Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number three hundred and fifty one, published on
Speaker 1: October two, twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
Speaker 2: insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Speaker 2: Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
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Speaker 2: like this that are no longer available in any podcast
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Speaker 3: My time on the first tea and talking to people
Speaker 3: on trying to promote this just on an individual basis,
Speaker 3: guess where the most complaints have come from?
Speaker 1: Women? Absolutely, Oh, you're kidding, as is this going to
Speaker 1: be as like outrageous ladies?
Speaker 3: I know, that's what I mean, that's the outrageous answer.
Speaker 3: I mean. I've had them go up one side of
Speaker 3: being down the other dress me down about wanting to
Speaker 3: move the teas up so more women could enjoy the game.
Speaker 3: And yet what's the big movement by the PGA of America.
Speaker 3: The great untapped resource for more golfers is women. Okay,
Speaker 3: let's have them play from the equivalent of seventy four
Speaker 3: hundred yards. Guess what will happen. They'll be slow, They
Speaker 3: won't have any fun and they'll quit. Literally annually for
Speaker 3: thirty years, I've heard that the great influx of golfers
Speaker 3: we're going to be women. It has never happened. One starts,
Speaker 3: one quits. I mean, women aren't stupid, for heaven's sakes.
Speaker 3: Maybe if we made the game a little more amenable
Speaker 3: to them on course, maybe they'd stick around for a while.
Speaker 3: What happens to clubs is the good women players don't
Speaker 3: want to give up their advantage.
Speaker 1: Former CEO of Adams Golf, Barney Adams, on d and forward.
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers
Speaker 2: and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked
Speaker 2: for your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. Barney.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: And thank you. We're doing Skype. You and I are
Speaker 1: looking at each other, and you've just entered a whole
Speaker 1: new world, haven't you.
Speaker 3: Yes, I have. I'm doing. I'm very uncomfortable. This is
Speaker 3: like leaving the country or something.
Speaker 1: There for me. You are in a different part of
Speaker 1: the country. You're actually in a different part of the
Speaker 1: planet right now.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I'm in that. I did a story one
Speaker 3: time on the internet. I went viral and I had
Speaker 3: to look it up to see what it meant. So
Speaker 3: that's that's where I am. What was the story that
Speaker 3: was the original ta at forward story?
Speaker 1: Oh? Really? And it went viral, and you like, what
Speaker 1: does that mean?
Speaker 3: People kept asking you say, hey, your story went viral,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was a disease. I didn't know
Speaker 3: what it was. There was something wrong with it.
Speaker 1: Well, welcome to Skype, thank you, and so now and
Speaker 1: and to make you even more uncomfortable, we're looking at
Speaker 1: one another.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm looking down. I'm not looking at you, So
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean I'm looking at my shoes. Well, I
Speaker 3: know it's a case with socks.
Speaker 1: But do you know what, as you're looking at your socks,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the top of your head because you're
Speaker 1: you're tilting your head right into the camera.
Speaker 3: I have a Texas A and M sweatshirt on for
Speaker 3: my grandson.
Speaker 1: Oh is that where your grandson goes?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Well I have a us C shirt.
Speaker 3: On right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, that's the end of that conversation. Yes,
Speaker 1: but let's talk about ta it forward among other things.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's about one hundred things I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you about, but I think that we should
Speaker 1: start with ta at Forward.
Speaker 3: Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1: Let's start from scratch here. What is t at Forward?
Speaker 3: It's very misunderstood.
Speaker 1: Well, here's your soapbox, my friend.
Speaker 3: Yep. The name implies that it's about moving people up
Speaker 3: one or even two sets of t's, and that's not true.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, and that's exactly what I thought it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know everybody does. And that was my kind
Speaker 3: of my message to the PGA when we started all this.
Speaker 3: This is a lot more complicated than just moving up
Speaker 3: a set of teas. Because speaking as a as a golfer,
Speaker 3: obviously there are some whole the whole thing. I got
Speaker 3: to back up a step because I put it in perspective. Sure,
Speaker 3: I had played around a golf I go out to
Speaker 3: the California desert in the winter time, beautiful place, beautiful weather,
Speaker 3: beautiful courses, et cetera, et cetera, and I had played
Speaker 3: golf that particular day, and I was sitting home in
Speaker 3: the evening basically whining to myself about what a lousy
Speaker 3: time I had, And then I thought to myself, you know,
Speaker 3: this is really dumb. You just played in a beautiful
Speaker 3: golf course with nice guys, good weather, et cetera, and
Speaker 3: you're sitting around complaining. You know there's something wrong with you. Well,
Speaker 3: then I got looking into it deeper. You know why
Speaker 3: was I complaining? Well, I didn't really have a good time. Well,
Speaker 3: why didn't I have a good time? Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And basically, when I finished all of the analysis, and
Speaker 3: when on the internet looked up I do know how
Speaker 3: to do that. I went on the internet, looked up
Speaker 3: data and so on and so worth. We had played
Speaker 3: that day from sixty seven hundred yards. What I figured
Speaker 3: out the difference between relative distances between tour players and
Speaker 3: amateur players. That was equivalent to a tour player playing
Speaker 3: from roughly eighty four eighty five hundred yards. Wow, exactly, wow,
Speaker 3: And no tour player would do that.
Speaker 1: That's dumb, No, I mean, the courses are being made
Speaker 1: longer and longer and longer these days, but is that
Speaker 1: to anybody's advantage?
Speaker 3: Well, like I say, why why do why do I
Speaker 3: my skills need to play from the equivalent of eighty
Speaker 3: four hundred yards?
Speaker 1: And what do you what your index about? So we
Speaker 1: have a sense of your.
Speaker 3: Well, it's skills, it's a say, it's rapidly escalating along
Speaker 3: with my age. It's it's about ten now, I think,
Speaker 3: and it's it's but all the all the indicators are
Speaker 3: going up, so it's it's anyway. So as I got
Speaker 3: into this DOMI that for whatever sets of reasons, amateur
Speaker 3: golfers have gotten to a position where they're playing courses
Speaker 3: that are much longer than the tour would play. Now,
Speaker 3: golf lost one point one million people last year. That's
Speaker 3: a one between one to one and one four depending
Speaker 3: on which data source you access. And the reasons given
Speaker 3: were no fund too slow, not cost, no fun, too slow,
Speaker 3: and I'll get the cost. Well, if you're playing from
Speaker 3: eighty four hundred yards, guess what, it's going to be
Speaker 3: slow and it's not going to be any fun, so
Speaker 3: let's play. Then I got when I looked at the
Speaker 3: tour data, the average iron hit into a power four
Speaker 3: on tour is an eight iron. Now you ask your
Speaker 3: friends how many of them average eight irons into the
Speaker 3: power four and the courses they play, and if they're honest,
Speaker 3: the answer is none, maybe one or two? Okay, maybe,
Speaker 3: I mean you might hit one or two eight irons,
Speaker 3: but you don't average eight irons. You're hitting hybrids or
Speaker 3: hitting fairway woods, et cetera. So the whole idea behind
Speaker 3: this was to promote courses being set up so that
Speaker 3: the amateur players would hit second shots from the same
Speaker 3: relative area to their games that the tour players do. Now,
Speaker 3: to make it more specific, what I advocated was that
Speaker 3: the PGA of America, in partnership with the USGA, come
Speaker 3: up with a series of small markers. Figure something that's
Speaker 3: no more than three inches in diameter, and you put
Speaker 3: that in the fairway to one hundred and forty three yards,
Speaker 3: which is a relative distance for the amateur compared to
Speaker 3: the tour player. And you tell golfers, look, if you
Speaker 3: want to play the same game the tour players do,
Speaker 3: you tee it up to a point that get you
Speaker 3: somewherees in the vicinity of that marker. It's that simple.
Speaker 3: Some of you are going to be behind it, somebody
Speaker 3: you're going to be in front of it. But guess what,
Speaker 3: on tour, some guys are longer, some guys are shorter.
Speaker 3: I don't care. Just play from that vicinity. For women,
Speaker 3: it's one hundred and twelve. That's what tea at forward
Speaker 3: is all about. It's not about moving to the front
Speaker 3: tees because on some holes, if you move to the
Speaker 3: front ties, you might be in a ninety yards because
Speaker 3: it's already a shorter hole. Don Versely, on par fives,
Speaker 3: for most of the par fives parameters, i'd actually move
Speaker 3: the tees back because if you have a par five,
Speaker 3: a big par five, say it's five seventy, all right,
Speaker 3: the average ameter, let's figure their t shot at two twenty.
Speaker 3: It's somewhere. It's between two ten and two thirty, depending
Speaker 3: upon the speed of the fairways, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Now I understand, I'm an old club fitter that everybody
Speaker 3: that plays golf hits at two fifty or sixty. I
Speaker 3: understand that at the very length that's right. Unfortunately, that's
Speaker 3: a fantasy. But it's a fantasy all golfers live with, okay.
Speaker 3: But the truth of the matter is it's roughly two
Speaker 3: ten to two thirty. So we picked two twenty as
Speaker 3: an average just to pick a number, and then on
Speaker 3: their second shot, because it's going to roll along the
Speaker 3: ground if they hit it well, it's another let's say
Speaker 3: two ten two hundred yards. So let's say we got
Speaker 3: two twenty plus two hundred, that's four to twenty plus
Speaker 3: four plus one hundred and forty is roughly five sixty.
Speaker 3: So you can see where I easily get to five
Speaker 3: sixty even five seventy for a par five. I really
Speaker 3: dislike par fives that are roughly between excuse me, let's
Speaker 3: say four eighty and five twenty, because for ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent of the ambiturs, they're three shot holes you could hit.
Speaker 3: You could hit virtually anything off the tee, could hit
Speaker 3: an iron or a fairway wood, another ironer fairway wood
Speaker 3: and still have fairly short iron into the green. So actually,
Speaker 3: on my golf courses, well, the par fours would has
Speaker 3: a rule, gets shorter, but they would be strategically shorter
Speaker 3: because someone have dog legs and so on. The par
Speaker 3: fives on the whole would get longer. The par threes
Speaker 3: are kind of a toss up because it depends upon
Speaker 3: how the green is laid out. If it's a Rodance
Speaker 3: style green with a lot of bounce area in the
Speaker 3: front and no water around or anything, could be longer.
Speaker 3: If it's forest kerry could be shorter. But my point
Speaker 3: is that the essence of the movement as I originally
Speaker 3: construed it is not about moving to the frontiees. That's
Speaker 3: an oversimplification.
Speaker 1: So if I can interpret what you're saying and get
Speaker 1: this straight, you're saying that the goal is to pretty
Speaker 1: much make it so everyone's kind of try getting to
Speaker 1: the point where they can hit their eight iron in
Speaker 1: as their approach shot.
Speaker 3: Roughly. I mean, let's listen, one picking a number. For
Speaker 3: some people, that's a six iron. I understand that. Okay,
Speaker 3: you're looking.
Speaker 1: At a number, not an iron, so that's correct.
Speaker 3: I'm just looking. I just want to What I'm trying
Speaker 3: to do is say, look, if you went up to play,
Speaker 3: if you will, let's all right. You can go up
Speaker 3: and you get a chance to scrimmage with Golden State.
Speaker 3: They're not going to move the baskets to twelve feet. No,
Speaker 3: they're gonna let you shoot to ten foot basket, right,
Speaker 3: That's all I want to.
Speaker 1: Do, right right, But if you play with the Mavericks,
Speaker 1: will they put it up to twelve feet?
Speaker 3: Thank that I've been worked one out with him regularly.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm making a comeback. But we I mean,
Speaker 3: think of the publicity value, I mean I'd be the
Speaker 3: only guy in the NBA with an artificial need. Okay,
Speaker 3: I mean that's worth a lot of money to that man.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a marketing them right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, I'm sure the Cuban would love to discuss
Speaker 1: that with you.
Speaker 3: Right yeah. I mean it's a big deal. It's it's
Speaker 3: a money maker, it's it's it's guaranteed. I just want
Speaker 3: a piece of it, that's all.
Speaker 1: Actually, Actually, we have a minor league baseball team here
Speaker 1: in Marin County. This was their first year and in
Speaker 1: the last week of the season. Do you remember Bill's
Speaker 1: spaceman league?
Speaker 3: Oh? Sure I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well Bill, he played for Boston in the expos.
Speaker 1: He holds the record as the most starts for a
Speaker 1: left hander in Red Sox history. Right pitched in the seventies.
Speaker 1: He grew up in this county. He went to the same
Speaker 1: high school my kids went to. He pitched a game.
Speaker 1: They paid him to pitch a game at sixty five
Speaker 1: years old.
Speaker 3: Good for him.
Speaker 1: He pitched a complete game, went one for three with
Speaker 1: a sacrifice and an RBI at the plate, and got
Speaker 1: a nine to five victory.
Speaker 3: I think I remember thinking about him that he always
Speaker 3: kept himself in great physical condition.
Speaker 1: He was said, well, I'd say he's got a nice
Speaker 1: beer belly popping through the bottom of that jersey of his.
Speaker 1: But he does play. He still plays hardball.
Speaker 3: He lives right with that arm, you know, because you'd
Speaker 3: hurt yourself that.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious. He was throwing junk up there. It
Speaker 1: was so much fun to watch these these youngsters just
Speaker 1: totally baffled by what he was throwing at him.
Speaker 3: But Clemens is going to start for Houston. You know,
Speaker 3: Amy Houston can't throw anyway fifty.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, that's not the kid. He's a
Speaker 1: kid sixty five. This guy was pitching and it was
Speaker 1: what nuts. And it was a bunch of old hippies
Speaker 1: sitting in the stands. It was Hilo.
Speaker 3: They're both throwing from ninety feet, aren't they?
Speaker 1: Yes, they are.
Speaker 3: They didn't move the mound back to one hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty feet.
Speaker 1: That's correct.
Speaker 3: That's my whole argument about golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this visual in my head that we
Speaker 1: were going to put a hotel sign called the eight
Speaker 1: Iron Inn.
Speaker 3: Because you're in that business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred and forty three yard approach. Okay, So
Speaker 1: how do we do that? Where did then where do
Speaker 1: we tee up from?
Speaker 3: Well, we're I don't care where your tea up from.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, you guys are smart people. Figure
Speaker 3: it out. I'm just going to show you where you.
Speaker 1: Tea wherever you want your your initial tea shot. You
Speaker 1: can go from wherever you want, as long as you're
Speaker 1: at approximately one hundred and forty five yards to your.
Speaker 3: You'll figure it out. You'll figure out what set of
Speaker 3: tea's worked for it.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like especially on golf courses where they're
Speaker 1: mostly people and if you have an artificial need, do
Speaker 1: you walk a golf course or you take a cart?
Speaker 3: Both the bens where I play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So if people are in golf carts, they're
Speaker 1: never going to talk to each other. Then if they're
Speaker 1: all teeing up from different spots the tea.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna tea. But that's my point. You see,
Speaker 3: you got them tee it up from different spots because
Speaker 3: you're trying to get them all to one hundred and
Speaker 3: forty three. That's one of the misconceptions. We tee them
Speaker 3: up from the same spot and guess what some of
Speaker 3: the guys are going to be longer and they're gonna
Speaker 3: hit it to one hundred and twenty and some are
Speaker 3: gonna be shorter. They're gonna hit it t one hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty.
Speaker 1: Then why is that different than having multiple take exactly?
Speaker 3: Why if you're playing against me and we're playing for something, okay, okay,
Speaker 3: I'll play for that, all right. We're gonna play for something, okay,
Speaker 3: And I'm let's say, for the sake of argument, I'm
Speaker 3: longer than you are, okay. And I got a six
Speaker 3: iron into the green and you got a hybrid. Okay,
Speaker 3: who's got the edge? You do? You bet your life.
Speaker 3: Now we play from the t's that I want us
Speaker 3: to play from. And I'm still longer than you are.
Speaker 3: You've got a seven iron into the green, and I've
Speaker 3: got a nine iron into the green. Who's got the edge?
Speaker 1: You still do? But it's right.
Speaker 3: But now, all of a sudden, and now you stick
Speaker 3: seven iron up there fifteen feet, which you probably couldn't
Speaker 3: do with a hybrid. And now I got to hit
Speaker 3: my shot and it's for a couple of bucks, and
Speaker 3: you're looking at me and say, here, good luck, Barnyard.
Speaker 1: You know what you made me very nervous. I thought
Speaker 1: you were going to tell me where to stick that
Speaker 1: seven iron for a second.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see my point. Yeah, And that's that's one
Speaker 3: of the misconceptions. It's we're going to have people tee
Speaker 3: and off all over the place because everybody has to
Speaker 3: get to exactly one forty three. Ain't gonna happen, right right,
Speaker 3: ain't happen.
Speaker 1: So why is that different than having the blue teas,
Speaker 1: the white tea's, the black tea's, and the red teas.
Speaker 3: I don't care what color they are. You can make
Speaker 3: them polka dot.
Speaker 1: Why is that different? Why does that make that a
Speaker 1: different program?
Speaker 3: Because we now understand where we have to drive the
Speaker 3: golf ball to to play the same equivalent game as
Speaker 3: the tour players. That's the big that's the that's the
Speaker 3: mitigating factor.
Speaker 1: That's different playing the same game is.
Speaker 3: Okay, equivalent rank you are going to be as good
Speaker 3: as they are, and you're not going to hit your
Speaker 3: eight iron one sixty like.
Speaker 1: They do, right, oh god.
Speaker 3: But we're gonna have you hit your eight iron and
Speaker 3: play from an equivalent distance because we're gonna make the
Speaker 3: game faster and we're gonna make it more fun. And
Speaker 3: what happens. When you start doing that, things enter the
Speaker 3: equation that have been absent for a while, like cars
Speaker 3: and an occasional birdie. You play faster. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think one of the great travesties in golf was the
Speaker 3: definition of the four hour round, because if four hours
Speaker 3: is the average, then I guess four fifteen or four
Speaker 3: to twenty is okay. And I can crawl most golf
Speaker 3: courses with my bad knee in four twenty that's to
Speaker 3: be that's ludicrous. But anyway, you'll speed up play and you'll,
Speaker 3: as I said before, you'll have more fun and and
Speaker 3: you should, and you will stem the tide of people
Speaker 3: dropping out because it's an enjoyable experience and also enhance
Speaker 3: the app opportunity for people to start playing game. You know,
Speaker 3: let's let's say we're going to get eight new golfers
Speaker 3: and we're gonna sum some lessons and you know, outfit
Speaker 3: them with clubs and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: And now we take it with a golf course and
Speaker 3: tee it up from eight thousand yards. You know, it's
Speaker 3: like driving people to a bad movie. You can go
Speaker 3: in a limousine. You can give them popcorn, you can
Speaker 3: do all kinds of things to make it a better deal.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, it's still a
Speaker 3: bad movie. Right, let's fix let's fix the movie. Right.
Speaker 1: But the experience may have been a little better because
Speaker 1: it cost them nothing maybe if you're being maybe, but it.
Speaker 3: Took a long time.
Speaker 1: See here's what I don't understand about this, Barnie. And
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm missing something. And usually when I play
Speaker 1: with people and we're trying to decide what tea boxes
Speaker 1: we're playing from, they'll say, oh, well, let's see, this
Speaker 1: is sixty six hundred yards, this is seven thousand yards,
Speaker 1: this is sixty two hundred yards. Let's play from sixty six.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, why does that matter. Let's look at
Speaker 1: the rating and the slope. I always to me that
Speaker 1: is the the great equalizer. When I say, oh, but
Speaker 1: you know, if you play from the front ties, it's
Speaker 1: a one twenty two. The middle ties is a you know,
Speaker 1: a slope of a one twenty eight, and then you
Speaker 1: one thirty five. Well, I'm not good when I I
Speaker 1: don't play as well from a slope of one thirty five,
Speaker 1: and I score really well on a one twenty. So
Speaker 1: I try to play one twenty eight to when you
Speaker 1: know one around and there. Why you keep talking about yardage,
Speaker 1: but you're not talking about rating and slope.
Speaker 3: Who cares? Don't get me started rating and slope. You know,
Speaker 3: I belong to a golf course that's seventy one hundred
Speaker 3: yards from the back and sixty one hundred from the front.
Speaker 3: I have the same handicap from four different sets of tees.
Speaker 3: That's impossible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's impossible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it happens all the time. I get letters
Speaker 3: all the time from people on that subject. I don't
Speaker 3: I don't even go there. So you think the raising
Speaker 3: I'm a very simple person. You had to teach me
Speaker 3: how to make this phone call. You know, I have
Speaker 3: very limited capabilities. I just want a little marker out
Speaker 3: there that says, hit the ball around this area, and
Speaker 3: you'd be playing from the same relative distance as the tour.
Speaker 3: No more, no less.
Speaker 1: It's all based on yardage.
Speaker 3: It's all based on yardage. That's correct.
Speaker 1: And you say rating slope is something that is making
Speaker 1: it too complicated because.
Speaker 4: No nobody canel You know, I sit on the tee
Speaker 4: the other day and conduct a little experiment because all
Speaker 4: the guys that hit it two fifty, and I had
Speaker 4: we had a flag out there, and we had a
Speaker 4: gun and we lasered it and it was too eighteen.
Speaker 3: So I said, well, obviously, if it's too eighteen and
Speaker 3: you hit it two fifty, you should carry that, right
Speaker 3: A nobody carried it, of course. B very few guys
Speaker 3: got there in less than the first top. And see
Speaker 3: they all left still thinking they hit it two fifty.
Speaker 1: So we were back to the yardage.
Speaker 3: Yep, I'm trying to I'm trying to boil this thing
Speaker 3: down to the narrowest possible, simplest possible explanation, and quite frankly,
Speaker 3: I have a I sort of have another plan, except
Speaker 3: it's a little lot on my purview, but if I
Speaker 3: could find one, if I could find a sponsor, I
Speaker 3: would initiate a series of tournaments kind of like the
Speaker 3: ultimostmobile scramble type of thing, except that it would be
Speaker 3: a different format. But to get people used to playing
Speaker 3: from these distances, I think that would be a great
Speaker 3: way to kick this thing off.
Speaker 1: And so you're you're taking some credit for this idea
Speaker 1: of the t and forward idea, the concept of the
Speaker 1: yardage and getting people to play it or I wrote.
Speaker 3: I wrote the original story, and then I got contacted
Speaker 3: by the PGA and the USGA and they said, this
Speaker 3: is a good idea. And they said, uh.
Speaker 1: And it never crossed their mind before.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure it did. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: I got I got the letters from some of the
Speaker 3: guys I knew in the media that said, hey, you
Speaker 3: know we've written about this before too. You know, there's
Speaker 3: nothing new in golf. I think I just took a
Speaker 3: little different approach by equating it to tour players. And
Speaker 3: I caught on, that's.
Speaker 1: All I see. I see that that was your hook.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's you know, it's it's I'm not
Speaker 3: interested in taking credit for anything. I'm an old person.
Speaker 3: I like peace and quiet. I'd like to play from
Speaker 3: teas where I can enjoy. I play golf with Lee Trevino.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 3: Last I heard he was. Last I heard he was
Speaker 3: a pretty good player.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is he a lot of fun to play with?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And he hits it two fifty five off the tea,
Speaker 3: not two fifty three, not two fifty seven, two fifty five. Wow,
Speaker 3: that's the world he lives in. Or you know what
Speaker 3: teas he plays? He plays the up tease. Why because
Speaker 3: he said, you know, you know exactly what he told me.
Speaker 3: He said, I want to be able to hit the
Speaker 3: same shots into the green I always did. And there
Speaker 3: it is, there it is. I mean, this is Trevino
Speaker 3: talking about and I promise you I've never seen an
Speaker 3: amateur at any level that can hit the ball close
Speaker 3: to it as well as he hits it today. And
Speaker 3: I have been around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've seen a couple of golfers play.
Speaker 3: I have been around.
Speaker 1: I see a huge stumbling block in all this golfer's egos.
Speaker 3: No fooling. I'm glad you caught onto that.
Speaker 1: Because guys play from the blues today.
Speaker 3: Why I belong to a men's club. Give me a break.
Speaker 3: I live with this stuff. But I'll tell you there's
Speaker 3: another there's another reason too. It's a little more subtle,
Speaker 3: but it's equally powerful. And one of the great things
Speaker 3: about golf is that it's played to a set of
Speaker 3: standards as a general rule. And I mean they can
Speaker 3: always find exceptions, but it's played to us a very
Speaker 3: high set of standards.
Speaker 1: I might add.
Speaker 3: People play by the rules. For example, in the equipment business,
Speaker 3: if you come up with a golf club that's miraculous
Speaker 3: but doesn't fit the rules of golf. People won't buy it.
Speaker 3: They want to play by the rules, which to me
Speaker 3: is adds a veracity to They also be willing to
Speaker 3: play from the same distance the tour players do. But
Speaker 3: the bottom line is that when you have this sense
Speaker 3: of integrity about the game and all of a sudden
Speaker 3: you're playing from distances that are twenty thirty forty yards
Speaker 3: closer than you used to, you feel guilty, You feel
Speaker 3: like you're wrong, you feel like you're cheating. That's part
Speaker 3: of the educational process. It's not true, but that's the feeling.
Speaker 3: So that to me is as strong a feeling as ego.
Speaker 3: And I'll give you a little one that you would
Speaker 3: never figure in my time on the first t and
Speaker 3: talking to people on trying to promote this just on
Speaker 3: an individual basis, Guess where the most complaints have come from.
Speaker 1: Women? Absolutely, Oh you're kidding, is going to be like outrageously.
Speaker 3: I know, that's what I mean, that's the outrageous answer.
Speaker 3: But but I mean I've had them just go up
Speaker 3: one side of me and down the other, dress me
Speaker 3: down about wanting to move the teas up so more
Speaker 3: women could enjoy the game. And yet what's the big
Speaker 3: movement by the PGA of America. The great untapped resource
Speaker 3: for more golfers is women. Okay, let's have them play
Speaker 3: from the equivalent of seventy four hundred yards. Guess what
Speaker 3: will happen. They'll be slow, they won't have any fun,
Speaker 3: and they'll quit. I've been in the golf business almost
Speaker 3: thirty years. Literally annually for thirty years, I've heard that
Speaker 3: the great influx of golfers we're going to be women.
Speaker 3: It has never happened. One starts, one quits. Maybe if
Speaker 3: we made the game, I mean, women aren't stupid, for
Speaker 3: heaven's sakes, you know, maybe if we made the game
Speaker 3: a little more amenable to them on course, maybe they'd
Speaker 3: stick around for a while.
Speaker 1: And you think, what happened one of those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what happens to clubs is the good women players
Speaker 3: don't want to give up their advantage. Oh right, that's simple.
Speaker 1: And how much? And I've always felt this way about
Speaker 1: like the Golf channel, is that they cater if that's
Speaker 1: the right word to the single digit uh. You know players,
Speaker 1: the better players who aren't willing to give up the
Speaker 1: ones that you're talking about that. Aren't willing to give
Speaker 1: up something and you know there's such a small minority
Speaker 1: of golfers.
Speaker 3: Sure, but but you got one thing about golf. Uh,
Speaker 3: it's a top down influence game.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I mean you go out in the range and watch
Speaker 3: to see what the eighteen handicapper is doing so he
Speaker 3: can get better.
Speaker 1: No, I watched TV, gotcha.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so it's it's understand I mean I
Speaker 3: understand that I do, however, fault the Golf Channel. It's
Speaker 3: one of the advantages of being old and retired, you know,
Speaker 3: I can speak my mind.
Speaker 1: And being on a podcast that nobody's listening to.
Speaker 3: Exactly right. They ought to be all they ought to
Speaker 3: be all over this, and the reason they ought to
Speaker 3: be all over this is it's good for their business. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a business decision because when people quit the game,
Speaker 3: that's viewers. People take up the game, that's viewers. They
Speaker 3: ought to be the champion of this movement.
Speaker 1: Before when you said too slow, no fun, I was
Speaker 1: always saying too slow, too hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's semantics. Okay, you think, but I argue against
Speaker 3: it cost what I do talks on this thing. Oh well,
Speaker 3: the game's too expensive, I say, I I absolutely disagree
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 1: Oh, because that was my third point, and you weren't.
Speaker 1: You were going to bring that up. It's like it's
Speaker 1: too it's no fun or too too hard, too slow,
Speaker 1: and it costs too much.
Speaker 3: I don't believe. I don't buy that for a second. Sure,
Speaker 3: pebble bee'st costs too much at six hundred or something
Speaker 3: like that. I mean, you know, give me the exceptions value.
Speaker 3: How much would you pay to go to a bad movie?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm still forced to pay ten bucks?
Speaker 3: But help? I mean, really, how much would you pay
Speaker 3: to go to a rotten movie? If you knew up
Speaker 3: front it was going to be bad? You couldn't. You
Speaker 3: can't make it cheap enough.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm saying, wait till it comes out on cable.
Speaker 3: I'll give you ten dollars if you go to this
Speaker 3: rotten movie. So now, never mind. It's value. If the
Speaker 3: game is fun, if people enjoy it, they'll pay a
Speaker 3: fair price.
Speaker 1: And what's going to make them enjoy it more.
Speaker 3: Playing it from the properties or they're not beating their
Speaker 3: brains out all.
Speaker 1: The time making the game easier.
Speaker 3: I don't think whoa whoa, whoa where Where did easier
Speaker 3: come into all that? I must have missed when I
Speaker 3: said that.
Speaker 1: No you didn't. I'm sorry. I'm saying. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's about scoring is going to make it more fun,
Speaker 1: better scoring. So many people.
Speaker 3: Are like, really, really, and you're gonna score better when
Speaker 3: you get up there.
Speaker 1: No, it's still going to be hard to do.
Speaker 3: You bet your life it is. It's a whole Believe me,
Speaker 3: I've had this. I had this conversation. I talked to
Speaker 3: the guys I played with and I talked to them
Speaker 3: to moving up a set of teas, and of course
Speaker 3: they gave me a hard time. Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: We got around to one hole and everybody had wedges
Speaker 3: to the green. Nobody hit the green. And I said
Speaker 3: to him, I said, gosh, this is really getting easy
Speaker 3: from up here. I said, we're going to shoot nothing. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: it isn't easier, it's just more relative. I guess that's
Speaker 3: a double comparative. It's just relative.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's relative. But is that significantly changing it? You
Speaker 1: think that change makes it? The change?
Speaker 3: I know it makes a huge change. Really, I know
Speaker 3: what because I've heard from other people, I've forgotten how
Speaker 3: much fun this game could be.
Speaker 1: So how do you do when you step up to
Speaker 1: the tea on the first tee? You got your foursome
Speaker 1: together and say, all right, we're going to do a
Speaker 1: little bit differently today. We're going to play from. And
Speaker 1: what is it that you're agreeing upon?
Speaker 3: I don't know. You're gonna play fro whever you want.
Speaker 3: You're just gonna know that out there there's a marker
Speaker 3: and that's where you should be hitting your second shot from.
Speaker 3: And you'll learn, I mean, come on, golfers aren't dumb.
Speaker 3: They'll figure it out. There's there's this mental there's this thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the word is that we have
Speaker 3: to present golfers with Christine specific information, like there are
Speaker 3: a bunch of morons, you know, they don't know what
Speaker 3: to do, and okay, now you have to go to
Speaker 3: this tee and then step three steps backwards or do this?
Speaker 3: Come on, Golfers are are as a rule, are very
Speaker 3: intelligent people. If they know that it's that the relative
Speaker 3: the ten foot basket is out there where that little
Speaker 3: marker is on the fair way, and they also know
Speaker 3: that it's okay to be a little short of it
Speaker 3: or to be past it, because after all, it's an in,
Speaker 3: it's an you know, it's not a specific game. They'll
Speaker 3: figure it out. I don't have to. I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: tell them. That's that to me, that's nuts. That's that's
Speaker 3: where you get into trouble. Well, I should play here
Speaker 3: because I hit a two sixty off the tee. Oh okay,
Speaker 3: you don't. But now what do we do? That's why
Speaker 3: I say I get away from all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So then the buy in from the golf courses to
Speaker 1: participate in this is nothing more than putting a marker
Speaker 1: at one hundred and forty x yards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and having it. I think having it. I think
Speaker 3: it should be done under the auspices of the PGA,
Speaker 3: where the regional guy comes out and you know, officially,
Speaker 3: you know, says yeah, we've just signed up you know,
Speaker 3: the fred Green Country Club and so on, and they
Speaker 3: got the markers, et cetera. Then that I would also
Speaker 3: I would also suggest that they started off with an event,
Speaker 3: because there's an education process involved to do just what
Speaker 3: you were asking, to help people find out where they
Speaker 3: should tee off from and so on. Yeah, maybe a
Speaker 3: series of events, but I mean it's more than just
Speaker 3: sticking the markers in the fairway. That's the first step.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the education process is huge, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that you're giving me your time to educate us
Speaker 1: because I'm still a little baffled on some of this stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, well, you're slow, you're slow, but you'll pick
Speaker 3: it up.
Speaker 1: It's my internet connection.
Speaker 3: I understand.
Speaker 1: Party.
Speaker 3: If you listen, what do you think about this? It's
Speaker 3: not eight you'll say, Holy I got it now, I understand.
Speaker 1: Well that's why, hopefully can we continue to do you
Speaker 1: have to run? Or can we continue talking about I'm retired? Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do part
Speaker 1: two of this conversation. We're going to hang up right.
Speaker 1: We're not going to hang up. We're just going to
Speaker 1: let people know that part two of this cover. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go hang up right, and and we're going
Speaker 1: to tell everybody that the Part two of this conversation
Speaker 1: is going to be a Golf Smarter for members only episode.
Speaker 1: So if you want to hear more about what Barney
Speaker 1: has to say about this, and actually, if you don't mind,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna want to dig into your history, a little
Speaker 1: bit about how you got to golf, and he's looking
Speaker 1: up in the sky. He's like, I'm so bored listening
Speaker 1: to this. He wants to eat. I want I want
Speaker 1: to know the history of Adam's golf. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: about not what's going on now, but how you got
Speaker 1: started that coming from cause you mentioned me you came
Speaker 1: from Silicon Valley, So I don't see that you came
Speaker 1: from being a golf pro and had an idea for
Speaker 1: a golf club, but you sure turned into something big
Speaker 1: with that way.
Speaker 3: I looked up with this guy because at this stage,
Speaker 3: because I've gone I've done this many times. I always
Speaker 3: invent something new every time.
Speaker 1: Awesome. All right, So Part two of this conversation with
Speaker 1: Barney Adams formerly of Adams Golf, namesake of Adams Golf
Speaker 1: on golf Smarter for members only, So please go to
Speaker 1: golf smarter dot com and join today so you don't
Speaker 1: miss this or get access to all of our archives
Speaker 1: of well over three hundred episodes of the golf Smarter podcast. Barney,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for greed for part two and
Speaker 1: for coming on explaining to forward.
Speaker 3: You see over my head. By the way, that's a
Speaker 3: signed I want you to know, a signed picture from
Speaker 3: my hero, Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask about that because I've been
Speaker 1: scaring you know, every time you look at your socks.
Speaker 1: I've been looking at that picture.
Speaker 3: Going, well, that's true, and the light reflects off my
Speaker 3: head and it kind of blurs the picture. So I
Speaker 3: wanted to be clear.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't blur it at all. It makes it
Speaker 1: look like he's under a spotlight.
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, Part two coming up.
Speaker 1: Well, once again it's time to talk to Terry Kaylor's
Speaker 1: CEO of Score Golf about your questions on your short game,
Speaker 1: and then Terry answers them, and if he answers your
Speaker 1: question on the Golf Smarter podcast, you are going to
Speaker 1: receive a customized Score forty one sixty one money club
Speaker 1: for yourself to try out at no charge. Right right, Hey, Terry,
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. Thank you got a great question here,
Speaker 1: because I think it's something that's on the mind of
Speaker 1: almost every golfer, you know, as they continue to progress
Speaker 1: in their game and they're starting to figure out that
Speaker 1: they can't do a lot of stuff. This one comes
Speaker 1: from Steve Zintas of Baltimore, Maryland, and he says, when
Speaker 1: I watch golf on TV, I noticed there are several
Speaker 1: times when players hit short, little pitch and chip shots,
Speaker 1: the ball would hit the green stop and then back up.
Speaker 1: Other times the ball would run out. It does when
Speaker 1: most of us hit the ball. So how is it
Speaker 1: possible to get so much spin on the ball from
Speaker 1: such a short distance with less than a full swing
Speaker 1: and obtain that kind of reaction.
Speaker 5: Well, that's a great question. See spin is one of
Speaker 5: the great mysteries of shots. And you know, I want
Speaker 5: to start. There's a bunch of different elements that affect
Speaker 5: your ability to spin the golf ball. Let's work from
Speaker 5: the hole backward. One of the first elements is what
Speaker 5: kind of greens are you hitting into?
Speaker 1: And you know, a bent.
Speaker 5: Grass green that's a little on the soft side is
Speaker 5: gonna it's going to take more spin and react and
Speaker 5: grab the ball better than a bermuda grass green that's
Speaker 5: that's firmer. You have different so different turfs are gonna
Speaker 5: are gonna, you know, allow that spin to take effect.
Speaker 5: The other thing is that a lot of people don't
Speaker 5: look at whether you're pitching that ball into the grain
Speaker 5: or against the grain. It has a lot to do
Speaker 5: with how you can make that ball react when it
Speaker 5: hits the green. A third element is the slope. Are
Speaker 5: you hitting it into a slope? Are you hitting it
Speaker 5: into a down slope? Has a lot more has a
Speaker 5: lot to do with it. You take those variables out,
Speaker 5: let's go to what happens between the green and the club.
Speaker 5: You've got the golf ball, and the pros all play
Speaker 5: a very high spinning golf ball. A lot of amateurs
Speaker 5: are playing these balls that are more distance oriented, maybe
Speaker 5: a little lower price point ball, which is fine, but
Speaker 5: I always recommended to people forget distance, play the highest
Speaker 5: spinning ball that you can find, and it's going to
Speaker 5: give you more control around the green. And all the
Speaker 5: balls are long nowadays, I mean you're not going to
Speaker 5: give up three or four yards, and I mean what
Speaker 5: the ball ends in the fairway makes a much bigger impact. Well,
Speaker 5: then you come back to the moment of truth, the
Speaker 5: club ball impact point. And for a golf ball to
Speaker 5: be imparted with the maximum amount of spin, a few
Speaker 5: things have to happen. One thing is is that the
Speaker 5: ball has to adhere to the face of the club
Speaker 5: and get a good friction on the face of the club,
Speaker 5: so if you're in grass, if you're in you know,
Speaker 5: have a little moisture on it. If the grooves on
Speaker 5: your club aren't clean. These things all will will reduce
Speaker 5: the amount of spin you can put on the ball.
Speaker 5: One of my favorite little tricks for when I want
Speaker 5: to hit a higher spinning shot is I like to
Speaker 5: focus on the on the forward edge of the ball,
Speaker 5: the side of the ball closest to the hole, so
Speaker 5: that I can make sure I make ball first contact,
Speaker 5: that I that that club is on the ball before
Speaker 5: it hits you know, the turf. But there's also and
Speaker 5: one other thing you have to understand about the tour players.
Speaker 5: If you want to learn to spend the ball like them,
Speaker 5: it's really pretty easy. Go invest thousands of dollars in
Speaker 5: lessons and spend at least three or four hours a
Speaker 5: day hitting these little short.
Speaker 3: Cuts, because that's what they do.
Speaker 5: As the commercial said, these guys are good and they practice,
Speaker 5: and when the when the groove thing changed a few
Speaker 5: years ago, these guys all went out and spent hours
Speaker 5: and hours and hours and hours with their witches and
Speaker 5: their arms in their hand to try to understand what
Speaker 5: the new spin was like, and they all learned how
Speaker 5: to spin the ball just as good with the new
Speaker 5: grooves as the old grooves. And it goes back to
Speaker 5: practice practice. There's a technique that I had a tour
Speaker 5: player showing me that these guys are all perfecting now
Speaker 5: that they're they're letting the club release more. And you
Speaker 5: look at a lot of amateurs and they get their
Speaker 5: hands way out ahead of the ball and they kind
Speaker 5: of hood the club down and they're very stiff risted,
Speaker 5: and they turned their their fifty sixty three sandwich into
Speaker 5: a forty eight or forty nine degree club. They've taken
Speaker 5: the bounce out of it. And that's not the way
Speaker 5: to get spind The way you want to maximize the
Speaker 5: spin is to let that club, you know, you get
Speaker 5: the club back, let the club fully release under the ball,
Speaker 5: so the clubhait is almost passing your hands when it
Speaker 5: makes contact on that little short shot, and you have
Speaker 5: a little higher acceleration in the clubhead. But you're also
Speaker 5: adding loft to that shot, and that increases spin. But
Speaker 5: bear in mind, the golf on TV that we watch
Speaker 5: is designed for TV audiences, and TV audiences like to
Speaker 5: see these guys shoot twenty and twenty five under. You know,
Speaker 5: those of us that are seasoned golfers, we tend to
Speaker 5: like to see them grind to shoot even par. But
Speaker 5: that's not what TV is about. So to go back
Speaker 5: to practice feeling a real crisp click when you hit
Speaker 5: the ball, to let you know you're really making ball
Speaker 5: first contact. And don't get all excited about backing the
Speaker 5: golf ball. I mean, you're not going to probably do that.
Speaker 5: You're not playing the same kind of greens. But you
Speaker 5: know you can learn to check the ball a little
Speaker 5: better than you probably do, and that comes from using
Speaker 5: all the loft on the club and letting that club
Speaker 5: release through the ball properly, making sure you have really
Speaker 5: good crisp contact, and you're using a golf ball that
Speaker 5: really takes spin, because some balls don't take spin very well,
Speaker 5: and you don't, you know, you're just going to be
Speaker 5: fighting a losing battle if you're If you're doing that,
Speaker 5: make sure the grooves on your club are clean. As
Speaker 5: I said, I mean grooves that are filled up with dirt,
Speaker 5: they're not gonna spin the ball well. Make sure the
Speaker 5: face of the club is clean.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're repeating that because you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm nuts about taking my little metal brush after almost
Speaker 1: every shot or before every shot and making sure that
Speaker 1: the grooves are you know, debris free. And people look
Speaker 1: at me like why do you carry so much junk?
Speaker 1: It's like, are you kidding? Do you know what happens
Speaker 1: when you get all the mud on. It's like hitting
Speaker 1: a ball that's gotten mud all over it. It's not
Speaker 1: gonna react the way you hope.
Speaker 5: No, it really doesn't. I mean, the equipment, there's a
Speaker 5: lot happening in that millise that the ball is in
Speaker 5: contact with the face and good, good clean grooves, a
Speaker 5: good club that's not worn out. But a lot of
Speaker 5: it's about technique and don't try to chop down on
Speaker 5: the golf ball, and don't worry about this really you know,
Speaker 5: harsh descending blow, you know, any kind of a I
Speaker 5: mean that's kind of hard on your joints and everything
Speaker 5: to be pounding into the ground like that. But just
Speaker 5: look at work on really crisp clean to contact and
Speaker 5: work on kind of pinching that ball into the turf
Speaker 5: and letting that leading edge of the club be where
Speaker 5: you make contact and practice it. Steve, I mean, it
Speaker 5: really is about your short game. If you want to
Speaker 5: be really good, you've got to practice it. And you know,
Speaker 5: you can go out in an hour and hit one
Speaker 5: hundred to one hundred and twenty little short game shots
Speaker 5: because you're not taking these big wind up golf swings,
Speaker 5: and and you'll learn a lot. I mean, just practice
Speaker 5: different things and experiment, have fun, be creative and say,
Speaker 5: wonder what happened if I kind of do the little
Speaker 5: flippy thing with hands, and you know, just learn a
Speaker 5: good technique and learn what you know how to do.
Speaker 5: And then when you're in the golf course and you're
Speaker 5: trying to determine what kind of shot you want to
Speaker 5: into that flag, walk up there and look at the green.
Speaker 5: See if the green is running you know, at you
Speaker 5: or are away from you, and you know feel the green.
Speaker 5: Is it firm and hard up there and you're going
Speaker 5: to have to allow for some rollout? Or you know,
Speaker 5: is that green a little mushy under your feet? You're saying,
Speaker 5: you know, this is pretty cushiony. Some greens they have
Speaker 5: a thick thatch of grass and it almost just like
Speaker 5: a spring. What you're you know, the green that you're
Speaker 5: going to be able to really stick the ball on
Speaker 5: it's going to be a little soft under your feet,
Speaker 5: but it has a very thin layer of grass, so
Speaker 5: that you know the grass isn't providing a sponginess.
Speaker 1: Fabulous. I you know, I just I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how much I love this part of the education that
Speaker 1: we're getting on this podcast because it's so specific and
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily mechanics, right it there's elements of it,
Speaker 1: but there's so much more to it, and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate your knowledge on this, Terry. This is fabulous.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you know, I've spent a lifetime studying
Speaker 5: this game and thirty years in this industry and studying
Speaker 5: equipment and effect. And why do I want to, you know,
Speaker 5: die with all that knowledge? I mean, the only thing
Speaker 5: that to me, the fun thing about knowing something this
Speaker 5: year and it with somebody that'd like to know it.
Speaker 5: You're and so I take great, great pleasure in that.
Speaker 1: You do a great job. Thank you well, Steve. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: You are now eligible to have a customized Score forty
Speaker 1: one sixty one money club made for you, and the
Speaker 1: folks at score Golf will help you do that. Tell
Speaker 1: us about the information they can fill out that will
Speaker 1: help you determine which is the best scoring club for them.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, what we've done is really recreate the
Speaker 5: short end of the set. It's no longer about being
Speaker 5: satisfied with a nine iron and a pitch that that
Speaker 5: match or six iron looked like a six arm, because
Speaker 5: that's not the right way to design those high loft clubs.
Speaker 5: Just no longer about playing quote wedges. The reason we
Speaker 5: don't use the terms we don't make wedges. What we're
Speaker 5: doing is so far evolved from wedges. And I've got
Speaker 5: a collection of old wedges, and your members have heard
Speaker 5: me say this before, but I've got wedges from the
Speaker 5: forties and fifties that you can't tell the difference between
Speaker 5: them and a twenty eleven model or a nineteen ninety
Speaker 5: two model. There's been no evolution in this category. And
Speaker 5: the high loft golf clubs in the old days, Ben
Speaker 5: Ogan and all those guys, they never hit them over
Speaker 5: twenty five or thirty yards. But we use these as
Speaker 5: full swing clubs now, and all that weight real low
Speaker 5: causes blending trajectories and inconsistent distance control. So every golfer
Speaker 5: has got their own right prescription.
Speaker 1: Phenomenal, all right, thanks so much, Terry. We'll talk to
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 5: Soon, okay, thank you Fred