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<v Speaker 1>Day two of the twilight Zone podcast Advent Calendar, and

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<v Speaker 1>tonight we have a question from John Hayes and he says, well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a two part question. He says, if Charles Dickens

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<v Speaker 1>were to write a Twilight Zone episode, what might it

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<v Speaker 1>look like and be about? And b if Rod Sailing

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<v Speaker 1>were to rewrite a Dickens novel, what might that look like?

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<v Speaker 1>And how would it differ from the classic not counting

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<v Speaker 1>Carol for another Christmas? Okay, thank you John for a

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<v Speaker 1>great question or two questions. Emmy, I'm not a huge

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Dickens guy. I have to admit I love a

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Carol. It's one of my favorite stories of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love that there's like a million versions of

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<v Speaker 1>it and I try and you know, watch as many

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<v Speaker 1>of them as I can. But I did read a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of Dickens when I was a kid, but not

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<v Speaker 1>that I have massive memories of. But I obviously now

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<v Speaker 1>the cultural touchsdowns. What about you?

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm the same. I don't think I've actually read

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<v Speaker 2>any Dickens since I was at school, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>being British, it's kind of forced into you when you

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<v Speaker 2>do English at school. But I'm kind of aware of

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<v Speaker 2>the stories through various like osmosis and watching them and

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<v Speaker 2>just general knowledge. So my answers are kind of going

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<v Speaker 2>to come from a combination of those places. So I

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<v Speaker 2>will apologize in advance if what I say is not

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent accurate. I'm probably going to have all

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<v Speaker 2>these sort of Dickens experts coming at me, but I

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<v Speaker 2>apologize if I get anything a little bit wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry with the caveat that neither of us well

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<v Speaker 1>vested in Charles Dickens, apart from probably a Christmas Carol,

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go with party, because I haven't actually got an

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<v Speaker 1>answer for pop B myself. But Emmy knew the assignment

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<v Speaker 1>and she's done the work. She's the geek, so we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna go tens a piece. So, Emmy, if Charles Dickens

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<v Speaker 1>were to write a Twilight Down episode, what might it

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<v Speaker 1>look like and be about?

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the things that struck me when I

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<v Speaker 2>was thinking about this was actually how Charles Dickens and

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<v Speaker 2>Rod Serling both really liked a twist in the tail.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they both they both really really enjoyed sort

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<v Speaker 2>of having you believe something the entire time and then switching,

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<v Speaker 2>a switch, a rooming around it at the end. But

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<v Speaker 2>Dickens also really liked people getting their come up, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he was quite a fan of that karmic

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<v Speaker 2>justice aspect. If somebody was a really, really horrible person,

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<v Speaker 2>they generally got punished at the end of a book two.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that if Dickens ever wrote an episode,

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<v Speaker 2>it would probably be something similar to Death Has Revisited,

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<v Speaker 2>where someone's done this really horrible, heinous, as bad as

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<v Speaker 2>you could possibly do thing, thinks they've got away with

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<v Speaker 2>it for their entire life, you know, I think that

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<v Speaker 2>what they've done was right, and that actually the gods

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<v Speaker 2>has smelled upon them this entire time, and it's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>But then at the very end, just when they think

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<v Speaker 2>they've got away with it and when they least expect it,

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<v Speaker 2>the Twilight Zone kind of comes in and presents its

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<v Speaker 2>own style of justice. So I think something along those lines.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not a very specific answer, but I do think

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<v Speaker 2>that that's the thing that both of them have in common,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that that is how Charles Dickens would

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<v Speaker 2>probably write a Twilight's One episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so I've went with the only pretty much the

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<v Speaker 1>only thing that I can, because what I do know

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<v Speaker 1>about Dickens was he was very aware of the poverty

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<v Speaker 1>that existed and the difference in wealth of people. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's a very hot topic today as well. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of ripe for a twilight Zone. And I love

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<v Speaker 1>a Christmas Carol, but let us think about Ebenezer Scrooge's office.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got, you know, the people working in his office

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever asking for a lump of coal to put

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<v Speaker 1>on the fire. I probably wouldn't go with like Bob

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<v Speaker 1>Cratchett himself, maybe that's too on the nose, but like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, third guy from the left, who's just sitting

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<v Speaker 1>writing at his desk. And this guy he comes to

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<v Speaker 1>work on Christmas Day because he needs the money, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's sitting writing at his desk and he takes out

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<v Speaker 1>a pot of ink from the cupboard, and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>a you know, there's something about it, whatever that detail

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<v Speaker 1>may be. This is a very roughly sketched idea.

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<v Speaker 2>It's more detailed than my bigness. I'm enjoying it so far.

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<v Speaker 2>Keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>So he takes this pot of ink and he you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's got his quill and his piece of paper and

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<v Speaker 1>he's got a list of all the debtors in the area.

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<v Speaker 1>He you know, he's writing his list of Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>and so, ow is this much? So and so ow

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<v Speaker 1>is this much? And there's just a strange quality about

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<v Speaker 1>the writing on the on the page. And what he

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<v Speaker 1>discovers is that and this is a mechanism that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not quite aware of yet, but he needs to discover

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<v Speaker 1>that if he writes like their debt is lower, then

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<v Speaker 1>it actually becomes lower. You know, maybe he could write

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<v Speaker 1>about his own debt and you know, as a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a joke, he writes that it's zero when all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden his clothes are better, or something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. So what he does is

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<v Speaker 1>all the people that he knows in the town, he

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<v Speaker 1>reduces their debt to zero with this twilight Zone, inc

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<v Speaker 1>This is a couple of hundred people. You know, Scrooge

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<v Speaker 1>has a lot of people in his book, so it

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<v Speaker 1>could be two, three, four hundred people that he does

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<v Speaker 1>this too. And he writes it down. He writes down

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<v Speaker 1>the debt of everyone around in this squalid area of London,

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<v Speaker 1>and he thinks this is going to be great, and

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<v Speaker 1>he goes home that night there's nobody around, and he

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<v Speaker 1>comes out the next day and he thinks that the

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<v Speaker 1>streets are going to be empty because all these people

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<v Speaker 1>have no debt and their lives will have been different

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<v Speaker 1>now and they're in better places. But what he finds

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<v Speaker 1>is that the streets are just as full as they

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<v Speaker 1>wear before he'd done this, and the faces of the

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<v Speaker 1>people are slightly different. You know, it's not quite the same,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the guy on the fruit and veg stall

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<v Speaker 1>is a different guy. He might be similar, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>not the same guy anymore. And what he realizes is

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<v Speaker 1>that you can solve the problem for those people, there's

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<v Speaker 1>always going to be more poor people to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>take their place, if you like. The gap between poverty

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<v Speaker 1>and wealth is huge, and it's a system that is rigged,

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<v Speaker 1>so the cards are always stacked against you, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>so that you can pull out as many poor people

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<v Speaker 1>as you like, but there's always going to be another

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<v Speaker 1>one to replace them, because the deck is stacked against you.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why he realizes when he walks out into

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<v Speaker 1>London on Boxing day, and it's a you know, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's a bit of a sad kind of realization for him,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's my Charles Dickens Twilight. There.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is it's brilliant and depressing. That is intense.

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<v Speaker 2>But I can see it. I can see this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of this guy coming and thinking he's doing this really

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<v Speaker 2>amazing thing. And actually it doesn't necessarily change things, it

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<v Speaker 2>shifts things. I really like it.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, you're the only one who answered pop peage.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, again, my Dickens fairly limited, right, so I only

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<v Speaker 2>had maybe about a handful of stories that I knew

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<v Speaker 2>well enough to kind of tweaking to do things with.

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<v Speaker 2>But I thought that if Rod Serling were to rewrite

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<v Speaker 2>a Dickens novel, something like The Old Curiosity Shop would

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<v Speaker 2>be good. But I'd like the ending to be more ambiguous.

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<v Speaker 2>So for those who aren't as aware. In the novel,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a young girl and our grandfather. They run

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<v Speaker 2>a shop called the Old Curiosity Shop. It is a

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<v Speaker 2>very Dickenzian shop, like Victorian London. And essentially one day

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<v Speaker 2>they get booted out of their shop by this horrible

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<v Speaker 2>man and they have to travel the country to try

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<v Speaker 2>and escape the guy that took the shop from them.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's very much in a nutshell. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more to it. So there's a couple of things

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<v Speaker 2>with this. So the end is really horrible and tragic

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<v Speaker 2>when you know spoilers, Nell dies, the little girl dies

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<v Speaker 2>in it. But I have liked to more ambiguous ending

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<v Speaker 2>where we don't really know what happened because the way

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<v Speaker 2>this was written. There was a huge backlash when it

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<v Speaker 2>was published because it was done in serial form, so

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<v Speaker 2>it was kind of like watching episodes of a very

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<v Speaker 2>long drawn out story, and people had got really attached

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<v Speaker 2>to Nell and that it was probably one of the

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<v Speaker 2>first sort of big literary cliffhangers that existed in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>There were people waiting on the docks in America for

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<v Speaker 2>the newspapers and things to come from London to find

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<v Speaker 2>out what had happened. And I think that that's the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing that Rod Serling could probably, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>do very very well. I actually liked the idea of

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<v Speaker 2>him doing a long drawn out story where you're only

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<v Speaker 2>finding out about it in tiny little segments and chunks.

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<v Speaker 2>But I like the idea that he might have given

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<v Speaker 2>us a bit more of an ambiguous ending. Now we

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<v Speaker 2>know he liked a bit of a bleak ending. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>things were not always happy enjoy in the Twilight Zone.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that he probably could have done something

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<v Speaker 2>even more frustrating, you know, even instead of actually just saying, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>she died, the world's horrible, that's the end. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like rod Serling probably could have and would have given

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<v Speaker 2>us a little element of hope there where we could

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<v Speaker 2>have thought, you know, yes, the world is awful, but

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<v Speaker 2>maybe Nell escapes this horrible awfulness, unlike the book where

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<v Speaker 2>she absolutely does not. The entire the entirety of the

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<v Speaker 2>Old Curiosity Shop is just depressing moment after depressing moments,

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<v Speaker 2>so as is most Dickens. To be fair, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he wasn't a happy, jolly guy when it came to

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<v Speaker 2>what he was writing most of the time. But I

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<v Speaker 2>like that idea. I like the idea that a Rod

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<v Speaker 2>Serling could have written something that's a bit drawn out

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<v Speaker 2>and we're only finding out about it in little chunks

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<v Speaker 2>at a time, like individual chapters. I think he could

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<v Speaker 2>have pulled that off really well. And I do I

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<v Speaker 2>wish that instead of it being yeah, Nell died through

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<v Speaker 2>horrible circumstances, he had you know, almost kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>a Willoughby situation maybe where you just you don't really

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<v Speaker 2>know what's happened at the end. Has she gone to

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<v Speaker 2>a better place? Has she not? I quite like that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of magical Rod Serling spin on it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's that's beautifully pot and thankfully we've ended

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<v Speaker 1>done a more hopeful now than my Christmas Boxing Day

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<v Speaker 1>tragedy Dickens episode. Thank you, Amy, Melida