Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
not intended for all audiences.
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3: Yes, is there did anybody retort a house on Fower
and powers away?
Speaker 4: They did, They're on their way.
Speaker 5: Okay, do you know if anyone got out, everyone got
out or.
Speaker 6: You don't know.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 8: It's episode. Are you picturing a battalion of three hundred
Greece stuff Roman warriors and loincloths violently charging the Persian
armies frontline swords erect? It's just me sorry to disappoint.
That was gayer than true crime obsessed and no, Karen,
that's not a slur, it's literal. Jesus PC culture has
to die already anyway. Welcome to the meaningless call out
of a number that doesn't really matter and affects nothing
at all. This is our three hundredth episode of Sort
in Scale. I still don't know why you people listen
to tragedy for entertainment, but here we are enjoy. About
seventy five miles south of Cleveland, Ohio, one of my
favorite places, near the eastern edge of place called Youngstown,
lies a quiet residential street called Power's Way on most days,
this street is as ordinaries any suburban road. Lawns are mode,
families are gathering for backyard barbecues, and kids are zipping
up and down the street on their bikes. It's a
typical middle class American neighborhood, picturesque, something out of the
Hallmark Channel, a peaceful place where crime rarely makes an appearance.
But in the early hours of March thirtieth, twenty fifteen,
at around three point thirty am, to be precise, something
jolted the entire neighborhood awake. It shattered the usual calm,
and this something thing was far from typical. This something
was criminal.
Speaker 9: Ytown one, Oh, I live on miles away.
Speaker 4: One of the house is two houses down, blue off.
Speaker 6: I don't know if anybody outside.
Speaker 5: I'm right by it right now. I don't I don't
know if I outside.
Speaker 10: Okay, we'll send them out. Okay, So, but somebody does live.
Speaker 5: There, Yeah, somebody doesn't live there, Okay, I got the people.
Speaker 4: Were right next door out of the house, all right, we'll.
Speaker 10: Send them out.
Speaker 8: A massive explosion ripped through the night, shaking the entire neighborhood.
Residents of Powers Way sprang up from their beds, quickly
realizing that a nearby two story house was engulfed in flames.
Speaker 10: Nextown is on one.
Speaker 9: There's a fire on powers of the right house.
Speaker 11: Point piece.
Speaker 12: The house is going a real good.
Speaker 10: He occupying structures.
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's the houses burners.
Speaker 10: Okay, you out, ma'm am across the street or every
where you're running. Okay, get over there.
Speaker 6: It's right here, right on, right here.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we got that.
Speaker 10: Okay, block Okay.
Speaker 8: The fire raged out of control, and onlookers quickly understood
the grim reality if anyone was still inside, I mean,
their chances of survival were next to none.
Speaker 6: Down no one.
Speaker 9: Yes, we have an explorision over here.
Speaker 10: Yeah, we got fire trucks on the way. Do you
know if anybody's still in the house.
Speaker 9: Oh my god, hello, pardon, I don't know.
Speaker 10: You don't know. Okay, we have fire trucks on the way. Okay.
Speaker 6: Did you see anybody leaving the area?
Speaker 12: All right?
Speaker 9: This place?
Speaker 10: Oh my god, Okay, the trucks are on the way.
Did you see anybody in leaving the area?
Speaker 5: No, I just go out work and see anybody.
Speaker 8: Phone calls flooded the nine to one one dispatch center,
and it wasn't long before dispatchers learned a troubling detail
about the two homeowners. They both had a disability.
Speaker 9: And then when one would be your emergency, my neighbor's
house is on fire and their death the pardoning.
Speaker 13: The neighbors have his own fire and what and they're.
Speaker 9: Dead and they're death, Yes.
Speaker 14: Okay, they're on their way.
Speaker 13: Are they home home?
Speaker 15: I don't know.
Speaker 10: Nobody's outside, but it's a big fire and there's an explosion,
I mean our windows explosion.
Speaker 9: On our house.
Speaker 8: The homeowners were death, and for the neighbors who knew
them well, what they were witnessing was both unimaginable and heartbreaking.
Speaker 13: Oh my god.
Speaker 10: Starting they go through fright, did the fire are on
the way?
Speaker 9: Do you know if the people got out of the house.
Speaker 10: I don't know if they were over they're both dead.
Speaker 9: Go through freight case the structurally.
Speaker 10: Did you see anybody leaving the area?
Speaker 16: I see, I see him corner.
Speaker 10: Okay, there's the fire trucks and the ambulances are on
the way. Okay.
Speaker 8: When firefighters arrived on scene, they immediately began fighting the flames.
Soon after, several police officers arrived as well and began
working to identify the homeowners. They did this by running
the license plates on the cars parked in the driveway.
Speaker 10: All the rules are coming back to William E.
Speaker 6: Schmidt.
Speaker 7: William E.
Speaker 10: Schmidt three six three one powers away.
Speaker 8: The police confirmed that the home belonged to sixty three
year old Bill Schmidt and his wife, sixty year old
Judy Schmidt. The couple married in nineteen seventy four, the
year of my birth got them old, and by all accounts,
it was a loving marriage. Bill and Judy were the
perfect match and nobody ever doubted that they would be
together forever. Despite being deaf, both Bill and Judy led
full in active lives. Bill was an outdoorsman who spent
time hunting and fishing. He also enjoyed road trips on
his Harley Davidson and was known locally as the grill Master.
That's a cool title. When Bill fired up his barbecue pit,
anyone lucky enough to be in the vicinity knew that
they were about to enjoy one hell of a meal.
As for Judy, she was a typical quilt maker who
loved board games. She was especially social and had a
wide circle of friends. Known for her warmth, Judy had
a maternal touch that led many friends young and old
to think of her as a second mom. With the
homeowners identified, police ran a background check on an address,
looking for any recent reports of incidents at the property,
and as it turned out, there had been a few.
Speaker 9: If we have any uh we do.
Speaker 10: The last call is in February and it was a
thirty one year old daughter that was missing since September,
and then before that the next closed in September of
twenty fourteen. It's about the daughter menacing her parents.
Speaker 6: About the daughter, guarantee you.
Speaker 8: Bill and Judy had three adult children, two of whom
were also deaf. What are the chances their third child,
thirty one year old Lynn Schmidt, was not Police reports
indicated that there had been ongoing issues with Lynn. Allegedly
she hit, harassed her parents, and then a few months
later she disappeared, prompting Bill and Judy to report her missing.
As police gathered all this info, firefighters pressed on working
to fully extinguish the blaze. As they made their way
through the charred home, they uncovered something that brought an
Ohio prosecutor into the investigation.
Speaker 9: So my name is John Cantalomesa. In twenty fifteen. I
was a Chief Trial Council for the Mahoning County Prosecutor's Office.
On Monday, March thirty of twenty fifteen, at approximately three
thirty six am, the Youngstown nine one one senter received
a call for a residential fire at three sixty three
one Powers Way in the city of Youngstown in Ohio.
Speaker 15: The Youngstown Fire Department.
Speaker 9: While attempting to extinguish the fire to discover the bodies
of two adults in the house.
Speaker 8: Inside the home, firefighters discovered the bodies of Bill and
Judy Schmidt. The couple was found dead in their bedroom.
Right away, firefighters suspected foul play. It was clear this
fire was no accident. Bill and Judy were victims of arson, so.
Speaker 9: It didn't take long for the Youngstown Fire Department to
determined was arson fire. They're pretty excute a determining whether
something's accidental or arson, and in this piece, all the
firefighters described as smelling the scent of gasoline upon entering
the fire, and they knew right away that this was
an arson.
Speaker 8: The firefighters smelled the unmistakable scent of gasoline, then they
spotted the two gas cans tucked just out of sight
near the back of the house. One had a plastic
glove jammed into its neck. Whoever did this had soaked
the inside of the house, drenching the walls and floors
with gas while Bill and Judy lay sleeping.
Speaker 2: What a monster.
Speaker 8: Then after flicking a flame, the killer fled, leaving behind
burning destruction and death. Later that morning, the arson investigation
led detectives to a nearby Walgreens. Strangely, one of their
leads involved the purchase of some makeup.
Speaker 4: And where do you work at Walgreens?
Speaker 14: In which store? The store? And at one time was
that store at twenty four hour store? Yes, I'm going.
Speaker 17: To ask you about a gentleman that came in to
buy some makeup.
Speaker 14: Can you tell me about this?
Speaker 12: What was early in the morning, and it was just
me and Michael because we were the overnight.
Speaker 18: Shift, and he told me that a guy needed some
helping on some makeup over in asle one.
Speaker 12: So I walk over there and he would He told
me that he had a jury thing to go to
this morning, and that night he took out his trash
and something exploded in.
Speaker 18: His trash, which is why his face was all burned.
So he wanted some stuff to kind of cover it
up because he didn't want to look like a freak
to the other jury is what he said.
Speaker 12: After we picked out like the foundation, he wanted something
for his eyebrows because they had burned off, so.
Speaker 18: He wanted to know if there was like an eyebrow pencil.
Speaker 8: This Walgreens employee recalled a man who had come into
her store that morning asking about makeup. Something about him
seemed m off. He was dressed in a suit, but
he wore a baseball cap pulled low over his face.
A strange combination, maybe something you would see on Sports Center,
but not a typical ense, you know, especially at Walgreens.
The man nervously explained that he had jury duty in
a few hours he needed makeup to cover up the
bright red flashburns on his face. He also asked for
eyebrow pencils, as his own eyebrows had been burned clean off. Yes,
I know this story sounds familiar, but believe it or not,
it's not the same story we told a few weeks ago.
Apparently there's a lot of idiots out there starting fires. Anyway,
This idiot's story was that he had some garbage that
blew up in his face.
Speaker 18: So his trash explained, that's what he said.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 14: Did he say where this trash was?
Speaker 18: He said at his house.
Speaker 14: Okay, So you see this guy, what does he look like?
Speaker 18: Well, he's not much taller than me. He's probably about
maybe four inches hoaller than I am, maybe like five
eight five nine. Okay, he's pretty asky bold.
Speaker 14: Was he a white guy, black guy? His panic mill white?
Speaker 18: Yeah?
Speaker 14: How old would you say he was?
Speaker 18: I'd probably say maybe thirty eight to forty.
Speaker 14: Do you remember what makeup that he bought?
Speaker 18: Yeah, he bought.
Speaker 12: I talked him into a maybe leat bebe cream because
that's what I use, Okay, And then he.
Speaker 18: Bought mable even brow pencils. I know those two for sure.
Speaker 8: Early in the investigation, detectives found themselves with two solid leads,
the strange man buying makeup at Walgreens and the mysterious
absence of Bill and Judy's daughter Lynn Schmidt. But as
the case unfolded, they would discover everything, every motive, and
every twisted, sordid, disgusting detail centered around an unlikely person,
a ten year old named Corn Gump. On the morning
of March thirtieth, twenty fifteen, seen a Youngstown, Ohio home
exploded into a raging inferno. Firefighters successfully extinguished the flames
and found that the homeowners, sixty three year old Bill
Schmidt and his wife, sixty year old Judy Schmidt, were dead.
The married couple had been murdered. They were victims of arson.
This double homicide sent detectives on a long, winding road.
Eventually that path led them to a ten year old girl.
Her name was corn Gump.
Speaker 7: So can you give me your name?
Speaker 6: Kearn?
Speaker 7: Okay?
Speaker 18: What's your last name?
Speaker 7: Gump? When is your birthday?
Speaker 19: January thirty first?
Speaker 6: First?
Speaker 9: Okay?
Speaker 19: And how are you nine years old?
Speaker 6: Nine? Okay?
Speaker 7: So which pools do you go to? South Range? So
Frage would read you in third?
Speaker 18: Third grade?
Speaker 6: You like third grade?
Speaker 7: What's your favorite subject?
Speaker 6: We're reading?
Speaker 20: Reading?
Speaker 18: Can read it all?
Speaker 19: Sometimes?
Speaker 7: You what kind of books you read?
Speaker 19: Dad, kid, princess books, animal books.
Speaker 8: At the time of this interview, Couren was living with
her grandparents, but for much of her life she had
lived with her mom, her younger half sister, and her
mom's boyfriend.
Speaker 7: Okay, who did you use to live before.
Speaker 19: My mom? Eva me? And then my mom was played?
Speaker 7: Okay, what's his name, Junior Junior? Is that his real
name or does he have a different name?
Speaker 19: Well, his real name is Robert Robert.
Speaker 7: Okay, do you know do you know how old you
were when you moved into his house?
Speaker 19: Maybe four or five?
Speaker 7: Okay, guess when you moved in Okay.
Speaker 8: Coran's mom's boyfriend was forty six year old Robert Andrew
Seaman Junior. He was mostly known by the nickname Junior,
Robert or Bob or Junior, whatever you want to call.
This guy earned a study and more than decent income
by working on an assembly line at General Motors.
Speaker 9: Robert Saman was working at a factory, a local factory
we believe it the GM at the time, and he
was living in Canfield with his girlfriend, his biological daughter,
and then his girlfriends a daughter from a previous marriage.
Speaker 8: Robert's girlfriend's daughter was Coryn Gump, the ten year old,
and according to Korin, Robert didn't keep his hands or
penis to himself. Fair warning, We're about to get into
some pretty graphic stuff involving children and sexual assault. And
I know that a lot of you subscribe to true
crime podcasts and for some reason can't hear that kind
of stuff, Well, you might want to turn it off
and go listen to some crime junkie instead. If you
can't stomach this sort of thing, then Sword and Scale
may not be for you.
Speaker 14: Anyway.
Speaker 8: That's enough warning, because we already have the trigger warning
labels on every episode and all that, so you need
more than that. I don't know what to tell you.
Here we go.
Speaker 7: What is it that happened with Junior?
Speaker 19: He made me?
Speaker 9: All right?
Speaker 7: So when you said that the junior touched that Junior
raped you, what do you mean by that? What did
he do?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 19: He made me stuck his bribe bit okay, and he
did it.
Speaker 6: To me Okay?
Speaker 7: When he when he made you suck his private Where
did this happen.
Speaker 19: At in the living room, in the bedroom, their bedroom
or upstairs in my room?
Speaker 7: Okay?
Speaker 14: Do you remember?
Speaker 7: What do you use?
Speaker 4: Just started at.
Speaker 7: Four?
Speaker 19: Five five?
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 8: In March of twenty fourteen, when Corinne was just nine
years old, she sat in the police interview room. She
used crayons to color on paper. She described how her
mom's boyfriend, Robert Seaman Jr. Repeatedly sexually assaulted her for years.
Speaker 7: Did he so he did put his penis in your mouth?
Speaker 19: M h okay?
Speaker 7: And what what would happen?
Speaker 19: He would try to pee in my mouth?
Speaker 7: Okay? Did he pee in your mouth one time?
Speaker 6: One time?
Speaker 4: And what did he say?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 19: To swallow it, but of course I did not. Did
you do sweat to spit it out?
Speaker 7: Do he know you spit it out?
Speaker 19: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: What did he say?
Speaker 19: He said you were supposed to swallow and not spit
it out?
Speaker 7: How many times would you say this happened between you
don't know what you say?
Speaker 19: Times?
Speaker 7: A lot of times, so more than one time?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 8: Robert Seaman was a monster who forced his girlfriend's daughter
to give him oral sex. Yes, I know it's actually rape,
but we have to describe things so the audience understands
what we're saying. According to Koren, this happened countless times,
and throughout the years things only escalated. To say the least,
what Robert did to Koren was depraved, evil and disgusting.
But you shouldn't need a podcaster to tell you that.
Speaker 19: Would climb on top mm hmm okay and kiss me?
Speaker 9: Okay?
Speaker 7: Where would he kiss you at lips?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 7: Would he ask you to pull your pants?
Speaker 6: Down.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and then what would he say.
Speaker 18: Or what would he do next?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 19: Could us that it?
Speaker 7: Okay? Would you say anything to do you when he
was doing that?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 7: Do you ever touch you on your boobs? Yes? Yeah,
we're on top of your clothing and read your clothes
and dumblings different?
Speaker 9: Okay?
Speaker 7: Did he ever did he ever put his penis on
your lulu?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 7: Yes? Were your clothes on or off or something different? Off?
And what did he do to it?
Speaker 19: Like push me back into it onto him?
Speaker 7: Did he put his ps in your bis?
Speaker 2: One time?
Speaker 8: Koran claimed that between the ages of four and nine,
Robert Siemen had repeatedly sexually assaulted her. Anyway, As it
is often the case in these situations, there was no
evidence to confirm or back up these accusations against Robert.
Even so, the detectives and prosecutors believed Koran. They actually
usually do. And it's a rare instance where women aren't believed.
But you know, tell yourselves whatever you'll want. I tend
to believe a rape victim unless they've lied over and
over and over again in the past, and so should you. Anyway,
I believe her. Judge for yourself.
Speaker 15: Well, obviously, She's nine at the time, there was no other.
Speaker 9: Evidence other than her statement, but her description of the
assaults and every time.
Speaker 15: That something would happen was very compelling.
Speaker 9: You know, she had details that a nine year old
shouldn't know.
Speaker 8: After Coorin disclosed and described the years of abuse that
she endured, Robert Seaman was arrested and charged with multiple felonies,
which included the sexual assault of a minor, one of
the worst possible crimes you can commit, definitely in the
top three. At his arraignment, Robert pled not guilty.
Speaker 9: He was given a very high bond in comparison to
a lot of cases, two hundred and fifty thousand cash
or surety, meaning.
Speaker 15: He either to post two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 9: In cash or get a surety like a bondsman to
come in and vouch for him and saying they would
post if he ran.
Speaker 8: Within days of the arraignment, prosecutors were shocked to find
out that Robert had managed to post bond somehow. What
is it with these judges anyway, this predator was now
free to harm other children, but at least he was
given strict conditions, you know, because I'm sure, he'll pay
attention to those since he follows the law and stuff.
Speaker 9: As a condition of that bond, he was to be
placed on an ankle monitor that was GPS enabled, and
that he was told he was on house arrest, he
couldn't have any contact with a victim or her family.
Speaker 8: Unsurprisingly, Robert violated his bond conditions soon after his release
by having contact with Korn's mom. What was unexpected was
that Robert hadn't initiated this contact. Karin's mother had reached
out to him. And here is a critical detail. Oren's
mom was Lynn Schmidt, remember her, the non death child
of Bill and Judy Schmidt.
Speaker 11: So, like the last time I spoke with you, you
hadn't had any contact with Robert. But we had some
concerns from what we had heard that he believed you
were going to recant, and that was that was why
we came to talk to you, just to find out
if there was any basis for that and what your
intentions were in terms of in terms of the criminal
case against Robert.
Speaker 8: During the course of their investigation, the detectives working to
put Robert behind bars came across something deeply unsettling. They
discovered that Lynn might actually testify on Robert's behalf. It
appeared she was prepared to take the stand and claim
her daughter had lied about the sexual assault.
Speaker 11: Did he contact you from there?
Speaker 20: Then?
Speaker 8: Now?
Speaker 7: I asserved him because.
Speaker 15: I knew, right, So how how often did you.
Speaker 2: See him there?
Speaker 7: I found? I mean I've been there.
Speaker 14: I mean, I don't know how many.
Speaker 15: Times would've been in there. I just know, you know
when why join why are you going?
Speaker 9: Because I want him to think that you know nobody
like nobody else.
Speaker 7: I mean, I know other.
Speaker 11: People know you know what I mean, But I just
want you want him to trust you.
Speaker 8: When detectives questioned Lynn about her ongoing contact with Robert,
her answers were evasive. She claims she was scared of Robert,
fearing he might retaliate against her, her parents, or even
core In, and that's staying in touch with him was
her way of keeping him in line. Sure, Lynn, Sure, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 11: I'm concerned about your parents house too, because of their
their their hard of hearing, right, their lack of hearing.
I don't necessarily believe that he has the news and
even the stomach or the will to to actually do that.
And I you know I want to believe, I obviously
that you're afraid of it. I feel that he knows
full well how to make you this afraid and how
to make you do his wishes in order to get
out of his current predicament. As she's advising you, you
need to remove yourself from being anywhere near him or
having any contact with him.
Speaker 8: Despite the warnings to keep away, Lynn ignored this advice. Instead,
she went further. She moved back into Robert's house, bringing
along get this, her younger daughter Ava. It was only
four at the time. It appeared that Lynn had turned
her back on her daughter core In in favor of
the attention and affection that she was getting from Karen's rapist.
Speaker 9: We don't know why Karen's mom went back to Robert
Semen after the rape allegations came.
Speaker 6: Out in March of twenty fourteen.
Speaker 15: She was never able to give us a.
Speaker 9: Straight answer as why she went back with Robert.
Speaker 15: She her and she took her youngest who was also
the biological child of Robert Semen.
Speaker 9: Ave back to the house and lived with him.
Speaker 8: It's weird. All these smart people don't know why she
went back, but I do.
Speaker 10: I do.
Speaker 8: It's dick say it with me. Dick Lynn was now
living with Robert, while her daughter Karen had moved in
with her grandparents because Robert kept raping her and her
grandparents were the murder victims Bill and Judy Schmidt. For
a while, everything seemed calm, but then, on the eve
of Roberts trial for sexual assault, guess what happens? You
want to guess, I'll give you a couple of minutes. Okay, Okay,
here we.
Speaker 5: Go, Youngtown nine on what is your emergency?
Speaker 15: Yes?
Speaker 9: There?
Speaker 10: Did anybody record a house on fire and powers away?
Speaker 5: They did? Man, and they're on their way.
Speaker 12: Okay, okay, thank you.
Speaker 4: Okay did you know?
Speaker 5: Did you know if anyone got out, everyone got out
or you don't know? I don't know here, okay, all right,
we're getting them down there, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 20: By three am, Monday, March thirtieth, an explosion and fire
at thirty six thirty one Powers Way.
Speaker 1: Fire broke out from the bottom of the basement just hush.
Speaker 8: Just hours before Robert's trial was set to begin, Bill
and Judy's house exploded and the subsequent flames engulfed their home,
killing them.
Speaker 9: The fireman and the fire. Marshall's investigators why that would be,
Why would they hear an explosion? And they said, from
our evidence, we know he went in with those gas
cans and went to the landing of the basement stairs,
and we believe he poured the gas over the.
Speaker 15: Side of the stairs down into the landing.
Speaker 9: He then must have taken those two gas cans back
outside and set them alongside the door, figuring he'll grab
him on the way to his car, and he goes
back in with the lighter. And when he goes back
in and even just flicks that lighter because that gas,
all those fumes had been building up. Now while he
poured the gas. The investigators and the forensic scientists that
we talked to tuck, what just him flicking that lighter
can ignite still those fumes in the air, and that's
why he hit that flash fern on his face, and
they hear is.
Speaker 15: Essentially an explosion from the fire.
Speaker 9: Now it also might have exploded like bigger ones that
hits like the house's gas line.
Speaker 8: The explosion and fire claimed the lives of Bill and
Judy Schmidt, but tragically they weren't the only victims.
Speaker 20: Within a few hours, we know the three people in
the house, ten year old Karn Gump and her grandparents,
Bill and Judy Schmidt, had died in the fire.
Speaker 8: And saw them carry maybe ill. Bill and Judy were
not the intended targets of this arson attack, Mark Breakingley,
They were simply collateral damage. Robert's true aim was to
silence his young victim, and he succeeded. When firefighters sifted
through the ash and rubble, they found the bodies of Bill, Judy,
and a small girl. Ten year old Corn Gump was dead.
On March thirtieth, twenty fifteen, an arson fire claimed the
lives of three people in Youngstown, Ohio, ten year old
Koran Gump and her grandparents, Bill and Judy Schmidt before
the flames even had time to fully die out. Some
of Korn's family members had their suspicions about who was
responsible for this horrific crime.
Speaker 1: Karin's grandma on her dad's side, thinks this fire was
no mistake.
Speaker 2: He was wicked here with evil.
Speaker 1: She thinks this man had something to do with it.
Robert's accused of sexual assaulting Corinne. The trial was supposed
to start today. On literally the eve of trial, hours
before this trial was supposed to begin. This victim dies
in a fire.
Speaker 8: That's say morning the sexual assault trial against Robert Seaman
was scheduled to begin, and Mahoning County Prosecutor Don Cantala
Mesa was prepared to go forward. Strangely enough, it seemed
that Robert was ready to proceed as well.
Speaker 15: It was probably eight thirty nine o'clock in the morning that.
Speaker 6: Morning, and he was.
Speaker 9: All dressed ready for his trial. And then the judge
ordered the records.
Speaker 6: From his GPS.
Speaker 9: Bracelet to be backed to the court so that she
could review where that GPS bracelet that he went. We
were able to then see from those records that they immediately.
Speaker 15: Fast that before coming to court that morning.
Speaker 9: He had stopped at the breaking point of Recovery Center,
for whom maintains his bracelets, and at Walgreens.
Speaker 8: The judge presiding over the sexual assault trial was informed
about the fire and Korn's death. When they reviewed the
GPS records from Robert's ankle monitor, they found no indication
that he had visited Bill and Judy's home, though his
tracker did reveal a trip to the headquarters of a
company responsible for monitoring the device that company was called
Breaking Point. When Robert arrived at Breaking Point early that morning,
he requested that his ankle monitor be tightened. Imagine that.
Imagine going to the place that makes your ankle monitor
and requesting that it be tightened. That doesn't raise any
red flags, does it? Anyway? The staff there complied for
the judge and prosecutors. Robert's scheme was pretty clear. He
had slipped off the monitor, driven to Bill and Judy's house,
set the fire, and returned home. Once there, he reattached
the ankle monitor and went to Breaking Point to have
it adjusted so that any evidence of tampering would be removed.
Robert was supposed to be on strict house arrest, permitted
only to leave for court or to meet with his lawyer.
This unauthorized trip to Breaking Point alone was a violation,
which led the judge thankfully to revoke his bond, a
bond he should have never had to begin with. Robert
was taken into custody, and soon after he was questioned
by detectives about the house fire.
Speaker 4: Now, you know, are you guys charging me or is that?
Speaker 17: Because well, I'm here to talk to you to hear
your side of the story.
Speaker 21: You seemed frustrated to me down there, and I said,
let's get this side of the story to put this
to bed quicker.
Speaker 4: I didn't burn that house out.
Speaker 22: What I'm gonna shape no matter how, there's no way
in how in a million years I touched that house
was near that house.
Speaker 8: As expected, Robert denied any involvement in setting the fire,
but the detectives didn't believe him. They humored him, asking
for details though about where he was and what he
did that morning. They already knew.
Speaker 14: I don't knew were you tonight out.
Speaker 22: I was nervous with the whole you know thing. So
I tried to sleep myself. I don't know, I might
have slept so probably two inch or so.
Speaker 2: And I get antsy, and then.
Speaker 22: I got out, try to watch the TV and cleaned up,
and you know, just basically I was nervous, you know,
the whole thing.
Speaker 4: So before I left, though, I showered, I got a shower.
Speaker 22: I just tried to do like chores around the house,
little things that keep me going, you know, And then
can you explain this?
Speaker 8: Detectives also inquired about the large burns on Robert's face
and his missing eye. House curiously, Robert claimed that the
burns weren't from the fire at all. He insisted he'd
only received them after being taken back into custody, saying
they were chemical burns he'd sustained in his jail cell,
because you know, jail cells have lots of chemicals in them.
Speaker 4: I go in the room. I don't know. I make
my bed.
Speaker 22: I turned around, and I didn't get to know.
Speaker 4: The guy's saying he has a little gotea on him.
Speaker 22: And there's a bottle inside of my room that says
like corrosion or whatever.
Speaker 14: It's a spray bottle of bleach. I guess I have
like bleach.
Speaker 4: I guess for the tubs or or whatever.
Speaker 22: And they put it in a bottle and you could
clean with it what was already in the room.
Speaker 4: I went in. You know, the kid came in the room.
He has a go to you. I don't know his
name because he kept taking his arm can off.
Speaker 14: I went in the room.
Speaker 22: I probably wasn't even in there ten minutes or so,
you know, roughly right about that, you know, I made
my bed. I turned around there he was. He threw
it at me and turned in my head this way.
I pushed and I got to the water as quick
as I could. In the meantime, he grabbed the thing
you know, I don't know. I guess he talked it
a toilet and then he walked out.
Speaker 8: The detectives knew Robert was lying, but they continued playing along.
They even offered to help Robert confirm his claim with
a free visit to the burn specialist. Unsurprisingly, Robert wasn't
too keen on taking them up on that offer.
Speaker 4: I get what you're saying, and I do, and I
know this. I'm sure that looks to you guys like
I'm guilty.
Speaker 14: Say how about this?
Speaker 17: Will you go to agronburn to give treatment so we
know exactly what this is.
Speaker 14: I already talked to my.
Speaker 22: Lawyer today and he got the like they have a
paper upstairs and the paper says on there it's chemical.
Speaker 4: And so I'm gonna be able.
Speaker 14: I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4: So for me to keep doing this, it's like, here's
what here, just hear me, go ahead.
Speaker 17: I want to send you to a professional burn doctor,
not in an emergency room, and say, ease doctor, because.
Speaker 14: This could put a lot of stuff to bed.
Speaker 22: Yeah, And like I said, it's just just like with
how many times you guys have sent someone to the
house right now, you understand like every day out of
the paper, and that torture is my family.
Speaker 4: Because I understand you got to keep doing your job.
Speaker 14: I get it.
Speaker 4: But the point is there has to be some point
where it's redundant.
Speaker 15: It's not just sus.
Speaker 14: That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying burn to the
bird to a professional.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, that's why I'm saying that it does.
Speaker 14: I don't understand.
Speaker 17: Where you're coming from, because ecause this could help end
this can put it.
Speaker 4: I get what you're saying, but you have to understand
my point of view.
Speaker 22: I mean, I'm trying to be as cooperative as I can,
but this is like a witch hunt to me.
Speaker 2: At this point.
Speaker 8: As far as evidence went, the burns on Robert's face
were bad enough, but detectives had a little bit more,
well a lot more.
Speaker 4: I don't want to do that. I mean, I understand
you guys, there's probably.
Speaker 14: Well let me let me ask you this. Why would
you go into Walgreens?
Speaker 4: Why would I going to Walgreens?
Speaker 10: Yes?
Speaker 14: Did you buy anything of Walgreens?
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 4: And then I was just killing time. That's why I
said that hard from there.
Speaker 2: On the corner.
Speaker 8: What Robert didn't know was that police had obtained surveillance
footage from Walgreens in case you're a criminal out there
and you're looking to do some criminal activity. It's twenty
twenty five, you, moron. There's cameras everywhere. This footage clearly
showed Robert entering the store and purchasing the makeup. It
was evident that the makeup was used to cover his flashburns.
Speaker 14: Let me ask you this, Do you wear makeup? Do
I wear a Macon? Yes, sir?
Speaker 4: No, I mean I don't.
Speaker 22: I mean I don't hardly wear makeup as far as
you're talking about the cover up for a zip that
I had and when I was calling to trial, so
I put it over a ZiT.
Speaker 4: I had my nose.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I do with it, matel.
Speaker 17: What about have you ever used eyebrow pencils?
Speaker 4: Eye profess and professors.
Speaker 8: Robert's lies were unraveling fast, and detectives knew precisely what
he had done that morning. It was written all over
his face. They knew he'd set the fire and ended
three lives. They knew that his crime had literally blown
up in his face. They knew he'd gone to Walgreens
to buy makeup to cover the evidence that was written
all over his dumb, stupid child raping mug.
Speaker 9: Because once he went to the jail and all that
makeup came off his face, you could see that he
had like flash burned on his face that had sined
his eyebrows.
Speaker 8: As detectives continued to press him, Robert tried to shift
the blame. It's always someone else's fault. In a desperate
attempt to divert attention, he hinted that detectives should look
a little closer instead at Krin's mom, Lynn Schmidt.
Speaker 4: But Lynn and the baby had lived with me for
over seven months.
Speaker 2: Now, you know, I'm nonsaw.
Speaker 4: She hasn't even seen her daughter, you know, Karin one time.
Speaker 22: And you know that was the fight thing with her
mom and dad. You know, they had it out, and
you know, she needed a place to say and I
wasn't you know, having my daughter shoot so to say,
you know. So they were more than molkal to be there.
Speaker 8: It was true that Lynn had returned to living with
Robert after the sex abuse allegations had surfaced. In fact,
she was at Robert's house on the morning that her
daughter Karen and her parents were killed in the fire.
Speaker 22: You know, Lynn unfortunately isn't saving, like I said, with her.
Speaker 4: You know, she's getting over half a.
Speaker 2: Million dollars with her parents gone.
Speaker 4: I mean literally, I mean they have over a half
million dollars in cash in the back.
Speaker 22: Everything's entitled in her name, so in no way shape
her form. I mean, I'm not saying that that she
would do. I wouldn't think she would do something like this.
But my point is she has so much money.
Speaker 4: When they die, it's like it might even be close to.
Speaker 17: Al I'm not trying to be rude, but essentially, you're
going to come into some money too.
Speaker 2: No, I ain't coming into the money as.
Speaker 14: Long as she's living with you.
Speaker 22: Yeah, she was living with me for the years before too,
but she never works. She never brought in any income.
Speaker 17: But she's not a half million dollars said, you're going
to get some of that?
Speaker 9: All right?
Speaker 14: Well, do you think she's going up and leave you.
Speaker 4: We're not on that good of.
Speaker 2: Terms, so to say.
Speaker 8: Lynn certainly appeared to have a motive for wanting her
parents dead, and Robert had no problem throwing her under
the bus, because you know, he's a hell of a guy.
Speaker 17: Do you think she could have had the opportunity to
get out of the house.
Speaker 15: During the night.
Speaker 22: I was probably sleeping at that time. But one thing
that was strange was the door was open, reunited, the
door was open. We always closed the door, like if
she gets out of the middle of the night, we
still close the door.
Speaker 4: We have a double door that closes. I were in
the master bedroom where we sleep at night.
Speaker 17: Do you think she had an opportunity when you were
sleeping to get out of the.
Speaker 2: House and get it back in. Yes, without you knowing
about it, because the door was open. That was the
weird thing that I thought was weird.
Speaker 8: Detectives were certain that Robert had started the fire. His
burns and his visit to Walgreens were proof enough, but
that didn't mean that Lynn was innocent. Far from it.
She could very well have known about Robert's plan or
even helped. She might have provided details about how to
get in to the house, where to pour the gasoline,
and the best time to strike. Considering that she continued
to live with her daughter's abuser, her capability seemed disturbing,
but without hard evidence, this all remained speculation kind of.
Speaker 9: So we've always from the very beginning suspected that Lynn
knew that Robert was going to do something that morning.
When the detectives first responded to the house. They went
to the early morning of March thirty, twenty fifteen, to.
Speaker 15: Do a well check on her, because.
Speaker 9: Obviously, if someone's going to kill the grandparents and the
victim of a crime or of the rape trial that
was supposed to.
Speaker 15: Happen that morning, we wanted to know.
Speaker 9: If anything happened to Lynn as well. And so when
the cops went there, when the house went to Robert
Semen's house, they pounded on the door, and no one
immediately came to the house. They went to around the back.
Speaker 15: I founded on the back door. They came back to
the front.
Speaker 9: They made entry to the house because no one was answering,
and they found Lynn just watching television in the family room,
and they asked her what she was doing there, why
she wasn't at court, and she said she was told
not to come to court to the next day. However,
both the state and the defense had subpoenaed Lynn for
the trial, and us being the state had subpoenaed her
for that day, so she should have actually been at
court that morning.
Speaker 8: As for motive, prosecutors did confirm that if her parents died,
Lynn would stand to inherit a significant amount of money.
Speaker 9: When Bill and Judy Schmid had died, they apparently had
had a life insurance policy which listed all three of
their children as beneficiaries, one being Karin's mom, And so
they called us to determine whether we had any information
or any.
Speaker 15: Evidence that would link Lynn to the.
Speaker 6: Fire, whether we thought she had been involved.
Speaker 9: So we thought she had anything to do with the.
Speaker 15: Arson and the murder of them, and we told them.
Speaker 9: We didn't have anything that said she was involved, but
we didn't have anything specific that said she had nothing
to do with it.
Speaker 8: In the end, if Lynn was involved in the murders
of her daughter and parents, detectives couldn't prove it. As
of today, Lynn Schmidt remains a free woman. Robert Seaman
was the only person ever charged for these murders.
Speaker 22: I said, I had nothing nowhere near that house. I
only I've never even drove by the street of that house.
I avoided completely circle around. I know, carez there. I
ain't going near that house. You know, why would I
if I had any intention of doing this, why would
this be done right before?
Speaker 16: It makes no sense, It makes zero sense for me.
I'm guilt, I look guilty. I'm the one, you know
what I'm trying to say. So, if somebody's did this,
it surely wasn't me.
Speaker 17: When people are knocked in the corner, they will do
anything to survive.
Speaker 4: It wasn't back in the corner.
Speaker 23: I understand that if you could review the case, the
only way that they had was correct. I had her mother,
I had the guardian of light, I had the juvenile record,
I had I mean, I had so much stuff that.
Speaker 4: It wasn't even it wasn't even close.
Speaker 14: I had her mother.
Speaker 8: You know, Robert maintained a facade of confidence, claiming that
he had a strong chance of beating the sexual assault charges.
But this was nothing more than phony. Bravado current statements
were powerful, and she had no reason to lie. A
ten year old wouldn't lie about something like this voluntarily,
not unless they were extraordinarily troubled. And then you got
to ask, why are they that troubled?
Speaker 2: At ten?
Speaker 8: Robert knew the consequences he faced if convicted, he would
likely spend his life in a federal prison, where as
a sex offender, he'd be in constant danger. As we
all know, a lot of inmates don't take too kindly
to child rapists. Nobody should. That's what wood chippers are for.
Backed into a corner, Robert was far more desperate than
he let on. His reasoning was clear. If he was
headed to prison for life, why not eliminate the one
witness against him. At best, he'd get away with it
and the charges would be dropped. At worst, he'd end
up in prison. All the same, Robert had everything to
gain and nothing to lose. Among the many frustrations in
this case, one glaring issue is that Robert should have
never been released on bail. What the fuck are we
doing in this country with cashless bail? How stupid are
we to come up with that shit? This monster should
have remained in custody until his trial. But even if
bail was granted, it should have been revoked long before
he had a chance to murder Korn and her grandparents.
Why don't judges like Maureen Sweeney understand incentives? I thought
people with law degrees were supposed to be smart.
Speaker 21: You advise that you had information about Roberts Seeman violating
his house for rest or possibly violated here is a way,
but he saw her how, you know, but just that
he was leaving a lot, you know.
Speaker 14: And then I called him and talked to the first prosecutor.
I figured her name right now. She's like, yeah, yo,
when you see him leave them, call him let me.
Speaker 2: Know every time whatever.
Speaker 14: So I called her a.
Speaker 2: Couple of times.
Speaker 8: While Robert was out on bail. His neighbor reported seeing
Robert leave the house multiple times a day at all hours,
despite being under house arrest. When these reports were made,
the court should have been alerted immediately and Robert's bond
should have been revoked, but it wasn't.
Speaker 9: When the judge got those records from the GPS company
who was monitoring him, when she was so pitched because
we also saw that he had been leaving his house
all the time. Apparently that breaking point never called the
court to tell them to tell the court that he
was leaving by going to tackle Bell and then going
to the mall and then going.
Speaker 6: To get a new suit.
Speaker 9: For trial, and they should have been reporting that to
the court, but they never told the court that he
was leaving all this time. And I don't know who
the neighbor was reporting it.
Speaker 6: To, but my guess is this state.
Speaker 9: If he was reported to someone, and they had reported
it to the police, maybe the court or whoever would
have heard, would have thought, well, if he was really leaving,
we get a report from Breaking Point that said he
was going outside and you know, going other places than
the courthouse or his attorney.
Speaker 8: As for the company responsible for tracking Robert Breaking Point,
their failure to do its job eventually didn't surprise anyone.
You see, it turns out that a lot of these
companies are bullshit. This one in particular, Their owner had
racked up nearly as many felonies and fraud convictions as
p Diddy has. Apparently.
Speaker 20: Ryan Sheridan's troubles started almost eighteen months ago, when state
and federal agents rated his Breaking Point recovery centers in
Austin Town had another location in Columbus. They also rated
homes owned by Sheridan. A few days later, directors with
the Ohio Department of Medicaid announced they had suspended Breaking
Points contracts. Then in March, federal investigators seized more than
two million dollars from him in May, the US Attorney's
office filed paperwork trying to seize Sheridan's million dollar home
in Latonia, claiming he used Medicaid money to buy it.
Fast forward to October, when a Columbiana County grand jury
indicted him on several drug charges, and just last month,
another indictment. This time federal prosecutors were involved. Sheridan and
five others were named as investigators accused them of running
a forty eight million dollar health care fraud conspiracy.
Speaker 8: Don't you just love how the government spends your money?
This story is, without question, both infuriating and deeply tragic.
Every safeguard that should have protected corn Gump failed her.
The courts, the lawyers with their fancy law degrees and
their Ivy League educations, the GPS monitoring system and company
that made it, and even Corin's own mother. All of
them fell short. All of them were huge disappointments. And
in the end, what chance did this little ten year
old girl really have?
Speaker 4: None?
Speaker 14: None at all.
Speaker 8: She was a sacrificial lamb to this corrupt, fucked up system. Eventually,
and as the routine goes, Robert Seman was arraigned on
murder charges for killing Korn and her grandparents. As expected,
he pled not guilty in this circus continued.
Speaker 20: Authorities admit they don't know how Semen managed to get
out of his electronic monitoring ankle bracelet that morning, or
how he got back and forth from the Schmids home
to set the fire they believed caused his burns, But
they do believe they had more than enough evidence to
convince a Portage County jury Seemen was so desperate to
get out.
Speaker 14: Of his rape case that he'd kill his young victim.
Speaker 8: By now, you're probably expecting the typical outcome for a
case like this, something along the lines of Robert was
sentenced to life in prison or Robert was sentenced to death.
But think again, this story has one final twist you
won't like it. Just days before his murdered trial was
set to begin, the judge called prosecutors, defense, and Robert
himself into court for a final status hearing.
Speaker 15: So we've been in this status conference. The judge was
asking us.
Speaker 9: Everybody ready, So we were done with that. We left
out the back chambers of the court. We walked just
twaining on the fourth floor of the monon Kant Courthouse.
Speaker 15: So we walked around the corner.
Speaker 9: We got in the elevator and we usually go down
to the basement and go through our tunnel tar office.
As soon as we got back, I got a call
from one of the deputies that he had jumped, and
I said, no, he didn't.
Speaker 6: Why are you playing with me?
Speaker 9: And they said, no, we're we're hitting a jump. And
my first reaction was as he did.
Speaker 8: After the status hearing, Robert was escorted by two deputies
down the courtroom halls back towards his cell. During this
walk out of nowhere, Robert flung himself over a fourth
floor railing.
Speaker 13: At approximately ninety this morning, Robert Seaman was having a
final pre trial hearing on the fourth floor in Judge
Sweeney's courtroom. The court adjourned while the deputies were escorting
mister Seamen down the hallway to go back to our
holding cell. He basically took a leap off of the
fourth floor. So we a real quick look at what
took place here. The deputies actually did a great job.
They did what they were supposed to do when they
were escort and it out. And you know, I can't
speak for mister Seamen. He must have had his mind.
Speaker 3: Made up murder and arson suspect Robert Seaman is dead
after jumping from the balcony of the Mahone County Courthouse.
Semen is the man accused of killing a little girl
and her grandparents and an arson just over two years ago.
Speaker 8: In the end, Robert performed one final act that could
be seen only as a favor to society. He took
his own life. The coward didn't want to face what
was waiting for him in prison. As for the deputies
escorting him, no one seemed to care, and really, why
should they who could blame him?
Speaker 14: Are we going to change anything?
Speaker 13: Well, we're going to look at that, obviously, but you know,
I don't see any issues with this and I am
certainly not going to lose sleep over this one.
Speaker 8: Since lawyers can't put a dead man on trial, the
prosecutors had no choice but to dismiss the charges against
Robert Seaman. In the eyes of the court, he was
never found guilty of anything, dying an innocent man on paper.
Hopefully this one episode of a podcast a few people
might hear. One day, we'll at least get Kurran's story
out to the world, writing this horrible wrong that our
system of laws have created.
Speaker 9: We never got to present our evidence to a jury,
but we were so convinced of his guilt in this case.
Speaker 6: I mean, not only did we have the pending.
Speaker 9: Rape charge where she's listed as a victim and he
knows where she is.
Speaker 6: We had the two gas.
Speaker 9: Cans at the back door with his DNA and the glove.
We had the makeup that he's found with in the
that morning.
Speaker 6: A trial, and him buying the.
Speaker 9: Make at that Walgreens that morning along with the eyebrow pencils.
Speaker 6: Then we had the pictures of.
Speaker 9: His burnt face from once the makeup war off that morning.
Since everything pointed to him as the one who's committed
it and no one else, there was never Once we
had all that evidence lined up, there was never any
doubt in our minds that Robert Seamen did it.
Speaker 8: The evidence against Robert was overwhelming, leaving almost no chance
he'd escaped justice. Perhaps the final nail in his coffin
was the DNA found on the plastic gloves stuffed into
the neck of one of the gasoline cans that was
found outside Bill and Judy's home, the home that was
set on fire with them in it. That DNA was
a perfect match for Robert Seaman, and unlike people DNA
don't lie, Robert knew that his life as he knew
it was over, and the fact that he chose to
end his life only under scores his guilt.
Speaker 24: I think it's very telling. I think it's very telling.
He knew the evidence against him. Every witness we'd talked
to in preparation for the case that they didn't know
why he was not pleading guilty or not asking for
some kind of plea. So this is very telling to
anyone out there.
Speaker 9: We knew he did it, he knew he had the evidence,
and there was no way he was going to get.
Speaker 6: Away with this.
Speaker 8: There are so many lessons to take away from this case,
but perhaps the most significant is the role single parents
must play in protecting their own children. Above all, a
parent must place their child's welfare first. They must be
the strongest line of defense for their own blood. There
are predators in the henhouse, there have always been, and
there will always be. You better be a good fucking
mother hen If you're going to even lay an egg.
Speaker 15: Know who your children.
Speaker 6: Are hanging out with.
Speaker 15: You know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Like their daughter was hanging out with this.
Speaker 9: Robert Semen, I always think it's weird when you let
another man into your house with your biological children, who
isn't their dad.
Speaker 8: All parents have a responsibility to protect their children, but
for single parents that responsibility comes with quite a bit
of nuance. They must safeguard their kids, and not just
from obvious dangers, but from those that might come disguised
as affection. They can't let their own needs surpass the
safety of their children, and if they do choose to
allow someone into their lives and home, they have to
stay vigilant. The caution is essential. If that caution isn't there,
someone like Robert Seaman can worm their way in and
they will manipulate anyone and everyone to get what they want.
You can't be a mom and a dumb bitch at
the same time. It just doesn't work if you are
a single parent that is also seeking romance. The hard
truth is that you need to stay on guard.
Speaker 2: It's sad.
Speaker 8: I know it sucks, but that's the world we live
in because in the end, nobody, not the government, not
the courts, not the cops, will protect your kids. Only
you can do that. The innocent child named core N
Gump died in twenty fifteen. She was only ten years old.
If she were alive today, she'd be about twenty. A
young woman just starting out her life, who knows what
dreams lay ahead, what possibilities lay open before her. Tragically,
the legal system and her own mother, and actually the
whole fucking world, to be honest with, you failed her.
We all failed her. Society needs to get their head
out of their ass. It ain't a Disney movie. The
real world is harsh, ugly and disgusting and people can
be also. Hey, go sign up for plus. Tired of begging?
At least buy something to the store, store door and
scale dot com. You guys are cheap as fuck? Did
you know that? Anyway, I'll be here next week regardless.
Until then, stay safe, I guess
Speaker 7: S