Speaker 1: Dirty hands means clean theology.
Speaker 2: Can you dig it?
Speaker 1: What's going on? All my local guys and gals and
Speaker 1: long distance paths?
Speaker 3: We're back.
Speaker 2: The raspy is bad.
Speaker 3: That's the best I can do. I don't have that deep,
Speaker 3: sultry Ben voice that you know you all love out there.
Speaker 3: But but I think Ben's not with us tonight.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We had some technical difficulties, to say the least. We
Speaker 1: got started like an hour and a half late with
Speaker 1: some technical issues, and he just said, guys, I've had
Speaker 1: a rough day.
Speaker 2: This is all on you.
Speaker 1: I'm hitting the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it was uh Yeah, we're behind schedule a
Speaker 3: little bit, but that's all right. We're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 3: push on through. Sometimes when we have those difficulties, I
Speaker 3: think it's because something's trying to stop you from getting
Speaker 3: some some good nuggets out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a pretty good show for you guys.
Speaker 1: And it was honestly something that we got together pretty
Speaker 1: quick because it's something we've already studied and had some
Speaker 1: notes piled up and was kind of in the holster
Speaker 1: ready to be pulled out with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something that I've always thought was really interesting
Speaker 3: and it goes back to really, I guess more for
Speaker 3: me for high school because I went to a Lutheran
Speaker 3: high school and they had us watch these the Left
Speaker 3: Behind movies. And I'm not talking about the g rated
Speaker 3: Kirk Cameron, which don't get me wrong, I love some
Speaker 3: Kirk Cameron. But if you go back to those seventies
Speaker 3: Left Behind movies, that's the most terrifying thing I've ever
Speaker 3: seen in my life. I mean that was back in
Speaker 3: that where they try to convert you by fear, a
Speaker 3: style of the show because it was those If you've
Speaker 3: never seen those and if if you can find them,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure they're probably out there, so there's probably
Speaker 3: on YouTube or something now. But you know, as far
Speaker 3: as the whole New World Order and everything that goes
Speaker 3: along with the rapture, and it's I mean, it even
Speaker 3: talks about what you know biblically. It talks about people
Speaker 3: losing their heads, and that's quite literally what happens in
Speaker 3: those movies. They have a guillotine out back and if
Speaker 3: you won't renounce Jesus, off with your head. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's terrifying.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, dude.
Speaker 3: It will change you in ways you could be a
Speaker 3: stout believer. But it's just it's it's one person's depiction,
Speaker 3: one person's depiction of what the end days will look like.
Speaker 3: Granted there we're going to get into it a lot here.
Speaker 3: But there's so many different theories and ideas about, uh,
Speaker 3: about you know, the end times and about what's going
Speaker 3: to happen. You know, we hear about the trumpet blast.
Speaker 3: We hear about you know, Jesus coming back down. You know,
Speaker 3: he's coming back the same way he ascended. We hear
Speaker 3: so many different things about this, and the problem is
Speaker 3: is that we're taking these all from the the the
Speaker 3: books of the Bible. You know, mainly i'd say, Daniel,
Speaker 3: there's a little Jeremiah in there, Thessalonians, but but Revelation
Speaker 3: where it's really the it's it's all very prophetic and
Speaker 3: a lot of those things. You know, it's hard because
Speaker 3: when when people read that, oh this is this is prophecy,
Speaker 3: it's prophetic. There's a lot of symbology or you know,
Speaker 3: symbolism here, but then they want to take certain things
Speaker 3: very literal. It's like you can't have your you can't
Speaker 3: have your ice cream and eat it too. It just
Speaker 3: doesn't work. That way. There's so many different layers. So
Speaker 3: if we take you know, if we take some of
Speaker 3: these prophetic books at that face value and we take
Speaker 3: it right there as as either literal or we take
Speaker 3: it as prophetic, you can't really pick and choose.
Speaker 1: And this is something too. It's you know, like hermeneutics,
Speaker 1: you know, let the words say what it says, and
Speaker 1: also put your preconceived notions in your dogma, leave it
Speaker 1: at the door, and just give it an honest study
Speaker 1: and look at it from all angles and just kind
Speaker 1: of see, you know, what makes the most sense, you know,
Speaker 1: and what does the scripture say versus what does man
Speaker 1: say and what you've been taught. And this is another
Speaker 1: subject where I was raised, you know, Baptist, and I
Speaker 1: was raised you know, pre trip and I was taught
Speaker 1: that my entire life. And of course, I mean I
Speaker 1: would lack nothing more than to be out of here
Speaker 1: watching from up above and not be a part of it.
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things, man, when you read
Speaker 1: it and study it, you know, my view on it's
Speaker 1: changed a little bit.
Speaker 3: It has, and I think I think it's important. One thing.
Speaker 3: I think it's important for us to say and I'll
Speaker 3: agree with you one hundred percent. Is that my view
Speaker 3: and my belief on this is going to be different
Speaker 3: than maybe yours, and it's gonna be different than people
Speaker 3: that listen to this too. But I think it's really
Speaker 3: important to dive into it yourself, look at it, really
Speaker 3: read it, really see what it says, because a lot
Speaker 3: of things that have come out of this and our
Speaker 3: ideas of this are something that it's one other person's interpretation.
Speaker 3: We're not taking it straight from the scripture. We're taking
Speaker 3: it from someone saying, hey, this is a seven year tribulation. Hey,
Speaker 3: this is going to happen at the end of this,
Speaker 3: you know, the seventieth week of Daniel. And that's one
Speaker 3: person's interpretation of that scripture that doesn't necessarily give you
Speaker 3: there's not one certain verse that says this is going
Speaker 3: to be seven years. It's interpretation and how people break
Speaker 3: down that seventy years and they go back to Ezekiel,
Speaker 3: another prophetic book, and then they break down and say, well,
Speaker 3: you know, a year is equal to a day, and
Speaker 3: so they break it down from there. So they're going
Speaker 3: back and forth through books, different prophetic books written by
Speaker 3: different people and trying to connect things, and I think
Speaker 3: it's important to try to connect things. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, I really think that you have to look
Speaker 3: at it for yourself, because if we just take everybody's
Speaker 3: word for everything, it's we've seen already and the things
Speaker 3: that we've talked about that it is not always at
Speaker 3: face value. And when we look at the big picture,
Speaker 3: in that divine worldview that we talk about the Divine
Speaker 3: World Council, you see that that view was suppressed for
Speaker 3: hundreds of years. You know, we go back far enough.
Speaker 3: You see the supernatural in the Bible, but that gets
Speaker 3: suppressed because people want to hold the idea that that
Speaker 3: that these angelic beings and other things. You know, we
Speaker 3: talk about Satan all these these these other deities, and
Speaker 3: I lose I use Satan at loose terminology. If you
Speaker 3: haven't listened to the Derek Gilbert episode on the Lucifer
Speaker 3: and Satan, I think that's a pretty good one for
Speaker 3: you to go listen to. But when you look back
Speaker 3: at all these you see that we're taking you know,
Speaker 3: maybe it's early Church Father's interpretation. Maybe it's we're looking
Speaker 3: at John Kelvin, or we're looking at Martin Luther and
Speaker 3: how they changed the viewpoints that we hold and based
Speaker 3: on our denominations or based on what your church ascribes to,
Speaker 3: and we can't all be right.
Speaker 1: Well, before we get any too deeper, let's sorry, back
Speaker 1: it up and we'll go ahead and open up in prayer.
Speaker 2: You got it or my turn?
Speaker 3: I got it all right, Dear Lord, thank you for
Speaker 3: everything you've giving us. Thank you for letting us be
Speaker 3: here tonight. Please help us reach out and reach that
Speaker 3: one person that needs to hear your word, Lord, and
Speaker 3: help us create some kind of conversation or some fire
Speaker 3: that someone really wants to dig into your word and
Speaker 3: really find the truth for themselves. Use your word as
Speaker 3: a way to speak to others, and help us be
Speaker 3: a mouthpiece for you, Lord. And then your name, we pray.
Speaker 2: Amen, Amen. Well, I guess to start off with, if you.
Speaker 1: Were to define rapture, I look that up. You know
Speaker 1: the North American definition, you know, according to some you
Speaker 1: know Millennium teaching is you know, it's the transporting of
Speaker 1: believers to heaven at the second Coming of Christ. You know,
Speaker 1: thousands of Christians gathered outside Rochester and other cities awaiting
Speaker 1: the rapture as an example. And what's crazy. Is this
Speaker 1: is this word derives from the French and medieval Latin raptura,
Speaker 1: which it means seizing, you know, or rapture, the carrying off.
Speaker 1: You know, this was in like the late sixteenth entry,
Speaker 1: and then in English he goes to wrapt you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the root word. But the mentions of it
Speaker 1: were at its highest in the eighteen hundreds, and then
Speaker 1: when you get to eighteen fifty, it slopes down to
Speaker 1: about halfway nineteen ninety, another halfway down. Nineteen fifty it
Speaker 1: was at its all time low, but then it started
Speaker 1: to curve back up around two thousand and you know,
Speaker 1: ten to twenty and fourteen, but it's still nowhere near
Speaker 1: where it was at during the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: But this is I think it's important. Like I said
Speaker 3: that we look at this and we always say that
Speaker 3: from the scriptural context, and once again we're taking a
Speaker 3: person's you know, interpretation, and that's like you guys, taking
Speaker 3: us what we're saying right here as scriptural gold. And
Speaker 3: that's that's not how it is. Our whole thing right
Speaker 3: here is to get you to look into things, is
Speaker 3: get you to question things and to really dive into
Speaker 3: your Bible, let God speak to you, because because if
Speaker 3: you just take one man's word for it, if you
Speaker 3: just listen to one person, say oh, well they got
Speaker 3: it figured out, so I don't have to that's where
Speaker 3: people get lost a lot of times.
Speaker 2: This is just our interpretation.
Speaker 3: This is our interpretation. But at the same time, you
Speaker 3: could and we've looked at a bunch of different people's
Speaker 3: the way that they've portrayed it.
Speaker 1: And formed our own opinion and formed our own opinion.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, you could do the same
Speaker 3: thing and that and and I will say this and this,
Speaker 3: and I don't like to be a spoiler at the
Speaker 3: beginning of an episode, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Have to say it.
Speaker 3: I still say it. Michael Heiser said, this question will
Speaker 3: never be answered until it happens. Michael Heiser said that,
Speaker 3: he said he's looked into this forever and he said
Speaker 3: it's something that can never be answered at face value.
Speaker 2: Well, even Paul said, you know, this is a mystery.
Speaker 3: It is a mystery. And so we're talking this stuff
Speaker 3: is is going to be based on our interpretation of
Speaker 3: the scripture. It's going to be based on and the
Speaker 3: way that we view this and what we read, and
Speaker 3: my opinion changed a lot just by getting into this
Speaker 3: because the same as Justin, I was raised Lutheran, and
Speaker 3: you know, most of the time it's very pre trib
Speaker 3: where you think that we're going to be and maybe
Speaker 3: we should, maybe we should go into the definitions of
Speaker 3: the different ideology of certain people before we get too far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll get there with the different ones. But
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. But do you know where pre
Speaker 1: tribulation theology and dispensationalism came from? The start point?
Speaker 2: I'm listening, okay, And.
Speaker 1: This is a I got this pulled off from. I
Speaker 1: can't remember the source. I looked it up online, but
Speaker 1: it said that this didn't exist before the nineteenth century.
Speaker 1: Around eighteen twenty, you know, was the most common time
Speaker 1: of the conception.
Speaker 2: They believe.
Speaker 1: But it began during a revival in skull Stland a
Speaker 1: teenage girl named McDonald who claimed to have a vision
Speaker 1: of a pre tribulation rapture. And then a reverend, a
Speaker 1: famous one named Darby, happened to be there who he
Speaker 1: really latched on this idea. This man was one of
Speaker 1: the founders of Plymouth Brethren denomination and began to preach
Speaker 1: this theology. Darby took this teaching with him to the
Speaker 1: United States and the founding of the New World. He
Speaker 1: came in contact with the Billy Graham of that day,
Speaker 1: which was Dwight L. Moody, founder of the Moody Bible
Speaker 1: Institute and the Moody Press. Moody became the worldwide distributor
Speaker 1: of this theology. Many novels were written holding to this idea,
Speaker 1: one called Jesus's Coming. Then we have the Schofield Reference Bible.
Speaker 1: This was the first of its kind to have headings
Speaker 1: in the Biblical text. Jesus Predicts the Rapture was a
Speaker 1: famous heading there in Matthew twenty four. They planted these
Speaker 1: beliefs into the Bible.
Speaker 2: So this started with a.
Speaker 1: Vision from a teenage girl in Scotland at a revival.
Speaker 1: You know, this was something that was repeated enough until
Speaker 1: it was believed, and scripture was twisted to fit people's
Speaker 1: preconceived notions. So this all started with a teenage girl
Speaker 1: at a revival in Scotland that said she had a
Speaker 1: vision from an angel of a pre tribulation rapture.
Speaker 3: Once again, like I said, we're taking and it's funny
Speaker 3: if you look back and you can look through even
Speaker 3: people who weren't necessarily Christians at the time, but Josephus
Speaker 3: or Asebius or you go through all these other church fathers,
Speaker 3: and we've adopted so much of their ideologies and just
Speaker 3: made them doctrine. But it's based on their interpretation, and
Speaker 3: we're taking that one person's interpretation to heart if we
Speaker 3: aren't reaching out, praying and praying for that discernment and
Speaker 3: reaching and reaching towards God's word and looking into these things.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying to not take the word of
Speaker 3: some other people to some degree, but you you test
Speaker 3: the spirits, test what you're hearing, Yeah, because you can't
Speaker 3: just take something at face value. If I told you
Speaker 3: the sky was falling today, you're not. You're gonna look
Speaker 3: at me like, eh. But if if Martin Luther said
Speaker 3: this guy you know, or who's a good example, if
Speaker 3: we go back to Tertullian, Tertullian, he said the sky
Speaker 3: is gonna fall in you know, twenty twenty three, everybody
Speaker 3: be like, ooh, now we got to be on the
Speaker 3: edge of our seats, you know, y two k or
Speaker 3: something of the all these different things were you know,
Speaker 3: no stradamis we believe what these you know, not we,
Speaker 3: but people in general have believed a lot of what
Speaker 3: these people say based on just their interpretation of events.
Speaker 3: And it's not it's not unfortunately, it's their interpretation of scripture,
Speaker 3: but there's not something specific that truly says. And it
Speaker 3: is a lot of interpretation, and it's a lot of
Speaker 3: trickle down because you see things that are translated a
Speaker 3: certain way into the Greek and that are translated a
Speaker 3: different way into the Latin. We talked about the Latin
Speaker 3: vulgate and how you were just talking about that with
Speaker 3: the Latin, how that that terminology changed, and it it is,
Speaker 3: it's really unsettling. I guess the more I look at
Speaker 3: how much that mask I think has been pulled over
Speaker 3: a lot of people's eyes because we have just allowed
Speaker 3: and this is a little off point, but that we've
Speaker 3: allowed a lot of these things to change our doctrine.
Speaker 3: And if we look across you know, if we go
Speaker 3: back to the to Jesus talking to Peter and saying
Speaker 3: on this rock, I will build my church. He didn't
Speaker 3: say all my different churches. He didn't say all my
Speaker 3: different denominations. He said my church. We have so many
Speaker 3: differences in our ideologies and our theologies based on the
Speaker 3: fact that we go to a church that we just
Speaker 3: believe that whoever started that denomination, we just felt that
Speaker 3: they were right. But you're not looking into it yourself.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a big problem, and a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff we look into. Don't take what we
Speaker 3: say right at phase value. Don't say, oh, they're right,
Speaker 3: look into it yourself. This is what we saw when
Speaker 3: we looked into it. Our whole point is to get
Speaker 3: you to dig into it yourself.
Speaker 2: Amen. And we mentioned the mystery.
Speaker 1: You know, that's First Corinthians, chapter fifteen, forty nine through
Speaker 1: fifty five.
Speaker 2: Just as we.
Speaker 1: Born, we were born in the image of man of dust,
Speaker 1: we shall also bear the image of Man of heaven.
Speaker 1: I tell you this brother's flesh and blood cannot inherit
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold,
Speaker 1: I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep,
Speaker 1: but we shall all be changed in a moment, in
Speaker 1: the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet, For
Speaker 1: the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable,
Speaker 1: and we shall be changed. For this parishalull body must
Speaker 1: put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put
Speaker 1: on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable and
Speaker 1: the mortal puts on the immortality, then shall come to
Speaker 1: pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up
Speaker 1: in victory and old death. Where is your victory and
Speaker 1: old death? Where is your sting? So you know, just
Speaker 1: like in our intro, you know, it's the glory of
Speaker 1: God to conceal a thing, but the glory of Kings
Speaker 1: to search things out. And that's just that's what we
Speaker 1: are attempting to do here today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what we attempt to do every day before
Speaker 3: we're doing this, and honestly, you should attempt to do
Speaker 3: that every time you're reading your Bible. We talk about
Speaker 3: that in the beginning. You know, it's that the glory
Speaker 3: of God to conceal things and the glory of Kings
Speaker 3: to search things out. And there's you know, I guess
Speaker 3: jumping in, I guess jumping in a little bit to
Speaker 3: the different type of ideologies that a lot of these
Speaker 3: different either denominations or sects of the church have. You know,
Speaker 3: you have your pre trib which is what I was
Speaker 3: raised as you have a mid trib When I say trib,
Speaker 3: I'm saying mid tribulations. So we're talking about the rapture
Speaker 3: during the tribulation, when is it gonna happen. So if
Speaker 3: we say pre trib we're saying before those seven years,
Speaker 3: nothing bad's gonna happen to us. Us believers are taken up,
Speaker 3: and all the bad things are gonna happen after we leave, which,
Speaker 3: like you said, sounds phenomenal. I would love that to happen,
Speaker 3: and it's not outside the realm of possibility, but from
Speaker 3: what I read, and well, we'll get in there further.
Speaker 3: But then you have mid trib which is first three
Speaker 3: and a half years. Once again, we're going off that
Speaker 3: seven years that has been interpreted from from Daniel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the seventy weeks.
Speaker 3: Just seventy weeks, and that's what it's been interpreted from, which,
Speaker 3: once again, I think it's interesting that it's the number
Speaker 3: seven again, which usually just means.
Speaker 2: Completion, means judgment, yes, exactly.
Speaker 3: So the fact that we're sometimes taking the prophetic word
Speaker 3: very literal, and then other times we take the prophetic
Speaker 3: word as just oh, it's just symbolic the seventy nations.
Speaker 3: We're good with the seventy nations as meaning all of them.
Speaker 3: But then when we talk about the seventy weeks, No,
Speaker 3: we're going to break down and do math here because
Speaker 3: we have to figure out. People have a desire to
Speaker 3: know when this is going to happen. They want to know.
Speaker 3: They want to be like, hey, I'm gonna have everything,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have all my ducks in a row when
Speaker 3: that's gonna happen. But the problem is it says he'll
Speaker 3: come like a thief in the night. No one will
Speaker 3: know the day or the hour. And Jesus even said
Speaker 3: I don't even know. Only my father in Heaven knows.
Speaker 1: And see, and that goes back to even being was
Speaker 1: talking about. That was something that he wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, was the the culture of the Jewish people
Speaker 1: and with the marriage contracts, you know how that referred
Speaker 1: back to that. You know, because you took the cup,
Speaker 1: presented it, you took a drink, you presented it to
Speaker 1: the bride. If she accepted, she drank it, then you're
Speaker 1: in covenant together. That's kind of like what we were
Speaker 1: seeing at the Last Supper. But then, uh, the green
Speaker 1: would go away and prepare a place for the woman.
Speaker 1: And he might thought the house was done and he
Speaker 1: was ready to go, but no, he could not go
Speaker 1: till the Father gave the blessing and said now it's time.
Speaker 1: So that was another reference there when Jesus was saying,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, even I don't know, only the
Speaker 1: Father knows the time. So that was like another you know,
Speaker 1: marriage contract, you know, little tidbit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we we obviously keep going through and
Speaker 3: we have the post tribulation idea where you go through
Speaker 3: the whole uh you know, the whole tribulation period, and
Speaker 3: then then your rapture, but you return with Jesus at
Speaker 3: the second coming or read about that time. And then
Speaker 3: it says there's there's also well there's also the pre
Speaker 3: wrath notion where and like you said earlier, we talked
Speaker 3: about this a little bit before. That kinda to some
Speaker 3: degree coincides with the with the mid tribulation. However, pre
Speaker 3: wrath is and there's some some references to to the
Speaker 3: the time of Jacob's trouble, and I think that's back
Speaker 3: in Jeremiah, if I'm correct, I have that verse or
Speaker 3: it says alas this is this is Jeremiah thirty seventh
Speaker 3: through nine is alas that day is so great there
Speaker 3: is none like it. It will be a time of
Speaker 3: distress for Jacob, yet he shall be saved out of it,
Speaker 3: and it shall come to pass in that day, declares
Speaker 3: the Lord of Hosts, that I will break his yoke
Speaker 3: from off your neck, and I will burst your bonds.
Speaker 3: And foreigners will no more make a servant of him,
Speaker 3: but they shall serve the Lord their god, and David
Speaker 3: their king, whom I will raise up for them. So
Speaker 3: talking about that, that that final judgment, that pre wrath.
Speaker 3: So when we talk about that, we're saying it's after
Speaker 3: that midway section, because the beginning of it is is
Speaker 3: is the beginning of that section will be more that
Speaker 3: Satan's wrath right where where that's being loosed on us,
Speaker 3: and then God's wrath is the ultimate judgment at the end. Bold, Yes, exactly,
Speaker 3: And that's what anybody who's pre wrath believes it will
Speaker 3: be taken before God's wrath is poured out on everybody.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of the four main ideologies. You can
Speaker 3: break them down into three with some subsets if you
Speaker 3: wanted to, but that's that's kind of where most people
Speaker 3: in the in the the church especially fall uh. And
Speaker 3: each one there's I mean, there's reasons why people believe
Speaker 3: each one I mean, and there I mean, there's there's
Speaker 3: scripture that, depending on your interpretation, can back up your idea.
Speaker 3: And like I said, there's no way to tell for
Speaker 3: sure what's gonna happen. And believe me, I sure hope
Speaker 3: it's pre trib But the more I look into it
Speaker 3: personally that that's a little it depends a lot on interpretation.
Speaker 1: Well, let's just go through and break them down a
Speaker 1: little bit. But before we get that, I guess for
Speaker 1: those that are not familiar, like to the two main
Speaker 1: verses that people pulls reference for the rapture, one of
Speaker 1: the first Thessalonians, chapter four, verse sixteen through seventeen says,
Speaker 1: for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a
Speaker 1: shout and a voice of an archangel with the trumpet
Speaker 1: of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Speaker 1: Then we who are alive and remain shall be called
Speaker 1: up together with him in the clouds to meet the
Speaker 1: Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be
Speaker 1: with the Lord. And then Matthew twenty four, verse thirty one.
Speaker 1: And he will send his angel with a great sound
Speaker 1: of a trumpet, and they will gather together his elect
Speaker 1: from the four winds, and one end of heaven to
Speaker 1: the other. For the parishable must claw himself with the
Speaker 1: n parishful, and for the mortal with the immortality. Then
Speaker 1: the perishable has been off with the imperishable, and the
Speaker 1: mortal with the immortality, then saying what is written shall come.
Speaker 1: So it's basically like the Corinthians verse that we mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier with Paul talking about the mystery. You know, but
Speaker 1: one thing I asked before we get into the breaking down.
Speaker 1: I thought this was, you know, like my little sense
Speaker 1: of humor kicking in, brace yourselves. But you know, I asked,
Speaker 1: you know, well, how many times does Jesus return? You know,
Speaker 1: we see him returning again to defeat Satan in Revelation
Speaker 1: nineteen in verse twenty one. You know, he said he
Speaker 1: would return to save those who believe and follow after
Speaker 1: him and judge those that who do not. You know,
Speaker 1: So to me, you know, it's like some people call
Speaker 1: the the Yo Yo gang, you know, or like us Southerners,
Speaker 1: we like to fish. So you know, you can talk
Speaker 1: like a bobber. He's like a barber in a pond,
Speaker 1: you know, like Morgan Wallen going up.
Speaker 2: Down, upwn up down. Oh, come on, that's funny.
Speaker 3: Where it's well else said, well said, no, it's that's
Speaker 3: that right there. Makes a big difference if you look
Speaker 3: at the the scripture in the wave of when when
Speaker 3: he'll return, like what is truly the second coming? And
Speaker 3: when is the second coming? So that changes a lot
Speaker 3: based on you know, the scripture you just read. But
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting too. At the end of that
Speaker 3: scripture said that you'll be drawn up with him, but
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a term of the way. Finish that
Speaker 3: verse again, because it's a it's a definition of finality.
Speaker 3: When you're there, you're there like that, you don't come back, right,
Speaker 3: So when when we're drawn up, you're not coming back.
Speaker 3: And we just talked about that a little bit with
Speaker 3: the let so go ahead. You can read that again.
Speaker 1: See yeah, in the very last scenes it says, and
Speaker 1: thus we shall always be with the.
Speaker 3: Lord, So we're when we go with him, we're never
Speaker 3: devoid of him again. We're with him for eternity. At
Speaker 3: that point, I guess the argument could be made that
Speaker 3: you know, he comes back or he when he does
Speaker 3: come down, then he is you know, we're part of
Speaker 3: his army at the end. So, like I said, it
Speaker 3: comes down a lot to interpretation.
Speaker 1: But with some people, like when you get to you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, pre trib you know, and
Speaker 1: you discussed that pretty well. You know that before the
Speaker 1: seven year tribulation. You know, God's people are withdrawn. One
Speaker 1: verse that I see a lot of people like to
Speaker 1: go to is Revelation, chapter three and verse ten. Because
Speaker 1: you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will
Speaker 1: keep you from the hour of trial that is coming
Speaker 1: on the whole world to try those that dwell on
Speaker 1: the earth. You know my opinion with that. You know,
Speaker 1: like I said, this is all interpretation.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: You know, anybody tells you they got it figured out,
Speaker 1: run because they don't that if they're being honest with you. You know, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is what I read. I'm gonna read it to you.
Speaker 1: This is what it says, and this is my interpretation.
Speaker 1: That's most honest anybody can be about it. And if
Speaker 1: anybody says they got it all figured out, God's told
Speaker 1: them everything.
Speaker 2: Run.
Speaker 1: But this verse in Revelation you know tells us that
Speaker 1: you know we will not have to stand trial at
Speaker 1: the Great White Throne judgment. You know that Jesus is
Speaker 1: are covering in our righteousness, so we don't have to
Speaker 1: answer for all of our wrongdoing, you know, because we
Speaker 1: are all forgiven. And like I stayed before, that's my opinion,
Speaker 1: because it says, you know, I will keep you from
Speaker 1: the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world,
Speaker 1: you know, So you know my opinion the Great White
Speaker 1: Throne judgment. As as believers, we don't have to stand
Speaker 1: in judgment and in trial because you know our sins
Speaker 1: are forgiven, you know, Isaiah forty three twenty five. I
Speaker 1: am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake,
Speaker 1: And I will not remember your sins anymore Hebrews ten seventeen.
Speaker 1: I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds
Speaker 1: Psalms one O three twelve. As far as the east
Speaker 1: is from the west, so far does he remove our
Speaker 1: transgressions from us? And then last one I gods Hebrew
Speaker 1: eight twelve, and I will forgive their wickedness, and I
Speaker 1: will never again remember their sins. You're not going to
Speaker 1: stand trial. I mean, that's how I interpret those verses.
Speaker 3: No, to me, that makes it makes sense. I see it.
Speaker 3: I see it very similar that way. You know, it
Speaker 3: says that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
Speaker 3: But those of us who have.
Speaker 2: Already willingly bowed willingly by, you.
Speaker 3: Know, have already made that commitment to God, have said, hey, Jesus,
Speaker 3: you're our salvation. We've made that commitment. We've done that,
Speaker 3: that we have professed that he is Lord. After that,
Speaker 3: who's left? And that's what that's really what our job
Speaker 3: here on earth is is to try to get as
Speaker 3: many people as I should say this in a different way,
Speaker 3: to get as few people to have to stand in
Speaker 3: front of that white throne of judgment as possible. So
Speaker 3: I do the other part that I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people. And this is where that Left Behind movie
Speaker 3: really kind of hits me, because you see the the
Speaker 3: when we look at it is Matthew twenty four especially.
Speaker 3: You see a lot in Matthew twenty four And a
Speaker 3: part that it really talks to me is if we
Speaker 3: go through and we look at Matthew twenty four four,
Speaker 3: and it's talking about Jesus, answer them and says, see
Speaker 3: that no one leads you astray, for many will come
Speaker 3: in my name saying I am the Christ, and they
Speaker 3: will lead many astray. So this is Jesus talking that
Speaker 3: there are gonna be people coming. They're gonna say these things,
Speaker 3: you know, going forward, and you.
Speaker 4: Will hear of wars and rumors of wars.
Speaker 3: And this is this next part is I think the
Speaker 3: really important part. And I've said this before. Why do
Speaker 3: we have to whisper, because I think it's important.
Speaker 1: We're keeping this a sacred no.
Speaker 3: But it's gonna get louder in a minute.
Speaker 4: It says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars.
Speaker 4: See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place.
Speaker 4: Think about that, everybody you know with this, with the
Speaker 4: way the world's changing and the way the things are
Speaker 4: going on around us, we always say, and this is
Speaker 4: not even to say that this is happening right now.
Speaker 4: We don't know the day or the hour, but everybody
Speaker 4: is so concerned with the way the world's changing, with
Speaker 4: the things that are going on around us, with the
Speaker 4: evil that we see all around us. And it says,
Speaker 4: do not be alarmed. Says see that you are not alarmed,
Speaker 4: for this must take place.
Speaker 3: But the end is not yet. For nation will rise
Speaker 3: against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be
Speaker 3: famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the
Speaker 3: beginning of the birth pains. I like that kind of analogy.
Speaker 3: They are talking about that as well. I think that's
Speaker 3: pretty interesting. It says, then they will deliver you up
Speaker 3: to tribulation and put you to the death, and you
Speaker 3: will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Speaker 3: So think about this we're talking about. Jesus is talking
Speaker 3: to the disciples at the time, and they they believe
Speaker 3: when he says they're coming, he's coming soon, that it's
Speaker 3: happening right, you know, it's going to be next week,
Speaker 3: maybe soon, soon, soon as soon, you know. They it's
Speaker 3: still one of those things where they don't a little
Speaker 3: bit of that spiritual blindness that we all have to
Speaker 3: some degree where we can't totally understand the prophecy of
Speaker 3: God and we're not really supposed to understand everything, because
Speaker 3: even in Daniel it said, you know, lock these words
Speaker 3: up until the time is ready, you know, until the
Speaker 3: time is right. So and that's you know, a lot
Speaker 3: what we're talking about here, when we talk about the
Speaker 3: seventy weeks, all that stuff was meant to be locked
Speaker 3: away until a certain time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the enemies reading these battle plans too exactly.
Speaker 3: And let me tell you this, they're smarter than we are.
Speaker 3: They've been around for thousands of years, you know, the Satan,
Speaker 3: the the you know these other evil forces, everything that
Speaker 3: we talk about. They've been here longer than us. They're smarternus.
Speaker 3: We have no chance to gets them without God at all.
Speaker 3: But so and then he's saying that that they're going
Speaker 3: to suffer, you know, that tribulation, to be put to
Speaker 3: the death. You'll be hated by all for my Name's sake.
Speaker 3: But then many will fall away and betray one another
Speaker 3: and hate one another, for many false prophets will arise
Speaker 3: and lead many astray, and because lawlessness will be increased,
Speaker 3: for the love of many will grow cold. But the
Speaker 3: one who endures to the end.
Speaker 2: Do you hear what I say, those who endure to
Speaker 2: the what.
Speaker 3: No, didn't say? I think it says the end will
Speaker 3: be saved, and the Gospel of the Kingdom will be
Speaker 3: proclaimed through the whole world as a testimony to all
Speaker 3: the nations, and then the end will come that to
Speaker 3: me blows me away. Just so we go down a
Speaker 3: little further. If I go down to here thirty seven,
Speaker 3: I jump too far. I have more. For as were
Speaker 3: the days of Noah, so will be the coming of
Speaker 3: the Son of Man. The coming not one of ten comings,
Speaker 3: not one of It's the coming. Right we talk about
Speaker 3: the number, the coming and the son of Man. For
Speaker 3: in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking,
Speaker 3: marrying and giving in marriage until the day Noah entered
Speaker 3: the ark, unaware that the flood came and swept them
Speaker 3: all the way. So will be in the coming of
Speaker 3: the Son of Man. Then two men will be in
Speaker 3: the field, one will be taken and one left. Two
Speaker 3: women will be grinding at the flow at the mill.
Speaker 3: One will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake,
Speaker 3: for you do not know on what day your Lord
Speaker 3: is coming. But know this that if the master of
Speaker 3: the house had known what part of the night the
Speaker 3: thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and not
Speaker 3: have let his house be broken into. Therefore, you must
Speaker 3: also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming
Speaker 3: in an hour that you do not expect. Who then
Speaker 3: is faithful? And who then is the faithful and wise servant,
Speaker 3: who the master has set over his household to give
Speaker 3: them their food at the proper time. Bless the servant,
Speaker 3: whom his master will find doing when he comes, truly,
Speaker 3: I say to you, he will set him over all
Speaker 3: his possessions. But the wicked servant will say to himself,
Speaker 3: my master is delayed, and begin to beat his fellow servants,
Speaker 3: and eat and drinks I'm sorry, and eats and drinks
Speaker 3: the drunkards. The master of the servant will come out
Speaker 3: a day when he does not expect him, at an
Speaker 3: hour that he does not know, and he will cut
Speaker 3: him to pieces and put him with the hypocrites in
Speaker 3: a place where they'll be weeping and gnashing at teeth.
Speaker 3: I know it's a mouthful, but that Matthew twenty four
Speaker 3: is where a lot of this jargon comes from.
Speaker 2: And who's the master of the house.
Speaker 3: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: See my interpretation. Do you like that my interpretation?
Speaker 1: I think if you talk about Satan, because it said,
Speaker 1: you know that Satan is the ruler of this world.
Speaker 2: That's what Jesus says.
Speaker 1: Right, He's the bad tenant, and it said that, you know,
Speaker 1: if he would have known when it was, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have allowed his house to be broken into, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's just something that kind of came to me
Speaker 1: as you just reading that there.
Speaker 3: I think, I mean, I see that, I could see it.
Speaker 3: I could see it both ways depending on how you
Speaker 3: look at it. But that makes I mean, that makes
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. It makes sense. But I think it's
Speaker 3: so important to understand. What it's saying is that no
Speaker 3: one knows a day or the hour that Jesus coming back.
Speaker 3: No one does. And it says that we all must
Speaker 3: be ready. It doesn't say those who are left behind
Speaker 3: must be ready. It doesn't say that you know, once
Speaker 3: again my interpretation, but it says that no one knows
Speaker 3: the day or the hour, so be ready because when
Speaker 3: the Lord comes back, you know, we need to always
Speaker 3: we need to always believe that it could happen in
Speaker 3: the next ten minutes if you wait and you say, well,
Speaker 3: And that's I think why a lot of people really,
Speaker 3: really really try to take this literal and try to
Speaker 3: break this down and try to say, Okay, it's seven years. Okay,
Speaker 3: we are at the seventieth week of Daniel. We are
Speaker 3: at this juncture. So they want something concrete. They want
Speaker 3: something because then I can go do whatever I want until,
Speaker 3: you know, I can get ready, you know, ten minutes
Speaker 3: before and then I'll be good with God.
Speaker 1: How much time do I got to kil exactly?
Speaker 3: And I think that's the problem. I don't think that
Speaker 3: when this happens, that time that he comes.
Speaker 1: There ain't gonna be no time for you to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I need to get my crap together.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: No, you witn't ready.
Speaker 1: Man, you missed the dinner, you missed the train.
Speaker 3: D percent.
Speaker 1: But going off what you used to talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: you know those who endure to the end, you know,
Speaker 1: and this was going you know, to the you know,
Speaker 1: the mid tribulation, you know, versus that I have here,
Speaker 1: the kind of you know that, in my opinion, you know,
Speaker 1: busts that up. You know one Corinthians fifteen fifty one
Speaker 1: talks about the last trumpet we shall be changed into
Speaker 1: glorified bodies. You know, people that hold this mid tribulation view,
Speaker 1: you know, they see that as the seventh trumpet. But
Speaker 1: you know Revelation eleven, you know, this is right before
Speaker 1: the bowls of wrath are poured out. But this isn't
Speaker 1: the last trumpet nothing. You know that the scripture talks about.
Speaker 1: The final trumpet is when Christ returns, we get our
Speaker 1: glorified bodies and the lawless one is defeated. You know,
Speaker 1: for this belief to hold true the mid trib we
Speaker 1: would have to have three comings, which is just not
Speaker 1: scripturally based.
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2: So you're ready to look get post tribulation.
Speaker 3: We already think we already started. Yeah, I think we've
Speaker 3: we've played our hand a little bit. I think we uh,
Speaker 3: I think we line up and to be honest, when
Speaker 3: we do these things, we research on our own. We
Speaker 3: don't share notes ahead of time. We look into these
Speaker 3: things because we want to have a conversation. We want
Speaker 3: to look at this from our point of view and
Speaker 3: and really you know, delve into uh what we you know,
Speaker 3: our interpretations.
Speaker 2: And just organic conversation.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 3: And the fact is when we line up, which actually
Speaker 3: isn't always because we usually have a similar idea, but
Speaker 3: we have different you know, spins on certain things, and
Speaker 3: that's okay, and it's always going to be that way.
Speaker 3: Yet you're gonna have that with anybody and a lot
Speaker 3: of these things. You got to think about this. The
Speaker 3: rapture is a non salvation issue. Yes, if you're right
Speaker 3: with God, it doesn't matter when it happens. Going through
Speaker 3: seven years of tribulation would not be fun, yes, but
Speaker 3: you know what you think about what the disciples went through,
Speaker 3: then you know they were you know, all with the
Speaker 3: exception of John, we're all murdered in one way or
Speaker 3: another in the name of Jesus. And you know it
Speaker 3: plainly talks about that from that you know, that time period.
Speaker 3: But I do believe and we we always say, you know,
Speaker 3: read this from the eyes of the time, from the
Speaker 3: people at that time. You know, you have to understand
Speaker 3: this was written, you know, the first century, right, This
Speaker 3: stuff is all written, you know, around the time, probably
Speaker 3: around somewhere between what thirty and seventy a d. Somewhere
Speaker 3: in that range. You know, after Jesus. We're talking about
Speaker 3: most of the Gospels right around that time would have
Speaker 3: been written. You have to look at it from their
Speaker 3: point of view. But that is not to say that
Speaker 3: there isn't especially when you look at a lot of
Speaker 3: these prophetic things that these are talking about us in
Speaker 3: the future as well, and it does put it in
Speaker 3: a small box to say, oh, it's gonna happen to us,
Speaker 3: it's gonna happen right now. But that right there is
Speaker 3: the mentality you have to have because no one knows
Speaker 3: the day or the hour. We have to treat it
Speaker 3: like it's going to happen tomorrow. We have to treat
Speaker 3: it because regardless of being raptured now, three and a
Speaker 3: half years from now, or you know, at the coming
Speaker 3: of Jesus, I want to be there and I think
Speaker 3: that's the most important thing. So once again, justin said it,
Speaker 3: I've said it. These are our interpretations. This is not gospel,
Speaker 3: this is not gold, this is just our interpretations. I
Speaker 3: want everybody to go and look into these things themselves,
Speaker 3: you know, send us some questions back, send us your
Speaker 3: ideas back, because I'd love to hear them. And maybe
Speaker 3: you sway my idea a little bit by me looking
Speaker 3: into some different references that you give us too. But sorry,
Speaker 3: that's a little side And note. I just think it's
Speaker 3: really important that we really look at this and really
Speaker 3: understand that these are you know, the way that this
Speaker 3: is interpreted by us.
Speaker 1: And see with me, you know, after doing my studying
Speaker 1: and stuff. You know, I'm I kind of fall into
Speaker 1: the you know, the post tribulation camp.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You know, people in this camp, you know, they believe that.
Speaker 1: You know, you'll have to endure the wrath of God,
Speaker 1: but you'll be protected and marked with the seal of God,
Speaker 1: you know. And at the end, Christ will return the
Speaker 1: dead and him shall rise first, you know, those alive,
Speaker 1: get their glorified bodies, meet Him in the air, come
Speaker 1: back down in a triumphant basically parade, and destroy the
Speaker 1: lawless one. But I wrote down some examples that show
Speaker 1: that believers will have to go through tribulation, you know,
Speaker 1: John sixteen thirty three. I have told you these things
Speaker 1: so that in me you may have peace. In this
Speaker 1: world you will have trouble, But take heart, I have
Speaker 1: overcome the world Revelation seven fourteen. These are the ones
Speaker 1: who have come out of the Great Tribulation Revelation three ten.
Speaker 1: Since you have kept my commandments and have endured patiently,
Speaker 1: I will also keep you from the hour of trial
Speaker 1: that is coming on to test the world. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked about that, the trial, the Great White Throne
Speaker 1: judgment Revelation twenty two twelve. Look, I am coming soon,
Speaker 1: and my reward is coming with me, and I will
Speaker 1: give to each person according to what they have done,
Speaker 1: you know, their works for those who rejected Jesus, as
Speaker 1: they're covering in righteousness. This is the white throne judgment
Speaker 1: that is referenced in Revelation three. In my opinion, Matthew
Speaker 1: twenty five thirty two, all the nations will be gathered
Speaker 1: before for him, and he will separate the people one
Speaker 1: from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Speaker 1: You know, we all go at the same time, but
Speaker 1: we're set apart for the trial because Jesus is our
Speaker 1: attorney and we're acquitted. And the last one I got
Speaker 1: a Revelation nine four. This is the fifth trumpet.
Speaker 2: You know, hurt not the earth.
Speaker 1: Neither the sea, nor the trees till we have sealed
Speaker 1: the servants of our God in their foreheads. You know,
Speaker 1: if we're raptured out, why do we need a mark
Speaker 1: of protection?
Speaker 3: All right? It makes sense. I have a little different
Speaker 3: idea on the seal of God and who that you know,
Speaker 3: when it talks about the elect in a few different areas,
Speaker 3: and this is a different whole rabbit trail that we
Speaker 3: can go on another time. But I firmly believe that
Speaker 3: that's the Jewish people, that's the remnant of the Jewish people.
Speaker 3: And even potentially and if we could get into that
Speaker 3: other time, but in certain areas where God is still
Speaker 3: maintaining his covenant with the Jewish nation that he made,
Speaker 3: you know, back through Eve all the way through Abraham,
Speaker 3: over and over again. And we talk about Jacob, and
Speaker 3: even as I said before, you don't talk about Jacob's
Speaker 3: trouble and things of that nature. Where I believe that
Speaker 3: that's God's people. Actually I even had a point part
Speaker 3: of that here if we look at and that's in
Speaker 3: Matthew twenty four as well, twenty nine through thirty. Once
Speaker 3: as immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun
Speaker 3: will be darken and the moon will not give up
Speaker 3: its light. The stars will fall from heaven, and the
Speaker 3: powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear
Speaker 3: in heaven the sign of the Son of Man. And
Speaker 3: all the tribes of the earth which you brought this up,
Speaker 3: well mourn, and they will see the Son of the
Speaker 3: Man coming into clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Speaker 3: He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet
Speaker 3: call and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
Speaker 3: from one end of heaven to the other. So when
Speaker 3: it says his elect I think it's pretty interesting because
Speaker 3: we talked about the four winds, right. I think that's
Speaker 3: part of when we go back into the once again,
Speaker 3: I apologize way off topic, but when we go back
Speaker 3: into the idea of the ten lost tribes that were
Speaker 3: scattered one hundred and forty four thousands, So those ten
Speaker 3: lost tribes that were scattered, and that's when Jesus used Pentecost,
Speaker 3: when those lost tribes and Jews come to Jerusalem for
Speaker 3: that festival and he's spreading his word out to the nation.
Speaker 3: That's kind of the first part of this. But I
Speaker 3: believe that those one hundred and forty four thousand, those
Speaker 3: are his elect the ones that were scattered from the
Speaker 3: by the four winds he's bringing back together. Is his
Speaker 3: elect that are going to be the one hundred and
Speaker 3: forty four thousand that are marked with the Seal of
Speaker 3: God that are going to be his witnesses at the end.
Speaker 3: And that's that's him following through on his covenant that
Speaker 3: he has with with you know, all the way through Abraham,
Speaker 3: all the way down the line, you know, through Jacob,
Speaker 3: and he talks about that cop I mean, if you
Speaker 3: go back through ReGenesis, read Exodus, going keep going down
Speaker 3: that line and see how many times God ess re
Speaker 3: establishes his covenant with the Israelites. It's it's every five minutes.
Speaker 2: I mean, likes the Book of Enoch.
Speaker 1: You know, it says, you know, blissed be the righteous
Speaker 1: and then the elect. You know, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: separation there, and I like how even I think it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ryan Peterson was talking on his show one time, and
Speaker 1: he was talking about how he talks about, you know,
Speaker 1: the temple coming back and the sacrifice is coming back
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: it was his interpretation that, you know, the Jewish people
Speaker 1: that rejected the Messiah, that still practiced the laws and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, that's for them because they
Speaker 1: didn't accept the free gift of free gift of salvation.
Speaker 1: So therefore they have to sacrifice and do all these things.
Speaker 1: So that's you know, the he said, that's why he
Speaker 1: thanks one hundred and forty four thousand are left basically
Speaker 1: behind because they're the ones that has to lead the
Speaker 1: people that rejected Jesus back to the law.
Speaker 2: Kind of.
Speaker 3: I agree, but I also say that I think that
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty four thousand, once again, looking in revelation,
Speaker 3: looking at things when we talk about even Daniel, that
Speaker 3: these numbers are symbolic. I don't think the one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty four thousand is literally one hundred and forty
Speaker 3: four thousand people, you know, because it says it's twelve
Speaker 3: thousand from each of the tribes, right, each of the
Speaker 3: tribes of Israel. So once again pointing to the Jews
Speaker 3: or the Israelites, I guess, and that point but the
Speaker 3: people that he had the covenant with. So if we
Speaker 3: look at this one hundred and forty four thousand saying
Speaker 3: twelve thousand from each tribe, firmly believe that that is
Speaker 3: talking about the Jewish people and that they are that's
Speaker 3: him following through saying that that He has not forgotten
Speaker 3: his people. Paul goes through that very plainly. I think
Speaker 3: it's it's either an axe or romans. I'd have to
Speaker 3: pull that up. But he goes through that very plainly,
Speaker 3: saying that that God has not forgot his people and
Speaker 3: how great will it be when they come back and
Speaker 3: all there's just so much you know, God has not
Speaker 3: forgot his covenant with them. There's so much there pointing
Speaker 3: to the Jewish people, the Israelites being there at the
Speaker 3: end and potentially being that. And once again, let'll say
Speaker 3: it again, this is going to be our new lowercase G.
Speaker 3: God's thing. My interpretation is going to be that that
Speaker 3: is the Jewish people and God keeping his covenant with them.
Speaker 1: Well, backing up to the you know, the whole rapture deal.
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned Matthew twenty four of the stars
Speaker 1: and the heavens, you know, and the judgment there. Uh
Speaker 1: when you back up just before that with a lot
Speaker 1: of people miss you know, is that Jesus himself said,
Speaker 1: immediately after the tribulation of those days, shall the sun
Speaker 1: be dark in the moon not give off her light?
Speaker 1: And all these things, you know, and Revelation mentions the
Speaker 1: opening of seven seals, you know, each one's a judgment,
Speaker 1: the judgment of the sun, the moon. You know, this
Speaker 1: all happens at the opening of the sixth seal, So
Speaker 1: we're still not at the end, you know, he says,
Speaker 1: and behold when he had opened the sixth seal, and
Speaker 1: low there was a great earthquake, and the sun became
Speaker 1: like a sackcloth of hair, and the moon became his blood,
Speaker 1: and the stars of heaven.
Speaker 2: Fell into the earth.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's the Revelation chapter six, verse twelve and thirteen. Those
Speaker 1: alive in Christ will rise to meet him in the air,
Speaker 1: and the dead in him shall rise first at the
Speaker 1: last trumpet the seventh seal. Remember Jesus said in Matthew
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen nine after the tribulation, the rapture, you know,
Speaker 1: is post tribulation and pre wrath, and the nations are angry,
Speaker 1: and thy wrath has come.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's Revelation eleven and eighteen. But what's cool is I'll
Speaker 1: usually always find the little Greek things, you know, the
Speaker 1: word you know, meet and you know, if you notice
Speaker 1: I'd done a you know, little air quote there at
Speaker 1: the meat. This is only referenced twice in the New
Speaker 1: Testament Second Thessalonians, Chapter one and chapter two. The context
Speaker 1: of the two chapters make two coming is very difficult.
Speaker 1: He describes the coming. He's giving relief to the believers,
Speaker 1: but at the same time affliction to the non believers.
Speaker 1: You know, Paul says these two things happen when the
Speaker 1: Lord is revealed from heaven UH Chapter two and verse one,
Speaker 1: concerning the coming of the Lord and us being gathered
Speaker 1: together to meet him. You know, we ask you brothers
Speaker 1: not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed at
Speaker 1: the spirit or spoken word or letters seeming to be
Speaker 1: from us to the effect that the Lord has come already.
Speaker 1: So someone had already told that the day of the
Speaker 1: Lord had already come, obviously, So how easy would it
Speaker 1: have been for Paul to refute that by simply saying
Speaker 1: that can't be I'm still here if the rapture had
Speaker 1: taken place. He says that day cannot come unless the
Speaker 1: rebellion comes first. You know where Christ comes to kill
Speaker 1: the lawless one. You know this points to one coming
Speaker 1: not to but fet Thessalonians four sixteen. The word meet
Speaker 1: is used two other times in the New Testament Matthew
Speaker 1: twenty five, verse six, Acts twenty eight fifteen. You know,
Speaker 1: both of these places it is a group of people
Speaker 1: going out to meet someone in accompanying them back to
Speaker 1: the place that they just came out from. So here,
Speaker 1: you know, we are the welcome party and leading a
Speaker 1: parade of his return. It's, you know, the triumphal entry
Speaker 1: that the people got wrong when Jesus in his first
Speaker 1: coming to Jerusalem. Only this time we truly understand who
Speaker 1: he is. I thought that was interesting, you know, that
Speaker 1: only other time that that word meet is used, it's
Speaker 1: to describe basically a party of people going out to
Speaker 1: meet someone and then coming right back to where they
Speaker 1: started from, kind of like a like a parade. So basically,
Speaker 1: you know, with that interpretation, you know, you know, the
Speaker 1: son of Man comes back in the clouds, we go
Speaker 1: up to meet him and get our glorified bodies just
Speaker 1: to either lead him back down or follow him back
Speaker 1: down to to vanquish the lawless.
Speaker 3: Of his army. Yeah, to me, that makes that makes
Speaker 3: the most sense. Still, I think, you know, going through
Speaker 3: this and after kind of really reading it, and I've
Speaker 3: actually read people with a lot of different views on this,
Speaker 3: especially being raised in a in a pre trib type environment,
Speaker 3: it seems to me that that a lot of the
Speaker 3: interpretation is more for comfort. And I hate to say
Speaker 3: it that way, it sounds bad, Yeah, but I feel
Speaker 3: that a lot of people are just you know, we
Speaker 3: talk about that tribulation and and it's it's terrifying, you know,
Speaker 3: talking about the beasts that will come up that will
Speaker 3: you know, have a face of a lion, you know,
Speaker 3: hair was a hair like a woman and sting like
Speaker 3: a scorpion, and men long to die, but death will
Speaker 3: not find them like things like this that mean, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like Revelation thirteen. You know, it says,
Speaker 1: what is it those that are taken captive, and the
Speaker 1: captivity they will go. The ones that are hit with
Speaker 1: the sword, the slain with the sword, they will go.
Speaker 1: You know, it's basically saying that, yeah, you're going to
Speaker 1: have to suffer through man.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know what, this is a part where
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people in our country
Speaker 3: and I'm just as bad as anybody else. I'm not
Speaker 3: pointing fingers at anybody, but what I'm saying in our country,
Speaker 3: we've had it so good. And even right now people
Speaker 3: can say our country is this this or this? We
Speaker 3: have it so good. If we were living in the
Speaker 3: Middle East, or if we were living if we were
Speaker 3: living in Palestine, or we were living in a lot
Speaker 3: of different places around the world, if we were living
Speaker 3: in the Ukraine or the Russian border right now. Think
Speaker 3: about what those people go through. Think about the Jewish
Speaker 3: people through the Holocausts, that they didn't think that was
Speaker 3: the end of days. So when people are worried about
Speaker 3: what's happening right now in our country, people are going
Speaker 3: and suffering so much more than ninety five to ninety
Speaker 3: nine percent of people in our country ever have. And
Speaker 3: there is the torment, the civil war that happens around
Speaker 3: our country, and we only see parts of it. We
Speaker 3: see what our news allows us to see. But there's
Speaker 3: so many things going on around our country that I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: around our world that we'll never know about because it's
Speaker 3: it's out of sight, out of mind. We don't realize
Speaker 3: the struggles that everybody's having around the world that is
Speaker 3: so much greater than anything we've suffered through. And those
Speaker 3: people might think that this is, you know, the trumpets
Speaker 3: already sounded, or you know, the first the first seal
Speaker 3: is broken, or whatever it may be. These things have happened,
Speaker 3: that this is already in progress, and for all I know,
Speaker 3: it could be. But at the same time, we I
Speaker 3: think as a country, take for granted how great we
Speaker 3: have it. You can sit there and say, well, I
Speaker 3: don't have this, or I don't have this. The poor
Speaker 3: of us, the poorest of us have more than a
Speaker 3: lot of people that I've seen when I was in
Speaker 3: China and other people that have been other parts of
Speaker 3: the world. We are so well off, so we don't
Speaker 3: know what tribulation is yet. And we've seen bad things.
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, every one of us has had
Speaker 3: tough things in our life for bad things. We've been
Speaker 3: under spiritual attack or physical attack. But we have no
Speaker 3: idea what true tribulation is. So I feel a lot
Speaker 3: of times that that that pre tribute idea is to
Speaker 3: is is it's a it's.
Speaker 2: A security blanket, exactly what I.
Speaker 3: Was gonna say. It's just that to keep your warm sea.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, I won't have to suffer like that.
Speaker 1: And it ignores and what gets me is it totally
Speaker 1: ignores God's judgment patterns in the past. You know, I
Speaker 1: always tell you study history if you want to you know,
Speaker 1: know what the future holds, because history repeats its nothing's
Speaker 1: doing under the sun exactly, And you know, Matthew twenty
Speaker 1: four says, you know, as it was in the days
Speaker 1: of Noah, they were eating, they were drinking, you know, marrying,
Speaker 1: given into marriage. So I mean they were totally unexpected.
Speaker 1: I mean things were good, obviously, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And their idea of good well, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It was totally unexpected.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But when you look back at all the judgments, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's look back at Noah had no idea it was coming,
Speaker 1: and the wicked were swept away. Who remained the righteous,
Speaker 1: the chosen, Noah and the eight. So then you go
Speaker 1: forward Solomon, Gomorrah. The wicked were swept away, the righteous,
Speaker 1: the chosen were set aside. Right, So then you come
Speaker 1: on down to the plagues of Egypt. Did God pull
Speaker 1: out his people? Why all this stuff was going on?
Speaker 1: Or was they right there in the middle of it
Speaker 1: but protected?
Speaker 3: They suffered through the first few.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that, yeah, they weren't raptured out of there,
Speaker 1: So why would this one be any different?
Speaker 3: That makes sense, It makes sense.
Speaker 1: You know, in the way I see this, you know,
Speaker 1: is when you talk about the left behind, you know,
Speaker 1: don't be left behind. Don't be left behind. To me,
Speaker 1: the way I read it, I want to be the
Speaker 1: one left behind because you know where it talks about
Speaker 1: you know, one one will be in the field and
Speaker 1: one taken away. One woman will be you know, churning grain,
Speaker 1: and one taken away. You know it uses that thing,
Speaker 1: that same terminology. It's like it did in the flood,
Speaker 1: and you know one is taken swept away. You want
Speaker 1: to be the one left behind. Because the way I
Speaker 1: read it, Christ comes down to earth and Heaven comes
Speaker 1: down to earth. I want I want to be here.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be taken out.
Speaker 3: At the very worst. I want to be resurrected at
Speaker 3: that time and be gathered up to them. So ultimately,
Speaker 3: you just need to know where your heart is, where's
Speaker 3: your faith at, and know that it could happen. It
Speaker 3: happened tonight, could happen tomorrow, could happen in one hundred years.
Speaker 3: We don't know. And I know that's very cliche, but
Speaker 3: in this case, you really can't focus and say that
Speaker 3: I have a deadline, I have this, I have that.
Speaker 3: That's not God's intent. God's intent is that you don't know. Therefore,
Speaker 3: live a godly life all the time. Don't pick and
Speaker 3: choose like, oh, it should be coming soon, so now
Speaker 3: I'm going to be good. No, always always be ready.
Speaker 2: That'll be all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard the man?
Speaker 2: Have you all?
Speaker 1: And one thing that I identify with me with that story,
Speaker 1: and I'll say this, I'll end with this. That struck
Speaker 1: me like a whole new way. A few years ago
Speaker 1: when I heard Doug talk about that you know you
Speaker 1: have your already be ready, Well then I thought about
Speaker 1: the people that didn't have their already. It wrote my hoar,
Speaker 1: I want to have my already, but I want to
Speaker 1: have some Make sure you give somebody else. You guys
Speaker 1: keep digging and you come up with your own interpretation.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Dig Bible Podcast. Questions, comments,
Speaker 3: or future episode ideas, we'd love to hear from you
Speaker 3: at the Dig four two three at gmail dot com.
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Speaker 3: you can't lean on a shovel and pray for a whole.
Speaker 3: You gotta dig