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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
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Speaker 5: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 3: Good Evening. In their book A Special Kind of Evil
Speaker 3: The Colonial Parkway Serial Killings, authors Blaine Pardo and Victoria
Speaker 3: Hester wrote about Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. Who was the
Speaker 3: prime suspect in the nineteen eighty eight disappearance and murders
Speaker 3: of Richard Keith Call and Cassandra Hailey. He was under
Speaker 3: police surveillance and fit the criminal profile the FBI had developed.
Speaker 3: An expert polygrapher administered an exam to Wilmer and he passed.
Speaker 3: As a result, he was cleared as a suspect. On
Speaker 3: January eighth, twenty twenty four, the Virginia State Police announced
Speaker 3: that through DNA, Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, who died in
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, has been identified as the killer of David
Speaker 3: Nobling and Robert Edwards, who were written about extensively in
Speaker 3: a Special Kind of Evil, and for the killing of
Speaker 3: a nearby Hampton, Virginia woman, Teresa Lynn Howell in nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty nine. Blaine Pardo joins me now to discuss the
Speaker 3: latest developments in the Colonial Parkway serial killings, Alan Wade
Speaker 3: Wilmer Senior, the FBI agent who zeroed in on Wilmer,
Speaker 3: and what's next in the ongoing Colonial park Way murder investigation.
Speaker 3: Tonight's program is a Special Kind of Evil, the Colonial
Speaker 3: Parkway Serial Killings and Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. With my
Speaker 3: special guest journalist and author Blaine part Oh. Welcome to
Speaker 3: the program. Thank you very much for this interview, Blaine
Speaker 3: part Oh.
Speaker 6: Great to be back on talking with you, especially with
Speaker 6: news like this.
Speaker 3: Well, let's get right to this. You are the author
Speaker 3: of a Special Kind of Evil, and that's how you
Speaker 3: came to this case. That book was released in twenty
Speaker 3: seventeen with your co author daughter Victoria Hester, and that's
Speaker 3: a wild blue press release. Tell us where you were
Speaker 3: and the circumstances and the news that you heard surrounding
Speaker 3: case that you talk about in a Special kind of
Speaker 3: Evil Well.
Speaker 6: I was online actually at the time, and friend of
Speaker 6: mine associated with the case reached out to me and said,
Speaker 6: you're going to want to tune in. They're doing a
Speaker 6: press conference on the Colonial Parkway murders. So I pulled
Speaker 6: it up and caught it as it was starting, watched
Speaker 6: it unfold, and I gotta say it was kind of
Speaker 6: a gut punch. What they had revealed was that the
Speaker 6: Colonial Parkway murders is a series of eight murders. These
Speaker 6: people were always killed in couples in the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 6: started in nineteen eighty six and etc. And they've often
Speaker 6: been referred to as like the Lover's Lane type murders
Speaker 6: and things.
Speaker 7: Along those lines.
Speaker 6: But they had announced that two of those crimes, that
Speaker 6: of David Nobling and Robin Edwards and of another person,
Speaker 6: had been solved and had been solved with DNA evidence.
Speaker 6: And they splashed the guy's picture up during the press conference,
Speaker 6: and I didn't recognize him at first. When they showed
Speaker 6: his truck and I saw his Vanity license plate, Gotta
Speaker 6: tell you, a chill went up my spy right it
Speaker 6: was I had interviewed IRV Wells, who was the special
Speaker 6: Agent in charge for the FBI on the Call Haley case,
Speaker 6: and he had told me about their prime suspect in
Speaker 6: that case, who four days after they had brought the couple,
Speaker 6: had disappeared. They had basically had this guy under surveillance
Speaker 6: an issue to a search warren On's property, and they
Speaker 6: had cleared him due to polygraph test. And IRV told me,
Speaker 6: he said the back of my mind, he said, I
Speaker 6: knew we had the right guy. He fit our profile
Speaker 6: from the very first murder. He was a known stalker
Speaker 6: on the Colonial Parkway confronting people. We had him, and
Speaker 6: he said, I've always felt like we let him go,
Speaker 6: but you know, he said, we had our best polygraph
Speaker 6: person POLLI him and said, this guy was perfectly fine.
Speaker 6: And when I saw his license plate, I'd even put
Speaker 6: a variant of the license plate in the book because
Speaker 6: at the time I didn't want to put the guy's
Speaker 6: actual license plate and had people harass him and stuff.
Speaker 6: When the FBI had cleared him. Now I look at
Speaker 6: it and go they had him all along. They had
Speaker 6: this guy pinned on the murders that followed, it didn't
Speaker 6: capture him.
Speaker 3: Tell our audience plain about the Waterman profile that's created,
Speaker 3: who created it and what you're referring to when you
Speaker 3: say watermen.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, in Virginia and in the Chesapeake Bay area,
Speaker 6: watermen is kind of a it's almost a cultural group
Speaker 6: of fishermen. Some of them are oyster fishermen, some are crabbers,
Speaker 6: some are just fishermen fishermen. They have their own dialect
Speaker 6: that they speak in. They're very much a closed culture
Speaker 6: and in some of it it dates right back to
Speaker 6: the colonial period during the first pair of mergers, which
Speaker 6: were the Tomasdowski murders. Initially, the FBI thought that it
Speaker 6: was a lover's triangle and they focused in on a
Speaker 6: very close circle of friends around the two victims. They
Speaker 6: then realized that it wasn't and when they happened, they
Speaker 6: put together a profile and the FBI behavioral profilers for
Speaker 6: it put together a profile.
Speaker 7: It said, it's.
Speaker 6: Most likely a waterman because the Colonial Parkway kind of
Speaker 6: sneaks along the York River where a lot of the
Speaker 6: watermen fish. And they said, you know, watterman would have
Speaker 6: diesel fuel, which was how the Tomastowski car was hit.
Speaker 6: The knife used in those murders was a considered to
Speaker 6: be a long curved blade, very sharp, which would also
Speaker 6: be a fisherman's.
Speaker 7: Type blade, right, And they.
Speaker 6: Said, whoever did this was probably someone who had a
Speaker 6: reputation and even potentially a legal problems with stalking people
Speaker 6: on the Parkway, that this was, you know, somebody who
Speaker 6: operated in the parkway. Well, the FBI on the third
Speaker 6: set of murders dusted that profile off and that's what
Speaker 6: Well told me, And he said, we started to look
Speaker 6: at people that were cruising the parkway who were stalking people,
Speaker 6: and it turns out that they actually had one and
Speaker 6: he had a very distinctive license plate in a truck
Speaker 6: and was identified. The FBI found this guy, and when
Speaker 6: they found him, they started doing surveillance on him. And
Speaker 6: this is four days after the call Haley murder, which
Speaker 6: are the pure murders that follow those that have been
Speaker 6: recently solved last week. And as they were following him,
Speaker 6: he started to vacuum ount his truck, paint the back
Speaker 6: of the truck bed, and things along those lines, which
Speaker 6: seemed like the kind of behavior of somebody trying to
Speaker 6: cover up evidence. They got a search warrant. They found pornography,
Speaker 6: they found handcuffs, a gun, etc. They brought the guy
Speaker 6: in and bollyed him and he cleared, so they took
Speaker 6: him off their radar. And it turns out he is
Speaker 6: the suspect now and has been named as a person
Speaker 6: who committed the murders of Robin Edwards and David Knobling
Speaker 6: and one other person.
Speaker 3: You write in your book a special kind of evil.
Speaker 3: You talk about though he lives with his brother. So
Speaker 3: he lives with his brother, and it wasn't you didn't
Speaker 3: distinguish between which brother these agents. You write that the
Speaker 3: agents would do these dry bys to see what kind
Speaker 3: of whatever they could discern from outside of his trailer,
Speaker 3: and that's when they spotted him painting the truck bed
Speaker 3: a spray painting the truck bed and vacuum them out
Speaker 3: the truck. And so you say that they didn't distinguish,
Speaker 3: or you don't distinguish in the book between which brother
Speaker 3: was also a murder suspect in another county and which
Speaker 3: brother was painting the bed of the truck.
Speaker 6: Yeah, didn't do it at the time because I didn't
Speaker 6: have the information from the FBI on him. Irvwells was
Speaker 6: always a professional. He was retired at the time. I
Speaker 6: interviewed him and he was very reluctant to actually give
Speaker 6: me the guy's name.
Speaker 7: And I think some of that was due to his memory.
Speaker 6: I don't think he remembered the guy's name exactly wow,
Speaker 6: which really didn't give me much to go on. What
Speaker 6: he did give me was the license plate, which I
Speaker 6: changed in the books slightly. I just didn't want people
Speaker 6: harassing someone that the FBI had cleared.
Speaker 7: In the case. So it was one of those things.
Speaker 6: I saw the license plate, That's when it clicked with me,
Speaker 6: the concept that this guy would be vacuuming out that truck.
Speaker 6: Those pictures were clearly taken by the FBI of his vehicle,
Speaker 6: and they showed at the press conference, and it just
Speaker 6: was ridiculous. He was clearly trying to conceal evidence at
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about before we talk about the crimes that
Speaker 3: he has now been linked to through this new DNA
Speaker 3: technology and new revisiting the crime again through DNA analysis,
Speaker 3: we talk about me. One of the victims, Teresa Lynn Howell,
Speaker 3: a twenty nine year old, and she was last seen
Speaker 3: at about two thirty am in the city of Hampton, Virginia.
Speaker 3: Tell us what's the distance between Hampton and Williamsburg, where
Speaker 3: the Colonial Parkway area is, and tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit more about what about Teresa Lynn's Howell's murder and
Speaker 3: the particulars.
Speaker 6: I really don't have a lot on her murder because
Speaker 6: at the time she wasn't at all connected to what
Speaker 6: we knew as the Colonial Parkway murders. I'm just now
Speaker 6: starting to crawl through some She was last seen at
Speaker 6: a club called the Zodia Club and was found murdered
Speaker 6: as a result of that. They The distance were we're
Speaker 6: talking about is always interesting because people, when they look
Speaker 6: at a map, go, oh, that seems so far. But
Speaker 6: all of the Colonial Parkway murders are within twenty minutes
Speaker 6: of each other, depending on which roads.
Speaker 7: You're on and how you get there.
Speaker 6: So you're really only talking a twenty minute drive from
Speaker 6: where she disappeared to the Colonial Parkway, and the probably
Speaker 6: only about a ten minute drive to Ragged Island where
Speaker 6: David and Robin were kill You know, these aren't huge
Speaker 6: distances that have to be covered once out of the
Speaker 6: murders took place in New Kent County, which is about
Speaker 6: a fifteen minute drive by sixty four. But again, you
Speaker 6: know on a map it can look like they're kind
Speaker 6: of spread apart, and a lot of people have said
Speaker 6: over the years, well, you know they're not connected because
Speaker 6: of all this distance, and you look at the distances
Speaker 6: Ted Money operated under when he committed his crimes, et cetera.
Speaker 6: These are relatively close. And the fact is, the FBI
Speaker 6: profilers and the Virginia State Police profilers have said on
Speaker 6: the record and have stated for the press as well
Speaker 6: as for my interviews that these crimes aren't connected. They
Speaker 6: definitely are linked, and to me, I think that's important.
Speaker 6: I think that the fact that they were able to
Speaker 6: solve too through DNA testing doesn't mean that the others
Speaker 6: aren't connected to this person. It just means they don't
Speaker 6: have the forensic evidence to tie them to them. You're
Speaker 6: talking early nineteen eighties, DNA technology wasn't being used to
Speaker 6: solve crimes, so the fact that we had any was great,
Speaker 6: It was great news.
Speaker 3: You right about that, and that they don't have enough
Speaker 3: evidence at this time and so you stress that. But
Speaker 3: it's very interesting the law enforcement tip line asking for
Speaker 3: the public's help in light of this information coming out,
Speaker 3: and they state that we recognize relationships and loyalties change
Speaker 3: over time, as to people and their perspectives. There are
Speaker 3: occasions where people who may have had knowledge of an
Speaker 3: incident didn't feel comfortable coming forward with the information in
Speaker 3: the past, but we would want them to know that
Speaker 3: it's not too late for them to come forward. And
Speaker 3: so they described the vehicle, and they also say that
Speaker 3: he also drove a white pickup truck, a van, and
Speaker 3: a silver nineteen eighty nine Ford one point fifty and
Speaker 3: he had a commercial boat, fishing boat called the Demi Wade.
Speaker 3: And of course all of these photos you've have on
Speaker 3: Wild Blue Press website as well accompanying your description of
Speaker 3: new developments in this case. It's very interesting too that
Speaker 3: they asked for anyone who had worked with him in
Speaker 3: the oyster business, anybody had worked with him in the
Speaker 3: landscaping business, anybody that docked near him at the marina.
Speaker 3: Virtually anybody that had any contact with him at all
Speaker 3: was encouraged to come forward and speak to the police.
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's important you got to remember too
Speaker 6: these cases Cassandra Haley and Keith call their bodies were
Speaker 6: never recovered. We don't know what happened to him. Their
Speaker 6: car was found on the Colonial Parkway with their clothes
Speaker 6: in it in April. The park rangers at the time
Speaker 6: tried to perpetuate a story that they thought they had
Speaker 6: gone skinny dipping, and trust me, I live in Virginia.
Speaker 6: You don't want to go skinny dipping in New York
Speaker 6: River in April.
Speaker 7: It's cold. It's real cold, you know they were.
Speaker 6: I think that's where their car was deposited, was on
Speaker 6: the Colonial Parkway Murder less than a mile from where
Speaker 6: the first victims were killed. The Colonial Parkway, I might
Speaker 6: add they were intercepted as they left a party at
Speaker 6: the University Square apartments in Newport News area, and you know,
Speaker 6: Keith was going to be taking Cassandra home. And I
Speaker 6: think it's important that they look not just at the
Speaker 6: people that are connected to him, because they may have
Speaker 6: information about Gee. It was weird that he went out
Speaker 6: on the boat the day after Colin Haley disappeared. He
Speaker 6: went out fishing and it wasn't like him. Maybe that's
Speaker 6: what they're looking for, you know, since the bodies have
Speaker 6: never been found. I also think it's important to look
Speaker 6: at all the people that were at the party that
Speaker 6: night where Keith and Cassandra Werek did anyone at the party,
Speaker 6: see this person there, Did they see him in the
Speaker 6: parking lot of the party, did they see his truck
Speaker 6: anywhere in that vicinity? Because we know that they were
Speaker 6: intercepted before he got Cassandra home, which was only a
Speaker 6: ten or fifteen minut drive away at most. Somewhere between
Speaker 6: that party and her house is where they engaged whoever
Speaker 6: killed them, you know, And now that you have picture
Speaker 6: of the person, now that you have a picture of
Speaker 6: the trucks and vehicles that he drove, Now that you
Speaker 6: have that information, it really does help you because it
Speaker 6: may trigger some memories with people who go, oh, my god,
Speaker 6: I saw that guy that night at the party, or
Speaker 6: he was talking to them in the park even think
Speaker 6: about it until I saw that picture. So I think
Speaker 6: you're going to see is a sturge now of what
Speaker 6: I would call circumstantial evidence right that comes forward. It's
Speaker 6: not forensic, but it's I think you're going to get
Speaker 6: people that say, yeah, this is what he may have
Speaker 6: told me when he was drunk, or this is what
Speaker 6: I saw that night or a different night.
Speaker 7: We know this guy was a.
Speaker 6: Hunter as well, And where the last two victimslwur Phelps
Speaker 6: were found was a turkey hunting area. You know, they
Speaker 6: were found by hunters six weeks after they disappeared in
Speaker 6: New Kent County at the rest area. So putting that
Speaker 6: vehicle out there and putting his picture out there is
Speaker 6: bound to trigger some memories with people. And I'm hoping
Speaker 6: that the FBI and the Virginia State Police are going
Speaker 6: back to the people who own that property and saying,
Speaker 6: you know, you had a hunting club that operated in
Speaker 6: this property. Was this guy ever on that property?
Speaker 7: You know? Did he have familiar with it? Did he
Speaker 7: know that area?
Speaker 6: Did he hunt there? Things along those lines. And I
Speaker 6: think that's what the FBI and Virginia State Police, I
Speaker 6: would hope are looking for at this point, are ways
Speaker 6: to connect him to those crimes and perhaps other crimes
Speaker 6: that we've never associated with. The Colonial Parkway murders.
Speaker 3: Do you know how he was linked DNA wise to
Speaker 3: the rape and murder of Robin Edwards and Teresa Lynn Howell?
Speaker 3: Was it through that DNA and the sperm collected at
Speaker 3: that time?
Speaker 6: Yes, I did talk with a retired Virginia State Police
Speaker 6: officer who worked in both that case in Ragged Island
Speaker 6: as well as the Phelpslower case up in New Kent, and.
Speaker 7: I spoke with him about it.
Speaker 6: I said, you either had to have gotten the DNA
Speaker 6: from Robin Edwards, who we knew was sexually assaulted that night,
Speaker 6: or had had intercourse that night. We know with who,
Speaker 6: so you know it could have been with David. No,
Speaker 6: we don't know, but you know, I said, you either
Speaker 6: had to have gotten it there or would have had
Speaker 6: you'd have to use like m VAK or some other
Speaker 6: technique to extract it from their clothing. Now, the vehicle
Speaker 6: was very poorly handled. They didn't think that these guys
Speaker 6: were dead, so they towed it to his father's yard
Speaker 6: and it wasn't until his father was present when they
Speaker 6: found the bodies that they went out and started fingerprinting
Speaker 6: the car. And I even talked to Andy Parks, was
Speaker 6: one of the journalists who's been covering the Colonial park reamers,
Speaker 6: and he goes, I feel terrible, he said, I sat
Speaker 6: in there David's trut when I did my piece, and
Speaker 6: I said, well, you left trace DNA evidence. That's how
Speaker 6: poorly the crime scene was handled. But you know, the
Speaker 6: general belief is that it was recovered from a sperm
Speaker 6: sample that was left in Robin Edwards, and that somehow
Speaker 6: that has been protected and maintained all this time. At
Speaker 6: least that was what I had. They got DNA sample
Speaker 6: from him. This guy who did this, this Alan Wade
Speaker 6: Wilmer Sor, he never committed a felony, so they never
Speaker 6: had a DNA sample from him in their database.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: But when he died, his body lay there for a
Speaker 6: very long period of time before it was discovered, and
Speaker 6: they took DNA as part of the identification process to
Speaker 6: identify the body. Once they had that sample, they had
Speaker 6: something to compare the cats.
Speaker 3: Very very interesting. Before we talk about David Nobling and
Speaker 3: Robin Edwards and their murder and how the police conducted
Speaker 3: that investigation, but more importantly, let's talk about, just briefly
Speaker 3: about how in what way all of these cases are connected.
Speaker 6: The initial thing that you look at is with all
Speaker 6: the Colonial Parkway murders, when they're committed, there are always couples,
Speaker 6: and they're not necessarily romantic couples. They're just people that
Speaker 6: are together that are killed. And so right off the bat,
Speaker 6: that's an abnormality to have people killed in couples in
Speaker 6: a very tight geographic area. So that stood out And
Speaker 6: as we started digging into this, and Neraafoget was talking
Speaker 6: with the profiler who did this for the Virginia State Police,
Speaker 6: and we started looking at the case of Robin Edwards
Speaker 6: and David Nobling. The keys were left in the car okay,
Speaker 6: and the radio was on, the door was a jar.
Speaker 6: It was clearly someone had left those keys there and
Speaker 6: was drawing attention to the vehicle and hopes that someone
Speaker 6: would steal the vehicle, further making it difficult for the
Speaker 6: police to investigate. Your first inclination be heay, you stole
Speaker 6: this truck, you must have killed them.
Speaker 7: We also see.
Speaker 6: The exact same thing though in the case of Carl Hayley.
Speaker 6: The keys are left in the vehicle and in that
Speaker 6: case the door was left ajar, so the interior light
Speaker 6: was on so that people would see it. Then you
Speaker 6: get to Phelps Lour which is out on I sixty
Speaker 6: four vehicles left the exit ramp from the rest area
Speaker 6: with a roach clip hanging on the window. Keys clearly
Speaker 6: left insight in the car. And I went back Larry
Speaker 6: Man Mchanna had done the profiling for the Virginia State Police,
Speaker 6: and I said, you know, we've looked at this and
Speaker 6: in three of the case latter three cases, every one
Speaker 6: of them, the vehicle was left with keys and the
Speaker 6: ignition almost like they're kind of trying to draw attention
Speaker 6: to the vehicle someone would steal it. And he goes,
Speaker 6: that's your fingerprint. He goes, that was something we recognized
Speaker 6: that this killer was doing. And the last three pairs
Speaker 6: of crimes, he did not do this with the very
Speaker 6: first pair, but he did it each time. Didn't work,
Speaker 6: but that was part of what they had And I
Speaker 6: thought that was very interesting because I think that's a
Speaker 6: telling point. A lot of people go, well, you know,
Speaker 6: just because they were killed as couples doesn't mean that much.
Speaker 6: I gotta be honest with you. That doesn't happen a
Speaker 6: great deal statistically. It's way off the board. And I'm talking.
Speaker 6: I talked with one officer who checked in ViCAP and
Speaker 6: it just you know, you have to go to Italy
Speaker 6: for this to pop up again where you have a
Speaker 6: series of primes where someone's killing the couples. So is
Speaker 6: a rarity. I think between that and the staging of
Speaker 6: the vehicles for theft, you you've got a pretty strong
Speaker 6: link to that whole instance.
Speaker 3: It's interesting too, because there are much different ways methods
Speaker 3: of killing in these double sets, in these two sets
Speaker 3: of murders that they could see. And despite that, things
Speaker 3: like keys in the car again you say that are
Speaker 3: super rare. Coupled with the idea that couples are rare,
Speaker 3: you have able to overcome the notion. And I'm surprised
Speaker 3: and that year that it wouldn't be dismissed because there
Speaker 3: was no common method of murder.
Speaker 7: Well, we know.
Speaker 6: Serial killers try to refine what they did. The first
Speaker 6: pair of murders, you had strangulation and you had a
Speaker 6: near decapitation of one of the victims with a very
Speaker 6: sharp knife. I think the killer was.
Speaker 7: Trying to refine what they were doing.
Speaker 6: Assuming that it's a single person that did the killing,
Speaker 6: and I'm wide open to the concept that it could
Speaker 6: be a pair, but right now I tend to focus
Speaker 6: on one person. They had to have had a gun
Speaker 6: in order to keep control, you know, a gun's a
Speaker 6: great way to maintain control.
Speaker 7: We don't know for.
Speaker 6: Sure how Phelps Lauer died, other than that there was
Speaker 6: a nick, you know, on some bones that indicated a
Speaker 6: knife was used.
Speaker 7: We do know that a gun was.
Speaker 6: Used for the Nobbling Edwards murder. We have no idea
Speaker 6: what happened with Carl Haley because we never have gotten
Speaker 6: the bodies and we never knew where the crime scene
Speaker 6: actually was. We know where the vehicle was left, so
Speaker 6: you do have, you know, guns and knives, and I
Speaker 6: have a feeling this killer probably had a kit with
Speaker 6: him to commit these crimes. He had rope, or he
Speaker 6: had used handcuffs. We know that handcuffs were recovered in
Speaker 6: Wilmer's search of Wilmer's place. He had the means of
Speaker 6: controlling his victims and he also had the method for
Speaker 6: being able to kill them, and in that case a
Speaker 6: gun and a knife. The concept that's always the same way.
Speaker 6: I think the killer is trying to recreate the emotional
Speaker 6: experience of killing people.
Speaker 7: In doing this, I think.
Speaker 6: He definitely got his rocks off doing that. We know
Speaker 6: from his confrontations on the parkway too. He approached a couple,
Speaker 6: for example, where the young man had long Harry saw
Speaker 6: the couple making out and he wrapped on the window
Speaker 6: and said, hey, what are you ladies up to? They
Speaker 6: turned and saw him, and when he saw it was
Speaker 6: a guy and a girl, he took off. But we
Speaker 6: know that he was the kind of person that was
Speaker 6: outstalking couples. That's part of.
Speaker 7: What he did.
Speaker 6: So whether he was working alone or not, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I'm sure the FBI is taking a very close look
Speaker 6: at his brother and other friends that may have associated
Speaker 6: with him, or employees.
Speaker 3: Even Yeah, I thought it's obvious, just reading a special
Speaker 3: kind of evil again, that the brother would be looked
Speaker 3: at very hard, as we had already indicated some of
Speaker 3: those things that would just stick right out, And especially
Speaker 3: because the FBI was certain, they were certain that it
Speaker 3: was two people involved, and in fact, so much so
Speaker 3: that when they had that waterman profile, it was two
Speaker 3: watermen and they were looking for a pair that was
Speaker 3: looking suspicious, weren't they.
Speaker 6: It was definitely an interesting trip down memory lane. And
Speaker 6: the argument has been going on with law enforcement for
Speaker 6: years whether it's one killer or two killers. My daughter
Speaker 6: and I, as author and co author on this, we
Speaker 6: struggle with that concept. Victoria, my daughter, firmly believes it
Speaker 6: was two people that did it. I still am in
Speaker 6: the camp that I think one person did it. It's
Speaker 6: very hard for two people to do it and managed
Speaker 6: to keep it a secret all these years.
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Speaker 3: Now, let's get to as you do in your book
Speaker 3: talking about the murders, and you call it the second
Speaker 3: and so it's the second set of double homicide. But
Speaker 3: the murder of David Knobling and Robin Edwards. He was
Speaker 3: twenty years old and she was fourteen, and the remains
Speaker 3: were found September twenty third, nineteen eighty seven, and he
Speaker 3: disappeared September twentieth. Tell us a little bit about this
Speaker 3: extraord case and these two people, you know it is.
Speaker 6: It is an interesting case, and people have reacted to
Speaker 6: the ages of the people involved. But Robin Edwards was
Speaker 6: She was a very adventuresome young girl and had spent
Speaker 6: a lot she'd run away several times. She was a
Speaker 6: tough character and she was really trying to get her
Speaker 6: life kind of pulled together. She went out on a
Speaker 6: date with David Noveling's cousin, and he drove them and
Speaker 6: chaperon them basically somewhere along.
Speaker 7: The way on that date.
Speaker 6: He and Robin made plans to connect later that night,
Speaker 6: on the twentieth they did. David pulled up to the house,
Speaker 6: Robin climbed out a window apparently, and they went out somewhere,
Speaker 6: and we know they went to a fast food place
Speaker 6: and got something to eat, at least there's been some
Speaker 6: evidence pointing to that in terms of witnesses. They went
Speaker 6: to a place called Ragged Island. Now Ragged Island is
Speaker 6: the best way to describe it. It's a swamp right
Speaker 6: at the foot of a bridge on the James River.
Speaker 6: It's a wildlife for a fuge It's a known area
Speaker 6: for drug dealers, homosexual encounters and stuff going back decades.
Speaker 7: This was.
Speaker 6: It's a rough area and they went there. We don't
Speaker 6: know for sure what happened other than the next day
Speaker 6: obviously there. When neither of them are back home, the
Speaker 6: families get concerned and the police do find David's truck.
Speaker 6: There in the truck are articles of clothing from both
Speaker 6: of them. The truck has had the ignition turned to
Speaker 6: accessories and was playing the stereo system, so it was
Speaker 6: it was there, you know, trying, as I said before,
Speaker 6: trying to attract attention to it. What's interesting is in
Speaker 6: talking with Michael Knablang, who's David's brother, he said, you know,
Speaker 6: David had wired the electrical system so you could play
Speaker 6: the radio without turning the keys to accessories. And I
Speaker 6: thought that was important because it tells you that it
Speaker 6: was the killer who.
Speaker 7: Staged the vehicle.
Speaker 6: It wasn't that David and Rock and were in that
Speaker 6: vehicle had taken off their clothes, et cetera, and that's.
Speaker 7: What had led to their demise.
Speaker 6: It was the killer had positioned the car, and David
Speaker 6: Noveling always backed his truck up into a parking spot.
Speaker 6: This was pulled straight in and he never would have
Speaker 6: had to turn the keys to accessories because he could
Speaker 6: have just turned on his radio and played it. They
Speaker 6: began at first it was gee, we got missing two
Speaker 6: young missing people here, and the search was not done well.
Speaker 6: The Isleway Sheriff's department did not do an exhaustive search,
Speaker 6: to the point where David's father actually went down and
Speaker 6: actually strapped on waiters and was doing the search with
Speaker 6: the police because he was getting so frustrated that they
Speaker 6: weren't doing it. They towed the truck to David's father's
Speaker 6: front yard, so the crime scene wasn't even handled well.
Speaker 6: And as they're searching, they they found David. He had
Speaker 6: been shot in the shoulder and in the back of
Speaker 6: the he and they found a short distance away Robin's body,
Speaker 6: and Robin had had been sexually assaulted or it had
Speaker 6: sex but she as well had been shot. So when
Speaker 6: they realized that, then they went back to the Nobling
Speaker 6: house and started trying to lift fingerprints off the truck,
Speaker 6: which at this point was just crazy for them to
Speaker 6: do given how many people had mismanagement. And as I said,
Speaker 6: even Andy said he and Fox said he was in
Speaker 6: that vehicle, so you know, it was poorly handled. The
Speaker 6: families found out on the evening news because there was
Speaker 6: live coverage when they found the body as the helicopters
Speaker 6: came in and started filming it for the evening news.
Speaker 6: So the police didn't even inform the families at that
Speaker 6: point that it happened. It's a very sad set of
Speaker 6: circumstances how they died. To me, I've always pictured that
Speaker 6: David probably put up a fight and at some point
Speaker 6: tried to get some distance between him and whoever was
Speaker 6: in this case, Wilmer was there.
Speaker 7: It tried to get some.
Speaker 6: Distance, got shot in the shoulder and went down, and
Speaker 6: that's when Wilmer walked up and had a shot him.
Speaker 3: Execution stile. You're right about that. The truck was staged,
Speaker 3: everyone believed, with both doors open and with the radio blasting. Now,
Speaker 3: what was the police theory? What did they put forth
Speaker 3: that had happened in their minds?
Speaker 7: They didn't.
Speaker 6: There wasn't a lot that the police initially had put forward.
Speaker 6: The investigation made this look like it was a drug
Speaker 6: deal gone bad, and I interviewed Danny Platt about this.
Speaker 6: They weren't convinced that Robin had spurred a drug dealer
Speaker 6: at some point and that they were at Ragged Island
Speaker 6: probably to obtain drugs of some sort, and this guy
Speaker 6: decided to extract revenge from Robin standing him up. And
Speaker 6: the focus had really been, and I'm talking for years,
Speaker 6: had been focused along that line. At the time, they
Speaker 6: weren't even connected to the Colonial Parkway WRCH. We only
Speaker 6: had one MDS to that point, so police didn't realize
Speaker 6: they were dealing with a serial killer. They saw these
Speaker 6: as very independent cases.
Speaker 7: One was being.
Speaker 6: Handled by the FBI because it took place in the
Speaker 6: National Park, which was the first murders. This one was
Speaker 6: being handled by a Virginia State police. It wasn't until
Speaker 6: the next pair of murders, which was called Haley or
Speaker 6: their disappearance. Actually, but once that happened, you start realizing
Speaker 6: you're dealing with somebody who may be responsible for these murders,
Speaker 6: one person or two people.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about April nineteen eighty eight. As you write
Speaker 3: Richard Keith call they referred to him as Keith and
Speaker 3: Cassandra Haley Gloucester County remains unrecovered. As you mentioned, tell
Speaker 3: us about how they came to be together that bateful night.
Speaker 6: Yeah, everything turns on the wheel of fate, and this
Speaker 6: was just quite literally. Keith was had a longtime girlfriend
Speaker 6: and they had a great relationship, but they were taking
Speaker 6: a break. She was off to college and Keith was
Speaker 6: staying local, going to what's now Christopher Newport and was
Speaker 6: attending school there, and they were on a break. He
Speaker 6: asked Cassandra Hayley, a fellow student, to go to a party.
Speaker 6: She had just broken up with her boyfriend. They weren't
Speaker 6: romantically attached at all. They went to this party at
Speaker 6: University Square Apartments, which is right outside the Christopher Newport
Speaker 6: campus at this time. They were there until around one o'clock.
Speaker 6: They didn't even really sit together. It's not like they
Speaker 6: were a kissy faced with each other. Keith spent most
Speaker 6: of his time talking to a friend of his girlfriend,
Speaker 6: saying he wanted to get back with her, and Cassandra
Speaker 6: was spending her time having a very similar conversation about
Speaker 6: her boyfriend, so they weren't.
Speaker 7: There was nothing.
Speaker 6: Romantic about their interaction. Keith, finally, being a gentleman, said yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm going to take you home. They left the party,
Speaker 6: you know, depending on various versions, because no one ever's
Speaker 6: looking at a clock during these type some things. Around
Speaker 6: one in the morning, they got it. They left Virginia
Speaker 6: Square Apartments for the ten to fifteen minute drive to
Speaker 6: Cassandra's house and never got there. The next morning, Keith's
Speaker 6: brother actually spotted Keith's car on the Colonial Parkway. His
Speaker 6: father drove by, saw it, got out and actually looked
Speaker 6: and saw the clothes in the car. Their clothes were
Speaker 6: found in the vehicle. The park rangers were called. They
Speaker 6: gathered up rather than even though this is a mile
Speaker 6: away from where they had this brutal murder year earlier,
Speaker 6: eighteen months earlier, they gathered up all the clothing, took
Speaker 6: it to the park office, started calling the parents, and
Speaker 6: their theory was at the time they had gone skinny dipping,
Speaker 6: which is just ridiculous. When they realized they had screwed up,
Speaker 6: the park rangers took the clothing back to the car
Speaker 6: and restaged the vehicle, so they contaminated the vehicle twice.
Speaker 6: Keith's car was left with the door jar, so the
Speaker 6: interior light was on. Keys were available, His wallet was there,
Speaker 6: as was Cassandra's checkbook and purse.
Speaker 7: I mean no sense.
Speaker 6: Neither one of them liked going to the Colonial Parkway.
Speaker 6: Matter of fact, Cassander really hated it. Even if, on
Speaker 6: some wild whim in your head that they may have
Speaker 6: had decided to have a romantic interlude, this would not
Speaker 6: have been the place for them to go. Neither one
Speaker 6: of them, and it was way past they would have
Speaker 6: had to drive by Cassandra's house. It just the whole
Speaker 6: concept that this was some sort of a lover's lane
Speaker 6: killing just doesn't make any sense. They searched the York River,
Speaker 6: which was fifteen feet from where their car was found.
Speaker 6: They did find a dead body, but it was actually
Speaker 6: a sailor who had jumped ship further upriver at the
Speaker 6: Navy base there. They did an exhaustive search of the river,
Speaker 6: et cetera, never found their remains. To this day, their
Speaker 6: remains have never been found. It's just it was a tragedy,
Speaker 6: really what unfold.
Speaker 3: You're right though, that in the book there was some
Speaker 3: because the father does this previous discovery, the park rangers,
Speaker 3: like you say, restaged and put things back into the vehicle,
Speaker 3: spooking the father. But the father contends that the keys
Speaker 3: were not in the ignition, whereas the park ranger that
Speaker 3: reported and restaged the scene states that the keys were
Speaker 3: in the ignition.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're never going to know what the truth is.
Speaker 6: The park rangers screwed up this crime scene. Their first
Speaker 6: instinct should have been to call the FBI, especially when
Speaker 6: you just had a pair of murders less than a
Speaker 6: mile from the same road, in the same park Sure
Speaker 6: earlier they should have just immediately called the FBI and
Speaker 6: kept everybody away from that crime scene. It's interesting as well,
Speaker 6: Keith's brother was driving on the Colonial Parkway that night,
Speaker 6: saw his car, and he actually saw a van that
Speaker 6: was there, and that van followed him. It pulled out
Speaker 6: of the area and followed him for a ways. But
Speaker 6: he didn't think anything, you know, it just wasn't. The
Speaker 6: concept that somebody would have just killed his brother just
Speaker 6: didn't click with him.
Speaker 7: And for all we know.
Speaker 6: Too, the van could have been one that Wilmer was driving.
Speaker 6: It could very well have been just somebody who pulled
Speaker 6: into that spot and pulled out. There's only one way
Speaker 6: to go on the Parkway. You can go north or
Speaker 6: you can go south. That's it in that area, So
Speaker 6: we just don't know for sure.
Speaker 3: Now, how does the fisherman, the watermen, how does this
Speaker 3: Wilmer guy get under surveillance at the Keith call and
Speaker 3: Cassandra Haley murders. How's it come to be?
Speaker 6: Irv Wells told me that they dusted off the profile
Speaker 6: because at this point they were like, Okay, this is
Speaker 6: this is way too coincidental in proximity to the Tomasdowski
Speaker 6: murders just less than a mile away, And so they said,
Speaker 6: we dug out the profile, and they started pulling up
Speaker 6: police reports that people had made incident reports about somebody's
Speaker 6: stalking on the parkway, and Wilmer's name came up, not
Speaker 6: so much his name as much as his license plate.
Speaker 6: People remembered the distinctive license plate.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 6: So actually one of his radio technicians was driving to
Speaker 6: their headquarters that they had set up in a motel
Speaker 6: and had seen Wilmer's truck driving around, so they knew
Speaker 6: he was still in the area. So they pulled him
Speaker 6: up and started doing very discreete surveillance on him and
Speaker 6: saw that he was spray painting the bed of his truck,
Speaker 6: vacuuming out the truck, and they were concerned that he
Speaker 6: was destroying evidence. So they very quickly moved to get
Speaker 6: a search warrant, and they thought for sure at the
Speaker 6: time they had their guy. Fortunately, they relied I think
Speaker 6: too heavily polygraph and they brought in with their top
Speaker 6: polygraph people and he said, no, this guy had nothing
Speaker 6: to do with these murders. To me, it's way too
Speaker 6: coincidental that he was the prime suspect on the pair
Speaker 6: of murders that followed Nobling Edwards, who we now know
Speaker 6: he did, that he was directly involved with. That can't
Speaker 6: just be a coincidence to me. This points to his
Speaker 6: involvement there. We just don't have the physical evidence to
Speaker 6: prove it at this point.
Speaker 3: Like I mentioned to you before this interview, it seems
Speaker 3: from reading all these books over the past a dozen years,
Speaker 3: that there has been an over reliance, especially at that time,
Speaker 3: to have a lot of credence to what was determined
Speaker 3: in these polygraph tests, and this one they brought in
Speaker 3: somebody that had this credibility because of all the things
Speaker 3: that he had done in the past. However, as I
Speaker 3: know and you know and other people know, that there
Speaker 3: is not much accuracy to a polygraph test, despite the
Speaker 3: polygraph examiner, and so this over reliance on the lie
Speaker 3: detector or the polygraph test clearing a suspect has turned
Speaker 3: in retrospect to be a fatal gesture.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've seen it far too many times that it
Speaker 6: was used as a way to kind of exclude someone
Speaker 6: more than anything else. And I think that I think
Speaker 6: that's a misuse of the polygraph.
Speaker 7: It's not like.
Speaker 6: Police didn't know that these things were inaccurate. The court
Speaker 6: system doesn't allow polygraphs as any sort of evidence, and
Speaker 6: that's been the case for many decades.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: I think that their reliance on it was a huge mistake.
Speaker 6: I think they needed to press further. They needed really
Speaker 6: do a more deep dive into this guy and try
Speaker 6: to build up where was he at certain points in time,
Speaker 6: who could verify it, you know, check his alibis, things
Speaker 6: along those lines. I think there was a tendency to
Speaker 6: just immediately go, well, he passed the Polly. I guess
Speaker 6: we got the wrong guy. I think it was a
Speaker 6: huge mistake, and I think her of Wells, in the
Speaker 6: back of his mind probably knew that. I mean, in
Speaker 6: the discussion I had with him, he just seemed like
Speaker 6: I knew had the guide, but we didn't have the
Speaker 6: GAMI thanks to the POLLI.
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Speaker 3: Tell us more about Irvin Wells and his ideas because
Speaker 3: he was the big proponent of keeping these cases tied
Speaker 3: together as a as a series of serial killings that
Speaker 3: were related and him zeroing in on this suspect was
Speaker 3: very very interesting. Tell us more more about your interview
Speaker 3: with Ierwin Wells and talking about Alan Wilmer.
Speaker 6: You know, I always let lawn Forstman tell me what
Speaker 6: they think, because they'll tell you more than anything you'll
Speaker 6: ever ask in terms of a question. And Irv volunteered this.
Speaker 6: And I found out later that the families were aware
Speaker 6: of the Wilmer ins that they referred to it as
Speaker 6: the driveway incident because he was seen in his driveway
Speaker 6: cleaning out in his truck. They were aware of it
Speaker 6: as well, but it was it was fascinating because Ierin
Speaker 6: he's old school FBI. He steps into this case and
Speaker 6: you've got at this point he definitely saw the link
Speaker 6: based on the geography of a connection to Tomas Dowski
Speaker 6: and took a lot of foresight for him to say,
Speaker 6: let's dust off our Watermann profile and I've back into that.
Speaker 6: You know, he's a very thoughtful person. I could tell
Speaker 6: you he was very frustrated him. This case was one
Speaker 6: of those that he said, this is one I wanted
Speaker 6: to solve word than any other, if not just some
Speaker 6: resolution to the call and Haley families, but to really.
Speaker 7: Put an end to this.
Speaker 6: And you know, he's like, I failed in some way
Speaker 6: and it's hard for law enforcement to kind of say that,
Speaker 6: and he did. He was very clear to me about
Speaker 6: it one on one that that was he always felt
Speaker 6: this was one of his big disappointments career wise. You know,
Speaker 6: he said, I had a lot of resources, I did
Speaker 6: everything by the book. You know, I took a look
Speaker 6: and said let's dust off this profile and let's pull
Speaker 6: up anybody that fits it. They had a guy who
Speaker 6: fit it. The guy was suspicious, you know, but he's like,
Speaker 6: you know, you can't arrest somebody because they have pornography.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, all serial killers have some sort of connection to pornography,
Speaker 6: but not all pornographers or serial killers, you know.
Speaker 7: And that was a frustration.
Speaker 6: He had felt bad for the guy because unfortunately passed
Speaker 6: away recently, so he didn't get to see this kind
Speaker 6: of resolution. And I think it's a shame because I
Speaker 6: think he could have, with his years of experience, actually
Speaker 6: brought back a lot of what they saw and what
Speaker 6: they did beyond the written rewards.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting, and you chronicle it in your book.
Speaker 3: A special kind of evil is that, at least to
Speaker 3: the police credit, they have to follow up every lead,
Speaker 3: and when they have a lead in a murder case
Speaker 3: and a series of murders, when people come forward and
Speaker 3: make themselves a suspect. You have the story of Ron
Speaker 3: Little and also Samuel Reader. Can you just tell us
Speaker 3: briefly again the frustration of the police when they have
Speaker 3: to follow up something where a person makes themselves a
Speaker 3: good suspect.
Speaker 6: Reader pops up in the murders that had were solved
Speaker 6: a week ago, nobbling An Edwards. He was a person
Speaker 6: that hung around Ragged Island. He ragged the police that
Speaker 6: he had deemed the truck, opened the door to the
Speaker 6: truck that night.
Speaker 7: Et cetera.
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's true or not. And he
Speaker 6: took a pretty close look at Reader. But in the
Speaker 6: end it was another one where it.
Speaker 7: Didn't go anywhere.
Speaker 6: There was no reason for him to have killed either
Speaker 6: one of them just because you have a creepy guy
Speaker 6: hanging around Ragged Island. I can tell you, I've been
Speaker 6: to Ragged Island. It's a creepy place. First thing when
Speaker 6: you pull in is the sign for Ragged Island has
Speaker 6: been with a shotgun burst, you know, and it's all
Speaker 6: riddled up. It's a creepy place. So the fact that
Speaker 6: somebody like Reader was there and was willing to talk
Speaker 6: to police about it and admitted that he had been
Speaker 6: to the truck and checked it out that night, it
Speaker 6: does cloud things up and makes him look more like
Speaker 6: a suspect.
Speaker 2: The case of.
Speaker 6: Ron Little, I'll never figure out why people insert themselves
Speaker 6: into a case the way he did. I mean, he
Speaker 6: basically went on TV and told people while I'm the
Speaker 6: prime suspect and the Carl Haley case. Now his name
Speaker 6: has come up because he was associated with a security
Speaker 6: business along with a very pick cop named Steve Blackman,
Speaker 6: whose name comes up often from tips and et cetera
Speaker 6: from readers. And black Man was a crooked cop, there
Speaker 6: was no denying it. And he did some pretty neferious
Speaker 6: things and Ron Little hung with him. Ron seemed to
Speaker 6: sever the limelight, got himself deported back to New Zealand
Speaker 6: as a result of drawing so much attention to himself.
Speaker 6: But I can't figure why someone ever would go ge
Speaker 6: or investigating all these murders. I'm going to go on
Speaker 6: TV and tell people I'm the prime suspect. It takes
Speaker 6: a whole lot of crazy to do something like that,
Speaker 6: and unfortunately he did, and it forces police to dedicate
Speaker 6: resources to investigating.
Speaker 7: Someone who, in the end, it turns out didn't have.
Speaker 6: At least up to this point, we haven't seen any
Speaker 6: involvement on his part with this.
Speaker 3: You talked about that it didn't seem to be any
Speaker 3: motive with a person like Simon will reader. Well, was
Speaker 3: there any idea, any theory on the overall motive of
Speaker 3: all the killings at any time?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 6: Really, When I talked to the profiler that I spent
Speaker 6: the most time with from Virginia State, please Larry mccannon
Speaker 6: was very great about it because he said, look, you know,
Speaker 6: when all is said and done, a lot of times
Speaker 6: they have committed a crime, and a serial killer wants
Speaker 6: to relive that first moment, the first time they killed.
Speaker 6: Is when they want to try to recreate that as
Speaker 6: much as possible and in various different ways. And if
Speaker 6: you look at where these bodies were all abandoned, they're
Speaker 6: all in wooded areas, secluded, very middle of the night.
Speaker 6: It's I think to a certain degree, this killer was
Speaker 6: simply trying to recreate what he experienced with the Tomastowski murders,
Speaker 6: if those were his first murders, and I think he
Speaker 6: was trying to recreate that over and over and over again,
Speaker 6: and he picked geographies that fit that, and he picked
Speaker 6: pair of victims each time. With the exception though of
Speaker 6: we now know that this person killed another young lady
Speaker 6: outside the Zodiac Club, So we don't know the full
Speaker 6: extent of the crimes that this guy may have been
Speaker 6: involved with. We an't work the way I put it
Speaker 6: to one person. I think we're at the beginning of
Speaker 6: the end. You know, we know now a name, and
Speaker 6: we have pictures of vehicles, etc. I'm wondering how many
Speaker 6: other crimes are going to get connected to this person
Speaker 6: over time.
Speaker 3: How much validation was it for you to now look
Speaker 3: at your book in retrospect and see that you were
Speaker 3: very adamant that the FBI should have pursued the person
Speaker 3: to fit the Waterman profile and not be concerned so
Speaker 3: much with this polygraph result.
Speaker 6: I'd like to see. I'm satisfied with that. As from
Speaker 6: a writing perspective, I probably am. Victoria and I've talked
Speaker 6: about it, and it's like, Wow, we really were We
Speaker 6: did a good job in what we did in terms
Speaker 6: of the accuracy to be able to get that. Yes,
Speaker 6: I'm not really going to be satisfied until these other
Speaker 6: crimes are declared closed. You know that they know who
Speaker 6: did it and can pin it on who did it
Speaker 6: and if it is this guy. I think it's great,
Speaker 6: all in favor of it, but I think this does
Speaker 6: attract a whole new level of attention to the Colonial
Speaker 6: Parkway murders, and I'm glad that we were able to
Speaker 6: accomplish that. I think if the book hadn't been printed
Speaker 6: and hadn't stayed out there and been consistently a strong seller,
Speaker 6: you know, it puts it in the public's mind over
Speaker 6: and over again. It's easy for these cold cases, especially
Speaker 6: in this era of let's defund the police. You know,
Speaker 6: the first thing they cut is cold cases. I think
Speaker 6: this keeps it to the forefront, and I feel like
Speaker 6: we did our job in that. That's something I am
Speaker 6: proud of is we haven't just let this die. We
Speaker 6: have made sure that this stays out there and stays
Speaker 6: out there for the victim's families because they deserve the closure.
Speaker 3: At this point, yes, absolutely, It's very, very interesting to
Speaker 3: realize that these cases were all linked together because they were,
Speaker 3: as you say, one of the main reasons, but because
Speaker 3: they were couples, and that's a rarity. It's interesting now
Speaker 3: that Alan Wilmer has been definitely implicated in or definitely
Speaker 3: would have been convicted for these murders, but that Teresa Howell,
Speaker 3: the victim he has just been linked to, is not
Speaker 3: part of a couple and was a single murder. So
Speaker 3: it would seem now that luckily that now they would
Speaker 3: be looking and expanding and looking at not only couples
Speaker 3: but also singles.
Speaker 6: I believe that's the case. I've issued Foyer requests to
Speaker 6: get information on these cases and getting stonewalled in a
Speaker 6: couple of areas, which is actually a good sign because
Speaker 6: it's usually an indication that they're keeping the case file
Speaker 6: open because it's being actively worked on. And I'm trying
Speaker 6: to take it in the positive light that that is.
Speaker 6: It's frustrating when you come out and you say you've
Speaker 6: closed the these cases. You know, we know who did it.
Speaker 6: I want the files so that I can go through
Speaker 6: in a little more detail and see how the investigation unfolded.
Speaker 6: I'm not getting those yet, but I am pursuing it.
Speaker 3: In your mind, will authorities be anxious to take circumstantial
Speaker 3: evidence and then say, based on our conclusions, we think
Speaker 3: that Wilmer's linked to these other murders, or will they
Speaker 3: look for that more exacting evidence as they have announced
Speaker 3: with the DNA results.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I really can't speak to the mindset
Speaker 7: of this.
Speaker 6: I do know that the FBI, when they were present
Speaker 6: at the press conference, did not, in any way, shape
Speaker 6: or form admit that this guy was on their radar
Speaker 6: back in the eighties. I'm sure that's embarrassing for them.
Speaker 6: My whole thing is get over it. Yeah, don't try
Speaker 6: to protect the FBI, we get it. Mistakes were made,
Speaker 6: tell us what you knew, be open, honest, forthright, lay
Speaker 6: it out for people. I worry about an agency that
Speaker 6: tries to protect itself. I haven't seen that yet with
Speaker 6: the Virginia State Police, but I was a little surprised
Speaker 6: the FBI. I knew it because we had interviewed some
Speaker 6: you know, the special agent in charge, or well, it's
Speaker 6: in the book. It's already public information.
Speaker 2: So just admit it.
Speaker 6: They have been pressed by other members of the media
Speaker 6: and said, you know, it was this guy on your radar,
Speaker 6: and they said, yes he was, but you don't go
Speaker 6: into any detail. And I think they need to be
Speaker 6: a little more transparenting. I think the families expect it,
Speaker 6: and victims definitely deserve it.
Speaker 3: I think that if that were to happen, I think
Speaker 3: it would be a pretty good spotlight on the efficacy
Speaker 3: of that pubveted polygraph examiner and polygraph exam in in itself. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think that you'd have a number of people who'd say, wait,
Speaker 6: the polygraph implicated person acts and this was the polygrapher.
Speaker 7: You know clearly he screwed up. I get it.
Speaker 6: Information's already there I've already put the information out there.
Speaker 3: What does before I let you go? You've discussed this
Speaker 3: case with Victoria Hester, your daughter and co author of
Speaker 3: a Special Kind of Evil. What's next in terms of
Speaker 3: this case and developments?
Speaker 6: Well, I think right now the FBI is gathering new information,
Speaker 6: probably more information than they gathered in years, because of
Speaker 6: being able to say these two are closed. I'm sure
Speaker 6: Virginia State Police and the FBI are taking a new
Speaker 6: look at everything they have in the case files, which
Speaker 6: they should have been doing all along, because this is
Speaker 6: where this guy was. He was hiding right in their
Speaker 6: case files. And I think it's great that they're doing that.
Speaker 6: I'm hopeful that they will be able to expand that,
Speaker 6: and I'm hopeful that in the next few months we're
Speaker 6: going to hear Look, we don't have physical evidence that
Speaker 6: shows the closure, but we now have circumstantial evidence that
Speaker 6: allows us to say that we are convinced that this
Speaker 6: person was responsible for X, Y, or Z of these crimes.
Speaker 6: I think if that happens, I think it's going to
Speaker 6: give the families at least some degree of closure.
Speaker 7: It's been a real.
Speaker 6: Up and down situation, I'm sure for the families. Yes,
Speaker 6: I've talked to a couple of the family members and
Speaker 6: friends of some of the victims, and they're kind of
Speaker 6: torn because they're happy that there's not a trial. You
Speaker 6: Wilmer's dead, so there wasn't a trial, but you know,
Speaker 6: they still don't know exactly what happened. They don't know
Speaker 6: what his motivation was. But they also aren't being put
Speaker 6: through the ordeal of a trial. So it's a weird
Speaker 6: balancing act. And emotionally, I've had to kind of distance
Speaker 6: myself a little bit from the emotional side of it
Speaker 6: and just look at it from cold calculation side. And
Speaker 6: that's why I reached out to you and to other
Speaker 6: folks that have talked with us about the cases. You know,
Speaker 6: this is an opportunity and we should view it as such.
Speaker 6: It's an opportunity to bring closure to these cases, and
Speaker 6: let's do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and thank god for DNA advances and technology. Absolutely,
Speaker 3: I want to thank you very much, Blaine Parto, for
Speaker 3: coming on and talking about your extraordinary book, A Special
Speaker 3: Kind of Evil, the Colonial Parkway serial killings, and all
Speaker 3: of the developments that have happened just recently regarding the
Speaker 3: cases that you cover in a Special kind of Evil,
Speaker 3: and your daughter, Victoria Hester is the co author. So
Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on and talking about
Speaker 3: a special kind of evil, the Colonial Parkway serial killings.
Speaker 3: For those that may want to find out more information,
Speaker 3: can you tell us where they might go to? A website?
Speaker 3: Social media tell us, Yeah.
Speaker 6: There's a number of Facebook pages around the Colonial Parkway murders.
Speaker 6: Obviously I encourage people to go there, and obviously I
Speaker 6: encourage you to pick up the book. It's on Amazon
Speaker 6: dot com, it's from Wild Blue Press. It's called a
Speaker 6: Special kind of Evil.
Speaker 7: Pick it up.
Speaker 6: It's really got a two years worth of our sweat
Speaker 6: and research and do it, and you're really going to
Speaker 6: get as close as you can get to crawling through police.
Speaker 7: Files at this point.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you so much for this interview Blaine Part
Speaker 3: oh Special kind of Evil the Colonial Parkway serial Killings.
Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, and you
Speaker 3: have a great evening. Thank you, Dan, and good night,