Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number three hundred and fifty one, published on
October two, twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast
app In.
Speaker 3: My time on the first tea and talking to people
on trying to promote this just on an individual basis,
guess where the most complaints have come from?
Speaker 1: Women? Absolutely, Oh, you're kidding, as is this going to
be as like outrageous ladies?
Speaker 3: I know, that's what I mean, that's the outrageous answer.
I mean. I've had them go up one side of
being down the other dress me down about wanting to
move the teas up so more women could enjoy the game.
And yet what's the big movement by the PGA of America.
The great untapped resource for more golfers is women. Okay,
let's have them play from the equivalent of seventy four
hundred yards. Guess what will happen. They'll be slow, They
won't have any fun and they'll quit. Literally annually for
thirty years, I've heard that the great influx of golfers
we're going to be women. It has never happened. One starts,
one quits. I mean, women aren't stupid, for heaven's sakes.
Maybe if we made the game a little more amenable
to them on course, maybe they'd stick around for a while.
What happens to clubs is the good women players don't
want to give up their advantage.
Speaker 1: Former CEO of Adams Golf, Barney Adams, on d and forward.
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers
and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked
for your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. Barney.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: And thank you. We're doing Skype. You and I are
looking at each other, and you've just entered a whole
new world, haven't you.
Speaker 3: Yes, I have. I'm doing. I'm very uncomfortable. This is
like leaving the country or something.
Speaker 1: There for me. You are in a different part of
the country. You're actually in a different part of the
planet right now.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I'm in that. I did a story one
time on the internet. I went viral and I had
to look it up to see what it meant. So
that's that's where I am. What was the story that
was the original ta at forward story?
Speaker 1: Oh? Really? And it went viral, and you like, what
does that mean?
Speaker 3: People kept asking you say, hey, your story went viral,
and I thought it was a disease. I didn't know
what it was. There was something wrong with it.
Speaker 1: Well, welcome to Skype, thank you, and so now and
and to make you even more uncomfortable, we're looking at
one another.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm looking down. I'm not looking at you, So
it doesn't mean I'm looking at my shoes. Well, I
know it's a case with socks.
Speaker 1: But do you know what, as you're looking at your socks,
I'm looking at the top of your head because you're
you're tilting your head right into the camera.
Speaker 3: I have a Texas A and M sweatshirt on for
my grandson.
Speaker 1: Oh is that where your grandson goes?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Well I have a us C shirt.
Speaker 3: On right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, that's the end of that conversation. Yes,
but let's talk about ta it forward among other things.
I mean, there's about one hundred things I wanted to
talk to you about, but I think that we should
start with ta at Forward.
Speaker 3: Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1: Let's start from scratch here. What is t at Forward?
Speaker 3: It's very misunderstood.
Speaker 1: Well, here's your soapbox, my friend.
Speaker 3: Yep. The name implies that it's about moving people up
one or even two sets of t's, and that's not true.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, and that's exactly what I thought it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know everybody does. And that was my kind
of my message to the PGA when we started all this.
This is a lot more complicated than just moving up
a set of teas. Because speaking as a as a golfer,
obviously there are some whole the whole thing. I got
to back up a step because I put it in perspective. Sure,
I had played around a golf I go out to
the California desert in the winter time, beautiful place, beautiful weather,
beautiful courses, et cetera, et cetera, and I had played
golf that particular day, and I was sitting home in
the evening basically whining to myself about what a lousy
time I had, And then I thought to myself, you know,
this is really dumb. You just played in a beautiful
golf course with nice guys, good weather, et cetera, and
you're sitting around complaining. You know there's something wrong with you. Well,
then I got looking into it deeper. You know why
was I complaining? Well, I didn't really have a good time. Well,
why didn't I have a good time? Et cetera, et cetera.
And basically, when I finished all of the analysis, and
when on the internet looked up I do know how
to do that. I went on the internet, looked up
data and so on and so worth. We had played
that day from sixty seven hundred yards. What I figured
out the difference between relative distances between tour players and
amateur players. That was equivalent to a tour player playing
from roughly eighty four eighty five hundred yards. Wow, exactly, wow,
And no tour player would do that.
Speaker 1: That's dumb, No, I mean, the courses are being made
longer and longer and longer these days, but is that
to anybody's advantage?
Speaker 3: Well, like I say, why why do why do I
my skills need to play from the equivalent of eighty
four hundred yards?
Speaker 1: And what do you what your index about? So we
have a sense of your.
Speaker 3: Well, it's skills, it's a say, it's rapidly escalating along
with my age. It's it's about ten now, I think,
and it's it's but all the all the indicators are
going up, so it's it's anyway. So as I got
into this DOMI that for whatever sets of reasons, amateur
golfers have gotten to a position where they're playing courses
that are much longer than the tour would play. Now,
golf lost one point one million people last year. That's
a one between one to one and one four depending
on which data source you access. And the reasons given
were no fund too slow, not cost, no fun, too slow,
and I'll get the cost. Well, if you're playing from
eighty four hundred yards, guess what, it's going to be
slow and it's not going to be any fun, so
let's play. Then I got when I looked at the
tour data, the average iron hit into a power four
on tour is an eight iron. Now you ask your
friends how many of them average eight irons into the
power four and the courses they play, and if they're honest,
the answer is none, maybe one or two? Okay, maybe,
I mean you might hit one or two eight irons,
but you don't average eight irons. You're hitting hybrids or
hitting fairway woods, et cetera. So the whole idea behind
this was to promote courses being set up so that
the amateur players would hit second shots from the same
relative area to their games that the tour players do. Now,
to make it more specific, what I advocated was that
the PGA of America, in partnership with the USGA, come
up with a series of small markers. Figure something that's
no more than three inches in diameter, and you put
that in the fairway to one hundred and forty three yards,
which is a relative distance for the amateur compared to
the tour player. And you tell golfers, look, if you
want to play the same game the tour players do,
you tee it up to a point that get you
somewherees in the vicinity of that marker. It's that simple.
Some of you are going to be behind it, somebody
you're going to be in front of it. But guess what,
on tour, some guys are longer, some guys are shorter.
I don't care. Just play from that vicinity. For women,
it's one hundred and twelve. That's what tea at forward
is all about. It's not about moving to the front
tees because on some holes, if you move to the
front ties, you might be in a ninety yards because
it's already a shorter hole. Don Versely, on par fives,
for most of the par fives parameters, i'd actually move
the tees back because if you have a par five,
a big par five, say it's five seventy, all right,
the average ameter, let's figure their t shot at two twenty.
It's somewhere. It's between two ten and two thirty, depending
upon the speed of the fairways, et cetera, et cetera.
Now I understand, I'm an old club fitter that everybody
that plays golf hits at two fifty or sixty. I
understand that at the very length that's right. Unfortunately, that's
a fantasy. But it's a fantasy all golfers live with, okay.
But the truth of the matter is it's roughly two
ten to two thirty. So we picked two twenty as
an average just to pick a number, and then on
their second shot, because it's going to roll along the
ground if they hit it well, it's another let's say
two ten two hundred yards. So let's say we got
two twenty plus two hundred, that's four to twenty plus
four plus one hundred and forty is roughly five sixty.
So you can see where I easily get to five
sixty even five seventy for a par five. I really
dislike par fives that are roughly between excuse me, let's
say four eighty and five twenty, because for ninety nine
percent of the ambiturs, they're three shot holes you could hit.
You could hit virtually anything off the tee, could hit
an iron or a fairway wood, another ironer fairway wood
and still have fairly short iron into the green. So actually,
on my golf courses, well, the par fours would has
a rule, gets shorter, but they would be strategically shorter
because someone have dog legs and so on. The par
fives on the whole would get longer. The par threes
are kind of a toss up because it depends upon
how the green is laid out. If it's a Rodance
style green with a lot of bounce area in the
front and no water around or anything, could be longer.
If it's forest kerry could be shorter. But my point
is that the essence of the movement as I originally
construed it is not about moving to the frontiees. That's
an oversimplification.
Speaker 1: So if I can interpret what you're saying and get
this straight, you're saying that the goal is to pretty
much make it so everyone's kind of try getting to
the point where they can hit their eight iron in
as their approach shot.
Speaker 3: Roughly. I mean, let's listen, one picking a number. For
some people, that's a six iron. I understand that. Okay,
you're looking.
Speaker 1: At a number, not an iron, so that's correct.
Speaker 3: I'm just looking. I just want to What I'm trying
to do is say, look, if you went up to play,
if you will, let's all right. You can go up
and you get a chance to scrimmage with Golden State.
They're not going to move the baskets to twelve feet. No,
they're gonna let you shoot to ten foot basket, right,
That's all I want to.
Speaker 1: Do, right right, But if you play with the Mavericks,
will they put it up to twelve feet?
Speaker 3: Thank that I've been worked one out with him regularly.
I'm thinking I'm making a comeback. But we I mean,
think of the publicity value, I mean I'd be the
only guy in the NBA with an artificial need. Okay,
I mean that's worth a lot of money to that man.
Oh yeah, that's a marketing them right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, I'm sure the Cuban would love to discuss
that with you.
Speaker 3: Right yeah. I mean it's a big deal. It's it's
a money maker, it's it's it's guaranteed. I just want
a piece of it, that's all.
Speaker 1: Actually, Actually, we have a minor league baseball team here
in Marin County. This was their first year and in
the last week of the season. Do you remember Bill's
spaceman league?
Speaker 3: Oh? Sure I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well Bill, he played for Boston in the expos.
He holds the record as the most starts for a
left hander in Red Sox history. Right pitched in the seventies.
He grew up in this county. He went to the same
high school my kids went to. He pitched a game.
They paid him to pitch a game at sixty five
years old.
Speaker 3: Good for him.
Speaker 1: He pitched a complete game, went one for three with
a sacrifice and an RBI at the plate, and got
a nine to five victory.
Speaker 3: I think I remember thinking about him that he always
kept himself in great physical condition.
Speaker 1: He was said, well, I'd say he's got a nice
beer belly popping through the bottom of that jersey of his.
But he does play. He still plays hardball.
Speaker 3: He lives right with that arm, you know, because you'd
hurt yourself that.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious. He was throwing junk up there. It
was so much fun to watch these these youngsters just
totally baffled by what he was throwing at him.
Speaker 3: But Clemens is going to start for Houston. You know,
Amy Houston can't throw anyway fifty.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, that's not the kid. He's a
kid sixty five. This guy was pitching and it was
what nuts. And it was a bunch of old hippies
sitting in the stands. It was Hilo.
Speaker 3: They're both throwing from ninety feet, aren't they?
Speaker 1: Yes, they are.
Speaker 3: They didn't move the mound back to one hundred and
twenty feet.
Speaker 1: That's correct.
Speaker 3: That's my whole argument about golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this visual in my head that we
were going to put a hotel sign called the eight
Iron Inn.
Speaker 3: Because you're in that business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred and forty three yard approach. Okay, So
how do we do that? Where did then where do
we tee up from?
Speaker 3: Well, we're I don't care where your tea up from.
I mean, come on, you guys are smart people. Figure
it out. I'm just going to show you where you.
Speaker 1: Tea wherever you want your your initial tea shot. You
can go from wherever you want, as long as you're
at approximately one hundred and forty five yards to your.
Speaker 3: You'll figure it out. You'll figure out what set of
tea's worked for it.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like especially on golf courses where they're
mostly people and if you have an artificial need, do
you walk a golf course or you take a cart?
Speaker 3: Both the bens where I play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So if people are in golf carts, they're
never going to talk to each other. Then if they're
all teeing up from different spots the tea.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna tea. But that's my point. You see,
you got them tee it up from different spots because
you're trying to get them all to one hundred and
forty three. That's one of the misconceptions. We tee them
up from the same spot and guess what some of
the guys are going to be longer and they're gonna
hit it to one hundred and twenty and some are
gonna be shorter. They're gonna hit it t one hundred
and sixty.
Speaker 1: Then why is that different than having multiple take exactly?
Speaker 3: Why if you're playing against me and we're playing for something, okay, okay,
I'll play for that, all right. We're gonna play for something, okay,
And I'm let's say, for the sake of argument, I'm
longer than you are, okay. And I got a six
iron into the green and you got a hybrid. Okay,
who's got the edge? You do? You bet your life.
Now we play from the t's that I want us
to play from. And I'm still longer than you are.
You've got a seven iron into the green, and I've
got a nine iron into the green. Who's got the edge?
Speaker 1: You still do? But it's right.
Speaker 3: But now, all of a sudden, and now you stick
seven iron up there fifteen feet, which you probably couldn't
do with a hybrid. And now I got to hit
my shot and it's for a couple of bucks, and
you're looking at me and say, here, good luck, Barnyard.
Speaker 1: You know what you made me very nervous. I thought
you were going to tell me where to stick that
seven iron for a second.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see my point. Yeah, And that's that's one
of the misconceptions. It's we're going to have people tee
and off all over the place because everybody has to
get to exactly one forty three. Ain't gonna happen, right right,
ain't happen.
Speaker 1: So why is that different than having the blue teas,
the white tea's, the black tea's, and the red teas.
Speaker 3: I don't care what color they are. You can make
them polka dot.
Speaker 1: Why is that different? Why does that make that a
different program?
Speaker 3: Because we now understand where we have to drive the
golf ball to to play the same equivalent game as
the tour players. That's the big that's the that's the
mitigating factor.
Speaker 1: That's different playing the same game is.
Speaker 3: Okay, equivalent rank you are going to be as good
as they are, and you're not going to hit your
eight iron one sixty like.
Speaker 1: They do, right, oh god.
Speaker 3: But we're gonna have you hit your eight iron and
play from an equivalent distance because we're gonna make the
game faster and we're gonna make it more fun. And
what happens. When you start doing that, things enter the
equation that have been absent for a while, like cars
and an occasional birdie. You play faster. I mean, I
think one of the great travesties in golf was the
definition of the four hour round, because if four hours
is the average, then I guess four fifteen or four
to twenty is okay. And I can crawl most golf
courses with my bad knee in four twenty that's to
be that's ludicrous. But anyway, you'll speed up play and you'll,
as I said before, you'll have more fun and and
you should, and you will stem the tide of people
dropping out because it's an enjoyable experience and also enhance
the app opportunity for people to start playing game. You know,
let's let's say we're going to get eight new golfers
and we're gonna sum some lessons and you know, outfit
them with clubs and all of that kind of stuff.
And now we take it with a golf course and
tee it up from eight thousand yards. You know, it's
like driving people to a bad movie. You can go
in a limousine. You can give them popcorn, you can
do all kinds of things to make it a better deal.
But at the end of the day, it's still a
bad movie. Right, let's fix let's fix the movie. Right.
Speaker 1: But the experience may have been a little better because
it cost them nothing maybe if you're being maybe, but it.
Speaker 3: Took a long time.
Speaker 1: See here's what I don't understand about this, Barnie. And
and maybe I'm missing something. And usually when I play
with people and we're trying to decide what tea boxes
we're playing from, they'll say, oh, well, let's see, this
is sixty six hundred yards, this is seven thousand yards,
this is sixty two hundred yards. Let's play from sixty six.
And I'm saying, why does that matter. Let's look at
the rating and the slope. I always to me that
is the the great equalizer. When I say, oh, but
you know, if you play from the front ties, it's
a one twenty two. The middle ties is a you know,
a slope of a one twenty eight, and then you
one thirty five. Well, I'm not good when I I
don't play as well from a slope of one thirty five,
and I score really well on a one twenty. So
I try to play one twenty eight to when you
know one around and there. Why you keep talking about yardage,
but you're not talking about rating and slope.
Speaker 3: Who cares? Don't get me started rating and slope. You know,
I belong to a golf course that's seventy one hundred
yards from the back and sixty one hundred from the front.
I have the same handicap from four different sets of tees.
That's impossible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's impossible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it happens all the time. I get letters
all the time from people on that subject. I don't
I don't even go there. So you think the raising
I'm a very simple person. You had to teach me
how to make this phone call. You know, I have
very limited capabilities. I just want a little marker out
there that says, hit the ball around this area, and
you'd be playing from the same relative distance as the tour.
No more, no less.
Speaker 1: It's all based on yardage.
Speaker 3: It's all based on yardage. That's correct.
Speaker 1: And you say rating slope is something that is making
it too complicated because.
Speaker 4: No nobody canel You know, I sit on the tee
the other day and conduct a little experiment because all
the guys that hit it two fifty, and I had
we had a flag out there, and we had a
gun and we lasered it and it was too eighteen.
Speaker 3: So I said, well, obviously, if it's too eighteen and
you hit it two fifty, you should carry that, right
A nobody carried it, of course. B very few guys
got there in less than the first top. And see
they all left still thinking they hit it two fifty.
Speaker 1: So we were back to the yardage.
Speaker 3: Yep, I'm trying to I'm trying to boil this thing
down to the narrowest possible, simplest possible explanation, and quite frankly,
I have a I sort of have another plan, except
it's a little lot on my purview, but if I
could find one, if I could find a sponsor, I
would initiate a series of tournaments kind of like the
ultimostmobile scramble type of thing, except that it would be
a different format. But to get people used to playing
from these distances, I think that would be a great
way to kick this thing off.
Speaker 1: And so you're you're taking some credit for this idea
of the t and forward idea, the concept of the
yardage and getting people to play it or I wrote.
Speaker 3: I wrote the original story, and then I got contacted
by the PGA and the USGA and they said, this
is a good idea. And they said, uh.
Speaker 1: And it never crossed their mind before.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure it did. As a matter of fact,
I got I got the letters from some of the
guys I knew in the media that said, hey, you
know we've written about this before too. You know, there's
nothing new in golf. I think I just took a
little different approach by equating it to tour players. And
I caught on, that's.
Speaker 1: All I see. I see that that was your hook.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's you know, it's it's I'm not
interested in taking credit for anything. I'm an old person.
I like peace and quiet. I'd like to play from
teas where I can enjoy. I play golf with Lee Trevino.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 3: Last I heard he was. Last I heard he was
a pretty good player.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is he a lot of fun to play with?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And he hits it two fifty five off the tea,
not two fifty three, not two fifty seven, two fifty five. Wow,
that's the world he lives in. Or you know what
teas he plays? He plays the up tease. Why because
he said, you know, you know exactly what he told me.
He said, I want to be able to hit the
same shots into the green I always did. And there
it is, there it is. I mean, this is Trevino
talking about and I promise you I've never seen an
amateur at any level that can hit the ball close
to it as well as he hits it today. And
I have been around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've seen a couple of golfers play.
Speaker 3: I have been around.
Speaker 1: I see a huge stumbling block in all this golfer's egos.
Speaker 3: No fooling. I'm glad you caught onto that.
Speaker 1: Because guys play from the blues today.
Speaker 3: Why I belong to a men's club. Give me a break.
I live with this stuff. But I'll tell you there's
another there's another reason too. It's a little more subtle,
but it's equally powerful. And one of the great things
about golf is that it's played to a set of
standards as a general rule. And I mean they can
always find exceptions, but it's played to us a very
high set of standards.
Speaker 1: I might add.
Speaker 3: People play by the rules. For example, in the equipment business,
if you come up with a golf club that's miraculous
but doesn't fit the rules of golf. People won't buy it.
They want to play by the rules, which to me
is adds a veracity to They also be willing to
play from the same distance the tour players do. But
the bottom line is that when you have this sense
of integrity about the game and all of a sudden
you're playing from distances that are twenty thirty forty yards
closer than you used to, you feel guilty, You feel
like you're wrong, you feel like you're cheating. That's part
of the educational process. It's not true, but that's the feeling.
So that to me is as strong a feeling as ego.
And I'll give you a little one that you would
never figure in my time on the first t and
talking to people on trying to promote this just on
an individual basis, Guess where the most complaints have come from.
Speaker 1: Women? Absolutely, Oh you're kidding, is going to be like outrageously.
Speaker 3: I know, that's what I mean, that's the outrageous answer.
But but I mean I've had them just go up
one side of me and down the other, dress me
down about wanting to move the teas up so more
women could enjoy the game. And yet what's the big
movement by the PGA of America. The great untapped resource
for more golfers is women. Okay, let's have them play
from the equivalent of seventy four hundred yards. Guess what
will happen. They'll be slow, they won't have any fun,
and they'll quit. I've been in the golf business almost
thirty years. Literally annually for thirty years, I've heard that
the great influx of golfers we're going to be women.
It has never happened. One starts, one quits. Maybe if
we made the game, I mean, women aren't stupid, for
heaven's sakes, you know, maybe if we made the game
a little more amenable to them on course, maybe they'd
stick around for a while.
Speaker 1: And you think, what happened one of those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what happens to clubs is the good women players
don't want to give up their advantage. Oh right, that's simple.
Speaker 1: And how much? And I've always felt this way about
like the Golf channel, is that they cater if that's
the right word to the single digit uh. You know players,
the better players who aren't willing to give up the
ones that you're talking about that. Aren't willing to give
up something and you know there's such a small minority
of golfers.
Speaker 3: Sure, but but you got one thing about golf. Uh,
it's a top down influence game.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I mean you go out in the range and watch
to see what the eighteen handicapper is doing so he
can get better.
Speaker 1: No, I watched TV, gotcha.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so it's it's understand I mean I
understand that I do, however, fault the Golf Channel. It's
one of the advantages of being old and retired, you know,
I can speak my mind.
Speaker 1: And being on a podcast that nobody's listening to.
Speaker 3: Exactly right. They ought to be all they ought to
be all over this, and the reason they ought to
be all over this is it's good for their business. Yeah,
it's a business decision because when people quit the game,
that's viewers. People take up the game, that's viewers. They
ought to be the champion of this movement.
Speaker 1: Before when you said too slow, no fun, I was
always saying too slow, too hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's semantics. Okay, you think, but I argue against
it cost what I do talks on this thing. Oh well,
the game's too expensive, I say, I I absolutely disagree
with that.
Speaker 1: Oh, because that was my third point, and you weren't.
You were going to bring that up. It's like it's
too it's no fun or too too hard, too slow,
and it costs too much.
Speaker 3: I don't believe. I don't buy that for a second. Sure,
pebble bee'st costs too much at six hundred or something
like that. I mean, you know, give me the exceptions value.
How much would you pay to go to a bad movie?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm still forced to pay ten bucks?
Speaker 3: But help? I mean, really, how much would you pay
to go to a rotten movie? If you knew up
front it was going to be bad? You couldn't. You
can't make it cheap enough.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm saying, wait till it comes out on cable.
Speaker 3: I'll give you ten dollars if you go to this
rotten movie. So now, never mind. It's value. If the
game is fun, if people enjoy it, they'll pay a
fair price.
Speaker 1: And what's going to make them enjoy it more.
Speaker 3: Playing it from the properties or they're not beating their
brains out all.
Speaker 1: The time making the game easier.
Speaker 3: I don't think whoa whoa, whoa where Where did easier
come into all that? I must have missed when I
said that.
Speaker 1: No you didn't. I'm sorry. I'm saying. I think it's
it's about scoring is going to make it more fun,
better scoring. So many people.
Speaker 3: Are like, really, really, and you're gonna score better when
you get up there.
Speaker 1: No, it's still going to be hard to do.
Speaker 3: You bet your life it is. It's a whole Believe me,
I've had this. I had this conversation. I talked to
the guys I played with and I talked to them
to moving up a set of teas, and of course
they gave me a hard time. Blah blah blah blah.
We got around to one hole and everybody had wedges
to the green. Nobody hit the green. And I said
to him, I said, gosh, this is really getting easy
from up here. I said, we're going to shoot nothing. Yeah, right,
it isn't easier, it's just more relative. I guess that's
a double comparative. It's just relative.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's relative. But is that significantly changing it? You
think that change makes it? The change?
Speaker 3: I know it makes a huge change. Really, I know
what because I've heard from other people, I've forgotten how
much fun this game could be.
Speaker 1: So how do you do when you step up to
the tea on the first tee? You got your foursome
together and say, all right, we're going to do a
little bit differently today. We're going to play from. And
what is it that you're agreeing upon?
Speaker 3: I don't know. You're gonna play fro whever you want.
You're just gonna know that out there there's a marker
and that's where you should be hitting your second shot from.
And you'll learn, I mean, come on, golfers aren't dumb.
They'll figure it out. There's there's this mental there's this thing.
I don't know what the word is that we have
to present golfers with Christine specific information, like there are
a bunch of morons, you know, they don't know what
to do, and okay, now you have to go to
this tee and then step three steps backwards or do this?
Come on, Golfers are are as a rule, are very
intelligent people. If they know that it's that the relative
the ten foot basket is out there where that little
marker is on the fair way, and they also know
that it's okay to be a little short of it
or to be past it, because after all, it's an in,
it's an you know, it's not a specific game. They'll
figure it out. I don't have to. I'm not gonna
tell them. That's that to me, that's nuts. That's that's
where you get into trouble. Well, I should play here
because I hit a two sixty off the tee. Oh okay,
you don't. But now what do we do? That's why
I say I get away from all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So then the buy in from the golf courses to
participate in this is nothing more than putting a marker
at one hundred and forty x yards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and having it. I think having it. I think
it should be done under the auspices of the PGA,
where the regional guy comes out and you know, officially,
you know, says yeah, we've just signed up you know,
the fred Green Country Club and so on, and they
got the markers, et cetera. Then that I would also
I would also suggest that they started off with an event,
because there's an education process involved to do just what
you were asking, to help people find out where they
should tee off from and so on. Yeah, maybe a
series of events, but I mean it's more than just
sticking the markers in the fairway. That's the first step.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the education process is huge, and I
appreciate that you're giving me your time to educate us
because I'm still a little baffled on some of this stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, well, you're slow, you're slow, but you'll pick
it up.
Speaker 1: It's my internet connection.
Speaker 3: I understand.
Speaker 1: Party.
Speaker 3: If you listen, what do you think about this? It's
not eight you'll say, Holy I got it now, I understand.
Speaker 1: Well that's why, hopefully can we continue to do you
have to run? Or can we continue talking about I'm retired? Okay,
So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do part
two of this conversation. We're going to hang up right.
We're not going to hang up. We're just going to
let people know that part two of this cover. Yeah,
we're gonna go hang up right, and and we're going
to tell everybody that the Part two of this conversation
is going to be a Golf Smarter for members only episode.
So if you want to hear more about what Barney
has to say about this, and actually, if you don't mind,
I'm gonna want to dig into your history, a little
bit about how you got to golf, and he's looking
up in the sky. He's like, I'm so bored listening
to this. He wants to eat. I want I want
to know the history of Adam's golf. I'm not gonna
about not what's going on now, but how you got
started that coming from cause you mentioned me you came
from Silicon Valley, So I don't see that you came
from being a golf pro and had an idea for
a golf club, but you sure turned into something big
with that way.
Speaker 3: I looked up with this guy because at this stage,
because I've gone I've done this many times. I always
invent something new every time.
Speaker 1: Awesome. All right, So Part two of this conversation with
Barney Adams formerly of Adams Golf, namesake of Adams Golf
on golf Smarter for members only, So please go to
golf smarter dot com and join today so you don't
miss this or get access to all of our archives
of well over three hundred episodes of the golf Smarter podcast. Barney,
thank you so much for greed for part two and
for coming on explaining to forward.
Speaker 3: You see over my head. By the way, that's a
signed I want you to know, a signed picture from
my hero, Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask about that because I've been
scaring you know, every time you look at your socks.
I've been looking at that picture.
Speaker 3: Going, well, that's true, and the light reflects off my
head and it kind of blurs the picture. So I
wanted to be clear.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't blur it at all. It makes it
look like he's under a spotlight.
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, Part two coming up.
Speaker 1: Well, once again it's time to talk to Terry Kaylor's
CEO of Score Golf about your questions on your short game,
and then Terry answers them, and if he answers your
question on the Golf Smarter podcast, you are going to
receive a customized Score forty one sixty one money club
for yourself to try out at no charge. Right right, Hey, Terry,
I'm doing well. Thank you got a great question here,
because I think it's something that's on the mind of
almost every golfer, you know, as they continue to progress
in their game and they're starting to figure out that
they can't do a lot of stuff. This one comes
from Steve Zintas of Baltimore, Maryland, and he says, when
I watch golf on TV, I noticed there are several
times when players hit short, little pitch and chip shots,
the ball would hit the green stop and then back up.
Other times the ball would run out. It does when
most of us hit the ball. So how is it
possible to get so much spin on the ball from
such a short distance with less than a full swing
and obtain that kind of reaction.
Speaker 5: Well, that's a great question. See spin is one of
the great mysteries of shots. And you know, I want
to start. There's a bunch of different elements that affect
your ability to spin the golf ball. Let's work from
the hole backward. One of the first elements is what
kind of greens are you hitting into?
Speaker 1: And you know, a bent.
Speaker 5: Grass green that's a little on the soft side is
gonna it's going to take more spin and react and
grab the ball better than a bermuda grass green that's
that's firmer. You have different so different turfs are gonna
are gonna, you know, allow that spin to take effect.
The other thing is that a lot of people don't
look at whether you're pitching that ball into the grain
or against the grain. It has a lot to do
with how you can make that ball react when it
hits the green. A third element is the slope. Are
you hitting it into a slope? Are you hitting it
into a down slope? Has a lot more has a
lot to do with it. You take those variables out,
let's go to what happens between the green and the club.
You've got the golf ball, and the pros all play
a very high spinning golf ball. A lot of amateurs
are playing these balls that are more distance oriented, maybe
a little lower price point ball, which is fine, but
I always recommended to people forget distance, play the highest
spinning ball that you can find, and it's going to
give you more control around the green. And all the
balls are long nowadays, I mean you're not going to
give up three or four yards, and I mean what
the ball ends in the fairway makes a much bigger impact. Well,
then you come back to the moment of truth, the
club ball impact point. And for a golf ball to
be imparted with the maximum amount of spin, a few
things have to happen. One thing is is that the
ball has to adhere to the face of the club
and get a good friction on the face of the club,
so if you're in grass, if you're in you know,
have a little moisture on it. If the grooves on
your club aren't clean. These things all will will reduce
the amount of spin you can put on the ball.
One of my favorite little tricks for when I want
to hit a higher spinning shot is I like to
focus on the on the forward edge of the ball,
the side of the ball closest to the hole, so
that I can make sure I make ball first contact,
that I that that club is on the ball before
it hits you know, the turf. But there's also and
one other thing you have to understand about the tour players.
If you want to learn to spend the ball like them,
it's really pretty easy. Go invest thousands of dollars in
lessons and spend at least three or four hours a
day hitting these little short.
Speaker 3: Cuts, because that's what they do.
Speaker 5: As the commercial said, these guys are good and they practice,
and when the when the groove thing changed a few
years ago, these guys all went out and spent hours
and hours and hours and hours with their witches and
their arms in their hand to try to understand what
the new spin was like, and they all learned how
to spin the ball just as good with the new
grooves as the old grooves. And it goes back to
practice practice. There's a technique that I had a tour
player showing me that these guys are all perfecting now
that they're they're letting the club release more. And you
look at a lot of amateurs and they get their
hands way out ahead of the ball and they kind
of hood the club down and they're very stiff risted,
and they turned their their fifty sixty three sandwich into
a forty eight or forty nine degree club. They've taken
the bounce out of it. And that's not the way
to get spind The way you want to maximize the
spin is to let that club, you know, you get
the club back, let the club fully release under the ball,
so the clubhait is almost passing your hands when it
makes contact on that little short shot, and you have
a little higher acceleration in the clubhead. But you're also
adding loft to that shot, and that increases spin. But
bear in mind, the golf on TV that we watch
is designed for TV audiences, and TV audiences like to
see these guys shoot twenty and twenty five under. You know,
those of us that are seasoned golfers, we tend to
like to see them grind to shoot even par. But
that's not what TV is about. So to go back
to practice feeling a real crisp click when you hit
the ball, to let you know you're really making ball
first contact. And don't get all excited about backing the
golf ball. I mean, you're not going to probably do that.
You're not playing the same kind of greens. But you
know you can learn to check the ball a little
better than you probably do, and that comes from using
all the loft on the club and letting that club
release through the ball properly, making sure you have really
good crisp contact, and you're using a golf ball that
really takes spin, because some balls don't take spin very well,
and you don't, you know, you're just going to be
fighting a losing battle if you're If you're doing that,
make sure the grooves on your club are clean. As
I said, I mean grooves that are filled up with dirt,
they're not gonna spin the ball well. Make sure the
face of the club is clean.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're repeating that because you know, like
I'm nuts about taking my little metal brush after almost
every shot or before every shot and making sure that
the grooves are you know, debris free. And people look
at me like why do you carry so much junk?
It's like, are you kidding? Do you know what happens
when you get all the mud on. It's like hitting
a ball that's gotten mud all over it. It's not
gonna react the way you hope.
Speaker 5: No, it really doesn't. I mean, the equipment, there's a
lot happening in that millise that the ball is in
contact with the face and good, good clean grooves, a
good club that's not worn out. But a lot of
it's about technique and don't try to chop down on
the golf ball, and don't worry about this really you know,
harsh descending blow, you know, any kind of a I
mean that's kind of hard on your joints and everything
to be pounding into the ground like that. But just
look at work on really crisp clean to contact and
work on kind of pinching that ball into the turf
and letting that leading edge of the club be where
you make contact and practice it. Steve, I mean, it
really is about your short game. If you want to
be really good, you've got to practice it. And you know,
you can go out in an hour and hit one
hundred to one hundred and twenty little short game shots
because you're not taking these big wind up golf swings,
and and you'll learn a lot. I mean, just practice
different things and experiment, have fun, be creative and say,
wonder what happened if I kind of do the little
flippy thing with hands, and you know, just learn a
good technique and learn what you know how to do.
And then when you're in the golf course and you're
trying to determine what kind of shot you want to
into that flag, walk up there and look at the green.
See if the green is running you know, at you
or are away from you, and you know feel the green.
Is it firm and hard up there and you're going
to have to allow for some rollout? Or you know,
is that green a little mushy under your feet? You're saying,
you know, this is pretty cushiony. Some greens they have
a thick thatch of grass and it almost just like
a spring. What you're you know, the green that you're
going to be able to really stick the ball on
it's going to be a little soft under your feet,
but it has a very thin layer of grass, so
that you know the grass isn't providing a sponginess.
Speaker 1: Fabulous. I you know, I just I can't tell you
how much I love this part of the education that
we're getting on this podcast because it's so specific and
it's not necessarily mechanics, right it there's elements of it,
but there's so much more to it, and I really
appreciate your knowledge on this, Terry. This is fabulous.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you know, I've spent a lifetime studying
this game and thirty years in this industry and studying
equipment and effect. And why do I want to, you know,
die with all that knowledge? I mean, the only thing
that to me, the fun thing about knowing something this
year and it with somebody that'd like to know it.
You're and so I take great, great pleasure in that.
Speaker 1: You do a great job. Thank you well, Steve. Congratulations.
You are now eligible to have a customized Score forty
one sixty one money club made for you, and the
folks at score Golf will help you do that. Tell
us about the information they can fill out that will
help you determine which is the best scoring club for them.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, what we've done is really recreate the
short end of the set. It's no longer about being
satisfied with a nine iron and a pitch that that
match or six iron looked like a six arm, because
that's not the right way to design those high loft clubs.
Just no longer about playing quote wedges. The reason we
don't use the terms we don't make wedges. What we're
doing is so far evolved from wedges. And I've got
a collection of old wedges, and your members have heard
me say this before, but I've got wedges from the
forties and fifties that you can't tell the difference between
them and a twenty eleven model or a nineteen ninety
two model. There's been no evolution in this category. And
the high loft golf clubs in the old days, Ben
Ogan and all those guys, they never hit them over
twenty five or thirty yards. But we use these as
full swing clubs now, and all that weight real low
causes blending trajectories and inconsistent distance control. So every golfer
has got their own right prescription.
Speaker 1: Phenomenal, all right, thanks so much, Terry. We'll talk to
you
Speaker 5: Soon, okay, thank you Fred