WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.720 Welcome back everyone to castorly talk. We are here with 2 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.400 another character interview. This one, I'm gonna warnier right now 3 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:17.280 could get a little controversial because we are talking about 4 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.239 one of the most complicated figures in all. 5 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:21.320 Of Western Rosia history. 6 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.000 We're talking about somebody who has a lot of fans, 7 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:28.440 which we are I would say we count amongst those fans. 8 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.039 He also has a lot of haters, many of which 9 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.119 are some of our other favorites that hate this man 10 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.880 for some very valid reasons. I am joined today by 11 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:41.079 co host of the Imperial Cdit podcast, creator host of 12 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:44.520 the Club, one of our best friends frequent collaborators. 13 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:47.880 Contributed to Nicky Kumar is Bath. Hello, sir, how are you. 14 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:52.799 Oh, I'm good, I'm excited, ready to talk about Jamie Stair. 15 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.920 Of course I got, you know, my leanister red here. 16 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:05.640 I made a real stake of not doing my dishes 17 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:09.400 on time and I and I forgot I have a landhouse, linister, 18 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.519 like it's like I'm gonna have that, and then you 19 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.519 know it's kind of all fit and fit in the 20 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.760 vibe and uh, you know, I screwed up, but to 21 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:22.599 make up for it, I cut off my hands so you. 22 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.159 Know, mm hmm around ballad the ballad and and being 23 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:31.799 without your mug in in a way as being without 24 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:33.719 a great tool, which I think is something that that 25 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.920 Jamie has to get over, has to learn. 26 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.439 Uh. Like Nicky said, and like you know, because you 27 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:39.959 clicked on it. 28 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.280 Today we're talking about I was gonna say the Kings Slayer, 29 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:47.280 but I have a compulsion within me to always yell 30 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:48.000 as loud as. 31 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.400 I can get it. 32 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.000 We're telling stories. 33 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.000 We will we'll get into uh. I am really excited 34 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.920 to talk about this character in general, but always with you. 35 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:04.359 In our friendship. 36 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.319 Talking about Jamie has been a consistent thing that's always 37 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:08.919 come up. And like we talked about a lot of 38 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:10.840 characters a lot, but this is one that I know 39 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:13.240 as a character who's near and dear to use one 40 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.759 of your faves, and where I want to start with 41 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.199 him is something that's really more about you, which all 42 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.759 of these are to a degree, which is why I 43 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.240 want to make it really personal and not just the 44 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:27.919 trivia of it. Because we can all go down his 45 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.560 stats and believe me, he will too, and a lot 46 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.599 of people. The story will of what he's done, but 47 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:37.199 the why it connects with the person is always so 48 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:39.759 interesting to men because I know you so well and 49 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:40.719 we talk every day. 50 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.599 One thing that has emerged with you that you love 51 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.400 in a character is. 52 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.319 I would say expertise and precision, and these are things 53 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.719 that come up in There's a lot of ranged combatants 54 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:00.560 that this comes up in. And while James he is not, 55 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:03.240 you know, an archer, and so I can't do like 56 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:05.280 a one to one with him and some other characters 57 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:07.120 that you like in terms of their actual skill set. 58 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:09.400 He is, you know, so effective at what he does 59 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:10.800 and so deadly that he does. 60 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:13.240 He is sort of like that ace in the same 61 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.319 way that someone like cross Hair is who we've talked 62 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.719 about in relation to him a lot, especially with what 63 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.280 happens to cross Hair a little bit down the road, 64 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:24.159 like spoilers for the bad Batch. You should all watch it. 65 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:27.840 But in terms of you, where do you think that 66 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.120 that stems from? Your student of history? You love character, 67 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.840 you're a writer, but why this does it come from 68 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.439 a sportsmantality? Does it come from having parents in the 69 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:41.199 medical field? 70 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:42.120 Like what do you think that is? 71 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:50.879 Okay, so we're doing therapy session. I guess I guess 72 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.599 you know it's interesting. I think there's a lot of 73 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:59.439 facets that to your point about sort of precision expertise, 74 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.000 and probably is a lot of like things I things 75 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:06.879 I really love, like sports related like but even things 76 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.240 like racing. Like it's why I love pod racing, It's 77 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.879 why I like. I love the idea that you can 78 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:15.520 It's why I love pilots in general. It's why I 79 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.759 love the fighter pilots in any story, and especially in 80 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:22.360 Star Wars. I love the idea that, you know, just 81 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:27.000 being good at something is enough to kind of get 82 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:30.319 you through. It's it's it's it's sort of this uh, 83 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.959 you know, this thing of like I I love the 84 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:41.160 the rebellion pillet resistance pilots who you know, just simply 85 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:43.920 off the skill of you know, like a like a 86 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.160 wedge antilities being like, you know what, one day I'd 87 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.560 hit it again in a cockpit and I just lent 88 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:51.600 for it and I and I was there from Adalan 89 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.319 to Hexagal, you know, and like like I love that 90 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.720 kind of thing. I love it. In the context of 91 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:01.040 studying World War Two, I love the the aviators of 92 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.240 World War two and and things they went through and 93 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:07.319 again just as regular people who were like I guess 94 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:09.439 this is what I'm doing. I'm getting in a B 95 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.199 seventeen and I'm flying a big ass plane over you know, 96 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.319 over Europe and all this, and so I love all 97 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.240 that and I think that definitely is a big part 98 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:22.920 of why like Jamie. But I think in the end 99 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:27.439 it's probably something a lot more personal. And it's like 100 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.759 I think, I think I love these characters who their 101 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:38.399 exterior shows the world and gives the world an entirely 102 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:44.480 different view of what they actually are. And and that's 103 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:50.519 often like self inflicted, especially with Jamie's case, not never, 104 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:53.480 he never helps himself in that in that type of scenario. 105 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:58.079 But I but I always love these characters who who 106 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.800 have this this sort of and again the range is 107 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:04.319 very wide, like they're not all one to ones, but 108 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.360 like outside of cross Hair Sniping likes that he's inaccessible 109 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:14.240 as a person until until you start seeing and and 110 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.079 then you get those lines of like of course the Hunter, 111 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:19.879 Oh you're as bad as Hunter, Like no, I'm much 112 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.720 worse when it comes to like caring for this child 113 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:27.519 and like like it's stuff like that, and it's a 114 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.360 it's a character like I even say Chopper, like like 115 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:35.439 Chopper is insane as a droid, but he shows those 116 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.399 moments that he cares like it's it's uh, it just goes, 117 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:41.680 it goes somewhere differently. 118 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:42.680 And and. 119 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.879 I mean and other ones like I think of you know, 120 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.120 I think of Snape. I think of Tim Riggins from 121 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.959 from Friday Night Lights. Like these people who exterior and 122 00:06:54.079 --> 00:07:00.319 demeanor creates this version for people to perceive that is 123 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:06.120 hiding something really either narratively like interesting or even just 124 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:11.360 down to like just nice. Like I think something like 125 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.360 really rich about those characters. And and I think Jamie 126 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.920 is the one, like the big one in Game of 127 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:23.600 Throne or sung Aboy some fire for me, who who 128 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:27.759 does that kind of the I think I think his 129 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:33.519 like twing the hardest on on all of that. What 130 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:34.360 does that say about me? 131 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:38.639 Right? 132 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:43.519 Yeah? Right, you're like, and uh so in my central 133 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:47.439 wound is Yeah, I think I do have that though 134 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:49.279 I think duality. 135 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:52.199 Yeah, I think I think I have that to a 136 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:56.360 degree where I think, like, I think I do wonder 137 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:00.720 how I'm perceived by people and if it's accurate to 138 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.759 who I like, know I am. I think I think 139 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:07.839 I do want that. So I think I do really 140 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.279 find myself connecting the characters who who exhibit that in 141 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.000 very extreme verss in a lot of fiction. 142 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:21.920 Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. 143 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:27.000 I mean the we're a hyper aware generation, and we're 144 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.839 a hyper aware type of guy. I think, just like 145 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:32.919 the types of conversations you and I have and that 146 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.759 our friends have, we're always very in like our perspective 147 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:40.480 and how it clashes with maybe what's in vogue or 148 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:43.799 how or how it doesn't and uh, you know, communal 149 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:46.440 conversations or something that we get into a lot and 150 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:51.480 we're both like very aware of like our place in 151 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.759 groups good and bad. And I think that's something that 152 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.840 Jamie definitely has, like right out of the get is 153 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.720 that he is a character of contrast where you are 154 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:03.759 in deared already so quickly to the starks that he 155 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.120 comes around sort of challenging what you know. But there's 156 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:12.000 something not right already, as if you ran as a 157 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:15.080 reader about his classes with Ned, where you're like, why 158 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.360 does it feel like Ned doesn't have the full like. 159 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:22.559 Standing here, Like it does feel like there's something I'm 160 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:23.240 not privy to. 161 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.080 Like they do a great job of indicating a lived 162 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.960 in history through this guy that people's ideas of him 163 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:30.440 are so. 164 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:32.919 It's widespread. 165 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:36.919 First of all, it's like a realm wide opinion of him, 166 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.960 but like everybody's coming out from these different angles, and 167 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:43.679 it's interesting. And another character that came to mind when 168 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.600 you were talking about that archetype is Wolverine in that 169 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.919 he is literally known as in the way that Batman 170 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:52.919 has like the Cape Crusader, the Dark Knight. 171 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.000 Wolverine is the best there is at what he does, 172 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:57.879 and what he does isn't very nice. 173 00:09:58.039 --> 00:09:58.600 That's the thing. 174 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.320 I'm the best there is what I do, Bub. 175 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.080 And he is the best there is a what he does, Bob. 176 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:10.600 But he is also always the dad, the reluctant dad. 177 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.519 He is always the girl dad. 178 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:17.120 He's always Professor Logan, and he's always like these things 179 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:21.960 of like, oh you really want love and love comes 180 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.679 you are that you are that lone wolf. That isn't 181 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.679 actually and and not that that's Jamie, but just like 182 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:32.120 in the sense that you could be. You could simplify 183 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.120 these guys down to bloodshed in a lot of ways, 184 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:41.840 or their deeds and Jamie's ideas of what knighthood is 185 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.240 and what knighthood has proven to be like in his career, 186 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.600 such a fascinating things that we'll talk about. 187 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:46.799 A little bit. 188 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.159 So your first exposure to him is I'm assuming the 189 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.399 pilot of of got. 190 00:10:54.519 --> 00:11:00.840 Uh correct, mister Nikolai Custer Weldo and and his uh 191 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:06.480 his portrayal of of Jamie is the beginning for me. 192 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.919 And yeah, I think, you know, speaking of speaking of expertise, 193 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:15.240 like you know, and then liking sort of like characters 194 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:17.480 like I know you know this, but like I'm also 195 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.879 obsessed with the King's Guard, so like just the idea 196 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:28.279 of these like this little squadron of like the best 197 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.279 of the best or so we're mentable, right, So so anyway, 198 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.120 like him being a part of that was already a 199 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.320 very like kind of cool thing to me. The armor 200 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:43.360 is great, you know, very specific and and and yeah, 201 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.320 I think like he's just he's just a very you know, 202 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.879 through writing through performance, Like he's a very like engaging person, 203 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:55.879 even even when you're like hating it, right, like because 204 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:57.600 you know he's going up as you said, like he's 205 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.039 going up against character we're already coed to to be 206 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:04.879 write or die for. But then but then there's even 207 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.399 moments in like you know, I'll think of the where 208 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:16.840 Jory Jory Castle goes to like deliver something and Jamie's outside, 209 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:20.120 and I just I always just I always think about 210 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.240 the one, the part where he's like, oh yeah, he's 211 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:29.480 a good lad and Jamie's just like like immediately immediately, 212 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.000 just like I doubt it, and and just so it's 213 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.879 like that is very engaging despite being you know, villain 214 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.720 coded as as we're meant to meant to see him. 215 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.120 But but I would say, my, my like real of 216 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.279 Jamie came from from the books. And and you know 217 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:53.799 that obviously the extent of his character we got in 218 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.039 the show, as far as it lines up with the books, 219 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.879 kind of went really like it was executed very well. 220 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:06.279 But but for the book itself or the books themselves really, 221 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:11.799 or what sort of catapulted my interest of character, and 222 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.320 as I'm sure like for pretty much anyone who's read it, 223 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:19.600 because you know, I don't know the I don't know 224 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:22.120 the brown on the channel of like people who are 225 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.080 listening who have or only show watchers or book and 226 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.559 show readers or whatever. But for anyone who doesn't know 227 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.720 the series of the novels are given through point of 228 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:41.360 view chapters, and for first two books, ah, it's it's 229 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.240 the world perceiving Jamie, and then it's it's only until 230 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.960 the third book when he actually becomes one of the 231 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:52.159 ps Every every book is or every chapter is titled 232 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.679 as like the character it's showing and the I remember 233 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.080 the first time you turn page Jamie. I was like, oh, okay, 234 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.200 let's go, let's let's see what's going on. Yeah, so yeah, 235 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:07.519 I think, you know, definitely the show was this, you know, 236 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:12.080 this the opening of the door. But I really do credit, 237 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.679 you know, mister Martin Felf for for being for you know, 238 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.399 just telling the tale of the character so far as 239 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:21.919 brilliantly as as he's done. 240 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.279 Can I make an observation about him just in terms 241 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.840 of like first impressions that I don't know quite how 242 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.879 to articulate. It might sound like silly, but you'll know 243 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.519 what I mean something about Jamie because my my first 244 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.080 exposure to him was also the pilot. And for people 245 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.440 that have been casually talked viewers that know Ken has 246 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:43.399 read all the books, and Nicky's read all the books, 247 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.519 and he's read all the books. I just finished the 248 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:49.159 second book, so we'll we'll dive in and out of 249 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:50.960 books and I don't you know, NICKI will be free 250 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.679 to jump into that, but just for anyone that knows 251 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.639 from this point on, if there's a book spoiler, you've 252 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.639 been worn. But the the the thing that got me 253 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:02.559 about him right at the pilot is that I'm a 254 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:06.159 big character names person. I know you are, a lot 255 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.679 of our nerdy friends are, especially in fantasy and sci fi. 256 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.279 Something about Jamie as a name no offense to any Jamies. 257 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:18.000 It doesn't, it doesn't. 258 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.399 It doesn't strike majesty, it doesn't strike tear. It doesn't, 259 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.720 it doesn't sound badass tyrium a name alone, circe having 260 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.679 mythological you know, allusion to it, like that, these are 261 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:36.600 names even even you know Edard. You know, yes he's 262 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.000 ned to his friends, but like Eduard, like these are 263 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:42.080 names that it's like whoa even theods. But then he 264 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:47.639 gives the deadliest and most like notorious, a name that 265 00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:52.320 sounds fitting of a little boy. And then we learn 266 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.840 in his story how much like that early boyhood like 267 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.679 experience is fundamental to him, like be made to feel 268 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.600 stupid and and like in a lot of ways like Jamie, 269 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.159 like it's a it's a it's a it's a childish 270 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.039 sounding name to me. And again I don't want me 271 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.840 to offend any Jamie. If you're a Jamie out there 272 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:16.039 and you're fully man, I believe you. But like, it's 273 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:21.080 just it evokes the child that, like Taiwand was never 274 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.279 fully proud of every time I hear it in a 275 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.799 way that most of the other names don't. 276 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:27.919 Like. 277 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.039 It's not that your name has to be elaborate. John's 278 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.720 not a fantasy name, but it just it doesn't feel 279 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:34.000 like that. 280 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.399 Do you have that at all? 281 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.440 Yeah, I guess I never super thought of it. The 282 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.120 only thing that I think of is one of my 283 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.399 friends would like refuse to call him anything else behind 284 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.519 me that kind of Yeah, that kind of grags me up. 285 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:56.240 He'd be like him LANs. But uh, yeah, Like I 286 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:01.799 think George obviously, George is very intentional about his naming. 287 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.359 So I think there is something about it being's name 288 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.799 that we perceive, we know in our world as whether 289 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:13.200 whether it's childish or not. It is both. 290 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:18.200 Masculine and both masculine and feminine and very regular. Like 291 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.000 you had you had probably three three four Jamis in 292 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:22.880 your elementary school, you know I did. 293 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.200 Right, And so like there's there's he's he's a really 294 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.799 interesting character. Namer in that way, because yeah, you have 295 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.839 people who really swing from like high fantasy into like 296 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:39.359 your neighbor's kids, right, Like it's it's really crazy. I 297 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:45.240 mean yeah, because you have like you you know, Barriston, 298 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.839 and then you have your and then you have Sam 299 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.599 sam Well, Sam Well. It's a little kind of you know, 300 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:00.240 or Ed right or or Carl Tanner from Allan you know, 301 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.400 get it right. Yeah, and U and I always I 302 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.039 always marvel in Star Wars too, because Star Wars does 303 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:15.440 this amazingly well. Obviously your your character is Luke right, 304 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:21.400 and and then and Luke and Ben, you know, it's 305 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.319 like and then uh, then you have you know, Brendon 306 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:28.079 muff Will of talking. So yeah, you know, just ways 307 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.119 to like swing it back and forth from like this 308 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:34.640 this sort of high high thing to to the mundane. 309 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.039 And I think it like informs the character in a 310 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.279 really interesting way because I think something everybody likes to 311 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:47.759 talk about, for both good reasons and overblown reasons, is 312 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:51.799 how much of George R. Martin's work with A Song 313 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.000 of Ice and Fire is about the subversion of of 314 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:59.759 tropes and the subversion of of the fantasy you're familiar with, 315 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.680 and so I think there is something cool of like 316 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.039 the name not matching the best sword in the realm, right, 317 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:11.680 like at least you know, there's something cool about that. 318 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.200 And one one thing I love about the character. I 319 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.279 remember had to write a like I in college, I 320 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.119 took a game of cat and it was under the 321 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.799 English department, so so it was very like literary based. 322 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.599 And one of the professor made us like pick a 323 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:34.359 passage from you know, one of the one of the 324 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.160 I think, I think we had only read the first 325 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.799 book at that point. We had to pick a pageant 326 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:43.880 and like just close read a passage basically as this essay, 327 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:47.039 and and like focus on words and stuff. And I 328 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:48.920 think I gold because I knew I wanted to write 329 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:54.160 about Jamie and it was like I always the scene 330 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:56.880 was stuck with me because of it. And it's it's 331 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.119 when they first show up to winter Fell, and you 332 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.839 know you were talking earlier about how how many characters 333 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.720 perceive him for being you know, the King Slayer or 334 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.680 whatnot and or that that that guy. But the first 335 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.839 person you see it from his brand, who is a 336 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.559 child and maybe intellectually knows some things I don't know. 337 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.240 The I can't remember the extent to which Brandon educated. 338 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:29.680 But he's he sees Jamie and he sees Robert at 339 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.480 the same time, and he's like, he's like, this fat 340 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.480 loser is the king. He's like, like, that guy should 341 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.519 be the king. That guy looks cool. That guy is 342 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.640 what I when I imagine night, you know, like the 343 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:48.759 Enzo Ferrari quote of you ask a you ask a 344 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.279 child to draw a race. He's gonna read and like 345 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.519 that that being like the thesis of a Ferrari is like, 346 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.880 it's that for Jamie. He's like, you could go around, 347 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:01.960 I'm the greatest person in the realm. It's going to 348 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.920 be that beautiful blonde guy you know, on horseback and 349 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:12.559 in shining armor, and and that already is now you know, 350 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:19.720 a subversion of you know, brandspectations along with ours, right 351 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.160 like this, this this guy who he thinks looks like 352 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:25.240 the most noble guy in the realm, is going to 353 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:30.640 put him out a window, you know, rather shortly. And 354 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.519 so so yeah, I think there's just so a lot 355 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:39.319 of like very going on with your point about the name, 356 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:43.000 with your with the way he's being perceived by children, 357 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.279 and then they eventually like get to. 358 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:51.640 Know, Yeah, no, I love that the point that you 359 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:56.039 made about George's subversions being overblown, but when they are there, 360 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:58.319 you know, when you when you get them, because it's 361 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:02.200 it's overblown like motivational, right, Like fans think that it's 362 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:05.400 a it's about dunking, and it's like, no, it's about unpacking. 363 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.839 It's about it's about, you know, giving different angles on it, 364 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.759 and Jamie does. 365 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:12.839 He's like one of the best examples of that. 366 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:14.359 I mean, we're we're jumping around a little bit, and 367 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:15.920 I do want to still get some of your more 368 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.599 first impressions on him. But the you can make an argument, 369 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.400 you know, especially as he's with Brion, that like some 370 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.759 of the most knightly things that are happening at that 371 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:29.119 point in the story are happening there, but they're happening 372 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.680 with no witnesses, right, They're happening with no glory. 373 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:34.000 They're happening with only this one person that can see. 374 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.799 So that all that is just so baked into the 375 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.039 character that even in this pilot you know, or or 376 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.920 in the case of the novels, those first couple of chapters, 377 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:49.720 you are immediately you know, nudged as a reader, as 378 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.759 a viewer toward understanding that he is a villain ish 379 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.039 at least for right now. There is you know, the 380 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.279 the light matter of incest, which we've gone twenty three 381 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.960 minutes up to this point. I think I only alluded 382 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:03.480 to it once, and now we're gonna go out right 383 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.160 talk about it. Uh that and then we have the 384 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:10.160 uh the attempted burder of a child. But the other 385 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.920 thing about that that early stuff, especially in the show, 386 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.480 because you have these two incredible actors and Peter and Nikola, 387 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.200 is that you do really early understand that he loves 388 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.079 his brother. That is always a thing that like they 389 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.079 use as like his earliest the earliest lifeline of the 390 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:30.960 character is that then you get more as you go, 391 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.440 but from the get you understand that, like there is 392 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:35.599 something between these two. 393 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:36.720 Even when they're separated. 394 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:38.519 In the early stuff, as the war is breaking out, 395 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:40.920 they're they're thinking about each other. 396 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:42.480 They want to be able to call each other. He 397 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.160 wishes he could call on him for this, and. 398 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.039 Jamie is willing to start start a war over Tyrian safety, 399 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.160 and and all of that I think is really rich 400 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.640 right up front. So with it being in your first 401 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.160 exposure to everybody, had a you feel about him as 402 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:05.559 a member of the Lanisters as well, did did the 403 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:09.799 idea of them being the villainous family, and as much 404 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.440 as we could simplify it to that also intrigue you 405 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.240 because you're not somebody for people that don't know you. 406 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.559 You're not like a typically a villain's first guy. As 407 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:21.799 much as I know you're not like an Empire guy. 408 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.559 You're very much a rebel wiance guy. 409 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:28.599 Right right, Yeah, I think that that's like easy thing 410 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.599 to like say, right up is like team Stark baby, right, 411 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.000 like like let's not let's not get it twisted, you know, like, yeah, 412 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.279 I don't, I don't care what era. I'm waiting for 413 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:41.519 the winter Wolves in a few weeks, like like I'm 414 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:46.079 a team's starting, and so it's I think there's I 415 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.960 think a lot of what comes down to the Lanisters 416 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:55.640 as we know them in the show is estally, I mean, 417 00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.480 first and foremost, it is the cast. I think you'll 418 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:05.079 never like for whatever I could play on anybody at 419 00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:07.960 any given moment in terms of like being like, oh yeah, 420 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.359 these guys aren't so bad. It's down to it. It's 421 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.359 down to the cast. And then I think, based off 422 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.799 what we know about Benioff, and Wiss and how they 423 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:23.240 sort of perceived the story as being more like political 424 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:27.599 drama let's say, then, than like they brank that over 425 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.720 the fantasy elements. I think is probably assumption at this 426 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:36.000 point in how they look look at the series. I 427 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.880 think just the people who aren't afraid of rule breaking, 428 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.119 I think are are the ones who would be the 429 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:49.000 most interesting to write in a in a political politician drama. 430 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:52.759 So I think it's kind of like it's almost like 431 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:58.480 it's never really about their side, and it's I find it. 432 00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:00.680 I find myself in a similar place with the Greens, 433 00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:05.680 like it's it's never about the cause they're fighting, but 434 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.720 they're just good, Like they're like the actors are great 435 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.160 and they're being written well. And I think I think 436 00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:17.039 that is really what it comes down to in the end. 437 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:20.240 I don't I don't think there's a whole lot in 438 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.799 especially while we're talking like first impressions. I don't know 439 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:29.359 in season one to be like, oh yeah, the Lenisters are, 440 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.480 you know, they they got their points, Like I don't 441 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.799 think because even because even Tyrian, even Tyrian is a 442 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.119 hire within the first season, right, like so you can 443 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.680 you can spread him out because because he's very obviously 444 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.599 like you know, he's a scene steeler, he's a ship 445 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.519 he's a serious stealer. Like he's he's everything. And you know, 446 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.720 probably I don't I couldn't like ascribe a percentage to it, 447 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:02.160 but probably the vast like like a large percentage of 448 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.920 the success of the show is funded Peter Dinklice as Lanister, right, 449 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.880 Like people know I drink and I know things like 450 00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.440 you know, like like that's that that was on shirts 451 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.599 and target, right, like and so so it's like, you know, 452 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.920 I don't think it was ever a case of like 453 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:31.920 being drawn to them by by ideology or whatever, but 454 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.759 like just they're just so they're just so delightful and 455 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.400 like like you know that that scene with Jamie and 456 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:44.279 John when when he's like, so I heard you're going 457 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:47.839 to the Nights one, it's just he's just he's just 458 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:50.640 poking everybody, right, He's like, oh, there there's an eye. 459 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:54.319 I will poke it just because I can't, you know, 460 00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.240 and and and again it's and it's just fascinating because 461 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.519 it's like sort of what I said about this exterior 462 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:09.559 projecting an exterior to hide the interior. It's like it's 463 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:12.079 like Jamie. I feel like if Jamie and John just 464 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:15.079 that and like had a good talk like as themselves, 465 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.880 like they really get along, you know, like like if 466 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.920 season eight Jamie has something to say to John, he 467 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:26.160 does eventually. I think there's probably like some some like 468 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:31.119 amount of like mutual respect. But it's very fun. It's 469 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:35.920 very Jamie that's built this fortress around this sort of 470 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.440 persona of what he needs to be right and and 471 00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:41.839 just that's just not a nice person in the end, 472 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.839 and and yeah, like it's it's it's very fascinating, like 473 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.839 and sort of like you said again in terms of 474 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:54.200 like his his barbs with Ned, and it's like, yeah, 475 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.279 we're trained to be on Ned's side, but like there's something, 476 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.960 there's something that he's saying here that is it's not 477 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.200 letting me like fully commit against him. I think that's 478 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:08.759 that's that's really like the part of again not being 479 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:13.279 on their side, but like just there's something about it. 480 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:14.559 There's something, I mean, I. 481 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:16.640 Think, and you could tell and you could tell it 482 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.160 throws Ned. It throws Ned, and that that throws you, 483 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:22.559 and and Sean Bean in the show plays it, it 484 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.440 plays it so beautifully, which is I was like we 485 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.920 should we should mention this too. The first one of 486 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:29.680 these we did was the best Stanis. The second one 487 00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:33.519 we did was about Brien. In both of those, you know, 488 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:38.440 they are obviously like everybody is younger on the page, 489 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:42.759 you know, for all types of practical and real world reasons. 490 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.119 The shows, you know, which I think is a decision 491 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.279 everybody supports and showed support based on things that happened. 492 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.680 Everybody is aged up quite a bit. 493 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.319 But you know, you you having Jamie as as as 494 00:29:56.680 --> 00:29:59.319 your character and the topic today and everybody. By the way, 495 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.920 I've said this the first two, everybody's gonna come back 496 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.720 on the show and talk about other characters too. I'm 497 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.160 just rotating through the one I associate with people the 498 00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.319 most everything. I'm not saying Nikki can only ever talk 499 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.279 about Jamie. But given that Jamie is the first one 500 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.160 where that really feels like a relevant point, I'm curious 501 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.480 about your thoughts on that because it doesn't affect someone 502 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:19.599 like Stantus as much. But Jamie's age up from the 503 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:24.160 page to Nickelai's interpretation of the character is pretty significant 504 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:27.480 in terms of how he plays. It's as significant as 505 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.640 you know the Starks where they are boys and That's 506 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:36.599 something that's been really hitting me reading Robin John versus 507 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:41.880 having watched them, because I've watched the show through multiple 508 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:43.599 times already, and so it's like, I feel like I 509 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:46.000 really know Robin John. And then there are scenes with 510 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:47.759 them in the in the text and with Jamie where 511 00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:49.759 I'm like, oh, this is a young man's thought. It 512 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.319 happened with Ned and Kat too, like Ned and Catt 513 00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.880 and the Books one, Books one two shout out Ned 514 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.920 Ned and Book one is having internal monologue of like 515 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.759 maybe I'll go back and you know, have another kid 516 00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:04.799 with Kat, like you know, we could have another one, 517 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.279 like you know, like then. 518 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.599 That stuff's not in the show because everybody's aged up. 519 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.680 So with Jamie there is like almost like you're not 520 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.640 losing an element of like him being a young prodigy 521 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.799 because they still talk about it, but it was further 522 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.119 back in the show. So how does that How does 523 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.319 that all play for differences and what Nikolay does with 524 00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:26.000 his take? 525 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.200 Yeah, I think I think Nikolay also has. 526 00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:35.599 A I think it didn't. 527 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.559 I actually don't know if I thought about it too 528 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:40.759 much because I feel like he, at least in the 529 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.599 show still kind of like looks young enough it certainly 530 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.720 in season one, like he's just charming. 531 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:48.720 Yeah, yeah, he's charming. 532 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.119 Right, he still kind of looks young enough to be like, yeah, 533 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.680 he's in his thirties or whatever, like, which I think 534 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.880 is what it would see seventeen is that what seventeen 535 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:03.519 plus seventeen or something or no less. 536 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.559 Than that, I don't know, seventeen plus like eleven or something. 537 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:07.119 I can't remember. 538 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.240 Yeah, it's I guess it's however, old John is so 539 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:16.319 oh yeah, fourteen or fifteen, Yeah, so yeah, I could 540 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:21.599 buy him as someone in his thirties probably at that point. Yeah. 541 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:28.200 So yeah, It's like I don't know if if I 542 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:32.039 really I don't know if it really caught me too 543 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.039 much when I was watching it in terms of the 544 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:42.119 age scaling, did it did catch you? Like about the 545 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.240 way he's it's. 546 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.920 It is almost like his isn't as jarring as the 547 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.440 Stark Boys. But there are moments. 548 00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:58.440 In the uh, especially in the conversation with Kat, which 549 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.359 is you know, staged a little bit differently, And there 550 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:01.680 are things in the books that are like that, just 551 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.400 you know, because you know that like sometimes he's writing 552 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.240 a location where it's just like either we don't have 553 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.720 the money for that, or you know, HBO wasn't there 554 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:12.359 at that point for likes, you know, not like where 555 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:14.759 they're at, like now with House where it's like bigger 556 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.680 than it's ever been, or nine seven Kingdoms where it's 557 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.519 more colorful, but it's. 558 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:20.640 Ever been, and like the armor more book accurate and 559 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.240 blah blah blah. 560 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.400 So it's like sometimes replacing the scene in a little 561 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:26.480 bit of a different circumstance and the cat one like 562 00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.519 instead of him being like in that like cage that 563 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.240 he's in, like when she dresses him down and sit 564 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:35.640 talks him, he's like in the cell at river Run 565 00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:37.880 like at the bottom and she goes down there, and 566 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:41.400 like it's a longer scene and it's a little bit 567 00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.960 more of a snarkier version of the scene. And the 568 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:49.960 sexual like trying to intimidate her sexually is a little 569 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.079 bit to me. I fel like it was laid on thicker, 570 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.480 like a younger guy would do. Like there are little 571 00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:57.039 moments like that where it's like, I think his shittiness 572 00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:01.119 and honestly, everybody's every thing is a little bit more 573 00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:04.440 amped up with page time, Like that's just the thing. 574 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.360 But maybe it's because I'm as a as a longtime 575 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:14.639 show watcher new reader. I'm so conscious of the changes 576 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.320 that I am creating a younger guy in my head 577 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.400 because i know that's happening with Aria, where I've had 578 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.280 to put effort into not imagining Mazie because I have 579 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.280 to remember a a younger girl and then be they 580 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:34.119 physically describe her to be different than Mazy like our books. 581 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.360 I think they say has like, well, they're being mean, 582 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:38.000 but they say like she has like horse face, she 583 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.199 has like a long head and everything, and it's like, 584 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:42.000 that's not Mazy Williams. 585 00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.159 We know, very round in the head. So it's like 586 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.639 that made me be like, oh yeah, yeah. 587 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.599 Something else of the show didn't do as much. It 588 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.920 really only did it with Sanza. Is how like Rob 589 00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:01.480 and Sonza are very and thetally kidd uh yeah, and 590 00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:06.000 like they they they reflect the Tully side much heavier, 591 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.519 and I think, yeah, I don't remember when they say it, 592 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.599 but they're literally like Aria is very starky and very lean, 593 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.840 right like yeah, And I think, again, not to delvi 594 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.800 into a anything, but you know that sets her apart 595 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.519 from from the other kid. 596 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.119 You know what this is, This is just like just 597 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.440 not about anybody, not anything important, but the thing that 598 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.440 really throws me every time every time that I read 599 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.800 Taiwan or Taiwan is mentioned, I picture Charles Dance because 600 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.159 of course, and then I have to remind myself that 601 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.840 book Taiwan is bald, and so that I have. 602 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.559 To imagine a bald Charles Dance, And I'm like. 603 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.559 Yeah, interesting, I haven't read it in a while. But 604 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.400 is he also like much like Brownier. 605 00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:56.960 I feel like he's like, yeah, more like physically imposing. Yeah, 606 00:35:57.559 --> 00:35:59.239 I don't know if he's like a brick shit out 607 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:08.239 an He's like he's tall, dude, you embarrass me? Uh yeah, 608 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.320 So like it hasn't come up too much. I'm curious 609 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.440 once I get into book three and we get more 610 00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.840 into him being out about his POV how it's gonna play. 611 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:16.800 I'm excited for that, but. 612 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:23.239 Moving past sort of like your your initial stuff, you're there, 613 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:26.039 you get Nikolay, he's making these great choices. 614 00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.599 I love that you brought up the moment with the jury. Uh. 615 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.280 Similarly in the John scene that you brought up it's 616 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.000 the uh, well, it's only for life, like it's just 617 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:39.760 like the little the little barbs, like you said, because 618 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.119 he can, because he has, he's exerting some control because 619 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:43.400 he's such an insecure being. 620 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.760 I want to jump ahead. I'm gonna throw out the scene. 621 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:49.679 You don't have to talk just about that scene, but 622 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.440 just sort of like I think the bathtub scene is 623 00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:57.199 kind of the Banner Hall of Fame thing for like 624 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.320 revealing the truth of I'm not gonna say the best 625 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.760 in the series, but definitely a top moment for this 626 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.880 character and for any of them. Of you thought you knew, well, 627 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.199 now I'm gonna tell you, what are your thoughts on 628 00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:17.119 everything that you learned later and whether it's that seem 629 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.440 specifically or just in general, and how it informed your 630 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:22.480 approach to the character because you are such an appreciator 631 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:26.159 of that history and this series we touched on a 632 00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:28.960 little bit with Ned gives you so many people who 633 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.760 believe one thing, and it's not like what they believe 634 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:36.239 is wrong, but their their context for it is so missing. 635 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.079 How does that play for you as as somebody who 636 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.239 likes the character and as somebody who's just interested in 637 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.519 the history of these nights and what their honor means 638 00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:48.639 because Jay, because Ned is there saying I have honor 639 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:53.039 and Jamie is like okay, but he doesn't say it 640 00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:55.800 in these words, but his it's his presence I think 641 00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.400 makes Ned uncomfortable because it forces Ned to ask like 642 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.800 what would I have done right? And nobody wants to 643 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.159 have to have that conversation with him. 644 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.320 Yeah again, like uh, it was just we sort of 645 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.880 like mentioned that scene a lot, but like just that 646 00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:14.159 that one question of what would I be more honorable 647 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:16.400 if I stayed him in the stomach instead of the back, 648 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.960 like you know, just just being able to sort of 649 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.719 like serve that up. And anyway, Yeah, to go to 650 00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:28.559 go to the bathtub, the famous uh Jamie scene. I 651 00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:31.800 think actually I do have to wind back a little 652 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.480 bit to the chapter you mentioned, which, in a lot 653 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.440 of ways actually is the one that stays with me 654 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.480 more of uh when Catlin goes to talk to him 655 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.639 at the end of Class Kings before before letting him 656 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:50.239 or releasing him. I think that was the that was 657 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:55.599 the one where it was like, oh, okay. I think 658 00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:59.199 George probably knew he was bringing Jamie Hn as a 659 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:02.679 POV character and was like, I'm gonna set the table here. 660 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.360 And I think actually, for as much as the bathtub 661 00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:13.960 is is the clear breakthrough that that scene initially in 662 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:19.480 the cell Is. I think like that was the one 663 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:26.079 that really sort of started started my like looking at 664 00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:31.000 him because it sort of brings up these the same 665 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:38.519 ideas and you know, just getting into the contradictions of 666 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:42.039 his life, right Like I think I think it's at 667 00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:44.599 that that point with Catlin where he does the whole 668 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.719 like there's so many rules. Man, you gotta you gotta 669 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:51.280 obey the gods, you gotta obey the king, you gotta 670 00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.679 obey your father, you gotta be true to your family. 671 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.760 And it's like what happens when they're all mushed together 672 00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:01.079 and and they're all, you know, being being honest to one, 673 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:05.239 being honest to the other, and and again it's all filtered. 674 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.000 It's it's just it's kind of the most perfect exchange 675 00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.199 Jamee dialogue, at least for the character at that point, 676 00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:17.159 because it's like it's it's truth with just like a 677 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:19.920 slap and like he's he's also you can just like 678 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.840 imagine him on the ground, like this physical representation of 679 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.239 him just being like I'm gonna tell you the truth, 680 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.639 but I'm also taking swipes at you, like like you know, 681 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.159 he he he is sort of like twisting the knife 682 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.880 on mad he is he admits he flung Brand out 683 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.960 the window, like he's he is trying to hurt her, 684 00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.599 but he's also just revealing this this core truth of 685 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:50.239 his character, which is he he's probably saved more people 686 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.760 than anyone else in the series, right like he is 687 00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:57.280 he has directly I don't know, I don't know what 688 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:01.159 the population is, but we'll say like a million, like 689 00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:03.800 just yeah, he's saved so many people. 690 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:08.239 And and he is friends, friends and enemies like he 691 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:12.079 saved he saved this, you know, all the forces of 692 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.320 Robert as well, like including her all. 693 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:17.599 So it's like yeah, very a lot. 694 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:21.320 And like again the great, the great contradiction, and like 695 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.199 I don't think I don't think we get the full 696 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:27.360 again that this is saved for this bathtub scene you 697 00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.599 brought up, so like we don't get the full extent 698 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.079 of the truth, the truth of it, right, Like we 699 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.000 don't know Aris was gonna blow the whole thing up 700 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.480 at this at this point, but like we do, we 701 00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:45.920 are getting the you know the sort of like just 702 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.280 the the sort of affirmation of what did was heroic, 703 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.159 like it's it's it's it's true. Like in the end, 704 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:57.599 it's like that is something you would say a hero 705 00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:03.280 did play the evil king to to to save millions. 706 00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.800 And and again it's it's that sort of like sense 707 00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:10.920 of kind of like cosmic injustice that he has where 708 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:14.800 he's like, you know, he's he's like, I'm I think 709 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.559 he's talking about Tyrian or something. He's like, I'm I'm 710 00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:20.519 loved for something I didn't do and I'm hated for 711 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:23.800 something the one the good thing I did, or something 712 00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:26.639 like that, Like I think he says that to her 713 00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.599 at that point. And and again just and George does 714 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:37.159 this other thing so brilliantly in the scene where it's like, uh, 715 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:41.199 just again, to feed the to feed the subversion, I 716 00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:45.239 think there's there's something where it's like he says something 717 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:48.039 just atrocious to Catlin and she's like, is there anyone 718 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:53.800 as beautiful and vile as this man? It's like it's 719 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:58.119 just again that same thing of like the the probably 720 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.039 at this point, Jeoffrey is the biggest and public enemy 721 00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.079 number one, but like Jamie's at this point not far 722 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:10.599 down the list. And so just to again like being 723 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:12.840 I'm able to escape the fact that he looks like 724 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:17.760 somebody who should be French charming and and is so 725 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.840 the opposite. So anyway, I do think I do think 726 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:26.840 of that clash of King's chapter first. I think that's 727 00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:27.679 where you also get the. 728 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.599 There are no men because there are two, because there 729 00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:35.800 are two, because you're because you're talking about the last one, 730 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.079 which is the last one, because the one before, like 731 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:42.440 when she goes down and he admits what happened. He's 732 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:47.199 also denying the the catspot dagger stuff and she denied, 733 00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.840 he denies it, and she believes them, and like she's 734 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.360 almost conflicted about believing him. And that's sort of like 735 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:58.119 you're like, oh, like he he's and you believe him too, 736 00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:00.840 Like he's giving so much that like, and. 737 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.280 He's also corroborating Tarrian. It's also corroborating Tyrian side and 738 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.039 ruining Bailish in her head, right because because she's like, 739 00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:14.199 why would Peter lie about this? Like you know, so 740 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:18.239 it's really just throwing a again, like he has he 741 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.400 has no reason to be dishonest. It's another just fascinating 742 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:27.079 aspect of the character where he's just like he owns 743 00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:32.320 up to his nonsense, like even when she's him about 744 00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.920 like is Jeoffrey R. Child he's like, come on, lady, 745 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.039 Like you wouldn't be asking if you didn't know already, 746 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:40.239 and like he owns up to it. He's not not 747 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:45.760 playing that game. And it's it's a very their dynamic. Yeah, 748 00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:49.079 their dynamic is super cool in that and in those 749 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:54.360 chapters where they interact. But but yeah, I guess you know, 750 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:58.519 just to go go to your like original point, I 751 00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:04.079 think to get the full story of what happened in 752 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:09.800 King's Landing that day was it's almost like vindicating because 753 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:13.199 you're probably even as a show, you're probably starting to 754 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:17.719 like this guy more as you're you're watching him. Just 755 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:19.840 get the crappy out of him. He's already lost his 756 00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:24.280 hand and and it's it's just so perfectly placed in 757 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.119 the in the pace how supposed to feel about Jamie 758 00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:32.599 because it's, you know, he's so broken, similarly to being 759 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:34.960 in the cell. He's got nothing left to lose, Like 760 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.280 like I don't I don't need to play this this 761 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:42.639 this uh this game game of through it, Like I 762 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:47.320 I don't we did it. He's like, I don't need 763 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.360 to do I don't need to be a bailish or 764 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.199 a varis like my my infrument is not that valuable 765 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:57.519 in the end, like it's it's just me, like and 766 00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.760 and I think he has somebody who, you know, he 767 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:08.239 learns to you know, trust, somebody like Brion and and 768 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.679 it's sort of confronted with this very different type of 769 00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:15.519 presence in his life. And and yeah, it reveals it 770 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:19.119 just compels him to to be that way. And and 771 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.280 there's probably like a lot of different ways to look 772 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:26.679 at it, whether it's like delirium from the pain or whatever, 773 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.599 or the situation and whatever, or just like the need 774 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:35.880 for this new person did not He's like, I can't 775 00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:40.440 have her think of me the way the way everyone 776 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.199 else does. Yeah, and I don't know which I assume 777 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.920 that's up for debate, like which which degree you think 778 00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:55.119 is the stronger one, But it's it's super fascinating, and 779 00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:59.280 it end to end that to end that sort of 780 00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.719 thing of like you know, stop calling me that my 781 00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:06.880 name is Jamie. Like it's just this like unburdening of 782 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.079 the character this this this again like fortress he built 783 00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:15.239 around himself to appear one way. He now wants to 784 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:17.880 be something else, at least to this person. 785 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:23.559 Yeah, no, it's it's it's uh, it's beautiful it's beautifully said, 786 00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:26.679 It's a beautiful moment, beautifully acted. You know, I was 787 00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:29.400 gonna ask earlier when coming into this, I was gonna 788 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:31.760 ask you what your favorite acting moments are from Nicola, 789 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:33.119 And then I was like, it's kind of a useless 790 00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.039 question one because he's incredible always. 791 00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:39.679 Actually, actually, I think I do have an answer. 792 00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:43.239 Oh, I want to hear it, I really do. 793 00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:47.519 We're fast, we're fast forwarding. But it is it is 794 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.719 the end of season seven when he walks away with Circy. Oh, 795 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:55.559 it's great, it's great, like like that scene. Oh, it's 796 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:02.559 and of course it's him and Elena that I think 797 00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:06.039 that I think might be a top fiver of the series. 798 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:12.280 But because it's so her based, uh, I think, I think. 799 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.280 I I think of the season seven ending a lot, 800 00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:18.599 and when when it came on, like I remember, like 801 00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:21.320 like literally had chills because I think because we were 802 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.000 so like on the edge of what we knew was 803 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:26.559 gonna happen. I mean, we were quite quite what we 804 00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:30.199 knew could happen, so like there, yeah, there was like 805 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.679 real peril in that moment. I remember, I have no 806 00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.119 idea what's going to happen. 807 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.360 Yeah, I flinched when the Mountain stepped to him. I 808 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:42.480 was I literally thought it was on. I did not 809 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.679 know what was going to happen in that scene. It 810 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:49.159 was terrifying. No, it's a great moment that. 811 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.920 Joe Otti's cooking and and and just his I don't 812 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:59.280 believe you Andy, and he leaves, Oh my god, Oh yeah, 813 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.000 I believed literally blew me away. 814 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:07.039 I will also give a shout out to uh nightig Bread. 815 00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:11.760 The final season is uh beautifully acted by both of them, 816 00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:12.639 by everybody who was. 817 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:14.599 If they had all died, they had all died in 818 00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:16.880 that battle, that would have been. 819 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:19.679 Would have been a great ending for them. 820 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:24.920 Uh. We could dive into like a thirty minute side 821 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.639 tant litigating endings. 822 00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:29.000 We'll table that. I think I want to. 823 00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:33.079 I think an endings revisited, UH side discussion should be 824 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:34.599 done at some point. But just because we're trying to 825 00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.920 keep all these short, do you have or shorter by 826 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:44.440 our standard? Do you have uh Jamie highlights that you 827 00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:51.320 think are more like personal your fandom, Like Jamie highlights 828 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.880 that that are not necessarily like the things that people 829 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:55.880 would write down for him, but just like things that 830 00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.280 stick out for you, even comedically or even with other people, 831 00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:02.239 like what are the moments that you go back to 832 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.880 the most with them. I think it could be on 833 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:08.800 the book too. It could be something that the show 834 00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:10.280 didn't do, if you want to do that as well. 835 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.280 Yeah, there's probably It's it's kind of like sad because 836 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.079 I probably don't remember the books as well in that regard. 837 00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:23.320 I think you've got you've got time, I know, right, 838 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:24.960 I know there's plenty of time to revisit. 839 00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:29.920 There's there's a moment at the end because they're all 840 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:33.039 going to be show. Probably I'll give the book one again. 841 00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:35.239 Sorry for Sorry for the spoiler again, it's been out 842 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:39.239 a while. There's at the end of Feast for Crows 843 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.519 there's a moment where, because so much of that book 844 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:45.519 is him building sort of the doubt, the fracturing of 845 00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:50.480 his relationship with Circey. Right, they literally he literally gets 846 00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:52.760 out of town because they're not things are not going 847 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:58.920 well between them, and uh, there's the moment when she's 848 00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:05.480 taken in by the high Sparrow and stuff, and she 849 00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.679 sends a letter to him to like come help her. 850 00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:12.639 He's like, Jamie, I need you. There's nobody else who 851 00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:16.639 can do this. Nobody else. I trust nobody, like nobody 852 00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:19.280 like you. And he puts the letter in the fire, 853 00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.360 and that's that's kind of how his arc ends, like 854 00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:26.039 like that's how his story ends. For Fees for Crows, 855 00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:31.079 I think is such an underrated novel and so many 856 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:35.400 storylines and on ship like that where it's like it's 857 00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:39.360 like oh oh oh, like like it's things that like 858 00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.400 if you can imagine them in the show, they'd be 859 00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:45.760 like holy crap, like like the Dornish plotline ending with 860 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:49.960 fire and blood like that, like so many like mic 861 00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:53.039 drop endings, And that was kind of Jamie's mic drop 862 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.840 ending for that book is is this Circe pleading? And 863 00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.159 he's just like and he's like, any three is it 864 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.320 in the fire? So that's that's one book moment I 865 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.239 really think about a lot and show. Ones that really 866 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:16.000 cracked me up are him Andarrian reminiscing about their cousin. 867 00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:18.119 I think the. 868 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:25.280 Like what is the names like Ormond or something or 869 00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:29.840 or well I don't know, or well I think because. 870 00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:33.800 Ville it could be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a 871 00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:35.840 really smash one day. 872 00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:43.639 Yeah, their gold together, they're great together. 873 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:46.840 Yeah, Jamie. The training sessions I think about a lot 874 00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:56.719 and and uh, man, yeah, just everything about him and Brion, 875 00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:01.239 especially especially what he gives her keeper. I think about 876 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:06.159 that a lot and and just sort of yeah, I 877 00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:09.079 remember season four opening with that the milking dice, and 878 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:13.239 and then that scene with Taiwan giving him the sword, 879 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:17.320 and he's kind of just like, you know, like it's 880 00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:21.320 it's just so many great things happen with him, in particular, 881 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:27.400 just the sort of melting away of his no world right, 882 00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:32.760 like he's it's like, yes, yes, he he was always 883 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:36.559 Dad's precious son, even when he let that down, and 884 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:43.039 that really just begins to dissipate, you know, through that season, 885 00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.960 and so like that. It stuff his relationship with Surc, 886 00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:51.800 and I guess the the Terrian relationship doesn't get the 887 00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.639 complications that the book gives it it. They leave it 888 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.880 pretty pretty sweet. I think that scene too, when he 889 00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:03.159 lets him out and then yeah, I know, I know 890 00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:07.519 you said we'll do. Man, I'm probably leaving off so 891 00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:12.639 many things that I shouldn't be, but I I even 892 00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:16.760 though he's not in it. I I sobbed like a 893 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:20.440 baby when Brian is filling out his pages. 894 00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.079 Oh well, when I said, I don't want to do 895 00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:26.079 ending discords. It's not because I don't want to. 896 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:26.880 It's right. 897 00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:32.079 It will take so long to talk about the Brion 898 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:35.679 romance and and the show having it and then did 899 00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:38.559 they walk okay back back? 900 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:42.320 Is it try? Is it toxic? Is it? It's just 901 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.679 so much But that, separately from what led to it, 902 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:47.880 that is a perfect scene. 903 00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:51.079 I mean, like just that much. 904 00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:53.360 And I'm glad you brought it up because it I 905 00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.039 hate to get the little bastard, well, I was gonna 906 00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:57.719 I hate to give the little bastard any credit. But 907 00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:02.880 the the Jeoffrey with the book is maybe my favorite 908 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.480 Geoffrey scene. And it's a great Jamie scene too, of uncle. 909 00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:14.239 It's like it's just not only not only is it 910 00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:20.639 so mean and and Jamie has the perfect answer, right, like, man, 911 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:25.159 there's still time and uh and and not only is 912 00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:28.000 that always funny, but it's it's especially funny because now 913 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:35.480 Jeoffrey has technically spoiled both spinoff shows, but yeah, openly 914 00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:40.679 and specifically yeah, and and doing so gleefully right, Like 915 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:44.039 it's almost like he knows, he's he knows these pissing 916 00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:50.679 people off outside of the characters, He's like it's fascinating. 917 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.440 Catching up on HBO. Are you looking back at the 918 00:55:53.519 --> 00:56:00.719 original show exactly exactly. It's it's brutal, it's brutal, but. 919 00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:06.320 But yeah, like pairing, pairing those scenes together, was it 920 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:08.480 like in your when you in your head or if 921 00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.719 you get a very clever edit of you know that 922 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.119 kind of stuff. I I love that ending. You know, again, 923 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.079 there's a lot of there's a lot of messy metal 924 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:22.760 ground and and some things that I think have value. Yeah, yeah, 925 00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:25.440 I think I think there are ways you can look 926 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:30.639 at the way Jamie's ark ultimately ends with him in 927 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.840 the world, but and that that have merit where when 928 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.400 maybe or you know, maybe there were other more satisfying ways, 929 00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:45.000 but just at least that moment for because it's also 930 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:48.320 such a mass moment for Brion to write those pages. 931 00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:52.920 That's like therapy for her, right like two to unburden 932 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.840 that I mean again talking about great actors, like the 933 00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.400 way Gwendolyn does that same with the tears in her 934 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:04.519 eyes doing like it's just you know, it's so it's 935 00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:09.519 kind of like I really love that the show when 936 00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:12.880 it's like here's the last word on Jen, I love that. 937 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:13.840 It's a beautiful scene. 938 00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:18.159 Yeah, and it's to tie it in with you know, 939 00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:18.719 your note. 940 00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:21.719 The threat of this whole conversation has been perception, right, 941 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:25.239 and how he is a creature who I feel we're 942 00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:26.880 just like other guys in this world. I feel like 943 00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:31.559 his own father is obviously entirely motivated by a perception. 944 00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:35.000 Turian's whole life is kind of like that damon. 945 00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:35.480 You know. 946 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.000 Years prior in House of the Dragon, I've talked a 947 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.199 lot about how he is a character that's so aware 948 00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:43.760 of his role and where he fits and how he 949 00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:45.719 doesn't fit, and what his brother thinks of him, and 950 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:49.880 that Jamie, even though he isn't around to know it. 951 00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:53.840 When when it's all said and done, you know, Brion, 952 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:54.639 she she called it. 953 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:55.920 She called it like she saw it. 954 00:57:56.719 --> 00:58:00.599 She spoke truth and the facts are there, But like 955 00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:04.880 she doesn't say, like the kings Slayer, you know, was 956 00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:09.440 a sister efing this that who died because he couldn't 957 00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:13.000 pick a side. She keeps it at he died in 958 00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.559 service of protecting his queen, like and that it's a 959 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:20.840 very just like it's generous, it's it's a compassionate read. 960 00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.599 It doesn't betray things that she was told in confidence, 961 00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:28.639 but it indicates Uh, it's not neutral. It's not neutral, 962 00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:31.159 it's it's an act of care. Like it's just uh, 963 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:33.400 but it doesn't have to overplay its hand, you know, 964 00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:35.599 the people that know. No, you know, I'm sure she can. 965 00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:37.519 I'm sure she can talk to Tyrian about him if 966 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:40.679 she wants. But those are those are things for her. 967 00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:45.679 I just read it as sort of like for her, 968 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.559 it's like a forgiveness flash, like self forgiveness thing. That's 969 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:54.440 how I always twik m. Whereas like I'm gonna unburden 970 00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:59.440 that experience for me. But it is also just again fascinating, 971 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:04.239 Like you said, like Taiwan Lanister's only thing is legacy, right, 972 00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:09.960 And it's like, in the end, how will Tewyn be remembered? 973 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:15.239 And I'm gonna say probably, I doubt with what's gone on, 974 00:59:16.039 --> 00:59:20.400 there's too much to remember about it. Like I don't think. 975 00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:22.519 I think you know, people will be like, oh yeah, 976 00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:24.840 Taiwan Lanister. But also you know, we had white Walkers 977 00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.159 and then this lady blew up the seat with her dragon. 978 00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:35.159 But Jamie Lanister's legacy is in pages of this sacred 979 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:41.679 book and will be that for the generations to follow. 980 00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:46.519 As long as wester Ross still stands and Kingsguard still exists, 981 00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:55.320 like the the the the commendations and feats of Kings 982 00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:00.639 will be remembered and and and again. Like yeah, like Brian, 983 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:04.280 Brian made the choice to do that in a way 984 01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:09.400 that isn't slanderous or anything, but is is yeah, just 985 01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:12.639 straight up, straight up honest. I I just I love 986 01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:16.880 the little things when she's like he like completely routed 987 01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:23.280 them like the undefeated Army of the Like she's she's 988 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:26.719 like even hyping him right like and it's and it's 989 01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:30.119 like it's a really like beautiful thing of forgiveness, I 990 01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:33.559 think in the end, and and just sort of like 991 01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:36.800 she felt like she she she kind of owed that 992 01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:41.559 much at least. And I always laugh at one of 993 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:45.239 the memes around that time when the finale aird and 994 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:47.039 you know, obviously a lot of people had a lot 995 01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:51.239 of things to say, but but one of the one 996 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:52.960 of them is her writing in the book and then 997 01:00:53.519 --> 01:01:04.360 it's the screenshot from me and girls like this, So yeah, 998 01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:06.239 I uh yeah, I love. 999 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:08.800 The point that you brought up about Taiwan, about Taiwan 1000 01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:12.079 with Legacy, because Taiwan's intro scene is a Jamie scene, 1001 01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:15.639 and in the show it's played so perfectly. It's when 1002 01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:18.880 you get one of my favorite line deliveries, maybe ever, 1003 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:20.400 I was gonna say, a Game of Thrones and maybe 1004 01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:24.159 in anything ever television or film, which is big knife 1005 01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:24.559 in hand. 1006 01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:28.880 There's not an opinion, it's a fact, like. 1007 01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:32.760 That's gonna be That's gonna be under tombstone. 1008 01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:39.159 Honestly, it might because Jamie really thinks he has something there. 1009 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:40.519 He thinks he got dad. 1010 01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:44.239 When he's like, so the line does cons and Taiwand 1011 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:47.360 is like, don't you ever try to get snarky with me? 1012 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:50.559 Yeah, don't you ever? 1013 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:53.360 And and it, but it puts Jamie under the thumb, 1014 01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:55.719 like really early in the story of what that means. 1015 01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:58.079 And obviously the books are not complete, so if we 1016 01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:00.519 just take it as show endings, it's like, what is 1017 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:04.960 Taiwan's legacy the mad Well, you know, they'll probably call 1018 01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:08.760 Denaris the mad Queen, but like unfortunately, but you know, 1019 01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:11.480 you had the crazy incession, his daughter who blew up 1020 01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:16.679 the stept and was an insane by the end, basically 1021 01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:20.320 terrorist of a tyrant woman with a zombie protector. So like, 1022 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:25.440 horrible mark on your legacy. You have the controversial, but 1023 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:28.840 you know, we'll probably be doing better going forward hand 1024 01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:31.320 of the king's son. But you hated him and he 1025 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.199 killed you, so that's a mark against legacy. The only 1026 01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:37.559 good thing that you're left with really to your name 1027 01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:40.400 is the son that you thought was an idiot who 1028 01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:45.320 really cared about knighthood and only ever had knighthood either 1029 01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:49.960 weaponized against him for his own reputation, or was a 1030 01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:56.400 pawn in Tywan's machinations, like Aris using Jamie's knighthood to 1031 01:02:56.519 --> 01:02:58.440 fuck with Taiwan, you. 1032 01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.960 Know, being a politics of it all. 1033 01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:04.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like Jamie's knighthood was always tied to like, 1034 01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.280 oh it was just nice knighthood, but his position on 1035 01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:11.320 the King's guard was always a an era of like 1036 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:13.960 obviously he earned it by skill and he probably would 1037 01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.320 have gotten on anyway, but like, was I just named 1038 01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:21.719 here to bring ruin to the house And that is 1039 01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:24.800 finally shaken, I think by the end, and that there's 1040 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:27.559 no mention of him. He stands on his own. You know, 1041 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:29.119 do you know how hard it is to be your 1042 01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:29.599 own man? 1043 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.000 When you're telling me, man. 1044 01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:38.079 A new meme has truly been born, and it is 1045 01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:40.920 we're gonna get mileage out of that one. Yeah, I 1046 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:44.280 think my last question, oh go ahead, yeah, the last question. 1047 01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:45.960 No, I was I was really just gonna say, like, 1048 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:49.280 you know, there probably will have to be Jamie Part two, 1049 01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:52.599 because yes, I think there's there's so many like family 1050 01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:56.000 dynamics that or and like just the reason of why 1051 01:03:56.559 --> 01:03:58.960 for so much of him, you know, like he only 1052 01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:01.000 really went to kings Landing to stay with Mercy, like 1053 01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:04.800 he probably would have been forced to stay in Casterly Rock. 1054 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:08.960 But you know, the very is very I don't know 1055 01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:11.599 even know what we're to use for it, what adjective 1056 01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.719 to use for their relationship, because again, you know there's 1057 01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:18.280 where it's like it's one of the more honest love 1058 01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:22.039 affairs in in the the universe of Westers, and so 1059 01:04:22.159 --> 01:04:22.440 it's like. 1060 01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:22.880 I don't know. 1061 01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.599 Yet whatever you want to call it. Because again in 1062 01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:32.039 that Catlan scene where where he's like he's like, you know, 1063 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:36.880 I've only ever been with my sister, but honorable Ned 1064 01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:42.639 went behind your back, like like there's just always there, always, 1065 01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:46.760 you know, there's always an angle. So like there's a 1066 01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:49.800 lot to talk about. Still, I don't want I don't 1067 01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:53.559 want people to think we got like we are these 1068 01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:55.199 like nitty gritty. 1069 01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:56.800 Character. 1070 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.440 The way they are, We're definitely gonna have to do 1071 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:04.719 a part two. You're right, there's so much, there's so 1072 01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:07.800 much to dig into with just like his changes. There's 1073 01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:09.760 stuff that like, there's thoughts that I had that like 1074 01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:12.480 we just can't back into an hour of like how 1075 01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:14.960 how uncomfortable it is to see especially like in the 1076 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:18.199 show when he's back in the King's Guard Gold, especially 1077 01:05:18.280 --> 01:05:21.199 like for the wedding and stuff like it just looks, 1078 01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:23.760 you know, like short haired Jamie and that armor. He 1079 01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:27.599 looks like a prisoner, even though he's walking around with power. Again, 1080 01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:29.360 he looks like a prisoner, Like it's such a weird 1081 01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:30.320 dynamic when he does. 1082 01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:33.360 Yeah, he does. He's been changed. 1083 01:05:35.079 --> 01:05:36.719 Well and well and on a real one. And then 1084 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:38.599 well then we'll close on something fun. I'll think of 1085 01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:42.239 something fun while you're talking, because I asked this to 1086 01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:44.840 Andy about Brian and it was and ended up with 1087 01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.159 a funny answer. I asked Andy, what challenges you about Brian? 1088 01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:50.920 You know you love this character so much, what really 1089 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.920 challenges you? And Andy's answer was book Brand's kind of dumb, 1090 01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:57.239 which I think is a great edd Like she's just 1091 01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:01.079 academically written to be not as smart and capable in 1092 01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:04.159 some ways, as as as Gwendolen's. Is this something that 1093 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:06.320 rubs you the wrong way about Jamie, like in a 1094 01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:08.320 real way, or something that you're like, come on, man 1095 01:06:08.679 --> 01:06:10.719 like or or or something that that. 1096 01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:16.519 This is certainly a book thing. I can't remember the 1097 01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:24.000 extent to the show. Does this? It probably does, but 1098 01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:26.559 I just don't remember. So I'm gonna angle it more 1099 01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:29.559 towards the book. He has as of yet in the 1100 01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:34.719 book accepted it was the wrong thing to try to 1101 01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:35.559 kill a child. 1102 01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:41.199 Yeah, you may have. 1103 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.920 You may have watched the episodes more recently than I have, 1104 01:06:44.239 --> 01:06:49.480 because obviously the premiere of season eight as with an 1105 01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:54.639 all timer, great brand Jamie kind of like Showdown with 1106 01:06:55.039 --> 01:07:04.800 the the Fergies London Bridge mean version of That's so, 1107 01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:11.519 I don't remember if they really if he's really like 1108 01:07:12.920 --> 01:07:15.440 sorry man, I think he does. I think he doesn't. 1109 01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:18.440 He apologizes, I don't remember what he says, but he 1110 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:19.199 does apologize. 1111 01:07:20.119 --> 01:07:23.079 But I feel like in the books, in the books 1112 01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:28.000 he's gone on this like very significant character arc slash 1113 01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:31.599 reveal slash whatever is like the right word for it. 1114 01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:35.079 But he doesn't. I don't if he's really gotten to 1115 01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:40.000 the place of like, yeah, like it's like, yeah, he's 1116 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:44.639 lying about it. He owes up to it, but I 1117 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:48.679 don't think he's quite calculated that it was wrong to 1118 01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:51.159 try to kill the kid. But then you know, I 1119 01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:55.079 don't I don't know, Like the currency with which people 1120 01:07:56.199 --> 01:07:59.400 do things in this world is different, right, Like I 1121 01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:02.960 think that's you know, the one of the things that 1122 01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:07.559 always bugs me about sort of the way Danariss looked 1123 01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:12.000 upon when she like cutes Harley's it's like she didn't 1124 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.440 do anything someone else wouldn't have done, Like someone else 1125 01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:16.800 would have done it the exact same thing she did 1126 01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.600 it with the dragon. And you know, the terms of 1127 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:29.159 the terms of you know, processing and negotiating and making 1128 01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:31.279 you know, what people are willing to forgive are very 1129 01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:34.960 different in Westero. So maybe maybe this this guy can't 1130 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:37.720 even imagine that, you know, I had kill him because 1131 01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:41.399 you know he's gonna reveal a secret, right. But I 1132 01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:45.439 would say that's probably the most challenging thing is just 1133 01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:49.399 for as much as all the good he does, you 1134 01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:53.039 can't really escape the fact that right right off the 1135 01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:54.840 bat he tried to kid. 1136 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:02.439 Yeah it's not great, uh, but it does make for 1137 01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:04.399 great TV, and I think that he's why a lot 1138 01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:06.600 of people tuned in for the next Is it. 1139 01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:08.800 One of the best, Is it one of the best 1140 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:12.640 pilot it kind of has, it has to be. 1141 01:09:13.039 --> 01:09:13.479 It has to be. 1142 01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:17.319 If not the best, it's insane. And his line delivery 1143 01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:21.000 is perfect. Of things I do for love is perfect? Right, 1144 01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:23.920 Last question, just to be on on something light and 1145 01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:29.760 and again unique to you. What is a Jamie Lanister uh, 1146 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:34.479 piece of merchandise that does not exist that you would 1147 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:37.479 like to will into existence? What is something that he 1148 01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:40.199 has that you're like, I would wear that, I would 1149 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:42.800 cosplay that. I want that prop. I want the thing 1150 01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:45.359 because I I you know, my mind for Jamie is 1151 01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:47.399 very easy, but I think it already exists. Is that 1152 01:09:47.479 --> 01:09:49.520 I would just like to have the gold hand like 1153 01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:50.319 as like a shelf. 1154 01:09:50.600 --> 01:10:03.359 Yeah, that's a good one. Hm hmm. I really I 1155 01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:07.800 really like him when he's in Lanister arm. I think 1156 01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:13.159 there's something really cool about that look in particular. So 1157 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:16.520 maybe if I would going on a cosplay angle, that'd 1158 01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.600 be kind of cool. But then I just like a 1159 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:24.760 Lanister soldier maybe, and maybe that's less great. I think 1160 01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:28.800 I think there's one thing that I do think is 1161 01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:33.640 kind of cool again, and in sort of the way 1162 01:10:33.720 --> 01:10:36.600 and where you can say, like maybe this is a 1163 01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:45.520 reclamation as opposed to like keeping it, uh, sort of 1164 01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:48.640 like tied to someone who we don't like. But I'd 1165 01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:51.479 like that he uses I like that he uses the 1166 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:55.239 other Widow's whale. I don't know if he renames it, 1167 01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:58.279 but I like that he's sort of when Jeffrey is dead, 1168 01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:00.239 he sort of and he gives it was keeper way 1169 01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:04.600 he takes that one, and and there's something there's something 1170 01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:08.359 in the end that I kind of like about. You know, 1171 01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:13.600 he knew that sort came from and it sort of 1172 01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:19.840 felt right being with somebody who kind of understood the 1173 01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:23.119 you know, at least had had a respect for the Starks, 1174 01:11:23.319 --> 01:11:25.159 you know, and and sort of took it away from 1175 01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:29.560 being Jeoffrey sword. So so now thinking kind of thinking 1176 01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:32.079 maybe that sword would be cool because I think they 1177 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:33.159 made like an oath keeper. 1178 01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:38.279 But there's oath keepers and there's book oathkeeper. 1179 01:11:38.319 --> 01:11:39.880 I think Andy has book Oathkeeper. 1180 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:40.560 Uh. 1181 01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:42.520 That's a great point. 1182 01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:45.960 I like the ruby pommel also on that sword. It's 1183 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:46.479 very cool. 1184 01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:47.960 It's sick. No. 1185 01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:50.319 I love that point too, because it's like cat it's 1186 01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:52.760 not like him and Cat were close, obviously not, but 1187 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:56.319 like him and Brion fulfill something. 1188 01:11:56.119 --> 01:11:59.000 For her or try to, they spiritually try to do right. 1189 01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:02.079 And so that day that yeah, like at least you 1190 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:05.199 know that there's like that, the remnants of Ice are 1191 01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:07.920 carried with you know, people doing their best, you know. 1192 01:12:08.159 --> 01:12:11.840 Versus and and then he knights he knights Brian with 1193 01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:16.279 that sort knights Brian. So so maybe I'll go with that. 1194 01:12:16.600 --> 01:12:19.439 I don't know. I will not call it Jeoffrey's sword 1195 01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:22.239 Widow's will, but I would think of it as jas 1196 01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:23.840 sword that he united Brion with. 1197 01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:29.359 And also not for nothing, not for nothing, this could 1198 01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:31.000 be its own episode and maybe we'll you know what, 1199 01:12:31.359 --> 01:12:32.479 let's hold me to this. 1200 01:12:32.560 --> 01:12:35.279 If you're watching listening, we at some point should get 1201 01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:37.800 Ken and maybe whoever else wants to come and do 1202 01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:41.920 a group discussion about how awesome it would be if 1203 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:47.920 we had a robust like peak Hasbro Star Wars, Ice 1204 01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:49.159 and fire finger line. 1205 01:12:49.359 --> 01:12:51.560 Yeah, because the fact that we don't like them have 1206 01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:54.039 like are we talking like black series level? 1207 01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:58.159 Like well, I'm talking like black Well black series level 1208 01:12:58.239 --> 01:13:00.279 right now, which would be you know, bleak, Like. 1209 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:04.399 I mean, like give me eight Star Wars. 1210 01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:06.880 Now that there's that many characters, like, there should be 1211 01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:10.119 a Jamie throughout the seasons. You should be able to 1212 01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:14.119 get Jamie red Armor with widows Will, Jamie King's Guard, 1213 01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:18.760 Jamie Leather, fatigues, Jamie mud Jamie. 1214 01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:22.000 This is if this is yeah, if this is high, 1215 01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:26.399 if this is high like High Tide Star Wars action figuring, 1216 01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:30.199 we probably have Jamie like behind the scenes, Jamie with 1217 01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:35.880 the fake prosthetic and his real hand. We probably have 1218 01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:37.319 all all, as. 1219 01:13:37.239 --> 01:13:39.479 You said, behind the scenes. So you said behind the scenes. 1220 01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:41.520 I will close this by saying, and then then we 1221 01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:44.600 will go. I will close this by saying, the hit 1222 01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:47.560 clip of Peter and Nicola I dancing into the trial 1223 01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:51.199 is one of the best clips of anything. 1224 01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:55.279 It's so so joyful doing the little dances and everything 1225 01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:57.920 like it is. It's the best. It's the best. 1226 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.760 Yeh that I can't wait to talk about Tyrian on 1227 01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.520 one of these Yeah, this has been so much fun, man. 1228 01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:05.800 And then yeah, like you said, we'll have to do 1229 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:07.560 a part two. I'll have to do some Jamie follow ups. 1230 01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:10.920 If anybody has specific things that you're like, oh, you know, 1231 01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:12.600 there's so much Jami stuff. You should have talked about this, 1232 01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.600 or you should talk about this, or talk more about 1233 01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:16.640 his battle highlights, talk more about his career. 1234 01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:18.800 Trust me, we want to and we will. 1235 01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:22.520 Leave those in the comments. Nicky's links will be down below. 1236 01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:25.520 This is the Fast Plugs version. Nicky's links are down below. 1237 01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:27.520 My links are down below. Ken's links are down below. 1238 01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:29.680 Boom, there you go. You don't care about any of that. 1239 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:31.880 We're gonna get right out of here. Thank you so much. 1240 01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:33.640 I have been all the in. This has been Nicky, 1241 01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:35.800 and we will catch you next time. Right here, I'll 1242 01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:36.720 cashually talk about