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Speaker 1: What are you doing of inequality and fascism? Seriously, I'm trying.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do a promo here for who What
Speaker 1: are you doing? Welcome to the Othering Podcast with my Candori.
Speaker 5: Hello, Hello, I'm good. How are you doing good?
Speaker 6: All right?
Speaker 1: Today we are talking to Liz Douglas. Liz is a
Speaker 1: marathon runner, activist, women's health advocate, and single queer mom. Professionally,
Speaker 1: she has been an entrepreneur and worked with many and
Speaker 1: emerging tech startups and global businesses. She has had to
Speaker 1: navigate the challenges of living with endometriosis, adenimosis, fibroids, hypermobility, CPTSD,
Speaker 1: and anxiety, all while balancing these aspects of her identity.
Speaker 1: Liz likes to create content on her invisible illnesses, usually
Speaker 1: while training for marathons using her platform for disability awareness.
Speaker 1: Raising money for charities as her passion, and she most
Speaker 1: recently ran the Brighton Marathon for Cancer Research UK and
Speaker 1: we'll run the twenty twenty six London Marathon for Since UK,
Speaker 1: which is a charity that helps people with disabilities of
Speaker 1: any age. Welcome, Liz, that's great to have you, so.
Speaker 7: Great to have you, and we are thrilled to talk
Speaker 7: to you. Like, that's amazing. Your accomplishments are really amazing.
Speaker 2: And if it's.
Speaker 7: Okay with you, I'm proud of you because, like you know,
Speaker 7: that is really amazing accomplishments. And I don't mean to
Speaker 7: come off as like, you know, silly or something, but
Speaker 7: it's just genuinely like easy what you've done, and especially
Speaker 7: the running part, because I running is not my forte
Speaker 7: it would.
Speaker 2: It would not work for me.
Speaker 7: How did you find running to be you know, your center.
Speaker 5: You know. I think I've always been very very active,
Speaker 5: and I've always used exercise and movement as a way
Speaker 5: to connect, you know, the mind and the body. And
Speaker 5: especially after a pretty traumatic event where I just felt
Speaker 5: very very disconnected from my mind and body, I started
Speaker 5: with dance and dancing publicly and doing performances, and then
Speaker 5: I was in Cappawetta for a little bit got kicked
Speaker 5: in the face too much, so I was like, okay,
Speaker 5: done with that. I need to I was encouraged by
Speaker 5: actually some of the people that I was doing Capeta
Speaker 5: with to start running with them, and that began my
Speaker 5: running journey. I also found it as a as a
Speaker 5: good way to feel that I actually had control over
Speaker 5: my body, which was I felt like I had no
Speaker 5: control over my own body when I was pregnant with
Speaker 5: my kiddo, and the only time that I felt a
Speaker 5: piece and that I had control over my body was
Speaker 5: when I was running. And it was also like good
Speaker 5: for pain management for me. At that time, I didn't
Speaker 5: really understand why because the doctors weren't giving me reasons why.
Speaker 5: But when I finally flash forwards, like last year when
Speaker 5: I was diagnosed with endometriosis I was describing to her.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, sometimes the only thing that takes
Speaker 5: the pain away is when I go out for a run.
Speaker 5: She goes, oh, yeah, yeah, classic endometriosis like sense of
Speaker 5: that actually does help with the pain. So that was
Speaker 5: a very long journey to you to understand why running
Speaker 5: and movement was actually really beneficial for.
Speaker 7: Me, especially because at those times you want to curl
Speaker 7: up into a ball and you know, like put rocks
Speaker 7: in your stomach or anything to kind of stop the pain,
Speaker 7: and it seems like, you know, any type of movement
Speaker 7: would be like the wrong thing to ever do. I
Speaker 7: don't think I had endometriosis, but I have severely painful periods.
Speaker 7: And the times that I couldn't do anything because I
Speaker 7: was in school were worse than when I was riding
Speaker 7: a horse, Like I could deal with it when I
Speaker 7: was riding horses because you're so focused, for one thing,
Speaker 7: on you know, not dying, because the horse could you know,
Speaker 7: fling you anytime. And also the physicality of it just
Speaker 7: constantly moving and you know, moving around your body, you
Speaker 7: can't focus very well.
Speaker 5: On the pain.
Speaker 7: It's not to say that that's a cure all or anything.
Speaker 7: But it does make a difference.
Speaker 5: Absolutely it does. And there have been times where I
Speaker 5: haven't been able to do it actually because with the
Speaker 5: inflammation from the endometriosis, what's happening with me, how it
Speaker 5: presents and me and other people that may have this condition,
Speaker 5: is that I will get nerve pain that extends all
Speaker 5: the way down my right leg, and that is what
Speaker 5: would send me to my bed, curled up in a
Speaker 5: ball and I could not walk, I could not definitely
Speaker 5: could not run, and I would just be there for
Speaker 5: a day or two. And so that that scenario has
Speaker 5: happened to me too, and I'm still navigating that that
Speaker 5: nerve pain, but it is less severe after the surgery happens.
Speaker 5: But you're right, you're the focus is also a good
Speaker 5: point to point out, like when you are when you
Speaker 5: have that goal in mind with that movement, I think
Speaker 5: it does. It can, just yes, And I.
Speaker 1: Would imagine that helps a lot with the mental health
Speaker 1: as well. I know for me when I'm in bad
Speaker 1: depression and stuff, if I go do something and I'm
Speaker 1: busy and distracted makes a big difference. I'm sure running
Speaker 1: is a great way to get your mind off of
Speaker 1: things and to focus and makes a big difference.
Speaker 5: There, huge difference, huge difference. It makes a difference in
Speaker 5: my nude. In fact, I think even my kiddo notices that.
Speaker 5: He's like, Mommy, you need to go for a wrong.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really bad when your kid's like, here's your keys, you.
Speaker 5: Know, run and I'll see you in like thirty minutes
Speaker 5: to an hour.
Speaker 7: Yes, And that distraction I think, you know, it comes
Speaker 7: at a great not comes it is a great point
Speaker 7: because there are so many things like for like I said,
Speaker 7: for me, you know, riding horses was a great distraction,
Speaker 7: and shooting guns, which sounds weird, but that whole process
Speaker 7: of having to completely blank your mind because you're you
Speaker 7: have to focus so much on what you're doing so
Speaker 7: that you don't, you know, in your case, trip and
Speaker 7: hurt yourself and you know you got to kind of
Speaker 7: keep your form and all of that just kind of
Speaker 7: also helps with the brain because you can't have those
Speaker 7: intrusive thoughts because it's dangerous.
Speaker 1: So I have a random question about running, not so
Speaker 1: much related to the chronic illness behind it. How long
Speaker 1: did it take you from starting to enjoying running to
Speaker 1: be able to get up to marathons. Oh goodness, that
Speaker 1: seems like a huge accomplishment.
Speaker 5: It is, and you know, I run them and buy
Speaker 5: mile twenty I'm like, why did I do this? And
Speaker 5: by the end of it then I'm like, Okay, I'll
Speaker 5: do it again. But I often tell people, I'm like,
Speaker 5: a marathon is just six miles too long for me. Yeah,
Speaker 5: which means that I'll never be an ultra marathon. Twenty
Speaker 5: six is good good enough. I think it took. It
Speaker 5: took a few years to where I, you know, I
Speaker 5: was doing half marathons with my friends and then I said,
Speaker 5: you know, I really really want to challenge myself and
Speaker 5: and do this marathon. And what happened was I ended
Speaker 5: up training for the marathon while I was pregnant. Wow,
Speaker 5: because it was it wasn't supposed to be time that way,
Speaker 5: but it was so and and because of that that
Speaker 5: training and that focus, Like once I did that marathon,
Speaker 5: and it wasn't a beautiful place too. It was in Bermuda,
Speaker 5: so like.
Speaker 2: You can't oh wow, okay, yeah.
Speaker 5: So you know that one, that one I really really enjoyed.
Speaker 5: It was like something that I also, you know, was
Speaker 5: able to share with my kiddo. He was. He was
Speaker 5: running the marathons with me, so that was enjoyable as well.
Speaker 1: You always enjoyed running and exercises. And I mean you
Speaker 1: said you were doing dance. Is that something you've enjoyed
Speaker 1: since you were a kid.
Speaker 5: No, well, I was like a late bloomer, so I
Speaker 5: didn't do any sports and in high school or younger,
Speaker 5: but when I got to college I did. I did
Speaker 5: start running too.
Speaker 7: If you don't mind me asking again, you know, we
Speaker 7: can edit this out if you'd like. But I was
Speaker 7: just wondering, how have you been able to take care
Speaker 7: of yourself? Because you're a single mother and most of
Speaker 7: the people that we've gotten to talk to usually have
Speaker 7: a significant other or a partner type of thing that's
Speaker 7: there to help when things get bad. How have you
Speaker 7: handled being single and you know, dealing with your different diagnoses.
Speaker 5: Yes, so I have a lot of responses to that.
Speaker 5: So let me keep it with these different different illnesses.
Speaker 5: First off, I have a really lovely chosen family, both
Speaker 5: near and far. Like I said, there's there's some in
Speaker 5: the UK, there's some here that are really willing to
Speaker 5: step in or even if I just need to call
Speaker 5: them on the phone and that's the support that I
Speaker 5: need is just to talk with somebody that day. I
Speaker 5: feel very very lucky to have the support network that
Speaker 5: I do. So, and I've also I stayed off to
Speaker 5: social media for a really long time, a really long
Speaker 5: time working in the tech industry. I'm a bit suspect
Speaker 5: of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 5: But I got on onto Instagram finally because I did
Speaker 5: feel that I had a few friends that kind of
Speaker 5: knew about these different illnesses, but not a huge community
Speaker 5: where I could go and I could talk to. So
Speaker 5: I feel very blessed for the people that I've met
Speaker 5: through that. So not all social media is bad. You
Speaker 5: can have a very lovely community in the chronic on
Speaker 5: this space, and so I feel very fortunate to have
Speaker 5: met They happen to be all women, so all women
Speaker 5: that are in this space, and we share our stories.
Speaker 5: We help each other out, like having this symptom today,
Speaker 5: can you help me or suggest something, or even helping
Speaker 5: them navigate the US healthcare system, which is absolutely insane. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and trying to help with like even just getting on
Speaker 5: disability or medical It's just crazy, it is.
Speaker 7: I just recently learned how before nineteen seventy three It
Speaker 7: used to be that all of our insurance companies were nonprofits,
Speaker 7: so they had to, you know, work for us, and
Speaker 7: it was Nixon that decided, you know what, let's change
Speaker 7: that anyway. Yeah, and here we are.
Speaker 5: So many problems begun with them. Yes, yes they do.
Speaker 7: And I'm glad that you mentioned those things because community
Speaker 7: is a huge thing, especially for even if you're married,
Speaker 7: even if you have that other person, it's really great
Speaker 7: to have that community because for me, you have You
Speaker 7: guys are like the most welcoming people I have ever met.
Speaker 7: And I thank you all so much because not only
Speaker 7: are you like welcoming, but you're like individually wonderful and
Speaker 7: it's nice. It again, it sucks that we have to
Speaker 7: be in pain or disabled in such in order to
Speaker 7: find each other, but I think that at the same time,
Speaker 7: that makes it more beautiful because then we have that
Speaker 7: camaraderie that can't be taken absolutely.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's it is beautiful and it is Yeah, nobody
Speaker 5: can take us that away from us, like not our
Speaker 5: the toxic people in our life. Yes, the toxic some
Speaker 5: of the toxic things that we're experiencing just on a
Speaker 5: day to day political and environment and all these things.
Speaker 5: But when we have these points of connection, like deep connection,
Speaker 5: I feel like, Okay, the world isn't so bad.
Speaker 7: And that's the other thing is that I think, at
Speaker 7: least for me, being able to meet the people that
Speaker 7: I've gotten to meet so far has shown me that, yeah,
Speaker 7: everybody is and trumps you know, because the media, especially
Speaker 7: social media in news and everything just kind of pushes
Speaker 7: their narratives. So you kind of get this feeling of
Speaker 7: everybody's like that, oh my god, there is no hope.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're awful.
Speaker 6: I have I have not.
Speaker 5: Even don't bother.
Speaker 7: And so you get this feeling of they're just horrible
Speaker 7: people everywhere and there's nobody good. And when I started,
Speaker 7: you know, meeting everybody in both the LGBTQ and disabled communities,
Speaker 7: it was just like, oh my god, there are these
Speaker 7: are my people. These are really good people. They're sweet,
Speaker 7: they're smart, they're you know, they're wonderful, and they're actually
Speaker 7: happy too. And it's just and I don't mean happy
Speaker 7: in a flippant way, but happy as in you all
Speaker 7: have found your meanings and you're able to not only
Speaker 7: enjoy your own meaning but help other people find it too,
Speaker 7: and you know, that's a huge thing that a lot
Speaker 7: of people can't do unfortunately unfortunately.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if I can help another person, like even if
Speaker 5: it's just one person, I feel very very fortunate and
Speaker 5: very honored to be able to help that other person.
Speaker 1: So, going from getting on social media finding that community,
Speaker 1: to your advocacy that you do online, what did that
Speaker 1: process kind of look like? Were you going into social
Speaker 1: media with that intention or did that grow later as
Speaker 1: you realized these people are awesome?
Speaker 5: I think it was how I'd like to I'd like
Speaker 5: to see what's out there in terms of the endometia
Speaker 5: criosis community where I mean, but it is, it is
Speaker 5: shocking to me how how little is known. Like I
Speaker 5: didn't even know what I no myosis was until I
Speaker 5: was diagnosed with it. I'm like, what, I don't know what, Like,
Speaker 5: I've never heard of this. Why haven't anybody anybody in
Speaker 5: the nearly thirty pleasure years I've suffered with this ever
Speaker 5: mentioned They were just like, Oh, you're bleeding for months
Speaker 5: on and that sucks for you, doesn't it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what's the only only explanation that I would get.
Speaker 5: So I was like, maybe maybe there's like some other
Speaker 5: people out here, and I just I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 5: realize that when I got on in January earlier this
Speaker 5: year that I'd end up doing a five ka for
Speaker 5: fibroids as I was training and you know, doing the
Speaker 5: research to be every day to be able to like
Speaker 5: talk on this particular topic on that five kDa for
Speaker 5: fibroids or excuse me. I did a five kDa for
Speaker 5: fivebrids in July, and then five kDa for endometriosis in March,
Speaker 5: which is Endometriosis Awareness Month, and then Android's Awareness Month
Speaker 5: is in July. So I did the Fibroids Awareness Month
Speaker 5: in support of the Fibroids Foundation, which is a wonderful organization.
Speaker 5: I should mention them too, because this organization helped me
Speaker 5: during when I first found out about my diagnosis, and
Speaker 5: even you know, Terry, she sent me a text like
Speaker 5: I hope your operation, Hope the surgery went well, you know,
Speaker 5: Like so just having that support, I was like, as
Speaker 5: soon as I'm able to, I'm going to help y'all
Speaker 5: with the five kday for Fibroids to raise money for
Speaker 5: them back in July. And I had no idea that
Speaker 5: that's where my journey would take me. But I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I really I really love being if I have the
Speaker 5: power to do this, I really want to be able
Speaker 5: to do this as long as I can do it,
Speaker 5: as like even up tell my nineties, you could.
Speaker 7: I mean, there was a woman who was eighty eight
Speaker 7: who recently started, you know, weightlifting, So if she can
Speaker 7: do it, yeah, I'm sure you can run into your nineties.
Speaker 1: So I've got the million dollar question. They always say
Speaker 1: when you have bad periods and a lot of pain,
Speaker 1: just have a baby. That'll help. So when you had
Speaker 1: a baby, did that help? I figured I figured out
Speaker 1: put it out there for everyone to know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you for bringing that up, because that is
Speaker 5: such a huge myth, just just have a baby. And
Speaker 5: I found out about my fibroids when I was pregnant
Speaker 5: with my son and I had ultrasounds in the past.
Speaker 5: I didn't have fibroids before having being pregnant, and it
Speaker 5: was so much dismissed. It was dismissed as, oh, this
Speaker 5: happens to every woman when they're like because of the
Speaker 5: hormones when you're pregnant, like, don't don't worry about it,
Speaker 5: Like it'll be fine. Yeah, And they absolutely were something
Speaker 5: to worry about, and they got they they got worse
Speaker 5: over time, and I got the sell me coastal vibroids,
Speaker 5: which are just those are the ones that probably made
Speaker 5: me believe I was bleeding for months on. But yeah,
Speaker 5: the whole pregnancy mess absolutely like garbage.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that and he knows that too, because it
Speaker 7: didn't help me with my pain at all. Like it
Speaker 7: took until my third kid. And it's not to say
Speaker 7: everybody have three kids, but it it wasn't until my
Speaker 7: third child that I finally got some relief.
Speaker 6: I think it was that I had to have like
Speaker 6: after the third kid and a now UD And as
Speaker 6: wonderful as how u d's are, they're not for everybody.
Speaker 5: Everybody, that's correct, and it's yeah.
Speaker 7: It was awesome, But that's the thing that I don't
Speaker 7: understand is why are we prescribing pregnancy to everybody?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's also I feel like it's rooted in
Speaker 5: a very heteronormative approach and you see it in things
Speaker 5: like that, like little microaggressions like just get pregnant, or
Speaker 5: even my post surgery instructions where don't have don't put
Speaker 5: anything in your vagina or have sex because it assumed.
Speaker 5: I was like, that's in the same sentence, and because
Speaker 5: I like to pick apart, like I bet you this
Speaker 5: was written by man. Yeah, I bet you like that
Speaker 5: implies penetrative sex. There can be sex of all types, right, right,
Speaker 5: And I felt very offended by seeing that in my
Speaker 5: post operative instructions, even though I know it's just like krinted,
Speaker 5: They're not tailoring it to anybody, and it wasn't directed
Speaker 5: at me, but like, but at.
Speaker 7: The same time, it was yeah, and even you know
Speaker 7: those words, you know, we have to choose carefully because
Speaker 7: there are men that suffer from endometriosis. That's correct, cis tendered.
Speaker 7: Men that suffer from endometriosis. Are you gonna say after
Speaker 7: their surgery, don't have penetrated you know, don't put anything
Speaker 7: in your vagina heights? I mean, so you have We
Speaker 7: can't always just relate to not relate, but just use
Speaker 7: the general, you know, wording, because it doesn't fit everybody.
Speaker 5: It doesn't fit anybody everybody, and like it's and I
Speaker 5: got my surgery done at a very progressive, like very
Speaker 5: queer friendly place. I got it done at Stanford and
Speaker 5: and so they it is. I don't know how it
Speaker 5: is in areas where you don't like have have a
Speaker 5: hospital like that that is queer friendly, and even a
Speaker 5: queer friendly hospital is putting out those kinds of instructions
Speaker 5: and guidance, and yeah, like, how how much worse is
Speaker 5: it in other places.
Speaker 7: Where honestly I shudder to think at how awful it is,
Speaker 7: and especially like conservative areas, because you know, you can
Speaker 7: be conservative, you can be progressive and all that stuff.
Speaker 7: But the problem is when you take someone else's humanity
Speaker 7: and say it's not right, when you know, you take
Speaker 7: somebody else's feelings and thoughts and say, well, because you
Speaker 7: don't think like me, you're worthless. And that's the problem
Speaker 7: that I have. And you know them saying well, don't
Speaker 7: stick anything in your vagina. The vagina I always keep.
Speaker 7: My Southern accent makes me say virgina, and it's it
Speaker 7: is offensive. Why can't you just say epstein, you know,
Speaker 7: use more inclusive language.
Speaker 5: That would be an amazing change to make. And words
Speaker 5: do matter, absolutely, Yes, I don't have an answer as
Speaker 5: to why they haven't done it yet, but I you know,
Speaker 5: we have so many decades upon decades of discrimination within
Speaker 5: the medical the medical industry. I was going to call
Speaker 5: it the medical field, but the industry, it is kind of.
Speaker 7: Like an industry. And it's a shame because, like you know,
Speaker 7: it wasn't until nineteen ninety three when they finally started
Speaker 7: including a FABS in medical studies. They still haven't tested
Speaker 7: you know, certain drugs and things like that on a FABS,
Speaker 7: and so you have no clue how it's going to work. Necessarily,
Speaker 7: it's a toss up and it's a crapshoot and it
Speaker 7: shouldn't be that way. And you know, I'm sick of
Speaker 7: people saying, well, you know, I understand that you're in pain, but.
Speaker 2: You're a girl.
Speaker 7: It's okay, Yeah, No, it's not under no circumstances. Should
Speaker 7: anybody be used to pain.
Speaker 5: Under no circumstances. Should it be that way? Absolutely not.
Speaker 5: And you can get that kind of mentality from very
Speaker 5: surprising places. I even got it from my mother growing up,
Speaker 5: because these painful periods, the debilitating nature of it, just like, oh,
Speaker 5: you're just trying to get out of school, and I
Speaker 5: was like, no, I'm not, absolutely not. I'd rather be
Speaker 5: in school, but I can't, can't. And her credit, she
Speaker 5: did come and take care of me after my surgery. Least,
Speaker 5: when she recalled, she's like, yeah, you have the hardest
Speaker 5: time with your periods growing up. I was like, I
Speaker 5: had to bite my phone. I looked up at credit.
Speaker 7: My mom had issues with her periods, and so when
Speaker 7: I came up having issues with mine, she was she
Speaker 7: already knew this isn't normal, but you know, science hasn't
Speaker 7: caught up with it yet, so you know, she would
Speaker 7: let me stay home on the days that it would start,
Speaker 7: and a lot of times she would try and get
Speaker 7: me out of school sometimes because she understood it how
Speaker 7: awful that pain is. Where you just I mean, I
Speaker 7: sat in class one time and just banged my head
Speaker 7: on my desk because it got that horrible and I
Speaker 7: couldn't leave early to take anything, and that constant banging
Speaker 7: still didn't even help, and I was hitting it hard.
Speaker 7: I mean I ended up with, like, you know, a
Speaker 7: nice bruise. And the fact that nobody thought anything of
Speaker 7: that even back then.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, nobody. Nobody thinks of it. And I also
Speaker 5: feel like there's a gap in education within the school
Speaker 5: setting the school environment, because they're just again talking about
Speaker 5: sex through a heteronormative ones, especially where I grew up up,
Speaker 5: which was very rural, but even in the area where
Speaker 5: I live in now, which is more progressive, I you know,
Speaker 5: offered to say, hey, like, the Endometriosis Foundation has a
Speaker 5: has a great program where you can go and like
Speaker 5: use their resources and go and volunteer and talk about this,
Speaker 5: and I was like, yeah, you know, people like it
Speaker 5: doesn't matter what their gender needs to be educated about
Speaker 5: this because it's so important for them to understand what
Speaker 5: is going on with with people that do have periods
Speaker 5: and and how this can affect their school and that
Speaker 5: it's a total body disease. It's not it is not
Speaker 5: just just stop the period, but it's total body and
Speaker 5: they were actually really receptive to it. But I wasn't
Speaker 5: a health professional, which I get. I understand why, Like
Speaker 5: you have to have credentials, which is good, but it
Speaker 5: also is a barrier to entry. When you have volunteers
Speaker 5: that want to go and do this in their own
Speaker 5: communities and.
Speaker 7: Help, I think a little bit of both. You know,
Speaker 7: somebody to come with you and you know, give the
Speaker 7: medical aspect of it in medical terms and things like that,
Speaker 7: and then somebody who has actually dealt with it to
Speaker 7: kind of give guidance on Okay, this is what you
Speaker 7: need to look for absolutely, because you know so many
Speaker 7: I understand the pain of the period, but I don't
Speaker 7: understand what to look for for, you know, a dentomiosis
Speaker 7: or endometriosis, and so you know, even if I was
Speaker 7: a medical doctor, I couldn't explain to students what to
Speaker 7: look for to say to their doctor, look, this is
Speaker 7: going on.
Speaker 5: I need you to check right. Yeah, there's and how
Speaker 5: those conditions can overlap too. Yeah. I had I had
Speaker 5: a friend reach out to me actually this morning and
Speaker 5: asked me, Hey, how do you distinguish and how are
Speaker 5: you diagnosed from indo and a dento? And I said,
Speaker 5: I can't distinguish between both except for one thing is
Speaker 5: that I had a bulky uterus before my surgery, and
Speaker 5: that is definitely on the a dentomiosis side. So my
Speaker 5: uterus was, like I think it was between two to
Speaker 5: three times larger than what it should be. After I
Speaker 5: had one of the many procedures that was part of
Speaker 5: the surgery that I had, the use radio frequency ablation
Speaker 5: on my u is seven times at seven different sides,
Speaker 5: and that helps shrink. Now now my uterus is no
Speaker 5: longer classified as a bulky uterus. So that's that's the
Speaker 5: only thing that I can tell you that like, that
Speaker 5: was definitely this one thing that is that is leading
Speaker 5: to it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's scary too, because like I had, they
Speaker 7: don't know for sure it was either a bicornt uterus.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, or I just.
Speaker 7: Have the lining hanging down and they're like, but you'll
Speaker 7: be fine. It's like, but that's just not normal, is it? No,
Speaker 7: not really, but you'll be okay, And it's just like,
Speaker 7: are you serious.
Speaker 1: I have a couple questions. The first one you might
Speaker 1: have answered this, and I'm sorry if you did. When
Speaker 1: did you finally get the diagnosis of the endometriosis?
Speaker 5: Finally? It's took Like I said, this started all when
Speaker 5: I was twelve. When I was when I had my
Speaker 5: first period, So it took thirty two years to get
Speaker 5: the diagnosis. So I got a last last year, last July,
Speaker 5: and you had.
Speaker 1: The surgery pretty soon.
Speaker 5: Thereafter I did. I was fortunate to be able to
Speaker 5: get it.
Speaker 1: Did that help? Do you feel a big difference?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 1: Yes and no, because I know they're not always that successful, I.
Speaker 5: Guess, so yes, and I no longer have periods, thank goodness,
Speaker 5: And that is the large part due to the iev
Speaker 5: that they put back in after they went in and
Speaker 5: did their multiple procedures that that my care team did
Speaker 5: and that's amazing, so that that helps with one aspect.
Speaker 5: I started to get weird pains like muscle spasms within
Speaker 5: my obliques. Like the recovery time took twice as long
Speaker 5: as I thought I would and that the doctor thought
Speaker 5: it would, so they had to extend my disability. The
Speaker 5: pain that goes down my leg, which I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 5: went away and then came back so unfortu that came
Speaker 5: back at around July. And while I no longer get feared,
Speaker 5: I can definitely tell when I am supposed to have
Speaker 5: periods because I get cystic at me when I have
Speaker 5: my period, So like I'm like, okay, this is when
Speaker 5: it is, so yeah, that's that's happening now, and that
Speaker 5: is when my my leg starts to feel very, very painful. Now.
Speaker 5: I had a lower back pain that went away after
Speaker 5: the surgery that hasn't returned, and I thought for the
Speaker 5: longest time, I'm like, I'm just a stupid runner. I've
Speaker 5: done something again, Like I need to go see a
Speaker 5: pars like I pulled my it band, I've pulled ligaments,
Speaker 5: I've done all of this, so I I thought it
Speaker 5: was just me being a stupid runner and I needed
Speaker 5: to warm up more. But actually they found an adhesion
Speaker 5: on my uteral sychreal ligament and that was the source
Speaker 5: of that is the suspected source of the lower back pain.
Speaker 5: So that's gone away. That's great, that's great. Some new
Speaker 5: pains have presented themselves and then some have come back,
Speaker 5: and the endometrious has unfortunately came back very very aggressively.
Speaker 5: So my next talk with my surgeon is in December,
Speaker 5: and we're going to have a plan that will involve
Speaker 5: surgery again an another one. But I mean that that
Speaker 5: just highlights how like you can do all the right things.
Speaker 5: You can eat well, exercise well, go get the surgery,
Speaker 5: and it can still just come back. Because it's just incredible.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, there was a study recently I read
Speaker 7: where they've discovered that newborns and even I possibly in
Speaker 7: utero babies have endometriosis, yes, and that it's not activated
Speaker 7: usually until they have their first period, if they're going
Speaker 7: to have a period, or they hit puberty, whichever, you know,
Speaker 7: is going to happen for them. And I can't imagine
Speaker 7: how many people have been in so much pain and
Speaker 7: they just thought, well, it's nothing. I you know, I
Speaker 7: pulled a muscle, or I had a kid, or I
Speaker 7: didn't you know, have kids, or you know, whatever excuse
Speaker 7: they kind of come up with, and they're inexcruciating pain,
Speaker 7: but yet also dismissed by the medical field because they
Speaker 7: don't fit the quote unquote right criteria for.
Speaker 5: It right, or the professionals the carotem that you have
Speaker 5: in your life has no clue what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they've actually they went to school, like your primary care provider,
Speaker 5: your GP, and they went to school and they like
Speaker 5: maybe have studied into demetriosis for like an hour or less.
Speaker 5: But I think there's only the last time I read
Speaker 5: the stat it was almost like less than one hundred
Speaker 5: endometriosis specialists in the entire United States and in the UK,
Speaker 5: And so there's a huge gap of information even in
Speaker 5: the medical community about what it is. Like there is
Speaker 5: a big knowledge gap, and like my dream would to
Speaker 5: be like set up some kind of center to where
Speaker 5: we don't have a huge knowledge gap, nor do we
Speaker 5: have like a just a tiny fraction of medical professionals
Speaker 5: that actually deal with this condition that can be by
Speaker 5: some estimates, it's it's as common as diabetes, So why
Speaker 5: don't we have we have more specialists. But I love that,
Speaker 5: And also, uh, I know that I've already educated like
Speaker 5: my mental mental health professionals about this, because there's also
Speaker 5: papers about how sexual assault and chromatic experiences. Sexual assault
Speaker 5: rape not only in childhood but later can affect endometriosis,
Speaker 5: make it worse. And I can tell you from my
Speaker 5: personal experience it has. And I was, you know, talking
Speaker 5: with my E. M. D R therapists and she was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: you've educated me a lot about about the subject and
Speaker 5: it all makes sense. But you know, after an event happens.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's that that book the Body keeps the Score,
Speaker 5: and that saying is so right. The body does, body does.
Speaker 5: And even my surgeon was very she said, look, everything
Speaker 5: that's happened to you, we keep our stress, we keep
Speaker 5: our trauma in our pelvic floor and it will present.
Speaker 5: So yeah, there's there's so much that needs I feel
Speaker 5: in the education. Yes, because you're right, it absolutely can
Speaker 5: be there from birth, and then there's other things that
Speaker 5: can trigger it.
Speaker 7: And it shouldn't be on us to have to educate
Speaker 7: our doctors or or our therapists, because that in itself
Speaker 7: can be triggering and if we're looking for help and
Speaker 7: then we still have to tell you, Okay, by the way,
Speaker 7: this is what it is. And you know that in
Speaker 7: and of itself just puts extra stress on us.
Speaker 5: It can lead to medical burnout. Yeah, I got medical burnout.
Speaker 5: We'll last month.
Speaker 7: But I can understand because it's exhausting. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 7: I've gotten to where I've been terrified to see a
Speaker 7: new pain management doctor because you know, the last ones
Speaker 7: I saw either said, oh, you don't have anything wrong
Speaker 7: because you know, your body isn't in a pretzel, but yeah,
Speaker 7: I know, and the other ones like, oh, she gave
Speaker 7: me a diagnosis and then wouldn't tell me if the
Speaker 7: symptoms I was having matched that diagnosis. So and then
Speaker 7: she kind of tried to go I know, I know.
Speaker 7: So it's like, I'm scared to see another pain management
Speaker 7: doctor and I've had to, like I had to cancel.
Speaker 7: And if I'm going through that, I can imagine that
Speaker 7: there's a lot more people that are very terrified because
Speaker 7: that is also trauma. Having to go through all of that,
Speaker 7: and then you've got trauma of the actual you know,
Speaker 7: pain and the procedures to just try and keep it
Speaker 7: under wrap some sort yeah, family not believing you. All
Speaker 7: of those traumas do become a part of us. And
Speaker 7: even which is why it's necessary, even if you don't
Speaker 7: feel like you need it, it's necessary to see a
Speaker 7: therapist because not only of course the right therapist, you know,
Speaker 7: they just rock, but it helps to recognize those you know,
Speaker 7: multitude of trauma you know moments, because you have to
Speaker 7: release them. And it's either you know, being human, we
Speaker 7: either release it negatively and end up causing trauma for
Speaker 7: somebody else, or we could do it the healthier way
Speaker 7: and you know, spok it not spock mouth will work.
Speaker 7: At some point, talk to you know, somebody so that
Speaker 7: you can get that help. Because you're you're right, the
Speaker 7: body does remember everything, everything, and even if you don't
Speaker 7: necessarily think you remember, the body.
Speaker 5: Does, Yes, it does, and you know, with the medical
Speaker 5: burnout and it can just exacerbate what the body remembers.
Speaker 5: And just then you're stuck in this loop like you're
Speaker 5: trying to get help. You're trying to get healthier. You're
Speaker 5: trying to feel better, and yet it comes back to
Speaker 5: how that impacts how all the multitude the multitude of
Speaker 5: stressors it will. It's undeniable, Like you can't just repress
Speaker 5: it and bury it.
Speaker 7: I mean, even having a kid, as wonderful as it
Speaker 7: can be if you want kids, that's still a huge
Speaker 7: stressor on our bodies.
Speaker 5: Oh for sure. For sure, Like not being able to
Speaker 5: get sleep, especially when they're babies, that's a format torture
Speaker 5: and something it is, so I mean, yeah, that's yeah,
Speaker 5: as wonderful as they are, it is absolutely stressful, and
Speaker 5: it's it's stressful in a situation, but you know, all
Speaker 5: in all different ways and many different types of situations.
Speaker 5: And I think the best way for me to navigate
Speaker 5: that with my kiddo is I let him know everything
Speaker 5: that's going on. He probably knows more about women's health
Speaker 5: than a lot of men in their forty and.
Speaker 7: That's good because you're raising him to.
Speaker 5: Be empathetic empathy. I tell him to like, I'm like,
Speaker 5: you're going to be a feminist here, and I said,
Speaker 5: I want you to ask questions. I want you to
Speaker 5: really know everything about this, and no questions off limits.
Speaker 5: I mean he's asked me. He's like, Mommy went Tampa.
Speaker 5: When you put in an hunt, does it hurt?
Speaker 2: Like just very.
Speaker 5: Curious like that. I was like, no, sweetie, Like, I
Speaker 5: mean it can for some people, but for me now.
Speaker 5: And but he knows a lot. And I'll take him
Speaker 5: to the doctor's appointments with me and like if you
Speaker 5: have any questions, to ask my doctor too. And and
Speaker 5: you know, children are can be great healers that way,
Speaker 5: rude and within that has been especially over this past year.
Speaker 5: I mean, he's like, I don't want him to feel
Speaker 5: an obligation to be my caretaker, but I want him
Speaker 5: to be educated enough so that you know, he's empowered
Speaker 5: not'll help.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I'm glad that you say that, because my
Speaker 7: kids are so sick of me telling them everything. They're like,
Speaker 7: oh god, mom's going to talk again. To be fair, there,
Speaker 7: they are teenagers, so they're at that moment of they're
Speaker 7: at that moment where it's like, oh God, yes we
Speaker 7: know mom, Okay, Mom, sure whatever. But I tried very
Speaker 7: hard to if they had a question, I was going
Speaker 7: to answer them truthfully. I wasn't gonna sugar sugarcoated. I
Speaker 7: wasn't gonna, you know, change the wording so that it was,
Speaker 7: you know, baby sounding.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's so critical. Yeah, like it's it's so critical,
Speaker 5: no baby sounding, like calling body parts by their actual
Speaker 5: real names. Yes, yea so critical and they're not dirty words,
Speaker 5: Like no, I don't. I don't like how, you know.
Speaker 5: I feel like it's twenty twenty five, we should be
Speaker 5: beyond this. But like he even will tell me, like
Speaker 5: he'll be at school and they say, like, vagina's a
Speaker 5: dirty words, like no, it's not.
Speaker 7: No, it's a body.
Speaker 5: Part, body part of the name for a body part,
Speaker 5: so you can.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's no worse than an arm.
Speaker 1: Right, I'll admit. As a kid, growing up, I did
Speaker 1: not learn much about women in any way. I didn't
Speaker 1: know much about it. So having that Dory and having
Speaker 1: a daughter kind of changed everything I knew. So I've
Speaker 1: seen or heard more than I ever knew as a kid,
Speaker 1: and I kind of wish I had known more to
Speaker 1: help kind of prepare myself. But yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 7: It is a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm not a female, no offense I'm taking.
Speaker 5: I think I wouldn't wish you No, I wouldn't wish
Speaker 5: that on anybody either.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of things that we go through that
Speaker 7: I think we should be celebrated way more for the
Speaker 7: fact that we can do those things. And it's not
Speaker 7: because you know, I'm being you know, ridiculous or silly
Speaker 7: or anything like that. It's we do all lot of
Speaker 7: fucking shit with our bodies that men do not rightly.
Speaker 1: That's why I don't want to be a female. I
Speaker 1: don't want to go through that.
Speaker 7: Yes, thank you, but it is important for everybody, all sexes,
Speaker 7: to understand what all of the different things that normal
Speaker 7: happen and that are abnormal, because all they like for
Speaker 7: me when I was growing up, they said, well, you're
Speaker 7: going to grow hair, and you're going to get a period,
Speaker 7: and you're going to grow boobs, and that was pretty
Speaker 7: much it.
Speaker 5: That's so superficial.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 5: I see the ways that they teach it in different countries,
Speaker 5: Like I took my son to the Science Museum in
Speaker 5: London and want in Amsterdam, and they talk about the
Speaker 5: body and they have exhibits for it, and they have
Speaker 5: like really great and they talk about gender and they
Speaker 5: talk about sexuality and a really age appropriate manner. And
Speaker 5: this is just like normal everyday stuff for the general
Speaker 5: population in these countries. And one of the ones that
Speaker 5: my son really loved was the one on puberty, and
Speaker 5: it talked about it and in how it's different phases.
Speaker 5: It's not just like you wake up one day and
Speaker 5: then your voice is really deep if you're a dude,
Speaker 5: or like right, so, and he was fascinated by it.
Speaker 5: He just watched the video over and over again. He's like, Oh,
Speaker 5: this is really this is going to happen to me.
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, it's going to happen to me.
Speaker 5: And he's like, that's that's crazy. That's also like wild
Speaker 5: and like like he was excited about it to learn
Speaker 5: about it. I wish we had things like that.
Speaker 7: Yes, I wish we weren't so puritan puritanical about it
Speaker 7: because I think we miss out on so much beauty
Speaker 7: by forcing everybody to be in the dark about everything
Speaker 7: that has to do with our bodies. It's not saying,
Speaker 7: you know, wag your boobs every which way, but loose.
Speaker 7: If that's your thing, that's your thing. But and you know,
Speaker 7: not to say that you have to be a newdict.
Speaker 7: You don't have to. But we got to stop treating
Speaker 7: especially a fed body parts as these dirty, nasty little
Speaker 7: words and you know, disgusting and because number one, they're
Speaker 7: just body parts. Yeah, they're different than maybe what some
Speaker 7: people have. Cool, that's what makes it cool. And we
Speaker 7: need to learn about them because so many people sit
Speaker 7: around thinking there's something wrong with them because it doesn't
Speaker 7: look or doesn't you know, work the same way as
Speaker 7: everyone else. Is that they've heard about, right, and that
Speaker 7: causes so much pain that could be mitigated if they understood, no,
Speaker 7: it's normal for you and there's nothing wrong with that, absolutely,
Speaker 7: because you know, just like I didn't know until probably
Speaker 7: the last twenty years, that boobs come in different shapes
Speaker 7: and sizes and that if they're not like, you know,
Speaker 7: super perky, that's normal. And you know, yeah, it's also
Speaker 7: not normal to fling them over your shoulder either. But
Speaker 7: there's those differences though, that aren't taught. So you think,
Speaker 7: oh my god, my body's ugly. And if we had
Speaker 7: a more open dialogue about how bodies differ and you know,
Speaker 7: these are breasts, this is a vagina, just like an arm,
Speaker 7: these are fingers, or you know, this is a penis,
Speaker 7: these are his testicles, all of that would make a
Speaker 7: huge difference and instead of going they said penis or
Speaker 7: you know, things like that.
Speaker 5: That's really right, right, it should just be yeah, to
Speaker 5: help get away from that. That shame. That's it.
Speaker 7: That is what it is. It's it's a horrible.
Speaker 5: Shame because if people learn that while they're children. I
Speaker 5: feel like I actually do think that I'll have to
Speaker 5: look it up again, but I do think that there
Speaker 5: was studies about like teaching about these differences and teaching
Speaker 5: about you know, the queer community when you're young. It
Speaker 5: makes scure, like with certainty that you have more empathetic
Speaker 5: understanding adults. But so like of that that education, So
Speaker 5: it's just it's a win win, like, I mean, there's
Speaker 5: lots of reasons why we're doing it. In the particular timeline.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it makes sense in this particular timeline why we
Speaker 7: don't Not that I like it one hundred percent, don't
Speaker 7: agree with it, but I understand what they're doing. But
Speaker 7: in every other timeline, though, we should be embracing that
Speaker 7: and we should be pushing that, because that's how we
Speaker 7: end up not only being more informed, but we would
Speaker 7: understand that, you know, Okay, these pains that I'm feeling
Speaker 7: in my lower back or in my thighs or whatever
Speaker 7: it is that you feel there's you can then know
Speaker 7: that that's not okay and that's not normal and that
Speaker 7: you should get it checked. Because we are so ill
Speaker 7: body parts, we don't understand when something is wrong because
Speaker 7: we're shamed into thinking, well, it's, you know, my chest,
Speaker 7: and as a female, I'm not allowed to show my
Speaker 7: chest and I can't speak about my chest because you know,
Speaker 7: people are going to think I'm saying, you know, look
Speaker 7: my breasts. That type of illogical thinking happens not necessarily,
Speaker 7: you know, explicitly like that, but just it kind of
Speaker 7: hits in the back of your head and it shames you,
Speaker 7: so you don't say anything when you should.
Speaker 5: Or that period blood is disgusting and shouldn't be shown
Speaker 5: like they were using the blue freaking dye and like
Speaker 5: period blood. That's why I love a big music famm
Speaker 5: This is a big part of my life. So Princess
Speaker 5: Nokia on her latest album, she's sitting there and she's
Speaker 5: like in her underwear and it shows the her period
Speaker 5: blood and that's on the album Tether, and I'm like,
Speaker 5: that's fucking great. Yeah, right's normalize it, make it normative.
Speaker 7: Yes, and I admit it's hard for me to see
Speaker 7: that because I was taught you know, ir gross, But
Speaker 7: I love seeing it at the same time because it
Speaker 7: shouldn't be egross. It happens, just like you know, we
Speaker 7: go to the bathroom.
Speaker 5: Shit happens.
Speaker 7: And you know, people love to have jokes about, you know,
Speaker 7: their diarrhea or their constipation. Why can't we have jokes
Speaker 7: about period blood.
Speaker 5: Probably because it's associated with women.
Speaker 7: Yes, I'm sure that is why, and which is just
Speaker 7: so annoying misogyny. Yes, and I don't care what people say,
Speaker 7: you know, if they're misogynists, you can fuck off. It
Speaker 7: ain't gonna work.
Speaker 5: I am.
Speaker 7: I am never going to let any woman be talked
Speaker 7: down to like that.
Speaker 1: Can I change gears real quick? When did you it's
Speaker 1: two parts. When did you come out as queer? And
Speaker 1: how was that accepted with like your family and friends?
Speaker 1: Did you have any problems?
Speaker 5: Uh? No, it's very anti climactic storia. So I didn't
Speaker 5: the language to really express how I felt how I
Speaker 5: love until really recently, and so this must have been
Speaker 5: about It was twenty nineteen and I saw the word
Speaker 5: pan sexual, I'm like, whoa wait a minute, what is this?
Speaker 5: And I started reading up on this, I was like,
Speaker 5: this is me. Bisexual never felt right for me because
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, I don't really look at people
Speaker 5: that way. It's not an attraction to a certain gender,
Speaker 5: it's an attraction to everybody. Like but you know, growing
Speaker 5: up in the South, there's no like act queer literature
Speaker 5: or language like that. So having having seen it, and
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, yeah, that's me. So I'm all
Speaker 5: excited and I'm like telling my friends and I'm like,
Speaker 5: we already knew this about you. I was the last
Speaker 5: one to be able to express this, and so yeah,
Speaker 5: very anti climactic, very well, we accepted, I guess you
Speaker 5: could put it that way. They're like, yeah, we already knew.
Speaker 5: And I'm glad that my parents and friends, everybody was
Speaker 5: not one issue.
Speaker 1: Good good, Yeah.
Speaker 5: And it is.
Speaker 7: You know what's funny about that is even though we
Speaker 7: were forced to read heteronormative books as kids, and you know,
Speaker 7: teachers talk about their significant other being of the opposite
Speaker 7: gender and all of that stuff, and yet there's still
Speaker 7: those of us who come out queer or gay or
Speaker 7: bisexual and all that stuff. And so the whole Banning
Speaker 7: books of LGBTQ really does not make any damn sense.
Speaker 5: It doesn't make any sense or any difference. Like kids, no,
Speaker 5: pretty early.
Speaker 7: Yes, they know very early when there's when they're different
Speaker 7: like that, And sometimes it may take you a while
Speaker 7: to realize that, because it took me forever to oh, yeah,
Speaker 7: uh kind of thing when I figured it out. But
Speaker 7: those books don't change us. They don't make us all
Speaker 7: of a sudden street.
Speaker 1: Just like video games don't make people in the murderers.
Speaker 7: No, they don't.
Speaker 5: If they don't make up they want to go like
Speaker 5: go to brunch and gave you know, drag brunches. Right,
Speaker 5: read book like that's just fun to do.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, reading about drag queens didn't suddenly make me go, oh,
Speaker 7: I know, I'm going to dress my sons up as
Speaker 7: drag queens or I'm going to be a drag queen.
Speaker 7: There's nothing wrong with being a drag queen at all,
Speaker 7: and but I'm not going to force my kids into
Speaker 7: it if that's not who they are, just like we
Speaker 7: shouldn't force our kids into a heteronormative situation if that's
Speaker 7: not who they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, we need to we need to start
Speaker 1: wrapping it up.
Speaker 7: I'm having so much fun talking about.
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate that we have to Sorry, okay, I'm always
Speaker 1: a bearer of bad news.
Speaker 4: It's okay.
Speaker 7: So can you tell us how to find you and please,
Speaker 7: you know, hype whatever you want up and you know,
Speaker 7: shout it out to the rooftops or you know whatever tops,
Speaker 7: bra tops could be.
Speaker 5: So my Instagram is a Warrior nine thirteen, so that's
Speaker 5: by for the fibrides and then amiosis and endometriosis, and
Speaker 5: then nine thirteen was the date of my surgery. It
Speaker 5: was a Friday at thirteen awes. Yeah, yeah, and so
Speaker 5: it's been a year over a year since that surgery.
Speaker 5: But that's how you find me on Instagram, and I
Speaker 5: also have a link there for the money that i'm
Speaker 5: raising for since the UK. They're just such an amazing
Speaker 5: organization that I wish we had something like this in
Speaker 5: the US. They recognize that they do help a lot
Speaker 5: of children, of course with disabilities, but they recognize that
Speaker 5: you can become disabled at any point of your life.
Speaker 5: It's not just childhood disabilities. So I love the work
Speaker 5: that they're doing, so I would also hype them up
Speaker 5: and check them out. And yeah, so I do have
Speaker 5: a link in my bio and on my Instagram for
Speaker 5: that purpose. And that all the money that I raise
Speaker 5: for them while i'm you know, raising it to do
Speaker 5: the London Marathon in twenty twenty six, that all goes
Speaker 5: to them.
Speaker 7: Awesome, and thank you so much because we need more
Speaker 7: people like you, honestly just being you.
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for joining us talking to
Speaker 1: us today.
Speaker 5: Right, Thank you too, Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Other End podcast by
Speaker 2: Mike and Dori. Please like and follow us on all
Speaker 2: of your favorite social media.
Speaker 1: The Othering Podcast is produced by loud Core Productions, graphics
Speaker 1: by Josh and music by Jeordie James, me Me Meir