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Speaker 9: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 9: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 9: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 9: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 9: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 9: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 3: Good Evening. Chad Spencer Keller, author of Beyond Avery, Road
Speaker 3: Vieweding and the Beast, joins us tonight for part two
Speaker 3: of his interview alongside Wisconsin Political Insider using the studium
Speaker 3: Wan test Crew. Tonight's discussion will detail the recent denial
Speaker 3: of Stephen Avery's new trial in Manitowa County as they
Speaker 3: speak about what happens next from here with defense attorney
Speaker 3: Kathleen Zelner going forward, Wan Testcrew and Keller will deliver
Speaker 3: evidence as to the importance why I all eyes need
Speaker 3: to be diverted to the politics stemming from Avery's two
Speaker 3: thousand and three exoneration and what was happening in Madison
Speaker 3: at the State Capitol during Teresa Halbach's alleged death in
Speaker 3: two thousand and five. Keller states the case is political,
Speaker 3: the deck was stacked. It basically became a bipartisan effort
Speaker 3: by both parties that leaves Stephen Avery in the situation
Speaker 3: he is in. One test Crew will be vouching for
Speaker 3: the severe conflict of interest that Keller presents in his
Speaker 3: book and hopes the two can shed light that Stephen
Speaker 3: Avery never had a chance to begin with. It takes
Speaker 3: us back to the thirty six million dollar question was
Speaker 3: Stephen Avery framed? Keller also exposes how the electronic monitoring
Speaker 3: of juvenile's law could have protected Brendan Dassy and released
Speaker 3: him the very same month that he was arrested in
Speaker 3: for his alleged confession on March first, two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Joining us right now are my very special guest, Chad Spencer,
Speaker 3: Keller and Wan test Crew. Can their evidence expose a
Speaker 3: factual miscarriage of justice inside of the Wisconsin Department of
Speaker 3: Justice and free Stephen Avery and Brendan Dassi. The book
Speaker 3: they were featuring tonight is Beyond Avery Road, and the
Speaker 3: story is Stephen Avery Retrial denied. With my special guests
Speaker 3: journalist and author Chad Keller and political insider Juan test Crew.
Speaker 3: Welcome gentlemen to the program, and thank you very much
Speaker 3: for agreeing to this interview. Chad Keller and Juan test.
Speaker 10: Crew, thanks for having us on, Dan, thank.
Speaker 3: You, Thank you very much, gentlemen. In light of the
Speaker 3: development just yesterday twenty four hours, incredible timing for this program.
Speaker 3: Tell us briefly, gentlemen, with you first one, what is
Speaker 3: your reaction to the decision? Just tell us for those
Speaker 3: people that haven't been under a rock for a while,
Speaker 3: haven't heard this decision, tell us briefly what the decision
Speaker 3: is and what is your reaction.
Speaker 4: Well, the decision is made by a judge named Angela
Speaker 4: Sutkowitz I believe her name is, who is from Sheboygan County,
Speaker 4: which is the county along the lake south of Manitowoc.
Speaker 4: And apparently she's also had some other dealings with Stephen
Speaker 4: Avery or has said some things, so in theory, she
Speaker 4: probably should have recused herself from the case, but didn't.
Speaker 4: But essentially what she did was bar herniye Kathleen Zellner's
Speaker 4: motion saying that the evidence isn't justified to grant the
Speaker 4: new trial. I read her decision, and honestly, you could
Speaker 4: pull quite a few holes in it and of itself.
Speaker 4: A couple of the things were decisions that, Okay, I
Speaker 4: can see where you make the argument, but nothing as
Speaker 4: far as I'm concerned to where if I was a
Speaker 4: jury and that was that was her argument, she wouldn't
Speaker 4: win the argument in my opinion. But essentially it is
Speaker 4: lower court ruling. It's Zelder's corrected tweet to say, there
Speaker 4: are higher courts. It's it's not the end of the world,
Speaker 4: you know, Fortunately for Steve, it's it's just like anything.
Speaker 4: You know, if you get hit in the face, you know,
Speaker 4: unless it's by Scarlett Johansson or something, it's probably going
Speaker 4: to be pretty pretty unpleasant. And and Chad can tell
Speaker 4: you that that Steve is pretty bummed out about it.
Speaker 4: But it's not the final it's not the end of
Speaker 4: the road. There are other appeals. And she said in
Speaker 4: some number of tweets that she does have new evidence,
Speaker 4: new witnesses, and because the case was basically what the
Speaker 4: judge said was that you you can't use the stuff
Speaker 4: that was found as evidence before, it's not that much
Speaker 4: of a detriment necessarily because Zelner had presented the motion
Speaker 4: based on new evidence. So I don't know how far
Speaker 4: that goes to where they can attach the new evidence
Speaker 4: to the old evidence. But all in all, in the
Speaker 4: in the big picture, I don't believe this is going
Speaker 4: to hinder Stephen Avery's chances of being freed. And especially
Speaker 4: with the information that Chad's book has brought forth. You
Speaker 4: add that to the stew and you're going to have
Speaker 4: a pretty pretty yummy stew that hopefully puts the correct
Speaker 4: people behind bars. If that answers your question.
Speaker 3: It does, Chad, I want to ask thank you first,
Speaker 3: based on everything that you were that you've written about,
Speaker 3: were you surprised at the decision? And then what parts
Speaker 3: of this judge's decision, her argument against this this and
Speaker 3: for this denial, what parts were you surprised with? We
Speaker 3: surprised at this decision? Tell us what surprised you and
Speaker 3: didn't surprise you with this decision yesterday?
Speaker 10: Well, Dad is Manitowac County, so nothing really surprises me
Speaker 10: at the county level. What is surprising is that the
Speaker 10: judge was making small little arguments and just trying to
Speaker 10: beat it to death and just nitpicking any little thing
Speaker 10: to keep Stephen from getting a retrial there in Manage
Speaker 10: Wac County. But the zelder is going to try to
Speaker 10: file a new brief, she stated, I think before Thanksgiving,
Speaker 10: and it's going to go to the Wisconsin Court of
Speaker 10: appill It, which will be a better court for Stephen
Speaker 10: to have a retrial in. I think the play and
Speaker 10: field will be better leveled for him. But I mean,
Speaker 10: there's some things that need to go on before this
Speaker 10: trial takes place. And one of those things is getting
Speaker 10: certain people attached to the new appeal off of it.
Speaker 3: And who are some of those people that need to
Speaker 3: be off of this appeal?
Speaker 10: As you say, right now, the Assistant Attorney General Thomas J.
Speaker 10: Fallon is handling the appeal for Steven Avery and then
Speaker 10: Norman Gann, and these people were directly related to an
Speaker 10: affiliation with Peg Watton Slagger's political agenda at the time
Speaker 10: of this two thousand and five incident, and they just
Speaker 10: they need to be recused from this immediately.
Speaker 3: But is there anyone other than you officially calling for
Speaker 3: this and demanding this, and and if there is, how
Speaker 3: effective is that demand? How effective do you think that
Speaker 3: demand will be?
Speaker 10: I think a lot of Avery supporters. Won't these people recuse,
Speaker 10: but a lot of them and a lot a lot
Speaker 10: of people are still blind about Thomas J. Fallon being
Speaker 10: third in command of the entire state. And they see
Speaker 10: Ken Kratz as like the so called villain and making
Speaker 10: a murder of the prosecutor. But but Kratz was a
Speaker 10: fall guy. Kratz is absolutely and nobody in this case
Speaker 10: the person with all the power who stepped onto the
Speaker 10: scene whenever Brendan Dacy was coerced and become a part
Speaker 10: of the prosecution as Fallon Fallon Fallon was starting command
Speaker 10: of the state.
Speaker 4: And he's still in.
Speaker 10: Third in command of the entire state. And that's that's
Speaker 10: the real state power that people have got to get
Speaker 10: their mind grasped around to understand that he had the
Speaker 10: power to throw the match in the original trial.
Speaker 3: Let's talk to one and ask I want to ask
Speaker 3: the question about Brendan Dacy. Not everybody's up to completely
Speaker 3: on speed on what has happened with People have seen
Speaker 3: Making of a Murderer that first season. Surely people have
Speaker 3: heard that the confession has been deemed to be coerced,
Speaker 3: and we've heard about his mental capabilities or disabilities. Let's
Speaker 3: talk about what's happened in the summer and the fall
Speaker 3: regarding Brendan Dassy one test group.
Speaker 4: Well, essentially last summer, when Judge Duffin basically granted that
Speaker 4: rit of habeas corpus to Brendan Dacy, Brad Shimmel decided
Speaker 4: to appeal that within the ninety days. And this is
Speaker 4: kind of where I'm questioning Brad Shimmel because I do
Speaker 4: know that Brad Shimmel is a member of the Republican Party.
Speaker 4: And in the years prior leading up to the twenty
Speaker 4: sixteen election, in even twenty fourteen election, there were numerous
Speaker 4: instances and cases where the opposing party was trying to
Speaker 4: railroad his Republican Party. And to date, even though there
Speaker 4: were many infractions that realistically should have been looked at
Speaker 4: quite soon, he hasn't even looked at those particular cases
Speaker 4: that dealt with blows to his party. But he can
Speaker 4: take the time, you know, to to take some poor
Speaker 4: sixteen year old kid, and you know, appeal within ninety days,
Speaker 4: which is only three months. A confession where anybody who
Speaker 4: looks at that tape. Ray Charles could look at the
Speaker 4: tape and say, hey, at worst, you could say, you know,
Speaker 4: the kid, the kid was probably co worse. I mean,
Speaker 4: anybody with eyes is going to say, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 4: pretty blatant. But they took the time to actually appeal
Speaker 4: that they lost in the seventh Circuit by two to one.
Speaker 4: They took the time to unbomb that. And they just
Speaker 4: recently held a hearing where Laura and I Rider for
Speaker 4: a rider I don't know how to pronounce her name,
Speaker 4: and the young Lady for the Innocent Projects from that
Speaker 4: that Dacy was working with. They gave their respective speeches,
Speaker 4: so to speak, and you could tell that there were
Speaker 4: some judges who were quite favorable towards Dascy and others weren't.
Speaker 4: There are also, I believe louke Berg had a huge
Speaker 4: conferdict of interest with Jude Sykes. Yet these things go
Speaker 4: through all the time, so there's some instances within those
Speaker 4: instances that need to be addressed and looked at. But
Speaker 4: essentially the you know, that's what we're waiting on is
Speaker 4: for this panel to make their next decision so that
Speaker 4: we can go forth to see whether or not mister
Speaker 4: Dassy reigns victorious. Because if he raigns victorious. What does
Speaker 4: that mean for Stephen Avery? Is that a complete game changer?
Speaker 4: Are they going to say kind of what they did
Speaker 4: yesterday and say, well, too bad that somehow doesn't count.
Speaker 4: So this is going to be a really interesting turn
Speaker 4: of events. Quite honestly, if it wasn't so drawn out,
Speaker 4: it would make Game of Thrones and House of Cards
Speaker 4: and Orange just the new. But nobody be watching those
Speaker 4: shows because they want to see what these real life
Speaker 4: twists and turns have in the Wisconsin political system that
Speaker 4: has a little bit of a tinge of corruption. Again,
Speaker 4: if that answers your question.
Speaker 3: Has there been any comment from the producers of Making
Speaker 3: a Murderer to this decision but also to the assertions
Speaker 3: in this book.
Speaker 10: Chat As as far as the creators are concerned, A
Speaker 10: lot of them was helped out by Jerome Butden the
Speaker 10: Defense Council for Steven Avery while making this documentary, and
Speaker 10: a lot of them are still still It's a hurdle
Speaker 10: to say if Butteen was involved with the state or not.
Speaker 10: I have numerous facts that puts him in Latten Schlagger's pocket. Actually,
Speaker 10: But as far as the creators, I mean they jump
Speaker 10: started the creators beauty jem started the creator's careers and
Speaker 10: they're all sort of so so, I mean, it's hard
Speaker 10: to get any response back form from them just because
Speaker 10: of that aspect.
Speaker 3: You assert in this book, and we didn't get to
Speaker 3: it last time. So I'm going to ask you this
Speaker 3: because it is fascinating how far you go into this
Speaker 3: inference after inference fact evidence that you provide incredibly compelling
Speaker 3: argument in this book in so many directions. We talked
Speaker 3: about the Attorney General and her complicity in this and
Speaker 3: her connections. If you think there's corrupt police, well then
Speaker 3: who was in control of the corrupt police? You pose
Speaker 3: that question, But you talk about Teresa Halbach's last day
Speaker 3: and her connection pig Logenslager Loudenslager to that particular day
Speaker 3: and to Teresa Hallback. Chad tell us about.
Speaker 10: That Teresa Hallback had visited Stephen P. Smith on the
Speaker 10: morning that she allegedly died. That was her first visit
Speaker 10: to take photos for Auto Trager magazine. And what's interesting
Speaker 10: about this case.
Speaker 4: Stephen P.
Speaker 10: Smith's lives in the same area as peg Lautenschlagger, which
Speaker 10: is in Fondelac area, and her campaign manager for her
Speaker 10: actual Attorney General run whenever she campaigned.
Speaker 4: Todd M.
Speaker 10: Smith is Stephen P. Smith's blood relative. So on the
Speaker 10: day that Teresa is last seen alive by her first photography,
Speaker 10: first session that she does, she's actually visited a blood
Speaker 10: relative of her campaign manager. And now is what is
Speaker 10: so conflicting about this is peg Lautenschlagger has declined to
Speaker 10: speak for twelve years now on anything to do with
Speaker 10: the Hallback case. She'll speak that Gregory Allen in the
Speaker 10: nineteen eighty five Penny Beerstein case that there wasn't enough
Speaker 10: witness identification to prove Gregory Allan as the suspect of
Speaker 10: Penny Bennerstein and not Steven Avery. So she kind of
Speaker 10: protects Manitoia County there, but she should speak up for
Speaker 10: her whereabouts on where she was the day that Teresa
Speaker 10: Halback would legly died, because Teresa was in her own backyards.
Speaker 4: So to speak.
Speaker 3: Now with that, you would think that you are not
Speaker 3: certainly not hiding any of these facts. And you've been
Speaker 3: very vocal in promoting yourself and the allegations and assertions
Speaker 3: and the claims that you make in this book. What
Speaker 3: is the reaction from the Department of justice to some
Speaker 3: of the things that you said. And if there is
Speaker 3: no reaction, what what do you conclude from that?
Speaker 10: Well, there has been an actual reaction on ken Krets,
Speaker 10: we exchanged emails and and he told me that he
Speaker 10: was going to forward my information to Thomas J. Fallon,
Speaker 10: and would would be that I'd probably be in touch
Speaker 10: with if I released my book for criminal defamation. And
Speaker 10: we're talking like there's millions of supporters here and this
Speaker 10: is the state capital of Wisconsin, where Thomas J. Fallon's
Speaker 10: desk is, and he's going to forward information about my
Speaker 10: book straight to the assist the Attorney General of winsconsing.
Speaker 10: I mean that that shows that the information in my
Speaker 10: book is a threat to them, you know. I mean,
Speaker 10: I haven't heard anything else from Crats but on why
Speaker 10: it opened for whatever they want to confront me with
Speaker 10: in it? Because I would like to actually challenge them
Speaker 10: with a deposition, isn't it? Because But but they won't
Speaker 10: do that at this point because if they start releasing
Speaker 10: information about Lotten Slagger and Falins emails with Lotten Schlaggers,
Speaker 10: Beauden's emails with Lotten Schlagger, Crats, these Fastbenders, all these
Speaker 10: key people involved in these cases. It's gonna blow this
Speaker 10: thing wide open. So they're actually just writing it off
Speaker 10: right now because if they if they dive into it,
Speaker 10: then they're opening up a can of worms. And I mean,
Speaker 10: it's gonna be very bad for the state. And I'm
Speaker 10: just trying to get anybody, anybody in the media, anybody
Speaker 10: to to get Button Schlagger to answer the questions in
Speaker 10: this book.
Speaker 3: Absolutely one you talked about that this is not the
Speaker 3: end for Steven Avery and that there is some optimism,
Speaker 3: it sounds like from you for a federal appeal if
Speaker 3: I'm not correct, So tell us what you think those
Speaker 3: grounds are federally that they have this lake to stand on,
Speaker 3: what they will base or likely will or what you
Speaker 3: think is the strongest ground that they have for this
Speaker 3: federal appeal.
Speaker 4: Well, the strongest grounds, in my opinion, that they have
Speaker 4: is in a I think at two hundred what is it,
Speaker 4: seventy three pages in a book called Beyond Avery Road,
Speaker 4: because it exposes things that has nothing to do with
Speaker 4: what's already been sured out in the past or in
Speaker 4: the present, and it can make connections to where it
Speaker 4: you know, it itself will allow anyone reads it to say, well,
Speaker 4: there's enough reasonable doubt to say that that even if
Speaker 4: it's not circular is and all these people we were
Speaker 4: tied in which which I'm sure we'll get to before
Speaker 4: the end of the programs, but even one or two,
Speaker 4: as long as there's one or two, that that's all
Speaker 4: you need matter of fact, that that that's what happened.
Speaker 4: In the O J. Case, of course, is a little
Speaker 4: bit different. But the federal part of the appeal, which
Speaker 4: is the last one, which is what Brendan is is
Speaker 4: the is the hebeas Corpus writ And that's usually the
Speaker 4: hardest believe it or not. As matter of fact, they're
Speaker 4: not granted very often from my understanding, But more than
Speaker 4: likely what's going to happen is is the next appeals
Speaker 4: court will be the the kicker slash winner, because then
Speaker 4: after that it was constant Supreme Court. My guess is
Speaker 4: if somehow, for whatever reason, you know, our information does
Speaker 4: make it out there, which I can't foresee that happening
Speaker 4: because you know, quite frankly, we've got we've got the
Speaker 4: nuts hand. But uh, that will be where the real
Speaker 4: uh decision will be made when it comes to Stephen Avery.
Speaker 4: Just on what Zelder is presenting in her motions. But
Speaker 4: again with Brendan, Uh if if if Stephen Avery was
Speaker 4: was convicted on what Brendan's testimony was and Brendan's testimony
Speaker 4: gets thrown out, well that changes the game altogether. So
Speaker 4: when I said before that, I don't think it's the
Speaker 4: be all end off of Steven Avery. You know, it's
Speaker 4: there's a lot, there's a lot more on the arsenal,
Speaker 4: But as far as I'm concerned, uh, the the best
Speaker 4: weapon in that arsenal is exactly the stuff we're talking about,
Speaker 4: and it's exactly the stuff that's in Chad's book Beyond
Speaker 4: d Avery Road. Again, because you know, regardless of whatever
Speaker 4: it is they try to suppress, regardless of uh, you
Speaker 4: know who said what, if you've got documentation and if
Speaker 4: you've got trails that tie everybody together that say that
Speaker 4: this is a stacked deck, none of that other stuff matters.
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, in that scenario, Stephen could have actually
Speaker 4: done it and still walk free because of the connections
Speaker 4: and the circular, roundabout way that everybody behind the scenes
Speaker 4: worked together on this to put Stephen in the situation
Speaker 4: he's in.
Speaker 3: So Chad, you talked about Zelner Defense attorney Zelner's approach
Speaker 3: with this, and we haven't talked about that, and that
Speaker 3: is that she has another suspect and she names another
Speaker 3: person of interest. Tell us who that other person that
Speaker 3: other suspect is, And was this, in hindsight a good strategy?
Speaker 3: Is this the way to go? Is it the way
Speaker 3: she must go? What do you think, Chad?
Speaker 10: As far as her suspect, Teresa Halback's ex boyfriend, Ryan
Speaker 10: Hill A Gas, he was never protected under the Denny
Speaker 10: law that was filed in motion during the pre trial.
Speaker 10: And it's it's a constitutional loophole where she can backdoor
Speaker 10: on the appeals courts by saying, hey, we have a
Speaker 10: suspect here and this correlates her. Her theory is that
Speaker 10: Ryan Hill of Gas is responsible for bludgeoning Teresa Halback
Speaker 10: to death. Now, now why I think she's going with
Speaker 10: that motive. If you take Brendan Dacy and he gets
Speaker 10: his habeast approved and he wins his case, then the
Speaker 10: state no longer has a smoking bullet. Because Norman Gan
Speaker 10: one of the people I want to I've been fighting
Speaker 10: to get removed. He in the original trial said we
Speaker 10: omitted the contaminated bullet fragment, and we deviated from protocol
Speaker 10: to make sense, and that was because of Brendan Dacy's confession. Now,
Speaker 10: if the confession gets returned over, then the state no
Speaker 10: longer has a smoking gun because Brendan's Dacy's confessions no
Speaker 10: good and it no longer puts the two in the
Speaker 10: garage with shooting Teresa in the head as the state
Speaker 10: alleged in the first trial. So then Zeldner can can
Speaker 10: provide the information that for reasonable doubt, and she doesn't
Speaker 10: have to prove that this ex boyfriends to kill her.
Speaker 10: All she has to do is provide reasonable doubt that
Speaker 10: Teresa was bludging to death. And when you no longer
Speaker 10: have a smoking gun because the state bullet isn't collaborated
Speaker 10: by Brendan's testimony anymore, then then the state can't use
Speaker 10: that piece of evidence so that that establishes reasonable doubt
Speaker 10: that he said could have been bludgeoned to death by
Speaker 10: Ryan hill Gas. It's a very good move on her behalf,
Speaker 10: because I mean Falling and the prosecution team they kind
Speaker 10: of sewed this thing up and exhausted every appeal they
Speaker 10: could think of during the original trial and there's just
Speaker 10: one loophole that they didn't think about, and that was
Speaker 10: the Denny didn't protect the ex boyfriend. So Elenor is
Speaker 10: using that angle here, which is an actual it's a
Speaker 10: it's a brilliant angle to go through. Me personally, I've
Speaker 10: done a lot of research on Ryan, I mean, as
Speaker 10: far as him being the killer. If he worked with
Speaker 10: the police in this, he could be the killer. But
Speaker 10: we'll have to leave that for Zelener and her experts
Speaker 10: to establish that.
Speaker 3: Now you talked to vote. If Brandon Brandon Dassi is
Speaker 3: his confession is thrown out, but if he talks with it,
Speaker 3: there is another retrial, we'll say so. So we're talking
Speaker 3: about what happens. If you're talking about the state, in
Speaker 3: the power of the state so far to transform this
Speaker 3: innocent person into a guilty person and do all this stuff,
Speaker 3: all this incredible behind the scenes stuff, why would it
Speaker 3: not be continuing. So it sounds like you're optimistic that
Speaker 3: there could be some things, But isn't rend and Dassy
Speaker 3: isn't he vulnerable to being able to be retried again?
Speaker 3: And if the state already has this intention to do
Speaker 3: what they've done so far, according to you, Chad and one,
Speaker 3: then why not continue.
Speaker 11: With that.
Speaker 10: Well as far as Dassy being retried anywhere for the
Speaker 10: higher course to determine, I mean, I can't make that determination.
Speaker 10: That be for the courts. As far as the Attorney
Speaker 10: General and assist Attorney General Fallon and Shimmel, they both
Speaker 10: share an office and Fallon worked with Peg and Fallon.
Speaker 10: I believe is Dup and Shimmel to to process everything
Speaker 10: politically and in the judicial system to not let any
Speaker 10: of these people get retried, because if any of this
Speaker 10: evidence comes to light, I mean, it's it's a rug
Speaker 10: sweep they've been They've been trying to sweep it and
Speaker 10: sweep it and sweep it. I mean, and and this
Speaker 10: has it. This hasn't just gone on through Simmel's current
Speaker 10: attorney general. This went on with with the Attorney General
Speaker 10: Van Hale Holland who who preceded Lutton Slagger and the
Speaker 10: succeeded Ltten Slagger and then Shimmel succeeded him. This is
Speaker 10: Avery's third appeal here, and and that they don't want
Speaker 10: any of this going to court. I mean, these people
Speaker 10: were given awards at the end of this trial. The
Speaker 10: person who allegedly coerced. Brendan Dacy was given an award Fastbender.
Speaker 10: Norman Gan is now considered the pioneer of DNA and
Speaker 10: Wisconsin for for submitting uh contaminated bullet fragment. I mean,
Speaker 10: you know, this is this is absurd that all these
Speaker 10: people get these awards, and as far as any retrials
Speaker 10: or anything, if they ever happened, the information of everything
Speaker 10: that circulates in my book, there's so many facts that
Speaker 10: just show that everyone was connected in a bipartisan effort
Speaker 10: to railroad Stephen. I mean, it's it's kind of it's
Speaker 10: just it just blows your mind when you get to
Speaker 10: see see how many people were working together on this
Speaker 10: that had a political agenda. And to me, this entire
Speaker 10: thing is a political conviction. And that's why Attorney General Schimmel,
Speaker 10: an assist Attorney General Fallon, will not allow any of
Speaker 10: this to go to go to a new trial because
Speaker 10: they want to prevent that.
Speaker 4: I mean, in fact, this entire case, and this is
Speaker 4: my opinion, this entire case is about that. Chad just
Speaker 4: mentioned how ken Kratz was saying that he's going to
Speaker 4: pass this on to Fallon and yet nothing's happened. Well,
Speaker 4: why well, because if he decides to open a court
Speaker 4: case and defamation, that means it opens up everything to
Speaker 4: be scrutinized. That's the one thing they don't want. And
Speaker 4: if you think about what happened way back when, right
Speaker 4: before this happened, everybody except for two people were to
Speaker 4: posed the Dennis Bugel who was the DA and Sheriff
Speaker 4: Tom caasurk Okay and nobody. And this is this is
Speaker 4: where I really start to question the motive because a
Speaker 4: lot of you had mentioned in your intro it's a
Speaker 4: thirty six million dollar question. Well, me, knowing about the
Speaker 4: way politics runs, Wisconsin's got a pretty much a balanced budget.
Speaker 4: But the Department of Transportation was the reason, the main
Speaker 4: reason that Wisconsin's budget, which is supposed to be passed
Speaker 4: in June, didn't get passed until just recently a couple
Speaker 4: of weeks ago. Yeah, the Department of Transportation has got
Speaker 4: a budget shortfall of nine hundred and thirty nine million dollars.
Speaker 4: It's about almost a billion dollars. Thirty six million dollars
Speaker 4: is a sneeze to bureaucrat So when people say, okay,
Speaker 4: it was about the money, sure, perhaps, but the one
Speaker 4: thing the one thing that absolutely stopped when Stephen Avery
Speaker 4: got arrested. Okay, and Sea I can tell you all
Speaker 4: about that on how the gun charge turned into something
Speaker 4: else because of where the evidence was stored in Manatawa.
Speaker 4: But the one thing that stopped was that instigation. And
Speaker 4: if anybody ever watches, better call Saul. The ex Philly
Speaker 4: cop Mike German. Trout says, you know what a cop
Speaker 4: fears most. It's not getting shot, it's not getting killed
Speaker 4: in the line of duty. It's prison.
Speaker 7: All right.
Speaker 4: You threaten a cop with that, you make him dangerous.
Speaker 4: When that investigation stopped, everything that we might have found
Speaker 4: out didn't see the light of day until this day
Speaker 4: hasn't seen the light of day. So that's why Shimmel
Speaker 4: and everybody doesn't want this out. That's why Fallen doesn't
Speaker 4: want this out. That's why anybody, you know, Foullen with
Speaker 4: the defamation case, nobody wants to open this can of worms.
Speaker 4: They all want it to just go away. So it
Speaker 4: screams the question what is it? And then you add
Speaker 4: that with everything you find in Chad's book on how
Speaker 4: beauty is tied to Lautenschlagger and everybody's tied to everybody else.
Speaker 4: You have to really wonder what is it, What is
Speaker 4: it that hasn't been found, What is it that hasn't
Speaker 4: been investigated, And what is it that they are hiding
Speaker 4: so bad that they're willing to keep an innocent you know,
Speaker 4: mentally challenge boy who's never even voted once in his life,
Speaker 4: probably never driven a car, to keep that man in
Speaker 4: jail until he's fifty years old to hide what so
Speaker 4: the chance of this stuff being seeing the light of
Speaker 4: day on an accord other than people getting behind us
Speaker 4: and you know, signing that petition to get these guys removed.
Speaker 4: You know that's going to be the real kicker.
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Speaker 3: To this Chad. You make assertions in here. We talked
Speaker 3: about Haulback and the inference that she was connected with
Speaker 3: people that were handling her, and you make inferences in
Speaker 3: the book. And I'll just just say that some of
Speaker 3: the things that you say about peg Lautenschlager being involved
Speaker 3: with this and the state of Teresa Hallback, you have
Speaker 3: some theories and you have you put out the idea
Speaker 3: that Teresa Hallback may have had some other reason to
Speaker 3: die that day when we talked about the alleged murder
Speaker 3: we talk about in the introduction. So Chad, let's just
Speaker 3: have it. What are you trying to say? What do
Speaker 3: you say regarding Teresa hallback her death? What do you
Speaker 3: have to say?
Speaker 10: Well, it goes back to when Teresa leaves Fonde leg
Speaker 10: that morning. The only person that really knows what times
Speaker 10: she's going to even arrive into manutwak okay. Stephen knows
Speaker 10: when she's gonna get Stephen knows when she's there, when
Speaker 10: she's there, but he doesn't know what time he's coming.
Speaker 10: But the person who can best give an estimate time
Speaker 10: for her rival is the person who sees her after
Speaker 10: that first appointment, which is Stephen P.
Speaker 4: Smith's.
Speaker 10: So if he if she's leaving his property and his
Speaker 10: blood relative is odd M. Smith's is todd En Smith.
Speaker 10: And that's Lattenschlagger's campaign manager for her attorney general run.
Speaker 10: And and he's board he's a member of the fund
Speaker 10: Elect board. And I mean there's a really tight knit
Speaker 10: political group right there. It just goes to show that
Speaker 10: Lattenschlagger's own political agenda and the people involved in it
Speaker 10: knew exactly when she left fond Elect. And what in
Speaker 10: the in the book, I give several incidents to inferences
Speaker 10: to Teresa Hallback being terminally ill. And I think this
Speaker 10: process was kind of sped up. I left a lot
Speaker 10: of people out of it personally for civil litigations and
Speaker 10: and kind of introduced the terminal illness so no one
Speaker 10: could really charge me any litigation stuff about just saying, hey,
Speaker 10: you're saying that I killed her, and I'm gonna sue
Speaker 10: you the eternal illness references that I'm making the book.
Speaker 10: I mean, there's some solid facts there, but I still
Speaker 10: think that whatever happened was complications between Fonde lact and
Speaker 10: managed after after she left Stephen Avery's house, and then
Speaker 10: it was just picked up on you know, there's a
Speaker 10: report that says her her car was impounded, her Toyota
Speaker 10: RAB four was impounded on on the third of November,
Speaker 10: but then they say that they found it on the
Speaker 10: fifth on the Avery salvage yard. And I think a
Speaker 10: lot of those reports are just moved from the third
Speaker 10: up to the fifth and they kind of just change
Speaker 10: over the names. So whatever happened to Teresa when she
Speaker 10: left Manutchwac, she left lautenschlaggers On backyard to begin with,
Speaker 10: and that would be the people that would have the
Speaker 10: information on what time she was gonna be in manutchwauc
Speaker 10: and is just really discerning because Lautenschlager has kept quiet
Speaker 10: about this for twelve years and Teresa is visiting the
Speaker 10: blood relative of her own campaign manager.
Speaker 3: Incredible. We're gonna use this gentleman as an opportunity to
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Speaker 3: Apron a better way to cook. When we last left off,
Speaker 3: we were talking about Teresa Hallback and I wanted to
Speaker 3: ask you, how does this fit in and what do
Speaker 3: you think about We mentioned it last time, but this
Speaker 3: is something I'm stuck on as the importance of the
Speaker 3: recorded messages on Teresa's answering machine and her brother's involvement,
Speaker 3: and the court case that when there's an opportunity to
Speaker 3: question something so important as the destruction of evidence, tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit about Teresa Hulback's brother, how much
Speaker 3: he could have known about this and how inappropriate is this?
Speaker 10: Well, let's let's talk about both of Teresa Halback's brothers.
Speaker 10: What's interesting is Mike callback he was secured a job
Speaker 10: with the Green Bay Packers. He was first a video assistant,
Speaker 10: he was an intern and then he became UH payroll help.
Speaker 10: There's a the video director who was working with the
Speaker 10: Green Bay Packers since the nineteen seventies, Eckburn. He has
Speaker 10: just officially retired and Mike's been moving up the department
Speaker 10: over the last twelve years. That of Teresa's alleged death
Speaker 10: and everything.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 10: That there's an interesting backstory on how Haulback was secured
Speaker 10: this job, and that goes with the person who took
Speaker 10: over Ackberg's employment is a University of Wisconsin law He's
Speaker 10: a professor there and he knows Loton Schlagger really good.
Speaker 10: And Egburgh knows lot and Schlagger really well. And when
Speaker 10: it comes down to my research, I kind of tie
Speaker 10: Haulback securing a dream job of having the packers with
Speaker 10: accredited to Lotten Schlager securing that job to him. And
Speaker 10: let's talk about Tim Haulback, Teresa's older brother. One month
Speaker 10: before Teresa is dead and she's allegedly was killed October
Speaker 10: of two thousand and five. Well, if you back up
Speaker 10: to September of two thousand and five, her brother became
Speaker 10: the vice president of the Chiltern Bar Association and he
Speaker 10: went in partner ship.
Speaker 5: With this.
Speaker 10: Law firm. The two Hig law firm and George W.
Speaker 10: Two Higg is a lifelong resident friend again of miss
Speaker 10: Lattenschlagger and two higgs specialization was in dairy farms and
Speaker 10: the handling of the land deeds and transactions after death.
Speaker 10: You had all this dairy farm stuff and he was
Speaker 10: like the go to guy in dairy farms. He graduated
Speaker 10: in nineteen seventy three. Tim Halbach was a recently a
Speaker 10: recent graduate and your pairing hallback with two Hig and
Speaker 10: he's a lifelong friend of Lawton Schlagger and from the
Speaker 10: Fundelack area. He actually operates a funeral home within ten
Speaker 10: miles of Lottenschlagger's residential area, so for them to be partnered.
Speaker 10: A month before her death, with my research, two Hig
Speaker 10: was made the president of the Chiltern Bar. The seed
Speaker 10: money to open this firm was again helped out with
Speaker 10: by the Attorney General Lattenschlagger. And what this gives them
Speaker 10: as the Chiltern Bar vice president and the president of
Speaker 10: this association. Plus their openness firm, they have all the
Speaker 10: legalities available at their law firm to wash any medical
Speaker 10: records of Teresa's parents, any medical records of Teresa if
Speaker 10: you look at her death certificate, it is the most
Speaker 10: shadiest death certificate in the United States history, and they
Speaker 10: would be able to have privileged access to this. And
Speaker 10: I feel that Lattenschlagger had a had paired these two
Speaker 10: up because they knew they were gonna have to wash
Speaker 10: something in her in her disappearance and her death alleged death.
Speaker 10: So so going on the Halback brothers and where they stand,
Speaker 10: they got dream jobs. I mean, they're they're making they're
Speaker 10: making high, high, high end dollars right now. And as
Speaker 10: far as her parents, Lottenschlagger helped them out with a
Speaker 10: milk grant m I l C. It's a Dairy farm
Speaker 10: Association grant where they benefit so much annually from proceeds
Speaker 10: from this grant. And it's like the Lottenschlaggers or Lottenslagger
Speaker 10: had healthy Haulbacks achieve all of this financial gain before
Speaker 10: Teresa's death. And that's something that concerns me is that
Speaker 10: two hig and Haulback are right there in the mix
Speaker 10: of it. And that's one of Lottenschlager's lifelong friends.
Speaker 4: And if you look at every single is you know
Speaker 4: in the military, like a lot a lot of times
Speaker 4: you really advance. You advance because you're in combat, or
Speaker 4: you're the right place at the right time, et cetera.
Speaker 4: Every single person involved in this, whether it was Blenn
Speaker 4: Kachinski now with his you know, judgeship, whether it was
Speaker 4: to the older brother, he's gotten a two hig law
Speaker 4: Firman I believe made partner at twenty six years old.
Speaker 4: And Mike Halbach I just recently saw a tweet where
Speaker 4: he basically had said, you know whatever, twelve years ago,
Speaker 4: I turned a family tragedy into something good, which, of
Speaker 4: course you might look at and say, oh, okay, you know,
Speaker 4: with his sister's death, he got out in front of
Speaker 4: the cameras and you know that got him some publicity,
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. But the way it's phrased, it
Speaker 4: kind of makes you think, okay, now he's one of
Speaker 4: the head video guys in the Green Bay Packers, which,
Speaker 4: of course, anything with the Packers and Wisconsin as anybody's
Speaker 4: dream job. But if you read that and almost you
Speaker 4: know it's like, oh, well, you know, my sister's death
Speaker 4: was wink wink, nudge nudge, what kind of got me
Speaker 4: into you know this Green every no member, he'd mentioned
Speaker 4: Fostbender and weird. They got awards for all this. Everybody
Speaker 4: got promotions, everybody got this and and with that milk Brant.
Speaker 4: I mean, if you really dig into it, it's almost
Speaker 4: as if, and I'm perfectly familiar with how this works,
Speaker 4: quote unquote political payoffs. Well, I'll tell you what you know,
Speaker 4: you whatever, donate to this, and I'll make sure that
Speaker 4: that plant gets built in your in your district, et cetera.
Speaker 4: So this is this is the exact kind of political
Speaker 4: wheeling and dealing in corruption. And if it is with
Speaker 4: Teresa hallbox family, well now that asks the other question. Okay, well,
Speaker 4: if they're involved, how why what happened? This is your
Speaker 4: own sister, How far does this go? Which directions does
Speaker 4: this go? So it opens up an entire new can
Speaker 4: of worms on that aspect alone, tying once again circularly
Speaker 4: back into all this and back into this circular seat
Speaker 4: of political corruption.
Speaker 3: Is there something to the argument that this is a
Speaker 3: small place. We're not talking about a super densely populated area.
Speaker 3: The entire area that we are talking about, And if
Speaker 3: we are talking about that, if we're going to keep
Speaker 3: with a logical if we're going to speculate. We're going
Speaker 3: to speculate somewhat then, what exactly was wrong with Teresa
Speaker 3: Hallback that the family could allow this to happen. So
Speaker 3: as you allude to about an illness, but again, what
Speaker 3: would that illness be and where is any kind of
Speaker 3: evidence that that other than a speculation a speculative nature.
Speaker 10: Well, well, Dan, the facts surrounding that she has genetic
Speaker 10: illnesses in her family on her mother and father's side
Speaker 10: of both cystic fibrosis and mitochondrial myopia, which stem from
Speaker 10: both her parents. Richard Halback died from from complications of
Speaker 10: an injury in Barvard County and down in Florida near
Speaker 10: Cocoa Beach.
Speaker 4: And I think.
Speaker 10: Everybody in my research that that's directed me is that
Speaker 10: his wishes was when he died, Teresa's brother or Teresa's
Speaker 10: uncle married her mother. That was Richard Halback, the biological
Speaker 10: father's brother married Teresa's mother. And they're one of the
Speaker 10: reasons for this that the Halbacks stem from two hundred
Speaker 10: years when they they planted their German family, they come
Speaker 10: they come to Wisconsin two hundred years ago. And it's
Speaker 10: took my knowledge of research into the the dairy farm.
Speaker 10: The way it's handled is that the youngest daughters and
Speaker 10: not the oldest sons, are really the ones who become
Speaker 10: who get the financial gain in the family. So if
Speaker 10: Teresa's gone and Teresa's her her uncle marries her mom
Speaker 10: and they have children, then the two daughters who were
Speaker 10: who were conceived by the uncle now and the mother
Speaker 10: they're now in the primary game of the dairy farm estate.
Speaker 4: So there's a.
Speaker 10: Lot of things happening with the with the way that
Speaker 10: it's put down to the youngest instead of the oldest,
Speaker 10: And I think that's specifically designed because if you have
Speaker 10: genetic illnesses, a lot of people ain't gonna live the
Speaker 10: old age. But if you pass it down to the
Speaker 10: youngest daughter, if you have a young daughter in the
Speaker 10: hall Back clem, which you do, then then they get
Speaker 10: the the trust left over from the dairy farm. And
Speaker 10: I mean there was a trust put in Teresa Halback's
Speaker 10: name and Tim Halback's name prior to her death, like
Speaker 10: one month, and that would have been help established by
Speaker 10: George W. Two Hig when Tim and Tuhig opened a
Speaker 10: law firm. So as far as the evidence that she
Speaker 10: had illnesses, Kathleen Zeldner actually has found a routine pharmacist
Speaker 10: that she was going to.
Speaker 4: Deputy O'Neill, who.
Speaker 10: Questioned Brendan Dacy and Cribbits just just on November sixth,
Speaker 10: the day after the round four was found, told Brendan Dacy,
Speaker 10: a lot of people don't know this, but Teresa has
Speaker 10: medicine that she needs to keep on a daily basis
Speaker 10: that she needs to take. And it later come out
Speaker 10: that Sheriff Jerry Pagel a Calumet County was saying that
Speaker 10: she is perfectly fine. This YadA YadA, YadA. But but
Speaker 10: then taken the consideration the on funeral of Teresa Hallbacken
Speaker 10: when they give the family back the cremaines, they hold
Speaker 10: a fundraiser for cystic fibrosis and and this is where
Speaker 10: a lot of her blue ribbon stuff comes from. But
Speaker 10: but I mean, there's evidence that shows that there that
Speaker 10: she could have possibly been terminally ill. And I do
Speaker 10: think that these this information has been washed and covered
Speaker 10: up by the hall back and two hig Wall firms.
Speaker 4: If you go back to the interview that Brendan did
Speaker 4: with that officer when they were up north in the cabin,
Speaker 4: you can hear him say play his day. You know,
Speaker 4: we need to help her out, Brendon. She's sick, she
Speaker 4: needs her medicine. We need to get her her medicine. Now,
Speaker 4: some might say, oh, that's just cops trying to play tricks.
Speaker 4: But if you've got all this other clue to tie in,
Speaker 4: you know, you tell me so. I just wanted to
Speaker 4: add that part to it.
Speaker 3: Certainly. Now you talk about what's next for Stephen Avery,
Speaker 3: and you talked about defense attorney Zelner. How soon can
Speaker 3: anything new and anything better happened for Steven Avery after
Speaker 3: this decision? How long will it be likely?
Speaker 10: Well, dan Velner has made comments that she would try
Speaker 10: to get a new brief filed before Thanksgiving, and then
Speaker 10: when it's filed, I mean, you know, the court's depending
Speaker 10: on which court it is, some of them can take
Speaker 10: to three years to go to court if they're ever
Speaker 10: going to be retried. So the actual determination of when
Speaker 10: he can be retried, there's no actual given date.
Speaker 4: At this time.
Speaker 10: I mean, they could deny it if My guess is,
Speaker 10: if we don't do something to get Norman Gan recused,
Speaker 10: Thomas J. Fallon recused, Rad Shimmel recused from a part
Speaker 10: of this is that none of them, Dasy nor Avery
Speaker 10: will ever get other trials. And again it's because they
Speaker 10: don't want this opened up. And there's enough evidence that
Speaker 10: I mean, I mean, I can, I can show solid
Speaker 10: evidence that his own defense council was in Lutenschlagger's pocket.
Speaker 10: And that's some information I wanted to get out tonight also.
Speaker 10: But as far as a court date, there might not
Speaker 10: ever be a court date unless we drive this home.
Speaker 10: I mean, I mean, people need to divert their eyes
Speaker 10: from Ken Kratz, start looking up to Thomas J. Fallon
Speaker 10: because he was Pa Lattenschlagger's right hand man daring this.
Speaker 10: He come from peg Lottenschlagger's office. He was her little minion,
Speaker 10: and so I can call him and he come in
Speaker 10: and he took over. And when you have that much
Speaker 10: power in a courthouse, I mean, you're pretty much twisting arms.
Speaker 10: And I want to touch base on a case that
Speaker 10: happened January of two thousand and seven, right before February
Speaker 10: two thousand and seven, when Stephen Avery's case started, Thomas J.
Speaker 10: Fallen protected these two attorneys that had raped a purse
Speaker 10: a female in Chicago, Land and then the outcome of
Speaker 10: this case. These two Wisconsin state attorneys were given lighter sentences,
Speaker 10: no prison time, but they were involved in in a
Speaker 10: sexual assault and rape of a female victim. The prosecutor
Speaker 10: that was the star prosecutor that work with Fallen.
Speaker 4: He was.
Speaker 10: Criticized in the media forgiving these forgiving these winsconstant attorneys leniency,
Speaker 10: so he resigned his position, saying he was taken.
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Speaker 10: Today his dream job in Tennessee and he just left.
Speaker 10: He just he just he just threw away his prosecution
Speaker 10: career and left. And that was because he was under
Speaker 10: unscrutiny by the media.
Speaker 4: But it goes to show you.
Speaker 10: That this is only one month before Fallen does Steven
Speaker 10: Avery's trial. But he's he's in cooperation with attorneys and
Speaker 10: the prosecutor of this case. So it goes to show
Speaker 10: you what he's doing in Steven Avery's trial. He Dean
Speaker 10: Strang is Tom Fallen's best friends, their colleagues. So so
Speaker 10: Fallen mentions and making a murderer if they want to
Speaker 10: say Mantoia County framed him because all this stuff, then
Speaker 10: they do so at their own peril. Well, the thing
Speaker 10: about that Strang's office was right across from Fallen and
Speaker 10: Lautenschlaggers literally across the streets. And so I mean, and
Speaker 10: in the OJ Simpson case there was eight months trial
Speaker 10: there were less than than twenty five judges chambers meeting
Speaker 10: off records. And this trial is Stephen Avery, and just
Speaker 10: a little over two months there was one hundred and
Speaker 10: twenty off record judges chambers meetings with Fallon, crats Gan Beauting,
Speaker 10: and Dean String And these were off record, I mean
Speaker 10: one hundred and twenty times, over one hundred and twenty
Speaker 10: times this was off record. And if you're in that
Speaker 10: position behind closed doors with Fallon, who just one month
Speaker 10: worked with attorneys and a prosecutor and gave leniency to
Speaker 10: attorneys and didn't charge them to the max for sexually
Speaker 10: assaulting and raping a female. That just shows that he's
Speaker 10: working right alongside with attorneys and prosecutors, and it questions
Speaker 10: Falin's ethical role and anything to do with Stephen Avery's trial,
Speaker 10: especially whenever he is peg Wattenschlager's right hand man. And
Speaker 10: he was also deposed in Stephen avery silvil suit. Michael
Speaker 10: Grisback was deposed, Mark Rower was the post. They were
Speaker 10: not allowed to participate as a prosecutor in the murder
Speaker 10: trial trial. Neither should Fallon have been able to participate,
Speaker 10: And you were sorry, go ahead, go ahead. Now, I
Speaker 10: was gonna say you were asked.
Speaker 4: You asked a little while ago about like how small
Speaker 4: things are. Well, I don't know what state you're residing
Speaker 4: in currently, but forty out of the fifty states, basically
Speaker 4: you can't walk into a tavern or a restaurant and
Speaker 4: smoke a cigarette. Now, that decision was made by probably
Speaker 4: a couple hundred legislators and the governor. I had told, however,
Speaker 4: many millions of people that regardless of what you or
Speaker 4: the owner or whatever anybody else wanted, you're going to
Speaker 4: do this. And the actual people that wrote that bill,
Speaker 4: you're probably talking in the dozens maybe, Okay, So when
Speaker 4: he's when Chad's talking about, you know, straying and found
Speaker 4: being across the street each other, and you talk about
Speaker 4: the court system, Dean Strang is part of a law
Speaker 4: firm of Strang, Bradley and Bradley. Now the two Bradley's
Speaker 4: are a male and a female that just happened to
Speaker 4: be the son and the daughter of Wisconsin Supreme Court
Speaker 4: justice and Walsh Bradley. So when you talk about a
Speaker 4: state of five point seven million people and whatever Chad mentioned,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five thousand attorneys, Yet somehow all these people
Speaker 4: kind of running the exact stave circles and reside together.
Speaker 4: And that also if it does go past this next
Speaker 4: appellate court and goes to the Wisconsin Supreme Court, because
Speaker 4: Dean Strang was the one that was on the original trial.
Speaker 4: And yet sub Coitzer or Angela, whatever her name is,
Speaker 4: she mentioned all the stuff that you can't use from
Speaker 4: the past. Well, is that going to be grounds that
Speaker 4: Anne Walsh Bradley's going to accuse herself because the original
Speaker 4: attorney that defended Stephen Avery is part of the law
Speaker 4: firm of Straining Bradley and Bradley, both of those her kids,
Speaker 4: or is she going to rule on this case, you know,
Speaker 4: against Stephen Avery. So when we're talking about all this
Speaker 4: circular everything ties into another. It just keeps going and go.
Speaker 4: It's like the Energizer Bunny. And honestly we're just scratching
Speaker 4: the surface here. You know, this book is two hundred
Speaker 4: and seventy some pages and you've read it. But for
Speaker 4: anyone out there listening, I'm employed to read this book
Speaker 4: because it is just going to blow your mind. And
Speaker 4: the fact that nobody's looked into this before, nobody's talked
Speaker 4: about this before, then this is probably the most important
Speaker 4: part because again evident schmmeven is if you've got somehow
Speaker 4: people working together to stack a deck for whatever the motive,
Speaker 4: for whatever the reason, and we managed to bring this
Speaker 4: to light, you get some petition sign that's force that
Speaker 4: can make you know the higher powers, the higher court,
Speaker 4: that people not involved in this that can take a
Speaker 4: look at this, like for example, the new US Attorney
Speaker 4: for the Eastern Districut Wisconsin that hopefully is going to
Speaker 4: get cleared by the Senate sometime soon. Hopefully he's a
Speaker 4: good man, he can look into it. With all this,
Speaker 4: which means it doesn't matter what Dacy's atturney does or
Speaker 4: what judges do to him. It doesn't matter what Zoner finds.
Speaker 4: If he goes in there and brings into court for
Speaker 4: these people for this evidence that we found, then Stephen
Speaker 4: Avery and Bringdon Dascy have a real chance instead of
Speaker 4: having to go through the rigg row of the corrupt
Speaker 4: Wisconsin's Fox Valley court system. That's why this book is
Speaker 4: so important.
Speaker 3: Right, Why do you think someone that was instrumental in
Speaker 3: having Stephen Avery released in the first place from the
Speaker 3: wrongful conviction, Michael grees Back from the Innocence Project. I
Speaker 3: interviewed him and he said that Stephen Avery's guilty, and
Speaker 3: then I asked, does he not deserve another trial? And
Speaker 3: everything that I've looked at, and not being as professional
Speaker 3: the qualified to make that conclusion, I still think in
Speaker 3: light well have everything I've looked at that he deserves
Speaker 3: another trial. What what do you make of Michael Greesback,
Speaker 3: his his position in this, his role in this, and
Speaker 3: yet he thinks that he does not deserve another trial.
Speaker 3: What do you make of that?
Speaker 10: Well, Dan, if you want to get into Michael Gresback,
Speaker 10: when when Stephen was exonerated, and he was the one
Speaker 10: who approached Slot and Schlagger and said, hey, we got
Speaker 10: some some miscarriages of justice going on in my office.
Speaker 10: Dennis Vogel and Tom Kasseric just sent had they were
Speaker 10: just found out that Stephen had been sent off for
Speaker 10: eighteen years in prison. Now, Michael Grisback at this point,
Speaker 10: at this during this time, I believe he was doing
Speaker 10: what was right to prompt an investigation. But there's something
Speaker 10: that Michael Grisback failed to tell you during an interview,
Speaker 10: and that's I don't know if you discussed how his
Speaker 10: brother was handling avery civil suit. Magistrate Federal Magistrate Judge
Speaker 10: William gris Back, he was actually handling the Steven Avery's
Speaker 10: civil suit. That's why he had to recuse himself because
Speaker 10: Michael was deposed. Now William gris Back announced his resignation
Speaker 10: and recused himself on September twenty sixth.
Speaker 4: But there was some.
Speaker 10: Big things happening in Madison at the state Capitol during
Speaker 10: this time, and that was with Lawton Schlagger distributing these
Speaker 10: pamphlets that that discerned tunnel vision, jail house snitches, electronic
Speaker 10: monitor of juvenile, contaminated evidence, and all these things were
Speaker 10: going on on these pamphlets. Now you have to you
Speaker 10: have to take into consideration. Lautenschlager took over the Avery
Speaker 10: Task Force on August thirtieth, so you have twenty six
Speaker 10: days later, William gris Back is recusing himself. And this
Speaker 10: is only days after Peg Lottenschlagger distributes these pamphlets. Now,
Speaker 10: this commission that Peg had had restarted when she took
Speaker 10: over to Avery Task Force and we redesigned it to
Speaker 10: her own liking and her own doing. These people in
Speaker 10: Bob again were prosecutors, judges, crime lab people, attorneys, et cetera.
Speaker 10: And William Grisback, being a federal magistrate judge, would be
Speaker 10: privy to the political information going on. He's at a
Speaker 10: high tier level to know what's happening in the Attorney
Speaker 10: General's office and with this political agenda. So when he resigns,
Speaker 10: he wants to make it apparent that he'd done it
Speaker 10: because Michael Grisback was deposed, but it's really because he
Speaker 10: didn't want no part of Lattenschlagger's political agenda that was
Speaker 10: going on. And he tells gris Back to stay away
Speaker 10: from the case, and Griesback didn't never touch it. Michael
Speaker 10: Grasback never touched it after this, and I think those
Speaker 10: two brothers were protecting each other. But where Michael Grasback has,
Speaker 10: I've lost all and you know, I don't have no
Speaker 10: respect from anymore. He didn't ever blow the whistle on
Speaker 10: what was happening with the pamphlets that were distributed by
Speaker 10: Lattenschlagger that could have protected not only Steven Avery, but
Speaker 10: Brenda Dassy, you know, and this was their political agenda
Speaker 10: to not have people who wrongfully convicted. But here you've
Speaker 10: got a federal magistrate stepping down because he would be
Speaker 10: in a position to know everything that's going on with
Speaker 10: this commission controlled by Lattenschlager. And for for that, for
Speaker 10: Michael gris Back to to just play like he doesn't
Speaker 10: know what's going on there. He wasn't allowed to prosecute.
Speaker 10: He stayed away from the case. That's because his brother
Speaker 10: is telling him, Hey, you need to get away, you
Speaker 10: need to dissociate yourself with this. And Michael Grisback, you know,
Speaker 10: if he knew what his brother knew and they've talked
Speaker 10: about it, then yeah, he would have no choice right
Speaker 10: now but to say that Steven Avery is guilty because
Speaker 10: that's protecting him and his brother. So there's there's some
Speaker 10: questions there, and I asked Michael gris back these questions
Speaker 10: in my book. You know that he needs to step
Speaker 10: up and answer for this, and he needs to he
Speaker 10: needs to stand accounting for for this dissociation of the
Speaker 10: murder trial from Holiday.
Speaker 4: Well and this this might be a good segue And
Speaker 4: I forgive me, dan if if you've got other things,
Speaker 4: but this might be a good segue for what you
Speaker 4: talked about for Brendan, because you know this kind of
Speaker 4: of thing, and you mentioned that during the intro that
Speaker 4: how how Brendan was, you know, could have been let
Speaker 4: go the very month if they hadn't have done what
Speaker 4: they'd done. So I just want to make sure we
Speaker 4: hit that, you know, before the end of the program.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if that's something you may want
Speaker 4: to discuss an hour since we we had on it.
Speaker 3: But sure certainly.
Speaker 4: So, Jad, Okay, what.
Speaker 10: Exactly one A are you referring to at the moment, Like, just.
Speaker 4: Well, then, how how Brendan because of the rules that
Speaker 4: that they've put in place, you know, on February twenty third,
Speaker 4: days before, and we don't have to do it now.
Speaker 4: I just want to make sure because that's an incredibly
Speaker 4: important part that nobody knows about yet. So I I
Speaker 4: you know, I don't. I'm sorry. I didn't want to
Speaker 4: step up on Dan's toast, but again, I want to
Speaker 4: make sure we discussed that because that's huge.
Speaker 10: Right And before we get that, Dan, there's a little
Speaker 10: backstory here that making a murderer. Supporters and viewers and
Speaker 10: watchers around the globe. We're talking millions and millions of
Speaker 10: people that aren't aware of Okay, we're My book exposes
Speaker 10: the timeline of Jerry Beuting's involvement with He was a
Speaker 10: golden ticket. I mean, one one can vouch for me
Speaker 10: for this. There were twenty members ceated to the Avery
Speaker 10: Task Force, and they were seated in a bipartisan effort
Speaker 10: by the State Capitol. And when you you became a
Speaker 10: member on this, I mean that gave you privileged access
Speaker 10: to whatever was happening politically with Stephen Avery's exoneration, and
Speaker 10: gave you privileged access to the Attorney General and the
Speaker 10: high end people working in the Department of Justice in
Speaker 10: the State Capitol. And Beauting was one of these people. Now,
Speaker 10: my largest concern that I want to drive home about
Speaker 10: Jerome Butting is that he had the golden ticket. He
Speaker 10: was one of twenty people seated and was colleagues like
Speaker 10: Norman Gan who who introduced this blood theory, was Jerome
Speaker 10: Butting's colleague for two years. And then for them to
Speaker 10: come back on a murder trial and prosecute and defend
Speaker 10: Stephen Avery while they're sitting on a commission with PEG
Speaker 10: law is the most severe conflict of interest. You have
Speaker 10: Grysback who recused himself. You have a federal judge that
Speaker 10: recused himself. You have a lot of Mark Rower that
Speaker 10: wasn't allowed to participate in this prosecution because they had
Speaker 10: dealings with the exoneration or were attached to the political
Speaker 10: agenda dexoneration of Stephen Avery. And we're talking to exoneration
Speaker 10: of nineteen of Stephen's nineteen eighty five charge in two
Speaker 10: thousand and three when he's exonerating. So if you're working
Speaker 10: that in politically are the legalities of it? You shouldn't
Speaker 10: be touching this murder charge, especially when you're on a
Speaker 10: commission with PEG Lattenschlagger and this is one of the
Speaker 10: biggest misconceptions of making a murder. And I'm going to
Speaker 10: throw it out right here and right now, people. This
Speaker 10: has been one of mine and one's heart. This hurdles
Speaker 10: to overcome, and people were brainwashed into how much of
Speaker 10: a hero Dean Strang and Jerome Butden are shown to
Speaker 10: be on making a murder. But I mean, Ken Kratz
Speaker 10: says on a radio show when he introduced his book
Speaker 10: that Butting helped even film and direct making a murder.
Speaker 10: And this is concerning because the only reason the state
Speaker 10: of Wisconsin allowed this trial to even be filmed. And
Speaker 10: I got the document. It's a fact. I mean, this
Speaker 10: isn't no bs, it's not no bullshit. This is a fact.
Speaker 10: Thomas J. Fallon wrote a letter to Judge Patrick Willis,
Speaker 10: who presided in Stephen Avery's case, and said, Hey, we
Speaker 10: need to video the defense team of Stephen Avery, record
Speaker 10: them so Stephen Avery can never claim ineffective counsel. And
Speaker 10: that is the only reason that the creators were allowed
Speaker 10: to even film this trial, because the state asked for it.
Speaker 10: And again you go back to Dean string being best
Speaker 10: friends with Thomas J. Fallon, and you go back to
Speaker 10: Butting in the pocket of Logs Luttenschlagger, And it's just
Speaker 10: so disturbing of of how this is misconceived by all
Speaker 10: these people. They don't realize Jerome Butting is politically attached
Speaker 10: to this case and and all they see is just
Speaker 10: that he's a hero. But when you do the research
Speaker 10: and I laid the timeline out, it's not just like
Speaker 10: a day or two days. He's attached to Lottenschlagger for
Speaker 10: four years. He's he's he's on Lottenschlager's commission where Stephen
Speaker 10: Avery has hired on Beauting and Strength to defend him.
Speaker 10: It's it just blows my mind that nobody can see
Speaker 10: the severe conflict of interest. And I mean it was
Speaker 10: a bipartisan effort, you know, of all this task force,
Speaker 10: but ones right there in the heart of the politics
Speaker 10: in Wisconsin. And one maybe you can confirm that you
Speaker 10: know that these people shouldn't have been working the murder
Speaker 10: trial if they were involved in the exoneration politically or
Speaker 10: any other way period.
Speaker 4: And that's correct. And you know, when it comes to judges,
Speaker 4: when it comes to attorneys, you know, everyone says, well,
Speaker 4: they're supposed to be you know, non partisan and non
Speaker 4: bias and all this stuff, but everybody knows it's human.
Speaker 4: And if it weren't for all these little idiosyncrasies and
Speaker 4: all these things hanging in I might actually buy that. Argued, Okay,
Speaker 4: well maybe it's just but you know, one is existence too,
Speaker 4: is coincidence? Three is patterned? How many threes, fours, five, six, seven, eighteen,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety nine, one hundred and two. How many connections
Speaker 4: do you need before there's finally a pattern to where
Speaker 4: you say, okay, something else is going on here. Now
Speaker 4: we're not saying exactly what, but you have a pretty
Speaker 4: good idea. And again, what's the motive behind that? You know,
Speaker 4: you've got people that are accusing themselves, but other people
Speaker 4: who should have accused themselves that didn't. Yet when you've
Speaker 4: got instances, I mean, just this simple stuff. You know,
Speaker 4: Jerry Beauty is supposed to be this forensic expert and
Speaker 4: he doesn't cross examined, you know, it doesn't get the
Speaker 4: bullet thrown out. You've got I can't remembers foul in
Speaker 4: or gun and said, well, we have to make the evidence,
Speaker 4: you know, fit in order for it to make sense.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, these things they should have been
Speaker 4: absolutely thrown out of court. And and there's an instance
Speaker 4: when Colburn's on the stand and he said, well, I
Speaker 4: got called away because somebody, you know, so a group
Speaker 4: of people found some evidence at the Marabeau Caves Park.
Speaker 4: They never said, oh, well what evidence? What did they find?
Speaker 4: Go look at the look at the transcript. It's like, okay,
Speaker 4: well I got pulled away. Of course, it's always Colborn
Speaker 4: pulled away to say evidence what you never mentioned it,
Speaker 4: You never asked. It's like, you know, these simple things
Speaker 4: that these these quote unquote top attorneys should have done,
Speaker 4: they didn't do. And then you find out all about this.
Speaker 4: Then you find out how they tie in and again,
Speaker 4: uh you know, Chad, Yeah, when people hear this story
Speaker 4: about about uh uh you know, the the child videos
Speaker 4: heaped surveillance and what they could have done to Brendan
Speaker 4: and didn't, it's gonna blow your mind. He was telling
Speaker 4: me about, and it blew my mind. I was like,
Speaker 4: how did anybody not know about this? But then again,
Speaker 4: how did they not know about all this stuff? So
Speaker 4: I mean, Chad, if you want to if you want
Speaker 4: to tell that again, I don't know what time we
Speaker 4: got remaining, but that that story that needs to be told.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if you've got any other questions, Dan,
Speaker 4: but I like I said that that one's gonna that
Speaker 4: was gonna blow people away.
Speaker 3: Well let's hear it.
Speaker 10: Okay, Okay, Now this this is part of the time
Speaker 10: when line of it kind of puts into perspective that
Speaker 10: when Stephen Avery hires Jerome Butting and Dean Straing as
Speaker 10: their defense council, it connects Butten too, Lautenschlager still on
Speaker 10: this commission, whenever, whenever Dassy actually is allegedly coerced in
Speaker 10: his confession, and if you go to the charter statement
Speaker 10: of the Wisconsin Criminal Justice to Study Commission, and this
Speaker 10: is what replaced the Avery Task Force. Butden gets on
Speaker 10: making a murder and says says, yeah, I was part
Speaker 10: of the Avery Task Force. But what Butden purposely leaves
Speaker 10: out is that he and peg Lattenschlager changed it into
Speaker 10: something else, and it was still happening at the time
Speaker 10: of Stephen Avery's pre trial and the time of Brendan's
Speaker 10: coercion and when Stephen was in jail. Now, now, the
Speaker 10: charter statement says the goal of our commission will not
Speaker 10: be to point fingers or assigned blame for past mistakes,
Speaker 10: as some might understandably fear. And while the wrongful conviction
Speaker 10: of Stephen Avery and others are a major stimulus for
Speaker 10: this commission, the Commission's role will not to be identify
Speaker 10: specific cases of roomful conviction. Okay, so what that's doing
Speaker 10: In their charter statement, they're saying that Manuchuac County, we're
Speaker 10: not We're not gonna state they had anything to do
Speaker 10: with Stevens, with with his with with the the wrongful conviction,
Speaker 10: and Lautenschlagger like her December seventeenth, two thousand and three
Speaker 10: report was to protect Manuchuauc And now you have Butting
Speaker 10: coming on board. Button was seated in the beginning by
Speaker 10: Mark Gundrum in two thousand and three to save money
Speaker 10: for the state. And when he settles out, what you
Speaker 10: have Butten doing is preventing Stephen Avery from going forward
Speaker 10: with this federal civil suit. So Beuteen's job is accomplished now.
Speaker 10: Now what people don't realize is that Butten will sit
Speaker 10: there and lie. He lies in his book, He lies
Speaker 10: in super Lagger's magazine. He says that Dean Strain got
Speaker 10: him involved in this case, when really, if you go
Speaker 10: back to making a murderer. On episode three, starting at
Speaker 10: nineteen minutes, Stephen Avery places a phone call to Stephen Glenn,
Speaker 10: who is his civil suit attorney, and Stephen Glenn tells him,
Speaker 10: I have two attorneys that I have in mind for you.
Speaker 10: If you settle out, you can get this money and
Speaker 10: you can proceed with this criminal case. But Glenn does it,
Speaker 10: never tell Steven Avery that he's sitting on the commission
Speaker 10: with peg Lutenschlager Sos Strain. Who is it even involved
Speaker 10: in this at the time. Why does it take Dean
Speaker 10: Strain to get Jerome Butting involved? When Glenn and Butting
Speaker 10: our meeting from August, September, October, November, December, January, February
Speaker 10: and March all the way up until Brendan's confession, their
Speaker 10: meeting every month and meeting in person, why does it
Speaker 10: Glenn just ask Butting in person, and this is what
Speaker 10: he did. But Beden will lie and say that Dean
Speaker 10: Strain brought him involved, got him involved in the case.
Speaker 10: But that's not the way it works. So there's a big,
Speaker 10: a big discernment for for Brendan's confession. It's on March first,
Speaker 10: but if you back up to February twenty third, St.
Speaker 10: Jerome Butting was the person who drafted and crafted the
Speaker 10: model policy for PEG Lawton Schlaggers juvenile monitoring of electronic
Speaker 10: juvenile against juvenile. So so with her doing this and
Speaker 10: Butte and doing it for her, they could have protected
Speaker 10: Brendan dacy, but both of them failed to do it.
Speaker 4: So, I mean, the main point we want to stress
Speaker 4: here because obviously you know, we're just two guys, right,
Speaker 4: We're trying to get this information out there. But one
Speaker 4: of our biggest hurdles has been the fact that you're wrong.
Speaker 4: Beauting is this hero Well you just heard him say,
Speaker 4: and you know you can go right to the tape.
Speaker 4: You can go right to the episode and see it.
Speaker 4: So I'll give you an example. If if there's a
Speaker 4: dead guy in the room, just died of a single
Speaker 4: gun shot wound, copped us in and there's a gun
Speaker 4: between Chad and I, I say I shot him. Chad
Speaker 4: says no, no, no, I shot him. Okay, there's a
Speaker 4: chance logically that neither of us shot him. But regardless, okay, regardless,
Speaker 4: one of us is lying, all right, so hopefully everyone
Speaker 4: followed that. Now, if you take now, and there's more
Speaker 4: information in the book, okay, if if Jerome Butting is
Speaker 4: tied with Pegg Lauerschlager, peg Laus Schlogger is tied Wood
Speaker 4: Fallon found is tied with Ken Kratz, ken Kratz is
Speaker 4: tied in with you know, the man talk in Calument
Speaker 4: Police and Law Enforcement Department. So now you've got Jerome Butting,
Speaker 4: who is in bed well, all these people that hero right,
Speaker 4: all right, But he says that it was Dean String
Speaker 4: right before all this happened, right before they could have
Speaker 4: saved Brendan from that recording and from being prosecutor or
Speaker 4: persecuted and prosecuted. Yet they didn't. So you've got Dean
Speaker 4: String and Beauting in this where he says that Strang
Speaker 4: was the one that called him. Yet Stephen Glenn, who
Speaker 4: was Stephen avery sibil suit attorney, who was the one
Speaker 4: who got him out, okay, got him out and got
Speaker 4: him exonerated on that first one. And you see him
Speaker 4: right in the beginning of making a murder. He says, well,
Speaker 4: you would have thought that Stephen Avery was the worst
Speaker 4: cruidal in the world, after all the appeals that he lost,
Speaker 4: and if it weren't for the fact that a couple
Speaker 4: of new evidence came forward in DNA testing, he probably
Speaker 4: still would have. Actually, I think he would have just
Speaker 4: gotten out last year on his original case. But now
Speaker 4: you've got Stephen Glenn, Okay, who's also on all these committees. Okay,
Speaker 4: miraculously again, small world, even though there's five point seven
Speaker 4: million people in Wisconsin. Stephen Glenn, who's helping Stephen Avery
Speaker 4: get out the first time, call up your Rome beauty,
Speaker 4: who's tied in with all these people, and yet your
Speaker 4: own beauty says it was Dean Strang Again, just like
Speaker 4: the cop with the bullet logic can dictate that regardless
Speaker 4: of whether or not something was done, one of them
Speaker 4: is lying. So you have to decide which one that is,
Speaker 4: who's telling the truth and why or who's lying and why?
Speaker 4: Because if Stephen Gwynn all right is calling your own
Speaker 4: beauty before any of this starts and beauty ties in,
Speaker 4: that forms the circle that I've been talking about this
Speaker 4: whole time. And if that's the case, and that's the
Speaker 4: the stackers of the deck, do you realize what we're
Speaker 4: looking at here? And then again it goes to what
Speaker 4: are they hiding? What did that investigation stop? I you know,
Speaker 4: I kind of get in chills thinking about it, because
Speaker 4: if what we're saying, all right does coincide, and I'll
Speaker 4: be the first foment. You know what, every single these
Speaker 4: every single one of these hundreds of hundreds of things
Speaker 4: that could be just a coincidence. Okay, but I have eyes.
Speaker 4: You have eyes. You realize that if you're old enough
Speaker 4: and been around this world long enough that you know
Speaker 4: that even that there's a phrasing law enforcement, there's no
Speaker 4: such thing as a coincidence. What are we dealing with?
Speaker 4: What are they hiding? Why did this judge all of
Speaker 4: a sudden again slam this down? And this is the
Speaker 4: stuff that we need as a nation, as a world
Speaker 4: to get behind this and to find out the truth.
Speaker 4: Because the only thing that's going to make this happen
Speaker 4: is one of three things that they actually go through
Speaker 4: the court systems, is somehow in victorious that you have
Speaker 4: an outside force like a US attorney or the Attorney
Speaker 4: General actually look into this and trump these people and
Speaker 4: what they can do and what they can hide, or
Speaker 4: we get enough people around the world and enough public
Speaker 4: pressure to say no, this needs to be investigated, This
Speaker 4: needs to be done, because that is the thing that
Speaker 4: throughout mankind has moved mountains, and that is what this
Speaker 4: book is about, and that's what needs to be done.
Speaker 4: So that I can't stress that enough that people need
Speaker 4: to read this, They need to understand this, They need
Speaker 4: and they need to know that even if you think
Speaker 4: Road Beauty is a hero, at least look at this
Speaker 4: with an open mind. At least look at all the
Speaker 4: connections first and then make your decision. Because any everyone thinks,
Speaker 4: you know, when anything in the world, you know, there's
Speaker 4: a phrase that says great guards are full of people
Speaker 4: that said, it can never happen to me. Well, guess
Speaker 4: what happened to Stephen Avery. It's happened to people that
Speaker 4: I know personally, which is how I got involved in this.
Speaker 4: So you know that that's what we need to bring
Speaker 4: to light. So sorry for taking up so much time,
Speaker 4: but again that's the essence of this whole thing, and
Speaker 4: that's why we're fighting so hard, is because this could
Speaker 4: happen to anybody, and these men need to be freed,
Speaker 4: and we don't know what's going to go through the
Speaker 4: judicial system. So we need to be as American citizens
Speaker 4: and just human beings to get this out there and
Speaker 4: to make this right.
Speaker 3: I want to ask this question because we have very
Speaker 3: little time. I want to ask about the possibility of
Speaker 3: the making a murderer fan base, because the murking making
Speaker 3: of a murderer fan base just just one little tidbit
Speaker 3: of information. A person like Alec Baldwin. I don't know
Speaker 3: how influential he is, but we've seen what celebrities can do.
Speaker 3: Their money and their support and their fan base can
Speaker 3: help as well in the court of public opinion. How
Speaker 3: likely is making a murderer going to discern what you're
Speaker 3: saying and jump on your ship, or is the making
Speaker 3: a murderer fan base demanding another trial could be effective?
Speaker 3: Tell me what you think about this prospect as.
Speaker 10: Far as having anybody to back U up in the
Speaker 10: media or anything. What really needs to happen is before
Speaker 10: any trial ever goes forward, these questions need to be
Speaker 10: answered before we're going forward. I mean, Jerome Beden could
Speaker 10: have literally walked across the street from Dean Strang's office
Speaker 10: in March. He was there on March first, the same
Speaker 10: day that Brendan Dacy was interrogated that same month. He
Speaker 10: could have walked directly over to Lottenschlager's office and said, hey,
Speaker 10: you know that model policy for the juveniles I just
Speaker 10: drafted for you on the twenty third, like literally seven
Speaker 10: days ago. We needed to protect this kid. But Ltton
Speaker 10: Schlagger was nowheres to be found. Yet she's signing off
Speaker 10: on the evidence of the bullet in the garage and
Speaker 10: Jerry Beden has never blown the whistle on Lottenschlagger to
Speaker 10: this day when we know all the Making Murderer fans
Speaker 10: know that Latton Schlagger is a force to be reckon with,
Speaker 10: but Jerry will deny his affiliation with it. But that's
Speaker 10: when my book comes in. Facts. You cannot change facts,
Speaker 10: and the facts are they had an affiliation for four years.
Speaker 10: It wasn't just oh, he's gonna hang out with her
Speaker 10: because he's an attorney and they do this. No, he
Speaker 10: had the golden ticket designated by Mark Gundrum to get there.
Speaker 10: So as far as whoever gets behind us, whether it's
Speaker 10: Making Murder fans, Alec Baldwin, anybody, I mean, just any celebrity,
Speaker 10: what really needs to happen. These questions need to be
Speaker 10: answered that. My book asks Lautenschlagger, ask his gris back,
Speaker 10: ask his crass, ask Jerome Beden. I mean, I mean
Speaker 10: Fallon needs recused more than anything in the world in
Speaker 10: this case right now. I mean, if we're gonna proceed forward,
Speaker 10: we're laying the facts out, we need somebody to stand
Speaker 10: behind us and just have a voice, make an impact
Speaker 10: or or are they they'll never come home. And I
Speaker 10: believe that Steven's innocent. I believe Brendan Dacy's innocen. I
Speaker 10: wouldn't invest in anything into this if I didn't believe
Speaker 10: in their innocence. I mean, if you look at the
Speaker 10: facts in the timeline, it's a political come and it
Speaker 10: needs to be exposed immediately.
Speaker 4: Well the thing the thing I'll say on that ahead,
Speaker 4: but well I wanted to say on that me know,
Speaker 4: in politics like it is. Actually was watching comedian Doug
Speaker 4: Stanhope talk about this past election and he said, I
Speaker 4: voted for Gary Johnson because he follows my Twitter and
Speaker 4: that's the problem with democracy. And there's another scene in
Speaker 4: the movie Tommy Boy where where Dan Ackroyd sided in
Speaker 4: the contract simply because Live TV is there and he's
Speaker 4: take it everybody's watching it. And then it goes to
Speaker 4: that diners says, hey, you guys want to watch this
Speaker 4: the American Gladiators and they say, oh, let's watch American Gladiators. Now.
Speaker 4: When when Nick and a Murderer came out, it was
Speaker 4: a huge fervor, but just like anything, and I said,
Speaker 4: I think, I said, this is my first or second
Speaker 4: video that I made that you know, it's eventually going
Speaker 4: to die down because it doesn't because the core proceedings
Speaker 4: are so much and you know, they've taken so many hits.
Speaker 4: But hopefully with this new evidence that we found, this
Speaker 4: will generate an even even bigger force. But you know,
Speaker 4: and again you know, we're just we're just two guys.
Speaker 4: You know, we're trying as hard as we can to
Speaker 4: get some sort of you know, national platform, because again,
Speaker 4: unless we've got the backing of the people, but you
Speaker 4: can't like or dislike that, which you do not know.
Speaker 4: We need to get this out there. You need to
Speaker 4: spread the word. You know, Hey, Christmas is coming up.
Speaker 4: You got you know, Black Friday and cyber money. Buy
Speaker 4: this book and give it to your relatives if you
Speaker 4: if you're at all interested in making a murder if
Speaker 4: you've ever had somebody you know get screwed over by
Speaker 4: the court system, Hey, this is this is something for them,
Speaker 4: you know. And and again this is something to where
Speaker 4: you know, everybody needs to be concerned because that it
Speaker 4: will never happen to me. When it all of a
Speaker 4: sudden happens to you, it really hits home. And just
Speaker 4: like we were saying earlier, when you're behind bars, you
Speaker 4: have to wait. It's not like I'm gonna sit there
Speaker 4: wait for three years and get to watch football and
Speaker 4: American gladi No, you're sitting in a prison cell while
Speaker 4: the courts churn. And Chad knows this very well, and
Speaker 4: I've had my own personal experiences with that. But we
Speaker 4: need to have that same fervor that we had before.
Speaker 4: And I truly believe that if people find out about this,
Speaker 4: this is going to make Watergate look like a Harper
Speaker 4: Valley PTA meeting. So we can get celebrities, great, if
Speaker 4: we can get national exposure, great, But whatever happens, we're
Speaker 4: going to need the public's backing because the one thing
Speaker 4: I'll tell you about politicians, just like with that American Gladiator,
Speaker 4: you get a politician on an issue that that twenty
Speaker 4: people call in and say I want you to vote
Speaker 4: this way, they will vote that way. Even though their
Speaker 4: district is one hundred and seventy thousand people that will
Speaker 4: get their attention. It will make them change, even though
Speaker 4: I guarantee you the people you know in the Attorney
Speaker 4: General's office and the course, they won't. But that doesn't
Speaker 4: mean we can't get people in power that are above
Speaker 4: them to make that change and to make this happen.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you, gentlemen. Our time is up.
Speaker 3: We were talking about Steven Avery retrial deny to end
Speaker 3: your book about Steven Avery and the Beyond Avery Road.
Speaker 3: So I want to thank you Chad Spencer Keller and
Speaker 3: one test crew that's an alias Pseudium. I want to
Speaker 3: thank you gentlemen for coming on for this compelling program.
Speaker 3: And just briefly, Chad, can you tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit about the Facebook page or how they might contact
Speaker 3: you or look at this information. Tell us about the
Speaker 3: website's Facebook pages, tell us about that.
Speaker 10: Anybody interested, they can go to ww dott Productionsouth dot
Speaker 10: com and I'll comment a link on the blog site
Speaker 10: where they can they can purchase the book everything, so
Speaker 10: it'll be up on this interview in the comment.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to thank you very much Chad Keller
Speaker 3: and one test crew for incredible evening, incredible interview. Thank
Speaker 3: you very much. You have a great night. Hope to
Speaker 3: talk to you gentlemen again soon.
Speaker 4: Good Night, thank you.
Speaker 10: Thank you for having us Dan.
Speaker 3: Good night,