Speaker 1: Get ready for it.
Speaker 2: Twenty third day of May twenty twenty five. Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it? Oh? My goodness, man, it is a weird year.
Speaker 2: The month is flying by, allegedly according to that thing
Speaker 2: we call a calendar. Anyway, no matter who you are,
Speaker 2: where you are, when you are, guess what we're live
Speaker 2: on a Friday. It's about just hitting nine minutes after
Speaker 2: eight pm Eastern And yeah, I went to air late,
Speaker 2: but what the hell? It is? What it is? I
Speaker 2: talked to be Pete for a couple of minutes and
Speaker 2: really didn't rush to get the air tonight because I'm
Speaker 2: just in that kind of mood. I guess that's what
Speaker 2: happens when you got an infected tooth in your mouth
Speaker 2: and you feel like the world is pretty much an
Speaker 2: infected tooth around you. So it is what it is. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Happy Friday. How you doing this week? B Pete?
Speaker 1: I'm doing a good based on what we were talking
Speaker 1: about right before live about news feeds and all kind
Speaker 1: of like you, it's just tried to spend a week
Speaker 1: not paying attention to some of the crap going on.
Speaker 1: If I hear about the Epstein files one more time
Speaker 1: from some of them, just gonna punch them in the
Speaker 1: clot ah.
Speaker 2: See, now that means you are definitely part of the
Speaker 2: conservative algorithm, because I only got the Epstein files mentioned
Speaker 2: to me a few times. I'm not part of the
Speaker 2: conservative algorithm. I'm not part of the liberal algorithm. I
Speaker 2: don't know what algorithm I'm part of. But they're not
Speaker 2: feeding me the way that they feed you guys.
Speaker 1: You know. No, it's on when when I go to
Speaker 1: the news section like on YouTube, you know, and it
Speaker 1: brings up certain channels, and then you've got all the
Speaker 1: Once you click on one of those, and you're going
Speaker 1: to pull up every every every person that gives their
Speaker 1: opinions about the Epstein crap, from Whitney Web to you
Speaker 1: name it, and just from one. You know, why haven't
Speaker 1: they released a file? Why haven't they released the current list?
Speaker 1: It's like, people, there is no list. There's nothing that
Speaker 1: they're going to release that says so and so, so
Speaker 1: and so and so and so purchased people through this way.
Speaker 1: But the bad thing is it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: But you know, wait a minute, wait a minute, I
Speaker 2: got to argue with you a little. It does exist.
Speaker 2: It's already been released. I got bad news.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, that's this specific. Everybody
Speaker 1: talks about a client list.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, there is no client list.
Speaker 1: Yes, if that book has been published, it was published
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 2: So it is on you see what I'm saying, here's ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but people assume that there's a client list.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, Well, what do they want a credit
Speaker 2: card list of? But this person used their visa for
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars on the aen see, And I know
Speaker 2: what they.
Speaker 1: Want to expect, because here's the deal. If the FBI
Speaker 1: has information that and they say they're going to videotapes
Speaker 1: and stuff. Now, if they have this information and they're
Speaker 1: gonna play it this way, well, we can't release that
Speaker 1: because of possible pending prosecutions, right, Okay, So that covers
Speaker 1: the majority of the evidence that they've got. Well, we
Speaker 1: may have to prosecute these people. We just can't put
Speaker 1: it out there in a public purview when it's evidence
Speaker 1: until we're ready to go court.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, So that's going to protect them on one end, yeah,
Speaker 3: but hold the other end, it is people.
Speaker 1: Well, I think people have expectations that there's certain things
Speaker 1: the government has that are going to be released, and
Speaker 1: they're not.
Speaker 2: But that's what I wanted to cut to here. Cut
Speaker 2: back to the beginning of what you said, which is
Speaker 2: client list. Okay, what constitutes a client list? Because outside
Speaker 2: of his black book and these lists of people that
Speaker 2: were definitely on the airplane and all this other stuff.
Speaker 2: Even though I know there was some pulsified documents and all,
Speaker 2: that doesn't matter. The point is we know who was there,
Speaker 2: we know who got I mean, you know, pay no
Speaker 2: attention to the fact that I thought it was funny
Speaker 2: that Barack Obama's name came up in the Diddy trial
Speaker 2: this week. That was kind of comical for a second,
Speaker 2: but really realistically, Yeah, didn't you see that. You probably
Speaker 2: didn't see that, did you.
Speaker 1: No? I did. But what I said was, it's not
Speaker 1: surprising that it came up.
Speaker 2: Well, no, because look, that guy met with everybody at
Speaker 2: a certain point, depending on what part of his career
Speaker 2: I met the guy. Anyway, look back to the client list.
Speaker 2: What do they want for a client list outside of
Speaker 2: the black book, the contacts. I mean, let's get down
Speaker 2: and dirty on this. Okay, even if you hire somebody
Speaker 2: off a Craigslist, right, which is still a thing that happens.
Speaker 2: To my understanding, I don't know. I haven't been around
Speaker 2: anybody who's done it in many years, but apparently you
Speaker 2: can still do this. Hire somebody off a craigslist. Hey, look,
Speaker 2: I got this many hundreds of dollars. We'll meet here
Speaker 2: and we'll do things. You know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 2: here's the thing. You're not on a client list when
Speaker 2: you do that. You use that service. And you know,
Speaker 2: if you got half a brain, you don't put it
Speaker 2: on a credit card. But some people put it on
Speaker 2: a credit card. I get it. And you know, why
Speaker 2: not use a what do you call a reloadable visa, right,
Speaker 2: one that you just load with cash and doesn't really
Speaker 2: have your name on it. Just do that and you
Speaker 2: could pay anybody any which way you want. And then
Speaker 2: where does the client list come into this, Like which
Speaker 2: part of the equation do they want? Do they want
Speaker 2: the receipts? Because I'll tell you this, a married guy
Speaker 2: or a guy who doesn't want that shown in public
Speaker 2: for their image or whatever else is not keeping the receipts.
Speaker 2: And they don't have, you know, perfect record keeping. It's
Speaker 2: not like Maxwell was sitting there going, well, I need
Speaker 2: to meticulously keep records so I can file taxes on this.
Speaker 2: So you know what is what is the client list
Speaker 2: they want outside of the black book? Be Pete, can
Speaker 2: you tell me that what they want?
Speaker 1: What they've been people refer to a client list, client list,
Speaker 1: client list? Okay, so what they refer to it for years?
Speaker 1: Yeah to me? If to here's here's the different. A
Speaker 1: client list would be a list of all the clients
Speaker 1: and what they did. Okay. And I think somebody thinks
Speaker 1: that the FBI has compiled that. Yeah, they may, and
Speaker 1: it could be on somebody's notes stuck in a file somewhere, right,
Speaker 1: But even if he thought exists, even if they had
Speaker 1: an amalgamated list of people and possible charges, they're not
Speaker 1: going to release that.
Speaker 2: Well, but even if they do, it's secondhand information. It's
Speaker 2: not like, like I said, you don't have the receipts. Okay,
Speaker 2: I guarantee it's not like, well, gee, he used his
Speaker 2: Bank of America visa card to know that didn't happen.
Speaker 2: So what what kind of list do you want? The
Speaker 2: list that's compiled by the FBI. Okay, So we trust
Speaker 2: the FBI's lists on this stuff, but we don't try.
Speaker 2: Come on, now, where's the closest thing to a client
Speaker 2: list you got is his black book? I mean, that's
Speaker 2: my argument about you already got it, you know, so
Speaker 2: how much closer are you going to get to it? Outside?
Speaker 1: Where's there? Here's the thing people forget about. That student
Speaker 1: do work is in Florida. Okay, he got a sweetheart deal, right?
Speaker 1: It was later on in New York when the some
Speaker 1: of the victims complained that they were not notified by
Speaker 1: the court, therefore the proceedings were invalidated. That's what led
Speaker 1: to his charges in New York. So they had already
Speaker 1: done the big dog. I can't think it was that
Speaker 1: the Miami Examiner where the big paper is down there.
Speaker 2: I think it's a Miami Bulldog.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Is that the bulldog down there that did it?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. But one of the big papers down
Speaker 1: there did a series on it while he was while
Speaker 1: he was under investigation. So anyway, they ran like a
Speaker 1: full part series about what happened in Florida, how he
Speaker 1: got a sweetheart deal, what the conditions were. It may
Speaker 1: have been when the guy that Trump appointed to one
Speaker 1: position was the judge down there that allowed us to
Speaker 1: go on, and he stepped down from the nomination for whatever.
Speaker 1: There was something a DJ or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know, we had he had a Costa in
Speaker 2: his cabinet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, Okay, when he stepped down, and
Speaker 1: that may have been when the paper ran that series
Speaker 1: as to what happened, trying to explain, you know, a
Speaker 1: Costa's connection to it. Anyway they have from Freedom Information Act,
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff came out. Okay, so you've
Speaker 1: got that information, You've got Maxwell's trial that they went through. Now,
Speaker 1: the thing that gets me is they tried her, but
Speaker 1: there was no attempt to make any case against any
Speaker 1: of the customers or any of the people that supposedly
Speaker 1: I mean, they got her for human trafficking, okay, or
Speaker 1: whatever charges were. I don't know if it was explotation
Speaker 1: of minors or what. But the charges that they got
Speaker 1: her on, there had to be somebody on the other
Speaker 1: end of the transaction passing off a person or an
Speaker 1: underaged girl or whatever. That's the part that I'm amazed
Speaker 1: nothing has happened. If you can't it's like busting it's
Speaker 1: like busting hookers and not going after their clients. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why haven't we seen any charges against anybody. You can't
Speaker 1: tell me.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: We've have these these files now for years, and nobody
Speaker 1: has gone through and put together one single prosecution case
Speaker 1: against an individual that was on the other end of
Speaker 1: these transactions. So if that hasn't happened, that's where the
Speaker 1: FBI is going to play this craft. You can't release this,
Speaker 1: you know, because there's pending litigation here that we may
Speaker 1: press charges against these individuals. We all well know who
Speaker 1: they are before we decide to press charges, So that
Speaker 1: eliminates ninety percent of the craft that the public thinks
Speaker 1: that they're going to be able to see from this
Speaker 1: whole deal.
Speaker 2: Well, it's crazy. And here's the thing, because there's people
Speaker 2: on that list that are protected because of whatever deals
Speaker 2: they made or you know, like in the case of
Speaker 2: Alan Dershowitz, he was looking to sue everybody. Don't don't
Speaker 2: involve me in it, even though my name's on lists
Speaker 2: and I was in proximity. Don't accuse me of being
Speaker 2: involved with the sex stuff. Right, there's a whole complex mess.
Speaker 2: And then there's also the political protections. You don't want
Speaker 2: to show everybody's point of context because how are you
Speaker 2: going to prosecute it, you know, going, oh, look look
Speaker 2: at all the Democrats on there. Yeah, look at all
Speaker 2: the Republicans on there. Uh oh, well, look at all
Speaker 2: the guys who were with DeSantis on there. Look at
Speaker 2: all the guys who weren't with the Santis, look at
Speaker 2: the guys who ended up in the work cabinet. And
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is it goes all over the place
Speaker 2: so bad that I don't think anybody would want to
Speaker 2: produce a list like that anyway.
Speaker 1: I know, because it's like cracks in a room shield.
Speaker 1: Once they start, you don't know which direction they're going
Speaker 1: to go and how far they're going to go exactly,
Speaker 1: so you know, they don't want to start that initial impact.
Speaker 1: Another thing to take into consideration too. You just had
Speaker 1: Virginia Giffreed uh supposedly die of suicide Australias.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: Now, she's got a whole boatload of issues with her
Speaker 1: marriage and and and things with her husband that were
Speaker 1: going on at the time that you know, whatever happened
Speaker 1: to her could be totally unrelated to the Epstein thing
Speaker 1: that you just had Cash to tell and Dan Bngino
Speaker 1: both say here within the past week that yeah, Epstein
Speaker 1: hung himself. Did the collective laughter that went up from
Speaker 1: Dan Bongino. Suddenly you know he was going to get
Speaker 1: to the bottom of stuff and blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, Yeah, he hung himself. M'm men,
Speaker 1: look at here completely does a onet eighty. That's it.
Speaker 1: I mean that in his self right, says the cover
Speaker 1: ups and places. Folks, you aren't going to learn crap
Speaker 1: about Epstein or anybody who was collected to nobody.
Speaker 2: Well, see, but there's the trouble. Right, Bonino, as a
Speaker 2: podcaster was going after this, was involved in the whole
Speaker 2: I want to be on there. He wasn't doing a
Speaker 2: good job of it, Okay, not.
Speaker 1: Just a podcast for her on a radio show.
Speaker 2: Well, right, that's the thing he built up from that
Speaker 2: he ended up getting syndicated, like the thing that I
Speaker 2: almost did several times. Right, he succeeded at it. Good
Speaker 2: and good on him. But the thing is he had
Speaker 2: enough of a presence out there that first of all,
Speaker 2: Trump paid attention to him. But secondly, he was out
Speaker 2: there making a lot of statements about, look, we need
Speaker 2: to dig into the dirt here and get on this
Speaker 2: and get underneath it. And get these you know, the
Speaker 2: banded people out of positions of power and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: That's the way he was talking. So these people that
Speaker 2: were like fans of his thought, oh, look we have
Speaker 2: a guy who's going to go in there and actually
Speaker 2: do something. But what is he doing. He's going to
Speaker 2: immediately parrot. He's being used specifically to parrot the party line. Okay.
Speaker 2: I don't know how else you're supposed to see that,
Speaker 2: but that's the way it is. And cash Pttel I
Speaker 2: don't know what to say about that guy, all right,
Speaker 2: I really don't. Is a guy who I'm not sure
Speaker 2: why he's in charge of the FBI exactly because I
Speaker 2: don't see how his skill set applies to it. But
Speaker 2: there he is.
Speaker 1: He was appointed. His experience was he was an investigator
Speaker 1: once they started going after tear it apart to the
Speaker 1: Russian collision scheme with Muller. Okay, he came in, he
Speaker 1: was appointed. He I forget who he was an investigator for.
Speaker 1: Was it? I can't think his name? Some senator one
Speaker 1: of them. Anyway, he's the one in there that started
Speaker 1: getting in and found out. He dug down and found
Speaker 1: out exactly who paid for the steel bossier, and the
Speaker 1: whole showed that it was all you know, Hillary's political
Speaker 1: campaign paid for it through rulers and then another sub
Speaker 1: ruler and some website bas money was folded over three
Speaker 1: times before it hit the final pocket was put it
Speaker 1: that way, and then he found out it was all bunk.
Speaker 1: There was nothing to back up any of it. That's
Speaker 1: what got him on the road to be the head
Speaker 1: of the FBI. It says the investigations that he did
Speaker 1: and the facts that he would be able to pull
Speaker 1: out even with I mean, because the Democrats were fighting
Speaker 1: a tooth and nail, they were trying to hide everything
Speaker 1: that they could possibly hide well at the time.
Speaker 2: And what Muller came out with is always constantly misrepresented anyway,
Speaker 2: because if you read the report, which I have, if
Speaker 2: you actually read it, what does it say. It says
Speaker 2: that there was efforts by the Russians to affect the election,
Speaker 2: but they couldn't, you know, conclusively prove that Trump and
Speaker 2: his people were knowing participants. Were they participants? Yes, they
Speaker 2: approached them, they approached them, they made moves toward them,
Speaker 2: all that stuff. This is what Muller found. He said, look,
Speaker 2: you can't prosecute it because we can't prove that they
Speaker 2: knew anything about that, but were part of this. Yeah
Speaker 2: they were. And that's that weird area where it really
Speaker 2: gets left. It's not like nothing in there or not
Speaker 2: the dossier. Let's not go to the dossier because I
Speaker 2: don't want to get into that again. But I mean
Speaker 2: the charges, the idea that Russians are attempting to affect elections.
Speaker 2: It would almost be like malpractice on the intelligence agency's
Speaker 2: part in Russia. If they didn't attempt to influence the election. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's just craziness, but anyway, but hell right, he was
Speaker 2: involved in that. But I still don't get the connection
Speaker 2: as to how it is he would have an idea
Speaker 2: about how to run the FBI because every time he
Speaker 2: gets pressed on trying to go find something or get something,
Speaker 2: he definitely needs the career guys to help guide him.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know where to get stuff. He's been denied documentation.
Speaker 2: We saw that, by the way, that was a very
Speaker 2: weird situation this week with the with the you know,
Speaker 2: the declassification hearings. Did you catch any of that, by
Speaker 2: the way, the JFK stuff this week.
Speaker 1: No, I hit that I've watched the clip. What was it? Oh,
Speaker 1: one of one of the doctors got up there and
Speaker 1: described the wounds and all. But there were a couple
Speaker 1: of other clips that I looked at that I didn't watch.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the funny thing about the doctor, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the doctor that testified. He started going into his theories
Speaker 2: instead of describing what he saw because nobody knows how
Speaker 2: to do the questioning properly, as Larry and I were
Speaker 2: talking about. But here's a funny thing that somebody pointed
Speaker 2: out to me on on X, which is that that
Speaker 2: doctor did give testimony to the Warren Commission and he
Speaker 2: said he didn't, which you know, it's like, okay, you
Speaker 2: can't even remember if you testified to the Warren Commission
Speaker 2: or offered.
Speaker 1: Testified that it was not a contacted by the Warren Commission.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not true because apparently he's in the volumes.
Speaker 2: I've got to like go back over this and make
Speaker 2: sure it's the same guy and everything else. But from
Speaker 2: what I understand, somebody even gave me a page number
Speaker 2: and a volume and everything like he's there, and I'm like, gee,
Speaker 2: I don't remember this guy's name, but you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of names in the Warren Commission volumes that
Speaker 2: go by you after a while. I mean, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff after a while, unless you've been reading
Speaker 2: it research.
Speaker 1: His diagram kind of surprised me when you showed the
Speaker 1: first shot was from the train vessel right all the
Speaker 1: way to the fair end for the ELM and I thought,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I agree with that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So do me a favor and explain to me
Speaker 2: how a basically a doctor in training in nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: three is going to understand ballistics, trajectory and all these
Speaker 2: other things to be He's now doing the thing that
Speaker 2: a lot of witnesses do, which is, instead of just
Speaker 2: telling you specifically the stuff they saw, they know for certain,
Speaker 2: what do they do now on to the sol of
Speaker 2: the case portion of their presentation? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because the funny thing was he made a comment
Speaker 1: about the shot to Kennedy's temple. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: he had a shot at the temple and shot at
Speaker 1: the back of the head. And he shows the two
Speaker 1: bullets shooting Kennedy from the six field window, and he
Speaker 1: shows one of them is supposedly hit Kennedy and one
Speaker 1: of them hit Connolly. There is no magic bullet, so
Speaker 1: where did the temple shot come from? He never showed that,
Speaker 1: never showed three shots on his diagram. And I'm going, okay, well,
Speaker 1: so when did he get hit in the temple and
Speaker 1: that was the last shot?
Speaker 2: Did he did?
Speaker 1: He?
Speaker 2: Even? I forget this part? Did he account for what
Speaker 2: hit James? Take?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: So well he did, he did, and he said it
Speaker 1: was four shots. He said that one was the one
Speaker 1: that missed, hit the curb and porbs going towards the
Speaker 1: train trestle. Okay, but he showed the two bullets going
Speaker 1: one to Kennedy and one to Connolly and said that
Speaker 1: the magic bullet didn't happen.
Speaker 2: So three shots from Oswald rifle and one from unknown
Speaker 2: the railroad railroad trestle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily disagree with him, but I would like to, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, like they used to say in
Speaker 2: math class, I want to see his work. Where the
Speaker 2: hell are you getting these ideas? I want to know?
Speaker 1: But I want to He actually wrenched the shot to
Speaker 1: the temple. He shot the buy of the head shot at
Speaker 1: the temple. I thought, okay, did he go through his
Speaker 1: head and out his temple, because you're on to show
Speaker 1: them two shots from the window and one from the
Speaker 1: royal pass. Where is the other shot?
Speaker 2: Well, shot to the temple would indicate based on that language,
Speaker 2: that he's talking about an entrance, right, But yeah, is
Speaker 2: it actually an entrance or are we talking about See
Speaker 2: here's the thing. If you've got a wound, that doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily mean that wound originated from outside of the body
Speaker 2: and a bullet struck and there's your wound. It could
Speaker 2: be the bullet traveling through the body. Now you have
Speaker 2: a wound as an exit exit wound. Duh, Okay, but
Speaker 2: that's so said.
Speaker 1: Though, if it hit here, if it exited out his temple,
Speaker 1: that means it went in the back of the head.
Speaker 1: So one shot went in the back of the head
Speaker 1: and went out his left temple because his head was
Speaker 1: slightly turned to the left.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, just.
Speaker 1: Say that happened. Okay, if that happened, how do you
Speaker 1: explain everything bowing out the back of his head and
Speaker 1: his head jerking backwards its equal in opposite reaction. Bullshit,
Speaker 1: don't happen. I mean, you look at the zapruter film,
Speaker 1: he's going forward and then boomed, he's going backwards. A
Speaker 1: shot that would not have thrown him back that much.
Speaker 1: If it hits him in the back of the head
Speaker 1: and went out his temple, that means the pressure has
Speaker 1: gone out of his head. There's no he's not just
Speaker 1: going to whip.
Speaker 2: Last bat right, and a high resolution look at the
Speaker 2: at the Zappruter film will show you that he's leaning forward, struggling.
Speaker 2: Jackie leans her face toward him and almost looks like
Speaker 2: she says, you know what's going on or you are right,
Speaker 2: because she doesn't know what's happening right, And as she does,
Speaker 2: she is splashed and you see the reaction on her face.
Speaker 2: I will never forget the first time I saw this,
Speaker 2: and you don't usually see it in most of the
Speaker 2: little you know clips you see on the internet or
Speaker 2: you look at it on YouTube, but you can see
Speaker 2: her literally recoil and close her eyes reflexively to protect
Speaker 2: herself from the splash of matter hitting her. All right now,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's coming from you know, anywhere
Speaker 2: except his head, and that could have come from a
Speaker 2: frontal shot or rear shot. It's more likely that she
Speaker 2: got hit, you know, splashed hard with something from the
Speaker 2: rear based on the positioning of her face, but she's
Speaker 2: leaning her face toward him as he struck.
Speaker 1: So I've I went to Robin on HER's website back
Speaker 1: when Education Film and all was going and the film
Speaker 1: was going. He's got some excellent sections of disapproval film
Speaker 1: that had been enhanced and the the jerking has taken
Speaker 1: out of them, stabilized.
Speaker 2: Okay, and you can.
Speaker 1: Follow the shots. And I don't you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: a doctor. I was in the army. I saw what
Speaker 1: happened to people to that shot. So you look at
Speaker 1: that film and you look at just the head shot,
Speaker 1: I don't see how anybody when the side of his
Speaker 1: temple peers and his head goes back and you see
Speaker 1: the cloud of blood and brains and everything going to
Speaker 1: the back, how can you say, I could very well
Speaker 1: see that shot going through his temple and blowing out
Speaker 1: the back of his head, which is basically what you
Speaker 1: see in that movie. Stuff is flying out behind him,
Speaker 1: parts of his head are landing on the trunk. How
Speaker 1: can that be from a shot from behind? It just
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: You're you're you're exactly right. And I will never understand
Speaker 2: how that all makes sense that that's out from the front.
Speaker 2: You know, feel he got one from you got one
Speaker 2: from the front. That's a guarantee. In my mind, I got.
Speaker 1: Two from the farm. The one in his throat, okay,
Speaker 1: when he's coming out from behind the sign, when he's
Speaker 1: grabbing his throat, that was a shot from the front.
Speaker 1: And the one that went through the front of his
Speaker 1: head and out the back was from the front. Is
Speaker 1: that one shot from behind that hid him in his back?
Speaker 1: And they said they pulled the depth that he could
Speaker 1: feel the bottom of it with his finger, right, I
Speaker 1: don't want how did that bit it go?
Speaker 2: No, look, I don't disagree with you, but it is
Speaker 2: possible that that could have been, you know, an exit
Speaker 2: through the throat. I do believe it's possible.
Speaker 1: But how did how did he get into his throat
Speaker 1: and go out the front of his throat? Where did
Speaker 1: him in the head?
Speaker 2: In the back? Now it would have been the back
Speaker 2: of the neck, the back, No, it would have been
Speaker 2: a strike in the back and depending on how he
Speaker 2: was bent at the time he was struck. Because here's
Speaker 2: the thing, he's behind the sign. In my mind, when
Speaker 2: he's hit, So it's difficult to see because that's when
Speaker 2: the reaction begins, almost immediately after he emerges from behind
Speaker 2: the sign in the suppruter film, and trying to sort
Speaker 2: it out from you know what we have of Nick's
Speaker 2: or much more is really difficult, but trying to just
Speaker 2: use the subbruter film. He starts to react almost immediately
Speaker 2: as he emerges, like within a couple of frames. And
Speaker 2: by the way, in the chat room, I posted, h
Speaker 2: what do you call it? Costello's restored frames of the.
Speaker 1: Copy that Robin had. The ones I looked at were Costellos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not bad. It's it's good. It's good working
Speaker 2: digital version of it. But anyways, at least thing, yeah, right, heard.
Speaker 1: Me out all this? My my Solario is this. He's
Speaker 1: at the upper end of the end, just the law.
Speaker 1: They've just made the turn at the school book depository.
Speaker 1: It is entirely possible that the first shots went off
Speaker 1: at the same time, and that's why people heard one
Speaker 1: shot because they heard one. The general description is one, two, three, Okay,
Speaker 1: then the two and the three were closer together than
Speaker 1: the one was to the two. First shot hits him
Speaker 1: from the railroad pass or somewhere in that area in
Speaker 1: the flat. At the same time, someone else fired behind
Speaker 1: him and hit him in the back. When as they
Speaker 1: go further down, you have the next shot that hit Connolly,
Speaker 1: Then you have the shot that hit JP in the
Speaker 1: head from the front from a shot. Then you have
Speaker 1: the fifth shot, the one that shit take. Now, could
Speaker 1: that have been they couldn't do the woe that hit
Speaker 1: commonly because they had that pullet in him? Okay, right,
Speaker 1: they didn't have a bullet from Kennedy's back, but they
Speaker 1: felt the bottom of a wound. Could that have been
Speaker 1: the pristine bullet? They just hit him in the muscle
Speaker 1: in the back and didn't deform.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. Didn't know that beam without okay,
Speaker 2: but without actually sticking a flexible probe through there, you
Speaker 2: don't know that that couldn't have changed trajectory when it
Speaker 2: went into the body, and therefore, sticking your finger in
Speaker 2: there not a fully effective methodology for tracking that wound.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying so that it didn't show any damage
Speaker 1: to his lungs and it didn't show any damage to
Speaker 1: his ribcage. You know, Yeah, I believe it's possible that
Speaker 1: a carcanoe bullet with a lousy old load could have
Speaker 1: penetrated his back and stopped. Why didn't show up on
Speaker 1: a stretcher. I don't know. Did they do chest compressions
Speaker 1: they did, it could have forced it right out of
Speaker 1: his back. But regardless of that, I think you definitely
Speaker 1: have proof of shots from two directions just looking at
Speaker 1: Kennedy's body.
Speaker 2: Well, see, I think so too, And I think it
Speaker 2: is likely that you have a six shot scenario as
Speaker 2: opposed to a three, four or five. And why because
Speaker 2: I had personally more than one piece of testimony from
Speaker 2: witnesses that said they saw, you know, something strike the
Speaker 2: street during this whole thing too. Okay, so you've got
Speaker 2: one that hit the street and you know, thankfully didn't
Speaker 2: strike anybody else. You got one that struck the curb
Speaker 2: and hit tag. Whether it was a full bullet or
Speaker 2: part of a bullet is unknown. Okay, who had.
Speaker 1: The theory that one hit the overhanging arm of the
Speaker 1: traffic signal?
Speaker 2: Oh I forget who did that?
Speaker 1: Because is that the one? Could that be the one
Speaker 1: that hit ricocheted and got went down and struck the
Speaker 1: concrete and got tag. Well, that would have had been
Speaker 1: one of the first shots.
Speaker 2: It would have been a weird one, would It would
Speaker 2: have been one of the first shots, And it would
Speaker 2: have been a very strange one because they they claimed
Speaker 2: more than one of them said sparks, and one of
Speaker 2: them was a cop who.
Speaker 1: I've scored that too to say he saw sparks from the.
Speaker 2: Pavement, right, and it stabs Ellis is the name that
Speaker 2: sticks out to me.
Speaker 1: But tag Ever put the shot that hit him in
Speaker 1: the timeline of the shots. Well, he Ever said that
Speaker 1: it was after the first sound, or after the second sound,
Speaker 1: or after the final sound.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the problem with Tag, Right, you have the
Speaker 2: pre LBJ did It book James Tag and then you
Speaker 2: have the LBJ did It book James Tate. There are
Speaker 2: two different testimonies going on there. Okay. Once he kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, really embraced his celebrity. I mean he had
Speaker 2: an eBay story of the jfkse Fascination eBay store and
Speaker 2: all that, and he was, you know sign you know,
Speaker 2: sending sign pictures to everybody and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: He's got that what is it called eyewitness to his No,
Speaker 2: not eyewitness to history. That's oh man, what is James
Speaker 2: Tagg's books anyway, there's there's two different books. One of
Speaker 2: them he shows for the FBI was harassing him and
Speaker 2: trying to change his testimony and all that stuff. That's
Speaker 2: his original piece of work before he got influenced and
Speaker 2: then started getting into solving the crime. Right. See again,
Speaker 2: this is another weird state where you got look if
Speaker 2: you can get at what the witness actually saw and
Speaker 2: experienced and not have it contaminated by the theories, that's
Speaker 2: how you got to assemble this stuff. But James tag
Speaker 2: once he got into the I know from insiders LBJ
Speaker 2: did it. Once he got into that mindset, it was
Speaker 2: all over everything else, even his original testimonies, original statements
Speaker 2: about stuff. Uh you know who talked. Everything changed after that,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And I mean that's
Speaker 2: literally how I ended up getting into arguments with him
Speaker 2: personally on the phone.
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, I heard in this one clip,
Speaker 1: you know, people were saying, hey, maybe in my role
Speaker 1: it was you you're talking. The other night, I made
Speaker 1: a comment, well that we need to have an as investigations,
Speaker 1: they need to reopen it send to people any value.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it could be because there are a
Speaker 2: bunch of avenues that I don't really want to describe here,
Speaker 2: but there are a bunch of avenues that were never
Speaker 2: touched and they haven't been contaminated. And unless everything's been
Speaker 2: destroyed or removed, you know, like we saw with with
Speaker 2: the d i A and their destruction stuff and all that,
Speaker 2: Unless all that stuff has been destroyed, there could still
Speaker 2: be some valuable information about what was originally investigated, what
Speaker 2: was originally collected that's still sitting in government hands. Believe
Speaker 2: it or not, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Anyway we're getting out to Epstein. I think we're at
Speaker 1: a point, yeah, where relying on government agencies to tell
Speaker 1: us what actually went to happen. I'll hold it up.
Speaker 1: It's too late for that. We let it get by.
Speaker 1: It should have been done when it hit the fail
Speaker 1: Well it's still hung themself. They should have immediately has
Speaker 1: been an investigation into what was going on. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's like I said, it's crocks and a
Speaker 1: womb shield. You don't know how far they're going to go,
Speaker 1: and you don't know how many you know, or what
Speaker 1: direction they're going to go in.
Speaker 2: See, but that's the thing. It took like five years
Speaker 2: for people to get the word out about the Warrant
Speaker 2: Commission is obviously full crap, right, So you know, between
Speaker 2: Lane and the radio shows and the media attention, and
Speaker 2: then you know, nineteen sixty eight CBS reinvestigates and all
Speaker 2: that other stuff like it took till sixty eight when
Speaker 2: people went, okay, you know what, this is a problem.
Speaker 2: I mean. And then of course you have Garrison and
Speaker 2: all that, and people went, okay, there's something wrong here.
Speaker 2: But by the time they did all that, now, who
Speaker 2: was going to be interested in reinvestigation, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? And that's only five years later. So when
Speaker 2: did Epstein hang himself? Now we're talking, we're only talking
Speaker 2: not that long ago, right, I mean, what was it,
Speaker 2: twenty two young himself? Yeah, let me take a look.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, yeah, go ahead. But the thing is,
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, the first thing was the cameras
Speaker 2: didn't work, and then of course Michael Boden comes out
Speaker 2: that that's the really bad red flag. As soon as
Speaker 2: I see that, when they're twenty twenty nineteen, Okay, it
Speaker 2: was a little further away, I thought, okay, six years ago. Wow,
Speaker 2: so we've hit that threshold. Five year threshold I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: But as soon as you see Michael Bobdom show up
Speaker 2: to be putting any kind of stamp on anything, the
Speaker 2: game is over. Because Bottom was out there making strange statements.
Speaker 2: To be honest with the cirri Wect was making contradictory
Speaker 2: statements about what the evidence should have shown for his hanging.
Speaker 2: You know, was it physically even possible for him to
Speaker 2: utilize the stuff they say that was in there everything else? When, meanwhile,
Speaker 2: did anybody properly collect the stuff off the scene. You know,
Speaker 2: it's funny. I don't recall ever seeing that they're I mean,
Speaker 2: there had to have been evidence collected, but no, that.
Speaker 1: Was one of the that was one of the complaints
Speaker 1: that I think the medical examiner had is that.
Speaker 2: They didn't with Yeah, they didn't secure everything right away,
Speaker 2: which is they should have taken everything that was in there,
Speaker 2: bagged it up and labeled it and brought it in
Speaker 2: so that you could put, you know, reassemble the scenario. Right.
Speaker 2: If he hung himself with a sheet, then okay, let's
Speaker 2: see the sheet. You know, if it was the bedpost.
Speaker 1: Is those barraculous paper sheets that they'd give them to
Speaker 1: keep them from beings to hand themselves. Betther they wouldn't
Speaker 1: do enough testing on their paper sheets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess not, because look, if you get one
Speaker 2: of those foil blankets. Now, some of those things rip
Speaker 2: if you blow on them, you know. But some of
Speaker 2: those things depends which you know, which one they had,
Speaker 2: So I'd have to see which one it was. And
Speaker 2: either way, even if you have an idea about the
Speaker 2: tolerance or the the strength of the implements utilized or
Speaker 2: whatever else, I don't care about those things because I
Speaker 2: want to see the exact item that did it right,
Speaker 2: because there could be an inconsistency with it. It could
Speaker 2: have been, you know, dipped in something you could have,
Speaker 2: you know, for all I know, you know he took
Speaker 2: his paper sheet and dipped it in a wax or
Speaker 2: made a plaster of Paris with it to strengthen the loop.
Speaker 2: I don't know, right unless I actually have the item
Speaker 2: in my hands, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So if I wanted to hold myself from a bunk
Speaker 1: bed in a jail cell, I would think I would
Speaker 1: take off my orange jump suit. It is tougher than
Speaker 1: the paper sheets.
Speaker 2: Seat maybe, But then again, here's the other issue, how
Speaker 2: much do you weigh? How much did Epstein weigh? See,
Speaker 2: trying to hang one hundred and fifty pound man is
Speaker 2: a little different than hanging a two hundred and something
Speaker 2: pound man.
Speaker 1: Well, it's difficult to hang any man that stands over
Speaker 1: five foot six inches high off a bunk bed.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true too, So what about those measurements? And oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, was that bunk bed, you know, in
Speaker 2: a configuration that gave it that height or did they
Speaker 2: add to it? See again, I would want the exact
Speaker 2: items collected to show me. I mean, I've seen bunk
Speaker 2: beds that bend just based on somebody climbing up them,
Speaker 2: you know, because they're made so badly. I don't know
Speaker 2: what these things are made of, or if they're you know,
Speaker 2: the old like military cots, you know what I mean
Speaker 2: that you could stack on top of one. I don't
Speaker 2: know which kind of thing they had there. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've all seen the pictures, but unless you actually know
Speaker 2: the item and have the item, you don't know. So
Speaker 2: that whole place should have been you know, everything should
Speaker 2: have been collected from that joint. Okay, just knowing that
Speaker 2: you were going to have this controversy. But probably what
Speaker 2: they did is they just cleaned it up, bagged a
Speaker 2: few things, and then sent the next new prisoners in there.
Speaker 1: Right, and it was everything was was wash it down.
Speaker 1: It a squeegee, all right, that's true?
Speaker 2: Yeah right? And oh, by the way, none of the
Speaker 2: cameras worked. Oh well, you know what the hell.
Speaker 1: That worked during that specific time. They worked all the
Speaker 1: other times, right, but they didn't work at that time.
Speaker 1: What are the odds?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's just some bad luck there, you know,
Speaker 2: for a guy who had good luck his whole life.
Speaker 2: I got to tell you Epstein had bad luck when
Speaker 2: it came to the cam quarders. Hey, maybe that's an
Speaker 2: issue there. And oh, by the way, what did happen
Speaker 2: to all the video that was supposedly seized?
Speaker 1: Because all through it now, Yeah, I can honestly believe
Speaker 1: that while the Biden was in office with his DJ
Speaker 1: they weren't looked at. They were looked at to see
Speaker 1: who they could get dirt on, and then they were
Speaker 1: put away. I'm sure some of them have been done
Speaker 1: away with that. Maybe they've had those films, right, you know,
Speaker 1: they're going through them now. Nobody's gone through them before. Now,
Speaker 1: it was the entire Justice Department politicized enough that no
Speaker 1: one looked into it Justice see who they might be
Speaker 1: able to bring charges against, because once they got slain
Speaker 1: Maxwell in jail, everything went away and he didn't know, right,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, well she's been you know, we
Speaker 1: got re Prouff tough her, so we're okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's completely unbelievable. Because you got enough
Speaker 2: employees at a Walmart. You can't get them to be
Speaker 2: unified enough to pay attention to something or not pay
Speaker 2: attention to something.
Speaker 1: Well, you can't tell me that some investigator didn't sit
Speaker 1: down and start writing down a dirt file. Who got
Speaker 1: video on you know that this guy, this guy, this guy,
Speaker 1: and this guy. You know I want to need information.
Speaker 1: You won't put him the.
Speaker 2: Work exactly, an FBI guy with with access to that.
Speaker 2: Let me let me put you this way. Let's just
Speaker 2: say a guy wants to go after and get political
Speaker 2: information or how about this. If I was in there
Speaker 2: and just had access to that and had some time
Speaker 2: on my hands, I might say to myself, you know,
Speaker 2: if I get enough of this material together, I got
Speaker 2: a book.
Speaker 1: Exactly, I'm look at it this way no, even go
Speaker 1: back to Hoover, Hoover's fb. Hoover ran his FBI as
Speaker 1: a way to get dirt on people, and that's how
Speaker 1: he stayed the head of the FBI for so long.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: You know, his good buddy Biden or LBJ sat there
Speaker 1: and said, I'm gonna keep you on for life. Because
Speaker 1: they were buddies. They were helping each other out. You
Speaker 1: can't tell me what that That kind of attitude within
Speaker 1: the FBI didn't carry over through the years. And you know,
Speaker 1: somebody and line they got their hands on that footage,
Speaker 1: started going through it and saying, okay, this one, we
Speaker 1: need to go put it into secret vault because we
Speaker 1: didn't need that one. In a little while, we about
Speaker 1: to hold some data where somebody just tell me the
Speaker 1: FBI hasn't created the van dirt file on everybody that
Speaker 1: they got on.
Speaker 2: Video, just exactly just for the purposes of sorting and separating.
Speaker 2: Somebody had to have gone through it already. And the
Speaker 2: other thing to consider here, Oh, by the way, three
Speaker 2: one nine five two seven five zero one six. That's
Speaker 2: the number to call it if you want to join us.
Speaker 2: Three one nine five two seven five zero one six
Speaker 2: you got to be realistic about this stuff. No matter
Speaker 2: how politicized the FBI was. Here's the other thing guaranteed
Speaker 2: that you know, Oh it was just all by. You
Speaker 2: can't tell me that the entirety of the people that
Speaker 2: were in the FBI were all on Biden's side. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's awesome. Plenty of them had to be on the
Speaker 2: opposition side. Some of them still have their jobs. Some
Speaker 2: of them were appointed by Trump or Rump people before that. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So you know, come on, it's not only that.
Speaker 1: You know, they hit his place in New York and
Speaker 1: they were worried about the island, but you don't hear
Speaker 1: anything about him raiding his place out and what was
Speaker 1: at Arizona in New Mexico. You don't hear about him
Speaker 1: getting in this place in Florida, you know, where there
Speaker 1: were things that he was accused of that went on
Speaker 1: there as well. Right in those places, I haven't heard
Speaker 1: one people where they went through those properties, well, not one.
Speaker 2: The grand jury in two thousand and six is all Florida, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a that's a state case. So that's
Speaker 2: what a Costa was involved in. So anyway, look, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you another funny thing that came up this week
Speaker 2: where people are not being realistic Joe Biden and his
Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis. Okay, first of all, if you can't figure
Speaker 2: out that, you know, the White House doctors don't share
Speaker 2: every piece so medical you know, we don't get the
Speaker 2: whole ins and outs on everything that suspect on the
Speaker 2: President or anybody else. Okay, that's just not going to happen,
Speaker 2: and we don't have a position being clear about things.
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, ever since the Kennedy years, Okay,
Speaker 2: the White House physician even all the way up to
Speaker 2: the HSCA, the military doctors who did the autopsy. Right again,
Speaker 2: I'm holding up their quotes for those of you playing
Speaker 2: at home. But the thing is, those guys who did
Speaker 2: the autopsy didn't even want to admit on the record
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine or eight whatever gear it was
Speaker 2: that they actually sat down Hume's Boswell. I think they
Speaker 2: sat down Humes in Boswell only, but they might add Fink.
Speaker 2: At one point either way, the medical panel had a
Speaker 2: non public meeting with them. They didn't want to talk
Speaker 2: about Addison's disease even Okay, they didn't want to discuss
Speaker 2: the adrenal glands. They didn't want to discuss a bunch
Speaker 2: of different things. Actually, but that jumped right out at
Speaker 2: me was like, the guy's dead. It no longer matters
Speaker 2: if he had Addison's disease and what we're still so look,
Speaker 2: let's be honest. The fact that nobody said anything before
Speaker 2: about Biden having cancer is a either a product of
Speaker 2: the cancer moved fast or be a product of No,
Speaker 2: the White House physician is not going to reveal everything
Speaker 2: to the world.
Speaker 1: Well, Joe Biden let it slip in the head cancer.
Speaker 1: I forget that talking was given back about three years ago.
Speaker 1: Really made a comment, you know, because of all the
Speaker 1: oil and everything that was being produced their where it
Speaker 1: grew up in Pennsylvania, and you know, having a white
Speaker 1: to pay off the windshields and every morning for you
Speaker 1: into work, and you know, that's why we and he
Speaker 1: made a comment, you know, we were are subject to
Speaker 1: that's why. Well, I forget exactly how he said it,
Speaker 1: but he said, you know, we have cancer. He let
Speaker 1: it slip all the in and he's got well you
Speaker 1: know about it.
Speaker 2: Or maybe that was something else nobody knew about. See,
Speaker 2: look the way he stutters and mutters over everything. It's
Speaker 2: possible it could have gone in a lot of different
Speaker 2: directions there. All I'm trying to say is it should
Speaker 2: be no shock to anybody that nobody reveals this stuff
Speaker 2: till later. I don't know if you remember this guy Reagan,
Speaker 2: but remember he had like, you know, some kind of
Speaker 2: cancerous thing on his nose. And then also he ended
Speaker 2: up with something on his prostate, and it was like, ah,
Speaker 2: no big deal, We just you know, sliced off something
Speaker 2: off his nose and he had a poll up or something,
Speaker 2: you know, in his prostate. And meanwhile, nobody wanted to
Speaker 2: talk about the fact that the guy was already slipping.
Speaker 2: Nobody brought that out in public back then because for
Speaker 2: the good of the country, right, we can't have the
Speaker 2: president look like he's slipping. They'll start questioning everything. So,
Speaker 2: you know, and he had all kinds of stuff going on.
Speaker 2: Who knows what the truth about Ronald Reagan's second term
Speaker 2: was when it came to his health. And oh, by
Speaker 2: the way, if you think Trump is in perfectly good shape,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. Okay, I'm sure
Speaker 2: he's not in the best shape at you know, what
Speaker 2: is he eighty. Now he's eighty, isn't he? How old?
Speaker 1: Is close to it? He's on up there. But you know,
Speaker 1: Trump is one of those people that are noised so many.
Speaker 1: He probably lived to be one hundred.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But that doesn't mean he's perfectly completely healthy.
Speaker 2: He might live forever. But you know, the Queen of
Speaker 2: England was what was she one hundred years old? Almost right?
Speaker 2: But I guarantee you she was not getting ready to
Speaker 2: jump up and do jumping jacks. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I mean she was not imperfectly in perfect health. I mean,
Speaker 2: just at that age, you're not in perfect health. Okay, eight,
Speaker 2: he's seventy eight. Okay, it was all right, fair enough,
Speaker 2: But at seventy eight even you know you're not in
Speaker 2: perfect health. It's it's almost unless you're somebody who you know,
Speaker 2: absolutely ate everything, right. And this guy, you know what
Speaker 2: he eats. You see what he eats. He's drinking die coke,
Speaker 2: which is bad enough, and I mean that that'll destroy
Speaker 2: you alone, all right. So looks and I'm not even
Speaker 2: picking on him. I'm just saying, if you think you're
Speaker 2: getting told the truth about the condition of the executive
Speaker 2: in the office, you're out of your mind.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I think it was. I
Speaker 1: think it was planned to just go ahead and run
Speaker 1: him and hope he would get reelected and know him that.
Speaker 1: You know, Bobby didn't have long and that's how Kamala
Speaker 1: would take over. She would have if you think about it,
Speaker 1: we came very close. That's what I thought of having
Speaker 1: her appointed president or not a single vote through a
Speaker 1: quality that she ever won, right.
Speaker 2: No, No, And that that was honestly back then when
Speaker 2: they were talking about him running again, because remember he
Speaker 2: was only supposed to do to one term, and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm going to run again, and I was like, what
Speaker 2: I would have The only reason to do that would
Speaker 2: be to pretty much have him become incapacitated at some point.
Speaker 2: Whether he died or not would be another issue. But
Speaker 2: I figured his twenty fifth Amendment is going to happen here,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's before he did the debate and
Speaker 2: everybody went see see, look, see what's wrong with him.
Speaker 2: You just knew it was over at that point. So
Speaker 2: the only reason to do that now was to try
Speaker 2: and pass him off as electable to hand it over
Speaker 2: to her. But that didn't work out, did it.
Speaker 1: I kind of put off after that debate. And what
Speaker 1: gets me is they honest. I can't believe that his
Speaker 1: staff actually thought he would go into that debate and
Speaker 1: look good.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: See that's the thing. At a certain point, they were
Speaker 2: protecting him and a decision was clearly made. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's either that or it's such horrific incompetence that you know,
Speaker 2: if I was Biden, I'd be looking for some heads
Speaker 2: to roll because I'd be pissed.
Speaker 1: I don't well, I think they I think Biden screwed
Speaker 1: him over. I said, yeah, i'll debate. I think that
Speaker 1: was Biden. His ego was too big, even not to
Speaker 1: try to hold his own and he thought. I think
Speaker 1: his ego was big enough, big enough a little that
Speaker 1: he got it was burst after that debate. But I
Speaker 1: thought he thought he could pull it off.
Speaker 2: See, Okay, The reason why I don't buy it again
Speaker 2: is because of Reagan, because at a certain point, Reagan
Speaker 2: was being protected.
Speaker 1: You know, you want to realize Biden's big thing to
Speaker 1: that point was he was the only you know, he
Speaker 1: was the only person that could be Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it, but that would have been a
Speaker 2: point to run him as a figurehead. My point is
Speaker 2: is that public appearances were very much managed in the
Speaker 2: second Reagan administration, and they managed it in some cases
Speaker 2: by tricking him. You know, all you got to do
Speaker 2: is Okay, yes, sir, we're going to bring it to
Speaker 2: the debate, and then you turn around and you cancel
Speaker 2: it at the last minute because of emergency. Literally, just
Speaker 2: create another emergency and sorry, the president can't be on
Speaker 2: a debate stage because we have a critical issue. You
Speaker 2: can invent a critical issue at any moment and justify it. Okay,
Speaker 2: you could say there's some problem in Syria or whatever,
Speaker 2: and our troops might be needed.
Speaker 1: To just not to realize though, I don't think Reagan
Speaker 1: had problems until about midway of his second term. So
Speaker 1: you've got guys. Yeah, they were protecting him to make
Speaker 1: it seem like everything was hockey dory. In this case,
Speaker 1: Biden was so bad before the chance to get his
Speaker 1: second term that I think Biden blew it. I think
Speaker 1: Biden thought he could win. Yeah, but that's just how
Speaker 1: big his ego was.
Speaker 2: They started to manage Reagan. If you remember, from eighty
Speaker 2: to eighty four, right Reagan was on live TV all
Speaker 2: the time right and outside of the thing with Kadafi,
Speaker 2: I guess it was he didn't go on live TV
Speaker 2: again after that, like when his second term started, no
Speaker 2: more live TV, and you can see the outtakes where
Speaker 2: they're having to coach him, they're having to massage him.
Speaker 2: They definitely needed to edit what it was they released
Speaker 2: and all that, and then you ended up with taped
Speaker 2: statements from the White House instead of live TV. They
Speaker 2: managed that and his public appearances.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't I really though, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I don't think Reagan was anywhere near bad
Speaker 1: as Biden was.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he was metal health wise. I don't
Speaker 3: think he get deteriorated. He had, but like I say,
Speaker 3: he handled his debates and everything during the re election
Speaker 3: I think without a problem.
Speaker 1: I think it was after that when he really started
Speaker 1: going down hill, started going downhill fast. But Biden was bad.
Speaker 1: They say those problems with Biden when he left as
Speaker 1: vice president, he was starting to go bad. Maybe so
Speaker 1: he had four years of Trump's first thing to get worse.
Speaker 1: I think there was a big difference between the medical
Speaker 1: deterioration of Biden versus Reagan. I think Biden was much
Speaker 1: worse earlier.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make a direct comparison as to
Speaker 2: who was worse. I'm simply saying that Reagan was dead right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They managed, Yes, they managed his appearances and everything else,
Speaker 1: and managed the narrative. They did a good job of it.
Speaker 1: I don't think I think Biden's ego is what fought
Speaker 1: against I think his handlers. There were times where he
Speaker 1: said stuff and said yeah, we'll do this or we'll
Speaker 1: do that. It just pissed off as handlers, and they
Speaker 1: would find a way to brush it aside. But I
Speaker 1: think I think Biden's ego, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: he went into that re election as her I'm got
Speaker 1: to be Trump. I'm the only one to beat him again.
Speaker 1: I think his ego is so big. I don't know
Speaker 1: a lot of people seem to want to talk nice
Speaker 1: about Biden during his I don't know his waning months,
Speaker 1: let's say a waning years. I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: bad about him, but I mean, he's been a prick
Speaker 1: since he got in office, and I look, he's had
Speaker 1: a huge ego since he's been in office.
Speaker 2: If you think for a second, I'm a fan of
Speaker 2: a career politician who stayed overstayed his welcome, and sat
Speaker 2: there in power even though he couldn't manage it. No,
Speaker 2: I have no nice things to say about him, not
Speaker 2: even from the beginning. This guy was a career politician
Speaker 2: who is directly responsible and interacted with some of the
Speaker 2: worst decisions made in this country's history. That is Joe
Speaker 2: Riden in a nutshell. But the thing is Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 2: My point about him is that he started to suffer
Speaker 2: the front end of Alzheimer's in that second term, that
Speaker 2: I am certain of, and they managed it so well
Speaker 2: though that the public didn't even see it. Nobody talked
Speaker 2: about you know, oh gee, Reagan's got outside. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, some comedians made jokes about he was a
Speaker 2: little old, and you know, the wackiness of the TV.
Speaker 1: He didn't have the media faverage what you have now.
Speaker 2: Well, no, so that was easier to manage because, yeah,
Speaker 2: you had to purposely go on live TV and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, whereas these guys can you know,
Speaker 2: flip open something and be on Twitter in five seconds,
Speaker 2: you know, which is a whole other issue. But I
Speaker 2: think what happened here is that they decided to stop
Speaker 2: protecting him because anybody would have known it would have
Speaker 2: been an imperative to keep him off of that debate
Speaker 2: stage or to minimize his exposure during that debate one
Speaker 2: way or another, because I mean the second he tried,
Speaker 2: remember when he peeled the mask off and all that,
Speaker 2: and it's hanging from his ear, and I mean it
Speaker 2: was just like clearly grampaiing with it, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I think we can, we can. You know,
Speaker 1: thank Joe Biden for a lot of that too. It's
Speaker 1: understanding from stuff I've read that she was the main
Speaker 1: force behind him running for reelection. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: him into it.
Speaker 2: Well that's just foolishness again, mismanagement. But if you're going
Speaker 2: to run him for reelection, you run him as a
Speaker 2: figurehead and then let Kamala take over. That was the idea,
Speaker 2: and I thought that's what they were doing.
Speaker 1: But I'm surprised, honestly that when the debate meant so bad, yep,
Speaker 1: that they didn't automatically tell the Democrats, Okay, twenty fifth
Speaker 1: Amendment time, we're going to get him out, get Kamala in.
Speaker 1: Now Kamala can run for reelection as an incumbent. I'm
Speaker 1: really surprised they didn't try to pull that off.
Speaker 2: Well because technically speaking, again, it's supposed to be up
Speaker 2: to eight, you know, two terms or ten years. The
Speaker 2: ten years is there so that in case you serve
Speaker 2: as a vice president coming in, you still have two
Speaker 2: terms of your own, so long as you didn't have
Speaker 2: more than half a term in.
Speaker 1: That was the idea, and that I'm really surprised that
Speaker 1: they didn't try to put her in. Where is the
Speaker 1: debate June or May?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Jeez, I don't even remember May or June somewhere in there.
Speaker 1: It was beginning of summer when he did so badly
Speaker 1: and the press just started going all way now where
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: hide this one. We can only take that for him
Speaker 1: so much. I'm really surprised that the NIFAT didn't get
Speaker 1: together and said, right, right, he showed he's we just
Speaker 1: found out, just like you, the man has dementia, he's
Speaker 1: not qualified. Let's get rid of him. Kamala goes in,
Speaker 1: then she gets to run as the president.
Speaker 2: Right. It was toward the end of June, by the way. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: so yeah, and then and then that would have skipped
Speaker 2: the whole primary thing too.
Speaker 1: That if they had gotten rid of him and they
Speaker 1: co president, this would have been a totally different election.
Speaker 1: Trump would have won, Trump would he would have won.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out how much more he
Speaker 1: would have won than if she was running as the VP.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, because they would have had more
Speaker 2: time to work out a propaganda campaign, you know, So
Speaker 2: I don't know. I really don't know, because people are
Speaker 2: often affected by the propaganda regardless of the facts. So
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's difficult to say. To be honestly,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you would have won by more.
Speaker 2: I knew the second they switched her in. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: that's game over because there's no way she beats him.
Speaker 2: It's impossible. Anyway, we do have a caller on the line,
Speaker 2: so I want to get to them and see what's
Speaker 2: on their mind. And you're live, what's up, Hey, guys?
Speaker 1: How are you doing?
Speaker 2: Good night or good evening? Hey, okay, Chris, how are
Speaker 2: you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm doing I'm doing social I just had a question
Speaker 4: for the two of yous. If the Democrats decided to
Speaker 4: instead of going with the cryptkeeper in chief. Do you
Speaker 4: think they still like if they.
Speaker 6: Pulled him off away from the re election thing originally,
Speaker 6: do you think they still would have tried to go
Speaker 6: with Kamala or who do you think like the.
Speaker 4: Next the runner up would be if they decided to
Speaker 4: just trash her too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, See, here's the deal. They would have chosen a
Speaker 2: different You would have ended up with a different vice
Speaker 2: president on the ticket with Kamala. And if they were
Speaker 2: going to go See, initially I thought they were going
Speaker 2: to try and protect him the rest of the way
Speaker 2: through and then all you got to do is get
Speaker 2: him sworn in. And then somewhere in March or so like,
Speaker 2: say around now you turn around, you say, oh, cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 2: You know what, he's incapacitated between the chemo therapy and
Speaker 2: his age and whatever else. We can't help it. And
Speaker 2: now Kamala's president and now we a point of VP.
Speaker 2: Now that VP better be strong for re election, you know,
Speaker 2: four years later. But they would have already had the end.
Speaker 2: I thought that was what the strategy was. But what
Speaker 2: confused me is it just seems like they decided not
Speaker 2: to protect him anymore because I would have made it
Speaker 2: an imperative for him not to get on that debate
Speaker 2: stage if I was trying to manage that. And even
Speaker 2: looking back at the way they managed Reagan, it was
Speaker 2: like they kept him out of the public spotlight for
Speaker 2: almost the entirety of that second term so that he
Speaker 2: wouldn't slip up. And I've seen the outtakes when they
Speaker 2: tried doing the pre recorded stuff, it's rough.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and when he had he's got the full blown
Speaker 7: on Alzheimer's by that point.
Speaker 2: Well, by the time he got out office, yeah, he is,
Speaker 2: he was done. But there's a certain point where he's
Speaker 2: transitioning and he's forgetting things like the person's name was
Speaker 2: sitting right in front of him that he spent all
Speaker 2: day with, you know, and it's like, okay, no, I
Speaker 2: don't remember your name, but I do remember, Yeah, which
Speaker 2: country are we talking about again? I mean, that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff was going on in the outtakes, which nobody
Speaker 2: saw until like maybe five years ago, so you know,
Speaker 2: and then they put out a very well edited piece
Speaker 2: where Reagan's looking at the camera and he's acting. He's
Speaker 2: still you know, he could get himself back with it
Speaker 2: for a couple of minutes, and that's the thing. Biden
Speaker 2: could do that too, but somebody needed to manage him
Speaker 2: because remember he made statements on TV and people were like, see,
Speaker 2: he's fine, and he did. He looked fine in a
Speaker 2: very controlled short burst where they knew who was going
Speaker 2: to ask the questions. He was already prepared for it.
Speaker 2: And he also had the excuse of look, I gotta go,
Speaker 2: you know. So he's like in and out of walking
Speaker 2: in and out of a room and this and that,
Speaker 2: and he can handle it very coordinated. Yeah, But at
Speaker 2: some point somebody dropped the ball there, and it was
Speaker 2: June already, so you know, I don't know what the
Speaker 2: thought process was there, but it just appears to me
Speaker 2: like somebody decided to stop protecting him, and the only
Speaker 2: way that they were going to do it is if
Speaker 2: they really seriously highly managed it. You know, like remember
Speaker 2: them keeping him out Remember during the pandemic supposedly twenty
Speaker 2: twenty when he got selected, the guy was being kept
Speaker 2: in the basement, remember the whole complaint. Well, yeah, because
Speaker 2: they were managing his public appearances, so he was probably
Speaker 2: already on the you know, Reagan's second term decline during
Speaker 2: his first term, you know, like before he got in
Speaker 2: there like during Trump's term. Like mean, Pete was saying,
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with any of that, but what is
Speaker 2: weird to me is it just seems like somebody decided
Speaker 2: that we're not going to protect him anymore. And I
Speaker 2: don't know what the calculus was there, unless they wanted
Speaker 2: to lose to Trump, because that's the only outcome I
Speaker 2: see there. Kamala was unelectable. There's a reason why she
Speaker 2: could not even score a victory in the very heavily
Speaker 2: manipulated Democratic primaries. She couldn't score a victory against Joe Biden,
Speaker 2: you know, not exactly mister electric personality out there. And
Speaker 2: she even tried the whole Hey, I was a little
Speaker 2: black girl on a school bus and you were over
Speaker 2: there agreeing with the guy who didn't want to integrate
Speaker 2: the schools. Huh huh, what about that old racist white man.
Speaker 2: That didn't work. None of that works because she's unworkable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she got out before the first primary vote.
Speaker 2: Because they ran right out of money because everybody they
Speaker 2: abandoned ship like rats. It was like, screw this, I'm
Speaker 2: not throwing ball.
Speaker 1: And that's when they were They were also manipulating, you
Speaker 1: know how you had to be on poles, Mason White
Speaker 1: poles and all that, because that's what kept Tulca Gabbard
Speaker 1: on a lot of debates. She had the points to
Speaker 1: go on after Iowa to a couple of them. There
Speaker 1: were a couple she was excluded from. But Kamala didn't
Speaker 1: even make it to the first primary. She was so bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, also the prejudice you kind of you kind
Speaker 2: of like Tulci though, that's that's the prejudice there.
Speaker 1: She had the points, well, she had the points, but
Speaker 1: that was one of her complaints. People were hitting certain
Speaker 1: milestones in the polls, and then the d n C
Speaker 1: changed the pride to for the mixt debate. That's how
Speaker 1: I got rid of her. That's how they got They
Speaker 1: looked what they did to Bernie. Okay, Randon, we're willing
Speaker 1: to burn anybody.
Speaker 2: Oh no, they need cat Bernie. They mee captain twice.
Speaker 1: You talk about a rug poll.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, he should listen. There's two times this guy
Speaker 2: should have been the Democratic nominee twice as far as
Speaker 2: I'm concerned. But anyway, oh yeah, let me ask you
Speaker 2: this real quick though, just on the Telsea Gabbard issue.
Speaker 2: And then I'll drop it with a s mark on
Speaker 2: my face. You think she's doing a good job, as
Speaker 2: you know DNC there, because you know, come on, you
Speaker 2: think this is all good with the transparency and all that.
Speaker 2: You think she's doing a good job.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be what the job she's doing
Speaker 1: so far, but I wish there's some other things she
Speaker 1: would do.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's forgiving.
Speaker 1: You lawful all you want. But you look at what
Speaker 1: she's taking on. And he was in that place before
Speaker 1: she went in there. If you had clapped, you had Blennan,
Speaker 1: you had people that were absolutely crooked and should be
Speaker 1: in jail. She's got to go in there and start
Speaker 1: spending the sledtam with the bust it up. I hope
Speaker 1: she does. Now. There's been some security issues that have
Speaker 1: come up that I don't know why she hasn't been
Speaker 1: on top of it or they keeping her away from
Speaker 1: certain things. But yeah, she needs to go in there
Speaker 1: and just set off the biggest bob she can and
Speaker 1: shadder shatter our national security complex because it ain't for
Speaker 1: national security. Yeah, but she had a security of those
Speaker 1: with the money and the power to benefit from it, and.
Speaker 2: She ain't gonna do that, And I'm kind of glad
Speaker 2: that they didn't bring her onto the stage because she
Speaker 2: wasn't a Democrat, as I said at the time, but
Speaker 2: nobody wanted to listen to me.
Speaker 1: At a Democrats Bernie. In fact, she was supporting Bernie's
Speaker 1: run when she got out. She was supporting Bernie over Hillary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because she couldn't possibly side with Hillary for
Speaker 2: God's sake, I mean, you know who could See. That's
Speaker 2: the other weird thing about the democratic calculus is like
Speaker 2: asking to lose. You know, you don't want to be
Speaker 2: in power. It's clear even if you go surface level
Speaker 2: and you don't believe in any of the conspiracy stuff
Speaker 2: that I do that's under the surface there. If you
Speaker 2: just go with surface level politics, Hillary Clinton was an unelectable,
Speaker 2: pointless publicity stunt. Okay, that's all she was. So you're
Speaker 2: with her. You're with her because you.
Speaker 1: Flit. If it hadn't been Trump, she's still a very
Speaker 1: good chance of taking that election from anybody else that
Speaker 1: was on the Republican side that would have been there
Speaker 1: had Trump gotten in.
Speaker 2: See, I don't think so, I got to I don't
Speaker 2: think so, because look, even among her supporters back then,
Speaker 2: when I was desperately trying to find some please send
Speaker 2: me somebody from I literally contacted campaign. I contacted the
Speaker 2: Georgia office of the campaign. I contacted the Jersey based
Speaker 2: office of the campaign. I tried to get a representative
Speaker 2: on here to enthusiastically explain to me why it is
Speaker 2: I should have Hillary Clinton as my president. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was her turn, but see it obviously wasn't because it
Speaker 2: didn't work.
Speaker 1: Nor if he hadn't been Trump, Like I said, Trump,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Trump would have run as a Democrat,
Speaker 1: but he knew wouldn't be Hillary as a Democrat, and
Speaker 1: that's why he ran Republican. Well, if Trump had gone.
Speaker 1: Up to that time, Trump had been supporting Democratic presidential nominees.
Speaker 1: Now pray, yes, he has supported both sides over the years,
Speaker 1: he said New York Illustrate Developer. He's going to That's
Speaker 1: part of your job is to pay both sides. So,
Speaker 1: like he said, I know the system, folk because I
Speaker 1: use it. So he took the good advantage of it.
Speaker 1: But I think he did he knew that if he
Speaker 1: ran against Jerry in the primary, Harry was going to win.
Speaker 1: Like I said, look at what they did to Bernie
Speaker 1: as strong as he was.
Speaker 2: Well in Jersey. That's why Republicans But okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1: I honestly think that that's why Trump ran as a
Speaker 1: Republican so he could run against it her, because he
Speaker 1: knew he wouldn't be her on the Democrat side.
Speaker 2: He ran as a Republican because Republicans have this loyalty
Speaker 2: based thing that works well. Democrats do not. They eat
Speaker 2: their own. No.
Speaker 1: No, when Trump came out, until Trump started making the
Speaker 1: comments that he was making, they caught on with his
Speaker 1: Mica crowd. He had a huge part of the Republican
Speaker 1: Party that said, we're not going to put up with
Speaker 1: this shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, But and Trump took.
Speaker 1: Advantage of that position, and he went out there and
Speaker 1: said the most outrageous things because he knew that's what
Speaker 1: was going to twist their watch. Okay, that was We're
Speaker 1: going to put their stuff in a wad. Trump played
Speaker 1: the Republican Party and took it over.
Speaker 2: After twelve years of exploratory committees. By the way, that
Speaker 2: he actually did pay okay, actually paid people to explore
Speaker 2: on his presidential runs. And I'm telling you, the calculus
Speaker 2: was more about I know that if I get any
Speaker 2: sort of a foothold in the Republican Party, They'll stick
Speaker 2: by me because I'm a Republican.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Because he knew that Republicans were tired of the
Speaker 1: reret perces and toss them they had been getting over
Speaker 1: the past twelve years. Oh yeah, vote for this guy.
Speaker 1: He's going to do this. And it turns out he's
Speaker 1: no different than the other guy. Republicans were ready for
Speaker 1: a change, and Trump took advantage of it, and he
Speaker 1: played the Republican Party like a fiddle.
Speaker 2: Well, he also hold a whole bunch of people in
Speaker 2: that were part of the disenchanted right wing back to
Speaker 2: the Republican Party because that was all going libertarian and
Speaker 2: also going with you know, they were thinking about starting
Speaker 2: the Patriot Party and all this other stuff, and he
Speaker 2: folded it right in and so it was. But it
Speaker 2: was based on loyalty. You can get loyalty out of
Speaker 2: the R side of the equation. You can't get it
Speaker 2: out of the Democrats side. They turn on each other
Speaker 2: so fast. I mean, take a look at how fast
Speaker 2: they got rid of Al Franken compared to any of
Speaker 2: these other guys. I mean, what they just convicted that Georgia.
Speaker 2: What is his name, not Soro Santos, right, the Santos guy.
Speaker 2: They just convicted him again, didn't they.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: But meanwhile they weren't even gonna remove him while he was,
Speaker 2: you know, sitting in jail. They weren't going to remove
Speaker 2: him because he's a Republican. Nope, that's our guy. We're
Speaker 2: gonna you know, we're not gonna say we love him,
Speaker 2: but we're not gonna remove him. We're not gonna actively
Speaker 2: go after him.
Speaker 1: Because we don't want to. Well, they want to give
Speaker 1: up that.
Speaker 2: Suit, that's it. But that's it. Don't want to give
Speaker 2: up the seat, don't want to give up the numbers.
Speaker 2: So everybody sticks together Democrats. It's a circular firing squad anyway.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: To the point though, when it comes down to pass facts,
Speaker 1: they sac for the wagons. You got to give the Democrats.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at how they tried to fall behind Kamala.
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, okay, but you see how long that lasted.
Speaker 2: Not very long. They stick by anybody who is The
Speaker 2: Republicans are the party of loyalty. It's that simple. In
Speaker 2: my mind, Democrats, disloyalty is one of the first words
Speaker 2: that comes out of my mouth, not only to their
Speaker 2: own agendas and their own causes, but to each other,
Speaker 2: to themselves, I mean, get out of here. I cannot
Speaker 2: accept that. That is a huge difference. That's why Trump
Speaker 2: won well on the Republican side, because he realized Democratic
Speaker 2: side they're going to sit there splitting hairs over his
Speaker 2: past pointless anyway, that's my answer to it. And then
Speaker 2: you got to beat Pete's answers. So did that help
Speaker 2: you any Chris?
Speaker 6: It helped me quite a bit.
Speaker 4: But I would be kicking myself later on if I
Speaker 4: didn't clarify something that I think you made a statement
Speaker 4: earlier in the show.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I heard it right, But did.
Speaker 2: You did you met Jeffrey Epstein? No, no, no, not
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein. Oh okay, I just heard that. I know
Speaker 2: what that's in regard to no Sean Combs. Yes, oh okay,
Speaker 2: all right, all right. In the early nineties, Bad Boy
Speaker 2: Records was in search of a bunch of stuff that
Speaker 2: they They first started looking at local musicians to do
Speaker 2: backing tracks because they wanted to redo certain things like
Speaker 2: they ended up doing that whole thing. This is before
Speaker 2: Biggie Smalls was even killed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was one of the first butt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had office space in I want to
Speaker 2: say it was on Madison Avenue in New York, and
Speaker 2: they brought musicians from Asbury Park to meet with him.
Speaker 2: And he was a pompous, weird you know, very strange
Speaker 2: because he didn't have the money to back it up
Speaker 2: at that point, but he acted as though he was
Speaker 2: already a mogul, you know. And then you know, basically
Speaker 2: when when Chris Wallace or Biggie Small's or you know,
Speaker 2: the notorious Big when he died, that kind of like
Speaker 2: catapulted the guy forward because up to that point, he's
Speaker 2: the producer who's on everybody's record, who was controlling the music,
Speaker 2: and was definitely controlling the production, but he needed session
Speaker 2: players and stuff to kind of get on the bad
Speaker 2: boy team, and at a certain point he wanted to.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because the meeting started with you know,
Speaker 2: here's my white boys, because it was it was a
Speaker 2: bunch of us in a room and we met with
Speaker 2: him to try and I can't even tell you the
Speaker 2: full purpose of that meeting at this point, but wasn't
Speaker 2: no freak offs. I wasn't involved in none of that.
Speaker 2: I was just present for a you know, hey, maybe
Speaker 2: we could get the Aspburry Park musicians involved with the
Speaker 2: you know, with the efforts of bad Boy and create
Speaker 2: He wanted to create a standing library of stuff that
Speaker 2: they could go to and like, actually, have you know,
Speaker 2: a real drummer doing drum beats and things like that
Speaker 2: instead of just sampling because at that point there was
Speaker 2: a lot of legal issues with sampling and like James
Speaker 2: Brown was fine with it, but like Rick James was
Speaker 2: pissed off, you know, stuff like that. So they wanted
Speaker 2: to recreate stuff and get like, you know, get a
Speaker 2: drummer to play something like funky drummer, but it's not
Speaker 2: funky drummer, you know what I mean. Get a guitarist,
Speaker 2: a rock guitarist, you know, kind of like And it
Speaker 2: was even brought up the whole Michael Jackson and Eddie
Speaker 2: Van Halen thing where it's like, yeah, well that's where
Speaker 2: you can create a crossover because if you get something
Speaker 2: that's a good, solid, you know, rock ribbed kind of thing,
Speaker 2: then you're going to expand that audience beyond the urban
Speaker 2: you know. And at that point Bad Boy was was
Speaker 2: a brand new well, it was around for a while,
Speaker 2: I guess, but it was brand new as far as
Speaker 2: being big on the scene, and it still mattered a lot.
Speaker 2: And after the success of what came from the West
Speaker 2: coast again, because you got to remember, there was the
Speaker 2: like the La rock thing was a huge explosion, so like,
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen bands from La were like the top
Speaker 2: of the charts for a little bit, and then you
Speaker 2: have Seattle. Yeah so, and a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: know this, but there was always a New Jersey Seattle connection,
Speaker 2: so really there were yeah, like for instance, two of
Speaker 2: the guys from Stone Temple Pilots are from Point Pleasant,
Speaker 2: New Jersey.
Speaker 4: And anyway, what did the gals the drummer there, Eric Kretz, No.
Speaker 2: The Galio Brothers, they're from Point Pleasant. Originally, I think.
Speaker 1: You could almost say the Gruns really started on the
Speaker 1: East Coast but became famous when it made it to
Speaker 1: the Seattle exactly.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened, because we had a huge punk scene.
Speaker 2: If you even take a close listen to what is
Speaker 2: that guy's Davey the Daily Show guy John Stewart, Right.
Speaker 2: John Stewart in his early days was hanging out at
Speaker 2: a big place in Jersey called City Gardens, and he
Speaker 2: wasn't famous then. He was just like another punk hanging around.
Speaker 2: There was a huge punk scene, that's what we called it.
Speaker 2: It was punk slash hardcore stuff in Jersey, and you
Speaker 2: had pretty much there was like a faction of like
Speaker 2: the New York Hardcore. If you ever seen an X
Speaker 2: where it says ny HC, well there was also the NJHC. Anyways,
Speaker 2: both of these things were going on, and these were
Speaker 2: fairly successful scenes. Now, there wasn't a lot of money
Speaker 2: because it was a lot of broke kids from the
Speaker 2: you know, the outer edges of the suburbs, not really
Speaker 2: in the good parts of this suburbs that were coming out.
Speaker 2: But they were filling huge places like this, Like every
Speaker 2: week they would come out and put a couple thousand
Speaker 2: people into a place like City Gardens, and all ages
Speaker 2: shows and stuff like that was going all up and
Speaker 2: down the Jersey Shore and in New York City some
Speaker 2: and uh, that stuff got picked up and kind of
Speaker 2: transferred over because we all thought even I went to
Speaker 2: la at a certain point, I've told you about this
Speaker 2: in the nineties. I went out there thinking that that
Speaker 2: might be a better place for me to you know,
Speaker 2: catch catch a career and it didn't work for me,
Speaker 2: but a lot of other people did well, you know,
Speaker 2: like I told you, Eric Rattan was from was from
Speaker 2: a band called Ripping Corpse. He ends up in the
Speaker 2: band Morbid Angel. Yeah, there's a lot of guys that
Speaker 2: came from Jersey. Jack Blood too.
Speaker 7: I know Jack Blood was in Seattle at one point.
Speaker 4: But was he like one of the original people.
Speaker 1: Like in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: No, Jack was U Jack was. He had been on
Speaker 2: the East coast in like Delaware, I think, like working
Speaker 2: radio stations and stuff. But in between he worked, like
Speaker 2: you know, his day job was like being a program
Speaker 2: director of radio stations. He's out there though with like
Speaker 2: Chris Cornell and those guys. He was in the in
Speaker 2: the mix with those guys and just as one of
Speaker 2: the guys that didn't make it out. And if you
Speaker 2: listen to his music, Look, I love Jack, but a
Speaker 2: lot of his music I don't know what he's thinking.
Speaker 2: But anyway, and look, I got a lot If somebody
Speaker 2: ever dug up some of the ugly tapes on me,
Speaker 2: believe me, you could find a lot of ugly demo
Speaker 2: tapes of stuff that I did. But anyway, there were
Speaker 2: skateboarders listening to stuff I was doing in Jersey and
Speaker 2: Guam for Christ's sake, because they liked some of that
Speaker 2: weird punk stuff, and that was the stuff I was doing,
Speaker 2: you know, outside of the medal. I like I've said,
Speaker 2: I've done every kind of music possible. But anyway, the
Speaker 2: de Leo Brothers, yeah, they're transplants from point pleasant. I
Speaker 2: can't say I think off the top of my head
Speaker 2: the other guys, but there's a bunch of guys that
Speaker 2: went from Jersey and a lot of people think they're
Speaker 2: from Los Angeles or they're from Seattle or see. That's
Speaker 2: how I ended up even knowing about Lane Staley and
Speaker 2: what was going on, because he was connected to some
Speaker 2: New Jersey musicians who nobody was writing about, you know,
Speaker 2: unless you got like underground fanzines back then and stuff.
Speaker 2: So yeah, anyway, there's a whole thing to it. But
Speaker 2: there was like a small element of like Jersey people
Speaker 2: that went to the wet West Coast. And that's why,
Speaker 2: by the way, I got this weird thing. Somebody sent
Speaker 2: me a note about, oh, well, you know it couldn't
Speaker 2: be real because you said you were at an apartment
Speaker 2: at this place or whatever. Yet because I met Lane
Speaker 2: Staley in Los Angeles, he had a.
Speaker 1: Place though your band, like.
Speaker 7: You were backing up Alison Chains at one point right
Speaker 7: in like ninety one ninety two.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't back them up. What happened is they
Speaker 2: invited a bunch of the local singers on the stage
Speaker 2: to do a tune with them when they were doing
Speaker 2: a set at the Stone Pony. But so I sang
Speaker 2: on a microphone on the same stage. But it was
Speaker 2: me and like three four other guys too, and we
Speaker 2: did see if sorrow was the name of the song anyway.
Speaker 2: But before that, what I'm saying is there was a
Speaker 2: bunch of guys who went from New York and New
Speaker 2: Jersey who went to LA and went over to the
Speaker 2: West Coast in general, and some of them ended up
Speaker 2: in Seattle or in that area. Now. Lane where he
Speaker 2: died and where the last place I saw him was is, Yeah,
Speaker 2: is quite a drive. It's a drive north of where
Speaker 2: I was. Okay, So I get into a car with
Speaker 2: a couple of guys and we're on the road for
Speaker 2: I think an hour and a half about to get
Speaker 2: to this other place that he was at. But where
Speaker 2: I initially met him was in an apartment in la
Speaker 2: and I to this day couldn't tell you who actually
Speaker 2: lived there because guys were in and out of the place.
Speaker 2: It was like one of those shared joints by like
Speaker 2: a bunch of musicians. So like, you know, there's two
Speaker 2: guys on the lease, but there's like three bands living
Speaker 2: there kind of thing, right, you know. So it was
Speaker 2: one of those deals. And then when he really started
Speaker 2: to isolate and he pulled away and he was like
Speaker 2: almost unrecognizable. That was one of the last times I
Speaker 2: saw him. And I saw that place, and that place
Speaker 2: was and you know what, he was better off in
Speaker 2: the apartment where three bands lived. It was cleaner and
Speaker 2: it was less of a mess, and there was more light.
Speaker 2: He had like no lights on. It was a weird seed. Anyways,
Speaker 2: you saw him.
Speaker 7: One of the last times you saw him was close
Speaker 7: to the end, right, like ninety eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. So but that was my last
Speaker 2: time seeing the guys. But anyway, that's on my second
Speaker 2: trip out there, not when I was trying to plan
Speaker 2: a flag But anyway, during all of this, the New
Speaker 2: York and or the East Coast and West Coast hip
Speaker 2: hop thing is going on. So Sean Combs and his
Speaker 2: partner whose name I can never remember, who seemed like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, a normal person, Okay, which he was not,
Speaker 2: but like a normal kind of like black business dude
Speaker 2: was there. And these guys were trying to figure out
Speaker 2: how to create a library of go to stuff and
Speaker 2: have some session musicians that they could kind of put
Speaker 2: on a payroll and that way they could cover stuff.
Speaker 2: And they could, but they wound up going in another
Speaker 2: direction when the party thing did better. See at that point,
Speaker 2: party planning was a big deal with the bad boy
Speaker 2: thing and with the hip hop culture. So they would
Speaker 2: create a huge party and I don't even know how
Speaker 2: they generated revenue out of it, but they generated revenue
Speaker 2: out of just holding huge parties. I guess selling booze.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I was never in on the
Speaker 2: business side of it and I never went to those parties,
Speaker 2: but I knew about them, and I knew that they
Speaker 2: wanted to pay some of us to do some of
Speaker 2: the other studio musicians stuff and to like, you know,
Speaker 2: help out with the engineering and this and that, but
Speaker 2: basically just to present them with raw material that they
Speaker 2: could turn and refit into somebody else's stuff, even creating
Speaker 2: you know, like different drum loops and different beats and
Speaker 2: stuff like some accents and things that were similar to
Speaker 2: pre existing tracks. Like I said, Rick James was starting
Speaker 2: to sue people, and and some of these other guys
Speaker 2: that were like, you know, seventies musicians and stuff were
Speaker 2: starting to suit people because they were using a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff they had recorded on their tracks and
Speaker 2: making lots of money, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: I think you know the.
Speaker 7: Mc hammer take, and then it became like commonplace, like
Speaker 7: not too long after that, well right.
Speaker 2: And you know there's some people that say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: Queen probably got paid more by Vanilla Ice than they
Speaker 2: ever got paid for their own record, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, yeah, But but the thing is that
Speaker 2: they had to but at that point they were creating
Speaker 2: a way to pay their way through. But if not,
Speaker 2: they were going to have guys like me make knockoff tracks.
Speaker 2: So it was similar, but it wasn't exactly the same track, you.
Speaker 7: Know, is in the Vanilla Ice this whole thing like
Speaker 7: oh yeah, the baseline is like it was like one off.
Speaker 4: It was one note off or something that, yeah, he.
Speaker 2: Had one stop, he had one like one ghost note
Speaker 2: in there where it's like there was just goes do
Speaker 2: do do do do do do do do do do
Speaker 2: do do Mine goes do do do do do do
Speaker 2: do do? You know, and I'm like, dude, you're pausing
Speaker 2: the record for a minute. It's not really a big difference.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but at that point, that's where I got
Speaker 2: that meeting with that guy. Uh. But but again, as
Speaker 2: with a lot of other things, didn't go anywhere. You know,
Speaker 2: had a nice time. Uh. I think we all got
Speaker 2: some kind of I think champagne was just being poured
Speaker 2: around the office anyway, So we all got a glass
Speaker 2: of champagne and got to sit there and got the
Speaker 2: pitch about you know how we could, you know, at
Speaker 2: least have this little side gig going. So we got
Speaker 2: our thing, and then you know, you're free to still
Speaker 2: pursue your own music and all that, but if you
Speaker 2: record stuff for us, that's just for us, and we'd
Speaker 2: have to have it so that you can't use any
Speaker 2: of that on any of your own stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you clarified that because at
Speaker 7: the beginning of the program, I was like, did he
Speaker 7: just admit that he met Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 5: I never heard about this.
Speaker 4: No, all right, so that it makes more sense now
Speaker 4: with the music scene and and.
Speaker 2: All that I never met Jeffrey Epstein. I you know,
Speaker 2: what did I do? I talked to people who, you know,
Speaker 2: claimed to have been around him. That's about as close
Speaker 2: as I gets said thing. Anyways, I'm gonna just put
Speaker 2: you on hold for a minute because we got another caller,
Speaker 2: and then I'm gonna check the clock after that, But
Speaker 2: hang around because I'm sure we'll get into some more stuff.
Speaker 2: You already got me run my mouth more than I
Speaker 2: wanted to, But it's okay, hang on, no problem, no problem. Uh,
Speaker 2: I think we got Danny from California. Actually, yeah, hey,
Speaker 2: hete Chuck.
Speaker 5: How you doing, hey man, that's quite interesting. I'm doing
Speaker 5: I'm doing fine. Just a long week at work and
Speaker 5: just woke up a little groggy and really interesting with
Speaker 5: your experience in LA So your primary your trip was
Speaker 5: all all about music in business?
Speaker 2: Well, when I went to Los Angeles, mainly that's what
Speaker 2: I tried to do. Yeah, I mean, I did a
Speaker 2: little sight seeing. I went to go see, uh, like,
Speaker 2: I had nothing to do with any business at the
Speaker 2: Whiskey a go go, but I wanted to see it,
Speaker 2: you know, and also wanted to see the the famous
Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendricks room. I don't know if people know about
Speaker 2: that today or whatever, but it was a it was
Speaker 2: a thing where like Hendricks actually lived in the like
Speaker 2: the attic of the Whiskey for a little while. So
Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to see the apartment.
Speaker 5: You know, right right right, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really
Speaker 5: interesting is the whole music industry and you're talking about
Speaker 5: the kind of bit your your business side have always
Speaker 5: been kind of fascinated with the What I understand about
Speaker 5: the music industry is the one hit wonders. You know,
Speaker 5: it's like, you know, it's like why did it? Why
Speaker 5: did they?
Speaker 1: Why did they never?
Speaker 5: You know, repeat, they got this hit, sounds like they're talented.
Speaker 5: But then somebody I remember sat there and explained to me,
Speaker 5: though it's all a business. They basically you're so desperate
Speaker 5: to make it that you basically sign everything in a way,
Speaker 5: and basically they got this hit and you don't get
Speaker 5: any from it.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a business.
Speaker 5: The businessman get it, and they'll make sure you'll never
Speaker 5: make another record again because you can never pay alkalom.
Speaker 2: Well, so that's what happens. Yeah, that's exactly. Look I
Speaker 2: can tell you from my own experience. I got to
Speaker 2: check for ten grand right and never made another their
Speaker 2: dime recording anything again, and I lost all the stuff
Speaker 2: I had. You know that I had to basically sell
Speaker 2: it off just to keep things going at a certain point.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, your talent never Yeah, it's kind of like
Speaker 5: the corrupt side the dark seas of music now.
Speaker 2: But what's funny is, well, hang on though. I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: One thing that I've always found hilarious is that some
Speaker 2: people can turn around and take that one single hit
Speaker 2: and somehow navigate through it and create a whole industry
Speaker 2: behind it. Give you the perfect example for that is
Speaker 2: Jimmy Buffett, Right. I think he was the guy behind Margaritaville.
Speaker 2: Wasn't that the guy who did the Margaritaville song?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well this guy wound up financially secure and what else
Speaker 2: did he really? Do? You know what I mean? Hit wise?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. And meanwhile, you know, if
Speaker 2: they if they nail you on the first deal. I
Speaker 2: got to tell you, they nail you on the first deal.
Speaker 2: Then they turn around and say, well, look, we'll pay
Speaker 2: for everything for you to record the second one. And
Speaker 2: because you made so much money the first time, you know,
Speaker 2: you were able to pay that back. Okay, we're about
Speaker 2: that even, but now we'll invest in you again. And
Speaker 2: it's that second one. It's sort of like, you know,
Speaker 2: Black Sabbath has spent like it's spent like forty years
Speaker 2: and still has not retained all of the rights from
Speaker 2: their first couple of albums because of that original record deal,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's before Sharon Osborne. You know, Sharon's
Speaker 2: father got involved there, don Arden, before he even got
Speaker 2: involved in the whole mess with management and Black Sabbath,
Speaker 2: those guys, the first three albums, you would think they
Speaker 2: must have sold that thing, you know, a million times over.
Speaker 2: Forget about what they've you know, told you about the
Speaker 2: Gold Records or whatever. Okay, sold a million copies of
Speaker 2: Paranoid or whatever. They've resold it and resold it and
Speaker 2: resold It's been sold on eight track right cassette records,
Speaker 2: you know, digital versions of it. It's probably been sold
Speaker 2: you know, a billion times the songs off of that album,
Speaker 2: but they're not going to see half a billion dollars
Speaker 2: and the original deals some of their like early management
Speaker 2: that they broke with in the seventies is still collecting
Speaker 2: on them, you know what I mean, because of those contracts.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's horrific. But occasionally somebody turns around
Speaker 2: and takes one hit and turns it into an industry.
Speaker 2: I mean, Jimmy Buffett turned around and bought like a resort,
Speaker 2: had like a Margaritaville resort and a cruise and all
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, and he.
Speaker 1: Had he had three albums that did really, really well.
Speaker 1: But his it's not understanding that he's set up his
Speaker 1: contracts differently in that he was making more off of
Speaker 1: touring than actually doing You have you have two schools.
Speaker 1: You have like the still gun school of why are
Speaker 1: we going to deal with touring, Let's concentrate on doing
Speaker 1: album production. And they didn't toured much. But you had
Speaker 1: others like Buffett who wanted to tour because he had
Speaker 1: a following nationwide from college performances and small club performances.
Speaker 1: He turned three albums into a multi million dollar business
Speaker 1: when he started buying resorts and he started his Marguerite
Speaker 1: Deville uh restaurants right well, and that's where that's where
Speaker 1: he made his money late in the game. But here,
Speaker 1: but here's the first three albums did pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the bottom line. Even an album doing
Speaker 2: really well back then, the amount of money that he
Speaker 2: could have made, you would not expect him to have
Speaker 2: anything left as we speak. Okay, just if that's all
Speaker 2: he made. But here's the deal this guy is, according
Speaker 2: to according to the Google AI anyways, he's worth a
Speaker 2: billion dollars. He's one of the world's richest musicians and soelebrities.
Speaker 2: He's also best selling author. Okay, just saying that's Jimmy
Speaker 2: Buffett and there you go. But there's other people that
Speaker 2: might have had five six gold records, you know, a
Speaker 2: ten of them even, and they've got nothing, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And that's not even speaking to the
Speaker 2: time when you know they were selling singles and all
Speaker 2: this stuff. I'm talking about these guys who had albums,
Speaker 2: huge tours and everything else. And there is a way
Speaker 2: to make money off of touring. But the problem is
Speaker 2: you got to have a shark keeping track of that
Speaker 2: because everybody in the world sticks their hands into that
Speaker 2: tour bucket, and believe me, by the time it gets
Speaker 2: to the artist, it's gone.
Speaker 1: I watched a documentary on led Zeppelin and how they
Speaker 1: came up and how their manager basically went into the
Speaker 1: recording studios and said, you know, we don't know who
Speaker 1: came up with the contracts that you're offering bands, but
Speaker 1: we're going to do this. They they kind of broke
Speaker 1: the mold on what they were getting. Where an artist
Speaker 1: at that time might be getting fifteen cent per copy sold,
Speaker 1: they jumped it up to seventy five cents. They changed
Speaker 1: this about and because they didn't tour a lot. Zeppelin
Speaker 1: didn't tour much at all. They got their publicity off
Speaker 1: of being on things like or As the Day whistle
Speaker 1: Stop in BBC programming. They never toured and the problem
Speaker 1: was that their songs were so long. They weren't ideal
Speaker 1: for top forty radio because they rante long. So they
Speaker 1: and they basically said that the Zeppelin were the ones
Speaker 1: that broke the mold. And after them, you know, you
Speaker 1: look at the Beatles. The Beatles didn't make hardly crap
Speaker 1: off their stuff, and Zeppelin saw what was going on
Speaker 1: there and said hell, no, we're not doing this. We're
Speaker 1: completely changing the game. And it was after that that
Speaker 1: you finally saw artists demanding more and more. I mean,
Speaker 1: but look at how many artists got involved in in
Speaker 1: problems with their record company's Tom Petty Creaton's Pull Water Survival.
Speaker 1: You know, you look at all the fans that had
Speaker 1: these or Bopp and Turner, Overdrive, elevench Skinner, all of
Speaker 1: them had songs and public beefs with recording contracts where
Speaker 1: they were basically just getting screwed.
Speaker 2: Now if you look back at like say Chess Records,
Speaker 2: and you look back at you know, stuff like that,
Speaker 2: I mean, Muddy Waters didn't get you know, his family
Speaker 2: didn't get paid until what two thousand and six, by
Speaker 2: the time you know, actual money came in, because you
Speaker 2: would get beat to death just trying to just trying
Speaker 2: to you know, get out there and be heard in
Speaker 2: the first place, to build the legacy. You know, and
Speaker 2: you're talking about this seventy five cents that's because of
Speaker 2: the points system. And the seventy five cents you're talking
Speaker 2: about is when an album, the whole album was five bucks,
Speaker 2: so well that was a significant percentage. But you're right,
Speaker 2: you were getting paid like it was something like seven
Speaker 2: cents of point at one time, and you were lucky
Speaker 2: if you had seven points as an artist, and that's
Speaker 2: of your own publishing ement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know they tell you, Okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna sign you. We're gonna sign you to a three
Speaker 1: record deal, and we're gonna fund you this money. But
Speaker 1: out of this frontage comes promotion costs and touring costs
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah blah. And that was something
Speaker 1: the Zeppelin saw and they said, no, when it comes
Speaker 1: to touring, here's what's gonna happen. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a significant cut of the gate and we get the merchandising.
Speaker 1: And that's how they were able to make They were
Speaker 1: millionaires when all these other bands were sitting there struggling,
Speaker 1: just trying, just trying to work off their advance. You know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of artists out there that we
Speaker 1: put out an album and tour and when the tour
Speaker 1: is done, they steal air a record company seven thousand dollars, right,
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand dollars. You're not gonna work it off. And
Speaker 1: it's like these guys are going we're working for nothing.
Speaker 1: We're not making a dime. The manager for Zeppelin just
Speaker 1: went in there and said, dude, the rock and roll
Speaker 1: is changing and we're changing all these contracts. And it
Speaker 1: was after that that people were able to sprow it
Speaker 1: and negotiate some fair deals.
Speaker 2: Now and there are people that describe it as gangsterism.
Speaker 2: I mean, there is a reason why Chuck Berry slept
Speaker 2: in his car and cooked steaks on a grill outside
Speaker 2: of his freaking car at a gig, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, because he didn't want to wind up. Okay,
Speaker 2: now we're going to charge you for the bus, we're
Speaker 2: going to charge you for the plane, we're going to
Speaker 2: charge you for the hotel room. And they would pad
Speaker 2: those bills and believe me, money went out. You know, you.
Speaker 1: Look at the raft just in touring, when when everything
Speaker 1: is subbed out to turlers and contractors and merchandisers and
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got everybody's taking their share. And like
Speaker 1: I said, you had bands that went years that were
Speaker 1: still You had bands that folded and probably never paid
Speaker 1: back to a record company what they owed.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know, I believe me. You know It
Speaker 2: was a good example of that. Unfortunately, you remember Eddie
Speaker 2: and the Cruisers, right, remember the movie, Well, the real
Speaker 2: life Eddie and the Cruisers was John Cafferty, who was
Speaker 2: a guy from Jersey. By the way, John Cafferty and
Speaker 2: the Beaver Brown Band, those guys never got even though
Speaker 2: they did you know, Eddie and the Cruisers two and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. They never got anything out of that
Speaker 2: first album. And that was like a phenomena, a weird phenomena.
Speaker 2: People wanted Eddie and the Cruisers to do a tour
Speaker 2: and they sent John Cafferty around to do a tour. Nothing.
Speaker 2: They made zero off of that, and I knew some
Speaker 2: of those guys. They made nothing.
Speaker 1: It was all tied up in the promotion for the movie,
Speaker 1: wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it was. By the time Hollywood accounting
Speaker 2: got done with them and music industry got done with them,
Speaker 2: they got like very like they got enough. I think
Speaker 2: John got enough to buy a car okay, in like
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine something like that. So whatever the cost
Speaker 2: of a new car was in nineteen eighty nine, that's
Speaker 2: how much he ended up with out of being like
Speaker 2: a phenomenon putting in all that work recording all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And if you don't remember the stuff it was again,
Speaker 2: some people might be too young to even remember it
Speaker 2: at all, but it was a phenomena. Eddie and the Cruisers,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and it was definitely they were top of
Speaker 2: the chart for a while. And believe it or not,
Speaker 2: that was a very like Jersey shore rock sound. You know,
Speaker 2: there's more to it than Bruce Springsteen, by the way,
Speaker 2: but very much if you listen to it, sounds kind
Speaker 2: of similar to Springsteen's stuff, doesn't it, because there was
Speaker 2: a whole music scene to that ever for the Jersey unfortunately. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: but not from the like look Asbury Park, like the
Speaker 2: area where I grew up. That's where Springsteen's from. And
Speaker 2: Cafferty's from around that area too, with some of the
Speaker 2: guys in the band as well as well as some
Speaker 2: of the guys in the Yeah skid Row and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. But actually John is from a little up
Speaker 2: north of that and kind of like the nicer suburbs
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, And what.
Speaker 1: I understand, he was behind some very shady deals on
Speaker 1: some fans. That was one of was Cinerella probably and
Speaker 1: a couple other bands out there. That fon Jovi was
Speaker 1: the one that got him there deals with the record
Speaker 1: company and then ended up scalping off of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he did a lot of that stuff and
Speaker 2: quite honestly screwed over a lot of people, including his
Speaker 2: own relatives and things like like Tony uh and and
Speaker 2: you know the original Banjievanni name and all that, because
Speaker 2: uh he started out working at his uncle's recording studio.
Speaker 2: And one of the weirdest things ever, if you want
Speaker 2: to see it, is he was actually part of that
Speaker 2: strange promotional blitz for Star Wars at one point. There's
Speaker 2: a there's a Christmas song out there like two D
Speaker 2: two we Love You Merry Christmas. You ought to hear it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's terrible, It's absolutely terrible. No, No, I I literally
Speaker 2: hit that guy in the back with a bottle of
Speaker 2: rolling rock beer on the seaside freaking boards one night
Speaker 2: because an if.
Speaker 1: I think, I think the other Bruce Springsteen album, I've
Speaker 1: got his Tunnel of Love.
Speaker 2: It's so strange, man. Anyway, No, I'm not a big
Speaker 2: bon Jobe fan. I'll tell you that I liked a
Speaker 2: lot of the guys that came out of Jersey. Zach
Speaker 2: wild of course. Uh again, the guy's from skid Row,
Speaker 2: even though Sebastian Bach is a bit of a loudmouth,
Speaker 2: drunk and everything, which is why he got himself beat
Speaker 2: up and like every club on the shore, but definitely
Speaker 2: a nicer guy than John bon Jovi. I cannot see
Speaker 2: why he's mister nice guy or anything. I don't understand
Speaker 2: it because he screwed over a lot of people. But anyway,
Speaker 2: we're gonna wind up running right out of time. I
Speaker 2: didn't even take a single break, Danny. I'm sorry we
Speaker 2: went into like weird things. Did you have some other
Speaker 2: stuff on your mind?
Speaker 5: Well, well I did that. You started the music thing,
Speaker 5: and you know a lot of things. You know, it
Speaker 5: wasn't my genre, but but just a lot of the
Speaker 5: rap artists that you know, they made incredible about somebody
Speaker 5: because they somehow figure out how they figured out themselves
Speaker 5: how to be bigger, better businessmen, and they kind of
Speaker 5: went outside the system and they kind of like turned
Speaker 5: the tables because some of these rap artists made incredible
Speaker 5: amounts of money.
Speaker 2: Well see, it's it's a mixed bag, Danny, because look
Speaker 2: some of these guys. I like the way there's this
Speaker 2: one guy on YouTube who's like wild, he's like all
Speaker 2: about you know, explaining black people to white people or
Speaker 2: something like that. It's just channel and it's pretty funny.
Speaker 2: He gets into some realities, though. Look a guy like
Speaker 2: Sean Combs, right, p Diddy, he figured out how to
Speaker 2: get himself into the position of being the exploiter, and
Speaker 2: he exploited plenty of artists. But that's all that happened.
Speaker 2: There is now just some of the skin tones changed.
Speaker 2: You know, at one point it was a lot of
Speaker 2: white guys taking advantage of a lot of black guys.
Speaker 2: And I mean straight on from Muddy Waters and Chuck
Speaker 2: Berry all the way too, you know, the rap guys. Okay,
Speaker 2: and all that really happened. There is a couple of
Speaker 2: these guys figured out how to get their piece of
Speaker 2: that business. But the artists, the artists have always gotten screwed, man,
Speaker 2: the artists have almost always gotten screwed. I mean even
Speaker 2: when like a guy like oh Man, totally totally out
Speaker 2: of left field, you're gonna think it is. But who
Speaker 2: is the Rach Charles? Okay, Ray Charles actually owning his
Speaker 2: masters and Prince. Prince and Ray Charles are two guys
Speaker 2: that actually made serious changes to the business as far
Speaker 2: as owning their master tapes and stuff like that. And
Speaker 2: still you're not talking about massive estates that these guys.
Speaker 2: You know, guaranteed, if they generated a billion dollars, they
Speaker 2: would have been lucky to become millionaires, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. And that's even with them actually having some
Speaker 2: business savvy, which a lot of guys who are creating music.
Speaker 2: You know what, if you spend ten years in your
Speaker 2: garage working on your guitar, you don't necessarily have a
Speaker 2: head for business, you know what I'm saying. Or you know,
Speaker 2: if all you did is is dedicate, you know, a
Speaker 2: decade of your life to making sure, you know, you
Speaker 2: could play the drums in a unique way, you're not
Speaker 2: necessarily the guy who's going to know how to run
Speaker 2: that business correctly and know how the merchandizing cut really
Speaker 2: should come out and everything. You know, so you wind
Speaker 2: up hiring lawyers, and what do they do. They generally screw.
Speaker 5: You to so you know, of course they got they
Speaker 5: got to eat, you know, I mean, I read Bono's
Speaker 5: memoir and he attributed a lot of their their success,
Speaker 5: you know, not only their own talent.
Speaker 1: There you know there there.
Speaker 5: Inter natural talent, but he said he's lucky by two things.
Speaker 5: One Alison Stewart and is his wife Ali. And then
Speaker 5: they had good business sense and then they just they
Speaker 5: just hooked up with the right manager who didn't have
Speaker 5: a sense of ethics that he was going to make
Speaker 5: more money by promoting a talented band and making sure
Speaker 5: that they continued to produce and tour. And uh, you know,
Speaker 5: you know he you know, he could have been you know,
Speaker 5: they could have been easily broken up, and you know,
Speaker 5: got swallowed up. And I remember reading Bruce Fringsteon's biography
Speaker 5: Born to Run. You know, he ended up even though
Speaker 5: he loved his first manager, but he knew there was
Speaker 5: a point he had assumed for you know, he became
Speaker 5: a big loss, and he said he was fortunate to
Speaker 5: win get back a lot of his music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the whole thing with Springsteen is all the
Speaker 2: way up until that you know, Born in the USA album.
Speaker 2: He was kind of fine with the way things were
Speaker 2: going because he expected to, you know, not make a lot.
Speaker 2: And when that thing again, you know, it's like, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, you're telling me that I've got this thing
Speaker 2: at the top of the charts. It's selling everywhere I am. Now,
Speaker 2: you know, this person, what in the hell you know,
Speaker 2: where's the money? Uh? You know, and these guys, yeah,
Speaker 2: they do wind up, you know. And it's another funny
Speaker 2: thing too. Springsteen was actually in a metal band at
Speaker 2: one point on the Jersey Shore early in his life, right.
Speaker 5: Tut he talked about, Yeah, he talked about his early
Speaker 5: his father was. I really enjoyed his father because he
Speaker 5: really touched on, you know, his own narcissism and and
Speaker 5: his own you know something I didn't know, his own
Speaker 5: mental health issues, you know, depressed and then his father
Speaker 5: and I didn't realize.
Speaker 8: That he ended up his parents ended up out here
Speaker 8: in northern California and Sam Matteo and I know that
Speaker 8: area really well. And the whole time he was hanging
Speaker 8: out there before he got even b.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's after well after he left high school.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: And you know he had done a little bit of
Speaker 2: a bit on the Jersey Shore, you know, just being
Speaker 2: a local musician. Yeah, when he went out to see
Speaker 2: but that's the thing. He goes out to California, that's
Speaker 2: where he started to make some connections. I don't know
Speaker 2: how that was done because I don't know all the details,
Speaker 2: but you know what, can I say, I at least
Speaker 2: have some respect for Bruce Springsteen. I'm not a big fan,
Speaker 2: but I at least have some respect for him. John
Speaker 2: bon Job I've got no respect for the guy. The guy.
Speaker 2: The guy was a predator, and I think a barely
Speaker 2: talented at all. Okay, I mean not very talented in
Speaker 2: my mind, John bon Jovi. He got lucky at a
Speaker 2: certain point in time and got out there in the
Speaker 2: hair band era, and you know, was just pretty, was
Speaker 2: just pretty enough not to scare thirteen year old girls.
Speaker 2: And uh and that's and that's how he made some money. Hey, listen,
Speaker 2: let me get check the check the phone lines here
Speaker 2: real fast, because I know we still got Chris hanging out.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring him on too, just because we're gonna
Speaker 2: run out of time real quick here, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: go on to the Age of Transitions at ten pm
Speaker 2: Eastern here because Aaron Franz is waiting in the wings,
Speaker 2: and I do see you on teams, Aaron, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna call you in shortly. But Chris, I got you
Speaker 2: back on the line. Sorry, time is just flying away
Speaker 2: on the here that's fine.
Speaker 4: I h The only other question I had in regards
Speaker 4: to earlier when you were talking about P Diddy, did
Speaker 4: you have ever have any kind of run ins.
Speaker 7: With with Tupac Shakkurl Shakur or and.
Speaker 4: Who's the guy suge Knight, sug Knight, That's what I
Speaker 4: was curious about.
Speaker 2: I saw Suge Knight in Pennsylvania once, but never no
Speaker 2: run in or anything. And I never was anywhere near
Speaker 2: to Pakshakur. But yeah, but I saw suge Knight. Uh
Speaker 2: it was it. Yeah, it was one of the Philly
Speaker 2: things that was going on. But because that death Row again,
Speaker 2: this there was this weird thing going on with the
Speaker 2: East Coast West Coast deal, and it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I can't remember even exactly what what was I doing there? Oh,
Speaker 2: I was. I was going out to play this place
Speaker 2: called the Cell Block in It's just outside of Philly.
Speaker 2: I think I got to have to look it up
Speaker 2: actually to figure out exactly where it was, but I
Speaker 2: know it was past Philly because Philly was easy to
Speaker 2: get to and at a certain point we ended up
Speaker 2: stopping off in the city. So I was at the
Speaker 2: same place that Suge Knight was at one point, I think,
Speaker 2: but I never actually talked to him or interacted with him.
Speaker 2: But okay, those were crazier days. Okay, what can I say?
Speaker 7: And the million dollar question is did you ever see Kurt?
Speaker 2: No? No, No, I knew people. I knew people that
Speaker 2: knew Kurt. I knew people that knew Courtney. But a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, funny thing, Jack Blood was actually Courtney's
Speaker 2: roommate for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got very, very scared that.
Speaker 4: You can see it on my Rumble channel.
Speaker 1: You can see my interview with him.
Speaker 6: I actually felt bad afterwards by even broaching the subject.
Speaker 4: And he was pretty tight lipped about his association with
Speaker 4: Courtney Love.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I tried to tell you he's a
Speaker 2: little weird about that because I don't know, he doesn't
Speaker 2: He's got odd sensibilities about that because she was involved
Speaker 2: with a lot of crazy stuff. Man, he was a
Speaker 2: body count there. Ye.
Speaker 7: People might think I'm a.
Speaker 4: Conspiracy guy, but and I am. But uh yeah, he
Speaker 4: those those uh maybe those fears aren't unfounded.
Speaker 2: So uh yeah, well Son there.
Speaker 4: I was just always curious because I know you were
Speaker 4: on stage with Lane.
Speaker 2: I was always curious if you.
Speaker 6: Were on stage was not stage, but it.
Speaker 2: Ever came across Kurt, No, I didn't. But uh, but again,
Speaker 2: you know, Jack was in the middle of all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And it's so strange to me that nobody really talks
Speaker 2: about it all that much. But a lot of those
Speaker 2: Seattle guys are all dead and gone, and all of
Speaker 2: them early, you know, and it's like, oh, it's just
Speaker 2: the rock star thing, it's just the drugs. But I
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, I think there's something more
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 4: Me too, And uh, you know, you look at John.
Speaker 4: John Potash's work points to a lot of that stuff,
Speaker 4: including the rap stuff.
Speaker 2: All Right. Potash is the only guy I've seen who
Speaker 2: goes across the genre and points out some very important things.
Speaker 2: And you know, I was only ever able to give
Speaker 2: him one, one interesting lead on something. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it ever went anywhere, but I guess we'll see
Speaker 2: the next time he puts out a film, because uh,
Speaker 2: I gave him. I gave him something interesting. Let me
Speaker 2: just put it to you this way. If something comes
Speaker 2: up and there's like a very serious New Jersey based
Speaker 2: part of the puzzle in the next film he puts out,
Speaker 2: then uh, then I'll tell you about it, because it
Speaker 2: don't mean that he worked with it, because there was
Speaker 2: some very weird stuff happening, uh up at a place
Speaker 2: called Studio one in Newark, New Jersey, and uh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway that between that and the the other bizarre
Speaker 2: stuff at the Limelight, New York. Yeah, I wonder if
Speaker 2: he's going to touch on it in a in an
Speaker 2: upcoming piece. I guess we'll see. Yeah, anyway, we're almost
Speaker 2: out of time.
Speaker 5: I appreciate I appreciate being here, Chuck.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no problem at all, no problem at all,
Speaker 2: and glad to have you along. Glad to have you
Speaker 2: along Danny as well. I'm gonna go ahead and put
Speaker 2: you both on hold real fast and give b Pete
Speaker 2: the kind of the last word for the week.
Speaker 1: Well all, well one than nikn listen free by fast.
Speaker 1: All I can say is, everybody go to tell dot
Speaker 1: com with the donate button, to which came to help
Speaker 1: us outs coach local food boats. Thank you Chris and
Speaker 1: Baby for calling you. Looking forward to do the next week?
Speaker 2: Look so am I And here's the thing before I go.
Speaker 2: I meant to mention this at the top of the
Speaker 2: show and didn't get to it. So I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to keep repeating it over the next couple of shows.
Speaker 2: I would love to hear from you guys, send me
Speaker 2: some ideas about stuff you want covered, because I'm telling
Speaker 2: you now, I'm exhausted from the news. I know I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to I'm gonna be working on a book
Speaker 2: over the next couple of weeks. But outside of that,
Speaker 2: I want to know from you guys what you want
Speaker 2: covered on here, because I'm exhausted, I'm tired, and quite frankly,
Speaker 2: i'm bored. I mean, I got a bad tooth, uh
Speaker 2: and some depression kicking in here. So you know, you guys,
Speaker 2: tell me what it is you want to hear about,
Speaker 2: and that's what we'll cover on the show. How about
Speaker 2: that blind jfk researcher at gmail dot com. You can
Speaker 2: email me there, reach out to me O'Kelly effect on
Speaker 2: x Charles O'Kelly now the Chuck O'Kelly page on Facebook.
Speaker 2: I can't get back into because I don't have a
Speaker 2: government ID, but you know, reach out to me any
Speaker 2: which way you want, click the email thing on the website,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to do. Let me know what you
Speaker 2: want covered on the show, so I'll be working on
Speaker 2: a book and also the Weekly Reader. We're going to
Speaker 2: finally have some releases coming up this week, so that's
Speaker 2: all there is to it. And coming up next on
Speaker 2: O'Kelly dot com Radio
Speaker 5: Sh