Speaker 1: What is up?
Speaker 2: Fellas Seko's I Am Dana Valley coming at you with
more Jensen of the NBA Podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports,
Fame of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans celebrity. We're here
to talk about what else the NBA Finals. We are
recording this in advance of Game six, but we're gonna
kind of just get into some big picture stuff, including
that's Tire's Haliburton injury, the play of j Dubb before
we get started, though more, How the heck are you?
Speaker 3: I am doing well, sir.
Speaker 4: Look I am enjoying this Finals to the fullest, but
I'm also very much anxious for the season to be
over so I won't have to get to bed at
like six in the morning to cover the championship round.
Speaker 2: What about to cover all the free agency signings with
all that cap space and big names that are floating
right that I.
Speaker 3: Look forward to.
Speaker 4: Because I can pick my own hours. There is not
really set like I don't have to be in front
of anything like at this at a specific time, Like sure,
free agency is gonna kick off at a certain time. Yes,
I think midnight my time, But you know what, that's
manageable and I'll just stay up for a couple hours
and then I can pick up in the morning.
Speaker 2: I was making a joke because there is no cap
space and really no good free agent, so it's sort
of like the.
Speaker 3: Trades of trades are still a thing.
Speaker 2: They're still think I think trades are gonna be the
bigger thing, as the Magic Grizzlies kind of showed us already.
Let's start talking about these finals, though, and I think
the place to begin is Jalen Williams. Uh had a
forty burger in Game five, hit some really big shots
had to go in from the in between. He's had
some sort of low moments during these playoffs and during
this series, but his defense is buying large, been fantastic
through and through and I know a bunch of people
probably feel the same way here. But when he has
it going on the same night that Shaye does, that's
when I sit there and go, this is like the
thunder future.
Speaker 1: And you could say the same thing with.
Speaker 2: Chet to where it's there if they want to run
the tape indefinitely, Like if you have Jay Dubb reaching
a level that he did in game six, excuse me
game five specifically, you as the Oklahoma City Thunder have
that feeling of inevitability with like the setup both in
terms of your salaries and your assets to continue just
getting back to this moment. I won't say every year
because we know how that's kind of worked over the
past seven years or so, but like you are just
always going to be relevant in the thick of things,
if not lording over the field.
Speaker 1: And that's what like and.
Speaker 2: Again it was sort of an indie felt like they
kind of absorbed a lot of Oklahoma City's best stuff
before they were able to, you know, kind of claw
back in the second half before then letting go of
the rope. But when Jay Dubb is like that and
the way he's grown as a player, just with like
his decision making on the ball, specifically even as a passer,
but definitely in terms of getting to his spots, finding
his shots, hitting these turnarounds and these fadeaways, manipulating defenses.
He can operate it's like similar to Shay. Different players,
of course, but similar to Shay where he can operate
with the dial at so many different notches now to
where earlier on in his career felt like he had
to rely on sort of the speed or like the
fast pace of it. But now he really is just
able to manipulate and butcher defenses.
Speaker 1: And this is Look, this.
Speaker 2: Series has been fantastic. It doesn't take anything away from
the Pacers. But like when you talk about the thunder
being inevitable or feeling inevitable, sometimes it's not just about Shay,
it's about oh, they have Shay.
Speaker 1: And then there's this guy right here.
Speaker 2: In Ja Dubb already an All NBA player who hasn't
You could quibble over whether you would have had him
All NBA whatever, Like we just don't even know his
ceiling yet, because it would be what is jaale On
Williams's ceiling.
Speaker 1: If I told you, like, is it top ten, top fifteen?
Speaker 4: To me?
Speaker 2: I mean, he already technically was like one of the
fifteen most valuable players according to All NBA vote voting.
But to have that guy, like, to have someone I'll
wrap it up here, to have someone this young who
hasn't hit his prime yet, just to be on thirteen
All NBA is your second option. So like it's not
even a Cade situation in Detroit. And don't get me wrong,
Kid's fantastic. That's kind of insane.
Speaker 4: It is it is? And I also think that for
now at least we do have the answers to that question.
You know, there was a lot of discussion about who
is going to be the secondary to Shay.
Speaker 3: Is it going to be Jadab? Is it going to
be chet Like?
Speaker 4: Would it be like the point and the center combination
with Jada being more of like a connector. No, I
think he's answered that question pretty thoroughly. Like he wants
more than just to be a connector. He wants more
than that. He wants to be a scorer as well.
He wants to be able to dictate, dictate terms. He
wants to be a guy who can get things done.
Like I do think over the course of regular seasons
coming in the future, he will have periods where he's
fully content being a connector someone who gets into the
background a little bit more. But when push comes to shove,
he's showing us he can actually assert himself and apply
himself in a way that we don't necessarily see all
the time over the course of the regular receipt So
for him to become a playoff performer, and I am
fully well aware, rather that he had struggles earlier in
these playoffs I'm well aware, but this is the biggest stage,
and he's responding big time. The Thunder have to be immensely,
immensely satisfied with what they're seeing from him right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's sort of just because I think we've
seen it in this series where sometimes I find myself thinking, man,
if they could just have a higher volume outside shooter
that could crack their playoff rotation. It feels like that's
what their offense is missing a lot of the time.
But then you have these stretches from Jayalen Williams where no,
he's not necessarily satisfying a HIG volume three point criteria,
but you look at the way you look at the
way that him and Shay create their shots, the types
of shots that they're hitting, and you're like, no, you
know what, I get it, Like, sometimes the offense will
be a slog, but to have both of these guys,
these frum scratch options who in Jay Dubb's case, can
very specifically work without the ball. And then even we saw,
you know, at the end of Game four when you
saw them in the screening actions together, and I found
myself thinking, like, I don't know that I saw that
a ton this year and I was like, oh, you
must not have been playing close enough attention. And then
the stat comes out I think was per John Schumann
of NBA dot Com, where it's they set nine ball
screens for one another, which is like and their previous
high might have been like two or something, or it
hadn't been done in this it was. It was freaking
nuts and so like to even do that, and that's
the you know, that's part of the reason why there
used to be and I say used to because if
it's still happening, I haven't seen it. It's interesting because
there used to be that debate of oh, is Chet
or J Dub the thunder second most important player, And
it's just like that discussion, Not that it feels laughable now,
but it's just very clearly JDub when you're looking at
all the positional holes that he can fill defensively, to
where he received a lot of credit for the way
that he played center for so much of that early
portion of the regular season essentially, but then just like
I wouldn't go as far as to call him a
five position defender, but he is also basically that, which
is absurd.
Speaker 4: And look, even if he isn't a five position to
you can legitimately ask yourself, is he two?
Speaker 3: Is he a three? Is her four?
Speaker 4: And the answer would be a resounding yes, like to
all of it, like you can you can slot him in.
And I think that also this isn't on court related,
but that gives you roster flexibility moving forward. Like do
you suddenly get a chance to get a superbly talented,
like clear cut two guard in there?
Speaker 3: All right, says Jaylen Williams, I'll just move to the three.
Speaker 4: All of a sudden, you might find a three man,
all right, Jallel Williams will say, and he'll move to
the four. Like you can just kind of move him
around what you need. You can even play him at
the point on occasion, I would argue. So the positional flexibility,
as we know, is just so vital in today's league,
and he fills up all that. It's it does feel
like I'm getting way ahead of myself here, But I
do think the Thunder art going to win the finals.
And I think because of his presence alone with Shay,
because of and the depth and all that, I think
this is the team that could really break this stretch
of non repeaters because imagine Jalen Williams a year from now,
He's gonna be even better. He's gonna have the confidence
of having won a title. He's gonna have the confidence
of knowing, oh, I just made All NBA, maybe for
the second time in twelve months. Maybe maybe you'll make
it one more time at that point. So we're looking
at a guy who is literally just scratching the surface
of his potential, which is haunting when you consider just
the stranglehold that this team could have on the league
next year.
Speaker 2: And I think there, you know, his final form is
kind of the thunders final form to where it's how
much better can you feel about the offense when he
is running things during those minutes that Sga is on
the bench. And I think in previous years he caught
and just like the Thunder in general, caught a lot
of flak for how dependent they were on Shay and
you can see them regress to that sometimes. I'm still
but like during the regular season, when he was able
to have a Hartenstein or a Hume Grin on the
floor with him, the thunderwere by and large able to
make it work. And during the entire playoffs, mort they
have a one to sixteen point six offensive rating when
Jay Dubb plays without Shay. That's not like upper echelon elite,
but it's in the seventy first percentile. And it's like,
if that's what you're doing, like that is kind of
the And it's stupid to say that's the final form
because Shays always going to be on the floor when
it matters most. But it's also like you want to
be well rested during the regular season and have a
bunch of like margins of victory that are steep enough
so that you can keep your guys from playing too
many minutes. Those stints without Shay are a huge part
of that, and the fact that you're able to and
now you can go through and say, okay, like some
of the like the Grizzly series was a little bit
of a farce there, I totally get it, But like,
I think we've just seen improvement, if not year over years,
certainly on incremental levels throughout the course of this season
that you can feel good up with Jaylen Williams as
a league create or against bench units if it was
ever Shay's in foul trouble and we need Jay or
Shay's injured a knock on something.
Speaker 1: We don't ever want that to happen.
Speaker 2: That's something where I think that he might still be limited,
like in that specific area. And that amounts to me saying, oh,
he's not the second best player in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Who who could have thunk it? So like, and that's like,
I'm not gonna rule.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's gonna become the second best player
in the NBA, but we just can't.
Speaker 1: You mentioned it.
Speaker 2: He's still young, He's going to get better, and so
I just feel like these are the moments the games,
like when you have Shay and Jay dubbing, Like, by
the way, we're talking about j dub and Shaye, what
do you have thirty one in game five? So just
another spectacular night from him. But those are the games
where you just see it's okay, we have to appreciate
what's happening now. And it's not like we couldn't see
the vision moving forward, but you just get a sense of,
oh damn, like this is how unstoppable the thunder can feel.
Speaker 4: And you know what's even crazier there is even though
he made all him this year, I felt as though
he had a bit of a down year at least
like shooting the ball, like the offensive efficiency wasn't there.
He missed a lot of bunnies throughout the course of
the year where he was just putting on the jets
a little too much and like a layup would just flow.
Speaker 3: Off the back of the rim.
Speaker 4: Like I think we can even bake that in a
little bit that he won't necessarily be as I don't
want to call him outright inefficient, because I don't think
he was, but like I do think it's fair to
say he would be significantly more efficient return to norm
per se even next year. And if we're looking at
a guy who's suddenly averaging twenty four twenty five, you know,
those arbitrary numbers, I get it, But like at that
Etchelong doing it with high efficiency scoring, still being a
secondary playmaker, still being an elite defender, still being a
strong ass rebounder, still being a three to four positional player.
I mean, you couldn't tailor a secondary guy better than that.
Speaker 3: You just couldn't.
Speaker 2: No, And I looked it up because I was just
curious as to what the Thunder's offensive rating was when Jay.
Speaker 1: Dub played without Shay in this series.
Speaker 2: It's one, ten, one, ten point one, which is not
exceptionally high, but their net rating in those that samples
fourteen point five. And so it's like that's where you
come back to the defense to where even if though
even if those so I agree with you on the
shooting stuff specifically, and I'm just maybe I'm starting to
feel this way about too many star players, but specifically
the Thunder. It's like, oh, if Shay took more threes,
and it's oh, if Jay dub might have taken a
little bit more, No, if Chet takes more. But like
if he's imperfect on offense and no players perfect, maybe
I guess maybe Nicol Jokic on the offensive end, it's
pretty hard to quibble with him, right, right, But like
if you're just conceding certain functionalities on offense because oh,
this is someone who might just be in any given
season one of the ten or fifteen most valuable defenders,
then you're just going.
Speaker 1: To be fine.
Speaker 2: And so like this Thunder model is chaotic. Their turnovers
forced two points off turnovers in game four, uh, game five,
excuse me, is insane, and you have that and then
it's just oh, yeah, like we just have like two
you know, all NBA caliber offensive players on our team
as well, stupid stuff.
Speaker 4: I will say this about Shay though, you know, I
do think he was necessary for him to get the
three this year, and to his credit, like he more
than doubled his rate from two years ago. So I
do think having that step back three point capability of
him just being a constant threat that gave more space
to his teammates. So like, I wouldn't hate if JDA
began shooting more threes next year, but it has to
come within, you know, the flow of the game. I
agree with you that it shouldn't be one of those
things where you sacrifice the betterment of the team and
the better shots and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Like and the other thing there too is sorry, is
just like, what are the shots that defenses will concede
more in the playoffs? It's the ones that Shay and
j dubb are making. And also concede is like a
really strong word because you look at some of the
shots that Shay and j Dub have needed to hit
from mid range during this series, and they started out
ice cold from there. So looking at Game and five specifically,
there's nothing like the Pacers aren't necessarily conceding anything like
some of those are just so heavily contested, and so
there's value in Yeah, I don't want him getting out
there and shooting ten threes a game like he's Steph.
That's that's That's not what I was saying by any stretch.
Speaker 4: Now, Chet, on the other hand, taking ten to threes
per game, if he can just get the accuracy back to,
you know, not playoff level.
Speaker 3: Right now, he's hitting like fourteen percent or something. It's
a greaches.
Speaker 4: But I do think he has down the line the
potential to be more high volume, and that would be
interesting if Check could be kind of like the floor spacer,
just opening up for those two, take a big man
out of the paint, him being like a constant shooting threat,
making sure he clears the court for those two.
Speaker 3: Good luck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also the thunder just we're talking about that.
And meanwhile, Home Grin, Williams and shay Or should like
a combined thirty from three. Basically they're all under thirty
two percent for the finals. I mean, so absolutely wild
stuff here.
Speaker 4: Not lou Dort has saved their asses, though I will
say this, the moon Baugh.
Speaker 2: The lou Dort moon ball, sometimes I just wonder when
he gets it. Sometimes I'm like afraid it's not going
to come down.
Speaker 4: Right, No, it's and and the thing that just impresses
the hell out of me is, you know how NBA players,
because they're professional, you know that what is considered an
open shot to them is not considered an open shot
for the rest of us, but for him specifically, because
he's only six' three and he has guys much taller
than him closing out on. Him so he just has
to launch that thing in such an odd ankle and
it just it clears like some of these doesn't even
hit the. Rim it's just. It Lou dort is another
reminder of how perversely good professional basketball players.
Speaker 1: Are, yes SPOILERER nba players are.
Speaker 3: GOOD i, KNOW i.
Speaker 2: Know we need to talk about The Tyres haliburton, injury
right capstrain that as we're recording, this we've yet to
hear the results of AN, mri which will determine whether
he's going to play In game six and then what
that means For game, seven if he can't play or
if he's going to be.
Speaker 1: Hobbled that's kind of a.
Speaker 2: Bummer and you could see it because like If Tyre's
haliburn isn't getting into the paint or isn't being, aggressive
like even just as someone like trying to penetrate the. Defense,
right The pacers are such a different team and it's
they got some spirit magic FROM tj. McConnell you probably
some people wanted By Rick carlott and go back to
him earlier towards the end Of game. Five but and
the way That siakam's been, playing and even like What
Obi toppin has. Done the dude can't, rebound but like
he's just been a Huge he's been a huge. Jolt
he's been more valuable To indiana Than Miles turner this.
Series so The pacers are deep and they always have,
counters and you have to commend them for making like didn't.
Speaker 1: It Feel it's probably felt sway a couple times in the.
Speaker 2: Series it felt Like game five was gonna come off
the rails at one, point yeah or not at one,
point at many points and it eventually you know the final, score, like,
okay it is what it, is but they made it
closer than that to where the game felt like it
was in real doubt late in the fourth later in
the fourth, QUARTER i should, say have they cleaned up
some of the turnovers which were you, know those felt
like a lot of unforced errors on their, Part but
you leave all that, aside cast it. Off If Tyres
haliburton Isn't Tyres, halliburton AND i don't like it could
be The Tyres haliburton that's taking seventeen, shots twenty, shots thirteen.
Speaker 1: SHOTS i don't.
Speaker 2: Care the way he moves on and off the ball
and sets the pace for The pacers defense Against Oklahoma
city's best, lineups that's just kind of a bummer to see, if,
like if the finals go out with him being being.
Speaker 4: Hobbled oh, yes, Yes, look this is always the concern
in the finals every single year that if one of
the teams missed their star, players like he goes, down
the entertainment factor goes, down the intrigue gangle goes, down
like everything just becomes a little bit because you want
to see these guys at their.
Speaker 3: Best and it's such a bummer for.
Speaker 4: Him because, look he just he brought this city to
the finals for the first time in what twenty five,
years and then to go down like this and presumably
they're gonna lose this. Series because if he's Not Tyre's,
halbert as you, said good luck like trying to come
back from this and even up the series and even win.
Speaker 3: It that's gonna.
Speaker 4: BE i, mean would that be the biggest clutch job?
Speaker 3: Ever might? BE i Don't DOES.
Speaker 1: Tj McConnell have fifty points or sixty points in that?
Speaker 4: Scenario yeah, RIGHT i mean we're up there and definitely
zero turnovers in that scenario that will be.
Speaker 3: Necessary, no but.
Speaker 4: It, sucks, Man it really really. Sucks but at the same,
time you have to, wonder, right do they wish to
go this route of, hey let's throw them out, there
knowing full well he can, uh like the injury can get,
worse and, Like god, forbid knock on what that doesn't
happen that the achilles start flaring up or tears it
or something along those Slide and it's, like if you're The,
pacers are you thinking long term or are you thinking screw,
it let's go for the, now Because i'm probably personally
thinking long.
Speaker 3: Term.
Speaker 2: YEAH i it's tough because you're never guaranteed to be back.
Here but WHEN i hear this and with the caveat,
That i'm not a doctor and so you're dealing with.
This it's called a calf, strain right, now does that
turn into something with the achilles would just terrify. Me
and so, Yeah I'm i'm playing the longer game as.
Well and just he's twenty five years. Old there's no
guarantee he's back, here but, like you have so much
time and he is regardless of getting back to this exact.
Spot here is your franchise's. Lifeline so you have to play,
IT i would say relatively. Safe but we also know
that he's someone who probably if like he has to
say in, it he's going to want to. Play AND
i think any player would like there's a, yeah you,
Know i'm, Good i'm not gonna play In game six
of THE Nba, Finals like no one's gonna want like
say that. Willingly so it's just really a tough. Situation
but you also have to, ask like if he's not
if he's not even close to, him like if he
can't move the way we know that he can, move
how like does he do.
Speaker 1: Some damage to the, Pacers Then i'm, LIKE i JUST i.
DON'T i.
Speaker 2: DON'T i can't wrap my head around the idea of
like A PACER's. Product that would be better Without Tyre's.
Haliburton but, if like if he looks like he did
in game, five, yeah in game, six that creates a
ton of challenges for them to work around when he
is on the.
Speaker 3: Floor it sucks that it's a lower body.
Speaker 4: Inturgue like let's say he had you, know a bad
wrist or an aching elbow or whatever the hell, is
just you, know something that's upper body. Related, yeah you
throw his ass out there and you, say, look just
do what you.
Speaker 3: Can it's.
Speaker 4: Fine the fact that its lower body just has all
my alarm bells like, ringing and it'd be, look it'd
be admirable if he went out. There i'm not gonna say.
Otherwise of COURSE i want to See Tyres haelibert and
on the. Floor BUT i, mean if if we learned
that he's not going to play in game, Six i'm
not going to criticize. Him i'm not going to criticize The.
Pacers i'm not going to criticize anyone because that is
probably the right way to.
Speaker 2: Go, yeah and it's who's gonna fault him for not?
Playing like THE if, fans that's a lot of dumb.
Fans that's incredible to me because if you're at this,
point especially when you've already watched him do the things
that he's done for there for like him not to,
PLAY i would almost be alarmed because Then i'm, like, well,
fuck how serious is this actual?
Speaker 3: Injury? Right? Yep?
Speaker 4: Oh And i've never never underrestedmate like the the casual
fan who will use any situation to get off some hot.
Stakes so like but, Us sikast will, Know we'll know
that this is outside of his, control that this was
just bad. Luck it, sucks, though and it sucks for.
Him you could tell in the postgame press or as.
Well you, know he was trying to play it, cool
but you can you can sense this bothers him a,
ton and why wouldn't? It of course it. Does so
now this just. Sucks it's a bad. SITUATION i. HATED
i hated for. HIM i hated for The pacers because
you know they had this sort of you, know team
of destiny vibe over. THEM i want to, SAY i
think that's fair to. Say and now suddenly to have you,
know basically the head of the snake not being alive and, well.
Speaker 3: It does take the air out of this series for.
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah and it's just like it sucks because it's
been such an enthralling series BECAUSE i was one of
the people that had thunder and Five and it's just The,
Pacers like when you look at how these games are,
unfolded The pacers could be the team that's up three to.
Two they in, theory could have won this, series all,
Right so it's like to see it go out like.
That but also WHAT i will say about The pacers
And Rick carlisle and just the.
Speaker 1: Things that he's willing to, try and the buttons he's
willing to.
Speaker 2: Push If Tyre's aliburton can't, player we just he's gonna
he's gonna try and gut it out is the phrasing
that they might. Use and he, said you know this
is him after the game and It's tyre's, Haliburt and
he said he's going to play in game.
Speaker 1: Six he's waiting for this his whole, LIFE i, believe
is what he.
Speaker 2: Said but if you know he's super, HOBBLED i wouldn't rule,
out just Like i'd be shocked if The pacers won this,
series BUT i wouldn't rull. Out, okay you're In indie
the crew we. Have, look all home courts are just generally,
awesome but, Like, okay See. Indiana it's like it would
have been the same if it was Okayc New, york
Because Madison Square garden is you, Know i'm not trying
to Offend knicks fans, here but it's been so cool
to just hear like they're just like IF i was
covering the game in the, BUILDING i would need ear
plugs probably to focus because they're just like earth shatteringly,
loud but like they'll be an indie, like you, know
you might just get like a special you, Know Obi
toppen didn't have a great offensive game and game like
maybe he pops Off Myles turners been kind of. QUIET
i didn't mean to disparage him by Saying obi top
has been more, valuable but he's provided more of an
offensive jolt for sure when you're looking at like certain those.
Lineups him next To siakam has been interesting to see. Against, okay,
SAY i wouldn't rule it, out but it would be
LIKE i don't, know like If halliburton is not, playing
or let's say that they even, say, oh it's like
fifty to.
Speaker 1: Fifty he's a game time.
Speaker 2: Decision how much are The thunder favored by in that,
game like thirteen and a half points or is that
like to it Because indy's, home somebody's like nine and
a half or.
Speaker 4: Something i'm not a betting expert, whatsoever but it has
to be in those in that, frame.
Speaker 2: Right it's tough because it's the it's the, road but,
yeah it's it feels like that's How but that's how
important he is to this.
Speaker 1: Team they're, deep they're.
Speaker 2: Versatile siakam is, Great Tyre's haliburton is the engine that
just sort of powers everything even when he's not. Scoring
AND i had actually searched to just see what the
converce because you were saying that people AND I I'M i.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't i'm not. SURPRISED i should have just.
Speaker 2: Known the discourse on, Him, yeah devolved into just like
AND i guess there was something said during one of
THE espn shows about like during.
Speaker 1: The either halftime or post.
Speaker 2: GAME i don't know how you watched that game and think, that,
oh he wasn't being aggressive, enough rather than, oh like
something's not. Right it's not an excuse you need like
you need to everyone gets lucky to win a, title
and it's just, like So i'm not trying to make
excuses for, me BUT i don't know how you watch
what happened or how he.
Speaker 3: Played to make an ex this is a perfect, No
i'm saying.
Speaker 2: An excuse in the sense that let's put an. Asterisk
city thunder is more so What i'm talking. ABOUT i
just don't know how you watch the way like he,
was like you could even see it when he was
sitting on the, bench and then like they panned to
him at one point UNTIL.
Speaker 1: I, GOD i HATE i hate, people.
Speaker 2: Not none of the people who are listening to. THIS
i love all of, you, probably but, LIKE i just
don't why is? That why is that either the con
tentp model or like our first thing is to just
glom onto this player and think that they're, soft weak
or that they're not a star because they're.
Speaker 1: Injured oh my, god, dude.
Speaker 4: This is just the, beginning because the off season is
about to, start right and look the POOR nba guy
who will put up something On instagram where he's getting
a smoothie or when he's sitting down with his family
and he'll get like one and fifty, responses.
Speaker 3: Why are you do in the.
Speaker 2: Gym why aren't you getting?
Speaker 3: Better you're not serious about your, game like you know
that's gonna. Happen that's the that's the. Model it's all very.
Speaker 2: PREDICTIVE i would like to move. That you record an
entire podcast in that. Voice that's why he's like a
nineteenth Like Bear bryant football.
Speaker 1: Coach voice, Guy like what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: It's you're right, Too and you know, What i'll even
say that probably about myself, too LIKE. Nba fancy to
get off social, media and once we hit like the
middle Of, august we gotta take a break because the
discourse gets so bad every single. Time but, YEAH i
hope he plays AND i hope for some reason he looks.
Speaker 1: Fantastic but this just sucks because it kind of feels
like you could have argued.
Speaker 2: That oh it feels like if The thunder would have
won and Tires alburn was, healthy they're up three to,
two they're The, Thunder they've had a great.
Speaker 1: Season the feeling might be that it's.
Speaker 2: Over but If Tyres haliburn Isn't Tyres, haliburton you're you're
gonna feel like it's over. Anyway, oh you're Fucked, yeah
so looking ahead specifically two game, six what are what
are you looking for or watching?
Speaker 4: For, yeah so in game, FIVE i thought The thunder
came out with a sense of urgency that we didn't
see In indiana over at games three and. Four you,
KNOW i think they played a little bit passive in
those two, games and here in game, five it felt
like everything they, did every action they, initiated was just
sort of sped, Up, Like, okay WHEN i listen to,
PODCASTS i never listened to like one point zero. Speed
i'm always at like two point five or. Something that
felt like that was what The thunder did in game.
Five they were, Like, okay everything we need to, do
we still need to do it in the same manner
that we do. It we have to have the same
sense of caution and carefulness and. Whatever we just have
to do it, Quicker like our execution levels have to be,
quicker they have to be more, Determined like we have
to just get from POINT a to POINT b in
much faster fashion THAT i want to see in game,
six because if they come out and are just overwhelming
you with, speed with, athleticism with shot, making that is
the best possible start you can get to WHAT i
would call a championship. Game that is like you lay the,
foundation you show your opponent. Immediately we're out for business
and we are locked, in we are. Intuned we are
absolutely the kings of this, court unless you can prove.
Speaker 2: Otherwise the pacing's a big thing with, them which is
also just sort of like if you don't Have Tyre's,
halbert and that probably gets a little you have to,
McConnell WHICH i think is sort of a godsend in that.
Respect but almost fourteen percent Of indie shots in that
game five came inside four seconds of the shot. Clock,
previously like for the, series The thunder have done like
they've done a good job of Making indie kind of
go through the motions of their. Offense but it's LIKE
i would argue that share is not going to be that.
High it's like Forcing indiana to have to explore more
of its. Offense like when you're looking at even not
just inside four, seconds but inside seven seconds of the shock.
Clock it did feel like a lot of the time
that The pacers were just kind of forced into this
slog and some of some of it sure was probably self,
inflicted but you saw like it was a material change WHEN.
Tj McConnell was just having that stretch where it felt, like,
oh The pacers might really come back.
Speaker 1: And win this thing.
Speaker 2: Again like there was they were playing with that sense
of urgency and finding ways to not BE i don't
like slowed down by The thunder, Right like it wasn't
even just letting The thunder get, set because The thunder
kind of like they're set, before like if they're gonna
full corep, press they're just.
Speaker 1: Set like it's just they.
Speaker 2: They operate in the chaos in the bedlam, anyway so
they're just gonna be. Set there's no such thing as
like an unset defense with okay, see but The indie
was definitely playing with more like pace and urgency at
its peak stretch during that, game AND i think, that,
yeah it's important that they would come out like. That,
yeah the other, thing and it's been a PROBLEM i
think for LIKE i think you look back at this
series and probably, say, oh for two games it's really
been a. PROBLEM i think it Was game one and
Then game five the unforced errors just like on their
part where you're looking at the turnovers and, NO i
don't Think, okay he's gonna, have you, know thirty two
points off turnovers, again but when you're looking at some
of the passes they're, throwing you just gotta be a
little bit. More and also like the thunder excuse, me
The pacers just had some really bad imbounding passes too as,
well which felt uncharacteristic for. Them you have to be more,
mindful like you, know the defense that you're playing, right
and so just like these lofty passes like on these
kickouts or like kind of shoddy entry, passes like there's
just no room for that ainst okay, see and those
are things that you can control Whether Tyres haliburton is, healthy,
hobbled they're not. Playing, yeah plus twenty nine turnovers of
the series for The pacers eighty nine to, sixty which
is just like It's, indy so like you don't expect
it to be that stark and in a, WELL i
don't remember the game one differential, specifically but they DOUBLED
i know THAT okac doubled them up in terms of force.
TURNOVERS okac had eleven And india had twenty two In game,
Five like that's a you, know AND i, think, honestly
when you've kind of been watching these teams. Too this
hasn't been like if we. WOULD i don't remember what
we said at the start of the series because that's
how my brain. Works they live in. Transition it feels
like so much of the time and for so much
of this, series it felt like the transition well hasn't
been there for either, team even when they're playing in
transition where it's just hyper, inefficient and Like indy struggled
with that specifically In game five IS i think they
only had their their transition frequency was for them very,
low and then they just weren't particularly efficient in.
Speaker 1: There they like what did they end up?
Speaker 2: With they're rating in, UH i don't like sixty six
point seven off of live rebounds was their transition rating
in game. Five that's Like i've like not IN ds
and then they're all transition plays per one hundred. Plays
they averaged eighty points per one hundred plays in, transition.
Speaker 1: So the sample was, LIKE i guess.
Speaker 2: SMALL i THINK i saw somewhere that they only had
twenty five like or was it was? Huge it was
something like just absurdly. Low so you have to factor
that in, Too but like those that's your best chance
probably especially If Tyre's haliburton is. Hurt it's just like
kind of catching the. THUNDER i, KNOW i just said
there's no such thing as an Unset Oklahoma city, defense
but like you kind of need to catch them on
their toes. There and okayse was just so for most
Of game, five was just so locked in in that. Respect,
yea do you have anything else that you're looking? For
any players that we should be keeping? EYE i, mean
McConnell thing is, interesting especially If Tyre's haliburton is going to.
Speaker 4: Better, yes a guy who should play. Less if memory serves, right.
Speaker 2: You wanted them to Put Tyre's haliburton on the. Block
SO i make no. Apologies high, posts, sir you said low,
block let's throw it back all the way.
Speaker 4: Down, well you know, what less a greech is not
wanting to play. Mcconin McConnell, more he's been. Phenomenal, Yes,
LOOK i DON'T i want to talk about a player not, McConnell, Though.
Chet If chet is off to like a great start
in game, six and we can kind of bake in
the fact That cha's gonna have you, know the twenty
seven forty two, points and we also know That jadub
has played just a great brain of basketball these past
couple of. Games that's probably the best way for The
thunder to also offensively assert themselves and just to put
the decker in the back of These, pacers Right, like
if check comes out with a quick, twelve you're, like
you're probably as The, pacers you're probably going, fuck, like
what are we gonna do? Here because those are shots
that doesn't have to go through the hands Of set Or,
jalen meaning they're probably gonna stay a little bit more,
uh you, know less fatigued is the. Word i'm looking
for a little bit more, fresh and then when it's
time for those guys to establish, themselves they can so a, quick,
aggressive efficient first quarter For. Chets i'm looking for that.
Speaker 1: The player That i'm gonna be kind of.
Speaker 2: Watching it feels Like Andrew nemhard has hurt The pacers
over the past couple of, games some of his decision
making like contributing to the turnovers and Then Oklahoma city
just going after him. Defensively his role is super hard
and he's had some like higher foul games in this.
Series but that's someone where it's he hasn't provided a
ton of volume for you, offensively like he's taken the
past he took eleven shots in game, one in game,
two five in game, three and then nine to eight
over eachion the last. Two AND i know he's never
been like the most highest volume. Player he's what do
he averaged eight shots on the, Season but it doesn't
feel like he's as involved in the offense than when
he is. INVOLVED i would argue it feels like he's
two involved to where he has six turnovers a six
assists against or?
Speaker 1: No is? It?
Speaker 2: Yeah six assists against eight turnovers over the past two.
Games if you if you expand that to three the
past three, games excuse, me he has No i'm, sorry
that's six assists versus eleven turnovers over the past three.
Games that's just like detrimental levels of. Sloppy and then
you're seeing the it's just so weird because we saw
this with The knicks last year a. LOT i guess
it's just because of his size and like where you're
looking at his maybe a center of, gravity like teams
like that's the one they want to go. After it
feels like more Than Andrew, nemhart more than Aaron Ne.
Smith So it's LIKE I i'm watching him because not
THAT i think that he's necessarily a bell weather for this,
team but they're gonna need him to clean up certain.
THINGS i don't know what he can necessarily clean Up,
Defensively i'm not smart enough to tell him how to
you're gonna guard. Shake they'll just Heux hunter for like
every single minute that he's on the. Floor, BASICALLY i
DON'T i don't know what to tell you to, do
but at least don't like cough up so many possessions
on the offensive.
Speaker 3: End he's missed.
Speaker 4: Twenty three out of forty one, shots he has a
combined thirty turnovers and. Fouls he's playing thirty four, minutes
and he's averaging ten. POINTS i think it's completely fair
to point At andrew Nim hart and say you need
to do, more but more of the right, stuff like
don't turn the ball, over don't fall, relentlessly like just
look like you did earlier in the, Playoffs like remember
how you looked in The milwaukee.
Speaker 3: Series go find.
Speaker 4: That but it's also so much easier said than, done,
right like right what six four six' five along, those
lines and he's got like the jump shot he doesn't
get a great elevation, on it so he has to
be very open to get, it off especially against. This
defense LIKE what i would like for him to do
a little bit more is just get into not like the.
Speaker 3: DEEP paint i think.
Speaker 1: You're, gonna say get not the deep post and Rack, Up.
Speaker 4: NO but i wanted to snake the pig roll a
little bit more and gets to like the foul, line
area because that's a shot he can get off at,
all times and THE shot i. Would trust and also
it's a good place to see how the, defense reacts
like are they going? To COLLAPSE like i don't know
why they would Because It's, andrew nehart but still like if,
THEY do i do trust his playmaking to a point
where he'll swing it into. The corners, so yes more, from,
HIM please i wouldn't hate.
Speaker 2: That either i'm willing to forgive kind of the fouls
on the, defensive end just again because Of the shay of,
it all and the FACT that i think he committed
two shooting Fouls on shay in. Game, Five honestly like,
to me, that's like you, know what that's?
Speaker 1: Not bad like two.
Speaker 2: Shooting fALS you're gonna spend like fifty possessions. Or Whatever,
REGARDING shay i. Get it, so, yeah offensively it's if
you're not gonna, do more, and look he's gonna have to.
Speaker 1: Do More If tyreus aliburton, can't player he's gonna be.
Speaker 2: Super hobbled he just seems to struggle against those defenses
where if like if they're tough to screen and he
can't get that, readied separation it just doesn't seem like
he's necessarily suited to. Handle that and, spoiler alert Like
the thunder just they're very difficult. To screen like there's
just they just have players where, You Know nie smith
can be one of these guys For the pacers and
even sometimes. Them hard it's like if they don't want
to be screen they won't. Be SCREENED but i think
you can, point TO like i don't know six or
seven players On the thunder who are built in the.
Speaker 4: Same vein how can we accept less than ten shots
per Game From Aaron nee smith in?
Speaker 3: This series by, THE way i Mean It's.
Speaker 2: Aaron neice what did he average during the? Regular season
was even at ten shots a game in the?
Speaker 4: REGULAR season i mean here in, THE playoffs i Think
he we've seen enough from him to the POINT where
i wouldn't mind scaling him out a. Little bit i'm
not talking about seventeen, eighteen SHOTS but i would like
to see him just take more shots, generally speaking like
within the flow of. The offense like it seems like
right now he's sort of limiting him, to sell limiting
himself to when he's basically. WIDE open i think he's at,
this point especially With the. Tyrese injury they're, Best shooter
so it would, behoove HIM and i think we'll Behoove
the pacers at large if they make a more concerned
effort in getting him shots with.
Speaker 2: The flow it's just that it FEELS like i wouldn't
be opposed. To that Just so i'm not saying, you're
wrong but that's just not How the pacers. Are Wired
Like pascal siakam leads them in shot attempts per game
in the playoffs at fifteen and so it's just like
they're they live in the chaos on the like it's
controlled chaos for them on the, offensive end and part
of playing within the flow is that those shots get
more evenly distributed a lot of. The time, but yeah
you're looking at because three pointers might be a way
to make up some of the talent Variant if tyresee
is going to be. Not himself so you, know what
also helped this team move on to, Another player Like
If miles turner hitting above, the break three could probably
go a pretty.
Speaker 1: Long way yeah it'd.
Speaker 4: Be. Nice, Yep yeah miles had had a great start to.
THIS series i think defensively he was able to move
chet around. A lot he still tends to, do so
but his offensive performance in these finals is specially over
the past.
Speaker 3: Few games, oh boy. Oh boy.
Speaker 4: Pretty concerned, about that at least in these. These finals
i'm not gonna sit here and say he shouldn't get
a major pay bump in. THE summer i still think
he should based on how he generally has played. This year,
but yeah we need more Out.
Speaker 2: OF miles i was trying to see What, it, wow
okay this is actually it's LOWER than i thought. IT
was i was trying to, see what oh you, know
What the pacers could use fewer.
Speaker 1: OF it i just saw.
Speaker 2: His names what made, me think let's Not Have tony
bradley euro stepping? In transition. Not Ideal andrew nemhart's turnover
rate for the series is eighteen point, four percent AND
when i saw, THE number i came, away, thinking well
that's LOWER than i thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1: Not fair. To him he's, been there one of the
most valuable players.
Speaker 2: Alat year but you kind Of need we've talked about
a bunch, of names but you need something from the
supporting cast where there have been like kind of games
long struggles to shift in, your FAVOR and i think
you look at em hard and you look at maybe
turner on offense is like the two.
Speaker 4: Points there so what you're saying is more Minutes for
Johnny furfy that's what.
Speaker 3: You're saying it's.
Speaker 2: Time to Bust Out johnny Furfey And ben shepherds who
probably play all FORTY so i think he played single
digits In in. Game five you have anything else on
what's been a, ROLLICKING series i, will, say yes.
Speaker 4: It HAS LOOK i, i, think look this is the
final series of this. This year it's been an up
and down. YEAR overall i think some things. HAVE worked
i think some teams. HAVE disappointed i think they're certain
elements in the league that. Should CHANGE but i love
when we finish out a year on a strong note
with a. GOOD finals i thought last year was a
bit of. A disappointment luca came into those finals with,
three injuries he was never himself and it just always
smelt Like the celtics would just Steamroll. The MAVs, this
series there's been a major level, of unpredictability and that's
always such an enormously attractive entity in when it comes
to to a series. Like this so, love it absolutely
love how this series is or this year is going to.
Speaker 2: Wrap up i'm rooting for seven games of it and
we will see.
Speaker 1: What happens until.
Speaker 2: Next Time, mort first can you tell our listeners where
they could find you and all the work that.
Speaker 4: You do you can find me Over, at Yahoo, at
forbes AT the, nba podcast And At busser beatery in case.
Speaker 2: You speak take until, Next time and, AS always i
need to shout out to, the one, the only, the
indelible the player that it's, not legal but they should
sign him and put him on the, roster anyway just so
he gets. A championship Ring Mister Frank HeLa KEINA
Speaker 4: Mm hm