches are

1479
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,520
all the same and I I just it's it's time

1480
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,840
to do something different. And that's the only thing I

1481
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,479
didn't like about the match tonight, Greg you said earlier,

1482
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,039
is I you know, I feel like I know the

1483
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:42,359
I think the goal was Brock can never lost a

1484
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:44,439
Helena Cell match, and that was the goal to get

1485
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,439
over to win beat him and Helena Cell, which is

1486
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:48,359
which I I'm okay with. But I think if you're

1487
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:50,800
gonna have a cell, let's use it a little bit.

1488
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,600
Let's get a little bit. I would have been okay

1489
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,000
with even a little bit of blood. I'm like, if

1490
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:56,520
you're gonna go these guys wanting to kill each you know,

1491
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:58,800
beat each other up bad. I would have done at

1492
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,680
least a little bit more to get that effect. I mean,

1493
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,119
they can still do what they were doing in the

1494
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:04,520
midst of.

1495
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,039
Speaker 3: The match, but I'm like, give me a little bit more.

1496
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:10,560
Speaker 7: But again, that's what Brock has done is whole the

1497
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,760
last two, three, four years, and it's just the way

1498
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,399
it's gonna be. And so Oba, like you said, I

1499
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,680
saw his match with Moose and NXT and it was

1500
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,039
so good. It was so good, so well worked, and

1501
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:24,359
it was just a long match where Oba did multiple

1502
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:26,800
He's got multiple things he's good at, and I just

1503
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:28,920
don't want to get him, like you said, snowball and

1504
01:17:29,039 --> 01:17:30,119
just one kind of match.

1505
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 3: It'd be rough on him.

1506
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 1: Before pushing play on the way Keller Pro Wrestling post shows,

1507
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,279
check out pw torch dot com and our TV review

1508
01:17:39,359 --> 01:17:42,159
section and skim through a full rundown of the TV

1509
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:43,880
show if you didn't see it, that's your way to

1510
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,760
get an overview of what happened before you dive into

1511
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,239
our in depth analysis of the key happenings on the show.

1512
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,479
That's pw torch dot Com you're home for live TV

1513
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,640
coverage every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with my TV Reports,

1514
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:58,640
and also check out our NXT and Impact coverage on

1515
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,560
Tuesdays and Thursdays, are Collision reports on Saturday nights, and

1516
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:03,479
of course our live pay per view and Ple coverage

1517
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,079
on weekends, all waiting for you at PW torch dot com.

1518
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 4: My other worry to Sean and Greg that I see

1519
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,399
is when you kind of make your main event attraction

1520
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,439
a guy who's only attraction, where you know he's not

1521
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,600
going to wrestle on week to week television. It makes

1522
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,399
the build up to matches a lot more difficult. And

1523
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:27,000
then you run into what we have with Roman reigns

1524
01:18:27,039 --> 01:18:29,840
and seth rollins, where you know Romans not going to

1525
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:32,239
be wrestling on TV, so you can't have a wrestling

1526
01:18:32,359 --> 01:18:35,720
match lead to a deferent chapter in the angle. So

1527
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:40,640
what are you left with? Face to face contract signing promo?

1528
01:18:41,079 --> 01:18:43,600
You know, and you don't get like the match leading

1529
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,640
to an angle. And I don't want them to think

1530
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,439
that Oba is such a novelty that he can't wrestle

1531
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,960
on television. I want to see him wrestle on television

1532
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:55,960
like there was something magical about the Attitude era where

1533
01:18:56,159 --> 01:18:58,840
Stone called Steve Austin was on television and he wrestled

1534
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:05,079
probably every other week, every other week for two years. Right,

1535
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:07,239
So I tuned in because I know I get to

1536
01:19:07,279 --> 01:19:09,359
see Stone Cold and a lot of times I also

1537
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:11,600
get to see Stone Cold wrestle, and I want that

1538
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,479
as a top baby face. And Oba's young enough where

1539
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:16,800
there's no reason that you shouldn't be wrestling on television

1540
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:17,279
every week.

1541
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 7: Right, No, I agree, I agree. And about Brock too,

1542
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,960
I you brought up you know, could I really think

1543
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:26,079
this needs to be it. I really think he had

1544
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:28,920
a great career. I appreciate everything he brought to the

1545
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,640
business of B and UFC of course before you you know,

1546
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,000
as well as to B. But I just again, the

1547
01:19:35,039 --> 01:19:39,279
matches are the same, and I don't think people have said, well,

1548
01:19:39,319 --> 01:19:41,840
you could have braun Breaker beat him, But what does

1549
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,479
that do for braun Breaker at this point.

1550
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,680
Speaker 3: Everybody's beating Brock at this point. I mean, it doesn't

1551
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:47,960
really do anything for Braun to beat Brock.

1552
01:19:48,039 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 7: I mean, we've seen Brock lose eight nine matches in

1553
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:53,000
the last four years.

1554
01:19:53,239 --> 01:19:55,520
Speaker 3: I just don't think, oh, Bron to me.

1555
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 7: He's already over enough where he's gonna be fine that

1556
01:19:58,039 --> 01:19:59,680
he doesn't have to beat Brock to get a big

1557
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,640
win to solidify what he can do. We've seen what

1558
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,439
he can do already, Russell Punk He's had. I mean, yeah,

1559
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:07,359
he's in the taxing division right now, but he's gonna

1560
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:08,640
get out of that soon and he'll move on to

1561
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,199
bigger and better things. So I just think this Brock

1562
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,079
had a great career. I think it should end now.

1563
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:13,960
I think I should be it.

1564
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, look, I think I think you know you

1565
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,960
mentioned Broun Breaker, you mentioned and I will mention and

1566
01:20:23,039 --> 01:20:24,880
I keep bringing this up on audio. You know, I

1567
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,000
thought gun Through versus Brock Lesner was the match for

1568
01:20:27,039 --> 01:20:30,640
Summer Slam. You can do that here, So you know,

1569
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,680
gun Through versus Lesner I would have an interest in seeing.

1570
01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:39,960
But really like the number of really intriguing matches for

1571
01:20:40,079 --> 01:20:42,960
Lesner is super limited. And you're right, Sean, like the

1572
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:47,479
cachet of beating Brock Lessner, I don't think is there.

1573
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:51,520
And you know you have Obafemi beating him here and

1574
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:55,279
that's supposed to really catapult O feed me into the stratosphere.

1575
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:58,039
But if you follow that with gun through beating Brock

1576
01:20:58,119 --> 01:21:02,600
Lessner or broad Bray beating Brock Listener then retroactively, what

1577
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:04,239
did that over? Femme me win really meant?

1578
01:21:04,319 --> 01:21:05,640
Speaker 3: Aut exactly know what I'm saying.

1579
01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 2: And maybe you know, maybe he's because he's beat him twice,

1580
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:11,319
beat him two out of three matches, maybe that carries

1581
01:21:11,399 --> 01:21:15,279
more weight. But you know, I again, I think there

1582
01:21:15,279 --> 01:21:17,239
are a couple of matches that I would be interested

1583
01:21:17,319 --> 01:21:19,840
in seeing. But I would also be super okay if

1584
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,479
Lessner walked away after this. I don't feel like he's

1585
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,199
leaving a lot left on the table if he does that.

1586
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 4: And to add to that, because I agree with you,

1587
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:32,920
I would be more than fine if this is Brock's

1588
01:21:33,039 --> 01:21:35,760
last match for these reasons. First of all, I'd be

1589
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:37,760
afraid if they are going to set him up for

1590
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,880
bron breaker that based on the mentality that you guys

1591
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,159
are talking about, where he's already taken a loss and

1592
01:21:44,199 --> 01:21:46,680
he's damage, well, then their thought process is going to be,

1593
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:49,600
now you have to sacrifice a few people to build

1594
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,720
him back up to dominant so he can lose to Brock. Right,

1595
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,079
I was just like, well, is he worse? Is it worse?

1596
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,399
Is it worth sacrificing a few people to him, because

1597
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:00,399
that's what they did with John Cena last year yours.

1598
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,520
They sacrificed John Cena to build Brock back up, So

1599
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:06,640
it means something when Brock gets beat by obat Rustlemania,

1600
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,239
which is a solid mentality, But I'm just kind of like,

1601
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,039
do I want to see him run through two guys

1602
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,760
so he can lose to another guy and then leave?

1603
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:17,600
And to me, my answer is a simple no. And

1604
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,399
also I think that this is this is where I

1605
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,800
stand with Brock right now. Is I love the fact

1606
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,720
that if this was his last match, he didn't look old.

1607
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:30,439
He didn't look weathered forty nine.

1608
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 3: How is he still looking like that at forty He didn't.

1609
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 4: Look fragile because it felt bad watching the Undertaker in

1610
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:39,319
his last matches because he looked fragile, and it just

1611
01:22:39,399 --> 01:22:42,399
didn't feel good as a wrestling fan, and even triple

1612
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,239
h he's my favorite wrestler of all time. The last

1613
01:22:45,279 --> 01:22:46,960
few matches he was in the ring when he was

1614
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:49,520
running the rope, so I was like, Eh, he doesn't

1615
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,720
he doesn't move like he used to. It doesn't feel

1616
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,920
like it used to. And there was something beautiful about

1617
01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:00,319
Sean Michael's real retirement. He left at the top, and

1618
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:02,760
you got a Sean Michael's performance in his last match,

1619
01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:06,239
you got a brock Lessner performance. If this was his

1620
01:23:06,399 --> 01:23:09,880
last match. I don't want to see an old, weathered,

1621
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,359
tired brock Lessener who it looks like I could beat

1622
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:18,039
him up. I want in my mind to always think

1623
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:21,239
that Brocklessener could chew me up, spit me out, and

1624
01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:23,760
eat me as chopped liver and steak for the next

1625
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,079
six months. That's what his appeal is. Don't kill the

1626
01:23:27,159 --> 01:23:30,479
aura by doing and it only takes one too many,

1627
01:23:31,039 --> 01:23:33,520
that one match too many, and you never know when

1628
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,319
that match is going to be. And if he ends

1629
01:23:35,359 --> 01:23:37,800
it right now, we know it's not one match too many.

1630
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:39,479
So I would get out.

1631
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:43,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you. So that's pretty much what I

1632
01:23:43,119 --> 01:23:44,279
had on that Oba's a big star.

1633
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:45,079
Speaker 4: I love it.

1634
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:48,319
Speaker 7: I just don't have Oba beat up cops anymore. Please,

1635
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:52,079
just don't have Oba beat up any more cops like I.

1636
01:23:52,119 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 4: Have a fix? Did I set this yesterday in a post?

1637
01:23:56,119 --> 01:23:59,319
So if a Hill is going to beat up law enforcement,

1638
01:24:00,039 --> 01:24:03,439
I think they should beat up police officers because that

1639
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,399
gets heat, right, Like if you beat up police officers

1640
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:09,079
I know in Utah. I like the police officers, my

1641
01:24:09,159 --> 01:24:11,760
school cop. He is a wonderful human being. I love

1642
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,399
the guy. I hug him every day. He's a great dude.

1643
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:16,920
But if you're gonna have a babyface that has to

1644
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:20,000
beat up law enforcement, just make him ice agents. Like

1645
01:24:20,159 --> 01:24:23,079
nobody likes ice agents, so if they beat him up,

1646
01:24:23,119 --> 01:24:24,720
we'll all feel good about it. In fact, if you

1647
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,439
put like ice agent with like a hat from Minnesota,

1648
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,800
I think everyone would feel great and well.

1649
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,560
Speaker 3: I'll plead I'll just leave that alone. I wouldn't do it, period.

1650
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,279
I just think it's bad. I wouldn't.

1651
01:24:37,279 --> 01:24:40,319
Speaker 7: I mean, I think, yeah, I'm not even get involved

1652
01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:42,199
in that, but I see what your point is, but

1653
01:24:42,399 --> 01:24:44,199
I just don't do it.

1654
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,039
Speaker 3: It's not good for him. So other than that, he's

1655
01:24:47,039 --> 01:24:48,560
a big star. I'm excited for him.

1656
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 7: Going backwards to the matches, I thought Cody punk again.

1657
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:55,319
Slow for me doesn't mean bad. I think people think,

1658
01:24:55,399 --> 01:24:58,279
oh it's if it's slow, it's it's not good. It

1659
01:24:58,399 --> 01:25:01,199
was a really good match, really well worked match of

1660
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:03,960
physical match where they were they were wanting to win

1661
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,319
the championship and it meant something and it was important.

1662
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,479
I thought the table spot. Initially I didn't when I

1663
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,960
was when I saw it happen live, I was like,

1664
01:25:12,079 --> 01:25:14,520
oh why, I'm nervous, like I don't know if Punk

1665
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,640
and Land this, but it made sense, like he tried

1666
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:19,199
to beat him a couple of times, it didn't work.

1667
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 3: He's all right, I gotta get it out here. I

1668
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,399
got to end it out here, and it didn't work.

1669
01:25:23,319 --> 01:25:25,600
Speaker 7: But then I'm I disagree with you guys in the

1670
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,600
fact of I know you said, okay, yeah, there was

1671
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:32,960
only one, you know, ref bump, But I don't excuse

1672
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,960
it because there's only one. I don't like every I

1673
01:25:36,039 --> 01:25:39,279
feel like ninety five percent of W Well, I mean.

1674
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:42,159
Speaker 2: If you're asking me, would I prefer to see a

1675
01:25:42,239 --> 01:25:44,880
match end cleanly without a ref bump? Absolutely, that would

1676
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:47,439
be my preference. But I think it was easier to

1677
01:25:48,079 --> 01:25:52,479
tolerate on this particular night because there was only one.

1678
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 3: So I think, I don't. I don't, I don't.

1679
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 7: I don't when it happens in ninety it happens in

1680
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,960
ninety five percent of WB title matches, it happens in

1681
01:26:01,039 --> 01:26:03,920
most all of them, So if it happened in twenty

1682
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:05,800
percent of title matches, I would excuse it.

1683
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:07,199
Speaker 3: I'd be like, Okay, I can live with it. But

1684
01:26:07,279 --> 01:26:08,239
they do it, Greg.

1685
01:26:08,319 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 7: They do it all the time. It happens every title match.

1686
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,560
So I just other than in Little Nature just sells

1687
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:16,399
them so bad. I mean, it just makes them look

1688
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,079
even worse. And I love Little NH, but like he

1689
01:26:19,319 --> 01:26:22,439
just acts like he got shot by a by a

1690
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,359
rifle and like he's never gonna come back.

1691
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 3: When she came back quicker.

1692
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 7: Tonight, I'll give him that he did come back quicker.

1693
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:34,039
But Orton Cody, I I do still like the match

1694
01:26:34,199 --> 01:26:37,000
and I do like the feud. But yes, I'm worried

1695
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:40,159
about the matches because of Orton's style. I don't love

1696
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:42,560
his style and certain when he's going up against Cody,

1697
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,960
and even though they have backstory, they have all that stuff,

1698
01:26:45,119 --> 01:26:47,479
but I'm a little worried that it's going to go

1699
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,199
a little south. But one thing, I do hope for

1700
01:26:50,319 --> 01:26:53,439
Punk because I like that Punk retained tonight for sure,

1701
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:57,680
you know you know he's got I do hope I

1702
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:59,960
want Kao. I'm worried about Kao's neck. I don't know

1703
01:27:00,159 --> 01:27:03,840
how healthy his neck is, but if he's able to

1704
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:05,720
come back, the more I thought about it if you

1705
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:08,479
have Punk and Orton, you do Punk and Orton, and

1706
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,279
then to me, you have punkin Kevin Owens.

1707
01:27:11,359 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 3: That is so fresh.

1708
01:27:13,159 --> 01:27:15,279
Speaker 7: If you bring Kevin Owens back, which I know and

1709
01:27:15,359 --> 01:27:17,880
I've said I said in the chat, I think last

1710
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:22,079
night even you know, when Ko first comes back, it's

1711
01:27:22,119 --> 01:27:24,720
hard not to cheer him because people love Ko, They've

1712
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:29,319
loved him for so long. But if he comes back

1713
01:27:29,399 --> 01:27:32,640
and eventually turns back heel, which I think ultimately is

1714
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,720
the best spot for Ko punk Ko is such a

1715
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,119
fresh feud man we have never seen that. That would

1716
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:39,199
be so fresh.

1717
01:27:39,359 --> 01:27:42,079
Speaker 3: We need that WWB right now. We need a few

1718
01:27:42,199 --> 01:27:45,279
that we have not seen and that would be so awesome.

1719
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 7: And I hope that Ko can do that and he's

1720
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,199
able to come back and make that happen, because I

1721
01:27:50,279 --> 01:27:52,560
think that would be a fresh feud for Ko himself

1722
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,159
to sink his teeth into is a heel and it's

1723
01:27:55,199 --> 01:27:57,239
Punk to come right back at him on the mic

1724
01:27:57,239 --> 01:27:59,000
as a baby face. That would be so much fun

1725
01:27:59,079 --> 01:28:00,319
and the crowd I think would be What.

1726
01:28:00,359 --> 01:28:02,399
Speaker 3: Do you guys think of that? If K was healthy?

1727
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:04,239
Is that a few that you guys would love to see?

1728
01:28:05,199 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 4: Great?

1729
01:28:07,239 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and That's something that we didn't touch on here tonight.

1730
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:13,239
The reports that Kevin Owens is training to come back.

1731
01:28:13,279 --> 01:28:16,039
He's been at the Performance Center working out, so that's

1732
01:28:16,079 --> 01:28:17,960
a good sign. He's been out for quite a while

1733
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:24,760
and certainly the roster needs him, you know. It's it's

1734
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:30,159
getting to be where the top stars they've kind of

1735
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:32,840
done their dance with each other and we're kind of

1736
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:35,439
going back to repeats now with Randy whort versus co Yarroads.

1737
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:37,920
So putting Kevin Owens back in that, I mean a

1738
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,279
lot of interesting stuff. You talk about Kevin Owens versus

1739
01:28:40,279 --> 01:28:42,600
se him Punk, You talk about Kevin Owens, what's his

1740
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,960
reaction to Sammy's aim his best friend who has been

1741
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:54,800
just going crazy lately? Is is would Kevin Owens be

1742
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,920
considered one of the Sammy's a day one diehards that

1743
01:28:59,039 --> 01:29:03,000
he talks about every week. So dropping Kevin Owens into

1744
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:09,279
this atmosphere, I think would be a good would be

1745
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,720
really good in terms of just needing a fresh face

1746
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:14,560
at the top of the car, which Kevin Owens can bring.

1747
01:29:16,319 --> 01:29:19,399
Speaker 4: I'm the only thing I'm really cautious about Sean is

1748
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:22,760
I think Kevin Owens is at a stage in his

1749
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:26,760
career where he can never really be a heel because

1750
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,640
even fans like us, we will boo him knowing that

1751
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,479
we like what he's doing, But when we forget about

1752
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,399
booing him, we'll still cheer him because he's really good

1753
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,479
at what he does, right, So it's not real. It's

1754
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:44,159
never going to be real heat right. And also, like

1755
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:51,000
his defining characteristic is sarcasm. Sarcasm doesn't make you a heel.

1756
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,640
It makes you witty and it makes people like you.

1757
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:56,399
So when he was at his guest as a heel,

1758
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:59,560
he would say something sarcastic and it was supposed to

1759
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:03,399
get he and we would be like, oh, that was clever. Yeah,

1760
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,920
I want to see Kevin some more, right, So I

1761
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,760
would not turn him heel. In fact, he is like

1762
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:09,880
one of those guys who I don't think he should

1763
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,279
ever be a heel again in his career because I

1764
01:30:12,319 --> 01:30:13,560
think it's swimming upstream.

1765
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 2: So one of the things he also one of the

1766
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:18,720
things Office has taken to account. Sorry Derek to butt in,

1767
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,600
but you know his coming back from this neck injury,

1768
01:30:22,039 --> 01:30:24,439
like that's going to automatically babyface him, and who's going

1769
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,560
to want to cheer against this guy who's who's coming

1770
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,600
back from this career threatening injury.

1771
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 4: So the Kevin Owens few that I want to see

1772
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,479
because it's novel and it keeps the alignment where you

1773
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:38,000
have that feel good aura with him coming back from

1774
01:30:38,039 --> 01:30:41,399
a neck injury against a villain that nobody likes. Is

1775
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,359
Kevin Owens and Gunter, I think is a perfect is

1776
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:47,319
a perfect matchup. We've never seen it, to my knowledge,

1777
01:30:47,359 --> 01:30:49,840
we've never seen it. They both have kind of a

1778
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:53,600
brawling style, but it's it's similar, very but it's very

1779
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:57,000
different where I think it can be very complimentary, right,

1780
01:30:57,119 --> 01:31:00,359
it won't contrast, it will compliment. And I want to

1781
01:31:00,399 --> 01:31:02,199
see it because I we've never seen it, and I

1782
01:31:02,279 --> 01:31:06,520
think it's a great It's a great feud that would

1783
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:09,119
freshen up smack down for months. Really.

1784
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I don't disagree, and that's why I say

1785
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:14,800
when he comes back, the fans are gonna go nuts

1786
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:15,079
for him.

1787
01:31:15,119 --> 01:31:16,359
Speaker 3: And that's what I worry.

1788
01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:18,159
Speaker 7: If you're you know, if you do turn him heel

1789
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:21,239
or try to turn him heel, I think the fans

1790
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:23,760
would if you're going up against a punk or somebody,

1791
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:25,760
I think the fans would boo him because I think

1792
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,479
the fans love punk too, where I think they would if.

1793
01:31:28,399 --> 01:31:30,079
Speaker 3: You're sinking your teeth into it, they could.

1794
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:32,560
Speaker 7: But another thing too, is I said this last night,

1795
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:35,399
I would I know we've seen it a lot, but

1796
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:36,199
I feel like it's.

1797
01:31:36,079 --> 01:31:38,560
Speaker 3: Been enough time and their roles would be different.

1798
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 7: If you have Ko come back and you have him

1799
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:43,760
as a face against Sammy as a heel, I think

1800
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,399
that works better just because we've always seen it. I

1801
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:49,319
mean generally we've always seen it Kao as a heel

1802
01:31:49,359 --> 01:31:51,319
Samy as a face. I think it's different here if

1803
01:31:51,359 --> 01:31:54,760
you do Ko initially kind of get with him, but

1804
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,119
then Sammy does something to him or something.

1805
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,399
Speaker 3: Where you know, we side with Ko, we like Ko better,

1806
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:01,119
and we do that. I know it's old.

1807
01:32:01,119 --> 01:32:02,640
Speaker 7: I know we've seen it a lot, but I think

1808
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:05,640
the roles reversing would help the feud feel a little

1809
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:08,119
more fresh, and then you build the Ko you know,

1810
01:32:08,239 --> 01:32:10,239
gun there later on and then whatever feud you want

1811
01:32:10,279 --> 01:32:11,680
to do with him as a face, which I think

1812
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:13,239
will work because you could do Ko and.

1813
01:32:13,279 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 3: Drew down the line. That makes a lot of sense.

1814
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:16,399
I think that's that's a fresh few.

1815
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,279
Speaker 7: We haven't seen much at all, So I think there's

1816
01:32:19,319 --> 01:32:21,000
good stuff with Ko and and I just hope he's

1817
01:32:21,039 --> 01:32:23,119
healthy and I want him to be healthy because he's

1818
01:32:23,159 --> 01:32:25,840
so dag him good and we've missed him for a

1819
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:27,680
long long time and it'd be good to have him back.

1820
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:31,159
Speaker 3: Going back to the women's real.

1821
01:32:31,159 --> 01:32:33,119
Speaker 7: Quick, I mean, I'm with you, guys, I didn't love

1822
01:32:33,159 --> 01:32:35,720
the match. I just I think Jc's very gotten so

1823
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:38,199
much better. I do think Jayce's improved immensely.

1824
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:43,119
Speaker 3: And I think, I mean again, Nikki was definitely better

1825
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:45,880
than Brie, but not as a low bar. I agree.

1826
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 4: I agree.

1827
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:49,359
Speaker 7: I'm not saying she's great by any means. I just

1828
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,600
think Page I'm higher. I think Page can still be

1829
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:55,199
a great singles competitor. I still think she has a

1830
01:32:55,279 --> 01:32:58,199
high ceiling. I think she's got plenty of time left.

1831
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,039
Now it has a single. I think this is gonna work.

1832
01:33:01,119 --> 01:33:03,039
Have her beat Nicky, have her move on past that.

1833
01:33:03,279 --> 01:33:06,279
I mean, once she beats Nicky moves on. I think

1834
01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:07,800
there's a lot of stuff Page can do in the

1835
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:10,239
women's division. There's a lot she could have a Becky few.

1836
01:33:10,359 --> 01:33:11,079
There's a lot of.

1837
01:33:11,119 --> 01:33:12,520
Speaker 3: Cool stuff she could be doing.

1838
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:15,359
Speaker 7: Man that would feel fresh and feel good, and the

1839
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:17,000
fans would want to get behind Page.

1840
01:33:17,319 --> 01:33:19,439
Speaker 3: I really think she has a high ceiling.

1841
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:21,560
Speaker 7: I'm glad she's out of this tag team with the

1842
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:23,399
Bellows because I'm just I was ready for it to

1843
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:25,359
be done, and it's if you're going to bring her back,

1844
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:27,399
do something more than that, that's not enough for me.

1845
01:33:29,279 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 8: I'm Chris Maitland, I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling Coast

1846
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:34,960
to Coast, a podcast on independent wrestling.

1847
01:33:35,279 --> 01:33:37,520
Speaker 2: Every week, Christ and I review a different show 'or

1848
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,479
talk about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.

1849
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 8: Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main eventors.

1850
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,520
For anyone else, you can reach us at Torchcoast to

1851
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:49,399
Coast at gmail dot com and me on Blue Sky

1852
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:50,439
at Mind of Maitland.

1853
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 2: You can reach me at Blue Sky at Justin McClelland.

1854
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 8: Find the show on your PW Torch Daily Cast podcast feed,

1855
01:33:57,239 --> 01:34:00,399
search PW Torch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or or wherever

1856
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:01,439
you listen to podcasts.

1857
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:07,520
Speaker 2: Also stream the latest shows on pwtorch dot com. The one,

1858
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:09,680
the one thing that I think has helped JC Jane

1859
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,600
is she's found a style by the pseudo Shawn Michael's c.

1860
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:20,039
Nineteen that the cross She's found that something that works

1861
01:34:20,119 --> 01:34:23,119
for her, and you can tell it's making her character

1862
01:34:23,159 --> 01:34:25,840
a lot more well rounded to have that with her the.

1863
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:28,079
Speaker 4: Love thing I love about Jason, And this is why

1864
01:34:28,079 --> 01:34:30,399
I don't like having her in these six man tags,

1865
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:33,720
because she doesn't get these moments. But I described it

1866
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,880
on a post show once where she has such great

1867
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:42,079
facial expressions after every kickout, after every cutoff, where she

1868
01:34:42,279 --> 01:34:45,600
has this range where this one she's selling, she's proud,

1869
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,800
and she knows how to find the camera without it

1870
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:51,600
looking like she's searching for the camera. This is when

1871
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:55,479
she's frustrated, This is when she's desperate, this is but

1872
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:59,439
she has a different facial expression for every part of

1873
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:02,199
the match and it shows and you can read it.

1874
01:35:02,359 --> 01:35:05,920
Like with the sound off, they show Jac's face, the

1875
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,600
camera finds it and I go, oh, she's very proud

1876
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,119
of herself right now. And the next one, I'm like, oh,

1877
01:35:11,319 --> 01:35:14,079
she looks like she's desperate. The other one, I'm like, h,

1878
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:19,239
she looks like she's she's searching in her brain for

1879
01:35:19,359 --> 01:35:21,279
the next way to cheat. But she has all of

1880
01:35:21,359 --> 01:35:24,439
these facial expressions which help tell the story of the match.

1881
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:26,439
But when you do a six man tag like you

1882
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:29,880
did tonight. She doesn't get any of those moments because

1883
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:32,680
it's just on to the next spot, which in this

1884
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,079
match was probably like misstimed or botched, and so even

1885
01:35:36,119 --> 01:35:38,880
if she had the facial expression, you wouldn't remember it. Anyways,

1886
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:41,119
I think this does a disservice to her.

1887
01:35:42,079 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 3: What do you think about Page, Derek? Do you feel

1888
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:44,279
me on Page?

1889
01:35:44,359 --> 01:35:44,399
Speaker 6: Like?

1890
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,199
Speaker 7: What if she gets in the singles division full time

1891
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:48,800
and does some good stuff there? I think she's got

1892
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:49,680
a lot left in her.

1893
01:35:50,039 --> 01:35:54,359
Speaker 4: My very analytical answer, I don't know she's got like

1894
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:56,880
a really she's really interesting in this way where I

1895
01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:00,319
felt the same way about aj Lee, where I don't

1896
01:36:00,359 --> 01:36:02,640
know how good aj ever was because we never got

1897
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:05,039
a chance to see it. I don't know how good

1898
01:36:05,119 --> 01:36:08,279
Page is because like when did we get to see it? Greg,

1899
01:36:08,319 --> 01:36:10,079
do you remember, like I remember like she had some

1900
01:36:10,119 --> 01:36:12,800
pretty good matches on NXT, but when she got called

1901
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:14,880
up to the main roster, I don't remember like one

1902
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:19,039
time she was given the time, the opportunity, or the

1903
01:36:19,239 --> 01:36:22,960
stage to show if she was good or not. So

1904
01:36:23,119 --> 01:36:25,119
I really don't know what she has to offer. And

1905
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:28,319
then in AW I saw a few matches, and they

1906
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:30,560
they were below what I thought she was.

1907
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean.

1908
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:35,199
Speaker 4: Below where I thought she was.

1909
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, early with AJ and Charlotte. I loved what she

1910
01:36:38,119 --> 01:36:39,800
did there. I thought it was so good.

1911
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,279
Speaker 7: I mean I loved those matches. I mean they were

1912
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:46,560
for Diva's division. They were really good, top notch to me.

1913
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:47,439
Speaker 3: I mean, I know you know.

1914
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:49,920
Speaker 7: Wrestling as far as you you've worked matches and stuff,

1915
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:52,479
So I want to take your opinion very strongly.

1916
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:53,640
Speaker 3: But I love a Page.

1917
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:55,760
Speaker 7: When she initially was there the first few years, I

1918
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:57,840
love what she did. I thought she was over. I

1919
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,319
thought the fans were behind her, was he l I

1920
01:37:00,319 --> 01:37:02,319
thought she got over really well. I liked what she

1921
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:05,399
did in everything. I mean, unless I'm missing something that

1922
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:07,840
you have that I don't have, but I you know,

1923
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:08,640
I thought it was good.

1924
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:10,079
Speaker 3: That was really well done most of it.

1925
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 4: But to go with that Seohan, I would be a

1926
01:37:13,039 --> 01:37:18,920
lot more interested to see Page Russell Lyra Valkyria or

1927
01:37:19,159 --> 01:37:24,840
Russell soul Ruka. Those are the people I want to

1928
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:27,279
see her against. I don't want to see her against

1929
01:37:27,319 --> 01:37:31,039
the Bellas because I think, actually and I think that's

1930
01:37:31,079 --> 01:37:33,279
what we're going to get. They're going to bring her down.

1931
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:36,880
She's not going to have the opportunity to be brought up.

1932
01:37:37,319 --> 01:37:39,479
But I want to see j C. Javers page give

1933
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:44,760
me like a strap. I love it. He eight to

1934
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:46,720
ten minute television match. And then I'll be able to

1935
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:48,199
see it, and I think all fans will be able.

1936
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:53,600
We'll see when lowered by by having to share time

1937
01:37:54,159 --> 01:38:07,319
in six man t lose Greg Greg. Maybe Greg was

1938
01:38:07,359 --> 01:38:11,920
so upset than usually. I'm very nice and forgiving, so

1939
01:38:12,319 --> 01:38:13,840
I feel bad I went hard on the Bellots.

1940
01:38:16,279 --> 01:38:16,680
Speaker 2: I'm here.

1941
01:38:17,239 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 4: I'm really worried. I'm worried that we're going to see

1942
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:24,960
a page against the Bella Twins, and I'm just gonna

1943
01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:26,279
be really grouchy about it.

1944
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:29,439
Speaker 2: I mean, the one way to look at it, Derek,

1945
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,239
is the Bellat Twins kind of off doing their own

1946
01:38:32,279 --> 01:38:37,600
thing with these other legends versus going against younger wrestler.

1947
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,960
You know, we hear a lot of wrestler or a

1948
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:42,479
lot of wrestling fans talk about these veterans need to

1949
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:45,079
be wrestling the younger wrestled. I don't know from a

1950
01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:48,039
match quality standpoint, what some of these younger wrestlers are

1951
01:38:48,079 --> 01:38:50,239
going to get out of wrestling the Bellas so.

1952
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:53,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Stephane Mcare didn't get anything.

1953
01:38:53,359 --> 01:38:55,319
Speaker 2: From so that's that's my point. So I guess if

1954
01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:59,000
you're going to have the Bella's active, i'd almost rather

1955
01:38:59,079 --> 01:39:02,319
see them. So the pages in the aj Lee's versus

1956
01:39:02,399 --> 01:39:05,239
have them kind of you know, you talked about it

1957
01:39:05,279 --> 01:39:07,239
that bring down the interuring work of some of the others,

1958
01:39:07,279 --> 01:39:10,079
like the Stephanie for Cares or the Lyra of Valkyrias

1959
01:39:10,079 --> 01:39:14,319
for example, So that's kind of my my take on it,

1960
01:39:14,399 --> 01:39:17,479
and page I don't know, you know, she it was

1961
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,439
always the look that got her over right away in NXT,

1962
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:23,199
and she was she was good for NXT, But I

1963
01:39:23,279 --> 01:39:25,079
think the point was, you know, when she got to

1964
01:39:25,119 --> 01:39:28,159
the main roster, she didn't have those long matches because

1965
01:39:28,159 --> 01:39:30,399
it was still in that Diva's era where they were

1966
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:34,479
getting the length of matches. And you know, she's been

1967
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:37,039
out of wrestling for a while. She wrestled sporadically in

1968
01:39:37,119 --> 01:39:40,439
ae W, she's come back and wrestled tag team matches

1969
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:45,319
mostly in WWE. So my expectations for her in any

1970
01:39:45,399 --> 01:39:48,239
kind of lengthy singles match would honestly be very low,

1971
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,239
just because I don't have a body of work to

1972
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,439
tell me what she can do at this stage, especially

1973
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:58,760
with you know the layoffs, the injuries that the neck

1974
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,840
injury that retired her medically for a long time in WWE.

1975
01:40:03,279 --> 01:40:06,119
How does that affect her wrestling a ten to fifteen

1976
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:09,840
minutes singles match against top competition. And you know, she

1977
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:12,760
may have been good during that divis era, but think

1978
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:16,760
of how much the quality has risen in the women's

1979
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:20,039
division since then. And to expect her to wrestle at

1980
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:24,279
that level after age and injury have probably sapped some

1981
01:40:24,359 --> 01:40:27,439
of her innerring, I just I can't expect that from

1982
01:40:27,479 --> 01:40:28,800
her today in twenty twenty six.

1983
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 4: I think that's fair. And also the question you have

1984
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:34,840
to ask when someone does hit that age limit is

1985
01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:37,960
it's like Randy Orton, they find these other ways where

1986
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:40,439
they can do less, but it all means more, right,

1987
01:40:41,359 --> 01:40:44,439
But that comes when you build equity with the fan base.

1988
01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:48,000
Because I've always said this about Randy Orton. He wrestles

1989
01:40:48,279 --> 01:40:52,000
great television matches because he gets three minutes off every

1990
01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:55,359
four minutes, right, and those three minutes, like this is

1991
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:58,560
like a magic of a Randy Orton match. During a

1992
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,840
commercial break, he probably is doing nothing, but when they

1993
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:04,600
come back, the crowd is always hotter because he knows

1994
01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:07,399
how to keep that those fans engaged for three minutes

1995
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:10,359
when he doesn't do anything that's like magic, Like no

1996
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:13,479
one gets to do that. That's like a master. But

1997
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:18,159
he's mastered television wrestling. When I bring Randy Orton up

1998
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:21,039
for this fact, a lot of veterans, like maybe Paige

1999
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:24,439
mastered some of these other qualities that don't work in

2000
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,479
aw because they never slow the pace down. So if

2001
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:29,560
you put her in a ten minute singles match against

2002
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:33,640
a woman at her skill level, she has these little

2003
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:36,279
tricks of the trade that you can work like a

2004
01:41:36,399 --> 01:41:39,880
great television match that actually, when you recall it, move

2005
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:43,159
or move is not very good, but it invites the

2006
01:41:43,239 --> 01:41:45,119
crowd to participate in a way that it feels a

2007
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:48,520
lot better than it actually is. That's like those are

2008
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:51,720
like the true artists of pro wrestling, which you have

2009
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:53,920
to have like ten or fifteen or twenty years under

2010
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,640
your belt to get to that level. Maybe she's got that,

2011
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:58,840
but we've never been able to see it before.

2012
01:41:59,199 --> 01:42:03,319
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, I'm just more optimistic from what I've seen,

2013
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:05,920
and I know the injuries are an issue, but I

2014
01:42:06,079 --> 01:42:08,840
think if she's wrestled a little bit now I think

2015
01:42:09,079 --> 01:42:12,239
she's I think she can do a good singles match.

2016
01:42:12,279 --> 01:42:14,319
Speaker 3: If you give her the ability to do it, I

2017
01:42:14,439 --> 01:42:17,720
think she can do it again. Get past Nicki Bella,

2018
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:18,840
Oh my god, they're gonna wrestle.

2019
01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:19,239
Speaker 4: I know it.

2020
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 8: It sucks.

2021
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,600
Speaker 7: I'm not excited about it. But once they get past that,

2022
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:24,760
I think Page can have some really good matches with

2023
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:26,600
some good opponents, and I'm excited to see what she

2024
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:29,720
can do going to gun through all this. Really like

2025
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:32,560
the match a lot, really enjoyed it, loved all this

2026
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:35,359
coming out, saw a little bit of his emotion, how

2027
01:42:35,399 --> 01:42:38,319
emotional he was before this match. Really was excited to

2028
01:42:38,399 --> 01:42:41,359
be able to do this match, and I thought he

2029
01:42:41,439 --> 01:42:44,640
did a really nice job. I thought everything looked pretty

2030
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:46,199
even though he was a little worn down at the end.

2031
01:42:46,199 --> 01:42:48,000
But again, he hadn't wrestled, like you said, in three years,

2032
01:42:48,039 --> 01:42:51,399
so I thought he did really well. I just I mean,

2033
01:42:51,439 --> 01:42:53,640
it's not that I like think you guys are wrong

2034
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:56,039
in what you're saying him going back to GM. I

2035
01:42:56,199 --> 01:42:58,479
just don't love GMS, and I just think all this

2036
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:00,960
has the talent to go back and rest. And I

2037
01:43:01,039 --> 01:43:03,000
think if the fans are into him, and I was

2038
01:43:03,079 --> 01:43:06,079
into him, I was behind him. I think you could

2039
01:43:06,119 --> 01:43:08,560
put him in and he could be Yeah, he doesn't

2040
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:10,199
have to be a main eventor but they need some

2041
01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:13,640
fresh faces on TV, and I think all this can

2042
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:16,560
be that guy where he could still have good matches

2043
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:18,880
against a lot of good opponents, where yeah, he doesn't

2044
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,720
win a title, but I just the GM is kind

2045
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:24,720
of yeah, it's okay. I don't dislike the GMS, but like,

2046
01:43:25,319 --> 01:43:27,399
if Pierce can be the GM, I'm both shows.

2047
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:29,159
Speaker 3: That's just fine with me. I don't need all this

2048
01:43:29,279 --> 01:43:29,960
to be a GM.

2049
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:32,239
Speaker 7: And I think if he's got talent in the ring

2050
01:43:32,319 --> 01:43:34,560
and he showed he could do that, why not show

2051
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:36,560
what he can do on ww television for a little while.

2052
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,079
He doesn't have to wrestle every week, but man, give

2053
01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:40,600
me some good fews with him, and if he gets

2054
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:42,399
in the main event every now and then, that's good.

2055
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 3: It's fine.

2056
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 7: I mean, it's another fresh face w B hasn't had

2057
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:48,319
in a while, and I'm okay with it. I would

2058
01:43:48,399 --> 01:43:50,000
like to see him wrestle for a bit, but if

2059
01:43:50,039 --> 01:43:53,119
he doesn't, again, if he doesn't and he ends up

2060
01:43:53,159 --> 01:43:55,239
the GM again, like he's done a nice job as

2061
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:57,159
the GM. Like I can live with it, but I

2062
01:43:57,159 --> 01:43:58,239
would love to see him wrestle.

2063
01:43:58,279 --> 01:43:59,720
Speaker 3: He saw what he could do. I think it'd be fun.

2064
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:03,199
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm making the same argument that I

2065
01:44:03,319 --> 01:44:06,680
made in the Rhodes Punk Match. It's not that I

2066
01:44:07,159 --> 01:44:12,840
love gms, like we got rid of gms, the characters.

2067
01:44:13,239 --> 01:44:18,000
I'd be fine with it, but WWE has decided that

2068
01:44:18,159 --> 01:44:22,840
gms are necessary for their shows. And Nick Alice does

2069
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:26,119
a fantastic job, and you know you are make the

2070
01:44:26,199 --> 01:44:30,119
argument fresh faces. Nicholas is thirty nine. Is he a

2071
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:32,479
fresh face in w w E? Yeah, but he's not

2072
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:35,520
going to help lower He's not going to help solve

2073
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:40,039
the problem of WWE's top stars being over aged and

2074
01:44:40,399 --> 01:44:42,359
very needing to promote for within.

2075
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:45,600
Speaker 4: Are you trying to say that everybody over thirty nine

2076
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:52,279
we were just good for nothing? Because I'm you're forty five, Greg,

2077
01:44:52,359 --> 01:44:52,880
How old are you?

2078
01:44:53,319 --> 01:44:59,039
Speaker 2: I'm forty one, So so I'm speaking of myself here too.

2079
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:02,479
Speaker 4: Greg. I'm just saying this, Greg, I'm thinking hard. Now.

2080
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:06,199
We both wear glasses, we're both white, we both have

2081
01:45:06,359 --> 01:45:07,399
tank tops.

2082
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:09,760
Speaker 2: We both have a stunning physiques.

2083
01:45:10,199 --> 01:45:14,199
Speaker 4: We're we might be we might be twins.

2084
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 2: I see the resemblance definitely. But anyway, yes, nick allis uh.

2085
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:28,439
You know the same thing with the interference, right. I

2086
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,760
don't argue for interference, but it's tolerable when it happens

2087
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:35,920
once in a while. I don't argue for general manager positions,

2088
01:45:36,039 --> 01:45:40,119
but it's tolerable if you have ones that are as

2089
01:45:40,159 --> 01:45:42,560
good as Nickolas and Adam Pierce are in their roles,

2090
01:45:43,079 --> 01:45:45,680
and that are largely there as traffic cops. You know,

2091
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:50,680
they're not influencing the outcomes of matches. They're not overly

2092
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:53,439
babyface or overly heel. I think both have done a

2093
01:45:53,520 --> 01:45:58,000
nice job of towing that line pretty well. And I

2094
01:45:58,119 --> 01:46:01,000
think you know, in the canon of WWE, as I

2095
01:46:01,079 --> 01:46:03,800
argued earlier, the GM positions are very important. They're a

2096
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:07,119
very important role on television, and you could have Adam

2097
01:46:07,119 --> 01:46:10,239
pierced too. It does appear that w W wants one

2098
01:46:10,319 --> 01:46:12,199
for each show to have kind of the butting of

2099
01:46:12,199 --> 01:46:15,159
the heads every once in a while, right the competition aspect,

2100
01:46:15,239 --> 01:46:20,920
we do theoretically at least still have two brands separate brands.

2101
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:27,520
So again, I'd prefer all this as the GM as

2102
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:30,279
opposed to just kind of throwing him out there. I

2103
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:32,680
like Derek's idea of having him wrestle maybe once or

2104
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:36,039
twice a year and kind of limiting to that to

2105
01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:39,880
that for the special occasions, because you know, when Lesler leaves,

2106
01:46:40,039 --> 01:46:44,000
you have one fewer special occasion wrestler. And if you

2107
01:46:44,079 --> 01:46:46,520
could use Nick Alldis in that role based on fan

2108
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,800
reaction here, based on the plauts he's getting for his performance,

2109
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:53,640
I think he could slip into that special occasion role

2110
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:56,560
that Lesner has held for quite a while.

2111
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Greg, I'll go one step further when it

2112
01:47:00,399 --> 01:47:04,279
comes to GMS. I can't believe I'm saying this, given

2113
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:08,119
how sick of GMS I was for how long is

2114
01:47:08,239 --> 01:47:11,119
in my wrestling fandom. I like the role now and

2115
01:47:11,239 --> 01:47:15,079
I think like it makes the show feel more logical

2116
01:47:15,119 --> 01:47:18,680
to me, like they are the conduit that bridges the

2117
01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:21,920
gap of making every match that happens on the show

2118
01:47:22,119 --> 01:47:26,159
makes sense, and it's like a very important role that

2119
01:47:26,399 --> 01:47:29,800
keeps the show moving. Like Triple HS described, pro wrestling

2120
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:33,159
is not a sport. It's a television show about a sport.

2121
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:36,359
And whether you support that comment or you oppose it,

2122
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:39,000
when you think hard and you step back, that is

2123
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:43,760
exactly what it is. And the GM character is a

2124
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:47,319
side character, but an important character on that television show,

2125
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:49,960
and Nick all the Sadana Pierce both do a great

2126
01:47:50,079 --> 01:47:53,680
job with that, sayd Sean. If Nick does and they

2127
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,880
feel that it's appropriate for him to have a more

2128
01:47:57,359 --> 01:48:01,920
traditional in ring wrestling role, I'm not opposed to it.

2129
01:48:02,079 --> 01:48:05,159
I don't think it's a terrible idea. I'm interested in it.

2130
01:48:05,359 --> 01:48:08,079
When he wrestled, i'd be interested. I just fear that

2131
01:48:08,159 --> 01:48:10,560
it would get older faster than we It would get

2132
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:14,479
older a lot faster than we hoped it would like.

2133
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:16,920
Its shelf life is not going to be as long

2134
01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:19,960
as I want it to be, or that I hope

2135
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:20,399
it would be.

2136
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:24,640
Speaker 1: iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native

2137
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:28,359
podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial

2138
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:32,239
free versions of our free shows by searching pw Torch

2139
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:34,960
in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal grade logo that

2140
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:37,399
says PW Torch VIP on it. Click on that there's

2141
01:48:37,399 --> 01:48:40,439
some free samples of VIP shows and you can unlock

2142
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:44,119
the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial

2143
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2144
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in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PW Torch VIP

2145
01:48:50,119 --> 01:48:52,279
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2146
01:48:52,319 --> 01:48:54,840
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2147
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:58,439
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2148
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:01,560
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2149
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:03,880
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2150
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VIP exclusives. Just search PW Torch in your Apple podcast app.

2153
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I and that's why I said initially, like

2154
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:19,279
you know, if they go back to GM, it's it's

2155
01:49:19,359 --> 01:49:21,640
fine because he hasn't done a really nice job as

2156
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:24,239
a GM, so I'm not like against it, and knowing

2157
01:49:24,319 --> 01:49:26,239
he lost this match, which he should have, I mean,

2158
01:49:26,239 --> 01:49:27,960
I'm not I don't think he should have be gun

2159
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:28,479
through anyway.

2160
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 3: So it's like, Okay, you know he GUNTHERER made a

2161
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:34,800
man up, he did, he had a good he did

2162
01:49:34,840 --> 01:49:37,039
a great job, you know, go back to his role

2163
01:49:37,159 --> 01:49:38,359
as initially, you know, and then.

2164
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:41,039
Speaker 7: Like like my friend said in the chat, you know,

2165
01:49:41,119 --> 01:49:43,560
if he's the GM and somebody else comes up to

2166
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:45,800
him and does that and challenges his manhood. He'll have

2167
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:47,680
a match with him too or something, you know, if

2168
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:50,239
it's if it needs being and so I'm okay with it.

2169
01:49:50,279 --> 01:49:51,119
Speaker 3: I mean, I can live with that.

2170
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:51,760
Speaker 6: Uh.

2171
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:55,079
Speaker 7: The second match was was was fine. Like you said,

2172
01:49:55,119 --> 01:49:56,720
guys said, I mean, I'm kind of with you. I mean,

2173
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,039
I ellen Knight's always going to be cheered right now.

2174
01:49:59,039 --> 01:50:00,760
I think ellen Knight needs to in a bigger spot

2175
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:03,760
than he's in. It's just the problem of like you said,

2176
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:05,399
who we're gonna reot for who we do And I

2177
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:07,279
don't know like jay Us, so I don't want to

2178
01:50:07,359 --> 01:50:07,840
cheat right now.

2179
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:08,199
Speaker 4: I know that.

2180
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:11,600
Speaker 3: I just his matches just annoy the crap out of me.

2181
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:12,600
I just don't like him.

2182
01:50:13,199 --> 01:50:16,039
Speaker 7: Jacobi too is a star right now too, but I

2183
01:50:16,039 --> 01:50:16,880
don't know where he's going.

2184
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:18,079
Speaker 3: I don't know who he is. I don't know what

2185
01:50:18,199 --> 01:50:18,840
he is about.

2186
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:21,760
Speaker 7: I just bloodline stuff, just you know. Is I mean,

2187
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:23,680
we'll see how it plays out, but I'm not happy

2188
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:26,199
about that. So but I'm I'm I'm willing to let

2189
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:28,119
it play out. And then with the first match with

2190
01:50:28,279 --> 01:50:31,680
EO and Live, I really enjoyed it a lot. Leo

2191
01:50:33,319 --> 01:50:35,520
just makes me smile. She's so fun in the ring.

2192
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:37,600
She knows what she's doing, she knows who she is.

2193
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:40,039
I thought the vignettes to lead to the match were good,

2194
01:50:40,159 --> 01:50:43,319
really well done. And I think Lives better than a

2195
01:50:43,359 --> 01:50:44,520
lot of people give her credit for.

2196
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:46,920
Speaker 3: I like Live a lot. I don't know what the

2197
01:50:47,039 --> 01:50:49,439
hate is on her. I don't get it. Really.

2198
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,720
Speaker 7: The character, yes, is great, but the end ring has

2199
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:55,960
been really good the last year. I it's not her fault.

2200
01:50:56,039 --> 01:50:58,720
She hasn't gotten title matches, you know, had her title defenses.

2201
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:01,199
That's the booking, just not giving her title defenses. I

2202
01:51:01,279 --> 01:51:04,119
mean she could easily defend the title multiple times a week,

2203
01:51:04,279 --> 01:51:07,359
multiple times a month. I mean it's she's good in

2204
01:51:07,439 --> 01:51:09,960
the ring. I mean she's shown that multiple times over

2205
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:13,600
the last year. I don't know what the I just

2206
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:15,960
hear that a lot like Lives not good in the ring,

2207
01:51:16,039 --> 01:51:16,760
and I just don't.

2208
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:20,199
Speaker 3: I don't agree. I've seen it. She's good in the ring.

2209
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:21,199
Is she Io?

2210
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:21,840
Speaker 4: No?

2211
01:51:22,119 --> 01:51:24,000
Speaker 7: But she doesn't have to be IO. She just has

2212
01:51:24,079 --> 01:51:27,439
to be very good in the ring. She's a great heel. Yes,

2213
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,880
I know you were talking about her, you know, maybe

2214
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:34,960
turning face against Roxanne. I would turn I'd have Roxanne

2215
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,479
Ttern face. She's a way more natural face. Live is

2216
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:40,159
so good as a heel right now. I wouldn't change

2217
01:51:40,159 --> 01:51:40,840
it for a while.

2218
01:51:42,079 --> 01:51:45,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, Sean, I want to agree with you. I just

2219
01:51:45,199 --> 01:51:48,479
don't think she's got enough chances to prove it. And

2220
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:50,479
I think that's where a lot of people. I think

2221
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:52,279
a lot of people it's kind of like the memory

2222
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,479
where people remember her two or three years ago when

2223
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,439
she wasn't that good. She was struggling to find her footing,

2224
01:51:58,920 --> 01:52:01,239
she was having a lot of you know, miss time spots,

2225
01:52:01,319 --> 01:52:04,239
little snaffoos here and there, and then they set their

2226
01:52:04,279 --> 01:52:06,880
opinion that lives not very good. And even though that

2227
01:52:07,039 --> 01:52:09,920
she's approved in front of their eyes, she hasn't had

2228
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:15,199
those enough chances on pl major events to have that

2229
01:52:15,319 --> 01:52:19,039
fifteen minute match where the nay seers have to say, oh, yeah,

2230
01:52:19,079 --> 01:52:22,039
I was wrong, because that's how she's won me over.

2231
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:24,079
She had a few matches at the beginning of the

2232
01:52:24,159 --> 01:52:27,000
year that I thought were really strong. Right before her injury,

2233
01:52:27,119 --> 01:52:29,119
she had some matches that I thought were really strong.

2234
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:31,920
And even I'll say this, she had the best match

2235
01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:34,399
against soul Ruka that soul Ruca's had since she's on

2236
01:52:34,439 --> 01:52:36,680
the main roster and it was just to know nothing

2237
01:52:37,039 --> 01:52:39,680
night on Raw. But Sol didn't blow any spots during

2238
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:42,680
that match because Liver Live was right there for every move,

2239
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,439
because it takes two to hit a spot and it

2240
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:49,479
takes two to screw up the spot. And when it

2241
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:52,159
came to Live Live didn't let her screw up any spot.

2242
01:52:52,279 --> 01:52:55,159
She was in position for everything. So a lot is

2243
01:52:55,279 --> 01:52:58,920
to say about Live's gotten better, but she needs more

2244
01:52:59,039 --> 01:53:01,840
chances to prove that she has, and I think that

2245
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:03,880
will win over more of the people who say that

2246
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:04,640
she's not good.

2247
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sean, anything else for us tonight?

2248
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,159
Speaker 3: I think I did as much as I could.

2249
01:53:12,279 --> 01:53:13,560
Speaker 4: Guys. It's always fun.

2250
01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:15,680
Speaker 7: It's always a pleasure. I should be on tomorrow night

2251
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:17,399
too as well, unless something weird happens.

2252
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:19,199
Speaker 3: But uh no, it was fun. It was a good night.

2253
01:53:19,279 --> 01:53:20,359
It was a fun night for me.

2254
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:23,520
Speaker 7: I really enjoyed it at night too. Has a lot

2255
01:53:23,640 --> 01:53:26,079
to live up to you. I'm worried about it, but

2256
01:53:26,159 --> 01:53:27,079
we will see where it goes.

2257
01:53:27,159 --> 01:53:27,359
Speaker 4: Guys.

2258
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:29,319
Speaker 7: Derek always fun, Greg always get to talk to my man.

2259
01:53:29,319 --> 01:53:30,680
Hopefully I get to talk to you guys tomorrow.

2260
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:34,760
Speaker 4: So Sean, nextly getting the memo. Brother, It's it's August.

2261
01:53:35,560 --> 01:53:37,840
Tank tops got you.

2262
01:53:38,359 --> 01:53:40,399
Speaker 2: I left you on hold for so long waiting for

2263
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:41,560
you to get your tank top out.

2264
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:47,039
Speaker 4: And it's one hundred and two degrees today in Utah.

2265
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:49,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was pretty hot here too, But I don't

2266
01:53:50,039 --> 01:53:52,039
I've never been a tank top person because again I

2267
01:53:52,079 --> 01:53:54,079
don't have a physique, so I don't want to show well.

2268
01:53:54,079 --> 01:53:59,439
Speaker 4: I mean, hey, man, it's like air conditioning all the time.

2269
01:54:01,319 --> 01:54:01,680
Speaker 2: That's right.

2270
01:54:02,119 --> 01:54:03,479
Speaker 3: You guys are a pleasure man. I always want to

2271
01:54:03,479 --> 01:54:03,800
taught you.

2272
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 2: Great, Sean.

2273
01:54:05,079 --> 01:54:06,239
Speaker 4: Thanks, Thanks Sean.

2274
01:54:07,239 --> 01:54:09,039
Speaker 2: All Right, one more thing to get to Derek. Before

2275
01:54:09,119 --> 01:54:11,520
we close up shop for Tonight's an email from John

2276
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:14,800
from New York. He says, Hi, Greg and Derek, John

2277
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:17,359
from New York old emailer on Wrestling Night in America

2278
01:54:17,399 --> 01:54:19,840
when you hosted weekly Greg, I hope you're both doing well.

2279
01:54:20,399 --> 01:54:23,520
Generally watchable night one of SummerSlam and no major complaints

2280
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:25,680
from me. But while I really liked to Live EO

2281
01:54:25,840 --> 01:54:28,479
match and thought it was what Eo Vicaire should have

2282
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:31,359
been aiming for at WrestleMania, I was quite disappointed by

2283
01:54:31,399 --> 01:54:33,600
the finish. Live is very good in the ring and

2284
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:36,399
improved a lot in her character work and She's conventionally

2285
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:39,159
very attractive, so I could see why WW likes her

2286
01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:41,479
as part of an ensemble, but why is she winning

2287
01:54:41,920 --> 01:54:44,640
in world title matches over someone the commentators and fans

2288
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:47,359
call the best wrestler in the world. Live is like

2289
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:49,319
a six or seven out of ten in terms of

2290
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:52,199
overall level as a performer, and she's just simply not

2291
01:54:52,359 --> 01:54:54,600
on the level of an Eo Sky or Ria Ripley

2292
01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:57,479
or Charlotte Flair. Is as simple as that. It took

2293
01:54:57,520 --> 01:54:59,680
her ten years of chance after a chance to improve

2294
01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:02,199
that others didn't get for a variety of reasons, to

2295
01:55:02,239 --> 01:55:04,000
get to the level of many current mean event stars

2296
01:55:04,039 --> 01:55:06,680
have been at for years. She sells well, she smooth

2297
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:08,119
in the ring, and I like her as a talent

2298
01:55:08,159 --> 01:55:10,079
and I'm honestly a fan of hers, But I think

2299
01:55:10,239 --> 01:55:13,439
WWE pushes her above her skill level largely because she's

2300
01:55:13,479 --> 01:55:16,680
conventionally attractive. I don't like thinking it, as it feels

2301
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:19,000
like disservice to live, and I honestly don't mean it

2302
01:55:19,079 --> 01:55:21,960
that way, as she obviously works hard. Your thoughts on

2303
01:55:22,119 --> 01:55:25,000
my points on Live and EO. Look, I mean if

2304
01:55:25,560 --> 01:55:30,079
this was if this was a real sport, then EO

2305
01:55:30,159 --> 01:55:33,159
Sky would probably win Overlive Moregan every time. But the

2306
01:55:33,560 --> 01:55:37,520
nature of a worked product like WWE and professional wrestling

2307
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:39,760
is you could have someone who is not as good

2308
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:43,720
as their opponent still win. Otherwise they would be just

2309
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:47,239
kind of foregone conclusions and you'd be you know, they'd

2310
01:55:47,279 --> 01:55:49,880
have a match and be like scoring, you'd hold up

2311
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:52,239
ten or you'd hold up a seven. Then the person

2312
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,359
these points would win who performed better in that match.

2313
01:55:56,600 --> 01:56:00,800
So you know, obviously John is I think, not buying

2314
01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:03,479
what Sean is selling in terms of Live being improved

2315
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,800
to the level that that he believes she has. So

2316
01:56:06,520 --> 01:56:10,720
when you have someone who at least John views and

2317
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:13,600
I think we both view as not as good as EO.

2318
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:17,239
Sky right overall, does not to say Live Morgan is bad.

2319
01:56:17,279 --> 01:56:19,079
I'm not hating on Live Morgan, but I mean that's

2320
01:56:19,159 --> 01:56:24,319
just my opinion. Obviously others can can disagree. But when

2321
01:56:24,399 --> 01:56:28,119
you see that difference that I mean levels of difference

2322
01:56:28,159 --> 01:56:32,119
here between EO. Sky and Live Morgan, do you see

2323
01:56:32,199 --> 01:56:36,520
any problem with a Live Morgan level competitor beating an

2324
01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:38,199
Eosky level competitor.

2325
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:42,399
Speaker 4: No, for these two reasons, and I've discussed them, but

2326
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:47,039
I'll frame it different. First of all, in Cannon the

2327
01:56:47,119 --> 01:56:49,880
way that she won tonight with there was interference, but

2328
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:52,079
in the end, she's the one who hit her moves

2329
01:56:52,119 --> 01:56:56,319
in pandeo. That builds up credibility, and that's what the

2330
01:56:56,399 --> 01:57:00,880
fans who accept everything as a real sport, but also

2331
01:57:01,039 --> 01:57:03,920
the fans like us who are analyzing things. She was

2332
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:07,439
given enough time and enough platform, and she performed at

2333
01:57:07,479 --> 01:57:10,399
a level tonight where she won over more of the

2334
01:57:10,479 --> 01:57:13,000
people who are uncertain about her in ring ability by

2335
01:57:13,079 --> 01:57:15,760
having a really good match. The only thing I'll push

2336
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:19,920
back on against it was his name, John greg yes is.

2337
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:23,920
I think sometimes we confuse as wrestling fans the importance

2338
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:27,319
of hitting really flashy moves. Liv is never going to

2339
01:57:27,359 --> 01:57:29,479
be the person who hits the moon Salt. She's not

2340
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:31,520
going to do the Si Moon Salt to the outside

2341
01:57:31,560 --> 01:57:34,520
of the ring. She's not going to do the springboard dropkick.

2342
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:38,199
That doesn't mean that she's not a competent worker. Okay,

2343
01:57:39,239 --> 01:57:43,760
the people who hold matches together. So I finally watched

2344
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:46,680
WWE Unril. I haven't watched season one or season two,

2345
01:57:46,720 --> 01:57:49,920
but I met my parents' house while they're in Scotland

2346
01:57:50,079 --> 01:57:52,199
for two weeks and I have nothing to do until

2347
01:57:52,239 --> 01:57:55,159
school starts on the tent And so I watched season

2348
01:57:55,279 --> 01:57:58,720
three and Triple H says that liv Morgan is a

2349
01:57:59,560 --> 01:58:02,399
Ring ja general is the phrase that he used, and

2350
01:58:02,520 --> 01:58:04,479
I think a lot of fans would give that that

2351
01:58:05,279 --> 01:58:09,640
look that you just gave Greg. I'll say that if

2352
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:13,039
somebody who's in the office, who works with the producers,

2353
01:58:13,359 --> 01:58:17,039
works with the other talent, putshes matches together, produces the matches,

2354
01:58:17,439 --> 01:58:19,479
and they have those people that they can rely on

2355
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:22,279
and say, you're the Ring General when something goes bad,

2356
01:58:22,319 --> 01:58:24,960
We're relying on you to fix it. Triple H knows

2357
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:27,600
if she's a Ring general. We have no idea who

2358
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:31,119
the Ring generals are. We have no idea. We have

2359
01:58:31,239 --> 01:58:33,760
no idea who are the glue in matches. We pretend

2360
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:36,600
like we know, but you would have to ask the

2361
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:39,600
people who are on the mics planning the matches, putting

2362
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:41,920
the stuff together, and they don't have to go back

2363
01:58:41,960 --> 01:58:44,359
and forth all the time and remembering people are reminding

2364
01:58:44,399 --> 01:58:47,079
people of their spots. So if Triple H says that

2365
01:58:47,319 --> 01:58:52,199
live more than the Ring General, he knows, we don't, ye,

2366
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:55,680
which means she's a lot more valuable than we think

2367
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:56,079
she is.

2368
01:58:58,880 --> 01:59:02,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and that's that's a good barometer I think

2369
01:59:02,279 --> 01:59:06,800
of and a good explanation for why she's pushed the

2370
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:08,239
way she is. I think there's some people who are

2371
01:59:08,239 --> 01:59:12,760
a little bit conveyed why she's pushed. Yes, and trust

2372
01:59:12,840 --> 01:59:17,359
in professional wrestling is a big deal. So there, there

2373
01:59:17,399 --> 01:59:20,560
you go, A good place to end it. Derek, appreciate

2374
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,479
you hopping on for the summer Slim Night one post show.

2375
01:59:24,319 --> 01:59:26,479
I don't know who's going to be hosting tomorrow. It's

2376
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:30,039
not going to be me, so I'm sure there will

2377
01:59:30,079 --> 01:59:33,359
be one after Night to tomorrow. But as has been said,

2378
01:59:33,399 --> 01:59:37,119
that two has a lot to live up to. Derek,

2379
01:59:37,159 --> 01:59:39,159
I know you're on these post shows every once in

2380
01:59:39,199 --> 01:59:42,159
a while with Wade during the week, and he wrote

2381
01:59:42,239 --> 01:59:46,960
up the tonight's show for p tw B Torch dot com.

2382
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:48,520
Anything else for the Torch you want to plug, well,

2383
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:48,920
I've got you.

2384
01:59:49,640 --> 01:59:52,359
Speaker 4: Yeah. I write a weekly article called Ben Now and Forever.

2385
01:59:53,079 --> 01:59:56,680
I enjoy writing it, so if you read it, it

2386
01:59:56,720 --> 01:59:59,319
would make me happy because that makes it more validating

2387
01:59:59,399 --> 02:00:01,279
to me. You up to tell me it's good. You

2388
02:00:01,319 --> 02:00:04,079
could tell me it sucks. I got a thick skin,

2389
02:00:04,199 --> 02:00:07,439
not just from years of sun exposure. But because I'm

2390
02:00:07,479 --> 02:00:10,840
old too, I'm like leather, but I enjoy writing it,

2391
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:12,600
so if you read it, that would be great too.

2392
02:00:13,199 --> 02:00:16,319
But I love the Torch community. I think everyone is

2393
02:00:17,239 --> 02:00:20,439
very respectful and even if we disagree, it leads to

2394
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:25,439
fruitful and enjoyable dialogue, not conflict, which is something that

2395
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:29,960
all America should take, should take lesson and advice for.

2396
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:32,560
Speaker 2: I want to stand up in salute right now. That

2397
02:00:33,239 --> 02:00:38,560
was very well done. Yeah right, appreciate it and everybody

2398
02:00:38,760 --> 02:00:42,439
look forward to talking again tomorrow night for Summer Slam

2399
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:45,880
Night too. I am for Rustling Torch columns Greg Parks

2400
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:48,239
and he is p tw B torch dot com contributor

2401
02:00:48,239 --> 02:00:51,439
to Derek Covered and until next time. Signing off here

2402
02:00:51,640 --> 02:00:53,840
for the Summer Slam Night one post show.

2403
02:01:03,079 --> 02:01:06,279
Speaker 1: Your time is valuable. Go vip and listen to our

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experience that I know many of you regret once you

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get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at

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a time and settle in for high quality PW Torch

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branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when

2430
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:35,920
he co hosts with me on the Wadekeller Post Shows. Well,

2431
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now you can listen to him every week on The

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Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell

2433
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you more.

2434
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Speaker 9: Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with

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02:02:44,119 --> 02:02:46,319
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nickys

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02:02:46,359 --> 02:02:49,119
comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE

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for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered,

2438
02:02:52,319 --> 02:02:54,600
the Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest

2439
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club in town.

2440
02:02:55,359 --> 02:02:57,239
Speaker 1: Nick Barbatty wants to be part of your pro wrestling

2441
02:02:57,279 --> 02:02:59,760
life every week, so why not let him go vi

2442
02:03:00,319 --> 02:03:03,600
pw torch dot com slash go vip for full details

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on signing up. We're compatible with Patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

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You can also stream directly from our ad free VIP website,

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see if you like the service, and then sync it

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daily cast lineup. Again all commercial free and nice streamline

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listening experience. But with third tier membership you can also

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unlock all the VIP podcasts including Everything with Rich and Wade,

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every week, the Wadkeller News bulletins, post pay per view roundtables,

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and in array of other VIP exclusive podcasts with different

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PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free

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access to these shows and a ton of other VIP

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to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous

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and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from

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dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's

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no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that

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that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching

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post pay per view roundtables are covered with some of

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and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.

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PW torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a

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