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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with

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<v Speaker 1>no ads?

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<v Speaker 2>Easy?

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<v Speaker 1>Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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<v Speaker 1>get access to a private RSS feed where all the

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<v Speaker 1>shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug.

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<v Speaker 1>Sign up now at patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back to dot net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin, an

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<v Speaker 1>amateur Campbell and this is episode in nineteen forty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Richard Yay, end of the war.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're inching closer, aren't we. Let's talk about what

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<v Speaker 1>happened in nineteen forty six. The of course, the post

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<v Speaker 1>World War II world saw the establishment of the United

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<v Speaker 1>Nations after the dissolution of the League of Nations, the

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<v Speaker 1>Philippines gained independence, Italy abolished its monarchy, the US Atomic

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<v Speaker 1>Energy Commission was established, the Soviet Union rejected a US

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<v Speaker 1>proposal for an international agency to control nuclear energy production

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<v Speaker 1>and research, and the ENIAC, the first electronic digital computer,

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<v Speaker 1>was dedicated. You got anything else to add to that list?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean INIAC was electronic. It had eighteen thousand

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<v Speaker 2>vacuum tubes. Yeah, so you know, you can you can

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<v Speaker 2>debate how electronic it necessarily was. I was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what the processing rate of it was, because

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<v Speaker 2>it could do something like five thousand additions per second

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<v Speaker 2>and it did have one hundred kilohertz clock. Wow that

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<v Speaker 2>there was one table I found this at It runs

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<v Speaker 2>at about five hundred flops or floating floating boat operations

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<v Speaker 2>per second.

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<v Speaker 1>So I just remember Uniblab from the Jetsons. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>remember that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a year in a blab And it was of

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<v Speaker 2>course originally built to do artillery table calculations, right, that

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<v Speaker 2>was three or four years earlier. But by the time

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<v Speaker 2>they actually get it built, most protect stuff solved, and

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<v Speaker 2>they've shrunk down artillery table calculators enough that they're now

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<v Speaker 2>being put inside of battleships. The very first program that

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<v Speaker 2>it ran was a Monti Carlo simulation for calculating neutron

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<v Speaker 2>propagation in thermonuclear weapons.

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<v Speaker 1>How does Monty Carlo and thermonuclear weapons go together? In

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<v Speaker 1>the same sentence, I'm glad you asked.

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<v Speaker 2>A Monty Carlo simulation is an idea that we don't

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<v Speaker 2>know all of the variables. We just know some behavior

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<v Speaker 2>of some elements. In this particular case, you're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>neutron propagations of how neutrons move through certain materials, and

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<v Speaker 2>so you're able to run multiple simultaneous calculations. It's too

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<v Speaker 2>hard to do by hand. You needed a fast computer,

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<v Speaker 2>and at that time, ENIAC was the fast computer that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of proved that a Monte Carlo simulation is even possible.

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<v Speaker 1>So they call it a Monti Carlos simulation because it's

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<v Speaker 1>related to gambling of some kind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was partly at one of the scientists that

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<v Speaker 2>have a degenerate uncle that was prone to gambling. They

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<v Speaker 2>needed a code name, so it started out as kind

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<v Speaker 2>of the code name. Okay, but it is a a

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<v Speaker 2>probabilistic heroism calculator, which is kind of the way a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of gambling numbers work anyway, So it all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of goes together. There's a randomness factor to this, But

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<v Speaker 2>I would point out it did demonstrate that beryllium was

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<v Speaker 2>an effective reflector of neutrons at a certain rate, so

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<v Speaker 2>they knew how thick to make the linings to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to do the second stage explosions like it worked

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<v Speaker 2>at bend the path that would take several years for

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<v Speaker 2>them to actually build a working thermonucular device and go

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<v Speaker 2>from kilotons to megatons. But this was the beginning of it.

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<v Speaker 2>An ediac was key to it. Wow, it's good to

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<v Speaker 2>know history, kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just listen to Uncle Richard and we do geek

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<v Speaker 1>outs on these things occasionally once a year around the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the year. So if you just search geek

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<v Speaker 1>out on our air rocks dot com set, you can

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<v Speaker 1>find a whole host of topics. All right, well, let's

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<v Speaker 1>get started with better no framework roll the music. So

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<v Speaker 1>what I have is a little tool that I wrote

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<v Speaker 1>for Blazer. It's a Blazer component called AVN Audio AVN

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<v Speaker 1>for app v next that records audio and provides buffers

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<v Speaker 1>in real time. So, knowing the topic that we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about with l S today, I pulled this up.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not audio and video in dot net. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Blazer. So it's web based audio. We're actually using

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<v Speaker 1>a web based tool right now to record audio and

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<v Speaker 1>video in real time. And the reason that it works

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<v Speaker 1>is because the browsers now support these standards that make

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<v Speaker 1>this stuff possible and finally obtainable for your average JavaScript developer.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's really remarkable. Like we're looking at our video

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<v Speaker 1>in real time, we're listening to each other in almost

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<v Speaker 1>real time. You know, there's a little delay, but you

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<v Speaker 1>don't notice it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's close enough, right, that's the key.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not perfect, right, And it's uploading our audio in

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<v Speaker 1>the background as we're recording it. And then by the

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<v Speaker 1>time we're done, you know, maybe five ten seconds later,

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<v Speaker 1>it's there. It's all there in the cloud. So the

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<v Speaker 1>technology has really gotten good. And I use this opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to create a component that we'll start recording audio and

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<v Speaker 1>then call you back in you know in Blazer and

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<v Speaker 1>see sharp were the buffer and you can do whatever

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<v Speaker 1>you want with that buffer. You can compress it and

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<v Speaker 1>stream it, you can write it to disc all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff. So I thought that would be a

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<v Speaker 1>fun little way to start just and it uses well,

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<v Speaker 1>it used to use ffm peg, but there's one demo

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<v Speaker 1>that does use it. So ffm peg is a command

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<v Speaker 1>line tool for doing all kinds of things with audio

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<v Speaker 1>and video and it works great and c sharp if

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<v Speaker 1>you're using standard in Standard out. Just a great little tool.

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<v Speaker 1>Use it all the time anyway, That's what I got Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>and who's talking to us today.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't do audio video too often, so I jumped

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<v Speaker 2>into the wayback machine. I went back to twenty thirteenth

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<v Speaker 2>episode eight point fifty four, when Mark Heath talked about

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<v Speaker 2>audio and Windows. Yeah, specifically the project he was working on,

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<v Speaker 2>which was an audio in CodePlex code plex. I love

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<v Speaker 2>in audio and got it. We got a ton of

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<v Speaker 2>comments on the show. I just grabbed one give mely

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<v Speaker 2>twelve years ago. This from Jph says, Hey, Carl, what

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<v Speaker 2>a great geek out show. I'm sure some of the

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<v Speaker 2>discussion took a lot of the listeners, including myself, back

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<v Speaker 2>to the SoundBlaster days. Oh yeah, I remember getting my

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<v Speaker 2>sound blaster back in the early nineties. I was thinking

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<v Speaker 2>how magical it was to record and play wave files

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<v Speaker 2>a computer, producing real time sounds. Magic. Yeah, And obviously

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<v Speaker 2>we've come a long way since then, and things usually

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<v Speaker 2>work pretty well on Windows when you just need a

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<v Speaker 2>standard audio playback. There's one thing though, when we all

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<v Speaker 2>went from XP or Vista to Win seven and most

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<v Speaker 2>people with built in sound cards lost the capability record

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what you hear as standard out of the output back,

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<v Speaker 2>which it can awesome be useful. There's also an option

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<v Speaker 2>to you in the Windows Sound Mixer, but for some

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<v Speaker 2>reason we've lost that and it was you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>was in there somewhere, but they were messing like how

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<v Speaker 2>many different flipping control panels do you need? Right, It's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Discussion about doing real time audio processing and showing wave

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<v Speaker 2>forms of meters during recording reminded me of something that

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<v Speaker 2>has in fact only a tangent but appealed to me

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<v Speaker 2>as a dev when I was tickering with MIDI controllers. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>and it may be helpful people who don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>shallow a lot of cash for MIDI hardware. Touch osc

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<v Speaker 2>is an application for touch devices, iOS and Android admittedly

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<v Speaker 2>is in twenty thirteen. Right I moved on that lets

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<v Speaker 2>you define a rich MIDI control surface with buttons, rotary knobs,

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<v Speaker 2>faders and even xypads and other controls, then shows up

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<v Speaker 2>as a regular MIDI controller on computer via Wi Fi.

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<v Speaker 2>Had great fun hooking up different controls to minifunctions using

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<v Speaker 2>your form designer and using it on an iPad as

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<v Speaker 2>a control ser geeky audio stuff and computers. I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I have a little history with a

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<v Speaker 1>sound blaster because at the time the MIDI pack for

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<v Speaker 1>the sound Blaster came out company. I worked for Voyetra Technologies.

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<v Speaker 1>They had the deal with the sound Blaster to provide

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<v Speaker 1>that hardware and the sequencer sequencer plus software, and I

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<v Speaker 1>was tasked with making some sample MIDI files that could

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<v Speaker 1>be shipped with it. And so when if you got

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<v Speaker 1>the sound Blaster MIDI add on you look at those

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<v Speaker 1>mini files. Yeah, I wrote those.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, I remember going out to dinner with mister sim

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<v Speaker 1>who is the inventor of the sound Blaster, and seeing

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<v Speaker 1>actually him at PCXPO I think it was at the

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<v Speaker 1>time the Javit Center, and he wanted me to record

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<v Speaker 1>re record the files for the Talking Parrot. You remember

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<v Speaker 1>the talking parrot Elias right, yeah, yeah, And I never did.

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<v Speaker 2>I was such a jerk.

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<v Speaker 1>I could have done that too, because he wanted, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>funnier things than he had responded with the parrot. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>you talk to the parrot and it gives you these crazy, wacky,

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<v Speaker 1>high pitched responses.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't touch me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, die q, I think that was one of mine. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do it, but it was fun, fun times, fun times.

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<v Speaker 2>So thanks JP for your comment and a copy of

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<v Speaker 2>music co buy is on it's way to you, and

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<v Speaker 2>if you'd like copy music, go buy. I write a

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<v Speaker 2>comment on the website at dot at rocks dot com

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<v Speaker 2>or on the facebooks. We publish every show there and

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<v Speaker 2>if you comment there, and every ready on the show

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<v Speaker 2>was at your copy music, go by.

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<v Speaker 1>And music to code by going strong. We've got track

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two now and you can go to music toocode

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<v Speaker 1>by dot net, which is a URL rerouter. So HDTPS

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<v Speaker 1>isn't going to work. But if you just say music

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<v Speaker 1>tocode by dot net, that'll bring you there and you

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<v Speaker 1>can get just track twenty two if you want, or

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<v Speaker 1>the entire collection in MP three wave or flack format.

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<v Speaker 1>So with that, let's bring back to dot net Rocks.

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<v Speaker 1>Elias Purinin He is an early innovator in digital event

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<v Speaker 1>experiences and the founder of Tractus Events. As both a

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<v Speaker 1>programmer and producer, he leverages av over, IP and NDI technology,

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<v Speaker 1>which I also love to deliver broadcast quality conferences, trade shows,

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<v Speaker 1>and workshops on any budget. Elias personally develops much of

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<v Speaker 1>the software his team uses, ensuring every aspect of production

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<v Speaker 1>is tightly controlled. His high standards for quality have led

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<v Speaker 1>to award winning events, including a collaboration with University of

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<v Speaker 1>Waterloost Speed that garnered over fourteen thousand views and earned

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<v Speaker 1>a Case Circle of Excellence Award. He is also the

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<v Speaker 1>author of Memorable, Profitable Virtual How to run virtual Events

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<v Speaker 1>that create meaning, value and lasting connections. Finally, for the

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<v Speaker 1>nerd crads. Elias first started with VB dot net one

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<v Speaker 1>point one back in two thousand and five, but has

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<v Speaker 1>since crossed over the dark side and writes almost everything

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<v Speaker 1>in C sharp these days. He used C to write

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<v Speaker 1>games for the Game Boy Advance. He programmed a game

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<v Speaker 1>for the Atari twenty six hundred in six five h

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<v Speaker 1>two assembly in twenty four hours, and loves writing a

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<v Speaker 1>great select Star from a sequel server database.

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<v Speaker 2>How to make your DBAs angry. That's right, select Star.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back, Elias, Thank you gentlemen.

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<v Speaker 3>It's awesome to be back. I cannot wait to talk

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<v Speaker 3>P and voke and NDI and.

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<v Speaker 1>Every day day over ip P and voke Man, we

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<v Speaker 1>were talking about one of the earliest components or ds

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<v Speaker 1>that I wrote for dot net was in vbnet and

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<v Speaker 1>I used P and voke to do to simplify access to.

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<v Speaker 3>MIDI right and so like back then, we didn't have

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<v Speaker 3>any audio, we didn't have any of those other tools,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you had to go into what was it the MMAPI, right, MULTIMEDIAPI.

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<v Speaker 1>To do that MULTIMEDIAPI.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that was. But what's stunning is how little

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<v Speaker 3>the p and voke APIs have changed in dot Net,

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<v Speaker 3>Like how you actually write that code. Yeah, and how

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<v Speaker 3>relevant it is like twenty plus years later.

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<v Speaker 1>And just to back up, p invoke stands for platform invoke.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a way that you can use whatever

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<v Speaker 1>managed language that you want to make API calls to

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<v Speaker 1>the unmanaged platform APIs that you're running on.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, So imagine you've got a unmanaged DLL of some

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<v Speaker 3>sort and it does something for you, and you want

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<v Speaker 3>to use the result of a function call from that

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<v Speaker 3>DLL in you want to as a result of that

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<v Speaker 3>in C sharp or just dot net in general. You

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<v Speaker 3>could do that with VBNT two. So you would write

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<v Speaker 3>a special function wrapper, you know, especially defined function like

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<v Speaker 3>public extern void, whatever, the signature name is, put in

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<v Speaker 3>the right parameters, decorate it with the correct attribute, and maam,

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<v Speaker 3>now you can call into As long as that DLL

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<v Speaker 3>can be found by your process, you can call into

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<v Speaker 3>that DLL.

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<v Speaker 1>And your parameter types are absolutely accurate. If they're not

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<v Speaker 1>all things, all sorts of weird things will happen.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh boy, how do you well? Lots of weird things happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, your compiler won't necessarily know about it ahead of time,

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<v Speaker 1>will it?

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<v Speaker 3>No, not necessarily. And sometimes the runtime errors that you'll get,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you'll just crash out. You won't even get

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<v Speaker 3>an exception, and things will just fall over that said

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<v Speaker 3>the compiler, even though the compiler may not catch it.

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<v Speaker 3>There have been instances, and we'll talk about that. We'll

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<v Speaker 3>talk about specifics later, especially around union types where at

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<v Speaker 3>runtime you'll get very specific pacific errors to say, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>your structs aren't defined properly. Yeah, but that's we'll talk

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<v Speaker 3>about kind of the nuts and bolts there later.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we talk about the wisdom of using a garbage

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<v Speaker 2>collected language in a real time operation like an event?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? For sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Shouldn't this all be written in C plus plus? Like?

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<v Speaker 2>Why are you in the p and voke land? Why

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<v Speaker 2>aren't you staying closer to the metal?

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<v Speaker 3>So I thought about this. I thought about this a

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<v Speaker 3>lot because the background behind what I've been doing for

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<v Speaker 3>the last probably two years has been real time audio

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<v Speaker 3>and video, specifically using a technology called NDI. NDI short

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<v Speaker 3>for Network Device Interface. Long and short of it is,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a way to send real time audio and video

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<v Speaker 3>over a LAMB. And when I'm talking real time, we're

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<v Speaker 3>talking latency of a frame or less.

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<v Speaker 1>In some cases it can be Yeah, you have to

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<v Speaker 1>have a very fast network. But there's oh boy, are

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<v Speaker 1>there a lot of variables on that one. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>the network, The knicks have to be configured, good drivers,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's a lot that goes into it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I've done a lot of research on it. But

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<v Speaker 3>the upshot is the lowest theoretical latency that I've read

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<v Speaker 3>is down in the number of scan lines. Wow, so

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<v Speaker 3>less than a frame of latency you get down to

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<v Speaker 3>scan lines.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great. Well, especially when you're talking about four K

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<v Speaker 2>where you've got what twenty one sixty scan lines per frame.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's I mean there's a lot of asterisks

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<v Speaker 3>to achieve that low latency, right, But I mean, if.

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<v Speaker 1>You're doing four K over a one hundred megabit network

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<v Speaker 1>is not going to get You're not do net ain't

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<v Speaker 1>going to work.

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<v Speaker 2>Ivan gig is humming at the limit at that point.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, depending on your encoder, depending on the device.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you can cram about four full bandwidth NDI sources

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<v Speaker 3>onto a gig connection. Probably don't want to do that,

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<v Speaker 3>but you can.

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<v Speaker 2>You can. Yeah, yeah, because network storms are still a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>We usually don't hit them because we have enough bandwidth

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<v Speaker 2>we don't think about it. But once you get upwards

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<v Speaker 2>at eighty percent or so and start getting collisions, it

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<v Speaker 2>gets way where it falls off a clip fast.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So, and is a spec that is created by a company, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and they give you the NDI tools that you can use, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Can you talk a little bit about that, yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure. So NDI was originally created by Newtech who created

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<v Speaker 3>the tricasters and going even back even further the Amiga

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<v Speaker 3>video toasters right, right, And how NDI evolved was they

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to find a way to bring in remote camera

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<v Speaker 3>sources or remote screen share sources as video sources over

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<v Speaker 3>a network. I think the original term for it was

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<v Speaker 3>ivgay and then it's kind of grown from there. Like

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<v Speaker 3>behind me, I've got a whole bunch of cameras. They're

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<v Speaker 3>all NDII cameras. There's the NDI tools, which is just

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<v Speaker 3>software tools that you can use to have a virtual

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<v Speaker 3>webcam to send out test patterns to preview your NDI

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<v Speaker 3>sources on your network. And then there's the actual hardware itself,

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<v Speaker 3>right like cameras, there's some audio gear that's coming out,

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<v Speaker 3>converters that will take an NDII signal and turn it

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<v Speaker 3>into SDI or HDMI many three and four letter acronyms

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<v Speaker 3>around this world. So the idea behind that is instead

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<v Speaker 3>of running physical copper cables, SDI or HDMI cables that

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<v Speaker 3>carry audio and video, and then you have another cable

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<v Speaker 3>for doing control and then maybe another cable for power.

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<v Speaker 3>If you've say, got an NDI camera and it's power

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<v Speaker 3>over Ethernet, I'm now sending audio, video, control, and power

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<v Speaker 3>over one cable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, and it's an Ethernet cable.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an Ethernet cable. So like if I destroy a

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<v Speaker 3>fifty foot Ethernet cable, okay, so what I go to

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<v Speaker 3>Amazon and buy a new one twenty bucks?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, if.

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<v Speaker 3>I destroy a fifty foot SDI cable, someone's getting in trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody's sad. Yeah, but I mean tricasting the day was

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<v Speaker 2>the device. The market's blown wide open now with atems

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<v Speaker 2>roads stuff and so forth. Although I think the real

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<v Speaker 2>thing that I noticed was one day everyone said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe it's okay to drop a frame now again, Like

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<v Speaker 2>SDI was so strict you needed those really good and

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<v Speaker 2>expensive cables and they never dropped a frame Like that

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<v Speaker 2>was the whole claim to fame, and HDMI was just

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere near that rigorous. And I remember when the first

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<v Speaker 2>ATM mini pros came along in the minis and you're like, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 2>occasionally we'll throw a frameway to maintain SINC and live

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00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.279
<v Speaker 2>with it. It's like, but we're going over the internet.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that reliable anyway, what do we care?

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<v Speaker 1>The TriCaster still is like the Mac daddy of all things, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's essentially a Windows PC.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a with a with a console on it.

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<v Speaker 1>With the TriCaster software yeah, with the console yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>all sorts of consoles that you can control it with.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's expensive. Yeah, you know, let's face it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a it's an amazing product. It's expensive. The

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<v Speaker 3>same compan so the company that made it, New Tech,

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<v Speaker 3>they eventually got acquired that's now vis RT. VISRT split

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<v Speaker 3>this NDI project off into its own entity. So NDI

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<v Speaker 3>exists as a company as well, and so you can

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<v Speaker 3>you as a developer, can go out and get the

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<v Speaker 3>basic SDK, integrate that into your application, and then you

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<v Speaker 3>can also get the Advanced SDK, which gives you a

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<v Speaker 3>lot lower level control over how the whole how your

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<v Speaker 3>NDI application behaved.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there's a lower cost alternative to the TriCaster that

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<v Speaker 1>I know you use and because we talked about it

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<v Speaker 1>before we started, and I use it as well that

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about. And that's v mix, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>vmix dot com. And here's what I know about VMX.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a WPF app written in vb net. Yes, how

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<v Speaker 1>cool is that? Yeah, it's it's super cool.

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<v Speaker 3>Like to be clear, they've got unmanaged stuff going on

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<v Speaker 3>as well, like obviously just to interact, but it is

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<v Speaker 3>written in vb net. It is super super cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and rock solid. Like these guys are in Australia

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<v Speaker 1>and you can have I don't know they have these

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<v Speaker 1>callers right, and you can buy it based on how

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<v Speaker 1>many input callers you can have remotely and the caller

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<v Speaker 1>API think that max is out at eight?

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<v Speaker 3>I think right, yeah, v mix call I think it's eight, yeah, v.

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<v Speaker 1>Mix Call and so you can give out these you know,

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<v Speaker 1>URLs to everybody who you want to call, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you have this dashboard where you can you know, select

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<v Speaker 1>the It's very much kind of it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>if you've used you know, what's the OBS, right, OBS studio,

376
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.440
<v Speaker 1>but on steroids. That's the way I look at it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's kind of like OBS went to college. Yeah, nice, Yeah,

378
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:24.319
<v Speaker 3>it's and like it's for us. We also use v

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<v Speaker 3>mix to do like when we're doing our hybrid shows,

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<v Speaker 3>like we'll have we'll have one single v mix rig

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<v Speaker 3>that's pushing out the local feed, like what's going to

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<v Speaker 3>the local projectors. We'll have one that's pushing out the

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<v Speaker 3>virtual feed to English listeners. We'll have one that's pushing

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<v Speaker 3>out to French listeners, and like all from one application,

385
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.160
<v Speaker 3>right yeah, And this was the sort of stuff that

386
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<v Speaker 3>you used to have to get you know, the big

387
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<v Speaker 3>broadcast consoles to do, right sure, And it's like a

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<v Speaker 3>fifty dollars license and you can do the same thing

389
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.240
<v Speaker 3>that you know, cost hundreds of thousands of dollars back

390
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:53.640
<v Speaker 3>in the day, and it works.

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<v Speaker 1>And as a developer, it's even cooler because they've exposed

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<v Speaker 1>an API that you can access just through a low URL.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you can write a c sharp app that

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<v Speaker 1>you know uses an HDP client with a local URL,

395
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<v Speaker 1>you form that URL with the commands and data that

396
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.119
<v Speaker 1>you want, and you can pretty much do everything that

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00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.880
<v Speaker 1>the app does programmatically from your own interface.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, about eighty percent of it, but yeah, it's pretty

399
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.000
<v Speaker 3>pretty close. We use it. We use it a fair

400
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<v Speaker 3>We use a fair amount.

401
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:26.440
<v Speaker 2>The trick, of course, is getting all the data into

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00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.599
<v Speaker 2>your machine. But if you're going all Ethernet, if it's

403
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>all POE and stuff, then you don't need a lot

404
00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:33.440
<v Speaker 2>of hardware on your machine to make this work. Yeah,

405
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.559
<v Speaker 2>avast of computer.

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<v Speaker 1>I've done multiple events with v mix and I've done

407
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<v Speaker 1>I did one from my home, and I did one

408
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.839
<v Speaker 1>down in Brooklyn at a at an event down there

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<v Speaker 1>that was just amazing. And that was the probably the

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<v Speaker 1>hardest event I ever had to do because there was

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<v Speaker 1>so many cues and so many buttons and so many

412
00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.200
<v Speaker 1>things to think about. It can get overwhelming. And I

413
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<v Speaker 1>think that's why if you get to that level, people

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<v Speaker 1>I know would move up to the TriCaster.

415
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:07.160
<v Speaker 3>Or you're loading your desk up with a whole whack

416
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.640
<v Speaker 3>of stream decks and using bit Focus Companion.

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00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:10.240
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

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<v Speaker 1>That's talk about that.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've got on my desk, I've got three stream

420
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 3>Deck XLS plus along with A plus and those are

421
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.160
<v Speaker 3>all being used to control you know, which presenter goes

422
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.359
<v Speaker 3>into which box on screen, which layout we've got, you know,

423
00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:28.880
<v Speaker 3>transitioning doing takes muting music on muting like it does

424
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:29.960
<v Speaker 3>our whole show automation.

425
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.279
<v Speaker 1>So stream Deck is a hardware device with a bunch

426
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.920
<v Speaker 1>of buttons on it that are actually you can load

427
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.039
<v Speaker 1>up with images so in text, so you customize it

428
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.640
<v Speaker 1>for what you want to do on your particular event

429
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:44.799
<v Speaker 1>or stream or whatever. And as Elia said, you just

430
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:46.039
<v Speaker 1>pushed the buttons at the right time.

431
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:47.799
<v Speaker 2>This is the Elgado hardware. I Gato.

432
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.920
<v Speaker 3>This is the Algato one, but you can pair it

433
00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:52.480
<v Speaker 3>with a piece of software called Companion. It's made by

434
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.640
<v Speaker 3>Bitfocus and it's like if you thought the Algato software

435
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.599
<v Speaker 3>was awesome. The bit Focused Companion also allows you to

436
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.960
<v Speaker 3>do stuff like I'm going to dynamically update the text

437
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.599
<v Speaker 3>on a bunch of my buttons depending on if I'm recording.

438
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Most common use case I have for that is if

439
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:12.960
<v Speaker 3>vmex is not recording, I've got a button that is

440
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:16.279
<v Speaker 3>blinking red at me, not recording, not recording, not recording MM.

441
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.279
<v Speaker 3>That has saved me more than on so many.

442
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Times, because, yeah, the companion also is basically just a

443
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>macro programmer. Whatever you want that button to do in

444
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>virtually any other app, it'll do it.

445
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

446
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

447
00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:30.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, the definition of a genius in the twenty

448
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.880
<v Speaker 1>twenties is, right, someone who can push the right button

449
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.640
<v Speaker 1>at the right time. Oh, yes, to think about it

450
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:36.759
<v Speaker 1>all comes down to that.

451
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:38.240
<v Speaker 3>It's doing your thinking ahead of time.

452
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

453
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:44.839
<v Speaker 1>So when we're talking about audio and video and programming

454
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>that with dot net, are you talking about NDI with

455
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.519
<v Speaker 1>C sharp? Is there an NDIAPI for c sharp?

456
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:58.279
<v Speaker 3>So originally there was just the CAPI for NDI, but

457
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.480
<v Speaker 3>with the magic in vogue again, if you get the

458
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.599
<v Speaker 3>signatures right, you can basically take your header, your cheader,

459
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 3>translate that into you know, your public extern, void calls

460
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 3>or public extern whatever your struck name is right, and

461
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.880
<v Speaker 3>call into that c API. And as long as you

462
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.240
<v Speaker 3>do everything, as long as you decorate everything correctly, it

463
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.400
<v Speaker 3>all just works. And a lot of times even if

464
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 3>you don't, the marshaler will be there to kind of

465
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.319
<v Speaker 3>save your bake and do things correctly for you. Strings

466
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.599
<v Speaker 3>especially is where things get really weird.

467
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.400
<v Speaker 1>So you know a questions coming next, Yes, have you

468
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 1>ALISP created a dot Net rapper for the NDI API.

469
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.640
<v Speaker 3>So I created a dot Net rapper for the Advanced SDK,

470
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.559
<v Speaker 3>and I improved on the rapper that NDI themselves had

471
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 3>originally released to make that portable too. They originally released

472
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:49.640
<v Speaker 3>it for just the dot net framework, and I ported

473
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:51.720
<v Speaker 3>that to dot net at the time dot net core

474
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:54.319
<v Speaker 3>and now just dot Net seven plus. Yeah.

475
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Wow cool.

476
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.559
<v Speaker 3>But here's the magic of that rapper though, And this

477
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.599
<v Speaker 3>is where p and voke really starts get powerful in

478
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.680
<v Speaker 3>the modern era of dot net, because when you think

479
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.720
<v Speaker 3>about it, dot Net originally was Windows only, right, And then,

480
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 3>you know, Richard, I would be remiss if I didn't

481
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:12.640
<v Speaker 3>mention that the only reason that we have the portable

482
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.400
<v Speaker 3>CLR today, and we have a lot of what we

483
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.319
<v Speaker 3>have today is because of all the effort they made

484
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.440
<v Speaker 3>to make dot Net run in SQL server, right, right,

485
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.440
<v Speaker 3>there was that huge effort. What was that like two

486
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:24.119
<v Speaker 3>thousand and five?

487
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well delivered in two thousand and five, but

488
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 2>it had been working on since two thousand and three

489
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Net two.

490
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.119
<v Speaker 3>Right, that was dot Net two O and all the

491
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.799
<v Speaker 3>magic that we got during dot Net two O. So

492
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.079
<v Speaker 3>that work. So now that we have this cross platform

493
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:41.160
<v Speaker 3>dot Net library, you think about we have all of

494
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.480
<v Speaker 3>these native libraries across all these different platforms. NDI itself

495
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.279
<v Speaker 3>it has an SDK available for Windows, for Mac, for Linux,

496
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.319
<v Speaker 3>and then on top of that, for Linux we have

497
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.039
<v Speaker 3>X eighty six sixty four and we have ARMS sixty four,

498
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 3>and then on Mac we also have eighty six to

499
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.000
<v Speaker 3>sixty four and ARM sixty four as well. Dot Net

500
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.039
<v Speaker 3>also targets.

501
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.480
<v Speaker 1>All those platforms, right, That's right.

502
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.240
<v Speaker 3>So I can take my dot Net app, I can

503
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.759
<v Speaker 3>compile it on all these platforms and it's going to

504
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.799
<v Speaker 3>run and not just that, but it's going to run

505
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:16.119
<v Speaker 3>more or less the same way across all the platforms

506
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.440
<v Speaker 3>because the same source code.

507
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.200
<v Speaker 2>I think you just made your argument for why I'm

508
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.359
<v Speaker 2>writing this is cea Sharp and said at C plus plus.

509
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, so philosophically, I was thinking about this before we

510
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.759
<v Speaker 3>got on. I was like, Okay, well, why are we

511
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.519
<v Speaker 3>if we're going to be calling into native libraries anyway,

512
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 3>why are we even thinking about C sharp? Why is

513
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 3>that even entering our thought process. When you think about it,

514
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:40.119
<v Speaker 3>there's only a small percentage of the operations that I'm

515
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:43.759
<v Speaker 3>doing that I really really need that low level raw speed.

516
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.920
<v Speaker 3>And I would even argue that whatever the dot net

517
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:51.759
<v Speaker 3>compiler does in the background, especially for talking about ahead

518
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:56.200
<v Speaker 3>of time compilation, is probably going to write faster, more optimized,

519
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 3>and better code than you can by hand, unless you're

520
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.240
<v Speaker 3>really talking about assembly. In that case, that's a whole

521
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:02.440
<v Speaker 3>other special world.

522
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Who's going to do that?

523
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Then you got chromium twit tweezers out and you're stacking

524
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.799
<v Speaker 2>your own electrons and that's it.

525
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.559
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, exactly that. I mean you start a button. Yeah,

526
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.319
<v Speaker 3>yeah exactly, So like you can you can go do

527
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 3>so we could write the whole application and say CE

528
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.359
<v Speaker 3>or C plus plus. But it's like I don't need

529
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.200
<v Speaker 3>that low level control all the time.

530
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 2>And you don't want to pay the price of using

531
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.759
<v Speaker 2>that low level language all the time.

532
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and there's a big price involved. Yeah, you know,

533
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't get automatic garbage collection. I don't get you know,

534
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.079
<v Speaker 3>I have to think about reference counting. I have to

535
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.519
<v Speaker 3>think about okay this because like, yes, there's type checking,

536
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:40.480
<v Speaker 3>but there is nothing stopping me from casting one pointer

537
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 3>type to another in de referencing garbage.

538
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Sure, you know. At the same time, it's like, does

539
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>a GC bonk here client? Like, I haven't thought about

540
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.559
<v Speaker 2>a bonked client by our garbage collection in a decade, easy, right,

541
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Like because things have been so fast and it just

542
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:59.799
<v Speaker 2>stopped being an issue, like noticing the garbage that the

543
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 2>guar coelector was running is a two thousand and five thing,

544
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>not a twenty twenty five thing.

545
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:05.960
<v Speaker 3>Sure, and there's ways to mitigate that too, if you're

546
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:08.640
<v Speaker 3>smart about memory management, right, you know you don't You

547
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:10.960
<v Speaker 3>don't have to worry so much about that these days.

548
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rule number one have more memory.

549
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So I was thinking about this. You know, Let's

550
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.599
<v Speaker 1>say we have written our p and voke stuff for

551
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Windows and we want to run it on the Mac.

552
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 1>If you're doing a what is it, you know, a

553
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:32.599
<v Speaker 1>MAUI app that can run on the Mac. Right, Those

554
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:40.079
<v Speaker 1>P and voke C sharp extern method declarations from what

555
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 1>I remember, include the name of the library that you

556
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:47.599
<v Speaker 1>need to call into, like by name Windows there dot DLL.

557
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.119
<v Speaker 1>But what are they on the Mac? Do you have

558
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.160
<v Speaker 1>to change those on each platform?

559
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:57.400
<v Speaker 3>So if the marsh the p and VOKE libraries. They

560
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:03.279
<v Speaker 3>provide a mechanism that instructions dot net how to look

561
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 3>up that DLL or how to look out that dynamic library.

562
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.720
<v Speaker 3>So on Windows, Mac and Linux, you can just generically

563
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.240
<v Speaker 3>say we're dealing with that dynamic link library. The file

564
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.200
<v Speaker 3>name is different, but the concept is the same. This

565
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.119
<v Speaker 3>is a library. It contains some sort of unmanaged code,

566
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:21.400
<v Speaker 3>and I want to call into it.

567
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:24.319
<v Speaker 1>Great, So you don't you have one codebase and it

568
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:28.000
<v Speaker 1>literally goes from platform to platform without modification. You don't

569
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 1>have any pragmant statements for the platform that you're on.

570
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:32.960
<v Speaker 3>See that's and that's the other thing is like if

571
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.680
<v Speaker 3>you think, I think about doing the code portability stuff

572
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:38.960
<v Speaker 3>back in the WPF silver Light days. So like back

573
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.559
<v Speaker 3>when I was in university, one of my one of

574
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.200
<v Speaker 3>my co op placements was to write was with a

575
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 3>broadcaster and I had to write a timeline control for

576
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.599
<v Speaker 3>a non linear editor like you would see in Adobe

577
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.319
<v Speaker 3>Premiere or after Effects or something like that. Right, But

578
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 3>the use case was this needed to be cross platform

579
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.160
<v Speaker 3>for both WPF and silver Light and had to be

580
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:01.039
<v Speaker 3>the same code base.

581
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.319
<v Speaker 2>And so to make the portable class libraries at the time.

582
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:09.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this was Yeah, that was PCL, right, so which

583
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:13.240
<v Speaker 3>they moved away from, right, like, oh yeahcls have been retired. Yeah, PCL.

584
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.079
<v Speaker 3>Because we did PCL, that gave us a baby step

585
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 3>to dot nets standard once we kind of split, and

586
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.680
<v Speaker 3>then dot net Standard was kind of the way for

587
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.599
<v Speaker 3>a little while and then we realized, okay, let's just

588
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.599
<v Speaker 3>open source dot net and we're going to go, and

589
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 3>that's good his future.

590
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, and because the PCL approachment that every time you

591
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.839
<v Speaker 2>added a platform and it added complexy to everyone else,

592
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:32.559
<v Speaker 2>like it was an N over N minus one problem

593
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and it just got bad. Yeah as the count went up.

594
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's and you also ran into hey, this

595
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 3>is supported on this platform. So you still needed to

596
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.400
<v Speaker 3>do some checks, right, Yeah, And to a degree, you

597
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:45.640
<v Speaker 3>still need to do certain checks depending on what you're

598
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.480
<v Speaker 3>doing and how you're using p and voke and whatnot,

599
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:50.400
<v Speaker 3>Like there are certain educating conditions that do matter that

600
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.799
<v Speaker 3>you need to check. But back in those days when

601
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:55.640
<v Speaker 3>I was doing WPF and silver Light, I was doing

602
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.160
<v Speaker 3>a lot of if deaf and then checking for certain

603
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.680
<v Speaker 3>compiler flags right right when I'm doing my you know,

604
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:04.000
<v Speaker 3>where should I find the NDI library. What's it called

605
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:08.559
<v Speaker 3>on this platform? That is a native if statement in

606
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.799
<v Speaker 3>c sharp. Nice, So that is compiled into each version

607
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.079
<v Speaker 3>and that check is being done at runtime.

608
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, which he also gives you room for

609
00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:19.839
<v Speaker 2>new versions and new configurations. It should just work.

610
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, all right, this is a good time. We're

611
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.279
<v Speaker 1>going to take a break, I guess and about halfway

612
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.279
<v Speaker 1>through the show stick around after these very important messages,

613
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:32.759
<v Speaker 1>we'll be right back with more from Elias Purinin. You know,

614
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>dot net six has officially reached the end of support,

615
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.960
<v Speaker 1>and now is the time to upgrade. Dot Net eight

616
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 1>is well supported on AWS. Learn more at aws dot

617
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Amazon dot com, slash dot net. And we're back. It's

618
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.079
<v Speaker 1>dot net Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin, that's Richard Campbell, hey,

619
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and that's Elias Purinin. We're talking p and voke and

620
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:59.039
<v Speaker 1>audio and video stuff that you can do in dot

621
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:03.799
<v Speaker 1>net and c sharp. Now you've written a rapper for NDI,

622
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:08.279
<v Speaker 1>but you've also written rappers for other native you know,

623
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 1>libraries and things. What's what's another cool one you want

624
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:12.759
<v Speaker 1>to talk about?

625
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.839
<v Speaker 3>So for my NDI multiview, which kind of which is

626
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.880
<v Speaker 3>where all this p and voke. Goodness came from for

627
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.319
<v Speaker 3>me and where I saw the light of pnvoke and

628
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.920
<v Speaker 3>dot net in general. I as part of that, I

629
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.119
<v Speaker 3>needed to write against the NDI Advanced SDK because I

630
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:33.680
<v Speaker 3>wanted to be able to send out multiview outputs in

631
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 3>a technology called NDI HX. So NDI has two major flavors.

632
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.400
<v Speaker 3>There's HX, which is compressed either H two sixty four

633
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:46.119
<v Speaker 3>H two sixty five or the full bandwidth version, which

634
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.680
<v Speaker 3>is used as something called speed HQ.

635
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:54.279
<v Speaker 2>Because I want to make my Ethernet cables glow yes white.

636
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 1>Speed HQ maybe a misnomer, let's see.

637
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of data in this stuff HQ.

638
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 3>They're big frames, but yet still compressed. So that's that's

639
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.599
<v Speaker 3>the thing. One thing a lossless compression, A lossless compression exactly.

640
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, where two sixty four five are both loss e compressions.

641
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So one of the but one of the reasons

642
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 3>I want to do the HX output is because there's

643
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:27.839
<v Speaker 3>two decode H two sixty four two sixty five. Pretty

644
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.119
<v Speaker 3>much anything on the planet can do that real time now,

645
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.839
<v Speaker 3>and there's a lot of devices coming out now that

646
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 3>if they do NDID code they only do HX, so

647
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.920
<v Speaker 3>for so for me, I wanted to be able to

648
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.880
<v Speaker 3>send out an NDI feed as HX so that we

649
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.279
<v Speaker 3>could send it to those devices. Opens up a couple

650
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.559
<v Speaker 3>other categories two and so I went and took a look,

651
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 3>and there's there were a bunch of N Video. There

652
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.240
<v Speaker 3>were some nvideo wrappers out there already for c SHARP

653
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 3>because what every if you've got an N video graphics card,

654
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.240
<v Speaker 3>you have access to something called the end video encoder

655
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 3>or en VANC. And so this is the hardware on

656
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.320
<v Speaker 3>your card based H two sixty four, H two sixty

657
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 3>five and depending on new your card is av one.

658
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Isn't this Kuda under the hood.

659
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.199
<v Speaker 3>So it can use Kuda under the hood. There's also

660
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.480
<v Speaker 3>ways to access it via DirectX and with OpenGL context

661
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 3>I believe, which gives you a little bit of more platform.

662
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.320
<v Speaker 2>See look at this using video cards for video not AI.

663
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited.

664
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.360
<v Speaker 3>It's a cool X it's your foot, isn't it cool?

665
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:35.679
<v Speaker 3>We can actually use GPUs for video again, Yeah, what

666
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.679
<v Speaker 3>a concept. It's amazing. To give you an idea of

667
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:40.840
<v Speaker 3>how fast it encodes though, I can put a ten

668
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 3>EIGHTP sixty or I can put a ten ADP nineteen

669
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.519
<v Speaker 3>twenty by ten eighty video frame into endvanc and get

670
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.199
<v Speaker 3>an encoded frame out in about two to three milliseconds.

671
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Jayvers Miles and marsh Miles. And you're not talking

672
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:58.280
<v Speaker 2>at fifty ninety here, you're talking about like a ten eighty.

673
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a ten eighty. Like you know, I've got a

674
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 3>machine here that's got like a forty sixty, forty seventy.

675
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 3>It is like two three milliseconds. It's nothing, it's nothing.

676
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now you'll be able to keep up. You could

677
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.760
<v Speaker 2>do a bunch of those, like, yeah, sixty frames per second?

678
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:14.400
<v Speaker 2>How many can you do? Five off that card real time?

679
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 3>So again depends on the card. That card I think

680
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:20.639
<v Speaker 3>is just hardware is limited by the drivers to five.

681
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.360
<v Speaker 3>But like if you go with the RTXA four thousands

682
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.159
<v Speaker 3>or like the really professional grade.

683
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Cards, which is what they're bill for. Yeah, the work

684
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:33.679
<v Speaker 2>those workstation class ones are designed for multiple parallel threads,

685
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 2>which is not great for gaming, but for this application,

686
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 2>that's brilliant.

687
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 3>Oh, they are absolutely beefy cards. They're super cool.

688
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

689
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Anybody who knows what I do knows that I create

690
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.760
<v Speaker 1>videos and things, and I'm a big fan of Adobe Premiere.

691
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:51.119
<v Speaker 1>But I remember in the days when Adobe Premiere Pro

692
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:56.239
<v Speaker 1>didn't have access to the GPU for rendering, and it

693
00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.719
<v Speaker 1>was just using the CPU and it was slow, and

694
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>it's like, oh yeah, you got to go turn on

695
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.599
<v Speaker 1>this thing. And then it was it was faster, it

696
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.519
<v Speaker 1>was much faster. Now now I can take an our

697
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:12.559
<v Speaker 1>video and render it on my I nine, you know,

698
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.320
<v Speaker 1>with my Nvidia card in maybe five minutes.

699
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

700
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's that's that's really cool. That's that's the beauty

701
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:21.159
<v Speaker 3>of the modern GPU.

702
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

703
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:24.599
<v Speaker 3>So, and because I've got access to that, you know,

704
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.199
<v Speaker 3>I've got access to those two GPU n code and decode.

705
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Like all of a sudden, I can sort of get

706
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.199
<v Speaker 3>around licensing around h two sixty four and two sixty

707
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 3>five because that's a whole weird legal beast that I'm

708
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:35.800
<v Speaker 3>not even going to touch.

709
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 1>So you created wrap around the end Video encoery encoder,

710
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 1>so INVEC.

711
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:44.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So ENVEC gives you if you go on end

712
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.679
<v Speaker 3>video site, you can download the CSDK for ENDVEC and

713
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:48.760
<v Speaker 3>I call it end bank.

714
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but I think you're right.

715
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's that's how I'll refer to it. I'm used

716
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 3>to that one. So you download that, you get a

717
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.679
<v Speaker 3>c API. But what's interesting in the if you look

718
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 3>at the and we've provided links. I've provided a bunch

719
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:05.559
<v Speaker 3>of show links for this. You can find it if

720
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 3>you look uptractice dot encoders on GitHub.

721
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:10.239
<v Speaker 1>We'll put them on the main page too.

722
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.119
<v Speaker 3>I have yeah, so we'll be on the main page.

723
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Two.

724
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.599
<v Speaker 3>So if you look up, if you look up that library,

725
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.360
<v Speaker 3>you'll notice that I actually only have one direct P

726
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:21.559
<v Speaker 3>and voke function call into envank, and that is to

727
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:25.559
<v Speaker 3>initialize the library and get back astruct. Now what does

728
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:30.480
<v Speaker 3>that struct contain. It contains a bunch of unmanaged function

729
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:34.440
<v Speaker 3>pointers to whatever version of the API I'm referencing, so

730
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:38.239
<v Speaker 3>for backwards and forwards compatibility, like if i'm I can

731
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:41.679
<v Speaker 3>say I'm on version twelve, I've compiled against version twelve

732
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 3>of the nvank SDK, So that gives me access to

733
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.119
<v Speaker 3>anybody that's running n Video Drivers five twenty and above,

734
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.480
<v Speaker 3>which is striking a nice balance between supporting some legacy

735
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:55.800
<v Speaker 3>stuff like that goes back I think to about twenty nineteen,

736
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.960
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty, but not being so new that like you

737
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.119
<v Speaker 3>need a fifty ninety and all the latest drivers to

738
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:01.719
<v Speaker 3>run it right.

739
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and well, let's face it, the fifty ninety is

740
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.840
<v Speaker 2>crazy overcow for virtually everything pretty much. Yeah, except we're

741
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 2>just just taking money off you. You know, I'm realizing

742
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:15.880
<v Speaker 2>there's Envy Inc and Envy Deck, so I can't I

743
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.920
<v Speaker 2>don't think he can say n bank because you can't

744
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:19.960
<v Speaker 2>say env deck. Ah.

745
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:22.400
<v Speaker 1>True, that would be the decoder version.

746
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's an encoder and a decoder. This is legit,

747
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:28.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, we get this. Yeah, so I think if

748
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go for a naming consisting, it's going

749
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:33.719
<v Speaker 2>to be Envy inc, an Envy Deck, envanc en v deck.

750
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.679
<v Speaker 2>I like that. They're still awkward, just bank deck like

751
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.519
<v Speaker 2>modem because n bank is easier to say no toys

752
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>about them. But there's nothing nothing you do about the decoder.

753
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:43.480
<v Speaker 2>It's glunky.

754
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, at least it's not WPF.

755
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:46.920
<v Speaker 2>They'll save me.

756
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Who was who was it that was ranting about that

757
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:54.840
<v Speaker 3>way back in the day we can't have actros w No,

758
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:55.880
<v Speaker 3>it was it.

759
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Was Brad Abrams who said, listen, if we give the

760
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.679
<v Speaker 2>project a good code name, it gets a tear product name. Yeah.

761
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:04.840
<v Speaker 2>So that's why the code name for silver Light was

762
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>WPF slash E because that's the worst code name ever.

763
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.159
<v Speaker 2>So the product name was awesome.

764
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.480
<v Speaker 1>I was just waiting for Windows Transaction Framework, which would

765
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 1>be WTF.

766
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.519
<v Speaker 2>He said, where did my data go?

767
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.800
<v Speaker 3>So, but getting back to the getting back to the

768
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.920
<v Speaker 3>n bank wrapper library. So there's only one direct p

769
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:29.440
<v Speaker 3>in voke function call in, and that gives you a

770
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.440
<v Speaker 3>struck back and that struct has nothing but function pointers, right,

771
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 3>and that's how you actually interact with the API. That's

772
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.159
<v Speaker 3>how they're maintaining that backwards compatibility. So even if I'm

773
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:39.559
<v Speaker 3>running the.

774
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>This is really not that horrible, right. Once you've got connected,

775
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 2>it's really smart. Then you're just feeding it data. It's

776
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 2>just just dream.

777
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.760
<v Speaker 3>And then throughout that library, I then have a bunch

778
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.039
<v Speaker 3>of Marshal delegate to function pointer. I forget the exact

779
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.480
<v Speaker 3>get delegate for function pointer calls, so it's Marshal dot

780
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.639
<v Speaker 3>debt get delegate for function pointer. I pass it in

781
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.559
<v Speaker 3>the end pointer, you know, native end pointer for each

782
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:09.320
<v Speaker 3>of those function each of those function pointers. And I

783
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:13.519
<v Speaker 3>now have a first class c sharp delegate that I

784
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:17.320
<v Speaker 3>can call. Great, so now I can take my whatever

785
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.119
<v Speaker 3>memory I've got allocated, that's got my raw video frame.

786
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.679
<v Speaker 3>I can now say, okay, here's a point of that

787
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.559
<v Speaker 3>memory end bank. Here you go, give me a frame back,

788
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:27.840
<v Speaker 3>and it all just works. And I'm doing all of

789
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:29.639
<v Speaker 3>these calls in c sharp.

790
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.519
<v Speaker 1>And if it changes, you don't care because maybe the

791
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 1>memory changes, maybe the pointer changes, but that's.

792
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.199
<v Speaker 3>Fine, exactly. So I'm I'm shielded from all that stuff.

793
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:40.639
<v Speaker 3>I get the advantages of native, of the speed of

794
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.559
<v Speaker 3>the native code, but I'm also able to and i

795
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.199
<v Speaker 3>can access all these native libraries. But I've also got

796
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.519
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the protections that c sharp gives me

797
00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:49.440
<v Speaker 3>out of the box.

798
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Yep, You've got another layer of abstraction there, which is

799
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:53.760
<v Speaker 1>always a good.

800
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:55.840
<v Speaker 3>Thing, exactly. And as long as I've got all of

801
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:57.960
<v Speaker 3>my strucks set up the right way, and I've got

802
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, and I've been very careful about how I've

803
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:04.280
<v Speaker 3>instructed dot net about how these structs are laid out,

804
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.199
<v Speaker 3>everything just works. That's a big.

805
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Asterisk, though, I jw technology.

806
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:11.360
<v Speaker 3>It just works. Technology it works works.

807
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's the asterisk?

808
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.440
<v Speaker 3>So in some cases you do have to be very

809
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:21.400
<v Speaker 3>specific about what the unmanaged code is expecting in terms

810
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.599
<v Speaker 3>of how is this struct laid out? How should this

811
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:28.840
<v Speaker 3>If I'm p invoking how should this function be called?

812
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:34.480
<v Speaker 3>Because there's the there's standard call. In the unmanaged world,

813
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:36.159
<v Speaker 3>we have standard call, which is the way that we

814
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:40.320
<v Speaker 3>usually call into like a WIN thirty two API for example,

815
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:44.679
<v Speaker 3>and standard call one of the versions it's the caller

816
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 3>is responsible for cleaning up the stack once the function returns,

817
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.480
<v Speaker 3>and in the other way, the call e is responsible

818
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:52.760
<v Speaker 3>for cleaning up the stack. It's the collie that's responsible

819
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.760
<v Speaker 3>for cleaning up the stack in a standard call call,

820
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:00.840
<v Speaker 3>whereas with a with a C decal call, the caller

821
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.559
<v Speaker 3>is responsible for cleaning up the stack. Which is why

822
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.239
<v Speaker 3>and C you're able to do like a print aff

823
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.880
<v Speaker 3>with your string, your format string, and then you can

824
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:12.039
<v Speaker 3>put as many parameters after that as you want because

825
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.360
<v Speaker 3>it's an also for the standard call. That's why if

826
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:17.880
<v Speaker 3>you ever crack open you know, a C plus plus

827
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.360
<v Speaker 3>library in a tool like GEDRA, reverse engineering tool like GEDRA,

828
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:24.639
<v Speaker 3>you'll see these really awful mangled names like you know,

829
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:29.559
<v Speaker 3>get function pointer at three and that at three tells

830
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:33.920
<v Speaker 3>you this version this overload is expecting three parameters, no more,

831
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.599
<v Speaker 3>no less, okay, and if you call it with more

832
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:38.440
<v Speaker 3>things could happen.

833
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Self documenting sort kind of sort of sort of you

834
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know what they are, but that's why you have

835
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:49.519
<v Speaker 1>to see sure, you.

836
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.719
<v Speaker 3>Know, you could just you know, like anything else, like

837
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:53.719
<v Speaker 3>sometimes you just got to poke the function calls and

838
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.800
<v Speaker 3>see what happens. Just like let's call it with five.

839
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 3>Let's see if it works.

840
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Now, you had a specific need to create this wrapper,

841
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:03.960
<v Speaker 1>but what might other people need to use it for?

842
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.719
<v Speaker 3>So for Endvank, it's part of my philosophy of creating

843
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:10.400
<v Speaker 3>some of these rappers was like was to was to

844
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:12.760
<v Speaker 3>show that, look, if you want to get this high

845
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:15.920
<v Speaker 3>performance real time audio and video, you can totally use

846
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.320
<v Speaker 3>a higher level language like c sharp because when you

847
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.280
<v Speaker 3>need to drop down and get that crazy speed, you can.

848
00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:25.000
<v Speaker 3>M h. So let's talk about crazy speed. Let's talk

849
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.280
<v Speaker 3>about unsafe code, and let's talk pointers.

850
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so love unsafe code reminds me of my teenage

851
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.280
<v Speaker 1>days driving a car at one hundred miles an hour

852
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:40.000
<v Speaker 1>through the town. Chickens flying everywhere, mothers pulling their children

853
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:40.639
<v Speaker 1>off the street.

854
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:46.920
<v Speaker 3>Go ahead, that sounds like an interesting hobby. I just tried.

855
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:50.039
<v Speaker 1>I had to pick up the feathers afterwards, though, I had.

856
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh man MESSI my biggest adventure of driving a car

857
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:54.519
<v Speaker 3>was knocking over construction fences.

858
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.119
<v Speaker 1>There you go, all right, well that could be unsafe.

859
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So if you compile your C sharp code with

860
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:02.719
<v Speaker 3>you know this, with slash unsafe for you marketing your

861
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:05.599
<v Speaker 3>project file that you want unsafe code, then you can

862
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.679
<v Speaker 3>use what's called Then you can use the unsafe keyword.

863
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Now what does unsafe do? This allows you to do

864
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:15.039
<v Speaker 3>stuff like pin objects in memory and get raw function

865
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:20.719
<v Speaker 3>point and get raw pointers. So you would think, okay,

866
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:23.880
<v Speaker 3>So a common misconception is that C sharp doesn't have pointers.

867
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:27.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh yes it does. Let me tell you about them.

868
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.360
<v Speaker 3>So there is if you're working in an unsafe context,

869
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:34.239
<v Speaker 3>there is nothing stopping you from calling Marshall dot alec

870
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 3>h Global and saying I want a big chunk of

871
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.239
<v Speaker 3>memory and it'll go cool. Here's a pointer that memory.

872
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 3>You can then cast that to whatever struck type you

873
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:51.000
<v Speaker 3>want and bam, all of a sudden, I have pointer

874
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.519
<v Speaker 3>de referencing arrows in my C sharp code.

875
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:56.559
<v Speaker 1>But you said the magic word though, which is pinning. Yeah,

876
00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:59.599
<v Speaker 1>if you don't pin it, it could move around on

877
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.360
<v Speaker 1>you and you go to access it and you're writing

878
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.159
<v Speaker 1>over something and security.

879
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:05.039
<v Speaker 2>We have a.

880
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Problem over here.

881
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Bad things happen.

882
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, you could. You could get into big problems

883
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 3>real fast.

884
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:13.320
<v Speaker 1>So but pinning is the key. It basically says, don't

885
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.559
<v Speaker 1>move from this spot right here.

886
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

887
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Now, from my experience, I when I've been working in

888
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.039
<v Speaker 3>modern dot net, I found that I've had to do

889
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.599
<v Speaker 3>pinning a lot less than I used to. Yeah, Like,

890
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:27.519
<v Speaker 3>it seems like there's been a lot of work going

891
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:29.960
<v Speaker 3>behind the scenes. And it feels like that is because

892
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.119
<v Speaker 3>of dot net running on mobile platforms and running on

893
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:37.800
<v Speaker 3>mac os. Like that work seems to have you know,

894
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.599
<v Speaker 3>the native interrupt story is way different from like the

895
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:44.639
<v Speaker 3>dot net one one two oh days. But you can,

896
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:46.639
<v Speaker 3>but you can totally allocate just a block of memory,

897
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.159
<v Speaker 3>and I actually do this, like for my advanced SDK

898
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.119
<v Speaker 3>rapper and for some of the encoding that we're doing

899
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.760
<v Speaker 3>behind the scenes. What NDI expects when I send a

900
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:59.039
<v Speaker 3>compressed frame is that it wants in memory physically laid out.

901
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:04.000
<v Speaker 3>It wants the struct header that contains information about resolution,

902
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:08.119
<v Speaker 3>frame rate, data length, and then after that in memory

903
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:11.000
<v Speaker 3>should follow the h two sixty four bitstream. So the

904
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:14.480
<v Speaker 3>actual stuff that comes out of the encoder, right, that's

905
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.679
<v Speaker 3>a little bit hard to do in see you can

906
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:18.920
<v Speaker 3>do that. You could just allocate a bunch of memory

907
00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:23.159
<v Speaker 3>for whatever memory you want for your frame size, plus

908
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, say forty four bites for your for the

909
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:29.840
<v Speaker 3>struct header, and you new memcopy in C it's a

910
00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:31.840
<v Speaker 3>in C sharp, it's a little bit more difficult to

911
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:33.880
<v Speaker 3>do that, but you can still do that because you

912
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:37.159
<v Speaker 3>can allocate memory marshall allocate global that's equivalent to your

913
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:41.079
<v Speaker 3>to your mallek and sea land. You can then cast that.

914
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:44.480
<v Speaker 3>You then cast that to a pointer to whatever struct

915
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:48.719
<v Speaker 3>type you're dealing with, and in your struct declaration you

916
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:53.800
<v Speaker 3>can add attributes that say hey, this struct layout is sequential,

917
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:57.320
<v Speaker 3>so don't move stuff. So dot net compiler, don't try

918
00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:01.559
<v Speaker 3>to get clever with moving my different fields around to

919
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:05.159
<v Speaker 3>do memory alignment or you know, save space or do

920
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:08.079
<v Speaker 3>anything clever. Just like how I've laid this out, Like

921
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:10.480
<v Speaker 3>if I if my first field is an ind to,

922
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.480
<v Speaker 3>my second field is a long, and my third field

923
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.320
<v Speaker 3>is a short, like I want it laid out exactly

924
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:15.840
<v Speaker 3>like that in.

925
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Memory Yeah, sequentially exact.

926
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

927
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.599
<v Speaker 1>So if you do that, you have your own safe code,

928
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:26.960
<v Speaker 1>your global maloc and you pin it is it really unsafe?

929
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.360
<v Speaker 3>So you can still dereference, you know, something outside of

930
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:33.000
<v Speaker 3>the bounds of the memory that you've allocated. So in

931
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:35.599
<v Speaker 3>terms of unsafe, it's kind of like saying, you know what,

932
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:38.559
<v Speaker 3>if you want to dip into doing you know, memory

933
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.280
<v Speaker 3>management and pointers and all that stuff yourself, you can

934
00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:45.800
<v Speaker 3>totally do that. It's your foot, It's exactly c Sharp's

935
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.039
<v Speaker 3>like a big Swiss army knife, right, It's got all

936
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:50.639
<v Speaker 3>these different tools and abilities, and then you pull out

937
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.079
<v Speaker 3>the final one and it's a big friggin' you know,

938
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:55.559
<v Speaker 3>precision rifle, perfect for your foot.

939
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

940
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.679
<v Speaker 1>It's got everything, so it's not gonna it's not going

941
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:02.920
<v Speaker 1>to move on you, which is one of the problems

942
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.880
<v Speaker 1>and one of the reasons we have managed you know,

943
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:09.519
<v Speaker 1>frameworks in the first place, like that net. But you

944
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:14.920
<v Speaker 1>can still overcopy, under copy, like you said, de reference

945
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to the wrong thing. You can still do all those

946
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 1>stupid things, and the compiler is probably not going to

947
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:21.920
<v Speaker 1>help you all that much.

948
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.920
<v Speaker 3>But it also depends to how you're interacting with that

949
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:28.880
<v Speaker 3>data that you are or those or the pieces of

950
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.519
<v Speaker 3>memory that you're working without a low level because you

951
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.880
<v Speaker 3>can also take a byte pointer or a void pointer

952
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.599
<v Speaker 3>whatever you want, like say I've allocated a big chunk

953
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:40.960
<v Speaker 3>of memory, and I want to pass that chunk of

954
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:45.679
<v Speaker 3>memory to a managed function that expects a spam like

955
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:49.159
<v Speaker 3>a SPAN of byte I can create. I can instantiate

956
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.440
<v Speaker 3>a SPAN byte, pass in that pointer to memory and say, hey,

957
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.400
<v Speaker 3>this is you know, two thousand and forty eight four thousand,

958
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:58.800
<v Speaker 3>ninety six bytes long. I now have a SPAN rapper,

959
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:02.679
<v Speaker 3>like a first SPAN wrapper around this chunk of memory

960
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:05.079
<v Speaker 3>that is quote unquote unsafe, and I can do all

961
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 3>of my dot net goodie things to it.

962
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Right.

963
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Yes, SPAN is a wonderful, wonderful construct.

964
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.159
<v Speaker 3>And like I use that, for example to as part

965
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.880
<v Speaker 3>of encoding that ndiachex frame. I need to tell NDI

966
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:21.880
<v Speaker 3>here's how long the actual frame data is and all

967
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:24.320
<v Speaker 3>of the ancillary data, so like when this frame should

968
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:27.800
<v Speaker 3>be presented, that's how long this is. I have a

969
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.719
<v Speaker 3>parser at h two sixty four bitstream parser that is

970
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 3>written in C sharp. It's all managed code that uses

971
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:38.760
<v Speaker 3>SPAN to go through and see, oh, here's where this

972
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 3>part starts, here's where this part ends, here's what needs

973
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.679
<v Speaker 3>to be copied. So I'm doing all of that checking

974
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:45.360
<v Speaker 3>and it's I've got all the type safety and I've

975
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:48.280
<v Speaker 3>got all the bounds checking right, Yeah, so I'm not concerned.

976
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:51.440
<v Speaker 3>So I'm not as concerned about you know, overrunning underrunning,

977
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 3>like as long as I'm as long as I'm instantiating

978
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:56.840
<v Speaker 3>with SPAN correctly. I've got all the type safety of

979
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:57.639
<v Speaker 3>C sharp.

980
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:00.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's SPAN. We've talked about that that span before,

981
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:05.599
<v Speaker 1>about span, and just remind us what it is from

982
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:09.679
<v Speaker 1>what I remember, it's sort of like a fixed position

983
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:13.360
<v Speaker 1>array of stuff that isn't going to move around under you, right.

984
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:16.119
<v Speaker 3>And it wraps it without doing memory copies.

985
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

986
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:19.119
<v Speaker 3>So and then if you want, say you want to

987
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:21.079
<v Speaker 3>get you know, you've got a SPAN that's two that

988
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:24.639
<v Speaker 3>wraps a two megabyte bite array or a two megabyte

989
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:28.679
<v Speaker 3>bite pointer, and you want to get the data at

990
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.280
<v Speaker 3>offset five hundred and twelve K to oneenty twenty four K.

991
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:34.760
<v Speaker 3>But you don't want to copy that. You just want

992
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.800
<v Speaker 3>a you just want a slice of a slice of

993
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.559
<v Speaker 3>that to view it basically or to do something else

994
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:41.920
<v Speaker 3>with it, but you don't want to make a copy

995
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:44.800
<v Speaker 3>of it. You can say span dot slice I believe,

996
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.559
<v Speaker 3>and that will give you a SPAN without doing any

997
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.320
<v Speaker 3>memory copies that starts at that offset that you specify cool,

998
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 3>so then you can do whatever you want to that nice, Yeah.

999
00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:55.639
<v Speaker 2>Very nice.

1000
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I remember talking to Mark Mark Heath of an i

1001
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.960
<v Speaker 1>udio fame about spans when I first heard about them,

1002
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:06.679
<v Speaker 1>and I think he implemented them behind the scenes in

1003
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.400
<v Speaker 1>and audio and made it more performance and safer.

1004
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, and it's it. What is really awesome about

1005
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:14.199
<v Speaker 3>is you get you also get access to all the

1006
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:16.840
<v Speaker 3>first class stuff like for each four loops. Yeah, and

1007
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 3>you're not having to do that manual You're not having

1008
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.079
<v Speaker 3>to do the manual pointer arithmetic as well.

1009
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1010
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:24.760
<v Speaker 3>Again you can in unsafe mode. You can totally do

1011
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:27.760
<v Speaker 3>that and it will, it behaves exactly. But you have

1012
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:28.719
<v Speaker 3>to really think about it.

1013
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, more than I want to think about plumbing.

1014
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but you think about it once and it's done.

1015
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:38.599
<v Speaker 2>That's why we like the library builders too. Absolutely may

1016
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:42.039
<v Speaker 2>make our lives easier for this stuff. I might include

1017
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:44.519
<v Speaker 2>a link to an audio now on GitHub. I know

1018
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.719
<v Speaker 2>I referred to it in the comment as on CodePlex,

1019
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:49.960
<v Speaker 2>but they moved. Well.

1020
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.599
<v Speaker 3>Remember once upon a time stuff used to it was CodePlex.

1021
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Stuff also lived on code project for a long time.

1022
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, code project. Yeah.

1023
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.360
<v Speaker 3>Number of libraries that would just be like, hey, here's

1024
00:51:58.360 --> 00:51:59.599
<v Speaker 3>the DLL. Go have fun.

1025
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:03.039
<v Speaker 2>Then one day, I mean GitHub has won. Right, It's

1026
00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:06.239
<v Speaker 2>almost not a conversation anymore, pretty much just the way

1027
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:10.679
<v Speaker 2>it is. Well, remember their original tagline was social coding,

1028
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and we realize how important that is, Like I look

1029
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.400
<v Speaker 2>to the issue log to understand the health of a project,

1030
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:20.719
<v Speaker 2>Like the way people talk about that code matters a lot.

1031
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh yeah, intrinsics. Okay, what's that about.

1032
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:29.039
<v Speaker 3>So not entirely related to p and voke, but it's

1033
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:31.760
<v Speaker 3>a big deal when it comes to performance and dot net.

1034
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.480
<v Speaker 3>And this is kind of one of the arguments about,

1035
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, should we write our high performance code in

1036
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.119
<v Speaker 3>C sharp or should we write our high performance code

1037
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:42.280
<v Speaker 3>in a lower level language like C. And one of

1038
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:46.559
<v Speaker 3>the items is I want to use hardware accelerated vector

1039
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:51.760
<v Speaker 3>operations or single instruction multiple data SI MD instructions. Where

1040
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:54.039
<v Speaker 3>this really comes into play is you know, think about

1041
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.920
<v Speaker 3>like you're doing matrix transformations way outside my pay grade.

1042
00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even going to pretend that I'm good at

1043
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:06.039
<v Speaker 3>that stuff. There are instructions that many modern CPUs support

1044
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:08.320
<v Speaker 3>that allow you to say, you know, do a bunch

1045
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:10.760
<v Speaker 3>of additions all at the same time, or like, you know,

1046
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.480
<v Speaker 3>do four data rights at the same time instead of

1047
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:15.480
<v Speaker 3>having to do you know a four each a four

1048
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:18.239
<v Speaker 3>loop where it's like I'm going to process. Well, where

1049
00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:24.159
<v Speaker 3>I do it the most is transforming filling black for example. Sure,

1050
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:26.960
<v Speaker 3>so big operation in my multiview is after every frame

1051
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.000
<v Speaker 3>I have an I have four or five frame buffer

1052
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.960
<v Speaker 3>setup that I draw to. And so after I'm done

1053
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:34.880
<v Speaker 3>drawing to, before I draw the next frame, the first

1054
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:38.360
<v Speaker 3>operation I need to do is fill black. So just clear,

1055
00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:41.079
<v Speaker 3>just blank out that frame for all rows and then

1056
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:45.039
<v Speaker 3>for all columns exactly exactly. So if I do so,

1057
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:47.719
<v Speaker 3>if I do the purely naive version where I'm just

1058
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:51.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm literally writing black, you know, a black byte pixel

1059
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.760
<v Speaker 3>across all the pixels in that frame buffer. On one

1060
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 3>of my target systems, that takes a millisecond. And now

1061
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.519
<v Speaker 3>you think, okay, a millisecond. So what if I'm running

1062
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:03.639
<v Speaker 3>at sixty frames per second, I get sixteen milliseconds in

1063
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:06.719
<v Speaker 3>which to realize a frame. Yeah, that's not a lot

1064
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.079
<v Speaker 3>of time, and so a full one to sixteenth of

1065
00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:13.880
<v Speaker 3>that time is now spent just filling the thing with black.

1066
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:16.800
<v Speaker 3>If I go a little bit smarter and I say, okay,

1067
00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:20.199
<v Speaker 3>I know that I'm essentially writing a constant, So I'm

1068
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.679
<v Speaker 3>just going to write a thirty two bit int, you know,

1069
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:25.920
<v Speaker 3>and then do skip four bytes out of time. So

1070
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:28.639
<v Speaker 3>I'll write four bytes skip, write four byte skip. That

1071
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:30.760
<v Speaker 3>time goes down to about two hundred and seventy one

1072
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:33.880
<v Speaker 3>or zero point two seven one milliseconds or two hundred

1073
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:38.239
<v Speaker 3>and seventy one microseconds. Right. Nice, So we've already saved.

1074
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:40.480
<v Speaker 3>So just doing that hack has saved us some time.

1075
00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:43.320
<v Speaker 3>If I do sixty four bits, so I do longs,

1076
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:46.320
<v Speaker 3>I bring that time down to one hundred and ninety microseconds.

1077
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

1078
00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:51.920
<v Speaker 3>If I use avx two, which is a single instruction

1079
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:56.719
<v Speaker 3>multiple data extension for the X eighty six platform, that

1080
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.400
<v Speaker 3>code is super crazy, and I will fully admit that chat,

1081
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:01.559
<v Speaker 3>GPT and lot helped me write that and make it

1082
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:02.199
<v Speaker 3>work at all.

1083
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:03.599
<v Speaker 1>Ah excellent.

1084
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but the original naive version took one millisecond one

1085
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:15.880
<v Speaker 3>forty three microseconds. The SIMD version took seventy two microseconds.

1086
00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, jeez, that's significant.

1087
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Think about this. Yeah, significant, not only significant, but it's

1088
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:27.719
<v Speaker 3>in C sharp and I'm accessing and I'm accessing, say

1089
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:33.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm accessing raw hardware essentially raw hardware instructions. So instead

1090
00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:36.519
<v Speaker 3>of having to write that performance critical code like normally

1091
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:40.199
<v Speaker 3>if you wanted to access AVX or SIMB instructions, you

1092
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:42.760
<v Speaker 3>would be going into C Like that's just that's just

1093
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:44.039
<v Speaker 3>a done deal, dude.

1094
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:50.119
<v Speaker 1>You can now write the trippiest screensaver ever, Yes, in

1095
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.599
<v Speaker 1>C sharp. Yeah, I knew you would come to the

1096
00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:58.000
<v Speaker 1>killer app and sooner or later we can find it's

1097
00:55:58.039 --> 00:55:58.639
<v Speaker 1>finally here.

1098
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:00.719
<v Speaker 3>We can finally do all the plasma moost scene effects

1099
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:01.800
<v Speaker 3>we've always wanted.

1100
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely in hardware, but so which you can then ingest

1101
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:10.360
<v Speaker 1>into a v mix thing and you know, while you wait,

1102
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:13.599
<v Speaker 1>you could just you know, be rendering that stuff.

1103
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 3>Well yeah, exactly. Another place the SAMD is important for too,

1104
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.599
<v Speaker 3>is say I'm doing pixel format conversions where I know,

1105
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:26.239
<v Speaker 3>I you know, I'm i've NDI likes YUV four two two,

1106
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:29.280
<v Speaker 3>so I have. And the way the yav pixels work

1107
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:32.480
<v Speaker 3>is basically the human eye is more sensitive to brightness

1108
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:35.239
<v Speaker 3>than it is to changes in color. So what we're

1109
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:38.119
<v Speaker 3>what we can do on most modern displays is say, hey,

1110
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:41.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to encode my luminance. My brightness is going

1111
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:46.599
<v Speaker 3>to be encoded at full resolution so I have nineteen

1112
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:50.119
<v Speaker 3>twenty by ten eighty resolution for luma, and then for

1113
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.360
<v Speaker 3>my color data. I can take advantage of the fact

1114
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.039
<v Speaker 3>that the human eye kind of sucks, and I can

1115
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:58.559
<v Speaker 3>do I can encode a macropixel and say, for every

1116
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:02.280
<v Speaker 3>one bit of you and V data my chroma data,

1117
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:06.239
<v Speaker 3>that will be decoded into two pixels worth of color data.

1118
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:08.239
<v Speaker 3>So if I combine the luma and the chroma together,

1119
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:09.840
<v Speaker 3>I get reproduction of color.

1120
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Why am I thinking of Gaussian splatting right now? Do

1121
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:15.320
<v Speaker 1>you know what that is?

1122
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't.

1123
00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:18.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm not even gonna we're gonna take that

1124
00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:24.199
<v Speaker 1>out Brandy, because it's only good if he's up on it.

1125
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:26.960
<v Speaker 1>But I'll tell you while we're in an edit point. Okay,

1126
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:31.320
<v Speaker 1>it's basically a way that instead of doing regular rendering,

1127
00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:37.840
<v Speaker 1>you can, oh, you know, like Gaussian blurring. He basically

1128
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:45.840
<v Speaker 1>create these splats of starting with low resolution detail and

1129
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:51.440
<v Speaker 1>then getting higher resolution over them, and for some way

1130
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.559
<v Speaker 1>you can do like sixty frames per second rendering of

1131
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:58.440
<v Speaker 1>a model in real time. Wow, And it's really amazing.

1132
00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:03.320
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, go look that Upusian splatting, Gaussian slat latti NG.

1133
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:06.400
<v Speaker 1>There's some great demos out there, but it's coming. It's

1134
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:07.800
<v Speaker 1>a technology that's coming.

1135
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:09.400
<v Speaker 3>That sounded like something I needed a towel for.

1136
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, you will you will need a towel when you

1137
00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:17.239
<v Speaker 1>did this stuff. All right, So what haven't we talked

1138
00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:20.400
<v Speaker 1>about before you before we wrap up here, anything else?

1139
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 3>I the philosophical side of YP and VOC is so important,

1140
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Like because I took a little bit of time after

1141
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.880
<v Speaker 3>doing after making all these wrapper libraries you know, around

1142
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.519
<v Speaker 3>the around NDI, around n Bank, even starting on doing

1143
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:38.960
<v Speaker 3>rapper libraries around Apple's Video Toolbox, which that's their hardware

1144
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:44.360
<v Speaker 3>and code. By the way, the Apple silicon for doing

1145
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:47.400
<v Speaker 3>hardware encode and decode of H two sixty four, two

1146
00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:50.360
<v Speaker 3>sixty five and AVY one is like worth the price

1147
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.800
<v Speaker 3>of admission of having the burden of voting a Mac.

1148
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:55.599
<v Speaker 3>It's just those chips are insanely good.

1149
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm, even on a MacBook.

1150
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, on even on a base M one, yea, even

1151
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:03.679
<v Speaker 3>on a base M one MacBook Air. It's unbelievable the

1152
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:06.239
<v Speaker 3>amount of horsepower you get out of that machine. Yeah, yeah,

1153
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.599
<v Speaker 3>it's it's just unbelievable. It's just unfortunate that it's a Mac.

1154
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but any of those all those m chips are extraordinary.

1155
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah they are.

1156
00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:16.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But the philosophical importance of why P and voke

1157
00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:20.039
<v Speaker 3>is such an awesome technology, why it's underrated is because

1158
00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.880
<v Speaker 3>say I'm in Java land and I wanted to call

1159
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:26.800
<v Speaker 3>into a unmanaged library. Their story has gotten a little

1160
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:29.880
<v Speaker 3>bit better, but you are still needing to write an

1161
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.400
<v Speaker 3>unmanaged wrapper that your Java library can call into. So

1162
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.159
<v Speaker 3>think about the process. I want to call the Nvidia

1163
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:41.599
<v Speaker 3>API from Java, I need to write an intermediary layer

1164
00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:46.079
<v Speaker 3>in C that I can then call from Java in

1165
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:47.360
<v Speaker 3>order to do my P and voke.

1166
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1167
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Whereas with dot net, I, as long as I get

1168
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:53.199
<v Speaker 3>the function signature is right, and as long as I

1169
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:56.920
<v Speaker 3>annotate everything correctly, the compiler in the back end figures

1170
00:59:56.960 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 3>all that stuff out for me.

1171
00:59:58.559 --> 00:59:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

1172
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:01.719
<v Speaker 3>So what you to take, Like you could literally take,

1173
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:04.400
<v Speaker 3>and I've done this with a couple of APIs. Take

1174
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.920
<v Speaker 3>the C header file for you know, an SDK of

1175
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:10.159
<v Speaker 3>some sort, put it into chat GPT. Say I need

1176
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:11.199
<v Speaker 3>P and vote calls for this.

1177
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:14.320
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna suggest that, yep, And it's exactly what

1178
01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:15.320
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna do.

1179
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and bam, You've now got a complete wrapper for

1180
01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:19.840
<v Speaker 3>any of this stuff chat.

1181
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:24.199
<v Speaker 1>GPT is great for transforming something into something else.

1182
01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:24.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1183
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1184
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:27.920
<v Speaker 3>But the reason this is really cool is think about

1185
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:30.639
<v Speaker 3>what we've got here. Think about the original design goal

1186
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:34.119
<v Speaker 3>of the C language. We wanted to have portable code

1187
01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:36.960
<v Speaker 3>because we had all of these different architectures, they all

1188
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:40.960
<v Speaker 3>operated differently. We wanted we wanted to have encapsuley essentially

1189
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:43.840
<v Speaker 3>our logic into a higher level language that human beings

1190
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:47.000
<v Speaker 3>can understand, because let's face it, you know, looking at

1191
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:49.519
<v Speaker 3>a line that says tax, what the hell does that do?

1192
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1193
01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:54.519
<v Speaker 3>But if you look at you know, say, uh, you know,

1194
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:58.079
<v Speaker 3>frame rate equals sixty. Oh okay, I have a general

1195
01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:00.599
<v Speaker 3>idea that I'm setting a frame rate variable that represents

1196
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:02.960
<v Speaker 3>the frame rate of some operation, and that is equal

1197
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:05.480
<v Speaker 3>to the value sixty. I, as a human can understand that.

1198
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.440
<v Speaker 3>The problem with the problem, I would say with C,

1199
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:11.039
<v Speaker 3>maybe not even the problem, but just the limitation with

1200
01:01:11.119 --> 01:01:13.519
<v Speaker 3>C is because it is such a low level language,

1201
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:16.760
<v Speaker 3>and the design goals of it were to balance out

1202
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:21.599
<v Speaker 3>the raw hardware speed with a bit of human creature comfort.

1203
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:25.400
<v Speaker 3>You don't have a whole lot of safeties there. We

1204
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:27.679
<v Speaker 3>try to rectify that a little bit with C plus

1205
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:30.800
<v Speaker 3>plus but that is a whole mess that I don't

1206
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:32.639
<v Speaker 3>even want to talk about. I've done enough C plus

1207
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:35.280
<v Speaker 3>plus CLI that it makes me hurt. I still have

1208
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:36.440
<v Speaker 3>nightmares from those days.

1209
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.119
<v Speaker 1>It hurts. It hurts my brain just thinking about it.

1210
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:39.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh.

1211
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:41.199
<v Speaker 1>I think Kate Gregory is the only one that actually

1212
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.039
<v Speaker 1>enjoys writing C plus plus Kate.

1213
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:47.079
<v Speaker 3>Kate Gregory is a champion. She she's like, the fact

1214
01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:49.599
<v Speaker 3>that she can make that stuff work is just I've

1215
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:53.400
<v Speaker 3>infinite respect just yea too. I can listen to her

1216
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:55.039
<v Speaker 3>speak for days on that stuff.

1217
01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:56.800
<v Speaker 2>But you've also found a way to get the kind

1218
01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:59.599
<v Speaker 2>of farms we're talking that we need here to handle

1219
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.599
<v Speaker 2>multiple streams and not need to live in C plus

1220
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:03.400
<v Speaker 2>plus line.

1221
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or or just live in seaaland when you need

1222
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:09.039
<v Speaker 3>to for those for them, it's the application, because like

1223
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:11.840
<v Speaker 3>do we need to write every last I'll give you

1224
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:15.480
<v Speaker 3>an example for my multiview. I've got a web api

1225
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:19.079
<v Speaker 3>h gdp api that you can use to make to

1226
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.039
<v Speaker 3>change everything about the multiview. If you want to assign sources,

1227
01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:24.639
<v Speaker 3>if you want to move boxes on the screen around

1228
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:28.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, why do I need to write that in

1229
01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.320
<v Speaker 3>C plus plus right? Like, there's no good reason for.

1230
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:33.920
<v Speaker 2>It, no reason, and plenty of reasons not.

1231
01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:37.559
<v Speaker 3>To, Yeah, exactly, not least of which are security, right,

1232
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Like how it's just.

1233
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:43.239
<v Speaker 2>The fragility, the maintainability, like it's all those things.

1234
01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So nothing else today, kids, you've learned that p

1235
01:02:48.039 --> 01:02:50.840
<v Speaker 1>and voke is way more powerful than you thought it

1236
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:53.079
<v Speaker 1>was ever going to be back when you were calling

1237
01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the Windows API from vb net or c sharp, you know,

1238
01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:02.119
<v Speaker 1>one point zero. Because now the platform have expanded and

1239
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:04.920
<v Speaker 1>we still have p and vogue, so we can take

1240
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:07.840
<v Speaker 1>our dot net code and go anywhere and get to

1241
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the native hardware. That's that's the philosophy that Elias is

1242
01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:14.920
<v Speaker 1>talking about here, that we have to get out of

1243
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Windows mode in dot net, yes, and into cross platform mode.

1244
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:20.159
<v Speaker 1>And this is just one example of that.

1245
01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:23.599
<v Speaker 3>Well here's one last point. I just thought of this,

1246
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:25.679
<v Speaker 3>and this is like a penny drop moment for me.

1247
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:29.719
<v Speaker 3>Imagine you've got some legacy code and I'm talking like

1248
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:32.039
<v Speaker 3>the author, and I've been in the scenario where it's

1249
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:35.199
<v Speaker 3>like literally the author of that original code has passed on,

1250
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:37.519
<v Speaker 3>so we can't even go drag them out of drag

1251
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:39.599
<v Speaker 3>them out of retirement and ask them like what does

1252
01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:43.159
<v Speaker 3>this do maybe we've lost the source code, but we've

1253
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.039
<v Speaker 3>got this, you know, but we've got this wrapped into

1254
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:48.880
<v Speaker 3>a library of some sort, or we can get close enough, right,

1255
01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:52.239
<v Speaker 3>And we don't want to rewrite this old piece of

1256
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:54.000
<v Speaker 3>logic that lives in a c library, lives in an

1257
01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:57.880
<v Speaker 3>unmanaged library, but we need to use it for some reason. Okay, cool,

1258
01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:00.960
<v Speaker 3>we can write a if you can write C sharp,

1259
01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:04.199
<v Speaker 3>you can call into that existing DLL and that can

1260
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:06.519
<v Speaker 3>just live on as a rapper. And because we can

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01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:09.840
<v Speaker 3>target X eighty six thirty two, X eighty six sixty four,

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01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.880
<v Speaker 3>ARM thirty two, ARM sixty four whatever platforms dot Net

1263
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:15.719
<v Speaker 3>will compile down to. This is now a means of

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01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:20.519
<v Speaker 3>preserving and carrying forward that old legacy code, you know,

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01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:23.679
<v Speaker 3>in a modern language with all the modern creature comforts.

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01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:26.320
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to bring cameras into your software,

1267
01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:29.400
<v Speaker 2>use POE cameras. Your life will be simpler. Oh yes,

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01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:32.559
<v Speaker 2>please do no custom hardware. It's just on the network.

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01:04:32.599 --> 01:04:34.960
<v Speaker 2>It has an IP address. You'll be fine.

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01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm, all right, And NDI is your uncle Elias.

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01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. This has been a great talk

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01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:45.199
<v Speaker 1>for me personally, and I hope everyone else that's interested

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01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:46.199
<v Speaker 1>in audio and videos.

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01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, it's been an absolute pleasure. I think I'm

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01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:49.960
<v Speaker 3>going to go off and see if I can adjust

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01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:51.159
<v Speaker 3>my sound last settings.

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01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, playjazz dot mid while you're at playjazz dot mid.

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01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:20.840
<v Speaker 1>All right, We'll see you next time on dot dot net.

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01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced

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01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:27.719
<v Speaker 1>by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post

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01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:31.880
<v Speaker 1>production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, and of

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01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:36.840
<v Speaker 1>course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit

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01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:39.000
<v Speaker 1>our website at d O T N E t R

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01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:43.000
<v Speaker 1>O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

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01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:46.800
<v Speaker 1>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1286
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:50.039
<v Speaker 1>back to show number one, recorded in September two.

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01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Thousand and two.

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01:05:51.159 --> 01:05:53.480
<v Speaker 1>And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep

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01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:56.760
<v Speaker 1>us in business. Now go write some code. See you

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01:05:56.760 --> 01:06:02.800
<v Speaker 1>next time. You got Jack Dully to see A summer

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01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:08.440
<v Speaker 1>time that means is home than my Texas a lie

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01:06:08.679 --> 01:06:09.320
<v Speaker 1>fresival