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Speaker 2: Oh hey, it's that older guy at the beach watching
Speaker 2: the sun set who claps when it's done. Ali Ward
Speaker 2: back with a very very giddy episode of Ologies up top.
Speaker 2: I want to let you know this guest has a
Speaker 2: website now para herpetologica dot com. The link is in
Speaker 2: the show notes, so if you want to be looking
Speaker 2: at any of his photography while we talk, you can
Speaker 2: go to that order his instagram which is in the
Speaker 2: show notes. Also, you can buy his prints on his website.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Kyle Sleeper of now Labs for putting
Speaker 2: that together and the guest also has a Patreon. It
Speaker 2: is linked in the show notes. You can directly support
Speaker 2: his work and see all kinds of unreleased photos and
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. So go to his website, follow him
Speaker 2: on Instagram, and support him at Patreon. Okay on with
Speaker 2: the intro. Thank you to everyone who keeps ologies up
Speaker 2: among the science goliaths in the podcast charts by making
Speaker 2: sure you're subscribed and by rating, by of course reviewing
Speaker 2: the show. I read all of the reviews. I pick
Speaker 2: a hot, steamy fresh one each week to read, and
Speaker 2: this one was from Plexo nine to one who says
Speaker 2: ologies makes me feel like I'm in the best classroom
Speaker 2: discussion on a rainy day with a sub hi brace.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Also, Hello to Majestic Worm and why
Speaker 2: do I need a nickname? Who both drive delivery trucks
Speaker 2: and are tuning in so let's keep these good vibes
Speaker 2: roll in with a periology And it just did not
Speaker 2: have a specific ology. I looked at every quarter of
Speaker 2: the internet for one. It didn't exist. But this guest
Speaker 2: is someone you heard on the Black af and Stem
Speaker 2: episode we did last month, and I love his work
Speaker 2: so much. I just wanted to know more about his
Speaker 2: wildlife macrophotography process. He has so many fans who are
Speaker 2: ologies listeners, so I asked Patreon what ology this would
Speaker 2: even be, and Zultan and Sarah both suggested nature picture
Speaker 2: taking ology. Rob Hover offered wildlife portraitology. Emily's dad and
Speaker 2: Rachel de guff both said close up ologist. But then
Speaker 2: patron Ellen Silva suggested a periology from the Latin apario,
Speaker 2: meaning to open or reveal, and Ellen wrote of this
Speaker 2: guest's work that these photos certainly reveal a world of detail.
Speaker 2: Also bonus, I was like, yes, a pario an aperture
Speaker 2: of the camera also opening different spaces both physically and
Speaker 2: culturally for more people to be included. So yes, a
Speaker 2: pariology it is, thank you, Ellen, a word was coined
Speaker 2: just for this episode. Never before, who have we done
Speaker 2: that on ologies. I'm usually very strict that theology exists elsewhere,
Speaker 2: but this one is just a very rare special occasion,
Speaker 2: and I'm thrilled that there is now a periology. So
Speaker 2: we're gonna be chatting about the magnificent art and science,
Speaker 2: which you can see on his website again Paraherpetologica dot
Speaker 2: com linked in the show notes side note. A macrophoto
Speaker 2: is technically one in which the size of the subject
Speaker 2: on the film or the image sensor is life size
Speaker 2: or larger, so his artwork is larger than life. Scientifically speaking,
Speaker 2: his Instagram at Reels on Wheels is just a gallery
Speaker 2: of pensive, praying mantises and dead on stares from beetles,
Speaker 2: the cutest spiders with the most cartoony eyes, and more.
Speaker 2: And as a lifelong bug lover, I was hooked on
Speaker 2: his work as soon as I saw it, and he
Speaker 2: now has thirteen thousand followers on Instagram, most of them
Speaker 2: just from the last few weeks. It's climbing so fast
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised to see him break like one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand in the next few months. So follow him
Speaker 2: on there. And also, by chance, this episode coincides perfectly
Speaker 2: with Disability Pride month as we celebrate the July nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety passing of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So let's
Speaker 2: celebrate that with a glass of iced tea and listen
Speaker 2: to his process his relationships with animals. Why we should
Speaker 2: appreciate the slithery, the scaly, the buggy, the leggy creatures, Lenses,
Speaker 2: cheap gear hacks, which spiders are the cutest, his macro
Speaker 2: photography mentors, the best place to photograph inverts, and more. Also,
Speaker 2: you may hear some beautiful chirping in the background, and
Speaker 2: you have to listen to the whole episode to find
Speaker 2: out what kind of bird it is. Just think of
Speaker 2: it as a lovely hello from nature. So get ready
Speaker 2: for your eyes and ears and world to open with
Speaker 2: the wisdom and the creativity of wildlife photographer and the
Speaker 2: world's first ever a periologist. Jay Demonroe Online aka Joseph Saunders.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to talk to you. I feel like
Speaker 2: you're my auntsel Adams. You're like my Annie Leavis, like
Speaker 2: my favorite photographer. So this is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2: I need to I'm gonna have to play it much
Speaker 2: cooler than this because I'm like, seriously so struck to
Speaker 2: talk to you. So how long have you been doing photography?
Speaker 2: Did you like the outdoors in nature first or did
Speaker 2: you like photography first.
Speaker 3: I've always been a herber at heart. I grew up
Speaker 3: in San Antonio, Texas. Also, just as quick aside, I'm
Speaker 3: actually I was originally born in California. Oh, I don't
Speaker 3: know if you're from California, but I realized I could
Speaker 3: sciarra out that way. I was born in Tinker Air
Speaker 3: Force Base in Fairfield.
Speaker 2: No way, I know exactly where that is. How long
Speaker 2: were you out in California before you moved to Texas?
Speaker 3: Not long enough to have any of some memories. I
Speaker 3: think I moved from California when I was about three,
Speaker 3: so I really don't remember any of it. My upbringing
Speaker 3: really resides mostly in San Antonio, in a little bit
Speaker 3: in Phoenix, Arizona. But so back to San Antonio. So
Speaker 3: San Antonio. Chelsea one of the other members of Blackefe
Speaker 3: and Stem, she studies and oles, and that was my
Speaker 3: spark animal. It was the green and ole. Yes, like
Speaker 3: the green and ole got me completely obsessed with reptiles,
Speaker 3: amphibians and all that stuff. They're everywhere in San Antonio,
Speaker 3: green and oles and Mediterranean geckos. Like I go back
Speaker 3: to my brothers who still lives there, and like I
Speaker 3: cannot wait to get there because I just start like
Speaker 3: searching around his house looking for an oles so I
Speaker 3: can sow my nieces a nephew.
Speaker 2: Of course, growing up in the desert in Arizona. In
Speaker 2: San Antonio, that must have been like the best kind
Speaker 2: of animal to see these wizards.
Speaker 3: So like the crazy thing is and I slap myself
Speaker 3: every time it comes to mind, but I also have
Speaker 3: to remind myself of reasons to be I was not
Speaker 3: really involved in herpetology or a better culture in any
Speaker 3: kind of way. When I lived in Arizona. I went
Speaker 3: to high school in Arizona. My mom got stationed at
Speaker 3: Luke Air Force Base. I'm so grateful for it because
Speaker 3: the friends that I had there, they were the generation
Speaker 3: that followed a lot of the conflict between the War
Speaker 3: on drugs and the history surrounding that in Oakland, California,
Speaker 3: and a lot of them left Oakland like seeking a
Speaker 3: better life, and they taught me so much about black
Speaker 3: life that I had no idea because one I was
Speaker 3: raised by white parents. My biological mother is white and
Speaker 3: also in the military. So I mean, we're like completely
Speaker 3: like cut off from like the reality is we think,
Speaker 3: you know, our entire bubble is just air force. That
Speaker 3: was my coming to reality moment, was my friendship with them,
Speaker 3: and I'm so grateful to them to this day because
Speaker 3: you know that they they opened me up to learn
Speaker 3: so much more more about blackness about the justice issues
Speaker 3: that we are facing now. And there's no way that
Speaker 3: I could have been the person that I am not
Speaker 3: without them.
Speaker 2: So Joseph moved to Phoenix at fifteen, and it was
Speaker 2: there that this community many people who were driven out
Speaker 2: from Oakland and the Bay Area because of the racial
Speaker 2: underpinnings of this so called war on drugs, and these
Speaker 2: people opened his eyes to his own culture. And he
Speaker 2: also recalled a close friend who, when they were just teens,
Speaker 2: was brutally assaulted by two police officers after just walking
Speaker 2: into a convenience store in a white neighborhood. And Joseph
Speaker 2: says that that was a moment when he really had
Speaker 2: to face the reality of the disparities between how black
Speaker 2: people and white people see the issue of racism through
Speaker 2: their own lenses, and his white family didn't always understand.
Speaker 2: But he made friends who did you know.
Speaker 3: The great thing is is while the military are growing up,
Speaker 3: you know a military brad. It did grant me by
Speaker 3: best friend who I very very firmly say is my
Speaker 3: brother because we were in kindergarten together and we've been
Speaker 3: together ever since. He was the other black person that
Speaker 3: I knew that actually liked animals and the weird ones
Speaker 3: as much as I did. Like, we were in kindergarten
Speaker 3: together and we would have library days where we would
Speaker 3: go from our classroom over the library and he and
Speaker 3: I would basically barter over which one of us got
Speaker 3: to read the snake book, the spider book, the shark book,
Speaker 3: and it was like, Okay, you get this one this week,
Speaker 3: and you know, you take this one this week, and
Speaker 3: then we would switch and we read the same ones
Speaker 3: over and over again. Like I can still picture like
Speaker 3: some of the photos, like one of them, I think
Speaker 3: the spider book had had a trap door spider on
Speaker 3: the cover of it. I'm so grateful for that because
Speaker 3: them they're my family, and we go back to San
Speaker 3: Antonio every year and it's been a week together with
Speaker 3: my three nieces and my nephew, and you know, that's
Speaker 3: my family. That is my very very black family. And
Speaker 3: also now I have black af and stem and that
Speaker 3: is you know, I have my family, and now I
Speaker 3: also have this amazing black naturalist community. Yeah. So as
Speaker 3: much as my relationship with my relatives on my mom's side,
Speaker 3: as hurtful as that really truly was, I have the support. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I have the foundation that I need to be able
Speaker 3: to go forth and continue.
Speaker 2: So you you started liking animals maybe before photography?
Speaker 3: Oh yes, so I had to. I had a hop
Speaker 3: on my own Facebook page real quick, because I didn't
Speaker 3: actually start taking photos with any sort of seriousness until
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Really yep, really, I wouldn't. I would have thought that
Speaker 2: it was a lot earlier, because you're really very good
Speaker 2: at it. What was it that started? Did you start
Speaker 2: taking iPhone picks or did you did you start by
Speaker 2: getting a camera and just taking it out, you know,
Speaker 2: whenever you go looking for herbs.
Speaker 3: So I'm almost ashamed of this just because of my
Speaker 3: circle of influence. Now, what got me into this is
Speaker 3: that I found out about people who breathe various like
Speaker 3: high end morphs of ball pythons when I was in college,
Speaker 3: and I that's what I do. Now, that's that's my
Speaker 3: own business. I'm regularly employed. I have my own employer,
Speaker 3: but my own small businesses. I read ball pythons.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: So so what I what I found out was I
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, so how do I actually take good
Speaker 3: photos of my animals to make sure that you know
Speaker 3: I'm you know, doing good advertising in this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: And someone's like, you know, you need to get a
Speaker 3: decent camera. And then somebody said one time that you
Speaker 3: know you need to get a decent macro lens because
Speaker 3: baby snakes are small. You know, you got to make
Speaker 3: sure that you know you get the right equipment. I
Speaker 3: was like, all right, cool, So I got an old
Speaker 3: can and T five I back in twenty thirteen, I think,
Speaker 3: and I think it's set on the shelf for a
Speaker 3: good long while because I didn't know what to do
Speaker 3: with it. And after someone mentioned the macro lens, I
Speaker 3: got the Canon one hundred millimeter and I went and
Speaker 3: I was running around the park and playing with it,
Speaker 3: and I realized that I could fit a cricket's head
Speaker 3: in the entire frame many cricket and my mind just
Speaker 3: exploded it and I've just been going completely nuts ever since.
Speaker 3: I was just like, this is too much fun. Bugs
Speaker 3: are everywhere. This is so it's not that it's easy,
Speaker 3: but it's accessible, Like you don't have to hike miles
Speaker 3: to find some sort of a rare species. It's what
Speaker 3: can you find in your own yard and how can
Speaker 3: you present it in such a way to change someone's
Speaker 3: mind and opinion about something that most people just like
Speaker 3: stomp on without you know, a second thought. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean that ties back into my earlier impression as as
Speaker 3: a herper is. You know, A big part of it
Speaker 3: was the recognition that this being before I guess being
Speaker 3: more becoming more confident and understanding of my blackness. I've
Speaker 3: been disabled since birth. I have spine of vivida, so
Speaker 3: I've used a chair all my life. So I've always felt,
Speaker 3: you know, some I've always felt empathy and some connection
Speaker 3: when it came to reptiles for a sense of not
Speaker 3: fitting in, for a sense of kind of persecution, not
Speaker 3: being enough. So I really attached onto reptiles kind of
Speaker 3: for that reason, like snakes, especially because I would grow
Speaker 3: up as a kid and watching like documentaries and you know,
Speaker 3: the various facts and David Att and Borrow talking about
Speaker 3: reptiles and this and that and.
Speaker 1: This is a horned lizard very beautiful too.
Speaker 3: What always stood out to me most was a few
Speaker 3: was a few things. One, how tough scales are. You know,
Speaker 3: they basically are just this form of armor that allows
Speaker 3: them to be able to withstand bites from their prey
Speaker 3: and or other predators, and you know, so on and
Speaker 3: so forth. It gives them this this la or protection.
Speaker 3: Another thing is being that you know, they can go weeks,
Speaker 3: maybe months without any water months, you know, if they
Speaker 3: have an adequate source of food, since they get about
Speaker 3: seventy percent of their water from their food that they
Speaker 3: actually eat, and they survive it. You know, you can
Speaker 3: put them in like like sidewinders in Arizona or horned vipers,
Speaker 3: stick them out in the middle of the desert, and
Speaker 3: they're fine, pretty good, pretty pretty, pretty pretty good. And
Speaker 3: I looked upon them as an example of as an
Speaker 3: example of resiliency, you know, an example of how to
Speaker 3: be tough, of how to survive, of how to not
Speaker 3: only not just survive just based off of what other
Speaker 3: people perceive as your limitations, but also how to survive
Speaker 3: when everybody else is against.
Speaker 2: You, if you're feeling overlooked or underestimated. Right, Yeah, how
Speaker 2: beautiful is that? The answer is very beautiful.
Speaker 3: So you know that connection for me and reptiles is
Speaker 3: I think that's why it's been the one thing that
Speaker 3: I've always that has just never gone away. Like, you know,
Speaker 3: I used to love sports. I still love sports, but
Speaker 3: I mean I haven't touched the basketball since twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: Spend my time playing ball when I was in my twenties.
Speaker 3: But I just keep coming back to reptiles and now
Speaker 3: the same kind of relationship and perspective still applies when
Speaker 3: it comes to invertebrates because nobody gives it damn about them.
Speaker 3: You know, they get into the house and people it's
Speaker 3: some big thing for people to they think that it's
Speaker 3: some great thing that they don't kill insects, that they
Speaker 3: would catch them and release them. I was like, why
Speaker 3: that should be the norm.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's so few that can actually hurt you. There's
Speaker 2: so many shower spiders that are just they just want
Speaker 2: to hang out in the corner, right, just let it out.
Speaker 2: But the what you do, the way that you photograph
Speaker 2: these creatures, the number one, your field of focus is
Speaker 2: so shallow that what is so crisp it draws you in.
Speaker 2: It's just magnetic because what's so crisp your eyes just
Speaker 2: like feasts on And then the backgrounds are so obscure,
Speaker 2: they're just dreamy, and it's so easy to focus on
Speaker 2: the subject because that really super shallowed up the field.
Speaker 2: And what is that like, what kind of gear do
Speaker 2: you have to bring Do you have a tiny, tiny
Speaker 2: little studio it's like a seamless that you put them on,
Speaker 2: or are they like? How how are you doing? How
Speaker 2: are you capturing these images?
Speaker 3: So, I mean a lot of what I do is
Speaker 3: is actually in the field. You know. Sometimes if I
Speaker 3: find something that's around the house, I'll take it inside
Speaker 3: so I catch it, wait till it settles down a
Speaker 3: little bit, it gets a little bit desensitized to me,
Speaker 3: and then I'll proceed with photographing it. Otherwise it is
Speaker 3: it's in the field.
Speaker 2: Has it taught you a lot about the ecology because
Speaker 2: you tend to see the same animals in certain spots?
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, And that's it's funny that you may
Speaker 3: because like within black aff and STEM, I'm like the undisciplined,
Speaker 3: like low credential variety out of all of them. They're
Speaker 3: all like working on PhDs and this and that. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I got a bachelor's degree in sociology.
Speaker 2: At this point, I was like, that doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: don't know your shit, and he was like yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I know, I'm kidding, but he was like polite about it.
Speaker 3: It's my hobby and what I do it does it
Speaker 3: does teach me a lot about the ecology. Like I
Speaker 3: can name like about every species of jumping spider in
Speaker 3: the state of Oklahoma, definitely, all the herbs. I can
Speaker 3: identify all of the frogs and toads in Oklahoma by ear.
Speaker 3: And you know, this is just things that you pick
Speaker 3: up as a habit because you do this all the time.
Speaker 3: If you don't learn this doing what you do is
Speaker 3: you're trying not to.
Speaker 2: What kind of apps or field guides do you tend
Speaker 2: to rely on more?
Speaker 3: Well? I have a few field guides now, most of
Speaker 3: them are herbs I have. I have a couple of
Speaker 3: bird guides now, I think I have the Sibly bird
Speaker 3: Guide and I have a like a general insect guide
Speaker 3: as well. But I honestly I use buguide dot net
Speaker 3: a lot. That's a really good source when you're actually looking,
Speaker 3: when you have photos and you're trying to identify, you know,
Speaker 3: whatever the the invertebrate that you found is like the
Speaker 3: biomass biodiversity of Arthur Pause is just so insane that
Speaker 3: you you have to be patient with yourself. You can't expect,
Speaker 3: you know, this level of expertise and this you are
Speaker 3: really diving into a specific family or genus of a
Speaker 3: group of animals, and you misidentify stuff often. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: that's perfectly fine because and so people will correct you.
Speaker 3: And that's that. That is part of the culture, is
Speaker 3: that you accept correction. There's nobody that you know, gets
Speaker 3: really too upset about it, and it's just like, no,
Speaker 3: it's that and it's like, okay, thanks.
Speaker 2: Joseph has met a ton naturalist friends online, but he
Speaker 2: does most of his shooting in Oklahoma City, where he
Speaker 2: lives now. He told me that while Oklahoma prides itself
Speaker 2: on being the reddest of the Red States, one great
Speaker 2: thing about Oklahoma is that a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: realize that it has, per capita, the most historical black
Speaker 2: towns than any other state. And you may, of course
Speaker 2: be familiar with the history of Tulsa's Greenwood District, which
Speaker 2: was also known as black Wall Street, and that was
Speaker 2: the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre of nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 2: And he told me that Oklahoma's diverse population is partly
Speaker 2: the result of the trail of Tears that forced indigenous
Speaker 2: people off their lands and other traumatic relocation practices from
Speaker 2: the Old South. But he went to college there and
Speaker 2: says at the time he was eating and sleeping and
Speaker 2: breathing basketball. But in all that time, maybe only had
Speaker 2: three black teammates. And I asked why he.
Speaker 3: Thinks that was, And I mean, black people are severely
Speaker 3: underrepresented in wiltrib basketball, at least they were at the
Speaker 3: time that I was in college. It's now been a while.
Speaker 3: Anytime that you look at something, if there is a
Speaker 3: lack of represent it's pretty safe bet to at least
Speaker 3: start to consider that there's some discrimination involved there, and
Speaker 3: it's a matter of kind of diving down into root
Speaker 3: cause analysis. So like with my case, like with spina bifida,
Speaker 3: I know Black children are much more likely to have
Speaker 3: spina bifida and this normally is a result of the
Speaker 3: medical neglect of black mothers. Spina bifida is something that
Speaker 3: occurs due to a deficiency in full of acid that
Speaker 3: happens in utero. Very avoidable and it's not avoided when
Speaker 3: mothers expecting mothers aren't taken care of, which is why
Speaker 3: that it happens more often in black children because Black
Speaker 3: women don't have as good an access to adequate medical care.
Speaker 2: Okay, side note that is tragically a gross understatement. The
Speaker 2: Centers for Disease Control released a report in September twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: and it opened with this bold and very heartbreaking statement quote,
Speaker 2: Black American, Indian and Alaska Native women are two to
Speaker 2: three times more likely to die from pregnancy related causes
Speaker 2: than white women, and this disparity increases with age. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry that their language is not more inclusive of non
Speaker 2: binary and transmen who can have babies, but it continues,
Speaker 2: most pregnancy related deaths are preventable. Racial and ethnic disparities
Speaker 2: in pregnancy related deaths have persisted over.
Speaker 3: Time, it says. And also, I mean when you go
Speaker 3: to just the histories of redlining and the getilization of
Speaker 3: America also playing into medical care and the proper medical
Speaker 3: care also of these disabled children, what then become the
Speaker 3: opportunities and the accessibility of these children to find adaptive
Speaker 3: sports opportunities. My mom was in the military, so I
Speaker 3: mean I didn't have to deal with a lot of
Speaker 3: those struggles. I mean, obviously something happened with the care
Speaker 3: that my mom received, even from the military standpoints as
Speaker 3: far as medical care is concerned, but growing up ultimately
Speaker 3: middle class, she was able to find resources and outlets
Speaker 3: for me that centered disability. Now is the next part
Speaker 3: where well, I mean I had learned to center blackness
Speaker 3: for myself. It's not something that I could have ever
Speaker 3: learned from her. And so now it's a matter of
Speaker 3: dealing with, you know, both of those things. Because I
Speaker 3: am black and I'm a paraplegic all the time. I
Speaker 3: can't be one or the other before the other. I
Speaker 3: am both at all times.
Speaker 2: What was it like for Joseph to get to know
Speaker 2: the folks from Black AF and STEM who've been personally
Speaker 2: making my timelines one million percent better since they launched
Speaker 2: Blackbird's Week in late May. How did you become introduced
Speaker 2: to them? What was that like for you?
Speaker 3: It is this this whole thing, you know. I'm actually
Speaker 3: one of the newer members of Black AF and STEM.
Speaker 3: I think I came in around February. It was Alex
Speaker 3: Troutman that brought me in. So he had he had
Speaker 3: a post on Facebook about not looking like a scientist
Speaker 3: because he's black, and he kind of, you know, dove
Speaker 3: into you know, this long piece about now I'm still
Speaker 3: a scientist. You know, black. This ain't got nothing to
Speaker 3: do with it. I'm a black scientist and that went viral.
Speaker 3: I wasn't friends with him, but I saw that and
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, we should be friends. And then
Speaker 3: he hit me back, He's like, did you know about
Speaker 3: you know, this group me? And I was like, I
Speaker 3: had no idea, what's going on? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And so he let me in, and then I realized,
Speaker 3: you know, there was some familiar faces in there, like
Speaker 3: Carl Geitton, the crop guy. I think I've been friends
Speaker 3: with Karl actually longer than any of them, and Karnak
Speaker 3: Newsome and you know other people that I was already familiar, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, I've just been hanging out in here, and
Speaker 3: I just now getting the invitation. What was going on?
Speaker 2: That must have felt like walking into the best party ever?
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And then you know, and the momentum has
Speaker 3: just obviously has just increased, like exponentially since that point
Speaker 3: that I came in. I mean, initially it was just
Speaker 3: this lifely place where we could just kind of set
Speaker 3: down all of the armor that we kind of carry
Speaker 3: with us into the field into other predominantly white spaces,
Speaker 3: and like everybody here is black, and everybody here loose animals. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is great. This is the place that I've been
Speaker 3: trying to get to all my life.
Speaker 2: I did an episode about code switching with doctor Nicole Holliday,
Speaker 2: who's a linguist, and I imagine the code switching dealing
Speaker 2: in the scientific world must be exhausting. I feel like
Speaker 2: already so many people feel like in science they can't
Speaker 2: bring their true selves. But it must be such a
Speaker 2: relief to fully be in a group of people who
Speaker 2: have such similar experiences and you can feel like you
Speaker 2: can be you know, completely authentic.
Speaker 3: With Yes, I mean, code switching is a part of it.
Speaker 3: I think my favorite thing about it that I've thought
Speaker 3: about is as honestly as hair. You know, there's very
Speaker 3: many different types of hair, and so we have, you know,
Speaker 3: various zoom meetings, and we're having like zoom meetings just
Speaker 3: for like, you know, social evenings. Before a black Birder's week,
Speaker 3: we would have like game nights and so like when
Speaker 3: I have really long hair, it's like down to about
Speaker 3: the middle of my back. When I go to work
Speaker 3: at my regular day job, I almost always have my
Speaker 3: hair pulled back in a ponytail. Because I figured out
Speaker 3: very quickly, if I don't do that, white people end
Speaker 3: up making really stupid comments, and it's just like, you
Speaker 3: know what, I'm just have my hair down. Why are
Speaker 3: you even talking to me for having my hair down?
Speaker 3: That doesn't happen in black spaces. Nobody cares that your
Speaker 3: hair is down. Everybody has some sort of type of
Speaker 3: hair that is close to what yours is. Sometimes it's messy,
Speaker 3: sometimes it's like covered in a head wrap. And in
Speaker 3: those group chats, in those moments, in those zoom meetings,
Speaker 3: it is normal and there's never a comment made unless
Speaker 3: it's unless we get into a topic about talking about
Speaker 3: hair care or hair care in the field. It's you're
Speaker 3: just like everybody else. Yeah, you don't have to worry
Speaker 3: about ignorance. It's very freeing and it makes it very
Speaker 3: comfortable and makes it feel very safe.
Speaker 2: That's one thing that really struck me about the blackaff
Speaker 2: live streams. That was really beautiful to see because so
Speaker 2: often people who are black and stem are tokenized or
Speaker 2: are on a panel where it feels like they have
Speaker 2: to represent everyone who has ever been in science and
Speaker 2: black at the same time, that kind of weight is
Speaker 2: put on them, and it was really wonderful to watch
Speaker 2: the live streams to see that kind of burden be lifted,
Speaker 2: and to see people just be able to be completely
Speaker 2: themselves and much more care free in a space where
Speaker 2: they knew that they were safe. It was really such
Speaker 2: a joy to be witnessed too, you.
Speaker 3: Know, you know, and I mean it's a it's a
Speaker 3: great thing that you are even able to acknowledge that
Speaker 3: because a lot of people don't even realize how how
Speaker 3: guarded and how unsafe we feel in most spaces, because
Speaker 3: we are so used to kind of putting on faces
Speaker 3: and portraying ourselves in such a way that doesn't you know,
Speaker 3: upset the white gaze and other things, and so to
Speaker 3: acknowledge to be able to see that, you know, when
Speaker 3: when we're just being us and we're not just we're
Speaker 3: we're not trying to put on a face for anybody,
Speaker 3: it's a whole different thing.
Speaker 2: And I loved like that your approach to science was
Speaker 2: so artistic and so like zeroed in on kind of
Speaker 2: the beauty of things that have been overlooked, and other
Speaker 2: people might approach their science differently. In the Black af
Speaker 2: and Stem episode, Joseph submitted a clip addressing BBC and
Speaker 2: National Geographic directly saying quote.
Speaker 3: I have yet to meet more than maybe two or
Speaker 3: three other people with an injury like mine who are
Speaker 3: also naturalists. This is a really good opportunity for BBC,
Speaker 3: not GEO. If you guys are listening, you y'all, y'all
Speaker 3: don't have any representation for disabled people amongst your photographers.
Speaker 2: Direct to the point and admirable. I was like, I like,
Speaker 2: this guy, how represented do you feel in wildlife photography?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like most working wildlife photographers are ruddy
Speaker 2: white dudes in car hearts, Like you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like what does that feel like? And what should it be?
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's kind of that's multi layered, so
Speaker 3: there's on one hands, you know, Like the comment that
Speaker 3: I made when I sent in my clip, I mean
Speaker 3: that stands. There really is no representation. I don't think,
Speaker 3: honestly in photography period. I can't think of anybody that
Speaker 3: I know that has a physical disability that is well
Speaker 3: known in photography. In wildlife photography, I mean it's even harder.
Speaker 3: And I mean some of that is there's a rationale
Speaker 3: to some of it, because there are some places, some
Speaker 3: locations that it is simply highly unlikely, if not impossible,
Speaker 3: to get any kind of a wheelchair to go, and
Speaker 3: I accept that. What I have trouble accepting is that
Speaker 3: nobody is actually willing to put forth any sort of
Speaker 3: mental energy to create any sort of solutions or diversity
Speaker 3: around that, like just looking at what using myself as
Speaker 3: an example, Obviously, somebody with mobility limitations can get pretty
Speaker 3: good at macrophotography. Because insects are not that hard to
Speaker 3: come by, at least for now. We can talk about
Speaker 3: the declining rate of the biomass of arthropods, which is terrifying.
Speaker 2: Okay, quick aside, I don't want to alarm you, but
Speaker 2: I looked into it, and some scientists are calling this
Speaker 2: the insect apocalypse. It's very bad. So according to a
Speaker 2: recent story in Science, it's daily only ten to twenty
Speaker 2: percent of insects and other invertebrate species have even been
Speaker 2: described and named, and some populations of flying insects, like
Speaker 2: those in parts of Germany, have declined seventy three percent
Speaker 2: in the last three decades. Is it because you keep
Speaker 2: squishing them with a kleenex and putting them in the toilet? Well,
Speaker 2: yes and no. There's a lot of factors, chiefly habitat loss, pollution,
Speaker 2: invasive species and climate change all contribute. You are sad
Speaker 2: right now, and I understand because I am too. I
Speaker 2: love a bug, Are you kidding? So what can we do,
Speaker 2: dad Ward? Can we kiss a bug on its tiny face?
Speaker 2: It's tempting, but it's not helpful. So the same Science
Speaker 2: Daily article had a tidy list of what you can do,
Speaker 2: which I will now read off with my mouth.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 2: Avoid mowing your garden frequently. Just let nature grow and
Speaker 2: feed insects You're welcome. Two plant native plants. Three avoid pesticides.
Speaker 2: Four leave old trees, stumps, and dead leaves alone. That's
Speaker 2: where bugs live.
Speaker 3: Five.
Speaker 2: Build an insect hotel. Why don't you? Six reduce your
Speaker 2: carbon footprint in general. Seven Support and volunteer in conservation organizations.
Speaker 2: Eight don't release non native species. So if your grandpa
Speaker 2: does not appreciate the emotional support iguana you got him,
Speaker 2: do not let him release it on the patio. Nobody
Speaker 2: wants that except the iguana and your grandpa. And lastly,
Speaker 2: the article said, and I quote, be more aware of
Speaker 2: tiny creatures. Always look on the small side of life.
Speaker 2: So appreciate the bugs, you see, they are precious and
Speaker 2: we need them. And also just superficially, they're very beautiful.
Speaker 2: Also about those conservation organizations, Joseph would love to be
Speaker 2: working with them on accessibility, But you.
Speaker 3: Know, it's stuff like that that is, I guess, is
Speaker 3: a little more frustrating. And also when you look at
Speaker 3: the institutional level, like I've looked at possible ways to
Speaker 3: get out of my current line of work and into
Speaker 3: something that is more conservation based, and organizations like US
Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife or the various state departments, they all
Speaker 3: require you to have at a minimum of whatever the
Speaker 3: education requirements is in natural sciences. My thoughts surrounding that
Speaker 3: is some of these institutions are they do have people
Speaker 3: that are on programs or push programs about accessibility or diversity,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, but where are the people that
Speaker 3: actually have to use these things, because most of the
Speaker 3: people that I see on their accessibility programs are not
Speaker 3: people with accessibility limitations. Oh that's rich, that's really rich.
Speaker 3: Why is it necessary to make sure that they have
Speaker 3: a bachelors or masters in one of the natural sciences.
Speaker 3: They're working on your accessibility program, they don't need to
Speaker 3: know all of the other stuff, and you can teach
Speaker 3: them about all this other stuff anyway, because that's what
Speaker 3: your entire organization is about. There's more that you can
Speaker 3: learn from them than anything. So exactly open up the
Speaker 3: door and actually improve the overall infrastructure of your organization.
Speaker 2: So if there are accessibility positions out there, staff them
Speaker 2: with folks who know the most about accessibility issues rather
Speaker 2: than have these stringent natural science degree requirements. So Joseph
Speaker 2: also told me about being part of several communities at once,
Speaker 2: something that other folks may not even consider.
Speaker 3: I had a talk with doctor Newberry at Bucknell University
Speaker 3: a while ago. We were talking about essentially black people
Speaker 3: in natural sciences and stuff like that. And the biggest
Speaker 3: thing that I said to him, or I think the
Speaker 3: important thing that I said to him, is when it
Speaker 3: comes to this momentum that that Black EFE and STEM
Speaker 3: and other organizations are creating now, is to create a
Speaker 3: sense of camaraderie. I don't want to have to leave
Speaker 3: my Black community to have my needs met as a
Speaker 3: disabled person. I want my Black community to be able
Speaker 3: to meet those needs. Because if I have to leave
Speaker 3: that Black community and I have to go to this
Speaker 3: other one, that means that I have to start dealing
Speaker 3: with the anti blackness that exists within those communities, and
Speaker 3: I don't want that either. Yeah, it's important to me
Speaker 3: that as we go forward that we are creating spaces
Speaker 3: and opportunities for accessibility and stuff that is not something
Speaker 3: where we're targeting disability and where that's the overall emphasis,
Speaker 3: but we are simply creating a doorway for them to
Speaker 3: come into the larger community and to go on these
Speaker 3: tracks with the rest of much.
Speaker 2: Is there anything equipment wise that could be made available
Speaker 2: to people that would help with that, anything that exists,
Speaker 2: anything that you wish.
Speaker 3: Exists, wish exists. Yeah, well, I mean there's stuff that
Speaker 3: does exist. So, and I've seen various models. The one
Speaker 3: that I get the most is people will send me
Speaker 3: this chair that they've seen that is mostly it's like motorized,
Speaker 3: and it's large enough that basically can push your manual
Speaker 3: chair into it, and it basically locks into it, and
Speaker 3: it has like these tank tracks ps.
Speaker 2: I look this up and yes, it's like a small tank.
Speaker 2: I mean, on one hand, there's some rugged fund to
Speaker 2: be had, but on the other and.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what would I do with that in the
Speaker 3: field other than just destroy a whole bunch of habitat
Speaker 3: you asked me to like basically climb into a tank
Speaker 3: and just kill all of the stuff that I'm actually
Speaker 3: trying to see you a photograph. This giant piece of
Speaker 3: equipment is useless to me, and that seems to be
Speaker 3: the kind of the go to is like this whole
Speaker 3: motorized thing. What I want to do is if I
Speaker 3: ever get the opportunity, and maybe it'll come as things
Speaker 3: with black eyefistem progresses, I would like to I would
Speaker 3: love to sit down with an engineer who does chairs,
Speaker 3: or maybe someone who doesn't do chairs but just actually
Speaker 3: has access to the resources, that has enough imagination and
Speaker 3: basically create an outdoor chair that is usable under manpower.
Speaker 3: It's been tackled before, it would be the first time.
Speaker 3: There are a few other things, but having played sports
Speaker 3: being a pretty high functioning paraplegic myself, which also it
Speaker 3: has to be taken in consideration. So I mean, if
Speaker 3: it just because it's usable by me doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: it's going to be usable by someone that's a quadriplegic,
Speaker 3: you know, So that's a different hurdle and maybe a
Speaker 3: different piece of equipment. Me being someone that loves to
Speaker 3: be active loves to be outdoors. I need a chair
Speaker 3: that actually can permit me the opportunity to push my boundaries,
Speaker 3: to make me tired, to potentially get myself into some
Speaker 3: bad situations outdoors, but also is capable enough to get
Speaker 3: me out of those bad situations. I have some ideas.
Speaker 3: I don't know who to kick them around to. Maybe
Speaker 3: one day they will come knocking and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: let's make a chair.
Speaker 2: Yeah there's any engineers listening to this? Hello? Number one?
Speaker 2: Follow you on Instagram. That's Instagram dot com, Slash real
Speaker 2: time on wheels. Also his website parahorpetologica dot com. It's
Speaker 2: linked to the show notes. I'm just saying, because your
Speaker 2: stuff amazing, sign a message that would be that would
Speaker 2: be amazing. If if you became a pioneer of something
Speaker 2: that could get more people out into nature that was
Speaker 2: also good for nature, that would be huge. And I
Speaker 2: have so I have so many Patroon questions. Can I
Speaker 2: go to the Patreon questions and then I'm probably gonna
Speaker 2: have a million more.
Speaker 3: But hey, I am here for you. I My schedule
Speaker 3: is clear for the evening. We can stay on as
Speaker 3: long as you want, and you can ask all the.
Speaker 2: Questions, so four part ologies. But before we get to
Speaker 2: your questions, patrons, a few words from sponsors who make
Speaker 2: it possible for us to just rain cash on a
Speaker 2: worthy organization each week chosen by the ologist. So this
Speaker 2: week Joseph, who says chronic migraines are one of the
Speaker 2: only things that can keep them from the field, told
Speaker 2: us about the American Chronic Pain Association, which since nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty has offered peer support groups and edgytion in pain
Speaker 2: management skills to people with pain and their family and
Speaker 2: friends and healthcare professionals. So their website is THEACPA dot org.
Speaker 2: So a donation went to them thanks to some sponsors
Speaker 2: of the show, which you may hear about.
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Speaker 2: Okay to your questions. Many of you, including Hilary Larson,
Speaker 2: met Tacato, teeg and Andrews, Victoria Harding, Ashley Calcoffin Carolina,
Speaker 2: and Gail Greynik all asked the same one that Cora had.
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you patron questions.
Speaker 3: Cool, let's go.
Speaker 2: Several hundred people have questions for you. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: So many people wanted to know about getting the perfect shot,
Speaker 2: and essentially a lot of people want to know. This
Speaker 2: is Cooru's first time asking a question what do you
Speaker 2: look for in a perfect shot? And others wanted to know, like,
Speaker 2: what is the longest you have ever waited just to
Speaker 2: get the perfect shot of a specimen?
Speaker 3: The longest I've waited with wildlife in general. It's really
Speaker 3: only about timing, and it's kind of about luck. You know,
Speaker 3: you got to put yourself out there enough times to
Speaker 3: have enough opportunities to surpass the numerous failures that you're
Speaker 3: going to endure to get and find that one creature
Speaker 3: that is cooperative enough and sits still long enough for
Speaker 3: you to get your photos, set it up however you
Speaker 3: want to and execute it. So as far as how
Speaker 3: long I've waited, I would say not very long, because
Speaker 3: it's normally you go into a situation and it is okay,
Speaker 3: I'm going to take a photo, and then whatever you're
Speaker 3: about to take a photo of runs away, flies away,
Speaker 3: says screw you. By fail, you move on to the
Speaker 3: next one. So not really a whole lot of time spent.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of the same thing is once you
Speaker 3: get that one, and it's great that they're comfortable and
Speaker 3: they just kind of chill and you get your photos
Speaker 3: and then you're on your way. Sometimes they are semi cooperative,
Speaker 3: and these are the ones that drive me crazy. Semi
Speaker 3: quad being that they'll sit still for a second and
Speaker 3: you'll have the shot lined up and as soon as
Speaker 3: you click the shutter, they move. Why why Oh, they
Speaker 3: drive me absolutely mad because they keep giving you hope
Speaker 3: because they're not moving very fast, they're not fleeing from you,
Speaker 3: they're just not staying in that same position. And so
Speaker 3: you continue to readjust and reattack it and try to
Speaker 3: get that shot. And I've probably spent thirty minutes to
Speaker 3: an hour with probably one subject trying to do that.
Speaker 2: Because your depth of field is really really shallow, right,
Speaker 2: So if they move literally even a millimeter, it probably
Speaker 2: changes it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean if they move at all, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it completely changes what area of the subject that's shooting
Speaker 3: is sharp completely. Focus stacking is kind of the way
Speaker 3: around that to some degree. But I mean even if
Speaker 3: they move when you're focus stacking, if they continuously move,
Speaker 3: then you're just as a well until they stop, it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: can you just please stop? Stand there? Stay?
Speaker 2: What do you think your percentage is between shooting and editing?
Speaker 2: So Joseph says he doesn't do much tweaking in terms
Speaker 2: of color because he wants the natural beauty of the
Speaker 2: creature to really come through. But what about the sheer
Speaker 2: number of images he takes? Just considering that, it takes
Speaker 2: me like at least fourteen to maybe seventeen tries just
Speaker 2: to get a selfie where I don't look like my
Speaker 2: uncle Ron, Like, what is his ratio?
Speaker 3: Many?
Speaker 2: If his photos are garbage? I need numbers, But do
Speaker 2: you have five thousand photographs to go through? Uh, he's
Speaker 2: really good at knowing when to pull the trigger.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Practice definitely. I mean it's all practice. And I
Speaker 3: mean I've got a lot of throwaway stuff, Like one
Speaker 3: of these days, maybe I'll make it my post for tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I'll post like my very first photo that I ever
Speaker 3: took of any invert and then something that's current so
Speaker 3: people can like really kind of understand of this is
Speaker 3: where you start and this, if you keep doing it,
Speaker 3: is where you can end up.
Speaker 2: That's great. That'll be so encouraging for those of us
Speaker 2: who have a lot of blurry photos and bugs on her.
Speaker 3: I mean I had tons of them, Like it's funny,
Speaker 3: like ever like since you've been campaigning to get me
Speaker 3: more followers, like other people are going through like the
Speaker 3: history of my stuff and you know they're liking those,
Speaker 3: and I'm looking at him and I'm like cringing, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, Oh, like I can't believe
Speaker 3: I actually shared this thinking that somebody was going to
Speaker 3: appreciate this. That is such a terrible photo. Dude.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel when people like I started listening
Speaker 2: to ologies from episode one, I'm like, nah, the same way.
Speaker 2: Everyone feels that way. And that's it's so funny because
Speaker 2: it's just that means that you're progressing. But I totally,
Speaker 2: I totally get that we see our progress with such
Speaker 2: in such a different lens, if you will. And there's
Speaker 2: someone who follows you, Timothy Dikes, who also loves macrophotography,
Speaker 2: and they asked, what macro photo did you take that
Speaker 2: blew your mind once you saw the details you otherwise
Speaker 2: couldn't see with your eyes. And they say, for me,
Speaker 2: it's been the scales of moths and butterflies, or the
Speaker 2: hairs on caterpillars, or textures on beetles, and so did
Speaker 2: you see any details of anything that you were.
Speaker 3: Like, what? Hmm, that's a good question. I don't have
Speaker 3: any immediate answer for that one.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, he thinks I have to tell you. Once
Speaker 2: I took a photo of a daisy, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: until I zoomed in later that I saw a perfectly
Speaker 2: matching yellow globular springtail, which is a tiny bug with
Speaker 2: a big cute butt. It looks kind of like a
Speaker 2: Pokemon character. I cannot stress how globular its springtail is.
Speaker 2: It's perfect. So this hidden world of hallucinations is just
Speaker 2: one magnification lens away.
Speaker 3: It's really not about the animal itself, I think, and
Speaker 3: maybe it's just because it's a pet peep of mine.
Speaker 3: So sometimes when I'm approaching these really these higher magnification images,
Speaker 3: is dust like, especially with these fuzzy jumping spiders, and
Speaker 3: they will have like dust all over their face, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, have you just been rolling around in dirt? Well, yes,
Speaker 3: obviously you have been rolling around in dirt, but could
Speaker 3: you have at least, I don't know, prepared cleaned yourself
Speaker 3: before we did this. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: It's like watching someone like eat potato chips and having
Speaker 2: them in their beard. Yeah, like you get a little,
Speaker 2: you get a little right right there.
Speaker 3: It is exactly that. It is maddening.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. For stats, A patron says, uh, who
Speaker 2: who was their response to you being on the show.
Speaker 2: Any good online classes? It's been a while since they
Speaker 2: use their camera, but they would love to get back
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 3: So I haven't taken any classes. Well, no, that's not true.
Speaker 3: I haven't taken any online classes. I have taken two
Speaker 3: in person classes with another macro photographer. His name is
Speaker 3: Thomas Shahan. He's also in Oklahoma and His is like
Speaker 3: the first work that I really kind of started to
Speaker 3: look at and study. First thing I did is I
Speaker 3: just started reading different concepts about lighting, composite lighting, composition, exposure,
Speaker 3: how to use your camera to the fullest extent of
Speaker 3: its capabilities, you know, shooting in manual instead of auto
Speaker 3: or even the macro mode. The macro dial that is
Speaker 3: on some cameras not quite as efficient as if you
Speaker 3: were able to actually shoot with macro or in manual. Sorry.
Speaker 3: And then the other thing with me has just been
Speaker 3: has been lighting, seeing what other people are doing when
Speaker 3: it comes to lighting, how to actually get that soft light,
Speaker 3: especially since I mean, when you're shooting macro you have
Speaker 3: to have external light. You can't get around it.
Speaker 2: So manual settings can be even better than the pre
Speaker 2: programmed macro settings. And while we're all here, why not
Speaker 2: let's have a quick breakdown of some macro photography terms.
Speaker 2: So first of all, in terms of lenses, Cannon calls
Speaker 2: macro lenses macro lenses, but Nikon calls the micro So
Speaker 2: don't get thrown off by that. I don't know why
Speaker 2: I'm not here for a canon nike On feud. You
Speaker 2: can do that among yourselves. Now, when it comes to
Speaker 2: lens length, it depends on what you're shooting. So some
Speaker 2: experts say forty five to sixty five millimeters is good
Speaker 2: for product photography, ninety to one hundred and five millimeters
Speaker 2: good for bugs and flowers and small objects, and one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty to two hundred millimeters better for being
Speaker 2: farther away from your subjects. But we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about some super cheap hacks if you don't want to
Speaker 2: invest in a bunch of lenses for this. Also, in general,
Speaker 2: the higher your f stop, the smaller the aperture, and
Speaker 2: the more crisp the details in your photo will be.
Speaker 2: But also the higher the f stop, the smaller the aperture,
Speaker 2: the less light you're letting in. So the longer the
Speaker 2: aperture has to be open. But if it's open longer
Speaker 2: and your shutter speed is slow, that could lead to
Speaker 2: blurring if your tiny little model moves. So you can
Speaker 2: get around that by having a high f stop, which
Speaker 2: means a small aperture and more light like sunlight or
Speaker 2: a flash. What are we talking.
Speaker 3: Some of the stuff is just you're so close, so
Speaker 3: close to the subjects, that there's no other The natural
Speaker 3: light is not penetrating into the lens. You're too close,
Speaker 3: so we have to have some flash, but you have
Speaker 3: to make that that flash soft so it's still appealing.
Speaker 3: And I just read, reading and looking at other people's
Speaker 3: work is kind of really the way that I've learned
Speaker 3: over the years in practice, practice, constantly, keep practicing.
Speaker 2: A bunch of patrons wanted to know how to get
Speaker 2: little critters to sit still while you're shooting them, or
Speaker 2: while they're like waiting in their dressing room to get shot.
Speaker 2: Micah Weir, don Ewald, May Merril, Ira Gray Thomas and Wyndham,
Speaker 2: Ashley Connen and Marika Shin all wanted to know, as
Speaker 2: did Charlotte Filkgard, who asked flying insects how to photograph
Speaker 2: them so they're sharp and snazzy and not just an
Speaker 2: adorable blur or it was just here now, I swear.
Speaker 2: They say, do you have bugs that you say will
Speaker 2: kind of collect and hold in like a green room,
Speaker 2: say until you're ready to shoot them, or do you
Speaker 2: kind of you shoot them just in their setting where
Speaker 2: they would be and you're just you kind of are
Speaker 2: out on the prowl and you shoot as you see them.
Speaker 3: A little bit of both. It depends. In some case,
Speaker 3: is like the one that if you look at my instagram,
Speaker 3: the one that I posted I think yesterday, that tiger beetle.
Speaker 3: I definitely caught that guy. They do not sit still,
Speaker 3: so I caught him. I let him settle down for
Speaker 3: a little bit, and after that I was able to
Speaker 3: approach it a little bit differently and get my.
Speaker 2: Shots by the bay. If you follow Reels on Wheels,
Speaker 2: you may remember that this is a shot of a
Speaker 2: tiger beetle, and usually we see them from above and
Speaker 2: their backs are maybe greenish blue and metallic, kind of
Speaker 2: clamoring around leaves like a drunk robot. But the way
Speaker 2: Joseph got his shots was head on, staring straight into
Speaker 2: their jaws, which honestly looks like if moose antlers had
Speaker 2: been dipped in gun metal, just ready to gnash up
Speaker 2: whatever prey was unlucky enough to find itself crushed in them.
Speaker 2: And it gave me like a whole new perspective and
Speaker 2: a respect for these tiger beetles.
Speaker 3: And they are also one of the ones that is
Speaker 3: absolutely masterful because at driving you crazy because you'll approach
Speaker 3: them and then they'll fly. But they don't fly very far.
Speaker 3: They will fly about six ten feet away from you
Speaker 3: where you can still see them, and it's this whole
Speaker 3: game of cat and mouse and you can't catch me.
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, okay, all right, how am I
Speaker 3: going to work around this one? But I mean, anytime
Speaker 3: that I can, I like to shoot where they are
Speaker 3: as they are, with as little disruption to that as
Speaker 3: I possibly can. The best way that I've found to
Speaker 3: do that is by finding spaces where man made infrastructure
Speaker 3: and nature meat kind of like parks, park benches especially.
Speaker 3: Like there's one park here where there's this large walkway
Speaker 3: that's completely built from wood and it's covered by trees
Speaker 3: and underneath it all of the foliage from all the
Speaker 3: winters or falls past, you know, all that stuff is
Speaker 3: built up around there. So there are invertebrates everywhere all
Speaker 3: the time, and they're pretty desensitized to human presence, so
Speaker 3: you can you know, it's granted me a lot of
Speaker 3: experience and opportunities to continue to shoot.
Speaker 2: Oh that's amazing. That's that's such a good tip. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the way that the way that you can turn a
Speaker 2: spider into like a like a Star Wars character, almost
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean, Like they look like
Speaker 2: they look like these beautiful little aliens when you see
Speaker 2: them closed and you see how many eyes and hairs
Speaker 2: and they're little, they're calisserie like. It's just amazing. Like
Speaker 2: your leafhopper from the other day looks like it looks
Speaker 2: like a Star Wars character to man ineral life. Honestly,
Speaker 2: these helmety heads and the big visor eyes, they've got,
Speaker 2: these gleaming robotic exoskeletons. It's the stuff of sci fi
Speaker 2: franchises and action figures. Now, if Joseph work has inspired
Speaker 2: you to get up close and personal with a slug
Speaker 2: or face to face with a winged tiny, what will
Speaker 2: you need less than you think? Perhaps so, Patrons Marilyn Scruck,
Speaker 2: Fanny Laura Darnell Dailey, Dames, Patrick Shaw, Katie Coast Cat, Lindsay,
Speaker 2: Meghan McLean, Howard Yeermish, Rachel Weiss, James Miller, Kelly King,
Speaker 2: Ariana Matson, Tino h Propo, and em all want to
Speaker 2: know essentially what Matthew Sparks asked, which is, do you
Speaker 2: have any alternate kit suggestions for beginners who really want
Speaker 2: to start shooting macro photography but can't afford a macro Lenz.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, howdy does he? So many people and you
Speaker 2: do not have to divulge this, but so many people
Speaker 2: are begging to know what kind of cameras or lenses
Speaker 2: or any anything gear wise that you can dish on.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to take one further and I'm going
Speaker 3: to add this. I my personal opinion is that that
Speaker 3: photographer that try to hoard all of their information of
Speaker 3: how they got to where they are jerks. What you
Speaker 3: heard me? Okay, there's no reason not to share as
Speaker 3: much information as you possibly can because at the bottom line,
Speaker 3: there's no two brains that think exactly alike, and there's
Speaker 3: no and especially when you're dealing with wildlife, because it
Speaker 3: is not there to accommodate you like a model is.
Speaker 3: You can't instruct it on how to actually pose for you.
Speaker 3: You have to just get what they give and make
Speaker 3: the most out of that situation. And no two scenarios
Speaker 3: like that are going to be exactly alike. So I
Speaker 3: can impart whatever knowledge I want and whatever skill that
Speaker 3: a person is willing to actually gain for themselves through practice,
Speaker 3: and our photos are still not going to be the
Speaker 3: same photos. So there's no reason not to share it.
Speaker 3: I shoot now. I started with a Canon T five I,
Speaker 3: which is a Rebel series, which is an introductory DSLR.
Speaker 3: I now shoot with the Canon ninety D significant upgrade
Speaker 3: in resolution, like I could print massive prints of my
Speaker 3: images of tiny things, and that was the whole reason
Speaker 3: that I got the camera. Canon also offers mirrorless. I'm
Speaker 3: not trusting mirrorless yet because Canon is new to mirrorless,
Speaker 3: so I'm waiting to see what that that period is
Speaker 3: and see how it's received by other photographers.
Speaker 2: By the bye, I looked it up for us, and
Speaker 2: a Rebel body you can get used for less than
Speaker 2: two hundred bucks, so that's good. And when he says mirrorless,
Speaker 2: that's as opposed to a DSLR camera, and a DLSLR
Speaker 2: stands for digital because snow film single lens reflex, which
Speaker 2: means that there's a mirror in the back of the
Speaker 2: camera and it bounces the image through the lens up
Speaker 2: through a prism through the viewfinder into your eye. And
Speaker 2: that means when you hit the button to take the picture,
Speaker 2: the mirror has to flip out of the way and
Speaker 2: it lets the shutter behind it open and the sensor
Speaker 2: records the visual information, So that is what those click
Speaker 2: noises are in press conferences. That's the mirrors clicking and
Speaker 2: clicking in a camera. Now you know now mirrorless cameras,
Speaker 2: those rely instead on a mirror to put it through
Speaker 2: a prism, to put it through a viewfinder to go
Speaker 2: in your eye. They rely on a digital preview, which
Speaker 2: could have a little bit of lag time. Also, there
Speaker 2: are some differences between auto focuses. But if nothing else, now,
Speaker 2: when you hear your phone making that shutter clicking noise,
Speaker 2: you'll think about how weird it is that they had
Speaker 2: to record the sound of a mirror flipping up to
Speaker 2: tell you that your picture took.
Speaker 3: Yes, I like Venus Optics or LAWA. I think it's Laowa.
Speaker 3: They are. They manufacture lenses and they really seem to
Speaker 3: cater to macrophotographers. They have a wonderful assortment of stuff.
Speaker 3: What a lot of their lenses are manuals, so they
Speaker 3: don't have electronic aperture settings. So you really have to
Speaker 3: know your gear and know how it's actually manipulated by
Speaker 3: hand rather than within the camera itself. So that's essentially
Speaker 3: what I gues. I think I have five or six
Speaker 3: different macro lenses. If you're just starting out, you can
Speaker 3: get a basic like kit lens, and if you get
Speaker 3: a reversible ring that you can attach to your camera,
Speaker 3: you can flip that lens around, attach it to the lens,
Speaker 3: and it essentially in versus the optics. So you basically
Speaker 3: have like a macro lens that will get a lot
Speaker 3: closer than say like a regular fifty or sixty milimeter
Speaker 3: would what.
Speaker 2: You can flip a lens around backwards and use it
Speaker 2: that way. It's like Glenion you can take your shirt
Speaker 2: off and wear his pants.
Speaker 3: That's one thing that Thomas Shahan, like one of the
Speaker 3: guys that I've learned from, used to do because he's
Speaker 3: he's a hardcore like budget or thrift thrift seeker. He's
Speaker 3: I'm a gearhead, like they call it. I love new
Speaker 3: gadgets and toys and being in to play with stuff.
Speaker 3: But if you're not in that position, just get any
Speaker 3: camera that you can get your hands on, get a
Speaker 3: reversible ring so that you can actually attach that to it,
Speaker 3: or just shop around for cheap used macro lenses. You
Speaker 3: can usually find them at fairly affordable prices and work
Speaker 3: on your lighting. You need diffuse light.
Speaker 2: Okay, So a speed light is that flash attachment that
Speaker 2: clicks on top of the camera but point it directly
Speaker 2: at a little critter, And it's kind of like taking
Speaker 2: a picture of yourself under a bay of fluorescence. You
Speaker 2: kind of want to soften it a little bit, just
Speaker 2: diffuse it. You want your crickets to feel handsome.
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm experimenting with a piece of foam and
Speaker 3: basically cut a hole out of this sheet of foam
Speaker 3: that my lens fits through, and so my flash that's
Speaker 3: on top of the camera, and so when the flash bursts,
Speaker 3: it is essentially diffused through this piece of foam, so
Speaker 3: it spreads it out more and then it's soft for
Speaker 3: once it actually reaches the subject.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: And it's really easy. But I mean, the phone is cheap.
Speaker 3: You know. If I mess one up, I just go
Speaker 3: cut out and make another one. It's not the most
Speaker 3: environmentally friendly because phone kind of sucks, and there's other
Speaker 3: ways to kind of just do it yourself. I have
Speaker 3: a friend of mine who took like an old cereal box,
Speaker 3: formed it so that it actually fit over his speed light,
Speaker 3: over the flash on the camera, and then he covered
Speaker 3: the cereal box with a bunch of plastic bags. Oh,
Speaker 3: and that's his light diffuser. That's amazing, you know, it's
Speaker 3: really it's literally endless. Thomas Sheahan. He he takes like
Speaker 3: a plastic sheet like your paper protectors, like eight you know,
Speaker 3: eight by eleven paper protectors, and then he puts a
Speaker 3: bunch of like tracing paper into that, and then he
Speaker 3: takes a like a wire hanger to actually create his
Speaker 3: his outer ring of it so he can shape it
Speaker 3: however he wants to. And that's his light difuser. It's
Speaker 3: literally do what you want. It's yeah, you know, do
Speaker 3: it yourself. If you can build stuff around the house.
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of options. But I would still stress
Speaker 3: that if you're going to do it, make sure the
Speaker 3: light is right. The light is important. Get spend spend
Speaker 3: some time getting the light right. I'm ready for my
Speaker 3: close town.
Speaker 2: A lot of people wonder Leanne, Leanna Schuster, Ellen Silva,
Speaker 2: Meghan Walker, Sylvia Treverio, Ellen, drnal Tino ha brought Bow,
Speaker 2: Chelsea Nichols, Rachel Sor and Rachel de Growth all kind
Speaker 2: of we're wondering, is there anything on your iPhone that
Speaker 2: you could do if you just want to maybe make
Speaker 2: your time in the park a little bit more macro friendly.
Speaker 2: If you're if you're not aspiring to say Justice Saunders
Speaker 2: levels of amazingness, but you want to put something on
Speaker 2: your phone like an Olio clip? What are you anything
Speaker 2: like that that you recommend?
Speaker 3: I I can't recommend anything based on experience. I don't
Speaker 3: want to have any of that attachments to my phone.
Speaker 3: I do know there so we A friend of mine
Speaker 3: puts on a moth night where he basically puts a
Speaker 3: bunch of lights around this area and spreads out these
Speaker 3: sheets and it collects all kinds of bugs. It's great.
Speaker 3: And I know one guy, he doesn't have a camera,
Speaker 3: he has a phone. He has attachment to his phone
Speaker 3: and that's what he uses the ground and he shooes
Speaker 3: moths and he gets an excellent perspective on what they are.
Speaker 3: You know, it is a really incredible device to be
Speaker 3: able to get a very clear photo that is up
Speaker 3: close to very small things. Since it is attached to
Speaker 3: your phone, it's going to be really difficult to get
Speaker 3: the lighting and exposure or have as much control over
Speaker 3: that as someone shooting a DSLR with speed light and
Speaker 3: flash diffusion wood. But if you just want to learn
Speaker 3: more about the tiny world that we exist in, because
Speaker 3: it's really this is the bugs planet, where are They're
Speaker 3: just loudness to be a part of it, I would
Speaker 3: strongly recommend that I honestly, to some degree, I miss
Speaker 3: it because I still remember when I first started shooting. No,
Speaker 3: I was just running around taking pictures of anything, yeah,
Speaker 3: trying to get something that just looks sharp, because that's
Speaker 3: that's where you start. You try to get, you know,
Speaker 3: something sharp, and then you work on the exposure, and
Speaker 3: then you work on the composition, and then you work
Speaker 3: on the lighting, and then you et cetera, you know,
Speaker 3: down the.
Speaker 2: Line, and now you're up to some level where you
Speaker 2: can capture like a jumping spider having one slow tear
Speaker 2: running out of its eye, that it like both loneliness
Speaker 2: and regret. You've like your subjects of Meryl Streep and
Speaker 2: like a moment of contemplation. It's amazing.
Speaker 3: So but at the same time that does limit me
Speaker 3: because I spend more time on each individual one and
Speaker 3: I'm not just running around taking photos of every little
Speaker 3: thing that I see, because I limit myself based on
Speaker 3: the quality of the photo that I can.
Speaker 2: Get Also, can I just say that everyone needs to
Speaker 2: have a friend that puts on a moth party, Like,
Speaker 2: if you don't have a friend, if you're not on
Speaker 2: a group chat with at least one person who's like,
Speaker 2: I've got the black light in the sheet? Where are
Speaker 2: we meeting? Like you need new friends?
Speaker 3: No kidding, Like as long as as long as I've
Speaker 3: been doing this, I've I've only met him just last year,
Speaker 3: and it's it's fun. Actually, there's a photo that's on
Speaker 3: my Instagram of a horsefly and aw yes, I know
Speaker 3: that one that was actually taken at the first moth
Speaker 3: night that I went to, And like the moths, they
Speaker 3: frustrate me, so they land on the sheet and the
Speaker 3: only thing, the only photo that you're going to get
Speaker 3: it any of these moths is just a plain dorsal
Speaker 3: photograph that is really good for identification. And that's kind
Speaker 3: of about it from a photographer's perspective. So they're going
Speaker 3: crazy over moths because he loves moths, and I'm all
Speaker 3: for it. I love is in enthusiasm about it, but
Speaker 3: I'm you know, running around in other places looking for
Speaker 3: something else that is perched up somewhere else. Actually, the
Speaker 3: leaf hopper was a photographed at the last one that
Speaker 3: I went to.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, oh great news. National Moth Week July
Speaker 2: eighteenth through twenty eighth. Nice by the way. For more
Speaker 2: on this, see Nationalmothweek dot org, or you can follow
Speaker 2: Twitter dot com slash moth Underscore Week. So just when
Speaker 2: you thought that summer parties were canceled, there's always you
Speaker 2: and fifty bucks. That is a thing. Yeah, you're able
Speaker 2: to get a lot of like facial angles too, And
Speaker 2: is that a matter of you having to move your
Speaker 2: lens to them or can you kind of like gently
Speaker 2: urge them with a pencil to like face here, darling both.
Speaker 3: You know, if you can move, if you move yourself,
Speaker 3: that is the preferred idea. Sometimes they are just a
Speaker 3: little bit off and you want them to sit just
Speaker 3: like so to get the angle that you want. The
Speaker 3: best way to go about doing that is not to
Speaker 3: use any part of your own body. Because there's something
Speaker 3: about human touched. They recognize it as something to get
Speaker 3: away from. I will find like the stem of a
Speaker 3: leaf or something that is much smaller than them and
Speaker 3: just very gently tried to coax them over into a
Speaker 3: different location. And that I have much greater success with that.
Speaker 2: Oh smart. So they're like, Okay, this leaf just wants
Speaker 2: me to be yah.
Speaker 3: This was like, oh, I know what that is. That's
Speaker 3: that's not going to mean. This is fine.
Speaker 2: It can't feel your heart beat for your fingertips with
Speaker 2: a hunger for mods. Let me see. Okay. I love
Speaker 2: this question. Several people asked it, Kathleen Sachs, Josie Gambas,
Speaker 2: kat Lindsay, Adrian Hollister, and Nicole Wackery because they asked
Speaker 2: it verbatim the exact same question, literally, what has been
Speaker 2: your favorite animal to photograph? And Nicole Bonus question any
Speaker 2: critters that give you the creeps?
Speaker 3: Hmm? Favorite animal to photograph? How specific are we going going? Like?
Speaker 3: Species specific or.
Speaker 2: Sure like even if you're like I met one. Her
Speaker 2: name was Julie. She was a mantis. Like, I'm all
Speaker 2: in as specific as you want to get. I love
Speaker 2: them too.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I had a pet, one named Mirabelle, and she died.
Speaker 2: We had an open casket funeral.
Speaker 3: I have three mantises right now.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Now are those like the orchid ones
Speaker 2: that I've been seeing you photograph?
Speaker 3: I do have the there is a young It wasn't
Speaker 3: an orchid. It was a spiny Asian spiny mantis.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh my gosh, beautiful.
Speaker 3: Is one of those recently. That was when it was
Speaker 3: still very young. It's an adult now, okay.
Speaker 2: So imagine a mantid that looks like something from a
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott fever dream. Just huge shiny eyes and sharp
Speaker 2: angles and spines. It's chilling and tiny and elegant.
Speaker 3: I have the green ghost mantis. I think there's a
Speaker 3: photo of them. And I have an African twig mantis.
Speaker 3: I haven't posted a photo of him yet, but he's
Speaker 3: pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Which is the one that looks like it is like
Speaker 2: an alien. The one that has like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: those ones look like a leaf growed face and then
Speaker 2: became a supermodel. Oh the cheekbones amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I've had three varieties of those. I have
Speaker 3: two photos up there of my black one. She was
Speaker 3: the first one that I ever got. She has since
Speaker 3: passed away because they have a very short life span. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: they only live about twelve to eighteen months. She was
Speaker 3: just at over about twelve months. Mantids are amazing. I
Speaker 3: love to find them and see them, especially in the wild.
Speaker 3: I really wish there was a greater diversity of mantids
Speaker 3: in Oklahoma. I think when we have like one, no,
Speaker 3: we have two species that I'm aware of. And then
Speaker 3: I'm obviously jumping spiders because oh, I don't know how
Speaker 3: anybody doesn't love jumping spiders. Like it's at this point
Speaker 3: I understand. I kind of get, you know, an uneasiness
Speaker 3: about spiders, which sort of answers the other question. So
Speaker 3: I've got I actually started with a little more uneasiness
Speaker 3: about spiders. And then there was one night that I
Speaker 3: was in the park and there was this massive hole
Speaker 3: in a tree, and I was just like, I just
Speaker 3: know there's going to be one night that I'm going
Speaker 3: to shine that hole in the tree and there's going
Speaker 3: to be something in it near it, or something else
Speaker 3: is going to freak me out from the one behold.
Speaker 3: One night I was leaving the park. It was behind me,
Speaker 3: but I remember that it was there. I turned around
Speaker 3: to shine my light and there was a fishing spider.
Speaker 2: Quick aside, how do you describe a fishing spider? It
Speaker 2: is not little. These things pluck fish out of the
Speaker 2: water and they eat them like corn.
Speaker 3: On the cob oh, and the leg span on this
Speaker 3: fishing spider was equal to my hand, and my hands
Speaker 3: aren't small. I can pull them a basketball. And if
Speaker 3: it kind of get it was some like some perspective.
Speaker 3: It was a big spider, and I was like, there's
Speaker 3: no way I cannot take a photo of this. I
Speaker 3: have to rise up to the equation. And I had
Speaker 3: to like kind of coach myself into this to kind
Speaker 3: of get close. I was like, if this thing jumps
Speaker 3: off that tree and onto my face, I'm going to scream.
Speaker 3: But I'm going to do this anyway, even though that's
Speaker 3: maybe a possibility in my imagination, and I did. The
Speaker 3: photos are terrible because this was very early on and
Speaker 3: I'm I desperately want to find another one so that
Speaker 3: I can do this again, because and now I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: now it's been like five years, I'm ready for you.
Speaker 2: Now you're like rematch, dude.
Speaker 3: But I mean, nothing ill came of it, Like I
Speaker 3: don't think she moved at all, Like and I'm certain
Speaker 3: she was a female just because of the size. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's sexually dimorphic males are usually very tiny. She was
Speaker 3: a massive spider.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I just got to struck. I just saw a
Speaker 3: jumping spider on the wall.
Speaker 2: Do you know which one it kind of is?
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it's the Maybia inclements because so my
Speaker 3: partner she keeps dart frogs and tree frogs, so we
Speaker 3: feeded a lot of feeder insects, and so I transplant
Speaker 3: jumping spiders into the house because I have a partner
Speaker 3: that's awesome and lets me do that, and they keep
Speaker 3: the fruit fly count low.
Speaker 1: Oh that's smart.
Speaker 2: Do you have Do you have like a dream assignment
Speaker 2: or project that you would want to work on. Would
Speaker 2: it be to kind of like infiltrate not Geo's ranks
Speaker 2: and have assignments for them. Would you want to publish
Speaker 2: a book? Is there anything that you really want to
Speaker 2: do with your photography that would be like a dream
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 3: So I would absolutely jump with the chance to work
Speaker 3: for someone like nat Geo. So dream assignment though my
Speaker 3: dream would to be able to host like a gallery
Speaker 3: of my images on balls. But I want to do
Speaker 3: this in the hood. I don't want to do this
Speaker 3: in some I mean I would take the opportunity if
Speaker 3: it was at some sort of prestigious location or anything
Speaker 3: like that at all. But I want black children from
Speaker 3: my neighborhood to actually see this and to take an
Speaker 3: interest in it, and to actually see themselves reflected in
Speaker 3: the work that I do and consider it a possibility
Speaker 3: for their own futures. That's my dream opportunity is. I
Speaker 3: want them to have access to what I do because
Speaker 3: I know my doorway into this, coming from a middle
Speaker 3: class military family, is different than what some of my
Speaker 3: black peers experienced earlier in their lives. So more than anything,
Speaker 3: that's what I want.
Speaker 2: Again. He just set up his Patreon yesterday, so if
Speaker 2: you want to see shots he doesn't show on the
Speaker 2: rest of the internet, go to patreon dot com slash Jdmonroe.
Speaker 2: I am like begging him to do a calendar one day,
Speaker 2: but he's plotting his next move so like even.
Speaker 3: Through like the week of Blackbird's Week, And I probably
Speaker 3: now even as much as praise and that I've been getting,
Speaker 3: as much as I appreciate it, like many of my peers,
Speaker 3: I still deal with imposter syndrome. I'm like, am I
Speaker 3: actually as good as some of the people that I
Speaker 3: used to look up to? Like? Am I there? Yet?
Speaker 3: So the whole idea of like printing, selling, and doing
Speaker 3: all these things with my photos. I'm like, I just
Speaker 3: like to take pretty pictures of bugs. And I know,
Speaker 3: I know, I don't burden me with all of the
Speaker 3: other logistics of like being a professional and dealing with money.
Speaker 3: Like to just give me like a really big bag
Speaker 3: of money or something, and I'll just do all of
Speaker 3: this for sort of free, so that I don't actually
Speaker 3: set prices and stuff. Oh.
Speaker 2: My other question from earlier was do you have any
Speaker 2: idea what bird that is singing in the background, because
Speaker 2: I know people are going.
Speaker 3: To ask me what a bird?
Speaker 2: There was a bird earlier and no idea the background.
Speaker 3: Yeah, here with me. Yeah, that was not a bird.
Speaker 3: That was a frog. That was a frog. Ah, what
Speaker 3: kind of frog was that? That was either a dendro
Speaker 3: babies rotis Okay, He wasn't.
Speaker 2: Sure exactly which frog it was because his awesome partner
Speaker 2: has five species of poisoned dart frog and four species
Speaker 2: of tree frog. That is nine more species of frogs
Speaker 2: than I get to live with. And yes, I want
Speaker 2: to be friends with her two so bad. That's amazing.
Speaker 2: I thought that they were birds out the window, but
Speaker 2: I even I love it even more now that I
Speaker 2: know that it's a frog. That's amazing, Because I knew
Speaker 2: people were gonna ask me. Also, I wanted to ask,
Speaker 2: do you have any advice for people that you wish
Speaker 2: you had known earlier or when you were younger, anything
Speaker 2: that you wish you had a voice like yours?
Speaker 3: Man? That is that is a heavy one, wow, so
Speaker 3: one For black children that are raised in non black homes,
Speaker 3: it is perfectly within your right. It is not only
Speaker 3: within your right, but it is good for you and
Speaker 3: necessary for you to understand that your life and your
Speaker 3: experiences and even your personhood is different from other people
Speaker 3: in your family. You do not have to limit yourself
Speaker 3: or push yourself to try to fit in or to
Speaker 3: lower or lessen your blackness to make them comfortable. Not
Speaker 3: even your family. Live in your blackness, love your blackness,
Speaker 3: wear it with pride, and if they cannot accept that,
Speaker 3: move around it and find people who will. Because your
Speaker 3: blackness is not going to go away. This country especially
Speaker 3: will remind you of it the rest of your life,
Speaker 3: especially when you are away from them. So learn to
Speaker 3: love it, learn to live in it, learn to defend it,
Speaker 3: and learn to defend others as well.
Speaker 2: This dude is awesome.
Speaker 3: As far as disability test boundaries, don't be your favor
Speaker 3: to test for boundaries. And I mean that applies to
Speaker 3: not even people with just disability, as that's anybody. You know,
Speaker 3: if you have the ability to do something, see how
Speaker 3: far you can go with it. And if you fail,
Speaker 3: if it goes too far, if you get yourself into trouble,
Speaker 3: take a serious look at it, assess it, and then
Speaker 3: make a create a new approach to it. Like I mean,
Speaker 3: when I'm in the field, it isn't like a lot
Speaker 3: of people are always worried about accessibility and stuff and
Speaker 3: my safety and like I fall down, I've fallen out
Speaker 3: of my chair looking for something. I get out of
Speaker 3: my chair to catch stuff sometimes, you know, it isn't
Speaker 3: like something that is like literally completely attached to me.
Speaker 3: There's a person that is, you know, not completely dependent
Speaker 3: upon the chair. I can move around. Chair just makes
Speaker 3: it a lot easier. Don't worry about my safety or
Speaker 3: my well being. Be a friend if I need help.
Speaker 3: I'm going to get myself into trouble because I want to,
Speaker 3: you know, be the friend that is actually supportive of
Speaker 3: that process.
Speaker 2: Don't be a friend who's trying to impose limits on you.
Speaker 2: That's great. Oh, last questions, I always ask, what is
Speaker 2: one thing about your photography that is the most annoying
Speaker 2: or the thing that you dislike the most. You mentioned
Speaker 2: crumbs on spider hairs, But is there is there anything
Speaker 2: that anything that frustrates you, either from like a micro
Speaker 2: or a macro perspective.
Speaker 3: Not really. The thing I guess with photography with me
Speaker 3: is that it's it's my escape from everything, you know,
Speaker 3: with this is what I do when things like the
Speaker 3: murder of George Floyd and everything else become too much,
Speaker 3: when I need to just kind of set that down
Speaker 3: and take a break and be a person that does
Speaker 3: a thing, And so I grab my camera and I
Speaker 3: go out and some usually as much as I can,
Speaker 3: into some solitary place, and I try to create something
Speaker 3: that is worth appreciating. There really isn't a whole lot
Speaker 3: about that process that, you know, I find too cumbersome.
Speaker 3: That mean, maybe maybe it's just the actual act of
Speaker 3: carrying it around, I think more than anything. Because you know,
Speaker 3: once you with like micro photography, like you have your
Speaker 3: camera and if you shoot like a DSL lar it's
Speaker 3: a larger camera and you have your speed light, and
Speaker 3: depending on the size of your light diffusion system, you know,
Speaker 3: that also takes up space, and so it can get
Speaker 3: a little bit clunky and difficult to carry around a
Speaker 3: little bit. But that's really it. No part of the
Speaker 3: process is too much, other than maybe, you know, like
Speaker 3: the occasional tiger beetle, it doesn't want to sit still
Speaker 3: and just likes to fly away five feet at a
Speaker 3: time just to let you know that he's faster than
Speaker 3: you and that you can't catch me if he doesn't
Speaker 3: want you too. But I mean, even then, you know
Speaker 3: that still has a value because even if I don't
Speaker 3: get a photo, I'm still you know, that's still lived experience.
Speaker 3: I still got to see it. Even if I don't
Speaker 3: get to share it with anybody else, I still got
Speaker 3: to observe its behavior. I get to ponder of you know,
Speaker 3: why is it flying only a few feet away and
Speaker 3: insisting on staying in this area. And the reason that
Speaker 3: it is is because there's a smugsborg of other smaller
Speaker 3: insects that it is preying upon. At that moment. He's like,
Speaker 3: I am not leaving this buffet. I will escape from you,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to continue to eat.
Speaker 2: Also, while on the topic of flying insects, what gives
Speaker 2: him butterflies about wildlife photography? What does he love the most?
Speaker 3: I don't know if anything really gives him butterflies, but
Speaker 3: I mean just the possibility of the next image. It's
Speaker 3: you know, even when you've done something and like you're
Speaker 3: finished with it and you can appreciate it, there's there's
Speaker 3: always room to get better. Or even like it even
Speaker 3: pretends that there's this notion about photography that there's only
Speaker 3: so high you can go, you can only get so good.
Speaker 3: Let's just say that there was an actual a cap
Speaker 3: on that. Even if there was a cap on that
Speaker 3: with wildlife photography, even with that cap in place, that
Speaker 3: imaginary cap in place, there's a limited, a finite number
Speaker 3: of situations that you're going to find yourself in in
Speaker 3: your entire life, even if you're doing wildlife photography every
Speaker 3: day for your entire life, that you're going to find
Speaker 3: yourself in to be able to actually create that shot.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's just it's the possibility of things
Speaker 3: that just keeps you going. You never know, like like
Speaker 3: I come up with different ideas or thoughts of compositions
Speaker 3: when I'm just kind of sitting in that house. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I want to take a picture like of this species
Speaker 3: and this kind of an environment for this location. It's
Speaker 3: just an endless number of possibilities and hoping that by
Speaker 3: the time I'm done and dead that whatever it is
Speaker 3: that I create will have an impact that goes on
Speaker 3: past my.
Speaker 2: Life already has already has. Really just the beauty of
Speaker 2: your work inspires so many people to look at their
Speaker 2: world differently, and the passion behind the way you approach
Speaker 2: the natural world and also sociology and the human experience
Speaker 2: and the black experience and your advocacy for that is Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you have already changed so many lives.
Speaker 3: Well, we're not done yet, Black AF and STEM is
Speaker 3: just getting started, and who knows what's going to come
Speaker 3: of that. I'm looking forward to it because this is
Speaker 3: something that I won't set up until recently that I
Speaker 3: kind of dreamed about it and even know if it
Speaker 3: would actually come be something that would come to fruition
Speaker 3: within my lifetime. So I'm already elated at what we
Speaker 3: were able to do with Black Brother's Week, and I
Speaker 3: don't I don't expect it to be the case, but
Speaker 3: even if we were unable to achieve anything else, I
Speaker 3: would be happy that that exists. I am happy that
Speaker 3: I exist, that that was an experience that I will
Speaker 3: never forget, even if there is even if there was
Speaker 3: nothing else that was similar to it in the future.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, you guys are just going to start it,
Speaker 2: are you kidding? This is like watching an empire being built.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful, It's really great. Yeah. So I'm well, I'm
Speaker 2: just here. I'm here on the sidelines cheering you on.
Speaker 2: Such a huge fan such like a like a very
Speaker 2: authentically huge fan of your work. It's just gorgeous. I'm
Speaker 2: such a huge fan of it, and I'm so glad
Speaker 2: that you took some time out to talk to me. Well,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. I can't wait to put this up.
Speaker 2: This is just it's such an honor to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for letting me be your fan. If I'm
Speaker 2: ever in Oklahoma, I hope maybe we can go out Herpan.
Speaker 3: Or inverting glad to I mean, I've got extra space here.
Speaker 3: I'm never one to not take an adventure when the
Speaker 3: opportunity shows it.
Speaker 2: So I'm there. Well, thank you so so much for
Speaker 2: doing this. So ask smart, talented people, earnest questions, and
Speaker 2: most importantly, listen to what they have to say, and
Speaker 2: follow them on Instagram at Reels on Wheels for some
Speaker 2: absolutely gorgeous, life changing macro photos of some of the
Speaker 2: world's most overlooked beauties. So thank you Joseph for letting
Speaker 2: us look through your lens. Also, if you are working
Speaker 2: from home and maybe spending less money at coffee shops,
Speaker 2: consider becoming a patron of Joseph's. If even a sliver
Speaker 2: of you tossed him a few bucks a month for
Speaker 2: all the free photos that he gives the world, you
Speaker 2: would afford him more time in the field, doing what
Speaker 2: he loves the most and making me your dad so happy.
Speaker 2: And his brand, brand, brand new Patreon page is linked
Speaker 2: in the show notes. It's patreon dot com slash j
Speaker 2: D Monroe. He set it up today, y'all. I was
Speaker 2: his first first patron. Shout out to his wonderful partner
Speaker 2: Haley for helping with that. You can also buy his prints.
Speaker 2: You can get more info that is all on his
Speaker 2: website at paraherpetologica dot com. There is a link right
Speaker 2: in the show notes. Definitely go visit that he's on
Speaker 2: Twitter at Twitter dot com, slash Jdmonroe two ten that
Speaker 2: will be in the show notes, and while you're there,
Speaker 2: also follow black af and Stem They're great. There's also
Speaker 2: so many more cool weeks coming up, like Blacktoweek, Black
Speaker 2: Herper's Week at Black inneuro is another account that's just launched,
Speaker 2: and black in Neurowek is July twenty seventh through August second.
Speaker 2: Don't forget. Mothweek is this week, so get yourself a
Speaker 2: light in a sheet. See who shows up to your
Speaker 2: bug party. We are at Ologies on Twitter on Instagram.
Speaker 2: I'm at Ali Ward with one L on both ologiesmerch
Speaker 2: dot com has your shirts, advisors and caps, even swimsuits
Speaker 2: if you want my name on your actual butt who doesn't.
Speaker 2: Ologies merch dot com is managed by Shannon Fealtis and
Speaker 2: Bonnie Dutch. They are two very hilarious sisters. Who hosts
Speaker 2: the comedy podcast You Are That. Aaron Talbert admins the
Speaker 2: Haven of a Facebook group. Emily White and all the
Speaker 2: Ologies transcribers make transcripts available at Alleyward dot com. Slash
Speaker 2: Ologies to dash extras and the link to those are
Speaker 2: in the show notes. Special thanks to everyone who's ever
Speaker 2: helped transcribing making those episodes accessible to deaf and hard
Speaker 2: of hearing ologites and anyone who needs great descriptions of
Speaker 2: the sound effects in writing. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: doing that. Caleb Patten bleeps episodes to make them kids safe.
Speaker 2: Those are available at the same link. And Noel Dilworth
Speaker 2: helps with all my scheduling. Kelly Dwyer helps with the
Speaker 2: website updates. Jared Sleeper does assistant editing and is just
Speaker 2: a top notch human being. And thank you, of course
Speaker 2: to Herbert at Heart Dino and Kat enthusiast host of
Speaker 2: the podcast, c Jurassic Wright and the percast our lead
Speaker 2: editor Stephen Ray Morris, who's just a gem of a gent.
Speaker 2: Nick Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music. And if
Speaker 2: you stick around to the very very end, right, it's
Speaker 2: like I'm just about to flick the lights on at
Speaker 2: one fifty nine am in a bar and send folk scurry.
Speaker 2: Right before I do it, I tell you a secret
Speaker 2: at the end of each episode, and this week it's
Speaker 2: that I went for a walk in my neighborhood and
Speaker 2: I found a crow roost. I've heard that there's a
Speaker 2: crow roost somewhere within like a three mile radius of here.
Speaker 2: I see the crows flying at night, and I found
Speaker 2: the crow roost. Y'all, there's a thicket of eucalyptus trees
Speaker 2: and that's where the crows all sleep. And I went
Speaker 2: there and there were crow feathers all over the ground.
Speaker 2: I got so excited because they just shed them and
Speaker 2: they fall off while they sleep. Anyway, I know where
Speaker 2: the crows sleep, and I just want to stand under
Speaker 2: the trees and offer them a basket full of breakfast peanuts.
Speaker 2: But I don't know what time crows get up, but
Speaker 2: I feel like it's pretty early. Okay, stay safe where
Speaker 2: I ask, look a bug in the face and tell
Speaker 2: it it's beautiful.
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