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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five KRC DE Talk Station eight thirty on this

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<v Speaker 1>Tuesday morning, Tax Day twenty twenty five, Dan Carroll hanging

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<v Speaker 1>out for Brian Thomas and get to welcome in another

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<v Speaker 1>great guest. Steve Gorm is the executive director of the

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<v Speaker 1>Climate Science Coalition of America. He is the author of

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<v Speaker 1>four books on energy, climate change, and sustainable development. He's

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<v Speaker 1>got over one hundred thousand copies in print. His latest

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<v Speaker 1>book is The Green Breakdown Becoming Renewable Energy Failure and

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Gorm, it is great once again to welcome you

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<v Speaker 1>to the radio and fifty five KRC. How are you today, sir?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Dan, I'm doing great. Great to join you on

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<v Speaker 2>this text day.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, tax Day. I hope you've got all your I'm sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've got everything squared away and you're ready

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<v Speaker 1>to Absolutely absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>I did way too much. But while we have huge,

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<v Speaker 2>huge changes going on in climate policy and energy right now,

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<v Speaker 2>just big, big things, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, before we get to that, let me ask

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<v Speaker 1>you a question. You know, we live in historic time, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course we had the spectacle yesterday of the

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<v Speaker 1>Blue Origin rocketing into space and the six women up

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<v Speaker 1>there doing God knows what they were, and we've got

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<v Speaker 1>the audio of what they were doing up there. But uh,

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<v Speaker 1>before the before the rocket took off, CBS was doing

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<v Speaker 1>an interview with former astronaut doctor May Jamison, and one

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<v Speaker 1>of the comments she made talking about the importance of

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<v Speaker 1>this historic space flight was that that she claimed, and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how the spaceflight figures into this, but

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<v Speaker 1>she claimed that the Earth already no longer has an

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<v Speaker 1>atmosphere that supports our life form. And I'm looking at

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<v Speaker 1>that and I'm thinking about that, Well, if the Earth

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<v Speaker 1>is not supporting our life form, how is it that

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<v Speaker 1>you and I are here in order to have this

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<v Speaker 1>this discussion today, and that that she's out there still

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<v Speaker 1>drawing bread.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not sure what she meant what she meant

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<v Speaker 2>about that, that's uh, I mean, did she mention climate

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<v Speaker 2>at all? Is that what she was alluding to?

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<v Speaker 1>Because but again, while she was talking about how, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're all humans and we're all connected to the Earth,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, when you go up and view the

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<v Speaker 1>Earth from you know, wherever they were re viewing it from,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, makes it makes you realize how fragile the

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<v Speaker 1>Earth is and that the you know, that somehow we

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we just don't aren't able to support life

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<v Speaker 1>here on Earth anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Humans certainly have had a big, a big impact on

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<v Speaker 2>the surface of the Earth. Of course, we've we have

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<v Speaker 2>farmed it, and we have cut down forest. We've done

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of things to transform the surface of the Earth.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if the atmosphere has changed that much. So,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, even the amounts that that humans emit in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of carbon dioxide is only about one or two

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<v Speaker 2>percent of well it's it's less than five percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the CO two that nature puts into the atmosphere by itself.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're pretty small in terms of what's going on

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<v Speaker 2>with the atmosphere. So I don't really understand her comments there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, as CBS was also making the point that

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<v Speaker 1>scientific experiments were being conducted on this flight. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole thing lasted eleven minutes. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>to are you aware of any scientific experiments that can

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<v Speaker 1>be conducted in that spent a time?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a short one. Well, they probably had some electronic

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<v Speaker 2>sensors that were sensing something. But you know, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things mister Trump has said is that in his

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<v Speaker 2>administration is that NASA now and this wasn't a NASA thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was a private thing. But NASA must

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<v Speaker 2>stick to space and flights into space, and they're no

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<v Speaker 2>longer able to do climate anymore. Really a tremendous change.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're cutting about two thirds of the budget that's

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<v Speaker 2>associated anyway with climate change at NASA. So there's just

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<v Speaker 2>some huge, huge policy changes in process.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And speaking of Trump, Trump put out a and

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<v Speaker 1>executive order that deals with American energy and it talks

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<v Speaker 1>about overreach and things like that. How does that play

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<v Speaker 1>into the whole scope of climate policy in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this just happened last week, and this is a

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<v Speaker 2>big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>The President.

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<v Speaker 2>Issued an executive order called Protecting American Energy from State Overreach,

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<v Speaker 2>and he said that state laws were seeking to regulate

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<v Speaker 2>energy beyond their constitutional statutory authorities, and he actually called

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<v Speaker 2>them extortion laws. And he mentioned New York, in Vermont,

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<v Speaker 2>and California, and he directed the US Attorney General of

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<v Speaker 2>Pam Bondi to identify these laws that were burdening domestic

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<v Speaker 2>energy resources or may or may not be unconstitutional, preempted

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<v Speaker 2>by federal law, or otherwise unenforceable. Within sixty days and

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<v Speaker 2>to recommend actions to change this. So we're actually going

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<v Speaker 2>to we have the federal government that are suing the

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<v Speaker 2>states for their climate laws. This has not happened to

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<v Speaker 2>my knowledge, to any extent over the last years. Really

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<v Speaker 2>a huge change, and we haven't heard much about it

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<v Speaker 2>in the press.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, if the press has their way, anything that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't fit their particular climate narrative, we won't hear much

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<v Speaker 1>about it at all. I want to ask you about

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<v Speaker 1>solar panels and windmills, but we got to get to

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<v Speaker 1>a quick break here, So Steve Gorham, if you would

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<v Speaker 1>just hang on and we'll get right back to you

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<v Speaker 1>as we roll on on fifty five KRC, the Talk Station.

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<v Speaker 2>This is fifty five KRC and iHeartRadio Station.

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<v Speaker 1>The Talk station, continuing our conversation with Steve Gorham, executive

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<v Speaker 1>director of the Climate Science Coalition of America. And Steve Gorham.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that Donald Trump has done is

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<v Speaker 1>imposed tariffs on China, and this is going to have

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty major effect on China because they send us

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<v Speaker 1>so many solar panels and so many elements that are

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<v Speaker 1>involved in the construction of an operating of the windmills

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<v Speaker 1>and the turbines and all that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is going to be the biggest impact. He

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<v Speaker 2>has kept ten percent tariffs on every nation. He also

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<v Speaker 2>has twenty five percent on steel, aluminum, and automobiles. He's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much backed off on everything else. I think he's negotiating.

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<v Speaker 2>They're negotiating with more than one hundred countries now over

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<v Speaker 2>the next ninety days. But China has not said they

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<v Speaker 2>want to negotiate. They've just retaliated with terraffs, and so

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<v Speaker 2>now China and the US both have terrors over one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred percent on imports and exports, I think. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is really, as you say, this is going to hammer

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<v Speaker 2>a renewable energy equipment. Eighty percent of the world's solar

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<v Speaker 2>cells and panels are made by China or they are

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<v Speaker 2>using components from China. Also, these big grid scale batteries

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<v Speaker 2>that California and New York and some other states want

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<v Speaker 2>to put in place to back up wind and solar,

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<v Speaker 2>most of those batteries, or at least the metals for

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<v Speaker 2>the batteries come from China. And so these prices are

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<v Speaker 2>going to skyrocket. It's going to have a huge impact

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<v Speaker 2>and just another another problem with green equipment, green Energy,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just going to stop stop by green Energy and

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<v Speaker 2>its tracks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and with and with all the subsidies that are

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<v Speaker 1>being cut off as well. We are seeing and the

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<v Speaker 1>reports still come in almost daily of this wind farm

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<v Speaker 1>that is shutting down, this solar panel project that is

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<v Speaker 1>that has run out of money. And I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if I've had a chance to ask you about this,

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<v Speaker 1>but I know I read an article not that long

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<v Speaker 1>ago talking about once these solar panels come to the

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<v Speaker 1>end of their life, that we really don't have a

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<v Speaker 1>good way to dispose of these solar panels because I

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<v Speaker 1>guess they're necessarily going to have to go into a landfill.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's so many toxic chemicals that are involved in

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<v Speaker 1>producing these solar panels that eventually these things leach out

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<v Speaker 1>into the ground and calls all sorts of other problems

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<v Speaker 1>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. I think I think most of our landfills now

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<v Speaker 2>have canvas and other things to prevent stuff from leaching.

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<v Speaker 2>But the amount of waste really is huge. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's when you're using hydrocarbons, you're basically burning up the

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<v Speaker 2>fuel and there's nothing left except the water, vapor and

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<v Speaker 2>the carbon acid that goes in the atmosphere. And you

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<v Speaker 2>don't replace power plants, you know, maybe once every fifty

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<v Speaker 2>sixty years, but if you're replacing the solar panels every

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years. Now in California, for example, our federal agencies

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<v Speaker 2>have said it costs about twenty to twenty five dollars

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<v Speaker 2>to try and recycle materials from a solar panel, but

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<v Speaker 2>you only get about four dollars worth of useful metals

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<v Speaker 2>out of it. And if you were to send it

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<v Speaker 2>to the landfill and only costs one or two dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>So nobody's going to recycle these things unless there's huge

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<v Speaker 2>state or federal subsidies to do so, they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>send them to landfills. And so as we put more

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<v Speaker 2>and more of these in, we send them to landfills.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I sent you a little image of

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<v Speaker 2>this picture in New York, which is also in my

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<v Speaker 2>last book, Green Breakdown. There's a congressman standing next to

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<v Speaker 2>this huge pile of wind turbine blades, which which is

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<v Speaker 2>thirty forty feet high in New York. And when the

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<v Speaker 2>wind turbines blades we're out, they have to they have

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<v Speaker 2>to chop them up or burn them, they're too big

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<v Speaker 2>for landfills. It's it's really a significant problem that is

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<v Speaker 2>getting bigger and bigger as we put more of these

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<v Speaker 2>things in.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm looking I'm looking at it right now. It

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<v Speaker 1>is it is an astonishing photograph, and I think, really

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<v Speaker 1>it gets to the point of just the absolute mountain

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<v Speaker 1>of waste that these things create. All right, have you

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<v Speaker 1>been surprised at all by the amount of waste frawden

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<v Speaker 1>abuse that Lee Zelden has uncovered at the EPA.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I you know, it really is amazing. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>mister Musk and his Doage group has gone through a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of those and I just I just wrote an

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<v Speaker 2>article about the Department of Defense. Pete Haigseth has said,

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<v Speaker 2>we do not do climate change crap, and he's cutting

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<v Speaker 2>out all the climate programs. But listen to some of

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<v Speaker 2>these programs. They published a paper in twenty twenty two

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<v Speaker 2>lauding the things they did in they did in climate.

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<v Speaker 2>This was the US Navy lauding the different different things

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<v Speaker 2>they did for the climates, and one of them was

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<v Speaker 2>studying climate change in the Mekong Delta of Vietnam with

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<v Speaker 2>the government of Vietnam. This is a Navy project. Another

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<v Speaker 2>one was a California organic recycling and composting Another one

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<v Speaker 2>was a partnership with the Armed Forces of Ghana to

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<v Speaker 2>combat vector born diseases. This is the United States Navy

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<v Speaker 2>putting money out for these things. None of these things

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<v Speaker 2>improved Navy military readiness in any way. And this is

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<v Speaker 2>just and you know, I just found this look at online.

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<v Speaker 2>It's off that the Navy was publishing. There's this, there's

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<v Speaker 2>this analyst amounts of this government money that's going into

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that doesn't do anything really useful as far as

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<v Speaker 2>military purposes.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you know, it wasn't that long ago. We had

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<v Speaker 1>a commander in chief and a chairman of the Joint

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<v Speaker 1>Chiefs of Staff tell our graduating cadets at the Army

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<v Speaker 1>and our midshipman at the Navy that the number one

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<v Speaker 1>threat to America was climate change. You know that, Never

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<v Speaker 1>mind Russia, never mind North Korea, never mind China, it's

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<v Speaker 1>climate change. And I love this chart you put out

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<v Speaker 1>of US military emissions by service and equipment type. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you've got the Air Force has got fifty

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<v Speaker 1>six percent of emissions. And then you know, different aircraft

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<v Speaker 1>than the Navy and then you got a little small

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<v Speaker 1>sliver down there with the Marine Corps only puts out

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<v Speaker 1>five percent of our emissions. That would figure that. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're probably the most efficient out of all the military services.

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<v Speaker 1>And they've got, you know, the I guess, the smallest

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<v Speaker 1>carbon footprint you can possibly have.

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<v Speaker 2>That came from the Department of Defense, and President Biden

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<v Speaker 2>hit them all marching down this, we're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>climate stuff. I mean, the Army even was going to

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<v Speaker 2>take all of its field technical vehicles, including the heavy ones,

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<v Speaker 2>including tanks, and run them on electric engines. And they

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<v Speaker 2>also they were developing battlefield chargers. If you can imagine,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to drive chargers out, sit them somewhere and

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<v Speaker 2>have these tanks sitting next to them for an hour

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<v Speaker 2>or two at a time. I mean, this stuff is fantasy.

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<v Speaker 2>It does nothing for our military capability. It's just there

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<v Speaker 2>for climates. And Pete higgsuff is cutting all this stuff out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, thank god. I don't know how anyone in

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<v Speaker 1>their right mind could look at that and in a

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<v Speaker 1>practical sense think that that is a good idea. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Steve Gorham, I mean that's the thing to me,

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<v Speaker 1>was so much of this stuff that in a practical

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<v Speaker 1>sense and when you you know, when you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the economics of it, and you know, and everything else

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<v Speaker 1>that goes into all the you know, the different wind

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<v Speaker 1>turbines and the solar panels and green energy this and

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<v Speaker 1>the biofuels and everything else that and on economic sense,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, none of this stuff exists but for government subsidies.

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<v Speaker 1>And once you wipe those out, well, these are these

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<v Speaker 1>things they fold like a chief suit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're gonna have a lot of bankruptcies too with

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<v Speaker 2>all this stuff. As you say, cutting funding across all

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<v Speaker 2>these different industries, we're also they're also laying off a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of headcount. I mentioned NASA and Noah, but they're

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<v Speaker 2>they're cutting headcount. The Environmental Protection Agency, they just shut

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<v Speaker 2>down a museum at the Environmental Protection Agency. They had

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<v Speaker 2>their own museum, but it costs per visitor. It was

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<v Speaker 2>costing them over three hundred dollars because they didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>any visitors. The museum was expensive. Well, anyway, lies all

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<v Speaker 2>them to shuttle it down. The Federal Energy Management Agency

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<v Speaker 2>is shutting down their climate programs as well. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you have anything any research project that says climate on it,

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<v Speaker 2>that is going away in the federal government. Mister Trump

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<v Speaker 2>is completely transforming it top to bottom.

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<v Speaker 1>So with your book, is green breakdown the coming renewable

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<v Speaker 1>energy failure? Are we already here? Have we reached that

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<v Speaker 1>stage already with the renewable energy failure? Is that upon

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<v Speaker 1>us right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Now? This is quicker than I expected. I thought this

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<v Speaker 2>would take several decades, and it probably will around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>But mister Trump is accelerating this green breakdown. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>very readable book. It has the science economics, and it

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<v Speaker 2>also got one hundred and fifty color side bars. One

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<v Speaker 2>of those is this headline Britain's advice to stop showering

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<v Speaker 2>to conserve energy, And there was also a minister in

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<v Speaker 2>Switzerland who said that people should shower with a friend

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<v Speaker 2>to conserve energy. But you know, these are the crazy

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<v Speaker 2>things that are going on. But the book captures all

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<v Speaker 2>this funny stuff and gives people the real background they

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<v Speaker 2>need to see the crazy state the world is in

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<v Speaker 2>and how it's going to change.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, you and I always talk when these

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<v Speaker 1>world climate gatherings take place, you know, under the auspices

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<v Speaker 1>of the United Nations or whatever organization it is. If

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<v Speaker 1>the United States no longer is going to participate in

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<v Speaker 1>these sort of events. Do they have any impact, any

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<v Speaker 1>meaning at all if the United States isn't there.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, right off the bat, there's about eight billion dollars

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<v Speaker 2>a year that comes out of it. Mister Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>shut that off. As part of the USA they were

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<v Speaker 2>giving money, and then the US federal government was giving money.

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<v Speaker 2>That's been shut off. And it is a big thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I do think that this is different than his

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<v Speaker 2>first term. I think the world is ready. By the way,

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<v Speaker 2>a friend of mine, doctor Benny Piyser in Europe, says

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<v Speaker 2>that people are just jaded with his climate stuff. He

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<v Speaker 2>thinks more than half the population over there doesn't believe

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<v Speaker 2>what leaders is telling him anymore. So I think we're

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<v Speaker 2>about to see a big revolution. People are going to

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<v Speaker 2>get out of the climate business. We're going to get

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<v Speaker 2>back to sensible energy policy. But it is going to

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<v Speaker 2>take quite a bit more for this to occur.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, and I don't know if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to answer this question or not, but with all this

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<v Speaker 1>money that was changing hands, what percentage of that was

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<v Speaker 1>finding its way into the pockets of a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these people who promote this sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there is a bunch of that, I think Leezeldon

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<v Speaker 2>and the EPA has pointed out that there was something

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty billion dollars that the EPA granted in the

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<v Speaker 2>last couple months of the Trump administration to a number

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<v Speaker 2>of non governmental organizations to do climate stuff. It went

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<v Speaker 2>to I think the City Bank or somebody. There really

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a lot of audit on it or tracking, just

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<v Speaker 2>a big shoveling of money. So you know, I've always

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<v Speaker 2>said the biggest the bigger government gets, the more waste

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<v Speaker 2>you have. And we really need the lean government. We

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<v Speaker 2>need to get back to the markets and let companies

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<v Speaker 2>do their sorts of thing, and these programs that forced

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<v Speaker 2>everybody to do certain things to try and save the

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<v Speaker 2>climate are really very foolish.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, Steve Gorham, with that, we will let

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<v Speaker 1>you go. If people want to find out more about

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<v Speaker 1>you and the Climate Science Coalition of America, how do

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<v Speaker 1>they do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Go to my website Steve Goorham dot com. G O

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<v Speaker 2>R E H A M. I'll send them a sign

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<v Speaker 2>copy of any of my four books they can order.

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<v Speaker 2>They can also get them on Amazon and there are

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<v Speaker 2>e books available as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Gorham always appreciate the time, Thank you, sir, and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll do it again before too long.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you Dan.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, there you go, Steve Gorham of the client,

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<v Speaker 1>the Climate Science Coalition of America. A little late for

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<v Speaker 1>a break here on fifty five KRC DE talk Station

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five KRC