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Speaker 2: Listening to Destination Impact with Zach and JB on the
PW Torch part of the daily cast lineup. JB, what
is up?
Speaker 3: Not much that much, Zach. Just getting into the heart
of summer around here, so you know, Lee Wrestling starts
heating up a little bit as well too. We're on
the road to Lockdown right now, so excited to talk
about Impact this week.
Speaker 2: It would be nice if wrestling was as hot as
it is physically outside.
Speaker 3: It's like the build too. Yeah, I mean, like I said,
not like a big WDV guy, but from what ID
it was this all the wait show, So it's the build.
The summer slim isn't the strongest this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple of things in there, but yeah,
it's I don't know, there's there's I don't know, we
could definitely hit on that a little bit.
Speaker 3: Show talk about it.
Speaker 2: So absolutely so impact this week. I gotta be honest,
there was a lot in the show that Drew drove
me absolutely crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hits and misses. I have like three hits
and I don't even like seven or man NB eight
misses maybe eight or this is so that tells you anything? Yeah, well, what.
Speaker 2: Was your biggest miss this week?
Speaker 3: Let's see, just going through my list, what was the
most offensive of Yes, I guess maybe not the most
offensive necessarily, but obviously the biggest tangle. I really didn't
like the Casey Navarro Nick Neammath interaction this week. I
thought it kind of made Navarrow look a little bit
like a MOBI read my head, so this is I think,
I said, MOPI Casey Navarro gets lam based by Nick Nammath. Uh.
It really wasn't my favorite. Obviously, I'm happy that Navarro
was being elevated, but I don't want it to be
to the point of elevating so he looks like a
like a stooge in front of Nicknamath, who him fine with,
But I don't think maybe he has the value TNA
thinks he has, although I just saw it right before
the show started. TEENA did like the best ratings they
haven't quite some time on the last week's show, but
aw is ready to hugely up this week too, so
it's kind of they close to like eight hundred thousand
this week, So it seems like wrestling ratings are kind
of up across the board. That's sure what SmackDown's been doing.
And obviously it's kind of hard to judge raw because
it's on streaming, so but yeah, that that interested me.
But I think sometimes maybe ten a little too much
value on Nick Demuth relative to what he's done in
his career. I think it kind of showed a little
bit too much this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked like the Case Navarro promo once he
was actually once he actually started cutting a promo, I
thought it was pretty good. But yeah, like Nick Nemeth
is is really not doing it for me, I guess
I will say I thought it was significantly better and
more serious feeling without Ryan Nemmouth out there obviously, so
that was refreshing.
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm afraid they can't keep I think
I saw the match stay out this week is is
Ryan Nemess in that match too, which it looks like,
you know, the most TNA match you can imagine they
have schedules for this date man tag.
Speaker 2: So yeah, as soon as you get used to not
seeing him, then he and he comes slipping down. Ye
the rap there, But yeah, I mean, I feel like
what you're saying, though, it's it's kind of for a
world title program. It's kind of in a weird place.
And I guess if we're about to elevate Navarro, I
like that, but I mean, I don't know. It doesn't
seem like we're there yet, so I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like this is just kind of a
one off and a short build at that, so you know,
I mean, I hope.
Speaker 2: So do you think he just beats him in lockdown
and then that's it?
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, probably just beats him at lockdown. I
beat It's TNA, so it's definitely possible they continue, But
then I don't I don't think they're going to happen.
I will take it off Memathi this point, so I
don't know if I want Memath to go over tomorrow
like two or three times either. I don't know if
that's any better so yeah, so it's a bit of
a conundrum. But I mean, if they if he's elevated
in five, but they have to make sure he keeps
that momentum, which is I think a little hard to do,
just because the tears are that clearly defined in my opinion,
in DNA right now, as far as you know who's
on what level.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and there was a lot of issues with
kind of like everyone there building up this week. I was,
you know, obviously I get trying to keep people strong,
but I really don't understand what's going on with like
with the system and Ricky Soso losing to bear Bronson.
I mean, I know you can say it was due
to you know, interference, and there's another match also, the
Fabian Einer. Obviously I will go one by one here,
but I was most offended by Ricky Soso losing to
Bear Bronson because it still felt clean to me. I
know that there was the interference, but it still felt
clean to me, and I was just I was kind
of shocked, like I was like, oh my gosh, what
are we doing here? And that's his first DNA loss.
Speaker 3: To That's that's not my hits and missus. It's my
misses as well, so well not even just so, bar
Bronson also threatening to kill Ricky Sosa in the different promo,
which you know is being a Wade hates that and
I'm certainly on the same page with him there, and
then defeating him in a match that's that's the very
same night. So yeah, as I think I wrote, like,
you know, stop with these little IQ promos about killing someone,
and I don't care if there's a distraction finish. You
don't have Bear Bronson be the one defeating Ricky Sosa
at this point early on Sosa's run. If you're going
to have member of the System defeats Sosa, have it
be someone a little bit more credible, like Cedric Alexander
or Eddie Edwards. So yeah, I just feel like they
really kind of ncapped Sosa unnecessarily here. You could have
him lose, but let's Kara Brunton's pretty low on the
totem pole. I don't know if that's the best movie,
and I get the distraction angle is involved, but hap
it just to be do a more credible wrestler regardless
because that image is still going to be there.
Speaker 2: So and then Leon Slater like wasn't out there at
all during that to offset Brian Myers, but then later
they so I thought he wasn't going to be on
the show at all. Then he comes out at the
end there, you know, I just like you said, I
just I don't think Baron Bronson is the right guy.
I mean, they just then they just beat them in
a tag match last week. So this is just it
feels like very fifty fifty booking, which is kind of
like a kind of been an epidemic. I mean, I
know it's been an epidemic in all of wrestling, specifically
in ww and therefore I guess TNA, but man, it
feels like it's all over the place in TNA right now,
and it's really to me, it's detracting, Like it feels
like they're cutting cutting the legs out from underneath a
lot of these guys. And and you know, I know
Ricky Sosa is really popular, and I know he can
definitely lose. I don't have any problem with him losing,
but I think Eddie at this point, Eddie Edwards would
have made more sense to me in this situation for sure.
And I even get but like I said, I get
building Bear Bronson if you kind of want to do that,
but I just I don't think we are twenty of
your top young acts as the guy to beat him
too here. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, totally totally agree. Just you gotta be a
little smarter booking than that. I mean, there's no reason
to do that. You definitely could have had something, even,
like I said, even Cider g Alexander, which I know
he's in a different few, but he's more credible as
far as the singles act at this point. So have
you know he he get done it, but yeah, Brian
Myers or Bear Bruns and he just isn't it at
this point.
Speaker 1: So just a reminder. You can reach us at Wade
Keller post Show at gmail dot com if you're interested
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Speaker 2: And it's like every single system match and sort disqualification
or interference. Is that a I mean, I don't know
if that's a fact, but is that a real thing?
Speaker 3: It might? Yeah, I mean I can't you know I
don't have it.
Speaker 2: No, you don't have to, don't even look.
Speaker 3: But anecdotally, if we're just if I'm looking back at
through my own memory, yeah, I mean I can't think
of a time in the recent memory it hasn't been
the case. So but it kind of reminds me of
Likely Blood really to mid Bloodlining several years back, where
it was like, yeah, the story was good, but I
mean it would be like like I don't really look
forward to the actual matches because I just I know
what it is. It's a lot of it's gonna be
a lot of you know, chinery going on, which isn't
my preferred type of wrestling, so what you know, I
get it, but just not my thing. It might be
for some people. It was definitely kind of more episodic storytelling,
which I definitely get to some people like, but this
isn't this is even close to that level regardless with
the system, So I don't think there's any justification for
that there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, why are they keeping the system strong
right now? I mean, like they in the same episode,
it felt like they were talking or telling the story
of them struggling and then and I thought that I
thought that's where this was going, and they were going
to kind of and which is I don't want to
see two factions going down the struggle storyline, which with
Order four that's obviously happening there too, But yeah, it
felt like they were going through the struggle storyline. And
then you know, they took the Night on Impact this week,
so it felt like they just like immediately threw that
away and they beat Rickey Sosa to them, and then
you know, we were both pretty sure. I mean, I felt,
I don't know, I felt like it was I would
have bet on it if I bet on things that
Fabian Eightner was going to win the X Division title
this week, but it didn't happen and they had.
Speaker 3: I totally don't get that. Yeah, I totally don't get
that either. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a great match, Like I thought they were
like working a great match, and then all of a sudden,
here we go, it's like the system's interference happened, and
then it was over, and I was just like, damn, dude,
like this is really how we're doing it, And like thought,
I felt like I've said over the last week or
two that I felt like baby an Eightner was really
like motivated to deliver every time he was on TV,
and he definitely did again here and and he just lost.
And I'm just like I was shocked. So yeah, tell me,
tell me what you think about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another miss I had is that, you know,
you given this great debut, you show him strong, and
you build your building him consistently since his debut. Then
you have him lose his uh, you know, his Tinical
ex Division title match against Alexander, you know, an impact.
You know, I personally think Alexander probably should have lost
the title that Slammiversary, but I figured that maybe they'd
want to, you know, build to maybe a singles match
with Eichner and that's when they would put the title
on him rather than a multi person gimmick match to
give him, you know, kind of the proper moment. But
then they have him losing a singles match. So it's like,
you know, once again, had social laws tonight. So it's
like teenates almost allergic to elevating their debuting wrestlers, moving
younger talent up the card at the right pace. And
that's a bit of a problem that we're having right now,
is just that no one is able to advance, and
then they don't strike while they aren't hot, So then
when it's time to maybe move someone, they've definitely they've
cooled them down and maybe they're not at the strongest
point to be moved up the card. And you know,
I wrote kind of in the same vein when we've
talked about this last three weeks, there was was there?
There was not a mention again of Huhan Nation this week, right,
So it's been what three weeks now since since Slammiversary,
not one even single mention of who Nation's kind of
anti climatic pay per view debut. So it makes me
wonder is even like signed with the company. H It
just seems like inexcusable. It goes so long without even
mentioning them, because, like you said, if you don't watch
special events, you have no idea he's what the company
over a month almost a month period at this point.
So that's just kind of another example of not move
potentially moving someone up the card. But I don't know
your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So on I agner they he lost his debut
match to Eddie Edwards with Shenanigans, and then he didn't win.
He didn't win Ultimate X, and then there might have
been a tag team match where he was in it.
I don't know if he won. He might have one win.
But yeah, it's been been tough sledding for him, and
I thought this was a good time for it. But yeah,
who was the other the other person you.
Speaker 3: Spoke just oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that was buried in
the notes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like.
Speaker 3: Impact proper, he hasn't been mentioned once. So it makes
me wonder if he's even scientifically signed with the company. Otherwise,
why would you go, why would you bother to beat
him and just not even mention it, you know, not
even like vignette build him up or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's there's no way he just came in
for a payday, because I'm sure it wasn't that good
of a payday just to come out there lose like
a dope and then that's it. That's your TNA run.
Like maybe he got hurt. I mean I don't know.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, maybe that, but even then, you feel like
you mentioned that that he's with the company in some capacity,
you know, just like you because people who are watching
those events saw that happen. At least they're like Okay,
who's this And the next time he comes around, they're like,
wasn't the guy that did a cup of coffee? And
then we didn't see him again for months what have you.
So it's a very odd situation there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then of course they wouldn't possibly use the
injury report to ta give us any information on that.
It's just now it's basically a Nick Nemus segment, which
was kind of maddening in itself.
Speaker 3: Now, so yeah, the injury reports lost any relevance whatsoever.
It's kind of a joke. So yeah, I don't really
pay much mind to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very I mean I kind of thought
like this was the week that Uhan Nation might get
a reference with the order for in ring.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Second, but then it just was I mean I don't
even know what that was honestly that we were working
you go ahead.
Speaker 3: God, Yeah, so you just let lay it out, Yeah we.
Speaker 2: Can, okay, So yeah, I mean we we talked about it,
but yeah, like you you talked about last week not
wanting to see mustaf Ali kind of dragged down into
lower level storylines, and this feels like as low level
storyline as basically possible, Like I mean, I get that
he's kind of, I guess, playing a character that's supposed
to be I mean, making fun of certain people of
the past. But I mean, I don't know, man, this
feels like exactly what we were afraid of basically. I mean,
at least they did announce that they're going to have
a challenger, although even the way that they're setting up
the challenger for the international title is is absurd basically
to me.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I mean, so you have him stuff Ali.
He's one of, you know, the better talents in recent DNA.
So he's been dragged down by or we've discussed in
Order for for for quite some time now. So I
was optimistic that maybe with the recent discent between Ali
and the faction you know that he was, he was
gonna dump them and go kind of as a pure
singles act. But instead, the transformational addition of Mila Moore,
who honestly I'm not even really that familiar with and
I don't think the audience is particularly excited, is not
gonna do not doing much for looking to add credibility
to Ali or add entreat to Order four. In general,
you know, it was beyond underwhelming, and I'm pretty sure
majority of the fan base would not get it out
of excitement from from from this kind of you know,
this decision. So I'm really not sure what the point
of this was. It was, yeah, waste of time, honestly,
and more isn't going to do anything to improve the
act if it's already dragged down too long and this
is going to extend it, I'm not sure this is
the jolt in the arm that it needed to make
that work.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't know what I was expecting when
he was about to announce a new member and then
it would just and I'm not even familiar with my
own more at all, so it was the first time
I can recall seeing her, So it was kind of
a shock to me, but also a shock like in
a bad way, like where I'd just groaned and was like,
oh man, like where are we going with this? And
maybe the the wrestlers backstage are going to vote on
Nuhan Nation being his opponent. I guess, I hope so
at this point, just so he's not just disappeared off
the base of the earth after one appearance, doesn't feel
like that's like where we're going, because you know, I
would have thought that at least we would get one
dignette through this entire three or four weeks that it's been.
I would have thought we would have seen something if
that was still happening. So I really just don't know
what to think about that, But yeah, it was it
felt very like WW derivative with this missed off Ali stuff.
And I mean, I guess at least Tasha Steeles was
wasn't like I mean, she was really hamming up the
like unhappy facials. So I think that's a good thing
that maybe it won't get drawn out too long and
we'll get to whatever the next step of this storyline is,
and maybe him losing that title will come soon and
we can if that's a catalyst to get him away
from this. Although I gotta be honest with them, they're
just now introducing Mayam more to it feels like it's
at least going to continue for a little while. Maybe
the new Faction is just going to be like Agent
zero and mayamor with Ali for a little while until
they bail on him too. I guess I assume this
is all leading to everyone bailing on must off Ali ultimately.
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many.
Speaker 3: You're going to take the Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like why, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, no one cares about the other act, so what
is that? It doesn't do anything Fraley, which he should
be at the major priority here.
Speaker 2: So I mean, it almost feels like he's just writing
his own stuff and they're just like, yeah, just just
go with it. Here are your people to play with,
and he's like okay, Like I don't know. It just
feels so strange that this is what he would be
doing when he's probably in the ring is probably one
of their probably their best wrestler. I mean, I don't
know for sure, but I mean there's some good ones,
but just all around potential talent, like he could certainly
be at a higher level, and this feels like we're exchanging,
Like it seems like he's moved down the card over
the last two or three months.
Speaker 3: Yeah, significantly agreed, which is the opposite what should be happening.
And it's almost feels like John Moxley with the Death Riders,
except with much less talent across, so it doesn't work
quite as well. When you have the level of talent
of you know, the great Hands in Mile of War
or whatever you have in that I thought Justa's she's
pretty good, but you know, I don't think she's going
to save the act by any means.
Speaker 4: So hey everyone, longtime PW Torch commist Sean radikin here
to let you know I've rebamped and renewed the Raticant
Worldwide podcast for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive.
Every week, I break down four or five of the
biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis,
providing insight that helps you understand the story better or
see it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there?
Then I bring on a special guest for the second
half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone
else who works in the business. Other times it's a
guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view out
a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have
included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my
areas of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I
often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch,
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don't just cover the new I don't just riff on
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Speaker 2: And it might be good for the Knockout Division for
her to get out of this and just be as singles,
you know, or something. And she probably has I can
kind of fill some babyface potential here, so you know,
maybe just like she is, like, she could probably have
some potential even to challenge a heel champion, you know,
like Zion Brookside for for that title. You know, even
if it's unsuccessful. I could definitely see her as a
babyface kind of like you know, I guess you wouldn't.
It wouldn't be necessarily be an underdog if it's Zirebrookside,
because it's hard to book Zion Brookside against like an underdog,
I would say. But yeah, I could definitely see some
potential with Tasha Steele's kind of breaking out a little
more into the singles knockout division, and that might be
a good thing. So if this is leading to people
getting separated here, that's good. But it feels like we're
not like Ali is not heading in a good place
like the rest of them might benefit from it. It
doesn't feel like he's going to benefit from this really,
no matter which way it's going. So I don't know
what to say about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed, Whether you know he kind of turns on
them or are they abandoned him? Either way, I don't
see how it does much for him. So what t
should he as we mentioned, you know, like you said,
maybe maybe Tosh the deals betef it's slightly, but honestly,
i'll should be the priority here.
Speaker 2: So absolutely, I mean what is with I mean it
just it feels like there is becoming some sort of
emphasis of like not putting people like the younger people
or the people that could be the next generation. I'm
not really considering Ali necessarily young.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but young per se, but he's fresh least I
guess you'd.
Speaker 2: Say, yeah exactly. And that was the of the note
I wrote, was why are they not treating the fresh
talent very well? And like with all this fifty booking.
I mean, I just it just seems strange that they're not,
like super getting behind anyone on the card right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed, It's like they want to eat their cake
and have it too because they want to feature these
young people, but they're not willing to put in the
work or you know, make the ultimate decision to let
them advance and then you know, really move up the
card as opposed to just kind of being in the
mix but never quite getting over the hump. None of
these guys ever seemed to be really getting fully over
the hump, including Leon Slater, which obviously we know there's
extenuating circumstances there, but I mean, you got to look
at that too, like Santana finally did it, it feels like
they kind of even botch that. So yeah, it's just
like way too much reliance and guys like Moose and
Eddie Edwards and the Hardy's and you know, those kind
of nick Nabath even to a certain extent, and you know,
a lot look, those guys are fine, but it's like, man,
there's not a lot of years left with some of
those guys, so you're gonna be left with not much,
you know, you're your top guys are shooting. Obviously, you
always typically tend to have to go to eight W
or wwe I have given the ultimate choice.
Speaker 2: So I mean, it feels like there could possibly be
a case of like a lot of these older guys
not one to put over the young the young generation.
I mean, I hate to say that or even accuse that,
because I you know, I'm not, I'm a no. One,
but it kind of feels that way sometimes when no
one is really I mean, the people who are winning
the most and going over the most is are just
the people that have been around forever. I mean, maybe
that's to reward them for being there. I mean, and
I get that too, but I do think it's kind
of weird that we're going It's like we're going into
a season that started with like highlighting the young guys,
and then quickly a week or two later, it was like,
well all of them lost this week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ly too, and maybe do a better job of
spreading it out with that's the decision you're going to
make too much apparently obvious.
Speaker 2: Uh. Final thought on Fabian Nightmer and the ex Division title,
do you still think he's the next ex Division champion?
After Cedric or do you think where do you are
we still thinking that? Or is it going to go
somewhere else? Now?
Speaker 3: It kind of feels like it might be Ricky Soson
now if you're kind of developments of last week. Yeah,
which is fine too, but just like, what is what's
Eichner going to do now? In the meantime, He's already
kind of basically lost his first real main feud, and
you know it was a mid card feed to begin with,
So where does he go? But where does that recent
investment go moving forward?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty concerning. I guess that's why I was
hoping it would just go ahead and to happen, because
it feels like he's going to get lost in the shuffle.
Although I mean, it does look like we are going
to maybe get this like faction warfare situation that I
think I talked about the very first episode. We did, mean,
it kind of looked like they were leading to something
with that with Moose, but then he kind of I
guess he beat Eddie and now he's done with him.
So now it's looking like we might still get some
sort of like six man at least tag match, like
some sort of faction warfare kind of situation.
Speaker 3: Lockdown is a multi man like, oh that's right match, right,
So it has to I mean, have to be building
to that. I would imagine I keep forgetting that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So yeah, I forget that Lockdown like that that
in it doesn't like que in my mind that that
is a hint that it's a stipulation match.
Speaker 3: It's not like Blood and God's or War Games. You know,
it doesn't, you know, because it kind of gets overlooked
to because they haven't done it in a while.
Speaker 2: So is lockdown just like I mean, I'm actually I'm sorry,
I'm actually forgetting the style of match that it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean Lockdown from what I recall is
kind of I guess you'd say it's like, you know,
standard cage rules when my pinfall submission escaping depending on
depending on the year, I think. And then there's like
a few specialty rules. So it's essentially Teenay's version of
war Games SI war Games mechanics. So they have like
a staggered entry. Two wrestlers begin the match after five minutes,
and other restler enters the ring, with new entrance alternating
from each team every two minutes. The roof. It's like
a large cage roof, so there's various weapons hanging from
the roof and all the competitors. Once all the competitors
have entered the match, and so pinfalls. I believe pinfalls
and submissions are legal until the roof roof is locked
in place, and once everyone is inside, the weapon usage
is authorized. Then the matches one via pin faller submission.
So you know, essentially essentially like war games with specialized weapons.
I guess, so not not too much different.
Speaker 2: And how many people are in it.
Speaker 3: Typically changed from year to years, but if I have to,
I'll look it up to see because been a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, any idea who else would be aligning with this?
Speaker 3: With a team to five on five? Okay, so what's Yeah,
it's obviously the system, so that's where that's four guys
right three four, Yeah, it's four guys right there. And
then okay, then maybe they add one more, maybe they
add like a Francis, because then Elijah it's gonna may
be be and Moose's side, it seems after this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you get Moose Elijah the heart ease
maybe like another person Hm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they were all kind of mixing it
up last week to some degrees. Yeah, So there's a
lot going on there. It feels like the system or
are everywhere as always and yeah, I mean I I
to me, it's not justice if if all the babyfaces
go over and that's like the way and every time
like they lose, the show ends with them like you know,
sitting the crowd home happy with celebrations and stuff, and
I'm like, man, yeah, but they lost every time, and
so I feel like that's been the ending of impact
a lot of times lately. Is like trying to make
up for you know, all of these top stars losing
by making them celebrate after you knows, successfully thwarting a beatdown. Basically.
I just I think that that. I think there's definitely
some some things I'm worried about as far as like
the creative team right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's the Jeff jareded booking style that
you've seen in a Cross Points wrestler. They're just overbooked
stuff where just too much is going on. I mean,
you need to be a little bit more focused, in
my opinion, he said, for sure.
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Speaker 2: I kind of mentioned Brooksides our Brookside. They actually opened
the show with like a recap of her successfully defending
the title against Laying Lead last week, but then like
the follow up was a backstage segment where she interrupted
a Elena Black promo and they teased a feud there,
So I thought that was really stranger, and also the
fact that Elena Black definitely outshined Zion brooks Side in
the segment and they're both heels. I thought that was
kind of I mean, I just it makes me question
our whole choice of Elena Black winning the tournament, because
I don't I don't know if they're gonna go with
this match instead, and maybe Marsha is gonna win it
or something. But what were your thoughts on that? On
the follow up to the match last week, the Knockouts
Championship match and just that tease with Elena Black and
Zion Brooks side.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I had the same thoughts as you.
So it's funny because it was both a hit and
missed for me in the sense that the hit was
a Lena Black's heel promo. I thought she's been doing
a pretty good job of staying simple and staying in
orlane a traditional heel. You know, they're simple and arrogantly
to the point, as they should be. She established that
Weddy should chew is legitimate, there's respect there for the
Knockouts TV Turtle Tournament match next week, while also simultaneously
dismissing Shoe is a true threat. And then she acknowledged
their history without going too deep and overexplaining or being
met about it. You know, about their their history and
that xt So I really liked that basicness of her promo,
but the miss for me was Elena Black going face
and Zi Brookside. So both of these women are clearly hells.
So why does Tina Field the need to have Elena
give a face promo in essence against brooks Head and
saying that Brookside is jealous of her because she's everything
that Zaya can never be. It's not even like entirely
sure what that means. And then this is gonna make
the fans either side with Black, probably having Black overbrooks
Side and then obviously giving them mixed emotions about you know,
what's a heel who they should who's a heel who
they should root for? Ultimately, and like you said, this
would be a weird decision to actually go to because
they're both just clearly heals. There's not even a lot
of ambiguity in their character at this point, so you know,
it would mean an odd an odd odd pairing. I
think I'm not really sure how the build up that
few would really work overall, in my opinion.
Speaker 2: So so do you think that that does pose issues
for Elena Black in the in the tournament for the
TV Knockout TV title.
Speaker 3: It almost feels like, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, are you still picking her?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Now, I kind of agreed, almost feel
almost the feeling that brooks Side is a bit of
a coster at some point in the tournament almost kind
of deal at this point that that's kind of where
I'm leaning, which isn't definitely is it wouldn't be my
preferred choice, but that almost just kind of feels like
where it's going right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a crazy decision because, like you said, Elena
Black is like one of the i mean low key
like one of the better heels on the show, just
kind of like a classic wrestling heel, and that's gonna
instantly turn her babyface even that, like not only would
the action just kind of build sympathy for her, but
also she's gonna beat her on the mic too, So
it's a it's really strange decisions there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I just I don't think that's playing to
either person's strength through I mean, maybe whose sense its
playing to Elena's Black strength, And it's not putting her
in the best position either, because she wants to get booged.
I mean, you want her against the classic face that's
going to get the crowd behind them, it's not really
helping either character.
Speaker 2: Did you have any thoughts on the on the TV
tournament TV Title Tournament this week?
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a couple observations, and neither of them are
particularly good. Honestly. Is that the you know, like I said,
I don't hate the Elegance brand in the sense of
Heather and M by Elegance, I think there's something there,
but in their current form, I don't love them sweeping
the first round or that I gots a TV title tournament,
you know, just the way they're currently presented, just isn't
that critical credible to me? And I don't necessarily think
they should be getting wins in the first round over
acts like qualified acts, particularly like Rosemary, And I did
think M was kind of rather clunky intermatch against Rosemary
this week in my personal opinion, So I wasn't a
fan of that direction entirely. And then secondarily the Tahal
t Ahl going over Harley Hudson. While I am a
big fan of Hale in her provement throughout her XT run,
but at this point she's she's an NXT signed wrestler.
Hudson's assigned knockout has a good amount of potential. This
seems like a good, low risk opportunity to put the
homegrown TENA talent over an established but not critical NXT wrestler,
and they still wouldn't pull the trigger on it once again,
So I don't know what that says about, you know,
TNA acts moving forward, and once again, I think it
hurts the overall credibility relative to a much smaller ww
NXT brand, you know, in the ww ecosystem. So I
wasn't really a big fan of that direction. Well, I
do like t a l. I just don't think it's
it's what's best or more prudent for TNA moving forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get what you're saying about the the clunkiness
of m BI Elegance, but she also did have some
I mean, I thought she looked pretty good, and you know,
if it wasn't all of the Elegance nonsense, I feel
like there is definitely something there with both of the
Elegance brand tag team.
Speaker 3: And I do agree, but with with it, you know,
it's it is there right now, So I just don't
think you can overlook that it is. Yeah, So it's
like I totally agree, but you got to you got
to strip that away from them before you start treating incredibly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know how good it it, Like
does the the Knockouts tag titles to have Ali and
Rosemary both lose to the people they just beat for
the tag titles at Slam Aniversary, like I would have
booked it actually the exact opposite, which that's basically what
you're saying. And I, yeah, I just so that is
definitely something I was like questionable. I thought it was
very questionable. And then of course Ray Holt with with
his I guess now obligatory elegance brand over the top stuff,
and so I had to we had to get that
as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, it's like Tim Corey Graves, you
know when he just you know, he the years but
or but also too it's too cute by half. I
also do hate when they do tournaments like that and
they just happen to get matched up with, you know,
people as they were feeding before previously, like in the
first round. That's not how tournaments are actually structured. If
you're treating it as a legitimate sport, it's you know,
it's you should be completely random or they do like
seating or something like that, if you're gonna do you know,
get really down to Granulther. But just it always, it's always,
you know, and a lot of a lot of companies
are going through this. They always end up few, you know,
having we were futing with currently it just happens to be,
you know, the first round matchup, which is too cute
by choice for me.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I mean, I guess they're just gonna
feud for the tag titles forever because there's definitely been
no talk of the tag titles or any set up
of anyone else.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't even exist in DNA. I don't knock out
the division. It just doesn't make sense right now. It's
two teams and they just but it's not a pay
per view time. I just completely lost until they have
to have a match on a pay per view and
there's no built to it, nor really really cares.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and uh for the other match, Uh, I
figured the hell would win the first round. It just
it felt like that was the way they were going
with it. I do see something in Harley Hudson, something
something like makes me cringe about her and something makes
me interested in her. I really don't. It's like she
kind of but she's intriguing, so so there is something
definitely there. Her hair, I think is not the paintness necessarily,
but just that it's like so solid and doesn't really move.
And she she moves a lot, but her hair seems
to never move. But she's got impressive strength. And and
I thought they had a pretty good match. I assume
THEA Hill's, you know, losing to Indie next week, so
r I don't know if that's for sure next week
or not. They might have announced that. I'm not hunter sure,
but that's the next round for them. But overall, yeah,
I kind I get what you're saying, because Harley Hudson
seems like somebody who definitely has like a place in
the TNA Knockouts division going forward, and so you might
want to give her a little more credibility here. And
the Hill wouldn't have lost anything in the grand scheme
by losing to Hudson here, whereas Hudson would have definitely
gained a lot winnings, So even that one match would
have kind of been a significant thing for Hudson to
claim going forward in promos or whatever.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and Harley Hudson kind of revives me. I
don't know if there's a good comparison, but from a
new formative a Ruby Soho kind of just kind of
has that unique kind of yeah whichould look which is
you know, you know, breaks from the traditional knockouts or
Diva's you know, old Diva's formula, which which I do
like to see that sometimes just different mixes in.
Speaker 2: For sure. I am definitely eager to see where she goes.
Preferably for me, she's got to be a heel though
I could see crowds getting into her, but I feel
like she's going to be more effective as a heel personally.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So, speaking of tag titles, we didn't think, I mean,
I guess. I mean, it's like a week of going
back to other older things. So the Hardy is just
randomly invited by way of like hologram or holochron whenever
it was invited the righteous to the compound. So we
are actually getting that when we were kind of like
happy that that didn't happen before, and I was kind
of shocked it didn't happen, So it actually is happening.
And it kind of felt like they randomly went back
to this without any any build or any warning, ye,
for the last few weeks, so it's any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's why it's also another myss for me.
I'm what have the Righteous done since losing to the
Hardy's last that would justify a title rematch? If anything?
Haven't they only lost since since that point? So I'm
very confused. It feels like they've been heavily delegitimized over
the last few weeks and now they're planning on reigniting
that few just kind of randomly, like you said, out
of nowhere. So you know, if it's if this is
the moment that the Righteous are going to take the
Hearty titles off the Hearty, it seems like the worst
way possible they could have gone about building to it.
And that's just you know, in my opinion. But yeah,
that was it was a miss for me this week
as well. And also the Hardy Compound, you know whatever,
I mean. You know, we've done a lot of goofy
stuff already some people. You know, the mileage is going
to vary with the Wicked Garden match. Now we're going
to the Hardy Compound, which feels has done it about
you know, sixty times throughout TEENA history at this point,
so it's kind of the uniqueness is definitely run off there,
and like you said, like I said, it just feels
like the righteous fab there's no reason they should be
getting a title shot, and it just it felt like
they had kind of moved on, honestly, and then it's
completely like, oh, we don't have anything else because there's
two tag teams, so we're gonna do something else, kind
of goofy with cinematic stuff again. So I don't know
that that's just my personal take on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if like that, did they announce
that the tag titles were on the on the line
and in this the thing. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't think they specifically mentioned so, but I mean,
I gotta imagine it's leading there some capacity if it's
if it's not if they don't, you know, sometimes they
just mentioned on the actual TV show too, they don't
mention it, you know, any build up to until the
actual night of done that a couple of times recently.
I don't think they specifically mentioned, but I guess I
had just made that assumption.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I wonder if, like I mean,
this probably isn't going to happen. But it almost feels
like they were so excited to see that, we're almost
leading to some sort of like broken faction where I mean,
I don't know, I guess that would be just beyond insanity.
But I just don't know what If they they're not
going to win the tag titles, I don't know why
we're going back to it, especially like without any bills.
So so those strange strange stuff there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed, Agreed, Yeah, I don't entirely know where they're going.
Like you said, if they're not going to win the titles,
you're going to go back to it again, and yes,
like at the expense of building up anything else for
the for the future. Then it seems like you're just
treading water at that point too.
Speaker 2: So so the only way you can get tag title
match is either by begging Darya Ray or by like
some sort of magic I guess envelope. I don't know
exactly what it even was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one actually earned the tag title match because
there's like three teams, so it's just by Hooker to
find a way to get in there.
Speaker 2: With the Hardies, the only team that really has a
claim to get a shot at the tag titles right
now is Sosa and Slater because they've beat the former
champion and former uh challengers.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's why I thought they were.
Speaker 2: And I would still root for that.
Speaker 3: That's where I thought they were headed. But then this
week's just complete curve all. It feels like, so, yeah,
get involved again, but the compound seems like it's not
letting itself to that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that that just that is the
weirdest thing about this week. They kind of felt like
things were starting to go in a certain direction. I
was like, Okay, I can kind of see where we're
going with this, and and there's a couple of those
I guess you can, but OUCH like it just it
kind of went with sideways there with with with a
lot of the decisions, with Sosa losing uh you know,
Slater kind of not being mentioned much at all, and
also you know, yeah, I don't know, it's just it's
it's strange how they're doing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't really have an explanation for Like you said,
it's like we took you know, one step forward and
two steps back this week, which is a little disheartening.
But it's just kind of in the direction lately.
Speaker 2: So so you you informed me speaking of tag teams,
and I wasn't super familiar with them, but Center and
Saint was a tag team with TNA that was granted
their release this week. What are your thoughts on them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I thought they definitely had potential. They
obviously haven't been used very much at all in the
last few months, if at all, I'm not sure, but
they were initially paired with Josh Alexander is the Northern
Armory and then they were moved over to Eric Young
and they were here with him as well, and I
thought they definitely had potential. I think, you know, we
texted about it, but definitely more than the Great Hands did,
and particularly such a thin TNA Men's tag division, I
definitely thought, you know, there was a place for them.
So it's kind of you know, I guess it makes
sense with with Eric Young requesting his release, they were
pretty closely aligned with him, so you know, I guess
kind of the writing was on the wall there and
they hadn't featured much quite a few months, but I
definitely thought there was more they could have tried to
do with them. It definitely wouldn't have hurt, like as
I mentioned, in such a thin tag division. You know,
I definitely would have given them at least a chance
at a push to see where they could have ended up.
But I guess it wasn't to be, which, you know,
not the biggest deal in the world, but you know,
just a little little things like that where it's like,
you know, where you're making the investments to grow, it
seems like it can be lacking at times in this
you know, current ten a creative direction.
Speaker 2: So would you rank that, you would rank them higher
than the Great Hands?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I mean, okay, I think you could.
You could argue that. I think they could argue they
could be on power with the Righteous, if not maybe
exceed them slightly. Just you know, if they were given
you know, the ball to be able to you know,
be able to run with the ball, I think they
could have gotten to that point at least, which isn't
necessarily the highest bar either, but it's pretty good in
the current landscape at least.
Speaker 2: Yes, agreed, agreed. So what did you think about the
Kazarian Well, it was really the Moose and a J.
Francis match. First of all, I actually liked the match
of course and in Shenanigan's as it must. But I
actually thought it was a pretty fun match between the
two big guys. Wait they did have a match, right, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like it was Yeah, so Kazarian was on guest commentary
it was from it was a Moose a J. Francis match.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I just lost in Sorry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously having Kazarian, I guess commentary use a dead
giveaway that there's gonna be Shenanigans and likely she finished
the Yeah, so I actually don't want to see Kazarian
fe with Moose moving forward. That's the best. The lateral
move for Eddie Edwards probably a step back from Eddie
Edwards and at least a J. Francis is a younger
wrestler that I could see some potential in. As we mentioned,
I feel like this is going to get a little
bit like wrapped into that that stable warfare probably is
that they're going to need to establish for lockdown, which
is why I kind of hate, like, uh, you know,
employment booking like that because it forces things that might
not be you know, at the right time in this
in a story beat. So I'm not a big fan
of that. But it looks like that's probably the direction
that we're headed.
Speaker 2: So any thoughts on the match itself between them before
before the unfortunate ending.
Speaker 3: It was a decent match with with a bad ending,
But yeah, the match itself was fine. I mean, I
think Move's pretty good. I have no problem with Moose
because Arian is a grizzled that. I mean, obviously he
was just a commentary, but when he got involved and
Francis is okay, I mean, I think he can get
a lot. I think I've given the proper reps. He
probably gets a lot better. But it probably they don't
come that that much in teenage just because of the
the you know, tape taping schedule as opposed to less
live events. But you know there's potential there. But the
Mashell Barrow was pretty good. Bad ending, and I'm not
sure I love the direction, but the match in and
of itself was fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, as soon as I knew and
I'm curious now, but I mean, of course, as soon
as I saw Franki Kazari and I knew what the
finish was going to be. But I'm starting to wonder
if is this just a TNA thing that if you
see somebody on commentary, they're for sure going to be
involved with the finish, and I'm not sure if that's
one hundred percent of the time on TNA, but that
might be one hundred percent of the time in all
of wrestling. And I'm starting to be like, oh, is
this the thing? And that makes sense, I guess, but
at the same time, I hope it's not. I'm just like, Okay,
hold on a second year. There's definitely been times in
the last few months that you've seen somebody on commentary
that didn't directly lead to the finish. I have to believe,
but I'm not sure that's the case into.
Speaker 3: Your next Yeah, no, it seems seems like more so
even than than other company's honestly, percentage wise, if I
had to guess.
Speaker 2: So, I thought they had good in ring chemistry though,
especially for the big Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're both power I.
Speaker 2: Thought Moose was moving around pretty well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're both obviously powerhouse former from our NFL players,
so they're clearly athletes, and they're both obviously pretty large
and stature relative to most of the general male population.
So I think I think it worked for them.
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Speaker 2: I think I would have I would have rather them
build to this match and then start with like the
tag match or something like that, and maybe do the
Frankie if we're gonna do Frankie Kazarian and Moose like
that should have been at the beginning. Then you could
have done the tag match, and then you could have
gotten to the singles match between Frances and Moose. I
assume Moose eventually goes over in the feud. But actually
this is probably one of my other than the finish.
I hated the finish, but just kind of like the uh,
the end ring, I thought that was one of the
more fun one of the more fun stuff on the show.
Although Expressions was trying to fill in for Ryan Nemouth
with like the super intense facial expressions, so I definitely
noticed that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agree, Yeah, there has to be one cartoonish of
facial facial figure guy per episode. I think it's like
it's a quota they have to hit.
Speaker 2: So always, let's see. Was there anything else from impact
that caught your eye?
Speaker 3: It's just one thing was mentioned it briefly, but Ricky
so also getting involved after the main event Excivision title match.
I really hope that this means this has been positioned
for the X Division title now after kind of the
Fabe and Eichner, you know, miss as we just discussed.
But I can't fully trust teen there right now that
they pulled the trigger based on you know, recent When
I say recent, most recently, this is this week's booking,
booking pattern, So that's what I hope the case is,
but but I can't particularly with the X Division title.
I can't I can't put my finger down on at
this point, but that, yeah, that's that's kind of one direction,
I hope. But like I said, I still think SOSA
and Later it's a tack team has legs well a
lot dependence Later's contract situation as well. So there's a
lot of moving parts in the background that I think
are going to determine the direction of Creative, you know,
to the end of the summer.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's unfortunate that it has to. I mean,
I know it's a part of the game, but it
is unfortunate that it has to kind of affect the
on screen products so much. I mean, it's basically obvious why.
I mean, it's obvious that those things are happening is
directly linked to the things that are happening on TV,
so that that kind of sucks, honestly, But I know
it's it's just the nature of the game, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, there's ebbs and flows always,
but you just wish it would get more like a
more consistent handle on creative. Like still it seems like
like b J. James or road Dog has an officially
signed so you know, who knows that that's going to
be reality at this point and quite a bit of
time now, so maybe maybe the ship sailed on that.
But yeah, it seems like this is kind of what
we're going to get. Seems like we've kind of settled
into the groove post post Timey Dreamer, so it seems
like it's a little established that we've got a pretty
good insight into what it's gonna look like moving forward.
Speaker 2: It's been so it's been a roller coaster because like
I was like impressed with kind of the shine that
they were putting on the young guys in the first
couple of weeks, and then it feels like this week
it kind of went to a drastically different place. I don't.
I mean, maybe I'm just I'm just completely bad at
reading where things are going, but it just it felt
like things changed kind of over the last last week.
I guess I do kind of like the team of
Moose and Elijah. Something about that team kind of I don't.
I don't know if I would say that's like one
of those single stars teams that could go out of
the Tag top of the Tag division, but I kind
of like the pairing like the Moose and Elijah, I
don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, honestly, I need Elijah to be a little
bit more serious if he's gonna be interacting with Moose tho, Yeah, yeah,
I need him to get me just stuff a little
bit from the the bagabond guitar player, that character that
he plays, be a little or if he's gonna do that,
there's a way he can make that tough too, I suppose,
But it just seems like he gets a little bit
too too lost, And I don't necessarily call it comedy,
but it's also not serious, So I think he gets
gets lost a little bit of purgatory that exist between
those two, those two extremes.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I like their interaction because it kind
of to me it played into that a little like
it kind of took It wasn't about him being a
guitar man. I'm sure he was playing like his guitar
was there and he was like put in the case
or whatever it was. But it actually felt like Moose
brought some seriousness out of of Elijah there. So I've
always thought that Elijah could be better if he wasn't
just relying on the I mean, I know he's not
amazing in the ring, but I feel like he could
tap into a little bit more creativity. I mean, he's
been relatively creative, but now I feel like the gimmick
has ran its course, and I'd love to see him
he doesn't have to fully reinvent himself, although that'd be
fine too, But it would be cool if if we
saw something different. But I guess, like we've kind of said,
he's found that hockey talk man gimmick that he can
kind of ride forever, which you can still you could
go away from the gimmick and then go back to
it also, so I mean it wouldn't hurt, It never
would hurt necessarily to kind of branch out and try
something new.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, totally agree. There's like you said, this
is but as I've known him in his entire career,
which is probably a little over ten years now, this
has been a variation of this exact same character. There's
no depth or layer. I mean, it just it's always been,
which you know, it's fine. I mean, it's probably you
could be in the same position at a card for
a long time doing this. But Andy, granted he's been
in a couple of different companies now as well, since
I've seen him doing this, so yeah, I mean there's
obviously limitations, but you know, he's he's got this down,
I suppose, but I would just be positant into pairing
him with with top acts if finness he's going to
to adjust his game to certain extent.
Speaker 2: So he actually, to me, he feels like he's been
around basically forever, like because he's basic, he's kind of
like a derivative or like a juiced up version of
past gimmicks. He kind of just feels like he's always
existed and that he is very old. Like I even
feel like when he gets in front of crowds, they
react to him like he's this ancient act that's just
been going on forever and ever, which is kind of
it's kind of sad to me when like when he
enters and people are like, yeah, walk with Elijah, Yeah
I remember that.
Speaker 3: It's just kind of you know, doing like the uh,
you know, the best hits, which were I should say
best hit because it's not like its grades of the
South Park episode where you go, I think I forget
that I loved all your greatest hit. Yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 2: It does feel like they're kind of trying to warm
up Moose. Uh yeah, with some sort of bigger push.
Speaker 3: You know, I do like Moose, but it's just like
we've seen Moose at the top so many times. It's like,
let's give, let's give some of the some of the
kids that you shot here too. Though It's like, I
don't have a problem with Moose, but it does feel
a little bit a little bit repeat or rerun, even
even though I like his current character even but it's
not like he's greatly involved necessarily either. He's still kind
of the brute force, you know, tough guy, which which
he is probably realized too. But it's just just you know,
you know, you you really have so much, so many
cycles to get these other guys over, and then that
time passes and then you have no one place Moose
when you know, a couple a long time. But you know,
even he has a sholve life.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I could kind of see him getting transitioned
into the role to be the one to take the
title from Memuth, especially especially since there hasn't been anyone
else that's clear clearly been placed in front of us
yet other than the Borrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, but maybe the title from them
to Moose. It's just like and then you know, I
don't know, just's like what's agoin Shreddy Water to to
certain no One. You know, you're you're not investing in
the next generation at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a lateral move.
Speaker 3: And at that point, who's the young here You're gonna
put over Moose? And granted that would be probably quite
a bit done the line, but I can't think off
the top of my head, you know, more so heavily
on the on the baby face younger baby face side.
Speaker 2: So well, I mean maybe I'll lead at that point.
I could, I could see that basically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that'd be came with that. But you know
that's like you said, that's probably be months and months
down the line. Yeah, for sure, take off the head
off moves, So who knows the landscape look like at
that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So right now you think there's no chance Navarro
is winning the title right now.
Speaker 3: The way it's been booked, I would be pretty shocked
if if you took it off them, which I assume
it's going to be at lockdown, but you know that
probably won't have been main event Lockdown it would probably
be the lockdown match itself.
Speaker 2: So ah, yes, good point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it kind of sees where where they see
that feud. I guess what level they see that feud.
Speaker 2: Well, I kind of hope that they just give it
the main event, but.
Speaker 3: I did too. I'm typically I always default should be
the World Championship match, and that's very rare circumstance. But
you know that's you know, it's kind of like WW
with the Royal Rumble or War Games or you know,
AW with like uh, you know, with lights Out match.
You know they do that a lot too.
Speaker 6: So ah, yes, on Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop
when NXTA it's just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and
alongside my co host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT
Talks NXT. We go live on the pw Torch YouTube
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Speaker 2: All right, so did you happen to finish or get
caught up on Dark Side of the Ring? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I did watch most of the Dark Side of the Ring.
I think there's a little bit left, and it was
it was fine, but I'll be I didn't feel like
I really learned much, to be honest, and it felt
like it was kind of one sided in the presentation
of my opinion, which isn't that common fruit for Darkside
the Ring. So I would say I was a little
bit disappointed there, But I know they didn't have access
to everyone, so that's probably why I got a slant
to it. But that's just kind of how I personally felt.
So I don't know what would you take?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my biggest take was that I just
there's so many people that I would have really liked
to I mean, okay, well, if it was more based
on TNA itself and not so much on the story
of Jeff Jarrett, there's so many people I would have
loved to hear from, like, like, I'd like to see
Kurt on there. I would have liked to see Stinging
on there. I would have liked to see someone Joe.
Speaker 3: Have been really important too. But I understand that type
of stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, ude, that would have made the thing
like a whole different kind of thing if you had
if you had both sides on there, that would have
definitely been I mean, she's obviously the glaring absence on there.
So yeah, I mean I definitely didn't feel like I
learned a ton. I guess like I kind of got
a little sympathy. I don't know why, but I kind
of came out a little sympathetic to been through. So
I'm not saying I want him to see him booking
wrestling or anything, but at times I was kind of like, ah, so.
Speaker 3: You think the vitriol he get can be can be
a bit excessive relative to other people that are just
as Cardio as In my opinion, I think like Eric Bischell,
I view Eric Beschoff in the same light that I
view Vince Russo. I don't Cardi's kind of artist vibe,
and that's you know, I feel like he gets a
past sometimes and I'm not sure why, but he always
he's always rubbed me the wrong way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do always love I'll always love to see
the Cordnet Russo if you play on on.
Speaker 3: On the screen, I honestly I think it's a big
exagert for the cameras too. I think it's definitely going
a bit of a especially Cornet's playing a bit of
a character. Absolutely, Yeah, it is funny. I mean, I
can't deny that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was I was disappointed that it was.
I mean, I guess, I mean, I don't know, should
I I should have known this, I guess, but I
guess I was just kind of disappointed that it was
such a just Jeff Jarrett kind of documentary and it
was three parts, and ultimately I do think it could
have just been one decently long episode if it was
gonna be just on Jeff Jarrett and not more about
TNA and just kind of more about like the guys
that did. I mean, I know, they they gave some
shine to some of them, and I liked the little
piece that they gave, you know, to the knockouts kind
of being like the Revolution and women's wrestling before it
happened on the mainstream or whatever, because that's true and
that's a really cool thing, but I wish they would
have gone further with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the Knockouts Covision used to be the
pinnacle of women's wrestling because it was a joke in
WW for the longest time with the viewers era, you know,
key matches and stuff like that, where they're actually having
real credible matches in the Knockouts division, which is kind
of funny based on the name, but yeah, it was
a reality. And even up up until relatively recently, we
could argue TENA had that one of the best women's divisions,
I know, you know worldwide professional wrestling.
Speaker 2: And tag team I mean, and and like even the
younger I mean, like the you know, the cruiserweights style division,
I like there.
Speaker 3: Was the division originally was.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, there's definitely a time when TNA was
had a lot of of the kind of cutting edge
wrestling happening. I I I guess I shouldn't be shocked,
but I can't help but like just kind of just
like watching Jeff Jarrett talk and just be like, yeah,
you're you're working, I mean, come on, man, Like.
Speaker 3: All those guys, I think what they say honestly, with
with with the grain of salts, because they're so used
to promoting that that's all, it's all they know, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I actually really liked Steiner in it. I thought
he was one of the cool people to have being
interviewed because I haven't seen him in that many interviews
and he kind of just came across as honest and
like straightforward words. I like that. I also liked the
awesome Kong as well. Yeah, she she came across really well.
Speaker 3: I think she's pretty well respected, you know, from an
industry perspective, so as a wrestler and you know outside
the ring as well.
Speaker 2: So for sure, what are your thoughts on on Jeff
Jarrett as a wrestler and just kind of your grant
your wider view on him.
Speaker 3: I guess definitely a little bit of mixed opinion to
a certain extent. I mean, he definitely had his moments
as an injuring wrestler that you know, I can't take away.
He think a little bit more earlier on his career
and even in TNA, there was a certain amount of
value to tim I think, particularly earlier on But I'm not
the biggest fan of his his booking mind. I actually
mentioned a little b earlier in this episode, but but
I call it that the Jeff Jarrett was kind of
a super overbooked mess at times. I think he is
a king of trying to do too much, you know,
and not pacing things out well enough. And I think
sometimes even in aw you see that from a booking
agent perspective, maybe because he's an agent in the back
I believe, so you know how he probably interacts with
others and you can maybe see that show up on
shows sometimes with you know, things that are kind of
repeating each other and are not spaced out properly enough.
So like mixed opinions, because I do think he's contributed
quite a bit to the business, but I also think,
you know, he's probably you know, hurt the business from
from a like backstage booking perspective. In that regard, I
would want him carrying the book for me. But if
you you know, I could probably find a spot in
ash you know, in my company for him to you
just got to be a little bit rained in to
a certain extent.
Speaker 2: So do you still like him as an entering performer?
Speaker 3: I mean currently now I wouldn't. I don't necessarily need
to see in the ring at that point. Like if
you wanted to do maybe like a pure manager type role,
that might be okay, which he maybe sort of does,
but I don't need to see him actually in a
mattress point in his career. They tried to do the
mjfftared think a few years ago, and they had to
pull the plug on that because that was getting pretty
bad reception.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was not into that. There was I mean,
that was at a time when the m JF character
was in a really strange place, which I mean, we
can we can always go down that rabbit hole sometime,
but uh yeah, I mean I I don't know if
it's a possibility, but I love key would like to
see Jeff Jarrett return to TNA and in some capacity,
I mean maybe he doesn't even I mean, would you
give okay, how about this, would you give Jeff Jarrett
the book in TNA right now?
Speaker 3: I mean no, I would give it to I wouldn't
also give it to Delirious either, though he's curtly things.
So no, and I guess no, and no, I would
probably look for maybe some younger pressure talent I mean,
it's possible for them to poach Jimmy Borash being in
Triple A. That's actually exactly I think. I think he's
killing Forgery Rush is killing in Triple A right now.
And I think he's done a lot of great things,
even in n X Team, even back when News with TNA,
He's I think he's a He's a great booking mind
in my opinion, So I would, I would if I
could give him the book somehow I'm pach him for WWE.
That's probably to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always been a fan of Jeremy Borash. I mean,
I feel like whenever it was him and Matt Hardy
with the Broken Universe.
Speaker 3: That was yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And most of the things that even the crazier
ideas I feel like we're in later in TNA that
we're still kind of entertaining. We're definitely Borash stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And during the pandemic area and w W, Borush
currently did a lot like the aj Styles Undertaker thing,
which I thought was pretty good, even like the Bray
Whaitt John Cena thing I actually thought kind of worked. Oh,
I had a lot from understand, I had a lot
to do with it, kind of producing those.
Speaker 2: So I know the funhouse match is a is kind
of a divisive thing, but I kind of thought that
was like a, I don't know, it's like it's wrestling adjacent.
Like I I showed that to friends that weren't even
into wrestling at the time because I was like, dude,
check this way shut out, Like I don't even know
what to say this is. But honestly, it was pretty
captivating stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, way gives a lot of more
leeway to that time, just based on you know, the
time that we were living in, and I tend to
tend to give boor Lee way as well, So I
thought that stuff worked. Particularly that AJ Styles Undertakers thing
we just talked about as well. You know, that turned
into like a big name that meme format, but it
was just kind of a play moment when the Undertaker's
standing behind AJ Styles. So I thought that was that
was pretty funny. But it works in the environment that
we were living at a time, you know, kind of
like stadium Stampede worked in aw same as well. I
give leeway to that. So yeah, yeah, that's just kind
of my overall opinion for sure.
Speaker 2: Do you think you could do a TNA like a
successful TNA doc without specifically highlighting like everything about Jeff Jarrett.
I mean, I know you couldn't do the story without
Jeff Jarrett, but could you do could you do a
TNA doc more about like I don't know, I guess
less centered on Jeff and more just about like, yeah,
I think the wrestling and the book, you know that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Realistically, if you look at the you know, entire history
of the teenage, Jeff here was relatively kind of a
you know, obviously if he was very instrumental in the beginning,
but you know, there's a lot more parts that the
history since that point. I mean, Billy Corgan was involved,
as we mentioned, Dixie Carter was involved, You had all
the you know, the w W two, b W have
cast off, the old heads were involved. That was a
big aspect of people just collecting paycheck, like Booker he
admitted at one point. I mean, there's a lot to
go in on there, even you know, like the original
guys that had a lot of talent, you know, Daniels, Samoy, Joe,
aj Styles, Amazing Red that we talked about a few
weeks back. So yeah, you know, even guys that are
still around. Abyss was a big, big part too that
I think he's a little underrated in wrestling history. Eric
Young that talked about just recently left. Someone else just
recently left as well, but that I wasn't mentioned. But yeah,
I mean there's there's so there's DNA is such a
rich history of something good, a lot of it bad,
but there's a lot to talk about that. I think
you could do like multiple episodes, but you'd have to
take a different look at it and be able to
get a bunch of people to participate. And I'm not
gonna fully trust what a lot of those people say,
so that's why you got to get a bunch of
different perspectives to make it as as accurate as possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think that there's enough interesting stuff and
enough interesting people that you could you could definitely do
one without being so centered on on Jeff Jarrett. I
Jeff Jarrett's actually like one of my earliest memories of wrestling,
because I'll never forget when he broke the guitar over
Caine's head and Kane just stood there and then they
haven't ever ran away. That's like a wrestling memory, that's
like the very first little memory that I just remember forever.
I guess for some reason.
Speaker 3: It's double J two even like back in like WCW.
You know, he'd call it his name kind of deal.
I remember that vaguely as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then I also remember like the nWo
Silver and Black run also it was a wild time
with him and I guess Brett Hart briefly and Steiner.
I'm not sure who else was in that, but that
was a wild incarnation of the nWo. I think the
last one in WCW.
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, yeah, I had memories of that as well.
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Speaker 2: So I saw a news story that Sammy Callahan had
signed with AW.
Speaker 3: I was going to bring that sack as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you think that's I mean, that must
be somewhat interesting as far as like he immediately is
signed by AW right after he's let go or whatever
from TNA.
Speaker 3: From what I understand, it's a trial run, so nothing
set in stone. Yep, they're giving me an opportunity, and
I'm for RI two. He's pretty close with John Moxley,
so obviously Max is pretty strong, pold with Tony kind
of the company. So yeah, that doesn't really surprise me. Yeah,
I definitely like to see, you know, if that works out.
You know, you know, mixed opinions that on Callahan's run
in you know TNA. I think there was some good
and some bad, So not sure about his his booking mind,
I guess you'd say, but interesting to see where that
goes in the TENA ecosystem.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think he's pretty well liked by people
in the backstage capacity, so I doubt he would be
I mean, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he
would be solely responsible for booking anything in AW And
I guess they have the space and everything, so.
Speaker 3: I imagine who'll probably collaborate with Moxley in the Death Riders.
I had to guess.
Speaker 2: I mean, it almost feels like it was some sort
of I mean, whenever things something like this happens, like
where somebody is let go and instantly signed, it makes
me feel like there's some sort of story that we
don't have yet and that there's some sort of something
more to it basically, but you know, you never know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know. It seems like I said,
it's a trial run, so I don't know if he's
like under official contract per se, or if he's getting
like a her date appearance until he proves himself. I mean,
I don't know. How it's structured obviously, but it seemed like, yeah,
it's not that it's not definitive yet they're going to
give himn opportunity.
Speaker 2: So, uh, did you see that Matt Hardy had made
a case like that He put out a statement or
I think it was an interview where he made a
case basically kind of like a recruitment pitch for Seamus
to join TNA. Did you see that?
Speaker 3: I did not, But I could see I could see
that working.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Granted, Tena's got that problem where it's like I wouldn't
want k Famous to come in and then you install
him at the top and you know, at the expensive
younger talent, But if you wanted to bring him in
and like help put people over, I could definitely see
that working. And you know, obviously the ww and TNA
have a cert relationship, but you know, he just kind
of turned down a w B contract, so I don't
know how that's gonna work, you know, if there's any
animosity there. But I mean I could see that working.
I would have no problem with that. But like I said,
I don't want him going to the top of the
card at the expensive younger wrestlers either.
Speaker 2: So you wouldn't bring him in at the top even
from the start.
Speaker 3: No, no, I don't think he has that much cachet
where it's worth it. I would probably bring him in
and honestly look to put someone over obviously make him
look strong, or if he wanted to build him up
to the point that you know, like you know, have
him interview with other older guys and then put him
over like you know, Eddie Edwards, or just try to
think of guys on that level, or like Kazarian and
put him over and then use him to put over
like a Ricky so Ser moustaff Ali or what have you.
I could see that working, but no, no, I wouldn't
want to. He's like forty eight years old with with
final synosis, I don't think you do you put the
teenage World title on him? I think I think that
further incredibility of the title.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I would tend to agree, But honestly, if on
Nick Nimouth, I'm not saying Nick Nimmouth is bad, but honestly,
like for a short run, I wouldn't hate Seamus coming
in and getting the DNA title, just just kind of
as a boost maybe.
Speaker 3: Comes in it takes it, if you want to say,
it comes in and takes it immediately off the myth
and then you know, has a short run and they
get it to a younger guy. Okay, I mean, yeah,
I'd be okay with that, I guess, but that's essentially
using him to put over a younger wrestlers, so I'd
also be.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of above of
us getting what we want. Yeah. Yeah, I actually like
the idea of him coming in and getting a strong
run at the top, dethroning Nimuth, and then building up
somebody for him to put over before he eventually goes
somewhere else or but although you know, I think it's
probably wishful thinking. Although he like in Harty's the article,
you know, he made some strong cases, like you know,
it's a giant pond over there into an aw No.
I mean, he's got good friends there, so it's like,
I guess it doesn't really matter. I guess it depends
on what.
Speaker 3: He's looking to do at this point in his career
as well. Though maybe he just wants like one more
room with with with Audio. Maybe he wants more more
tag red with him or something. So I guess it
depends on what. I don't think he's looking to be
at the top of a card necessarily either. I don't
think that's a requirement for him a career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he probably wants to do the bar again. I mean,
and honestly that's that's probably what I want to see selfishly,
But just to see some some extra juice and dna
U for us personally, I would love even if it
was like just for the rest of the year, to
shake it up. I would like to see it. But
I I I again, I don't. I don't really see
that happening, But I like I liked to see that
Matt Hardy was out there like trying to make the
case about how you can come here and be the
guy or although I mean, I don't know if I
like the way he said it. He basically said place
like that. Wait, I don't think he was applying that
you should come here and put people over, because obviously
the Hartings haven't been putting anybody over either.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't want to turn into that that you know,
Hal Cogan Booker t area of TNA two where it
was just you know, old w B guys coming in
being shot at the top of the cart at the
expense of you know, guys like Samoa, Joe aj Styles
and you know Chris Daniels and you know people that
I mentioned earlier as well. So I don't want that
situation either, So there needs to be a balance.
Speaker 2: What if like a what about well, I mean, what
about Nathan Fraser, Like if he became available, could you
see him being a guy that you could send to
the top and TNA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's a guy position right absolutely. You know,
I think he might have gotten that opportunity ish at
AW because I know he was doing stuff there before.
I know his relationship with Seth Rollins, so that's ultimately
why he I think went the NXT route and actually
don't didn't even hate him in Praxium with Axiom is
a team tag team. Actually think they're pretty decent. WW
does a value tag wrestling, so you know that was
doomed to you know, from the beginning. So uh, yeah,
I could see him position correctly. I mean he's still
relatively young too, and you know, he doesn't really have
a ton of stink on him because he hasn't really
done that much outside the tag division in WWE, So
if you come in and position him correctly, there's no
reason he could be in a lovel of a Ricky Sosa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'd like to see it. And it
kind of feels like that's one that could that's something
we could see happening.
Speaker 3: Did he get released?
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to imply that
he had been released or anything. It's just like the
way that he's been used, like I mean overall, but
especially kind of lately, it's it's had me kind of
wondering if that's coming. Yeah, but again, I know I
haven't heard anything about that, but it just feels like
they're kind of it feels like it could happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, definitely, And that's you know, with the with
the way you know TKO operates, anyone could be released tomorrow,
So anyone in the Mother could be released tomorrow. So
it's certainly a possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed.
Speaker 3: And then just to add a little bit too, so
ask about Center and Sant earlier the team, so apparently
they asked for their release from the company. I didn't
realize though, but their last match was was an unsuccessful
title challenge against the Hardy's on March sixth. It wasn't
even that long ago. But I don't really remember that
that predated our podcast, But I don't really remember that
that happening.
Speaker 2: So yeah, actually when I looked them up, I saw
that earlier today and I was like, wow, I did
not I do not remember seeing them and seeing that match.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I must do. I must have done a
hit and missus on it, but I don't really really recall, so.
Speaker 2: And that and that must have been like right before
the Hardy has lost the titles to the System.
Speaker 3: Then, because yeah, because yeah, it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 2: I mean interesting, Yeah, that's that is interesting. Yeah, I
mean that was I think that does play into the
fact that the System, like they didn't defend the tag titles,
yeah at all until the match where they lost him.
Is I think that what happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you said, like similar the women's
tag titles, they were rarely defended because there's not as
we mentioned, there's not a lot of options. It's like
you could have a lot of matches without burning that
burning it out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't like when they're like, yeah, they
haven't defended the title. Here they are losing the title.
I mean, I know you you have to do what
you gotta do, but that's I don't like that, and
especially when it's happening in multiple places all around the card. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then I also saw to report that Steve Macklin
sent attentive contract with AW. I got to imagine that's
probably at the ROH level, just because that's where his
wife currently Dana Brazo is, And honestly, that's where I
kind of see Maclin positioned. I think we even mentioned
that back when he was first released, but that's that's
kind of the rumor going on now, is that he's
signed attempted to deal, so we'll see where he slots in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely called that. I yeah, I don't see
more than the Ring of Honor, And honestly, I like
kind of I think I could get behind his presence
and Ring of Honor. I don't watch that product very
often at all, maybe the bigger specials, but I could
see him fitting into that just being there for a
good matches. You don't you don't have to really rely
on him to be a huge personality, uh in that place.
So definitely makes sense to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and you know you could even pair him
with his wife in that in that scenario, because I
don't think it's I don't think that's above that, that's
that that environment. I think you could do that in
that type of environment, you could probably make that work.
And usually that's kind of a healed type of thing.
And I'm not even sure how process position in our way, honestly,
I don't watch enough. But you turn HI into like
a heal team there, So you.
Speaker 2: Know, honestly, that might be the best case scenario for
Steve Macklin, Like I could. I could see that kind
of being an act that Mike could get over. Really,
I mean, I might could even make it to collision.
Speaker 3: Man, I don't know, No, yeah, probably, I mean, like
you said, if it gets over anything in touch, you know,
touch collision, maybe you know, you know, get us get
a cup of copy on dynamite. So who knows?
Speaker 2: All right, man, Well, I think uh, I think that
will wrap up the free portion of the podcast. We'd
like to thank all the listeners out there for keeping
up with us.
Speaker 3: Yep, absolutely no good diverse talk today. We touched a
lot of different areas that touch TNA and outside TNA,
but I think we kept the connective tissue, so it
was fun conversation.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well. Again, we appreciate you guys and we'll catch
up with you next week.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Thanks Zach and thanks to everyone. Have a great
week you as well.
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