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Speaker 3: Today Old ye is boot. It's showtime. People say good
Speaker 3: money to see this movie. When they go out to
Speaker 3: a theater.
Speaker 4: They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in
Speaker 4: the projection booths.
Speaker 5: Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 6: Put it off, get it over with.
Speaker 7: No, no, no, you have to show me what a
Speaker 7: tough guy you are.
Speaker 3: You're getting old.
Speaker 4: Where's the money?
Speaker 6: Without me, I'll never find it?
Speaker 5: Where's the money?
Speaker 8: Where is the boy?
Speaker 7: Thank god you came. You gotta take me with you.
Speaker 7: Don't worry, I'll pay you. You saved my life.
Speaker 4: And where's the money.
Speaker 9: Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White,
Speaker 9: Jimmy Once again is Miss Jessica Shires. Hello, Also back
Speaker 9: in the booth is mister Spencer Parsons.
Speaker 5: Hello.
Speaker 9: Our look at Western's continues with a Patreon request from
Speaker 9: our very own Jessica Shires. Deadlock released in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 9: The film was written and directed by Roland Click. It
Speaker 9: stars markwand Boehm as Kid, a mysterious figure who wanders
Speaker 9: out of the desert with a machine gun and a
Speaker 9: suitcase full of money and a forty five RPM record.
Speaker 9: He's found by the always wonderful Mario Adorff as Charles Dump,
Speaker 9: who takes the money and abandons the kid with some
Speaker 9: dire consequences. We will be spoiling this film as we
Speaker 9: discuss it, so if you don't want anything ruined, go
Speaker 9: track down the film and watch it. We will still
Speaker 9: be here. So, Jessica, when was the first time you
Speaker 9: saw Deadlock? And what did you think?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 10: I first saw this one just a couple of years ago, actually,
Speaker 10: and I'm not sure what exactly about this may me go,
Speaker 10: oh yeah, I really want to see this other than
Speaker 10: the fact that it is a euro Western. And what
Speaker 10: may surprise people who've heard me cover other things on
Speaker 10: the show before, is you know, you mostly do like
Speaker 10: sort of eurocult horror adjacent type of things.
Speaker 11: But I love westerns.
Speaker 10: I love euro westerns from the sixties and seventies particularly,
Speaker 10: so when I found out there was this West German,
Speaker 10: a lot of people referred to it in the genre
Speaker 10: of acid westerns, so I was kind of intrigued.
Speaker 11: So I checked it out.
Speaker 10: Just really liked it, loved the soundtrack obviously. I really
Speaker 10: became intrigued by the director. Roland Click is a really
Speaker 10: interesting character and I'm really excited to talk about him
Speaker 10: and his career, and so, yeah, I sought out his
Speaker 10: other films after that, and yeah, I just think this
Speaker 10: movie is great fun And.
Speaker 9: Or was this the first time watched for you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the first time watch for me.
Speaker 12: As I think I mentioned previously, I'm not big on
Speaker 12: western so one thing is this is an opportunity for
Speaker 12: me to step out of comfort zone a little bit,
Speaker 12: and that was part of why I wanted.
Speaker 5: To check it out.
Speaker 12: I think it's a very interesting film. I really love
Speaker 12: the visual style of it. I mean, like that's what
Speaker 12: I'm going to go on and on about. And I
Speaker 12: love the soundtrack by Can, credited here as Duck Can
Speaker 12: the nine inch Nails.
Speaker 5: In that one episode of.
Speaker 12: Twin Peaks The Return. All the music by Duck Can
Speaker 12: is great. I actually only wish there was more. I
Speaker 12: would love, you know, more soundtracking in this movie. So
Speaker 12: I'm really really jazzed by the sights and sounds. I
Speaker 12: will say the plot and characters don't really grab me,
Speaker 12: and after a certain point, arguing about who's going to
Speaker 12: get killed over this money.
Speaker 5: Is just not my thing.
Speaker 12: But that said, this is I went to look up
Speaker 12: Click's other work because I was very intrigued by what
Speaker 12: he's up to visually.
Speaker 5: So thanks to you guys for inviting me onto this.
Speaker 12: Because he's now a project, I've got to check out
Speaker 12: these other films.
Speaker 5: That I haven't seen before.
Speaker 12: I've been aware of Supermarket and wanted to see that
Speaker 12: for some time, so now that's high on the list
Speaker 12: because I think he's pretty amazing director.
Speaker 10: He's also quite the character as well. He's still alive.
Speaker 10: He turns eighty seven years old next month. Most of
Speaker 10: his pices have he hasn't He actually hasn't. I'm sure
Speaker 10: we'll get into this slater and we'll talk more about
Speaker 10: his career, but he has not done that many feature films.
Speaker 10: He gets lumped in. I think with the new German
Speaker 10: cinema suspender. Hebdog a lot of these people, young German
Speaker 10: directors who are working around the same time, but his
Speaker 10: work is a lot different for reasons that we'll get
Speaker 10: into at some point, but I will say he does
Speaker 10: the commentaries for all I think all of his films
Speaker 10: that are commercially available on home video, and he's an
Speaker 10: incredible rack huntur. It's amazing how much he remembers from
Speaker 10: these movies. This particularly his films from the early late sixties,
Speaker 10: early seventies. He's got great stories. He's a really fun interview.
Speaker 10: You've seen the documentaries, two documentaries with him, great stuff.
Speaker 10: He's like incredible to listen to, and he's yeah, just
Speaker 10: got a million stories to tell. So I engaging with
Speaker 10: his work has been really fun.
Speaker 9: Yeah, this was the first time watched for me as well.
Speaker 9: I had this kind of on my radar for years
Speaker 9: and years, and I was just really glad, Jessica when
Speaker 9: you asked to cover this, because I was like, Okay, great,
Speaker 9: finally an excuse. I've had supermarket deadlock. I can't remember
Speaker 9: if I have White Star on DVD, but it's yeah,
Speaker 9: just give me an excuse to finally sit down and
Speaker 9: watch these movies. So it's okay, thank you so much
Speaker 9: for providing that with me and I Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 9: listen to the commentary for this. I did watch Supermarket
Speaker 9: with the not the commentary on, but I had the
Speaker 9: subtitles for the commentary, so it was nice. I was
Speaker 9: just reading what he was saying while I was watching
Speaker 9: it and listening to the original audio. It's wish they
Speaker 9: would do that for more commentaries, whether they were in
Speaker 9: English or not. Just give me the English subtitles of
Speaker 9: the commentary so I can just read along while I
Speaker 9: watch it. But yeah, it was a lot of fun,
Speaker 9: and I had a lot of fun with this movie.
Speaker 9: I agree with you, Spencer. There is a point in
Speaker 9: here where it gets a little long in the tooth.
Speaker 9: This is a very sparse film. There's only a handful
Speaker 9: of people in here. While I was watching it, I
Speaker 9: was reminded of things like cul de Sac or even
Speaker 9: Spirits of the Air, Grimlins of the Clouds, where especially
Speaker 9: that one, because it's this nouveau western in Australia and
Speaker 9: there's this threat of there's the genman who shows up
Speaker 9: at the beginning. There's a brother and sister rather than
Speaker 9: being a whatever dump is to this woman and her daughter.
Speaker 9: And then there's the threat of other gunman coming to town,
Speaker 9: and you've got this whole thing of mister Sunshine coming
Speaker 9: to town. Love these names, by the way, I love
Speaker 9: dump Kid mister Sunshine, But I have to say the mom.
Speaker 9: She's in her web three times, and I was really
Speaker 9: hoping she would be more of a presence, and instead
Speaker 9: she just like shows up here and there, and she's
Speaker 9: just wild. She looks like, I don't know Edith Massey
Speaker 9: of the Desert.
Speaker 10: Yeah, she's apparently a famous Israeli actress, and I'm sure
Speaker 10: we'll get to talking about later on about the location
Speaker 10: and things like that, but she was a local actress
Speaker 10: because it's film is shot in Israel, so she was
Speaker 10: just like like a well known actress that they probably
Speaker 10: just pulled in locally.
Speaker 12: The part, well, she has this really different energy that
Speaker 12: not only is evident however she shot, but she's also
Speaker 12: shot differently from from the other characters in the movie.
Speaker 12: She gets these big, wide angle almost directly into camera,
Speaker 12: soops moving around with her and nobody else does, and
Speaker 12: it's a kind of It's interesting because she makes an
Speaker 12: impression anyway, But then it's pretty clear that something about
Speaker 12: the way that they were working together required this other
Speaker 12: way of shooting.
Speaker 5: And I kind of love that.
Speaker 9: We can describe this as a Western, but there were
Speaker 9: moments too where I was completely thinking of a noir.
Speaker 9: This feels like this could be something that Jim Thompson
Speaker 9: could have written, where you've got these bizarro characters who
Speaker 9: are under a lot of tension. I think, especially if
Speaker 9: we had learned more of Dump's backstory to find out
Speaker 9: why the hell he's here in this mining town and
Speaker 9: what the hell's going on with this former mind. And
Speaker 9: I love when he has these moments where he's I
Speaker 9: have police authority because he's just such a The first
Speaker 9: time you see him, you get a beat on him
Speaker 9: so easily. First off, Mario Adoff has a fantastic face.
Speaker 9: I love the shape of his face. But then just
Speaker 9: to see that outfit in the big hole in his sweater,
Speaker 9: and that he is where multiple layers have closed. At
Speaker 9: one point later on in the film, he dresses up
Speaker 9: in a suit, and meanwhile, the kid is almost always
Speaker 9: in a suit, if not completely through the entire film.
Speaker 9: This light blue, powder blue suit that just gets dirtier
Speaker 9: and dirtier as we go along, so I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 9: are they going to kind of switch places? And they don't,
Speaker 9: but yeah, it's just watching the outfits that these people
Speaker 9: are wearing. It's kind of telling its own story.
Speaker 10: Just to your point about we don't get any of
Speaker 10: Dump's backstory. I think Klick has spoken in interviews about
Speaker 10: the fact that he doesn't like to over explain, and
Speaker 10: part of his approach is that he and this is
Speaker 10: something that separates him from I think the fellow German
Speaker 10: New cinema directors, is that he has approaches to engage
Speaker 10: with the audience, so he doesn't like to over explain.
Speaker 10: A lot of his endings for his films are incredibly ambiguous,
Speaker 10: this one included because he wants to have a dialogue
Speaker 10: with the audience and not just give them everything. So
Speaker 10: I think part of the reason he spoke about sort
Speaker 10: of the beginning of this film and how it's just
Speaker 10: slightly inexplicable, But I think at the same time also
Speaker 10: echoes a lot of the spaghetti westerns where someone walking
Speaker 10: through the desert, because we've got this unexplained person in
Speaker 10: a suit walking through the desert with a machine gun
Speaker 10: and a suitcase with the sun blazing down and he
Speaker 10: says nothing.
Speaker 11: You don't get dialogue.
Speaker 10: In this movie until at least quite a few minutes
Speaker 10: in and then so yes, he wants to create I
Speaker 10: think this air of for the audience to be asking
Speaker 10: themselves questions about what exactly is happening here rather than
Speaker 10: just giving you everything.
Speaker 5: It's funny.
Speaker 12: It's a very different movie, but it reminded me of
Speaker 12: the opening of Paris, Texas with Harry Dean Stanton walking
Speaker 12: out of the desert. Obviously it's a common idea to
Speaker 12: the Western but the I canography here with the suit
Speaker 12: like Harry Dean Stanton with his red hat, that creates
Speaker 12: a similar kind of man from nowhere vibe that goes
Speaker 12: to very different places in these movies.
Speaker 9: What's that kind of incongruity too, the red hat on
Speaker 9: Harry Dean Stanton versus this guy who's carrying a machine
Speaker 9: gun and a suitcase full of cash.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I just don't know guns that well.
Speaker 12: But the visual choice of this particular machine gun is
Speaker 12: great because it's very strange, cobble together looking a weapon.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Anthony Dawson's as well, is very It reminds me of
Speaker 10: the howitzer in The Great Silence, like the sort of
Speaker 10: weird gun that Silence has. It's just like sort of
Speaker 10: a hybrid of sorts.
Speaker 9: It reminded me of the gun that Colonel Mortimer uses
Speaker 9: in for a few dollars More, where you kind of
Speaker 9: put the stock on it and use it almost like
Speaker 9: a rifle when he's doing those long shots at different things.
Speaker 9: As I was, the dead shot in there, luckily, not
Speaker 9: the grade of shots in here. There's a lot of
Speaker 9: times where people should be shot but they aren't.
Speaker 12: If you bring down Western to just one historical period,
Speaker 12: I don't think that that's.
Speaker 5: I don't think that that's quite on point. And one
Speaker 5: thing you mentioned Jim Thompson.
Speaker 12: Thompson's novels often have but you know, like Savage Nights
Speaker 12: for instance, has a very you know, Western kind of
Speaker 12: flavor to it, and a number of noirs deal with
Speaker 12: rural noir gets overlaps a little bit into Western territory.
Speaker 12: But we have we really have the iconography and then
Speaker 12: extremely stripped down but a very typical kind of you know,
Speaker 12: Western setup of the lonely man walks into this place,
Speaker 12: interacts with three people who are there until a bad
Speaker 12: guy then also converges so that we can build up
Speaker 12: to a kind of final showdown. That's one of those
Speaker 12: kind of classic Western plots that then is just really
Speaker 12: reduced because we have like a Samuel Beckett style number
Speaker 12: of characters in this town, and I do think there's
Speaker 12: a beyond whatever budget issues there might be or anything else.
Speaker 12: This is definitely being played as a hyper abstracted Western,
Speaker 12: and yeah, we get trucks in place of horses, for instance,
Speaker 12: but it really is about these people introduced into a
Speaker 12: landscape together and the violence that results from that, and
Speaker 12: the abstraction is really beautiful. For the way that the
Speaker 12: camera moves with people throughout the film, Nearly every shot
Speaker 12: is beautifully choreographed, and we get such an expressive range
Speaker 12: of relationships of the camera to these characters and to
Speaker 12: the landscape and some really beautiful tricks. When I see
Speaker 12: camera moves like this, there's a part of me as
Speaker 12: a filmmaker that starts in my mind diagramming what kind
Speaker 12: of track is it, where is it?
Speaker 5: Are they using a zoom lens in the move and everything?
Speaker 12: And all those things are present, But there are a
Speaker 12: number of places in the movie whereas stripped down as
Speaker 12: everything is.
Speaker 5: I still I actually.
Speaker 12: Was wowed by going, Oh, I don't know how to
Speaker 12: diagram this.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure.
Speaker 12: The way that we're relating to the characters feel so
Speaker 12: bespoke and of its moment that it's not diagrammatic camera work.
Speaker 5: And I really appreciate that about it.
Speaker 12: I think, as I said, Click is going to be
Speaker 12: a sort of project for me, because anybody that shoots
Speaker 12: this way, I feel pretty ride or die.
Speaker 10: I think he also works narratively in a similar way
Speaker 10: because we don't I mean, yes, we know from sort
Speaker 10: of objects in the film, we can guess that it's
Speaker 10: taking place sort of in and around nineteen seventy, you know,
Speaker 10: based on the jukebox and the kind of cars we
Speaker 10: see and the clothing. You do know what time it's
Speaker 10: said in roughly, but I mean, you really it's I
Speaker 10: think it's easy to forget and I personally, I think
Speaker 10: because it channels spaghetti westerns so well, I think you
Speaker 10: sort of are able to sort of lose yourself in
Speaker 10: the fact that this could be happening in the wild West.
Speaker 10: And I think that's partially because it's so sort of
Speaker 10: you know, it is so desolate and isolated, and we
Speaker 10: have so many visual trademarks of spaghetti westerns in there
Speaker 10: as well, mingling with the sort of modern props that
Speaker 10: I think it's and I think I think this is
Speaker 10: why this film and some of clicks other works as well,
Speaker 10: because I think this is something that he works across
Speaker 10: his films, is that he he really does create like
Speaker 10: films in the zeitgeist at the time he's making them
Speaker 10: in so they always feel really fresh, like even now,
Speaker 10: because he's able to possibly sounds a little contrary, but
Speaker 10: because he's able to set them in this point of time,
Speaker 10: they somehow how he's able to make them still relevant
Speaker 10: decades later and feel interesting and fresh, whereas some films
Speaker 10: might feel dated.
Speaker 9: That's interesting With last week the show, we covered Cemetery
Speaker 9: Without Crosses, and in that the first time you see
Speaker 9: the writer, director Robert Hossain in the film, he's living
Speaker 9: in a ghost town and he's this artifact man out
Speaker 9: of time. And I would say that Dump is very
Speaker 9: similar as far as the place that he lives at
Speaker 9: is so completely run down, and I think that the
Speaker 9: production design of this shack, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 9: the shack that he lives in is so completely run down.
Speaker 9: You just see the wear and tear of the boards
Speaker 9: and everything. Everything is a mess. Stuff is just piled
Speaker 9: on top of each other. It is just absolute chaos.
Speaker 9: And he's just like, why is he even here? This
Speaker 9: is a former mind? Is he protecting the mind? Is
Speaker 9: that why he has quote unquote police authority? But you've
Speaker 9: got like these big rooms. One of the first times
Speaker 9: that we see the Daughter character, she's in this blue
Speaker 9: painted room. The windows were all smashed and broken, and
Speaker 9: then you get like she's there by a piano and
Speaker 9: it's like, what the hell is this room? What did
Speaker 9: this used to be? Was this like some sort of
Speaker 9: gathering place where these offices for the people that ran
Speaker 9: the mind? But just yeah, it is so empty. And
Speaker 9: then you get things like his friend Enzo coming through
Speaker 9: and that really beat the shit car that is completely
Speaker 9: covered in dust. I love when he's like spitting in
Speaker 9: his handkerchief and rubbing the window and everything and he's
Speaker 9: just got all that shit on his car, but especially
Speaker 9: all the crucifixes that are on the car. Okay, and
Speaker 9: that's where we really get this whole idea of the
Speaker 9: commerce stuff, because he is such a vulture when it
Speaker 9: comes to how much he's charging for things and just
Speaker 9: always trying to upsell. And he's got these dirty pictures
Speaker 9: that he's handing over to dump and just like, oh
Speaker 9: you like that? Huh yeah, how about five bucks for
Speaker 9: that kind of stuff? Oh, I'll throw it in for free.
Speaker 9: It's just a real character. And I really just how
Speaker 9: because he's only what the sixth character in here, and
Speaker 9: that's it. I think we just get six people.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 10: I just love the big the huge bag of toilet
Speaker 10: paper that he hands over, this big plastic bag like
Speaker 10: eggs and like a huge plastic bag of the toilet paper.
Speaker 12: This is among Westerns that, whether intentionally or not, feel
Speaker 12: post apocalyptic, that it's so stripped down, it's so run down.
Speaker 12: We're down to three people. Were yeah, we're like arriving
Speaker 12: with toilet paper. There's a post apocalyptic quality that then
Speaker 12: renders the money that's at the center of this so
Speaker 12: absurd What is money worth within the world as we're
Speaker 12: seeing it, What is it worth at all? Which I
Speaker 12: do think, as you know, an intentional absurdity here that
Speaker 12: they care so deeply about all this money, but within
Speaker 12: the available evidence of what this world is, how much
Speaker 12: is it worth anyway. It reminds me of some of
Speaker 12: our current billionaire class being concerned with what might happen
Speaker 12: in an apocalyptic event, and it's and the realization that, oh,
Speaker 12: their money isn't actually going to get them out of that.
Speaker 5: That even if the money allows them to survive, how
Speaker 5: long can that go on? Where is that going to go?
Speaker 12: Who will work for them when money isn't worth anything
Speaker 12: and pay is not an option? These kinds of strange things.
Speaker 12: So it takes my mind to that place, and I
Speaker 12: find it interesting. One of the repeated images of the
Speaker 12: film is this cowboy on top of you know, the building,
Speaker 12: and it has this arm that's been kind of broken
Speaker 12: and is dangling, you know, in the wind. And we
Speaker 12: come back to that a number of times. So that, Yeah,
Speaker 12: the kind of outrageous life level of desiccation to the
Speaker 12: world is something that I found absurd and fun.
Speaker 5: And one of the more compelling elements of the story.
Speaker 10: But you'll enjoy Supermarket when you get around to watching.
Speaker 10: I think he he does play around with societal issues,
Speaker 10: and I think money is definitely a theme that pops
Speaker 10: up in more than one of his films, because Supermarket
Speaker 10: is about also about giving too much away, is about
Speaker 10: money and commerce and economics and class.
Speaker 12: And I was watching a trailer earlier today and it
Speaker 12: was one of those moments of oh, supermarket.
Speaker 5: Where have you been all my life? I definitely have
Speaker 5: to see that. That trailer completely sold me.
Speaker 9: I love the dump. He's given so many opportunities to
Speaker 9: murder the kid, and he wants to murder this kid,
Speaker 9: but he just can't do it. He's given a chance
Speaker 9: with rock, he tries to with a wrench, then eventually
Speaker 9: takes the kid's gun and it's just got him to rights,
Speaker 9: but still can't do it. And then at the end
Speaker 9: it comes back to bite him in the ass when
Speaker 9: he's got the gun on mister Sunshine and he finally
Speaker 9: fucking pulls the trigger the only time he's able to
Speaker 9: pull the trigger, and the gun's empty. But it's this
Speaker 9: whole movie is him trying to work up the courage
Speaker 9: to shoot this gun. He talks so big, but he's
Speaker 9: never able to back it up with anything, even when
Speaker 9: it comes to him living with this mother and daughter,
Speaker 9: and you know, he's just pining for the starter the
Speaker 9: whole time. I don't know what kind of relationship he
Speaker 9: has with the mother, but there are I want to
Speaker 9: say that. His Friendenzo the salesman, is like, did you
Speaker 9: get with the daughter yet? It's no, not yet. So
Speaker 9: I'm still pining for her, and I'm still she's still
Speaker 9: trapes it around in her little dress. And I love
Speaker 9: that she's absolutely mute, like one of these great spaghetti
Speaker 9: western type characters where she just never is going to
Speaker 9: open up her mouth and say anything. And I kept
Speaker 9: thinking that at the end she would say so thing,
Speaker 9: but no, we never get that.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Maria Adolph really gives an amazing physical performance in this,
Speaker 10: and I think that's largely due to Click because I
Speaker 10: think this was something that was very important to him
Speaker 10: and his actors. So I think you see all of
Speaker 10: the times where he's powered in a corner, like shaking,
Speaker 10: wanting to be able to dispose of the kid, like
Speaker 10: to get rid of him, but he just can't do it,
Speaker 10: or when he's about to shoot Sunshine and just be's
Speaker 10: standing there, his hand is, he's got the gun pointing
Speaker 10: at him and he's shaking. He's just like he's fundamentally
Speaker 10: quite a weak character, and I think that's why eventually
Speaker 10: he's spoiler alert, he's the first to be dispatched, because
Speaker 10: he just doesn't have this sort of backbone that I
Speaker 10: think the Kid and Sunshine have to just be able to,
Speaker 10: you know, ruthlessly go after this money at all costs.
Speaker 9: And he's such a welcome presence. He is one of
Speaker 9: these actors that I mostly associate with spaghetti western, so
Speaker 9: he's done a whole lot more. But it's funny because,
Speaker 9: again going back to last week's film, Robert Hossain worked
Speaker 9: with him quite a few times, including a Taste of
Speaker 9: Violence from I Think sixty one, where he is playing
Speaker 9: a Mexican character, as is every pretty much everybody in
Speaker 9: that movie. He has this kind of international quality to
Speaker 9: him where he can play different ethnicities, but he no
Speaker 9: matter what he's playing, he just always has this great
Speaker 9: presence to him. Like I said, that jaw is just
Speaker 9: it's a wonderful thing that he has. I was curious,
Speaker 9: did you guys watch the English dub of this or
Speaker 9: the German dub dub of it?
Speaker 12: I watched the English, which was interesting, and then I realized, oh,
Speaker 12: maybe I should have watched the German because but then again,
Speaker 12: you know, when you're in the land of this is
Speaker 12: maybe not a spaghetti Western, but it's more like a
Speaker 12: Specsla Western or something when you're in that zone. I
Speaker 12: don't think it's necessarily in authoruthentic to watch the English
Speaker 12: dub because this is one of those things that's kind of,
Speaker 12: you know, part of the deal in producing them.
Speaker 5: It's an intention. But I rather liked the performances in
Speaker 5: the English dubbing.
Speaker 10: I watched the Germans. I actually haven't watched the English,
Speaker 10: just didn't get around to it. All of this is
Speaker 10: recorded posts like his movies are all posts like many were,
Speaker 10: especially spaghetti Western. So yes, there they may have different qualities,
Speaker 10: but in essentially there is there is no version with
Speaker 10: the original sound. Even in German mockwart Bohm was dubbed
Speaker 10: by another actor. Obviously, Anthony Dawson is going to be dubbed.
Speaker 10: I don't know if he did his original voice in
Speaker 10: the English dub. I'm suddenly curious about that. But and
Speaker 10: I don't know if Audorff did.
Speaker 11: I think he did.
Speaker 10: It sounds like him, but yeah, yeah, it's because there
Speaker 10: is everything is and again, for this was something that
Speaker 10: Click like to do. Is he actually liked to put
Speaker 10: things together, the audio together and posts because he liked
Speaker 10: to create what it called like a music konkrete, the sound,
Speaker 10: the ambient sounds, and he often when he goes through
Speaker 10: the commentaries pointing out like, oh yeah, that truck sound
Speaker 10: is great. Oh I love the sound here that we did,
Speaker 10: or my sound guy did so rafting the sound and
Speaker 10: presumably that including the dialogue was part of his way
Speaker 10: he constructed the film.
Speaker 9: I also watched the English dub. I turned down the
Speaker 9: German for just a hot second, and for whatever reason,
Speaker 9: I was just like, yeah, this hasn't hit me as
Speaker 9: right as the English version. So I'm there with you, Spencer.
Speaker 9: As far as when I'm watching a spaghetti western, if
Speaker 9: I'm watching something that wasn't recorded in an original language, yeah,
Speaker 9: just we know that so many of those were done
Speaker 9: completely MOS or just wild sound. Yeah, I'm absolutely fine
Speaker 9: watching an English dub. I'm not as snabbish as I
Speaker 9: am most of the time, which is saying something because
Speaker 9: I'm a pretty big snob.
Speaker 10: Just before I forget to mention, Mario rip he passed
Speaker 10: away I think just last.
Speaker 11: Month at ninety five or ninety six, and oh what
Speaker 11: a loss.
Speaker 10: I just was going through his filmography and just he's
Speaker 10: in things like the Tin Drum and Lost Honor of
Speaker 10: Cotterina Bloom and every art House to Fernando de Leo's
Speaker 10: crime films and Giolli and just what a career.
Speaker 9: I love too. When I was talking about him being
Speaker 9: such a coward that he can't pull the trigger, he's
Speaker 9: such a coward that he's hoping that the kid's going
Speaker 9: to get an infection and die that way, like the slow, painful,
Speaker 9: awful way, because he's too much of a coward to
Speaker 9: basically put the kid out of his own misery.
Speaker 11: One the bullet stays in.
Speaker 10: I can speak a little bit about again about Click
Speaker 10: and his approach to his actors and their performances, and again,
Speaker 10: this is something else that separated him from German new
Speaker 10: cinema direct is that Click really wanted his actors to
Speaker 10: bring something of themselves to the role, and he was
Speaker 10: part of the reason why he Cass Mariotto, or if
Speaker 10: it's part of the reason why he casts everyone across
Speaker 10: all of his films, is because of what they themselves,
Speaker 10: be it their personal gestures or just some like quality
Speaker 10: facial expression that they have, or in the case of
Speaker 10: something like Supermarket, the lead actor like similar background as
Speaker 10: the character in the film, So like he what was
Speaker 10: important to him is what his actors could bring of
Speaker 10: themselves to a role, rather than someone like like Fossbender,
Speaker 10: who really just went to like his sort of theater
Speaker 10: troop of people who were just he didn't necessarily know.
Speaker 10: He was more wanted to have this sort of like
Speaker 10: have someone throw themselves into a role and like kind
Speaker 10: of their own persona to disappear behind it, whereas Click
Speaker 10: was just the opposite. He wanted some of people for
Speaker 10: what they themselves as an individual could bring to the role.
Speaker 9: What's funny that Adorf was in Lost on Our Ketterina
Speaker 9: Bloom because I don't associate him with German stuff as
Speaker 9: opposed to the kid who is just fear eats the soul.
Speaker 9: Kings of the Road is just like okay, yeah, definitely
Speaker 9: big in the German scene. And I had not realized
Speaker 9: that Adolphin he was also in the weak spot the
Speaker 9: Peter Fleischmann film. That's my week spot is Peter Fleischmann.
Speaker 9: I love his stuff, and it's just okay. When am
Speaker 9: I going to finally talk about Dorothy's revenge on the
Speaker 9: show one of these days? I promise we will, But
Speaker 9: I really enjoy his stuff, and then I was I associate.
Speaker 9: Even though I know he was in what hundreds of movies, No,
Speaker 9: I guess about eighty eight movies he was in Anthony
Speaker 9: Dawson even though he wasn't in that many spaghetti westerns.
Speaker 9: I still just one hundred percent associate him with spaghetti westerns.
Speaker 9: And my god, what a face that guy has. It's
Speaker 9: he's like the is he Scottish Sharre, English is like
Speaker 9: the He's like the Scottish John Keardy.
Speaker 11: He was got a.
Speaker 10: Share by birth. Yeah, he's great and Death rides a horse.
Speaker 10: He's great in the Bond films as well. He's a
Speaker 10: Bond battie and he's in his dial in for murder.
Speaker 10: And he was working in Rome actually when this film
Speaker 10: was being cast. And I don't know what film, if
Speaker 10: they were in a film together, but he's recommended to
Speaker 10: Click by Mario Adar, who I guess knew him either
Speaker 10: from a film or from just being in the film
Speaker 10: scene at the time. So that's how Dawson came to
Speaker 10: or to be cast as Sunshine.
Speaker 11: The costumes in this are.
Speaker 10: Quite simple, but I just think they're so well selected.
Speaker 10: I just I really love mister sunshines kind of he's
Speaker 10: wearing a raincoat as a duster, and he's got but
Speaker 10: other than under that, he's got the sort of modern
Speaker 10: like black shirt and pants. But yet somehow it's also
Speaker 10: it just completely works as a costume for a character
Speaker 10: in a spaghetti western. So again, I think there's that parallel. Yeah,
Speaker 10: I just love it. I just think there's so many
Speaker 10: there's so many great details in general and Deadlock that
Speaker 10: just I think, just just make it for me personally.
Speaker 9: That hat, it's not a cowboy hat, but it's as
Speaker 9: close to a cowboy hat as we're going to get
Speaker 9: in this movie, and it just really works so well.
Speaker 12: I like the appearance of the kid in this movie
Speaker 12: because while he's like twenty nine at the time that
Speaker 12: they made it, so he's definitely young, but there's something
Speaker 12: not just weather beaten, but even as he kind of
Speaker 12: cleans up a little bit through the movie, there's something.
Speaker 5: Seedy about him.
Speaker 12: He's the kid, but there's a strange well of experience
Speaker 12: of something of feeling a little bit beaten up by
Speaker 12: life even though he's still really young in the film
Speaker 12: that I appreciated about.
Speaker 5: It actually made it, you know.
Speaker 12: A very kind of true Western in that way the
Speaker 12: landscape beats you to hell. And one thing that I
Speaker 12: track in Westerns is how sunburned are people and when
Speaker 12: and there comes a point where Dump is extremely and
Speaker 12: alarmingly sunburned, you know, near the end, I'm hoping and
Speaker 12: praying that's makeup and not the real thing, because it
Speaker 12: looked extremely painful. But yeah, there's this real sense with
Speaker 12: very well selected costumes, well selected actors, but then with
Speaker 12: the detail of feeling totally part of this extremely blasted,
Speaker 12: run down small I don't even know if town fits,
Speaker 12: but this like little, this little mining village that they're
Speaker 12: all running through.
Speaker 10: Basically, it was finding this location that was what made
Speaker 10: him decide to basically do the film. He had the
Speaker 10: embryo of the plot kicking around in his head, and
Speaker 10: he traveled around to a Maria and Tunisian and some
Speaker 10: you know, other spaghetti westerns were shot, and then someone
Speaker 10: recommended that he got to Israel and he you know,
Speaker 10: came across this point in the Negev Desert I think
Speaker 10: it was, and he just he basically just I think
Speaker 10: he camped out there for like a few days, was just.
Speaker 11: Like this is it like this is where I need
Speaker 11: to do this.
Speaker 10: Film obviously, like in a very sort of inopportune time,
Speaker 10: because this movie was shot like right after the Six
Speaker 10: Days War between Israel and Jordan, I believe, so basically
Speaker 10: there was still all this sort of tension geographically and
Speaker 10: with between these two governments, and basically they're shooting and
Speaker 10: was still all kind of hot sort of war zone
Speaker 10: under the protection of the Israeli military. So yeah, so
Speaker 10: it was basically click tell these tells, these great stories
Speaker 10: about how sometimes they had to shut down all the
Speaker 10: lights because there was like enemy fire or there was
Speaker 10: a threat of enemy like, it's just it, and he
Speaker 10: clicks says that he thinks this this sort of heightens
Speaker 10: the sort of the tension and gives it this sort
Speaker 10: of highly charged atmosphere because all of this was going
Speaker 10: on and it was such a sort of hot spot.
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, very hot spot. I love how the sun
Speaker 9: is used in this film, especially in the beginning when
Speaker 9: he's walking through the desert and you get those close
Speaker 9: ups or the shots of the sun and then what's
Speaker 9: obviously to me anyway like a white light was somebody
Speaker 9: like going across it with something. So it gives a
Speaker 9: Strobe effect and everything, and that our antagonist is called
Speaker 9: mister Sunshine. And I love in that early exchange between
Speaker 9: Dump and Sunshine when he Dump actually gets the upper
Speaker 9: hand on him and pulls the gun out of the
Speaker 9: truck and he's going to shoot Sunshine, and Sunshine is
Speaker 9: the one who's walking forward and Dump is moving backwards
Speaker 9: because again he's scared for his life. And I love
Speaker 9: how Anthony Dawson Antonio is his Italian name. Well, yeah,
Speaker 9: he just this does this little wave with his hand.
Speaker 9: It just it freaks out Dump every single time that
Speaker 9: he does it. It's just such a little tease move
Speaker 9: that he's doing. It's so great.
Speaker 10: And I think those are exactly the kinds of things
Speaker 10: that click. As I was saying before, the little it's
Speaker 10: like little gestures and like little things that like Dawson,
Speaker 10: he doesn't say so necessarily in the commentary, but I'm
Speaker 10: sure this is something that Dawson just came up with
Speaker 10: and click went great.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 10: Just do something with your hands and just Dawson just
Speaker 10: improvise and it just what does it mean? Who the
Speaker 10: hell knows, But it works great, It looks, it just
Speaker 10: looks fantastic. Yeah, I think the sun just to go
Speaker 10: back to that as a theme. It is just like
Speaker 10: the son obviously traditional symbol of warmth and life giving,
Speaker 10: and it's just such a brutal, like malicious force.
Speaker 11: In this film.
Speaker 10: Like starting from that very first scene, I just want
Speaker 10: to say, like I this opening credit sequence is really
Speaker 10: like one of my favorite because it's you've got that,
Speaker 10: You've got the walking through the desert inexplicably with in
Speaker 10: the suit with the suitcase and the and then also
Speaker 10: the can music is like building up with these drums
Speaker 10: and also and it's like the title comes with the
Speaker 10: glare of the.
Speaker 11: Sun and the title, the title across the screen.
Speaker 10: I just it's so great. It's just like I remember
Speaker 10: watching it for the first time, just going, oh, yeah,
Speaker 10: I'm gonna like this.
Speaker 9: It really reminds me a lot of the Good the
Speaker 9: Man the Ugly in that whole sequence when they're going
Speaker 9: through the desert and Blondie and his this skin just
Speaker 9: looks so awful and his lips just are all cracked
Speaker 9: and everything. I just love how brutal that whole thing is,
Speaker 9: and just the way that Tuco's just teasing them with
Speaker 9: water and everything. It's so nice.
Speaker 10: Well, I think there are tons of parallels to that
Speaker 10: film in this. Obviously you have this, I mean you
Speaker 10: could really, I mean it's not difficult to sort of
Speaker 10: map those characters onto the ones in Deadlock. I mean
Speaker 10: you really have, you know, like the Clint Eastwood character
Speaker 10: as the kid and you know, to go as god
Speaker 10: Or and Dawson as Lee van Cleef and they angelize
Speaker 10: and then you know, you get you know, you have
Speaker 10: that in mind, and then you get the scene where
Speaker 10: the three of them go to the cemetery looking for
Speaker 10: the grave with them and I'm just like this, you know,
Speaker 10: and I love that movie, and I you know, I
Speaker 10: love a good reference. So I mean, I just I
Speaker 10: thought that was I'm sure some people would argue like, oh,
Speaker 10: they ripped it off. I'm good done, Just like I
Speaker 10: just think it's a great homage. It's really fun.
Speaker 5: Well also as homage, it's like doing with what you have,
Speaker 5: because that cemetery pops up and every time I see it,
Speaker 5: I'm thinking of the Good, the Bad, and the ugly,
Speaker 5: and it's a really interesting cemetery because obviously it's not
Speaker 5: enormous and mythic like in The Good, the Bad, and
Speaker 5: the ugly.
Speaker 12: It's little, but it's also loaded in relationship to like
Speaker 12: the number of people that we see on screen, because
Speaker 12: a lot more dead people than live people in this movie,
Speaker 12: you know, just on the basis of like all those
Speaker 12: crosses crowded into that tiny little space for the cemetery.
Speaker 12: So I think it's like, yeah, homage whatever, it becomes
Speaker 12: its own kind of iconography within this film to import that.
Speaker 12: And back to the Sun, oh man, this is just
Speaker 12: like the beauty of the editing of the Sun at
Speaker 12: the beginning, but then as a payoff at the end
Speaker 12: when mister Sunshine is going to finally murder the kid
Speaker 12: and spoiler he doesn't, but in the moment that he is,
Speaker 12: this montage of sun and eyes and gunfire and everything
Speaker 12: is just.
Speaker 5: It's pretty great.
Speaker 10: Another great sort of Sun is one of my personal favorites,
Speaker 10: is when the kid is delirious, having this literal fever dreams,
Speaker 10: is suffering this gunshot wound, and he has this vision
Speaker 10: of Jesse, the young woman, standing on the roof with
Speaker 10: the sun just behind her, so she's just this sort
Speaker 10: of shadowy outline and I and just look, there's this
Speaker 10: great weird cam and I guess this is where the
Speaker 10: sort of acid western if he Will influences come in,
Speaker 10: because it's very psychedelic.
Speaker 11: It's very the.
Speaker 10: Camera's kind of wobbling in this weird way, and she's
Speaker 10: just standing there.
Speaker 11: It's just such a beautiful shot. I really love it.
Speaker 12: Her introduction is also a psychedelic She's just leaning against
Speaker 12: the doorframe, but' very she's well lit from the front,
Speaker 12: but she's also so backlit by the sun that it
Speaker 12: creates this halo and it feels dreamy or like a hallucination.
Speaker 12: In that moment, the kid is not in great shape,
Speaker 12: but when he looks towards this door, there she is,
Speaker 12: is this kind of shimmering figure, and it makes me
Speaker 12: wonder is she real?
Speaker 5: Is she a memory? What are we gonna find out?
Speaker 5: And of course she's real, but that's also is she
Speaker 5: a memory or is she a dream or whatever?
Speaker 12: Is part of the vibe here asking that question before
Speaker 12: confirming that somebody is part of the diegetic world of
Speaker 12: the movie.
Speaker 9: I'd like that there's an echo there too, when you
Speaker 9: see him later on and he's got the mirror and
Speaker 9: she's across the way and she's on the building and
Speaker 9: he's got the mirror and shining the light at her
Speaker 9: that way, and you get that nice echo too of
Speaker 9: dump counting to three and gets up to two before
Speaker 9: mister Sunshine takes the gun away from him. And then
Speaker 9: at the end when it's the big showdown between the
Speaker 9: kid and mister Sunshine, that there's also a count to three.
Speaker 9: But that's just a bizarro scene because I think he
Speaker 9: counts to two and then rather than killing the kid,
Speaker 9: he massacres the girl, and then he massacres the mother,
Speaker 9: and then he can't get his gun off on the kid.
Speaker 9: The kid ends up taking the gun away and ends
Speaker 9: up killing mister Sunshine. But yeah, during that whole thing too,
Speaker 9: you've got yeah, like you said, the psychedelic the mouth
Speaker 9: open mister Sunshine and the camera's practically going inside of
Speaker 9: his mouth, and it's.
Speaker 10: Just less madness with the way he's shot in that scene,
Speaker 10: he's just like the one like the almost as if
Speaker 10: the sun is driving him crazy like that kind of
Speaker 10: feels something like that or inciting some kind of psychosis.
Speaker 9: There's a great shot in here too, where there's the
Speaker 9: bullet that was pulled out of the kid comes back
Speaker 9: a few times and he's like walking down the middle
Speaker 9: of the street when the ghost town basically and you've
Speaker 9: got mister Sunshine. I think they have yet to see
Speaker 9: each other again for the first time. And Sunshine, though,
Speaker 9: like lifts up a window and is looking at the
Speaker 9: kid as he's walking, like this porthole kind of thing,
Speaker 9: and I'm just like, this so reminds me of Yo
Speaker 9: Jimbo or A Fist full of Dollars, where it's like
Speaker 9: the way that the Undertaker would always be looking at
Speaker 9: things and just observing stuff. I always enjoyed that about
Speaker 9: that film, or my other favorite moment of that film
Speaker 9: is like when Yo Jimbo is up on the high
Speaker 9: tower looking down at everybody and looking at the two
Speaker 9: gangs coming together. He's like sitting in that privileged position.
Speaker 9: There's no privilege for dump. He's just like he's so powerless.
Speaker 9: Especially by the time you've got both the kid and
Speaker 9: Sunshine in there. He's just like on the outs completely.
Speaker 9: I think the only advantage he has is he knows
Speaker 9: where the money's at. And you're right about the way
Speaker 9: that the mother is shot, just that it's very different
Speaker 9: than everything else. It feels very handheld, and even though
Speaker 9: she's interacting with the other characters. A lot of times
Speaker 9: it feels like she was just there on her own.
Speaker 9: I'm trying to think if we see a lot of
Speaker 9: two shots of her with anybody else, I think there's
Speaker 9: a little bit of a dance that she does with
Speaker 9: the kid, or she does that strange thing of whipping
Speaker 9: her breasts out and chasing him along, and he's just, oh,
Speaker 9: I want no part of this.
Speaker 10: I mentioned psychosis just a little bit earlier, but there's
Speaker 10: a like with the this is not a very feminist
Speaker 10: reflect his personal views, but it's not necessarily one that
Speaker 10: I think feminists will find a lot of value in,
Speaker 10: because yeah, so like I'm forgetting her name. Now, the
Speaker 10: older female character, the mother of the younger woman, you know,
Speaker 10: she's like half crazy. You know, she apparently used to
Speaker 10: run the town bordello, so that's like kind of a
Speaker 10: little bit of her backstory. And you know, her daughter
Speaker 10: is presumably the offspring of some encounter she had, possibly
Speaker 10: with Dump, possibly with someone else. Dump I think, sort
Speaker 10: of disavows this and says like, oh, she's not mine
Speaker 10: or whatever, but I think there's some ambiguity there.
Speaker 11: And then you know, Jesse is.
Speaker 10: Just mute and seems to be being fed like psychotic
Speaker 10: drugs by or psychedelic drugs viral. You know, she like
Speaker 10: jump like pulls a bunch of pills out of her
Speaker 10: mouth off at one point. You know, she never speaks obviously,
Speaker 10: she's just sort of clearly like not white all there.
Speaker 10: But yeah, so there's this kind of like sickness that
Speaker 10: runs through like at the very least the female characters
Speaker 10: in the movie, which is like an odd touch.
Speaker 9: I think her name is Karina. It's like everybody's got
Speaker 9: a little bit of a title. And I was trying
Speaker 9: to look this up yesterday and I never did figure
Speaker 9: it out. It's like she and I don't speak Germans,
Speaker 9: so this is going to be horrible diclite shlacktel And
Speaker 9: I'm like, I have no idea what that is because
Speaker 9: everybody like Jesse the Girl and Soo something or other
Speaker 9: kid the Young Killers. But and then for Charles Dump
Speaker 9: it's the rat as if Dump is not enough, oh,
Speaker 9: it's the stripped box, is what it comes back as
Speaker 9: through translation. So yeah, Karina the stripped box.
Speaker 5: I don't like round of that. I'm going to stay away.
Speaker 9: When you talked about the use of the trucks instead
Speaker 9: of horses, and yeah, definitely puts it in a very
Speaker 9: particular time using these trucks, even though they're all older
Speaker 9: and beat up. But I want to say, and please
Speaker 9: correct me if I'm wrong, just the whole idea of vehicles,
Speaker 9: like it feels like Click is very into vehicles.
Speaker 10: I think you definitely see that in Supermarket Sure, and
Speaker 10: oh in his first It's really interesting that you point
Speaker 10: that out, actually, because I'm like, oh, yeah, and he
Speaker 10: does this in his first film, aw which is called Bubchin,
Speaker 10: which in it it really means a little boy, but
Speaker 10: I think it gets translated to English as like little
Speaker 10: vampire or something like that. The movie has nothing to
Speaker 10: do with vampires. But again, cars play a huge without
Speaker 10: giving too much away, cars play a really big Vehicles
Speaker 10: play a huge part in the story the storyline of
Speaker 10: that film as well. So that's very interesting because that
Speaker 10: is or I think about it, the more I see
Speaker 10: that as a sort of he does use vehicles a
Speaker 10: lot in his films for various purposes.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I just looked up Enzo's title from German to
Speaker 9: English is the Wretched Snoop. Very appropriate.
Speaker 11: This is fantastic. I'm wondering where these descriptions come from.
Speaker 9: I compared the mother or what the snatched box. I
Speaker 9: can't remember. I compared her to Edith Massey before, but honestly,
Speaker 9: she looks like she would belong also in a Rodarowski film.
Speaker 9: This does bring to mind a couple times of El
Speaker 9: Topo for me, or even more The Holy Mountain. I
Speaker 9: think she could be in The Holy Mountain.
Speaker 10: Yodorowski actually saw this movie at I don't know if
Speaker 10: you guys have heard this story about just a little
Speaker 10: bit of backstory, so this in nineteen seventy one. This
Speaker 10: movie was initially the West German selection for the can
Speaker 10: Film Festival and was going to compete and due to
Speaker 10: based on if you believe the way Click tells it,
Speaker 10: the powers that be in West Germany did not want
Speaker 10: this film to be the official selection for West Germany.
Speaker 10: They wanted something that was more traditionally in the German
Speaker 10: new cinema, so they kicked something else instead.
Speaker 11: I can't remember why I looked it up. It's a
Speaker 11: movie I've never heard of.
Speaker 10: It clearly didn't have to stand the test of time
Speaker 10: from what I can tell, but Deadlock was shown out
Speaker 10: of competition elsewhere at the festival and Yodorowski attended a
Speaker 10: screening of the film and then spoke to him afterwards
Speaker 10: and said, like how much he liked Deadlocke and how
Speaker 10: great he thought it was. And I think they were
Speaker 10: basically probably made around the same time, So I don't
Speaker 10: think it would have been possible for Click to have
Speaker 10: seen al Topo until much later or sometime later.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 10: He doesn't mention at what point he would if he has,
Speaker 10: but he basically said, oh, yeah, Yodorowski and I we
Speaker 10: just sat around eating from the cold buffet at the screening,
Speaker 10: and so yeah, apparently Yodorowski was a big fan.
Speaker 9: Sounds like a lot of people enjoyed this movie. And
Speaker 9: I was reading on the Wikipedia. It was like he
Speaker 9: got tons of offers after this to make more spaghetti westerns.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and he turned them all down because he didn't
Speaker 10: want to repeat himself. He just said, I did that,
Speaker 10: this was my Western. I want to do something else now.
Speaker 10: So again really kind of like working within you know,
Speaker 10: the likeeist of the time, like Okay, well I've done
Speaker 10: my Western, now I want to do something else that
Speaker 10: a few years later. I want to do something that's
Speaker 10: relevant to nineteen seventy three or whatever whenever he started
Speaker 10: to make his next film again and just to go
Speaker 10: back briefly to Click's approach to filmmaking, and he got
Speaker 10: accused a lot of and again this is why he
Speaker 10: was never really fully accepted by the new German cinemas,
Speaker 10: because there was always a kind of a commercial or
Speaker 10: what was perceived to be a commercial element to his films,
Speaker 10: and Deadlock made money.
Speaker 11: Not all of his films were commercial hits.
Speaker 10: But I think he was accused of because he had
Speaker 10: this approach of wanting to engage with the audience he wanted.
Speaker 10: He said he wanted to make movies that were not
Speaker 10: in the ivy tower. He wanted to make movies that
Speaker 10: audiences would want to come and see and thereby engage with.
Speaker 10: So I think this was interpreted as an attempt to
Speaker 10: make commercial films. So I think he was accused of
Speaker 10: being a sort of a populist filmmaker. He just wanted
Speaker 10: to please audiences, whereas I don't think it was quite
Speaker 10: that simple.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm surprised that this movie made a lot of money.
Speaker 9: It's just so peculiar for me. I mean, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 9: I think I really enjoyed it, and For me, one
Speaker 9: of the most fun scenes is the scene that kind
Speaker 9: of reminds me of a Western the most. It's this
Speaker 9: great little bit of business of the kid having a
Speaker 9: forty five in his suitcase, in his briefcase of money,
Speaker 9: and then you see the forty five being played, like
Speaker 9: there's the jukebox and you see the forty five. There's
Speaker 9: just the one forty five in the entire jukebox, And
Speaker 9: I love when it's skipping this kind of like non
Speaker 9: diegetic diegetic music and the way that adoff just gives
Speaker 9: like a little nudge to the jukebox. But then there's
Speaker 9: the whole thing of them having a drink. I love
Speaker 9: when it takes the drink and puts it over his
Speaker 9: shoulder and they're going to come back with that the
Speaker 9: glocken spiel. You don't get a glockenspiel in movies very often,
Speaker 9: and if so, reminded me of like Bugs Bunny and
Speaker 9: You're Somebody Sam when he's got the piano wired up
Speaker 9: where if he plays the right note, it'll blow up
Speaker 9: in his face.
Speaker 3: No, that's not try it again, you're stobbit like that.
Speaker 9: But instead he's just like trying to play the glockenspiel
Speaker 9: and Anthony ny Dawson keeps shooting out the last note
Speaker 9: of the music he's trying to play, and you get
Speaker 9: that great framing of his eyes through the glockenspiel of eyes.
Speaker 11: It's so good just to go back for a second
Speaker 11: to the skipping and the record.
Speaker 10: It reminds me of being in like a a luck
Speaker 10: groove and a record, and it kind of like kind
Speaker 10: of channels with the title of the film as well.
Speaker 10: It's just like a sort of an unending loop.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 9: When it came to the title of the movie, I
Speaker 9: was very curious what it was going to mean because
Speaker 9: for whatever reason, and I guess it was just the
Speaker 9: art on the DVD Slash Blu Ray that I have
Speaker 9: not that compelling. It's like the girl's face above and
Speaker 9: then there's a truck and maybe dump on the cover,
Speaker 9: and I'm just like, what the hell is this movie?
Speaker 9: You have no idea what this is. It's very unappealing,
Speaker 9: and so I was just like, deadlock, what is it
Speaker 9: is that? Like a do they have collars around their
Speaker 9: necks and if they run past a certain point their
Speaker 9: heads are gonna explode?
Speaker 5: What does this mean?
Speaker 9: And then I was thinking of the Sarah Pereitsky Vier
Speaker 9: Worshowski book that Viera Worshowski's based on, and that's about
Speaker 9: a like the Sioux locks up here in Michigan. There's
Speaker 9: an explosion, so they have a dead lock, and I'm
Speaker 9: just like, what the hell? And then yeah, I made
Speaker 9: a joke about the Bruce Willis film. I can't tell
Speaker 9: you how many movies there are called deadlock, and I'm
Speaker 9: just like, all right, is it just Loggerheads were deadlocked?
Speaker 9: And something I.
Speaker 10: Actually picture and again to go back to go the
Speaker 10: band and the Ugly it's just sort of there's like
Speaker 10: a sort of figurative interpretation of the scene in the
Speaker 10: cemetery where they're all kind of pointing guns at each
Speaker 10: other and there is that literal deadlock of they can't
Speaker 10: everyone's got a gunpoint at the other one. So where
Speaker 10: are you gonna their characters are deadlock from making it
Speaker 10: for their move what made me think of? Anyway, the
Speaker 10: alternate titles apparently that Click considered were Bloody Sunshine and Showdown.
Speaker 11: I think Deadlock sounds much cooler personally. I think it's
Speaker 11: a great title.
Speaker 5: I'd like to talk about the soundtrack, just a little bit,
Speaker 5: because this is one of the things that is different
Speaker 5: for a Western, whether contemporary or not. We've got the.
Speaker 12: Forty five is in there, but also the non diegetic
Speaker 12: soundtrack music and what can contributed a really odd different
Speaker 12: kind of feeling. Just it's one of one of my
Speaker 12: favorite kinds of soundtracks where it feels at once really
Speaker 12: off topic and yet perfectly apt. Something about the rhythms
Speaker 12: and the guitar feedback and whatnot that's going on in
Speaker 12: Western music was really fascinating to me. And it was
Speaker 12: interested to find out that that they participated in the
Speaker 12: sound design that in the editing process they were at
Speaker 12: they were looking at the movie, and they were also
Speaker 12: contributing bits of sound and musical things that didn't sound
Speaker 12: like music into the overall sound design for the movie.
Speaker 12: You know, that's the kind of way I would love
Speaker 12: to make a movie. And it never seems to work out.
Speaker 12: Their effect on this film, I think is really interesting.
Speaker 12: And then the place that it has on you know,
Speaker 12: there what turned out to be kind of a big
Speaker 12: deal album for them soundtracks you know, and sort of
Speaker 12: in their early discography, you know, building up their reputation.
Speaker 12: This soundtrack is actually like really important to that. And
Speaker 12: the way that these songs play on the album, you know,
Speaker 12: because I was listening to the album mom, but you
Speaker 12: know before we got on here is really really interesting.
Speaker 12: And I'm just curious about some of your feelings about
Speaker 12: how this works as soundtrack music.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 10: It's one of one of my favorite elements of the film.
Speaker 10: Just to shed a little bit of background. So Click
Speaker 10: himself as a musician, and I think he initially wanted
Speaker 10: to do the score for the film, but they decided,
Speaker 10: I guess in the editor in fact, when he was
Speaker 10: putting it together, basically said oh, you know, I think
Speaker 10: you need some different music. And you know, he recommended Can,
Speaker 10: who were not like well known at all at the time.
Speaker 10: They were just in your German band. So like Click
Speaker 10: met with them and that's you know, they kind of
Speaker 10: came up with the it's in what sounds like a
Speaker 10: very collaborative process, came up with a score. I love
Speaker 10: the fact that the track that's heard on the jukebox
Speaker 10: is a tango. And apparently he had, you know, he
Speaker 10: told Can he said, you know, I want a tango,
Speaker 10: which is just again why in a Western Why? I
Speaker 10: don't know, but it's great and it works perfectly, and
Speaker 10: so like can listened to like forty or fifty different tangos,
Speaker 10: and that's how they came up with.
Speaker 11: A tango whiskey Man great, which is a great track.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I know, I wish they were I wish they
Speaker 10: had done more music for this film. Like I wish
Speaker 10: it was like a like a you know, a full
Speaker 10: like score. But it's We've got these three tracks that
Speaker 10: are all wonderful, and it's just it just makes you
Speaker 10: want more. It reminds me a lot of the and
Speaker 10: I mean, I guess both in the fact that it's
Speaker 10: an acid Western and also that it has this kind
Speaker 10: of psychedelic rock soundtrack. Is Muttalo if you know that movie,
Speaker 10: just that combo. I absolutely love it. I just think
Speaker 10: it for whatever reason, it works. I mean, I think
Speaker 10: part of the reason why it works is because when
Speaker 10: these films, some of these, especially some of the slightly
Speaker 10: later spaghetti westerns, we're kind of trying to channel youth movements,
Speaker 10: and the Kid is clearly representing a post hippie kind
Speaker 10: of youth movements, even bottom mine off kind.
Speaker 11: Of stuff that was going on.
Speaker 10: I think that was a way and then Muttalo as
Speaker 10: well in the cost even though it's a traditional spaghetti Western,
Speaker 10: they have this psychedelic element to their costumes and stuff.
Speaker 10: Then by adding that layer of psychedelic rock on top,
Speaker 10: really drives home that sort of point in time that
Speaker 10: they are and just that kind of the just the
Speaker 10: whole psychedelic kind of elements and culture that we're going
Speaker 10: on at the time.
Speaker 9: I want to say that the scene that really inspired
Speaker 9: them for the Tengo Whiskey Man scene was where I
Speaker 9: want to say, it's the whiskey gets employed, but also
Speaker 9: the whole Oklahoma Kid Goodfellas scene with them shooting at
Speaker 9: at our's feet and him the way that he has
Speaker 9: to dance, and they're just like, yeah, he dance for us.
Speaker 9: And then he comes in and that's when they say, okay, yeah,
Speaker 9: we'll take a little bit out of the whiskey. I
Speaker 9: love how Dawson does that, like shakes a little bit
Speaker 9: out and then gives him the rest of the bottle
Speaker 9: and then eventually just pours it down his throat. Though
Speaker 9: I have to say that the pouring of the whiskey
Speaker 9: down the throat very oral rape at first, just the
Speaker 9: way that the bottle is being placed and that it's
Speaker 9: being forced into ad Our's mouth. That was forgive me
Speaker 9: for being the guy who sees that violent. And yeah, Can,
Speaker 9: oh man, there's a great and I don't think they're
Speaker 9: doing it anymore, but they're And what sucks is that
Speaker 9: they had just started on a whole kroud rock series
Speaker 9: because they love to do series. There's a podcast called
Speaker 9: No Dogs in Space and they they're one of my
Speaker 9: favorite music podcasts, if not like the only music pop
Speaker 9: I guess I listened to Morris Is, but the it's
Speaker 9: such a great music podcast. They get so in depth
Speaker 9: and they did a whole series. They didn't go past Can,
Speaker 9: but they did a whole series on Can. I think
Speaker 9: they did four or five episodes, and they dive deep,
Speaker 9: like they put me to shame with the way that
Speaker 9: they dive into stuff. And so to hear them talk
Speaker 9: all about the history of Can, I love the story
Speaker 9: of the lead singer and that he really wasn't that
Speaker 9: good at German or English and just would go with
Speaker 9: the flow. And just the way that all of that
Speaker 9: music came together such a great thing. And it feels,
Speaker 9: I mean, it felt I don't want to say feels,
Speaker 9: but it felt like there was a little bit of
Speaker 9: a cannaissance a few years ago when it was like
Speaker 9: I kept hearing Vitamin See in different movies between Inherent
Speaker 9: Vice and The Gentleman at It, and I was just like, oh,
Speaker 9: this is great. But ye know, we've actually talked a
Speaker 9: little bit about them before on here because they did
Speaker 9: the soundtrack for Deep End, the Skolamowski film Mother Sky.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's such a such a good track, wonderful, and
Speaker 10: that's another grand I'm so glad if you guys hadn't
Speaker 10: already covered that film, it would definitely have been one
Speaker 10: of my picks.
Speaker 11: I absolutely love Deep End. It's great, and yeah that
Speaker 11: the track is amazing, But.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I agree with you. I wish there was more
Speaker 9: of their music here, But what we do have is
Speaker 9: Chef's Kiss.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so good.
Speaker 10: You would think that like in Italy, where a movie
Speaker 10: becomes popular and then a bunch of directors rush out
Speaker 10: to pump out a bunch more to capitalize on the success,
Speaker 10: you did not have that in Germany. This is a
Speaker 10: very much a standalone film and just to I can
Speaker 10: give it. And there's a little bit of history with
Speaker 10: Germany and Westerns because in the early sixties and mid sixties,
Speaker 10: there were these films in East Germany which were like
Speaker 10: adventure novels that were adapted into Western films.
Speaker 11: I haven't seen them. I've seen just a few clips.
Speaker 10: They're like really cheesy, and they're like again, they're like
Speaker 10: Karl My who wrote these novels that that were then
Speaker 10: adapted by the DFA and were very popular, and then
Speaker 10: they petered out around sixty seven and sixty eight something
Speaker 10: like that. So then you didn't have anything in Germany
Speaker 10: that were there were a lot of co productions where
Speaker 10: in fact what just going back to the Gray Silence
Speaker 10: I think is possibly a German co production. I can't
Speaker 10: quite quite remember, but but there weren't any sort of
Speaker 10: German language German produced westerns until Deadlock came along, and
Speaker 10: so what didn't happen is a whole bunch more German
Speaker 10: western they didn't pick it up. And again I think
Speaker 10: that's because there was so much focus on the sort
Speaker 10: of young intellectual group of film makers who were doing
Speaker 10: And again I'm not this is a no. I'm a
Speaker 10: huge Fosspender fan, so this is the no. I'm in
Speaker 10: no way denigrating directors like volkashlundor for Fossbender or Alexander Kluga.
Speaker 10: But they were very they're much more intellectual. Although I
Speaker 10: will say, and I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 10: seen this film Fosspender actually did. It's not really a Western.
Speaker 10: It's more of a Southern Gothic movie.
Speaker 11: It's called Whitey. It was done the same year.
Speaker 10: It's a really interesting, kind of weird entry into his canon.
Speaker 10: It is almost again, it's not really a Western, but
Speaker 10: you could view it in that lens because it's set
Speaker 10: in a similar it's set in a sort of Western
Speaker 10: like kind of period.
Speaker 11: So that's a that's an interesting one.
Speaker 10: I think that's maybe as far as I know, that's
Speaker 10: like the only one that came close to touching on
Speaker 10: what could be perceived as a West.
Speaker 9: I just remember, there is another character in this movie
Speaker 9: that you see for about thirty seconds, and that's the
Speaker 9: guy on the train that kicks and dump off of
Speaker 9: the train when he throws the bag of money onto
Speaker 9: the back of the train, or at least you think
Speaker 9: it's the bag of money, and I wish it was.
Speaker 5: That's great.
Speaker 12: He's got that gigantic wrench, that wrench that he's hitting
Speaker 12: him with and then he basically gets the money. Right, No,
Speaker 12: he does it, but it's just like it is one
Speaker 12: of these weird moments of okay, what happened here?
Speaker 5: Where are we in the movie? Like total absurdity, And.
Speaker 10: They did that in one take because apparently they had
Speaker 10: because the budget was so low for this, not surprisingly,
Speaker 10: like basically they had this was just like just a
Speaker 10: train that was just like a freight train that they
Speaker 10: just they had to so they had to time it
Speaker 10: to make sure so he's running at just the right
Speaker 10: speed to miss it as it's moving, and just so
Speaker 10: it was like they just had to set everything up
Speaker 10: and like they had one chance to get it right,
Speaker 10: and it's just like that. I think that is just
Speaker 10: so amazing to me, considering how complicated did it actually
Speaker 10: the set up actually seems that's a great one.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I kind of wish that the money had been on
Speaker 9: that train and that was just because that would have
Speaker 9: been one of those Jim Thompson endings where it's just like, Okay,
Speaker 9: nobody gets the money. Who gets the money? The conductor
Speaker 9: gets the money, Chris Borg nine from Emperor of the
Speaker 9: North Pole gets the money.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well no, it's interesting.
Speaker 12: I guess this is something I should credit to the movie,
Speaker 12: just causing that lasting confusion for me, because in the moment,
Speaker 12: I was like, oh, wow, the money is just going
Speaker 12: to go away on the train, and then it turns
Speaker 12: out no, that it doesn't. But there's enough of a
Speaker 12: weird fake out of what exactly is happening, Who's got
Speaker 12: the money, who's going to get away with it at
Speaker 12: that point in the movie that that, Yeah, it remains,
Speaker 12: the feeling of it remains in my mind, you know,
Speaker 12: like it gets It reminded me a little bit of.
Speaker 5: That the guy on the train who sends him away.
Speaker 12: I don't know if you've seen The Emperor of the North,
Speaker 12: Ernest Borgnin character comes in and you know, dispatches hobos
Speaker 12: that are trying to hop the train with a hammer,
Speaker 12: and this giant wrench was like kind of a nice
Speaker 12: step up for keeping a guy from hopping the train.
Speaker 5: But the bag stayed on. I don't know what's in
Speaker 5: the bag, but it took off with the train for good.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it just I just took it as
Speaker 10: like a sort of desperate attempt to get the hell
Speaker 10: out of there.
Speaker 12: Again.
Speaker 9: You mentioned absurdity and I think the absurdity of the
Speaker 9: one shot that it takes to destroy Enso's car because
Speaker 9: at one point after yeah, after the train goes by,
Speaker 9: Dump is like, Okay, I guess I'll go back, and
Speaker 9: then here comes Enzo coming. Wouldn't you know that mister
Speaker 9: Sunshine's in the passenger seat. Sunshine gets out, Enzo rolls
Speaker 9: away and he's I shouldn't let that guy go, and
Speaker 9: it gives the gun to Dump is okay, and he
Speaker 9: shoots with one shot. The whole truck clows.
Speaker 12: Wow.
Speaker 10: I think that's the first and only time that Dump
Speaker 10: actually kills someone, right, So, yeah, it's just it's sort
Speaker 10: of his you know, friend of all people.
Speaker 9: And maybe I'm just too big of a fan of
Speaker 9: black shampoo. Everybody can accuse me of that. But after
Speaker 9: Dump gets hit by the truck and he's dispatched by
Speaker 9: this truck, I was just like, when's he coming back?
Speaker 9: He's got to come back, right, He's going to show
Speaker 9: up at the end with an axe and take out somebody.
Speaker 9: Why is he not coming back? But no, he never
Speaker 9: comes back. So it's just such a big bummer for
Speaker 9: me because it's Oh, Dump was kind of my favorite character.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I know it happens.
Speaker 10: It's towards the end of the film, but it's still
Speaker 10: like enough before the end of the film that it
Speaker 10: feels something about it feels a bit a little premature.
Speaker 11: But yeah, I could. I think I could.
Speaker 10: I don't think it occurred to me that he would
Speaker 10: come back, but I think you could see a version
Speaker 10: of the story where he comes back, and I.
Speaker 11: Think it would actually just work perfectly. It would just
Speaker 11: it would fit.
Speaker 9: If he had crawled across the desert or whatever, just
Speaker 9: this long trip back because he had. It's just amazing
Speaker 9: that it's like who's got the gun, Who's got the money,
Speaker 9: and just the way that they can take the guns
Speaker 9: away from each other so easily at times, and then yeah,
Speaker 9: they're just constantly like swapping the money. Who's got it now?
Speaker 9: And like I said, I thought I was right there
Speaker 9: with you, Spencer. I thought the money was on the train.
Speaker 9: And then you know it's going to come back in
Speaker 9: this other way, and then it's Sunshine leaves and finally
Speaker 9: is smart enough to open up the briefcase only to
Speaker 9: see sorry, old man.
Speaker 11: I love that scene. It is so great and again
Speaker 11: just the old man.
Speaker 10: And this ties into something I mentioned earlier about the
Speaker 10: kid and being a representation of youth ulture. There's a
Speaker 10: kind of an interesting cross generational kind of dialogue battle
Speaker 10: that's happening, and especially it plays out a spot in
Speaker 10: the scene where Dump is about to get run over,
Speaker 10: and basically the kid is saying something to the effect
Speaker 10: of you're too old, you haven't got it anymore. You
Speaker 10: don't egging him on and just be you know, playing
Speaker 10: on his Sunshine's potential insecurity at being an old man
Speaker 10: and not being as able to pull things off that
Speaker 10: like the kid. Because I think one thing maybe we
Speaker 10: didn't mention is that where the money comes from in
Speaker 10: the first place, which is apparently from a robbery that
Speaker 10: Sunshine and the kid pull off before the film starts.
Speaker 10: And the reason why the kid has a bullet in
Speaker 10: his arm is because we find out is because Dawson
Speaker 10: shot him and he says something like, you put this
Speaker 10: bullet in my arm. So basically there's again and so
Speaker 10: there's this element of like potentially characters who were once
Speaker 10: friends or partners at the very least, and this element
Speaker 10: of betrayal that like adds this extra layer of mistrust
Speaker 10: between the characters.
Speaker 9: And I can definitely see that as being a generational
Speaker 9: mistrust you mentioned, and I'm going to fuck up the
Speaker 9: name as a bitter Minehoff Bottom, mine haff Bottom mine
Speaker 9: Hoff and just yeah, these political movements that were going
Speaker 9: on at the time. I totally thought, Okay, the kid
Speaker 9: wants us money to fund some sort of terrorist activity.
Speaker 11: I was just like this, Yeah, that I could easily
Speaker 11: have believed something like that was in mind at the time.
Speaker 11: I think that this whole.
Speaker 9: Idea of the younger generation and just the way that
Speaker 9: you know, by the end of this movie, it is
Speaker 9: so neialistic. Everybody's dead, right, it's just the other than
Speaker 9: the kid. Every person that we've met in this entire film,
Speaker 9: other than the kid, and I guess the conductor now
Speaker 9: are just dead. And I don't even know if we
Speaker 9: get a shot of the money at the end. I
Speaker 9: think we just get a shot of the fake money
Speaker 9: in the briefcase, and so we.
Speaker 10: I think the money is still buried in the cemetery, perhaps.
Speaker 9: Yeah, under the grave of Ourton.
Speaker 10: And so maybe that's where he's going. Yeah, I think
Speaker 10: Jesse's end and this is just so sad. She's just
Speaker 10: the sort of sweet, tender, innocent character basically all the
Speaker 10: way through, and then she has this love scene with
Speaker 10: the kid and clearly falls in love with him, and
Speaker 10: then you see her it's the only time she changes.
Speaker 5: Really.
Speaker 10: Two times that characters change clothes in this movie is
Speaker 10: when Dump puts on a suit to have this final
Speaker 10: showdown with his counterparts who are also wearing suits or
Speaker 10: suit like clothing not a sweater vest of the hole
Speaker 10: in it. And Jesse, who is wearing this sort of
Speaker 10: blue flooral dress throughout most of the film, and then
Speaker 10: she changes and he's barefoot through most of it. And
Speaker 10: then you see her at the end with her suitcase
Speaker 10: and she's in this pink dress with shoes on, trotting
Speaker 10: out with her suitcase ready waiting to be taken away
Speaker 10: by the kid, and it's from the look of it,
Speaker 10: Sunshine as well, and they're just like, no, or are
Speaker 10: they Sunshine?
Speaker 11: I think I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 10: How it plays out, It's fun basically says no, she
Speaker 10: stays behind, and then he stays behind as well.
Speaker 11: That's when he says something like, why don't you just
Speaker 11: kill me now?
Speaker 5: And he's he throws the gun out and yourself, yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 10: Get exactly what the line is, like, why do you
Speaker 10: know I left? You might gun do it yourself? Such
Speaker 10: a such a gray line. So yeah, and then they
Speaker 10: just mow her down.
Speaker 5: At the end.
Speaker 10: With a not a feminist film, I think it treats
Speaker 10: all of its characters fairly nihilistically, to be perfectly honest,
Speaker 10: So I don't think it's necessarily Click being one sided
Speaker 10: and in terms of how he has approached the gender
Speaker 10: of his characters.
Speaker 11: But it's grim all around.
Speaker 10: But it is particularly sad because she's the only, maybe
Speaker 10: the only redeemable character in the movie, and she's great
Speaker 10: Masha Robin, who did not appear in very many films,
Speaker 10: and like she basically Click tells the story that he
Speaker 10: met her when he was like playing music in a
Speaker 10: club in Munich, and they became friends, and then he
Speaker 10: didn't see her for a number of years. She was
Speaker 10: like very young at the time, and then thought of
Speaker 10: her again when he was casting for Deadlock. And I
Speaker 10: think Mike evencluded this deep Dechance film, this documentary about
Speaker 10: the casting of Jesse, where this big casting call was
Speaker 10: put out and many women tried out for the role,
Speaker 10: and then in the end he didn't pick any of them.
Speaker 11: He picked Masha Robin.
Speaker 10: We just remembered and then went to visit, like tracked
Speaker 10: her down at her mother's house and said realized that
Speaker 10: she was the perfect choice for the character and cast her.
Speaker 10: I think she'd only been in maybe one other film
Speaker 10: around the same time, and she only appeared. She was
Speaker 10: in World on a Wire by Fossbender, she was in
Speaker 10: Wernersh Schrader's Salome, and maybe a handful of a couple
Speaker 10: of other things, and then she basically were In nineteen
Speaker 10: seventy five, she retired from films and never acted again.
Speaker 9: I'm very curious. She had two credits on IMDb, which
Speaker 9: I'm curious if they are her or someone else with
Speaker 9: the same name. There's a two writing credits Children of
Speaker 9: the X Files and Gemini Counters.
Speaker 10: That's probably her, Yeah, because just because I do know
Speaker 10: and click explains this is she lives in Los Angeles
Speaker 10: now and she's a writer and translator, so that it
Speaker 10: probably is her.
Speaker 11: But she didn't.
Speaker 10: She definitely didn't appear in any films after that. Because
Speaker 10: she's still around. I'm slightly disappointed that we don't get
Speaker 10: an interview out of her, because I would love to
Speaker 10: hear her side of what making this film was like,
Speaker 10: I don't know, maybe she just doesn't want to.
Speaker 9: I tried tracking her down so far nothing. So if
Speaker 9: the miracle happens before I put this episode out, i'll
Speaker 9: let you guys know. But so far Crickets with a
Speaker 9: writer director you get one less interview and then also
Speaker 9: with two of or three of the stars being passed away. Yeah,
Speaker 9: and I don't know if the train conductor's still with
Speaker 9: us or not.
Speaker 5: You never know.
Speaker 9: I love how dire the end of this movie is
Speaker 9: that it just cuts to black with the can music playing.
Speaker 9: There's no credits, no end card, nothing, and the way
Speaker 9: that the kid is just kind of wandering back to
Speaker 9: this mining town ish type thing. It's is he going
Speaker 9: to be the new dump? Is he just going to
Speaker 9: hang out here for the rest of his life? Or
Speaker 9: will he take the money and go do some terrorism?
Speaker 10: Like I was saying, it is a classic click ambivalent
Speaker 10: ending for sure. Yeah, Boomchen is great. I actually just
Speaker 10: watched that one for the first time preparing for this
Speaker 10: because I really wanted to see it and like have
Speaker 10: some sort of background of clicks that's from nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 10: his first feature.
Speaker 11: It's great. It is so dark.
Speaker 10: It's about all it just briefly, it's about like a
Speaker 10: and again this is click taking from things that were
Speaker 10: going on at the time. Is basically a little boy
Speaker 10: who possibly accidentally, possibly intentionally kills his little sister. So
Speaker 10: just to give you an idea of like it's very
Speaker 10: sort of dark source material, and it came from Click
Speaker 10: reading about like children who kill, like around like there
Speaker 10: were some high profile news stories about like children who
Speaker 10: killers at the time, and that kind of inspired him
Speaker 10: to write this story.
Speaker 11: But that one is great. I've not seen White Star.
Speaker 9: From what I hear make a great double feature with Baxter,
Speaker 9: the Belgian film.
Speaker 11: Oh I don't know that one.
Speaker 9: Oh that's a good one. You should definitely check that one. Okay, Well, yeah,
Speaker 9: a boy and his dog and the boy is he's
Speaker 9: pretty twisted, so yeah, I highly recommend it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I haven't seen White Star either.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it sounds like it was a complicated Just to
Speaker 10: give everyone listening a little bit of backstory, you know,
Speaker 10: it's stick got Dennis Hopper early eighties, so you know,
Speaker 10: he was doing a lot of coke at the time,
Speaker 10: and that made filming the film is basically like the
Speaker 10: dates are between eighty one and eighty three because I
Speaker 10: think his performance and his like Click was saying like
Speaker 10: he couldn't even act more than two hours without like
Speaker 10: having a meltdown, and you know, like just that was
Speaker 10: very hard to get the film completed. So I think
Speaker 10: it's basically like, you know, I would want to see
Speaker 10: it for myself to judge personally, but you know, it
Speaker 10: was kind of considered a failure. Also interesting to note
Speaker 10: is that Click was originally the first choice director for
Speaker 10: the movie Christiana f So he was involved in like
Speaker 10: the casting and and and again this is sort of
Speaker 10: something similar to what he did in Supermarket is he
Speaker 10: you know, he went around to like the what is
Speaker 10: it the bon hof Zo like you know, and like
Speaker 10: talk to like teenage junkies, and you know, like really
Speaker 10: wanted to like cast people who were part of this
Speaker 10: world and you know, give it this elements of realism.
Speaker 10: And for whatever reason, he got into a bunch of
Speaker 10: disagreements with the producer was eventually kicked off the project.
Speaker 10: But it would have really been interesting to see what
Speaker 10: he would have done with that story. I think, so
Speaker 10: that was kind of sort of a missed opportunity for him.
Speaker 10: And then so he went on to make White Star,
Speaker 10: and then he made like one or two basically one
Speaker 10: or two more features that are like quite hard to
Speaker 10: track down, and then he just stopped making films altogether
Speaker 10: and just taught and did writing and stuff like that.
Speaker 11: So basically, like you know, he stopped making movies around
Speaker 11: like the end of the eighties.
Speaker 10: So he doesn't have I mean, he does have some
Speaker 10: early films which I haven't seen. I'd also really like
Speaker 10: to see those. He considers this short film Ludwig that
Speaker 10: he made in nineteen sixty four. I believe he considers
Speaker 10: that his best film. It's like a black and white
Speaker 10: film about like a village idiot. It's like two it's
Speaker 10: very minimal, just like few There's a trailer on Vimeo that.
Speaker 11: You can watch.
Speaker 10: But he considers that his best film out of everything
Speaker 10: he did. And like I said, he doesn't have like
Speaker 10: a huge filmography, but which is a shame because I
Speaker 10: think if he didn't, but because he had such a
Speaker 10: singular vision about what he wanted to do and how
Speaker 10: he wanted to do it, that he self financed a
Speaker 10: lot of things. So a lot of times he just
Speaker 10: had trouble coming up with money for to materialize projects
Speaker 10: or he just turned down things. Apparently Steven Spielberg I think,
Speaker 10: wanted to work with him at some point after Deadlock,
Speaker 10: and he had opportunities to go to Hollywood, and he
Speaker 10: just said no, he just didn't want to do it.
Speaker 10: It was too He felt again that you could really
Speaker 10: use this as an argument against people who want to
Speaker 10: say that he was a commercial filmmaker and all he
Speaker 10: wanted to do is make money in popular movies. Is
Speaker 10: he had penty opportunity to make money hand over fists
Speaker 10: and make huge Hollywood movies, and he just said, I'm not.
Speaker 11: Going to do that.
Speaker 12: This is one of the things that's interesting about fiction
Speaker 12: narrative film as an art form, and it goes across
Speaker 12: different national cinemas.
Speaker 5: Is that what makes somebody an outsider, as you were
Speaker 5: mentioning insider versus outsider. Someone can even be an insider,
Speaker 5: but if they have the wrong attitude, by which I
Speaker 5: mean the willingness to go make.
Speaker 12: Something that you're not as interested in, so that then
Speaker 12: you might have the chance of making something the one
Speaker 12: for them, one for me planned that a lot of
Speaker 12: people have when they're trying to make more personal kinds
Speaker 12: of projects. That's actually a kind of thing that can
Speaker 12: land you as an outsider, no matter how inside or
Speaker 12: how well you can command the mechanism. That's really interesting
Speaker 12: about him, I think and about it a number of filmmakers.
Speaker 12: It's obviously it's extremely rare to end up in a
Speaker 12: kind of David Lynch sort of position of only making
Speaker 12: really personal kinds of projects, only making the things that
Speaker 12: you really want to after a certain point in your career,
Speaker 12: and having a mechanism around you. But even in that case,
Speaker 12: we know, sort of infamously from Post Inland Empire, David Lynch,
Speaker 12: you know, you had a number of projects, you know,
Speaker 12: and one infamously with Netflix with Styria that you know,
Speaker 12: just sort of fell apart. But you know, you have
Speaker 12: these very few examples of filmmakers who can really only
Speaker 12: work on the personal projects, and then others, you know,
Speaker 12: I think, like Click, the way that you're describing his
Speaker 12: career puts him as an outsider simply because he's approaching
Speaker 12: this a little bit more as an artist and as
Speaker 12: a personal filmmaker, and that no matter what national cinema
Speaker 12: you're working in, the mechanism is too big for a
Speaker 12: lot of people.
Speaker 9: To do that love the fact that he worked with Hopper,
Speaker 9: and I would be very curious to see that because
Speaker 9: I know it's not necessarily his in the Wilderness period,
Speaker 9: which I would consider it to be a little bit
Speaker 9: more like mid seventies when Hopper's making things like crush
Speaker 9: Proof and the and I don't know the American Friend
Speaker 9: is mainstream, but mad Dog Morgan he was definitely off
Speaker 9: a rocker. It's just so interesting to track his career
Speaker 9: because man, oh man, just even right around the same
Speaker 9: time it was like Rumblefish, Austerman Weekend, Human Highway. It's like,
Speaker 9: these are just amazing and amazingly different films.
Speaker 11: And out of the blue as well.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, after a White Star comes out, and I know,
Speaker 9: again the timeline is always weird with when you shot
Speaker 9: it versus when it comes out. There's one called Inside
Speaker 9: Man where he's a submarine or something where it's like
Speaker 9: based on a real incident of a Russian submarine that
Speaker 9: was in Swedish waters. I'm just like, okay, sure, yeah,
Speaker 9: let me track that one down and try to see it.
Speaker 9: What a wild career. And yeah, I'm like you said,
Speaker 9: I'm very into seeing more of these click films.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 11: I highly recommend.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a great beginning, and actually this conversation
Speaker 5: makes me want to rewatch Deadlock, because maybe it's one
Speaker 5: that requires some repeat viewings to at least get me
Speaker 5: to the place that I'm fully appreciating everything that's in it.
Speaker 9: Well, from your comments here, it doesn't sound like you
Speaker 9: didn't appreciate it at all.
Speaker 5: So no, I did, but I honestly got at a
Speaker 5: certain point. I'm just listening to you guys, because I
Speaker 5: had a.
Speaker 12: Certain kind of experience where I guess I would say
Speaker 12: this is esthetically I was really into it, but it
Speaker 12: became a little empty for me at a certain point.
Speaker 12: And I think that's maybe more on me than it
Speaker 12: is on the film, because certainly by the end, I
Speaker 12: was like, I gotta see Supermarket, I gotta see other
Speaker 12: films by click. This is a really great director. I
Speaker 12: just don't know if I totally vibed with this one,
Speaker 12: But I don't know. Maybe my next viewing will be
Speaker 12: the one where I'd totally vibe.
Speaker 9: All Right, We're going to take a break and play
Speaker 9: a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.
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Speaker 9: We're taking a little break from Westerns and talking about
Speaker 9: the Outfit in a celebration of the new Blu ray release,
Speaker 9: which features a commentary track from Jedediah Ayers and myself
Speaker 9: until then and whyt' they my co host, Jessica and Spencer. So, Spencer,
Speaker 9: what's the latest with you?
Speaker 6: Sir?
Speaker 5: It's summer, so I'm finishing a movie. That's as much
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Speaker 9: And Jessica, what's new.
Speaker 5: In your world?
Speaker 10: Back in April, I was very excited to be invited
Speaker 10: to co introduce screening of the Image, which I previously
Speaker 10: did an episode of the production Booth for in New
Speaker 10: York at the Metrograph with Ashley West and Rob King,
Speaker 10: who wrote the book on Radley Mesco. Was really fun
Speaker 10: to meet them and get to talk about the film in.
Speaker 11: Front of an audience. It was brief, but.
Speaker 10: And then later I guess if this is going to
Speaker 10: go live in July, I'll probably be the same month.
Speaker 10: But I was on Sam Deagan's Aerosplus Mass past to
Speaker 10: do an episode with her, and I'll i won't say
Speaker 10: what it was about.
Speaker 11: I'll leave that to be a surprise.
Speaker 10: But it was a great time and I loved Obviously,
Speaker 10: Sam is wonderful and I it was a great time
Speaker 10: just getting to talk with her about one of our
Speaker 10: mutual favorite filmmakers.
Speaker 9: Thank you so much, folks for being on the show.
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