WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.880 Hey, folks, welcome back to another episode of JavaScript Jabber. 2 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.279 This week, I'm your host, Charles max Wood, and I'm 3 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:13.800 here with Itamar Friedman. 4 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:14.679 Now it tomorrow. 5 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:16.559 Do you want to let people know who you are 6 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.000 and what you do? I see your shirt it says quoto, 7 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.160 So you want to talk about what they do? And yeah, 8 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.039 and then we dive in and talk about whether or 9 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:29.359 not to trust your age AI generated code or code review. 10 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:32.479 Really happy to talk about that topic and being here, 11 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:37.240 Charles like, really a pleasure. Developing community are really awesome, 12 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:38.840 especially as they're more. 13 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:42.000 Specific you get into the details. COODO stands you mentioned. 14 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.640 The name CODO stands for Quality off Development, and the 15 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.960 most most focused of our platform is around AI code review. 16 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:53.679 In general, we deal with quality, different AI quality workflows, 17 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:57.560 et cetera. Basically helping enterprise professional a depth teams to 18 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:01.399 standardize their quality via the review process or. 19 00:01:01.399 --> 00:01:03.240 Shift left, cold review and testing. 20 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.760 It's okay, yeah, serving for example thousand around the world. 21 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.120 But I think, like really really exciting, for example, just 22 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.560 to talk is cold review important and all right now 23 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:15.680 and in the future. 24 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.959 Forget about CODO. That's I think like a cool topic. 25 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.879 Yeah, absolutely, Well you know, you kind of hit on 26 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:23.439 something that I think a lot of people are talking 27 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.920 about with the AI stuff, you know, whether it's a 28 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.920 code review or AI generated code. Maybe it's AI generated 29 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:32.040 code that's code reviewed by AI. 30 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:32.840 I mean, I don't know. 31 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.560 It seems like there's a lot of concern as well 32 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.159 as far as Okay, well, if I've got you know, 33 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:43.359 an AI n LLM generating code, am I even going 34 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.799 to have a job or you know, maybe they just 35 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.400 downsize most of my team and so I have to 36 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.560 be the most elite of the awesome elite at my company. 37 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.560 And so yeah, there is a lot of concern there. 38 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:57.920 And then the other piece of it is is, okay, 39 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.799 I've got this powerful tool, Am I using it right? 40 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.159 And so let's talk about the code reviews first, since 41 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:08.280 that's where you're kind of living these days. And I 42 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:10.639 don't think we've really gotten into the AI code reviews, 43 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.840 to be perfectly honest. I saw that GitHub does some 44 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:15.840 like you can turn this on for some of your 45 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.919 repos and I haven't even tried it because it's just 46 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:21.800 like I don't know, I mean, at work, you have 47 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.759 to have a human code review your stuff anyway. 48 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:26.800 And then on my personal stuff. 49 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:28.960 It's like, like, I guess I did turn it on 50 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.400 on one project and I was not that impressed. So 51 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.400 so tell me where this fits in and maybe where 52 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.479 I'm not using it to its full potential. 53 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.879 Yeah, these are good pointers. So you touch an interesting point. 54 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.280 They're related and different. So it's suckles almost theim like 55 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:48.759 first about losing your job, Like you get to gut 56 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.520 that point really quickly. I think like, first of all, 57 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:53.719 the next few years. I'm not talking about fifteen years. 58 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:56.960 That's it's hard to predict, especially the future. So let's 59 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.000 focus on five years and we can we can go 60 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:00.960 to further and out. I do have like my opinion, 61 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.840 strong opinion about about the five next year. Forget about it. 62 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:05.360 Sorry. 63 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.479 Dario froment Tropic and Sam Altman cleaning. I don't know 64 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:10.159 half a year ago, one year ago to the twenty 65 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:13.280 twenty five. You don't need more developers. Ninety percent of 66 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:16.840 code generated by developers. Yea sweet bench if you know 67 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.840 this benchmark software engineering benchmark going to be ninety nine 68 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:20.479 by nine of the year. 69 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:22.240 We're far from all of that. 70 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:26.560 And now I claim that while they decrease their predictions 71 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:28.759 for twenty twenty six lower than twenty twenty five. I 72 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.520 think even there they're wrong. So but that's not doesn't 73 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.280 mean that the future is not going to be strong 74 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:36.599 right now. It all already is, and it's going to 75 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.520 be more and more AI empowered. And yes, at some 76 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:42.120 point there is going to be a flection point where 77 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.759 we're actually going to see end to end automation of 78 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:48.639 software certain aspect of software development. But we can talk 79 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.919 about it via a core review specifically about you know, Copata, 80 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:54.000 et cetera. We are actually good friend, Like we have 81 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:58.280 multiple clients that we are partnering together. They focus more 82 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.319 on code generation and agentic workflow out of or pushing 83 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.960 like get up issue into a PR much quicker. We're 84 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.680 more focused on how do you note that that you 85 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:11.759 can trust that line code? And I'll elaborate about that now. 86 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:15.400 Sometimes there are some you know, feature like think about 87 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:19.000 the cloud, like cloud have cloud observability tools, but still 88 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.279 you have the data dog off the world. And that's 89 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.079 a difference between like a few features that the cloud 90 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.600 have around observability to a full fledged platform that gives 91 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.040 you the confidence. So I won't go deeper on that 92 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:33.120 competition because it's actually quite a symbiotic like, the more 93 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.279 people use copilot, the more you need CODO in order 94 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.120 to trust the code, So it's actually good. 95 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.879 But code review specifically, I think like some might. 96 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:47.079 Think about a synonym for where you deal with software quality, 97 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.000 but actually difference like it is part of it. But 98 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.879 let's think about quote review the purpose. It's meaningful purposes 99 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:59.319 first like owning the code and learning two different very 100 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:03.639 close relate buckets, like as a team. First the developer 101 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.680 mostly single handed, like developing a feature or a sub feature. 102 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:12.120 And then there's that moment where the team take responsibility 103 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:13.879 if that person is going to be in vacation, who's 104 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.439 going to do root code analysis if something happens right, 105 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:21.040 So it's a moment where you you like, learn to 106 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.240 each other code, learn the software, and own it together, 107 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.000 even if an AI generated it completely one hundred percent 108 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:29.720 from one prompt to a PR which is rare. But 109 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:32.360 let's assume we're going to maybe talk about aspector and development, 110 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.519 et cetera. But let's say you did you respect. Yeah, 111 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:37.920 let's say you did write respect completely like perfect man, 112 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.720 and you've got a feature. Even then a human needs 113 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:42.639 to take over at least for the next few years 114 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.920 and take responsibility. So that's one one thing about Court 115 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.319 of View, and the second thing is that like until now, 116 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:50.720 and it's going to be in the next few years, 117 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.079 even if you do the best spec and the best 118 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:57.240 like work, you're still going to have AI that needs sorry, 119 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.000 code that needs to be reviewed. And there's a different 120 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.800 between a tool that is meant to help you review 121 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.040 and startulize quality to the one that is trying to 122 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:09.639 help you generate code. Same off, how there's a difference 123 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:13.879 between code of reserveability and thought. So to till the 124 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.319 r hey, don't worry, in my opinion about your job. 125 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.639 I would even recommend people as different than all other I. 126 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:21.759 Think nine and a half the industry. 127 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:25.839 Do go learn like you know computer science, but do 128 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.839 like work with AI as one of your main tools 129 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.759 throughout the STLC and code generation, Code of view will 130 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:38.279 cot analysis, generating your respect everything and you will just 131 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.759 alleviate together with with the profession, and that I think 132 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:43.959 my point about that. 133 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.160 Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you said there, 134 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:49.199 and I'm going to back up through some of it, 135 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:50.800 and then I've got a couple of questions as we 136 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:52.920 go through. But one is you know, because yeah, you 137 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.240 kind of wove in the am I going to lose 138 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:55.759 my job? 139 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.920 Or where where do I go with my job? Along 140 00:06:57.959 --> 00:06:59.079 with hey, where. 141 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.360 Does the code you stuff fit in? And and that's 142 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:04.439 where I have more questions. But I just want to 143 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.839 reiterate a couple of things. One is is that we're 144 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.040 not getting away from people having to be involved in 145 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.920 the process. Is what I heard you say. And so 146 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.800 to a certain degree, yeah, you may have tools that 147 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.240 take on certain part aspects of the job or you know, 148 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.839 do some of the things that are involved in you know, 149 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.839 understanding and figuring out what's going on. But at the 150 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.199 end of the day, yeah, you need a human that's 151 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:31.560 you know, that's going to take responsibility for this stuff 152 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.279 and and shepherd it through. And if you're looking to 153 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:38.519 enhance your career, you need you need to understand and 154 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.040 be able to use these tools because they do make 155 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:45.040 people more productive. And so the adoption of this stuff 156 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:49.959 is inevitable basically. And so those are the triitions and 157 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.800 the role right and the role of soffer interrupting of 158 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.439 software developer right now in five year is completely different. 159 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.639 I love the word that you shepherd, like like basically 160 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.480 you're going to deal a lot with writing spects, writing 161 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:06.800 your rules, writing your best practices, following down like navigating 162 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:10.920 your army of agents, specializing in how to deal with 163 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:12.639 specific problems that might. 164 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.000 Come around with that. How everything I said is going 165 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:17.519 to be evolved, et cetera. So it's going to be 166 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:23.000 completely different, like higher level, more architecture, guardrails stuff. And 167 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.959 it's a process that happened throughout the last twenty thirty years. 168 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:26.160 Right. 169 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.279 We used to punch cards and write notes and assembly 170 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.360 and etcetera. So it evolved. So it's going to be different. 171 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.399 But there's a lot of things for a human to 172 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.000 take responsibility and ownership. 173 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:40.919 Yeah, and wherever we end up, right, because I think 174 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.320 it's optimistic of anybody to say, well, this is really 175 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:46.519 where I think we're going to be even in two 176 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.000 or three years, because things are moving so quickly, right, 177 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:52.399 And you pointed out, you know, Sam Altman and some 178 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:55.279 of these other folks, they thought they knew where this 179 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.320 was going, and they just you know, it's impossible to 180 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.639 really predict it. But if you're on top of what's 181 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.440 going on today, then it's a whole lot easier to 182 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:10.519 adapt to whatever comes later. And then as far as 183 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:14.720 the like the AI run code reviews and things like that. 184 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.240 So you talked a little bit about somebody's going to 185 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.919 have to understand and maintain and take ownership of the code, 186 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.679 and a lot of that knowledge has passed through a 187 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.759 code review, right, So are you are you advocating that 188 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:35.919 you have a human reviewer and an AI reviewer or so? So, yeah, 189 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.600 how does this fit into the life cycle of my 190 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:40.320 features and things like that. 191 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:44.360 Yeah, we'll talk about a bit about nostalogy just before, 192 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.240 Like you remember those days, like I think me and 193 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:49.440 you are like sorry for iman selling old model enough 194 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.440 to remember today's where we actually use books. 195 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.000 Do you remember before. 196 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.200 We went to Google or whatever was other websites, we 197 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.600 were actually using books to learn about things, et cetera. 198 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:02.480 And I still use books. 199 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.720 That's kind of my maybe I'm going to sound old, 200 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.879 but and mostly yeah, if it's technology, I do spend 201 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.639 a lot of time on the internet kind of picking 202 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:15.360 up the new things, right because the books get out 203 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:19.240 of date kind of fast, depending on how quickly technology moves. 204 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:22.639 But yeah, I prefer picking up the books and just 205 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.759 getting kind of the classic ideas that don't change it. 206 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:27.200 Everything runs on. 207 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.480 So so we are nostalgic about it. 208 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:31.679 But if I have to force you, like choose one, 209 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:33.879 I think I know what you're going to choose. And 210 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.960 think about how much we delegate to Google or other 211 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.720 technologies on the Internet and interanet to that we're not 212 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.480 going to validate right now to the deepest like part 213 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.639 of it. So I think it's right now already like 214 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.320 a very human digital we call it I or not 215 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:57.879 like technology based like development already as it is today. 216 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.919 And I think like the same thing is going to 217 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.840 happen with court review, where actually if you have a 218 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.759 one hundred and we are seeing customers that have more 219 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:10.559 than that, like a set of guardrails, rules, standards, and 220 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.840 I can give you an example like having a human 221 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.799 reviewer doing that like all at once in the time 222 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.840 the limited time is actually problematic and if you can 223 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.679 free the time to focus on what you know where 224 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.559 could be the most useful for that courde review, it's 225 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:29.360 actually going to have better learning, especially if the tool 226 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.759 AI tools that are using cares about learning. So even 227 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.000 if it caught something, it's just like, oh I fix it. 228 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.080 It's rather hey, this is the reasoning, and that's what 229 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.679 we learned from it, and by the way, this is 230 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:42.279 how we changed our second brain like that. And so 231 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.240 let me give you an example, like there could be 232 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.840 that someone in the company really cares about you know, 233 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.399 eat your flags, and they didn't manage to tell everyone no. 234 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:55.360 And the five hundred developers seven thousand developer organizations, that's 235 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:58.879 what you care about. You can configure that in the 236 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.440 system and I system. And now if you developed a 237 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.919 new feature, you get an alert, Hey you didn't put 238 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.360 a feature flag. Oh show you shouldn't you know? It's 239 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:11.320 this is also learning, like it's like, hey, oh, the 240 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:14.120 company cares about feature flag. I have a one hundred 241 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.200 example like this, but just one, you know, very I 242 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:21.480 think famous, funny or scary or not funny. Min I'm 243 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:23.519 a developer. This is like I'm a developers. I wake 244 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.559 up in the morning, I have a slot forty minutes 245 00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.360 to review a PR, a pull request. If you give 246 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:31.919 me five lines of code in that PR, I'll give 247 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.039 you fifty comments. If you give me fifty lines, I'll 248 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.639 give you five comments. If it's five hundred lines, looks 249 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.919 good to me? Right, Like, in forty minutes, how can 250 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.039 I five on lines of Code's that's a reality. And 251 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.519 by the way AI could even help us with classifying 252 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.440 like which review which pr? 253 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.320 You can actually do it for forty minutes. 254 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:53.759 That's how Also doctor works like they get an AI 255 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:57.519 tool that helps them prioritize, not necessarily tell them if 256 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:00.600 that person is whatever diagnostic, but just serve facing. Right, 257 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.600 So the opportunities are awesome. Actually, the problem is real 258 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:08.960 already existing around learning and catching issues. Tell me if 259 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.200 you didn't have a major issue, which developer did not 260 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:12.080 have a major issue? 261 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:12.559 And production? 262 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.440 I can tell a few horror stories myself, and so 263 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:19.000 the opportunity is not reducing the learning or increasing bugs, 264 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.440 is actually trying to to you know, get this better. 265 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.120 But we do need to write you xui and the 266 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.200 right mindset of the team. That's the building the dev tool. 267 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.279 So obviously like. 268 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.000 Sorry, shameless plug bug code, but it's not only us, okay, 269 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:34.440 like or not going to be the only one who 270 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.080 cares about it. 271 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:37.960 Yeah, I think I think the how do I put it? 272 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:38.159 So? 273 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.600 Programmatic checking of your code has been around for a 274 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.600 long time, right, So you have the static analysis tools, 275 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.879 You've got the linters and stuff like that. The electronic 276 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.840 with those is that typically at least the ones that 277 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:55.320 I've seen they break your code down with the abstract 278 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.000 syntax tree and then they look for patterns. 279 00:13:58.240 --> 00:13:59.440 Is basically what they do. 280 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.440 And the AI systems they kind of do that. But yeah, 281 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.480 you can be a lot more I guess, a lot 282 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.120 less prescriptive as far as what the patterns are, right, 283 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.120 and so you can train it on how to look 284 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.440 at code and what to look for, but you can 285 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.200 be a lot more broad and it'll figure out how 286 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.080 to do some of the stuff that you have to 287 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.240 explicitly tell the other the static analysis tools and the 288 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.279 linters how to do right. And so you can say, 289 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.000 like your feature flag example, right, you know it can 290 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.200 you know, I mean, depending on the training of the 291 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.720 system and you know how good the data set is 292 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.879 and things like that, and how good your prompt is. 293 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.759 But you can teach it. 294 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:43.799 Essentially, this is how you identify a new feature and right, 295 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:45.240 and then you have to make sure that there's a 296 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.039 feature flag around it. And it can figure out the 297 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.120 other steps, like it can infer what to do and 298 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:53.320 so on a lot of those things where you're saying 299 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.320 you set up a rule. Effectively, what you're saying is 300 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.559 is my code has to conform to these ideas, and 301 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.200 then it can with its latent space, you know, the 302 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.240 stuff that it's been trained on, anything else that you 303 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.960 add to the mix, with its context and things like that, 304 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.639 it can then go in and intelligently figure a lot 305 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.840 of that stuff out where trying to figure out how 306 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:18.039 to explicitly program it to say, here's how you find 307 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.559 something like this in the abstract syntax tree, or here's 308 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.240 how you break down this idea. Especially on you mentioned 309 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.720 like the five hundred line pr right, it's like across 310 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:32.440 all of these files and all of these changes. That's tricky. 311 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.799 But the LLM can consume it and figure it out 312 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.240 much much easier than you can figure out how to 313 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.039 explicitly program it for every case you're going to run into. 314 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:44.720 And it's not going to be perfect, but it can 315 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:46.399 do a lot better job, and it can do it 316 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.879 a lot more quickly and a lot more thoroughly. 317 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:49.639 Than I can. 318 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.440 Yeah, just kind of browsing through it and going, you know, 319 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.840 hoping my pattern matching brain goes, yeah, that's a problem, 320 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.279 and that's also a problem. And hey, there's so much 321 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.919 context in here that I'm just trying to understand that. 322 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:04.080 You know, I'm going to pick out all these little things. 323 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.440 But then when I go in as an experienced programmer 324 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.200 to do the code review, you know, I can see 325 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.399 what it caught and I can say, yeah, ninety nine 326 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.759 percent of this is great. You don't have to worry 327 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.360 about these couple of things that you know, it may 328 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.919 not be quite right on that or it's close, but 329 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.159 you should do this instead of that. And then the 330 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:25.960 other thing that I can see with it is that 331 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.840 there may be things that are just kind of aesthetic 332 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:36.200 or organizational or other things that we do that we 333 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.440 haven't codified into the rules where it's like, no, we 334 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.639 do things this way, not that way. And then you 335 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.360 can also go back and you can retrain your you know, 336 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:48.399 you can rewrite your prompt to include those on the 337 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.440 next one. But yeah, I can see where the LM's 338 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:54.799 looking at the code could do a much broader and 339 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.360 more nuanced analysis than you can get out of some 340 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.120 of these other tools and be more thorough than a 341 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:02.039 programmer doing it. 342 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.599 I'd love to relate to the you know, traditional quote 343 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:11.359 unquote old world satical analysis versus the semantic AI. But 344 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.400 just just before that, about philosophy around like, how would 345 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.039 you how would you actually exploit l lams like AI 346 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:24.759 to work with rules or standard standards that are written down. 347 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.440 So it's for those who are watching the video I'm 348 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.319 actually having I have here like a black shirt that 349 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.200 it's really where you really I wear purple. And I'll 350 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:39.640 explain why, because I think the world's roughly sticking divide 351 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.839 into too and I'm relating to how you use rules 352 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.400 in the standard and mark down, et cetera. I'm going 353 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:48.119 to explain it's connected, I swear. So there's the blue 354 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.000 team and the Red team. Like principle at CODO, we 355 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:55.119 see yourself like more in the red with mixed. That's 356 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.920 one of the reasons we chose the purple. So I'll 357 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:01.559 explain the blue team, which we had like the Winter 358 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:04.519 of the Cursor of the World, et cetera. Right QUOD 359 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.519 code compile everyone Basically they take those rules you can 360 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.200 write them in different and they mostly put it as 361 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.119 part of their context, which in many cases is actually 362 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:15.759 listening to. 363 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.799 But there's two problems. One I said many cases. 364 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.920 The second is that maybe it took it as part 365 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.640 of the context. But as you usually it doesn't work. 366 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.160 You don't finish a feature like at least not a 367 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.440 meaningful feature from promptu code, even if it's an agent 368 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.839 that runs for ten minutes usually or one hour, and 369 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:40.039 how sometimes you usually like get to prompt it over like. 370 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:39.480 Like navigate it. 371 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:44.480 Then at your tenth you know, prompt it actually very 372 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:49.880 very probably like missed something from your spec or or 373 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.359 your rules or your even your own prompt. And the 374 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.680 second one that's a blue way of thinking, would they 375 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:03.640 prioritized like their KPI is like u x ui. We 376 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.240 admire on them on that and speed from prompt to code, 377 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.839 et cetera. The red team is how we take every 378 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.160 fact that is there as an intent they're functional or 379 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.440 non functional, and verify it. That's a totally different process. 380 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:20.839 So you take the list of your one hundred rules, 381 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.920 whether it's ten or or one thousand by the way, 382 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.240 and you and you check them with and write lam 383 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.119 to turn to really increase. I can't say one hundred percent, 384 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.559 but really ninety nine whatever and free is a chance 385 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.720 that they're actually actually checked. I just want to you 386 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:40.400 know that it's important to differentiate between different philosophies and 387 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.359 it actually leads to a different uxui, et cetera. And 388 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.200 that relates to the first topic of ASTs. I think 389 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.599 that they're actually very powerful tools like sonar for example. 390 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.079 I would definitely I have like high expectation of that company. 391 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.839 And but yeah, they do a great job within the 392 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:57.920 set that they're you know, they're capable of doing. 393 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.039 They do two and I think like eventually, if you 394 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.400 want to exploit AI, really explore, move fast with confidence, 395 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:08.759 you want that mix of you know LLLM AI empowered 396 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:13.839 code review, code quality with that static and it would 397 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.559 be the best if you can actually mix them together 398 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.200 and you would see integrations like we have integrations with 399 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:23.440 with those tools because they might catch in many cases 400 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:25.400 the same thing and you don't want that annoying like 401 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:29.920