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Speaker 1: At a book in.

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Speaker 2: Tonight's guest is Jay. Jay. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, Vick, thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate your time. Jay.

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Please give us a brief bio on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was born in nineteen seventy four to a

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military family, and I spent the early years traveling around

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the world with my dad in the Air Force and

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ended up on the prairies of Canada. And I was

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raised on the prairies. I went to high school there,

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university there, and studied economics. I have a degree in

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economics and I've used that well around the world. Actually,

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I kept on traveling and I've used that degree around

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the world, mostly in banking and finance. And I currently

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reside in East Africa, close to Nairobi, the capital of Kenya.

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And yeah, so that's basically that's who I am.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting way to grow up. When you

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were growing up as a kid on the military basis,

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were there a lot of other kids to play with

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or we kind of isolated.

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Speaker 1: No, we had a kindergarten and a high school or

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a grade school. In high school just down the street

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from us. We probably had. You know, it's not a

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large military base, but there was probably I don't know,

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four or five thousand people that lived on that base,

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and you know, most of them had their families with them,

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so there was quite a hive of activity. I guess

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you could say a lot of kids, a lot of families,

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and there's park spaces, and yeah, we didn't do too

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bad living on the military base, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Well that's great. Sounds like a good way to grow

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up considering what your dad did. Did you have a

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lot more freedom than most kids, or were things more

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structured and strict for you? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I grew up as a freebird. So DoD being in

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the Air Force, he was a firefighter, so we ended up,

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you know, riding around in fire trucks and going out

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and seeing the airplanes on the runways. And just outside

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the military base was all the farmers fields. So we

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used to get our twenty twos and we used to

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go out there and shoot gophers all day long. And yeah,

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we lived the free, the free lifestyle back then. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way to grow up. That's how

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it was when I was growing up. You just go

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out and as long as you're home by the time

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the street lights come on. You're golden. But your parents

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didn't know where you were. And I just loved all

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that freedom. That's the way to do it, it really is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the first mother that would yell supper, so then

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you knew it was time to come home. Whoever's house

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you were closest to mom, some mom would yell supper

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and all the kids would have to run home at

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that time. So, yeah, those were the good times.

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Speaker 2: That they were. Yeah, they definitely were. Did you have

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a lot of trouble getting off of the base level?

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You talked about heading out to the land surrounding the

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bases with your twenty two's. I didn't think it was

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all that easy for kids to come and go from

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military bases, was it.

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Speaker 1: Well, so back in the eighties when I lived on

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that base, we had a side entrance was for the

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civilian side, so the civilians would come into the sort

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of the backside of the gate where the you know,

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the housewives and the kids would all be. Well, the

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men were all working on the military base, so we

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had a back gate and that gate wasn't closed during

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the day, and in fact, there was no guard on

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that gate either you could just come and go as

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you please. It was only after about I don't know,

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say eight o'clock at night when they would actually close

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the gate, and then I would become a gated community,

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and then the guards would start patrolling and the military

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police would be out that sort of thing. But during

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the day, our little part of the military base was

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almost like a small little village. You know. There were

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shops and there was a bakery there. There was a

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Canex duty free store, like I say, the schools were

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there at the parks, and so it was almost like

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a little village within a military base.

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Speaker 2: Well not bad, sounds like you had a really good arrangement.

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Speaker 1: How big was that base though, Well, so it was

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set up as a cold war base, I believe it

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come about in the nineteen sixties, and it was used

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as a radar base, and they got an underground nuclear

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bunker there, and they had multiple runways and it was

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actually a fighter wing was attached there a fight It

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was part of some sort of air wing where they

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trained pilots and they had freighter planes and cargo planes

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and all these little T thirty three things or whatever,

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those little trainer jets they had there, and lots of helicopters.

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Lots of helicopters there, and so that wasn't a huge base,

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but like I say, three or four thousand people probably

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lived on that base, and for me being a small child,

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it was a pretty big place, pretty exciting place. Actually, Yeah,

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sure it sounds like it. Like I said, it sounds

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like it was a.

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Speaker 2: Great place to grow up. How many people have you

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shared your experience with? I have.

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Speaker 1: Since Okay, when the experience happened, I was only close

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family members that knew about it. I kept it very

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tight because I was traumatized by it and I didn't

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think people would believe me. And even when I spoke

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to a psychiatrist later on, he didn't even believe me.

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So I just basically kept it under wraps. And it

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wasn't until I started dating a European girl and I

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explained to her what happened. I trust her enough that

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I told her, and she didn't laugh at the idea,

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and she didn't put me down about the idea, and

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I realized that maybe there are people that can take

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a story like this without subject acting me to ridicule.

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So then, as you know, as my friend's circle expanded

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through time. I've probably told you know, I don't know,

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call it two dozen people that know about this story. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to jump to conclusions. But when you

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told her about your experience and she didn't laugh at you,

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she seemed to be receptive to it, was that the

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start of your recovery from that encounter?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, again, this goes back into the university years. So

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this is where I decided that I wasn't going to

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be afraid of the encounter anymore. I wasn't going to

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be afraid of this beast, and I would start opening

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up and sharing the story a little bit more with people,

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and I wasn't going to live in fear of this beast.

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And if people weren't going to, uh, well, even if

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they were going to laugh at me, even if they

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were going to have some ridicule, well, then so be it,

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you know, And I'm just not gonna I'm not going

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to live with this the trauma of having that in

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my heart and in my head and being scared of

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the pump and the night sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you took that mindset. So many

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eyewitnesses live as if they're in a prison with no walls,

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they can't tell anyone for fear of how it's going

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to be received. So to hear that you actually did

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start sharing it, that's great, That's really good. Do you

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wear your encounter like a badge of honor or see

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it as a curse?

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Speaker 1: I probably see it both ways. It made me who

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I am in the sense that I grew a lot

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of courage out of it, and I got the courage

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to travel the world, to step out of the box

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and not be afraid of what's out there. I guess

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to be afraid of society, to be afraid of the world.

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That overcoming of fear had to happen first through the wolf,

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and I had to lose fear of the wolf and

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then step outside into the real world. And so that

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is a blessing. But for that first ten years after

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the encounter, it was a curse. It was trauma. It

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was deep, deep, dark, morbid, nightmare, traumatizing horror. Basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I can understand why, considering what happened, But

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I'm just glad that you were able to come to

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terms with it. Finally over the years as the years

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went by, rank goodness for that. If you've had a

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Dogman encounter, I would like to speak with me about it,

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whether I'm private or on the show. Please go to

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Dogmanencounters dot com and submit a report. If you've had

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a bigfoot sighting and we'd like to be a guest

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on one of my two bigfoot shows, please go to

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my Bigfoot Sighting dot com. All right, Jay, please tell

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us about your encounter. Now give us everal last detail

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that comes to mind.

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Speaker 1: Well, this incident happened in either nineteen eighty three or

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nineteen eighty four, and I was a child living on

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a military base. The base was called CFB Penhold. It's

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located next to Red Dar, Alberta. It was a air

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base with a big I guess it was a big

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radar station to keep out the Soviets, and they had

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a big nuclear underground bunker to protect all the politicians

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in case we were ever attacked. And they had an

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air wing there where they trained fighter pilots and you know,

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lots of cargo planes and helicopters. And my father was

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attached there's a as a firefighter on the airside crash rescue.

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And we lived in a part of the base called

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the PMQ's the private married quarters. So this is kind

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of like a civilian area of the base where all

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of these soldiers could live with their families and their wives.

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There was a kindergarten, a school, and a little store

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called Canucks, and for the most part, all the civilians

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were kept on that side of the base. That access

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to that side of the base was open. During the day,

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you could walk in and out through a gate. You

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could leave the base anytime you wanted. Our house was

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only probably about two hundred meters of the one of

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the gates to get in and out. But at night,

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that part of the base would be what you call

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now would be a closed gated community. They'd lock the

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gates and everything be locked down for the night, and

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if you wanted to actually enter that area, you'd have

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to go all the way through the main guard booth

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in front of the military base and drive all the

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way through the base to get to the PMQ area.

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The reason why I'm talking about this is because if

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you walk outside that gate, there is nothing out there.

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There's just farmers fields. There's no forest, there's no rivers

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or anything. It's just desolate prairie. So this incident happened

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pretty much in a village setting, if you can imagine

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a PMQ's on a military base surrounded by farmers fields

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in a very village like setting. The house that we

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lived in was a military sort of bungalow, two stories,

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very small. The upstairs had two bedrooms, downstairs had one

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small little kitchen, Like I said, single bathroom. And these

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are just like little row house bungalows that all the

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soldiers lived on. They're probably built back in the nineteen

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fifties nineteen sixties, little tiny cardboard houses. Basically, I'm I'm

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emotional discussing this because it brings back a lot of memories.

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But that little house three hundred meters from that gate,

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out in the middle of the Bald Prairies. One night

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I was sleeping and something had woken me up, and

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I woke up facing the wall. I was looking at

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the wall. I don't know what woke me up. I

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can still remember the wallpaper had these brown squares, and

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I'm staring at those little brown squares, wide awake, and

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I hear something outside my bedroom door, and the first

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thing I thought was maybe my mother's in the kitchen.

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I had no reason to be scared. I'd never experienced

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any fear from anything or anybody, you know, just a

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small kid. And then the latch of my door popped open, click,

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and the door swam open, and I was kind of frozen.

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I was just staring up my walk, kind of frozen,

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and then I heard it. It had a very very deep,

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raspy breath, and it walked into my room and it

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walked over to the edge of my bed. Now I

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hadn't rolled over yet. I was sort of petrified. I

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was sort of fearful looking at the wall, and this

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thing was getting louder and closer and walked up to

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the edge of my bed and then it leaned over

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me and it stuck its muzzle into my neck, and

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I could feel its breath on the back of my neck,

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and I could smell its breath. I could hear it

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breathing in my ear from two inches away, and I

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freaked out. I sat up, I jerked up into the

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bed and threw myself into the corner, my back up

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against the wall, my knees around my chest, my arms

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around my knees. I was literally cornered. I was cornered

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in my own bed and this creature three feet away

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from me. I was just rising up from where I'd

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just been leaning over sniffing me. Was just rising up

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to its full posture. This thing was huge. My dad

239
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,480
was a six foot two firefighter. My dad was a

240
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,159
big man. But this thing, this thing was on a

241
00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:25,919
different level. This thing was huge. It had It had

242
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a dog's head, I would say a German shepherd's head.

243
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,279
The color of its fur was was that of a

244
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,519
blue healer dog, to be honest, that modeled gray black

245
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:49,360
sort of look. It stood there huge, must have been

246
00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:51,600
about seven feet tall. The roof of the building. The

247
00:15:51,679 --> 00:15:53,759
ceiling of the building is eight feet. Its head did

248
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,000
not touch the ceiling, so I estimated it probably be

249
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:01,080
about seven feet tall. And it was huge. It was wide,

250
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:09,960
it was broad. It was enormously huge. It rippled with muscles.

251
00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:13,279
The hair that come down off of its neck, the

252
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,600
dog's head, it was normal like how you envision any

253
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:18,320
German shepherd dog. The hair came down onto its neck,

254
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:25,279
onto its shoulders, very hairy, not shaggy, but harry shoulders,

255
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,360
the upper chest, the upper part of its body, spicepped

256
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,519
area were all very hairy. And as it went down

257
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:37,360
lower onto the body, lower onto the torso there was

258
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,679
less and less hair to the point where you got

259
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,879
to its abs, let's say, and there was very little hair.

260
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,399
You can clearly see the skin. You could clearly see

261
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:48,799
that the muscles just rippling under well what little fuzzin

262
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,200
further was left on its skin. In its right ear,

263
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,080
it had a blue badge about the size of a

264
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,159
silver dollar. This is the type blue badge that I

265
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,759
would say, you could say like Democrat or whatever. And

266
00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:07,119
they have these little pins that they put on their

267
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,480
lapels or onto their shirts. It's like one of those

268
00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:11,319
type of pins. And it was baby blue, and it

269
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:16,000
was just stuck in its ear. The other ear was

270
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,440
missing the tip. The tip of its ear was actually

271
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:22,839
ripped off. It was jagged. It looked like an old wound.

272
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,319
It wasn't bleeding or sore or anything. It just wasn't there.

273
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,400
It ripped off. So one blue pin in one ear,

274
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,240
one ripped off tip. Its four arms were incredibly long.

275
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:40,240
It had really really long arms from its elbow down

276
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:44,119
to its hands. And it had hands. It was really long,

277
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:49,559
like it's disproportionately long forearm, and its hands had and

278
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,920
five fingers had fingernails. There were really long fingernails. These

279
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,200
black fingernails that were about an inch and a half long,

280
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,599
sticking out all the ends of its fingers, really long

281
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:10,319
fingernails like claws. Almost this next part, how it all

282
00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:16,160
gets pretty strange from here from the waist down now.

283
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,519
Its waist was very narrow. It had a very narrow waist,

284
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,960
almost disproportionately narrow to the to the broadness of its chest.

285
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,519
It was wearing. It was wearing blue jeans, but cut

286
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,079
off blue jeans like shorts, like blue jeans shorts, and

287
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,319
they were cut off above the knee. There was no belt,

288
00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:39,920
and the and the and the jeans themselves were torn

289
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,559
and ragged, and they were like old jeans that someone

290
00:18:42,599 --> 00:18:45,559
had just thrown on. But he's wearing pants at least

291
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:49,640
down to the knees. I couldn't see beyond his knees

292
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:56,920
because the bed was in the way. The well, it's

293
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:04,119
really strange. I tried to scream. I tried to scream.

294
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,359
My mouth was agape. I was trying my best, and

295
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,160
I couldn't get any sound out. I couldn't make any sounds.

296
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,720
I couldn't. It was just petrified in fear. I was

297
00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:21,559
comatose with fear. I was it started to pace somehow

298
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:24,160
could see that. I was trying to scream my fear

299
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,359
of might I don't know. It sent something and it

300
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,319
started to pace. It started to move up and down

301
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:31,759
from the end of the bed to the pillow. I

302
00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:33,319
mean for it. It was only like one or two steps.

303
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,720
It would stepped down to the end of the bed,

304
00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:36,559
it would step back to the pillow. It stepped the

305
00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:39,319
ind of the bed again, did this three or four times.

306
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:41,880
All the while it was looking at me. It never

307
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,279
turned its head. Its head was always his eyes were

308
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:48,960
locked onto me. Its eyes. Its eyes were black. I've

309
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,359
heard stories about amber eyes and golden eyes. This thing

310
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,960
had black eyes, like black pits. Anyways, moved back and

311
00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:02,079
forth along the bed. Finally, finally I got my scream out.

312
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,839
It seemed like eternity. It seemed like I was sitting

313
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,920
there for hours, but I know this is only literally

314
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,000
a few seconds. And I finally screamed. I screamed at

315
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:11,039
the top of my lums. I screamed up primal scream.

316
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:16,880
I screamed them my mother. I could hear her coming

317
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,960
down the stairs, and she's jumping two three stairs at

318
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,000
a time, and she ran into to get to me,

319
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:25,720
to get to her young son. She busts through the

320
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:29,960
bedroom door and she flies in, and the wolf steps

321
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,160
behind my mom. It literally steps behind her, back to back.

322
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,960
It's right behind my mom. And I can't formulate words,

323
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,480
I can't formulate thoughts. I'm pointing, and I'm saying, they're they're,

324
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,920
they're they're there there there there there. That's all I

325
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,400
could say was the word there. And of course I'm

326
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,559
pointing at my mom because it's standing behind my mom,

327
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,400
and my mom switches to the left and listening, moves

328
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,680
to the left, and my mom goes to the right

329
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,559
and then moves to the right, and it goes back

330
00:20:57,559 --> 00:20:59,240
and forth. It like a dance. It's like a dance

331
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:01,920
with these mom standing back to back with this wolf

332
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,799
who's towering or the top of her. My mother takes

333
00:21:07,839 --> 00:21:11,599
a step towards the light switch and she goes to

334
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:17,599
flick it on, and this wolf looks at me and

335
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:23,559
it smiles. It actually smiles. I don't it wasn't a

336
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,160
snarl of I don't not explain it other than this

337
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:31,799
thing just literally smiled at me, this deep, knowing, dark smile.

338
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:37,759
And this is where it gets really, really really strange.

339
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,559
Split second before my mother clicked on that light switch.

340
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:49,960
This wolf jumped to my window. It jumped at enormous speed.

341
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,960
It was incredible speed. It just leaped towards my closed

342
00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,000
bedroom window. As it's flying towards the window, it turns

343
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,839
turns into this is crazy. It turns into a blue

344
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,359
ball of light the size of a golf ball. This pale,

345
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:10,920
shimmering blue ball of light that's moving at such a

346
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:12,880
rapid speed that it actually looks like it has a

347
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,799
tail on it. It looks like there's a tail hanging

348
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:17,799
out behind this blue ball. It's moving so fast. The

349
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:19,640
blue ball gets to the window and just as it

350
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,319
goes through the window, being the lights come on and

351
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:31,599
it's gone. It's gone. Now I am an absolute nervous wreck.

352
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,799
I'm a puddle of mess. My brain cells are banging

353
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:38,759
around on the inside of my skull, turning into mush.

354
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:48,400
I'm I'm almost like zombiefide. Really, I don't recover well

355
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,279
from this. Takes me quite a few years. But because

356
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,839
my father was in the military and we were in Canada,

357
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,359
we had access to medical care. So I actually had

358
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,240
to go and see a chiatrist is not a psychologist,

359
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:06,039
but a psychiatrist, and he ended up putting me on

360
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,319
sleeping pills because sleep was out of the question for me.

361
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,480
I spent months without sleep. I would just I'd have

362
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:14,400
that at that sleep disorder where you would just fall

363
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,559
asleep at the kitchen table, or he'd fall asleep standing

364
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,920
up because I wasn't sleeping during the evenings. So anyways,

365
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,640
the psychiatrist, he gives me this sleeping pills, and he

366
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:27,559
also prescribes this tea. I remember this tea. He gave

367
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:30,400
me something called Camra mile tea. Got that tasted like horrible,

368
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:32,680
horrible juice man, and it was I had to drink

369
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,799
this camera male tea and take a sleeping pill so

370
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,839
that I would be able to get some sleep, at

371
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,839
least well chemically induced sleep, but sleep nonetheless. And I

372
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,880
went on for years like that and fighting these nightmares

373
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:54,440
and fighting these this fear of the fear of the unknown. Eventually,

374
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,000
you know, I went to a university, and that's probably mean,

375
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:00,640
you know, when I was a young adult, and at

376
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,599
that point I was also six foot two and two

377
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,400
hundred pounds of muscle. I figured the only way to

378
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,160
get out of this fear for the last ten years

379
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,440
of my life was to challenge it. Ask it to

380
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:17,000
come back to. I don't know. I don't know how

381
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,319
I could challenge it, but I wanted to do something

382
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,960
about it. I wanted to come back. I wanted to

383
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,640
see him. I wanted to fight him, challenge him, talk

384
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,799
to him or I don't know what it was. I

385
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,640
just I needed to get resolution on the matter. But

386
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,559
it never came back. And I mean that was thirty

387
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,160
years ago when I was in university. So I decided

388
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,119
to leave after my university years, I decided to leave Alberta.

389
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,960
I wanted to leave all the nightmares behind and all

390
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,519
the trauma all that had happened that night. And I

391
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:48,559
mean it really, it really affected me. I mean it

392
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,960
was it was primal fear. It was it was the

393
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,039
monster under the bed moment. You know when the monster

394
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,440
comes out to finally get you. That was the moment.

395
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:03,240
And yeah, so I left Alberta. I left Canada, to

396
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:07,480
be honest, and I ended up migrating halfway around the

397
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,000
world to get away from that. Still halfway around the world.

398
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:14,160
But yeah, so that is basically my story.

399
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: You said that you were lying in bed when that

400
00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:20,559
dog me and Slash Werewolf came into your bedroom. What

401
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,319
kind of long lasting effects have you suffered through to

402
00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:25,000
present day as a result of that.

403
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when you're when you're raised in such

404
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,680
a safe and secure environment all your life and you

405
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,319
know monsters don't exist. I mean, there was there was

406
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,839
no horror movies in my life. My mom would never

407
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,039
let me watch things like that on television, So so

408
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:44,279
what come out of the would work that night? I

409
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,039
mean that was just the mind numbing bottom of the

410
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,440
pit depths of hell sort of sort of encounter, and

411
00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:01,519
it affected me in ways that you know, you don't

412
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:04,000
trust people even you can't trust people because you can't

413
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,839
tell them what you think. You can't open up. Yeah,

414
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,480
and you sort of live with that fear that you

415
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,400
know what you saw, but if you tell people what

416
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,839
you saw, they're not going to believe you. There's absolutely

417
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,000
no chance they're ever going to believe you, and then

418
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,599
you're just going to be branded with some sort of

419
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,480
weird label. And so you have to sort of hide

420
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:28,200
your feelings. And as I progress to the years, as

421
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,160
you meet you know, more open minded and like minded people.

422
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,400
My story probably is known by fifteen or twenty people

423
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,559
out there, whether they believe me or not, but at

424
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,519
least they have an ear to talk to, a shoulder

425
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:41,400
to cry on sort of thing. But yeah, it was.

426
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:43,880
It was long lasting. The trauma was long lasting for sure.

427
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,039
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it was, and I can understand why.

428
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:52,559
At first, every indication is that what you encountered that

429
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,759
night was a werewolf up until the point where it

430
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,440
transformed into that blue ball and flew towards the window.

431
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,200
How much more difficult do you think this experience has

432
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:07,720
been for you, considering all the factors surround it, having

433
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,319
pants on and it transforming into that blue ball. How

434
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,640
much more difficult do you think those factors make this

435
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:17,279
experience than if you would have seemingly just had a

436
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,000
bonafide dog meaning encounter.

437
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,279
Speaker 1: Well, I had never heard the term dog matt until recently,

438
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:28,599
probably from your channel. To be honest, I've always considered

439
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,599
it to be a were wolf. And I don't know

440
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:34,319
where this came from, but a picture had popped up

441
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,599
one day on one of my feeds somewhere, and it

442
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,359
was a picture of a were wolf, and it was

443
00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:40,960
the picture of exactly the creature I saw. I don't

444
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,359
know where this picture come from. I don't know if

445
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,319
it was artificially generated or someone's drawing or trail cam.

446
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:47,319
I don't know what it was, but it was a

447
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,279
picture and it was pretty much what I saw that night,

448
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:53,319
and that got my interest rekindled after all these years.

449
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,480
And I'm staring there looking at my werewolf, and I'm like, oh,

450
00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:59,240
they're calling it a dog man, and I googled the

451
00:27:59,319 --> 00:28:02,000
term dog matt, and of course your podcast popped up,

452
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,960
and this is actually the first time I've ever heard

453
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:06,640
dog man. So I don't know what the difference would

454
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,480
be between the two creatures. This thing was, well, it

455
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:13,079
was a man with a wolve's head, let's put it

456
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,559
that way, a man of the dog's head, but not

457
00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,799
a man. I mean, this thing was so huge, you

458
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:22,079
we say, so well built. I mean there's I've never

459
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,200
met a human being in my life that has a

460
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:26,960
chest that size. I mean, there's just no there's no

461
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,720
human that is physically that big. And even the dog's

462
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:34,400
head was proportionally was bigger than any dog I'd ever

463
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,759
seen in my life either. So what's the difference between

464
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:38,559
a dog man and a warble? I really don't know.

465
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,279
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people don't know the answer to

466
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,400
that question. The answer is dogmen look the way they

467
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,079
do twenty four seven three sixty five. But a weir

468
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,039
wolf has the ability to transform from a person to

469
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,400
that of the beast, the beast that looks like a

470
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,279
were wolf or a dog man basically, But considering the

471
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:02,119
fact that what you saw it transformed into that blue ball,

472
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,839
I have no idea what that was. I'm just so

473
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,680
sorry you had to experience that. That's horrible. I'm wondering

474
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:11,519
though you described it as looking like a big man

475
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:14,799
with a dog's head or a wolf's head, does that

476
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,880
mean that its leg structure was hominid or did it

477
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:22,440
have hawks and stifled joints instead of ankles and knee joints.

478
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't see below its knees. The upper legs

479
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,240
were obviously in a pair of jeans. I don't think

480
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:34,920
out of tail, because how would you put a tail

481
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,160
inside a pair of blue jeans? So I don't think

482
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,559
it out of tail, So I definitely think it's homeind

483
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,640
from the bottom down, the upper thighs were big. I mean,

484
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,039
I mean proportionally as strong as what his chest would

485
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:53,759
be like. He had big legs, But were they bent

486
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,000
backwards or they hawks?

487
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:55,119
Speaker 2: No?

488
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,319
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. I definitely didn't see that this

489
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:01,640
was a man, a huge man with the dog's head

490
00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:03,599
and below the knees. I couldn't tell you.

491
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:08,079
Speaker 2: Well. Also, I mean, you're such shock. You're doing good

492
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:09,960
to know what your name was at the time. So

493
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:12,839
the fact that you noticed the jeans and the way

494
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,839
its thighs looked and all that, that's impressive. That's really impressive.

495
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:21,400
Did your parents seem to believe you when you told

496
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,519
them about what had happened?

497
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:26,799
Speaker 1: My mother said she smelt something in the room. So

498
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,119
I've talked to her, you know, many times since, and

499
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,440
she said when she entered the room, she said she

500
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,400
could feel a presence. But I mean that could have

501
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,200
been just me with my emotional energy. She's feeling scared

502
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,039
because I'm scared. But she confided in me that she

503
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
smelt the smell of meat in the room, and that's

504
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,880
the smell of its breath. When it leaned over me

505
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,799
and it breathed into my face, I could smell meat,

506
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,759
not rotten meat, but not fresh meat either. Just you

507
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:54,079
know how meat smells, that's what does breath smelled like.

508
00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:58,480
And my mom confided in me many years later, she said, yeah,

509
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,240
she said I could smell meat in that So.

510
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they do have some strange smells, rotting meat

511
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,680
and sulfur. Sometimes other smells as well, urine feces. It's

512
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:14,599
really hard to know for sure what you're going to

513
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,799
expect to smell. You said your mother, Well, I'm sorry.

514
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,359
Speaker 1: I was just going to mention the blue badge in

515
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,680
its ear. I mean, I've never heard of anybody indicating

516
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,559
whether a dog maunt of Wellbell has markings Harry's badges

517
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:31,400
on their bodies. I just don't have any idea what

518
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:32,039
that could be.

519
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Well, you're not alone in noticing that. Episode two fifty

520
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,319
seven had a guest come on named Roy. He talked

521
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:42,319
about seeing a big black dog Meum, that had something

522
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,640
in its ear. He didn't know for sure what it was.

523
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:49,559
But it's not just you. That's not unprecedented. You said

524
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:51,839
that your mother believed you. What about your dad?

525
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: What it is? Take seemed to be on all this.

526
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:02,200
My dad actually did something pretty remarkable about a year

527
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200
into this, because I was fairly stressed. I couldn't sleep,

528
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:08,000
had to, you know, take those sleeping pills still, and

529
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,319
he actually got a group of soldiers to come over

530
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,440
to the house and they were all heavily armed and

531
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,599
in other flat jackets and their rifles, and he basically

532
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,319
announced that they were going to cleanse the house, and

533
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,640
he had me and my mom stand in the car

534
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:25,839
part while they went into the house. Now I'm sure

535
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,440
they all just sat around the kitchen table and drank

536
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,279
coffee for twenty minutes. But when they come out, the

537
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,640
leader of that pack basically come over to me and said,

538
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,759
you know, we've searched this entire house. There's nothing in there.

539
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,079
And I remember pointing out that there was a covey

540
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,640
in behind my dad's bed, and I said, did you

541
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,279
find that covey? It was like a duct coupy producting

542
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:44,039
for the house. And he says, yeah, he says, I

543
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:45,759
crawled in there on my hands, knees myself. He says,

544
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:48,359
I've searched that entire house. We've been up and down everywhere.

545
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,920
He says, whatever was here, he's not here anymore. And

546
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:53,839
it's definitely scared to come back because it knows we're here.

547
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,839
And if your father calls us, we'll be here in

548
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,000
two minutes and we'll take care of this thing. So

549
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:00,680
this was just a you know, a momotional play on

550
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:03,559
a child's mind. I mean I was a ten year old.

551
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:04,920
I mean it wasn't that small of a child. I

552
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,440
was ten years old. But this was a show of force.

553
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:10,319
And this is how my dad could deal with because

554
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:13,000
he was a soldier. So this show forced to show

555
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,559
his son that he's the boss. This is his house.

556
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:18,039
Nothing's getting into his house. Ese are his soldiers or

557
00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:21,720
his friends anyways. And I think that actually helped me.

558
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,440
I think that that showed me that people were on

559
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:25,960
my side, that people believed in me, that nobody was

560
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:27,880
laughing at me, and the guys with the guns were

561
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,720
just literally around the corner and there they were there

562
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:33,000
to help me if I needed it. So, yeah, that

563
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:33,799
was a game changer.

564
00:33:33,799 --> 00:33:37,599
Speaker 2: I'd say, Wow, what a great dad. I'm so glad

565
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,839
he did that. What a good man. You didn't know

566
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,720
what to expect when your parents sent you to see

567
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:47,079
that psychiatrist. That's a given you're just ten years old.

568
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,319
But looking back on how they treated you, what they

569
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,960
decided to do, are you happy with how they handled

570
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,519
the situation or do you think it was just a

571
00:33:58,559 --> 00:33:59,279
waste of time.

572
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Well, I think they were pretty much out of their element.

573
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:05,519
They didn't know how to deal with a kid who

574
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:08,559
saw the you know, the boogeyman. They just didn't really

575
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,000
know how to deal with the situation, so they, you know,

576
00:34:11,079 --> 00:34:12,639
they did the best they could. And then they realized

577
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,079
I wasn't sleeping, and I think it's called narcolepsy when

578
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:17,760
you just fall asleep randomly because of lack of sleep.

579
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,239
The stress levels are so high, and they you know,

580
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,960
they didn't know what to do, so they saw medical help,

581
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:29,199
and I'm not so sure that it really helped. You know,

582
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,119
probably the soldiers in the house with their guns was

583
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,400
probably a bigger help mentally psychologically for a child. But

584
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,079
I remember the psychiatrist himself, I definitely remember he did

585
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:40,960
not believe me. He absolutely did not believe me. And

586
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:42,960
so it doesn't really help when you're trying to tell

587
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,599
your story to somebody who basically just you know, doesn't believe,

588
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,800
just basically thinks you're just having nightmares, even you've dreamt

589
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,800
it all, you know. I mean, you can dream some

590
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,000
pretty wild dreams, and you can have some pretty vivid dreams,

591
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:58,760
but you're not standing there scream and smell and feel

592
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,119
and touch and know wide awake. They ain't no dream,

593
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,719
you know, this is the real world. And when the

594
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,760
psychologist himself doesn't believe it, you're trying to lose faith.

595
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,320
You lose faith in that and that sort of help.

596
00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: Well, of course you do. Yeah, there are people out

597
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,360
there who are naive enough to believe. Well, if you

598
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,199
have a dog man the counter, just go seek professional help.

599
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,719
Problem solved. But in a lot of cases, that's just

600
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,039
going to make the matter worse. So I definitely don't

601
00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:34,480
recommend doing that. But let me qualify that, Yes, there

602
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:38,960
are psychologists out there. There are psychiatrists out there who

603
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,400
will believe you and who will listen to you. But

604
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:45,239
the odds of actually finding one who will are like

605
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,519
hitting the lottery. So yeah, your odds of actually having

606
00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,599
a situation turn out for the better by seeking professional

607
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:56,480
help are nigh impossible.

608
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: They really are. Yeah. I think the best thing that

609
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,320
I did was when I, like I said, when I

610
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,360
was a young adult in university, when I actually decided

611
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,679
I would try to challenge this thing, you know, And

612
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,239
I used to go for walks in the park at night,

613
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,639
and I used to yell out there and say, come

614
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,679
come come back, you know, just just get back here.

615
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,880
I want to see you again. We're going to It's

616
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,880
resolved this, and I would. I really thought that if

617
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,239
I could get him to come back, I would be

618
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,320
able to close the issue. And of course he never

619
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,119
did come back. But that just alone read me willing

620
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:28,679
to challenge it, be willing to say, I'm not afraid anymore.

621
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,440
This this boy is not afraid. This is not a

622
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,159
little child anymore. This is a big man. And I'm

623
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:34,400
going to deal with the problem when the problem gets

624
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,639
to me. And just the fact that I tried to

625
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,679
do that actually changed the picture completely. It It set

626
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,559
me free. So I sleep well at night now, and

627
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,880
you know I don't I don't have any issues with

628
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,079
it now. I mean, I'm going to probably double lock

629
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,719
the doors tonight and get out my room, go and

630
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,000
put it next to my bed maybe, But yeah, it's

631
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:57,360
far behind me.

632
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: Now, Well that's great. I'm so glad it is.

633
00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: And you know how it is.

634
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 2: When you're that age, you're strong, and you're still young,

635
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:10,119
and everything your bulletproof, at least in your mind you are.

636
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,760
So I can understand why you did that. But looking back,

637
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,719
with your wisdom, with your knowledge, now do you wish

638
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,840
you wouldn't have done that? Because if you shake enough

639
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,320
trees a leopard just might fall out.

640
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what I would have actually have

641
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,559
done if it had ever come back. I like to

642
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,079
think in my head I would have challenged it. I

643
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:33,719
would have pulled out my pistol or got my knife out,

644
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,280
or I would have you know, I would have physically

645
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,960
challenged this creature. And but you know, the thing was

646
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,920
so huge. I wouldn't have stood a chance anyway. It's

647
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,480
even with the pistol. Thing was monstrous. But it was

648
00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:47,760
just closure. It was just mental closure. At least I

649
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,599
challenged it in my mind, even if I didn't ever

650
00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:53,360
see it or ever have a chance to physically do

651
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,199
anything with it a second time. At least in my

652
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,639
own mind, I was ready for the fight, and that

653
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,639
gave me closure. Yeah. So I ended up leaving Canada

654
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:04,920
and moving halfway around the world, and I left all

655
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,400
that behind. I think I've been back to Canada three

656
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,800
or four times in the last twenty five years, and

657
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:15,000
I've settled a new life. And yeah, I think the

658
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:18,480
demons and the evils of whatever's out there on the

659
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,000
prairies is true and far behind.

660
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: Me now, well hopefully. So. I'm kind of conflicted on

661
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,000
whether to let you know about this or not. But

662
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:31,679
dog men are in Africa. I don't know about werewolves

663
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,559
if they actually do exist. Which listening to you talk

664
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,480
about your experience, if that wasn't a were wolf, I

665
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,079
don't know what it was. But yeah, I mean, the odds,

666
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,599
even if you were a stateside or in Canada, the

667
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:48,280
odds of you having another encounter are very very remote.

668
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:52,599
For whatever that helps. But moving on there down the road,

669
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:55,840
if you were to have another experience, do you think

670
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,960
that's a good thing now or a bad thing? Because

671
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,480
if you did have another ex experience, I guess there's

672
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:04,880
that remote possibility that would allow you to bring closure

673
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,440
to all this. I don't know you, so I'm not

674
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,280
sure how your thinking works. So that's why I was

675
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,320
asking me about that.

676
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think if I saw another one, I don't

677
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:20,519
think I would be frightened, because I had so much

678
00:39:20,639 --> 00:39:24,320
fear and trauma for all those years that I've run

679
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,119
out of fear. It's gone. I truly think that if

680
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:29,960
I bumped into one tonight on the street, I would

681
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:33,159
ponder it. I would probably try to talk to it.

682
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,440
I would probably try to engage with it. My younger

683
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:39,480
me ten years ago or twenty years ago, probably would

684
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,159
have tried to fight it or kill it, But I

685
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,199
don't think it would affect me anywhere near as strongly, irrationally,

686
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,800
as poorly as it did all those years back. If

687
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:55,960
I've never heard of dog men being here in Kenya

688
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,480
where I stay, I've never heard the locals talk about them.

689
00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:01,960
They talk about things like the night runners and these

690
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:04,079
creatures that run around at night, banging on the roofs

691
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,800
and banging on their doors. But as far as those

692
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,480
night runners go, I don't. I don't think there's any

693
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:13,880
physical description of them. It's more like just you know,

694
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,679
bumps in the night. So I've never actually heard of

695
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,480
dog men being around my at least in my area

696
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:18,920
of Kenya.

697
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: Night Runners what are they supposed to look like.

698
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: Well, they're supposed to be ethereal. I guess they're sort

699
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,920
of smoke and mirrors, and they just you know, throw

700
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,599
stones at your house and knock on your door in

701
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:33,920
the middle of the night and wake you up. And

702
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:37,280
they're you know, the banshee. The banshee sounds the yelling

703
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,280
and screaming at night. And there's there's also people that

704
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:43,880
mimic the night runners. So people will go out and

705
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,320
they will have big bonfires and then they'll run around

706
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,320
the villages in the tribal parts of Kenya, and they'll

707
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,199
also mimic the antics of a night runner and they

708
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:57,199
call themselves night runners as well. So yeah, it's sort

709
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,960
of more of a superstition or a lore or ah

710
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:02,079
things that go bump in the night. Yeah.

711
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:06,119
Speaker 2: Wow, Jay running around the middle of the night pretending

712
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,840
to be a night runner in Kenya. That doesn't sound

713
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,800
like a very wise move. That's a good way to

714
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:11,920
get the windlet out.

715
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:18,119
Speaker 1: Of you, absolutely, Yeah, especially out here in rural Africa, Mana,

716
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:19,760
you're going to get a pang of a machety attack

717
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,880
on you. So yeah, not not a very safe sport,

718
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,440
that's for sure. No, it's not.

719
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: I could think of places where it'd be a lot

720
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,760
safer to do something like that, but definitely not a

721
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,639
good idea at all.

722
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: There's also a place here called Nandy which is pretty

723
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,840
close to where I live, and apparently there's a thing

724
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,480
called the Nandy Bear and it goes back to the

725
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:42,599
colonial days. It hasn't been seen in a long time,

726
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:46,599
but this Nandy Bear is supposedly well a bigfoot and

727
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,119
it's up in the Nandy Hills by a town called Elderrat,

728
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:52,800
which is about three hundred kilometers from where I live.

729
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,920
And yeah, the Nandy bear was a thing in the

730
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,920
colonial times, but like a bigfoot.

731
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: I thought I had heard about sasquatch being in Africa,

732
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,760
but never really did hear all that much about that,

733
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:07,840
So that's interesting. I don't need to ask you if

734
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,519
you think this thing was intelligent, because it's clear you

735
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:14,159
definitely do believe it was intelligent because of the way

736
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:17,639
it acted and conducted itself. But when we look at

737
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:19,880
the big picture here, here you were this little kid

738
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,440
in bed cornered by this thing. If we don't lose

739
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,599
sight of the fact that it had intelligence, why do

740
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,320
you think it went through all the trouble to come

741
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,519
into your bedroom and not hurt you when it had

742
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:34,159
every opportunity to do so.

743
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,679
Speaker 1: I think that it walked in the front door of

744
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,760
the house because we didn't lock our doors. We lived

745
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,639
on a military base in what I called a gated community, right,

746
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,039
nobody locked their doors. This is in the eighties, in

747
00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:49,440
a very secure area of the world. Nobody locked their doors.

748
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,679
I think this thing just literally walked in the front door,

749
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,360
walked up to the first door on the right and

750
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,440
opened the door and walked in there. I was. I

751
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,800
think that's that's all that happened. This thing did not

752
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,519
try to grab me, It didn't try to cost me.

753
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,039
It didn't do anything to me except just stare at me.

754
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,400
It literally almost like it just walked in off the

755
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,159
street and it was as stunned by seeing me as

756
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:10,159
I was done by seeing it. And it just literally

757
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,800
stood there and breathed this raspy, stinking breath at me

758
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,519
and just looked at me and then gave me that

759
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,559
final smile and jumped out my window. For all the

760
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,119
fear and as scared as I was, this thing never

761
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,079
actually attempted to do anything to me. It didn't. It

762
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:29,320
didn't even have a threatening mannerism at all. It just

763
00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:32,639
literally didn't snarl at me. It didn't it didn't bark

764
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,039
at me, it didn't howl. It just literally paced up

765
00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:36,679
and down the end of my bed and jumped out

766
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:37,119
my window.

767
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:42,199
Speaker 2: Well, thank goodness left eventually watching it do that hiding

768
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,599
thing behind your mom's back, that'd be almost as traumatizing

769
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,119
as being cornered by this thing as it's looming over you.

770
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:49,960
That's horrible.

771
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: This thing was smart. It knew my mom was coming.

772
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,400
It prepared for her to come through the door. It

773
00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:57,599
hurt her coming, prepared for her. It jumped behind her.

774
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:01,559
It was it was extremely quick, extremely quick, like lightning fast.

775
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,400
And yeah, very intelligent. But the way that it looked

776
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:06,840
at me in the bed, I would almost say it

777
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,519
was curious. I always say there was curiosity. It was

778
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:13,800
almost like, what is this thing? Or you know, I

779
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,719
don't know. Obviously I must know what I am, but

780
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,760
I'm looking at me and the way I'm sleeping or

781
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,280
my size or I don't know. It was curious. And

782
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,039
the way it smiled at me before I jumped was

783
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:29,639
an intelligent smile. It was communicating something. It was communicating goodbye,

784
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,400
maybe a goodbye smile or a you know, nice knowing

785
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,760
you smile. And then I left. There was it was

786
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,559
definitely intelligent, absolutely intelligent.

787
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: Oh it sure sounds like it. I'm not really sure

788
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:47,280
the best way to ask this next question considering how

789
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,239
big it was, but also at the same time, the

790
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,800
fact that you said it was lightning fast, being able

791
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,239
to move stay behind your mother. She would look this way,

792
00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:59,920
it would move the other way behind her, and vice versa.

793
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:03,599
Did it look like it had weight or did it

794
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:06,079
seem to be weightless? And that's how it was able

795
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:07,639
to be so quick.

796
00:45:09,519 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: I would put it, I probably say weightless. This thing

797
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,199
was shifting from to the left to the right. I mean,

798
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,519
my mother was doing it and this thing was matching

799
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:24,559
it at the same speed. But it had to know

800
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,280
my mother was doing it. It has to be like,

801
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:27,719
it has to be half a second ahead of my

802
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,760
mother to be able to keep out of her vision, right,

803
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,039
And it's always keeping out of her vision. So it's

804
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:36,360
moving almost ethereally. It's almost moving like like it's like

805
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,920
when it turned into the blue light. It's it's almost

806
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:42,840
not human. It's it's almost like it's not part of

807
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,679
the physical world. It's it's I don't even know the

808
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,280
words for it. I don't have the words for it.

809
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,159
It's ethereal. It's not it's not real. It's like it's

810
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,199
I don't know, I don't know the words for it.

811
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,960
I just don't. I don't. I don't possess the words

812
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,920
for that type of motion, that type of creature. It's

813
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,559
almost like spotty. When you watch it move from the

814
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:05,519
left to the right, it's almost like it's twitching. It's

815
00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:08,840
like like it's twitching fast. It's it's not like a

816
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,000
smooth movement. It's it's it's twitching through its movements. It's

817
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:16,000
it's it's almost like it's there one minute and one

818
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:20,039
second and not there the next second. So is it waitless,

819
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:23,920
I don't know. I don't know. It's it's almost like

820
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,079
it's not real. It's almost like it's you're looking at

821
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:28,880
a reflection or something. Does that make any sense?

822
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense, And it's funny talking about

823
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,440
things that aren't unprecedented. I've spoken with other eyewitnesses, dogman eyewitnesses,

824
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:42,360
that is, who talked about noticing twitchy movements from the

825
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,079
dogmen that they saw. Now, again, we don't know what

826
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:47,719
this thing was. Doesn't seem to be a dog mean

827
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,239
doing the things that this thing did, But people have

828
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,280
told me about noticing a twitchy hard to describe the movements,

829
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,880
but a jerky kind of a twitchy movement to the

830
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,360
dogman that they saw. So it's not just you.

831
00:47:04,159 --> 00:47:06,639
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I, again I've not heard that from

832
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:09,239
any well, I haven't watched a lot of your your podcasts,

833
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,960
to be honest, but or listened to a lot of

834
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,800
your podcasts. But I'm going to have to start listening

835
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,199
now because that twitchy movement that I described that you've

836
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,119
just described that that, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

837
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:20,880
It's almost like twitching in and out of reality like

838
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,920
a thousand times a second, and it's it's there, but

839
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,159
it's not quite there. And it's moving so fast, and

840
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,280
like it when it leaped towards the window, it just

841
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,119
it's like it disappeared. It was so fast. I mean

842
00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:36,400
it covered that ten to twelve feet in it just

843
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,440
a nanosecond. And and and the ball a light appeared

844
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,440
about halfway through its journey from the edge of the

845
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,280
bed to the window, but halfway just it justook down

846
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,880
into a little blue ball the size of a golf

847
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,119
ball and zoom straight out the window. Crazy crazy, super speed,

848
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:51,079
super super speed.

849
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to wrap your mind around all these

850
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:56,880
things they can do. It just seemed to be impossible.

851
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,400
And you're talking about how quick and how fast that

852
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:02,639
thing was. It brings to mind an experience that any

853
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,199
witness shared with me years ago. This was probably five

854
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,760
six years ago. This guy had some credentials, he had

855
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,920
a lot of experience in the military, I think even

856
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,159
special forces. Well, one night, he lives way out I

857
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,599
think in the mountains. Well, one night he heard some

858
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:24,480
noise out at his dog kennel, and at first I

859
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:26,760
think he brushed it off, but then he got the

860
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,440
impression there might be something going on out there. So

861
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:32,280
he put his shorts on, I guess, and his shoes,

862
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,480
and he grabbed a gun and a flashlight and headed

863
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:41,119
out there behind his house. And without turning on his flashlight,

864
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,360
there was enough moonlight out I think, he said, where

865
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,800
he was able to look over towards the kennels, and

866
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,719
he noticed a huge black figure standing on his side

867
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,320
of the kennels, staring at the dogs in the kennels.

868
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:58,400
The dogs were going crazy, running back and forth and everything,

869
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,559
and this thing was tall enough where it was like

870
00:49:00,639 --> 00:49:04,159
it's towering over the kennels. I can't remember how Tally said.

871
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,599
This thing was I think probably about eight feetish or so,

872
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,400
maybe taller, maybe a little shorter, But anyway, he couldn't

873
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,559
tell what it was understandably, so he was just seeing

874
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:17,559
like a silhouette. So he decided to try and creep

875
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,360
up on it. So using all the skills that he

876
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:23,880
had amassed over the years. He started to working his

877
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,119
way towards it, and it still added back towards him. Well,

878
00:49:27,159 --> 00:49:30,519
once he got within a certain range, I think pretty close.

879
00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:34,079
I think he was probably maybe seven eight feet from it,

880
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:37,599
directly behind it. All of a sudden, without him making

881
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,480
any noise. He said, he was dead silent. All of

882
00:49:41,559 --> 00:49:46,440
a sudden, without any indications, this thing pivoted. It's not

883
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:51,039
the right word. It spun around in place so fast

884
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:56,559
that he couldn't even see it turn. He said that

885
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,599
at that range, I think you could see the pointed

886
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:02,400
ears on top of its head kind of angled down

887
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,159
because it was looking down at the kennels. And the

888
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,559
next thing you knew, it spun around so quick that

889
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:12,039
its back became its front, its front became its back.

890
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:15,800
It's facing him. It's just right there, steering him down.

891
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,880
When they do things like that, it sure it does

892
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,400
make you wonder how in the world something so big

893
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,039
can move that fast, can be so agile. It's just

894
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:28,239
really hard to wrap your head around.

895
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,519
Speaker 1: Well, this is just like when I jumped behind my mom.

896
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:34,719
I mean, it was just standing at the edge of

897
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,280
the bed in one second, and then instantly it's behind

898
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,440
my mother back to back that movement, it's not visible.

899
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,559
I don't remember seeing it actually jump behind my mom.

900
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:48,639
It's just suddenly just behind my mom. But another thing

901
00:50:48,679 --> 00:50:51,000
that's interesting, You said that creature was standing there watching

902
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:53,760
the dogs, just observing them, just staring at them. Well,

903
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,800
that's exactly what this thing was doing to me, who

904
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,519
was just standing there observing me. Yeah, it's the same

905
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:03,840
sort of situation where it's just observing. It doesn't seem

906
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,440
to be threatening, and just watching the barking dogs, or

907
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:08,920
just watching the kids sleep in his bed. Just it's

908
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,360
just observing peacefully, and then when somebody's intruding into its space,

909
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,400
it just it just does these weird, quick jerky movements

910
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,079
and well just jumps away, just gets away.

911
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:21,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to be a reason why I did

912
00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:24,599
what it did that night, Tea. Their thoughts are their own.

913
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,719
You just can't think for them, so only they know

914
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,880
why they do the things they do. You said that

915
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,400
it smiled at you. With that in mind, how would

916
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,519
you describe its teeth.

917
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that they were much different than a

918
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,079
normal dog's teeth, to be honest. The insize was the

919
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:45,960
canine in sizers they come down are very long. I mean,

920
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:49,320
I mean, this was a big head and these are

921
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,280
big teeth, and they protrude it out out of the mouth.

922
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,960
Even when the mouth was shut, the fangs were still

923
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,039
sticking out, so the fangs were there, so they're very large.

924
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,440
But as far as there is, one report that I

925
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:04,920
heard said that it were really pointy teeth, really sharp

926
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,880
pointed teeth. The only really evident teeth that were evident

927
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:11,039
that I could see was these two big canines sticking

928
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:14,280
out the front. The rest just looked like normal dog's teeth.

929
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:16,800
I didn't see anything particularly strange about them.

930
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: Well, well that's interesting. Did you ever see it drool?

931
00:52:23,079 --> 00:52:26,039
Speaker 1: No, it did not drool, and it didn't close its

932
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:29,039
mouth the entire time. Its mouth was always open. It

933
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:31,519
was a mouth breather. It was breathing through its mouth.

934
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,639
That's wh where the raspy sound was coming from. So

935
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,400
this was a mouth breather with its mouth partially open

936
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,679
and never opened its mouth further than that. And it

937
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,360
never closed its mouth through the whole time that it

938
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,519
was there. It just had its mouth partially open, maybe

939
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:45,639
like one inch open, breathing through its mouth.

940
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 2: A lot of dog men ow witnesses report that the

941
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,960
teeth and the dog man's mouth that they saw seemed

942
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,679
to be too big to allow it to close its mouth.

943
00:52:55,039 --> 00:52:57,679
Do you think that might be why this one that

944
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,920
you saw, whatever it was, didn't close its mouth.

945
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: It could be it could be because it didn't close

946
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,400
its mouth. Yeah, absolutely, why not? I mean I wasn't

947
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:10,119
really staring at its teeth, but I was, you know,

948
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,920
eye contact was a big thing, trying to keep eye

949
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,559
contact with this thing, and looking at that ear with

950
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:18,199
that badging it. I kept looking at that ear, and

951
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,280
then I kept looking at its torso because it was

952
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,440
just rippling with muscles. And so this is my focus

953
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:26,440
was eyes and ears and torsos. That's where I was

954
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,679
my attention was drawn to. I wasn't really looking at

955
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:33,079
its mouth so much, but it definitely gaping, not gaping,

956
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,000
just an open mouth, maybe one inch open. And I

957
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,679
never stuck its tongue out, and it never panted. There

958
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,719
was no panting like a dog would pant. It was

959
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:46,440
just raspy. This type of breathing really strange.

960
00:53:47,519 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: Wow, that isn't creepy if it had its mouth open

961
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,559
the whole time, did you notice anything unusual about its tongue?

962
00:53:57,559 --> 00:53:59,599
Speaker 1: I didn't see its tongue. I never saw its tongue.

963
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:03,880
I was looking up and I don't remember seeing its

964
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,320
tongue at all, not at all.

965
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 2: Oh, that's all right. I mean, like I said, you

966
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,960
have so much going through your head that you're doing

967
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:14,480
good to know what year it was. So that's totally understandable.

968
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,519
How would you describe the lighting conditions in the room bright?

969
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: So the window that it exited through was quite a

970
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,199
large window at the end of my bed, and it

971
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,440
didn't have blinds or curtains on it. It was just

972
00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:32,559
like a big open window, and the backyard was illuminated.

973
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,719
The whole back area behind these houses was like a

974
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,559
big military compound and it was all illuminated, so the

975
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:40,400
lights would just come straight in through to the window.

976
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,119
So the ambient light was good enough that I could

977
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:46,280
see color, because I could tell the color of the

978
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,400
badge in its ear, the blue badge. So if most

979
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,159
people see in grayscale in the dark, and if you

980
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:57,079
can see any sort of color, then your ambient light

981
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,360
must be high enough for your optics to pick up

982
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,599
the color there with the rods and the cones in

983
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:05,159
your eyes. So if you're seeing color, there's enough light,

984
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,119
and there's definitely I could definitely see the brown on

985
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:09,719
my wall, and I could see the blue in its ear,

986
00:55:10,199 --> 00:55:13,960
and so the lighting was very good. Actually, sure does

987
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:14,599
make you wonder.

988
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 2: On one hand, if the room would have been dark,

989
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,320
you wouldn't have gotten as good of a look. Sometimes

990
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,960
not being able to see something like that very well

991
00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:26,079
makes it that much more intense, that much more frightening.

992
00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:29,159
But what's your take on that? Do you think it

993
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,480
was definitely a good thing to see this thing so well?

994
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's probably better to know what you're

995
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,199
dealing with rather than some shadow of some spook in

996
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,679
the closet this thing. Another thing about the color was

997
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,840
the color of its fur is quite interesting. Is that

998
00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:49,480
grayish blue color that you get on a blue hiller dog,

999
00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:51,880
you know, an Australian cattle dog. It was that color

1000
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,360
sort of like almost give me the impression that it's

1001
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,719
an old man like an old like blue hair with

1002
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:04,000
black streaks in it, almost elderly colored hair, if that

1003
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:04,800
makes any sense.

1004
00:56:05,679 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense. It might have had some

1005
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:08,159
age to it.

1006
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: You never know. It wasn't shaggy hair either, It wasn't unkempt.

1007
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,960
It was. I mean, I would almost say groomed. I

1008
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,199
would almost say that the fur was groomed. It wasn't shaggy,

1009
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:25,920
it wasn't ruffled up. I mean, maybe groomed is not

1010
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,119
the right term either, but it definitely wasn't shaggy. I

1011
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,519
would almost say this is a groomed old man. I

1012
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:34,119
would say this is a groomed or just by the

1013
00:56:34,159 --> 00:56:37,519
color of his hair, it seemed muscular like a young man,

1014
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:40,719
but the color of an old man, and groomed like

1015
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,840
an older man would take care of himself. I don't know.

1016
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,119
This is kind of the impressions that I have thinking

1017
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:46,519
back to what I saw that night.

1018
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 2: Well, I still think you should be commended for all

1019
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,079
the details you noticed. Most people would have noticed half

1020
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:56,920
as many things as he did, so that's impressive. He

1021
00:56:57,039 --> 00:56:59,800
said that it didn't have glowing amber eyes or red

1022
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,719
eye You said its eyes were cold black. Did its

1023
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,320
pupils feil its whole eye socket or could you see

1024
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,239
a little bit of white on either side?

1025
00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:13,599
Speaker 1: There was absolutely no white in his eyes. His eyes

1026
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,079
were black pits. They were just completely solid black. There

1027
00:57:17,159 --> 00:57:19,280
was no pupil, there was no white, There were just

1028
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,079
black pits.

1029
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:25,079
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's pretty intimidating. There are elements to

1030
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:28,239
that thing that you saw, Jay that tell me that

1031
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,199
it just might have been a dog man. There are

1032
00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:33,400
elements that make me think it must have been something else,

1033
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:37,960
i e. A werewolf. A lot of dogmen eyewitnesses when

1034
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,360
you look at the big picture, not many eyewitnesses or

1035
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,239
port seeing this, But I've spoken with thousands upon thousands

1036
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,440
of dogmen eyewitnesses over the years. So as a result,

1037
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:51,320
I have talked to my fear share of eyewitnesses who

1038
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,599
have witnessed seeing orbs either before the dog man showed

1039
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:59,599
up or after the dog man showed up, but never

1040
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:02,519
or have they reported to me seeing a dog man

1041
00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:06,079
turn into an orb or transform from an orb into

1042
00:58:06,199 --> 00:58:10,280
the form of a dog man. But there definitely does

1043
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,400
seem to be a connection there. So maybe what you

1044
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,039
saw actually was a dog man, I don't know. But

1045
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:18,599
the pants, the fact this thing had pants on, that

1046
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,159
makes me think it must have been something other than

1047
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:25,440
a dog man, possibly if were wolves do exist, possibly

1048
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,960
a were wolf. And then also on top of that,

1049
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:32,559
further muddy the waters, what about that badge in it's here?

1050
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:36,000
So there are elements to this whole thing that. I'm

1051
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:37,519
not really sure what to think about it.

1052
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,719
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a report where a werewolf

1053
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,920
or a dog man is wearing clothing? Have you ever

1054
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:44,920
heard of any report like that?

1055
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I've heard about people seeing things that are

1056
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,920
that shape that have pants on or shorts on. But

1057
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,280
I don't know if that means it was a were

1058
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,039
wolf not a dog man. I don't know what to

1059
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:00,559
think of that, because dog men look the way they

1060
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:03,639
do twenty four seven three sixty five. But that's not

1061
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,760
to say there aren't other things out there that do

1062
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,239
have the ability to transform somehow from the form of

1063
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,639
a human to that of a werewolve. So I don't know.

1064
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,760
I really don't know what to think about that.

1065
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,039
Speaker 1: Well, when I tell a story to the few people

1066
00:59:18,119 --> 00:59:21,199
I have told it to, most people are willing to

1067
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,519
accept the orbit part of it, but they are absolutely

1068
00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:27,639
incredulous at the fact that this thing was wearing pants.

1069
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,840
That's the thing that really like people say, ah, that's nonsense,

1070
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,599
is wearing pants. But they can easily accept this thing

1071
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:36,719
turning into a blue orb and bouncing out my window.

1072
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:40,880
I mean, I don't understand, well, that makes two of us.

1073
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: There's so many things when it comes to dog me

1074
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,920
in the encounters and encounters like yours, there might be

1075
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:49,480
something other than a dog men.

1076
00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: We don't know what it was.

1077
00:59:51,199 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's so many things that we just don't

1078
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:58,320
know about, all these things that just adds to the mystery,

1079
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:02,840
it really does. It seems like you're okay now present day.

1080
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,280
But does that mean that you can head into the

1081
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,239
jungle there in Kenya if you have any jungle around

1082
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,039
near where you're at right now without any issues, or

1083
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:15,639
do you still have trouble going out at night? Do

1084
01:00:15,719 --> 01:00:17,000
you still look over your shoulder?

1085
01:00:17,199 --> 01:00:20,599
Speaker 1: In other words, No, I'm pretty confident these days. I

1086
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:22,880
don't have any issues. I do live next to a

1087
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,800
tropical rainforest, and I hike up in there pretty regularly actually,

1088
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,920
and it's called the Cacamega Rainforest. So I hike up

1089
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,400
in there, and I travel all around East Africa. I

1090
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,599
was in Rwanda a bit ago, and I spent a

1091
01:00:36,639 --> 01:00:39,119
lot of time in Uganda, and I get out into

1092
01:00:39,159 --> 01:00:41,480
some pretty remote places and I don't have any fear.

1093
01:00:41,559 --> 01:00:44,719
I don't have any fear. The only thing here that

1094
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:51,280
really is dangerous is the actual the known wildlife. You know, hippos, crocodiles.

1095
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,800
They're the real fear here. But as far as anything

1096
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,239
supernatural like a dog mat or a werewolf or a

1097
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,119
nandy bear, I don't have any fear. No, nothing like

1098
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:00,719
that in Kenya.

1099
01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:04,239
Speaker 2: Well that's great, as long as you can say that.

1100
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,199
That's a great thing. Now that you're as old and

1101
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,840
wise as you are. I know there are kids listening

1102
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:13,920
to the show tonight who have had their own encounters

1103
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,760
with dog men coming into their bedrooms. What kind of

1104
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,480
advice would you give those kids? Keeping in mind that

1105
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,320
some of those kids haven't told their parents about their

1106
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,360
experiences with dog men, I've kept the experiences to themselves

1107
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,159
for obvious reasons. Given all of your wisdom, what would

1108
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:33,480
you say to a kid like that who's listening to

1109
01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:35,920
tonight's show in the way of advice.

1110
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: I think I would try to engage it rather than

1111
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:40,880
do what I did, which was just basically wet my

1112
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,519
pants and hide in the corner and cower like a little,

1113
01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:46,760
you know, a little scaredy cat. I think I would

1114
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,920
try to engage, because you have nothing to lose by

1115
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:53,480
talking to it, or trying to speak to it, or

1116
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,440
see if there's any way to engage with it. I

1117
01:01:56,519 --> 01:02:00,400
wouldn't be scared, because there's no point you're going to

1118
01:02:00,519 --> 01:02:03,519
waste years of your life being scared of the dark.

1119
01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:07,840
When if you have seen a dog man and it

1120
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,639
hasn't attacked you, it hasn't hurt you, it hasn't shown

1121
01:02:10,679 --> 01:02:12,760
in the aggression towards you, why do you think it's

1122
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,559
going to do it if you try to engage it,

1123
01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:16,079
If you say, hey, what are you doing over there,

1124
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,199
and try to engage this creature. If it hasn't hurt

1125
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:20,679
you already, why do you think it's going to hurt

1126
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:23,519
you in the future, And why should you be scared

1127
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:28,639
and spend the future years of your life and eternal fear. Basically, so, no,

1128
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,320
my advice is engaged, try to talk to it, try

1129
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,679
to see what it's up to, and of course, if

1130
01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:35,519
it is dangerous. If it does do something dangerous, well

1131
01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:38,679
that's a different story. But very few encounters that I've

1132
01:02:38,719 --> 01:02:42,360
seen so far on your podcasts are actually dangerous encounters.

1133
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:43,760
Most of them are just visuals.

1134
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 2: You're right, that's how it normally goes. After speaking with

1135
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,440
thousands upon thousands of dogmen eyewitnesses, a grand total of

1136
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:55,800
credible eyewitnesses, I've ever spoken with or wherever intentionally harmed

1137
01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:59,679
by a dogman. The encountered seventy eight maybe nine. So

1138
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,519
that says everything right there, it really does. You're gonna

1139
01:03:04,519 --> 01:03:07,039
be surprised to hear this, but yeah, there have been

1140
01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:09,599
a number of people who have contacted me here recently

1141
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,719
to let me know about an experience they had with

1142
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,559
a dog man coming into their bedroom. Not looking out

1143
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:16,960
the bedroom window and seeing it out there, but actually

1144
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:20,199
contacting me to tell me about an encounter they had

1145
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:25,119
inside their bedrooms. So yeah, it's far from being a

1146
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:28,760
case of just you having to deal with the trauma of.

1147
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: That over the years.

1148
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: It's not just you bought a long shot. But having

1149
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,599
said that, do you have any clothes in comments you'd

1150
01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:37,400
like to share before we get out of here.

1151
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: No, I'm I'm glad I got that off my chest,

1152
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,360
and I guess telling the world now, there's probably only

1153
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,440
about twenty twenty five people in the entire planet that

1154
01:03:46,519 --> 01:03:51,559
even know had this encounter, So yeah, it's interesting. I

1155
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:56,039
would keep an open mind, keep looking in the shadows,

1156
01:03:56,159 --> 01:03:58,599
see what you can see out there, and I wouldn't

1157
01:03:58,599 --> 01:03:59,960
be scared of things that go bump in the night.

1158
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:03,320
I think try to embrace it and don't bring the

1159
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,599
fear inside. I think that's my advice.

1160
01:04:06,639 --> 01:04:10,719
Speaker 2: Well, that's really good advice, it really is. Jack. I

1161
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:12,599
can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing the

1162
01:04:12,679 --> 01:04:15,559
details of this experience with us. I really appreciate it.

1163
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:17,599
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Vic.

1164
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,119
Speaker 2: Well, you know you're welcome, glad to give you a platform.

1165
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,079
Thanks again so much for your time, and have a

1166
01:04:24,159 --> 01:04:24,599
great night.