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No purchase necessary Void we're prohibited by Law 45 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.200 eighteen plus terms and editions applying to the website for detail. 46 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:15.960 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 47 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.080 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 48 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:26.439 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 49 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.159 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 50 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.759 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 51 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.080 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 52 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:51.599 Good Evening. This is the story of two American teens 53 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:55.879 recruited as killers for a Mexican cartel, and they're pursued 54 00:02:55.960 --> 00:03:01.360 by a Mexican American detective. At first glance, Gabriel Cardona 55 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:06.360 is the poster boy American teenager, great athlete, bright, handsome, 56 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.240 and charismatic, But the streets of his border town of Laredo, 57 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.199 Texas are poor and dangerous, and it isn't long before 58 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:18.120 Gabriel abandons his promising future for the allure of the Zettas, 59 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:22.560 a drug cartel with roots in the Mexican military. His 60 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:26.080 younger friend Bart, as well as others from Gabriel's childhood, 61 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.639 join him in working for the Zettas, boosting cars and 62 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:35.680 smuggling drugs, eventually catching the eye of the cartel's leadership. Meanwhile, 63 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.319 Mexican born detective Robert Garcia has worked hard all his 64 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.199 life and is now struggling to raise his family in 65 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:47.599 America as violence spills over the border. Detective Garcia's pursuit 66 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.520 of the Boys and their cartel leaders puts him face 67 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.919 to faith face with the urgent consequences of a war 68 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:59.360 he sees as unwinnable. In Wolf Boys, Dan Slater shares 69 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.319 their story, taking us from the Sierra Madre mountain tops 70 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.520 to the dark alleys of the Rado, Texas on a 71 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:09.560 harrowing journey into the heart of the Mexican drug trade, 72 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:15.039 and Gabriel's evolution from good major teenager into a feared assassin. 73 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:19.079 Wolf Boys depicts more than just Gabriel bart and the 74 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.879 officers who took them down. It shows the way in 75 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:26.920 which the border itself is changing, disappearing, imposing new, terrifying, 76 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:31.879 and yet largely unseen threats to American security. Ultimately, though 77 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.079 Wolf Boys is the intimate story of the Lobos themselves, 78 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:40.160 boys turn into ponds for cartels. Their stories show how poverty, 79 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.600 ideas about identity and government ignorance have warped the definition 80 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:48.040 of the American dream. The book that we're featuring this 81 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:54.720 evening is wolf Boys, two American teenagers and Mexico's most 82 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.800 Dangerous Drug cart tell with my special guest, journalist and 83 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:06.480 author Slater. There was a mix up with the timing 84 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.639 of this interview this evening, so hopefully we'll wait for 85 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:15.079 Dan Slater to connect. I spoke to him just about 86 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:24.920 forty five minutes ago. Here we have Dan Slater. Good evening, Dan, 87 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.360 welcome to the program. Thank you very much for greeting 88 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:28.040 this interview. 89 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:31.160 Good evening, Dan, it's good to be on your show. 90 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:31.920 Thanks for having me. 91 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:38.519 Thank you very much. Incredible story. What brought you to 92 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:44.240 this book and this project, this investigation that you undertook. 93 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.800 What brought you to this wolf Boys? What is your 94 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.079 background that brought you to this? Why did you want 95 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:50.600 to write this story? 96 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:54.439 Well? I think there are a couple threads, a couple 97 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:59.839 paths that led me to the project. One was, as 98 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:04.720 you suggests, you know, just background I had been. I'd 99 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:06.720 gone to law school, I'd worked very briefly as a 100 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:09.959 lawyer before going into journalism, and I'd landed at the 101 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:13.000 Wall Street Journal, where I covered sort of the legal 102 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.360 affairs beat. And then I was laid off in two 103 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:21.879 thousand and nine, and I hadn't spent too long in journalism, 104 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:24.639 but I was already kind of tired of sort of 105 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:29.920 traditional journalism and newspaper work, and I wanted to start 106 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:31.600 working on books. And I wanted to work on the 107 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.240 kinds of books that I had admired as a reader 108 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.959 and as a kid, and those were largely narrative nonfiction. 109 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.720 Those were the kinds of books I really liked, like 110 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:50.040 Friday Night Lights behind the Beautiful Forevers, and I wanted 111 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.519 to do something like that. I didn't know if I 112 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.720 ever would or when i'd have the opportunity. But then 113 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.680 around that same time that I got laid off, I 114 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.439 saw this story in the New York Times was about 115 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.759 these two boys are actually kind of a group of 116 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.720 boys from Laredo, Texas, which is right on the border. 117 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.319 And these boys, when they, you know, were teenagers, one 118 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:13.399 was as young as thirteen when he started. They'd become 119 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:19.800 assassins for this big Mexican drug cartel, and they had 120 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.959 worked for the cartel, doing hits on both sides of 121 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.160 the border, both in Mexico and in Laredo. And it 122 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.519 was one of those stories that you read and you 123 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.639 don't forget it, and it stuck with me for a 124 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:39.279 long time. And a few years after I saw this story, 125 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:42.199 I saw that their boss, the man who ran the 126 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.639 cartel that they worked for, had been apprehended in Mexico. 127 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:48.480 And so when I saw that story, I thought back 128 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.399 to these boys I'd read about, and I wondered if 129 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:54.480 the arrest of their boss, of the arrest of, you know, 130 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:58.240 the cartel head, would would have any effect favorably on 131 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:00.439 their willingness to open up to me. So I reached 132 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:04.000 out to them in prison there now in the Texas 133 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:10.399 State prison system, and we opened up relationships. I opened 134 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:13.240 up relationships with them. We started to communicate back and forth. 135 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.920 I visited them, we exchanged a lot of letters, and 136 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.560 I started going to Laredo, Texas, And that's how Wolf 137 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.560 Boys kind of got started. It was me kind of 138 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:27.600 throwing out my hands with journalism, wanting to do something 139 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:32.159 that was more narrative, more novelistic, and then sort of 140 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:35.840 the good fortune of having this opportunity come along, and 141 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.559 feeling like it was an important story to tell. 142 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:47.000 Certainly now Laredo, Texas is central in this story. So 143 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:51.200 tell us about Laredo, Texas for those people outside of 144 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.879 Texas and somewhere else in America, especially for our international audience, 145 00:08:55.519 --> 00:09:00.080 tell us about Laredo, Texas and its importance to this story. 146 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:06.600 Laredo is a fascinating city. It's in South Texas. It's 147 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:10.279 right on the border between Texas and Mexico, and if 148 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:14.759 you look at a map, Texas is sort of at 149 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:18.320 the eastern end of the two thousand mile border between 150 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:22.600 the States and Mexico, so it kind of aligns with 151 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:29.600 the Gulf of Mexico. And Laredo is a city that's 152 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:36.440 sort of central on the Texas Mexico border, and it 153 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.759 happens to be where I thirty five begins. I thirty 154 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.000 five is a major freeway that begins in Laredo and 155 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.799 shoots up into the US and goes all the way 156 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.080 up to Duluth, Minnesota, all the way up to Canada 157 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:55.120 almost And so that fact of its geography is turned 158 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:59.879 Laredo into a commercial center. Especially after NAFTA took a 159 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.080 effect in the early and mid nineties, Laredo really became 160 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:08.120 in some ways a boom town for the companies that 161 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:13.360 had invested in it. It was a thruway. It was 162 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:16.480 where all the Mexican goods shipped up into the US 163 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:23.120 arrived through. But there was this weird kind of paradox 164 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:25.720 that developed with Laredo. Even while all the companies that 165 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:29.159 had invest in the town, these fortune five hundred companies 166 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.679 were getting rich off of NAFTA and all the commerce 167 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.879 that went through Laredo itself, and the people of Laredo remained, 168 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:38.799 for the most part, very poor. And Laredo is still 169 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:43.440 even today, it's one of the poorest cities in the US. 170 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.799 So that was one of the questions I had when 171 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.440 I started looking at the story of these Laredo boys 172 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.679 who had gone to work for Mexican drug cartel, is 173 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.960 where did they come from? I mean, what kinds of 174 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:00.480 ghettos and neighborhoods in Laredo had produced them? And when 175 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:05.320 I started looking into that, I found out that these 176 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:09.440 neighborhoods were producing a lot of kids, a lot of 177 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:14.639 young boys who had the same sort of aspiration. They 178 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:17.080 didn't think about going to college, they didn't think about 179 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.679 that sort of future. What they had on their mind 180 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.080 was wanting to go to work for the Zetas, which 181 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.480 is the drug cartel that's right across the border. 182 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.679 Now you talk about this is a two stories that 183 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:33.960 you parallel talk about in the book that you cover, 184 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:42.000 Robert Garcia the detective and Gabriel Cardona primarily. So let's 185 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.440 talk about Robert Garcia. Went you opened the book with 186 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.960 Robert Garcia is twenty nine years old in the autumn 187 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:55.200 of nineteen ninety seven. And this is Robert Garcia Senior. 188 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:01.080 Immigrated from Pedris Nagras, Negraz, Mexico, probably mangle that name 189 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:03.919 to Eagle Pass, Texas. So tell us a little bit 190 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.840 about Robert Garcia and before we talk about Robert Garcia 191 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:09.600 Junior and his life. 192 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:17.360 Robert Garcia Senior and Robert Garcia Junior play a major 193 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.320 role in this book, mainly Robert Garcia Junior, who's the son. 194 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.720 He's the son of the immigrants and he was a 195 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:27.480 He is a fastening character and he's really the counterpoint 196 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.200 to Gabriel and the wolf Boys, to these boys who 197 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:37.120 became operative who even though they were American born and 198 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.000 raised in America, they became the Mexican cartel crooks. And 199 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:46.480 then this guy, Robert Garcia, who immigrated across to Eagle Past, 200 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:49.840 Texas with his family when he was nine. He was, 201 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.480 in a sense from even less than the wolf Boys 202 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.879 were from in Laredo. I mean, he was the son 203 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.000 of these migrant farmers who came across and they worked 204 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:04.159 in the fields and in the cantalope fields picking fruits 205 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.240 and vegetables. In the summertime, they would go up north 206 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.639 to states like Montana, Oregon and such to work the 207 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.600 fields there, the sugar beat season, et cetera. That was 208 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.399 the kind of world that he was raised in, and 209 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:24.360 he eventually decided to forego the college thing he had gotten, 210 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.759 you know, a scholarship. He decided not to go to college, 211 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.360 and Robert instead enlisted in the army, where he met 212 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.879 his wife. And then when he came back to the 213 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:36.840 States in the early nineties, he and his wife settled 214 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.639 in Laredo and he decided to become a cop. So 215 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.840 he went to the police Academy in Laredo and he 216 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.639 became a street cop. And in the nineties, being a 217 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.679 patrol cop in Laredo basically meant making a lot of 218 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:56.559 small drug arrests. Obviously, a lot of drugs moved through 219 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:02.120 that city because of the bridges there, and when you're 220 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:04.000 a street cup in the radar. You make us a 221 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.720 lot of kind of small arrests, and he really got 222 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:10.240 into that as a younger cop. He felt like making 223 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.440 those drug arrests meant meant something because you weren't just 224 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:17.960 taking somebody with drugs off the street. You were taking 225 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.600 somebody who might commit other crimes in order to get 226 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:23.480 the drugs, et cetera. So he really believed in the 227 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.679 drug war and he did his job very well. He 228 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.639 was awarded Officer of the Year in his late twenties, 229 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:36.080 and he was loaned out to the Federal Drug Enforcement 230 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:41.039 Administration for a six year stint, and that was the 231 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.120 first time that Robert got a real global view, or 232 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.480 at least a you know, a national view on the 233 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:53.320 drug war. He started doing more sort of nationwide investigations, 234 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.799 doing undercover work where he'd go to New York, where 235 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:59.000 he'd go up to Detroit, where to go to San Diego. 236 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.000 And he started seen that of all the drugs that 237 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.720 came through Laredo, all the law enforcement there and there's 238 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.759 a lot of law enforcement really don't get any of it. 239 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.799 They can make a lot of small bus on the streets, 240 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.960 they can bust the occasional truck full of marijuana or 241 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.759 cocaine that comes across, But of the overall drug traffic 242 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.879 that comes through that city, maybe in a good year, 243 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:29.039 law enforcement is getting maybe one percent, maybe two percent. 244 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.600 And so I think that was sort of a disillusioning 245 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.679 moment for Robert when he found that out. And so 246 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.279 when he went back to Laredo PD after having served 247 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.159 his time in Dea, he decided to leave these drug 248 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:47.799 investigations behind and he became a homicide detective because he 249 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.799 felt like the drug traffic itself, it was sort of 250 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.039 feudle to put a lot of resources and try to 251 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:56.759 stop that, but the violence, he felt like maybe law 252 00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.559 enforcement could have an impact on that, so he became 253 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.440 a homice side detective. This was in the early UH 254 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:05.480 to mid two thousands, around two thousand and three, four 255 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.240 five and that, And that was right around the time 256 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.519 that the cartel wars in Mexico became very, very bad 257 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.279 and they started to spill over into into the States 258 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.679 and specifically into Laredo and Texas. And and that was 259 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.440 around the time when the Zetas, the Mexican drug cartel 260 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.360 that was right across the border, they began to recruit 261 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.240 these American boys, uh to do their bidding for them 262 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.799 on the you know, the US side. And so Robert 263 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:34.919 was faced with a situation where there were a lot 264 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:39.159 of unsolved homicides happening all around the city of Laredo. 265 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.840 And he started to look into some of these uh 266 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.639 murders and and found you know, common threads, and that's 267 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.799 it was. It was those investigations around two thousand and five, 268 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.360 a spate of murders that had happened that had led 269 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.720 him to Gabriel and uh, these other boys in Laredo 270 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.879 that that he worked with. 271 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:05.559 Now, let's talk about missus Gabriella Cardona. She's got four sons, 272 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:10.279 aged four, six, ten, and eleven. And her second child 273 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:16.759 is Gabrielle and he's a good students. He starts reading early. 274 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.880 His older brother is Louise. And then you write in 275 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.480 their six square block neighborhood, Las Techa, they called it. 276 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:28.039 This was two hundred and fifty years old. So tell 277 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:29.920 us a little bit about you talk about the chaos 278 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.799 at night and the helicopters and the cars squealing. What 279 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:38.720 did Gabriella and his three brothers grow up in. What 280 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.400 was the environment in Laredo, What kind of neighborhood did 281 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:42.960 they grow up in. 282 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.599 So, the neighborhood that Gabrielle and his brothers and his 283 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.160 friends grew up in, as you say, it's called Las Teca, 284 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.440 and it is the oldest neighborhood in Laredo. It's actually 285 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.839 the neighborhood that Laredo originated with. It was the first 286 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:01.839 neighborhood there around the seventeen fifties, before Laredo was even 287 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.279 established as a city, Less Techa existed, and it's this 288 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:10.240 little neighborhood that is very quaint. It's almost kind of quiet, 289 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.880 even though it's right on the border there, right on 290 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.880 the grassy knoll overlooking the Rio Grande, and you can 291 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.440 literally throw a stone to the beginning to buy thirty 292 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.599 five because the bridges are right next door. And so 293 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.880 less Teka for pretty much its entire two hundred and 294 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.839 fifty year existence has really been a smuggling I don't 295 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.119 think village is the right word, because it's as you say, 296 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.799 it's about six by six blocks, it's not even that big. 297 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.640 But it's been a smuggling neighborhood. And so that was 298 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.680 the environment that gabriel and his brothers and his friends 299 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.119 were born into a neighborhood where most of I don't 300 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.039 know if I can say most many, perhaps most of 301 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.079 the men who live there and the boys who live there, 302 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.000 become involved in some aspect of the drug trade. They 303 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.680 and they do that from a fairly young age. And 304 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:04.319 it's not just the drug trade, it's other black market 305 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:10.759 kinds of economies that that that exists there. It's immigrants smuggling, 306 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:16.720 it's smuggling vehicles and guns south from the US into 307 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:22.359 Mexico and supplying the Mexican drug cartels with the things, 308 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.119 with the things they need. So he was really born 309 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.240 into this environment and he and he had a hand 310 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.319 in most of these black market trades by the age 311 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.079 of about sixteen. He'd already dropped out of high school 312 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:39.680 by then. And so less Teco was really a big 313 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:42.880 kind of a character, I think in Wolf Boys, and 314 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.559 it's it's similar to a lot of other neighborhoods in 315 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.480 the city of Laredo, and it's similar to other neighborhoods 316 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:54.160 and other border cities like El Paso, neighborhoods that are 317 00:19:55.480 --> 00:20:02.119 largely Mexican American, if not entirely Mexican American. And you know, 318 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:08.200 basically the kids confronting situations where there doesn't appear to 319 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.160 be a lot of opportunity, and so the juvenile crime 320 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.799 rate is very, very high, and a lot of kids 321 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.880 in these neighborhoods become involved in the street gang life 322 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.599 from pretty young age, and then it becomes almost like 323 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.880 a corporate ladder where you're trying to kind of work 324 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.960 your way up the hierarchy in the underworld. And so 325 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:39.279 for someone like Gabriel to become an employee of the Zetas, 326 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:42.359 the big organization across the border in Mexico, at the 327 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:46.440 age of seventeen or eighteen, and be reporting directly to 328 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.519 the big bosses, that was a very big deal in 329 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.079 his world, and he became very respected, and I think 330 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:57.279 it was very intoxicating for him, as it would be 331 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.559 for a lot of young men to of have that responsibility, 332 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.319 have that respect, and be making as much money as 333 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.039 he was and be able to kind of give money 334 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.240 too friends and family who you know, who had nothing. 335 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.599 Now you talk about his development as a criminal as well, 336 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:23.799 because he ends up working eventually showing his metal and 337 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.640 being recognized and ends up working for a person named 338 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:32.400 Mime Flores, And so tell us about this as you 339 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:38.720 do describing the book, this faithful event where Gabriel meets 340 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.400 up with Miguel Trevino and his take on what has 341 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.079 been happening so far. He's enlightened, to say the least. 342 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.319 So tell us about this incident where he meets somebody 343 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.039 he really respects up that corporate ladder. Yes. 344 00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.960 So, one of the questions, one of the many questions 345 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.160 that I had that kind of launched me into the 346 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.079 Wolf Boys project was the question of how does a 347 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:09.359 you know, how does an American boy from a city 348 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.400 like Laredo, how do you how do you join a 349 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:16.119 Mexican drug cartel? I mean, what is what's the introduction 350 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.279 like which the recruitment process is it? Is it? Is 351 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:21.799 it that you're in school one day and everything was okay, 352 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.160 and you're on the football team, and then you have 353 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.400 a bad week and the next thing you know, you're 354 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.359 talking to someone across the border who runs a drug cartel? 355 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:32.799 Or is it more of a gradual slide? And of course, 356 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:35.839 you know, you'd think it was more of a it'd 357 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.039 be more of a gradual slide. And with him, it 358 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:41.920 certainly was. Gabriel and all of a lot of his 359 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.240 friends they left school at a very early age. They 360 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.200 were working in the underworld at very early age, and 361 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:52.039 with him he had been stealing vehicles. He was very 362 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.799 good at stealing vehicles in the States and bringing them 363 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:58.160 across to Mexico and selling them there in the underworld. 364 00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:59.880 And the reason he was good at it is because 365 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:03.799 he took a lot of sedatives and tranquilizers that sort 366 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.279 of blunted his inhibitions. So he was very good instealing cars. 367 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.640 And one night he and his friend had stolen a 368 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.480 I think it was a jeep Cherokee. It could have 369 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.720 been like any other you know dozen, you know, dozens 370 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:23.200 of evenings, and they took this jeep across and his 371 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.839 friend had a contact at the police station in Mexico 372 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.279 who he thought would buy it. Always the question when 373 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:31.119 they stole a car was who on the other side 374 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.960 were they going to sell to. They had several different contacts, 375 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.319 and so his friend said, oh, I know a cop 376 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.200 at the Mexican police station in Waivo Laredo, the city 377 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.839 across the border in Mexico, And so they went there 378 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.720 and they were told that the cop wasn't in that 379 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.319 evening or wasn't working, So they turned the car around 380 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:55.599 and they decided to go back into Texas. And what 381 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.319 happened on the way back is they were apprehended. They 382 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.920 were stopped, and they were pulled over, and what followed 383 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.240 was an evening that really I think transformed Gabriel's future. 384 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.319 The people who apprehended them before they get back to 385 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:14.960 Texas were people who worked for the Zetas. They had 386 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:20.079 heard that these boys had tried to sell a car 387 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:22.720 to a certain Mexican cop, and that cop was known 388 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:27.079 to work for the opposition. So they took Gabriel and 389 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:31.000 his friend back to a barn on a ranch, and 390 00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:33.720 that was the night that they met Miguel Travino. Miguel 391 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.200 was at that point a mid level boss for the Zetas, 392 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:47.119 an extremely brutal man, has a reputation for extreme violence, 393 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:53.440 and they met him at a barn. Miguel didn't trust them, 394 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.759 he thought they worked the other side. And actually, right 395 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.079 when Miguel was about to throw a grenade into the 396 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.079 barn and just killed them, Gabriel shouted out the name 397 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:07.599 of this guy, Mime Flores, who was another contact that 398 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.799 he had in Mexico, another you know, man that he 399 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:15.119 would sell guns, that he stole to vehicles that he 400 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:20.359 stole to, and so Meme turned out to be a 401 00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:24.119