WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.000 Yesterday on the show, I admit I was struggling a 2 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:05.360 little bit with my thoughts and what I thought about, 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:09.199 certainly not what I thought about the Biden pardons, which 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:15.599 I thought were ridiculous and inexcusable. I was a little 5 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:22.519 bit struggling with the blanket Trump pardons for everyone involved, 6 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.000 everyone who's been convicted for January six and for all 7 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:31.559 the people with criminal cases surrounding the January sixth, twenty 8 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.560 twenty one riot at the Capitol. And I hopefully this 9 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.159 is the last I have to do. This stupid genuflection 10 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:44.560 of January sixth was a bad thing, but not everyone 11 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:46.920 involved in January six deserved to have the book thrown 12 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:51.240 at them. And I genuinely think there was massive over 13 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:56.560 prosecution of January sixth defendants. A lot of these people 14 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.359 were being prosecuted for stuff that nobody gets prosecuted for, 15 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:05.920 heavily prosecuted for things that amounted to really nothing more 16 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:14.040 than trespass type crimes. Basically, the chief crime that most 17 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.200 of the January sixth defendants in common got charged with 18 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.000 was I think the term for it is parading. It's 19 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.400 basically being on a patch of federal property that you're 20 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.239 not authorized to be on. So it's a little different 21 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.159 from trespass because it's public property, but you're not allowed 22 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:34.560 to be on all kinds of public property. You can't 23 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.120 just walk onto a military base and just waltz in 24 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.879 and do stuff as a civilian. No, you have to 25 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:45.000 be authorized to be there and to throw the book 26 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.799 at people for crimes that are basically no more than trespass. 27 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.040 When there is video evidence of in some cases police 28 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.519 officers sort of waving people in, or the whole crowd 29 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:56.840 going in, and people like WHOA, Okay, I guess I'll 30 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:02.040 just go in to aggressively throw the book at those 31 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:07.480 people I thought was wrong. I was fine with prosecuting 32 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:11.159 anyone who beat up a cop or who assaulted a cop, 33 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:19.719 but I thought it was a ridiculous over prosecution to 34 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:24.719 make this one of the largest criminal prosecution efforts in 35 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:30.039 DOJ history, To have expended that much time, that much energy, 36 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.639 that much effort, and to make January sixth as if 37 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:36.560 that was the single most horrific event in American history. 38 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:42.919 It's just ridiculous. The only person killed on January sixth 39 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:50.560 was a Trump protester. The you know that there were 40 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.280 was a police officer who had a heart attack and 41 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:57.120 died like the next day, and there was this massive 42 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.759 effort to not talk about in the media and in 43 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.639 sources the medical examiners report on him, which said, no, 44 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:06.960 he died of natural causes. He didn't actually die from 45 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.159 anything having to do with January sixth. He wasn't killed 46 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:16.159 by the January sixth protesters. Now, so basically, what I'm 47 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:18.039 trying to say is it's not the worst thing. It's 48 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:19.759 not a good thing, but it's not the worst thing 49 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.039 that's ever happened in American history. And the idea of 50 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:27.240 making it and prosecuting everyone who was there the centerpiece 51 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.919 of the DOJ's agenda for four years was ridiculous, and 52 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.800 I think it was pointedly a kind of act of 53 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:39.960 political vengeance that I thought was improper, especially given the 54 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:43.319 kinds of things that the federal government, that federal prosecutors 55 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:50.080 patently just didn't really want to concern themselves with over 56 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:53.800 the last you know, eight years, even over the last 57 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:58.719 four years. You know, the people who were rioting outside 58 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.919 the Federal court House in Portland, Oregon during the George 59 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:09.120 Floyd riots for months and months and months and throwing 60 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.319 molotov cocktails into the courthouse. Oh no, we're not really 61 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.879 very aggressively prosecuting any of those people. There were all 62 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.879 kinds of people who got sweetheart easy deals for various 63 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:27.519 aspects of George Floyd protests. Protests where actual cops actually 64 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.959 got killed. Sorry, I don't want to imply the Capitol 65 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.439 police are not actual cops. Protests where cops actually did 66 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.759 get killed though in some cases, or where other people 67 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:45.480 actually got killed, where people have not gotten as serious sentences. 68 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.480 And the DJ did not make the George Floyd riots 69 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.279 the kind of centerpiece of their enforcement in nearly the 70 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.079 same way that they did January sixth, And it's because 71 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.759 of the politics involved. They just decided, well, they were 72 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:04.120 going to characterize January sixth because it was a right 73 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:09.040 wing effort that this is the worst thing in the world, 74 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.199 and Merrick Garland came out and said it. First. They 75 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:19.519 characterized it as a white supremacist terrorism, which is ridiculous. Again, 76 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:21.879 I'm not here saying any of it was good, but 77 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:28.079 the idea that it was white supremacist motivated anything was ridiculous. 78 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.560 It was a bunch of Trump supporters who were convinced 79 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.560 that the election had been stolen from him. It didn't 80 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:41.680 have anything to do with white supremacism. But Merrick Garland 81 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.560 comes out and says white supremacist terrorism is the single 82 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.560 biggest national security threat to the United States. He said that, 83 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:53.759 not me. He said that. We then proceeded to have 84 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.040 plain old normal terrorism in the last week of the 85 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.279 Biden administration. And you know, Karreeine Jean Pierre got the 86 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:04.639 excellent question, does the Biden administration still think that white 87 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:12.160 supremacist terrorism is the single biggest threat facing the country. Now, 88 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.439 with all that said, I totally supported the idea of 89 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.519 Trump pardoning everyone involved with January sixth who is being 90 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:28.839 aggressively over prosecuted for trespass. I wasn't crazy about the 91 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:34.879 idea of just pardoning anyone who was being prosecuted for 92 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:43.800 assault assaulting police officers because I think from the right 93 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.959 and as someone who has appreciated a lot of a 94 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:51.839 lot of the Trump certain ways in which Trump has 95 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.160 changed the Republican Party for the better. As far as doctrine, 96 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.240 I've been vastly disappointed in Trump two point zero on 97 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.560 the kind of seeming retreat on abortion. I guess we'll 98 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.399 see what Trump two point zero is actually going to 99 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:12.360 do with regards to abortion. I have been angered at 100 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.959 the way that a couple of dufuses in the front 101 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:19.759 row at January sixth started fighting cops and gave this 102 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:25.319 black eye to the entire conservative movement. So I didn't 103 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:34.800 necessarily want clemency for those people. Trump gave it to everybody. 104 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:39.000 And I read this, this opinion by this guy named 105 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:45.759 Sean Trendy who works for Real Clear Politics, and he 106 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:47.959 had this to say that I thought was really insightful 107 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:56.120 to understand the rights attitude regarding January sixth. They believe 108 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.639 that the reason the dividing line between January sixth protesters 109 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.079 getting prosecuted and say, the Portland rioters not getting prosecuted 110 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:12.600 is because the quote norms are set by liberals to 111 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:18.680 protect liberal in groups while allowing the prosecution of out groups. 112 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.920 This is also the dividing line between Trump aligned populace 113 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:30.480 and GOP establishment types. The latter. The establishment types say well, 114 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:36.559 we should prosecute the goons. We should prosecute the goons 115 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:41.519 in Oregon. Also, so the Republican establishment he types people 116 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:44.639 like me, I guess, would say, hey, I think we 117 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.240 should prosecute the people who did violence on January sixth, 118 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.000 and we should prosecute the people who committed violent acts 119 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:51.919 during the George Floyd riots, or the Portland or the 120 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:57.600 Oregon courthouse riots, et cetera. The Trump folks say that 121 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:03.200 this is a hopelessly naive perspective, because again, the lines 122 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.840 are set by liberals to protect their in groups. So 123 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.279 maybe this is the one thing that makes me think 124 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.879 maybe I'm naive. A Trump aligned person would say, you 125 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.039 want to not pardon the people who did violence on 126 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:22.399 January sixth, I say, yes, I don't want to pardon 127 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.360 the people who assaulted cops. What about the people in Oregon, Well, 128 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.960 I would say, I think those people should be prosecuted too. Well, 129 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:29.919 they're not gonna. 130 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:33.960 Be because the norms, the rules that have been drawn 131 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.679 up have been drawn up by liberals, by the liberals 132 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.039 who are still obviously controlling things within the Department of 133 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:48.159 Justice during the first Trump administration, who didn't initiate those prosecutions. 134 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:55.960 Now. Sean Trendy writes, this isn't a defense of the 135 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:00.600 populace at all. This is just to explain, and I 136 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.000 think this does a better job of explaining this idea 137 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.799 than anything else. This is to explain the burn it 138 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:11.720 all down mindset. It is a rigged game with rules 139 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.159 set by liberals. If this sounds like left critiques of 140 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.960 the past decade, well that's why we're getting this horseshoe 141 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.960 effect where Trump and RFK are all of a sudden allies. 142 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:33.159 And obviously for Trump supporters people on the right to 143 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.879 argue that January sixth was so much worse somehow than 144 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.960 the Portland, Oregon riots or all the George Floyd riots, 145 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:45.639 et cetera, that's not gonna That doesn't work. That doesn't 146 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.840 make any sense. Even if you were to admit somehow 147 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:51.320 that January sixth was worse, which I don't think it 148 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.120 was worse than the George Floyd riots or anything else. 149 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.679 Trump aligned people will pull to the dividing line. The 150 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.840 dividing line between whom we punish and whom we don't 151 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:11.159 is always magically set to excuse people on the left 152 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:19.399 and to punish people on the right. The populist right, 153 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:24.120 the Trump right. Their main deviation from the establishment is 154 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.440 a belief that they can and should use their power 155 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.600 to set what are viewed to be arbitrary rules to 156 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.360 their benefit when they have the chance. That to me, 157 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.240 is kind of a That was I think the most 158 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:45.000 powerful argument I've read about why Trump pardoning all those 159 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.960 people makes a lot of sense. Now again, I guess 160 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.000 there's a part of me that admits, yes, I think 161 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:57.320 the Trump people are totally correctly aggrieved at January sixth 162 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.759 getting punished wholesale. George Floyd riots not getting punished hardly 163 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:04.919 at all. Sweetheart deals being given to George Floyd, Rioders, 164 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:09.639 et cetera, et cetera. You know, some rich liberal lawyer 165 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:12.279 in Manhattan who fire bombs a police car and somehow 166 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:16.200 gets a sweetheart deal, doesn't get prosecuted all that hard, 167 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:23.840 et cetera. Now I guess my preference, my initial instinct 168 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:29.799 would have been, listen, the Trump team needs to come in. 169 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.399 They should actually do a review of every individual January 170 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:38.039 sixth case. If it's something, and the dividing line should 171 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:42.000 be did you assault a cop? If you assaulted a cop, 172 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:47.320 maybe you can have your sentence commuted to something a 173 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:54.360 little less severe, something that's in line with other prosecutions 174 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.080 of other kinds of crimes throughout the country. Everyone who 175 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.840 was just being charged with effectively trespassed who normally the 176 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.759 federal government would not pursue prosecutions like that. Basically, I 177 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.919 just want to actually treat the January sixth protesters the 178 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.919 way that federal prosecutors treat others similarly situated people. And 179 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.480 the problem maybe that I'm I'm up against it might 180 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.799 maybe my naivete is that there we're never going to 181 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:22.320 do that. They're not going to do that, They're not 182 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.480 going to treat them similarly situatedly, And it's naive to 183 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:32.200 expect it that our side should be calling balls and 184 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:38.200 strikes while the other side is not doing that. I 185 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.440 don't know. There's a part of me that says we 186 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:43.600 should still do that, and there's another part of me 187 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:47.919 that's naive. Now the other side maybe the third option 188 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.120 here that maybe makes sense, and maybe this is what 189 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:57.840 you know, maybe this is what Trump is thinking. Maybe 190 00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:59.399 we just need to kind of turn the page on 191 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:07.039 January as a whole pro con good, bad, indifferent. It 192 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:13.200 wasn't the defining political event of the decade. It wasn't 193 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.320 the single worst event in human history. It wasn't a 194 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:25.320 good thing. And maybe the combo, honestly of one Biden 195 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:29.720 pardoning all the members of the January sixth Committee, which 196 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.720 I did not like which he did on the morning 197 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.519 of January twentieth, and Donald Trump pardoning all of the 198 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:42.440 January sixth defendants the afternoon of January twentieth. Maybe that 199 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.600 combo allows us to just kind of turn the page 200 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.919 on it and just stop talking about January sixth in general. 201 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:55.000 And maybe there's wisdom there, you know, maybe there's wisdom there, 202 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:01.480 Maybe the combination of people pursuing their own particulular political 203 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:06.840 preferences and desires. You know, Biden not wanting Lynn Cheney 204 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.559 to have to face any kind of music for you know, 205 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:14.679 was she tampering with witnesses or whatever. Trump basically saying, look, 206 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.759 these people supported me, They've gone through hell the last 207 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:23.960 four years. That's enough. Maybe that combo will just allow 208 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.879 the country to sort of turn the page. And maybe 209 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:28.799 the combo of those two pardons from Biden and Trump 210 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.639 has the effect of we turned the page on Watergate 211 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.000 when Gerald Ford pardons Richard Nixon. We turned the page 212 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.639 on Vietnam when Jimmy Carter pardons all the Vietnam War 213 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:49.559 draft dodgers. Maybe maybe that's what happens. I hope that's 214 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.519 what happens. So I will say again, maybe There's there's 215 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.080 a part of me that still is like, I don't 216 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.759 know that I would have pardoned anyone who beat up 217 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.559 a cop on January sixth, specifically because of how it 218 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.639 hurt the right in no small part, and just you know, 219 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:09.039 beating up cops is not a good thing. But there's 220 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.840 also this part of me that understands that, that kind 221 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.559 of understands the idea of maybe doing this just the 222 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.480 combo of Biden partnering all the January sixth committee members 223 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.200 Trump pardoning all the January sixth defendants. It's a clean slate, 224 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:24.840 and we move on as a country from this whole 225 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:31.879 episode when we return a couple of more Biden pardoned 226 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.720 thoughts and a thought on how to reform the pardons 227 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.360 system next on the John Girardi Show. After the Biden 228 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:44.399 pardons and the disgraceful pardoning of his own family members, like, 229 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:49.639 with literally minutes left to his administration, he pardons all 230 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.200 the other members of his family, which which I sort 231 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.039 of knew was happening, I will confess the morning of 232 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:58.840 January twentieth, I was thinking, Wow, he still hasn't pardoned 233 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.679 Jim Biden and the the other family members he pardoned 234 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.680 people that morning. He pardoned the January sixth committee members, 235 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:09.559 and he pardoned Anthony Fauci, and he had a big 236 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.079 statement about those two pardons Biden did that he released, 237 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.279 but there was no pardon yet for Jim and the 238 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.720 other Biden family members. And I was sitting there thinking, Wow, 239 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.960 is he really going to pardon Hunter for all the 240 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.119 stuff he did but not pardon Jim. And then of course, 241 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.480 like I think it was literally within an hour, because 242 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:32.720 the new president is sworn in at noon on January twentieth, 243 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.200 I think it was, and so nine o'clock our time. 244 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:39.200 I think the pardon came down maybe literally at eight 245 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.920 thirty or eight forty our time, so you know, eleven 246 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:48.519 thirty eleven forty East Coast time. So at any rate, 247 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:57.400 Joe pardons his family. The flurry of pardons from both sides, 248 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:02.279 I think has led to some people sort of looking 249 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.440 at the presidential pardon power, which is, you know, it's 250 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.400 been a feature of the Constitution from the beginning. It's 251 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.960 a holdover from the British Constitution, the unwritten British Constitution 252 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:17.319 that where the monarch had the ability to pardon people 253 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.440 for crimes. And I talked about this on the show 254 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.799 how it was famous about Queen Victoria had very particular 255 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.920 thoughts about the pardon power and how she would exercise 256 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.400 it for people who committed voluntary manslaughter. And so this 257 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.240 is a power that the monarch had in Great Britain, 258 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:40.200 and the Founding Fathers retained it within our constitution, the 259 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.160 idea being well, this is sort of like a safety 260 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:47.440 release valve in the event of, you know, a bad prosecution. 261 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:49.279 But there's a couple of things to think about with 262 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:54.119 the pardon power. One, when the Founding Fathers put the 263 00:18:54.160 --> 00:19:00.119 pardon power in place, they didn't have the expansive body 264 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:06.559 of federal law that we current have currently have. In fact, 265 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.359 like the total number of federal crimes at that time 266 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.920 was like treason and it was pretty much yet, I mean, 267 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.680 the body of federal law just was not especially federal 268 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:23.400 criminal law was not a very well developed thing. We 269 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.720 had an Attorney General from pretty early on. The office 270 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.680 of the Attorney General was created very shortly after the 271 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.880 adoption of the new Constitution, but we didn't even have 272 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:38.079 a Department of Justice until I think was the late 273 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:44.519 nineteenth early twentieth century. The body of federal criminal law 274 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:52.079 just was not really developed yet, and thus, as a result, 275 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.200 the scope of the kinds of things that the president 276 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.000 could pardon people for was a lot smaller. At the 277 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:06.319 time of the founding, most criminal prosecution, and as a result, 278 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.880 pardoning was happening in the United States at the level 279 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:14.359 of the states. Okay, Most criminal law enforcement in America 280 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:19.400 is done through state level prosecutors. Okay. Lisa Smith Camp, 281 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.079 who's the DA of Fresno County. She is not a 282 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:29.000 federal prosecutor. She's a California state prosecutor. Okay. She prosecutes 283 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:35.880 people who violate California criminal law within Fresno County. Sally 284 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:40.039 Moreno does that within Madera County. Okay. Most of American 285 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:44.559 criminal laws handled at the state level, and the governors 286 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.759 of the various states have the pardon power for people 287 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.799 who violate California law, Arizona law, New Mexico law, Hawaii law, 288 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.640 Alaska law, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. The governor can pardon people 289 00:20:57.640 --> 00:20:59.839 who violate state crimes the way the president can violate 290 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.720 people who violate federal law. Can pardon people who violate 291 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:10.240 federal law. But what we've seen with the presidents is Honestly, 292 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:15.160 the last five or six presidents have issued pardons that 293 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.039 were really pretty questionable, and a lot of it's happening 294 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:22.160 in this sort of interregnum period between election day and 295 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:28.200 inauguration day, specifically being done because there won't be political 296 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:34.119 ramifications for it. Biden doesn't pardon Hunter or his family 297 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:39.200 until after election day, as everyone predicted. Why well, because 298 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.079 if he did it before election day, he would suffer 299 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.720 some bad political result. This is the best proposal I've 300 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.079 heard for amending the constitution to sort of reduce the 301 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.759 pardon power, because you would have to amend the constitution, 302 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.519 and I think at this point both Democrats and Republicans 303 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.079 can point to instances of a president from the other 304 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.359 party using the pardon power in a way they didn't like. 305 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.160 I think a great proposal for limiting the pardon power 306 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.440 would be to keep it from being like venal a 307 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.599 venal personal political a venal personal use of the pardon 308 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.279 power to prevent against the Joe Bidens of the world 309 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:29.559 pardoning his son and his family and thereby protecting himself. 310 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.240 That's the real thing is Biden is kind of protecting 311 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:37.920 himself for his potentially criminal involvement in his son and 312 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:44.240 his brother's shady business dealings. Here's the proposal that I like, 313 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:50.519 no pardons between election day and inauguration day. No pardons 314 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:54.759 between election day and inauguration day. I think that's a 315 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:59.960 really sensible idea. In fact, maybe a month before election, 316 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:01.880 just to account for the fact that so many states 317 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:07.240 have early voting. No pardons between the election and inauguration day. 318 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.200 If you want to pardon someone, you need to be 319 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:15.799 able to take the political hit that results. I think 320 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.160 that's a sound idea. Now, you can't just do that 321 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.519 by executive order, you wave a magic wand you would 322 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.839 need to amend the Constitution, get two thirds majorities in 323 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:26.920 both houses of Congress, get three fourths of the states 324 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:28.759 to vote for it. But I think that would be 325 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:32.319 a really sensible way to limit the pardon power. Now, 326 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.759 when we return talking about amending the Constitution, I want 327 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:41.200 to talk about two ways in which two consecutive presidents 328 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:47.359 are trying to argue that the Constitution says something different 329 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:50.680 than we'd think. Biden's saying that the era is now 330 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.359 a new amendment to the Constitution, and President Trump trying 331 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.880 to get rid of birthright citizenship via the Fourteenth Amendment. 332 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.920 That's next on the John Girardi Show. Two significant constitutional 333 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:09.880 efforts were issued by two different presidents over the course 334 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:11.519 of a couple of days, and I'm going to talk 335 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.960 about them in turn and the issues pro and con 336 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:17.519 for both of them. One is Joe Biden trying to 337 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.039 argue that the Equal Rights Amendment is in fact a 338 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.920 real amendment to the Constitution is now the twenty eighth Amendment. 339 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:32.359 And then President Trump arguing that the Fourteenth Amendment does 340 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:38.079 not protect birthright citizenship, just the Fourteenth Amendment does not 341 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.279 protect the idea that just because you're born on American soil, 342 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.559 that does not automatically make you an American citizen. Let's 343 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:50.920 dig into it first. Let's talk about Biden's era argument. Now. 344 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.480 I talked about this a little on the show earlier 345 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.119 this week. The Equal Rights Amendment was this effort by 346 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:03.160 liberals to sort of shoehorn in of ticking constitutional time 347 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:09.240 bomb into the Constitution, a very simple text that guarantees 348 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.079 no discrimination on the basis of sex, putting that into 349 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.799 the Constitution. And when it was first introduced, everyone supported it. 350 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.880 I believe President Nixon supported it, President Ford supported it. 351 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.440 Jimmy Carter supported. Everyone supported it. Republicans liked it, Democrats 352 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.160 liked it. It got the necessary two thirds majorities in 353 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.440 both houses of Congress and was well on its way 354 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:35.920 to ratification by the state legislatures. Again, it's two thirds 355 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.240 majorities in both houses of Congress plus three quarters of 356 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.759 all the state legislatures have to vote for something to 357 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:46.920 be included into the Constitution as an amendment. By the way, 358 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.720 a little basic civics thing, there's some people who don't 359 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.119 understand what an amendment to the Constitution actually is. They'll say, well, 360 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.680 it's not in the constitution, it's just an amendment. No. 361 00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:00.920 It an amendment means we are changing the constitution to 362 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.240 say this. Everything that's in an amendment to the Constitution 363 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.640 is part of the Constitution, unless like a subsequent amendment 364 00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:13.119 is repealing a prior amendment, like with prohibition for example. 365 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.240 So if it's an amendment to the Constitution, it's in 366 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:19.680 the constitution. Just a basic thing that some people screw up. 367 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.319 So it got the necessary two thirds votes in both 368 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:27.920 houses of Congress, it was well on its way to 369 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:32.119 three quarters of the state legislatures ratifying it. The era itself, 370 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.319 though had a provision saying it had a seven year 371 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:40.039 window in which it needed to be ratified, needed to 372 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:43.160 get the necessary three quarters of the states to ratify 373 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:50.319 it within seven years. Along comes Phyllis Schlaffley. Phyllis Schlaffley, 374 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.920 who single handedly shifted the whole Republican Party on the 375 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:56.759 issue of the Equal Rights Amendment by pointing out that 376 00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.599 this would be interpreted by the courts to lead to 377 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:04.119 all kinds of disastrous left wing ideas. It would further 378 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.119 buttress the idea of abortion being part of the Constitution, 379 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.680 It could get rid of any kind of legally recognized 380 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.400 differences on the basis of sex, whether it's within accommodations, 381 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.920 within sports, within bathrooms, within this, within that. And she 382 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.119 paraded out this list of horribles things that actually became 383 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:27.279 true over time, because it's how the liberals wound up 384 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:33.440 interpreting other aspects of American law protecting people from discrimination 385 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.759 on the basis of sex. It's literally what Justice Gorsuch 386 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:44.960 did with the Bowstock decision. So Phylish Laughley incredibly prescient, 387 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.559 maybe not in exactly the way that she foresaw, but 388 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:54.680 definitely was prescient on this question. And because of Phylishlaffley's 389 00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:58.920 efforts at the grassroots level. The Equal Rights Amendment was 390 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.720 not able to get the necessary thirty eight states to 391 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:07.279 ratify it prior to the seven year deadline. In fact, 392 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:16.240 many states undid their prior ratification. They voted again and said, well, now, 393 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.440 after further consideration, we the state of whatever, have decided 394 00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:27.559 to withdraw our state's support for ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment. Now, 395 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.200 in twenty twenty, Virginia became if you don't count the 396 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:38.720 states that deratify and you ignore the seven year timeframe 397 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.920 that's in the text of the era, Virginia became the 398 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:45.519 thirty eighth state to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 399 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:52.680 twenty twenty. Okay, under a Democrat, you know, state legislature. 400 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.480 When that happened, a bunch of liberals started trying to 401 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.319