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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Podsave America. I'm Tommy v Tour.

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<v Speaker 2>The final game of the twenty twenty six FIFA World

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<v Speaker 2>Cup is now about a week away, and I am

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<v Speaker 2>already genuinely sad that this is about to be over.

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<v Speaker 2>The tournament has taken me from casual fan to full

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<v Speaker 2>on World Cup junkie, and I don't know what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to do going forward, to not.

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<v Speaker 3>Do work at the office because we just have the

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<v Speaker 3>games on all day.

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<v Speaker 2>And what makes this all the more remarkable is that

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<v Speaker 2>before the World Cup began, there was a global sense

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<v Speaker 2>of anxiety and concern about holding this tournament in Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's America. Fans from all around the world were worried

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<v Speaker 2>about ice raids, VSA restrictions, travel bands, and then also

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<v Speaker 2>you know, issues with FIFA itself, like the exorbitant price

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<v Speaker 2>of tickets. That one was not resolved by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>and while there have been some unfortunate incidents, mostly the

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<v Speaker 2>conversation has been about the excitement around the US men's team,

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<v Speaker 2>at least at first, the unbelievable quality of the games themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>the incredible finishes, and the joy of watching fans from

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<v Speaker 2>around the world come to America, fall in love with

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<v Speaker 2>our cities, our culture inhale food from waffle House and

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<v Speaker 2>serenade stadiums with songs and even Viking chants, and it

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<v Speaker 2>has served as a reminder to a lot of us.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that we live in a great country and

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<v Speaker 2>one that is defined by its people and not by

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<v Speaker 2>its politics. So today, to dig into all things World Cup,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm thrilled to be joined by Soccer Royalty.

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<v Speaker 1>Gary Lineker.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a former England striker, broadcaster and co founder of Goalhanger.

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<v Speaker 2>He was one of the greatest soccer players of his generation.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy had a hat trick in the eighty six

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<v Speaker 2>World Cup. Incredible. Gary played in one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>famous soccer games in history against Argentinian legend Diego Maradona

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<v Speaker 2>and today he's one of Britain's best known sports broadcasters

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<v Speaker 2>and he's one who has used its platform to speak

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<v Speaker 2>out about social justice issues and has even been criticized

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<v Speaker 2>for statements he's made, which we'll get into in the

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<v Speaker 2>interview today. Gary is the host of an excellent soccer

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<v Speaker 2>podcast called The Rest Is Football, which you can catch

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<v Speaker 2>on Netflix throughout the World Cup and if you're in

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<v Speaker 2>the market for a new podcast, check Up, Goalhangar. They've

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<v Speaker 2>got a bunch of great shows. The rest is history,

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<v Speaker 2>the rest is politics. The list goes on. And another

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<v Speaker 2>great way to support progressive independent media is to become

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<v Speaker 2>a friend of the pod subscriber. Here with Crooked Media,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll get ad free episodes of Pot Save America. You'll

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<v Speaker 2>get other great Crooked shows like Pot Save the World

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<v Speaker 2>is ad free as well. You'll get tons of bonus content,

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<v Speaker 2>including bonus Pot Save America episodes. You get deep dives

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<v Speaker 2>into the polling, the latest polls from Dan Pfeiffer. There's

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<v Speaker 2>great newsletters, much much more so becoming a paid subscriber.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the single best way you.

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<v Speaker 2>Can support our work and help us grow. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you like what we're doing, please consider it. And with that,

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<v Speaker 2>here's my conversation with Gary Lineker. So, Gary, I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>casual soccer fan who has become obsessed with this World Cup.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's really it's a pleasure for me to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to a soccer legend like you, as someone who played

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<v Speaker 2>in two World Cups for England, You've covered soccer for decades.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your impressions of the tournament so far?

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's been quite joyous at times.

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<v Speaker 5>There are always with all big tournaments, especially the World Cup,

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<v Speaker 5>they're always pros and cons, but I think by and

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<v Speaker 5>large it's gone spectacularly well in many ways. On the pitch,

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<v Speaker 5>I think the football has been really good, and some

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<v Speaker 5>brilliant games, some cracking stories of underdogs, you know Cape

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<v Speaker 5>Verdi for example.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the real joy.

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<v Speaker 5>Has probably been the way the fans have celebrated not

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<v Speaker 5>just their own victories, but celebrated together and kind of

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<v Speaker 5>shown a lovely humanity and togetherness that we've probably not

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<v Speaker 5>seen previously. And perhaps it's a little message to the

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<v Speaker 5>world that we can get on, yeah, even if we're

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<v Speaker 5>on from all parts of the world. So I think

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<v Speaker 5>that's been that's been wonderful. The tournament's building up now

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<v Speaker 5>obviously to the crescendo, the excitement that the big final,

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<v Speaker 5>but I think it's been way better than I actually

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<v Speaker 5>thought it would be.

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<v Speaker 4>They're obviously going into it.

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<v Speaker 5>Like we do in all World Cups, we always think

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<v Speaker 5>there's you know, there's gonna be things that go wrong,

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<v Speaker 5>and there have been and things that we perhaps don't like,

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<v Speaker 5>But overall.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's been I think it's been a triumph.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, I mean that that's sort of why I

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<v Speaker 2>was wondering. I mean, the lead up to the tournament,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of anxiety about you know, Trump

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<v Speaker 2>administration policies, the impact on the quality of play, from

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<v Speaker 2>the expansion of the tournament to more teams, ticket prices.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that one has not been resolved because I've

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<v Speaker 2>been on stell Oh my god, people are people don't

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<v Speaker 2>love FIFA generally, right, and Johnny and Fantino and given

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<v Speaker 2>the you know, fucking FIFA Peace Prize and stuff. But

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<v Speaker 2>once the game started, the conversation shifted to the play

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<v Speaker 2>on the field, the clips of you know, the Scottish

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<v Speaker 2>fans at Fenway Park singing, you know, through the seventh

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<v Speaker 2>inning of a game. Is that like just what happens

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<v Speaker 2>every few of a World Cup, Like there's anxieties and

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<v Speaker 2>then the play starts and we move on or what

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<v Speaker 2>do you make of it?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.

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<v Speaker 5>So you go, I've covered so many, so many World Cups,

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<v Speaker 5>and I've played in a couple of them. But prior

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<v Speaker 5>to the World Cup, everyone expresses their fears and their concerns.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of anticipation, excitement as well on the

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<v Speaker 5>positive side, but also I go but let's not go

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<v Speaker 5>back too far. But let's go to twenty fourteen in Brazil,

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<v Speaker 5>all the fans with like thousands and thousands of people

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<v Speaker 5>on the streets demonstrating the fact that they're spending so

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<v Speaker 5>much money on the World Cup stadiums, et cetera, rather

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<v Speaker 5>than the infrastructure and perhaps the health service in Brazil.

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<v Speaker 4>Roll on four years. We're in Russia.

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<v Speaker 5>Four years previously they invaded Crimea, so that was you know,

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<v Speaker 5>a massive concern. When we go on to Qatar and

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<v Speaker 5>there was concerns about lgbt Q plus right, people have

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<v Speaker 5>been dying making the building the stadiums. But again going

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<v Speaker 5>into this one, we're obviously worried about the situation who's

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<v Speaker 5>going to be allowed into this country and which we

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<v Speaker 5>never had before. We did have concerns obviously when the referee,

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<v Speaker 5>the Somalian referee wasn't allowed in and but you know,

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<v Speaker 5>everyone was worried about ice taking fans off the streets,

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<v Speaker 5>but that's thankfully not really transpired. So yeah, it's it

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<v Speaker 5>was ever thus really and you know, during the World

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<v Speaker 5>Cups there are always things that you don't like and

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<v Speaker 5>there's been things like you said, the ticket price, and

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<v Speaker 5>I think it's outrageous.

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<v Speaker 4>FIFA is supposed to been non for profit organization.

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<v Speaker 5>They've got billions pounds or dollars or euros in the

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<v Speaker 5>in Swiss banks, and obviously I always say it goes

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<v Speaker 5>back into the game, and a lot of it of

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<v Speaker 5>course does. But I don't think it's right when you've

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<v Speaker 5>got something as special as a World Cup that profit

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<v Speaker 5>becomes the most important thing rather than the experience of

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<v Speaker 5>football fans. I don't think it's right that fans should

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<v Speaker 5>have to take out a mortgage or sell their car.

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<v Speaker 4>To get a ticket to go and watch a football match.

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<v Speaker 4>So I don't like that.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't like the interference we've had in this World Cup.

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<v Speaker 5>In terms of what happened with Baligan, the American forward

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<v Speaker 5>that was you got a red card, which was I

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<v Speaker 5>thought a really poor decision, but they didn't reverse the decision,

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<v Speaker 5>they just postponed. Is the fact that he's suspension, which

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<v Speaker 5>felt wrong, and now we've got an English player in

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<v Speaker 5>exactly the same position. He's got two game ban so

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<v Speaker 5>you just think, how can this possibly happen?

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<v Speaker 4>So there are always things in the tournament.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but I think the positives far outweigh the negatives overall.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I want to ask you about FIFA in a bit. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there are a nonprofit. I would love to

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<v Speaker 2>see what the line item is for Jihnny and Fantino's

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<v Speaker 2>private jet this month, because he's had a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>games that are far away, and boy, they cut to

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<v Speaker 2>him a bunch during the broadcast, I've noticed. Before we

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<v Speaker 2>get to that, though, So you played on some of

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest professional clubs in England, also in Spain. You

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<v Speaker 2>played for England in eighty international games. How does the

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<v Speaker 2>feeling of stepping onto the field at the World Cup

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<v Speaker 2>compare to those other big games?

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<v Speaker 3>In moments?

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<v Speaker 4>Nothing like it? Representing New country to World Cup.

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<v Speaker 5>I think it's I think it's the most special thing

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<v Speaker 5>you can ever do. I would compare it probably to

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<v Speaker 5>an athlete in the Olympic Games. That's their moment every

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<v Speaker 5>four years. But this is sort of it's a little

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<v Speaker 5>bit different to just a medal table compare. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>US are always there with China and it's always always

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<v Speaker 5>the same people because there's so many different sports involved.

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<v Speaker 5>But football is is.

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<v Speaker 4>Kind of a Globe sport. Even you guys enjoyed in

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you're trying a bit.

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<v Speaker 5>Of interest, I've noticed, so, which is which is great.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's a chance.

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<v Speaker 5>Really, I don't think there's anything like it where you

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<v Speaker 5>can show your patrioticness supporting your country, but at the

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<v Speaker 5>same time we can all get on and enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 4>So it is unique.

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<v Speaker 5>And when you walk out, you know, represent your country

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<v Speaker 5>and you stand there and they're playing the national anthem,

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<v Speaker 5>and especially if things go well, I mean, it's it's

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<v Speaker 5>just it's hard to describe. It's just like it's just

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<v Speaker 5>like this is huge explosion of joy and pride.

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<v Speaker 4>It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>You had a hat trick against Poland in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty six World Cup. They were going through some shit

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<v Speaker 2>at the time. You know, they had one party rule,

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<v Speaker 2>they had Chernobyl. Did you feel bad about that at all?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you feel bad about, you know, beating them that bad?

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<v Speaker 5>If I'm really honest, not particularly. I mean, obviously some

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<v Speaker 5>terrible things in all countries suffer at different at different times,

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<v Speaker 5>and we've been we've been responsible for a lot of

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<v Speaker 5>it over hundreds of years. But you know, when you're

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<v Speaker 5>on that football pitch. You just want to play and

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<v Speaker 5>you want to score, and you want to win, and

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<v Speaker 5>you it's.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nothing like you're tougher on that country than being

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<v Speaker 2>Communism even.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that was a tough game.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you transition from from player to broadcaster to podcaster,

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<v Speaker 2>do you ever feel bad about taking podcasting jobs away

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<v Speaker 2>from unathletic slubs that used to have them.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think I've done that. I think we've added

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<v Speaker 5>lots of podcasts. I've got a company, cool Gold.

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<v Speaker 1>You get some some athletic slubs on the payroll. You

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<v Speaker 1>feel like.

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<v Speaker 4>We've definitely got some of those.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, say some downloads for the rest of us, all right.

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<v Speaker 4>We've got we've got political pods as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, you do. You have some great ones.

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<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned this earlier, that the story about Trump

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<v Speaker 2>calling the FIFA president to lift the suspension against one

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<v Speaker 2>of America's best players. Flow of elegance. We could play

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<v Speaker 2>against Belgium, so the US we got worked in that game.

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<v Speaker 2>We lost badly, So the suspension of Baligan's red card

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't matter much in terms of the outcome of

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<v Speaker 2>that specific game. But as you said, that decision is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be. It's going to hang around FIFA's neck

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time. So do you think Baligan deserved

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<v Speaker 2>a red card on the play? And like, what has

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<v Speaker 2>the international reaction been to what FIFA did?

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<v Speaker 1>How big a deal is this?

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<v Speaker 5>It's it's a pretty big deal because I think it

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<v Speaker 5>goes against the integrity of our sport. You know, you've

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<v Speaker 5>got to have rules and they've got to be fair

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<v Speaker 5>and they've got to be the same for everyone. You

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<v Speaker 5>can't have, you know, one rule for one and one

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<v Speaker 5>rule for another, not in our sport. So and we've

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<v Speaker 5>never had anything I don't think quite like this before.

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<v Speaker 4>So you know, whilst it probably well, it most.

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<v Speaker 5>Certainly didn't make any difference or it might have had

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<v Speaker 5>some kind of negative effect on America's performance with all

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<v Speaker 5>the hulla baloo around around this, So I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, Belgium are always likely to be the US.

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<v Speaker 5>It's you know, it's not your obviously your primary sport

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<v Speaker 5>in this country.

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<v Speaker 4>You're you're on a road.

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<v Speaker 5>I think you're on a journey where football is growing

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<v Speaker 5>in this country.

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<v Speaker 4>You've got a league now that's you know, you've got one.

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<v Speaker 5>Or two of the best players in the World Messi

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<v Speaker 5>Messi is here, so I think it is growing. But

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<v Speaker 5>I've always wondered why why in terms of fifather, they're

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<v Speaker 5>so obsessed with trying to get America to be super

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<v Speaker 5>interested in our sport. Because if ever you are, if

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<v Speaker 5>you ever get all your real athletes play, now, okay,

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<v Speaker 5>you might be bloody good and that would be really irritating.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hear you.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, I knew were in trouble in that game.

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<v Speaker 2>Well we were in trouble already, but when Belgium subbed

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<v Speaker 2>in a striker who had been named league MVP in

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00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.799
<v Speaker 2>the Serie R late in the game, the sky the cuckoo,

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00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.120
<v Speaker 2>and then we subbed in the former coach's son who

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<v Speaker 2>played for an MLS club in Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>They kind of told you everything about the quality of

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<v Speaker 1>the players who are.

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<v Speaker 6>Of course, Potta of America's brought you by ze Biotics.

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<v Speaker 6>I use it all the time. It's whenever I know

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<v Speaker 6>that you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna drink tonight.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna have drinks, Have two drinks, throw one down.

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<v Speaker 3>You had at your wedding.

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<v Speaker 1>I had my wedding.

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<v Speaker 3>People loved it.

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<v Speaker 6>People loved it, and it was great and you feel

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<v Speaker 6>better the next day. July is packed with barbecues, fireworks,

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<v Speaker 6>late weekends and late nights with friends. Keep the good

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<v Speaker 6>times rolling to the next day. Drink pre alcohol before

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<v Speaker 2>you by Sundays. Have you ever actually looked at the

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<v Speaker 2>ingredient list on your dog's food after no after the

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<v Speaker 2>first ingredient well, good Luck kibble is made using extreme

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<v Speaker 2>high heat to keep its shelf stable and inexpensive, so

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<v Speaker 2>brands have to add back the synthetic vitamins and minerals

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<v Speaker 2>in the form of unpronounceable chemicals. Is that really what

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<v Speaker 2>you want to feed your beloved pet day in and

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<v Speaker 2>day out. Sundays for Dogs is different. Founded by doctor

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<v Speaker 2>as a veterinarian and as a dog parent. Sunday starts

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<v Speaker 2>And Sunday's just launched a brand new fish recipe. It's

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<v Speaker 2>friendly invasive carp source from American rivers.

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<v Speaker 3>For a naturally rich flavor.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus, it's packed with a Mega three fatty acids that

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<v Speaker 2>help support healthy skin, shiny coats, joints, and brain function.

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<v Speaker 2>It's complete and balanced nutrition for all of life stages.

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<v Speaker 2>A little behind the scenes here. So John Doug Leo

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<v Speaker 2>was in the office today along with Pundit. Yeah love

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<v Speaker 2>It's dog. John kept putting Sundays in Leo's bowl. Leo

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00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:18.919
<v Speaker 2>would try to start to eat it, get distracted, and

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00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:19.679
<v Speaker 2>then punk.

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00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.080
<v Speaker 6>Comes punlash it and it comes Punnet.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a battle for that food. These dogs absolutely

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00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:24.759
<v Speaker 3>love that food.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've noticed from both of them more energy, better moods,

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00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.679
<v Speaker 2>more common focused after coats, less itching.

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00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.519
<v Speaker 6>You know, Pundit is manitching lass yeah a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she looks good.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let me ask you about that US team though.

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00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.919
<v Speaker 2>So I got to see the US team play against Panama.

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<v Speaker 2>It was one of the most fun experiences pure I've

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00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.240
<v Speaker 2>ever been to sports whatever concerts anything. Everyone left that

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00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:07.600
<v Speaker 2>stadium full of hope and excitement and saying the same

328
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.159
<v Speaker 2>thing like this is our breakout year. And throughout the

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00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.279
<v Speaker 2>group stage we looked pretty good. We were operating and

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00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.360
<v Speaker 2>felt like we were operating on a different level. And

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<v Speaker 2>then Belgium shows up and they kicked a shit out

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<v Speaker 2>of us. And it's an unbiased outsider like, give it

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00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.399
<v Speaker 2>to a strake Gary, were we actually any better this

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00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.159
<v Speaker 2>year or the US team? And what do you think

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00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.159
<v Speaker 2>happened against Belgium?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I think I remember being interviewed early on after

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<v Speaker 5>the before the tournament, and you're always asked, obviously, how

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<v Speaker 5>the host nation will go.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the host.

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<v Speaker 5>Nations America, which and I always said, if they got

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<v Speaker 5>to the last sixteen, I think that would be a

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<v Speaker 5>really good effort. I couldn't really seriously see them getting

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<v Speaker 5>past anyone that was any good, like a proper big

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<v Speaker 5>European team, one of the North African sides. But I

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00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.360
<v Speaker 5>thought the fact that they did so well in the

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<v Speaker 5>group stage was a real plus for the States and

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00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.680
<v Speaker 5>the tournament as a whole, because you want the host

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00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:12.119
<v Speaker 5>nations doing reasonably well. So, if I'm really honest, rather

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00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.920
<v Speaker 5>than being diplomatic, I would say that's as far as

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00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.680
<v Speaker 5>I ever saw them going, you know. And you know,

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<v Speaker 5>it's funny after that first game, you talked about the

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<v Speaker 5>Panama game when they had that incredible first half, and

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<v Speaker 5>it was really good to see. And I know Mauricio

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<v Speaker 5>a really well pochetting and he's a delightful man, and

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00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.160
<v Speaker 5>I'm really pleased for him for that, and it was

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<v Speaker 5>a terrific performance. So all my American friends, you said,

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00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.279
<v Speaker 5>were coming at me and saying texting me and saying you.

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<v Speaker 4>Were wrong abouts we're going to go all the way.

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<v Speaker 4>And I was going to mate.

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<v Speaker 5>Honestly, I know these World Cups and it's always the

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<v Speaker 5>hope that kills you.

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00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.359
<v Speaker 4>As soon as you start believing a little bit, all

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00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:49.880
<v Speaker 4>goes wrong.

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<v Speaker 5>As an Englishman, I'm very experienced in that many many times.

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<v Speaker 5>But overall I thought they did pretty well. I think

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<v Speaker 5>the plava surrounding Baligan's thing did.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think it helped them.

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<v Speaker 5>I think if I think Mauricia missed the trick there,

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<v Speaker 5>I think he should have just said no, we're not

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<v Speaker 5>doing that, it's not right. I think he could. I

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<v Speaker 5>would have been a very difficult thing to do. And

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<v Speaker 5>if they'd have lost in the same way. Having done that,

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<v Speaker 5>he would have been probably hung out to dry. So

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<v Speaker 5>it's easy for me to say that, but I think

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<v Speaker 5>it probably had some kind of effect.

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00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:24.519
<v Speaker 4>But overall, you know.

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00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:29.079
<v Speaker 5>You've got you've got half a good team, but there's

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00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.920
<v Speaker 5>not much depth yet and hopefully the sport will grow,

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00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:32.720
<v Speaker 5>but we'll see.

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00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Pochettino had sat Baligan. I think he might have

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00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:38.559
<v Speaker 2>been the first guy thrown into ice detention while in

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<v Speaker 2>a stadium by Trump.

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00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.200
<v Speaker 1>So you know, it's a challenging situation to be in.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you make of the criticism of America star

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00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.599
<v Speaker 2>player Christian Polisic. He did not have a great World Cup.

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00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.039
<v Speaker 2>He subbed himself off with an injury. I've seen some

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00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.200
<v Speaker 2>former US men's national team players specifically criticizing him, which

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00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.279
<v Speaker 2>feels I'm sure it's painful for him, But what do

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00:18:59.319 --> 00:18:59.839
<v Speaker 2>you make of this?

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00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.200
<v Speaker 5>I think it's a little unfair because I think his

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00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.039
<v Speaker 5>his abilities were taken a little bit out of proportion.

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00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.519
<v Speaker 5>I mean, policy's a very good player, very very good footballer.

393
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.640
<v Speaker 5>He's had a good career. He's played in England, he's

394
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:17.440
<v Speaker 5>played he's played in Italy. He's a he's a good footballer.

395
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.119
<v Speaker 5>But you know when you seen he's on all the

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00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.920
<v Speaker 5>billboards here. I mean we're doing the show it from

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00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:27.480
<v Speaker 5>here in from Times Square, and and he's everywhere, and

398
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.880
<v Speaker 5>you think, well, that's it's almost like he's Messy or Ronaldo.

399
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.559
<v Speaker 4>And with all due respect, he's a very good footballer,

400
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:36.000
<v Speaker 4>but he's not a great player.

401
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:37.680
<v Speaker 5>He's not you know, he's not one of the best

402
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 5>in the world by a long stretch. But I think

403
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.640
<v Speaker 5>when you're the you've got carrying the hearts of a

404
00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.400
<v Speaker 5>nation and the hopes of a nation, that pressure was

405
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.519
<v Speaker 5>probably so much. So I feel for him actually because

406
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.680
<v Speaker 5>whilst it's probably exciting to be treated as the big

407
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.680
<v Speaker 5>superstar of you know, of a World Cup, and in

408
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.319
<v Speaker 5>reality that was never realistically going to happen.

409
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:01.960
<v Speaker 4>So I can.

410
00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.720
<v Speaker 5>I can sympathize with him to a degree. It just

411
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:09.279
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't deserve all the criticism. Football is very, very hard.

412
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.039
<v Speaker 5>It's difficult. You know, you play best players in the

413
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:13.559
<v Speaker 5>world and they.

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00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:15.440
<v Speaker 4>Have to stop you.

415
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.559
<v Speaker 5>You know, I've played us forward all my career and

416
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.680
<v Speaker 5>these we have these things called defenders and they're out

417
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 5>there to stop You'll or buy crop, they'll try it.

418
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.200
<v Speaker 4>In some way.

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00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Every World Cup we kind of talk about is this

420
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the US's year. Are we going to take soccer to

421
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.680
<v Speaker 2>the next level? And it's to the point where it's

422
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of become a running joke, but like what would

423
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:34.039
<v Speaker 2>that entail?

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00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Is that more developing the professional level? Are we talking

425
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.720
<v Speaker 1>about like getting more kids involved? All of the above?

426
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.240
<v Speaker 4>All of the above. Really, you've got You've got a

427
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:42.920
<v Speaker 4>long way to go.

428
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.640
<v Speaker 5>What you need You've got a league now, which is

429
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.599
<v Speaker 5>you know, you've had a league before, obviously it didn't

430
00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.240
<v Speaker 5>quite work and they've started again.

431
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:50.599
<v Speaker 4>Now you've got a league.

432
00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.519
<v Speaker 5>You need to work out a plan for for youse

433
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.440
<v Speaker 5>football both. I mean, obviously you set great examples in

434
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.000
<v Speaker 5>the women's game. You're probably the best in the world

435
00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.920
<v Speaker 5>that I would say, they're amazing, But you need a

436
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 5>I think that needs an overall plan and where you've

437
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.720
<v Speaker 5>got to really I think concentrate on the young the

438
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:22.559
<v Speaker 5>youth players, the kids, get them taught properly. I know,

439
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.640
<v Speaker 5>I've I've spent a lot of time in America over

440
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.119
<v Speaker 5>the years and I've been to I've seen that. You know,

441
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:29.960
<v Speaker 5>there's a lot of football camps, but you need some

442
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.720
<v Speaker 5>kind of proper organization, probably led by the various MLS.

443
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.319
<v Speaker 4>Clubs around around the country.

444
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.680
<v Speaker 5>Where they can recruit the best talent and get them

445
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.920
<v Speaker 5>properly trained and coached. Obviously, you've got a very different

446
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.920
<v Speaker 5>system to US and Europe in all football really of

447
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:50.519
<v Speaker 5>how you deal with players that go in they are young,

448
00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.920
<v Speaker 5>so in our country for example, and the same applies

449
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.319
<v Speaker 5>across Europe. If you've got any hope of being a

450
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.799
<v Speaker 5>soccer player, you've got to join a club when you're sixteen.

451
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 5>Your education they will cope, they'll give you education on

452
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 5>the side, but you have to start sixty.

453
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.880
<v Speaker 4>Obviously, in America with your sports.

454
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.240
<v Speaker 5>They go to college or they go to university and

455
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.880
<v Speaker 5>they get draft picks and by you know, if you

456
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.119
<v Speaker 5>do that in football, it's too late. It's too late

457
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.079
<v Speaker 5>by the time you're twenty. There will be you know,

458
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.559
<v Speaker 5>there's always examples that will prove that wrong, but not

459
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.759
<v Speaker 5>that many. So I think the whole I think you

460
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.960
<v Speaker 5>really need to have a good think and proper planning

461
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.839
<v Speaker 5>in terms of not just wait for a World Cup

462
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.359
<v Speaker 5>and then hope it goes well, but build a long

463
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.640
<v Speaker 5>term future, look ten twenty thirty years ahead, because it

464
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:43.279
<v Speaker 5>is realistically going to take that long fear to challenge.

465
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 2>So with the bearer, twenty thirty is our years, what

466
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.119
<v Speaker 2>you're telling me, Yeah, so let me talking about ask

467
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.799
<v Speaker 2>you with PEPA fepa famously corrupt organization. In twenty fifteen,

468
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:56.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, we watched a bunch of fe of officials

469
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 2>get dragged out of a hotel in Zurich and they're underwear.

470
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.319
<v Speaker 2>They were for taking bribes. It's like one hundred and

471
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:05.880
<v Speaker 2>fifty million dollars in bribes. All these sports marketing executives too.

472
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Doj is accused FIFA of accepting bribes from reps from

473
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:11.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, Russia and Qatar to get those hosting rights

474
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 2>in those countries. Set Bladder, the former president of FIFA.

475
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.640
<v Speaker 2>He's currently banned from soccer related activities Johnny and Fantino.

476
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.440
<v Speaker 2>The new guy doesn't seem like much of an improvement

477
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 2>to me.

478
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'm I'm you know, a casual watching

479
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>this stuff.

480
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:28.759
<v Speaker 2>Given how much money stand to be made from international soccer,

481
00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.119
<v Speaker 2>do you have hope of reforming the organization?

482
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:32.920
<v Speaker 1>And what would that even look like.

483
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:37.440
<v Speaker 4>I've been hoping for that for a long time.

484
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:42.559
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I find it quite quite depressing, particularly the cases

485
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:43.319
<v Speaker 5>you talked about.

486
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:43.880
<v Speaker 4>I was.

487
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.839
<v Speaker 5>I was in the room when when Qatar and Russia

488
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:49.119
<v Speaker 5>were given the World Cup.

489
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:50.920
<v Speaker 4>I didn't have a particular problem with Russia.

490
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:54.519
<v Speaker 5>It's a big football nation that never hosted it, and

491
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:56.440
<v Speaker 5>I don't really have a problem with it being in

492
00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.559
<v Speaker 5>the Middle East and Qatar either. But but what hurt,

493
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 5>what made it feel dirty, was was the it was

494
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:08.359
<v Speaker 5>so obvious that the bids were corrupt, and it was

495
00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.319
<v Speaker 5>latterly proved to be the case that you know, a

496
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:12.400
<v Speaker 5>lot of them took.

497
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:15.960
<v Speaker 4>Backhanders for their votes.

498
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.359
<v Speaker 5>So I remember thinking, this is just truly awful for

499
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:20.839
<v Speaker 5>a game.

500
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.119
<v Speaker 4>And then obviously it changed and Fantino came in. I

501
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:25.559
<v Speaker 4>met him.

502
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 5>He's a nice guy. I've spent time with him, and

503
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:32.079
<v Speaker 5>I was hopeful. I was really hopeful that that this,

504
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 5>this will.

505
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:34.480
<v Speaker 4>Be a change. I don't, you know, I don't think

506
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:35.200
<v Speaker 4>for one minute.

507
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:39.039
<v Speaker 5>Now they're putting bonds to people, put you know, packets

508
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:44.279
<v Speaker 5>full of cash to get votes for the World Cup

509
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.119
<v Speaker 5>or individuals or who's going to host it. But I

510
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:52.559
<v Speaker 5>don't like the fact that that they're making that much money,

511
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.720
<v Speaker 5>and I don't see why they need to do that

512
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.559
<v Speaker 5>because they.

513
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.160
<v Speaker 4>You know, yes, it goes back into the game. But

514
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:00.759
<v Speaker 4>does it does it?

515
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 5>We don't really know. It's all a little bit secretive

516
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 5>in the Swiss banks, so it concerns me. But the

517
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:17.400
<v Speaker 5>sport itself is good. It's but I.

518
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 4>Think it's the same in all things, isn't it.

519
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.480
<v Speaker 5>It's like if you look even if you look at

520
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.200
<v Speaker 5>politics across the world, and then the example of this

521
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.160
<v Speaker 5>World Cup where all fans come together and actually we just.

522
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:28.000
<v Speaker 4>Want to get on. I think ninety percent of the

523
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 4>world just want to have a life.

524
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.680
<v Speaker 5>They want to be able to afford to eat, they

525
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:33.839
<v Speaker 5>want to have a nice home and just get on

526
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:34.240
<v Speaker 5>with it.

527
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.720
<v Speaker 4>And I think, actually, we really like each other all all.

528
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.440
<v Speaker 5>But it's the people at the top, the leaders, the

529
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:43.039
<v Speaker 5>leaders of whether it's governments or FIFA, they just don't

530
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:43.880
<v Speaker 5>seem to get that.

531
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:44.359
<v Speaker 4>It's all.

532
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.119
<v Speaker 5>I don't know whether it's greed or it's ego or

533
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.240
<v Speaker 5>whatever it is, but I find it very depressing, you.

534
00:25:51.319 --> 00:26:01.400
<v Speaker 6>Too, Pard they ever Marria is brought to you by Helix.

535
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536
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538
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539
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540
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541
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.359
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542
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543
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544
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545
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546
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547
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548
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549
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550
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551
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552
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:45.440
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553
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.599
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554
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555
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556
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.519
<v Speaker 2>One challenge we've had here in the US is sports gambling.

557
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.039
<v Speaker 2>It's really exploded in the US and twenty eighteen there

558
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.839
<v Speaker 2>was a Supreme Court ruling that jasonally opened up sports

559
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.680
<v Speaker 2>gambling and all sorts of states. A lot of sports league,

560
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.279
<v Speaker 2>the professional leagues have embraced gambling and the money it

561
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:17.640
<v Speaker 2>brings in. But now, like no surprise, we're seeing indictments

562
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and players getting charged with like illegal betting schemes and

563
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:24.160
<v Speaker 2>point shaving and YadA, YadA YadA. Do you worry about

564
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 2>the impact of sports betting on the integrity of professional soccer?

565
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.160
<v Speaker 2>It seems a lot harder to fix a soccer game

566
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:30.759
<v Speaker 2>than it is to do like an over under on

567
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>like free throws made.

568
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 4>It's difficult.

569
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:35.400
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to be naive here and say it

570
00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:38.079
<v Speaker 5>doesn't go on, because I think there are things and

571
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.200
<v Speaker 5>with things have been proven and you know, you can

572
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 5>bet on absolutely almost anything now and we've had betting

573
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.359
<v Speaker 5>in our country for a long time, but you can

574
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.000
<v Speaker 5>you can bet on how many corners and whether a

575
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 5>player is going to get a yellow card, and that

576
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.200
<v Speaker 5>opens up that opens it up to you know, possible

577
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 5>dodgy goings on, So that concerns me overall. At the

578
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:05.680
<v Speaker 5>top level, players earn so much money that I don't

579
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:10.279
<v Speaker 5>think there will obviously be the odd exception. I don't

580
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:14.160
<v Speaker 5>think players will be bought, but it is a worry

581
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 5>for me. I mean, people can have a bet. I

582
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 5>don't know, probably if somebody wants to bet on something.

583
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 5>But what I don't like is the attitude of the

584
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.400
<v Speaker 5>betting companies and the way they entice your I don't

585
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.240
<v Speaker 5>know whether it's the same in America, but you know

586
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:31.160
<v Speaker 5>in England they'll entice them in with a very attractive

587
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:36.720
<v Speaker 5>looking bet, you know, like Belgium to beat USA twenty

588
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:37.119
<v Speaker 5>to one.

589
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 4>I don't know how you do the odds in this country,

590
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:40.200
<v Speaker 4>and then they'll get them in.

591
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.920
<v Speaker 5>But to do that bet, which is going to win,

592
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:47.640
<v Speaker 5>you've got to get an account and so then you

593
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 5>they're in, and once they're in, I mean it ruins

594
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:52.519
<v Speaker 5>their life. I think Killing and bat Play speak out

595
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:58.680
<v Speaker 5>against the gambling culture around football, and I absolutely totally

596
00:28:58.759 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 5>agree with him.

597
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.039
<v Speaker 4>I don't have on the rest is football.

598
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 1>That I do.

599
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:09.279
<v Speaker 5>We've always refused gambling adverts. For example, I won't I

600
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:12.440
<v Speaker 5>won't get involved in that. So yeah, I think it

601
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.480
<v Speaker 5>is a concern and it's something that we really need

602
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.119
<v Speaker 5>to keep an eye on.

603
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I especially worry about how seamless and easy

604
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.160
<v Speaker 2>it's become to just lay bet after bet after a

605
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.839
<v Speaker 2>bet from your phone on your couch, like there's no friction.

606
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 1>There's no book ei, there's no casino, there's no nothing.

607
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.680
<v Speaker 1>You're just going like this.

608
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:32.400
<v Speaker 5>It's it's it's terrifying because it's it's so addictive as well,

609
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:33.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean very fine.

610
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 4>When I talk to people that.

611
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 5>Work with people in various addictions, whether it's you know, alcohol, drugs,

612
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.920
<v Speaker 5>they say the hardest one to kick is the gambling addiction.

613
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>As a broadcaster, after your career, I mean, you've been

614
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.680
<v Speaker 2>outspoken about a number of issues including you know, immigration rights,

615
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.319
<v Speaker 2>the war in Gaza. I know that the BBC or

616
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.759
<v Speaker 2>former employer didn't always love you talking about issues that

617
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:58.039
<v Speaker 2>were not soccer. In the US, athletes are often scolded

618
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 2>for having political opinions or talking about social issues. Fox

619
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:04.880
<v Speaker 2>News host famously told Lebron James to shut up and dribble,

620
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:06.599
<v Speaker 2>which is a very nice way to talk to someone.

621
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:09.680
<v Speaker 2>How did you think about when in how to speak

622
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.400
<v Speaker 2>out and about what issues?

623
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.599
<v Speaker 5>I think it came with social media because so suddenly

624
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:18.799
<v Speaker 5>you get a platform, whereas before social media, unless you're

625
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.960
<v Speaker 5>asked in the occasional interview, which I was occasionally about

626
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.279
<v Speaker 5>certain things outside of football, you don't really get the

627
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 5>opportunity to share your views. I've always felt strongly and

628
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.079
<v Speaker 5>tried to, you know, stand up for humanitarian rights, et cetera.

629
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:42.319
<v Speaker 5>So I think it's I understand why most sports people

630
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 5>don't get involved, because.

631
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:45.599
<v Speaker 4>You do get a lot of shit when you do it.

632
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 5>I got that as well, but it's generally shipped from

633
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.480
<v Speaker 5>people with some kind of vested interest in the opposite

634
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.160
<v Speaker 5>view to that you've got. And it's generally from the

635
00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 5>people that clam go on and on and on about

636
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.480
<v Speaker 5>free speech. There's you know, where there's free speech, But

637
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 5>as soon as you do it as a sportsperson, oh no,

638
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.000
<v Speaker 5>you stick to you stick to talking about football, right,

639
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:11.960
<v Speaker 5>We don't want to hear your political opinions.

640
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.920
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, I suppose I got.

641
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.440
<v Speaker 5>I started voicing my concerns about various things on social

642
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.359
<v Speaker 5>media and it went from from there.

643
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:27.440
<v Speaker 4>Really. But I just sometimes if I see something where

644
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.079
<v Speaker 4>I think there's a dreadful wrong going on, I just.

645
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.559
<v Speaker 5>Feel the need to speak up about it, And I

646
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.559
<v Speaker 5>understand why some people don't because it can make your

647
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:37.559
<v Speaker 5>life very difficult.

648
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 4>But for me, I the only person you can control

649
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:41.440
<v Speaker 4>really is yourself.

650
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

651
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 5>You know, if you go home at the end of

652
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 5>the day and look yourself in the mirror and you think, Okay,

653
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:48.839
<v Speaker 5>I did the right thing today, it probably doesn't make

654
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:53.920
<v Speaker 5>any difference to anybody, but you've got to live with yourself.

655
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I think it makes a difference. Listen.

656
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.440
<v Speaker 2>I think it's we live in a world where people

657
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.039
<v Speaker 2>are very cynical, and when they see someone they know

658
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and they trust because they've watched you on TV for

659
00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:05.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty years talking.

660
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:06.480
<v Speaker 1>About the war and Gaza, for example.

661
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.279
<v Speaker 2>I think that matters, and it makes people think about

662
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 2>stuff they might otherwise not have thought about and not

663
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 2>have heard about. But also, you know, back to our

664
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.319
<v Speaker 2>conversation about like the friction free gambling and the ease

665
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.200
<v Speaker 2>of social media, I know it makes it like almost

666
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.279
<v Speaker 2>too easy to speak out on things sometimes, Like I

667
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.200
<v Speaker 2>know you had an incident where you shared a video

668
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:26.559
<v Speaker 2>that included some offensive imagery. You deleted it, you unreservedly apologize.

669
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:28.640
<v Speaker 2>You said it was a mistake, you didn't see you know,

670
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 2>the image in there, you never would have shared. But like,

671
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.839
<v Speaker 2>did that make you feel like chastened and want to

672
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.359
<v Speaker 2>retreat from conversations or how did you deal with that?

673
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.680
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I had a few incidents over my career

674
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:46.000
<v Speaker 5>with BBC because they have this partiality rules that actually

675
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.640
<v Speaker 5>didn't apply to people outside of news and current affairs.

676
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 5>But then they moved, they moved the goalposts and made

677
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.920
<v Speaker 5>it true for everyone. But I'd also got into the

678
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.039
<v Speaker 5>habit thing, so I'd had a couple of fall outs

679
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.440
<v Speaker 5>with them prior, and I always felt I was in

680
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:04.960
<v Speaker 5>the right on those. But the last one that kind

681
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.720
<v Speaker 5>of made my decision to leave the BBC a little

682
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 5>bit earlier, was that genuinely concerned because that was, you know,

683
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:19.440
<v Speaker 5>absolutely an honest era. You know, I was posting something

684
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:24.079
<v Speaker 5>and there was a little tiny rat emoji on the post,

685
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 5>which I genuinely didn't see.

686
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I am stupid, but I'm not that stupid

687
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:31.519
<v Speaker 4>enough to have posted that deliberately.

688
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.599
<v Speaker 5>And you know, I was made aware that it's apparently

689
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.480
<v Speaker 5>some kind of anti Semitic trope. Although you know, why

690
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 5>rodents would ever be compared with human beings, I don't know,

691
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 5>but obviously as soon as I was aware of it,

692
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:47.839
<v Speaker 5>I took it straight down and I apologize but I

693
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:51.000
<v Speaker 5>felt bad about that because that was my fault. I

694
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 5>should have been more vigilant and I should have seen it,

695
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 5>but I didn't. But as soon as I did, I

696
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:58.240
<v Speaker 5>took it down. So that wasn't easy.

697
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.559
<v Speaker 4>That was a tough few days because I I wasn't

698
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:01.839
<v Speaker 4>pleased with myself on that one.

699
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:06.039
<v Speaker 5>But it's one of those things, and sometimes things happen

700
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.000
<v Speaker 5>for a reason. I think I've been at the BBC

701
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:11.440
<v Speaker 5>for thirty years and it's like a long marriage. In

702
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 5>the end, you gently fool life, you go your separate

703
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:16.360
<v Speaker 5>wady to move on.

704
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>There Sometimes last question about like social issues in soccer.

705
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's just a shocking amount of racism in

706
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 2>international soccer. I mean, earlier this week, a senator in

707
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Paraguay tweeted, like some vile stuff about a Chilian and Bappe, who,

708
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.840
<v Speaker 2>for those who don't know, is this unbelievably good guy.

709
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:34.719
<v Speaker 2>He's the best player on the French team. He's one

710
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 2>of the best in the world. Like I don't it's

711
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.039
<v Speaker 2>hard not to like him. But she's like been this

712
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:40.559
<v Speaker 2>ongoing fight with him now. A couple of years ago,

713
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.760
<v Speaker 2>England lost in the finals of the European championship game

714
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.079
<v Speaker 2>and then three black players on the team were subjected

715
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:51.239
<v Speaker 2>with this deluge of racist abuse on social media.

716
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:52.920
<v Speaker 1>And I know FIFA has like.

717
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Run all these kind of anti racism campaigns, but you

718
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.039
<v Speaker 2>see critics say, like it's really just marketing, it's not substance.

719
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Do you think there's there's more that FIFA International Football

720
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>should do to kind of punish and prevent this behavior.

721
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:07.360
<v Speaker 4>I think they.

722
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.199
<v Speaker 5>Genuinely do try to be honest and there will be

723
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 5>supportive on I can speak for the Premier League. I

724
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.280
<v Speaker 5>think they do a lot of good in this area,

725
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:19.800
<v Speaker 5>and it's not just performative stuff that they do, some

726
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 5>really important things.

727
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:21.840
<v Speaker 4>I think.

728
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.320
<v Speaker 5>Unfortunately, and as we see a lot in the world nowadays,

729
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:28.960
<v Speaker 5>there will always be isolated attacks on people.

730
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.440
<v Speaker 4>You talked about the Paraguay and senator.

731
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:35.320
<v Speaker 5>I believe that cast abuse on killing them up in

732
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.960
<v Speaker 5>it was outrageously racist.

733
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.239
<v Speaker 4>I wasn't even trying to hide it.

734
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.239
<v Speaker 5>And then he responded and then she responded again, claiming

735
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.760
<v Speaker 5>to be the victim, and it was quite absurd. So

736
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 5>and you talked about the three penalty takers through it,

737
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.159
<v Speaker 5>and you know that's a load of people on social media,

738
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 5>as we all know.

739
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:57.280
<v Speaker 4>I don't think they were view shared by the vast majority.

740
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:01.639
<v Speaker 5>But there is an issue not just in sport, but

741
00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 5>in every walk of life in terms of racism. And

742
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.199
<v Speaker 5>again I'll go to the sometimes the people at the top,

743
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.559
<v Speaker 5>the people in our governments.

744
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:14.679
<v Speaker 4>Do they do it? Do they do enough? You know?

745
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.519
<v Speaker 4>Is it a football issue or is it a societal issue?

746
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.760
<v Speaker 5>I think it's the latter, and it's you know, you

747
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.000
<v Speaker 5>just need more from your governments, and you need them

748
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:25.119
<v Speaker 5>to set a good example, not a bad example.

749
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well you're not getting a lot of help from

750
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.119
<v Speaker 2>the United States on that rightday. I have to agree

751
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:33.360
<v Speaker 2>with you, indeed, not sending our best. It's over in

752
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:43.199
<v Speaker 2>the US. Pads in America is brought to you by Smalls.

753
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Smalls makes fresh human grade food for cats. It's made

754
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 2>from the same stuff you or I would eat, but

755
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.599
<v Speaker 2>formulated specifically to help cats thrive. Cats are obligate carnivores

756
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 2>who need lots of real meat to stay healthy. But

757
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.480
<v Speaker 2>most cat foods out there use meat byproducts and cut

758
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.440
<v Speaker 2>their food with cheap grains, fillers, and artificial ingredients. Basically,

759
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.519
<v Speaker 2>it's full of stuff that isn't great for your cat.

760
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.079
<v Speaker 2>So just the big pet food companies can save a.

761
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Couple of bucks.

762
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Smalls is different their fresh recipes or over eighty percent

763
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>animal protein. Then they never use fillers or artificial ingredients.

764
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Their food is so healthy that eighty eight percent of

765
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.039
<v Speaker 2>cat parents say that after feeding Smalls they notice that

766
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.840
<v Speaker 2>their cat is better digestion and softer and shinier and

767
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:19.880
<v Speaker 2>has more energy to play.

768
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 3>Because it's actually good for cats.

769
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:24.000
<v Speaker 2>If you want to invest in your cat's health, Smalls

770
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:26.320
<v Speaker 2>is giving you sixty percent off your cat's first order,

771
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.719
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772
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:32.360
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773
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.800
<v Speaker 2>off your first order plus free shipping and free treats

774
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:38.039
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775
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.159
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's do some fun stuff to end this.

776
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:46.880
<v Speaker 1>So back to the World Cup.

777
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>France looks unstoppable, Spain has unbelievable talent. I got to

778
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.239
<v Speaker 2>see them in person against Austria here in La Argentina

779
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.679
<v Speaker 2>has messy, Norway has holland England is stacked. We'll recording

780
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.320
<v Speaker 2>this Friday before the Spain belt some game. But at

781
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.039
<v Speaker 2>the moment, who do you think is best position to

782
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 2>win this thing.

783
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:09.000
<v Speaker 4>When is this guying out? When he was Sunday drop Sunday.

784
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 4>So I'm going to look a fool there.

785
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:15.159
<v Speaker 1>Both of us. Yeah, I put it to Morocco is

786
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:16.599
<v Speaker 1>going to win it all, so I'll start it.

787
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:17.719
<v Speaker 6>Well.

788
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, good, we do know that result, which we've already

789
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 4>had that one.

790
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:22.239
<v Speaker 6>So I.

791
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 5>Can't see Belgium living with Spain. I think Spain with

792
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:29.800
<v Speaker 5>that relatively comfortably.

793
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.960
<v Speaker 4>Then I go England Norway. It sounds like England should

794
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.280
<v Speaker 4>win easily, but Norway going to be tough.

795
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, he's he's like a horse there.

796
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.360
<v Speaker 5>He's the most Viking looking guy I've ever seen in

797
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 5>my life, and he's a great guy.

798
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 4>I know Erling really well.

799
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:53.639
<v Speaker 5>I've interviewed him a few times and he's got a

800
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:54.880
<v Speaker 5>lovely sense of humor.

801
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.119
<v Speaker 4>Boy can he play? Can he finish?

802
00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.280
<v Speaker 5>I mean he just scores goals, so he's going to

803
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.880
<v Speaker 5>if we If England can stop him, they'll have a

804
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:03.360
<v Speaker 5>good chance.

805
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 4>I think England have to be slight faces. I'm going

806
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:06.079
<v Speaker 4>to go with England.

807
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:10.360
<v Speaker 5>I can't not go with as an Englishman myself, but

808
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.360
<v Speaker 5>you know, I've I just want it happened in my

809
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 5>I was too young to remember nineteen sixty six when

810
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.039
<v Speaker 5>England won the World Cup for the for the only time.

811
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:20.480
<v Speaker 4>So I've suffered so many times.

812
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:22.360
<v Speaker 5>I just want, I just want us to win it

813
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:27.719
<v Speaker 5>before I die, just once, just once, please, So But yeah,

814
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:29.400
<v Speaker 5>so I'll go England and then.

815
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.320
<v Speaker 4>I think Argentina should beat Switch.

816
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:33.920
<v Speaker 5>I think Switzerland done really well to get to the

817
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.280
<v Speaker 5>quart finals, but I think I think their time is

818
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 5>probably and the Little Fellas just too.

819
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Good mess, too good.

820
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Everyone in Boston where I'm from, fell in love with

821
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the Scottish fans. You know, they were singing at Fenway Park,

822
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>they were out there drinking the bars, you know, out

823
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:50.159
<v Speaker 2>of beer.

824
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:52.559
<v Speaker 1>Were they that lovable when you were playing against them?

825
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:54.880
<v Speaker 1>The Tartan Army, were they?

826
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.320
<v Speaker 4>Fuck? They was horrendous.

827
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:03.119
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but they don't like us very much. I mean,

828
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.480
<v Speaker 5>I think they've probably got good reason but from him

829
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:12.119
<v Speaker 5>in history. But no, they they were tough to play against.

830
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:16.719
<v Speaker 5>But it's the weird thing is as English, we actually

831
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.400
<v Speaker 5>really enjoyed what Scotland were doing, the fans stuff, and

832
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:22.679
<v Speaker 5>I genuinely wanted, we genuinely want them to do well.

833
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:26.440
<v Speaker 5>The opposite is true for them. They desperately want us

834
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 5>to lose every single time we play. So but their

835
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 5>fans were made their fans. I think they won the

836
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:35.920
<v Speaker 5>World Cup of the Fan World.

837
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.320
<v Speaker 4>Cup, didn't they?

838
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:36.639
<v Speaker 1>I think?

839
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:39.719
<v Speaker 5>But you know, but then you got the Japanese and

840
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:43.480
<v Speaker 5>the Mexicans were incredible. English I mean all the English

841
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:47.920
<v Speaker 5>fans were slightly apprehensive about going to Mexico City with

842
00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.800
<v Speaker 5>Mexico's fans, and they all were a little bit nervous,

843
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 5>but every single one of them has come away saying

844
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:56.679
<v Speaker 5>how amazing it was, how wonderful the Mexican fans were,

845
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.639
<v Speaker 5>how they treated English fans, how they all holgd together

846
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 5>on the final whistle, even despite that extraordinary game, where

847
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 5>and Mexico played so well with great heart, and it

848
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:11.239
<v Speaker 5>was and that for me is the most beautiful thing

849
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:12.960
<v Speaker 5>about this competition.

850
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:13.800
<v Speaker 1>It really was.

851
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:15.199
<v Speaker 2>There was an amazing image of that. I think it

852
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.039
<v Speaker 2>was a bunch of fans from Columbia. I think when

853
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.280
<v Speaker 2>they played Dr Congo and there was one guy from

854
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:25.039
<v Speaker 2>the Congo in this giant sea of yellow jerseys holding

855
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.039
<v Speaker 2>up his phone, singing his national anthem by himself, and

856
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.360
<v Speaker 2>everyone respectfully kept quiet, and they are jumped and hugged

857
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 2>him after and it was just you know, the beautiful.

858
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:34.000
<v Speaker 5>Market, some of those things. I mean, they could teach

859
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:36.239
<v Speaker 5>us all the lessons. Can football save the world?

860
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.519
<v Speaker 2>Hey, hey, I think you're working on it over there,

861
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.519
<v Speaker 2>col Hanger. You played your whole career without getting a

862
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:44.079
<v Speaker 2>single yellow or a red car.

863
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:45.079
<v Speaker 3>And how is that possible?

864
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:46.840
<v Speaker 4>I never tackled anyone.

865
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, when I played, it was they didn't dish out

866
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.480
<v Speaker 5>yellow cards like they quite as theatrically and quite as

867
00:41:58.519 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 5>frequently as they do now.

868
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.599
<v Speaker 4>So there was a degree of that. But having said that,

869
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.679
<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure there's anyone else done it. But it

870
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:06.840
<v Speaker 4>was mad. Really, I don't know.

871
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.840
<v Speaker 5>I haven't got temper. I haven't I don't really have

872
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:12.960
<v Speaker 5>a temper. So I was never gonna, you know, lambaster referee.

873
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:15.880
<v Speaker 5>I could winge a little bit, but just I didn't

874
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:20.639
<v Speaker 5>call them any terrible names. And I wasn't overly physical

875
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.480
<v Speaker 5>as a player, and I got kicked a lot. But

876
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.079
<v Speaker 5>the thing is, you know, can that make that can

877
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:29.639
<v Speaker 5>make you angry sometimes, But the truth is the only

878
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.400
<v Speaker 5>time it really makes you angry is when it hurts

879
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.320
<v Speaker 5>a lot and you're laying on the floor for a minute,

880
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.800
<v Speaker 5>and by the time for the time you've been treated,

881
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.079
<v Speaker 5>you're okay again. Your temper's like gone down. Yeah, a

882
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:41.880
<v Speaker 5>variety of reasons, but it is a bit mad. I

883
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:43.920
<v Speaker 5>didn't even think about it until near the end of

884
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.440
<v Speaker 5>my career and people started saying, he's never been booked,

885
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:48.880
<v Speaker 5>he's never had a yellow card, and then I started

886
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:52.039
<v Speaker 5>to think, you know, it was in my mind a

887
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.559
<v Speaker 5>little bit on occasions, and I just thought, maybe my

888
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.800
<v Speaker 5>last ever game. I remember playing my last match, I

889
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.880
<v Speaker 5>was thinking, maybe I should just punch around.

890
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 1>To go ahead in the blaze of glory, just beat

891
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:03.239
<v Speaker 1>the goalie.

892
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly.

893
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Actual, I wouldn't mess with the goalies. Those guys look

894
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.719
<v Speaker 1>like Jesus Chraig. Yeah.

895
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I was told to ask about the closest you ever

896
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.880
<v Speaker 2>came to getting carted. I don't know if that's a

897
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.360
<v Speaker 2>story there.

898
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:15.719
<v Speaker 4>I was in that was in Spain.

899
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:18.719
<v Speaker 5>Funny enough, I was very He went through his pocket

900
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 5>and and my offense was laughing at his decision.

901
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.000
<v Speaker 4>He made a ridiculous decision.

902
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.519
<v Speaker 5>I just burst its laughter and he went with the

903
00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 5>pocket and I said to him, you're going to give

904
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:32.199
<v Speaker 5>me a yellow card for laughing, And he put his

905
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:33.320
<v Speaker 5>hand back and that was it.

906
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Just laughing in his face.

907
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:37.639
<v Speaker 4>I was just I was just laughing out loud, not

908
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.000
<v Speaker 4>in his face. Oh, I was just laughing.

909
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Absurd decision, that sounds fun. I love when the refs

910
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:45.239
<v Speaker 2>get pissy. You know, you can tell when they have

911
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.360
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of an ego. You played in the

912
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.599
<v Speaker 2>infamous or famous, just famous Hand of God game against

913
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Diego Maradonna in the nineteen eighty six World Cup.

914
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell listeners who might.

915
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Be unfamiliar with that game just a bit about what

916
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.159
<v Speaker 2>happened in Maradonna Because it's like it is, it was

917
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:01.119
<v Speaker 2>famous game in history.

918
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.239
<v Speaker 4>I kind of feel like it is. I I think

919
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:03.519
<v Speaker 4>it is.

920
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:09.760
<v Speaker 5>I think because of a variety of reasons. Four years

921
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.199
<v Speaker 5>previously the two countries were at war with the Falklands

922
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:20.119
<v Speaker 5>or Malvinas as they call it, so that had an effect,

923
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.760
<v Speaker 5>and then it was built up before because of this

924
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.320
<v Speaker 5>that you know, our Argentina going to revenge England's war victory,

925
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:31.599
<v Speaker 5>if you like to call it that. So that was

926
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.800
<v Speaker 5>a big deal, and they had the Argentinian side had

927
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.880
<v Speaker 5>Diego Maradonna, who was the greatest football that I certainly

928
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.199
<v Speaker 5>played against that played with him once as well.

929
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:47.679
<v Speaker 4>He was the best of his time is In terms

930
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:48.639
<v Speaker 4>for me, the best.

931
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:53.000
<v Speaker 5>Players ever have been two two Argentinians and a Brazilian

932
00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:55.280
<v Speaker 5>Pele Maradonna, and now Messi.

933
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Messi for me beats them all. But and who was

934
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:01.239
<v Speaker 4>playing in this game?

935
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:05.679
<v Speaker 5>And it was pretty awful first half for the most

936
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:09.280
<v Speaker 5>famous game in history, but the second half kind.

937
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 4>Of heated up a bit.

938
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.079
<v Speaker 5>The ball lumped into the air and Diego went said

939
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:15.920
<v Speaker 5>had it, But in the end he punched it over

940
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.440
<v Speaker 5>our goalkeeper's head. Now now I hate them when it's

941
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.280
<v Speaker 5>done to our game, but I could have done with

942
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.000
<v Speaker 5>it that day. So he punched it in and there

943
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:29.440
<v Speaker 5>was obviously there's huge ramifications for that. And then just

944
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.440
<v Speaker 5>a few minutes later he scored what I think is

945
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:35.880
<v Speaker 5>the greatest goal that's ever been scored in the football match.

946
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.440
<v Speaker 4>I've seen couple of similons.

947
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:40.760
<v Speaker 5>Messi scored one very similar, but you have to take

948
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.079
<v Speaker 5>into account this was a quarter final of a World

949
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.840
<v Speaker 5>Cup in Mexico City, in the Azteca, with these two

950
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.239
<v Speaker 5>huge countries and Diego doing what he did was It's

951
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:53.039
<v Speaker 5>the one time where I was on a pitch and

952
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:56.119
<v Speaker 5>somebody did something on the opposite side where I felt

953
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:59.360
<v Speaker 5>I ought to applaud I didn't because that would not

954
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 5>have gone down very well at home.

955
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.119
<v Speaker 4>And then after that, I scored the goal that no

956
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:04.920
<v Speaker 4>one remembers.

957
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Actually, there you go, there you go my proof.

958
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:13.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I I scored my head.

959
00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:15.960
<v Speaker 5>And then in the very last seconds of the game,

960
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:19.440
<v Speaker 5>a ball came across again from John Barnes, our left winger,

961
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.639
<v Speaker 5>who made a massive difference in the game, flipped it over.

962
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:24.320
<v Speaker 4>I was coming at the flopper. I knew I was

963
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:25.440
<v Speaker 4>going to score, and.

964
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:28.559
<v Speaker 5>From somewhere a lot of good chair their their left

965
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.599
<v Speaker 5>back came up and it hit the back of his

966
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 5>head and went out. So that was yeah, which you know,

967
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:38.760
<v Speaker 5>I'm almost over it now, it's only it's only forty years.

968
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Does it still hurt to have lost? Or it's just

969
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 1>cool to have been a part of history.

970
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:46.840
<v Speaker 4>And it's cool to have been a part of that. Yeah, history,

971
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.519
<v Speaker 4>that's I'd still would have preferred.

972
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:49.880
<v Speaker 3>To have won you.

973
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Yes, folks should go on YouTube and check out

974
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.079
<v Speaker 2>the really beautiful tribute you did to Maradona when he

975
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:55.639
<v Speaker 2>passed away.

976
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:59.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's worth watching. Would you ever run for office?

977
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:05.360
<v Speaker 4>Nope, that's the easiest question to give, asked. Nope, I'm

978
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.599
<v Speaker 4>interested I'm interested in politics, but have no interest in

979
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:09.559
<v Speaker 4>being a politician.

980
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:12.519
<v Speaker 1>What about what's his name, Bennie mcbinface, Count Binface.

981
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:13.880
<v Speaker 4>That guy keeps Count bin Face.

982
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Would we like his platform?

983
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.320
<v Speaker 4>I like his head.

984
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:20.000
<v Speaker 2>For those of you are, there's a guy who wears

985
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:22.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of dressed like Star Wars and wears a trash

986
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.280
<v Speaker 2>can on his head, and he runs in every special election.

987
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he runs everywhere. He's every kind of by election

988
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.159
<v Speaker 5>that he'll turn up. But normally there's a load of

989
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:35.079
<v Speaker 5>other politicians as well. But it does appear that in

990
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:38.360
<v Speaker 5>this by election in Clacton, which has been completely manufactured

991
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.519
<v Speaker 5>by Nigel Farage to time distract.

992
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:44.320
<v Speaker 4>From from his murky goings on, and he's drifting.

993
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.159
<v Speaker 5>So but it doesn't look like any of the other

994
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.280
<v Speaker 5>parties in our country are going to put up a

995
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:52.000
<v Speaker 5>politician to run against him. So it might be that

996
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:56.360
<v Speaker 5>Farage runs against Count Binface, and if Count bin feds ones,

997
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:57.199
<v Speaker 5>that will be the.

998
00:47:57.280 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 4>Greatest day in political.

999
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.920
<v Speaker 1>History, the greatest. Le's make it happen.

1000
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:02.119
<v Speaker 4>Let's make it happen.

1001
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:04.840
<v Speaker 2>If, oh my god, if you Count bin Face beats

1002
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Nigel Farage, I will laugh so hard. It would be

1003
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:09.360
<v Speaker 2>so much better than Liz Truss in the lettuce or

1004
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:10.039
<v Speaker 2>anything else.

1005
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:11.679
<v Speaker 4>Better.

1006
00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 1>It would final question for you.

1007
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.000
<v Speaker 2>So my buddy Roger Bennett encouraged me to be an

1008
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Everton fan a couple of years ago. I have to

1009
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 2>say it hasn't been the most fun winning experience. But

1010
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I watched the World Cup and I see that you

1011
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:27.880
<v Speaker 2>know the England goalie who plays for Everton, Jordan Pickford,

1012
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:31.000
<v Speaker 2>playing lights out. You see former Everton players like Lukaku

1013
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:34.079
<v Speaker 2>scoring for Belgium. What what is what is Everton doing?

1014
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:35.280
<v Speaker 2>What do we need to do to get them back

1015
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:35.679
<v Speaker 2>on track?

1016
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.840
<v Speaker 5>Well, I played for Everton way back. Yeah, one year though.

1017
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.519
<v Speaker 5>It was amazing, my best season. Scored a hell of

1018
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 5>a lot of goals. Best team I've played for in

1019
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.320
<v Speaker 5>the mid eighties. They were brilliant, such a strong side.

1020
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:51.559
<v Speaker 5>You know, they've been through the mill a little bit

1021
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:54.239
<v Speaker 5>and things haven't got happened for a long time.

1022
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:56.199
<v Speaker 4>They've picked up a.

1023
00:48:56.280 --> 00:49:00.320
<v Speaker 5>Bit of late, but yeah, it's a great football club though,

1024
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:03.159
<v Speaker 5>and that's what supporting. I'm sure it's the same in

1025
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:07.280
<v Speaker 5>American sports, you know, the suffering makes it, The awful

1026
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.239
<v Speaker 5>times make the good times better.

1027
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.360
<v Speaker 4>As long as you do get some good times at

1028
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:11.840
<v Speaker 4>some point.

1029
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I gotta tell you, as a Red Sox fan,

1030
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:16.719
<v Speaker 2>we were like the lovable losers for years and years

1031
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 2>and years. The fieldser's a kid to how England feels

1032
00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:21.719
<v Speaker 2>about winning a World Cup. And then we started winning

1033
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.000
<v Speaker 2>everything and there's a bit of you that misses the

1034
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:26.679
<v Speaker 2>hurt and misses the underdog, and now everyone just hates us,

1035
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:26.960
<v Speaker 2>you know.

1036
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well that's what happens when you get successful. So

1037
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:30.400
<v Speaker 4>what do you want?

1038
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:33.159
<v Speaker 5>You want to be successful when trophies have loads of joy,

1039
00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 5>or do you want to everyone to hate you?

1040
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:36.760
<v Speaker 6>It?

1041
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Really it's a tough goal. I think the former.

1042
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.199
<v Speaker 4>I agree, Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

1043
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Last last question is playing in Barcelona or playing and

1044
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.639
<v Speaker 2>spaying the most fun thing in the world that seems

1045
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:48.039
<v Speaker 2>so cool.

1046
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:51.440
<v Speaker 4>Playing for Barcelon is amazing. I mean, I was there

1047
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:57.440
<v Speaker 4>for three years. It's it's a monstrously big football club.

1048
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.440
<v Speaker 5>It's a bit of a madhouse, but it's so special,

1049
00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:05.599
<v Speaker 5>and especially when you play those games against Real Madrid.

1050
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:08.320
<v Speaker 5>Let's we call them the Classic Coast. I mean, it's

1051
00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:11.119
<v Speaker 5>like it's nothing you can imagine. The first one I

1052
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.960
<v Speaker 5>ever played in I scored hat trick, scored three goals,

1053
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:15.079
<v Speaker 5>in the game and we won.

1054
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:17.039
<v Speaker 4>We won three two, and there were.

1055
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:19.800
<v Speaker 5>One hundred and twenty thousand people in the stadium and

1056
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:22.079
<v Speaker 5>every single one of them was a Barcelona fan.

1057
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:23.159
<v Speaker 4>There was no away fans.

1058
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.280
<v Speaker 5>There were no because we I don't know whether you

1059
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:28.119
<v Speaker 5>get that in New American sports, whether you get many

1060
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 5>fans that travel to watch their team play, I don't know.

1061
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:34.360
<v Speaker 5>But in England we do every you know, we're a

1062
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.480
<v Speaker 5>small country. It's quite easy to get around to be

1063
00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:39.800
<v Speaker 5>awake to the away grounds. But this was like, honestly,

1064
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:41.880
<v Speaker 5>I had scored two goals in the first five minutes.

1065
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:44.800
<v Speaker 5>I had goose bumps all over me with the noise

1066
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.639
<v Speaker 5>and that it was so special and those games are

1067
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:48.119
<v Speaker 5>so big.

1068
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.320
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, my three years there were probably the highlight

1069
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:52.320
<v Speaker 4>of mine, my career.

1070
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:53.039
<v Speaker 1>I bet you didn't.

1071
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 2>I didn't didn't pay for your own top us very

1072
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.639
<v Speaker 2>often when you went out happy fan base question.

1073
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:02.960
<v Speaker 5>They were very sweet. They were very sweet the boss.

1074
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.000
<v Speaker 5>And the weird thing is they were so respectful. They'd

1075
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.480
<v Speaker 5>never like, they wouldn't bother you too much. You know,

1076
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:12.199
<v Speaker 5>they'd see you and they'd not but they wouldn't. I mean,

1077
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:13.760
<v Speaker 5>I don't know, that's probably changed now.

1078
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:15.599
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think the camera phone changed that and

1079
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>everyone should like click click click listen, Gary, I've taken

1080
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:20.360
<v Speaker 2>up enough of your time. Thank you so much for

1081
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:22.599
<v Speaker 2>doing the show. Everyone should check out the rest is

1082
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:26.440
<v Speaker 2>football everything Goalhanger is doing. You guys make amazing shows

1083
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:28.519
<v Speaker 2>just you know, just a hit machine over there, So

1084
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:31.199
<v Speaker 2>thank you for your time. Check out the show on Netflix. Also,

1085
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:33.639
<v Speaker 2>by the way, and enjoy the rest of World Cup.

1086
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:36.159
<v Speaker 4>Thank you for the plug, and thank you for having

1087
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:37.079
<v Speaker 4>me joyed it.

1088
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Truly my pleasure.

1089
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.960
<v Speaker 7>Pods in America is a cricket media production. Our show

1090
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.360
<v Speaker 7>was produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts, and

1091
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:45.920
<v Speaker 7>Faris Safari with re Jerlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill.

1092
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.840
<v Speaker 7>Our team includes Matt de Grote, Ben Hefcote, Charlottelandis, David Toles,

1093
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.239
<v Speaker 7>Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Sengle. Our staff is

1094
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:53.360
<v Speaker 7>probably unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

1095
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:01.159
<v Speaker 6>You