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Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 29 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.040 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 30 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:33.359 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 31 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:38.120 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 32 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.799 Good Evening. In their book A Special Kind of Evil 33 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:54.840 The Colonial Parkway Serial Killings, authors Blaine Pardo and Victoria 34 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:59.040 Hester wrote about Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. Who was the 35 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.120 prime suspect in the nineteen eighty eight disappearance and murders 36 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:07.040 of Richard Keith Call and Cassandra Hailey. He was under 37 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:11.520 police surveillance and fit the criminal profile the FBI had developed. 38 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:16.360 An expert polygrapher administered an exam to Wilmer and he passed. 39 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:19.960 As a result, he was cleared as a suspect. On 40 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:25.280 January eighth, twenty twenty four, the Virginia State Police announced 41 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:29.400 that through DNA, Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, who died in 42 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.800 twenty seventeen, has been identified as the killer of David 43 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:38.039 Nobling and Robert Edwards, who were written about extensively in 44 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.639 a Special Kind of Evil, and for the killing of 45 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:45.039 a nearby Hampton, Virginia woman, Teresa Lynn Howell in nineteen 46 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:48.840 eighty nine. Blaine Pardo joins me now to discuss the 47 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:53.000 latest developments in the Colonial Parkway serial killings, Alan Wade 48 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.599 Wilmer Senior, the FBI agent who zeroed in on Wilmer, 49 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:01.280 and what's next in the ongoing Colonial park Way murder investigation. 50 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:05.879 Tonight's program is a Special Kind of Evil, the Colonial 51 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:10.319 Parkway Serial Killings and Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. With my 52 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:14.599 special guest journalist and author Blaine part Oh. Welcome to 53 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.319 the program. Thank you very much for this interview, Blaine 54 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:18.039 part Oh. 55 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.599 Great to be back on talking with you, especially with 56 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:21.599 news like this. 57 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:24.719 Well, let's get right to this. You are the author 58 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.039 of a Special Kind of Evil, and that's how you 59 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.719 came to this case. That book was released in twenty 60 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:33.879 seventeen with your co author daughter Victoria Hester, and that's 61 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:37.840 a wild blue press release. Tell us where you were 62 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.759 and the circumstances and the news that you heard surrounding 63 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.120 case that you talk about in a Special kind of 64 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.000 Evil Well. 65 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:48.080 I was online actually at the time, and friend of 66 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.280 mine associated with the case reached out to me and said, 67 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:51.759 you're going to want to tune in. They're doing a 68 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:55.360 press conference on the Colonial Parkway murders. So I pulled 69 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.680 it up and caught it as it was starting, watched 70 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.120 it unfold, and I gotta say it was kind of 71 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.759 a gut punch. What they had revealed was that the 72 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:09.120 Colonial Parkway murders is a series of eight murders. These 73 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.280 people were always killed in couples in the nineteen eighties, 74 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.759 started in nineteen eighty six and etc. And they've often 75 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.480 been referred to as like the Lover's Lane type murders 76 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:19.160 and things. 77 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:19.800 Along those lines. 78 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:22.519 But they had announced that two of those crimes, that 79 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.800 of David Nobling and Robin Edwards and of another person, 80 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.600 had been solved and had been solved with DNA evidence. 81 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:34.920 And they splashed the guy's picture up during the press conference, 82 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.759 and I didn't recognize him at first. When they showed 83 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:42.560 his truck and I saw his Vanity license plate, Gotta 84 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:45.000 tell you, a chill went up my spy right it 85 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.600 was I had interviewed IRV Wells, who was the special 86 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.000 Agent in charge for the FBI on the Call Haley case, 87 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:55.920 and he had told me about their prime suspect in 88 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:01.040 that case, who four days after they had brought the couple, 89 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:05.439 had disappeared. They had basically had this guy under surveillance 90 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:08.120 an issue to a search warren On's property, and they 91 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:14.000 had cleared him due to polygraph test. And IRV told me, 92 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.240 he said the back of my mind, he said, I 93 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:18.600 knew we had the right guy. He fit our profile 94 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.680 from the very first murder. He was a known stalker 95 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:26.279 on the Colonial Parkway confronting people. We had him, and 96 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.240 he said, I've always felt like we let him go, 97 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:30.759 but you know, he said, we had our best polygraph 98 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.000 person POLLI him and said, this guy was perfectly fine. 99 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:37.560 And when I saw his license plate, I'd even put 100 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.879 a variant of the license plate in the book because 101 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:42.839 at the time I didn't want to put the guy's 102 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.920 actual license plate and had people harass him and stuff. 103 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:48.480 When the FBI had cleared him. Now I look at 104 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.040 it and go they had him all along. They had 105 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.199 this guy pinned on the murders that followed, it didn't 106 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:55.279 capture him. 107 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.199 Tell our audience plain about the Waterman profile that's created, 108 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.120 who created it and what you're referring to when you 109 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:03.560 say watermen. 110 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:07.600 Well, you know, in Virginia and in the Chesapeake Bay area, 111 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.839 watermen is kind of a it's almost a cultural group 112 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.319 of fishermen. Some of them are oyster fishermen, some are crabbers, 113 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:19.360 some are just fishermen fishermen. They have their own dialect 114 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:23.279 that they speak in. They're very much a closed culture 115 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.399 and in some of it it dates right back to 116 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.160 the colonial period during the first pair of mergers, which 117 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:33.399 were the Tomasdowski murders. Initially, the FBI thought that it 118 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.240 was a lover's triangle and they focused in on a 119 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.720 very close circle of friends around the two victims. They 120 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.920 then realized that it wasn't and when they happened, they 121 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.199 put together a profile and the FBI behavioral profilers for 122 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:50.759 it put together a profile. 123 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:51.759 It said, it's. 124 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.240 Most likely a waterman because the Colonial Parkway kind of 125 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:57.639 sneaks along the York River where a lot of the 126 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:01.199 watermen fish. And they said, you know, watterman would have 127 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.439 diesel fuel, which was how the Tomastowski car was hit. 128 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:10.480 The knife used in those murders was a considered to 129 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.199 be a long curved blade, very sharp, which would also 130 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:15.680 be a fisherman's. 131 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:16.920 Type blade, right, And they. 132 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:20.000 Said, whoever did this was probably someone who had a 133 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:25.879 reputation and even potentially a legal problems with stalking people 134 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.639 on the Parkway, that this was, you know, somebody who 135 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.959 operated in the parkway. Well, the FBI on the third 136 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.319 set of murders dusted that profile off and that's what 137 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.560 Well told me, And he said, we started to look 138 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.839 at people that were cruising the parkway who were stalking people, 139 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.600 and it turns out that they actually had one and 140 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.040 he had a very distinctive license plate in a truck 141 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:54.000 and was identified. The FBI found this guy, and when 142 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.639 they found him, they started doing surveillance on him. And 143 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:00.439 this is four days after the call Haley murder, which 144 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.639 are the pure murders that follow those that have been 145 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.360 recently solved last week. And as they were following him, 146 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.800 he started to vacuum ount his truck, paint the back 147 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:13.720 of the truck bed, and things along those lines, which 148 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.759 seemed like the kind of behavior of somebody trying to 149 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.079 cover up evidence. They got a search warrant. They found pornography, 150 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.800 they found handcuffs, a gun, etc. They brought the guy 151 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.600 in and bollyed him and he cleared, so they took 152 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:30.959 him off their radar. And it turns out he is 153 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.679 the suspect now and has been named as a person 154 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:40.440 who committed the murders of Robin Edwards and David Knobling 155 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:41.799 and one other person. 156 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.279 You write in your book a special kind of evil. 157 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:49.279 You talk about though he lives with his brother. So 158 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.960 he lives with his brother, and it wasn't you didn't 159 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:57.200 distinguish between which brother these agents. You write that the 160 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.639 agents would do these dry bys to see what kind 161 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.159 of whatever they could discern from outside of his trailer, 162 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.759 and that's when they spotted him painting the truck bed 163 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.120 a spray painting the truck bed and vacuum them out 164 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.159 the truck. And so you say that they didn't distinguish, 165 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:15.120 or you don't distinguish in the book between which brother 166 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:19.679 was also a murder suspect in another county and which 167 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.399 brother was painting the bed of the truck. 168 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.799 Yeah, didn't do it at the time because I didn't 169 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.440 have the information from the FBI on him. Irvwells was 170 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:30.960 always a professional. He was retired at the time. I 171 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.480 interviewed him and he was very reluctant to actually give 172 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:35.480 me the guy's name. 173 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.159 And I think some of that was due to his memory. 174 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:40.480 I don't think he remembered the guy's name exactly wow, 175 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.720 which really didn't give me much to go on. What 176 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:45.080 he did give me was the license plate, which I 177 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:47.559 changed in the books slightly. I just didn't want people 178 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.559 harassing someone that the FBI had cleared. 179 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.240 In the case. So it was one of those things. 180 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.799 I saw the license plate, That's when it clicked with me, 181 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.000 the concept that this guy would be vacuuming out that truck. 182 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.960 Those pictures were clearly taken by the FBI of his vehicle, 183 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.720 and they showed at the press conference, and it just 184 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:12.240 was ridiculous. He was clearly trying to conceal evidence at 185 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:12.600 the time. 186 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.559 Let's talk about before we talk about the crimes that 187 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:19.600 he has now been linked to through this new DNA 188 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:24.639 technology and new revisiting the crime again through DNA analysis, 189 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.200 we talk about me. One of the victims, Teresa Lynn Howell, 190 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:30.759 a twenty nine year old, and she was last seen 191 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:34.200 at about two thirty am in the city of Hampton, Virginia. 192 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:39.440 Tell us what's the distance between Hampton and Williamsburg, where 193 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:43.600 the Colonial Parkway area is, and tell us a little 194 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.240 bit more about what about Teresa Lynn's Howell's murder and 195 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:48.960 the particulars. 196 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.240 I really don't have a lot on her murder because 197 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:55.039 at the time she wasn't at all connected to what 198 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:58.480 we knew as the Colonial Parkway murders. I'm just now 199 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.200 starting to crawl through some She was last seen at 200 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:04.159 a club called the Zodia Club and was found murdered 201 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.399 as a result of that. They The distance were we're 202 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.600 talking about is always interesting because people, when they look 203 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.759 at a map, go, oh, that seems so far. But 204 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.639 all of the Colonial Parkway murders are within twenty minutes 205 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.759 of each other, depending on which roads. 206 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.360 You're on and how you get there. 207 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.759 So you're really only talking a twenty minute drive from 208 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:29.200 where she disappeared to the Colonial Parkway, and the probably 209 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.559 only about a ten minute drive to Ragged Island where 210 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.399 David and Robin were kill You know, these aren't huge 211 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.960 distances that have to be covered once out of the 212 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:45.000 murders took place in New Kent County, which is about 213 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:49.879 a fifteen minute drive by sixty four. But again, you 214 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.879 know on a map it can look like they're kind 215 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:53.759 of spread apart, and a lot of people have said 216 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.320 over the years, well, you know they're not connected because 217 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.480 of all this distance, and you look at the distances 218 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:03.519 Ted Money operated under when he committed his crimes, et cetera. 219 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:07.879 These are relatively close. And the fact is, the FBI 220 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:12.399 profilers and the Virginia State Police profilers have said on 221 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.679 the record and have stated for the press as well 222 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:19.840 as for my interviews that these crimes aren't connected. They 223 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.720 definitely are linked, and to me, I think that's important. 224 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.120 I think that the fact that they were able to 225 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.279 solve too through DNA testing doesn't mean that the others 226 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.960 aren't connected to this person. It just means they don't 227 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:36.639 have the forensic evidence to tie them to them. You're 228 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:41.159 talking early nineteen eighties, DNA technology wasn't being used to 229 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.360 solve crimes, so the fact that we had any was great, 230 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:46.639 It was great news. 231 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.679 You right about that, and that they don't have enough 232 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:53.279 evidence at this time and so you stress that. But 233 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:57.039 it's very interesting the law enforcement tip line asking for 234 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.000 the public's help in light of this information coming out, 235 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:04.120 and they state that we recognize relationships and loyalties change 236 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.200 over time, as to people and their perspectives. There are 237 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.919 occasions where people who may have had knowledge of an 238 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.120 incident didn't feel comfortable coming forward with the information in 239 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.360 the past, but we would want them to know that 240 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:17.919 it's not too late for them to come forward. And 241 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.519 so they described the vehicle, and they also say that 242 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.759 he also drove a white pickup truck, a van, and 243 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.120 a silver nineteen eighty nine Ford one point fifty and 244 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.919 he had a commercial boat, fishing boat called the Demi Wade. 245 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.360 And of course all of these photos you've have on 246 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:38.039 Wild Blue Press website as well accompanying your description of 247 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.360 new developments in this case. It's very interesting too that 248 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.159 they asked for anyone who had worked with him in 249 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.159 the oyster business, anybody had worked with him in the 250 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.559 landscaping business, anybody that docked near him at the marina. 251 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:54.440 Virtually anybody that had any contact with him at all 252 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.440 was encouraged to come forward and speak to the police. 253 00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.960 Well, I think it's important you got to remember too 254 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:04.240 these cases Cassandra Haley and Keith call their bodies were 255 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:06.919 never recovered. We don't know what happened to him. Their 256 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.000 car was found on the Colonial Parkway with their clothes 257 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.799 in it in April. The park rangers at the time 258 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.320 tried to perpetuate a story that they thought they had 259 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:17.879 gone skinny dipping, and trust me, I live in Virginia. 260 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.960 You don't want to go skinny dipping in New York 261 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:20.879 River in April. 262 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.960 It's cold. It's real cold, you know they were. 263 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:27.039 I think that's where their car was deposited, was on 264 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.720 the Colonial Parkway Murder less than a mile from where 265 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.639 the first victims were killed. The Colonial Parkway, I might 266 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.799 add they were intercepted as they left a party at 267 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:44.360 the University Square apartments in Newport News area, and you know, 268 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.799 Keith was going to be taking Cassandra home. And I 269 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.440 think it's important that they look not just at the 270 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.279 people that are connected to him, because they may have 271 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.120 information about Gee. It was weird that he went out 272 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.000 on the boat the day after Colin Haley disappeared. He 273 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.480 went out fishing and it wasn't like him. Maybe that's 274 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.799 what they're looking for, you know, since the bodies have 275 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:06.840 never been found. I also think it's important to look 276 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:08.879 at all the people that were at the party that 277 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:14.080 night where Keith and Cassandra Werek did anyone at the party, 278 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.960 see this person there, Did they see him in the 279 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:21.039 parking lot of the party, did they see his truck 280 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:25.879 anywhere in that vicinity? Because we know that they were 281 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:30.080 intercepted before he got Cassandra home, which was only a 282 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.840 ten or fifteen minut drive away at most. Somewhere between 283 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.720 that party and her house is where they engaged whoever 284 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.360 killed them, you know, And now that you have picture 285 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.200 of the person, now that you have a picture of 286 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:48.000 the trucks and vehicles that he drove, Now that you 287 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.840 have that information, it really does help you because it 288 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.720 may trigger some memories with people who go, oh, my god, 289 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.679 I saw that guy that night at the party, or 290 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.559 he was talking to them in the park even think 291 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.279 about it until I saw that picture. So I think 292 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.000 you're going to see is a sturge now of what 293 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.440 I would call circumstantial evidence right that comes forward. It's 294 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.080 not forensic, but it's I think you're going to get 295 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:16.679 people that say, yeah, this is what he may have 296 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.679 told me when he was drunk, or this is what 297 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:23.000 I saw that night or a different night. 298 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:25.000 We know this guy was a. 299 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.000 Hunter as well, And where the last two victimslwur Phelps 300 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.559 were found was a turkey hunting area. You know, they 301 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.639 were found by hunters six weeks after they disappeared in 302 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.399 New Kent County at the rest area. So putting that 303 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.960 vehicle out there and putting his picture out there is 304 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.200 bound to trigger some memories with people. And I'm hoping 305 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.360 that the FBI and the Virginia State Police are going 306 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.320 back to the people who own that property and saying, 307 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.200 you know, you had a hunting club that operated in 308 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.720 this property. Was this guy ever on that property? 309 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:01.200 You know? Did he have familiar with it? Did he 310 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.080 know that area? 311 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.960 Did he hunt there? Things along those lines. And I 312 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.480 think that's what the FBI and Virginia State Police, I 313 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.279 would hope are looking for at this point, are ways 314 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.799 to connect him to those crimes and perhaps other crimes 315 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.880 that we've never associated with. The Colonial Parkway murders. 316 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:24.119 Do you know how he was linked DNA wise to 317 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:29.359 the rape and murder of Robin Edwards and Teresa Lynn Howell? 318 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.279 Was it through that DNA and the sperm collected at 319 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:33.799 that time? 320 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:38.119 Yes, I did talk with a retired Virginia State Police 321 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:41.480 officer who worked in both that case in Ragged Island 322 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.200 as well as the Phelpslower case up in New Kent, and. 323 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:46.200 I spoke with him about it. 324 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:49.000 I said, you either had to have gotten the DNA 325 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:54.319 from Robin Edwards, who we knew was sexually assaulted that night, 326 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.440 or had had intercourse that night. We know with who, 327 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.519 so you know it could have been with David. No, 328 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:04.079 we don't know, but you know, I said, you either 329 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.279 had to have gotten it there or would have had 330 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.440 you'd have to use like m VAK or some other 331 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.559 technique to extract it from their clothing. Now, the vehicle 332 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.680 was very poorly handled. They didn't think that these guys 333 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.519 were dead, so they towed it to his father's yard 334 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.920 and it wasn't until his father was present when they 335 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.880 found the bodies that they went out and started fingerprinting 336 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.680 the car. And I even talked to Andy Parks, was 337 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.279 one of the journalists who's been covering the Colonial park reamers, 338 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.480 and he goes, I feel terrible, he said, I sat 339 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.200 in there David's trut when I did my piece, and 340 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.640 I said, well, you left trace DNA evidence. That's how 341 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.200 poorly the crime scene was handled. But you know, the 342 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.759 general belief is that it was recovered from a sperm 343 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.359 sample that was left in Robin Edwards, and that somehow 344 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:58.079 that has been protected and maintained all this time. At 345 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:02.079 least that was what I had. They got DNA sample 346 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.880 from him. This guy who did this, this Alan Wade 347 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.839 Wilmer Sor, he never committed a felony, so they never 348 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.119 had a DNA sample from him in their database. 349 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:14.640 Right. 350 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.160 But when he died, his body lay there for a 351 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.079 very long period of time before it was discovered, and 352 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.400 they took DNA as part of the identification process to 353 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.200 identify the body. Once they had that sample, they had 354 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:29.519 something to compare the cats. 355 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:34.240 Very very interesting. Before we talk about David Nobling and 356 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.200 Robin Edwards and their murder and how the police conducted 357 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:42.640 that investigation, but more importantly, let's talk about, just briefly 358 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:47.039 about how in what way all of these cases are connected. 359 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.960 The initial thing that you look at is with all 360 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.000 the Colonial Parkway murders, when they're committed, there are always couples, 361 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:58.039 and they're not necessarily romantic couples. They're just people that 362 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:02.599 are together that are killed. And so right off the bat, 363 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:07.319 that's an abnormality to have people killed in couples in 364 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:12.240 a very tight geographic area. So that stood out And 365 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.599 as we started digging into this, and Neraafoget was talking 366 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.359 with the profiler who did this for the Virginia State Police, 367 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.359 and we started looking at the case of Robin Edwards 368 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:28.559 and David Nobling. The keys were left in the car okay, 369 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.559 and the radio was on, the door was a jar. 370 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.359 It was clearly someone had left those keys there and 371 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.759 was drawing attention to the vehicle and hopes that someone 372 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.039 would steal the vehicle, further making it difficult for the 373 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.480 police to investigate. Your first inclination be heay, you stole 374 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.079 this truck, you must have killed them. 375 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:48.359 We also see. 376 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.240 The exact same thing though in the case of Carl Hayley. 377 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.680 The keys are left in the vehicle and in that 378 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:58.240 case the door was left ajar, so the interior light 379 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.359 was on so that people would see it. Then you 380 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:05.400 get to Phelps Lour which is out on I sixty 381 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.640 four vehicles left the exit ramp from the rest area 382 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.559 with a roach clip hanging on the window. Keys clearly 383 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:16.519 left insight in the car. And I went back Larry 384 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.400 Man Mchanna had done the profiling for the Virginia State Police, 385 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.720 and I said, you know, we've looked at this and 386 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.480 in three of the case latter three cases, every one 387 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.519 of them, the vehicle was left with keys and the 388 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.759 ignition almost like they're kind of trying to draw attention 389 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.119 to the vehicle someone would steal it. And he goes, 390 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.759 that's your fingerprint. He goes, that was something we recognized 391 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.680 that this killer was doing. And the last three pairs 392 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.319 of crimes, he did not do this with the very 393 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:49.319 first pair, but he did it each time. Didn't work, 394 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.160 but that was part of what they had And I 395 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.319 thought that was very interesting because I think that's a 396 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.160 telling point. A lot of people go, well, you know, 397 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:00.880 just because they were killed as couples doesn't mean that much. 398 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.200 I gotta be honest with you. That doesn't happen a 399 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.799 great deal statistically. It's way off the board. And I'm talking. 400 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.720 I talked with one officer who checked in ViCAP and 401 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:12.799