1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I'm your host, and I have 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,240 to tell you. Usually, when we sit down to record, 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,080 I have a pretty good handle on where the conversation 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,000 is going to go. We map it out, we look 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,759 at the sources, we have a plan. But today, yeah, 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,320 today we are pulling on a loose thread that might 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,480 just I mean, it might just unravel the entire tapestry 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,199 of what we think we know about our closest celestial neighbor. 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,519 Speaker 2: It is a thread that once you start pulling, you 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,039 realize it's connected to everything everything history, physics, national security, 11 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:35,000 and maybe the biggest question of all. 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,359 Speaker 1: Are we alone exactly? We're talking about the moon. You 13 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:43,240 know the moon, right, that silent, dusty, gray companion that's 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,240 been hanging out in the sky for billions of years. 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,520 It's the ultimate been there, done that location. Yeah, we 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,000 went in the sixties. We played some golf, planted a flag, 17 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:54,119 collected some rocks, and then we came home. The narrative, 18 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,479 the one we all get in school, is that it's 19 00:00:56,479 --> 00:00:57,039 a dead rock. 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,759 Speaker 3: That is the standard textbook definition. 21 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:05,079 Speaker 2: Desolate, silent witness to history, geologically inert, no atmosphere, no life, 22 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,200 no volcanic activity, it's just a mirror for the sun, 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,359 absorbing impacts and reflecting light. 24 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 3: That's the story. 25 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,879 Speaker 1: But what if that silence is actually a very a 26 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,599 very carefully constructed set of noise canceling headphones put on 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,480 the entire human race. Because the stack of documents you 28 00:01:25,519 --> 00:01:27,640 brought to the table today, and I mean a literal 29 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,439 stack of flight transcripts, photos, government reports, it suggest the 30 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,120 moon is actually quite the busy neighborhood. 31 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: It does sound like science fiction or you know, maybe 32 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,680 a screenplay for a movie. But what we're walking through 33 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,480 today isn't a collection of Internet rumors or some creepy 34 00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:43,599 pasta from a message board. Well, we're conducting a review 35 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:47,319 of a very detailed presentation by a physicist named Max 36 00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:51,760 Manley dirk Shan, which was recently hosted by the investigative journalist. 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: Ross Colfart on his show Reality Check exactly. 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,719 Speaker 2: And they haven't just speculated, they've combed through the actual 39 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:00,840 NASA archives and what they've found suggests that the Dead 40 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,799 Rock narrative might be one of the most successful bureaucratic 41 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,480 cover ups. 42 00:02:04,359 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: In human history. 43 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: The energy coming off this whole investigation is just pure 44 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:10,319 How did I not know this? 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:11,039 Speaker 2: Yeah? 46 00:02:11,439 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: We aren't talking about grainy photos of Bigfoot walking through 47 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,400 the woods here where you have to squint and guess. 48 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,560 We are talking about high resolution scans and the Apollo. 49 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:21,319 Speaker 3: Missions, the real deal. 50 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:25,759 Speaker 1: We're talking about glowing creators that defy physics, craft that 51 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,639 track our astronauts, and official NASA photos which you can 52 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,560 download right now that appear to show artificial structures and 53 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:34,919 plasma energy ships. 54 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: And the key here is to just it's to look 55 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:41,039 at the data without the filter of that's impossible. If 56 00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:43,159 you strip away that assumption that the Moon is empty, 57 00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:45,719 the data starts to paint a very very different picture. 58 00:02:45,879 --> 00:02:49,439 Speaker 1: Okay, So before we get to the aliens or secret 59 00:02:49,479 --> 00:02:52,479 Space Force or whatever they are, we have to address 60 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,360 the elephant in the room. This is the skeptic's first 61 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,879 line of defense, and honestly it's mine too. Of course, 62 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,479 if there are aliens on the Moon, why wouldn't height 63 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,879 it wouldn't that be the greatest discovery in the history 64 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:05,120 of mankind? Why would you bury that headline? 65 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 2: It is the logical first question, and to answer it, 66 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,080 we don't need to speculate about men in black. We 67 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,159 can just look at the legal and bureaucratic foundations of 68 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,800 NASA itself. Okay, there are two key documents that Ross 69 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,039 Colthart and Max Shann point to that frame this entire conversation. 70 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,439 The first one is the National Aeronautics and Space Act 71 00:03:25,479 --> 00:03:26,599 of nineteen fifty eight. 72 00:03:26,719 --> 00:03:28,439 Speaker 1: Nineteen fifty eight, Okay, so this is right at the 73 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:31,840 birth of the agency. Sputnak has just happened. Everyone is 74 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,120 panicking about the Soviets. 75 00:03:33,199 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: Correct. 76 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: We tend to think of NASA as this benevolent agency 77 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:41,280 of science. You know, guys in shortsleeved shirts with pocket protectors, 78 00:03:41,319 --> 00:03:44,800 just wanting to explore Reik stuff. Guys, exactly. But NASA 79 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:47,560 was created essentially as an arm of the Department of Defense. 80 00:03:47,719 --> 00:03:50,759 It was a Cold War strategic asset. And the Space 81 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,919 Act of fifty eight makes it very clear any discoveries 82 00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:57,280 made in space exploration that have implications for national security 83 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,439 can be and must be classified. 84 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: Implications for national security. That's a pretty broad. 85 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,639 Speaker 2: Brush, incredibly broad The administrator of NASA, along with the 86 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,280 Secretary of Defense and the President, has the authority to 87 00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:10,680 withhold that information from Congress and the public. 88 00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:15,479 Speaker 1: So wait, legally speaking, if Neil Armstrong stepped off that 89 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:19,360 ladder and shook hands with the Martian, or found a hidden. 90 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:21,759 Speaker 2: Soviet base, or found a resource that could build a 91 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:22,399 super wepon. 92 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: NASA would be breaking the law if they did tell us, 93 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:26,959 assuming they decided it was a. 94 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: Threat, precisely, they would be legally obligated to classify it. 95 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: So the transparency we all expect from NASA it was 96 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:37,199 never actually promised. It was conditional from. 97 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: Day one exactly. 98 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,199 Speaker 2: But that just explains the legal mechanism. 99 00:04:40,199 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: It doesn't explain the motive. 100 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:44,959 Speaker 2: I mean, why would finding life be a national security threat? 101 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:49,399 And that brings us to the second document, the Brookings 102 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,879 Report of nineteen sixty. 103 00:04:51,079 --> 00:04:53,399 Speaker 1: I've heard of this. This was commissioned by NASA, right 104 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,079 They paid for this study right after its creation. 105 00:04:56,319 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: They commissioned the Brookings Institution to study the implications of 106 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:03,920 peace full space activities. Essentially, they asked a very simple question, 107 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,000 what happens to society if we actually find something? 108 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:11,519 Speaker 1: And one of the sections dealt specifically with finding extraterrestrial life. 109 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,600 It did and what was the verdict? Did they think 110 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:14,600 we throw a parade? 111 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,079 Speaker 2: The conclusion was stark. They predicted that evidence of extraterrestrial 112 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,959 life could cause and this is a direct quote, unpredictable 113 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:27,120 and potentially catastrophic ramifications for societal. 114 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: Stability, social collapse. 115 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:29,319 Speaker 3: Pretty much. 116 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: They were worried about the glue that holds society together. 117 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:36,480 They feared religious institutions would crumble because their creation narratives 118 00:05:36,519 --> 00:05:37,240 would be challenged. 119 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if we're not God's special. 120 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,319 Speaker 2: Creation, the whole thing falls apart for some people. They 121 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,560 worried scientific paradigms would be overturned overnight, leading to a 122 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,160 loss of authority for experts. The general social order might 123 00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:53,240 just disintegrate under the shock of realizing we aren't the 124 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,160 apex predators of the universe. 125 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:58,439 Speaker 1: So the recommendation was basically, don't tell the kids. 126 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: The recommendation was that the government should seriously consider withholding 127 00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:05,160 such information to prevent that collapse. 128 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: It's so paternalistic, isn't it. Yeah, we're being created like 129 00:06:08,199 --> 00:06:13,000 children for our own protection. That's the motive for silence. 130 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,240 It's not necessarily malicious, it's preservation. 131 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,319 Speaker 3: From their perspective. 132 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,639 Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty absolutely, I mean, you have the nuclear threat, 133 00:06:21,879 --> 00:06:25,439 the Cold War, silvil rights movements are starting to bubble up. 134 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,319 Speaker 3: The world was already fragile. 135 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: Adding aliens to the mix might have just been the 136 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:31,560 straw that broke the camel's back. 137 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:33,879 Speaker 1: It makes a twisted kind of sense. If you think 138 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,160 the world is a powder keg, you don't hand everyone matches. Yeah, okay, 139 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,639 so we've established the motive and the means. Now let's 140 00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:45,199 look at what's slipped through the cracks, because apparently even 141 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,800 with the best sensors in the world, things get messy. 142 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,879 Let's start with the Aristarkis anomaly. 143 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: The Aristarkis Crater. This is one of the brightest formations 144 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,000 on the Moon. If you look at the Moon with 145 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 the telescope, it's that really bright spot you see in 146 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,079 the northwest. Okay, and this case is fascinating because it 147 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,600 involves multiple independent witnesses and it spans centuries actually. But 148 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,759 the key event, the one we're focusing on, starts in July. 149 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: Nineteen sixty nine, the big one. 150 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: Right as Apollo eleven is approaching the Moon for the 151 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:14,399 first landing. 152 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,079 Speaker 1: So Armstrong and Aldron are in the command module. They're 153 00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:20,839 getting ready for history. But before they land, something happens 154 00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:21,519 back on Earth. 155 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,759 Speaker 2: Right, German astronomers looking through their telescopes report a strange 156 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:30,680 light coming from the Aristarkis Crater, a strange light, a 157 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,079 bright flashing or glowing coming from inside it. Now, this 158 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,959 is a massive crater about forty kilometers wide and. 159 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,639 Speaker 1: Very deep, so it's not a small thing. 160 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,959 Speaker 2: No, and NASA gets wind of this, and interestingly, they 161 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,240 don't ignore it. They actually radio Apollo eleven. 162 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: I love how casual that is. Hey, Apollo eleven, while 163 00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:50,399 you're in the neighborhood, can you swing by and check 164 00:07:50,399 --> 00:07:53,000 out that glowing crater for us, like it's a roadside attraction, 165 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:53,800 And they did. 166 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: Neil Armstrong looks down and you have to remember, at 167 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,560 this specific time, the Aristarkis crater is in shadow. It's 168 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,879 on the dark side of the terminator line. 169 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:07,279 Speaker 1: Okay, just to clarify for everyone listening, the terminator line 170 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:10,120 is that border between day and night on the Moon exactly. 171 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,800 So if it's on the dark side of that line, 172 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,120 it should be pitch black. Maybe a little earthshine reflecting 173 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,879 off it, but mostly just black. 174 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,279 Speaker 2: It should be dead dark. But Armstrong confirms to Houston 175 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,680 that there is an area considerably more illuminated than the surroundings, 176 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:28,959 and then he uses a very specific word. He describes 177 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,680 it as having a fluorescence. 178 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: Fluorescence that's a scientific term, that's not a reflection. That 179 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,519 implies it's generating its own light. 180 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:40,039 Speaker 2: It implies an energy source. Buzz Algen confirmed it as well. 181 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: He saw it too. 182 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: Now, scientifically, this is a massive problem. Like we said, 183 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,000 the Moon is supposed to be dead. A crater shouldn't glow, 184 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,519 It shouldn't have a fluorescence. 185 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: So what was NASA's explanation. They must have had some 186 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,200 debunker story ready to go. You can't just leave a 187 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,759 glowing crater unexplained. 188 00:08:55,919 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: Well, over the years, they've thrown everything at the wall 189 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,759 to see what sticks. They suggest it was trapped gases 190 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:05,720 escaping from beneath the crust, a phenomenon they call outgasing, okay, 191 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:09,360 Or maybe lunar dust getting electrically charged by solar wind 192 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,519 and levitating, catching the sunlight in a weird way levitation. 193 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: Or and this was another one. 194 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: Perhaps radioactive decay from Raydon to twenty two, which is 195 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,080 a remnant of ancient volcanic activity radon gas. 196 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: Okay, does any of that hold water? I mean, can 197 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,720 radon gas make a forty kilometer crater glow so bright 198 00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:31,000 you can see it from Germany? 199 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:31,519 Speaker 2: Not? 200 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: Really, that's the issue. 201 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: None of those theories account for the intensity of the 202 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,919 light or the specific bluish white color that was observed. Right, 203 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,440 Raydon decay doesn't look like a spotlight, and Max Manley 204 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,879 dirk Shan points out that these observations go way back centuries. 205 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:49,559 Even astronomers in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries reported seeing 206 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,679 red glowing spots and mists in aristarchis. 207 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:53,759 Speaker 3: It's a recurring thing. 208 00:09:54,159 --> 00:09:56,879 Speaker 1: It sounds like investigating this was a dangerous career move. Though. 209 00:09:57,039 --> 00:09:59,919 The presentation you mentioned talked about a professor Peter Schultz, 210 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,399 Brown University, Yes. 211 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,279 Speaker 2: A highly respected lunar geologist. He revealed to Max in 212 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,919 a private correspondence that back in the seventies, investigating lunar 213 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,720 transient phenomena, which is the fancy term for. 214 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: These lights, the official term for glowing stuff. 215 00:10:14,919 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: On the moon, right, it was taboo. He mentioned two 216 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:21,240 scientists Middlehurst and Cameron, who are effectively pressured out of 217 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,840 their jobs or into retirement for looking into it too deeply. 218 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: That is wild. You're a scientist at a scientific agency, 219 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,559 you see a glowing light on the moon, and you 220 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,159 get fired for asking why is it glowing? That just 221 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,279 screams cover up. It suggests they didn't want the answer 222 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,639 found or at least they didn't want to found publicly. 223 00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:43,000 It's like being a meteorologist and getting fired for pointing 224 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,879 out there's a tornado. 225 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,519 Speaker 2: And we have visual evidence now that seems to validate 226 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,279 those old observations. The Clementine mission, which was much later 227 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,039 in the nineties, took these multi spectral photos of Aristarkis okay, 228 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,919 and when you look at the data, we see this 229 00:10:56,039 --> 00:11:00,120 extremely bright, bluish white glow. And what's crucial is it's 230 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:02,720 the spectrum data. It wasn't just glowing in visible light. 231 00:11:02,799 --> 00:11:06,480 It was also glowing in ultraviolet. Means that implies a 232 00:11:06,519 --> 00:11:08,639 significant active energy source. 233 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 3: It's not just a flashlight reflection. It's a power source. 234 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:12,279 It's active. 235 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,519 Speaker 1: And speaking of power sources and well artificial things, let's 236 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:19,039 talk about the entrance. This is the part of the 237 00:11:19,039 --> 00:11:21,679 presentation that made me stop and rewind the video three times. 238 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: This is a discovery made by independent researchers using more 239 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,000 recent data from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the. 240 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 4: Lro SO super high res maps incredibly high res and 241 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,639 when you zoom in on the wall of the Aristarkus 242 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,519 crater near the floor, there is a structure. 243 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,159 Speaker 1: We say structure, but rocks can look like castles if 244 00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:44,480 you squint hard enough. I mean, we've all seen the 245 00:11:44,759 --> 00:11:46,679 face on Mars that turned out to be just a hill. 246 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 3: This is different. 247 00:11:47,879 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: This looks strikingly artificial because of the geometry. It has 248 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,200 a U shaped top arch and what looks like a 249 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,320 square like entrance beneath. 250 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,919 Speaker 1: It, a square entrance. Nature doesn't really do squares, does it, 251 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,759 especially not perfect squares carved into a cliff face. 252 00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: Not typically, No, especially not with this level of precision. 253 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,639 And the scale of this thing is immense max estimates 254 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,879 it somewhere between fifty and two hundred meters wide. 255 00:12:13,919 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: Two hundred meters that's massive. That's like two football fields 256 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,159 laid endy in. You could fly a jumbo jet into that. 257 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,360 You could, or I guess a saucer. 258 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:22,799 Speaker 3: Or a saucer. 259 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,159 Speaker 2: It's large enough for a capital ship or a very 260 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,279 large vehicle to enter. And it defies the natural erosion 261 00:12:28,279 --> 00:12:31,679 patterns you'd expect on a crater wall. Usually wall slump, 262 00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:35,879 they crumble. This looks reinforced, it looks constructed, and yet 263 00:12:36,039 --> 00:12:38,159 NASA has never once commented on it. 264 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: Well, of course not because if you comment on the 265 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,120 giant garage door and the crater. You have to explain 266 00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:45,960 who parked the car. It's just easier to ignore it 267 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,799 and hope nobody zooms in. But if there is a garage, 268 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,159 there must be traffic. 269 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:50,519 Speaker 2: Hmm. 270 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,399 Speaker 1: Okay, let's move from the surface into orbit. We're going 271 00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:56,159 to the moon pitcheons. 272 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: It sounds so innocuous, doesn't It. 273 00:12:57,919 --> 00:13:01,039 Speaker 1: Sounds cute like, oh, look a little spaced, but the 274 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,440 reality is way creepier. This starts with Apollo sixteen and 275 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,360 the astronaut Ken Maddingly. 276 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: Right, So picture the scene. It's nineteen seventy two. Ken 277 00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:13,080 Mattingly is the command module pilot. He's orbiting the Moon 278 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:15,759 all by himself while the other two are on the surface. 279 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,799 He's circling the dark side. 280 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: That has to be the loneliest place in the entire universe. 281 00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:23,480 You are totally cut off from Earth radio. It's just you, 282 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,320 the hum of the ship and the. 283 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,879 Speaker 2: Blackness, complete darkness. Earthshine doesn't reach the dark side of 284 00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:31,960 the Moon. And in that darkness he reports seeing a 285 00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:34,039 flash on the surface below him. 286 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,039 Speaker 1: Now, normally a flash just means a meteor hit right, 287 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,879 The Moon gets pelted by little rocks all the time. 288 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:43,399 Speaker 2: That's the standard assumption. So Mission control tells him, okay, 289 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,840 next time you see it, mark the time exactly right. 290 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:49,320 They had placed these very sensitive seismometers on the surface 291 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:52,720 during previous missions. If a meteor hits the ground shakes, 292 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,440 the seismometer. 293 00:13:53,879 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 3: Picks it up. 294 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,799 Speaker 2: Simple physics, impact equals vibration. 295 00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: So Mattingly goes back around on his next orbit. Does 296 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:02,320 he see it again? 297 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 3: He sees two more flashes. 298 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,519 Speaker 2: He marks the times perfectly. He's a test pilot. These 299 00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:09,840 guys are incredibly precise. But when they check the seismometer data, 300 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,240 nothing nothing, absolute silence. 301 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: Not a tremor, no impact. So it wasn't a rock 302 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,480 hitting the ground. Yeah, I rock hitting the ground hard 303 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,320 enough to make a visible flash from orbit has to 304 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,080 shake the ground. 305 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: That's just physics, exactly. So if there's no shake, it 306 00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:26,759 wasn't a kinetic impact. It was a light turning on, 307 00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:30,840 or maybe a directed energy discharge of some kind. NASA 308 00:14:30,919 --> 00:14:34,679 had no official explanation, maddingly never spoke publicly about it 309 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,440 in any detail. But here is the smoking gun that 310 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,000 Max and Ross revealed, a NASA internal report from nineteen seventy. 311 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,039 The document itself the title of the report is Moon 312 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:51,080 Pigeons and Other unidentified visual phenomena associated with spaceflight. 313 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: Moon pigeons, So that was their code name, that was 314 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,039 the official internal jargon it was. 315 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:00,519 Speaker 2: The report explicitly states that these were unidentified objects seen 316 00:15:00,559 --> 00:15:03,200 in operational photography that defied positive ID. 317 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: So this proves it. This proves NASA wasn't dismissing these 318 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,279 sightings as hallucinations or eye floaters or pilot fatigue exactly. 319 00:15:12,559 --> 00:15:14,919 Speaker 2: They took them seriously enough to create a code name 320 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,639 and write classified internal reports about them. They knew there 321 00:15:17,639 --> 00:15:19,799 were things flying around up there that weren't ours. 322 00:15:19,639 --> 00:15:21,879 Speaker 1: And weren't Russian either, because I know people will say, oh, 323 00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:22,240 it's the. 324 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: Soviets, that's always the go to debunk, but the Russians 325 00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:30,919 did have unmanned rovers like the lunocod. However, the movements described, 326 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,519 and specifically the video footage shown in the presentation do 327 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:37,799 not match the capabilities of nineteen seventies Soviet hardware. 328 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 3: There's a video clip. 329 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: Max analyzes where you see a shadow racing across the 330 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:45,080 lunar surface and as it passes a crater, a flash 331 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,440 appears from inside the crater. 332 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: That video is chilling. You see the shadow moving, It 333 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:51,720 is moving fast and then pop a light from the creator. 334 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,799 It looks like the signal. 335 00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:54,679 Speaker 3: Or defense mechanism. 336 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:56,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, like a motion sensor light turning. 337 00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: On or communication attempt I see you. 338 00:15:59,480 --> 00:15:59,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. 339 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,159 Speaker 2: It implies an intelligent response to the object moving overhead. 340 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,799 A Soviet rover couldn't do that. It didn't have the 341 00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,240 speed or the coordination for that kind of responsive action. 342 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,399 Speaker 1: It really feels like an automated system. Yeah, or a 343 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,840 century Okay, we have to talk about the man himself 344 00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:15,919 now was Aldrin because his story, well, his story is 345 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:19,960 a tangled web of contradictions, silence, and then these sudden confessions. 346 00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:22,919 Speaker 2: The buzz Aldron enigma is one of the most frustrating 347 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,519 and compelling aspects of this entire inquiry. It centers on 348 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:29,559 an incident during Apollo eleven. Three days into the flight. 349 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,759 They are on their way to the Moon and that 350 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,519 void between Earth and Luna, and the crew. 351 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,879 Speaker 1: Asks Houston for the location of the S four to 352 00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:39,559 B rocket stage, the part of the ship they had 353 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,519 jettisoned earlier. 354 00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:43,519 Speaker 2: Right they wanted to know where their trash was. Essentially, 355 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,919 Houston comes back and says, it's six thousand miles away. 356 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: So it's gone. It's nowhere. Near them. It should be 357 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,399 a speck in the distance, in visible at all. 358 00:16:51,559 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: But the crew is looking out the window and they 359 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,919 see an object right there traveling alongside them, close enough 360 00:16:56,919 --> 00:16:57,720 to see it structure. 361 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,879 Speaker 1: But they can't just radio Houston and say UFO off 362 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:02,279 the starboard bow, can they? 363 00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 2: No? And Buzz Aldrin explained this years later. He said 364 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,279 they were terrified that if they said aliens or UFO, 365 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,039 the mission would be aborted. Of course, they'd be pulled back, 366 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,440 or they'd be public panic, or they'd be deemed mentally 367 00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:18,680 unfit to continue. So they played it cool. They asked 368 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,680 about the S four B to confirm it wasn't that, 369 00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:23,519 and once they knew their rocket stage was six thousand 370 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,319 miles away, they knew the object right next to them 371 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,960 was well unidentified. 372 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,519 Speaker 1: Mike Collins, the pilot, he got a good look at 373 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:31,920 it through the telescope on board. 374 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:32,319 Speaker 3: Yes. 375 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 2: He described it as having a series of ellipses, and 376 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,839 when he sharpened the focus it looked L shaped. 377 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: L shape. That is not a rock, That is not 378 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,000 an ice crystal or a gas cloud. That is a 379 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,839 structure that sounds like aerodynamics or space dynamics. 380 00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,599 Speaker 2: I guess, And here's where The contradiction begins in a 381 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,319 two thousand and five interview which was shown in the presentation. 382 00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,640 Buzz clearly admits they saw something cracking them, and he 383 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,079 describes this L shaped object. He's very open about it, okay, 384 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,559 But in later years he completely the script. He started 385 00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:03,759 claiming it was just a panel from the rocket adapter, 386 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,880 one of the four panels at peel Off. He called 387 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,079 it the ninety nine point nine percent explanation. 388 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: Why the flip flop? I mean two thousand and five, 389 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,480 buzz says L shaped craft twenty fifteen Buzzy's rocket panel. 390 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,440 Did he just forget or was he reminded of the rules. 391 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: It's speculative, of course, but you have to understand the 392 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,079 pressure these men are under. They are national heroes, there 393 00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:26,200 are statues of them, but they are also military men 394 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:29,799 bound by oaths and secrecy orders. And the story of 395 00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:33,319 the filmmaker James Fox really highlights this pressure. 396 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: This is the story about the interview in Monaco. I 397 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,079 found this part actually quite sad. 398 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,319 Speaker 2: It is James Fox, who is a very well known 399 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,559 documentary filmmaker on this topic, or ranges to interview Buzz 400 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:46,680 Aldrin in Monaco. 401 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 3: He travels all the way there. 402 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: Buzz agrees it's all set, and then at the last minute, 403 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,039 Buzz gets. 404 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: A phone call and cancels the interview. 405 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:55,559 Speaker 1: Who made the call, according to. 406 00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:57,839 Speaker 3: Fox, Buzz said it was Paul Allen. 407 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: The billionaire Microsoft co founder. 408 00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:04,319 Speaker 2: He was funding SETI, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence at 409 00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:07,079 the time, and apparently Alan didn't want to be associated 410 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,680 with what he called UFO quackery while trying to be 411 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,799 taken seriously by mainstream science. Wow, Buzz was told essentially, 412 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,440 don't talk to the UFO guy. 413 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:18,559 Speaker 1: That is just heartbreaking. You have the man who walked 414 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:20,599 on the moon, one of the most famous people on Earth, 415 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,599 being silenced by a billionaire investor because it's bad for PR. 416 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,839 Speaker 2: It just shows that the censorship isn't always government men 417 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,480 in sunglasses. Sometimes it's just funding and reputation management. 418 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,039 Speaker 1: But James Fox didn't stop there. He went to Buzz's family. 419 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: He did. 420 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: He interviewed Buzz's sister, fey Anne Potter, and what she 421 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:43,319 told him was explosive. She claimed that Buzz had confided 422 00:19:43,319 --> 00:19:46,640 in her about two specific events. One was from his 423 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,279 time as a fighter pilot in the Korean War era 424 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:52,440 before the space program. She said he told her he 425 00:19:52,519 --> 00:19:54,960 was chased by a disc while flying a jet. She 426 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,680 said he was physically shaking when he. 427 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 3: Called her about it. 428 00:19:57,519 --> 00:20:00,839 Speaker 1: Chased by a disc. That's a classic UFO encounter story. 429 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,119 And the second event. 430 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: The second was about the Moon mission. She claimed Buzz 431 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,680 told her that something followed them to the Moon, not 432 00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:08,880 just for a few minutes, but for. 433 00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:09,519 Speaker 3: A day or two. 434 00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:11,599 Speaker 1: The day or two. Can you imagine that you're in 435 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:13,680 a tiny tin can, You're looking out the window for 436 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,559 forty eight hours, and you're seeing an alien craft just 437 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,240 pacing you, watching you. 438 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 2: It creates a tremendous psychological burden. And this aligns with 439 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,680 what Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo fourteen astronaut. 440 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: Told sources. 441 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: Mitchell was much more open about his beliefs in later life. 442 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,480 He said that admitting what they saw would be considered treason. 443 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,519 Speaker 1: Treason that is such a heavy heavy word it employs. 444 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,759 They aren't just hiding scientific data, they are hiding a 445 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:42,480 state secret of the highest order. 446 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: It reframes the whole thing. 447 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:47,279 Speaker 1: It's not lying to the public, it's protecting the state. 448 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 3: Exactly. 449 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: If the presence of non human intelligence is classified at 450 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,680 the highest level of national security, higher than the atomic bomb. 451 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,000 Then revealing it is a crime. These men were patriot. 452 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:03,079 If they were told that revealing this would cause panic 453 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,880 or collapse society, as the Brookings Report suggested, they would 454 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:06,400 keep the secret. 455 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,759 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate soldier's duty, taking the grenade for society. 456 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,119 MM tragic. Really, they went further than any humans in history, 457 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,599 saw the most amazing things, and were forced to take 458 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,720 it to the grave. But they couldn't scrub everything. And 459 00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:21,000 this is where Max, mainly Dirk Shan's work gets really 460 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:23,799 technical and frankly, really undeniable. 461 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 2: The photos, this is the core of the new evidence, 462 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:30,519 and I want to be clear for everyone listening. Max 463 00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:32,839 didn't just look at the famous pictures of the astronauts 464 00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:33,640 saluting the flag. 465 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: He looked at the black sky. 466 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,839 Speaker 1: The parts of the photo where nothing is supposed to be, 467 00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:39,519 just empty black space. 468 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:40,279 Speaker 3: Precisely. 469 00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: In the digital age, we can take these high resolution 470 00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:46,640 scans of the original Kodak ectochrome film. These are raw 471 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,359 files from the NASA archives, and we can use software 472 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,359 to brighten the dark areas. We can change the contrast curve, 473 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,319 and when you do that to the pitch black sky, 474 00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:55,359 things appear. 475 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: Things. The film emulsion captured, but the human eye might 476 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,200 miss on a printed photo exactly. Let's walk through the 477 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,480 specific example. Start with the Paul eleven frame as eleven 478 00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:06,720 forty five nine three eight. 479 00:22:07,319 --> 00:22:09,839 Speaker 2: So at first glance, it's a standard picture. You see 480 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,200 rocks shadows the lunar surface. But when Max zooms into 481 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,759 the black sky and adjusts the brightness, he reveals a 482 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:18,680 trio of lights in a perfect triangular formation. 483 00:22:18,759 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: A triangle in nineteen sixty nine. Now, the first thing 484 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,920 skeptics will say is lens flare. 485 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: And Max addresses that directly. Lens flares are internal reflections 486 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,279 in the camera glass. They usually take the shape of 487 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:34,279 the aperture, often hexagonal or linear, and crucially, if the 488 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:37,279 camera moves, the lens flare moves relative to the frame. 489 00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:41,039 These lights look like a physical object with a fixed position. 490 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,759 They have bluish and reddish hues. This looks like a 491 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:46,440 craft hovering over the horizon. 492 00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:50,319 Speaker 1: Okay, that's creepy. But the next one, the Apollo twelve 493 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,640 plasma egg that sounded like something straight out of a 494 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,400 sci fi novel. 495 00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: This one is visually stunning. 496 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:58,319 Speaker 2: Again, you have the astronaut on the surface, the black 497 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,960 sky behind him, but in the upper there is a 498 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,319 very bright luminous object. It's not a point of light 499 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,519 like a star. It has a distinct shape. It's egg shaped. 500 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: Or cylindrical, and it's glowing. 501 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,319 Speaker 2: It appears to have a bluish innercore, possibly plasma. And 502 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,599 what's fascinating is that it looks like it's leaving a 503 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:16,880 trail or a contrail. 504 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: Wait a second, a contrail on the Moon. There's no atmosphere. 505 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,720 How do you have a contrail? A jet on Earth 506 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,960 leaves a trail because hot exhaust hits cold air and 507 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,359 condenses in a vacuum. That doesn't happen. 508 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:27,519 Speaker 3: That's the anomaly. 509 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: In a vacuum, you can't have a condensation trail. However, 510 00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:35,480 if a craft is ejecting mass for propulsion, like an 511 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,680 ion drive or a chemical rocket, you might see the 512 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,759 ejecta reflecting sunlight, okay, or if it's interacting with the 513 00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:46,519 electromagnetic field in a way we don't understand. But conventional 514 00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:50,720 physics says that shouldn't be there. And it can't be 515 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,160 the command module because the shape is all wrong, and 516 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,960 the command module doesn't glow like a neon sign. 517 00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:57,799 Speaker 1: And it can't be a satellite because it would just 518 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:01,319 be a tiny dot. This thing looks But the one 519 00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:04,680 that really blew my mind was the Apollo seventeen metallic cruiser. 520 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: This one is the most detailed. The photo was taken 521 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,559 from the lunar rover. You can actually see the rover 522 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,799 tracks on the ground. 523 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,799 Speaker 1: So we know the perspective. 524 00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 2: Yes, in the sky, there are two distinct objects. The 525 00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:18,440 larger one is described as a greenish bluish metallic structure. 526 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:20,279 Speaker 1: Metallic, so we're actually seeing a hult. 527 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,039 Speaker 2: It has a bright sheen reflecting the sun. But more 528 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:25,400 than that, it appears to be enveloped in a casing 529 00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:27,880 or a field of some kind. And again it has 530 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,960 a contrail or an exhaust. 531 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: Jet, a force field. What you're saying, that's. 532 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:35,319 Speaker 2: What it looks like, an energy field surrounding a metallic craft. 533 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,480 The description max gives greenish bluish metallic with a contrail, 534 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:45,160 implies a technology that uses propulsion or energy generation, completely 535 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,319 foreign to nineteen seventy's human capability, and. 536 00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: Appall, seventeen was the last mission. We never went back 537 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,440 after that. 538 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 3: That's right. 539 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: You have to wonder if seeing cruisers like that floating 540 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,400 around contributed to the decision to stop. 541 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: Hey guys, maybe we should stop playing in the traffic exactly. 542 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,839 Speaker 1: We are out gunned. Let's go home. But it's not 543 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,960 just that the photos show things. It's that some photos 544 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,200 show nothing where things should be. We have to talk 545 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,079 about the tampering. 546 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,039 Speaker 2: This is what Max calls the tail of two archives, 547 00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:14,200 and this is where the cover. 548 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 3: Up becomes clumsy. 549 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: He compared scans of the same photo frame from different 550 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,759 NASA centers. For example, he looked at an Apollo twelve 551 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,880 image from the Marshall Space Flight Center archive versus one 552 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,599 from the Lunar and Planetary Institute archive. 553 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,079 Speaker 1: And they were different. 554 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 3: The same photo significantly different. 555 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: Scan A, the Marshall scan from two thousand and nine 556 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,640 shows some debris in the sky, but Scan B from 557 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,160 another archive has what Max calls blocky cutouts. 558 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: What do you mean cutouts? 559 00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:46,599 Speaker 2: Literal square chunks of the image are blacked out, and 560 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,440 there are these strange blue lines cutting across the image. 561 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,839 Speaker 1: So someone literally took a digital sharpie or an analog 562 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,160 one back in the day and just scribbled out the UFOs. 563 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:57,759 Speaker 3: It looks like a redaction effort. 564 00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: But because different archives were digitized it tooferent times by 565 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,880 different people, they weren't consistent. One archive has the clean 566 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,960 version and the other has the obviously censored version. 567 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: It's proof of human intervention. 568 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: It's the inconsistency that catches them. If you're going to 569 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,279 cover something up, you have to cover it up everywhere. 570 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,200 And then there's the Apollo fourteen blue cutout with edgar Mitchell. 571 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,599 Speaker 2: This is a photo of edgar Mitchell on the surface 572 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:23,960 in the sky. There is this bizarre blue shape. And 573 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,039 when you compare older scans from the nineties to newer 574 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:30,200 scans from twenty fifteen, the blue cutout is still there. 575 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: What does it look like. 576 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: It looks like something was physically taped over on the 577 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,200 original negative or and Mac speculates this could be a possibility. 578 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:39,559 Speaker 3: Perhaps it was a leak. 579 00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 2: Maybe a technician intentionally left an anomaly in the scan 580 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,799 or processed it in a way that highlighted it, hoping 581 00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:47,680 someone would find. 582 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: It later, a silent whistleblower. I can't tell you what 583 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,759 I saw, but I can lead the tape on the 584 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:53,759 negative for you to find. 585 00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:57,839 Speaker 2: It's a plausible theory. When you see these blocky structures 586 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,240 and these cutouts, it's really hard to argue it's a 587 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:02,920 camera glitch. It looks like deliberate obfuscation. 588 00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: But the cover up isn't just ancient history from the seventies. 589 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,799 Ross Colthart told a story from twenty twenty three. Yes, 590 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,559 this one gave me chills because it brings it right 591 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:13,480 into the present day. 592 00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 2: Yes, Ross was visiting the Marshall Space Center in Alabama. 593 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,160 He was there as a VIP. The administrator is giving 594 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,519 a talk and behind him there's a giant screen showing 595 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:24,960 the live feed from the International Space Station. 596 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: The live feed real time, just the Earth spinning below. 597 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 2: While the administrator is talking, Ross notices something on the screen. 598 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,079 He sees eight or nine egg shaped objects moving information 599 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,519 from behind the space station information. 600 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's not space chunk. Space junk tumbles randomly. 601 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,160 Formation implies control precisely. 602 00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 2: So Ross interrupts the administrator. He points at the screen 603 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,680 and asks, is that a Starlink launch? You know, a 604 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,799 reasonable question. Starlink satellites move. 605 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,799 Speaker 1: In lines, and what did the administrator do? 606 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 3: He froze. 607 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 2: He didn't answer, He just looked at a staff member, 608 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,680 the acting director on the floor, and almost instantly the feed. 609 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:04,559 Speaker 1: Was cut, cut to black, cut to. 610 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:09,599 Speaker 2: The temporary transmission interrupted screen, the blue screen. Ross says, 611 00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:12,680 the administrator never explained it, He just awkwardly moved on 612 00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:13,400 with his speech. 613 00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: That is the blue screen of death for transparency. It 614 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,160 proves that the protocols are still in place. If something 615 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,279 shows up on the feed, you cut the feed. 616 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: It is happening right now today. 617 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:26,599 Speaker 1: It reinforces the idea that this is an ongoing operational 618 00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:28,680 security issue. It's not just about what happened on the 619 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,920 Moon in nineteen sixty nine, it's about what is happening 620 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,599 in Earth orbit right nowt Okay, Let's just let's try 621 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,000 to wrap our heads around all this. We've covered so much. 622 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,440 We have the Aristarkis crater glowing like a Neon sign 623 00:28:39,559 --> 00:28:43,200 and hiding a mass of garage door. We have moon pigeons, 624 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,440 lights and shadows tracking our ships with official NASA code names. 625 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,759 We have buzz Aldrin seeing l shaped craft and then 626 00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:54,039 being silenced by billionaires and trees and threats. We have 627 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,759 photos showing triangular lights, plasma eggs, metallic cruisers with what 628 00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,799 looked like force fields. And then we have UM reaction 629 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,279 marks on the official film. 630 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: When you lay it all out like that, the dead 631 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,880 rock theory really starts to crumble, doesn't it. The sheer 632 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,759 volume of anomalies, and specifically the consistency of them is 633 00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:12,799 what is so convincing. 634 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: The recurring patterns, the. 635 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,559 Speaker 2: Recurring blue lights, the recurring triangular formations, and the recurring 636 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,680 reaction from NASA, which is always silence or obfuscation. 637 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: It really makes you angry, doesn't it. I mean, we 638 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,400 paid for this, the American taxpayer funded Apollo, that film, 639 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,680 those photos, that data. It belongs to the world, it 640 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,680 belongs to us. But we're still being treated according to 641 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,880 that nineteen sixty Brookings report, they think we can't handle 642 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,319 the truth. 643 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: And that is the crux of the issue. The protection 644 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,480 has become a barrier to progress. If there is an 645 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:49,920 active presence on the Moon, whether it's extraterrestrial, interdimensional, or 646 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,720 something else. Entirely, we are being denied the opportunity to 647 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:55,359 understand our place in the universe. 648 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:55,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. 649 00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:58,519 Speaker 2: Max's point is that we need to stop asking if 650 00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:02,680 there are anomalies and start asking who is operating them, 651 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:04,640 and why are they there, and why. 652 00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: Are they watching us? That's the scary part, right, They 653 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,839 tracked Apollo, they watched us Land, they're watching the ISS. 654 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,599 It feels like we are the ants, and the ant 655 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,799 farm and someone is just tapping on the glass. 656 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:17,759 Speaker 2: It certainly shifts the perspective. It makes you realize that 657 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:20,359 our dominance of space might just be an illusion. We 658 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,720 might just be guests in someone else's backyard. 659 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: So here is the question for you, for everyone listening. Yeah, 660 00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:29,960 put yourself in Ken Maddingly's boots or buzz Aldron's boots. 661 00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:32,839 You're out there, two hundred and forty thousand miles from home. 662 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,559 You see a craft tracking you. You know that if 663 00:30:35,559 --> 00:30:38,519 you screen, UFO, mission control might cut you off, or 664 00:30:38,519 --> 00:30:40,920 the public might panic, or you might be court martialed 665 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,799 for treason. When you get home, what do you do? 666 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,400 Do you tell the world and risk everything, or do 667 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,200 you follow orders, come home a hero and live with 668 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,039 the secret that eats you alive for the rest of 669 00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:50,680 your life. 670 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:54,359 Speaker 2: It's not an easy choice, and I would really encourage everyone. 671 00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:56,519 Speaker 3: Listening to do their own deep dive. You can download 672 00:30:56,559 --> 00:30:57,079 these photos. 673 00:30:57,079 --> 00:31:01,079 Speaker 2: Look up frame as eleven four zero five nine three eight. 674 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,160 Look at the Aristartis crater in the LRO data. The 675 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,359 evidence is there hiding in plain sight in the black sky. 676 00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:10,119 Speaker 1: Absolutely, don't take our word for it. Go look at 677 00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,799 the dark spots brain the images. See what's looking back 678 00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:14,279 at you. What do you think is going on up there? 679 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:17,599 Speaker 2: Let us know, and keep asking questions, because the silence 680 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,279 only works if we stop asking. 681 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: That's it for today's thrilling threads. Keep pulling the threads 682 00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,680 and watch the skies. Welcome to the real space Age.