1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,919 Speaker 1: All right, so I want you to just imagine this 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,000 for a second. You're a pilot. You're in a small 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,199 white aircraft cruising at about five thousand feet and you're 4 00:00:09,199 --> 00:00:13,480 flying just off the glittering packed coastline of southern California. 5 00:00:14,439 --> 00:00:17,480 Below you, there's just the Pacific and you're heading out 6 00:00:17,559 --> 00:00:18,839 toward Catalina Island. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm with you. 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: You're not just joy riding though. You are running a 9 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:29,000 very sophisticated, meticulous grid search. You're sticking to a target 10 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:33,159 zone that was scientifically calculated for you. 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,119 Speaker 2: So this is a mission. 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: It is. And then all of a sudden, everything goes wrong, 13 00:00:37,359 --> 00:00:39,640 not one thing after another, but all at once. It's 14 00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:43,840 like the world just turns against your instruments. Your GPS 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,640 on your iPad, the one feeding your transponder data, which 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,320 you are legally required to have, it just vanishes. Your 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,679 plain icon is gone. Then your main communication radio, the 18 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:58,880 one you just used perfectly to avoid a huge Southwest airliner, 19 00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:02,079 it goes completely silent just when you're trying to call 20 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:02,880 air traffic. 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,159 Speaker 2: Control, so you're blind and your death exactly. 22 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: And the weirdest part that specialized cutting edge particle detector 23 00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:11,560 you have sitting on the floor next to you. It 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,680 registers an immediate off the chart's energy spike and then 25 00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:16,079 just freezes. 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: It freezes, not turns off. 27 00:01:18,079 --> 00:01:20,519 Speaker 1: No, not a loose wire. It's still powered on. It's 28 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,000 just completely frozen, like it's been overwhelmed by something that 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,840 just shouldn't be there in that little patch of air. 30 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,439 Speaker 2: Okay, that's a lot to happen at once, right, So. 31 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: What is that? Is that just a crazy confluence of random, 32 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,719 highly improbable glitches. Is it some weird, undiscovered geological quirk 33 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,040 of the California. 34 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,799 Speaker 2: Bite, or is it something far stranger. 35 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Something far stranger and something highly localized, maybe a deliberate 36 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,799 or even an unavoidable byproduct of some kind of non 37 00:01:48,879 --> 00:01:51,719 human technology operating right off the coast of Los Angeles. 38 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:53,079 Speaker 2: And that's what we're getting into today. 39 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. Today, we are taking exhaustive deep 40 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,480 dive into a set of sources that I think represent 41 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:03,920 a massive institutional shift in how the unexplained is being studied. 42 00:02:04,359 --> 00:02:07,159 Our source material is coming primarily from the News Nation 43 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,719 program Reality Check. 44 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: Right with host Ross Killer, and he interviewed two really 45 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,879 key figures who are leading this charge to apply hard 46 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,360 science to this mystery. 47 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:21,159 Speaker 1: We're talking about the renowned UAP investigator and former FBI 48 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,080 agent Ben Hansen and the esteemed physicist, Professor Matthew Jaddagus 49 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,280 of SU and y Albany. 50 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,319 Speaker 2: So our mission today is really to unpack the journey 51 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,919 of their joint effort, the UAPx expedition. And you need 52 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,479 to understand this isn't just about, you know, collecting anecdotal sightings. 53 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,879 This is about applying particle physics and real statistical rigor 54 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:46,280 to phenomena that for decades have just been dismissed. We're 55 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,000 going to be dissepting their work, their actual published paper 56 00:02:49,039 --> 00:02:53,199 in a top aerospace journal, and the really dramatic localized 57 00:02:53,199 --> 00:02:55,560 events that happened when a pilot flew directly into their 58 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,240 mathematically predicted target zone. 59 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,319 Speaker 1: We're looking for those precise nuggets of knowledge, you know, yes, 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,840 startling connections, the quantifiable data points that pop up when 61 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,520 cutting edge science confronts events that just refuse to be 62 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:07,960 categorized as normal. 63 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: What does it actually mean when the instruments themselves fail 64 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,840 in the face of the unexplained. 65 00:03:13,039 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's unpack this roster of experts because their 66 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,240 combined backgrounds are really what give this UAPx expedition so 67 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:20,879 much weight. 68 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, these aren't just enthusiasts, as the source noted, they 69 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,919 are highly credential professionals, and their whole approach is one 70 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,479 of painstaking scientific. 71 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: Caution, which ironically makes the weird data they did collect 72 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:35,680 all the more compelling. 73 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the credentials are the key here to unlocking academic acceptance. 74 00:03:40,599 --> 00:03:44,479 You start with Professor Matthew Jadagus. His background alone signals 75 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,840 a complete paradigm shift in this whole discussion. 76 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: He's the real deal. 77 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,319 Speaker 2: He has a PhD from the University of Chicago. He's 78 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:54,879 a specialist in particle and astroparticle physics, and his day job, 79 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,520 his main professional focus is dark matter detection. 80 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: So we're talking about someone who spends his career trying 81 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,840 to contect the fundamental invisible components of the entire universe. 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: Yes, and then you get this little detail that just 83 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,560 humanizes all that high level expertise, which. 84 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: I love, the Star Trek connection. 85 00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:14,719 Speaker 2: The Star Trek connection. His stated inspiration for getting into 86 00:04:14,759 --> 00:04:19,120 science wasn't just some abstract theory. He specifically cited commander 87 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,360 data from Star Trek the Next Generation, which. 88 00:04:22,199 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: Is perfect right, that blend of high level academia, understanding 89 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:29,360 the deep, dense rules of physics, but also having this 90 00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:33,759 accessibility in this this willingness to explore the unknown. 91 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:36,759 Speaker 2: It shows you the exact mindset you need to tackle 92 00:04:36,759 --> 00:04:39,759 problems that other people just deem too out there. 93 00:04:39,879 --> 00:04:43,399 Speaker 1: Precisely, his presence just lends immediate credibility, and then you 94 00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:44,720 pair them with Ben Hansen. 95 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: Who provides that necessary grounding in actual field investigation. I mean, 96 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,800 he's a former FBI agent with specific experience in counter 97 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,279 terrorism and behavioral analysis, and that kind of training is 98 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,199 just invaluable. 99 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: Why specifically because it. 100 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,399 Speaker 2: Gives him an immediate understand of things like establishing a 101 00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:04,720 chain of custody for evidence, assessing how reliable a witnesses, 102 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,639 and crucially pattern analysis. He knows how to filter out 103 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,040 all the noise and identify a genuine, recurring phenomenon. 104 00:05:12,399 --> 00:05:15,079 Speaker 1: And let's not forget his other experience. He's a pilot, 105 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:17,519 he's an emergency manager, and he's a very well known 106 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:22,240 UAP investigator from shows like fact or Faked and UFO Witness. 107 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: So you have this perfect team. A top tier particle 108 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,600 physicist who focuses on invisible things and a meticulous former 109 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,759 federal agent who focuses on verifiable facts and human behavior. 110 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: That collaboration, it feels like it was engineered specifically to 111 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,639 bypass decades of institutional stigma. 112 00:05:41,519 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: And this combination led them directly to their groundbreaking achievement, 113 00:05:45,399 --> 00:05:49,480 the publication of the UAPx peer reviewed paper summarizing their 114 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:51,399 initial field expedition right co. 115 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:55,639 Speaker 1: Authored by JADDIGUS Professor Kevin Kanuth, Professor Cecilia Levi. 116 00:05:55,639 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: Who, by the way, insists on trying to find prosaic 117 00:05:57,879 --> 00:06:00,920 explanations for absolutely everything. She's the skee on the team. 118 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:03,959 Speaker 1: The perfect person to have and engineer Ben Kogelski. And 119 00:06:04,079 --> 00:06:06,480 this work was accepted and published in the highly respected 120 00:06:06,519 --> 00:06:09,439 journal Progress in Aerospace Sciences. 121 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: And we really have to dwell on that journal for 122 00:06:10,519 --> 00:06:12,480 a moment. Progress and Aerospace Sciences. 123 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: It sounds like the kind of publication where you find, 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,959 you know, design specs for jets or papers on orbital mechanics, 125 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,000 not not UFO reports. So why is that specific journal 126 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,040 acceptance such a critical breakthrough. 127 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,439 Speaker 2: It's all about the deeply entrenched academic taboo for nearly 128 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,639 a century. Any serious scientists who touched UAP research, you know, 129 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,639 they often saw their careers stall, their funding dry up, 130 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,720 or their credibility just questioned. 131 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,759 Speaker 1: So to be published here is it's a huge deal. 132 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: It is, in Jatigus's own words, it's either the number 133 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,519 one or tied for the number one highest reputation journal 134 00:06:47,519 --> 00:06:51,319 to carry UAP research anywhere in the world. This acceptance, 135 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,319 it's like a signal flare to the entire scientific community. 136 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: It's saying this research has statistical rigor, we can no 137 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:59,199 longer afford to just dismiss it out of hand. 138 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: Exactly. It's the institutional risk that the editors and the 139 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:05,160 peer reviewers took that matters just as much as the 140 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:09,240 paper itself. They risked their own professional standing to acknowledge 141 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,720 that this subject deserves a serious investigation. 142 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:15,279 Speaker 1: Which reduces the ability of other scientists to just label 143 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:16,279 it junk science. 144 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,519 Speaker 2: Right. And this wasn't just a one off publication slip. 145 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,319 This was a special edition of the journal that contained 146 00:07:22,519 --> 00:07:27,800 three major foundational works. Okay, So alongside the UAPx paper, 147 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,639 there was Professor Kevin Kanooth's massive, over one hundred page 148 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,000 summary of the entire UAP field. 149 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: One hundred pages published in a top journal that essentially 150 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:41,959 institutionalizing the entire historical context of the UAP field. 151 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,279 Speaker 2: It's providing a comprehensive objective record for anyone who wants 152 00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:47,360 to dive into the background without having to rely on 153 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,240 you know, niche blogs or forums. It legitimized the entire 154 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:52,319 history of the topic. 155 00:07:52,439 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: Wow. And the third paper. 156 00:07:54,079 --> 00:07:56,879 Speaker 2: The third paper was penned by the celebrated ufologist and 157 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,360 scientist Jacques Valais. It focused specific on power and energy 158 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:04,360 output in luminosity related to UAP observations. 159 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: So Valat's bringing his decades of data collection and categorization. 160 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:11,959 Speaker 2: To the table, all wrapped within a single, highly reputable publication. 161 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,759 These three papers collectively, they just represent a title shift. 162 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:19,759 They're setting a new bar for what constitutes acceptable serious 163 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,000 scientific inquiry into the unexplained. 164 00:08:22,279 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: So with all that rigor established, let's turn to the 165 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:29,439 specific terminology they chose for their findings. They didn't call 166 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,279 their initial data points anomalies. No, they call them ambiguities. 167 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:37,240 And we need to really dive into the philosophical distinction there. 168 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,879 Speaker 2: This distinction, it really defines the entire scientific philosophy of 169 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:45,279 the UAPx team. The term ambiguity, which was suggested by 170 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:49,360 Professor Canus is defined as a potential anomaly, potential that 171 00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:52,919 has not yet risen to this statistical and quantitative rigor 172 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,799 that's necessary to rule out a prosaic or a boring 173 00:08:56,919 --> 00:08:57,879 explainable source. 174 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: So, in Layman's terms, they saw some strange on the camera, 175 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,080 but they hadn't yet amassed the overwhelming evidence that five 176 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,279 sigma proof we'll talk about later that's required to say definitively, 177 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,399 this cannot be a helicopter or a fly or space jump. 178 00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: Precisely, they're establishing a hierarchy of certainty. An anomaly is 179 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,600 an event where the mundane explanations have been statistically eliminated, 180 00:09:17,919 --> 00:09:21,519 and ambiguity is an event that defies an immediate mondane explanation. 181 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,039 Speaker 1: But they still recognize there's a good chance that with 182 00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:27,320 more data a simple answer might emerge. 183 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,799 Speaker 2: Yes, and the purpose of using that word is so crucial. 184 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,200 It prevents the premature labeling of something as extraordinary. 185 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,799 Speaker 1: They're protecting their data from being immediately dismissed by skeptics, 186 00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:43,480 right while also protecting themselves from being accused of jumping 187 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:44,759 to the alien conclusion. 188 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: Exactly. The scientific approach requires healthy skepticism of both the 189 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,639 prosaic hypothesis and the extraordinary one. The ambiguity is the 190 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:57,639 scientifically honest data point that says, we can't explain this 191 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,120 simply yet, but we also can't yet declare it truly 192 00:10:01,159 --> 00:10:04,240 anomalist because we haven't established that five sigma proof. 193 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: It's a crucial takeaway. They're looking for objective proof or 194 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,679 objective disproof, not just confirmation of a belief. 195 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:11,799 Speaker 2: That's real science. 196 00:10:11,919 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: With that necessary scientific groundwork laid, let's zoom in on 197 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,559 the location itself, the Channel Islands, specifically the area around Catalina. Yeah. 198 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: Ben Hanson described this stretch of ocean as a decade 199 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,200 long hotspot for him personally, but the activity there has 200 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,120 a shockingly long history. 201 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: The persistence is what makes this area so compelling, isn't it? 202 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,639 Speaker 2: It really is. Hanson notes UAP activity in this specific 203 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,000 region going all the way back to the eighteen hundreds. 204 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,240 We have persistent anecdotal accounts and then eventual photographic and 205 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,200 video accounts like the famous nineteen sixties case. 206 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: The one with the Coastguard helicopter pilot. 207 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,919 Speaker 2: That's the one he filmed an object flying over the 208 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,519 backside of the island. This isn't a flash in the 209 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,799 pan This is a recurring, generational phenomenon that's anchored to 210 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,879 a specific geography, and. 211 00:10:56,799 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: The reason for that persistence seems absolutely rooted in the 212 00:11:00,759 --> 00:11:04,440 unique geography of the area. It's not just beautiful out there, 213 00:11:04,919 --> 00:11:07,799 it's highly peculiar and strategically perfect. 214 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: That's the key what makes this area so distinct from 215 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,279 a geological or navigational perspective. That is it first, the 216 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,000 sheer proximity of these truly deep channels. Catalina Island is 217 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,759 unique along the entire US coast because just a quarter 218 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,759 mile off the shore, sometimes even closer, the ocean bottom 219 00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:25,840 just drops. 220 00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: Precipitously down thousands of feet. 221 00:11:27,799 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: Thousands of feet down into the deep abyssle plane. You 222 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,360 basically go from the beach to a mile deep canyon 223 00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:34,279 almost instantly. 224 00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: It's an immediate, perfect hideout. You could conceal something the 225 00:11:38,759 --> 00:11:41,159 size of a naval fleet thousands of feet down, and 226 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,720 yet you are right on the doorstep of the largest 227 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,360 concentration of human activity in North America. 228 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,039 Speaker 2: La County with nine million people, Orange County with three million. 229 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:54,679 The observation deck is perfectly hidden and yet perfectly situated. 230 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: And beyond the depth. Hanson notes this specific recognized geophysical feature. 231 00:11:59,639 --> 00:12:01,960 That's the marked on official navigational charts. 232 00:12:02,159 --> 00:12:04,039 Speaker 2: The magnetic anomalies. 233 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: Exactly warnings about magnetic anomalies. These warnings appear on both 234 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:10,080 marine charts and air charts. 235 00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:13,799 Speaker 2: So pilots and sailors are explicitly warned that their compasses 236 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,879 may be off by several degrees in this specific region. 237 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: And this isn't just some pilot rumor, this is institutionalized 238 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:23,840 data warning people away from trusting their magnetic compasses. What 239 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,000 could cause something like that, Well, that's where. 240 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,159 Speaker 2: The speculation comes in and where marine geologists have raised 241 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,879 their eyebrows. You know. Potential prosaic causes could be unusually 242 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:36,639 concentrated iron deposits in the seafloor rock or maybe ancient 243 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,080 volcanic vents that introduce magnetically strange minerals. 244 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,399 Speaker 1: But the sources also mentioned marine geologists seeing features under 245 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,559 the water that are just difficult to explain whether they're 246 00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:48,360 volcanic or not. 247 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 2: It suggests an underlying, very active and geophysically strange patch 248 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,159 of the Earth's crust. 249 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: Which maybe is why the United States government recognized the 250 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:01,720 strategic value of this area decades ago. For the exact 251 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:03,360 purpose of concealment exactly. 252 00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: Hanson discussed Project. 253 00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:07,159 Speaker 1: Rock Site, a nineteen sixties Navy project. 254 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and they weren't just curious about the area, They 255 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,679 were specifically surveying it to determine its suitability for building 256 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,360 a massive concealed underwater. 257 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,399 Speaker 1: Base, an underwater base like a deep refuge for world 258 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,559 elites in case of a nuclear exchange, built right into 259 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,039 the bottom of the island itself. 260 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: That's the concept. It's staggering, But think about the logistics. 261 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,120 The Navy explored the idea of carving out a gigantic 262 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:31,480 protected insulation. 263 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: So if the government's own top engineers and geologists recognized 264 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,200 that the extreme depth and the geophysical strangeness of Catalina 265 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,879 made it the single best place on the entire US 266 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,120 coastline for deep concealment. 267 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: Then the idea of unidentified submerged objects utilizing that same 268 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,080 natural perfect feature is not really ridiculous at all. To 269 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:53,480 use Hanson's words. 270 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,879 Speaker 1: It's a logical conclusion based on established strategic thinking. 271 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:01,159 Speaker 2: This confluence of factors, the history, the depth, the magnetic quarks, 272 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:04,399 the government's own desire to use it for concealment. That's 273 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,080 what forms what they call the Catalina Triangle. 274 00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: The primary hotspad of UAP and USO incursions. 275 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,519 Speaker 2: The triangle is roughly triangulated between Santa Barbara and the 276 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:17,559 Channel Islands, Catalina Island and then down to Guadalube, Mexico. 277 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,320 It defines that whole region along the coast where you 278 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,200 have these immediate, extremely deep channels. 279 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: If you need to observe a major civilization while maintaining 280 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,159 maximum stealth, this is geographically the perfect spot. 281 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:30,639 Speaker 2: It is. 282 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: Now, speaking of things that are supposedly hidden, we have 283 00:14:34,159 --> 00:14:38,360 to address that persistent Internet controversy that Ben Hansen helped clarify. 284 00:14:38,799 --> 00:14:42,120 The infamous Malibu UFO base ah. 285 00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: Yes, the one spotted on Google Earth. This caused a 286 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:46,000 massive stir. Maybe a decade ago. 287 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:49,639 Speaker 1: Satellite imagery captured what looked like a complex structure on 288 00:14:49,679 --> 00:14:53,480 the seafloor off Malibu. People said it looked like the Millennium. 289 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,519 Speaker 2: Falcon, or that it had these strange pillar like structures 290 00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:58,720 suggesting a huge artificial gateway. 291 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: And the narrative was that people would post the exact 292 00:15:01,879 --> 00:15:05,120 coordinates and then the image would disappear or get blurred 293 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,480 out by Google, fueling the idea that there was a 294 00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:08,000 cover up. 295 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: Right, Hanson confirms he and his team investigated that specific 296 00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:17,000 landmark extensively using geological data, and he clarifies that for 297 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,480 the record, the specific feature in that image was determined 298 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,600 to be a known geological feature, so. 299 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:26,159 Speaker 1: It was definitively debunked as an artificial structure. It was 300 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:29,159 of the famous Malibu UFO base was just a trick 301 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,480 of the light in Beth imagery. 302 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: Case closed, not entirely, and here is Hanson's crucial caveat 303 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,679 which keeps the idea alive despite that specific image being debunked. 304 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,960 Hanson emphasizes the overwhelming number of witnesses he has. 305 00:15:40,879 --> 00:15:43,399 Speaker 1: Interviewed, pilots, mariners, fishermen. 306 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:46,519 Speaker 2: Exactly people who have seen cracked emerged directly from the 307 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:49,519 water near those deep canyons off Malibu and Ronando Beach. 308 00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:51,559 Speaker 1: So the structure in the photo might have been natural, 309 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:54,840 but the phenomenon of objects emerging from the deep right 310 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:59,039 where the seafloor drops thousands of feet lends powerful credence 311 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:01,639 to the idea of an underwater facility or presence. 312 00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:05,799 Speaker 2: Precisely, the debunking of a single satellite photo does not 313 00:16:05,919 --> 00:16:09,720 debunk the cumulative weight of decades of witness testimony that 314 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,240 confirms the strategic value of that location. 315 00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:16,279 Speaker 1: The scientific approach demands ruling out the rock formation, but 316 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,279 the investigative approach acknowledges that the sightings of usos emerging 317 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,320 there remain highly. 318 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,159 Speaker 2: Relevant, and that's the balance they're trying to strike. 319 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: So, armed with all this knowledge of this unique geological 320 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,120 setting and the decades of history, the UAPx team launched 321 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:33,480 its scientific expedition. They set up in July twenty twenty 322 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:34,919 one near Laguna Beach. 323 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: Right. They were perched on a high rise house overlooking 324 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:40,759 the channel, looking directly toward Catalina Island, and this was 325 00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:43,440 a very sophisticated multisensor operation. 326 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,799 Speaker 1: They deployed some cutting edge gear designed to capture evidence 327 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,080 across multiple spectra, including a system called the UFODAP camera, which. 328 00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: Was run in a motion triggered night vision mode. They 329 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,960 were essentially running the highest tech security camera you can imagine, 330 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,679 pointed at the sky and the sea, waiting for anything 331 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,559 unusual to cross its path. 332 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: And they caught something, something that became the centerpiece of 333 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:12,400 their published paper. Let's detail the specific ambiguity that launched 334 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:13,839 a thousand hypotheses. 335 00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:16,839 Speaker 2: The primary visual finding was a strange dark spot with 336 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,119 white speckles that was captured across multiple camera frames and 337 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,400 multiple videos over a short period. 338 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,079 Speaker 1: This is the event that was popularized in the documentary 339 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:26,160 A Tear in the Sky. 340 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,079 Speaker 2: That's the one and the name is dramatic, suggesting a 341 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,920 portal or a literal rip in space time. But Professor 342 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,160 Jadigus was incredibly cautious in his scientific analysis, as he 343 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,000 should be, he was required to be. Jadigus notes that 344 00:17:39,079 --> 00:17:43,559 after extensive review, their most likely prosaic explanation ended up 345 00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:44,920 being something utterly. 346 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: Mundane, a fly. 347 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 2: A fly on the lens. The dark spot with speckles 348 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,079 could have simply been an insect taking off from the 349 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,279 camera lens, momentarily blocking the light and creating that effect. 350 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: So if the most likely explanation is just a bug, 351 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,880 why didn't they just dismiss it? Why did this bug 352 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,720 become an ambiguity worthy of publication in a top aerospace journal. 353 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: Because of the temporal coincidence. That's the key. What prevented 354 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,599 it from being completely dismissed was that the precise moment 355 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,200 the camera captured this visual event, it coincided with an 356 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:17,799 unexpected ionizing radiation event. 357 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: Detected by the team's other instrumentation running at the same time. 358 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,759 Speaker 2: Exactly the data just refused to fully align with a 359 00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:27,039 simple fly on the lens explanation. 360 00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: This brings us to the cosmic watch. We referred to 361 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,880 it as a digital Geiger counter, but we need to 362 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,640 explain its function a bit more deeply. 363 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,319 Speaker 2: The cosmic watch is an ingenious, low cost, high precision 364 00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:42,119 particle detector. It was developed at places like MIT. It's 365 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,319 essentially a USB enabled detector designed to measure high energy particles. 366 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: Specifically ionizing radiation like muons. 367 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,759 Speaker 2: Right, the UAPx team deployed several of these devices in 368 00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:55,279 the field, including the one Ben Hansen later flew in 369 00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:55,839 the plane. 370 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: So what are muons and why are they important? 371 00:18:58,599 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: Muons are fundamental articles. You can think of them as 372 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:06,720 heavy electrons. They're created when cosmic rays, these extremely high 373 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:11,079 energy particles from distant supernovae, black holes, or the Sun, 374 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,039 smash into the Earth's atmosphere. 375 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: Now they're just constantly raining down. 376 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,559 Speaker 2: On us all the time. They can penetrate deep into 377 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,640 rock and water, which is why we use them for 378 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,200 things like scanning pyramids. The cosmic watch is essentially just 379 00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:25,599 counting these natural high energy particles. 380 00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:30,599 Speaker 1: Now, when most people hear ionizing radiation, they immediately think danger, 381 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,079 nuclear fallout. We need to be clear that the cosmic 382 00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:37,319 Watch is just measuring a constant natural phenomena. 383 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 2: That's a crucial clarification. We are constantly bathed in naturally 384 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,960 occurring background radiation. The key significance in the UAPx finding 385 00:19:46,079 --> 00:19:49,160 wasn't danger, It was the timing and the rate of energy. 386 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: They were looking for a non random correlation. 387 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,279 Speaker 2: Exactly, a statistically significant hit of higher than average energy 388 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,720 or rate that occurred at the exact same time as 389 00:19:57,759 --> 00:19:59,119 the visual camera anomaly. 390 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,519 Speaker 1: So the argument is a fly lands on the lens, 391 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:05,799 that's boring, But a fly lands on the lens at 392 00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:10,400 the precise moment a statistically anomalous energy spike hits our 393 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,319 particle detector. 394 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 2: Now, that is a remarkable, low probability coincidence that demands 395 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,359 further investigation. 396 00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:19,839 Speaker 1: Exactly. Even though they could later find more evidence to 397 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,559 suggest a prosaic explanation for the visual part the temporal 398 00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:27,319 coincidence with the measurable particle physics anomaly meant the event 399 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,599 couldn't just be closed as a simple case of a bug. 400 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,599 Speaker 2: That combination the visual ambiguity and the highly improbable coinciding 401 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,359 particle spike is what elevated it to an official ambiguity 402 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,880 and form the basis for the next phase of the investigation. 403 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: And that journey from ambiguity to anomaly it's defined by 404 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,359 scientific patients and statistical rigor. 405 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:50,839 Speaker 2: Professor Jatagus constantly stressed that the most important takeaway from 406 00:20:50,839 --> 00:20:53,200 the initial UAPx work wasn't the fly or not a 407 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,599 fly question. It was the need to establish proof or 408 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:02,039 disprove without immediately resorting to the non human intelligence the nhipothesis. 409 00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:04,079 Speaker 1: And that commitment to precision is what allows them to 410 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,720 push back against the academic stigma. They're injecting the rigorous 411 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,559 standards of particle physics, probably the most demanding science on Earth, 412 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,400 into a field that's historically relied on fuzzy data. 413 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 2: And this commitment led them to formally challenge Karl Sagan's 414 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:25,640 famous and often weaponized adage extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 415 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: That phrase has been used to bludge in UAP researchers 416 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,000 for decades. Right it demands a level of proof that 417 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,440 was basically impossible to achieve given the elusive nature of 418 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,759 the phenomena. It sets a hurdle without defining how high 419 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:38,000 it is. 420 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,839 Speaker 2: So the UAPx paper formally addressed this. They quantified what 421 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,119 extraordinary evidence actually means in the hard sciences. They established 422 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,279 the standard for declaring a UAP event a true anomaly 423 00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:50,519 at five sigma. 424 00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: Five sigma for our listeners. That's not just some fancy term. 425 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,240 That is the gold standard used in particle physics to 426 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:57,640 declare discovery like. 427 00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:00,039 Speaker 2: The discovery of the Higgs boson at the large Hadron. 428 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: Cool It means the statistical probability that your result is 429 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:05,799 just due to random chance is about one in three 430 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,799 point five million. 431 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,599 Speaker 2: That is the level of certainty required to move from 432 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,039 a theory to a declaration in fundamental physics, and applying 433 00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:17,680 this standard to UAPs is a revolutionary step. It moves 434 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,599 the discussion beyond semantics and personal belief. 435 00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: Now scientists can look at a data set and say, okay, 436 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,119 this observation is a two sigma so it's still a 437 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,720 fascinating ambiguity, or this is at five sigma and we 438 00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:32,400 can now tentatively declare a new unexplainable phenomenon. 439 00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: It provides a globally accepted statistical mechanism for vetting the extraordinary. 440 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: Beyond just defining that threshold, the UAPx team had to 441 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,240 develop brand new methodologies because the existing tools for UAP 442 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,880 analysis were either inadequate or classified. 443 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,279 Speaker 2: They basically had to invent the means to analyze their 444 00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:52,920 own data, and two new techniques really stand out. First, 445 00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:56,880 they developed custom AI and machine learning software for video analysis. 446 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,759 Speaker 3: This is k TAP, the Custom Target Analysis Protocol right, 447 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:03,200 and this software was designed specifically for automated motion detection 448 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,240 in fleer cameras, the military grade thermal imaging systems. 449 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,039 Speaker 1: And why is that so significant? 450 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: According to Jadagus, this is among the first, if not 451 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,359 the first, non governmental and non classified software of its 452 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,839 kind developed for this purpose. Historically, only classified labs had 453 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,319 access to this level of analytical automation. 454 00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: So they're democratizing sophisticated UAP detection for the wider scientific community. 455 00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:31,319 Speaker 2: They're moving the field out of the realm of proprietary 456 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,759 military data and into open source science. It's a true 457 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:35,960 academic breakthrough. 458 00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:37,799 Speaker 1: And the second technique. 459 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:41,839 Speaker 2: Second, they utilized publicly available data for cross corroboration. They 460 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,119 started analyzing Doppler weather radar data. 461 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: The same data meteorologists used to track storms exactly. 462 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: This allowed them to check if the radar systems also 463 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:54,400 registered anything unusual in the atmosphere that coincided with their 464 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,799 camera and radiation hits. 465 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: Did the weather radar prove anything? 466 00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: They found some hits, but again Jadagus noted they were 467 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,799 ambiguous and on the border of statistical significance. They were 468 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:06,839 consistent with the difficulty of the finding, but not conclusive 469 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,960 enough to establish five sigma proof. 470 00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:11,839 Speaker 1: But the fact they're using public data streams to try 471 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,519 and corroborate events is part of this new commitment to 472 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,559 verifiable Mulli source evidence. 473 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,319 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 474 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: Okay, let's pivot to the speculative side of things. Professor 475 00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:26,599 jattigis explicitly mentioned wanting to bring atomic clocks on future expeditions. 476 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,799 Why would a particle physicist need an incredibly precise, millisecond 477 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,960 accurate timekeeping device to investigate things flying off the coast 478 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,559 of LA This sounds like it's leaning into the WU 479 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,680 side of the discussion. 480 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:43,319 Speaker 2: That's a fair challenge, but the scientific philosophy here is crucial. 481 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,920 You have to test even the craziest hypotheses rigorously. Okay, 482 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,519 Jaddig has admitted this directly addresses One of the most 483 00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:53,960 speculative effects alleged in UAP accounts, especially from hot spots 484 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,440 like Skinwalker Ranch, the idea of localized time distortions, the claims. 485 00:24:58,079 --> 00:25:00,599 Speaker 1: That clocks speed up or slow down, or that people 486 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,480 lose minutes or hours near. These phenomena class spacetime. 487 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,519 Speaker 2: Weirdness exactly, and Jadagus argues that instead of just dismissing 488 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:10,480 these consistent anecdotal reports, you have to test them. He 489 00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:13,960 believes that if UAPs are manipulating space time or generating 490 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:18,519 massive localized energy fields, they might be inducing subtle gravitational 491 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,920 or temporal distortions that could be measurable with an atomic. 492 00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: Clock, and those might correlate with the GPS disruptions. 493 00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: Potentially, if you can precisely measure time down to nanoseconds 494 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:32,839 using atomic clocks, you can begin to prove or disprove 495 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,759 the influence of a UAP on spacetime itself. 496 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that intellectual honesty instead of ridicule. The 497 00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:42,880 response is just robust, cutting. 498 00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:45,559 Speaker 2: Edge testing, and that's the entire point of this new era. 499 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,480 Jadagus emphasized that they shoved all these achievements the definition 500 00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:52,599 of five sigma the KTEP software. The Doppler use the 501 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,559 need for atomic clocks into one peer reviewed paper. Because 502 00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,200 due to the decades of taboo, they knew they might 503 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,480 not get another chance to publish UAP work in such 504 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:02,279 a major journal. 505 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: They had to maximize the impact immediately to push the 506 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,319 field forward. That extensive background sets the stage for what 507 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,880 is I think the most thrilling part of the investigation, 508 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:15,920 Ben Hansen's attempt to get corroborating data directly in the 509 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,440 sky above the initial ambiguity. 510 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: This wasn't just some random flight. This was a targeted 511 00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:25,519 scientific search that resulted in a series of localized, cumulative 512 00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:27,039 electronic nightmares. 513 00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: Hanson's plan was meticulous. It was based directly on the 514 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,640 UAPx findings. He took off from Long Beach Airport in 515 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,559 a light plane flying at five thousand feet. 516 00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: An altitude that was roughly estimated by Professor Kanuth as 517 00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:42,160 the potential height of the original terror in the sky ambiguity, 518 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,960 assuming it was a real airborne event, and he flew. 519 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,759 Speaker 1: That lawnmower grid pattern back and forth, gradually heading further 520 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:51,880 out toward the ocean, inside a rectangular area that Professor 521 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,799 Kannuth had geometrically calculated based on the physics of the 522 00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:56,319 twenty twenty one ambiguity. 523 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,319 Speaker 2: He was flying into a mathematically predicted box of weirdness. 524 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,559 Speaker 1: He was, and as he conducted the survey, he also 525 00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:05,599 did a little secondary mission. He briefly checked the San 526 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,759 Pedro area, which is near the hotspot for the notorious 527 00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:11,079 jetpack lax man sightings. 528 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 2: Right and Hanson theorizes that those sightings might not be 529 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680 a man in a jetpack at all, but could be 530 00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:20,359 low altitude components of these deeper offshore phenomena. 531 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: But the real action, the real drama, happened when he 532 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,000 approached the boundary of that mathematically predicted target zone. 533 00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: And what makes this so compelling is the cumulative nature 534 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,599 of it all. It wasn't one piece of equipment failing. 535 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,559 It was three simultaneous, localized anomalies that you just can't 536 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:41,519 easily attribute to pilot error or poor maintenance. 537 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,079 Speaker 1: The first, and maybe most concerning from a data perspective, 538 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,160 involved the Cosmic Watch particle detector he had running inside 539 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,720 the cockpit. 540 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:52,599 Speaker 2: Okay, so as he neared the boundary of the calculated zone, 541 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,480 the cosmic Watch started picking up particles, muons and other 542 00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:58,519 high energy radiation at rates that were suddenly off the charts. 543 00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't just a slight increase, No, it. 544 00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,559 Speaker 2: Was a massive, non prosaic data spike, and then just 545 00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:08,039 as suddenly it froze. The device stopped taking data entirely, 546 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,880 even though the internal power remained on. 547 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,279 Speaker 1: His team member confirmed it. The unit was powered, but 548 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,440 the data logs were empty, as if the device had 549 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,079 been overwhelmed and just crashed. 550 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,279 Speaker 2: And let's just re emphasize the chilling analysis that Professor 551 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720 Jaddigus provided about this failure mode. Yeah, he could only 552 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:29,079 replicate that exact stoppage when the cosmic Watch was exposed 553 00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:34,400 to extremely high, potentially lethal levels of ionizing radiation, far 554 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,359 beyond what is naturally occurring. 555 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,559 Speaker 1: Now. Jadigus was quick to reassure everyone that those lethal 556 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,279 levels did not actually happen to Hansen, or he'd be 557 00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:44,279 severely injured, of course. 558 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 2: But the fact that the detector suffered that specific rare 559 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:52,279 failure mode overwhelmed and frozen, and only resumed normal operation 560 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,400 immediately after the plane left that rectangular target area that 561 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,640 is hugely significant. 562 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: It suggests a temporary, highly localized non natural energy spike, 563 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,599 or maybe a localized electromagnetic field that scrambled the device's 564 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,599 internal processing. 565 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,759 Speaker 2: It experienced the effect of legal radiation without the actual cause, 566 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,960 a localized, concentrated assault on the instrumentation itself. 567 00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:15,119 Speaker 1: Then there was the second anomaly, and for a pilot 568 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,079 in that airspace, this is unnerving. The GPSADSB disappearance. 569 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,039 Speaker 2: Hanson was using his iPad with the four flight app 570 00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:26,039 which relies on GPS data and ADSB. As he flew 571 00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:29,799 into the boundary box, his plane icon instantly vanished. He said, 572 00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:32,200 it was as if I just disappeared off the planet. 573 00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: Just think about the implications of that. His plane is 574 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:39,799 legally mandated to broadcast its position via ADSB to air 575 00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:43,279 traffic control and to other aircraft for collision avoidance. 576 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,319 Speaker 2: And the GPS unit was still powered on, but the 577 00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:49,400 ability to transmit accurate position data was just gone. And 578 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:50,480 this was repeatable. 579 00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:52,599 Speaker 1: The icon returned as soon as he left the box 580 00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:54,319 and disappeared again when he flew back in. 581 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,599 Speaker 2: Which raised a severe aviation security concern. Hanson noted that 582 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,599 this kind of signal block goods or spoofing is exactly 583 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,440 the type of incident that worries federal regulators because of 584 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,880 fears of terrorism or external interference. 585 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,319 Speaker 1: If an external source can suddenly blind air traffic control 586 00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:13,599 to a plane's presence, that's a major immediate hazard. 587 00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:16,119 Speaker 2: And this leads to that ultimate unanswered question that the 588 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,119 critique highlighted. If this is an NHI base, and they 589 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,799 prioritize concealment, why would their technology interfere in a way 590 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,680 that so obviously flags its presence by causing a failure. 591 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be more effective to just spoof the data 592 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,000 make the signal look perfectly normal. 593 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,519 Speaker 2: It suggests two powerful possibilities. One, their technology, while advanced, 594 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,200 is imperfect, and the interference is just an unavoidable byproduct 595 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:41,119 like engine noise. 596 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: Or Two, the intent isn't concealment from aircraft, but maybe 597 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,440 a kind of localized defense mechanism, a sort of electronic 598 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:51,200 keepout field designed to disrupt human monitoring. 599 00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: And finally, the third anomaly, the VHF radio failure. 600 00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: Hanson had been talking with air traffic control the whole 601 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,519 flight on his primary radio one. He'd even done an 602 00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:06,039 evasive maneuver with the Southwest flight hours earlier using that exact. 603 00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: Radio, But when he needed to contact SoCal approach for landing, clearance. 604 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,440 As he was leaving the area, Radio one went completely silent. 605 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:13,519 He got crickets. 606 00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:16,279 Speaker 1: He had to immediately switch to his backup radio two 607 00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:17,599 to regain communication. 608 00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:20,599 Speaker 2: So you stack them up. A radiation detector shut down, 609 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,359 GPS signal loss, and a VHF radio failure, all happening 610 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,559 within the scientifically predicted target area. The cumulative coincidence is 611 00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:32,480 statistically very very difficult to dismiss as just three separate, 612 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,319 random technical glitches. 613 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,119 Speaker 1: It strongly implies that something non prosaic is affecting the 614 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,880 electromagnetic spectrum in that specific geographic area. 615 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,559 Speaker 2: Moving from that localized, verifiable data to the broader hypothesis 616 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,279 unidentified submerged objects or USOS. 617 00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: Ben Hansen's a professional skeptic, but his cumulative experience in 618 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,759 this area led him to a very specific, high confidence 619 00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:58,960 conclusion about the Catalina triangle. 620 00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: He starts with the op via strategic reality. Seventy percent 621 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,480 of the Earth is covered by water. Statistically, it's just 622 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,200 probable they operate there. But strategically the ocean provides the 623 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,279 perfect environment for long term stealthy reconnaissance. 624 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: And we keep coming back to that unique depth profile 625 00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:16,720 near Catalina. That's the key. 626 00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:20,279 Speaker 2: Yes, the deep channels offer an immediate thousand feet deep 627 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,559 hidden vantage point right next to the massive population centers 628 00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:27,559 of La and Orange County. Hanson notes that every local pier, 629 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,240 every major beach in that region connects to an underwater 630 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,480 canyon that quickly drops thousands of feet. 631 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,359 Speaker 1: Which means an NHI could be observing humanity's most active, 632 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,559 technologically advanced coastal zone while staying thousands of feet below 633 00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,200 the surface, undetectable to all but the most specialized sonar. 634 00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: It makes the idea of a base, which the US 635 00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:52,240 Navy itself wants surveyed for with Project Rock site incredibly 636 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:55,880 plausible for anyone seeking permanent strategic concealment. 637 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,039 Speaker 1: It's not a crazy fantasy, it's a geographical opportunity. 638 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,799 Speaker 2: And Hanson brought up the fascinating pigeons analogy. 639 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is from the experience of a radar operator, 640 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,240 Kevin Randall Right. 641 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: Randall observed objects near Catalina that would essentially behave like 642 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,720 pigeons in a park. When naval forces approach, the objects 643 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,279 would scatter, disappear, and evade detection, But as soon as 644 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:17,119 the ship's. 645 00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: Left, the objects returned to their original positions. 646 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: It's a brilliant analogy. Pigeons in a park don't want 647 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,799 anything to do with you. They're there for their own purposes, 648 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:27,359 but they are clearly aware of your presence and they 649 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:30,039 have an immediate, repeatable evasion strategy. 650 00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: It suggests awareness, intelligence, and emission that is not directly hostile, 651 00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:37,279 but highly protective of its own operation. 652 00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:41,119 Speaker 2: This raises the essential question about intent. Are they observing 653 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,480 us or are they here for resources or something else entirely, 654 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:48,240 and a huge clue might lie in the extensive local 655 00:33:48,279 --> 00:33:50,759 military presence that overlaps with this hotspot. 656 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: The backside of Cataline Island, San Clemente is primarily owned 657 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,119 by the Navy and used constantly for demolitions, naval exercises, 658 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,279 advanced training. It's a highly active, highly restricted military zone. 659 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: So the question becomes one of causality. Is the NHI 660 00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:08,639 interested because the Navy trains there, meaning they're monitoring our 661 00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:11,400 most advanced military capabilities, or is. 662 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: The Navy training there because of the known NHI activity 663 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:18,079 hoping to monitor, counter, or understand it. 664 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: It's a classic chicken and egg scenario, but the correlation 665 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:22,000 is undeniable. 666 00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,159 Speaker 1: So after all this analysis, the history, the unique geography, 667 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,800 the institutionalized government interest, the confirmed magnetic anomalies that scientifically 668 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,239 defined the ambiguity, and finally, the triple localized equipment malfunction 669 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,519 in the predicted zone. I think we have enough to 670 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:38,320 ask about Ben Hansen's final. 671 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:42,639 Speaker 2: Assessment after years of skeptical investigation and debriefing witnesses, does 672 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:46,159 he personally believe there is a non human intelligence presence 673 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:47,360 in the Catalina Triangle. 674 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: His answer was unequivocal. He gives it a good ninety 675 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,360 percent chance. 676 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: A good ninety percent chance. He says that if he 677 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,719 were to bet money on where to search for NHI 678 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,079 presence on Earth, that area the Kabalina Triangle would be 679 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,760 the absolute best place to. 680 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,039 Speaker 1: Look, and he ties this high confidence level back to 681 00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:10,440 his own significant, high impact sighting of a large black triangle. 682 00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 2: Craft that came from the direction of Catalina and moved 683 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,400 over Huntington Beach. For Hanson, the combination of his personal 684 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,559 sighting with the cumulative objective evidence collected by UAPx has 685 00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:24,039 just solidified his conviction that this specific coastal region is 686 00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,679 active and utilized by something non prosaic. 687 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: The scientific data and the physical experience now reinforced the 688 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:33,920 historical claims. We've moved from relying solely on eyewitness accounts 689 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,559 to having verifiable data, a frozen radiation detector, a block 690 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:41,079 GPS signal, all converging on one specific point in the ocean. 691 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,079 Speaker 2: It shifts the debate from belief to quantifiable fact. 692 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for you listening to this? 693 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,480 We started this thrilling thread with a very cautious, pure 694 00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:55,519 reviewed scientific paper that carefully labeled an event and ambiguity 695 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,599 and just urged further study. 696 00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:00,280 Speaker 2: And we followed that study, which led directly to Alet 697 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,840 experiencing three simultaneous severe equipment failures, including GPS signal loss 698 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,360 and a radiation detector shut down in the exact target 699 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,280 zone mapped out by the physicists. 700 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,079 Speaker 1: We've seen how serious scientists are now pushing back against 701 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:18,239 decades of stigma, defining statistical proof with a five sigma standard, 702 00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,920 publishing in top academic journals, and developing brand new tools 703 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,079 like k tap software, and using particle detectors to quantify 704 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:26,679 these extremely elusive effects. 705 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,559 Speaker 2: The discussion is no longer about greeny photographs. It's about 706 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,000 verifiable physical interference with advanced instrumentation repeatedly occurring in a 707 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:36,880 highly strategic patch of ocean. 708 00:36:37,199 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: So here's the final thought. If a non human intelligence 709 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,559 or whatever is operating thousands of feet beneath the ocean 710 00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:46,599 utilizes a mechanism whose primary defense is simply to interfere 711 00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:49,440 with the detection systems of anyone who gets too close. 712 00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:54,159 Does the sheer cumulative and mathematically improbable coincidence of those 713 00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:58,559 three localized malfunctions, the GPS loss, the radio silence, the 714 00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:01,800 detective freeze. Does that become stronger, more reliable evidence than 715 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,079 any clear picture could ever be. 716 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 2: What do you think is happening in the deep dark 717 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,320 channels off the coast of California. 718 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts. Thank you for diving deep 719 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:10,760 with us on thrilling threads