Speaker 1: Welcome Friends Podcast podcast.
Speaker 2: Zaki y they're talking about today an alien ship attacked Earth?
Speaker 2: Should we be nervous? Yeah? What showdown? Earth is not
Speaker 2: for the taking because I guess they didn't get the
Speaker 2: message the first time. That is definitely bigger than the
Speaker 2: last one. Welcome to a movie film commentary track. My
Speaker 2: name is Zaki is Son. I'm here with Brian Hall. Hey.
Speaker 3: How's it going, Zachie?
Speaker 2: Brian? Are you ready to celebrate our Independence Day again? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're talking of course about Independence Day Resurgence, the sequel
Speaker 2: to Independence Day that I think that most people there's
Speaker 2: been like a neuralizer men in black thing, Yeah, where
Speaker 2: people don't realize it exists. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder if people I mentioned to a few people
Speaker 1: that we were going to be talking about this and
Speaker 1: they either hadn't seen it or had forgotten about it.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, this movie doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: Basically, it had zero cultural footprint. Yeah, negative cultural footprint.
Speaker 2: I think it made people retroactively forget about the first one.
Speaker 3: Which is a shame.
Speaker 2: I would agree that's a shame. So naturally I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what might be kind of fun. This is
Speaker 2: my plan for us to just kill our algorithmic search.
Speaker 2: That's the goal. Yeah. So you know, it's Independence Day
Speaker 2: eve as we're recording this, and we're like, what better
Speaker 2: way to celebrate then by watching the sequel to Independence Day?
Speaker 1: Well, I gotta say, I mean, we do all sorts
Speaker 1: of movies. We do, even when we do our commentaries,
Speaker 1: and some are beloved, you know, movies by us, and
Speaker 1: some are Oh, I haven't seen this since the nineties,
Speaker 1: let's revisit that. And when you brought this up, I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, yeah, this is just one of
Speaker 1: those strange films where I know I saw it, I
Speaker 1: don't remember a thing about it. Like you said, it's
Speaker 1: left no cultural footprint some kind of I mean, why not,
Speaker 1: like it could be kind of a fun autopsy a
Speaker 1: little bit, Yeah, you know, digging into it. Why isn't
Speaker 1: Will Smith in this? You know, all sorts of all
Speaker 1: the iterations over the years trying to get this made,
Speaker 1: and what they eventually were like, look, it's now or never,
Speaker 1: make whatever we can in this moment here you go.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of I'm looking forward to talking about
Speaker 2: this with you. As I was rewatching this to get
Speaker 2: prepped for this, I texted you might this be the
Speaker 2: worst movie we've ever done a commentary track for? And
Speaker 2: I bear in mind I'm saying this mere weeks after
Speaker 2: we did the nineteen eighty four Supergirl, right, which is
Speaker 2: saying something.
Speaker 1: It is which I look forward to trying to put
Speaker 1: into words. Yeah, you know, I definitely have feelings about it.
Speaker 1: Why it doesn't land at all, whereas the first one
Speaker 1: is I would say pretty beloved.
Speaker 2: I think to the people who experienced it, it is beloved, right,
Speaker 2: I don't I get I don't know that it's it's
Speaker 2: taken on evergreen status all a other holiday you know, favorites. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a good point. That's a good point. But hey,
Speaker 2: we're gonna we're gonna try to figure this out. It's
Speaker 2: been ten years, it's been for both of us. It
Speaker 2: has been ten years since we saw this the first time.
Speaker 2: Coming at it with fresh eyes, we're ten years older,
Speaker 2: maybe wiser, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh, and I also have to mention the selling point,
Speaker 1: the thing to put me over the edge that Zechi said.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I think this could be an
Speaker 1: interesting conversation, but like, man, I can't imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: two hours and twenty minutes of this thing, and.
Speaker 2: A minute later you're like, Brian, I just checked. It's
Speaker 2: under two hours. I'll take it. Brian's like sold. So, hey,
Speaker 2: we're watching Independencday Resurgence. If you want to watch along
Speaker 2: with us, you can. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. No,
Speaker 2: just hang out with us on this Independence Day exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: hopefully we'll have a fun discussion. I suspect we'll we'll
Speaker 2: learn a lot, We'll learn things about each other. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know our capacity for tolerating poor, baffling creative choices.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of that will be will be unveiled.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. But here we go. Let's do this. Let's
Speaker 2: do this alrighty, So we are watching the one and
Speaker 2: only cut of Independence Day Resurgence. So here we go.
Speaker 2: We'll do the usual thing. We'll hit play on three
Speaker 2: one two three play. And by the way, if you
Speaker 2: do want to watch along with us, the best way
Speaker 2: to do that would be hearing it through our Patreon page,
Speaker 2: because that would give it to you ad free. Brian,
Speaker 2: how to how do people get that experience?
Speaker 1: All you have to do is head over to patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Movie Film Podcast, hit subscribe, it's only
Speaker 1: five dollars a month. You find our commentaries without any
Speaker 1: ads or interruptions, butting into the conversation and fun and
Speaker 1: all of our episodes too, ad free and along with
Speaker 1: bonus conversations that we drop about twice a month. So
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash MOVIEFILM podcast.
Speaker 2: Well we will do the usual thing on three, Brian,
Speaker 2: you're ready, I'm ready, all right, So again we'll go
Speaker 2: one two three play, So one two three play.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Twenty century Fox. I was thinking, wow, strange that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist anymore, I.
Speaker 2: Know, and this franchise doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, it is
Speaker 2: remarkable that the first film when it came out, I
Speaker 2: mean it was it was a cultural moment. We talked
Speaker 2: about this before. If you folks want to hear our
Speaker 2: thoughts on that, get back five years. We did our
Speaker 2: commentary track for the original Inependency and there was a
Speaker 2: desire obviously for a sequel right away. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, that movie in nineteen ninety six made eight hundred
Speaker 1: and seventeen million worldwide. It was it was a smash
Speaker 1: smash hit.
Speaker 2: So that's a billion plus today, yeah, right, and new
Speaker 2: to theaters, not based on anything hmm, yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: big deal. Yep. Right, so at that time, you know,
Speaker 2: it's we have to cast our gaze back a little bit.
Speaker 2: Will Smith was the top build star, but he wasn't
Speaker 2: the above the title star. He was one of an ensemble.
Speaker 2: And you know, we forget that because that was what
Speaker 2: that was, the movie that was instrumental in launching him
Speaker 2: into stardom. And so you realize how much he brought
Speaker 2: to that film with how much is missing from this film.
Speaker 2: There's a Will Smith shaped hole in the entire movie.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, yeah, and apparently, I mean, who knows.
Speaker 1: But according to Will Smith and a BBC interview, it
Speaker 1: was a scheduling conflict. Yeah, and I think it basically
Speaker 1: came down to either this or suicide squad. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's possible. Maybe they didn't want to pay him what
Speaker 1: he was worth it that moment. But so imagine you're
Speaker 1: trying to make an Independence Day sequel and you write
Speaker 1: it for Will Smith, and Will Smith can't do it.
Speaker 1: I mean, where do you even begin, right, coming up
Speaker 1: with a news story without him in it.
Speaker 2: Well, what I read, just just to add on to
Speaker 2: what you're saying, the plan originally was to shoot two
Speaker 2: movies back to back, right, which you can totally tell
Speaker 2: at the end of this one. Absolutely, And he he
Speaker 2: wanted fifty million for two movies, which I have to
Speaker 2: say probably would have been worth it. I think, I
Speaker 2: think still in that moment in twenty sixteen, exactly having
Speaker 2: him in these movies would have at least got you
Speaker 2: your money back. I agree with that, you know, for
Speaker 2: the promotional opportunities, everything else, all of the what he
Speaker 2: would bring to it, just in terms of eyeballs. And again, yeah,
Speaker 2: ten years ago he was still one of the biggest
Speaker 2: stars in the world. Well he still is. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: it's different, it's different, you know.
Speaker 1: On that note, I mean, yeah, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the next ten years look like for Will Smith. It's
Speaker 1: a good point, kind of hard at this point, still
Speaker 1: kind of hard to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well, you know, again, we're spending a
Speaker 2: lot of time talking about a guy who's not in
Speaker 2: the movie. But I think Bad Boys a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago proves that he's still a draw in the
Speaker 2: right project. Great point. Yeah, you're right, Like, like if
Speaker 2: he were to do a Men in Black, I think
Speaker 2: people would show up, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talk about that, because I you know,
Speaker 1: we love the Men in Black series, and they put
Speaker 1: out a fourth one.
Speaker 3: They tried to do it without him.
Speaker 1: They tried to do the Born legacy sort of situation, right,
Speaker 1: did Jeremy rennerd the Men in Black series? And it
Speaker 1: didn't resonate, didn't take. But I'd be curious if you
Speaker 1: give it some time.
Speaker 2: So, you know, Okay, So here we are twenty years later.
Speaker 2: Now this is this is this production still painting of
Speaker 2: Will Smith. Mm hmmm. I always loved that when they
Speaker 2: do that in the movies, you know, yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: a Henry Jones senior, you know, yeah, totally so. So
Speaker 2: I feel bad saying this because I'm sure Jesse Usher
Speaker 2: is a lovely person, but boy did they give him
Speaker 2: a hill to climb that he just he was he
Speaker 2: was unable to surmount.
Speaker 1: Well, certainly if they expected him to bring Smith's energy
Speaker 1: to this movie, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I think they expected him to bring energy to
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, and it's really rough, yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel like a lead that you want to
Speaker 2: follow for the entire film. They well I said this before,
Speaker 2: it was like they they hit you know, Captain Stephen
Speaker 2: Hill are on the head, and and he turned into
Speaker 2: four little squirrels, among them Jesse Usher and then than
Speaker 2: the Hemsworth boy here right right, and and I I
Speaker 2: didn't remember being as annoyed by Liam Hemswrith ten years
Speaker 2: ago as I was rewatching his character.
Speaker 3: Cock is Hans solo he's playing here, It's.
Speaker 2: Like, seriously, yeah again, I'm sure Liam Hemsworth is a
Speaker 2: nice guy. They gave him nothing to work with other
Speaker 2: than just here's this archetype, this generic biff archetype.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're a hot shot maverick, you know, and
Speaker 1: you're a wise cracker. See, And I think this never
Speaker 1: works when you cast someone who isn't actually sort of
Speaker 1: like that, like Ford is a little disaffected as a human.
Speaker 2: It's a great point, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: when he's playing Han solo, it feels like a part
Speaker 2: of him he has earned cynicism, earned cynicism.
Speaker 1: And even with Will Smith, I mean, he's got this
Speaker 1: cocky bravado, but he's still so lovable, Like we're with
Speaker 1: him when he's cock We love it when he's cocky.
Speaker 1: Where's some other people when they play cocky we kind
Speaker 1: of hate them, you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, like some people. That's why these people are movie stars.
Speaker 2: That's funny.
Speaker 1: And and so yeah, Liam Hemsworth, I feel like he's
Speaker 1: like handsome and he's kind of doing the what's asked
Speaker 1: of him, but he doesn't actually exude what it is
Speaker 1: they want him to do here, and so it just
Speaker 1: feels false.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a shame. Yeah, I've said this before,
Speaker 2: and it just tells you about that family that he's
Speaker 2: the less attractive Hemsworth, which just really means that family
Speaker 2: hit the genetic lotto.
Speaker 3: That really is saying something. God bless him.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know what's funny. I was looking
Speaker 2: at the friend here at Charlie, yeah, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's likable, doomed partner. But he's neither doomed nor likable.
Speaker 2: So I was I was wrong about this. I like
Speaker 2: that guy by the way.
Speaker 1: I was like, see, he's got a natural kind of
Speaker 1: quirkiness to him. I believe him as the plucky psy
Speaker 1: kick in the hero shadow that you just kind of love.
Speaker 2: Anyway, weren't you kind of waiting for him to die though?
Speaker 2: Oh totally right. Yeah, So I was disappointed he didn't die,
Speaker 2: not because I like disliked him in the film, but
Speaker 2: because I'm like, well, wait a minute, yeah, you didn't
Speaker 2: do the thing. That's the role, that's what you're here for. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So okay, this this opening sequence here, I think really
Speaker 2: for me sums up what I what I said ten
Speaker 2: years ago was my issue with this film. It's too
Speaker 2: far removed from what made the original work. So we're
Speaker 2: watching there's like a moon base here, and cocky kacky
Speaker 2: Hemsworth boy does a thing to show he's cocky, does
Speaker 2: he saves them whatever? But this is not the world
Speaker 2: of Independence Day. Yes, I sorry, I'm gonna let you
Speaker 2: keep going because we are on the exact same page.
Speaker 2: What made Independence Day the original one work is you know,
Speaker 2: for example, the scene when we see the giant mothership's
Speaker 2: approaching Earth, we're seeing it from the perspective of our
Speaker 2: everyday life. Yes, what would it be like to be
Speaker 2: in Times Square and suddenly this ship rolls up? Right,
Speaker 2: it's our world? And once we have a moon base
Speaker 2: and space tugs and all this stuff, Well, it's not
Speaker 2: our world, right, You've got these helicopters that have like
Speaker 2: hover technology or whatever, and in universe I understand being like, well,
Speaker 2: twenty years later, we've retrofitted alien technology. Da you know what, Fine,
Speaker 2: I get it, but it's too far removed from what
Speaker 2: made the original work. And by the way, it would
Speaker 2: be one thing if having retrofitted the alien technology it
Speaker 2: made even a little bit of difference against the aliens. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't. Oh that's a good point. I didn't actually
Speaker 2: think about that totally meaningless.
Speaker 3: Yeah right.
Speaker 2: So, so such a weird choice because this, first of all,
Speaker 2: this looks really expensive. M m. So it's a lot
Speaker 2: of money you spent for nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, man, you're so right. I mean
Speaker 1: that's what struck by was. Man, that trailer was so
Speaker 1: effective because it's like, what if you walked out into
Speaker 1: your driveway to pick up your newspaper and a giant
Speaker 1: shadow covered you and your entire house. You looked up
Speaker 1: and there was a spaceship, you know, several miles long,
Speaker 1: just hovering over your neighborhood. What if it was what
Speaker 1: if that was hovering over the White House?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 1: We lose all that groundedness. That the thing we always
Speaker 1: talk about, the fantasy adventure in your backyard, you know,
Speaker 1: a real grounded feeling to know seriously, what would we
Speaker 1: do with what we have and what we understand about reality,
Speaker 1: with this fantastical situation and seeing humanity all over the
Speaker 1: world come together and figured it out out and stop,
Speaker 1: it is really rousing and satisfying, right And in this yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just I feel like I'm watching like a sci
Speaker 1: fi channel movie. You know, it's just moon base, like
Speaker 1: you said, moon bases and people in these suits, and
Speaker 1: they aren't as charismatic as the characters in the first film.
Speaker 1: The photography is somehow blander looking, the vfx are blander looking.
Speaker 1: There's just nothing to hold on to, and so it's
Speaker 1: just it's just yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Well, there's parts of the film where I was
Speaker 2: watching and I got this. I was like, did they
Speaker 2: shoot this during COVID? And then I realized that it's
Speaker 2: like five years before COVID.
Speaker 1: Zachi this is I actually wrote this down. I said,
Speaker 1: most of this movie looks like that rooftop scene from
Speaker 1: the movie The Room. It does where it's like these
Speaker 1: people with that flat lighting, they're clearly somewhere. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: not in the location because a lot of times they're outside,
Speaker 1: but their faces are completely without any harsh lighting from
Speaker 1: the sun or any silhouettes or shit, it's just flat
Speaker 1: lighting and then some sort of background dropped in behind them.
Speaker 1: And so much of this movie, I mean, I could
Speaker 1: forgive a scene or two, but so much of this
Speaker 1: movie looks like that. And so that just adds to
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. There's just nothing to hold on
Speaker 1: to here. You know, even if you could just give
Speaker 1: us characters that we cared about, maybe we could. I
Speaker 1: was thinking, there's this dynamic right where you have that
Speaker 1: Chinese pilot and you have Hemsworth and the kid and
Speaker 1: the whatever. And I was like, Wow, there's like more
Speaker 1: chemistry and fun, and I feel more for the Dynamics
Speaker 1: and Starship Troopers, hm, you know, with the Dizzy and
Speaker 1: you know, Casper Vandian and all that soap opera stuff
Speaker 1: call it. You know, maybe it is soap opry, but
Speaker 1: I still connect with it. And I feel bad when
Speaker 1: Dizzy dies, you know, like here it's just they're going
Speaker 1: for that gang you know at the Academy sort of feel.
Speaker 1: But I don't feel anything for any of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a great point. And I wonder like
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where I this is this
Speaker 2: was a you know, at least behind the scenes. I mean,
Speaker 2: you've got Roland Emerick back, you got Dan Devlin back,
Speaker 2: and presumably they know the world that they created. And
Speaker 2: the thought I had watching is maybe this might this
Speaker 2: film might have been better served by somebody from the
Speaker 2: subsequent generation making it, you know, right, you know, like
Speaker 2: how like Radio Silence is doing you know, The Mummy, right,
Speaker 2: And I mean, who knows how that movie will turn
Speaker 2: out as we record this, but.
Speaker 3: Well they did Scream pretty successful.
Speaker 2: Oh scream there you go, right, Yeah, So having the
Speaker 2: affinity of a fan because it feels like you watch
Speaker 2: this and you're like, well, obviously the first one was
Speaker 2: like a fluke, yeah, you know. And I say that
Speaker 2: because when you look at the totality of Emeric and
Speaker 2: Devlin Co productions, what do he write got we got
Speaker 2: from Universal Soldier to The Patriot, I would say the
Speaker 2: only out and out slam dunk was Independence Day in
Speaker 2: that mix. Yeah right, I mean, I like The Patriot too,
Speaker 2: but that's probably second best. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: Godzilla is kind of a you know, it has its issues,
Speaker 2: and you know, Stargate I think became stronger because of
Speaker 2: the stuff that they weren't involved in.
Speaker 3: You know, all the stuff that came after it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the television show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I was.
Speaker 1: Thinking about their stuff watching this, and for some reason
Speaker 1: I thought of the movie the day after tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and in my mind I.
Speaker 1: Think, oh, yeah, that was kind of it's corny, right,
Speaker 1: and it's probably silly and whatever. And then recently I
Speaker 1: was on a road trip with our friend Shawn and
Speaker 1: we were at a hotel and we were just like,
Speaker 1: I was throwing the TV tired after day driving, and
Speaker 1: we started that move. It was on like TBS or something,
Speaker 1: and we watched the whole thing. Yeah, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, you can you can nitpick some of
Speaker 1: this stuff, but like it is affecting exactly.
Speaker 2: These they the.
Speaker 1: Characters are archetypes or tropes or whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call them, but like they are interesting, you know, and
Speaker 1: when they cast, well, he kind of knows how to
Speaker 1: make this big, popcorny movie that will translate all over
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 3: It's simple enough, but it is captivating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he is capable of that. He's pretty good
Speaker 1: at it. So it's weird that this one feels so
Speaker 1: far afield from those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because between Independence Day and this if we're talking
Speaker 2: about just sort of like the disaster porn genre we had,
Speaker 2: as you said, Day After Tomorrow, which I remember enjoying.
Speaker 2: I mean I haven't. I haven't revisited since it came out,
Speaker 2: But you know, Jake Jillen Hall I thought was good
Speaker 2: in it, and Denis Quaid as the dad. You know,
Speaker 2: Seale Award. Isn't that too, right, isn't she? Man? And
Speaker 2: I watched it about a year ago. I don't remember.
Speaker 2: That's funny. I feel like she's the mom I could
Speaker 2: man because she's because she's in this that's the only thing. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but also even twenty twelve, Yeah, you know there there's
Speaker 2: like a it's it's very by the numbers of that
Speaker 2: type of movie. But I think if we're comparing it
Speaker 2: to this, it's it's it's better. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember it very well, if I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: But yes, I do remember moments from it. That's there's
Speaker 1: summons you remember, Yes, exactly exactly. I remember Woody Harrelson
Speaker 1: and John Cuby exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly. And I think that there's a weird like
Speaker 2: foe Yannishkominski lighting scheme here.
Speaker 3: In this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this kind of cold blue.
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, and it's you know, the one thing you
Speaker 2: can say about about the first film is, I mean,
Speaker 2: it does have CGI in it, but it's fairly limited.
Speaker 2: And so by virtue of the fact that they were
Speaker 2: subject to the limitations of practical effects they did shoot
Speaker 2: on location, there's a veracity to it that just helps totally.
Speaker 1: And I think it's worth noting also, at this point,
Speaker 1: we can do anything. You can see anything you want
Speaker 1: on screen. That's what we're capable of. But in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six, seeing a UFO blow up the White House
Speaker 1: and it looking kind of real was mind blowing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that was like really like, I gotta see
Speaker 1: that movie because I've never seen anything on that scale before, Like,
Speaker 1: what would it be like if a UFO blow up
Speaker 1: the White House and it didn't look like cheesy you know,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties sci fi whatever, like with this kind of budget,
Speaker 1: you know, And so it's just funny that that's what
Speaker 1: I remember about that movie, seeing all the monuments blow
Speaker 1: up and how crazy and powerful that felt and titillating
Speaker 1: in a way, you know, And in this one, there's
Speaker 1: just nothing, nothing on that scale. I mean, none of
Speaker 1: the effects really land for me. Well, you know, except
Speaker 1: for the aliens. I think the aliens are still pretty effective. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's a great design at the the great design and
Speaker 1: at the end, when that giant mother or you know,
Speaker 1: Queen Alien is running.
Speaker 3: Through the desert, I was like, WHOA, that looks good.
Speaker 2: It's it's realized effectively. But I don't I don't know
Speaker 2: how well I buy it within the world of the film.
Speaker 1: Fair Fair, I maybe just compared to everything else. I
Speaker 1: thought that I bought that that thing was in that location.
Speaker 1: Maybe because they paid attention to the lighting, Maybe because
Speaker 1: there was lighting.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I like, no, I agree with that
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah yeah, but but this so so by
Speaker 2: the way, pop quiz, what's what's uh? What's Hemsworth's character's name?
Speaker 2: Hot shot McCool I watched the whole movie and then
Speaker 2: I had to go to Wikipedia to remind myself what
Speaker 2: his name was. Jake Morrison. There you go, I had to.
Speaker 2: I watched the whole thing. I was like, what is
Speaker 2: his name? And they say it multiple times? Right, yeah,
Speaker 2: but but it's and I really I don't want this
Speaker 2: to just be like what was us We didn't get
Speaker 2: will Smith. But my only point in saying, like Stephen
Speaker 2: Hiller character is a pretty broad set of tropes as well, right,
Speaker 2: and yet there's just something that he brought to it
Speaker 2: that made it stand up. It made cheesy lines work
Speaker 2: Welcome to Earth, yeah, right, because because famously Ethan Hawk
Speaker 2: has said he turned down and they had offered him
Speaker 2: to Stephen Hiller role. That's wild, right, And and he's like,
Speaker 2: I thought it was shit. I thought that the lions
Speaker 2: were crap, and you're, yeah, it's like, well, I can't
Speaker 2: imagine Ethan Hawk saying welcome to Earth and having it
Speaker 2: work in the same way.
Speaker 1: You know, he's too close to the energy of Jeff Goldbloom,
Speaker 1: feeling like someone who's a little that character. Hiller's got bravado,
Speaker 1: you know, whereas Goldbloom feels like someone I can relate.
Speaker 2: To a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, and so Ethan Hawk also feels
Speaker 1: a little bit more like the average Joe kind of character.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, Right, I don't know how well that would
Speaker 2: have worked. Yeah, But like I think, just to just
Speaker 2: to pick up on what you're saying, right, you've got
Speaker 2: our three leads in the first film. You've got Stephen Hiller,
Speaker 2: you got President Whitmore, you have David Levinson and each
Speaker 2: I mean even the President is relatable, right. I think
Speaker 2: that the angst and the self doubt and stuff makes
Speaker 2: him a very compelling character. Yeah, and this too, Right,
Speaker 2: what they do with the Whitmore character in this it's
Speaker 2: just like one baffling choice after the other. It's irir
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about it more, I guess. But but
Speaker 2: I wondered a little bit like, did did Bill Pullman?
Speaker 2: Did he sign on and then they gave him the script?
Speaker 2: Or were they like, we want to do this with
Speaker 2: the character and he found it interesting.
Speaker 1: I could see that on the page, feeling interesting, like
Speaker 1: you get to play this character again, but he's psychically tortured, right,
Speaker 1: you know, and then he gets to sacrifice himself.
Speaker 3: And I could see that being attractive to an actor.
Speaker 2: I certainly, I don't have a problem with the heroic sacrifice.
Speaker 2: I do have the problem with the road to that
Speaker 2: heroic sacrifice, sure, which I'm sure we'll talk about. Okay,
Speaker 2: So a couple of things about doctor oaken Her. First
Speaker 2: of all, his name is Brackish, yes, which I feel
Speaker 2: like if you name your kid brackish. I think that's
Speaker 2: child abuse. I think I think CPS needs to be
Speaker 2: called at that point. Now we've said this before. He
Speaker 2: is one dead in the first film. Is it the
Speaker 2: last we see of him with the tentacle around the throat,
Speaker 2: They check his pulse. He's ded dead. Okay, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's fine brand Spiner. I don't mind him in this.
Speaker 2: In fact, I'll go so far as to say he
Speaker 2: out of all the characters, he gets kind of an arc. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He Actually it's like a bunch of beats to play.
Speaker 1: It feels like the energy from the first film. Yeah, returning,
Speaker 1: you know, him trying to cut into the thing and
Speaker 1: finding his favorite sad like that stuff is fun. That's
Speaker 1: the fun that's missing. I think the personality quirks.
Speaker 2: I also, I actually really liked William Fickner in this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's good.
Speaker 3: I wanted to pend on of him.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, yeah, William Fickner is one of those
Speaker 2: guys you plug him in, you know what you're getting, right,
Speaker 2: character actor's character actor. But like I think that him
Speaker 2: going from you know, all the way down here in
Speaker 2: the chain of succession to suddenly becoming president like that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Mm hm, you know.
Speaker 1: And maybe doesn't feel as big a moment as it should.
Speaker 2: That, right, So I think the problem is that they
Speaker 2: don't make Cela Ward a big enough character. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: it should mean something when she.
Speaker 3: Dies totally totally like what do we do now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then him sort of like almost like not
Speaker 1: that he would be reluctant, but you're, well, now you're
Speaker 1: the president of the United States and sort of a
Speaker 1: you know, just yeah, but then I'll step up to
Speaker 1: the plate. Like I can imagine the for these filmmakers
Speaker 1: doing that better in other movies, the humanity of it,
Speaker 1: what they're actually feeling, they're first Corney's these movies are
Speaker 1: the humanity is always pretty palpable.
Speaker 2: Well, so that's the That's what I find odd, right,
Speaker 2: Like when you watch the first film, the moments of
Speaker 2: loss feel like moments of loss, whether whether it's you know,
Speaker 2: the aftermath of the attack and you have people sort
Speaker 2: of taking in the totality of what happened or you know,
Speaker 2: and I think I've said this before, one of one
Speaker 2: of my favorite lines in the film is after the
Speaker 2: attack and you've got President Moore on the plane and
Speaker 2: and he says, I'm many people died today, how many
Speaker 2: of them didn't have to? And and I talk about
Speaker 2: just a perfect window into his character. Right, but even
Speaker 2: like when uh, what's her name, you know, the wife dies?
Speaker 2: Who plays her, Oh Mary Mary Mary McDonald from from
Speaker 2: Battlestar Galactica, who also, by the way, speaking of like
Speaker 2: chain of succession. Right in Battlestar Galactica, she's like the
Speaker 2: secretary of education and then suddenly she becomes the president.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, you know, so and it's a great, you
Speaker 2: know moment because she's just completely unequipped for that, you know,
Speaker 2: and she's obviously a regular for that whole series. But
Speaker 2: when she dies, it's a great moment, you know. And
Speaker 2: in this film, I mean, we're about to see it,
Speaker 2: you know, the big attack happens like minutes from from now,
Speaker 2: and it just doesn't anything.
Speaker 1: You know, now that the first movie's flashing through my mind,
Speaker 1: I remember Vivk Fox's stripper friend, remember, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go up to the We're all going to
Speaker 1: the top of a building. We're gonna go like welcome them.
Speaker 1: Kirsten Warren, I remember her like she was memorable and
Speaker 1: interesting and she's only like in it for probably a
Speaker 1: total of you know, fifty five seconds or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I remember her being on top of the
Speaker 1: building and the ship opening and she's.
Speaker 2: Like, wow, it's beautiful. Yeah, it's so haunting because she
Speaker 2: doesn't know what's about to happen next.
Speaker 1: Just such great details to make me, bring me into
Speaker 1: that feeling and the experience, and that I remember long
Speaker 1: afterwards and that Yeah, just movies doesn't have any of that.
Speaker 2: So do you think the mistake was like we talked,
Speaker 2: we talked if often about how some of these legacy
Speaker 2: sequels feel like karaoke redos of the earlier film, Right,
Speaker 2: do you think the mistake was not sticking closer to
Speaker 2: that original template.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that, because I was thinking as
Speaker 1: I said that, like, in some ways I remember even
Speaker 1: the first time I watched this, I admired the way
Speaker 1: that they incorporated the alien technology, yeah into everyday life,
Speaker 1: because yeah, that makes sense, you know X amount of
Speaker 1: years later, like we've learned some new things we would
Speaker 1: not have the present day that we have in our reality.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, it makes sense in the world. But that's
Speaker 1: a good point. I mean, we do like you said,
Speaker 1: that's not a reality I can really relate to, right,
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't know, what do you think.
Speaker 2: It's It's tough. I think I think rewatching. I'm I
Speaker 2: don't mind them having having the technology, and I think
Speaker 2: it would have been better served by incorporating it in
Speaker 2: subtler ways. Sure that that aren't noticeably distracting, right, because
Speaker 2: because ultimately, here's the paradox. The sequel to Independence Day
Speaker 2: had to exist twenty years after the first film within
Speaker 2: the world of the film, but it also had to
Speaker 2: exist in our world. And so I think you square
Speaker 2: the circle on that by yes, you acknowledge that we've
Speaker 2: gotten ahead in some ways thanks to their technology, but
Speaker 2: not so far ahead that it doesn't look like our
Speaker 2: world right, Right? And again, why do I say this,
Speaker 2: Because in terms of the story they've constructed, the fact
Speaker 2: that we have gotten ahead really doesn't impact the story
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it's interesting because I was thinking a
Speaker 1: version of that could be. You know, you obviously we
Speaker 1: have these things, but it'd be hard for us to
Speaker 1: imagine in ninety six. Now we have these futuristic tablets
Speaker 1: and hover bikes and whatever. Right, But it's not some
Speaker 1: sort of utopia like kids are still bored, you know, kids,
Speaker 1: you know, like still want a better hover bike, and
Speaker 1: you know, just make it at least a little bit
Speaker 1: more relatable, because if we've learned anything from all the
Speaker 1: crazyiness of the past several years, like it really doesn't
Speaker 1: rattle us enough anyway, Like we just we go back
Speaker 1: to the status quo pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: So think about this, like all of this moon based business,
Speaker 2: how does it change the story if we just make
Speaker 2: them fighter pilots on Earth? It really doesn't, hm, Like
Speaker 2: there's nothing about the moon setting that meaningfully impacts the plot.
Speaker 1: And I can't I'm not saying it's not possible, but yes,
Speaker 1: I don't relate to them being up there very much.
Speaker 2: That's right, Like the story would function just as well
Speaker 2: if we have a remote monitoring station on the Moon,
Speaker 2: but the action is still on Earth yep ye right,
Speaker 2: So in other words, that that bakes in. Okay, we've
Speaker 2: gotten advance to the degree that we can build this
Speaker 2: thing and have it on the Moon, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's still it's still our.
Speaker 1: Earth yeph What was that movie that just came out.
Speaker 3: On Netflix?
Speaker 2: Bigelow Catherine Bigloaded.
Speaker 1: Catherine big house a dynamite where uh, it's basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a missile that's in root to Chicago and it
Speaker 1: takes place in real time and they're trying to determine
Speaker 1: whether to shoot it down to retaliate, Like what do
Speaker 1: we do in real time with this situation? And it's
Speaker 1: it's and it's unfortunately the movie as a whole.
Speaker 2: But real quick brain, yeah, this whole thing that we're
Speaker 2: watching here with the war learn and stuff. Tell me,
Speaker 2: wouldn't you have rather watched that movie? Totally? Sure?
Speaker 1: Sorry, go on, no, no, no, no, well, I just
Speaker 1: it's I'm just thinking of this moment here, yes, on
Speaker 1: the moon base and you've got this foreign ship or
Speaker 1: whatever that they don't understand, and there's this tension.
Speaker 3: Of I mean, what do we shoot it?
Speaker 2: Like? What do we do to this thing?
Speaker 1: And I just I wish it had the palpable tension
Speaker 1: that I felt in that other movie, where I felt
Speaker 1: a little bit more grounded and like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, if we don't take care of this thing,
Speaker 1: it could take out of major US city And like
Speaker 1: it's a really sweat, you know, a beat, a sweat
Speaker 1: coming down the President's forehead like I, I don't, and
Speaker 1: then I would be thinking, I don't know what I
Speaker 1: would do, But it's just we don't get any of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I The the opening scenes of the first film,
Speaker 2: even before the ships arrive, are spent really building out
Speaker 2: the world, building out our characters, and and and it's
Speaker 2: very you know, it's Poseidon Adventure, it's it's Towering Inferno,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's following in that tradition. But that's the
Speaker 2: reason those films worked at that time, right, because to
Speaker 2: some extent you would watch them and and you would
Speaker 2: feel just enough investment to care about who who lives
Speaker 2: and who doesn't. Whereas here we've got, you know, speaking
Speaker 2: of names of characters, that that that nerdy guy you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: what's his name? No idea, Yeah, nerdy guy. But he
Speaker 2: is a very emeric character, isn't he very much so
Speaker 2: so like bureaucrat, I knowing bureaucrat guy who eventually picks
Speaker 2: up a gun and becomes a hero by the end.
Speaker 2: And that's right, well, he's sort of he's like Charles
Speaker 2: Martin Smith and in Untouchables, you know, right, sure, but
Speaker 2: again it's like, I mean, there's a way to make
Speaker 2: it meaningful, right, Like that's kind of I think the
Speaker 2: missed opportunity is the earlier film, which which was just
Speaker 2: trashed by critics when it came out, right, and yet
Speaker 2: it audiences didn't pay attention to the critics, h right,
Speaker 2: So in other words, it did speak to something. Hm,
Speaker 2: there was no reason for this one not to tap
Speaker 2: into whatever enthusiasm audience has had for that original film.
Speaker 1: Well, and as you say that, it's making me think
Speaker 1: had the moment just passed for this kind of film?
Speaker 1: I mean, that movie hit perfectly in ninety six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but maybe we're in a different we're post Dark Knight.
Speaker 2: Well we're not just post Dark Knight, we're post Jurassic World,
Speaker 2: we're post The Force Awakens. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: maybe this moment had kind of passed. I Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think I think Independence Day had the benefit a right
Speaker 2: of arriving in between Star Wars is. Yeah. Right, so
Speaker 2: it was sort of scratching a particular itch, right, But
Speaker 2: it's not like the it didn't have any kind of
Speaker 2: a cultural impact. I don't think you know, wait, which
Speaker 2: one this film? Excuse me, not this one, this franchise.
Speaker 2: They were the first film. Oh yeah, yeah, right, So
Speaker 2: I feel like an audience would have been there, and
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: To see Jeff Goldbloom and Will Smith side by side again,
Speaker 1: I think people would.
Speaker 2: Have liked that. Yeah, I look, I think I mean
Speaker 2: a big picture. Look, as soon as you decide you're
Speaker 2: doing a sequel, the first thing you do is you
Speaker 2: call Will Smith and you say what what what do
Speaker 2: you want your character to what do you want his
Speaker 2: arc to be? And then you build the story around
Speaker 2: that and you make sure he's on board from the jump, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: definitely without him, it is a little bit like The
Speaker 2: Office after Steve Carell left. Ah yeah, yeah, right, where
Speaker 2: you're like, look, I like Dwight and Andy's great and
Speaker 2: you know, but but we don't but Michael's not there,
Speaker 2: you know. Yep, that's great. That's a great example.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: It's funny.
Speaker 1: I this scene here where they're going to go down
Speaker 1: and see that little ball that had come out of
Speaker 1: the ship.
Speaker 2: That they shot you go check it out. It reminded
Speaker 2: me of that scene when they are on the Moon
Speaker 2: in two.
Speaker 3: Thousand and one.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, when they're approaching the monolith, and I mean,
Speaker 1: well and it's just what's oh lojah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was suffering from dementia at this point.
Speaker 2: You can kind of see it. Actually, I was a
Speaker 2: little sad seeing him. I had that. I was like,
Speaker 2: it just felt I don't know, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: It made me feel bad. I didn't feel happy seeing him.
Speaker 1: If he wanted to be there, like please, I would
Speaker 1: like to be there, then that's great.
Speaker 3: And that's his real life.
Speaker 2: From the look on his face, it feels like he
Speaker 2: didn't really know what was happening. Yes, and yes, you
Speaker 2: can sort of see that well, and that's the whole
Speaker 2: celebration scene. This gets to sort of the phoniness of
Speaker 2: it all. Yeah, right, it's just green screen palooza. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, guys, just get people in an arena
Speaker 2: and you know, and and add on to digitally, but
Speaker 2: but make it feel like a crowd for goodness sake.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really hard to fake the sun. Yeah
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like the sun is harsh
Speaker 1: and it puts harsh light and edges around noses and
Speaker 1: ears and things, and when it's not real, it's just
Speaker 1: so noticeable and weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so hey, quick question, what's what's presidency the
Speaker 2: ward's name?
Speaker 1: Ah, Jenny can do it. I don't know, Landford, you
Speaker 1: looked it up. I did have IMDb in.
Speaker 2: Front of me. Yeah. That looks terrible. That looks like
Speaker 2: the room. Yeah yeah, yeah, gosh. But it's like total Yanishi,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Yeah yeah, with all the halos around the people.
Speaker 2: So my thought watching this about the Whitmore character I
Speaker 2: was I was thinking, I was like, maybe it works
Speaker 2: better if instead of him first time we see him
Speaker 2: he's all like baby, right, maybe he's like okay, mmm,
Speaker 2: he's like normal, and then suddenly this happens and activated,
Speaker 2: right yep, and here exactly yes at this moment, and
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, oh thirty yeah, okay, right. I feel like
Speaker 2: that gives your character something more somewhere more interesting to go.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about. But I said this before when we
Speaker 2: did our review, like ten years ago. But it feels
Speaker 2: it Whitmore feels a little bit like Kenny in South Park,
Speaker 2: where it's just like except this is like suicidal Kenny
Speaker 2: where he keeps wanting to which I think was an
Speaker 2: odd choice, but but I think it would be more
Speaker 2: interesting to have him just you know, he's he's normal,
Speaker 2: he's there as an attendee. He doesn't show up and
Speaker 2: be all crazy. That's a great idea.
Speaker 1: That's a great because and then and then the warlord
Speaker 1: guy him all getting activated for the first time, and
Speaker 1: it's like, what the hell is happening to these people?
Speaker 3: You know, like that'd be a great Yeah, I agree,
Speaker 3: good note.
Speaker 2: Thanks. Yeah, I mean, because that's the shame of it,
Speaker 2: because I really like President Whitmore in the earlier film,
Speaker 2: and I see I see very little of him in this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, by the way, his daughter originally played by
Speaker 1: May Whitman, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Play Monroe in this And yeah, I mean there is
Speaker 2: at least some question about how that casting change happened. Uh,
Speaker 2: But based on May Whitman, it feels the the movie
Speaker 2: people are like, well, she didn't want to read for it,
Speaker 2: and my sense from her, although she's never addressed it directly,
Speaker 2: is not she was never given the opportunity to read
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw that some of her friends, like Anna Kendrick
Speaker 1: and people kind of spoke out on her behalf and
Speaker 1: Whitmen for the most part, basically just I think she
Speaker 1: liked a couple of tweets sort of hinting it how
Speaker 1: she felt about it, but which I.
Speaker 2: Love in the social media age that this is our
Speaker 2: I know, archaeology to that's so true. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: so and so stopped following so and so on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, you know that's that's really funny. Our archaeology.
Speaker 2: It's kind of sad. It kind of is the d
Speaker 2: of a loos of our of our discourse. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but but even okay, so you recast the president's daughter.
Speaker 2: It's fine, you know, doesn't get a ton to do.
Speaker 2: That's really memorable.
Speaker 1: No, she's interesting, right, I mean she she was in
Speaker 1: It Follows, right, that was kind of her breakout It Follows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And she she continues to pop up
Speaker 2: in things. It's it's she's she's like fine in the movie.
Speaker 2: I don't think she's bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I I agree.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: It's uh, I kind of made me feel bad. I
Speaker 1: bet for her.
Speaker 2: This was like, hey, this is my big my big
Speaker 2: movie now. Yeah, and then she sort of gets roped
Speaker 2: into this discourse, right. Well, that yeah, that's true too.
Speaker 2: You know. By the way, the the the French scientist
Speaker 2: who's positioned as like a elevens and love interest. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's fine, but do they even mention Margaret Collins character.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was wondering what happened to them.
Speaker 2: I guess she died. I mean it's I mean, they
Speaker 2: don't even mention.
Speaker 1: Her, right, right, and you are referring to the character
Speaker 1: of Catherine Marceau.
Speaker 2: Naturally, I had to get ahead of that one. So
Speaker 2: that's the guy from Dark Knight, right, yes, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: who's hiding.
Speaker 3: He's got the money, the monster's money.
Speaker 2: Okay. I like him. He's kind of he's like a type,
Speaker 2: you know. You know, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing, like and it probably
Speaker 1: just comes from that film. He's so good in that
Speaker 1: movie in such a small role that when I see him, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, oh good that guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, now they cast the you know, the actor
Speaker 2: who plays his daughter angela baby. Okay, uh, she's like
Speaker 2: one word naturally hm uh. It was very obviously a
Speaker 2: sop to the Chinese audience. That was very which was
Speaker 2: the style at the time, which is right, it's and
Speaker 2: it's very funny because China figured out pretty quick what
Speaker 2: we were doing. I mean, was that Iron Man three
Speaker 2: right where China got extra scenes of Tony Stark drinking
Speaker 2: like a Chinese soda that we never saw in the States. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that kind of we're doing that a lot. Yeah. One
Speaker 2: of them Transformers movies, right, had a big Hong Kong sequence. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's because it added so much to the
Speaker 1: worldwide box office, and I think at the time China
Speaker 1: was only allowing a certain amount of US films.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't even know what's going on with that anymore,
Speaker 2: but I mean it's it's China no longer factors into
Speaker 2: whether like a movie is going to be a hit,
Speaker 2: you know, because I think they've had it with our shit,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean it is it's like pretty condescending
Speaker 2: when you think about it, because it's not like her
Speaker 2: character is particularly impactful on the plot. No, there could
Speaker 2: have been anybody, you know. It's it's like, you know
Speaker 2: in Masters of Universe the eighty seven to one, where
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, this kid won a contest. He's big
Speaker 2: boy in e Skeletoris Staff. Right, It's that level of
Speaker 2: condescending a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, because yeah, I'm sure she's a huge star, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, in her world, but like, yeah, she's not
Speaker 1: given a whole lot to do here, and you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like it's coming naturally to her either,
Speaker 1: which I mean it would be just as difficult for
Speaker 1: me to have to speak Mandarin phonetically, you know.
Speaker 2: Movie.
Speaker 1: So it's just it just kind of doesn't work for
Speaker 1: the camaraderie also that they're trying to build with the team, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, with one of the guys being in love
Speaker 1: with her, and it's just none of it works.
Speaker 2: So this this alien ship they I forget the however
Speaker 2: big it is. It's like as big as the Atlantic Ocean. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And they're like, how do we not see that, to
Speaker 2: which I say, yes, how did you not see that? Right?
Speaker 2: That's like too big? Yeah, like you've got all this
Speaker 2: alien technology. Wait, how do you miss that?
Speaker 1: That's I mean, yeah, we could see like Netflix satellites
Speaker 1: and things in the air, you know, ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. Here, here's the big scene that's
Speaker 2: gonna make China want to release this movie, right.
Speaker 1: I do remember I was lucky enough, lucky question Mark
Speaker 1: to read this script before it came out. Someone well
Speaker 1: you did, Yeah, someone gave it to me, and I
Speaker 1: think at the time you and I were just railing
Speaker 1: on movies for destroying cities and showing no consequences, where
Speaker 1: it's like, no, the world has changed, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: But it's just like, ah, we just blew up Paris,
Speaker 1: you know, moving on, and it's like we feel nothing.
Speaker 1: It's like, how do we feel nothing when you've just
Speaker 1: leveled a major city in the world. And so then
Speaker 1: I remember reading the script and it was basically like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Dubai is lifted up into the air and smashes down
Speaker 1: on London, and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, they did it, Zachy, those sons, they topped themselves.
Speaker 2: They didn't just level a city.
Speaker 1: They took a city, lifted it in the air, and
Speaker 1: smashed it into another city.
Speaker 2: Cut to Jeff Goldblum giggling maniacally Alla Jurassic Park. Yeah
Speaker 2: he did it. Now, I should say, I remember when
Speaker 2: we did our review episode and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Vivica Fox, I think I think she's a nurse in this,
Speaker 2: which is like really sexist and stupid, like she's clearly
Speaker 2: a doctor.
Speaker 3: Oh oh that's funny, So I should.
Speaker 2: I just want to like correct me from ten years ago.
Speaker 2: Oh that's wow, good memory that you remember that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's she's clearly a doctor. Yes, and you know what, hey,
Speaker 2: we're here to grow. Well, you know he is here.
Speaker 2: It is, by the way, sorry, you got the burge
Speaker 2: clear there you go smashing into the London Bridge and
Speaker 2: and it makes no impact.
Speaker 3: This should be an enormous deal.
Speaker 2: The scene earlier when we see the people being lifted up,
Speaker 2: I mean it's horrifying, yes, right, I mean it really is.
Speaker 2: I mean it's like end of the world shit, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, why don't you let us sit in this
Speaker 2: moment instead of this? It's just weird, right, because again
Speaker 2: it's like misreading by Emeric about why people responded to
Speaker 2: that first film.
Speaker 1: Like I said, when I remember the striper friend on
Speaker 1: the thing, like I'm sad, Like she's her eyes are
Speaker 1: drawn to this sparkly thing and she she's hopeful. I
Speaker 1: think she has a sign that's like welcome and she's
Speaker 1: about to die.
Speaker 2: And that that's like you watch it and you're like,
Speaker 2: what's going through her mind when this happens? Right, Yes,
Speaker 2: and so you go to that means it's working if
Speaker 2: you're having that thought one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So yes, seeing those people lift into the air, that
Speaker 1: is like why don't. We've got that moment where we
Speaker 1: get the cab driver and the person in the back,
Speaker 1: Like it's enough to like, Okay, I can I know,
Speaker 1: I can identify this person and follow them through this
Speaker 1: crazy haunting experience.
Speaker 2: What would you do?
Speaker 3: All the what would you do? Is gone?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, you know, and and again, And that's weird
Speaker 2: because as you said, it's not even like after the
Speaker 2: first film, Emeric just dipped from this genre. Right like
Speaker 2: his other times in he at least somewhat adhered to
Speaker 2: that template. And again it worked a lesser greater degrees,
Speaker 2: but but he it showed recognition of that. And so
Speaker 2: that's why when you look at this and you're like like, like,
Speaker 2: you know, the perfect example, this Salvage sub who we follow,
Speaker 2: who gives a crap about them? Right? Like, yeah, I agree,
Speaker 2: I like, they don't make a lot of weird storyline. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then jud Hirsh is in a whole different movie.
Speaker 2: I know. I know. Again it's it's like a COVID distance.
Speaker 1: You know, this does You're so spot on. This does
Speaker 1: feel like a COVID era movie.
Speaker 2: It feels like COVID era movie, I'm telling you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I mean we can get to it.
Speaker 1: But his his whole arc, if you can call it,
Speaker 1: that is basically to just show up at the wrong
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time.
Speaker 3: You know, like it's like I don't know, he doesn't.
Speaker 3: We'll get to it.
Speaker 2: We'll get to The thing is like, just as a
Speaker 2: fan of the first film, I was glad to see
Speaker 2: jud Hirsch beas.
Speaker 1: The same exactly right, that's great, and him selling his
Speaker 1: book like I figured it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that totally tracks with his character totally.
Speaker 2: But like this right here, this is see again if
Speaker 2: in the in the earlier film, the attack happens and
Speaker 2: there's just devastation, right, and we sit with that devastation. Yeah, so,
Speaker 2: as you said, right, Hong Kong has been dropped on London.
Speaker 2: That feels substantial. Yeah, that feels like something like the
Speaker 2: grief of that. We're talking about millions of people that
Speaker 2: have died, yeah already.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even right now we're watching the claw of
Speaker 1: this vessel, yeah, planting itself on Earth and it's like
Speaker 1: just pawing out cities as it's just you know, fixing
Speaker 1: itself into position. I mean, that's like thousands of people
Speaker 1: are dying right now.
Speaker 2: So here are we? Is this DC? Is this Washington?
Speaker 2: I mean, is this Los Angeles? Where are we? What
Speaker 2: city is this that? I don't know? Actually we should
Speaker 2: know that now. Now, the Vivica Fox character, this is
Speaker 2: I know we talked about this ten years ago. How
Speaker 2: do you not make her death a moment? I know,
Speaker 2: yes it should be.
Speaker 1: Really, I don't care if this movie is to our
Speaker 1: in twenty minutes if you make this stuff work right.
Speaker 2: Like right there, we see her die from a distance
Speaker 2: and he's like, no, mom, yeah, this is where I'm
Speaker 2: I'm like, look, I'm I'm not a professional director, but
Speaker 2: like you give us, you give us a close up.
Speaker 2: You get him close enough.
Speaker 3: Yes, they lock eyes.
Speaker 1: You get that Hans Grueber shot exactly and she's looking
Speaker 1: almost at camera, which is her son, and she drops
Speaker 1: out of you.
Speaker 2: That's what you do. So we can't be the only
Speaker 2: people who thought of that.
Speaker 1: Right unless it was some last minute decision. Maybe they didn't,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe she had a different outcome and they
Speaker 1: changed it, and so they I mean, actually, that feels
Speaker 1: like the only excuse for having a major character like
Speaker 1: that die as a little dot on the screen falling
Speaker 1: through a bill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, his his the character being like, you know,
Speaker 2: just get her, get there, get there whatever he's trying to,
Speaker 2: like the desperation he feels. That's great, you know. And
Speaker 2: and now he's an orphan, he's lost both his parents.
Speaker 2: That's all good stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you gotta have you gotta have the equations
Speaker 1: on the wall. When I worked at when I worked
Speaker 1: at Puppy Dog Pals, my office had like the the
Speaker 1: top two feet of the room, like leading up to
Speaker 1: the ceiling was glass, okay, and so it was private,
Speaker 1: but the top part of the thing had like a
Speaker 1: glass thing that went all the way around, and I
Speaker 1: just thought it'd be funny. So one day I took
Speaker 1: one of those you know, whiteboard markers, and I just
Speaker 1: started putting equations all over it so people would walk
Speaker 1: by and think that I was like Goodwill hunting.
Speaker 2: Prince Spiner. He showed up. That's well, this is this
Speaker 2: is the thing I because I was thinking about. First
Speaker 2: of all, it helps that his character in the old
Speaker 2: film had the same fright wig hair, so Brian Spiner
Speaker 2: twenty years later, like he basically looks exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. But this gets to you know, the benefits
Speaker 2: of being a character actor, right, Bran Speiner is one
Speaker 2: of those guys. Man, you plug him into whatever. He's
Speaker 2: going to give you a character, and for him he'll
Speaker 2: always have work.
Speaker 1: Yeah too. Yeah, he's been asleep since the last movie. Like, whoa,
Speaker 1: we have alien guns.
Speaker 2: See that's good. I like that. Yeah, me too. See.
Speaker 2: I think that if you have the alien technology has
Speaker 2: been stored away. Mmm right, so it hasn't really impacted
Speaker 2: the real world per se.
Speaker 1: You could even yeah, be like the world can't just
Speaker 1: suddenly have all of this. It would go crazy exactly.
Speaker 1: But they try to make it sound like it is
Speaker 1: a utopia because we have now a common enemy the
Speaker 1: whole world.
Speaker 2: So this scene here, I was thinking about this, yeah,
Speaker 2: because he's like, all right here I go. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: die now, you know. And then he wakes up in
Speaker 2: the hospital he's like, I'm still goddamn it. And that
Speaker 2: was bull pullman.
Speaker 1: They didn't he didn't realize the cameras were rolling. I
Speaker 1: got more days on this thing, son of a bitch.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about, like, I feel like it just
Speaker 2: going going back to what we were saying before. I
Speaker 2: think you reverse, you reverse this, So instead of him
Speaker 2: being like oh, strangle me so I'll talk. It's he
Speaker 2: uses the fact that he's got this mental connection where
Speaker 2: he goes in there and they're like, no, no, you're
Speaker 2: gonna die, and he he essentially is able to read
Speaker 2: its mind against its will. M Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I see my my thing is watching this. I'm like,
Speaker 2: if we're setting this, we're setting up the heroic sacrifice
Speaker 2: so much that the actual heroic sacrifice doesn't mean anything. Mmm.
Speaker 2: Because he's because he already stepped up for this. Yeah exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting, yeah right.
Speaker 2: And then and then later too, where he's like, somebody's
Speaker 2: got to die. I guess it's me, and it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, dude, we get it, you know, right right,
Speaker 2: because I was thinking even that when he dies, it
Speaker 2: should have been a Randy Quaid situation. Yes, like in
Speaker 2: the first film where this is the only option and
Speaker 2: he only realizes it when he's in it. Yes, you know, yes, agreed,
Speaker 2: Like we've lost our pilot, we've only got this plane
Speaker 2: from a certain era that nobody knows how to fly,
Speaker 2: and it's just like, well, you know, yeah, it's got
Speaker 2: to be me something like that, like like we almost
Speaker 2: got I mean you know, it kind of like Inforce
Speaker 2: Awakens right where you know Han and then they think
Speaker 2: they made it, remember they? And then and then he
Speaker 2: goes back in and then that ends up being how
Speaker 2: he dies. Yeah, right, right, something in that vein, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, totally it correct me if I'm wrong. Also
Speaker 1: the oh wait, that's but kind of grace right in
Speaker 1: the back. The little girl that is her. Wow, I
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, she's been around a very long time.
Speaker 2: I didn't even catch that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she has had a back of a career.
Speaker 2: Seriously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's been in all these major franchises. She's gonna
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo coming up. It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, and and her what's her name, Joy King? Yes, Joey.
Speaker 2: You know, I just I just rewatched The Dark Knight
Speaker 2: Rises last week and she was Yeah, she's baby Talia
Speaker 2: And that's right, that's right. I think last I remember
Speaker 2: her was Bullet Train. Oh yeah, she's in that. So
Speaker 2: she had been in White House Down a couple of
Speaker 2: years earlier. So that's there's the emmoric connection there. But
Speaker 2: that scene with the kids in the car, I said
Speaker 2: this ten years ago. It feels like there there was
Speaker 2: an introductory scene of those kids that somebody took out
Speaker 2: of like the editing timeline and forgot to reinsert it right, right,
Speaker 2: because it just kind of comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and gives jud Hursh something to do.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine actually if you was like you and
Speaker 1: your group of friends, even though you're underage or whatever,
Speaker 1: but like trying to make your way. You've just lost
Speaker 1: your family, and then this old man is like, i'll
Speaker 1: drive now, and you're like okay, he's like controlling the radio,
Speaker 1: and you're like.
Speaker 2: Well, it only works because they recognize him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it, yeah, from the book, right, yeah, still
Speaker 1: like okay, I mean we kind of had a thing
Speaker 1: going here, but all right.
Speaker 2: They had their own movie.
Speaker 1: Exactly did you read about Susan Sarandon. I guess she
Speaker 1: turned down a role in this from this, yeah, because
Speaker 1: she said it was incomprehensible.
Speaker 2: Well, she wasn't wrong.
Speaker 1: I thought this was funny. People don't know exactly what
Speaker 1: it was. Is from a Huffington Post interview, and people
Speaker 1: are guessing it's president yea, and so apparently she said
Speaker 1: when I read the script, I couldn't understand what was
Speaker 1: going on. I just couldn't understand it. Seriously, a lot
Speaker 1: of the people from the original one were not going
Speaker 1: to be doing it, and I read it and I
Speaker 1: just thought, no, I can't, I just can't.
Speaker 2: Well, I think she made the right choice. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: turns out it was actually the Queen Alien at the end. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, it would have just been a giant
Speaker 2: Susan Sarandon. That would have been the big twist. This
Speaker 2: doesn't even makes sense. She's like, I didn't even like
Speaker 2: the first movie, but that doesn't make sense. So so
Speaker 2: the Defense Secretary, his name is Patrick Saint Esprit. Uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's one of again. Like it's like, uh, you know
Speaker 2: the guy in the first film who well, the character's
Speaker 2: name is named Zicky. I forget the actor's name. He
Speaker 2: passed away, but he's certain, you know, resting bureaucrat face.
Speaker 2: Oh right, because I know him from a draft day
Speaker 2: from like a year or two before this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at him now. He's Commander Thread in
Speaker 1: The Hunger Games. Yeah, yeah, that's right, draft Day Green Zone.
Speaker 2: We were soldiers. He has that one character that he
Speaker 2: plays very well.
Speaker 3: This is like a guy he'll be working forever.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying he's got he's he's in that
Speaker 2: that Ed Lauder class. He just slot him in, you know,
Speaker 2: and and again, you know, I I think I think
Speaker 2: having great character actors just always benefits films in this
Speaker 2: way because you're just you just plug into their their energy.
Speaker 2: You know. See this here should be a more meaningful
Speaker 2: moment where Dylan is looking at now both of his
Speaker 2: parents are gone, and and it's supposed to be how
Speaker 2: him and Jake Jake's you know, and how they they reconnect.
Speaker 2: The problem is we don't really know about Jake. I
Speaker 2: think we're supposed to care about him in addition because
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's a taken, no guff bad boy
Speaker 2: with with with those deep blue eyes. But you know,
Speaker 2: because because the president's daughter likes him or whatever. But
Speaker 2: he is such a blank slate, both of them, both
Speaker 2: of them are a single blank slate. I think you.
Speaker 3: Should have made hillar.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna have the cocky guy, maybe make Hiller
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't believe in himself.
Speaker 2: Like I was thinking, right, if his dad is like
Speaker 2: the Savior.
Speaker 1: Has to live up to that legend exactly, and so
Speaker 1: it would be fun to watch a person they have
Speaker 1: the skill, they just need to find their confidence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and then they would feel very different from
Speaker 1: one another. You don't have two cocky guys going against
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: That might help. So maybe maybe you don't make him
Speaker 2: a fighter pilot and then and then you have that
Speaker 2: beat like at when it comes down to it, he
Speaker 2: has to take on that role mm hm. And you
Speaker 2: know he's got the trauma because of his father dying, right,
Speaker 2: because I think, what does it say, Hillar, when does
Speaker 2: it say he died?
Speaker 3: I think he died during a test flight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like not too long after the first film
Speaker 2: is my recollection. Yeah, so that means that he's carrying
Speaker 2: this trauma with him for a long time, and so
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to fly. But then he's forced into
Speaker 2: that role.
Speaker 1: Or maybe he did so he has the ability, but
Speaker 1: then he stepped away from it because that yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, like trauma. Yeah, so at least then at
Speaker 1: the end when he has to step up, he knows
Speaker 1: with the buttons do yeah right, yeah, but right now
Speaker 1: he just feels like generic hero guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's odd, you know, Yeah, I mean definitely like
Speaker 2: Hollywood was trying to make Liam Hemsworth happen because he
Speaker 2: was in one of the Expendables movies too, and I
Speaker 2: don't think it's really taken, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you know. Or maybe he's just
Speaker 1: not a leading man like maybe he'll do.
Speaker 2: Because he's in Hunger Games, right.
Speaker 3: The old ones or the new ones. I actually don't know.
Speaker 2: It isn't he I think he is.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this is someone who's not an expert
Speaker 1: on them.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen them, but I feel fairly certain that
Speaker 2: he is. But my point is he's not a he's
Speaker 2: not a leading man in those in those films.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. I mean,
Speaker 1: I believe you. I just didn't know. Gail Hawthorne.
Speaker 2: There you go. I'm sure like a younger generation right
Speaker 2: now is like idiot. There's people listening to this throwing
Speaker 2: shit at their device and they're right, they're right to
Speaker 2: do it. Yeah. And he replaced Cavil on the Witcher.
Speaker 2: I believe that's right, man. I totally forgot about that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that. Uh, you know, we're about to have
Speaker 2: you know, the the Aliens attack Giant Mountain and you
Speaker 2: know the whole line of succession gets wiped out. That
Speaker 2: really needed to be a bigger deal, you know, And
Speaker 2: I think it's weird to me again, like we know
Speaker 2: all the work that they did in the earlier film
Speaker 2: to build up you know, the the Whitmore President, so
Speaker 2: do the same thing with this. But the twist is
Speaker 2: that she dies. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good idea. Well
Speaker 2: that's that's perfect.
Speaker 1: Like you said, we get familiar beats that feel good
Speaker 1: to us for this world, but then yeah, subvert them
Speaker 1: a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, a little bit. Yeah, see this, this whole storyline
Speaker 2: with the with the salvage team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're kind of forgettable.
Speaker 2: Totally forgettable. They have no bearing on the rest of
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to comment on it because I can't
Speaker 1: even remember, so I believe you, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, it has no impact. I don't believe yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I was also thinking if that ship or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it is drilling into the Earth almost
Speaker 1: reaching the core, Yeah, doesn't that like forever change the
Speaker 1: stability of our planet?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, there's there's no coming back from that, right,
Speaker 2: Like I mean, like tons of ocean like leaking now
Speaker 2: into the center of the Earth. Like, yeah, that feels big.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm no expert, but well, to be fair, they
Speaker 1: wanted to make a sequel, so maybe they would have
Speaker 1: told us.
Speaker 2: Which I mean, the ending of this movie is like
Speaker 2: a threat. You know What's funny. By the way, I
Speaker 2: don't even know how, but I have this movie.
Speaker 1: So I well, probably my friend from Fox, but I
Speaker 1: think he might have give me a blue ray or something.
Speaker 1: But and so I just whenever I get a code,
Speaker 1: I always download the code. So my voodoo lockers yours
Speaker 1: is like brilliant and curated and filled with amazing things,
Speaker 1: and mine is just random stuff I got over the
Speaker 1: years for free, you know. And anyway, so I was
Speaker 1: watching it that way, and I saw there were bonus
Speaker 1: features and there's a bunch of deleted scenes.
Speaker 2: Did you see them? I did not. I saw that
Speaker 2: they existed, but by then I was quite quite done
Speaker 2: with this film.
Speaker 1: I watched one and I got about twenty seconds in
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't I don't have to
Speaker 1: do this, so I stopped. But one of them is,
Speaker 1: uh has Fred Armison in it? Fascinating I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that he would have injected some fun energy into this movie.
Speaker 2: I could see Fred Armison as doctor Oakin's son, you know, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: it's like a minime version of Oakin. Yeah ah ookod
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Something struck me and it's striking me again, So I'm
Speaker 1: just going to bring it up. But when what's his
Speaker 1: name Spiner back? Anyway, he's got this sackish oaken.
Speaker 2: You put some respect on his name, yes, Oakin.
Speaker 1: I'm like, so, what's the Why are we spending all
Speaker 1: this time on this saw that doesn't work? Just so
Speaker 1: he can go and get an go up a ladder
Speaker 1: and get another saw that and then go back down
Speaker 1: and try it again and then.
Speaker 3: It does work. Why are we spending minutes on this?
Speaker 2: I assume it's to show that this you know, apple
Speaker 2: poke ball that they're trying to slice through is difficult
Speaker 2: to open. Yeah, like human technology, regular human technology doesn't
Speaker 2: do it fair. But yeah, I have to use that.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming those more efficient ways. Yeah, no, yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess I see it. I think this part here, I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously the closest parallel with the earlier film is that
Speaker 2: first assault. You know that you have Will Smith and
Speaker 2: Harry Connick Junior, et cetera. You know that they lead
Speaker 2: against the ship. But you know, that sequence works partly
Speaker 2: because of kind of what we talked about, where it's
Speaker 2: there are ships there, they're earth ships, but also like it,
Speaker 2: the stakes are within scale. You know this, this feels
Speaker 2: like a third act sequence. Yes, that they've dropped into
Speaker 2: the middle of the movie. You know, and when you
Speaker 2: think about it, in the earlier film you have exactly this.
Speaker 2: You have the president and and you know, the cabinet
Speaker 2: members watching on a screen as as like icons drop out,
Speaker 2: you know, and yet that's so much more impactful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's one of them, like I'm watching this and
Speaker 2: I'm trying to just unravel it, like why isn't this landing?
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, by the way, so look at
Speaker 1: all this melee happening across the screen.
Speaker 2: Just blah.
Speaker 1: It reminded me of that incredible shot in Return of
Speaker 1: the Jedi during the final battle where you see the
Speaker 1: ship and there's just chaos happening and it's only one
Speaker 1: shot to make you go, holy crap, like this is
Speaker 1: a big deal. And also how did they do that?
Speaker 1: You know in nineteen eighty three, like that, Wow, look
Speaker 1: what they're capable of. But you can't have every shot
Speaker 1: look like that.
Speaker 2: I think that might be it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Every shot here looks like that crazy hard to follow
Speaker 1: shot like you do that in Jedi with one shot
Speaker 1: to help us understand how crazy this is. And then
Speaker 1: we focus on our heroes doing their thing, but here
Speaker 1: just because they can. Every shot looks like that, and
Speaker 1: then I don't know what to put my eyes on.
Speaker 2: That's really yeah, I think that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also thinking of the first movie, we're really well,
Speaker 1: we're endeared to Will Smith and that score.
Speaker 3: Is amazing, so I was going to bring that up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and then when it just becomes about him
Speaker 1: and this one ship and it's it's cool. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: a fighter jet and a UFO basically going off and
Speaker 1: having this crazy dog fight with one another. It's it's rousing,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's I'm getting like
Speaker 1: energized thinking about this other movie right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, you know that we care enough,
Speaker 2: we have just enough emotional attachment to Harry Connick Junior.
Speaker 2: Yes that you know when he takes a mask off
Speaker 2: and he's like, put your mask back on, and then
Speaker 2: he explodes and we feel it. Yep. Right, and that
Speaker 2: means something. And again this is where my boy Charlie
Speaker 2: he got to go mm hmm, yeah, he had to
Speaker 2: get exploded. Sorry Charlie, Sorry Charlie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But no, I think they pushed it too far to
Speaker 1: the point where we lose focus of what we're supposed
Speaker 1: to focus on. I think we don't care about these
Speaker 1: characters enough. I just think the craft was better in
Speaker 1: the first one.
Speaker 2: See and score, that's that's the So the David Arnold
Speaker 2: brought such an important identity to the first film that
Speaker 2: when you watch this film you realize that the only
Speaker 2: times the score really comes to life is when they
Speaker 2: when they pipe in the O G music. H So
Speaker 2: you know we hear a little bit of it here,
Speaker 2: not not in this part, but like later in the film,
Speaker 2: and then you know, over the end credits. And I
Speaker 2: remember watching this in theater being like, oh, that's what
Speaker 2: was missing, any of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And and I wonder was David Arnold like nope, sorry,
Speaker 2: uh I saw that.
Speaker 1: He mentioned on his own Twitter account he was not
Speaker 1: asked to score the sequel.
Speaker 2: That is baffling to me, Like, I think he dodged
Speaker 2: a bullet. Yeah, well, I mean but he missed a paycheck.
Speaker 2: He missed a paycheck. But I mean, but at this
Speaker 2: point he was doing the Bond film, so he's probably
Speaker 2: doing fine. Yeah, but but that's weird to me because Stargate,
Speaker 2: in Independence Day and Godzilla, all three of those movies,
Speaker 2: David Arnold elevates every single one of those experiences substantially.
Speaker 3: And those Bond scores are incredible. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So that's.
Speaker 2: Just weird, you know. Yeah, Like like it's funny because
Speaker 2: he didn't score The Patriot, right, and you're like, well,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you get David l oh Well, John Williams.
Speaker 2: That's why got right. That's like, that's the only acceptable substitute.
Speaker 2: If you got John Williams to do this, maybe I'm interested,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd like.
Speaker 1: To watch that again, The Patriot. I remember liking that movie.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in a while.
Speaker 2: I remember it feels like prestige meets Rollan Emeric.
Speaker 1: Yes in a successful way, right, a little elevated for
Speaker 1: a Rollin Emerick movie, but it still has the like,
Speaker 1: you know, sniveling bad guy, stupid boy. Yeah exactly exactly,
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I know, I.
Speaker 2: Know the Church put the people in the church and
Speaker 2: put it. But you're like, oh, that guy's gotta pay. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fine. I was watching a few minutes of that,
Speaker 2: and my oldest just like, hey, we've never seen this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe we will. Maybe we will. Son, Maybe
Speaker 2: maybe we will, boy, maybe we will. Yeah that was
Speaker 2: that was peek Mel Gibson, Oh, totally yeah. Right. It
Speaker 2: feels like there was sort of a rapid dissent that
Speaker 2: followed a shortly after her. Ye ye, well there you go.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so this sequence here again, you know, I
Speaker 2: think the missed opportunity is you've got a great actress
Speaker 2: and Celia a Ward and and this, so you know,
Speaker 2: we're at roughly the halfway point here the death of
Speaker 2: the president should really hit yeah, and and it just
Speaker 2: doesn't for whatever reason. I know, like like, you know,
Speaker 2: Patricia has a relationship with her. Clearly we don't see
Speaker 2: her react, you know, like, yeah, that's a good point,
Speaker 2: Like just just play it off of her face, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, the people come in to administer the oath
Speaker 2: to Fickner, and then we just see her face and
Speaker 2: maybe you know, she's we just see a tear rolling
Speaker 2: down her cheeks.
Speaker 3: Something you know something something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is they do have of books
Speaker 1: that came out after the first movie, So there have
Speaker 1: been sequels written.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're about.
Speaker 1: I didn't really dig into it that I thought that was
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating and I wonder what those stories were interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, there were sequel novels to Stargate
Speaker 2: before the television show started that I did read, and
Speaker 2: those were fascinating because especially like in light of the
Speaker 2: TV show, you see, because my sense is that they
Speaker 2: were based on Emeric and Devlin's ideas for what they
Speaker 2: would have done with Stargate. No interesting, so it just
Speaker 2: it went in a vastly different direction, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I would assume Independence Day is something similar. You know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of cool, I mean, especially if you're a fan.
Speaker 1: By the way, so the Fickener's swearing in thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like we didn't even get like a close up of
Speaker 1: like him hearing the news that the president has passed away.
Speaker 3: You know, it'd be kind of interesting. I don't know
Speaker 3: any I think.
Speaker 1: It's Elizabeth if you know, it's like, well, the president
Speaker 1: and is dead now and just seeing him go like
Speaker 1: Elizabeth like she's a person, yeah, you know, like and
Speaker 1: then it's like now it's you and him is standing
Speaker 1: straighter and like, okay, well I gotta do what I
Speaker 1: gotta do, like just something to bring some humanity into it.
Speaker 1: But it's we don't really get a reaction from him.
Speaker 1: He puts his hand on the Bible and then we're out,
Speaker 1: we cut to something else. It's like, now let's let's
Speaker 1: live in this here.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I think part of it, I mean
Speaker 2: it just Fickner is such a good actor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's just it helps that that he carries a
Speaker 2: certain gravitas, you know. H Like, I think it's interesting
Speaker 2: like in in the Dark Night he that could have
Speaker 2: been anybody.
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, yeah, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: Would you you think he's going to be a bigger character,
Speaker 1: right yeah?
Speaker 2: And I think it's just as now he's gonna bring
Speaker 2: like you're gonna remember him. H you know. Uh, So
Speaker 2: that that is that is frustrating that you know, we
Speaker 2: don't we don't do something more interesting with him, and
Speaker 2: and you know, have have Wit more be there as
Speaker 2: kind of a mentor figure m instead of like this
Speaker 2: right here, this is supposed to be the equivalent of
Speaker 2: the yes we will not go quietly speech. Yeah, man,
Speaker 2: does this suck? It? Does? You know?
Speaker 1: Not just for us as an audience, but I do
Speaker 1: wonder if you were there in that room, if you'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, he's like doing the thing, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is meeting the moment, Like
Speaker 1: this is kind of uncomfortable, you know.
Speaker 2: It feels like in Rise of Skywalker, where remember when
Speaker 2: when Orlando gives Poe like the inspirational.
Speaker 3: Speech oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes right, and.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like, I mean, that's not like raw
Speaker 2: Ra in this, but I feel like that hits certain
Speaker 2: beats that make it work. And this could have been
Speaker 2: at least at that level. But it's like the wrong
Speaker 2: time in the movie. It feels like yeah, yeah right,
Speaker 2: but it didn't have to be because we did just
Speaker 2: lose the president, Like this could be that that that
Speaker 2: really low moment and we're seeing everybody like all is lost,
Speaker 2: Like what holds do we have? So you give that
Speaker 2: angst to William Fickner. Yeah, and then you have whitmore
Speaker 2: coming in yes right, yes, and be the Lando Yep,
Speaker 2: you fixed it. You're very good at this, that's I
Speaker 2: have to say whenever. I mean, I was not expecting
Speaker 2: to revisit this ten years later and be like, holy shit,
Speaker 2: what a hidden gem I missed? You know, I say,
Speaker 2: figured my opinion would stay the same, but I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like we'll have an interesting discussion same.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I don't regret rewatching it.
Speaker 2: It is fascinating.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes this is some of the most interesting
Speaker 1: things we can do. I'm just I don't know if
Speaker 1: it is anybody else, but for me and you like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool to watch this and go, wait,
Speaker 1: why is this not working? Let's think about it. Let's spitball.
Speaker 1: What what could we tweak that's already here? How can
Speaker 1: we tweak this and get it on track? That's always
Speaker 1: kind of a fun exercise with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well what we're seeing right there? With that,
Speaker 2: with that again that that apple poke ball, this other
Speaker 2: race is involved, right yes, And to me, this is
Speaker 2: probably the single most interesting part of the story is
Speaker 2: that other races that these freakin' assholes have have conquered
Speaker 2: have sought us out because because they're like, we're the
Speaker 2: only ones who've defeated them. Help us Yep, that's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I think you need to give us a window
Speaker 2: into that, you know, like show us even if it's
Speaker 2: like on a screen, like in that thing, showing images
Speaker 2: of all these other worlds that have been raised by
Speaker 2: by these aliens. Right, Yeah, but the problem is forget
Speaker 2: these like quote unquote good guy aliens. We don't get
Speaker 2: any insight into them. We don't get any additional insight
Speaker 2: into the bad guy aliens. Yeah at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just yeah creatures in shadow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like I think I think that's you're missed opportunity, right,
Speaker 2: because like the film, this one starts with you know,
Speaker 2: the the alien queen or whatever you know, comes across
Speaker 2: the first film on TBS or something gets pissed off.
Speaker 2: Actually what happens. Yeah, it's like and there's Pullman's speech
Speaker 2: and they get all mad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like being being through space or something, right,
Speaker 3: and they.
Speaker 2: Which I mean literally because it's like the exact footage
Speaker 2: from the movie. Yeah, how did they get that footage?
Speaker 2: You know that's funny because that's in Godzilla the Emeric
Speaker 2: and Devil in Godzilla, if you remember, it's a plot
Speaker 2: point about how there's like the footage of the old
Speaker 2: Japanese man. Do you remember this?
Speaker 3: It's like Quotira, Yeah, I do remember the man, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like that footage, Like it's like they
Speaker 2: it's like the characters in the movie have the rushes
Speaker 2: from the movie, right, right, right, because it's the exact
Speaker 2: same angle. It's like what we saw in the movie,
Speaker 2: right right, that's something similar here, you know, but based
Speaker 2: on what we've seen the original film, the sense is
Speaker 2: like they're not They don't think of us as as
Speaker 2: as intelligent species. We're just insects to be to be eradicated, right,
Speaker 2: So what would make them want revenge? Right? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's like there's something interest there. Right, this is the
Speaker 2: first time they've had somebody defeat them, and now they
Speaker 2: realize there's more twists than you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like because their plan is different in this one. Oh,
Speaker 2: they're doing the drilling into the you know, the core
Speaker 2: or whatever. Well they didn't do that before.
Speaker 1: Right, and that it's like for an energy source, right, right,
Speaker 1: So what's different like get into that right? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess it's hard to reconcile why it took them
Speaker 1: twenty years to retaliate, but maybe it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be twenty years.
Speaker 2: That's that's a good point. Actually, didn't need to be
Speaker 2: twenty years. I do like that though. Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: their first defeat. Well maybe not.
Speaker 1: I guess it's this other species that defeated them once.
Speaker 1: But well, so they're being they need help because they
Speaker 1: know how to defeat them, but they're being sort of
Speaker 1: pummeled for it, I guess yeah, and so maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: now they're going to retaliate against us, and they can say, like,
Speaker 1: that's what they do. You hold them off you that's great,
Speaker 1: but they come back and they come back harder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see that's interesting. Yeah, and it's like we we
Speaker 2: got cocky mm hmmm, because we're like, hey, we kick
Speaker 2: their asses and it's been twenty years they haven't come
Speaker 2: back and we just weren't ready.
Speaker 3: And now we have flying cars and everything's cool, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do love what Emeric does really well is he
Speaker 1: makes his movies worldwide stories, and like you were saying
Speaker 1: earlier with the Warlord character, I do like that he
Speaker 1: his experience.
Speaker 3: You know, the world's a big place.
Speaker 1: He had a different experience over there with these aliens
Speaker 1: because that ship actually touched down. Yeah, right, So he's
Speaker 1: got a different skill set than the people in Washington,
Speaker 1: DC versus someone over in France or you know, right,
Speaker 1: And so I do like him being incorporated here because
Speaker 1: he's got a skill set and just you know, the
Speaker 1: ragtag group of people that would otherwise never be together.
Speaker 1: That is a fun thing. I don't know it's used
Speaker 1: to its fullest potential, but it is fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, well I said before, I mean that that
Speaker 2: would have been an interesting movie to see, you know see,
Speaker 2: And I wonder about that too, right, did they just
Speaker 2: wait too long? I mean we were talking about this before.
Speaker 2: Was is it simply like, you know, you should have
Speaker 2: come back ten years later with a sequel and kind
Speaker 2: of prime the pump a little bit, make this a living,
Speaker 2: breathing franchise as opposed to a thing twenty years later
Speaker 2: after people stopped caring. You know, it's interesting. I saw that.
Speaker 1: I guess Fox paid Dean devil In a lot of
Speaker 1: money to write a script for a sequel, and he
Speaker 1: did finish one, but he didn't feel good about it
Speaker 1: and he gave the money back, So.
Speaker 2: For him, I actually that's pretty Yeah. I respect that.
Speaker 1: But then, yes, I guess about fifteen years later, he's like, wait,
Speaker 1: I think I might have cracked this. Talked to Emeric,
Speaker 1: but time had moved on a little bit. Will Smith
Speaker 1: had a busy schedule. Yeah, and even Emeric has said that,
Speaker 1: you know, not having Smith, we probably.
Speaker 2: Shouldn't have done it, shouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1: He's like, we had a much better script, and then
Speaker 1: once he was out, we cobbled together something really quickly,
Speaker 1: and that's just not the way to make a movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was reading about how well, I mean, there's
Speaker 2: like five credited you know, writers on it, so you
Speaker 2: already know it's kind of a Frankenstein monster everything. But
Speaker 2: they had James Vanderbilt, who did White House Down, Okay,
Speaker 2: essentially take the script they had and basically remove Will
Speaker 2: Smith from it. And so you do wonder, well, what
Speaker 2: did it look like when Stephen Hiller was a character?
Speaker 1: Wow, you just unlocked something in my brain. I feel
Speaker 1: like the version of the script I read had Will
Speaker 1: Smith's son in it still, but they were like held
Speaker 1: captive somewhere in like a big football stadium, like they
Speaker 1: had been turned into a prison camp.
Speaker 2: Interesting. The sun is, yeah, well.
Speaker 1: That was just I'm like having a vision like something
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about in ten years or something, but
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I just remember that visual.
Speaker 2: In my mind.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure there are a lot of versions of this.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I did try to find if there was a script
Speaker 1: online with the Will Smith Hiller character in it.
Speaker 2: But I couldn't find one. Okay, Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 2: it's clear like there there's business that that the you know,
Speaker 2: the fighter pilot portion of the story would clearly have
Speaker 2: involved him in some way, shape or form. But I just,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I wonder what the relationship is
Speaker 2: between him and the Sun do you do you have them?
Speaker 2: Is strange? Maybe like it's this, you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: Jake and Dylan in this movie, but maybe it's it's
Speaker 2: Hiller senior and the younger one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who has feels like he can't live up or
Speaker 3: he's living.
Speaker 2: In a shadow of Maverick, Maverick and Ruth exactly. Yeah. Yeah, right, yeah, So,
Speaker 2: well she's a pilot. There's a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of our characters are pilots here. A lot of these
Speaker 2: people could do this. Yeah. See, so so this is
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. Yeah, I was gonna say, I
Speaker 2: I want you to talk me through this. So the
Speaker 2: idea here is somebody has to go in there, but
Speaker 2: it's certain depth. And he's like, well, then I'm going
Speaker 2: to do it. And I'm like, I think that's a
Speaker 2: mistake because we're just waiting for him to die.
Speaker 3: Then oh I see, I see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you get what I'm saying, Like like, if
Speaker 2: it's if it's let me put it asuy. If if
Speaker 2: he's doing the noble sacrifice knowingly, then you don't have
Speaker 2: him die. But if he's going to succeed sacrificing himself,
Speaker 2: you don't telegraph.
Speaker 1: It, yes, because then all the tension is gone and
Speaker 1: all the emotion is gone because that's what he signed
Speaker 1: up to do, and then he does it and then
Speaker 1: over right, Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2: So to me that that's so number one, that earlier
Speaker 2: scene with the when he goes into the chamber, you
Speaker 2: don't have that be a suicidal situation. You have it
Speaker 2: like they think he's he's in danger, but he's actually
Speaker 2: in full control. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's like tell me
Speaker 2: and then he you know, and then and then he
Speaker 2: he has this moment he's like looking it into its
Speaker 2: eyes and then and then the door opens he's like
Speaker 2: this is their plan.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm right, I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's that. And then here again, either you
Speaker 2: have him say all right, I'm going to sacrifice myself
Speaker 2: and then at the last minute it's not or again
Speaker 2: if you if you, I'm fine either way. As far
Speaker 2: as whether Whitmore lives or dies, my only thing is
Speaker 2: how does it happen for manimum impact? For what's what's
Speaker 2: the most emotional impact? Yeah? Yeah, you know, because again
Speaker 2: say what you will. I think I think Han Solo's
Speaker 2: death hits on an emotional level and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: why what what makes that work? Let's reverse engineer that.
Speaker 2: And I think that's you know, it's it's because it
Speaker 2: because it's like at that moment again, he's not like
Speaker 2: going into it like all right, this is my suicide mission.
Speaker 2: It's when he steps onto the catwalk, you're like, oh no, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know what's about to happen, right, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Yet you're still you know, leaning forward and listening, you know,
Speaker 1: hanging on every word between them and hoping it won't happen.
Speaker 1: It still makes you believe maybe it might not exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so on top of all of that, with
Speaker 2: with whitmore, the heroic sacrifice ends up being meaningless.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna die in forty five minutes. See
Speaker 1: you there. It's basically what you're saying, right.
Speaker 2: Really, that's what it is. Yeah, live stream, you know,
Speaker 2: to go out and and and and he doesn't accomplish anything.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's freaking bullshit. This is weird, right, because
Speaker 2: watching this, I was literally like, was there a writer's
Speaker 2: strike or something like? No? Right, because sometimes you can
Speaker 2: write off some of these decisions right, right, you know,
Speaker 2: because it's just pencils down, right, because I think that's
Speaker 2: what happened with Terminator Salvation, right, Yeah, that feels right.
Speaker 2: The timing area it up. It's like, I don't think
Speaker 2: there's a writer's strike. No, it was just shitty story construction.
Speaker 1: And also maybe just like you know, out of this
Speaker 1: thing's in motion, it's going to happen at this point.
Speaker 1: Maybe they put a lot of money into pre production
Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing, and it's like, no, this,
Speaker 1: we're going to put this out on this date, figure
Speaker 1: out what it is, versus ever feeling good about what
Speaker 1: they had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and clearly they didn't feel good about what they had.
Speaker 2: But because Yeah, they're they're open about it. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean it went into production, they assumed the name, the
Speaker 2: name of the film would get people in theaters, so
Speaker 2: they wildly overestimated how much demand there was. Yeah, without
Speaker 2: again a big star really out there selling, and you
Speaker 2: kind of you realize, you know, the marketing environment for
Speaker 2: selling movies has obviously changed a lot, but certainly now
Speaker 2: in you know, ten years after the movie came out.
Speaker 2: You know, when you watch YouTube, there's a movie coming out,
Speaker 2: and you see all like the YouTube shows that stars
Speaker 2: show up on you know what I mean, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: hot ones or oh looking back at their career whatever,
Speaker 2: and you realize, like how important that visibility is. And
Speaker 2: so who in this movie had the kind of sort
Speaker 2: of algorithmic reach to break through other than Will Smith?
Speaker 1: Yeah, or I mean maybe they were hoping one would
Speaker 1: this would be their moment, but it's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: none of these characters even have strong enough a moment
Speaker 1: in this movie too.
Speaker 3: You know, you walk away remembering what they do.
Speaker 2: I mean I said this previously, but you know, this
Speaker 2: is a year out from Phantom from Force Awakens, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, imagine Force Awakens, but you you don't like
Speaker 2: Ray Poe or Finn right right, or Kylo Wren.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing good. I was thinking that
Speaker 1: actually right now. And this is I kept thinking of
Speaker 1: Starship Troopers for some reason when I was watching this,
Speaker 1: Like at least that gang has an understandable chummy vibe
Speaker 1: so that when they experience highs and lows and losses,
Speaker 1: it's you know, as goofy as that movie is, you're
Speaker 1: tracking with it and you feel it to some degree.
Speaker 1: But here we should be feeling great for this gang,
Speaker 1: like our gang is together and they're in this crazy
Speaker 1: scare and they have to do this thing. They have
Speaker 1: to pull this off to save the world. But like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't feel anything for these people, yeah,
Speaker 1: or or they're friendships, that's you know, I don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I'm repeating himself in that, but you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Right, No, I I understand what you're saying. And I
Speaker 2: think the problem is that Dylan should really be our
Speaker 2: end to these other characters. So you make Dylan, Like, okay,
Speaker 2: so probably you don't cast Jesse Usher and or you
Speaker 2: have a better script, so that's like step one, right,
Speaker 2: But you make Dylan likable and then and then we
Speaker 2: meet the other characters through him. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, the great Dylan Hiller, like we're all aware of
Speaker 1: your dad, you know kind of thing he's got. He's
Speaker 1: he's working against something. But then he proves himself and
Speaker 1: they had this undeniable bond in friendship. And then they
Speaker 1: go into hell together and come out and it feels so.
Speaker 2: And I I think it's all it's a mistake to
Speaker 2: have this sort of this uh not rivalry is the
Speaker 2: wrong word, but like you know, him and Jake like
Speaker 2: don't don't get along. Yeah, and then they they work
Speaker 2: through it because I think it's more interesting if they're
Speaker 2: buddies and we get to see how they're you know,
Speaker 2: one kind of has this gear, the other has this gear.
Speaker 2: And the Charlie character is totally unessential, don't need him
Speaker 2: at all. Yeah, we focus on on these two, but
Speaker 2: it's it's I'm I'm like, you realize, like it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: the angela baby character, we need her because you know China,
Speaker 2: and but we need her to I guess we need
Speaker 2: this Charlie character because otherwise she's just there, she's.
Speaker 1: Not yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know
Speaker 1: it's funny though, because I feel like that Charlie character
Speaker 1: in this version, we do need him because otherwise there's
Speaker 1: nothing interesting happening with any of those people. I at
Speaker 1: least he has a twinge of personality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that personality would have mattered when he died. Oops.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, sorry, Patty, I have to go die now.
Speaker 1: He should have just kept saying it just to continually
Speaker 1: take away the impact.
Speaker 2: For the rest of the movie. Well, dying to save
Speaker 2: the planet. Literally, no, seriously, I'm about to Oh look,
Speaker 2: there's a Snickers bar in here, my last Snickers bar. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so random, Judd jud Hirsh So I'm like,
Speaker 1: his whole thing is I got to get.
Speaker 3: To my boy why Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: And there's no point in anything he's just It almost
Speaker 2: makes him look stupid because now he's gonna screw up
Speaker 2: the whole plan just by arriving when he had no
Speaker 2: reason to need to arrive, or he's not holding some
Speaker 2: secret that's gonna help, or like you're wrong, your calculations
Speaker 2: are wrong, Like usually that would be what this person
Speaker 2: would be doing, and they've got to get there. Definitely that,
Speaker 2: But all you needed was one scene earlier in the
Speaker 2: film where Julius and David talk to each other and
Speaker 2: David says, you got to get here or don't try
Speaker 2: to come here some right, yeah, either one of those, yep,
Speaker 2: because they don't actually speak until like, you know, five
Speaker 2: minutes from now.
Speaker 1: And it's basically like, what are you doing here? You're
Speaker 1: like messing everything up exactly right.
Speaker 2: So it's either you need to get here and Julius
Speaker 2: is like, Okay, I got to get there no matter what,
Speaker 2: or again, you know, stay away from here and Julius like, no,
Speaker 2: I have this vital information I need to tell you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Either one of those, totally yeah. Otherwise it
Speaker 1: just makes them look foolish.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really. It feels like they signed jud Hirsh
Speaker 2: and then they were like oh shit, oh shit. They
Speaker 2: got the draft turned in and he was like, well
Speaker 2: this wait jud Hirsh gets the pages. He's like, uh uh, Fellas,
Speaker 2: just I noticed something. Yeah, I don't I don't want
Speaker 2: to ruffle any feathers, but I notice a lack of me.
Speaker 2: I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I like that
Speaker 2: you got a jut Hirsh. This is the moment Zachie,
Speaker 2: this is the moment. Use it. Use it as much
Speaker 2: as you can, because in twenty minutes, I don't know
Speaker 2: how often you're gonna be able to pull that one
Speaker 2: out by jut hirsh impression.
Speaker 3: But look at all this terrible lighting on everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's clearly on a sound stage, they might
Speaker 2: as well I've shot this in the volume. Yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it just just just go to the desert to
Speaker 2: set some cameras up. What are you doing? I know,
Speaker 2: I know, it's it. It's baffling. See some of this,
Speaker 2: I'm confused. Some of it does look like it's outside.
Speaker 2: This does not at all. No, this This was the
Speaker 2: moment where I was like, is this shot during COVID?
Speaker 2: That was you know, not these guys again. But I do.
Speaker 2: I like this plan.
Speaker 1: You know, when this plan was being set up and
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, we'll have the decoy and then we'll
Speaker 1: put the bomb in this thing and it'll be we'll
Speaker 1: put the shields around it.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I love like a really clear plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes movies just feel like they have to
Speaker 1: overcomplicate things, and I was like, this is this is good?
Speaker 2: I like this. Yeah, I think the broad strokes of
Speaker 2: the plan work. I think that see okay, so here sorry,
Speaker 2: last talk with my daughter, see I can right, like, no,
Speaker 2: you have them together. And then he makes a last
Speaker 2: second thing to sacrifice himself to save his daughter.
Speaker 1: Yes and maybe yes, they're racing together, and maybe he
Speaker 1: dings her wing or something, forcing her to have to
Speaker 1: eject so he can go forward.
Speaker 2: See again, you give him the the Russell Case Randy
Speaker 2: Quaid sacrifice, which is really still all these years later,
Speaker 2: really impactful in his kids hearing him over the radio,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, you know, when he processes what he's
Speaker 2: about to do, and then he says, I want you
Speaker 2: to tell my children I love them very much. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: It's great, totally right, And so you give I mean,
Speaker 2: and it's appropriate because Russell Case sacrifices himself for the president,
Speaker 2: and so now you give that moment, you know, you
Speaker 2: give that moment to the president in this one.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and it'd be yep, surprising and emotional. We
Speaker 1: love this character. We're already attached to him because of
Speaker 1: two movies.
Speaker 2: Like like literally you have In his final moment, he
Speaker 2: says something like like never stop flying or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, ah, they've been really sweet, right yeah.
Speaker 2: Like like even even you know, on Behalf of the
Speaker 2: People of Earth Happy Fourth of July. I think that
Speaker 2: all works, but it only works if it actually works.
Speaker 2: And so the fact that he blew himself up, it's
Speaker 2: like the guy in conk Skull Island, remember, yes Shay
Speaker 2: Wigham character, he gives himself the heroic sacrifice and it
Speaker 2: doesn't amount to shit. Yeah, he gets like flicked away
Speaker 2: then blown up. Which it's so funny because people take
Speaker 2: that clip out of context and they're like, what a
Speaker 2: stupid he would you know, And I'm like, well, I
Speaker 2: think it was meant like the film was critiquing the
Speaker 2: whole idea of the heroic sacrifice. Again, the context of
Speaker 2: the film, it works. It's just but if you if
Speaker 2: you're doing a freaking TikTok thing, right right? Yeah you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, By the way, this is totally going to be
Speaker 1: like a little dated already, but I got to ask
Speaker 1: you this when you brought up TikTok. Have you seen
Speaker 1: the trailer for the movie Hext, that new Disney animated movie.
Speaker 2: No, I have not.
Speaker 1: So I've seen online where people are pointing out that
Speaker 1: every almost every shot in that trailer, the character is
Speaker 1: dead center in the middle of the screen, which they're like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's unusual framing. And now they're wondering if it was
Speaker 1: done intentionally so it'd be easy to dice it up
Speaker 1: into TikTok clips.
Speaker 2: Fascinating? Is that interesting? I wonder? I love these conspiracies.
Speaker 2: It's like this conspiracy I just found out about recently
Speaker 2: where the reason uh Disney called the movie Frozen frozen
Speaker 2: was so that if you googled Disney Frozen, the first
Speaker 2: thing that came up wouldn't be about Walt Disney's frozen
Speaker 2: head right right, right right, which is just bonkers enough
Speaker 2: to maybe be true.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, even with the TikTok hex thing
Speaker 3: when it.
Speaker 2: Comes to Susan Sarandon character by the way, okay, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: let's look at this.
Speaker 1: There's like an overhead sort of helicopter looking shot of it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, it looks good
Speaker 1: with the I think maybe because that that was cool.
Speaker 2: That's a cool shot, and I think I don't mind
Speaker 2: it in isolation, but it feels totally dissonant that suddenly
Speaker 2: we're in like a Kaiju movie. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 2: can't disagree, but I don't. I mean, that's on the
Speaker 2: list of critiques, that's a very small one.
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, Well, I think you know what
Speaker 1: I'm realizing. Why I'm reacting so strongly to it is
Speaker 1: because of what we said right from the very beginning
Speaker 1: of this commentary, which is nothing on in this movie
Speaker 1: feels grounded right down to these people existing in the desert.
Speaker 1: Even that doesn't feel like that's real, right, because it
Speaker 1: feels like they're inside a stage with like a fake
Speaker 1: light simulating the sun and it looks phony. However, that
Speaker 1: shot because it's probably not real, it was made a computer,
Speaker 1: but it looks like it's in an actual earth bound environment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exciting to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I I think that you know it. It's
Speaker 2: it's a little bit like remember the the Predator movie,
Speaker 2: the Shane Black one. I remember parts of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: admittedly I'm kind of with you, but there's like a
Speaker 2: super size predator in that, like, like you know, most
Speaker 2: predators are like.
Speaker 3: A tall dude, yeah right, yeah, like seven foot or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it's like a twenty foot tall predator. Wow,
Speaker 2: you know, what.
Speaker 3: I don't remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't blame you, but I remember watching
Speaker 2: that mean like that, I don't that doesn't work for me.
Speaker 2: Mm yeah it it doesn't fit with with what we
Speaker 2: know of this this universe. Yeah. Yeah, So I think
Speaker 2: I have a similar reaction to this where I'm okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I you know what, you just made me understand your position.
Speaker 1: I totally get it. I mean, I still like the
Speaker 1: way it looks, but at this point I'm like, at
Speaker 1: least I'm enjoying the way something looks in here.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I get it. It doesn't well.
Speaker 2: I think I think the design of the creatures just
Speaker 2: to just to kind of echo what you're saying. I
Speaker 2: think Patrick to Topless made a really interesting creature in
Speaker 2: that original film. Totally agree, And it stands out and
Speaker 2: we haven't seen a lot of in the years since.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like a Cloverfield thing where a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of things look just like it. You know,
Speaker 2: the Independence Day aliens do you know they're kind of
Speaker 2: in their own lane. M h yep.
Speaker 1: They're like a nice hybrid of a humanoid slash the
Speaker 1: Grays kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's all the grays and the xenomorphs. Yep.
Speaker 2: You put them in a blender and you get something
Speaker 2: kind of interesting, you know. Yep. I like it. I
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: Wait, so do they end up shooting it in the
Speaker 1: back because the Warlord character keeps talking about gotta get
Speaker 1: him from the back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And because this whole it's like a armor. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh is that how he gets through? I couldn't remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, because the alien the sorry, yeah, the
Speaker 2: Warlord is like, yeah, you have to get him from
Speaker 2: the back. See this, this sequence here is really where
Speaker 2: a killer score would have helped. Yeah, you know, totally well.
Speaker 1: And your sacrifice thing with the president, I mean, if
Speaker 1: we were having carrying that in our hearts right now.
Speaker 2: That yeah, it's just real. That's frustrating. I mean, I
Speaker 2: mean the most emotional death in this film is coming
Speaker 2: up here with with Oaken's husband. I was going to
Speaker 2: say that I'd kind of forgot about this character.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but watching.
Speaker 1: Them say goodbye to each other, I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: like that was really nice. It's very as well written
Speaker 1: as well acted. I really felt something.
Speaker 2: That's That's what I'm saying, Like I'm like, Brent Spiner
Speaker 2: gets the most range to play in this film. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw somebody online had cut together a montage of
Speaker 2: Liam Neeson, Liam Neeson, Liam Hemsworth yelling in this movie.
Speaker 2: Oh really, he does do that a lot. I didn't
Speaker 2: even pick up on that. Yeah, it was shoot. Where
Speaker 2: did I see that? I can't remember now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like, no matter where these people are standing
Speaker 1: in the desert, there's always a shadow on their face,
Speaker 1: even when they're facing one another.
Speaker 3: It's like, that's not how light works.
Speaker 2: That's such a good point, right, Like, just when when
Speaker 2: you drop something fantastical into an environment that that we
Speaker 2: read as real, it makes such a difference in how
Speaker 2: we process totally totally, because even if we're talking about
Speaker 2: like a desert, right like at the end of the
Speaker 2: original film, you know when when Will Smith and Jeff
Speaker 2: Goldman's characters they crashed in the desert, looks like a
Speaker 2: real desert, you know. See, so this guy he's had
Speaker 2: it's his arc, not the warlord, the nerd in a screech, yeah, screech.
Speaker 2: It's such a like tropy arc, you know. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is right here, right, It's sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you know, and because they've spent some real
Speaker 1: time on it.
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that we established that the whole time
Speaker 2: Brent Spiner was in a coma, he was looking after him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is it's it doesn't even take up that
Speaker 1: much time, right, you know, but they just didn't take
Speaker 1: the care with these other guys for some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It kind of what you said before, right, like,
Speaker 2: give us, give us fifty teen additional minutes of character
Speaker 2: development and see how much it makes the other two
Speaker 2: hours go down easier.
Speaker 1: Oh totally, you won't feel it if it's worth it. Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot. That is such a good line, the h
Speaker 1: where he gave him that scarf and he's like, I've
Speaker 1: got something I got to tell you. This was supposed
Speaker 1: to be a sweater. What a beautiful, sad, funny last line.
Speaker 1: That's great, that's great. Yeah, the writer should have saved
Speaker 1: that for another movie.
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that that was James Vanderbilt who wrote
Speaker 2: that line. I mean, he's a good writer. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I interviewed him. Oh gosh, what must have been like
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. I can't remember. It's for the movie truth. Wait,
Speaker 2: remind me that's that's about sixty minutes and they did it.
Speaker 2: It's Kate Blanchett and Robert Redford. Robert Redford plays Dan
Speaker 2: rather Man.
Speaker 3: That's like on the tip of my brain, but okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about how sixty minutes thought they had proved
Speaker 2: that George W. Bush had lied about his National Guard service. Okay,
Speaker 2: and the subsequent what ends up happening. It resulted in
Speaker 2: Dan rather having to leave CBS. Okay, feels like such
Speaker 2: a quaint journalistic expose story given all the fucking bullshit
Speaker 2: that's going on right now. But anyway, I interviewed him
Speaker 2: about that film. He because he wrote and directed it.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so that would have been before this. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure. I feeling actually, I don't want to say
Speaker 2: the wrong thing on me.
Speaker 1: Look that up by the way, credit where credits do
Speaker 1: When we see this swarm of ships around the queen,
Speaker 1: looks pretty good, I agree, Unlike the confusing, disorienting melee earlier.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of stuff happening, but I can
Speaker 1: make sense of all of it, and it makes sense
Speaker 1: story wise, and I think it looks really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a broad sense of what we're trying.
Speaker 2: I accomplish which I think helps so truth. I should
Speaker 2: say it came out twenty fifteen, okay, the year before.
Speaker 2: I remember when I talked to him. I was a
Speaker 2: big fan of White House Down, and that was a
Speaker 2: movie that underperformed, but I was like a champion of
Speaker 2: that movie. And I think I've told you this. There's
Speaker 2: one line in there that always cracks me up. It's
Speaker 2: where the terrorists. It's like James Wood is their leader
Speaker 2: and Jason Clark is like the grunt, you know, okay,
Speaker 2: and so they're trying to capture the president who's played
Speaker 2: by Jamie Fox. He got away and so James Wood's
Speaker 2: so Jason Clark is getting all mad, like, oh he
Speaker 2: got away, and James was like, just relax, we'll find
Speaker 2: him here. You want some cake, And Jason Clark goes, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want cake. I have diabetes. I remember that, yeah,
Speaker 2: And just I was in the theater and I was like,
Speaker 2: I just thought it was so funny. So I told
Speaker 2: him that, and he was just delighted by that. I
Speaker 2: should rewatch that.
Speaker 1: I saw it when it came out, and I remember
Speaker 1: enjoying it, but I don't remember a thing about it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like it knows what it is
Speaker 2: and it's good at being what it is, you know. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: because it was one of two White House diehard movies, you.
Speaker 3: Know, oh yeah, that's right, right, the one with Gerard Butler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Olympus Has Fallen. I thought was like trying
Speaker 2: to play you know, that's the one where they're beating
Speaker 2: up what's her name, Melissa Leo and she's like, God,
Speaker 2: bless America. You know. I'm like, oh my god too.
Speaker 2: You can't do Ernest here, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And I remember it was like, yeah, the type of
Speaker 2: movie where they take like a big dagger and stick
Speaker 2: it in someone the top of their skull. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, good, all right, that's what this that's
Speaker 2: what this is. That's what this is, right, Yeah. See
Speaker 2: see I was thinking about how, you know, in the
Speaker 2: in the original film, right, we get Russell Case does
Speaker 2: his big sacrifice play the mothership explodes, right, but the
Speaker 2: true ending is just you know, Stephen Hiller and David
Speaker 2: Levin and are on the the ship in space and
Speaker 2: it's you know, and then it's about whether they get out,
Speaker 2: you know. So in others you follow a big, a
Speaker 2: big explodeing thing with the well, I mean, there is
Speaker 2: another big exploding thing, but it's just the two characters
Speaker 2: and then they decide, okay, we're going to sacrifice ourselves, right,
Speaker 2: and then and then it's whether they escape or not.
Speaker 2: And I think that structurally that works better because we're
Speaker 2: more invested in those two characters. Right, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: fundamentally here it's like again we're back with these this
Speaker 2: salvage crew. Yeah, they don't do anything, Like, what's the
Speaker 2: point of them? It's so weird, you're totally right. Wow. Right,
Speaker 2: So the third act really just kind of falls in
Speaker 2: on itself because it's very clear they did not know
Speaker 2: how to end the movie, right because of the way.
Speaker 2: You know, Brent Spiner comes running up and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, you know, like yeah.
Speaker 1: Right right, you know, yeah, we're going to warn another galaxy.
Speaker 2: Yay. It's you know, it's it's it's like the end
Speaker 2: of Rise of Skywalker, right, Like, why does that not
Speaker 2: really hit because it's just we've seen it before. Oh look,
Speaker 2: the Emperor is dead again. Oh look, you know people
Speaker 2: are celebrating all over the galaxy.
Speaker 3: Yep, well we've seen that, We've seen that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And so this is it's like a lesser
Speaker 2: version of the thing that we already saw. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this looks like the light on them so wonky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's very obviously she's not outside. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I really wish I cared about this trio. I think
Speaker 2: that if if Stephen Hiller is in fact dead, then
Speaker 2: there has to be something in this third act that
Speaker 2: has Dylan something redemptive with regards to his dad, like,
Speaker 2: I hope you're proud of me, dad, something.
Speaker 1: Right, totally yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some issue they had
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: You know, it would have been very easy to do.
Speaker 2: The other thing I was thinking about, I'm like, why
Speaker 2: make it so final that he is dead?
Speaker 3: I was wondering, like what if, yeah, maybe he wasn't.
Speaker 1: Maybe they thought he had crashed, but maybe he was
Speaker 1: taken and then they discover he's been held captive all
Speaker 1: these years or something, and then they release them and
Speaker 1: now he's kind of kooky, right because they've been in
Speaker 1: his head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like let's say, okay, it's for sure Will
Speaker 2: Smith is not in this movie. Then then you say,
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen years ago, Steven Hiller led a mission
Speaker 2: into space and he was never heard from again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Well that would have been yeah if they
Speaker 1: really thought they were making a third one, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't box yourself into the corner saying.
Speaker 2: Right, it's odd. Yeah. I sorry, I'm being quiet because
Speaker 2: I'm like I don't even remember this. I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: what's happening here? You just saw it like two days ago. Yeah, anyway, Sorry,
Speaker 2: I have to admit I do like this one moment
Speaker 2: where this the Warlord's like you have the heart of
Speaker 2: a warrior because it's so weirdly earnest for that relationship.
Speaker 1: You know it see exact kind of thing Emeric does
Speaker 1: in a bunch of other movies. Maybe just a little better,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like it is satisfying seeing these two opposites
Speaker 1: share a moment during vig.
Speaker 2: It's funny like we don't really get insight into the
Speaker 2: warlord and it's like, well does he have like child soldiers?
Speaker 2: Like what kind of warlord is? You know? I know,
Speaker 2: like like do you want his compliment? Maybe you don't,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking those sorts of things when it first
Speaker 1: came out, And then I did notice a line at
Speaker 1: the beginning where it was sort of like, well that
Speaker 1: was my dad or something.
Speaker 2: So this like ad R right right right.
Speaker 1: I'm probably even remembering it wrong, but I think they
Speaker 1: did something like that, were like, I, you know, he
Speaker 1: was like this, but I am me.
Speaker 2: I don't believe in child soldiers. Yeah eighteen plus only
Speaker 2: right right in my army this ball.
Speaker 1: I wish the ball had like more personality, like, oh hey,
Speaker 1: it's up, yeah, like I should be voiced by Christen Wig.
Speaker 2: I was thinking Orco voice, So I guess we were
Speaker 2: kind of in the same Actually, I like Orco Yeah,
Speaker 2: are we ready to go? Yeah? Exactly, you know, I
Speaker 2: just give us a minute. What a weird way to
Speaker 2: end the movie. We're gonna kick some serious alien ass.
Speaker 3: And thinking that we're gonna be like, yes, give it
Speaker 3: to me now.
Speaker 2: I remember the movie ending and saying to myself, fu,
Speaker 2: yeah right right as soon as the credits came up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I was like, how effing tear you? You know,
Speaker 2: specifically for people who aren't watching along, what do you mean? Well,
Speaker 2: just the ending is this insulting sequel tease? And you know,
Speaker 2: about twenty minutes into this there will never be a
Speaker 2: sequel to yeah, right, yeah, yeah, And so it's it's
Speaker 2: not only it's not even just the fact that it's
Speaker 2: it's teasing a sequel that's never gonna happen. I'm like
Speaker 2: it it has a sequel tease in lieu of an
Speaker 2: ending that's emotionally satisfying, totally. You're right, Like the first
Speaker 2: film ends and Will Smith's like, didn't I promise you?
Speaker 2: Fireworks boom perfect, final life perfect, right, and then you know,
Speaker 2: the music comes up, So that's what it was. It
Speaker 2: was a You're gonna kick some alien ass and then
Speaker 2: final insult. David Arnold's theme comes up, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you read pastored sons of pitches. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also kind of like, let us have some
Speaker 1: catharsis from this. We've apparently cared about what happened for
Speaker 1: the past two hours, and now it's just been solved.
Speaker 1: But it's immediately like no, no, no, the real battles
Speaker 1: out there like okay, yeah, yeah, you don't even give
Speaker 1: us a moment to.
Speaker 2: Savor what they've just been through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, and they interrupt that for a
Speaker 1: sequel we know won't happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Independence Day Resurgence. Yeah, well it was gonna be
Speaker 2: I D Forever. Okay. Part one and Part two yeah,
Speaker 2: which that that's you know, that's bad. Regardless resurgence too,
Speaker 2: that feels very focus grouped, you know. Sure, but no,
Speaker 2: just looking at the credit list, I'm I'm fascinated by
Speaker 2: the fact that Liam Hemsworth his top build. Wow, right,
Speaker 2: because I'm just like, well, I'm wondering did his agent
Speaker 2: like do some some some you know, negotiation food. That's funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I like that expression, or or they're like, we.
Speaker 2: Got another Hemsworth, we got another list.
Speaker 1: You know, like we we we found another gold nugget
Speaker 1: in a cave and we we are going to capitalize
Speaker 1: on this guy. We are like going to get him
Speaker 1: to a contract for Fox and you know, Marvel can
Speaker 1: have that one. We got this one, and it I
Speaker 1: wonder if it was something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's weird because even watching the film, he doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like the lead to me. No, yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a good point. You know, he's a lead, we get it,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't feel like the main character. You know.
Speaker 2: And again this is just this we're just saying the
Speaker 2: same thing. But I mean that's something that Will Smith
Speaker 2: was able to to just sort of thanks to his personality,
Speaker 2: really make himself the first among equals, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even at one point, I obviously this is
Speaker 1: a different experience at watching it with the sound off
Speaker 1: with you. But Jeff Goldblum, when he was in the
Speaker 1: bus at the end, I was kind of like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jeff Golbloom.
Speaker 2: You know, Jeff Goldblum, who you have to give credit.
Speaker 2: He he knows the assignment, Yeah, what people are turning
Speaker 2: up for totally. He knows why he's making them that
Speaker 2: that sweet sweet independence Day two money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love him, but I do feel like
Speaker 1: he works best when he's bouncing off of someone, I.
Speaker 2: Think, so, you know, yeah, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: that that's that's where you weave in William Fickner a
Speaker 2: little bit more or somebody you know, to kind of
Speaker 2: have that push and pull, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's so satisfying in the first one is
Speaker 1: he is very smart, but he's kind of at odds
Speaker 1: with most people. You know, they don't either want him
Speaker 1: there or they don't trust him, or who's this guy?
Speaker 1: But he knows he's right and he's got to be there.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's a good thing he is.
Speaker 2: See. I think what they you know, they needed to
Speaker 2: bring back Harvey Firestein. Yeah, well, I don't know you
Speaker 2: made it. Well, we didn't think Brent Speiner made it.
Speaker 2: Touche touche. He's a he's a cyborg in this one.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually I would love it if he was like
Speaker 1: now married to his lawyer, just to bring that back,
Speaker 1: you know, call this person, call whatever, like I forget
Speaker 1: my lawyer and it's just like turns out I'm in
Speaker 1: love with my lawyer.
Speaker 3: Like I would just love just for me. That would
Speaker 3: tickles me.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, So well, hey, we have now watched Independence
Speaker 2: Day Resurgence for the third and dare I say final time?
Speaker 2: I think so? I think so. I think we can.
Speaker 2: We can put this one the in the lock box
Speaker 2: right for eternity. Oh man, I wonder do you think
Speaker 2: this will be the final time anyone or I don't
Speaker 2: know if anyone else has up to this moment, but
Speaker 2: anyone will record a commentary track for Independence Day Resurgence?
Speaker 2: Is this our stick pin in history?
Speaker 1: If we could see all the facts of the world
Speaker 1: in some amazing book that collects this sort of like detail,
Speaker 1: it's like, wow, actually.
Speaker 2: Believe it or not?
Speaker 1: The last time anyone recorded commentary Independence Date two with
Speaker 1: Zakiyasan and Brian Hall in year twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know, I'm it. It's like that old saying.
Speaker 2: One day somebody recorded the final commentary track for Independence
Speaker 2: Day Resurgence, and we didn't even know. We didn't even
Speaker 2: know exactly exactly. You know, Yeah, we might be in
Speaker 2: that moment right now. I wonder, well, hey, so final thoughts? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know what is funny When the movie ended the
Speaker 1: other night, when I was actually watching it, I did think, look,
Speaker 1: this isn't very good.
Speaker 2: It just didn't work Normally, he's so good.
Speaker 3: Even though his movies are.
Speaker 1: Very popcorn and kind of corny and feature very obvious tropes,
Speaker 1: they still kind of work, like in a base sort
Speaker 1: of way, the way that you connect with people and
Speaker 1: just want to see a ragtag group of people save
Speaker 1: the day.
Speaker 3: You know, he's just really good at that.
Speaker 1: And somehow he wasn't able to harness that for this
Speaker 1: movie in a way that worked for me. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, it still feels like it was made
Speaker 1: by someone who's capable.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you watch a movie like.
Speaker 1: This and you're like, wow, this person doesn't know where
Speaker 1: to put the camera this person.
Speaker 3: This editing is weird. This pert, you know, why were
Speaker 3: they direct did to do that?
Speaker 2: Like it?
Speaker 1: There's like capable skill, I think on display, but the
Speaker 1: script doesn't work, The characters aren't interesting, you know, all
Speaker 1: that stuff's not working. But still the action set pieces
Speaker 1: feel you know, they have some skill to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 1: You can see that this is someone who does know
Speaker 1: what they're doing, but this was just not their day.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Well, it absolutely does. Although the only addendum I would
Speaker 2: offer is that in the decade sense that he is
Speaker 2: only directed to additional films that is a great point,
Speaker 2: neither of which were his day.
Speaker 1: Also, and I guess it happens, right, I mean, even
Speaker 1: look at someone like Francis Ford Coppola. That's right, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, you get Apocalypse now, then you
Speaker 1: get Jack, you know, like I just it's strange how
Speaker 1: that happens.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I remember it was at Moonfall. Moonfall. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was a COVID movie and you could tell that
Speaker 2: was a movie where I think I dvr'd that one
Speaker 2: night because I thought, wow, Roland Emeric movie I've never seen,
Speaker 2: kind of curious, and I turned it off. Twenty minutes in.
Speaker 2: Isn't that sad? Yeah? I saw it in the theater
Speaker 2: and is pretty rough really, Yeah, and I had a
Speaker 2: very similar reaction where, you know, it was very obvious
Speaker 2: that they were working under pandemic conditions, and so you're
Speaker 2: kind of like, you give them, you give them an
Speaker 2: a for effort kind of thing. You know, this was
Speaker 2: not that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shame, Yeah, you you your your wrap up thoughts.
Speaker 2: I think that you know what I said ten years
Speaker 2: ago is I didn't hate this movie. I just didn't
Speaker 2: have any feelings about it at all, you know, because
Speaker 2: hate implies more effort than even the filmmakers put in.
Speaker 2: It feels like right, and you know, it's not even like, oh,
Speaker 2: it ruined the first one retrospectively for me, because this
Speaker 2: sequel is so entirely forgettable that it's like like, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm happy to revisit the first film whenever you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's Independence Day weekend, I'll probably watch it, but
Speaker 2: I'm also happy to just put this one back in
Speaker 2: the drawer and never watch it again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't even feel related to it. Frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean, you you hit it right on the head,
Speaker 1: right off the bat. Which is the first one has
Speaker 1: a groundedness and a humanity and a real sort of
Speaker 1: put yourself in the situation kind of fun to it
Speaker 1: that this one just simply doesn't have. So it's like
Speaker 1: you can't even mistake them, you know, for one another.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we'll just we'll keep going back to the
Speaker 1: first one and this one will drift off into the
Speaker 1: memory hole.
Speaker 2: Bye bye. But hey, let us know your thoughts on
Speaker 2: Independence Day resurgence. I actually very curious me too. You
Speaker 2: can email us at Movie Film Podcast at gmail dot com.
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Speaker 2: Grateful and with that on behalf of my partner Brian Home.
Speaker 2: My name is Zachie As this has been our movie
Speaker 2: film commentary track for Independence Day Resurgence. We will catch
Speaker 2: you next time. Thanks everybody,