1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,279
Speaker 1: All right, welcome to another episode of the Crime Pas.

2
00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:06,799
But BONDI doesn't podcast. Today, we're doing a podcast that

3
00:00:06,879 --> 00:00:09,439
doesn't have anything at all to do about plants, but

4
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,880
it's with a mind that I greatly respect and admire. Uh,

5
00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:18,399
And I'm always interested to listen to the opinions of

6
00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,519
my friend j le Solei, who is half the voice

7
00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:26,519
playing the fucking canceled podcast. He's a writer, he's got

8
00:00:26,519 --> 00:00:31,160
a degree in political anthropology. And yeah, I guess, uh,

9
00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:33,640
I guess film me yeah, fill me in on on

10
00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:34,479
your background.

11
00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

12
00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: Man.

13
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,520
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thanks for having me. Second, we

14
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,200
we could totally talk about the plants if you want.

15
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,799
I'm always done, Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. I

16
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,640
did my master's degree in anthropology and I ended up

17
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,359
Originally I'd wanted to do some work on the rise

18
00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:01,640
of this kind of like online like hardline anti feminism

19
00:01:01,719 --> 00:01:04,680
that was popping up a couple of years back, you know,

20
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,239
And I got in touch with this guy who was

21
00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:12,040
running like a like a pickup artist group in Montreal,

22
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,879
and I wanted to I wanted to just interview him

23
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,000
for some like preliminary research stuff, you know, because I

24
00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:23,920
was interested in why this was popping up so hard

25
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,480
at the time. What was kind of motivating people who

26
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,719
were behind it and so on. Anyways, I got in

27
00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:31,000
touch with this guy and he's like, oh, that group

28
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,560
doesn't exist anymore, the pickup artist group, and oh yeah,

29
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,640
like okay, like what happened to it? And he's like, basically,

30
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,599
we're not these now. And he had converted his pickup

31
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,120
artist group into an alt right organization that was operating

32
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,280
in Montreal. And he was weirdly like open to talking

33
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,480
to me, which is unusual for people in the far right.

34
00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:52,280
They tend to be very skeptical of academics, you know.

35
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,719
So I pushed my supervisor and I was like, I

36
00:01:55,719 --> 00:01:58,120
don't know, this guy seems like he he might talk

37
00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:01,000
to me. And I'm thinking of just and like doing

38
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,719
a kind of political ethnography of his Nazi group. And

39
00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:08,719
my supervisor said, listen, if you can do it and

40
00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:11,039
you feel safe, like go for it, because it's really

41
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,520
rare to be able to get in depth interviews with

42
00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:17,960
this kind of person, let alone like a kind of

43
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,280
ethnographic thing where you're like hanging out with them.

44
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,159
Speaker 1: So I wait, really quick, really quick. The road from

45
00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:28,639
pickup artist to straight up Nazi, like that's it. I

46
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,199
can see that. I guess I can see how that works.

47
00:02:31,479 --> 00:02:33,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, I wrote a whole

48
00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:35,240
thesis about it, if you want to read about how

49
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,000
that works. But yeah, yeah, so I did you know,

50
00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:41,639
I got a haircut, I got a bunch of clothes

51
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,240
that covered my tattoos, and I hung out with them

52
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,319
for like a year, and so it pretended to be

53
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,840
like much more sympathetic to their cause than I actually was.

54
00:02:49,879 --> 00:02:51,879
And then yeah, I wrote my thesis about that. It

55
00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:52,680
was a fucking trip.

56
00:02:53,439 --> 00:02:55,719
Speaker 1: God, I bet I bet man the Uh yeah, I

57
00:02:56,039 --> 00:02:58,080
actually I would love to read that, but I I

58
00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:00,199
the reason I wrote out the reason I wrote to

59
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,840
you and wanted to do this podcast was because we

60
00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:05,840
had done a podcast before about you know how I

61
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,319
guess basically the American left has kind of lost its

62
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,319
mind in some ways, like not all of it, of course,

63
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,479
it's a huge group, but there's elements of it that

64
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,879
went this really weird direction of identitarianism and cancel culture

65
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,240
and was tied to you know, having a profile bio

66
00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:24,439
basically tied to being perpetually online, like social media has

67
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,360
poisoned the minds of social media has poisoned the minds

68
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,319
of both left and right. It's radicalized a lot of

69
00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:33,240
you know, a lot of people's grandparents, obviously, But then

70
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,360
there's this whole other element that came out of it

71
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,439
that I started to see popping up maybe ten or

72
00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:41,719
twelve years ago. That turned into just this really I

73
00:03:41,759 --> 00:03:45,280
think what you've called it before, the mean girl attitude

74
00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:49,159
of leftism. And that's so fucking appropriate because it sounds

75
00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:53,759
like rich kid mean girls. It's like this shaming shit talking, condescending,

76
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,879
just fucking mean. I mean, like, if you're trying to

77
00:03:56,919 --> 00:04:00,360
recruit people for your ideology or your movement, whatever, it's like,

78
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,039
I can't think of a shittier way to do it

79
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,400
than to behave like this, and that I you know

80
00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:08,680
what struck me is that because I'm like, I still

81
00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:11,759
I don't care what the fuck someone believes. If they

82
00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:14,520
want to talk about plants there into conservation, Like that's

83
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,079
what I hold up the most, Like, how do you

84
00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,240
feel about the living world around you? Do you respect it?

85
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,560
Do you think humans are at the center of it?

86
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,360
Do you think we need to own and control it?

87
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,720
That's what I care about. But at the end of

88
00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:25,360
the day, I mean, I still if you want to

89
00:04:25,519 --> 00:04:29,199
place me somewhere, obviously, I'm I'm left, like I'm working

90
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,600
class left, I'm more socialist left whatever. But all this

91
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,439
identitarian shit really lost me, and especially the attitudes. But

92
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,839
where I live now. You know, three years ago, I

93
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,360
moved to Texas for family reasons, and I knew going

94
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,519
into it was gonna be fucking weird, and it certainly is. Man,

95
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,279
it's one of the most repressed states that I've ever

96
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,639
been to. And you know, there's just like an element

97
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,879
here like just keep your head down, don't get too

98
00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:01,720
loud and whatever, and there's good to that, and there's

99
00:05:01,879 --> 00:05:04,399
you know, bad people are really polite, but then it's

100
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,000
you know, there's really some really weird value systems here. Anyway.

101
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,079
The point is, you know, I'm always paying attention to

102
00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:12,839
plants and rocks anyway, so what the fuck do I

103
00:05:12,879 --> 00:05:15,439
care about the people? But I made friends with people

104
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,360
here who are, like, who are voting Trump. I mean,

105
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,680
I love them, They're good people, and they're voting Trump.

106
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,480
They're just working class people. They're fucking school teachers, whatever.

107
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,759
And I just couldn't get because you know, ever since

108
00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:29,720
I was like ten, I was I mean, I saw

109
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,600
this on the fucking Simpsons, Like the right is inherently

110
00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:37,399
the party of the wealthy and the business class and

111
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,399
the fucking side that's fucking the planet into a coma

112
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:47,160
and you know, ruining, ruining the middle class and exploiting

113
00:05:47,199 --> 00:05:50,199
poor people and et cetera. And it's always just been oh, yeah,

114
00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:51,800
this is the way it is. I grew up thinking that,

115
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,720
and to just see working class people voting right, I

116
00:05:54,879 --> 00:05:57,000
just fucking couldn't wrap my head around that. I'm like,

117
00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,560
what the fuck is I feel like I'm living in

118
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,360
the matrix, like is everybody to hear duped? And then

119
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,600
I but then when I look at what they think

120
00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:06,879
of the modern American left, I'm like, oh, I kind

121
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,600
of understand that. Like, if not that I agree with them,

122
00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:11,319
but if that's what you think of it, if that's

123
00:06:11,319 --> 00:06:14,560
the image that's portrayed to you, I kind of understand it.

124
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 2: You know, yeah totally.

125
00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:19,639
Speaker 1: And it's it's and that second and not saying I

126
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,600
agree with it, but it provides some insights. So I

127
00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:22,959
just wanted to know how the fuck did we get

128
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,600
how do we get here? Man? Like? How did how

129
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,360
is this the situation where I feel like the left

130
00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:30,319
is kind of abandoned the working class. Let the movement

131
00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:34,680
get taken over by college kids from wealthy backgrounds, uh

132
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,360
who just like to shit talk online, and then you know,

133
00:06:37,519 --> 00:06:39,839
kind of handed this. I mean, that's the best thing

134
00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:42,839
you could do for for a populist movement, right, You

135
00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:46,040
just you're just giving them, You're alienating this huge sector

136
00:06:46,079 --> 00:06:49,319
of society and handing it over to this, this right

137
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,560
wing populist movement, which is again that's not even just

138
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,439
an America, that's all over the world. Right. But I

139
00:06:54,519 --> 00:06:56,439
just I don't know, I don't know. I'm curious what

140
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,439
you have to say about it.

141
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a lot to say there, for sure,

142
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,000
I think. Okay, So at first you have to contestualize

143
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,360
it historically, right, and I think that in the US

144
00:07:06,399 --> 00:07:08,680
in particular, but this is also true like throughout North

145
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,560
America and to a similar but lesser extent in Europe.

146
00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:17,360
You have to think about the decades of anti communist

147
00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:22,040
propaganda that was those leveraged against the population during the

148
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,279
Cold War, and they did a really, really, really good

149
00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:31,639
job of re painting any sort of socialist policy as

150
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:40,120
not just evil, but insane and completely anathema. To the

151
00:07:39,839 --> 00:07:43,639
the values of hardworking Americans or whatever. Right, So, so

152
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,399
right off the bat, you have this situation where like

153
00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:49,720
a very large proportion of the population thinks that're like

154
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,319
any policy that's set up to like benefit working class

155
00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:57,560
people in a direct way, particularly through you know, economic

156
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,160
reorganization is is just evil and crazy. So it's it's

157
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,560
not even something that people want to consider. And like

158
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,399
any any of the vocabulary that you can use to

159
00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:12,879
talk about these things has been poisoned by by these

160
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,920
decades events out of communism, right, And you know that

161
00:08:17,959 --> 00:08:21,360
doesn't just apply to communism communism like Marcus Leninism or something,

162
00:08:21,439 --> 00:08:23,519
but sort of like anything sort of like exaguarly left

163
00:08:23,519 --> 00:08:26,680
the center just thought of that way by by by

164
00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:29,639
quite a large proportion of the population. And then you

165
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:33,000
have what I think is one of the most elegant

166
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,159
explanations of all this, which is a phrase formulated by

167
00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:43,000
Mark Fisher, the ate Great in his book Capitalist Realism.

168
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,480
And I mean the phrase itself is capitalist realism, and

169
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,679
Fisher wrote this, it's this slim little book you can

170
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,600
read it in an afternoon, called Capitalist Realism. And and

171
00:08:53,639 --> 00:08:57,240
then he basically discusses how the fall of the Soviet

172
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:03,039
Union was like a downloambal through the Western left. And

173
00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:05,960
no matter what you want to say about the various

174
00:09:06,039 --> 00:09:08,559
kind of like communists and socialist parties that existed in

175
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,000
the West prior to the fall of the Soot Union,

176
00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:12,320
and you can say a lot about them, you can

177
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,840
criticize them a lot. At least before the fall of

178
00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:20,840
the Sod Union, people understood in a kind of embodied

179
00:09:20,879 --> 00:09:24,039
way that there was an alternative to capitalism. It existed,

180
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,399
and it was out there. You know, there was a

181
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,960
different way that you could organize an economic system. Then

182
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,600
you could criticize the way they were doing it, but

183
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,519
it definitely existed, right And after the fall of the

184
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,480
Seed Union, what you get is this kind of situation

185
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,799
where as Mark Fisher puts it, the end of the

186
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,120
world becomes easier to imagine than the end of capitalism

187
00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:49,000
because there is no alternative. There's nowhere in the world

188
00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:53,600
that has, you know, that is really like working outside

189
00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:56,879
of the capitalist system, except for these like bizarre little

190
00:09:56,919 --> 00:10:03,480
holdouts like North Korea, which nobody wants to fucking live in. Understandable, right, yeah,

191
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,399
of course, because I mean it's a totally degenerated, like

192
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:13,080
fascist like theocracy at this point. But yeah, and so

193
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,039
you get the situation where like alternatives to capitalism are

194
00:10:17,039 --> 00:10:20,399
like not even not even thinkable for so many people.

195
00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:23,600
And what I did on the left in the West

196
00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:28,039
is that a lot of these parties either collapsed immediately

197
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:36,000
or they pivoted away from anything that resembled socialism towards

198
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,799
a kind of like vague social democracy, which in and

199
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,960
of itself is not a terrible thing, but with like

200
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,600
a huge, huge focus on identity rather than on economic issues,

201
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,279
and in particular class.

202
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,639
Speaker 1: I think really quick too with that, I mean the

203
00:10:51,639 --> 00:10:53,320
fall of Soviet Union. But then in the eighties you

204
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,240
got Reagan and Thatcher that are just pumping this sign

205
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,960
randy and bullshit that if you give the rich more money,

206
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,759
it's going to be for everybody you know, and that

207
00:11:01,919 --> 00:11:04,440
business is the best thing you can do with your life.

208
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,159
Go to school for business. Why the fuck do you

209
00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:09,080
want to learn science? Why do you want to study astronomy?

210
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,039
Why do you study Why do you want to study biology?

211
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,200
Why do you want to study the sex lives of quail?

212
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,000
That's garbage, that's nothing. Why not study business and learn

213
00:11:17,039 --> 00:11:20,720
how to fucking run a plastic manufacturing company or fucking

214
00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:24,159
day trade or whatever. You know, just this fucking just

215
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,279
this holding up business is the ultimate aim. And not

216
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,480
only that, like not only is it capitalism, but like

217
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,440
any form of regulation on the rich or on corporations

218
00:11:34,919 --> 00:11:39,919
is you know, it's crazy, it's sacrilege. You can't like

219
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,759
why you can't do that? All hands off the market,

220
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,879
free markets, free minds, all that bullshit. I mean, it

221
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,519
really set the stage. And so that's when, you know,

222
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,399
defunding libraries, defunding health institutions, defunding the fucking post office,

223
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,600
at least in this country, in the United States. It's

224
00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,799
just that's how we ended up where we are today.

225
00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:00,799
In Texas where I live now, such a great example

226
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,080
of it. Everything's privatized, the fucking state electric grids privatiz

227
00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:07,480
There's middlemen involved in everything. Our health insurance is fucked.

228
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,080
You know, you're in Canada, you got somewhat decent health insurance.

229
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,320
Here we've got these sleeves back middlemen who are basically

230
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:16,080
finding out a way to try and gain it. They're

231
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,240
like the fucking mafia. You pay us, We're going to

232
00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:19,919
make sure we don't have to actually pay out.

233
00:12:19,799 --> 00:12:23,399
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, absolutely, And I mean, even in Canada,

234
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:27,600
like there's privatization of healthcare is proceeding. You know, it's

235
00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:32,519
it's really devastating to watch this, this thing that like

236
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,240
my ancestors like thought for. You know, it's it's like

237
00:12:36,279 --> 00:12:38,759
the birthright of the fucking working class is that we

238
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,799
have health care that we don't have to pay for

239
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,919
at the point of service, and they're doing their best

240
00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:46,759
to slowly privatize it. And it's like it's absolutely horrifying

241
00:12:46,759 --> 00:12:52,279
to watch. But you're you're totally right that neoliberalism is

242
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,759
the other part of this puzzle, right, because in the

243
00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:59,120
eighties and nineties, neoliberalism just swept the entire Western world

244
00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:05,440
and it became even more unthinkable to have policies that

245
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,399
would benefit working across people in any material way. And

246
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,919
this effect is like obviously not only parties on the right,

247
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,759
but also parties on the on the quote unquote left,

248
00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:18,639
like the Democrats right. And you know, in the United States,

249
00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:20,879
you're in this particularly sucked position because you only have

250
00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:23,919
two parties and so right now, like both of the

251
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,840
parties are like firmly neoliberal and their economic outlook right,

252
00:13:27,879 --> 00:13:30,919
like there's there's no discussion of wanting to move away

253
00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:32,440
from your liberalism.

254
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 1: Right, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get someone who

255
00:13:33,759 --> 00:13:35,960
supports the oligarchy either way, you're going to get a

256
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,960
war criminal and a friend of a friend of Wall

257
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,000
Street no matter what.

258
00:13:39,399 --> 00:13:43,039
Speaker 2: You know, well, absolutely right, And like you know, these

259
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,080
these Democrats, like every once in a while they're they're

260
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,279
they're like, we're going to have like this historic rays

261
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,320
in like the corporate tax rate or something, and they're

262
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,080
raising it to like much less than what it was

263
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:55,159
like a couple of decades ago. Right, So it's like

264
00:13:55,639 --> 00:13:58,519
it's it's still within the realm of this like total deregulation,

265
00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:01,519
cutting taxes much possible for the rich and so on,

266
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,279
and so for like regular working class people, like when

267
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,600
they look at these two parties, like there's very clearly

268
00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:09,960
not a party that is actually looking up for them,

269
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:12,519
like you know, it doesn't it doesn't exist. They don't

270
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,679
have anyone to vote for, and so like in terms

271
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,559
of their class interests really, and it's you know, like

272
00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:21,960
one party is sort of like comically evil and the

273
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:27,240
other party is like evil and somewhat competent. And you

274
00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:30,279
know it's like you know, which evil parties you want

275
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,080
to vote for both of them are going to fuck

276
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,879
over your economic interest So so what you do, and

277
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,440
especially because you have no expectation that any party is

278
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,200
going to look out for your economic interests, you you

279
00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:42,240
look for the party that is sort of saying things

280
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,240
that sounds vaguely like maybe what you think about stuff

281
00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:48,399
you know, and or even just the kind of like

282
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,519
sound like the sound of in general, it's just like

283
00:14:51,639 --> 00:14:54,000
fucking vibes. And I mean, like you can look at

284
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,200
like Kamala Harris just did this big interview I think

285
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,120
it was yesterday, and you know, she really adaptly managed

286
00:15:02,159 --> 00:15:04,960
to just not talk about any policies, right because like

287
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,840
they don't have any it's like nothing that's going to

288
00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:12,679
like particularly help people. Yeah, and so I think that

289
00:15:12,679 --> 00:15:16,080
that more or less sums up when I think about that.

290
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,039
I mean, I guess the last thing I would say

291
00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:21,159
about why they're left in the US lost their working

292
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,639
classes because they saw fucking trying, Like they don't particularly

293
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,600
care about it at all, and they don't like to

294
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,120
think about things in terms of class anyway, Like Americans

295
00:15:30,159 --> 00:15:33,440
in particular are very against thinking about things in terms

296
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,000
of class. And yeah, like the two political parties that

297
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,159
govern your country are not interested in really talking about it.

298
00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:47,879
But what is quite interesting is that the Republicans have

299
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,039
been doing I think a better job of paying lip

300
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,360
service to the working class yea, than the Democrats have.

301
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:58,000
You know, they've they've noticed that. It's it's it's a

302
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,360
kind of like a useful way to sort of grange

303
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:06,360
job voters who are relatively politically unsophisticated. And yeah, and

304
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:09,919
I mean in Canada where I live, we're in this

305
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,720
like insane situation where the Conservative Party is about to

306
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,519
crush the next election, like absolutely crush it. And I

307
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,720
think one of the reasons is that the current leader

308
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:25,720
of the Conservative Party PR has been saying the words

309
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,519
of working class over and over again, and no one

310
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:30,480
else is, you know, including our like our party that

311
00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:34,080
pretends to be social Democrats. So yeah, it's it's just

312
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:35,039
a bizarre situation.

313
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,519
Speaker 1: And I think I think too. I mean, well, I

314
00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:40,759
first off, I wrote to you when Biden was still

315
00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:42,720
in the race, and I just I can't even look

316
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:44,720
at this ship. It's like, oh god, you know, the

317
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:47,519
whole thing. But when Biden was still in the race especially,

318
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:51,120
and it felt especially disheartening, and you're watching Trump just

319
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,600
surge and you're like, how the fuck do people think

320
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:56,919
this guy is actually on their side? It's fucking insane,

321
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,799
and you don't want to just be a dick. You can't.

322
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,840
I mean, it's it's it's so easy to be like, oh,

323
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,519
everyone's a fucking moron who's been duped and played and

324
00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:06,119
you know he's living in the matrix whatever, Like that's

325
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,839
not one. It's not nice too. It's fucking whatever truth

326
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,000
there may be to it, or elements of truth, it's not.

327
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,359
It's certainly not shit you're gonna say to people, because

328
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,880
that's not gonna win them over. But it's just I

329
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680
felt so fucking twisted. I'm like Jesus Christ, am I

330
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:23,240
the only one seeing this? Like it was one of

331
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,519
those like Emperor Wears No Clothes moments, Like you're voting

332
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:28,960
for this dude in a fucking fifty thousand dollars suit

333
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,200
who's been fucking over poor people his whole life, and

334
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,880
you you think he's gonna be your friend. Like you

335
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,039
work as a contractor, you're eating shit for a railroad

336
00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:39,920
company or for a fucking oil drilling company, whatever, and

337
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,160
you think this dude is gonna support you, Like how

338
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,240
the fuck, like, you know, I don't even know where

339
00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:48,720
to start. And then you know, Harris enters the race

340
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,240
and he loses. He like drops down a little bit,

341
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:53,400
and he did that whole getting shot thing with the

342
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,319
corny fucking holding his fist up, you know, photo ops,

343
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,880
super fucking corny, and uh like someone emblazon that someone

344
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,559
made a meme. They emblazon that over like this typical

345
00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:08,880
American shopping slum scene of like chick fil a drive

346
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,640
through and all the like, you know, all the like

347
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,440
you know, like this is what you're defending or this

348
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,359
is what you're you know, this is America. But so

349
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,200
he dropped a little bit and then it's kind of like, Okay,

350
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,039
I feel like that's the job of the like the

351
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,039
Democratic Party is like just to and don't get me wrong,

352
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,839
like I hope Harris fucking wins. I don't want religious theocracy.

353
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,880
I want the poison. I know, you know, I don't

354
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,880
want the fucking I don't know what the fuck Trump's

355
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,279
gonna like they got plans they got they want, you know,

356
00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:39,880
they want to replace fifty thousand you know, civil servants

357
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,880
with people they already know, like with just pure people

358
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,759
who are already in their cult. I mean, it's scary

359
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:49,839
shit like Trump is. Yeah, there's definitely a difference between

360
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,920
the two, at least in some ways. Like it's it's

361
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,440
not you know, I don't know, it's fucking freaky. But

362
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,119
I feel like that's the job of the Democratic parties

363
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,119
to play cap people and be like, Okay, just sit

364
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,839
here while they're the oligarchs, continue to fuck you and

365
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,000
uh and we'll just you know, we'll put a rainbow

366
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:06,880
on it, we'll smile and we'll you know, And that's

367
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,279
that's what they do, whereas like the right wing is

368
00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:13,160
like they're salesman, they got this whole pitch. They're completely

369
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,680
full of shit, but they've really got a plan to

370
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:19,440
like drive home the fucking nails deeper, you know, and

371
00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:23,200
really take it somewhere dark. I just I think that's

372
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,319
the That's just the infuriating thing for me, though, is

373
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,759
seeing working class people voting for this dude, and they're

374
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:30,640
good people. I'm not going to just write them off

375
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,920
and be like, oh, you're a fucking idiot, you know,

376
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,160
or nothing like that. It's just it's more dystopic than

377
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,000
that's like I like you, but like, yeah, I don't know,

378
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:42,960
you're just confused, man. And yeah, it's like this really

379
00:19:43,079 --> 00:19:44,079
distoper feeling.

380
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:49,839
Speaker 2: I think, like, you know, machine gun into my head.

381
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:54,160
Probably out vote for Harris, but I wouldn't want you,

382
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,799
you know, if I could vote in the US, which

383
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:00,400
you can. Yeah, But I think that one of the

384
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:06,400
mistakes that the left makes, or like liberals anyway, is

385
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:11,319
like they really believe that the Democrats are so self

386
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,400
evidently better for working class people than Republicans. But I

387
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,480
don't know if that's the fucking case anymore. Like I

388
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:23,240
really don't know the companies right now. I mean yeah,

389
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,240
like yes, And so if if you come take a

390
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,720
step back and you accept that both of these parties

391
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,680
are like absolutely fucking trash run by total psychos, then

392
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,079
half the people are going to vote for one. Half

393
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,200
people are going to vote for the other, you know

394
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,480
what I mean? Yeah, Yeah, I just I feel like

395
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,319
they're just both based on vibes.

396
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess that's what it was like Ragan.

397
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,000
You'd working class people voting for Reagan. But I don't know, man,

398
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:50,519
I look at the modern left and then I travel

399
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:52,400
to other countries and look at the left there, and

400
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,920
I'm like, man, they don't the ship we do here,

401
00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:57,519
the ship the left does in the US they don't

402
00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,960
do another other countries is as much like this whole

403
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,960
And that brings me to identitarianism, this focus on like

404
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,880
this two dimensional characteristic, Like what, how would you define identitarianism?

405
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,400
Like for anyone that's confused about what the fuck it is,

406
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,400
it still doesn't know, Like how would you how would

407
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,039
you sum it up?

408
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean I like to say identitarianism

409
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:22,599
instead of identity politics. And the difference is basically that

410
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:30,359
identitarianism is like a total privileging of identity at the

411
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,039
expense of pretty much any other relevant factor, like a

412
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,559
real obsession with identity as the cause and effect and

413
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:43,599
you know, the only thing that's important about any given topic,

414
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,920
whereas identity politics, I mean, identity politics is just sort

415
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,240
of like any politics or policy that has identity involved

416
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,200
in it, which there's not a bad thing in and

417
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,000
of itself in any way, right, Like, identity definitely impacts

418
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,359
people's lives and it makes sense to have policy. Is

419
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,920
that addressed that in various ways? But is this like

420
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,079
obsession with identity at the expense of every other, every

421
00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:07,599
other characteristic And it really has taken over in like

422
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,480
a huge way, and it's taken over across the board,

423
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,920
which is interesting too. It's not just on the left,

424
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,200
Like I think that the rise of the Old Right

425
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:20,839
and the rise of like male identity politics are examples

426
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,400
of this. On the right, right, so you have like

427
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,359
this white nationalism and the MRAs and the pickup artists

428
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,440
and the in cells and all this kind of stuff.

429
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,359
Is it's also identitarianism, right. It's people who are like,

430
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,519
the defining factor of my life is that I'm a

431
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:38,200
man and I can't get late or whatever, and they're

432
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,400
trying to articulate politics out of that identity characteristic that

433
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,480
they have. And on the left, you know, we're more

434
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,200
familiar with that, I think because more people bitch about

435
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,240
identity politics on the left and identitarianism on the left.

436
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:54,039
But yeah, so I mean on the on the left

437
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:57,119
you have this, like particularly in the United States, is

438
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
a very very strong obsession with race at the expense

439
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:07,720
class and are constant the word I'm looking for, the lighting,

440
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,200
I think is the word I'm looking for. But basically

441
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:12,359
just where you you take one thing and you make

442
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,160
a stand for the other. So in the US, like

443
00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:19,359
constantly when when they are getting close to talking about

444
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,839
something in a way that would make sense, they switch

445
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,160
from talking about class and talking about race, you know,

446
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,559
and it's always about race and never built class, whereas

447
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:31,640
I mean, actually, in many, many, many cases, those far

448
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,599
more relevant factors become a class with the person involved.

449
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,400
But Americans seem to be like incapable of understanding that

450
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:42,160
end and articulating things that way.

451
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's super fucking divisive. It's super divisive.

452
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:48,240
It's stupid, and it's going to turn off people that

453
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:51,559
don't understand what you're talking about, you know, Like it's

454
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,880
I think it's I always tell you. I think it's

455
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,200
started from, you know, a critical lens on history, which

456
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,960
is absolutely that's necessary for living in this world. You

457
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,519
have to understand why things are the way they are,

458
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,200
histories of oppression, histories of repression, histories of resistance, et cetera.

459
00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:13,200
But so it started up with that, and then it

460
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:16,839
just turned into this like two dimensional stand in, you know,

461
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,079
and this fixation on like race, which doesn't exist, I mean,

462
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480
just from a purely biological standpoint, these alleles that code

463
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,759
for melanin production are the result of a population having

464
00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:30,400
spent you know, the past few thousands of years at

465
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,599
a certain latitude and receiving solar insulation and the vitamin

466
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,519
B deficiency you get if your pale skin the lower latitudes,

467
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:41,400
and the vitamin D deficiency you get if you're melanin

468
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,960
toned higher melanin tone at higher latitudes, and using that

469
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,960
is a stand in for culture, like tying in quote

470
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,079
unquote race melanin content, that's all it is, and tying

471
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:56,200
that in with culture and not just understanding oh, like

472
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,160
you know, the dominant class of these anglos for the

473
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,839
last five hundred years at least, has been historically oppressing people,

474
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,920
you know, based on their melanin content, which is fucking

475
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,839
asinine and ridiculous. Like these motherfuckers actually thought they were

476
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,119
better than these people, you know, but not just understanding that,

477
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:17,640
but but turning that into like something else, like this inherited,

478
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,039
like you know, just fixating on this. It's fucking nuts.

479
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:24,079
And I think that goes so well with social media too.

480
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,319
And I know we've talked about this before, Like you

481
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,920
need something to put in that profile bio. You grow

482
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,720
up in a depressing consumer society, maybe living in a

483
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,920
cul de sac or you know, you're you're you have Noah,

484
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:38,759
You're deprived of so much that could build a genuine identity.

485
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,640
You cling to these two dimensional characteristics. Well that's not

486
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:44,400
who you are. Who would you be if you were stranded,

487
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,720
you know, alone for a week somewhere, you know, or

488
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,279
if you if the world ended like that Twilight Zone episode.

489
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:55,839
I'm always mentioning like where you know, Like the dude

490
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,319
likes to read and the fucking world ends and he's

491
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:00,079
stuck in a library, and that's like he knows what

492
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,720
he's going to do. Is got endless food, He's got

493
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:03,359
like what would you do? What art would you make?

494
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:06,200
What are your experiences? What's your perspective on the world

495
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:10,839
when you mentally ingest material? What is your reflection back

496
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,920
on it? That kind of thing, and it just went

497
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,039
this really weird direction. Yeah, man, And I had some

498
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,920
guy I posted I made that giving tree, that tree

499
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,400
giving the finger to the little kid post, you know,

500
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,039
drawing a play on shel Silverstein's Giving Tree. And I

501
00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:28,839
had this kid comment and uh, you know, we probably

502
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:30,720
would have gotten along in any other context, but he's like,

503
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:33,480
can you can It's only white people that act like this,

504
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:35,400
And I was like, are you fucking kidding me. You

505
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,720
ever heard of Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard of

506
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:41,400
like any of the other like five hundred fucking genocidal

507
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,720
maniacs and dictators in the last fifteen thousand years of

508
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,720
human history, Like history is littered with mass graves, Like

509
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:51,960
you're not thinking about this broadly enough, Like it's you know,

510
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,880
like what about the white people that existed in Europe,

511
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,319
you know before before this weird the precursors to European colonials,

512
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,519
And what about white pelist there before the that culture

513
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:05,759
wiped them out, like the indigenous white people of wherever

514
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:09,359
the fuck? You know, it's weird, man, for sure.

515
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: Like the flip side of over white supremacy is is

516
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:16,160
kind of still white supremacy because it just imagines that

517
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,000
there's something very very special about white people, that they're

518
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,279
just bad instead of good, you know. But like there's

519
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:25,119
nothing special about any group of people. They're all just

520
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,240
like human beings doing their thing, you know. But yeah,

521
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,480
I mean in the United States too, there's this particularly

522
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:35,119
like weird way of thinking about race that where like

523
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:38,519
in particularly like like Black Americans are spoken about as

524
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:42,759
though they are a race. But I mean, realistically, this

525
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,640
group is an ethnic group. It's an American ethnic group, right,

526
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,880
and but it gets confused with race all the time too,

527
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,279
which is really interesting. And actually there was something like

528
00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:55,400
super funny that happened a while back where like Donald

529
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,880
Trump excused Kamala Harris as like not really being black,

530
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,400
you know, and everybody super mad about this. But it's

531
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,240
really funny because like Trump, even though he was like

532
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,680
only right by accident, is kind of right because Kaalala

533
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,039
Harris does not come from the ethnic group of Black

534
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:15,880
Americans like her her father, I believe is is I

535
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,079
guess like quote unquote racially black, but he's an immigrant, right,

536
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,400
And the same thing is true of Obama. And so

537
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:24,559
like the two sort of like major black political figures

538
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:28,400
in the US are not Black Americans. They're they're the

539
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,680
descendants of immigrants, and they're sort of like I mean,

540
00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:32,839
I hate using this war, but like they're like racially

541
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:36,079
black or whatever, like their their ancestors descended from people

542
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,720
from Africa, but they're not members of the ethnic group

543
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:42,880
that is Black Americans who have their own you know.

544
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:45,839
Even though it's a very large ethnic group with lots

545
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:47,880
of like internal differences and so on. It has its

546
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,200
own sort of you know, cultural characteristics and like dialects

547
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:57,240
and so on. Right, but yeah, Americans are continuously very

548
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,039
confused about.

549
00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: This, like in indigenous cultures is a monolithic entity, not

550
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,000
realizing there were like thousands of tribes and you know,

551
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:08,319
I see that all the time, same thing like different cultures,

552
00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:08,799
et cetera.

553
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:16,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. To get back to identitagonism quick,

554
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,119
I think like one of the things that has happened,

555
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:24,319
and this ties into capitalist realism too, is that a

556
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:28,559
lot of people on the lest essentially abandoned any possibility

557
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:34,559
of getting socialist policies passed in any way. And if

558
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:37,559
you abandon that, what is the sort of point, like,

559
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:39,359
what what are you going to do next? Then if

560
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,279
you can't have any policies past they are going to

561
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,759
benefit working across people, what can you focus on? You know?

562
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,599
And so what they did begin to focus on was

563
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,799
identity because that was something that they felt that they

564
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:53,480
could actually make some sort of impact on. You know. Now,

565
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,680
whether or not they've made any sort of like positive

566
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,000
impact is I guess the mays to be seen. Perhaps

567
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,960
some right, but like for the most part, it's just

568
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:11,519
turned into this circus where you get to sort of

569
00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:16,039
like look at any issue and then apply identitarianism to it,

570
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:18,960
and you can get so many juicy arguments out of that,

571
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,720
you know, and you can find people to blame, and

572
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:25,559
you can find people who are the virtuous victims and

573
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,920
so on and so forth. And so people are just

574
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,359
pouring their energy into this and like one of the

575
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,799
one of the quote unquote good things about this for

576
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:36,839
people who are like involved in that world is that

577
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:40,319
they feel like they can make an impact for real

578
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,720
because they can, you know, go on the internet, find

579
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,960
somebody who said something bad, and then they can dedicate

580
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,599
you know, weeks to like hounding that person down or whatever,

581
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,119
you know, which is like, you know, they can expend

582
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,079
like energy on it and sort of see a result,

583
00:30:56,079 --> 00:30:58,279
even if the result is insane doesn't actually really help

584
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:01,000
anything in the long run, it's still a result. Whereas

585
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,160
if you look at, you know, the distribution of income

586
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,839
in the United States, like what are you going to

587
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,319
do about that? Like, right, like, how are you going

588
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:11,079
to fix that? You can't fix it yourself, you know,

589
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:14,319
And because of the United States, it's just like and

590
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,279
I mean it's not just the US, but I think

591
00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:19,599
it's like most advanced in the US because there's no

592
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,319
possibility of of sort of yeah, like socialist policies actually

593
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,519
taking any any form because there's no socialist party, there's

594
00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:32,400
no organized socialist movement, at least none were worthy of

595
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,359
the name. That's what people just end up focusing on

596
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:36,799
the identity stuff, right.

597
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:39,279
Speaker 1: That's got it so weird. I mean, Roger Pete really

598
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:40,960
was right when he said it's you know what, I

599
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:43,839
was like, what causes this, like this the left eating itself?

600
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,759
He's like powerlessness and a telephone or a telephone, pocket telephone,

601
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,599
And I was like, yeah, basically, but you know, it's

602
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,960
it really struck me because I was I had this

603
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:55,680
really dumb perspective on things. I was like, Oh, if

604
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,759
anyone is as long as they agree with me politically,

605
00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:00,559
we're probably going to get along. And then I watched

606
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,799
my neighborhood, you know, which had been a working class neighborhood,

607
00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:06,680
get taken over by everyone who seemed like they were

608
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,519
you know, they grieved me. On paper, they had the

609
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:11,839
signs in the windows, all the fucking you know, the BLM,

610
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,119
whatever the fuck, all this shit they put in the windows.

611
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:17,319
But they were some of the most obnoxious and fucking

612
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,720
just shitty people, you know, just like really mean. They

613
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,480
were always on that app next door complaining about shit

614
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,720
or or like you know, happy to lecture someone on

615
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:30,240
that next door app. You know, even if it was

616
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,640
like a working class, you know, black person from a

617
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,680
neighborhood lecture them about something they did, you know, that

618
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,559
was like morally condescend to people like this just is

619
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,079
morally condescending. Running everything through this filter you know of

620
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:47,400
like this social justice shit that's social justice and name

621
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,640
only it was. It was so weird. It was such

622
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,640
a headspin. I was like, what the fuck, man, Like

623
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,279
this is really you know, and it didn't. None of

624
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:57,400
them were working class, Like I'm over there working in

625
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,799
the fucking railroad, you know, working midnights, breathing and break

626
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,799
dust whatever. And then seeing the people who are like

627
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,519
causing the who are moving into these I wouldn't say

628
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:08,720
causing it, the investors caused it, but moving into these

629
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:11,799
expensive new apartments in my neighborhood, and they look all great,

630
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:15,240
they're driving subarus, you know, they're fucking you know, they

631
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:16,599
get they get like I said, they got the signs

632
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:18,799
in the windows, which that and that alone got an

633
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,319
obnoxious like you know, majority Anglo people trying to like

634
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,440
virtue signal and perform and prove what an ally there,

635
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:29,960
Like there's few things that are more nauseating than that,

636
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,480
like the self flagellating. Like oh my god, it was

637
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,519
twenty twenty, so George Floyd uh had just happened, and

638
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:39,359
this was like this was on blast, like they were

639
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:41,160
this was people were going hard with this and it

640
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,599
was so just like oh god, fuck.

641
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:45,599
Speaker 2: God dude, yeah, I remember, you know, And it's like

642
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:48,640
when when twenty was going down, like I was just

643
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,759
like he all you people like just learned about racism

644
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:51,759
or what just what.

645
00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:56,119
Speaker 1: I feel like, I'm like, fuck, I've read fucking people's

646
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,839
history of the United States when I was like fourteen,

647
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,200
Like you just learned that, like world is like the

648
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,200
systems fucked? Like what is why do you why you

649
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,759
have such a need to perform? You know, settle down?

650
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:10,039
Speaker 2: It's okay, yeah yeah, and and I mean again, it

651
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:12,559
like comes down to like what the fuck are you

652
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:14,960
going to do about it? You know, and like the

653
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,199
Democrats are not going to do anything about it. They're

654
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,360
fucking not like what like you know, they were in

655
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,119
power for the last four years, What the fuck did

656
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:24,519
they do? But I think they just like shoveled more

657
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:26,599
billions of dollars to the cops and like beefed up

658
00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:29,000
border security and like I did like the fucking right

659
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,039
wing party that they are.

660
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: The same lobbyists are going to both parties, man, the

661
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:36,719
same fucking companies are the interact. You're you're working for

662
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,119
the companies, they're working for the people. You're working for

663
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:42,400
the fucking companies. You know, it's it's an oligarchy. It's

664
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,760
straight up and it's you know, so, so what do

665
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,519
people do? They talk shit online and they just perpetually

666
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,119
condescend to people talk to them like they're a fucking

667
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,039
idiot or like they're morally Like, oh my god, you're

668
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:55,480
like a literal garbage person. That was the fucking thing

669
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,039
I used to see all the time, Like reading the

670
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:59,960
comments section on some of these posts is fucking noth

671
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,400
And then you know, again running everything through this constant filter,

672
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,000
Like I saw a post where someone was attacking free

673
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:09,320
to Callo and saying that she like ripped off Indigenous

674
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,559
people and wasn't real fucking I was like, Jesus Christ,

675
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:15,159
it gives a fuck, Like it's it's one hundred years

676
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:17,760
after the fact. Let it go, Like there's don't you

677
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:18,960
have real shit to focus on?

678
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,679
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, no totally. And I mean it

679
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,719
doesn't it doesn't accomplish anything material, like it never does.

680
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:27,960
I mean, Okay, so this is like an interesting thing.

681
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,960
Like I guess there's like a little bit of a pivot.

682
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,119
But I'm thinking again about like how the Republicans in

683
00:35:33,159 --> 00:35:35,119
the US have managed to win over so many people.

684
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:37,760
And I mean I think that there is this like widespread,

685
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,000
sort of nauseated hatred of the elite, right, Like this

686
00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,800
is like a lot of people hate the elite, whatever

687
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,800
they think the elite is. And one of the things

688
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,320
that the Republicans have done really really well is that

689
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,840
even though they are very very obviously the elite, they

690
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,199
just talk about the elite all the time. And the Conservatives,

691
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,280
the Conservatives in Canada are doing the same thing, and

692
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,480
they're just sort of like these fucking crazy bad guys

693
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:03,840
are trying to fuck you over, and they're they're terrible,

694
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,480
and we're gonna we're gonna tear them down. You know,

695
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,559
We're gonna go in and we're gonna just destroy like

696
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,239
all of their their giant edifice of corruption, and people

697
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,440
are like, yes, sounds fucking good, sign me up, you know,

698
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:16,679
and like, particularly if you're not sort of sophisticated enough

699
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,800
to realize that these cycles are as you eat. I mean,

700
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,039
but it sounds fucking good, popular, right.

701
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: Oh, it's what they fucking do. And they play into

702
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,239
the anger, you know, and I think of like, oh,

703
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,239
that fucking Hillary Clinton quote that she had in twenty sixteen,

704
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,920
I almost want to I like, I simultaneously shap my

705
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000
pants and threw up in my mouth at the same time.

706
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:41,960
It was when they go low, we go hi? What

707
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,000
No fucking go low? Kick them in the nuts. These

708
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:48,760
these are devious, fucking villains, Like what you go go high?

709
00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:51,079
Shut up? Like, how's that gonna work out for you?

710
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:54,480
It was so I mean again, I can't believe like

711
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:57,400
they ran her too, Like she was so universally hated.

712
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,199
You know, I've been hanging out with occasionally, and I

713
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:01,960
would rednecks that had been hating her for the last

714
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,000
twenty years. You know. When I got sent to a

715
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:10,159
fucking military school in Wisconsin, you know, in lieu of jail,

716
00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:12,719
Like there were kids there who's like, who were wearing

717
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,840
like anti Clinton shit, like they fucking you know, there's

718
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,480
like mid nineties, like their dads were had already indoctrinated,

719
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,159
and then with like anti Hillary Clinton shit, not just

720
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,960
Bill but Hillary too, like they've hated her for so long,

721
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:28,400
like it was you know. Yeah, the Republicans are amazing

722
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:34,320
at their businessmen, They're amazing at pr and bullshit, you know, yeah.

723
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:36,519
Speaker 2: For sure, and they realize that everybody hates the fucking people.

724
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:38,519
I mean, it's the established political class that has just

725
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:43,239
been destroying the country for forever. And yeah, they're obnoxious

726
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,280
and they're condescending and nobody who likes them, so it's

727
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,639
a really easy way to sort of like to get

728
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:50,400
people on your team.

729
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:50,639
Speaker 1: Right.

730
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I don't know. I think that

731
00:37:56,639 --> 00:38:02,159
like what's really really needed desperately is another party somehow,

732
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,239
some way for you guys for sure in the US.

733
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,960
And like I don't have any expertise on like how

734
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,079
this could be done, you know, but I'm like, nothing

735
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,159
at all can happen until this exists. There needs to

736
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,559
be a third party that has a reliable chance of

737
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,960
influencing power, right And basically I'm like all the different

738
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,960
tiny lefty groups and like the Green Party and like

739
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:30,800
the Parties for Socialist Liberation or whatever it's called, and like,

740
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,920
you know, all these lookers they need to like abandon

741
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,280
whatever the fuck they've been doing and join together and

742
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,679
start building up a platform that is palatable to regular people.

743
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,960
And they also have to be doing the populist thing.

744
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,039
I think that it's like politically advantageous, but they would

745
00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:49,960
have the benefit of not being the establishment psychos the

746
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,880
way that the Republicans are the establishment psychos, you know,

747
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,239
And like you need somebody who's willing to get up

748
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,039
there and be like, all of these fucking people are criminals, traders,

749
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,559
they hate you, they fear you, and we're going to

750
00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:05,199
tear down there. We're going to tear down their their

751
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:07,719
real edifice of corruption and it includes the Republicans here,

752
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,679
you know. So you need a kind of like lestling

753
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,199
populism that is capable and willing of standing up and

754
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,440
being like these people are fucking disgusting. They're disgusting. I'm

755
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,400
not even going to debate them. They're so disgusting, you

756
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,679
know what I mean, Like just like really like nail

757
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:22,239
it home, like over and over and over again that

758
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:28,320
these people are cycles and corrects.

759
00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: And statistics and shit, you know, and yeah, who's taking

760
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,920
money from what company? Et cetera.

761
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, absolutely right. And I think that you need,

762
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:38,559
like I don't know, I think you need green policies

763
00:39:38,639 --> 00:39:41,639
that I wrote an article about this, but you need

764
00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:44,480
green policies that are like really good for poor people

765
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:48,760
and just absolutely infuriate rich people, because I think that

766
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,320
a lot of people's problem with green policies on the

767
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,320
right is that they note correctly that these won't impact

768
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,719
rich people. Right, They're like, oh, so you want me

769
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,760
to like have my fucking paper straw, but like Justin

770
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,400
Trudeau is going to fly around the world in this

771
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,519
protect year, like spending millions of dollars and blah blah blah. Right,

772
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,400
and they're like, just fucking bullshit, And they're right, you know,

773
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,360
they're completely corrected as bullshit. But what you need is,

774
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,760
like I don't know, I think it'd be hilarious to

775
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,760
just have a party that's been like that. It's just

776
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:25,000
like we're gonna ban privateize just like you know what

777
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,079
I mean, I can't.

778
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,159
Speaker 1: Even imagine what like, I can't imagine what a third

779
00:40:29,199 --> 00:40:31,079
party here would look like, Like I don't think any

780
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:34,599
American can like, how would you you know it's and

781
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:36,679
then how would how would that be gamed by the

782
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,960
companies to just take away votes from whatever, you know,

783
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:42,519
person they were worried about would win. I mean, no

784
00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:45,960
one's going to regulate the companies to any significant amount,

785
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,199
you know, either party. I think I will say, on

786
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:53,480
an unrelated note to this, we can get back to

787
00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:55,199
this if you want that. This is something I've always

788
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,519
liked about what you and Clementine are pushing. And I

789
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:00,400
don't know if this just comes from you know, working

790
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,360
in recovery or whatever, but is being willing to work

791
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,400
with people, not just write someone off because they vote

792
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,960
Trump or because they vote for you know, whatever the fuck,

793
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,280
and and kind of talk to him and work with them.

794
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,599
I mean, that was something I got a friend, Uh,

795
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:17,280
he just retired from the railroad as an engineer. He

796
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,039
was a you know, a labor organizer. He worked on

797
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:23,199
the South side of Chicago for a few decades. Lives

798
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:24,880
in the Vada now, and he used to always tell me,

799
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,559
He's like, yeah, man, I'd go in we'd go into

800
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,840
like these these white working class neighborhoods where they were

801
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,280
extremely racist and he would, and he would just work.

802
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,679
You'd work with him. He'd ignore the shit they said

803
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:39,480
and talk about you know, working working for this company

804
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,639
that hates you and we gotta we got to protect

805
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:44,920
our rights against the carrier, et cetera. And then slowly,

806
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,880
you know, he wouldn't write, you wouldn't like morally reprimand

807
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,920
them or anything. He would kind of maybe say something

808
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,800
here and there and just ignore or whatever, and then

809
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,639
slowly start putting in bits of anti racist shit like

810
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:58,599
working on them, you know. And and he he had success,

811
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:01,280
you know, that's what. But like these I feel like

812
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,519
people today are just so fucking intolerant of you know,

813
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:07,440
like you're not gonna get you're not gonna get tainted

814
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,400
by talking to someone who disagrees with you politically, you know.

815
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and like it's very difficult to make someone

816
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,000
stopping a racist, right, Like it's it's a it's a

817
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:23,440
fucking complicated process. And even if you succeed in in

818
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:25,519
changing their views, they're probably going to still hold some

819
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:29,079
bigative views like somewhere in their mind. Right. But I

820
00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:33,400
know for fucking sure that like lecturing people and then

821
00:42:33,519 --> 00:42:36,639
like sort of like cutting them out completely, Like to

822
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,440
fucking do anything at all, right, And yeah, I mean

823
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,039
it's for sure the twelve step stuff that's like insluenced

824
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:45,039
me in this also the fact that I worked in

825
00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:49,119
homeless shelters for like five years. And I mean you

826
00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:51,800
would be shocked or maybe not at all at like

827
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,840
how offensive people can be when they're like crazy and

828
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,079
trying to deal with a lot of a lot of

829
00:42:57,119 --> 00:42:59,760
shit and they have like no you know, no political

830
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,119
shiscation whatsoever, because you know, they might not know how

831
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:06,559
to read or whatever it is. And like you know,

832
00:43:06,599 --> 00:43:09,519
people would say like insanely offensive ship like all the time.

833
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:11,639
But I mean I'm not gonna like kick them out

834
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:13,920
of the right, you know.

835
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: Actually I need to take you aside and lecture you actually,

836
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:18,960
you know. And by the way, my venmo, you can

837
00:43:19,039 --> 00:43:22,920
venmo me for the emotional labor that I've spent. Yeah.

838
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean you need to keep it like

839
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,480
safe for everybody, So you have to talk with people

840
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,440
and just be like, you know, this kind of like

841
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:32,400
language isn't isn't a lot in the shelter whatever was

842
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:33,920
to just cool it. But you know, I'm not gonna

843
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,079
be like this guy, yeah, like a homophobe and therefore

844
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:37,719
he can't come in.

845
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: You know.

846
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:40,679
Speaker 2: It's like a lot of people are fucking homophobic and

847
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,480
it sucks, and I think it's fucking stupid. But like

848
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:47,119
the best way for sure to get people to abandon

849
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,800
their most like intense bigoted views is to get them

850
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,199
in in spaces and organizations where they're hanging out with

851
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,920
people about who may have those bigoted views. Right. Like,

852
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,719
one of the best things for anti racism, I believe

853
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,719
is getting people in unions, getting people in unions with

854
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,320
people of other races, and you know, they have like

855
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,679
a clear common material goal absolutely that they're working towards together.

856
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,360
And it really sort of like hammers home the fact

857
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,840
that like people, people can have the same sort of

858
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,239
interest even if they're of different quote unquote races, right,

859
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,639
And that and that their interests are opposed to other

860
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,920
people of their same race who are in a different class.

861
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I mean, and you look at where I mean,

862
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,199
where's racism come from. It comes from lack of experience,

863
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,639
probably lack of travel, lack of interaction with other people,

864
00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:50,880
a relatively small world, a small worldview, and and lack

865
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,079
of education. Absolutely lack of education, you know, and so Yeah,

866
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,199
it's it's it's fucking awful. But if you really want

867
00:44:58,199 --> 00:44:59,639
to fight it, you don't do you don't just do

868
00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:03,119
it by by refusing to work with people. Get in there.

869
00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:06,440
You fucking view it as infiltrating. You know, you really

870
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,039
want to change shit, Get in there and infiltrate, you know,

871
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:10,800
hold your nose for some of the dumb shit, then

872
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,480
start slipping in bits. I mean, that's how you that's

873
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,239
how you change people's mind. That's how you wake people

874
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,800
up out of whatever weird worldview they have.

875
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: For sure, And and and in particular because like most

876
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:27,199
people who hold racist views aren't like what you might

877
00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:30,800
call politically racists. Like they're not they're not like invested

878
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,639
in this stuff in like a really intense way, the

879
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:35,000
way that like a neonatsy is right, They just kind

880
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,760
of believe some stupid shit and they haven't thought about

881
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:37,159
it that much.

882
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:40,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lazy minded view. It's a lazy minded worldview.

883
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly. And and you know, whereas neo Nazis

884
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,400
are searching out these people and attempting to convert them,

885
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,360
we're you know, we just like shut them out. Percent

886
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,760
they don't exist percentage they're neo Nazis, which they're not

887
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,639
at whatever, and it just leave them ripe to be

888
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:01,360
harvested by like the real the real psychos.

889
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, where do you I mean in terms

890
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,199
of populism, because you see this stuff popping up all

891
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:12,480
over this kind of reactionary, angry, blunt headed, not very intelligent,

892
00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:16,519
just just mad shit popping up everywhere. I mean you

893
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:20,199
see it popping up and obviously in Brazil, places in Europe.

894
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,239
Where does man, where does this come? Like the stuff

895
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,280
in the UK, Like it was like, you know, some

896
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,599
immigrant from Africa or the child he was actually born

897
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:35,199
in the UK and quite clearly just had mental issues,

898
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,320
you know, and and wasn't even Muslim. They started attacking Muslims,

899
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,599
like the working these working class whites in the UK

900
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:43,840
started attacking Muslims and burn like what the fuck? Like,

901
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,639
where where does that come from? Why are they so mad?

902
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,280
Like why are they so willing to just well, we

903
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:50,960
know why they're mad. Why are they so willing to

904
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,400
just escapegoat it and blame it? It seems like the oldest

905
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,039
trick in the book that you know, the powers that

906
00:46:56,079 --> 00:46:58,360
be have played, you know, to keep them away from

907
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,559
you you make them fight among each other.

908
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, absolutely. Where it comes from is kind

909
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,519
of a complicated question, but I mean my go to

910
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:14,639
you answer is just that people are in enraged at

911
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,880
their in miseration, like they've been made steadily poorer and

912
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,599
poorer in comparison to the wealthiest people in the society.

913
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,119
And they also recognize that the entire game is rigged

914
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:31,840
against them because it is and you know, the the

915
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,719
the explanations of this that they're that they're fed don't

916
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,079
making sense to them. Like, you know, if you're some

917
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,880
I don't know, racist like white teenager somewhere in like

918
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,400
northern England, and everything sucks, and it's very clear that

919
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,800
like nothing is set up for you in any material

920
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,119
way because you're sucking poor, and people are going around

921
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:54,280
being like, oh, well, you know, all of the problems

922
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,079
in society are the results of like white privilege. Right,

923
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,960
You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like

924
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,639
I don't have any yeah, and nobody I know has anything,

925
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,960
so like, clearly this narrative is fucking wrong, right, And

926
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
it's like, which which narrative are you? It sounds more

927
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,079
palatable to you? Is it that you and your like

928
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:20,440
group of like broke fucking guys you hang out with,

929
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:22,559
or the closet of anything wrong in the world, or

930
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,559
that you are the heir of a race of mighty

931
00:48:26,599 --> 00:48:30,039
conquerors who you know took over the entire planet in

932
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:34,159
a hundred years. And you know what I mean, It's

933
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,199
like which sounds better until like a seventeen year old

934
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,599
like fucking broke kid much better.

935
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: It's just it's so like anti intellect and anti you know,

936
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,119
critically thinking about anything around you. It's but yeah, no,

937
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,199
I mean it's it works. It's just again, it's just

938
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:54,159
one of those things where it's like the lowest comment denominator,

939
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:56,920
bottom of the brain stem, no offense to anybody, but

940
00:48:57,159 --> 00:49:01,480
you know, the easiest way out, the sloppiest, laziest minded

941
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,519
way to think about any of this stuff. And you

942
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:06,400
see the left doing it too, with versions of their

943
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:09,280
identitarianism shit like this guy that was like it's only

944
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,559
white people that do this. It's like what really, Like,

945
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:14,599
do you think the fucking alleles that code for melanin

946
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:18,559
production or lack thereof also code somehow for brutality or something?

947
00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:20,760
You don't think like like what do you where are

948
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,280
you going with this? You know, it's the same the

949
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,559
same shit, and it just ends up playing people. It's

950
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:30,599
just sports teams. You know. It's like it's fucking it's

951
00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:31,199
so depressed.

952
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,639
Speaker 2: And like the the main reason and why this is

953
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:38,199
happening both on the left and the right in particular

954
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,079
that it's huge exis on race as the explanatory sactors

955
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:45,559
for sucking everything is that crisis disappears from the fucking equation.

956
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,119
And so like right wing popularism, like let's think about it, right,

957
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,440
what is right wing populism. It's a bunch of like

958
00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:54,880
rich people in elite who are not saying that there

959
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,000
shouldn't be an elite. They're saying that they're wrong people

960
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:00,800
in elite. They're saying that there's a faction of the

961
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,400
elite that is, you know, it's the enemy within. Right,

962
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,320
there's a cabal so with like QAnon stuffs, like obviously

963
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,920
they're like satanic pedophiles, with like classic anti semitism. It's

964
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,960
that there's a cabal with Jews whatever. And like there's

965
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,280
also you know, there's like the World Economic Forum and

966
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,239
they're like the multi culturalist like you know, communist bankers

967
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:26,199
are trying to make it so that you own nothing

968
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,119
and be happy or whatever. Right, But it's all the

969
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,440
version of the same thing where they're like, it's not

970
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:32,800
that there shouldn't be any elite, is that it's the

971
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,440
wrong people. Right. So that's what right wing populism is.

972
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,239
It's one faction of the elite targeting another faction of

973
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,000
the elite and using populist rhetoric in order to do that. Right,

974
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,519
Because the elite has factions, they're not a united modelist.

975
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:47,480
I mean, they're united by class interests, but they have

976
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,239
other other interests as well, like political interests, right. And

977
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,480
so Donald Trump is like, really adapt at this, and

978
00:50:54,519 --> 00:50:57,119
it's also you know, it's been popping off all around

979
00:50:57,159 --> 00:51:03,440
the world. But there is a version of populism that

980
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,880
you can imagine that is, you know, less this and

981
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:09,719
what that would look like is saying that there should

982
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,599
be no elite. You know, there's no purpose for a

983
00:51:13,639 --> 00:51:18,760
class of parasite to own the entire economy and make

984
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,119
all of the political decisions. We don't need that, right,

985
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,400
we don't need any of these people. And that is

986
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,920
something that I think would be palatable to a lot

987
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,440
of people if it was ever fucking set. But it

988
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:33,639
isn't right, because the left, largely the ones that you

989
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,760
hear anyway, the lot of voices on the sort of

990
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,880
like so called progressive left are much more content to

991
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,880
say that like their version of like the elite that

992
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,719
has to be a RAS or whatever is just like

993
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,760
white people or like men or whatever, rather than the

994
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,119
easily identifiable group of people who have clear interests, material

995
00:51:54,159 --> 00:51:58,679
interests in maintaining their own power and a method of

996
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,639
doing so, which is that they're they old the means

997
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:05,360
of production right, and so like. Socialism has a bill

998
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:07,239
in response to all of this shit, but it's just

999
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,280
been more or less completely abandoned and or replaced with

1000
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:11,920
race as the exponentory aside the.

1001
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know well, America first off, is

1002
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,280
still living in this Reaganesque dream that it's morning in

1003
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,320
America and everybody can have their own private fucking golf

1004
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,960
course behind their house. And isn't it the dream to

1005
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:27,719
be rich? I mean, the value system here is fucked.

1006
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:31,719
It is the dominant value system. It's utterly fucked. It's corrupt,

1007
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:34,760
it's you know, it's based on wanting these shiny shit,

1008
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,760
this shiny shit that leaves you feeling fucking empty. You know,

1009
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,320
you can be, you can live, you can accumulate all

1010
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,480
this wealth, turn eighty years old being your deathbed, and

1011
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:45,679
then realize you've got no self insight. You never got

1012
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:49,079
to know yourself, You never learned art, you never fucking

1013
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,159
you know, had a wealth of experiences. All your half

1014
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:53,920
your friends were phony and only wanted to be around

1015
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,760
you because you're wealthy. You know this. It's this value

1016
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:02,719
system that holds wealth. This mindless, primary, evolutionarily obsolete, hearting

1017
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,079
complex that we have as the monkeys that we are,

1018
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,039
that holds that up is the prime' that's the prime thing. Again.

1019
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:13,440
It's just like this whole value systems fucked, and that's

1020
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,280
what kind of enables this. It's like, there should not

1021
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,800
be an elite. You say that to people here and

1022
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,840
they're like, oh, well, you don't want people to live

1023
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,760
comfortably and be rich, No, motherfuckers, I don't want people

1024
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,880
to own yachts. Like I want you to be comfortable

1025
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,280
and and have healthcare and you know, live in a

1026
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,039
decent sized house and have everything you need. But I

1027
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:35,239
don't think people need to own yachts or you know,

1028
00:53:35,519 --> 00:53:39,800
or fucking five hundred thousand acres of property or have

1029
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,880
fucking servants. I think that's deranged. That's mental illness. If

1030
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,960
you want that and you want more, you're mentally ill.

1031
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:50,440
That's a mental illness. That's like obsolete primate neurology fucking

1032
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,559
with you. But America is just not ready for that,

1033
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:54,000
you know.

1034
00:53:56,039 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I wonder no one ever fucking says

1035
00:53:58,519 --> 00:54:02,440
it to them though. Yeah, yeah, because it's disgusting to

1036
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,280
be rich. It's shameful to be rich.

1037
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:06,559
Speaker 1: It is to have that much, Yeah, to have what

1038
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:08,000
are you doing, like if you have if you have

1039
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:11,800
that much money, if a responsibility you know, to to

1040
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,840
to build schools, to fucking bring people up, that's your responsibility.

1041
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,440
If you have that much money, that's an incredible responsibility.

1042
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,159
You need to fucking be you know, investing in schools,

1043
00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:24,440
bringing What are you doing for your community? Motherfucker? What

1044
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:26,480
you give a couple of months a couple of you know,

1045
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:30,199
million dollars to philanthropic causes, Like that's nothing, do it yourself,

1046
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,360
you know, it's it's no one there shouldn't be a.

1047
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: Leg It's also just a sign that like the you know,

1048
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,159
the economic system is fucking.

1049
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: Broken, right exactly exactly, it's possible.

1050
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be possible to accumulate that much wealth, and

1051
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,559
in the meantime, we should absolutely be like advocating for

1052
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:50,880
prosperity for everyone.

1053
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:51,159
Speaker 1: Right.

1054
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 2: And this is like another like annoying thing about certain

1055
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,480
segment of the latch where they kind of spetishize poverty

1056
00:54:56,519 --> 00:55:00,000
a little bit and and or they like hate America

1057
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,079
a lot, right, like a lot of like malice like

1058
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:04,719
this where they're sort of like when you actually did

1059
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,280
down to shit, they're sort of like, we actually hate

1060
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,000
working class Americans because we hate.

1061
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: America or whatever, very very charming.

1062
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And it's like okay, cool, well, good

1063
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:21,000
luck trying to win anyone over with like the idea

1064
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:22,920
that everyone should be poorer. Like I don't think that

1065
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,239
everyone should be poorer, I think everyone should be more prosperous,

1066
00:55:25,519 --> 00:55:29,360
but like, yeah, it should be absolutely impossible to accumulate,

1067
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,559
you know, ten thousand times more money than the person

1068
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:33,199
who works for you.

1069
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: Right, It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, I don't.

1070
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:40,920
That's what it is. It's the America still conflates prosperity

1071
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,800
with being rich, like not just comfortable or upper middle class,

1072
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,960
but with being rich having way more than you need,

1073
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:51,840
having servants, having yachts, having all this fancy shit. That's

1074
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,079
Nut's like again, you can live your entire life like

1075
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:57,320
that and feel fucking empty. It's you know, I feel

1076
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,559
prosperous right now because of the people in my life,

1077
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:03,880
the experiences I have, the art I make. I'm still

1078
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,400
learning this, you know. I'm fucking forty one. I'm still

1079
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,760
learning a shit ton about the world around me. I'm

1080
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,320
just generally stoked on life. I'm not loaded. You know.

1081
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,280
I'm able to make a living doing what I love,

1082
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,000
and that's good enough for me. I don't need any more.

1083
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,119
I'm fucking fine, man. I don't want any more. I

1084
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:22,559
don't want the responsibility, you know, to have more and

1085
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:25,679
keep wanting it. That is, it's a fucking mental illness.

1086
00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:28,039
But I think again, that's an American thing. That's like

1087
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:32,639
the corrupted value system we have. That's the result of indoctrination.

1088
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,760
You know. I put this post up today talking about

1089
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,000
how how can one person own five hundred thousand acres?

1090
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,519
How can one person own a fucking mountain? And a

1091
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:42,800
couple people and you go to the profile, it's always

1092
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,599
the fucking same. Assuming it's not about it's like some

1093
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,760
dude posing with this car right you go, and the

1094
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,639
people comment thing are like, oh I want I want that,

1095
00:56:50,639 --> 00:56:53,440
that's baller status. It's like, God, what a fucking knob.

1096
00:56:53,679 --> 00:56:55,639
I don't say this, but I'm just thinking, like what

1097
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,239
a dummy, what a fucking empty headed? Really that's what

1098
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,519
you want? You want to fucking own? Like that's such

1099
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:05,480
a like bottom of the brainstem fucking value system, Like

1100
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,360
I want to travel, man, I want to go have

1101
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,840
some crazy experiences. I want to almost die. I want

1102
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,159
to almost get rid of I want to have like

1103
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,320
crazy shit, not hurt anybody, but learn a ton, make

1104
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,199
people happy, inspire people around me, make uard all this

1105
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,760
shit Like I could write down a fucking list, you know,

1106
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,559
And and all you want is to own some shiny shit,

1107
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:25,960
a new fucking car that makes a roombrom sound when

1108
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,920
you step on it, and like and a bunch of

1109
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:30,360
shit that you're not gonna be able to use, you

1110
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,039
can't take with you when you die, Like oh man,

1111
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:35,599
it drives me nuts. It's just like, come on, man,

1112
00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:38,000
there's more than this, Like aim higher, motherfucker, what are

1113
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:38,559
you doing? You know?

1114
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: It's yeah, for sure, it's the the ideological apparatus that

1115
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:49,760
has been set up in the West to broadcast the

1116
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,000
interest of the ultra rich at the population and convince

1117
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:56,800
them that those are their interests is off the chain, man.

1118
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,320
Like they've done an extraordinarily good job of that, you know,

1119
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:01,760
And so it's part of the work of socialists to

1120
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,960
try to counteract that. Not easy, definitely not easy. But

1121
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:09,840
we've been failing, really fucked hard. And you know, the

1122
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,760
fallow of unionism is a big part of this too.

1123
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,639
You know, they fucking destroyed all the unions in the

1124
00:58:13,679 --> 00:58:15,800
eighties and nineties, and now no one's in the union, right.

1125
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,000
Unions were one of the best ways to make people

1126
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,880
understand that their cross position had something to do with

1127
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,599
their fucking status in life, right, and that they had

1128
00:58:23,639 --> 00:58:25,800
interests in calling with other people of their class. And like,

1129
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,119
you know, the unions are really suffering right now.

1130
00:58:30,159 --> 00:58:30,639
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

1131
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,719
Speaker 2: Well, there is like some movement in that area, which

1132
00:58:32,719 --> 00:58:33,320
is kind of cool.

1133
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's not I mean, I worked for

1134
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,360
you know, the railroad for fifteen years, and when I

1135
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,280
first hired out, the first five years, there were still

1136
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,360
a lot of old guys left hired out in the seventies,

1137
00:58:43,679 --> 00:58:47,519
which was like the heyday of the American working class.

1138
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:49,840
Like there was like you could you could not have

1139
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,239
a college degree and get a decent job then own

1140
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:55,239
a house and things were somewhat affordable. There was some

1141
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,119
fucking hiccups along the way, of course, in a decade,

1142
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:01,719
but you know, it was still like there was a

1143
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,719
viable working class. I mean you could live comfortably without

1144
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,800
being ultra wealthy and also not have to worry about stuff,

1145
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,199
and your kids would be okay, et cetera. And these

1146
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:12,840
guys would tell me about it, and they'd tell me

1147
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,320
about like the company was different than to the railroad company,

1148
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,000
like the it just wasn't the The company was kind

1149
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,559
of like intimidated to a degree by the employees, you know,

1150
00:59:22,679 --> 00:59:25,320
like they was before all the strike breaking. I mean

1151
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,639
it was like and so they would behave, they would

1152
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:31,039
be the company would behave much more respectfully than they

1153
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,400
do now. And they knew, like, oh, we already know

1154
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,719
you can't strike, you can't do anything. We fucking own

1155
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,400
you go. You know, you can go take a hike

1156
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,840
and find another job if you don't like it. It's

1157
00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:42,440
it's nice to see what's been lost and people have

1158
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,199
no idea. I mean some people do, but a lot

1159
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:48,400
of people don't. And you know, again, mice voting for cats.

1160
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,480
It's fucking crazy, man.

1161
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, I don't know.

1162
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:54,079
Speaker 1: So.

1163
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, my grandmother was a was a railroad union organizer.

1164
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: Oh no, shit, did you tell that before? You had

1165
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,679
to have I think maybe not. Wow, that's pretty cool.

1166
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:05,719
Where in Montreal.

1167
01:00:08,039 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: No, my mom grew up in like a railroad company

1168
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:17,840
town in northern Ontario, and everybody there works for the

1169
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,760
mind of the railroad. And yeah, her mom was a

1170
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:22,559
union organizer.

1171
01:00:23,039 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: Damn, man, that's cool. Yeah, it's it's a I mean,

1172
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,559
they're working for the railroad now is kind of a joke.

1173
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:31,920
A bunch of people have quit. They're trying to consistently

1174
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,960
trying to raise health insurance costs so the company pays less.

1175
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,239
They wanted to get rid of it entirely. It just

1176
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,360
be like, you guys, go find your own health insurance

1177
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,199
plan and we'll help you, will help you, but you

1178
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,679
guys are on your own. We're not paying into it anymore.

1179
01:00:46,719 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: You know.

1180
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,039
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, because it used to be this thing

1181
01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:50,679
they would just deduct it from your paycheck and the

1182
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:52,760
company would pay half no more, like they just it

1183
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,480
the balls they have. They just keep trying to take more.

1184
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,599
It's insane, man, like, just more and more more little

1185
01:00:58,639 --> 01:01:01,719
bites and people or for it, Like you get these

1186
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,280
dudes who are just like, well, I don't mind, I

1187
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,559
never use it anyway. It's like you're fucking twenty seven.

1188
01:01:06,639 --> 01:01:08,760
Maybe you might need use it in fifteen years, Like

1189
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,880
this job works on you. I mean, you're gonna get

1190
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,079
diabetes from not moving in fifteen years and sitting in

1191
01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:16,960
a locomotive cabal day. What the fuck do you ever

1192
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,599
think about that? I mean, yeah, I don't know. I

1193
01:01:20,639 --> 01:01:23,039
don't know anyway. It's alarming to me. And that's why

1194
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:25,079
I appreciate you making the time to talk to me

1195
01:01:25,119 --> 01:01:29,320
about it, because you're always more lucid and more clear

1196
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,320
and more articulate than I could ever be about this

1197
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:32,000
kind of stuff.

1198
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I appreciate that.

1199
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think? What do you think the

1200
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,360
future is here? Like do you think I mean, in

1201
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,800
terms of any of this, at least in America. I

1202
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,719
know you're viewing it as an outsider, but maybe that

1203
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,039
gives you a better lens, Like where do you think

1204
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:51,719
stuff's gonna go, Like, what do you have hope or

1205
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:52,639
what do you think?

1206
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not hopeless. I mean sometimes you look at

1207
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,320
it and it's pretty pretty doom and gloom. One thing

1208
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,199
that I try to remind myself of is that, like

1209
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:07,920
when things seem like really really stuck, it's often because

1210
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:13,119
there's enormous underlying tension. It's kind of like continental plates

1211
01:02:13,159 --> 01:02:15,559
like rubbing against each other, you know, and like we're

1212
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:17,400
not moving, but the reason they're not moving is because

1213
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,679
there's all this pressure on them. And then without pressure

1214
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,639
gives you get an enormous earthquake or whatever. And we

1215
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,360
really get it that way, Like, there is the possibility

1216
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,920
for some very great changes to happen in the near future,

1217
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,239
near to medium term future. What those are, I think

1218
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,679
depends on a great degree on whether or not the

1219
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,880
American Last is able to get a shit together, because

1220
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,960
if it's not, the change is likely to just be

1221
01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:47,960
like a pivot to like full fascism.

1222
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:51,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, that's what I worry about. The oligarchs

1223
01:02:51,639 --> 01:02:54,400
are not going to give things up easily. They're not

1224
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,719
gonna You're never gonna have healthcare without a fight. You're

1225
01:02:57,719 --> 01:03:00,519
never gonna you know, it's not. And you've got so

1226
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:03,599
many people that have been duped and brainwashed in the

1227
01:03:03,639 --> 01:03:07,039
working class to vote for like the worst of the

1228
01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:11,320
too bad options. It's it's I don't know.

1229
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:15,079
Speaker 2: Man, I wouldn't even say. I don't even like, I

1230
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:18,480
don't know. It's it's interesting because like the Trump camp

1231
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,639
is clearly the more it's clearly the one that is

1232
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:26,559
more happy to use kind of like Sashist like rhetoric

1233
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:31,079
and imagery. But interestingly, the Democrats and the sort of

1234
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:35,239
like mainstream political establishment in the US. I mean, you know,

1235
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,599
the main the mainstream political establishment in the US are

1236
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:42,800
the ones who you know, assassinated Martin Luther King and

1237
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,760
you know, like every single civil rights leader, and they're

1238
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:50,599
they're the ones who are really really intent on holding

1239
01:03:50,639 --> 01:03:54,039
on to power by all means necessary. And there's a possibility,

1240
01:03:54,679 --> 01:03:59,760
I think that if the Trump camp is too heavy

1241
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:04,880
hand ended with its like attempt to radically reorganize what

1242
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,480
the state looks like in the US, there's a possibility

1243
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:09,559
that like the faction of the elite that as opposed

1244
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:13,920
to that could act also in a fascist way, right,

1245
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:18,800
where they like consolidate power and attempt to sort of

1246
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,360
like clamp down on on challenges to their own power

1247
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,440
right and declare like a state of emergency whatever, like

1248
01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:29,679
literally like either side is totally capable of it, which

1249
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:31,199
is another thing that I think a lot of progresses

1250
01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:33,599
in the US or just like totally like they don't

1251
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:35,639
want to look at you know, but it's not like

1252
01:04:35,679 --> 01:04:39,119
the fucking mainstream political establishment in the US is above

1253
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,519
you know, climping down on opposition, right, like even if

1254
01:04:43,519 --> 01:04:45,840
the opposition is coming from the right, because like again

1255
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,519
you have to remember that like having a fucking like

1256
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:53,159
blood soaked like white nationalist revolution or something is like

1257
01:04:53,199 --> 01:04:56,119
not in the interest of like the guys who runt PepsiCo, right,

1258
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:59,320
Like they don't like, they don't.

1259
01:04:59,159 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: Want that right right, Right. There's plenty of business interests

1260
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,760
that probably don't want Trump too because they realize he's

1261
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,920
a crazy motherfucker and he's too volatile and has no

1262
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,840
idea what he's doing economically, and he could really fuck

1263
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:12,840
things up for them, you know.

1264
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, because he basically makes decisions based on like

1265
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,719
vibes and like what he sees on Fox News or whatever.

1266
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean either way, man, it's I

1267
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,000
don't know, it's yeah, it's I'm not trying to be

1268
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:26,079
a doom sayer, but I just that's why I look

1269
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:28,920
at plants. I try not to spend too much time

1270
01:05:30,039 --> 01:05:32,800
focusing on it. Again, I just I read the comments

1271
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,559
from what seemed to be working class people saying all

1272
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:39,920
this this right wing propaganda, you know, and I'm just like,

1273
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,159
I'm just fucking thrown off. Man, I'm so confused, you know,

1274
01:05:43,159 --> 01:05:45,639
I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, how do we get here?

1275
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,960
You know? But anyway, I.

1276
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 2: Mean again, like my advice to Americans is, like, every

1277
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,639
single one of you who care about the shit, you

1278
01:05:53,679 --> 01:05:56,679
have to join you're nearest like left the organization and

1279
01:05:56,719 --> 01:05:58,320
whatever the fuck it is, and no matter how stupid

1280
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,519
it is, and then advocate instantly and consistently for it

1281
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:04,559
to join up with other less learned organizations until you

1282
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:07,599
have something that looks like a coalition party, and then

1283
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:12,320
you need to purge like all the most insane rhetoric.

1284
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,119
Stop saying it, Try as much as possible to not

1285
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:19,400
sound insane, like stop race dating. Try as much as

1286
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,760
possible to focus on class at all times, because it

1287
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,400
is something that even though Americans hate talking about it,

1288
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,320
they do understand to a certain degree that they're getting

1289
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,400
fucked by the elite right, and you got to find

1290
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,760
the right way to talk about it, the right way

1291
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,719
to reach them. And you got to say, both the

1292
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,760
Democrats and the Republicans are fucking evil and they don't

1293
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,360
care about you, and like, here are a number of

1294
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:40,960
proposals that we have there are going to make your

1295
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,920
life much much better, you know. And this is like

1296
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,960
a medium to long term goal. It would take probably

1297
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,519
thirty years to build up like a party that was

1298
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:52,079
capable of really contesting elections. But it is not an

1299
01:06:52,119 --> 01:06:54,599
impossible thing. The United States has not always been a

1300
01:06:54,599 --> 01:06:56,960
two party system, and people forget that. It's like I've

1301
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,280
talked about this on the internet and people are just like, oh, well,

1302
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,719
you don't understand America. And I'm like, no, I understand

1303
01:07:01,719 --> 01:07:03,920
that it's very entrenched. You have a two party system,

1304
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,280
but there's nothing like it's not like in a fucking

1305
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,559
constitution or something, you know. And like in the past,

1306
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:13,119
there have been like insurgent parties that have popped up

1307
01:07:13,159 --> 01:07:16,360
and fucking you know, influenced power. Right, So it's not

1308
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,639
an impossible thing. And and I think that like people

1309
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:20,800
really have to break with the Democrats the Democrats are

1310
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,639
not going to say there they never work.

1311
01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems it all seems so hard to break

1312
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,960
with that and form a third party. But I mean, yeah,

1313
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,280
there there's a huge contingent of the modern American left

1314
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:35,880
that's just insane or at least behaving extremely irrationally, you know,

1315
01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:39,440
and thinks that, you know, the strategies that they're keeping

1316
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,199
keeping up with is actually going to change things. And

1317
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,480
it doesn't. Like all you build, all you end up

1318
01:07:44,519 --> 01:07:49,639
building is a political culture built on shame and fear

1319
01:07:49,679 --> 01:07:54,599
of social ostracization. And you know, it's just it sucks.

1320
01:07:54,719 --> 01:07:57,679
It sucks for everybody, and those people aren't even really

1321
01:07:57,679 --> 01:07:59,639
they may really have your back. Everyone's just afraid of

1322
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:03,840
getting canceled or shit talked or were not agreeing with

1323
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,199
the the towing the line one hundred and everything. It's

1324
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,280
nuts again. Just yeah, focus focus on class man, and

1325
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,320
the rest will fall into place. I feel like that's

1326
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,479
just the number one thing. And yeah, and of course

1327
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,600
have a good a good lens on ecology and the

1328
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,560
living biosphere around you, which I feel like any anybody,

1329
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,920
everybody should have. So anyway, man, well thanks thanks a

1330
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:27,520
lot for doing this.

1331
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, man, I always amazingly to talk to you,

1332
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,319
and I hope the rest of your day it was

1333
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:35,199
really good, okay, all

1334
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:38,520
Speaker 1: Right man, Thanks a lot, take care bye,