Speaker 1: At a book in.
Speaker 2: Tonight's guest is Jay. Jay. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, Vick, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate your time. Jay.
Please give us a brief bio on yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I was born in nineteen seventy four to a
military family, and I spent the early years traveling around
the world with my dad in the Air Force and
ended up on the prairies of Canada. And I was
raised on the prairies. I went to high school there,
university there, and studied economics. I have a degree in
economics and I've used that well around the world. Actually,
I kept on traveling and I've used that degree around
the world, mostly in banking and finance. And I currently
reside in East Africa, close to Nairobi, the capital of Kenya.
And yeah, so that's basically that's who I am.
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting way to grow up. When you
were growing up as a kid on the military basis,
were there a lot of other kids to play with
or we kind of isolated.
Speaker 1: No, we had a kindergarten and a high school or
a grade school. In high school just down the street
from us. We probably had. You know, it's not a
large military base, but there was probably I don't know,
four or five thousand people that lived on that base,
and you know, most of them had their families with them,
so there was quite a hive of activity. I guess
you could say a lot of kids, a lot of families,
and there's park spaces, and yeah, we didn't do too
bad living on the military base, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Well that's great. Sounds like a good way to grow
up considering what your dad did. Did you have a
lot more freedom than most kids, or were things more
structured and strict for you? Oh?
Speaker 1: I grew up as a freebird. So DoD being in
the Air Force, he was a firefighter, so we ended up,
you know, riding around in fire trucks and going out
and seeing the airplanes on the runways. And just outside
the military base was all the farmers fields. So we
used to get our twenty twos and we used to
go out there and shoot gophers all day long. And yeah,
we lived the free, the free lifestyle back then. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way to grow up. That's how
it was when I was growing up. You just go
out and as long as you're home by the time
the street lights come on. You're golden. But your parents
didn't know where you were. And I just loved all
that freedom. That's the way to do it, it really is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first mother that would yell supper, so then
you knew it was time to come home. Whoever's house
you were closest to mom, some mom would yell supper
and all the kids would have to run home at
that time. So, yeah, those were the good times.
Speaker 2: That they were. Yeah, they definitely were. Did you have
a lot of trouble getting off of the base level?
You talked about heading out to the land surrounding the
bases with your twenty two's. I didn't think it was
all that easy for kids to come and go from
military bases, was it.
Speaker 1: Well, so back in the eighties when I lived on
that base, we had a side entrance was for the
civilian side, so the civilians would come into the sort
of the backside of the gate where the you know,
the housewives and the kids would all be. Well, the
men were all working on the military base, so we
had a back gate and that gate wasn't closed during
the day, and in fact, there was no guard on
that gate either you could just come and go as
you please. It was only after about I don't know,
say eight o'clock at night when they would actually close
the gate, and then I would become a gated community,
and then the guards would start patrolling and the military
police would be out that sort of thing. But during
the day, our little part of the military base was
almost like a small little village. You know. There were
shops and there was a bakery there. There was a
Canex duty free store, like I say, the schools were
there at the parks, and so it was almost like
a little village within a military base.
Speaker 2: Well not bad, sounds like you had a really good arrangement.
Speaker 1: How big was that base though, Well, so it was
set up as a cold war base, I believe it
come about in the nineteen sixties, and it was used
as a radar base, and they got an underground nuclear
bunker there, and they had multiple runways and it was
actually a fighter wing was attached there a fight It
was part of some sort of air wing where they
trained pilots and they had freighter planes and cargo planes
and all these little T thirty three things or whatever,
those little trainer jets they had there, and lots of helicopters.
Lots of helicopters there, and so that wasn't a huge base,
but like I say, three or four thousand people probably
lived on that base, and for me being a small child,
it was a pretty big place, pretty exciting place. Actually, Yeah,
sure it sounds like it. Like I said, it sounds
like it was a.
Speaker 2: Great place to grow up. How many people have you
shared your experience with? I have.
Speaker 1: Since Okay, when the experience happened, I was only close
family members that knew about it. I kept it very
tight because I was traumatized by it and I didn't
think people would believe me. And even when I spoke
to a psychiatrist later on, he didn't even believe me.
So I just basically kept it under wraps. And it
wasn't until I started dating a European girl and I
explained to her what happened. I trust her enough that
I told her, and she didn't laugh at the idea,
and she didn't put me down about the idea, and
I realized that maybe there are people that can take
a story like this without subject acting me to ridicule.
So then, as you know, as my friend's circle expanded
through time. I've probably told you know, I don't know,
call it two dozen people that know about this story. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't want to jump to conclusions. But when you
told her about your experience and she didn't laugh at you,
she seemed to be receptive to it, was that the
start of your recovery from that encounter?
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, this goes back into the university years. So
this is where I decided that I wasn't going to
be afraid of the encounter anymore. I wasn't going to
be afraid of this beast, and I would start opening
up and sharing the story a little bit more with people,
and I wasn't going to live in fear of this beast.
And if people weren't going to, uh, well, even if
they were going to laugh at me, even if they
were going to have some ridicule, well, then so be it,
you know, And I'm just not gonna I'm not going
to live with this the trauma of having that in
my heart and in my head and being scared of
the pump and the night sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you took that mindset. So many
eyewitnesses live as if they're in a prison with no walls,
they can't tell anyone for fear of how it's going
to be received. So to hear that you actually did
start sharing it, that's great, That's really good. Do you
wear your encounter like a badge of honor or see
it as a curse?
Speaker 1: I probably see it both ways. It made me who
I am in the sense that I grew a lot
of courage out of it, and I got the courage
to travel the world, to step out of the box
and not be afraid of what's out there. I guess
to be afraid of society, to be afraid of the world.
That overcoming of fear had to happen first through the wolf,
and I had to lose fear of the wolf and
then step outside into the real world. And so that
is a blessing. But for that first ten years after
the encounter, it was a curse. It was trauma. It
was deep, deep, dark, morbid, nightmare, traumatizing horror. Basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I can understand why, considering what happened, But
I'm just glad that you were able to come to
terms with it. Finally over the years as the years
went by, rank goodness for that. If you've had a
Dogman encounter, I would like to speak with me about it,
whether I'm private or on the show. Please go to
Dogmanencounters dot com and submit a report. If you've had
a bigfoot sighting and we'd like to be a guest
on one of my two bigfoot shows, please go to
my Bigfoot Sighting dot com. All right, Jay, please tell
us about your encounter. Now give us everal last detail
that comes to mind.
Speaker 1: Well, this incident happened in either nineteen eighty three or
nineteen eighty four, and I was a child living on
a military base. The base was called CFB Penhold. It's
located next to Red Dar, Alberta. It was a air
base with a big I guess it was a big
radar station to keep out the Soviets, and they had
a big nuclear underground bunker to protect all the politicians
in case we were ever attacked. And they had an
air wing there where they trained fighter pilots and you know,
lots of cargo planes and helicopters. And my father was
attached there's a as a firefighter on the airside crash rescue.
And we lived in a part of the base called
the PMQ's the private married quarters. So this is kind
of like a civilian area of the base where all
of these soldiers could live with their families and their wives.
There was a kindergarten, a school, and a little store
called Canucks, and for the most part, all the civilians
were kept on that side of the base. That access
to that side of the base was open. During the day,
you could walk in and out through a gate. You
could leave the base anytime you wanted. Our house was
only probably about two hundred meters of the one of
the gates to get in and out. But at night,
that part of the base would be what you call
now would be a closed gated community. They'd lock the
gates and everything be locked down for the night, and
if you wanted to actually enter that area, you'd have
to go all the way through the main guard booth
in front of the military base and drive all the
way through the base to get to the PMQ area.
The reason why I'm talking about this is because if
you walk outside that gate, there is nothing out there.
There's just farmers fields. There's no forest, there's no rivers
or anything. It's just desolate prairie. So this incident happened
pretty much in a village setting, if you can imagine
a PMQ's on a military base surrounded by farmers fields
in a very village like setting. The house that we
lived in was a military sort of bungalow, two stories,
very small. The upstairs had two bedrooms, downstairs had one
small little kitchen, Like I said, single bathroom. And these
are just like little row house bungalows that all the
soldiers lived on. They're probably built back in the nineteen
fifties nineteen sixties, little tiny cardboard houses. Basically, I'm I'm
emotional discussing this because it brings back a lot of memories.
But that little house three hundred meters from that gate,
out in the middle of the Bald Prairies. One night
I was sleeping and something had woken me up, and
I woke up facing the wall. I was looking at
the wall. I don't know what woke me up. I
can still remember the wallpaper had these brown squares, and
I'm staring at those little brown squares, wide awake, and
I hear something outside my bedroom door, and the first
thing I thought was maybe my mother's in the kitchen.
I had no reason to be scared. I'd never experienced
any fear from anything or anybody, you know, just a
small kid. And then the latch of my door popped open, click,
and the door swam open, and I was kind of frozen.
I was just staring up my walk, kind of frozen,
and then I heard it. It had a very very deep,
raspy breath, and it walked into my room and it
walked over to the edge of my bed. Now I
hadn't rolled over yet. I was sort of petrified. I
was sort of fearful looking at the wall, and this
thing was getting louder and closer and walked up to
the edge of my bed and then it leaned over
me and it stuck its muzzle into my neck, and
I could feel its breath on the back of my neck,
and I could smell its breath. I could hear it
breathing in my ear from two inches away, and I
freaked out. I sat up, I jerked up into the
bed and threw myself into the corner, my back up
against the wall, my knees around my chest, my arms
around my knees. I was literally cornered. I was cornered
in my own bed and this creature three feet away
from me. I was just rising up from where I'd
just been leaning over sniffing me. Was just rising up
to its full posture. This thing was huge. My dad
was a six foot two firefighter. My dad was a
big man. But this thing, this thing was on a
different level. This thing was huge. It had It had
a dog's head, I would say a German shepherd's head.
The color of its fur was was that of a
blue healer dog, to be honest, that modeled gray black
sort of look. It stood there huge, must have been
about seven feet tall. The roof of the building. The
ceiling of the building is eight feet. Its head did
not touch the ceiling, so I estimated it probably be
about seven feet tall. And it was huge. It was wide,
it was broad. It was enormously huge. It rippled with muscles.
The hair that come down off of its neck, the
dog's head, it was normal like how you envision any
German shepherd dog. The hair came down onto its neck,
onto its shoulders, very hairy, not shaggy, but harry shoulders,
the upper chest, the upper part of its body, spicepped
area were all very hairy. And as it went down
lower onto the body, lower onto the torso there was
less and less hair to the point where you got
to its abs, let's say, and there was very little hair.
You can clearly see the skin. You could clearly see
that the muscles just rippling under well what little fuzzin
further was left on its skin. In its right ear,
it had a blue badge about the size of a
silver dollar. This is the type blue badge that I
would say, you could say like Democrat or whatever. And
they have these little pins that they put on their
lapels or onto their shirts. It's like one of those
type of pins. And it was baby blue, and it
was just stuck in its ear. The other ear was
missing the tip. The tip of its ear was actually
ripped off. It was jagged. It looked like an old wound.
It wasn't bleeding or sore or anything. It just wasn't there.
It ripped off. So one blue pin in one ear,
one ripped off tip. Its four arms were incredibly long.
It had really really long arms from its elbow down
to its hands. And it had hands. It was really long,
like it's disproportionately long forearm, and its hands had and
five fingers had fingernails. There were really long fingernails. These
black fingernails that were about an inch and a half long,
sticking out all the ends of its fingers, really long
fingernails like claws. Almost this next part, how it all
gets pretty strange from here from the waist down now.
Its waist was very narrow. It had a very narrow waist,
almost disproportionately narrow to the to the broadness of its chest.
It was wearing. It was wearing blue jeans, but cut
off blue jeans like shorts, like blue jeans shorts, and
they were cut off above the knee. There was no belt,
and the and the and the jeans themselves were torn
and ragged, and they were like old jeans that someone
had just thrown on. But he's wearing pants at least
down to the knees. I couldn't see beyond his knees
because the bed was in the way. The well, it's
really strange. I tried to scream. I tried to scream.
My mouth was agape. I was trying my best, and
I couldn't get any sound out. I couldn't make any sounds.
I couldn't. It was just petrified in fear. I was
comatose with fear. I was it started to pace somehow
could see that. I was trying to scream my fear
of might I don't know. It sent something and it
started to pace. It started to move up and down
from the end of the bed to the pillow. I
mean for it. It was only like one or two steps.
It would stepped down to the end of the bed,
it would step back to the pillow. It stepped the
ind of the bed again, did this three or four times.
All the while it was looking at me. It never
turned its head. Its head was always his eyes were
locked onto me. Its eyes. Its eyes were black. I've
heard stories about amber eyes and golden eyes. This thing
had black eyes, like black pits. Anyways, moved back and
forth along the bed. Finally, finally I got my scream out.
It seemed like eternity. It seemed like I was sitting
there for hours, but I know this is only literally
a few seconds. And I finally screamed. I screamed at
the top of my lums. I screamed up primal scream.
I screamed them my mother. I could hear her coming
down the stairs, and she's jumping two three stairs at
a time, and she ran into to get to me,
to get to her young son. She busts through the
bedroom door and she flies in, and the wolf steps
behind my mom. It literally steps behind her, back to back.
It's right behind my mom. And I can't formulate words,
I can't formulate thoughts. I'm pointing, and I'm saying, they're they're,
they're they're there there there there there. That's all I
could say was the word there. And of course I'm
pointing at my mom because it's standing behind my mom,
and my mom switches to the left and listening, moves
to the left, and my mom goes to the right
and then moves to the right, and it goes back
and forth. It like a dance. It's like a dance
with these mom standing back to back with this wolf
who's towering or the top of her. My mother takes
a step towards the light switch and she goes to
flick it on, and this wolf looks at me and
it smiles. It actually smiles. I don't it wasn't a
snarl of I don't not explain it other than this
thing just literally smiled at me, this deep, knowing, dark smile.
And this is where it gets really, really really strange.
Split second before my mother clicked on that light switch.
This wolf jumped to my window. It jumped at enormous speed.
It was incredible speed. It just leaped towards my closed
bedroom window. As it's flying towards the window, it turns
turns into this is crazy. It turns into a blue
ball of light the size of a golf ball. This pale,
shimmering blue ball of light that's moving at such a
rapid speed that it actually looks like it has a
tail on it. It looks like there's a tail hanging
out behind this blue ball. It's moving so fast. The
blue ball gets to the window and just as it
goes through the window, being the lights come on and
it's gone. It's gone. Now I am an absolute nervous wreck.
I'm a puddle of mess. My brain cells are banging
around on the inside of my skull, turning into mush.
I'm I'm almost like zombiefide. Really, I don't recover well
from this. Takes me quite a few years. But because
my father was in the military and we were in Canada,
we had access to medical care. So I actually had
to go and see a chiatrist is not a psychologist,
but a psychiatrist, and he ended up putting me on
sleeping pills because sleep was out of the question for me.
I spent months without sleep. I would just I'd have
that at that sleep disorder where you would just fall
asleep at the kitchen table, or he'd fall asleep standing
up because I wasn't sleeping during the evenings. So anyways,
the psychiatrist, he gives me this sleeping pills, and he
also prescribes this tea. I remember this tea. He gave
me something called Camra mile tea. Got that tasted like horrible,
horrible juice man, and it was I had to drink
this camera male tea and take a sleeping pill so
that I would be able to get some sleep, at
least well chemically induced sleep, but sleep nonetheless. And I
went on for years like that and fighting these nightmares
and fighting these this fear of the fear of the unknown. Eventually,
you know, I went to a university, and that's probably mean,
you know, when I was a young adult, and at
that point I was also six foot two and two
hundred pounds of muscle. I figured the only way to
get out of this fear for the last ten years
of my life was to challenge it. Ask it to
come back to. I don't know. I don't know how
I could challenge it, but I wanted to do something
about it. I wanted to come back. I wanted to
see him. I wanted to fight him, challenge him, talk
to him or I don't know what it was. I
just I needed to get resolution on the matter. But
it never came back. And I mean that was thirty
years ago when I was in university. So I decided
to leave after my university years, I decided to leave Alberta.
I wanted to leave all the nightmares behind and all
the trauma all that had happened that night. And I
mean it really, it really affected me. I mean it
was it was primal fear. It was it was the
monster under the bed moment. You know when the monster
comes out to finally get you. That was the moment.
And yeah, so I left Alberta. I left Canada, to
be honest, and I ended up migrating halfway around the
world to get away from that. Still halfway around the world.
But yeah, so that is basically my story.
Speaker 2: You said that you were lying in bed when that
dog me and Slash Werewolf came into your bedroom. What
kind of long lasting effects have you suffered through to
present day as a result of that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when you're when you're raised in such
a safe and secure environment all your life and you
know monsters don't exist. I mean, there was there was
no horror movies in my life. My mom would never
let me watch things like that on television, So so
what come out of the would work that night? I
mean that was just the mind numbing bottom of the
pit depths of hell sort of sort of encounter, and
it affected me in ways that you know, you don't
trust people even you can't trust people because you can't
tell them what you think. You can't open up. Yeah,
and you sort of live with that fear that you
know what you saw, but if you tell people what
you saw, they're not going to believe you. There's absolutely
no chance they're ever going to believe you, and then
you're just going to be branded with some sort of
weird label. And so you have to sort of hide
your feelings. And as I progress to the years, as
you meet you know, more open minded and like minded people.
My story probably is known by fifteen or twenty people
out there, whether they believe me or not, but at
least they have an ear to talk to, a shoulder
to cry on sort of thing. But yeah, it was.
It was long lasting. The trauma was long lasting for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it was, and I can understand why.
At first, every indication is that what you encountered that
night was a werewolf up until the point where it
transformed into that blue ball and flew towards the window.
How much more difficult do you think this experience has
been for you, considering all the factors surround it, having
pants on and it transforming into that blue ball. How
much more difficult do you think those factors make this
experience than if you would have seemingly just had a
bonafide dog meaning encounter.
Speaker 1: Well, I had never heard the term dog matt until recently,
probably from your channel. To be honest, I've always considered
it to be a were wolf. And I don't know
where this came from, but a picture had popped up
one day on one of my feeds somewhere, and it
was a picture of a were wolf, and it was
the picture of exactly the creature I saw. I don't
know where this picture come from. I don't know if
it was artificially generated or someone's drawing or trail cam.
I don't know what it was, but it was a
picture and it was pretty much what I saw that night,
and that got my interest rekindled after all these years.
And I'm staring there looking at my werewolf, and I'm like, oh,
they're calling it a dog man, and I googled the
term dog matt, and of course your podcast popped up,
and this is actually the first time I've ever heard
dog man. So I don't know what the difference would
be between the two creatures. This thing was, well, it
was a man with a wolve's head, let's put it
that way, a man of the dog's head, but not
a man. I mean, this thing was so huge, you
we say, so well built. I mean there's I've never
met a human being in my life that has a
chest that size. I mean, there's just no there's no
human that is physically that big. And even the dog's
head was proportionally was bigger than any dog I'd ever
seen in my life either. So what's the difference between
a dog man and a warble? I really don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people don't know the answer to
that question. The answer is dogmen look the way they
do twenty four seven three sixty five. But a weir
wolf has the ability to transform from a person to
that of the beast, the beast that looks like a
were wolf or a dog man basically, But considering the
fact that what you saw it transformed into that blue ball,
I have no idea what that was. I'm just so
sorry you had to experience that. That's horrible. I'm wondering
though you described it as looking like a big man
with a dog's head or a wolf's head, does that
mean that its leg structure was hominid or did it
have hawks and stifled joints instead of ankles and knee joints.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't see below its knees. The upper legs
were obviously in a pair of jeans. I don't think
out of tail, because how would you put a tail
inside a pair of blue jeans? So I don't think
it out of tail, So I definitely think it's homeind
from the bottom down, the upper thighs were big. I mean,
I mean proportionally as strong as what his chest would
be like. He had big legs, But were they bent
backwards or they hawks?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. I definitely didn't see that this
was a man, a huge man with the dog's head
and below the knees. I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 2: Well. Also, I mean, you're such shock. You're doing good
to know what your name was at the time. So
the fact that you noticed the jeans and the way
its thighs looked and all that, that's impressive. That's really impressive.
Did your parents seem to believe you when you told
them about what had happened?
Speaker 1: My mother said she smelt something in the room. So
I've talked to her, you know, many times since, and
she said when she entered the room, she said she
could feel a presence. But I mean that could have
been just me with my emotional energy. She's feeling scared
because I'm scared. But she confided in me that she
smelt the smell of meat in the room, and that's
the smell of its breath. When it leaned over me
and it breathed into my face, I could smell meat,
not rotten meat, but not fresh meat either. Just you
know how meat smells, that's what does breath smelled like.
And my mom confided in me many years later, she said, yeah,
she said I could smell meat in that So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they do have some strange smells, rotting meat
and sulfur. Sometimes other smells as well, urine feces. It's
really hard to know for sure what you're going to
expect to smell. You said your mother, Well, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I was just going to mention the blue badge in
its ear. I mean, I've never heard of anybody indicating
whether a dog maunt of Wellbell has markings Harry's badges
on their bodies. I just don't have any idea what
that could be.
Speaker 2: Well, you're not alone in noticing that. Episode two fifty
seven had a guest come on named Roy. He talked
about seeing a big black dog Meum, that had something
in its ear. He didn't know for sure what it was.
But it's not just you. That's not unprecedented. You said
that your mother believed you. What about your dad?
Speaker 1: What it is? Take seemed to be on all this.
My dad actually did something pretty remarkable about a year
into this, because I was fairly stressed. I couldn't sleep,
had to, you know, take those sleeping pills still, and
he actually got a group of soldiers to come over
to the house and they were all heavily armed and
in other flat jackets and their rifles, and he basically
announced that they were going to cleanse the house, and
he had me and my mom stand in the car
part while they went into the house. Now I'm sure
they all just sat around the kitchen table and drank
coffee for twenty minutes. But when they come out, the
leader of that pack basically come over to me and said,
you know, we've searched this entire house. There's nothing in there.
And I remember pointing out that there was a covey
in behind my dad's bed, and I said, did you
find that covey? It was like a duct coupy producting
for the house. And he says, yeah, he says, I
crawled in there on my hands, knees myself. He says,
I've searched that entire house. We've been up and down everywhere.
He says, whatever was here, he's not here anymore. And
it's definitely scared to come back because it knows we're here.
And if your father calls us, we'll be here in
two minutes and we'll take care of this thing. So
this was just a you know, a momotional play on
a child's mind. I mean I was a ten year old.
I mean it wasn't that small of a child. I
was ten years old. But this was a show of force.
And this is how my dad could deal with because
he was a soldier. So this show forced to show
his son that he's the boss. This is his house.
Nothing's getting into his house. Ese are his soldiers or
his friends anyways. And I think that actually helped me.
I think that that showed me that people were on
my side, that people believed in me, that nobody was
laughing at me, and the guys with the guns were
just literally around the corner and there they were there
to help me if I needed it. So, yeah, that
was a game changer.
Speaker 2: I'd say, Wow, what a great dad. I'm so glad
he did that. What a good man. You didn't know
what to expect when your parents sent you to see
that psychiatrist. That's a given you're just ten years old.
But looking back on how they treated you, what they
decided to do, are you happy with how they handled
the situation or do you think it was just a
waste of time.
Speaker 1: Well, I think they were pretty much out of their element.
They didn't know how to deal with a kid who
saw the you know, the boogeyman. They just didn't really
know how to deal with the situation, so they, you know,
they did the best they could. And then they realized
I wasn't sleeping, and I think it's called narcolepsy when
you just fall asleep randomly because of lack of sleep.
The stress levels are so high, and they you know,
they didn't know what to do, so they saw medical help,
and I'm not so sure that it really helped. You know,
probably the soldiers in the house with their guns was
probably a bigger help mentally psychologically for a child. But
I remember the psychiatrist himself, I definitely remember he did
not believe me. He absolutely did not believe me. And
so it doesn't really help when you're trying to tell
your story to somebody who basically just you know, doesn't believe,
just basically thinks you're just having nightmares, even you've dreamt
it all, you know. I mean, you can dream some
pretty wild dreams, and you can have some pretty vivid dreams,
but you're not standing there scream and smell and feel
and touch and know wide awake. They ain't no dream,
you know, this is the real world. And when the
psychologist himself doesn't believe it, you're trying to lose faith.
You lose faith in that and that sort of help.
Speaker 2: Well, of course you do. Yeah, there are people out
there who are naive enough to believe. Well, if you
have a dog man the counter, just go seek professional help.
Problem solved. But in a lot of cases, that's just
going to make the matter worse. So I definitely don't
recommend doing that. But let me qualify that, Yes, there
are psychologists out there. There are psychiatrists out there who
will believe you and who will listen to you. But
the odds of actually finding one who will are like
hitting the lottery. So yeah, your odds of actually having
a situation turn out for the better by seeking professional
help are nigh impossible.
Speaker 1: They really are. Yeah. I think the best thing that
I did was when I, like I said, when I
was a young adult in university, when I actually decided
I would try to challenge this thing, you know, And
I used to go for walks in the park at night,
and I used to yell out there and say, come
come come back, you know, just just get back here.
I want to see you again. We're going to It's
resolved this, and I would. I really thought that if
I could get him to come back, I would be
able to close the issue. And of course he never
did come back. But that just alone read me willing
to challenge it, be willing to say, I'm not afraid anymore.
This this boy is not afraid. This is not a
little child anymore. This is a big man. And I'm
going to deal with the problem when the problem gets
to me. And just the fact that I tried to
do that actually changed the picture completely. It It set
me free. So I sleep well at night now, and
you know I don't I don't have any issues with
it now. I mean, I'm going to probably double lock
the doors tonight and get out my room, go and
put it next to my bed maybe, But yeah, it's
far behind me.
Speaker 2: Now, Well that's great. I'm so glad it is.
Speaker 1: And you know how it is.
Speaker 2: When you're that age, you're strong, and you're still young,
and everything your bulletproof, at least in your mind you are.
So I can understand why you did that. But looking back,
with your wisdom, with your knowledge, now do you wish
you wouldn't have done that? Because if you shake enough
trees a leopard just might fall out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what I would have actually have
done if it had ever come back. I like to
think in my head I would have challenged it. I
would have pulled out my pistol or got my knife out,
or I would have you know, I would have physically
challenged this creature. And but you know, the thing was
so huge. I wouldn't have stood a chance anyway. It's
even with the pistol. Thing was monstrous. But it was
just closure. It was just mental closure. At least I
challenged it in my mind, even if I didn't ever
see it or ever have a chance to physically do
anything with it a second time. At least in my
own mind, I was ready for the fight, and that
gave me closure. Yeah. So I ended up leaving Canada
and moving halfway around the world, and I left all
that behind. I think I've been back to Canada three
or four times in the last twenty five years, and
I've settled a new life. And yeah, I think the
demons and the evils of whatever's out there on the
prairies is true and far behind.
Speaker 2: Me now, well hopefully. So. I'm kind of conflicted on
whether to let you know about this or not. But
dog men are in Africa. I don't know about werewolves
if they actually do exist. Which listening to you talk
about your experience, if that wasn't a were wolf, I
don't know what it was. But yeah, I mean, the odds,
even if you were a stateside or in Canada, the
odds of you having another encounter are very very remote.
For whatever that helps. But moving on there down the road,
if you were to have another experience, do you think
that's a good thing now or a bad thing? Because
if you did have another ex experience, I guess there's
that remote possibility that would allow you to bring closure
to all this. I don't know you, so I'm not
sure how your thinking works. So that's why I was
asking me about that.
Speaker 1: Well, I think if I saw another one, I don't
think I would be frightened, because I had so much
fear and trauma for all those years that I've run
out of fear. It's gone. I truly think that if
I bumped into one tonight on the street, I would
ponder it. I would probably try to talk to it.
I would probably try to engage with it. My younger
me ten years ago or twenty years ago, probably would
have tried to fight it or kill it, But I
don't think it would affect me anywhere near as strongly, irrationally,
as poorly as it did all those years back. If
I've never heard of dog men being here in Kenya
where I stay, I've never heard the locals talk about them.
They talk about things like the night runners and these
creatures that run around at night, banging on the roofs
and banging on their doors. But as far as those
night runners go, I don't. I don't think there's any
physical description of them. It's more like just you know,
bumps in the night. So I've never actually heard of
dog men being around my at least in my area
of Kenya.
Speaker 2: Night Runners what are they supposed to look like.
Speaker 1: Well, they're supposed to be ethereal. I guess they're sort
of smoke and mirrors, and they just you know, throw
stones at your house and knock on your door in
the middle of the night and wake you up. And
they're you know, the banshee. The banshee sounds the yelling
and screaming at night. And there's there's also people that
mimic the night runners. So people will go out and
they will have big bonfires and then they'll run around
the villages in the tribal parts of Kenya, and they'll
also mimic the antics of a night runner and they
call themselves night runners as well. So yeah, it's sort
of more of a superstition or a lore or ah
things that go bump in the night. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, Jay running around the middle of the night pretending
to be a night runner in Kenya. That doesn't sound
like a very wise move. That's a good way to
get the windlet out.
Speaker 1: Of you, absolutely, Yeah, especially out here in rural Africa, Mana,
you're going to get a pang of a machety attack
on you. So yeah, not not a very safe sport,
that's for sure. No, it's not.
Speaker 2: I could think of places where it'd be a lot
safer to do something like that, but definitely not a
good idea at all.
Speaker 1: There's also a place here called Nandy which is pretty
close to where I live, and apparently there's a thing
called the Nandy Bear and it goes back to the
colonial days. It hasn't been seen in a long time,
but this Nandy Bear is supposedly well a bigfoot and
it's up in the Nandy Hills by a town called Elderrat,
which is about three hundred kilometers from where I live.
And yeah, the Nandy bear was a thing in the
colonial times, but like a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I thought I had heard about sasquatch being in Africa,
but never really did hear all that much about that,
So that's interesting. I don't need to ask you if
you think this thing was intelligent, because it's clear you
definitely do believe it was intelligent because of the way
it acted and conducted itself. But when we look at
the big picture here, here you were this little kid
in bed cornered by this thing. If we don't lose
sight of the fact that it had intelligence, why do
you think it went through all the trouble to come
into your bedroom and not hurt you when it had
every opportunity to do so.
Speaker 1: I think that it walked in the front door of
the house because we didn't lock our doors. We lived
on a military base in what I called a gated community, right,
nobody locked their doors. This is in the eighties, in
a very secure area of the world. Nobody locked their doors.
I think this thing just literally walked in the front door,
walked up to the first door on the right and
opened the door and walked in there. I was. I
think that's that's all that happened. This thing did not
try to grab me, It didn't try to cost me.
It didn't do anything to me except just stare at me.
It literally almost like it just walked in off the
street and it was as stunned by seeing me as
I was done by seeing it. And it just literally
stood there and breathed this raspy, stinking breath at me
and just looked at me and then gave me that
final smile and jumped out my window. For all the
fear and as scared as I was, this thing never
actually attempted to do anything to me. It didn't. It
didn't even have a threatening mannerism at all. It just
literally didn't snarl at me. It didn't it didn't bark
at me, it didn't howl. It just literally paced up
and down the end of my bed and jumped out
my window.
Speaker 2: Well, thank goodness left eventually watching it do that hiding
thing behind your mom's back, that'd be almost as traumatizing
as being cornered by this thing as it's looming over you.
That's horrible.
Speaker 1: This thing was smart. It knew my mom was coming.
It prepared for her to come through the door. It
hurt her coming, prepared for her. It jumped behind her.
It was it was extremely quick, extremely quick, like lightning fast.
And yeah, very intelligent. But the way that it looked
at me in the bed, I would almost say it
was curious. I always say there was curiosity. It was
almost like, what is this thing? Or you know, I
don't know. Obviously I must know what I am, but
I'm looking at me and the way I'm sleeping or
my size or I don't know. It was curious. And
the way it smiled at me before I jumped was
an intelligent smile. It was communicating something. It was communicating goodbye,
maybe a goodbye smile or a you know, nice knowing
you smile. And then I left. There was it was
definitely intelligent, absolutely intelligent.
Speaker 2: Oh it sure sounds like it. I'm not really sure
the best way to ask this next question considering how
big it was, but also at the same time, the
fact that you said it was lightning fast, being able
to move stay behind your mother. She would look this way,
it would move the other way behind her, and vice versa.
Did it look like it had weight or did it
seem to be weightless? And that's how it was able
to be so quick.
Speaker 1: I would put it, I probably say weightless. This thing
was shifting from to the left to the right. I mean,
my mother was doing it and this thing was matching
it at the same speed. But it had to know
my mother was doing it. It has to be like,
it has to be half a second ahead of my
mother to be able to keep out of her vision, right,
And it's always keeping out of her vision. So it's
moving almost ethereally. It's almost moving like like it's like
when it turned into the blue light. It's it's almost
not human. It's it's almost like it's not part of
the physical world. It's it's I don't even know the
words for it. I don't have the words for it.
It's ethereal. It's not it's not real. It's like it's
I don't know, I don't know the words for it.
I just don't. I don't. I don't possess the words
for that type of motion, that type of creature. It's
almost like spotty. When you watch it move from the
left to the right, it's almost like it's twitching. It's
like like it's twitching fast. It's it's not like a
smooth movement. It's it's it's twitching through its movements. It's
it's it's almost like it's there one minute and one
second and not there the next second. So is it waitless,
I don't know. I don't know. It's it's almost like
it's not real. It's almost like it's you're looking at
a reflection or something. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense, And it's funny talking about
things that aren't unprecedented. I've spoken with other eyewitnesses, dogman eyewitnesses,
that is, who talked about noticing twitchy movements from the
dogmen that they saw. Now, again, we don't know what
this thing was. Doesn't seem to be a dog mean
doing the things that this thing did, But people have
told me about noticing a twitchy hard to describe the movements,
but a jerky kind of a twitchy movement to the
dogman that they saw. So it's not just you.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I, again I've not heard that from
any well, I haven't watched a lot of your your podcasts,
to be honest, but or listened to a lot of
your podcasts. But I'm going to have to start listening
now because that twitchy movement that I described that you've
just described that that, yeah, that's exactly what it is.
It's almost like twitching in and out of reality like
a thousand times a second, and it's it's there, but
it's not quite there. And it's moving so fast, and
like it when it leaped towards the window, it just
it's like it disappeared. It was so fast. I mean
it covered that ten to twelve feet in it just
a nanosecond. And and and the ball a light appeared
about halfway through its journey from the edge of the
bed to the window, but halfway just it justook down
into a little blue ball the size of a golf
ball and zoom straight out the window. Crazy crazy, super speed,
super super speed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to wrap your mind around all these
things they can do. It just seemed to be impossible.
And you're talking about how quick and how fast that
thing was. It brings to mind an experience that any
witness shared with me years ago. This was probably five
six years ago. This guy had some credentials, he had
a lot of experience in the military, I think even
special forces. Well, one night, he lives way out I
think in the mountains. Well, one night he heard some
noise out at his dog kennel, and at first I
think he brushed it off, but then he got the
impression there might be something going on out there. So
he put his shorts on, I guess, and his shoes,
and he grabbed a gun and a flashlight and headed
out there behind his house. And without turning on his flashlight,
there was enough moonlight out I think, he said, where
he was able to look over towards the kennels, and
he noticed a huge black figure standing on his side
of the kennels, staring at the dogs in the kennels.
The dogs were going crazy, running back and forth and everything,
and this thing was tall enough where it was like
it's towering over the kennels. I can't remember how Tally said.
This thing was I think probably about eight feetish or so,
maybe taller, maybe a little shorter, But anyway, he couldn't
tell what it was understandably, so he was just seeing
like a silhouette. So he decided to try and creep
up on it. So using all the skills that he
had amassed over the years. He started to working his
way towards it, and it still added back towards him. Well,
once he got within a certain range, I think pretty close.
I think he was probably maybe seven eight feet from it,
directly behind it. All of a sudden, without him making
any noise. He said, he was dead silent. All of
a sudden, without any indications, this thing pivoted. It's not
the right word. It spun around in place so fast
that he couldn't even see it turn. He said that
at that range, I think you could see the pointed
ears on top of its head kind of angled down
because it was looking down at the kennels. And the
next thing you knew, it spun around so quick that
its back became its front, its front became its back.
It's facing him. It's just right there, steering him down.
When they do things like that, it sure it does
make you wonder how in the world something so big
can move that fast, can be so agile. It's just
really hard to wrap your head around.
Speaker 1: Well, this is just like when I jumped behind my mom.
I mean, it was just standing at the edge of
the bed in one second, and then instantly it's behind
my mother back to back that movement, it's not visible.
I don't remember seeing it actually jump behind my mom.
It's just suddenly just behind my mom. But another thing
that's interesting, You said that creature was standing there watching
the dogs, just observing them, just staring at them. Well,
that's exactly what this thing was doing to me, who
was just standing there observing me. Yeah, it's the same
sort of situation where it's just observing. It doesn't seem
to be threatening, and just watching the barking dogs, or
just watching the kids sleep in his bed. Just it's
just observing peacefully, and then when somebody's intruding into its space,
it just it just does these weird, quick jerky movements
and well just jumps away, just gets away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to be a reason why I did
what it did that night, Tea. Their thoughts are their own.
You just can't think for them, so only they know
why they do the things they do. You said that
it smiled at you. With that in mind, how would
you describe its teeth.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they were much different than a
normal dog's teeth, to be honest. The insize was the
canine in sizers they come down are very long. I mean,
I mean, this was a big head and these are
big teeth, and they protrude it out out of the mouth.
Even when the mouth was shut, the fangs were still
sticking out, so the fangs were there, so they're very large.
But as far as there is, one report that I
heard said that it were really pointy teeth, really sharp
pointed teeth. The only really evident teeth that were evident
that I could see was these two big canines sticking
out the front. The rest just looked like normal dog's teeth.
I didn't see anything particularly strange about them.
Speaker 2: Well, well that's interesting. Did you ever see it drool?
Speaker 1: No, it did not drool, and it didn't close its
mouth the entire time. Its mouth was always open. It
was a mouth breather. It was breathing through its mouth.
That's wh where the raspy sound was coming from. So
this was a mouth breather with its mouth partially open
and never opened its mouth further than that. And it
never closed its mouth through the whole time that it
was there. It just had its mouth partially open, maybe
like one inch open, breathing through its mouth.
Speaker 2: A lot of dog men ow witnesses report that the
teeth and the dog man's mouth that they saw seemed
to be too big to allow it to close its mouth.
Do you think that might be why this one that
you saw, whatever it was, didn't close its mouth.
Speaker 1: It could be it could be because it didn't close
its mouth. Yeah, absolutely, why not? I mean I wasn't
really staring at its teeth, but I was, you know,
eye contact was a big thing, trying to keep eye
contact with this thing, and looking at that ear with
that badging it. I kept looking at that ear, and
then I kept looking at its torso because it was
just rippling with muscles. And so this is my focus
was eyes and ears and torsos. That's where I was
my attention was drawn to. I wasn't really looking at
its mouth so much, but it definitely gaping, not gaping,
just an open mouth, maybe one inch open. And I
never stuck its tongue out, and it never panted. There
was no panting like a dog would pant. It was
just raspy. This type of breathing really strange.
Speaker 2: Wow, that isn't creepy if it had its mouth open
the whole time, did you notice anything unusual about its tongue?
Speaker 1: I didn't see its tongue. I never saw its tongue.
I was looking up and I don't remember seeing its
tongue at all, not at all.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's all right. I mean, like I said, you
have so much going through your head that you're doing
good to know what year it was. So that's totally understandable.
How would you describe the lighting conditions in the room bright?
Speaker 1: So the window that it exited through was quite a
large window at the end of my bed, and it
didn't have blinds or curtains on it. It was just
like a big open window, and the backyard was illuminated.
The whole back area behind these houses was like a
big military compound and it was all illuminated, so the
lights would just come straight in through to the window.
So the ambient light was good enough that I could
see color, because I could tell the color of the
badge in its ear, the blue badge. So if most
people see in grayscale in the dark, and if you
can see any sort of color, then your ambient light
must be high enough for your optics to pick up
the color there with the rods and the cones in
your eyes. So if you're seeing color, there's enough light,
and there's definitely I could definitely see the brown on
my wall, and I could see the blue in its ear,
and so the lighting was very good. Actually, sure does
make you wonder.
Speaker 2: On one hand, if the room would have been dark,
you wouldn't have gotten as good of a look. Sometimes
not being able to see something like that very well
makes it that much more intense, that much more frightening.
But what's your take on that? Do you think it
was definitely a good thing to see this thing so well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's probably better to know what you're
dealing with rather than some shadow of some spook in
the closet this thing. Another thing about the color was
the color of its fur is quite interesting. Is that
grayish blue color that you get on a blue hiller dog,
you know, an Australian cattle dog. It was that color
sort of like almost give me the impression that it's
an old man like an old like blue hair with
black streaks in it, almost elderly colored hair, if that
makes any sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense. It might have had some
age to it.
Speaker 1: You never know. It wasn't shaggy hair either, It wasn't unkempt.
It was. I mean, I would almost say groomed. I
would almost say that the fur was groomed. It wasn't shaggy,
it wasn't ruffled up. I mean, maybe groomed is not
the right term either, but it definitely wasn't shaggy. I
would almost say this is a groomed old man. I
would say this is a groomed or just by the
color of his hair, it seemed muscular like a young man,
but the color of an old man, and groomed like
an older man would take care of himself. I don't know.
This is kind of the impressions that I have thinking
back to what I saw that night.
Speaker 2: Well, I still think you should be commended for all
the details you noticed. Most people would have noticed half
as many things as he did, so that's impressive. He
said that it didn't have glowing amber eyes or red
eye You said its eyes were cold black. Did its
pupils feil its whole eye socket or could you see
a little bit of white on either side?
Speaker 1: There was absolutely no white in his eyes. His eyes
were black pits. They were just completely solid black. There
was no pupil, there was no white, There were just
black pits.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's pretty intimidating. There are elements to
that thing that you saw, Jay that tell me that
it just might have been a dog man. There are
elements that make me think it must have been something else,
i e. A werewolf. A lot of dogmen eyewitnesses when
you look at the big picture, not many eyewitnesses or
port seeing this, But I've spoken with thousands upon thousands
of dogmen eyewitnesses over the years. So as a result,
I have talked to my fear share of eyewitnesses who
have witnessed seeing orbs either before the dog man showed
up or after the dog man showed up, but never
or have they reported to me seeing a dog man
turn into an orb or transform from an orb into
the form of a dog man. But there definitely does
seem to be a connection there. So maybe what you
saw actually was a dog man, I don't know. But
the pants, the fact this thing had pants on, that
makes me think it must have been something other than
a dog man, possibly if were wolves do exist, possibly
a were wolf. And then also on top of that,
further muddy the waters, what about that badge in it's here?
So there are elements to this whole thing that. I'm
not really sure what to think about it.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a report where a werewolf
or a dog man is wearing clothing? Have you ever
heard of any report like that?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I've heard about people seeing things that are
that shape that have pants on or shorts on. But
I don't know if that means it was a were
wolf not a dog man. I don't know what to
think of that, because dog men look the way they
do twenty four seven three sixty five. But that's not
to say there aren't other things out there that do
have the ability to transform somehow from the form of
a human to that of a werewolve. So I don't know.
I really don't know what to think about that.
Speaker 1: Well, when I tell a story to the few people
I have told it to, most people are willing to
accept the orbit part of it, but they are absolutely
incredulous at the fact that this thing was wearing pants.
That's the thing that really like people say, ah, that's nonsense,
is wearing pants. But they can easily accept this thing
turning into a blue orb and bouncing out my window.
I mean, I don't understand, well, that makes two of us.
Speaker 2: There's so many things when it comes to dog me
in the encounters and encounters like yours, there might be
something other than a dog men.
Speaker 1: We don't know what it was.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's so many things that we just don't
know about, all these things that just adds to the mystery,
it really does. It seems like you're okay now present day.
But does that mean that you can head into the
jungle there in Kenya if you have any jungle around
near where you're at right now without any issues, or
do you still have trouble going out at night? Do
you still look over your shoulder?
Speaker 1: In other words, No, I'm pretty confident these days. I
don't have any issues. I do live next to a
tropical rainforest, and I hike up in there pretty regularly actually,
and it's called the Cacamega Rainforest. So I hike up
in there, and I travel all around East Africa. I
was in Rwanda a bit ago, and I spent a
lot of time in Uganda, and I get out into
some pretty remote places and I don't have any fear.
I don't have any fear. The only thing here that
really is dangerous is the actual the known wildlife. You know, hippos, crocodiles.
They're the real fear here. But as far as anything
supernatural like a dog mat or a werewolf or a
nandy bear, I don't have any fear. No, nothing like
that in Kenya.
Speaker 2: Well that's great, as long as you can say that.
That's a great thing. Now that you're as old and
wise as you are. I know there are kids listening
to the show tonight who have had their own encounters
with dog men coming into their bedrooms. What kind of
advice would you give those kids? Keeping in mind that
some of those kids haven't told their parents about their
experiences with dog men, I've kept the experiences to themselves
for obvious reasons. Given all of your wisdom, what would
you say to a kid like that who's listening to
tonight's show in the way of advice.
Speaker 1: I think I would try to engage it rather than
do what I did, which was just basically wet my
pants and hide in the corner and cower like a little,
you know, a little scaredy cat. I think I would
try to engage, because you have nothing to lose by
talking to it, or trying to speak to it, or
see if there's any way to engage with it. I
wouldn't be scared, because there's no point you're going to
waste years of your life being scared of the dark.
When if you have seen a dog man and it
hasn't attacked you, it hasn't hurt you, it hasn't shown
in the aggression towards you, why do you think it's
going to do it if you try to engage it,
If you say, hey, what are you doing over there,
and try to engage this creature. If it hasn't hurt
you already, why do you think it's going to hurt
you in the future, And why should you be scared
and spend the future years of your life and eternal fear. Basically, so, no,
my advice is engaged, try to talk to it, try
to see what it's up to, and of course, if
it is dangerous. If it does do something dangerous, well
that's a different story. But very few encounters that I've
seen so far on your podcasts are actually dangerous encounters.
Most of them are just visuals.
Speaker 2: You're right, that's how it normally goes. After speaking with
thousands upon thousands of dogmen eyewitnesses, a grand total of
credible eyewitnesses, I've ever spoken with or wherever intentionally harmed
by a dogman. The encountered seventy eight maybe nine. So
that says everything right there, it really does. You're gonna
be surprised to hear this, but yeah, there have been
a number of people who have contacted me here recently
to let me know about an experience they had with
a dog man coming into their bedroom. Not looking out
the bedroom window and seeing it out there, but actually
contacting me to tell me about an encounter they had
inside their bedrooms. So yeah, it's far from being a
case of just you having to deal with the trauma of.
Speaker 1: That over the years.
Speaker 2: It's not just you bought a long shot. But having
said that, do you have any clothes in comments you'd
like to share before we get out of here.
Speaker 1: No, I'm I'm glad I got that off my chest,
and I guess telling the world now, there's probably only
about twenty twenty five people in the entire planet that
even know had this encounter, So yeah, it's interesting. I
would keep an open mind, keep looking in the shadows,
see what you can see out there, and I wouldn't
be scared of things that go bump in the night.
I think try to embrace it and don't bring the
fear inside. I think that's my advice.
Speaker 2: Well, that's really good advice, it really is. Jack. I
can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing the
details of this experience with us. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Vic.
Speaker 2: Well, you know you're welcome, glad to give you a platform.
Thanks again so much for your time, and have a
great night.