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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Stephanie Wilder Taylor and this is Drunkish.

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I wrote a book called Drunkish that came out a

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while ago where I told my whole sobriety story. But

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now I have a podcast so I can hear other

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people's sobriety stories. And you don't even have to be

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sober to listen. So curl up with a mocktail or

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a beer, no judgment. I'm not watching you.

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Speaker 2: And before we.

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Speaker 1: Get to today's guest, please follow, like, subscribe, review, do

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all the things to help this podcast grow. I will

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really appreciate it. And now today's guest is Kathleen Wilhoyt.

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She is an actress. She's been in a ton of

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movies and TV shows starting in the eighties. She's an

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amazing musician with two CDs out Pitched Like a Girl

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and Shiva Plus. She was cast in the upcoming Hulu

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series about the Murda Murders. And here she is with

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me right now. Hello, Kathleen. I'm so happy you're here.

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Thank you for doing this.

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Speaker 3: Happy to be here, very happy to be here. I

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adore you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I have a memory of us doing your podcast

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that you had a long time ago to suck the

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Joy podcast, and I remember coming over was a little

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bit far. It's like west Side, remember that west Side?

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And we recorded. We had such a really good show.

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We recorded for like an hour and a half and

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then and then your producer was like, I didn't it

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didn't record, remember that?

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Speaker 3: But we just hung out for an hour. We did.

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We had some technical difficulties. That's a problem with the

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gen X and the new fangled computers. Where's the on

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sweetch you know, I know.

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Speaker 1: But and then I was like, oh my god, that

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was We were both so funned. We were like, that

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was so good. It's not about to be podcast stars.

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And then I had to come back. I came back

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like another time, and we redid it. I feel like

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we recaptured. How long did you do that podcast?

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Speaker 3: I know, four or five years, you know, and we

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had a ball. It's just, you know, we ended up

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having artistic differences because he wanted a he very much

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wanted a non structured thing, and I wanted to start

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bringing structure into it. So that's a pretty big impasse.

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I think, is it the wrong word? If I say

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the wrong word.

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Speaker 1: That's that's all right, That's that's correct, he reached an impasse.

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Speaker 3: I love him so much. He just moved to Palm Springs, Corey.

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His name is Coryell. Jeff's kids of a human being.

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I love him so much.

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Speaker 2: Is he still doing podcasts?

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Speaker 3: No? Well, you know, we also got into politics a lot,

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and that is you have to be pretty ballsy to

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do that. And since then, I've been very strong in

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my opinions, but I ended up getting like I wasn't

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able to hear the other side. So that doesn't make

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you a very good I don't know. I don't think

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that makes you like I wanted to just scream out

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at the universe, and I didn't think that made for

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a very good podcast. You know, we had a friend

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of mine, this guy, he's a gun teacher. He teaches

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people how to shoot guns. Well, of course, he is

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pro gun. That's his living, that's his passion, Like he

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gives a shit. He wants people to be armed up,

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that's his whole thing. And I wanted him on the

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podcast to just have a discussion with us, and I

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had him listen to a bunch of previous podcasts and

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he's like, there's no way on God's green Earth I'd

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go on that podcast, and I was like, why you

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guys have no open mind to my perspective on this

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at all, you know, And I realized, like, wow, we

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are not professional podcasters like you know. And it was

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just sort of a simple It was a little bit

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of a moment where we were like hmm. And then

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when I had a difference of opinion with Corey, my

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podcast partner, I didn't feel like I presented my position

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with any kind of strength or intelligence. I just wanted

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to scream at him and say it's just how I feel. Stop,

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you know, which is not doesn't make it a great debater.

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Speaker 1: So he didn't receive that. Well, listen, you guys made

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it four or five years. You said, that's a long

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time for podcasters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we made a lot of podcasts. We had some

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really good ones too.

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Speaker 1: I thought, sometimes it just runs its course and you

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feel like you want it to be different. In the

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person feels doesn't feel that way because I can see

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both sides of what you're saying right now, Like, I

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think what's glorious about podcasting is it can just be

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free form. I mean, this podcast hangs itself on being

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about sobriety. But I feel like a lot of podcasts

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that I like to listen to are just you know,

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we don't know where they're going to go.

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Speaker 3: Oh interesting, And I prefer very like I love Heather

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Cox Richardson, you know, and she's basically just reading her piece,

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you know, or another one I like Ezra Klein, which

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is also he doesn't know where he's going to go,

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but he has a very strong position. What else do

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I There's some podcasts I adore, you know. I did

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listen to every episode of Dying for Sex and then

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now the show's on and I'm one episode away from

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finishing it, and I just think it's so good.

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Speaker 2: I loved that podcast. Yeah, yeah, it was good.

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Speaker 3: And then The Murdow Murders, which is I just did

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a mini series called The Murdaw Murders based on this

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podcast that Mandy Matney. Mandy Mattney did about the Murdaw Murders.

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She did ninety seven episodes from and she ended up

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inserting herself in the actual trial because she uncovered some

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she did some you know, crime stop or whatever amateur

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slew thing, and she was in the actual trial. So

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it was kind of fun to meet her at the

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end of the miniseries that I just did in Atlanta.

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She was there and I was I was sort of like,

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you said, what do you call fangirling and girling?

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Speaker 2: When does that come out? I'm so excited about that.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that comes out probably October maybe. Oh, okay, they

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turned those things around. It's a Hulu Disney thing. It's

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with Patricia Arcatt, isn't it and this guy Jason Clark.

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I don't know, just and it was just such a

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great experience for me. I mean, I just felt like,

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I can't believe.

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Speaker 2: This, you know, it's really cool.

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Speaker 3: Just I got to do some acting. This kid Johnny

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Birch told isn't it had had on my scenes with

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him and Patricia Arquette, and I don't know, it just

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made me feel good. I just couldn't believe I was

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number six on the call sheet and someone was asking

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me what I wanted for breakfast. I felt like, really,

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I guess my breakfast brito. You know. I was so stoked,

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like and everyone's like, you're so happy all the time,

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and I was just like, because I have been really

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kind of unemployed, not unemployed, but just you know, I

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feel like the acting business sort of grabbed me by

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the lapels and just like smashed my face into the curve.

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You know, aging and eight aging as a character, actress

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or whatever the hell I am is a tricky business.

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It's tricky. It's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Now you've been acting since the eighties. You sort of

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hit the ground in the eighties. And I'm wondering because

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I'm a I'm around the same age as you, So

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I got that period. Early eighties mid eighties was like

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high school for us.

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Speaker 2: So you started young.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was eighteen. I was eighteen. And this is

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an interesting thing on the internet is an interview that

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I did when I was doing promotion from my first album,

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and I it makes me sick to even think about

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because I say, you know, acting jobs just haven't been

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very hard for me. I just kind of I just

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get the money. No, it was just sickening about how

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I took for granted the luck that I that befell me,

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you know, I mean that I was in the right

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place at the right time, And to see that interview,

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I just want to puke on my shoes, you know, like,

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good lord, you lucky bitch, you know, because then you know,

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like now I am a humble pie city you know

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I'm making self tapes. I'm just trying to figure out

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and find the joy in making these self tapes. And

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for those of you who don't know what self tapes are,

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it's the gateway to getting an acting job. Now it's

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no longer the audition in the room, it's these self tapes.

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So I've just been doing that and that's few and

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far between, and I feel like I have to just

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keep putting my best foot forward, keep swinging, basically, keep swinging.

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And it's hard.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's hard become.

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Speaker 3: Sixty one years old? It's fucking hard.

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Speaker 1: Now you've been sober for a long time. How old

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were you when you got sober?

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Speaker 3: I was twenty.

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Speaker 1: Nine, okay, and I'm a baby now, but that's kind

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of a baby to me.

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Speaker 3: I think so too. My My oldest son is thirty.

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Is he thirty roy or twenty nine? Jimmy? Okay, he's

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so he's.

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Speaker 2: The age that you were when you got sober.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when you were first starting acting, was it like

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a big drinking culture?

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Speaker 2: Was ever? You know?

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Speaker 1: Or do you feel like it was just you? And

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I also want to know if you think that your

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long term sobriety has helped you be more resilient in

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the you know, when things aren't going well.

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Speaker 3: Oh great questions. Okay, so when I got sober, excuse me,

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when I was in the throes in the acting business started.

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My first acting job was private school for girls in

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nineteen eighty two, and the craft service person was the

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coke dealer. We partied every night with the whole cast

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and crew, hardcore. I found my best friend on Earth

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in that cast, and she and I were just on,

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you know, we were trying to do the old blackout

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preventative cocaine dance with like if I do four martinis

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plus a quarter gram, you know, up, I missed the four.

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Now I'm into six, and we got two grams, you know,

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I mean, I just missed all my calculations to the

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drunker and higher you get, the more your calculations go

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to shit. And then found that, you know, I'd be

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grinding my teeth at you know, six in the morning,

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trying to down as much you know, niquil as I

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possibly could, just to sleep. You know. Sometimes I remember

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once I decided to go jogging. I mean, can you

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imagine how how taxing that would have been on my

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poor little heart, you know. Anyway, that's the world that

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I knew. I didn't know. I knew one chick in

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AA and she was weird. And she'd asked me to dinner,

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and instead of taking me to dinner, once I was

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in her car, she took me to Rodeo Drive, which

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is a big Hollywood, sparkly, glittery AA meeting. And I'm like, oh,

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it was horrible for me. I just sat there, like,

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what I thought we were going at dinner? What the hell?

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You know? But I heard stuff.

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Speaker 1: Sinks, SLINKs even though but you were a kid at

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that time, you weren't even There.

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Speaker 3: Was no way I was gonna get sober. Plus, you know,

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you hit a bottom, not me. I was making more

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money than I ever had. I chowed his dollars. No

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way was I getting sober. So I was too busy

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buying drinks for the bar, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And it was working.

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Speaker 3: And you know, outside of the fact that I always

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missed the mark, it works if you work it like

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it worked for me for a while, you know. And

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then I got record deals and plays and movies and flying.

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I was flying all over the place. And that's when

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they in that interview on the web where I'm just like,

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I think jobs that's come easy to me, Like, oh

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my god, I just you know, I was very very lucky,

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and and I was I trained a lot, and I'm

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super passionate, and I wrote a song a day, like

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I was extremely disciplined about my art form because my

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life depended on it. Right. It was the thing that

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gave me my right to drink and party hard because

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all my heroes, you know, fucking you know, we're you

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know whatever that you can name all the brilliant alcoholics

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that you know, those are the people that I admired,

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and I was like, I'm like them. Ah, you know.

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Speaker 1: So, but when you were doing all coke and drinking

238
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and you were still able to show up at your

239
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call time, Like when did you did any of it

240
00:13:47,399 --> 00:13:50,840
ever get you in trouble because you got nothing but success?

241
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,240
Or was everybody like late to call time? Or was

242
00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:57,519
you were you just young and could handle your drugs

243
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and alcohol and you're just like six a I am,

244
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You're on set.

245
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Speaker 3: No, that's a great. So what happens is that, in

246
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:11,440
my opinion, alcoholism is a progressive disease, and so I

247
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:14,159
was handling it, handling in it and then not handling

248
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,039
it so much, and then I was missed. I remember

249
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,480
I was so close to getting this movie War of

250
00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:25,039
the Roses, and I passed out in the parking lot

251
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,159
at twentieth Century Fox and woke up like two hours

252
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,200
later with the drool and the sun beaming down my head,

253
00:14:32,559 --> 00:14:35,639
my bangs all sweated on my forehead. I'm like, I'm

254
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:40,200
ready for the audition. They're like, you know, like I've

255
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,879
had so many missed it by all that much. To

256
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,639
quote Maxwell Smart, I've had so many opportunities that I

257
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,799
just pissed on. I had this great manager that would

258
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:56,399
that got me record deals and plays, and he was

259
00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:59,679
and then finally, you know, it just crashed and burned

260
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,559
with my drinking, his codependency, you know, and so then

261
00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:06,840
he was out of my life. I don't need him,

262
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,120
you know, and you just start. It's sort of like

263
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,279
the David statue and that allegory people talk about when

264
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,559
they they usually say it in glowing terms about they

265
00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:21,679
just chipped off the rock to find David. I guess

266
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,080
Michaelangelo talked about that just you know that thing, I

267
00:15:25,159 --> 00:15:27,639
mean chipped off the road. Well, for me, I think

268
00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:31,960
that happens as well with budding alcoholics who have been

269
00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:36,559
gifted opportunities and beautiful lives, and you just slowly, with

270
00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:41,200
each situation, chip off the rock until your David looks

271
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,639
like a drunk of a cigarette hanging out of your mouth,

272
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and you know you haven't washed your hair and it's

273
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:50,279
calico in two two weeks, and you know, tattoos you

274
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,399
didn't want like I got, you know whatever, just stupid shit,

275
00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:57,279
married like a guy I barely knew, you know, Just

276
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dumb decisions just started to add up and just stack

277
00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:06,679
up right higher and higher and higher, until finally I

278
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,759
got fired off of a movie. And that was like

279
00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:13,519
where I was. I couldn't blame my ex husband. It

280
00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:17,000
was only me. I was in New Jersey, I was there,

281
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,240
you know, I don't remember getting off the plane, full blackout.

282
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:24,159
I had swizzle sticks in the buttonholes of my jean

283
00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:27,960
jacket because I used to drink jack and coke and

284
00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:30,919
so I had just a full jean jacket of swizzle sticks.

285
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,159
And as an actress, there's like my friend made a

286
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,799
joke me actress me. No, my lines like they just

287
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,480
sort of scoop you up at the airport. You don't

288
00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:44,519
have to do a lot of any of that interim

289
00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:47,799
thinking that normal people have to do. And they take

290
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,360
you to the hotel, you know, and then I just

291
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,399
crashed and burned and could not stop drinking. It just

292
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:57,039
just buried me. And then I got fired before I

293
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:57,840
even started.

294
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Speaker 2: Oh well that was the movie.

295
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,039
Speaker 3: It was called Jersey Girls.

296
00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:05,160
Speaker 2: I feel like that sounds familiar.

297
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,319
Speaker 1: So so you get there and you're just out of it,

298
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,559
and what do you remember what happened? Did they just

299
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,160
tell your manager? Did they call you into an office?

300
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:18,240
I love a good fire story.

301
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:25,799
Speaker 3: Okay, so my husband had overdosed an hour before the

302
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,880
limousine ruled up to my house. He overdosed. He didn't die,

303
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,920
but he went into a Grandma seizure. I'd take him

304
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,240
to the hospital. The whole thing. I was extremely traumatized.

305
00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:40,599
I get into the limousine. They're like, there's beer back there,

306
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,000
and I'm like, shesh, I gotta have a cocktail. This

307
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,039
is horrific my day. So that's when the drinking started

308
00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:52,160
and the inability to say no, and I just drank

309
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,000
to the airport, drank on the plane, drank up the plane,

310
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,160
drank from the plane to the hotel drank that night

311
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,720
when I was meeting everybody, it was like, let's meet

312
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,519
at the bar, but I'd already been like soused by

313
00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:09,400
the time I rolled into the bar. And then I

314
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,160
guess I went out with everybody I don't know, blackout

315
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,039
somebody maybe on this planet earth nose, I don't know.

316
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:21,440
Woke up the next day to watered down vodka, little

317
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:26,759
lime drinks all over there was like it was gross.

318
00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:29,559
I won't go into the details, but it was gross.

319
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,400
And my message light blinking. I call my ex husband,

320
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,759
who was my husband at the time, and he's like, baby,

321
00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:38,720
they don't want you on this. No. I didn't call him.

322
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,880
I ran to the the read through. It was a

323
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,920
read through, and I roll into the read through forty

324
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,319
five minutes late. They're already like, I think they're already

325
00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:52,880
getting in the works to fire me. But I just

326
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,319
jumped in there and read my lines for the rest

327
00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:57,920
of the movie that I had missed, and then they

328
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,480
had me go on this this charade, the strad of

329
00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:05,079
a costume fitting and everything I put on, They're like,

330
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,079
looks great. That looks so good, and I'm like, boy,

331
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,200
this is weird. Are you sure this may this maybe

332
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,559
doesn't fit right, and they were like, nope, looks good.

333
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:17,799
Look So everybody knew I was fired. And then I

334
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,359
remember seeing this actress who was sitting in the hallway

335
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,759
and I was like, hey, man, because I knew she

336
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,920
went out with us, and I was like, I'm sorry,

337
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,759
I uh, I fucked up last night. I feel I'm

338
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:30,160
sorry about that. And she she didn't even look at me,

339
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,519
and she just went like this, oh man, And I

340
00:19:35,599 --> 00:19:39,440
just was like, my heart just dropped. And I was like, well,

341
00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:41,759
you know, first she get defensive, screw her, what the

342
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:45,119
hell you know? And then I got in my hotel

343
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,920
room and called my husband. I'm like, everyone's acting so weird.

344
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,559
He's like, yeah, dude, you were fired. How did he

345
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,359
know because they had called him? I guess what's wrong

346
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,160
with her? I don't know. It was a mess.

347
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,599
Speaker 2: You're like, maybe what's wrong with her? He's the one

348
00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:01,440
who just overdosed.

349
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 3: Right, didn't that the way? But I'm the one who

350
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:07,039
just got fired without him anyway, it was a long

351
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,920
walk with my three months of close through that hotel

352
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,319
room to the limousine, back to the airport, back to

353
00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:16,799
LA and there was my little junkie husband picking me

354
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,640
up the airport, drove drove me back to my house

355
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,720
on Dick's Street and uh, and then I called a

356
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:26,039
central office and.

357
00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: That was it.

358
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 3: They were like, go down the Robertson Boulevard to the

359
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,119
log cabin. And I remember, I can tell you. I

360
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,720
remember walking down Robertson Boulevard. I wore really high shoes

361
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:41,680
because I'm short for my weight, really high shoes. And

362
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:49,519
I remember doing this with every step until they got

363
00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:50,359
to the log cabin.

364
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,640
Speaker 1: So you just went by yourself, I myself, did you

365
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,880
do you remember if you tried to get him to

366
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,759
go to I feel like that's a thing that we

367
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,440
all do, a lot of us do in very early

368
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:04,079
is go like, well, I'm not the only one. These

369
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,000
people have a problem too, I'm going to make them

370
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,400
go with me.

371
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,799
Speaker 3: We did that, he and I, you know, we went

372
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,880
to Narcotics Anonymous in Nashville. He went to treatment in Nashville.

373
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,559
I paid for it and then helped him escape after

374
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:22,279
a week. Thought we were really yeah, that was some

375
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,599
of my good decision making, you know. So we knew

376
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,400
all about AA. I just didn't know if I wanted

377
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,920
to do it, if I was that bad or whatever.

378
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,799
But when I got fired off of the movie, I

379
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,559
was like, I don't want this anymore. Plus, my mother

380
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,160
is alcoholic, and I know what's down the line in

381
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,640
that life, and it sucks. It's this dead life. It's

382
00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:45,119
like a zombie life. You know. That's the way my

383
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,440
mother lived. Worked all day and then drank herself into

384
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,680
a stupor all night, and then got up and worked

385
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,000
all day. And that is a zombie life. And I

386
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:57,519
just did not want that. Mm hmm.

387
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: What about your father? I was, pardon me, what about

388
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,319
your father?

389
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, he's like the classic. You know,

390
00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:11,079
it's easy for me to blame everything on my mom,

391
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,440
but he, you know, he they were a classic alan

392
00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:19,440
on alcoholic. He drank every drink for a drink. But

393
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,240
he didn't have the personality change that she would have,

394
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,200
you know, so he got to be kind of the hero.

395
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:26,720
I don't know what's wrong with your mom. You know,

396
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,400
it's pretty unfair in retrospect now that I'm a you know,

397
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:34,160
I have been sober of thirty three years, and in retrospect,

398
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:39,119
you know, he never were you know, excuse me, he never.

399
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,240
He didn't make very much money, and you know, my

400
00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:45,880
mom had to work and she cleaned and she parented,

401
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,680
you know, and he was like this funny he taught

402
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,559
me all these songs. He was a songwriter like me,

403
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:55,400
me and dad. You know, I really identified strongly with him,

404
00:22:55,599 --> 00:23:01,200
and in retrospect, my ex friend and she said, used

405
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,960
to say with when I discussed my parents' relationship, she'd say,

406
00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:09,200
there's not enough booze in the world, you know, because

407
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,880
my mother was like hungover vacuuming under our feet. You know,

408
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,440
we just lift our feet up while we were watching TV.

409
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:18,720
Turn off the vacuum we're watching, you know what I mean.

410
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,519
Can you imagine just so like you know, she was

411
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:28,359
so so mad, and he'd be like, I'm trying to

412
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,559
write a song. He has his ukulele and he's like

413
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,880
he ain't never been to Texas, you know, He's trying

414
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,079
to write this song. And my mom's like, well, I'm

415
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,400
trying to support this household. And he's like, well, I'm

416
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,440
trying to write a song. Like it became this whole

417
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:47,720
you know, what do you want me to do? Sell shoes?

418
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,079
That's what he'd always say. She's like, yeah, kind of

419
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,960
you have five kids, you dope, you know.

420
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,559
Speaker 2: Wow, five of you guys.

421
00:23:57,079 --> 00:24:02,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, well two half and then three whole. So my

422
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,279
dad had two kids before he married my mother. Okay,

423
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,079
but we used to all think of ourselves as one

424
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,920
for all, all for one, and then when my dad

425
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,039
got Alzheimer's, we recognized that that was not the case.

426
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,559
And so my two older sisters can go do their

427
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,559
lives forever. Huh, and we will do our lives. We

428
00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:29,319
aren't one for all and all for one. You know,

429
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440
you realize that your parents have different relationships with their

430
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,680
different kids. They don't turns out love you all the same.

431
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,079
Speaker 1: I have the same experience.

432
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 3: Really tell me, because I've been blabbling this whole time.

433
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,079
Speaker 1: No, no, no, this is this is about you. I

434
00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:50,200
feel like people already know about me, but no, I relate.

435
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,960
I relate to that. Well, I have a whole different situation.

436
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:59,119
My biological father had I was my mom was number three,

437
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,839
wife number three, then he had a wife number four,

438
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,960
and he had kids from all the marriages. And I

439
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,400
don't have a relationship with any of those. I haven't

440
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,680
even met most of them.

441
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: Number one, well.

442
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:12,039
Speaker 2: I never lived with any of them.

443
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:13,839
Speaker 1: I mean they were already older.

444
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: But then also.

445
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:22,519
Speaker 1: My brother and sister are from my stepfather, and I

446
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:27,400
have very different relationships with each of them, one of

447
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,039
them super close, one of them haven't talked to in

448
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,759
a really, really long time. But it does have to

449
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:39,720
do it that dynamic of like what parent is close

450
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:40,559
to how.

451
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,039
Speaker 2: They treat you.

452
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,839
Speaker 1: So bonded me and one of the siblings and did

453
00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:47,799
not bond me and the other. So let's put it

454
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:48,119
that way.

455
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 3: Well, we had an event my dad when he was

456
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,559
diagnosed with Alzheimer's. My two half sisters never spoke to

457
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:03,599
him again, and I completely ghosted him. And as anyone

458
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,759
who knows walking a parent across the Old Rainbow Bridge

459
00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:15,759
who's got brain disease, Alzheimer's dementia is a excruciating journey,

460
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:22,839
painful to watch brilliant people just disintegrate before your very eyes.

461
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:28,000
And so their decision to ghost him and break his

462
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:35,599
heart like that made it very difficult for me to well,

463
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,400
I just didn't have respect for it. I just didn't

464
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,680
have respect for that. And so it is in direct

465
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:49,200
conflict with what I believe my spiritual practices because I'm mad,

466
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,680
and I have to pray to become willing to forgive them.

467
00:26:56,759 --> 00:26:59,920
It's tricky, it's very yeah, freaky.

468
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

469
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: So so take me back though, you get sober?

470
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: Was it one? Was it?

471
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,559
Speaker 3: That was it?

472
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: You went to that meeting and you never drank again.

473
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 3: See the first time I went to well yeah, and

474
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:26,000
that was in nineteen ninety one or nineteen ninety two. Yeah,

475
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:30,000
it was May twenty eighth, nineteen ninety two, and I

476
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,519
just started the journey, and I did what they told

477
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:40,000
me to do, except there was a little pill descrepancy issue.

478
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Me and my EGX found a bunch of pills. Somebody

479
00:27:44,759 --> 00:27:46,799
died in our neighborhood, was during the end of the

480
00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:49,799
AIDS crisis, and they had pushed all their stuff out

481
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,200
onto the curb and we found a box full of

482
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,920
narcotics pills. So we took the box back to our

483
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,519
house and we divided the bills up, so I had

484
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:02,519
my little stash. And then there came a time when

485
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,319
I was going to get my year. You know, we

486
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,480
celebrate our year, right, sobriety dates, and I was going

487
00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:14,119
to get my year, and my ex husband's like, man,

488
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,160
I'm not giving you your I said, you got to

489
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,720
give me a cake. He's like, I'm not giving you

490
00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:20,279
a cake unless you stand up there and say my

491
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,039
name is Kathleen and I'm a liar. I was like,

492
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,119
how ou dare you? You know? And like a movie, yeah,

493
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,440
I was so And then I had to tell my

494
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:34,160
sponsor and she's like, just go and tell the truth.

495
00:28:34,519 --> 00:28:37,079
We're clean and sober now, you know. You know, I'm

496
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,200
glad you didn't drink for a year, because drinking is

497
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,000
my problem, not the bills. I had a real agoraphobia

498
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,960
and real sleep disorder, you know, that is what I

499
00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:53,440
told myself. And anyway, so I picked the dates because

500
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:58,240
my best drudging buddy her birthday was December fourteenth, so

501
00:28:58,319 --> 00:29:00,599
I just picked no, December fifteenth, So I just picked

502
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:02,960
her a date because I knew I had not I

503
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,759
had run out of pills by December fifteenth, when I

504
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,759
had from May to December, I had run out of

505
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:12,039
pills and was clean and sober from December fifteenth on.

506
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: But not really on purpose, but because you'd run out.

507
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: Because I have always said, like I love pain, pills,

508
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,599
loved love, love, love love the feeling it was just

509
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,079
the act of trying to get more was always seemed

510
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:29,160
really hard to me, you know, So when I would

511
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,119
when I would get a prescription for Vicoin for like

512
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,920
dental work. Then I would get the prescription and then

513
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,000
take them all like within a week, you know, like

514
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:40,960
really like so many a day until they were gone

515
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:41,960
like potato chips.

516
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,319
Speaker 2: But then I would be like, damn it, how am

517
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:46,160
I going to get more?

518
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: You know, and then my brain would start to go

519
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,920
like I could like order them from Canada, but it's

520
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,359
like super expensive and I'm going to have to explain

521
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,000
why I'm getting like packages from Canada to my husband

522
00:29:58,079 --> 00:30:00,799
and or you know, I I could like go to

523
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:03,559
a different doctor and say that I have a back

524
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,839
problem or whatever, and then I'd be like or I

525
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,799
could just go to Trader Joe's and get some wine,

526
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:12,519
you know, and then I would therefore not be fully

527
00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:17,079
addicted to pills. But it's not It wasn't by my choice,

528
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:18,480
do you know what I mean? Like if I'd had

529
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:23,039
a bunch, I would have for sure had a real situation.

530
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,319
So I just think it's funny that you just ran

531
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:26,839
out and then you're like, Okay, I guess I'm not

532
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,799
going to do that anymore.

533
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I just a few weeks ago, I

534
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,240
know I have a friend who had a back injury

535
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:44,079
and she had stockpiled her pills, and then she when

536
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:46,599
she'd call me, she'd say she was doing fine, everything

537
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,480
was fine, and then she'd tell me about stuff with

538
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:51,839
her kid, and I'd give her some of my experience,

539
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,680
strength and hope of what I've experienced with my kids.

540
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,440
And we just had this very delightful conversation. And then

541
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,680
I had I'd driven back from Atlanta with my kid,

542
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,640
my daughter, and I was sitting out in my backyard

543
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,039
scrolling looking at Facebook, and it said that she had

544
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:14,240
died on Facebook and they gave information about her her

545
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:21,200
memorial service, and I was like, what the heck. So

546
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,559
I call her wife. I'm like, dude, what is happening?

547
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,480
And she tells me this whole story, and to my mind,

548
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:35,160
it had to deal with when in AA they say

549
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:42,359
resentment is the number one killer and and trauma obviously trauma,

550
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,640
but she took herself out a story. She took herself out.

551
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,640
And on my birthday, June twenty ninth, I'm going to

552
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,519
go to her memorial service. But I've been like blubbering

553
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:55,000
a little bit, wanting to share about it in my

554
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,440
twelve step program because I feel like I know a

555
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,119
lot of people, people who get like steps schmips who cares.

556
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:09,240
And then I have like firsthand knowledge from the foxhole

557
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,160
that if you don't deal with your anger and your

558
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,920
resentments and your and you don't follow what our weird

559
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:25,119
protocol is regarding prescribed medication, there is a very high

560
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:29,759
likelihood that you're going to have to face that demon

561
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,440
pretty hardcore, whether it takes you quote unquote out and

562
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:43,000
you visually relapse, or you take yourself out because you know,

563
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:46,640
like my friend said, my buddy, he's like, remember people

564
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,279
who take themselves out when they're high. They're killing the

565
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,759
wrong guy. And I feel like she killed the wrong guy,

566
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:54,680
you know what I mean, She killed the wrong guy

567
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,160
because as she hung on one more day, like our

568
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,920
friend Carney says, hold on, she would have she would

569
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,400
have been like Jesus, well, that was an overreaction, you

570
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,839
know what I mean. It just it's a real it's

571
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,240
a real, uh wake up call.

572
00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: I get that, you know, of all the things, of

573
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:25,519
all the vices, you know, I know that, like I

574
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:30,200
can't ever take even you know, any kind of benzos again,

575
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:34,759
even because when I originally was given xanax, I was like,

576
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:40,000
oh my gosh, thank God, thank God, either something that

577
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:43,880
can make me feel normal, because I I think I

578
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,839
had a wake up call that I'd been suffering from

579
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,160
anxiety my whole life, you know, And so I was like,

580
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,319
is this how people feel all the time? They just

581
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,079
they feel like this. It didn't make me tired, it

582
00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:57,119
didn't make me nauseous. It just made me like, oh

583
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,240
my god, I can function, you know. And that's so

584
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:06,200
dangerous because the recovery way is definitely the hard way

585
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,760
in the end, in the long run, it's so much better,

586
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,880
and it's is kind of the easier, softer way, but

587
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,800
you don't know it at the time. So it was

588
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,039
very bad news to me when I got sober that

589
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:20,639
I would also have to like never take pain pills,

590
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:21,880
never take xanax.

591
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,679
Speaker 2: I had to tightrate off of xanax. I was on.

592
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:30,559
Speaker 1: A you know, prescribed dose. But I've always known, just

593
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,239
deep in my heart that there's no I could never

594
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,440
go back to that, even though in my mind I

595
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:38,639
was like, that's not my that was not my problem.

596
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,039
I could take that as directed. But there's something about

597
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:48,159
doing something that tricks your brain into thinking like, oh no,

598
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,639
this is how I'm supposed to feel. I'm supposed to

599
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,320
feel good. There's something that tells me, in my deepest

600
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,559
self that that I'm an addict. Like the fact that

601
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:01,079
I think a substance is going to make me feel

602
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,920
normal and better and functional is the most dangerous type

603
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,679
of thinking. So I completely understand and have a good,

604
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,960
healthy fear of like being prescribed anything.

605
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:13,159
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

606
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,559
Speaker 1: When my brain starts to go, you know what, you're

607
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:21,800
having some real genuine anxiety. Maybe you should think about

608
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,920
taking a pill. I always go, oh, that thinking is

609
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:30,519
so old because I've been sober sixteen years, so you know,

610
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:34,840
a little something something about yourself right after that many years.

611
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,079
Speaker 2: But so I want to Yeah.

612
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 3: No, that's a very good point I feel. You know,

613
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:47,559
my people from a younger generation in my household have

614
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:51,280
said you have anxiety disorder, and mom, you have all

615
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,280
this and I'm like, no, I am throwing a tantrum.

616
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,440
This is a tantrum. This is me not wanting to

617
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,400
do what I have to do. This is not an

618
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,000
anxiety disorder that I need to be medicated from, you know,

619
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,840
And did you choose it? For shit? That was my son?

620
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:07,719
I didn't hear it, Okay.

621
00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: Anyway, Sorry, Yeah, no, it's that's so true.

622
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,199
Speaker 1: It's like I have to really defend myself against that

623
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,239
kind of thinking that could come back at any time.

624
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,519
But I want to go back because I'm very interested.

625
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:25,760
So you get sober now you're still a musician actress, Like,

626
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,559
did you have to like lick your wounds for a

627
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,079
little while before you got back in because then you

628
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:32,880
had some big roles on some TV shows, which I

629
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,320
was a big fan ER. So, by the way, you

630
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,519
know that show, The Pit, It was sort of basically

631
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:43,280
I say, it's a reboot of ER, but they will

632
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,239
argue that it's not. It's a completely original show. But anyway,

633
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
that inspired me to go back and watch old episodes

634
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,280
of ER. I went back to like season one, and

635
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,920
damn girl, you were the star.

636
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: You were a star. You had a huge lead, you

637
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,599
had a huge storyline. You played Chloe.

638
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: You played what's her name's sister doctor, I can't.

639
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:06,199
Speaker 2: Remember her name.

640
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: Cherry Stringfeld is th yes, exactly, you played the sister.

641
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,239
Were you sober at you were sober right at that time? Yeah,

642
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,679
so your career you got sober and then your career

643
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,639
got so big.

644
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember at thirty days of sobriety. I

645
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,039
had to go to work. I got was doing a

646
00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:31,159
movie and I my sponsor is an actress, and I

647
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,880
was terrified to go to work. And she's like, why

648
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,840
are you so scared? And I was like, cause they're

649
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,119
going to fire me. I know it. I know it.

650
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,559
They're going to fire me. She's like, are you drinking?

651
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,559
Like no, I got my thirty day chip, I told you.

652
00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:47,320
She's like, they might fire you. They probably won't. They

653
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,320
fired you because you were drinking, kay, They like be

654
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:54,320
clear about that. I was like okay. She goes, all

655
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,960
you can do is the best you can do. So

656
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,079
learn your lines and hit your marks, and try to

657
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:03,559
be of service when you're not in front of the camera.

658
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,639
When when you're in front of the camera, be of

659
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,000
service to your fellow actors. I was like okay, but

660
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,199
I was like shaking when I got to the work

661
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:14,079
because I was just like hi, Hi. I just felt like, oh,

662
00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:17,360
I'm so getting fired. I am. I felt like I

663
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:21,119
was at a sandwich board sign that says like I'm

664
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:26,360
gonna be fired, you know. Anyway, I did that movie

665
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,679
and I really had a great time, and it also

666
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:34,679
taught me the valuable lesson of doing everything you can

667
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,679
do to do the right thing. What we say in

668
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,199
our community, do the next indicated step, do your footwork.

669
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,119
But you're asking this seat so your heart will follow.

670
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,559
You know all of these cliches, I employed, deployed, whatever,

671
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:56,760
and and it was amazing. And then I thought I'd

672
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,400
never be able to write a song again. And then

673
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,639
I just started writing song after song. After I stayed

674
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:06,920
in my write a song every single day until finally,

675
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,239
after I gave birth to my son, I got super

676
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,639
postpartum depressed and felt like I was gonna lob my

677
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,079
baby off the balcony. And my husband was like, I

678
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:22,480
finally told him the truth, like that's why I can't

679
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:24,239
go on the balcony. And he's like, you know what,

680
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:27,239
I think you need to make a record. Let's just

681
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,280
make a record, and so he produced.

682
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to go a totally different way.

683
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:33,920
I thought he was going to be like I think

684
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,840
you need to go to the hospital, or I think.

685
00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: You need like medication.

686
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,119
Speaker 1: He's like, I think we need to make a song

687
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:39,719
about it.

688
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,119
Speaker 3: You know what we actually said, because I just burst

689
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:46,800
into tears because it was such a secret, because I

690
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,320
told him my secret that I had. I felt like

691
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,079
I would drop him off the balcony and he said,

692
00:39:54,039 --> 00:40:01,800
then don't go out on the balcony. Yeah, it's me.

693
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,880
I know. He's a good two sweet dave. He's a

694
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,320
good guy. And he said, let's make a record. And

695
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,639
then he goes, you got all these songs. So we

696
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,159
made a record and then yeah, then.

697
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: I was that pitched like a girl.

698
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So I told Kathleen. I mentioned this to

699
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,599
Kathleen before we started recording, but I do think it

700
00:40:23,639 --> 00:40:28,440
bears repeating that I was already a fan. I worked

701
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:34,000
with Kathleen's your husband on a TV show. I mean

702
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:38,400
many many, many many years ago, and you came strolling

703
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,800
in and he said, my wife Kathleen, she's a musician.

704
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,159
And I guess he hadn't because you guys have different

705
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,000
last names. So the way in my memory, he hadn't

706
00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:50,360
said your last he hadn't said, my wife is Kathleen Wilhoyt.

707
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,519
So I just wasn't thinking about it. He's like, yeah,

708
00:40:52,519 --> 00:40:56,199
my wife, she's a musician. And then when you came in,

709
00:40:56,599 --> 00:40:59,440
you came into the office with your baby in the stroller,

710
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,599
and I was like, oh my god, that's Kathleen Wilhoyt,

711
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:06,039
and I don't think you were like super well known

712
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,519
even for your music at that point. But I already

713
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:12,039
owned your CD because i'd heard it on this radio

714
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:14,880
station in LA that played a lot of like new

715
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:18,760
music and broke a lot of sort of alternative adult

716
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:24,159
alternative singer songwriter types, and I had loved I had

717
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,199
bought the CD. Maybe I owned two. Did Shiva come

718
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:31,639
out at that Shiva? Had that already come out?

719
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: Okay? Then I had.

720
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,559
Speaker 1: Whatever it was, I had already played that on repeat.

721
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:40,679
So I was very much fangirling you and like, oh

722
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:41,280
my god, I.

723
00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:44,039
Speaker 2: Didn't know that was your wife. That's crazy. And then

724
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:44,960
I was really excited.

725
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,079
Speaker 3: That's so sweet.

726
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: I know so you, I.

727
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,599
Speaker 1: Mean your music. You are an amazing musician. I just

728
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:53,519
wanted to put that out there.

729
00:41:53,719 --> 00:42:01,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that I love. I love Plaine music. I

730
00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:06,800
love it so so much. And it is a little

731
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:13,320
bit bucket listy for me because my friend is Dina Carter.

732
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,000
She and she sold thirteen million you know Strawberry Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

733
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,239
My friend and we recently got back in touch. Long story,

734
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,000
it doesn't matter anyway, She and I were talking about

735
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:30,679
it but I the life of the musician is very

736
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:37,119
hard on for me as a woman with children, you know,

737
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:42,800
touring like it's just a very hard and being sober.

738
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,840
It's just tricky. So I don't miss the life of

739
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,039
a musician. But the act of writing a song, bringing

740
00:42:51,039 --> 00:42:56,519
it to life, performing it on stage is something I

741
00:42:56,639 --> 00:43:02,480
never want to forget. It is truly so profoundly fulfilling

742
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:07,760
to me in my bone marrow singing something that I wrote,

743
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,800
that I created from nothing. That's why I love so much.

744
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,960
You know, I do jail Guitar Doors, which is a

745
00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:21,360
this you know, Wayne Kramer started this thing, jail Guitar Doors,

746
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:23,639
and it's a bunch of songwriters that go into the

747
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,840
jails and they've got guitars and stuff, and you get

748
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:32,159
to write songs with the inmates. Oh wow. And I

749
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:36,920
love it so much and many times because there's there's

750
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,719
no ego there, like I can't film me, look at me.

751
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,480
I'm a badass in jail writing songs with you, like

752
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:45,400
you can't take your phone in there. So you're really

753
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:51,800
doing this art form at its most like the pearl

754
00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:56,159
of what's extraordinary about the process of writing a song

755
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,679
and performing it and there's great acoustics in jail. I

756
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,000
just sing out, you know, and then the song is gone,

757
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:09,599
like a butterfly on and I get in my car

758
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:12,599
after me and my buddy Pete go for Philippe Sandwich,

759
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:16,280
and I drive home, and many times I just weep

760
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:22,960
about this act, this gift of songwriting. What a blessing

761
00:44:23,039 --> 00:44:26,119
it is that I have this, I get to do

762
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:30,360
this thing. And yeah, I would have loved to stand

763
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,719
in front of thousands of people and sing my songs

764
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,239
and have people sing the choruses back to me. I

765
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,039
would love that, But that's just not what is in

766
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:45,639
the cards for me today. And I dare say that

767
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,000
the satisfaction I get from Jao guitar doors and driving

768
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:54,079
home from a night of songwriting with inmates, and the

769
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:59,000
satisfaction Dina Carter gets for playing, you know, at Staples Center,

770
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,840
you know whatever. I bet they rival each other. I

771
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,679
bet they're close. I think they are. I will choose

772
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:07,679
to believe that they are.

773
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:14,559
Speaker 1: You wrote an amazing song about that choice, about about

774
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:18,400
that that struggle in your mind of like is it

775
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:22,599
enough to be at home and not and give up

776
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,639
that kind of dream?

777
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: I forget what's it called what was that song.

778
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 3: For somebody to worry about somebody? I wrote that show

779
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:33,800
for Nicole's TV show. You know Nicole, she was the least. Yeah,

780
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,280
it was a kind of an interesting thing. My friends said, hey, Kat,

781
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,800
they need a song for this show we're doing the

782
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:44,000
music for, and we think you'd be you know, they

783
00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:45,840
really want you to write the song for it. I

784
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,039
said great. So they said, what, they want to meet

785
00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:51,679
with you first to give you the idea around what

786
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,639
they want the song to be about. And so I

787
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,519
met with them and I brought, you know, brought a notebook,

788
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:00,360
and they started saying, it's a woman who you know,

789
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,039
had a little bits of success with her music career,

790
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:07,079
and then she had children, and then she just finally

791
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:10,639
decided that she just wanted to be home with their children,

792
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:17,039
but she always still yearned to play, like in my mind,

793
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:21,519
you mean my freaking, freaking, freak freak life, you know

794
00:46:21,519 --> 00:46:24,800
what I mean? Like, good Lord, yeah, I got it,

795
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,079
I got it. You know. I still was like er,

796
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:31,000
you know, like cause why why didn't I even audition

797
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:33,360
for that freaking show? You know what I mean? Like

798
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,400
nobody called me, So I go home, I pick up

799
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,360
the guitar, and I just drawn me start. I think

800
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,719
I wrote that on the yuke. Maybe it just somebody

801
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:45,880
worry about you know, I just started writing a song

802
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:50,199
and then uh yeah, and you know whatever, I got

803
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,639
some couple of bucks for it, you know, sending it

804
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,719
for the TV show. But damn, I was like, what

805
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,159
the hell? What is this? You know?

806
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: What was that TV show?

807
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:07,079
Speaker 3: Rita Rocks? Okay, Rita Rocks and Nicole she's a friend

808
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:09,760
of mine. She played the lead and she got to

809
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:10,119
sing it.

810
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:12,559
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, why, I.

811
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: Said to my attorney because there was one they wanted

812
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,199
to change lyrics in the bridge and I was so

813
00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:21,960
furious about it, like who wanted to change the lyrics? Like,

814
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,519
and I call my attorney and she's like, Kat, if

815
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,199
you give a song to a TV show or a movie,

816
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,360
you got to look at it like that's your step kid,

817
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,079
not your kid. You know, you got to be loose

818
00:47:33,159 --> 00:47:35,880
and for you. You know, they're paying you.

819
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:36,079
Speaker 2: You know.

820
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:41,679
Speaker 1: Interesting, So okay, So I just want to go back

821
00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:45,679
for a minute because there's all these little, uh little trails.

822
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:48,960
So you go back, you start getting like doing really

823
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,360
well with your acting, because then you're on er. Then

824
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,480
you did La Law after that or before that, you

825
00:47:56,519 --> 00:48:01,599
played Benny's girlfriend, you played a disabled person. You were

826
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:02,599
so good.

827
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: I feel like you were kind of at the height.

828
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: I mean probably at that point, like everybody knew your name, right,

829
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,159
it was kind of your summer at that point.

830
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 3: So remember in that interview, acting comes easy? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

831
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,199
So when did a good manager?

832
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: And then was there a point where you were like,

833
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,960
oh shit, this is getting hard?

834
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh hell yeah. So yeah, did acting job after

835
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,320
acting job. I loved it. Me and my friend Xander Berkeley,

836
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:33,920
we were on a movie together and he's like, look,

837
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,800
we got the same size resume. You know, I started

838
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,679
stacking up stuff and then he just catapulted because he

839
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,639
aged into a whole new level. I mean, that guy's

840
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:50,400
never stopped working brilliant, and I just because you know,

841
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,719
all of the former leading ladies took the character roles

842
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,760
from the character actresses. And it just got to a

843
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,280
point when I was in my late forties or whatever,

844
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:05,239
and my husband, very sweet, he sat me down. I

845
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,360
remember where I'm in the front stoop and he's like, baby,

846
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:11,880
I need you to you got to get a job.

847
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,960
And I was like, I'm trying I write my I'm

848
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,199
writing a great American novel, you know. And he's like, no, honey,

849
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:27,360
do I need you to get a real job, like what? Well,

850
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,239
I was like, I don't even know, you know, I

851
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,719
don't even know what to do. I've only acted like

852
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,360
I've literally I came down to LA and thirty days

853
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,760
in I got acting like a movie and I ended

854
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,079
up having to get a job that summer, and I

855
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:47,159
got a job for about two months at a market

856
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:50,679
research place, and then I got another movie, and then

857
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,440
I just had worked all the way, all the way,

858
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,639
all the way all forty eight.

859
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: You were teaching for a while too, though, right.

860
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,599
Speaker 3: So I went back to college at fifty and got

861
00:49:59,639 --> 00:50:03,800
my math master's degree at a program at cal State

862
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:08,519
Long Beach. They had for industry professionals to go back

863
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:11,400
to school, so I didn't get my undergraduate degree and

864
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:16,199
was able to get my master's degree, and in two

865
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,760
years I got my master's degree. Yeah, they had when

866
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,280
I this program that I was in, have they have

867
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,519
you teaching? Day one? So I went back to college

868
00:50:27,559 --> 00:50:31,400
and had a class of fifty students, wide eyed, never

869
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:36,519
acted before. And I'll tell you teaching, And I know

870
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:38,239
you've got some experience.

871
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,159
Speaker 2: I do teach, yea, but.

872
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 3: Tea experience is maybe eighty percent of the game. So

873
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,639
my standing in front of fifty students, you know, if

874
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:53,199
you were to try to connect with each one, it's

875
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,719
going to I had an hour and fifteen minutes with

876
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:01,199
these students, so I spent twenty minutes doing my attendance right,

877
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,719
because I need to, especially with acting. You want it's

878
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,800
you know, you are your instrument, you are your paintbrush, right,

879
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,280
So it behooves a professor to kind of get a

880
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,440
little bit of a handle on each student. So when

881
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,639
I took my I'd have them all sit in alphabetical

882
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,159
order according to their last names, so I could just

883
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:24,360
go from kid to kid to kid to kid to kid.

884
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:27,599
But I would have to just be like, hey you,

885
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:32,159
I see you. You know, I see you, Stephanie Wilder

886
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,599
tailor you like me to say what you know? I

887
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,000
just try to connect, like wow, here you are at school,

888
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,280
you know, just trying to make a connection with each

889
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,079
one of the students. And then I had to develop

890
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,639
a curriculum and whatever. Anyway, I just got better and

891
00:51:46,679 --> 00:51:49,599
better and better and better at teaching until finally I

892
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,239
landed my dream job. Which is acting for the camera

893
00:51:53,519 --> 00:51:58,679
up at Callarts. I just love love teaching at CalArts.

894
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 2: Isn't teaching so fun?

895
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: It is fun? You know, it's funny. It is fun.

896
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,039
I feel like saying to you, the professional writer with

897
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:12,239
books published, it's fun, you know what I mean? It

898
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:18,920
is fun as an actress. Whatever I would you know.

899
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,119
I heard it was it Ethan Hawke. I heard him,

900
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:25,199
and so he was saying, if you don't love acting

901
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:28,519
and teaching, get out of the business. He started sort

902
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:32,760
of railing about and I felt like, bitch, said the

903
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,880
guy who gets to pick and choose movies, you get

904
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,239
to tell me about teaching, motherfucker. When I had, you know,

905
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,679
I mean, I taught on the on the other coast

906
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:48,480
at an art school full of ungrateful, no talented like

907
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:55,840
the people that entitled just I mean, it was horrible

908
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,800
for me, you know what I mean. And that was

909
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,599
when I was a full time teacher. That's rough teaching

910
00:53:01,639 --> 00:53:04,760
people you know are never going to act professionally. They

911
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,360
have no talent and they're just needing a babysitting service,

912
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:12,679
you know. And and I remember seeing that Ethan Hawk

913
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,079
thing and I was like, oh, said the guy who

914
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:20,920
gets to float on stage at a SAG after you know,

915
00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:26,679
special class with Ethan Hawk, I'm like, er, you know, well,

916
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,880
I don't think teaching is rough when you have to

917
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:33,000
do it right and can be rough, and there are

918
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:37,239
beautiful moments in teaching. I love it when it goes great,

919
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,960
when it's good and you have a class the jels

920
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,039
and and like this happens at cal Arts because the

921
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:46,280
kids are so talented and you just see them just

922
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,400
like explode off the screen. They're so gifted. I mean

923
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,960
that is you know. I drive home just like, ah,

924
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:58,159
I love this kid. You know, I've seen scenes where

925
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,840
they perform so well. I'm like, wow, I can't believe

926
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:07,199
I'm in the presence of performing art. This is the

927
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:12,760
greatest thing. I love what you just did, and that's fantastic.

928
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:18,519
But for people that have attained success in their chosen

929
00:54:18,639 --> 00:54:23,239
field and then bitch at people who are struggling to

930
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,559
pay their bills and trying to do the right thing,

931
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,400
who never really got to do their thing, I have

932
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:32,519
a little bit of a problem with that, Ethan.

933
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: I think anything that you have to do full time,

934
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,639
there's going to be burnout factor.

935
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: And yeah, I.

936
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: Think I was thinking of it more as like I

937
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,519
teach memoir writing, but it's part time. It's only a

938
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:48,679
few hours every week, and I love it because all

939
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:51,079
the people that are there want to be there. So

940
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,639
I just love hearing people come up with a story

941
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,199
and like you like you at cal arts more like

942
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,800
those moments, especially if you're also doing what you love

943
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:02,639
to do exactly.

944
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 3: And you know, I got to do both, you know,

945
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,760
I get to do both. I get to teach and

946
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,039
I get to act. When I get those acting gigs

947
00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:13,599
like I did this last semester, I got to do both.

948
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:16,039
I was blessed to get to do both, and I

949
00:55:16,119 --> 00:55:20,480
felt very delighted by that, you know, and it's wonderful.

950
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:22,920
And I also feel like it gives me something to

951
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,079
actually give to the students, Like the stuff that I'm

952
00:55:26,119 --> 00:55:29,679
teaching you is stuff that I actually do, and it's

953
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,519
up to my game as an actress, because you know,

954
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:38,639
I tell my students, like, you know, there's so much

955
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,679
time in the middle of a movie set where you

956
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,760
can actually do your art, where you can actually do

957
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,440
your work, you know, while they're setting up the lights,

958
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,719
you can do the personalization with all the objects on

959
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,119
the set and get that really nice in your body,

960
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:57,559
you know, all these things. So I ended up doing

961
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:01,559
those things that I teach where prior to teaching, I

962
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:04,719
got lazy and just was like lines in the makeup chair.

963
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,880
I got it, you know what I mean. And then

964
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:10,960
this last job, I got to do all my stuff.

965
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,679
I didn't even look like myself in this I got

966
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:19,239
to transform the costume. People were so talented. It was

967
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,199
just such a blessing to be sober and present for too,

968
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,360
by the way, to recognize how lucky I was to

969
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:27,280
have that job.

970
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: So that brings me back to.

971
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 1: Two more questions. But I just want to say, so

972
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,320
you being sober, You've been sober a really long time.

973
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,760
There are a lot of people who are sober for

974
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,719
a long time and they're like at some point, usually

975
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,800
fairly early on, they're like, Okay, I got it. Like

976
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,440
I'm sober. I don't need to do a bunch of

977
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,920
stuff or help other alcoholics or any you know what

978
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,559
I mean. So what do you think is the difference

979
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,400
for you? Since you when you got sober, you stayed sober,

980
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,039
and you had a very busy, successful life. What made

981
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:15,159
you stay in recovery and like you know, active in recovery,

982
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,119
helping people like, what what do you think that was?

983
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:25,719
Speaker 3: I have seen people who stray from the program, and

984
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:34,480
the way I think dry alcoholism come alive is very

985
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:40,599
unattractive to me. It's scary, it's gross. You see people

986
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:44,639
that participated in our community and then they don't go

987
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:49,039
to meetings anymore. You see them relapse, you see them die,

988
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,119
you see them break out in the news. Because I'm

989
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:56,280
in Los Angeles and many people are in the entertainment business,

990
00:57:56,599 --> 00:58:03,559
break out in the news in drunken, horrible, humiliating, TMZ flames.

991
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:08,639
You run into them out in the world and they're

992
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,760
kind of risk, crispy, nasty, and I don't want any

993
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:18,159
of that. The other thing that I think keeps me

994
00:58:18,239 --> 00:58:24,159
in the game is I have extraordinary chef's kiss people

995
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:28,360
in my life. My best judging buddy, Jessica, my sponsor,

996
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:32,360
who I feel like gets me in my bone marrow.

997
00:58:32,679 --> 00:58:35,199
She gets me. She's not intimidated by the way I

998
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:38,119
express myself. You know, a lot of people think I'm yelling,

999
00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:41,280
and I'm not yelling at you. I'm yelling at the universe.

1000
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,760
My sponsor yells at the universe. She's a very dramatic

1001
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,320
and she gets me, you know, because I'm not trying

1002
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,039
to collaborate anybody. I'm just trying to figure it out

1003
00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:55,079
in my mind. You can tell that I'm kind of

1004
00:58:55,159 --> 00:58:59,599
like vociferous, like kind of person. So my sponsor gets

1005
00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:02,719
me have a community that I go to dinner with

1006
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,320
on Sunday nights before my speaker meeting that I picked

1007
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,199
the speakers for us. I'm very involved. I'm very involved

1008
00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:12,760
in the convention we have every year out here in

1009
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,239
the West Valley, and I last year I had wrote

1010
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:18,039
and directed a play for that, and you know, it

1011
00:59:18,239 --> 00:59:21,599
just I see people how many you know, if I

1012
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:26,920
see people standing up in front of people saying, you know,

1013
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,920
if it weren't for Kathleen, you know, like you start

1014
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,320
hearing stuff like that, it's hard to look in the

1015
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,760
mirror and go while you're a piece is It's hard

1016
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,000
to do that because you did something today, You did

1017
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:42,639
a good thing. You know, you tried your hardest, you

1018
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:45,119
tried to be of service to people. I know what

1019
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:48,000
it feels like in the struggle of how it feels

1020
00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:53,440
to have to go to that first meeting, brutal, brutal,

1021
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,079
and if I can alleviate any of that kind of pain,

1022
00:59:57,719 --> 01:00:00,079
just by virtue of the fact if I can do it,

1023
01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:02,440
you could do it, you know, if I can do

1024
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:07,760
any of that, And that's the glue, that's what keeps

1025
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,119
me going in there. Yeah, that's why I keep going.

1026
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,239
When I don't go, I start yelling at people. I

1027
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,239
start thinking, my kids are so ungrateful. Ahem. I have

1028
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,480
to do everything. If I have to do everything and

1029
01:00:20,519 --> 01:00:23,840
you do nothing, we got a big problem here. These

1030
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,039
are all things that I've said. You know, I found

1031
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:29,360
myself when I moved to the West Valley. I didn't

1032
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,440
want to go to meetings out here, and I found

1033
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,039
myself on in my backyard sort of wanting to scream

1034
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:37,800
out to the valley because I had this view to

1035
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:43,599
scream out, hello, I'm alive. You know what. I felt like,

1036
01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:49,480
I'm alive, you know, like I didn't have my normal outlet,

1037
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:52,400
which is my community. It's a huge part of my

1038
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:55,519
mental health, and I value it. I don't mess with it.

1039
01:00:55,559 --> 01:00:59,440
And I go to my regular meeting a regular meeting day,

1040
01:00:59,519 --> 01:01:02,320
and I all of that, and I sponsor people, even

1041
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,320
though there's a million other things that I might rather do.

1042
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:12,000
After I I finished working with somebody again looking in

1043
01:01:12,039 --> 01:01:15,000
the mirror at the brush of my teeth, like it's

1044
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,639
hard to feel like your a piece of garment. I

1045
01:01:17,679 --> 01:01:20,480
start feeling like, hey, maybe I did a good I'm

1046
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:21,599
not so bad, you know.

1047
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,679
Speaker 1: So let me wrap this up by asking you, by

1048
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,280
going back to the original question, I feel like we

1049
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:34,440
might have the answer. But how has being sober helped

1050
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,159
you from the time you got sober through then you

1051
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,239
all your success and then like the hard times, do

1052
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,599
you attribute sobriety to keeping you humble, keeping you serene,

1053
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,480
like through all those ups and downs of life.

1054
01:01:57,159 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: Prior to sobriety, I think I was an acquired case.

1055
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,079
I was super volatile, right, super volatile.

1056
01:02:04,639 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 2: I was a prima for everybody I know.

1057
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:10,559
Speaker 3: I was a pre madonna. There are people who think

1058
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:14,360
I'm I'm sure I used to. It was very contentious

1059
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,559
with people. You'd love to just ball people out and

1060
01:02:18,599 --> 01:02:20,960
have them look at me like I'm a psycho. Like

1061
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,519
there's a lot of really poor behavioral things that I

1062
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:29,679
exhibited prior to sobriety. And then once I stepped up

1063
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,880
onto that sober train right and started riding down those rails,

1064
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,920
where I started seeing like, oh, when you are able

1065
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:44,119
to talk about your part in a conflict. The other

1066
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,880
person can oftentimes talk about their part in the conflict.

1067
01:02:49,239 --> 01:02:52,000
And I don't need to go around balling people out.

1068
01:02:52,039 --> 01:02:57,079
Oh that works. Oh, showing up with a full heart,

1069
01:02:57,119 --> 01:03:02,559
on time, ready to go makes people respond in kind

1070
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:07,559
in a genuine and sweeter way to like, you know,

1071
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,159
I just learned all these little tid oh at five

1072
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:15,599
years of sobriety. Because I strive to have another graceful day,

1073
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,519
I end up with a guy like David Hart, Like

1074
01:03:18,639 --> 01:03:22,119
what the hell? This guy treats me like Goldie's a

1075
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:26,480
good hang. We like the same TV shows like This

1076
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:29,599
Is you know, And I'm afraid if I take a

1077
01:03:29,679 --> 01:03:38,719
drink gone, I'm back on my backyard. Hella, I'm a lot,

1078
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,599
you know. That's why when I was teaching full time

1079
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:45,800
out on a marsh and in a freaking the other

1080
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:52,679
coast and in the South, I stop going to meetings.

1081
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,159
I stopped paying attention to my sobriety. I did go

1082
01:03:57,239 --> 01:04:01,360
to a couple zoom meetings, and I found myself smoking

1083
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,840
cigarettes in my screened and porch, listening to bugs, hating

1084
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:10,199
everybody I was. You know, my students mostly just freaking

1085
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:15,159
hating them, and I felt like I could drink. No

1086
01:04:15,199 --> 01:04:18,519
one would know. I'll be sober in California. I'm not

1087
01:04:18,599 --> 01:04:21,400
going to get sober in the South. I'll drink my

1088
01:04:21,639 --> 01:04:24,639
you know, I am. And I called my sponsor and

1089
01:04:24,679 --> 01:04:27,079
she's like, I think you should come home. I called

1090
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:29,239
my husband. He's like, I said, I think I need

1091
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,679
to come home, baby, I think I could drink here.

1092
01:04:32,239 --> 01:04:35,719
I'm that unhappy. And he's like, Okay, let's just finish

1093
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,559
out the year and we'll drive home together. And I did.

1094
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:43,119
I finished out the year. I was so happy after

1095
01:04:43,199 --> 01:04:46,880
I knew I was done after that last semester, and

1096
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,639
then Dave came out and we just drove across the

1097
01:04:49,719 --> 01:04:54,559
country and we were like what listen blairing music, rock

1098
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:59,000
and roll and cruising a Memphis and you know, Oklahoma City.

1099
01:04:59,079 --> 01:05:02,079
We just had the best time driving back, and I

1100
01:05:02,199 --> 01:05:06,840
knew when I saw the mustard frickin' slog and homeless people,

1101
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,880
I was like, I'm home. And the thing I wanted

1102
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:14,239
to see the most were my eight eight people. I

1103
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,760
needed to go and be with my people. It is

1104
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,960
a huge part of my mental health.

1105
01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, this has been I don't want

1106
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:25,760
to say a treat because that sounds so like it's been.

1107
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:29,920
It's been amazing. I adore you, I adore your story,

1108
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,199
I adore your honesty. Give us all the tell us,

1109
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,800
tell us your priorities. Where where do you want people

1110
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,320
to find you? Watch the what is it? Is it

1111
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,400
called The Murder Murders. That's the series that's coming out

1112
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,159
in October? Instagram music?

1113
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: Are you? Are you putting music up on a almost

1114
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:52,519
called It's.

1115
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 3: Gonna I'm gonna do the right thing and promote.

1116
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 2: Somebod promote yourself.

1117
01:05:57,039 --> 01:05:59,519
Speaker 3: And not wonder why the universe doesn't come knocking on

1118
01:05:59,559 --> 01:06:02,199
my door having me by the lapel saying let me

1119
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:06,639
publish your manuscript, let me publish script. Yeah, because that's

1120
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:09,519
what I want to have happened. So if you're a

1121
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:13,519
publisher or literary agent, please keep knocking on my door.

1122
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:17,800
My lapels are available. You're welcome to publish my Oh.

1123
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,159
Speaker 1: If they want to come and grab you by the lapels,

1124
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:22,199
they're going to have to like follow you on Instagram

1125
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,239
first or something.

1126
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 2: So where can people find.

1127
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,559
Speaker 3: You out Instagram? I'm the real Kathleen w on Instagram. Okay,

1128
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,159
and you know I just my my online game is

1129
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,199
you know, I'm gen X like it's not great. I'm

1130
01:06:35,239 --> 01:06:38,440
on Facebook, couldn't tell you how to get there, but

1131
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,079
I friend some people. I'm at like five thousand people.

1132
01:06:42,119 --> 01:06:47,920
But oh I do a cameo. Hello, there you go

1133
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,440
find cameo. I'll sing you diity Oh.

1134
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:52,599
Speaker 2: I love that.

1135
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 3: Really my dream is too, I like to do like you.

1136
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,039
I like to write stories. So that's where in the

1137
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:04,519
acting business we say where the where the attention goes,

1138
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:07,840
the energy flow, where the energy goes, the attention flows

1139
01:07:08,159 --> 01:07:11,199
or whatever. That's what I spend my time doing. When

1140
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:13,840
I sign off of here, I'm going to clean my

1141
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,159
house for one hour and then I go back to

1142
01:07:16,239 --> 01:07:18,960
my second novel that I'm I'm writing and writing so

1143
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:22,760
and my first novel I'm sending out to different publishers

1144
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,880
and agents and stuff. So that's where my passion is today.

1145
01:07:26,159 --> 01:07:28,920
My dream is to write my way out of self tapes?

1146
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:29,719
Speaker 2: But can people?

1147
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: Can people download your music though you have a lot

1148
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,800
of songs on app, if they don't.

1149
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:38,039
Speaker 3: Have back in going, I don't even know. Maybe they can.

1150
01:07:38,159 --> 01:07:40,760
I mean sometimes I find it, but I'm not getting

1151
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:45,119
any dough from it somebody else's But maybe I'll get

1152
01:07:45,159 --> 01:07:46,880
that together. Wah.

1153
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to look forward to that.

1154
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to post some of your songs.

1155
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,719
But thank you, Kathleen, thank you super fun. I hope

1156
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,199
it's okay, it's great.

1157
01:07:57,719 --> 01:08:07,079
Speaker 3: Okay, you mean like doctors guna largest gun. Yeah, thats

1158
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:13,880
gonna lightest guning head yet in my dark It time

1159
01:08:14,199 --> 01:08:14,960
you got me