WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.440 in the True Story FM family of entertainment podcast What's Up, 3 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:07.839 Most Excellent Friends. 4 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:11.599 It's Christy and Nathan for the Most Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast. 5 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.800 It's a podcast where a filmmaker and a comedian and 6 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:17.920 their most excellent guests adventure their way through the eighties 7 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:20.879 movies we think we love or might have missed with 8 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.079 our grown up eyes to see how they hold up. 9 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:27.960 Join us for delightful discussion, rollicking recaps. 10 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:30.039 Ratings, and deep cut recommendations. 11 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:32.920 Plus members get some extra fun chit chat with the 12 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:34.159 hosts after the show. 13 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:37.880 Download the Most Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast today at true 14 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:39.359 story dot fm. 15 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:42.000 Or find it wherever the finest podcast are stored. 16 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.799 And do remember to keep the Most Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast. 17 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:50.200 Motto in mind. Be excellent to each other and Pardi yon. Dude, 18 00:00:50.439 --> 00:01:01.520 It's What's Up, Supernatural Superfans. I'm Christy Lens and I'm 19 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:08.319 Nate McWorter, and we're the host of Gang Gang That Drink, 20 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:12.239 a supernatural drinking game podcast. 21 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.439 It's the podcast where we make up drinking game rules 22 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:22.120 for our favorite episode of our favorite show. Supernatural, we recap. 23 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:23.799 The episode for you and let you know how all 24 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:25.079 the rules played out. 25 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:27.159 Then we let you know the drinking game rules for 26 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:29.400 the next episode so you can play along. 27 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:34.239 Plus members get every episode early at ad free. 28 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.439 With some extra bonus content chit chat at the end 29 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.519 of each episode as a member exclusive. 30 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.359 So download Gank That Drink, a supernatural drinking game podcast 31 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.640 wherever the finest podcasts are available, and. 32 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.040 Or become a member at true story dot Fm. Sash 33 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:49.920 Gank That Drink. 34 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.200 And when you're out there in the world saving people 35 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:53.040 and hunting. 36 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.719 Things, you know the family business, keep the. 37 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.799 Gank that Drink motto in mind, be excellent to each 38 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:12.199 other and ardan dude. 39 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.719 Hello and welcome to this episode of the Superhero Ethics podcast. 40 00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:24.319 I'm Matthew. I'm joined by my regular co host Riki, 41 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:28.639 and today we're talking about Gundam. Gundam is, for those 42 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:30.159 of you who have probably at least heard about it 43 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.199 in some way those who may know it very well, 44 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:37.520 a long running anime franchise that has had many different 45 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:41.520 brands and video games and anime shows, and most recently 46 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:46.080 had a anime that came to Netflix. We're similar I 47 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.199 believe to Terminator zero. This was recorded with the intention 48 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.599 of having an English and a Japanese speaking cast, and 49 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:54.919 so I watched the English version. Riki, I think you 50 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.560 watched the Japanese language version, but we'll talk more about that, 51 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.319 and we wanted to talk about it today through a 52 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:05.039 couple of lenses. Gundam is something that has come up 53 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.599 a number of times when Riki are talking. We've talked 54 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:10.080 about the Mecca anime genre, and this is by many 55 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.840 people considered to be the first and often kind of 56 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.120 like the dominant one out there, so that shaped a 57 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:20.120 lot of what became known as the genre. We've been 58 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:24.120 having conversations a lot about the way fascism can play 59 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:28.199 into stories of superheroes, and uh anime being one particular 60 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:30.479 area where that can come up, and Riki had said 61 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.199 this was a good one to watch, and then kind 62 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.280 of a related issue the way that Germans and Germany 63 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:43.360 are often portrayed in anime as one that sort of 64 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.199 I've been interested to talk more about with Riekey because 65 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:47.840 I've seen it a lot and not exactly sure what 66 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.439 it means. Had some thoughts, and we'd suggested that this 67 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.400 one might be kind of part of that conversation. I 68 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:57.560 think that though that and the Fascism may wind up 69 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:59.479 being their own episodes, and it maybe we just kind 70 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.240 of dip our them today as part of talking about Gundam. 71 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:04.919 But I wanted to kind of frame what we're gonna 72 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:08.599 be talking about today grially, because I know this most 73 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.599 recent show is one that has sparked a lot of conversation, 74 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:13.479 a lot of controversy, with a lot of people really 75 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:15.240 not liking it for a lot of reasons. I can 76 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.879 really understand. I am someone who Riky definitely being one 77 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.000 of them. I am someone who this was my introduction 78 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.199 to Gundham. I'd actually ask Riky what he thinks I 79 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.240 should have watched first, and he suggested I watched this 80 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:30.360 one because well, obviously this story fits into a larger 81 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.439 narrative that I'm gonna learn about today. I watched it 82 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:37.079 going in knowing nothing, and I found it a complete 83 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.879 story and I didn't find myself like there's a lot 84 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.000 that I didn't know. But I think the show kind 85 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.120 of intentionally takes advantage of that. So we're going to 86 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:46.920 talk first about the show itself, because I think a 87 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.720 lot of people this is just the only one they've watched, 88 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.279 and then we are going to talk about in the 89 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.240 larger contacts. So if you're listening to me to talk 90 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.839 about what I know just from the show and you're like, wait, wait, no, 91 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.399 but don't you know the larger context, I promise you 92 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:03.079 we will get to that and on. Here in superhero ethics, 93 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:07.439 we're mostly concerned with the ethical choices, the moral choices, 94 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:11.240 the messaging of a show, and it's it's who is 95 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:13.839 the protagonist and what is their point of view and 96 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.519 why are they fighting and all that. We're not really 97 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.839 as interested in the artistry of the shows. But it 98 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:21.480 is an issue that has come up quite a lot, 99 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:23.120 and I think it's going to illustrate a very interesting 100 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.079 difference between Riky and I. So Riki, let me first 101 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:28.399 ask what do you think of the animation in the show? 102 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:29.759 I hated it? 103 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.839 Yeah, So I want to address a couple of points. First, 104 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.279 I did. I actually didn't watch the Japanese language version. 105 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:39.959 It just it defaulted to playing in English and I 106 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:41.000 didn't really think of it. 107 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:42.920 But I also think. 108 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:47.000 That's fine because this is not something that was like 109 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.560 most anime, was not something that was recorded and like 110 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.959 drawn for Japanese and then translated, right. I like, I 111 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:56.879 don't know what the process was, but it does seem 112 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:01.000 like it was a just will animated GENI like, I 113 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:03.800 didn't pay too much attention to the lit movement and such, 114 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:06.279 so I'm not sure, but it does seem like it 115 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:09.120 was just like, yeah, we're gonna make this in Japanese 116 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:14.920 and English at the very least. Gundam in general, yeah, is. 117 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.399 I think it's considered the longest running anime franchise or 118 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:23.319 meca franchise one or the one or both, and it's 119 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:29.639 it started the like real robots anime genre. Prior to Gundam, 120 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.839 there was what's called super Robots, which is a little 121 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.839 bit more like Power Ranger style, like fighting against monsters, 122 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.680 and and there's no like mechanical realism to the robots, 123 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:44.959 and in fact, they're often not robots. They're just like 124 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:46.920 beings that are robotics sometimes. 125 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.279 And the discussion of Neon Genesis Evangelian for a long un. 126 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.439 Well, that's that's also that's like another that's after Gundam 127 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:59.839 and is a separate newer thing. Gundam specifically like started this. 128 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.920 We want to think about robots realistically and like how 129 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.639 they would be used in military and it is very 130 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:12.279 beloved because of that, because it started this whole genre, 131 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:17.079 and you can really feel the realism in much of 132 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.040 the Gundam franchise. And that's one of the reasons I 133 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.000 love it is that I kind of consider myself a 134 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:27.959 Gundam historian, and I've obsessed over the franchise so much 135 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.120 that I like know all the dates, I know the people, 136 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.399 and like the treaties, and it very much like the 137 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.360 what it's called the Universal Century, which you say in Japanese, 138 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.759 is the main Gundum canon timeline, and then there's a 139 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:47.120 bunch of like alternate you know, like the way Marvel does. 140 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:48.560 Six one six and then other ones. 141 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:51.879 Right, the Universal Century is the one I love the 142 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.920 most and consider myself a historian of like I just 143 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:59.519 I live and breathe this stuff. So coming back to 144 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:05.319 this gun Requiem for Vengeance, you asked about the animation, 145 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:10.120 it's I just think it's bad. It's like very bad 146 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.759 two thousand's video game animation. And in fact, it was 147 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:18.920 made on the Unreal Engine, which I think has started 148 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.560 out as like video game animation engine, and you can 149 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:26.360 just see it like it's it's just cheap in a 150 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.560 way that like characters don't move realistically, like they clip 151 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.080 into like their arms clip into their sides and stuff, 152 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:37.840 and all these kinds of problems that for a video 153 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.799 game like you, you often don't care like you see 154 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:45.039 in video games like whatever. For an animated TV series, 155 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:45.600 I don't. 156 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:46.799 I don't like it at all. 157 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.000 Like I think it's a problem that they use this. 158 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.559 Either it needs to get better or that they need 159 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.720 to not do this. In my opinion. The other thing 160 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.120 about the animation, I just like the faces were like 161 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.799 weirdly glowing and slick. It like seemed like they always 162 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.159 had a sheen of sweat and yeah, like they were 163 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.440 in stressful situations and sweaty, but it was it didn't 164 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:11.600 seem like a realistic sweat sene. 165 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:14.720 Yeah, I think the video game description is very apt. 166 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:16.960 They felt to me very It felt to me very 167 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:19.320 much like a long video game cut scene. 168 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.320 Yeah, I mean it was like the unreal engine is 169 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.519 like four videos, so and interesting that they're using it 170 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:32.080 for television. I'm not I don't want like, I don't 171 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:36.759 want this to be like the animator suck. Yeah, right, 172 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.639 Like they're doing a job and they're working. They were 173 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:42.000 told to work with this technology, and they did it. 174 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.080 I just think the technology is not up to like 175 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:47.200 a television standards of animation. 176 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.320 I think all of that is completely legitimate, and what 177 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:54.600 I'm about to say has nothing to do with the 178 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:59.480 discussion of the artistry of it. And I can completely 179 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:02.799 understand and why people who love anime and love animation 180 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:08.960 hated this. I thought it looked weird and it's far 181 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:12.519 and away the easiest to understand anime I've ever seen, 182 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.519 and for that I loved it. One of the biggest 183 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.000 frustrations that you talked about, like the artistry of the 184 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:23.159 battles Neon Genesis Evangelian, I just didn't understand what was 185 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:27.200 going on. I didn't have a sense of what robot 186 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:29.279 was where, and who was attacking what and what was 187 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.879 happening because it was done in this very impressionistic artistic style. 188 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.360 And it may well be just like my brain. I've 189 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:38.080 always had a brain that doesn't really grock art in 190 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:40.639 a physical way. Like I looked to the Mona Lisa 191 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:42.919 and I was like, it's a woman smiling. I don't 192 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.799 forget why it became the thing it became, and again 193 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:47.399 it because. 194 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.639 I mean, it became what it became. 195 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.559 Like, I think it is a good piece of art, 196 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.879 but largely like because it was stolen, it got a 197 00:10:58.879 --> 00:10:59.720 lot of notoriety. 198 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:01.960 Oh that's possible. I don't want to get into that tangent. 199 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.080 I just mean as an example of people look at 200 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.120 art and tell me all the things they see in it, 201 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:08.879 and I don't doubt them. I don't think they're wrong. 202 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:13.159 I just don't see it. And so for me this 203 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.840 felt like someone's saying, we want to do animation because 204 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:18.759 it's a lot cheaper and easier, especially all the crazy 205 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.639 special effects we're doing, but we're just going to try 206 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.200 and make it as close to reality as we can 207 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.960 with the animation technology that we have right now or 208 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:32.039 that we can afford. And again, I don't know if 209 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.840 it's because I just don't have an artistic mind, or 210 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.519 maybe because I didn't grow up watching anime, Like I 211 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.120 haven't seen most of it, so I just haven't kind 212 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.639 of learned the artistic language of the genre. But for 213 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:45.159 whatever it is, I loved it because it kind of 214 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:46.879 said to me, you don't have to worry about it. 215 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.759 This is just the story is the story, and I 216 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.279 really loved the story of this because really and I'll 217 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:55.440 give a summary of it in a bit, but it's 218 00:11:55.480 --> 00:12:00.679 really its idea of like starting from the perspective of 219 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:04.799 these soldiers and their desire for vengeance in a defeated 220 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.320 situation and are they going to survive? And like it 221 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.600 really does some great things I think with playing with 222 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:12.840 is the protagonist necessarily the hero and drawing the camera 223 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.639 back on that. And for me, because I didn't have 224 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.679 to think about what is the intention, what's the meaning 225 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.639 of the art, it was just like, here's where this 226 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.120 robot is, Here's where that robot is, so you understand 227 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:29.000 why they're saying these things that they're saying. I loved 228 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.960 it me. I totally not what other people like, and 229 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.840 that's fine, but well, okay. 230 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:37.559 I want I agree with you that the mobile suit 231 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:41.919 fights in this are they were the best part of 232 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:47.519 the animation. And I also want to kind of broaden 233 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.720 the scope that in Gundam, like I already said, you know, 234 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:55.440 it's it's more realistic, like treating them as real weapons 235 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.399 of war. The time period that this story takes place 236 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:04.639 in is the is during the first Gundom the original series, 237 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:10.159 and that is also when the gun dams were the 238 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:15.120 least technologically advanced, and so they're more grounded. Like when 239 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.639 you get to future Gundams, they fly around faster and 240 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.159 like do all of the anime things and like spinning 241 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:26.559 and stuff. In this one they are the technologically they 242 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:32.399 are walking tanks, right, And and this Requiem for Vengeance 243 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.559 specifically like taking place on Earth, like because part of 244 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.720 the story fighting takes place in space. You know, they're 245 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.039 like even like they do fly in space, but here 246 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.600 like they they kind of like do rocket jumps, yeah, exactly, 247 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.679 And so the movement of the fighting is all like 248 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:50.039 much more grounded. 249 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.399 Yeah. Literally, Yeah, it felt a lot more realistic in 250 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.240 that kind of a way. I think there's good and 251 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:58.159 bad parts to that for sure that we'll talk about. 252 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.000 So with that, let's talk about the story itself. And again, 253 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.159 I know that there's a much larger story. I'm just 254 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:09.080 gonna give. I'm gonna give my understanding of the story, 255 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:11.840 and let's talk about the story itself and then talk 256 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.840 about it in larger context. So we opened with this 257 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:21.240 group who is piloting a bunch of mobile suits that 258 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:22.919 at first I thought were gonna be Gundams, but I 259 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.000 learned they were called Zakus, and they're doing this on 260 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.320 behalf of this group from outer space who it's described 261 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.120 as the Revolutionary War, and they're fighting a rebellion, as 262 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:39.639 they say, for their independence, and they are all people 263 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.879 from space fighting against Earth's domination, but they're doing it. 264 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.039 Most of this battle takes place in southeastern Europe, primarily 265 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:53.639 in Romania, and then moving southeast towards Russia and the 266 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:58.279 final exit point in Odessa. And immediately part of me 267 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:02.960 was thinking, like, huh, huh. The American Revolution didn't invade 268 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.799 England in order to get its freedom, Like there's something 269 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.960 off here about a group that's all about how we're 270 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.399 fighting for our own freedom, but we're also here fighting 271 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.559 in Earth on Earth, we're invading Earth, and I thought 272 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.559 that was really interesting. But it's about these group of 273 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.840 pilots and they fight some battles and then quickly into 274 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.200 the battle is inserted a mecca that is far more 275 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.639 powerful and far more technologically advanced than theirs. And this 276 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:32.679 is what they describe as a Gundam, and which was 277 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:34.480 kind of threw me a little. It's like, oh, that's interesting, 278 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.159 and they're fighting against the Gundam, and the Gundam is 279 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:40.120 kicking their ass, and then they're kind of looking for 280 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:43.399 survival and they have this whole plot line about rebuilding 281 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.080 two new zechas of the you know, their kind of 282 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.440 version of the Mecca suits, and there's interesting dynamics there. 283 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.039 But they get these two built, and they learn that 284 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:58.399 not only does this other side the enemy, the Federation 285 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.000 or the e f after is referred to have this 286 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.279 one hugely impressive gundam, they also have these other things 287 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.720 called GM's or gyms, which are. 288 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:16.279 It's yeah, it's weird, it's spelled GM. 289 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:17.000 It's just for. 290 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:23.200 Gym, yeah, or gem and and so and and the 291 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.559 gyms are not quite gundams, but are certainly much more 292 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:32.759 powerful than the uh uh that our heroes meccas. There's 293 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.799 more fighting. They're able to take down the gym, but 294 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:40.960 still can't stand up to the Gundam, and a lot 295 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.080 of their friends die. And there's a lot of talk 296 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:48.279 about how our primary protagonist, a woman named Iria Solari 297 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.720 and uh her her kind of buddy and second in command, 298 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.679 Lieutenant Lashan, that they are just filled with anger and 299 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:01.360 sadness and grief about the law of all of their friends, 300 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:04.200 and at one point Lasehan almost is gonna kill the 301 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.039 helpless pilot when he escapes the gym that they've destroyed, 302 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.240 and she gets him to stop, and then there's a 303 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.119 there's a doctor character. There's a lot of discussions about 304 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:15.880 like is there room for mercy in this world of 305 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.720 battle and what's the role of vengeance and things like that, 306 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.039 and our captain, our protagonist, seems to be mostly against 307 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:27.480 the idea of vengeance. We then decide that the best 308 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:31.839 way that we can kind of survive dealing with Gundam 309 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.640 is to steal one of the gyms, because then at 310 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.680 least we can understand the gym technology, because there's only 311 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.119 one Gundam, but they're mass producing these gyms, and the 312 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:42.839 thought is that if they can steal one, then they 313 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.079 can kind of, you know, build their own, but also 314 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.240 understand it, study it, find its weaknesses, hopefully find the 315 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.839 weakness of the Gundam and take them all down. And 316 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:57.160 they try to do that. It fails. As part of 317 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.880 doing that, they infiltrate the enemy base and there's a 318 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.519 kid hanging out with the enemy soldiers and that kid 319 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.960 has a moment with Solari where he basically finds a 320 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.839 watch that she has that's marked with the symbols of 321 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:16.599 the rebellion, the the uh what's the name of them, 322 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:20.160 the xeons as they're called, who again have been presented 323 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.119 to us as the protagonist, but at least design assured 324 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:24.759 that the show's doing a very interesting thing of kind 325 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:30.640 of making you doubt their own things they believe and 326 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.160 the uh and kind of related to this, there've been 327 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.480 uh so back up and so they have this kind 328 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.000 of moment of connection where he maybe figures out that 329 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:43.759 she's a spy but but kind of doesn't turn them in, 330 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.640 or maybe he just like suspects it, but they have 331 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.519 a moment of real human connection. She has a son 332 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.920 back home that she's incredibly worried about and sees the 333 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.599 Sun in him. Get to the last episode where everyone's 334 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.960 trying to scramble to Odessa because basically they're deciding that 335 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.400 this invasion of Earth has not worked at least here 336 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.839 in this sector the Europe and Asia, and they're all 337 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:10.160 retreating back into space through the Port of Odessa, and 338 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.599 we get one more big battle where she realizes that 339 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.920 it's that kid who's piloting the Gundam, which for me 340 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:20.640 was another like oh, like that's where I started to 341 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.599 get a clue of like what the largest story might be. 342 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:24.240 But I'll get into that. I want to just talk 343 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:28.599 about this story itself. She starts to really have empathy 344 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.599 for him and have a conversation with him well, because 345 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.119 she has decided that she is going to sacrifice herself 346 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.400 basically go on a kind of suicide mission so that 347 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.359 she can let everyone else escape. And she like, she 348 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.640 maybe can escape, but probably she's just going to die 349 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.480 with honor because in her words, everyone else has died 350 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:49.599 for her, and in some cases quite literally, like Lashawan 351 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.319 he and his Mecca leap in front of her for 352 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.920 a death blow that would have destroyed her. That's weighing 353 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.960 on her mind. She has these dreams where she sees 354 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.960 all the people who died under her command. But then 355 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.119 during the fight with a Gundam, she starts talking to 356 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:08.279 the kid who's the pilot and trying to get the 357 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.200 kid to realize that this fight is pointless, as she's saying, like, 358 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.279 we just want to go back home, and he's saying, 359 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.640 you all are terrorists. You invited us. If we don't 360 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:18.920 kill you, how do we know you're not gonna do 361 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.799 it again? And and she kind of just doesn't even 362 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:23.519 get into that. She's saying, no, just let us go, 363 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.480 let us go. He has a chance to deliver a 364 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:29.880 death blow. He doesn't. He kind of saves her life, 365 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.799 and then she's kind of like getting up to thank 366 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:36.640 him and keep talking. Another one of the Xeon meccas 367 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.359 find finds them in this position where that Gundam is 368 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.400 now kind of defenseless and destroys it, killing the kid, 369 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.799 and she's kind of horrified and outraged about it. And 370 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.119 then we get to his epilogue, which from what I've read, 371 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.119 is very controversial and I have some thoughts on it, 372 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.440 where she basically says that the Xeons have all left 373 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.839 Europe and Asia, that the only real fighting left is 374 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.480 in Africa, where it's basically kind of the remnants of 375 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.559 all these other groups that are left there. They're called 376 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.519 the remnants, and that mostly they're just out for vengeance 377 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.519 and mostly they're just fighting to avenge those who have died. 378 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.000 And she had been right up to the killing of 379 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.319 that kid, very much like maybe we shouldn't fight, maybe 380 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.720 we shouldn't fight to protect the kids, and she gives 381 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:32.119 this speech which is fundamentally contradictory because she said part 382 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.960 of what she realizes. She's horrified that the war has 383 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.440 gotten to the point that kids are being forced to fight, 384 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.000 and that the child soldiers, but she can't make the 385 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.279 leap of realizing that it's kind of like that her 386 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.119 side continuing the war is part of what's forcing that 387 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.160 to happen. She is like, no, this side is using 388 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.960 child soldiers. That has to stop, so we need to 389 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.400 destroy all of them, which means continuing to fight against 390 00:21:55.400 --> 00:22:00.720 the child soldiers. And that's where it ends. And m hm. 391 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:02.480 It was one of those things where I was like, 392 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.160 either the writers are utterly brilliant and are really asking 393 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.640 the audience to do their own work in recognizing that 394 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.960 protagonist is not the good guy here and that's much 395 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.359 more complicated than the protagonist thinks, or it's incredibly bad 396 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.200 writing that doesn't realize all the way self contradictory. I 397 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.079 chose to believe it's more of the first, but yeah, 398 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:34.359 just to disagree, Yeah. 399 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.200 And I just want to know that was a good 400 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.920 That was a good summary. I want to add part 401 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:42.000