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I hope to expand the show even more than it

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already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome

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everyone back to the Peginiana Show. John Fieldhouse is back.

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How's it going on? John?

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Speaker 2: Good Well?

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Speaker 1: Sir cool? All right, We're going to read this article

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here by Martin Van Krevel called Warren Migration. It appears

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in I think it's volume ten of There Will Be War,

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which was put together by Jerry Pornell. Yes, sir, okay, no,

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I was going to ask you, you know, to talkers,

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you know, give us an introduction into Van Krevel than

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Parnell the work, because you're the one who introduced me

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to you know, to this work.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, go right, ed, sure, Yeah, just real brief

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introduction that I know we're going to talk a different

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time about Pornell. But this is Volume Pornell of Jerry

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Pornell's There Will Be War Jerry Pornell. You can look

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up on Wikipedia who he was. He's most famous as

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being a science fiction writer. Most of his career he

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was basically doing strategic forecasting and you know, future studies

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for the Air Force and NASA and whatnot. He was

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actually the guy in charge of the Human Factors Lab

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during the Apollo projects, of the guys who assessed astronaut

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candidates whether or not they would become astronauts. Which the

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most important thing about that is this is a guy

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who wrote sci fi, who literally selected who would get

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to go into space. And he never actually opened any

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of his speeches with that, which tells me more than

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anything about the man. So Jim Bang commissioned him to

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write a bunch of well, originally one volume. It was

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a anthology of called their Rulby War, which would be

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about the future of armed conflict. Excuse me. And port

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Nell took a combination of science fiction writing, some of

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his own stuff, some other people's stuff, along with nonfiction essays,

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you know, actual real world essays, some of his own stuff,

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a lot more of other people's stuff, and it was

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based around a specific topic. He either some cases he

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would solicit stuff and say, hey, write me something on this.

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Usually it was somebody he went out there. He either

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got their work that they'd already written, or he said

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he wanted something on a specific theme from people he

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you know, both fiction and nonfiction that he said thought

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had somebody really important to say with that, and either

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they wrote it specifically or in the case of this,

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I think it's more of a case of Van Krebld

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took what he had on there on the shelf and

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probably just turned it into an essay that meant these requirements. Well, sorry,

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I'm a little sick, so I'm a little short of breath,

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so I have to pause in between. So yeah, there

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was one volume, then they did another eight volumes after that,

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up to nine volumes. Wall came down in ninety one

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and there wasn't much of a market for people talked

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about war in the future after ninety one to about

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I don't know, ninety eight ninety nine, because we all

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thought that we had reached the end of history and

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there would never be war again, and we were always

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proven wrong anytime people think there will be an end

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of war, because again, only the dead have seeing the

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end of war. The tenth volume came out twenty ten,

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sometime Fox Day. Castilla House got the rights to republish

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the first original nine volumes from Pornell. Jerry actually, doctor

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Pornell included a new intro to a number of those books,

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and like I tell people, just reading the intro and

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conclusions to those anthologies, this is some of the best

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writing on strategic thinking that I could recommend to anybody.

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So you republished those nine books, and then he published

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a tenth volume, which this comes from. And here we

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are sadly Jerry Pornell died. I believe in twenty seventeen.

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Castilia House has released one or two new anthologies of

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the same type under different supervision. They've actually talked about

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releasing an eleventh volume because they have the rights from

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Portnell's state to do stay. But that hasn't happened, so

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that's the there will be war. I didn't know if

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you had any other questions or comments, but that's.

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Speaker 1: Sir, No, that's great. You can still go on Amazon

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and by the paperbacks and everything, so they are available.

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But you know you can also find if you look online,

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you can find them. Why don't you give us an

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introduction about Van Kraut and yeah, this essay in particular.

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Speaker 2: Sure, okay, Martin van Krevelt, he is in Israelia's story

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and as he is Israeli. Yes, he is Jewish. Born

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in nineteen forty six in the Netherlands, Rotterdam era area.

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Excuse me, obviously, that's a really interesting time to be

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born as a you know, a Jewish person in the Netherlands.

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I've heard it alleged that his parents he was actually

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born in a concentration camp. I don't know if that

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was or wasn't the case. Keep in mind that immediately postwar,

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a lot of the refugee centers were literally they took

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people who were in camps of various types and moved

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them next door into wherever the into the barracks wherever

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the guards have been located. So when you say he

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may have been born in a concentration camp, that doesn't

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necessarily mean behind the wire, but that's his birth. Nineteen

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fifty they moved immigrated to Israel. Van Krebled actually has

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an interesting biography that was published by Castalia House with

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an audiobook for version that sadly I think Amazon has

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taken down, but if you can get the chance to

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get it from Castellia House. Really great book for an

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intellectual historian. Which back up a second. The reason I

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recommend this and one reason I tell people to go

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read Van Krevel is he's probably the premiere scholar of

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insurgency and non state warfare in the world right now.

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So that's what makes him important. That's why he's taught

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all kinds of you know, unusual places like the Marine

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Corps Amphibious Warfare College. He's taught a lot at either

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him directly or you know, using his materials, as taught

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at US Army or excuse me you a United States

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Special Operations Command. He's taught at the Mesa's Institute. So again,

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he's an interesting guy. He will engage with lots of

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people who wouldn't necessarily you would think you would engage

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with but he was back to his bio. Yeah, he

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immigrated Israel nineteen fifty. Weird time. He was born with

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a cleft palada that made him unfit for military service,

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which in Israel it's always been kind of weird to

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not serve because the implication zero a draft dodger. But

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being medically exempt, he got to finish his bachelor's degree early,

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and he actually got to start grad school early and

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go abroad to get his PhD and come back, and

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he was probably the youngest PhD in Israel at that time,

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just because again he didn't have to go through military service,

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which he went to London School of Economics. His PhD

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thesis was on excuse me, the Behrmacht in Greece and Italy.

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Excuse me, Greece and Yugoslavia during the Second World War,

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which bring how he got into military history, which people

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point out the one scholar in his country of his

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time without a military record. It's kind of a little

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ironic that he's the guy most known for military history,

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but that's what he got into. Long story, Throughout his career,

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he's always been known as sort of the guy who

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either not necessarily pushed the envelope. But the guy who

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took hardcore scholarship into sort of like the peripheral subjects

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of military history that civilians don't generally pay attention, like

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you looked at Command in War literally has a book

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called Command in War which deals just that, the history

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of command, What is the nature of command? How do

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we develop commanders? How have we attempted to develop are

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people attempted to develop commanders in the past? What are

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the consequences? He got another book on logistics, the History

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of Military Logistics, which it's been pointed out that at

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that time it was only the second scholarly textbook on

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a scholarly research excuse and scholarly book on military logistics

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in the world. There was somebody in the Austro Hungarian

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Empire produced a book earlier in the twentieth century, but

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nobody really paid attention to that. And again Logistics Dry's

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War and Army travels on that stomach as a remind everybody,

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nobody likes to talk about logistics, but things like food

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and ammunition matter a great deal if you want to

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win a war, especially if you have you know, advanced

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weapons system. If you can't, I tell people. It's you

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can have a tank, you can have a fighter plane,

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you can have the best, you know, systems in the world.

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But if I can't, you know, put fuel and ammunition

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in your tank or a fighter playing which you have

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is a giant paperweight. He also did he did a

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history of the Israel, the Israeli military. He did some

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really cool work that I actually used in my grad

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school research about the development, the professionalization, development of officer

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training in the West, which is really interesting because long

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story is short, most of the West we pretend that

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we're imitating Prussian German military culture while really doing a

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lot of French military culture combined with a lot of managerialism,

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and that sort of accounts for a lot of our

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problems in war. Probably the thing he's most known for

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is ninety one. He did a book called The Transformation

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of War that gets into again what it says, you know,

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what it says in the box, transformation of war from

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a traditional conventional war into unconventional war. And then what

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we were beginning to see in ninety one, which we've

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very much seen since then, is non state actors becoming combatants.

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You know, groups like Hesbalat and whatnot. And the you know,

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the breakdown of the station between when is a true

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state and what is a non state actor. From there,

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he sort of expanded his thesis into the rise and

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decline of the state, which is how he got in

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with the mesis guys. And at a certain point in

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between all those things, he started writing about, you know,

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history of equality in the West, history of feminism, stuff,

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which really made a lot of people unhappy because essentially

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he was accused of becoming an extreme far rightist, whereas

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he would just say he's being intellectually honest based upon

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the evidence. So he's extremely critical of filminism as well

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as a lot of the complaints in things like mine,

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affirmative action and minority politics. He's known a lot for

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criticizing things like that. So, yeah, that's the man, that's

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the work. And again part of why we're why we

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know about this guy, why he became so influential. Is

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Israeli academic or Israeli academia rather, the language of academics

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in Israel is English. Obviously they speak Hebrew as the

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first language, but keep in mind throughout Western countries there

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are only so many languages that are used for high

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level academics, because again, if you have a small population

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language then nobody else speaks. It doesn't do you any

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good to just do academic in your language, so you

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tend to do one of the the big four or five,

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like English or French or Russian or Spanish. In Israel

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uses English academics. Are you used as English language for

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academics rather, So that's how we got to know him.

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This book, or excuse me, this essay. It's deals explicitly

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with the concept of war and migration. There is titled

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War and Migration. The very short I would say conclusion

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to it if you have you know it's too long

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for you to read, which we're going to read it

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for you, is that war and migration are fundamentally the

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same things. If you have mass migration, especially assisted mass

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migration into an area with a host population has no

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connection to you, where you're a foreign outside force migrating

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in whether you intend to or not, substantively, that it's

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no different than warfare. And I think that pretty much

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sums it up. Sir.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that his family moved to Israel

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in nineteen fifty and he would come to the conclusion

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that a mass migration into an area would be considered war.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he actually deals with that issue directly.

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And here one of the things he brings up in

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his biography is his father joked routinely that they moved

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to Israel just because they didn't want to feel like

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they were Jewish anymore. He comes from a fairly assimilated family.

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He describes himself as a Dutch Calvinist who happens to

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be an atheist Jew. He says that explicitly in his biography.

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He's one of those people who would say it's almost

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sort of an accident of ancestry that his family is Jewish,

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and he's not anti Semitic in the slightest. He's not,

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you know, he's not a self hating Jew in any

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sense of the word. But he's somebody's very honest that,

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you know, Judaism is it's not really a defining aspect

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of himself so much as it's the religion that defined

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so much civic life in his country. And even then

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he said he said his family would probably much rather

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have stayed in the Netherlands, but it wasn't, you know,

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exactly the greatest time to be there for anyone and

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the fact that he could get to the kid to

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Israel sponsored to go to Israel, his family could get

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sponsored to go to Israel, whereas they couldn't get sponsored

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someplace like the United States. Is just the way it

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happened in the accident of history.

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Speaker 1: And didn't he write a book that basically pretty much

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got him banned from Germany?

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Speaker 2: Well, my understanding is the book is actually illegal in

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Germany or they, or at least I know the original

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cover is illegal called Hitler and Hill Hitler in Hell

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excuse me, got some shortness of breath because I'm sick

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right now, Yeah, which is also published by Castali House.

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When I spoke to him, he described it as an

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autobiography of Hitler, because he said, you know, as a

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military historian who did so much of World War Two,

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everybody said he needed to do a biography on Hitler.

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And he made it clear that it's like, what was

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he going to say new that nobody else had said?

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And he said he decided he was going to do

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it as a fictional autobiography. The thing is one of

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the issues of any time you actually understand the target

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of your research, you very much have to make whatever

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effort you can to see from their world view, their perspective.

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You know, one of the things that our friend Dale

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Cooper has gotten a lot of hate for recently is,

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you know, explaining what the issues were concerning Germans in

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Germany in nineteen forties. Well, Van Krebbled is one of

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the people who did this a lot earlier, probably a

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lot deeper than any of our friends have done, and

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consequently he made a lot of enemies. It's just Van

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Krevelt being Jewish, being Israeli, and his parents being survivors

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of the Holocaust. You can't really throw many stones at him.

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At least nothing will really stick.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: And sorry, Matt, if I'd have known you were sick,

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I would have postponed this.

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Speaker 2: I it's complications of medication. I did not know until

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like twenty minutes ago.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm gonna start reading and stop me whenever.

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It seems like mister Parnell throws gets a little boomerash

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in the introduction here, So if you want to stop

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at any time there, Like I.

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Speaker 2: Said, I love Pornell and I tell people to read them,

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but not all of his stuff is the greatest stuff ever.

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Speaker 1: All right, So This is Parnell's editor's introduction to Warren

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Migration by Martin van Krubbled. Martin Van Krubbled is arguably

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the world's most pre eminent military historian. Here he presents

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us with an analysis of Warren migration and reaches the

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inevitable conclusion war is often indistinguishable from migration, although sometimes

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it takes longer. The Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jendhal, himself

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an assimilated child of immigrants, says that migration without the

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intense of assimilate assimilate assimilation is invasion, an act of war.

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It is often said that the United States is a

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nation of immigrants. This is true enough, but it is

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a nation created by the melting pot by assimilated immigrants

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who entered legally and came to be Americans, or at

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least were not opposed openly opposed to the idea. As

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Bill Buckley said, one could study to become an American

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in a way that one could not become Swiss or

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a Swede. Assimilation was not always easy, and for freed

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slaves it was difficult, but it was generally the goal.

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The story of America and migration is as old as America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just going to say, just the idea

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that in a European country you can't become you know,

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Swiss or Swedish. You know, we've seen a complete attack

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on that principle in the decade since then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would wonder if I wonder if Pornell would

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still feel the same way about after witnessing what's been happening,

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whether he'd feel the same way about all.

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Speaker 2: This probably more insistent about it being war.

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Speaker 1: The more recent migrants do not all accept assimilation as

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a goal. They seek to preserve their diversity. E pluribus

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unham is not the goal of the Caliphate. Open rejection

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of toleration without dimitude is proclaimed. The United States faces

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numerous decisions after migration, immigration, and assimilation. Doctor van Krevel

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gives us crucial information on the history of migration from

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the times before the Trojan War to the present. Starting

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the body of the text Warren Migration by Martin van Krevel,

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Warre and migration have always been closely related. The relationship

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was recorded as early as thirteen hundred BC, when we

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were informed the Israelites followed Moses out of e Egypt

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to embark upon the enterprise that ultimately led them to

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the promised land of Canaan. As you will no doubt recall,

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they promptly conquered it, and since that time, for over

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thirty three hundred and fifteen years, the link between war

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and the large scale movement of people from one place

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to another has never been broken. Yet, despite the way

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these mass movements of people have had a profound effect

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on human history, there has never been a systematic effort

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to explore the ways in which the two great phenomena,

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war and migration interact. This essay is a preliminary attempt

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to rectify the situation one from the Exodus to the Greek,

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from the Exodus to the Great Trek. The Old Testament

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tells the famous story of the Israelites, which begins sometime

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around eighteen hundred BC, when Canaan was visited by famine.

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This caused a patriarch, Jacob and his extended family to

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travel to Egypt, where they and their offspring were initially

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welcomed but later enslaved. Four centuries later, having multiplied considerably,

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a leader by the name of Moses arose. Under his

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divinely inspired command, they left Egypt. He's jumping out and

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ignoring a big part of the story. But that's okay.

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I would hope most people know the story. After crossing

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the Red Sea, they marched into the Sinai Desert, where God,

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who was waiting for them, gave them the Pentateuch. From

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the desert, they proceeded very slowly to what is known

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today as the Kingdom of Jordan. It is said that

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Moses must have been the first general staff officer, for

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who else would have required forty years to cross what

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is actually a very small desert.

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Speaker 2: It's a professional inside joke.

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Speaker 1: And after finally arriving on the threshold of the Holy

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Land four decades later he died. His successor, Joshua, who

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subsequently proved to be a formidable military commander, buried. Moses

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then led the Israelites across the river and is a

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Canaan proper. These intrepid immigrants swiftly conquered the land and

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settled it after killing or enslaving most of the inhabitants.

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Whether or not the tale of the conquest of Canon

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Is historical has been debated for generations, and particular scholars

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have questioned whether the Israelites could realistically have fielded a

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six hundred thousand man army, not counting the women and children.

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Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion, fancied himself a

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biblical scholar and considered six thousand to be a more

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acceptable figure. His view brought him into immediate conflict with

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Israel's Orthodox Rabbis, who consider literally every word of the

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Old Testament to be gospel truth. That's a funny, uh,

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And keep in mind the context of in Israeli.

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Speaker 2: He's basically pointing out that internal society being divided between

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those who are religious and those who aren't. And the

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biggest issue in modern Israel has always been that non

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religious people are always making religious based arguments that they

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don't believeing in any other circumstance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even I read Shahak's book Jewish History Jewish Religion.

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He makes that point throughout. But for our purposes it

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does not really matter whether the story is historic, historical,

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or symbolic. Still less do the details concern us. What

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is important is that after all these years, the story

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of geographical relocation and conquest is still commemorated by all

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Jews around the world. In other words, migration was war

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in fact, insofar as ancient war frequently involved not only

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soldiers in armies, but entire nations who left their homeland

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mitmann undros undewagen with man and horse and wagon. As

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the Germans say, war was migration.

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Speaker 2: And this is more than anything, is the most important

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part of the essay. If you got this, highlight this

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right here, I would tell the reader that is the

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fundamental thesis of this essay.

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Speaker 1: The exodus was far from the only episode of its kind.

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For example, the Dorians are believed to have entered Greece

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from the north in the years around eleven hundred BC,

393
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as with the conquest of Canaan. The question of whether

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the Drian migration really took place or not has been

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much disputed. Thucydides has the following to say about the

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topic of the introductions to his book on the Peloponnesian War,

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quoting the country now called Hellas had no settled population

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in ancient times. Instead, there was a series of migrations,

399
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as the various tribes, being under the constant pressure of

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invaders who were stronger than they were, were always prepared

401
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to abandon their own territory, and the belief that day

402
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to day necessities of life could be secured just as

403
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well in one place as in another. They showed no

404
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:43,039
reluctance in moving from their homes, and therefore built no

405
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cities of any size or strength, nor acquired any important resources.

406
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Where the soil was most fertile, there were the most

407
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frequent changes of population, as in what is now called Thessaly,

408
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in Boetia, in most of Peloponne except Arcadia, and in

409
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others are the richest parts of Hellas for in these

410
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fertile districts, it was easier for individuals to secure greater

411
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powers than their neighbors. This led to disunity, which often

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caused the collapse of these states, which, in any case

413
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were more likely than others to attract the attention of

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foreign invaders. There's a lesson for today, isn't it. I

415
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guess that's the eternal lesson.

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Speaker 2: Very little in human nature has ever changed.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting to observe that Attica, which because of

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the poverty of our soil, was remarkably free from political disunity,

419
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has always been inhabited by the same race of people. Indeed,

420
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this is an important example of my theory that it

421
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was because of migrations that there was uneven development elsewhere.

422
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For when people were driven out from other parts of

423
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Greece by war or by disturbances, the most powerful of

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them took refuge in Athens. As being a stable society.

425
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They then became citizens and soon made the city even

426
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more populous and it had been before, with the result

427
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that later Attica became too small for inhabitants, and colonies

428
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,400
were sent forth to Ionia.

429
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Speaker 2: Without getting too bogged down in the weeds of Greek history,

430
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for an American especially, it's important to understand Greece obviously

431
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,000
number one. The area extended far beyond what's modern Greece, right,

432
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so Asia Minor, you know, the whole peninsula that makes

433
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the bulk of Turkey was historically part of Hellas, and

434
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it started to extended north and east into the Balkans.

435
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,599
But anyways, that are very jagged coastline, which means, despite

436
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,960
being a relatively small country, you have huge coast lines throughout,

437
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some of which actually lead to inland rivers that go

438
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pretty deep inland. And within the country itself proper, you

439
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,720
have a few very fertile areas combined with lots of

440
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areas that are either relatively mountainous, very rough, or somewhat arid,

441
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,039
so it's a weird population center. A situation in Greece

442
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,359
historically where you have some areas that support large populations,

443
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a coastline that you can use to go basically anywhere

444
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in the world, and large parts of the interior of

445
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the country that are just rough that nobody really wants

446
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to live there.

447
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Speaker 1: There are other examples besides the Israelites and the Dorians,

448
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the Etruscans migrated from Armenias to central Italy around eight

449
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to fifty BC. According to a recent study, the.

450
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Speaker 2: Guy Gales's outs pronounced I don't know if these are

451
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,759
the same gales from Ireland in Scotland, That's what.

452
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Speaker 1: I was wondering. The Gaels launched numerous attacks on the

453
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Hellenistic kingdoms and the Balkans and Asia Minor in the

454
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third and second centuries BC, although they were ultimately repulsed,

455
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and in fifty eight BC, as Caesar tells us, the

456
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Helvetti wished to migrate from their homeland in southern Germany

457
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to southeastern Gaul and asked him the newly established Proconsul

458
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of Gaul, for permissions across Wano occupied territory on the way.

459
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After he refused to grant it, they fought him, were

460
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badly beaten, and were forced to turn back. That failed

461
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migration triggered a whole series of wars, which ended in

462
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the Roman conquests of the entirety of Gaul within six years.

463
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The nomadic Arabs, who occupied much of the territory of

464
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the Byzantine Empire in the six and eighth centuries, provide

465
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another informative example. So did the Magyars, whose original home

466
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was in the southern Ukraine and who reached what is

467
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Hungary today in the tenth century AD. Their westward migration

468
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was halted in nine fifty five when they were defeated

469
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,839
at the Battle of Lechfield near present day Augsburg. The

470
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,400
Mongol and Manchurian conquests of China twelve oh five to

471
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,599
seventy nine and sixteen eighteen to sixteen forty four, respectively,

472
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,319
also led to large scale migrations as various people retreated

473
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:55,559
to the west, displacing other nations in turn.

474
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Speaker 2: And just for contact. Say, the huns advance into western

475
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,759
Europe probably was a consequence of much earlier expansion from

476
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:09,720
what is currently Mongolia, you know, putting pressure in their homelands.

477
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:10,920
The Hawnish ownlands.

478
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:16,279
Speaker 1: The largest and most famous migratory episode, if that is

479
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,599
the correct label for a process that stretched out over

480
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,599
several centuries, was the so called Vulgar vander Rung, the

481
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,400
migration of peoples. It's entirely transformed Europe from about the

482
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,680
middle of the second century AD to the middle of

483
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,599
the sixth century, destroying countless old polities and creating an

484
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,319
equally large number of new ones. Driven out of the

485
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,079
east by their more formidable neighbors, wave after wave of

486
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,640
barbarian tribe crashed into central and western Europe. Some bypassed

487
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,200
the Roman empires to the north, whereas others crossed its

488
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,440
frontiers and entered its territory to wage war on the inhabitants.

489
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:56,079
The Saxons reached Spain, the Visigoths southwestern France, Spain and Portugal.

490
00:29:56,519 --> 00:30:01,720
The Vandals invaded North Africa. The Burgundyans, whose original home

491
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:04,039
was in Poland, traveled to the land that is now

492
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,279
named after them Burgundy. The Huns, whose original habitat was

493
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:13,279
the caucas the Caucaus Caucasus. Is it Caucasus or I

494
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:14,319
never remember how to pronounce it.

495
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: I think it's usually pronounces Caucuses.

496
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because that makes it sound plural. That's why

497
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:21,960
it doesn't sound right in my head.

498
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is where we get the word Caucasian.

499
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: Though, correct.

500
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

501
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: The Huns, whose original habitat was the Caucasus and Central Asia,

502
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,039
traveled west, slaying and conquering everyone and everything on their way,

503
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:37,519
until a coalition of Romans and Visigots finally stopped them

504
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:42,079
at Cologne in four fifty one. But the defeat of

505
00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:44,920
Attila did not, by any means, put an end to

506
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:48,480
the series of migrations. The Huns were followed by the Lombards,

507
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:52,079
the Lombards by the Bulgars, and between them they changed

508
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,559
the maps and the very name place names of Europe.

509
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just so they know the Huns. Obviously, the

510
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,519
Huns we know about who probably had from Central Asia

511
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:05,599
putting pressure again, probably an expansion out of what is

512
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:10,240
now Mongolia. But the Voltagurv on the Rung that's literally

513
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:14,079
the Germanic people's migrations and which is a huge part

514
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:17,400
of what destroyed the Roman Empire. It's also why we're

515
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,920
speaking a Bastardized Germanic language in English.

516
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: All these migrating people as well as many others that

517
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:30,240
could be mentioned were relatively simple tribal societies. In terms

518
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:34,480
of organization, technology, and military, civilization, literature of the arts,

519
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:37,079
and the like. They could not match the settled, more

520
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,359
civilized societies they encountered and often conquered. The Book of

521
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,720
Joshua describes Canaan as the land bristling with fortified cities,

522
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,799
and yet they were quickly defeated by the nomadic Israelites

523
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,480
at a time when Roman power, encompassing practically all the

524
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:55,480
lands around the Mediterranean, was approaching in Zeni. Rome's enemies

525
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:58,960
in Germany and Gaul consisted of endlessly shifting tribes who

526
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,960
lived in wooden huts. Four centuries later, the Germanic Visigoths

527
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:14,880
sacked Rome. The Huns Ammianus Marcellinius Marcellinus says were a

528
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:19,480
race savage beyond all parallel. He described them in distinctly

529
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,000
unfavorable terms, quoting they are certainly in the shape of men,

530
00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:28,119
however uncouth, and are so hardy that they require neither

531
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:31,079
fire nor well flavored food, but live on the roots

532
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:33,160
of such herbs as they get in the fields, or

533
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,680
on the half raw flesh of any animal, which they

534
00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,880
merely warm rapidly by placing it between their own thighs

535
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,960
and the back of their horses. They never shelter themselves

536
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,559
under roofed houses, nor is there even to be found

537
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:50,279
among them a cabin thatched with reeds. But they wander about,

538
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,160
roaming over the mountains and the woods, and accustom themselves

539
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,759
to bear frost and hunger and thirst from their very cradles.

540
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: Just to a point when he talks about, you know,

541
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:04,880
sitting on stuff on horseback in order to make meat

542
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:06,720
edible if you salt it, and then you do that,

543
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:07,559
it's called jerky.

544
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:16,519
Speaker 1: The anonymous Roman author of de Rebus Belicus, writing early

545
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,519
in the fifth century a d. Speaks of other migratory

546
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,240
tribes of bang barbarians. Baying may have been all that

547
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:26,519
these barbarians were capable of, but they did so with

548
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,160
sword in hand. Although the process might take time, such

549
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,559
as the five hundred and fourteen years separated the Simbrian

550
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,559
War from the Sack of Rome, very often the barbarians

551
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:41,759
eventually managed to defeat their more developed opponents and take

552
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:45,119
over their lands. There are two cardinal factors that explain

553
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,960
the frequent victory of the simple and less civilized migrants

554
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:54,440
over their more sophisticated stationary opponents. First, while the settled

555
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,680
societies enjoyed technological superiority in terms of jewels of energy

556
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,799
available per capit, the primary sources of mechanical energy were

557
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:06,920
stationary devices such as windmills and water mills. When it

558
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,920
came to war, in battle, which are intrinsically mobile, both

559
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,480
the civilized soldiers and their barbarian enemies depended entirely upon

560
00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,920
the muscles of men and beasts. As a result, most

561
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,480
of the technological advantage enjoyed by the civilized societies was

562
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:23,119
irrelevant because it could not be brought to bear on

563
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:29,679
the battlefield. Second, the migrations were usually long drawn out processes.

564
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,280
Though armed invasions and battles were frequent, there were also

565
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,719
long periods of peace. Therefore, there was plenty of time

566
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,360
for both sides to take each other's measure and to

567
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,639
learn from each other. Renegades and captives taken a war

568
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,039
often played a large role. This exchange of information almost

569
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:49,400
invariably were to the benefit of the less civilized parties.

570
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,840
For example, the Mongol armies which conquered China and came

571
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,320
close to overrunning Europe in the mid thirteenth century, included

572
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,719
many specialists who utilized technologies learned from the Chinese, including

573
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,800
various types of siege engines. Two hundred years later, the

574
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,960
Ottoman Turks did the same in their westward drive towards

575
00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:11,440
Constantinople and beyond.

576
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really important part to understand that

577
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,800
migration is conquest. The assimilation by the migrants is a

578
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,400
huge part of how they win the Siege of Constantinople,

579
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,400
most of the artillery pieces were actually manned by Christians

580
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:33,840
and basically all of their cannons were produced by Christians.

581
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,719
The Mongol con quest of China, all the siege engines

582
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,679
were you know, various Chinese people, usually ethnic Chinese specialists.

583
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:49,320
And even then the Germanic migrants migrations, we know just

584
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:53,079
upon some weird y half of groups you see in

585
00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:55,840
parts of Europe that they had to have picked up

586
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,519
and assimilated some amount of people in their migrations and

587
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,320
integrated them into the great cultures. So you know, in

588
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,599
boasts of the words, the ability to assimilate is part

589
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:05,920
of how you conquer the enemy.

590
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,519
Speaker 1: The migratory phenomenon was nuts. That's yeah, that's uh, learning

591
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:20,639
the language, looking like them, dressing like them and sometimes.

592
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:23,039
Speaker 2: Key technologies, right, like one of the most obvious ones

593
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,519
or if you were talked to a military store and

594
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:28,760
maybe not to the layman, is you know, different ways

595
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,519
of putting devices on horses or animals, you know, like

596
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:35,360
I think it was the Onns who actually introduced the

597
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,239
stirrup to Western Europe, which you know may not sound

598
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,400
very important to us, but understand, until you put a

599
00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:43,760
stirrup on the horse or on the saddle, you know,

600
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,320
a cavalryman couldn't use a lance and couldn't charge with that,

601
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,599
which meant that prior to that, cavalry was mostly something

602
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,000
used for scouting and on the screens the outside of

603
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:55,920
the formation, where suddenly, with a stirrup you start getting

604
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,480
bigger and bigger cavalry and eventually like heavy armored knights

605
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,679
in the Middle Age. So yeah, technology is a huge

606
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,760
part of what spreads and it's not something that's readily

607
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,679
apparent at the time.

608
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: A lot of times, the migratory phenomenon was not solely

609
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:14,480
a Eurasian one. Africa also abounds with stories of armed migration,

610
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,119
some historical, others mythological. Three thousand years are said to

611
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,239
have passed since the Bantu tribes began expanding out of

612
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,199
their original homelands in what are today Cameroon and Nigeria,

613
00:37:27,559 --> 00:37:29,440
and now they can be found all over the central

614
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,039
and southern parts of the continent. The Zulu established Quasulu

615
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:38,199
Nation in South Africa after migrating southward along Africa's east coast.

616
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,320
Many of these migrations bear strong resemblances to the exitus

617
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,119
described in the Pentateuch. In every case, the movement was

618
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:48,880
said to be have been initiated by one or more gods.

619
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,440
On their way, the migrants witnessed many different miracles which

620
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,920
confirmed that there were in fact they were in fact

621
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,559
doing the right thing. One of the best known African

622
00:37:57,639 --> 00:38:01,400
migration tales is that of Ashanti Marshall tribe that migrated

623
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,400
westward from Ghana into the Ivory Coast, who on their

624
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,400
way received sikadois the Golden Stool, a royal and divine

625
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:11,840
throne believed to have housed the spirit of the Ashanti people.

626
00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:17,119
One of the last and most peculiar African migrations was

627
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,920
the Trek of the Boors. The Bores were European settlers

628
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,199
of Dutch and Hugenot descent who left Cape province in

629
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,840
order to remain independent in the face of a growing

630
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,639
British presence there. The Trek lasted from eighteen thirty five

631
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:33,760
to eighteen forty six and was unusual in the sense

632
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,480
that the Boers set out to settle in lands inhabited

633
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:40,840
by less civilized and less technologically advanced Kafirs, mostly Bantu

634
00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:44,920
and hot and taught tribes, thus reversing the usual pattern

635
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,480
of migratory conflict. But like these less civilized antecedents, the

636
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,280
Bores never hesitated to use their superior arms against anyone

637
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,320
who stood in their way. The Trek also resembled other

638
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,400
previous migrations in the sense that the migrants were strict

639
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,840
Calvinists who believe they acted under divine guidance. Visiting the

640
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,440
region around Pretoria back in late nineteen ninety four, I

641
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:11,760
saw the famous monuments of the war trekkers. It must

642
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,400
be said, to the credit of the African National Congress

643
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,480
who took over South Africa after apartheid, the region's new

644
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,400
rulers have not demolished it yet.

645
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: Keep in mind these things were written in twenty seventeen

646
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,760
at the latest tenets. Before you know, a lot of

647
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,400
destruction and part of it, I think has to do

648
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,480
with the fact that the More Monument is sort of

649
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:36,760
in the middle of nowhere, and urban blacks probably don't

650
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,719
want to visit that area.

651
00:39:40,639 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: So migration was war and war was migration. Aside from

652
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,039
relatively equal situations in Africa and North America, when tribal

653
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,639
societies fought each other, militarized migrations were chiefly a matter

654
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:56,360
of less developed mobile societies attacking more developed, settled civilizations.

655
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,880
That likely explains why in the more technol logically advanced

656
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,880
parts of the world, migration wars came to an end

657
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,039
in the fifteenth century, as the history of the American

658
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:09,800
West illustrates. Once tribal warriors were able to lay their

659
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,440
hands on modern weapons, particularly firearms, they quickly learned to

660
00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:16,159
use them just as well as their opponents. But what

661
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,280
they could not do was produce the weapons and require

662
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,519
ammunition for themselves. The development of firearms was a decisive

663
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:27,119
shift in the balance of power towards more technologically advanced societies,

664
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,599
particularly those of the West. How long this advantage will

665
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:33,559
last as an open question, but there are indications that

666
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:39,559
it is already on the wane. Section two Ethnic cleansing.

667
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,679
Thucidides illustrated how the process works in both directions. Migration

668
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,519
usually leads to war, but war can also lead to migration.

669
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,800
For after war takes place, one of the common consequences

670
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,880
is to force migration that is currently known as ethnic cleansing.

671
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,639
Some of the earliest migrations of this kind are recorded

672
00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:03,760
in the Old Testament. The Assyrian kings had an established

673
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,159
policy of exiling half the population from the lands they conquered.

674
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,239
One they followed after conquering the Kingdom of Israel. A

675
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,880
century later, the Babylonians sent part of the population of

676
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,360
Judah into exile after subjugating that kingdom. The small quasi

677
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,559
Jewish communities in Kurdistan, as well as the larger pre

678
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,639
nineteen forty eight ones in Iraq, are said to consist

679
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:27,599
of descendants of the Israelites forced to leave Israel by

680
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,440
the Assyrians. Both empires have made a habit of bringing

681
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,760
in other peoples to take place of those that they

682
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,119
had exiled. Thus, the Samaritans, a small community of under

683
00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:41,480
a thousand people who currently live in Israel and the

684
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:44,559
West Bank, are believed to be descended from settlers brought

685
00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:47,679
into the region by its Assyrian conquerors during the seventh

686
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,360
and sixth centuries b C.

687
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: And part of this too, the unstated part, is internal

688
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,599
Israeli politics about who's really Jewish, which has always become

689
00:41:56,639 --> 00:42:02,119
an issue, especially after the last major Jewish populations have

690
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:06,000
migrated to Israel in the United States. So it's you know,

691
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:09,280
they're looking at smaller and smaller populations and arguing amongst

692
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,119
themselves so whether or not they are really Jewish and

693
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:13,400
whether or not they can really be assimilated into Israel.

694
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: The spectacular release at the British Museum that originally decorated

695
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,000
the palace of the Assyrian king Senecareb reigned seven oh

696
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:26,840
six to sixt eighty one BC at nine at ninevah

697
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,760
provide us with some idea of what Assyrian ethnic cleansing

698
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,719
operation may have looked like. The subject of the release

699
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,519
is the siege of Lakish, a city in the Judean

700
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:38,880
Plane in seven oh one BC. In addition to the

701
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,480
military operations, they also show us what happened to the

702
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:45,440
prisoners and deserters who left the city. Men were decapitated.

703
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:48,119
There are a lot of headless corpses lying around or

704
00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:51,639
impaled women and children were left more or less unharmed,

705
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:54,360
and were taken away by the victors, accompanied by wagons

706
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,480
laden with lout. Since Lakish was never rebuilt, the captives

707
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,239
presumably once a place, from whence they never returned. This

708
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,199
suggests that women and children represented the majority of those

709
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,119
who went into exile, although accounts from the Old Testament

710
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,960
suggest that on at least some occasions men were spared

711
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,920
to share their fate, very.

712
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: Often depending on the fane skills their ability that were

713
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:17,360
wanted by a conquer.

714
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: The Romans preferred not to exile those they defeated, but

715
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,039
to subjugate rule and levy taxes on them. Ciso called

716
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:31,199
such taxes a perpetual penalty for defeat. However, during the

717
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,199
period between two hundred BC and one a d they

718
00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:38,440
regularly took enormous numbers of prisoners. These prisoners, men, women

719
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:42,440
and children, were then transported to the slave markets, especially

720
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,599
the famous ones of Roads and Delas, and sold there.

721
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,159
Entire communities, including great cities such as Corinth and Carthage,

722
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,960
were left almost devoid of inhabitants. This conquest, best based

723
00:43:55,039 --> 00:43:59,199
slave trade brought a wide variety of different tribes, cultures,

724
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,800
and religions together and transformed Rome, the greatest slave market

725
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,039
of all, into a new Babylon. The men who followed Spartacus,

726
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:11,639
the Thracian gladiator who led the great slave volts against

727
00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:14,360
Rome in seventy three to seventy one BC, came from

728
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,199
many different lands. Spartacus's goal was for them to all

729
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,800
return to their countries of origin, but his men refused,

730
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,519
preferring to stay in Italy where they could kill, pillage,

731
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:31,000
and rape. They were eventually defeated at Bronzanium by eight

732
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:37,360
legions led by Marcus Licinius Crossus, and hundreds were crucified

733
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,760
along the Appian Way. Spartacus himself is believed to have

734
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,239
been killed in the battle, but his body was never found.

735
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:46,679
Speaker 2: That's part of why we say there's only one successful

736
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:52,760
slave revolt in history, that's Haiti. And again the Spartacus

737
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,000
revolt could potentially have been successful, but they decided they

738
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,239
just wanted to hang out and loiter in the area

739
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,119
that they just escaped from, so they were destroyed in

740
00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:01,519
the open.

741
00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: In sixty six to seventy AD and again in one

742
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,679
thirty five to thirty seven eighty, the Jews of Palestine

743
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,320
rose against their Roman conquerors. The Romans suppressed both rebellions

744
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,199
and responded by engaging in extensive ethnic cleansing. Hundreds of

745
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,559
thousands of people were driven out, and, to use an

746
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:23,199
expression coin, nearly two thousand years later, Jerusalem was made Judenfrei.

747
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:27,239
Jews were prohibited from living in the city and even

748
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,760
entering it. Such episodes are by no means rare in history.

749
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,639
The reason so many Jewish examples exist is that despite

750
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:36,880
the forced migrations they experience, they managed to preserve their

751
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,559
religion and their ethnic identity. Other peoples forced to leave

752
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:44,280
their homelands were either less fortunate or less determined. That

753
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,760
does not necessarily mean that Jews kept their race pure, however,

754
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:51,280
for as modern genetic studies show, Jews settled in different

755
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,679
countries tend to genetically resemble the host populations more than

756
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:55,519
they do each other.

757
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: And again, He's willing to stick a thumb in the

758
00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:02,760
eye of sort of mainstream opinion in his own country.

759
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,199
Speaker 1: Not all force migrations were the results of war. For example,

760
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,199
throughout the Middle Ages and the early Modern period, Jews

761
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,480
were regularly expelled from many countries, but this had little

762
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:16,920
to do with war. During the century and a half.

763
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,840
After the Reformation, there was reciprocal expulsions of Catholics by

764
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,800
Protestants and Protestants by Catholics throughout Europe. The most famous

765
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,719
example of these forced migrations was Louis the Fourteenth decision

766
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,360
to revoke the Edict of Nantes in sixteen eighty five,

767
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,039
which resulted in four hundred thousand Hugenots being exiled from France.

768
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,599
Even in Switzerland, the Cantons were divided on the basis

769
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:45,119
of being Catholic or Protestant, and much smaller force migrations

770
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,880
took place. Large scale ethnic cleansing again raised its ugly

771
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,880
head during the early years of the twentieth century. The

772
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,480
Balkan Wars led to the expulsions of Muslims from the

773
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:58,519
Balkan states that broke free of the Ottoman Empire. Soon

774
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:01,000
after the outbreak of World War One, the Turks, fearing

775
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:03,880
lest the Christian Armenians might aid and have bet the

776
00:47:04,119 --> 00:47:09,599
Russian enemy, enacted the first modern genocide. Hundreds of thousands

777
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,440
of Armenian men were massacred. The rest of the population

778
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:14,840
was expelled and driven to the Syrian desert, where they

779
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,199
were left to die. The Turks also expelled the Jews

780
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,800
of southern Palestine and drove them from the drove them north,

781
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:26,440
although some were taken to Alexandria Egypt by American ships.

782
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,320
No sooner had the Great War ended than the Turks

783
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,039
again initiated a massive ethnic cleansing campaign, this time against

784
00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:36,920
the Greeks of Western Anatolia. This region has been home

785
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,199
to important Greek communities for over three millennia, but barely

786
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,079
five thousand Greeks remained there today.

787
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would see Dale Cooper's got a really good

788
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,559
episode with Jacko Willink about the Armenian genocide. But one

789
00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:52,840
of the consequences of this is that's why you have

790
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,679
ethnic Armenian communities throughout the former Soviet Union, not just

791
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,280
in Armenia proper, but other places. You have ethnic Armenia

792
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,320
and communities are big in Israel, you have them big

793
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,440
in a number of other countries. And even then, the

794
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,000
issue of who was considered Greek, the Turks actually called

795
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,280
them Romanis, I literally called them Romans, which was a

796
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,159
Greek speaker of the of the Eastern Orthodox Church. So

797
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,079
a lot of times that's the only thing that firmly

798
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:28,400
defines who's Greek in Asia minor, just because most of

799
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,719
the people who are Turks or call themselves Turks aren't

800
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,840
even really descendant from the Turkish people proper. There, you know,

801
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:37,559
descendants of Greeks who converted and had some amount of

802
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:42,480
intermixing with outsiders. So again, war, our migration is war.

803
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 1: The period nineteen nineteen nineteen twenty one also witnessed the

804
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,159
expulsion of Hungarians from Armania and of Germans from what

805
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,960
had been West Prussia and Cilicia but was claimed by

806
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,159
Poland after the war. Twenty years later, the jack Boot

807
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,840
was on the other foot, having defeated the Polls. Hitler

808
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,920
had expelled the masses of them from from Western Poland

809
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,519
and replaced them with Germans. He also expelled the Jews

810
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:11,400
of Alsace, Lorraine, driving them into France, after which they

811
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,800
were subsequently re expelled to the gas chambers in Eastern Europe.

812
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,960
As these events touch upon one of history's most infamous crimes,

813
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,280
it is important to note that the series of complicated

814
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,480
campaigns of expulsions directed primarily against Europe Europe's Jews, Gypsies

815
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,199
and Slavs that ended in the murder of millions could

816
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,159
never have taken place if it had not been for

817
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,840
the cover provided by war. In Hitler's mind, the war

818
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,519
and the end loos sung de Judenfraj or final solution

819
00:49:41,639 --> 00:49:45,159
of the Jewish Question, were linked. Speaking to intimates, in

820
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:47,320
August nineteen forty one, the Fear of the Third Right

821
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,639
claimed the fact that so many Germans had lost their

822
00:49:49,679 --> 00:49:53,039
homes after World War One justified the humane expulsion of

823
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:57,119
Germany's Jews. Five months later, at the Vance Conference, the

824
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,599
policies that lay the foundation for the Holocaust were worked

825
00:49:59,639 --> 00:50:00,400
out detail.

826
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again that needs to be very much understood

827
00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:06,880
by Americans. I'm not in any way justifying any of

828
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,320
the you know, the genocides of the twentieth century. But

829
00:50:10,679 --> 00:50:13,039
keep in mind that there was a situation post World

830
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:17,159
War One where large portion, maybe even the majority, of

831
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,679
ethnic Germans in Europe lived outside of Germany, Austria and

832
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:22,679
Switzerland proper.

833
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:28,599
Speaker 1: There were more forced migrations to the East. After being

834
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,400
unexpectedly attacked by his ally, Hitler, in violation of the

835
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,920
nineteen thirty nine mallets off Ribbentrop pack Stalin ordered the

836
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,440
evacuation of the tatters. Should that be is that tatters

837
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,880
or should be pronounced totter? The totters totter.

838
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, the half breed descendants of Mongols.

839
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: Okay from the Crimea. His rationale was the same as

840
00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:57,400
many others before him. He feared that totters might join

841
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,320
the advancing Germans. But the expulsion of the totter from

842
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:03,679
was nothing compared to the huge migrations it took place

843
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:05,639
from nineteen forty four to nineteen forty six.

844
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to his point, a large number of totters

845
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,800
did side with the Third Reich. Yeah. And again these

846
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,800
are the half free descendants of Mongols.

847
00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: As the Soviet Red Army marched west towards Berlin, it

848
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,519
was often joined by local militias in the eastern European

849
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:25,719
countries it occupied. Twelve million Germans were driven out of

850
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,079
their homelands in Romania, Hungary, Ygoslavia, Slovaia and Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Poland,

851
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,559
West Prussia, East Prussia and Cilicia, and about one six

852
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:37,199
of them died in the process. As the war came

853
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,039
to an end, tens of millions of people were on

854
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:43,079
the move across the continent. Refugees, slave workers, former concentration

855
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,320
camp prisoners, prisoners of war. Almost all had nothing but

856
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,079
rags to their names and were trying to either escape

857
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:52,079
the advancing Russians or simply return home.

858
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again that this part cannot be really emphasized

859
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,760
enough because it's something Americans we like to think that,

860
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,280
you know, the war ended nineteen with this beautiful parade,

861
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,800
and suddenly there was peace throughout Europe, which is complete

862
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,920
and total bullshit. You know, obviously everything the Red Army

863
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,000
was doing, you know, in their territory of operation, which

864
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,440
again Daryl Cooper has a really good episode on this

865
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:19,480
called The Anti Humans. But we tend to think of

866
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,480
countries and their borders on the ground being very concrete,

867
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,599
while ethnic groups are kind of soft, whereas Eastern Europe

868
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:29,360
it's sort of the opposite. Ethnic groups tend to be

869
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,519
fairly cohesive, fairly distinct. But even if you have a

870
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:35,840
distinct country, you know, where does the border end. That

871
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:39,880
changes a lot throughout history, especially in Eastern Europe. To

872
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:46,119
the point with Ukrainians, there's all the Ruthenian people absolutely

873
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,039
exist throughout history. The numbers of them that are called

874
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:54,000
Ukrainian is always a matter of debate. But because Ukraine

875
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:57,360
literally means the borderland. But where exactly is the Ukraine, Well,

876
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,719
it's somewhere between the eastern part of Russia and you know,

877
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,559
Central Poland, and that's gone back and forth throughout history,

878
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:06,760
which is part of the current fight in Eastern Europe.

879
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,920
That to be clear, I don't have any side in

880
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,039
that fight. But again, there are ethnic groups that are

881
00:53:12,119 --> 00:53:15,800
on both sides of different lines throughout the world, throughout

882
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,400
Eastern Europe, with huge number of ethnic Germans that have

883
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:24,880
been there for centuries, who Styalin forcibly moved west towards

884
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,199
into Eastern Germany or excuse me, into what became the

885
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,639
Democratic Republic of Germany East Germany. And keep in mind

886
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:33,559
some of these groups had been gone for so long

887
00:53:33,679 --> 00:53:38,360
that they never even bothered to speak proper modern Germany,

888
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:40,679
which was an invention of the you know, the nationalist

889
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,519
movements of the nineteenth century. There had been German languages,

890
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:46,119
there are German languages, but you know, a formal German

891
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,760
hadn't been established. So these are people, in some cases

892
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,800
had hard times even communicating in proper German, who were,

893
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,320
you know, uprooted from places they'd been for four hundred

894
00:53:55,639 --> 00:54:00,440
years or so. So it is impossible for Americans understand

895
00:54:00,519 --> 00:54:04,079
the amount of force migration that took place after the

896
00:54:04,159 --> 00:54:05,719
inter fighting in World War Two.

897
00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: Well, he talks about people trying to escape the advancing

898
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:14,159
Russians here famously, there are many reports of Well, there

899
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:17,760
are reports of a few camps that were liberated and

900
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:24,400
the prisoners chose to escape with the Germans rather than

901
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:26,599
wait for the Russians to show up.

902
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: There are multiple cases, in some cases maybe half or

903
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,280
more of the prisoner population going with them.

904
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: Yep, the force migrations and ethnic cleansing did not end

905
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,039
in nineteen forty five. The nineteen forty seven Indo Pakistani

906
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:46,159
Wars divided British India into two different countries and caused

907
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,719
millions of people terrified by the interreligious violence to cross

908
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,440
the newly established frontier between India and Pakistan in both directions,

909
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:57,800
triggered by the flight of ten million Bengali refugees from

910
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,960
what was then known as East Pakistan. The Third Indo

911
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:04,320
Pakistani War, which broke out in nineteen seventy one, brought

912
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:09,360
about the creation of the independent Bangladesh. After the Pakistani surrender,

913
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,360
the refugees returned and a smaller those still considerable number

914
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,719
of Pakistanis were driven out of Bangladesh into West Pakistan.

915
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:20,039
The end of the Vietnam War led to the expulsion

916
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:23,199
in two hundred and fifty thousand ethnic Chinese. Ho is

917
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:23,679
that hoa?

918
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: Oh? I think it's oh, yeah, Chinese and they don't

919
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,639
even usually use that usually they call them in real life.

920
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:36,199
But yeah. There are huge numbers of ethnic Chinese in

921
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,440
Southeast Asia, and despite being there for centuries, they are

922
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,360
still distinctively ethnic Chinese, despite the fact that the average

923
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,039
American thinks that all the East Asians look the same.

924
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,519
Speaker 1: The end of the Vietnam War led to the expulsion

925
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:51,960
in two hundred and fifty thousand ethnic Chinese hoa from

926
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:54,320
that country, as well as the migration of the two

927
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,039
million Vietnamese boat people, over half of whom ultimately settled

928
00:55:58,039 --> 00:56:02,400
in the United States. The nineteen eighty Russian invasion of

929
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,679
Afghanistan caused as many as a million Afghanis across the

930
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:10,599
border into Pakistan's northwestern provinces. Despite being settled in refugee

931
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,639
camps there, they eventually came to jeopardize their host control

932
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:17,159
over the region, a problem that may very well present

933
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,480
itself in other parts of the world in the future.

934
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:22,880
Some of the wars that have taken place in Africa

935
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:29,639
since the nineteen seventies, particularly those in the Sudan Eritrea, Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi,

936
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:34,320
the Congo, Liberia, Angola and Mozambique, also led to enforced

937
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,559
migration on a massive scale, and after forty two year hiatus,

938
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,679
ethnic cleansing returned to Europe when, following the death of

939
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,639
longtime dictator Tito Yugoslavia broke up when Bosnia hers and Coovino,

940
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:50,920
whose population is predominantly Muslim, declared independence from Belgrade. The

941
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,559
Serb minority and the province embarked on an all out

942
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:57,039
effort to avoid coming under Muslim rule. Their efforts were

943
00:56:57,039 --> 00:57:01,079
supported by the Serbian government under Slovanan Melosavi, who provided

944
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:06,960
its kinsmen with men, weapons and money. The Bosnian War,

945
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,920
which land lasted from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety five,

946
00:57:10,159 --> 00:57:13,440
witnessed widespread ethnic cleansing. The war was brought to an

947
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:16,320
end by NATO aircraft launching air strikes at the stronger

948
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,519
Serbian forces. It later turned out that there was little

949
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:22,480
difference between the two sides, both of whom committed atrocities,

950
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:27,320
including mass executions. The number of people who displaced who

951
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,039
were displaced by that war has been estimated at two

952
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:32,800
point two million, including two hundred and fifty thousand Serbs

953
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,639
who were driven out of the Krajina Priina.

954
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 2: Thank you just because I watched CNN in the day, That.

955
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,199
Speaker 1: Fact did not prevent the world, with President Clinton at

956
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:48,800
its head, from pointing to the Serbs as the culprits

957
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:53,719
and condemning them by every available means. The current wars

958
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,280
in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and several other countries in Asia

959
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,840
and Africa are also creating large numbers of Migraines. Often

960
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,199
they are prepared to do almost anything to escape the fighting.

961
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,840
Even though life is a refugee is a perilous endeavor.

962
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,639
Women are in particular dangerous. They run the risk of

963
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:13,000
being kidnapped and sold as prostitutes. According to the New

964
00:58:13,079 --> 00:58:15,400
York Times, there are currently sixty million people who have

965
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,280
been forced to leave their homes. That represents just under

966
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,960
one percent of the entire global population. Of the sixty

967
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:26,480
million homeless, one third are refugees who are presently living abroad.

968
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,360
The remaining forty million have been displaced by the civil

969
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,840
war but remain inside their own countries. Since the figures

970
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,599
include millions of children who were born to refugees, even

971
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:39,880
second generation refugees or displaced people after they fled, it

972
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,039
is possible that they are inflated. That is especially true

973
00:58:44,039 --> 00:58:47,360
in the case of the Palestinians, whose number whose number

974
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,920
the Palestinian authority puts at at a literally incredible six million. Yeah,

975
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,199
that number is literally incredible. However, there is every sign

976
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,360
that the number of displaced people is only going to

977
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:03,360
grow and increase the size of the global mass migration

978
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:04,280
in coming years.

979
00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 2: Like I said, there's always a lot of subtext with

980
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:07,480
his writing.

981
00:59:09,519 --> 00:59:12,119
Speaker 1: Same with Lipbakret Litwakret.

982
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, which again both of them are reading people we

983
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:15,280
should read.

984
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,039
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. For example, Israel's war of Independence, which the

985
00:59:20,079 --> 00:59:23,800
Palestinians call the Nakba Catastrophe, actually led to the expulsion

986
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,960
of about six hundred thousand people. The June nineteen sixty

987
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,239
seven war created at most another three hundred thousand refugees. Nevertheless,

988
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,159
the the refugee camps near Jericho have become ghost towns

989
00:59:34,199 --> 00:59:37,280
and have largely remained so to the present day. As

990
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,800
of twenty fifteen, large numbers of Palestinian refugees are scattered

991
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,239
in the Goza strip, the West Bank Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon,

992
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:47,400
while others have joined the ongoing Muslim migration to Europe

993
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:52,199
and the United States because Israel's Arab neighbors find it

994
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,840
useful to have no intention of permitting it to go away.

995
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:58,559
The plight of the displaced Palestinians is both the most

996
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,159
persistent refugee situation as well as the one that has

997
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:07,119
attracted the most sustained international attention. Unfortunately, the future does

998
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:10,039
not bode well, since the possibility that Jordan will eventually

999
01:00:10,119 --> 01:00:15,079
fall to daesh Isis is all too real. Should that

1000
01:00:15,199 --> 01:00:18,039
come to pass, it is not inconceivable that the government

1001
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:21,000
in Jerusalem would deem it necessary for reasons of national

1002
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:24,360
security to drive out the two million Palestinians remaining in

1003
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:28,480
the West Bank as well. Yeah, huh, he is.

1004
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: It was. I guess we're probably near the point where

1005
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,920
we want to take a break. But part of what

1006
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:37,519
you have to understand about voud Kravel is, despite being

1007
01:00:37,639 --> 01:00:43,079
a national security historian who does so much on special operations,

1008
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,960
he is really persona non grata with the Israeli Defense Force.

1009
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,039
So he's known for having a lot of sources who

1010
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:53,920
are again, because everybody serves in the military veterans who

1011
01:00:54,519 --> 01:00:57,320
give him information and leaked documents to him, but the

1012
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,719
formal IDF has repeatedly criticized about all kinds of things,

1013
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,159
to the point that he was not allowed to give

1014
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:07,239
speeches to like IDF officer schools because they were worried

1015
01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:08,519
about him starting fights.

1016
01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:13,559
Speaker 1: That's great, all right, we'll cut it here and pick

1017
01:01:13,639 --> 01:01:15,440
up for part two. I think we can get through

1018
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:16,519
this in two parts, right.

1019
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:19,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me see you just pulling up.

1020
01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:22,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, see how many pages we have left?

1021
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, we only got like five pages left.

1022
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: You want to finish it now?

1023
01:01:28,199 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can do that.

1024
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: Okay, have you got time?

1025
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:32,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? All right.

1026
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: Three Voluntary war related migration. Though the use of force

1027
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,559
is war's outstanding characteristic, not all war related migrations are

1028
01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:45,639
carried out by force. Very often people decide to leave

1029
01:01:45,679 --> 01:01:47,880
a war torn region out of their own free will.

1030
01:01:48,719 --> 01:01:51,199
One reason for doing so, which played an important role

1031
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,159
during the twentieth century, is the desire to avoid conscription.

1032
01:01:55,079 --> 01:01:58,199
In the decades following the development of the French Revolutionary Army,

1033
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:02,519
conscription became common through Europe and was origidly enforced. Many

1034
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:06,159
of those willing to evade forcey evade forced military service

1035
01:02:06,199 --> 01:02:08,920
went to the USA, the British colonies in Latin America.

1036
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,639
Speaker 2: A huge portion of the American excuse me, ethnic German

1037
01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:16,119
migration in North America was from people who wanted to

1038
01:02:16,239 --> 01:02:23,000
avoid conscription. Ironically, a huge amount of the of israelis

1039
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:25,039
because again I tell people, if you ever get a chance,

1040
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:28,519
watch the travel channel, Inevitably you'lls hear about somebody from

1041
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:30,159
Israel who's got to go back to take over a

1042
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:32,519
family business. And the unstated part is this is somebody

1043
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:35,400
who went abroad for school, made sure they were gone

1044
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,320
so long they couldn't get drafted, and now that they're

1045
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,280
old enough and they can't be drafted, they're going home

1046
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,480
because you know there's no risk to them.

1047
01:02:44,119 --> 01:02:47,199
Speaker 1: Today. Eritrea is the country that produces the largest number

1048
01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:50,440
of refugees trying to avoid national service, military or other.

1049
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:55,039
The country is governed by a desk spot named Isaiah's Afwerki.

1050
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,400
Freedom and human rights are unknown. Men and unmarried women

1051
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,400
are conscripted did often for life. This has caused thousands

1052
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,119
of Eritreans, particularly young men, to flee to Ethiopia. From there,

1053
01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:09,079
they usually continue on towards any other country they can enter.

1054
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:10,599
Legally or illegally.

1055
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: Again another part of the Subtexas. He's from a country

1056
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,639
that tries to have universal conscription to include women.

1057
01:03:21,079 --> 01:03:24,119
Speaker 1: War also leads to migration in another way. From the

1058
01:03:24,199 --> 01:03:27,360
earliest days of war, Victoria's soldiers have been besieged by

1059
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,199
the women of the defeated in search of safety, food,

1060
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:36,719
and not least sheer masculine force. Yeah, that's a very

1061
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:39,639
that's him being diplomatic.

1062
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,239
Speaker 2: What a polite way to say that.

1063
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:51,039
Speaker 1: That still remains the case. Armies often prohibit frightenization, as

1064
01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:53,559
the Allied ones did in Germany after World War Two.

1065
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,239
Some states even forbade marriages between their troops and women

1066
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,199
from the occupied population. Usually these efforts are to no avail,

1067
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:06,760
and World War two American soldiers, overpaid, over sex and overhear,

1068
01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:11,079
as their British allies described them, often had the time

1069
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:14,079
of their lives. After the war's end. Most of them

1070
01:04:14,119 --> 01:04:18,840
eventually returned home alone, but an estimated sixty thousand American

1071
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,000
soldiers brought back a signorina or a Freudlein as a

1072
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:24,119
wartime souvenir.

1073
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: Eventually, it got so common for them to seek other

1074
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,880
ways of getting their their girlfriend's home that Eventually, the

1075
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,039
occupation command just abandoned the restrictions and allowed them to marry.

1076
01:04:39,559 --> 01:04:42,519
Speaker 1: But Bubba. The Korean War is known to have produced

1077
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:45,280
an even larger migration, most likely because of the ban

1078
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,840
on marrying Japanese women. Japan served as a principal US

1079
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,840
base during the Korean War was lifted from nineteen forty

1080
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,159
two to nineteen fifty two. The number of Gis who

1081
01:04:55,199 --> 01:04:57,360
married foreign women was around one million.

1082
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: That's also a very polite way of saying that generation

1083
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:02,639
of Japanese men had largely been destroyed.

1084
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: The wars in Southeast Asia from nineteen sixty five to

1085
01:05:07,559 --> 01:05:10,280
nineteen seventy five that involved about two point five million

1086
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:15,360
American troops generated another crop of war brides, But although

1087
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,400
the phenomenon is not entirely unknown, in Afghanistan and Iraq,

1088
01:05:18,679 --> 01:05:21,920
it is much less common. The difference is that Muslims

1089
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,360
are extremely jealous of their women and segregate them as

1090
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,599
much as possible. Hence, the US military, in the hope

1091
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:30,639
of not further inflaming the occupied populations, has done its

1092
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:33,679
best to discourage the troops from fraternizing with the local women.

1093
01:05:35,559 --> 01:05:38,039
Much more important than either of these forms of post

1094
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:40,159
war migration is the kind which is driven by the

1095
01:05:40,239 --> 01:05:43,360
hope of a safer, more orderly, and more prosperous life abroad.

1096
01:05:44,119 --> 01:05:48,119
This describes the majority of modern migrations. Their destinations are

1097
01:05:48,159 --> 01:05:51,039
primarily the rich countries of the West, as well as Australia.

1098
01:05:52,079 --> 01:05:55,159
Migrants with a Christian background are normally absorbed without too

1099
01:05:55,239 --> 01:05:58,440
many problems, especially if they are white, as refugees from

1100
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,960
the former Yugoslavia are. However, the Lebanese Christian diaspora has

1101
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,360
shown that even those from Arab backgrounds can adapt to

1102
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,840
the West. Hindus and Buddhists also tend to do well.

1103
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, just for a completely unofficial point of reference, I

1104
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,440
have never met people were quite as racist as Arab

1105
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:18,760
Christians who moved to the West.

1106
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,519
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know, a couple.

1107
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,119
Speaker 2: Off white nationalism or off supremacy.

1108
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: By contrasts, most Muslim migrants are fanatically opposed to any

1109
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,719
kind of cultural assimilation. Using their mosques as community centers

1110
01:06:38,719 --> 01:06:43,239
and accepting religious imams as imams as their leaders, they

1111
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,719
actively resist any attempt to integrate them. Some even begin

1112
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,039
proselytizing for their way of life, as they have every

1113
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:56,559
right to do in a democratic country. I love that sentence.

1114
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 2: He is is sometimes polite with how he says offensive things,

1115
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,400
but he is blunt.

1116
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: Their objective is to spread their views on what the

1117
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:14,840
late Samuel Huntingson used to call identity. Identity, as Huntington describes,

1118
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,440
it includes the relations between God and man, the individual

1119
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,280
and the group, the citizen and the state, parents and children,

1120
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,880
husband and wife, as well as differing views of the

1121
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,960
relative importance of rights and responsibilities, liberty and authority, equality

1122
01:07:29,159 --> 01:07:29,840
and hierarchy.

1123
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 2: The simple fact that he cites Huntington says a lot

1124
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,639
about his intellectual position.

1125
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,199
Speaker 1: It also includes general relations between sexes, as well as

1126
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:44,880
the rights of homosexuals, as well as many of the

1127
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,840
rights many Westerners hold deer in both their private lives

1128
01:07:48,239 --> 01:07:53,199
and in the socio political arena. As of twenty fifteen,

1129
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,639
Muslims form about eight percent of the population of the

1130
01:07:55,679 --> 01:07:58,840
European Union. I wonder what that is now.

1131
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:04,239
Speaker 2: That is also why the unofficial reason why basically everybody

1132
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:09,119
opposed Turkey's admission into the European Union because Turkey would

1133
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:13,519
immediately become the most populous state in the European Union.

1134
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,279
So it would be a huge shift in balance in

1135
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:22,960
terms of Muslims there. I will say that keep in mind,

1136
01:08:23,239 --> 01:08:26,439
because citizenship laws are so much different in Western Europe,

1137
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,319
that eight percent probably does not reflect huge numbers of

1138
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:33,000
long term migrants, to include people who are you know,

1139
01:08:33,119 --> 01:08:35,920
their third generation in a country who are not citizens

1140
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,119
of their respective countries.

1141
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,359
Speaker 1: In large cities, especially wealthy ones situated on important communication

1142
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,680
lines or featuring seaports, the percentage of Muslims tends to

1143
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,960
be much higher. In some cities, entire neighborhoods have been

1144
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,920
taken over and reshaped in accordance with the migrants' preferences.

1145
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,279
These neighborhoods, such as Tower Hamlets in East London and

1146
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:03,399
the Kurrighaan District in Russels, have assumed a decidedly Mohammedan character,

1147
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:11,000
complete with mosques, veiled women and muse moisens moisens calling

1148
01:09:11,079 --> 01:09:14,800
the faithful to prayer. Most of those neighborhoods are slums

1149
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,920
where the inhabitants tend to be unskilled, under educated, and unemployed.

1150
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,800
Many of their residents cannot even speak the language of

1151
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:25,479
their hosts. Further complicating the situation, the newcomers lose their

1152
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,079
accustomed control over wives and children, who tend to be

1153
01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:33,119
more amenable to integration. This ongoing intra family conflict not

1154
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:38,279
infrequently least to domestic violence. Muslim immigrants often feel underprivileged

1155
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:42,319
and discriminated against, even though they are living off the largesse.

1156
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,079
One might even say the tribute of the people whose

1157
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:47,359
lands they occupy or are occupying.

1158
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 2: I was going to take a moment to point out

1159
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:52,560
that the issue with language, not only do they do

1160
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,520
a poor job of adopting the language of their host country,

1161
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,520
the fact they're cut off from the education system in

1162
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,720
their original country of wars. Large number of their children

1163
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,960
don't grow up speaking you know, proper Arabic or do

1164
01:10:05,159 --> 01:10:07,479
or whatever. So you get a lot of people who

1165
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,199
speak the equivalent of I don't know what's the best

1166
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:14,600
way to say ebonics, except they're not obviously black. They're

1167
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,680
speaking a non language that's of such a poor qualility

1168
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:21,479
that it's like they're not educated in anything.

1169
01:10:23,399 --> 01:10:29,159
Speaker 1: What's interesting here is when he talks about the losing

1170
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:35,239
losing control to becoming a custom and becoming integrated, that's

1171
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:37,800
exactly what happens to the Jews when they were in

1172
01:10:38,039 --> 01:10:42,760
countries that liberalized. They were able to come out from

1173
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,600
under the uh under the power of their rabbis, and

1174
01:10:47,039 --> 01:10:49,720
they basically that they would then petition for their own

1175
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,520
rights to get away from the rabbis.

1176
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as a secular person who's ethnically Jewish, who

1177
01:10:56,399 --> 01:10:58,760
you know, he would probably say that explicitly.

1178
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: But what was this? One? Further complicated the situation. The

1179
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,479
newcomers lose to our custom control over wives and children,

1180
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,279
and it's send to be more amenable to integration. This

1181
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,520
ongoing intra family conflict not in frequently, at least domestic violence.

1182
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,680
Muslim immigrants often feel underprivileged and discriminated against, even though

1183
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,520
they are living off thell or just one might even

1184
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,319
say tribua the Liba. I already read that. Sorry. It

1185
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,600
is true that only a small percentage of the immigrants

1186
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,199
in question turn to violence, let alone politically motivated violence.

1187
01:11:28,399 --> 01:11:30,680
But it is also true that in all the countries

1188
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,159
to which they have immigrated, Muslim immigrants are committing crimes

1189
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:37,119
that a rate that far exceeds the native population. A

1190
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,800
portion of this crime represents a continuation of politics that

1191
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,920
is indistinguishable from terrorism and will inevitably lead to harsh

1192
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,800
countermeasures and eventually reprisals.

1193
01:11:47,199 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 2: Again, migration is war.

1194
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:53,119
Speaker 1: The present situation is more than a little reminiscent of

1195
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:56,520
past migration inspired wars and modes ill for the future.

1196
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,159
It is estimated that as many as five million of

1197
01:11:59,199 --> 01:12:05,560
France's Muslim already live in zone zones urbans, sensibly where

1198
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:09,439
the French police and government have relatively little control, what

1199
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:14,239
we call no go zones. The modern form of economic

1200
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:17,159
migration is not caused by war, but it is threatening

1201
01:12:17,239 --> 01:12:20,840
to turn into a cause of war, and as has

1202
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,680
happened many times before, an informative example of how minority

1203
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,520
majority conflict can lead to violence can be seen in

1204
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,199
the sixteenth century France. For thirty years following John Calvin's

1205
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:34,720
break from the Roman Church in fifteen thirty, Catholics and

1206
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,520
Hugonots looked at each other with increasing mistrust. This mistrust

1207
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,079
occasionally sparks sporadic violence, and over time the violence gradually escalated.

1208
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:47,079
In fifteen sixty two, with the Hugenots outnumbering with the

1209
01:12:47,119 --> 01:12:49,880
Eugonots numbering twelve point five percent of the French population,

1210
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:53,760
full scale war finally broke out. The religious issues were

1211
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:58,279
intertwined with political differences in foreign powers such as England, Spain,

1212
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:03,079
and the England. The Low countries, various German princes and

1213
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,600
even the papacy were drawn into the battle. By the

1214
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,199
time Henry the Fourth was finally able to put an

1215
01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:11,960
end to the Eight Wars of Religion in fifteen ninety

1216
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:16,439
eight by issuing the Edict of Nantis, more Frenchmen had

1217
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,119
been killed than in any other conflict prior to World

1218
01:13:19,159 --> 01:13:26,720
War I, including the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars. Conclusions,

1219
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,199
war is far from the only cause of migration. Other reasons,

1220
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:35,439
primarily economic, have always played an important part in encouraging

1221
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,560
people to leave their native lens, as the examples of

1222
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,640
the Puritans and the Hugonots show. Religious motives can also

1223
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:45,000
be a factor. Yet, even when these other reasons were

1224
01:13:45,039 --> 01:13:48,000
the cause, war and migration have been closely linked in

1225
01:13:48,119 --> 01:13:52,359
various and complex ways. At some times, war and migration

1226
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:55,000
were essentially the same, as in the Great Migration of

1227
01:13:55,039 --> 01:13:59,079
peoples during the first few centuries after Christ, the Arab

1228
01:13:59,159 --> 01:14:02,319
expansion after six thirty two a d. The Maggiar invasion

1229
01:14:02,359 --> 01:14:05,560
of Europe, the Mongol invasions of China, and the movements

1230
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:07,800
of many African tribes from one part of the continent

1231
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,039
to another. At other times, the relationships between the two

1232
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:14,479
phenomena were more complicated, such as ethnic cleansings that rendered

1233
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:19,000
war unnecessary or took place after war's end, massive avoidance

1234
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:22,439
of conscription, or soldiers bringing home concubines and war brides.

1235
01:14:23,239 --> 01:14:27,560
All these various forms have often intermingled, All appear regularly

1236
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,560
in the annals of human history, and all will doubtless

1237
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,560
will doubtless continue to do so in the future. The

1238
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,319
only thing that changes in their relative importance at any

1239
01:14:38,039 --> 01:14:41,079
Their only thing that changes is their relative importance at

1240
01:14:41,119 --> 01:14:44,880
any given point in time. As far as the West

1241
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,680
is concerned, the most significant migration today is the massive

1242
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,960
influx of Muslims. The reason is that, unlike the people

1243
01:14:51,039 --> 01:14:54,279
of the secularized West, Muslims take their religion and the

1244
01:14:54,359 --> 01:14:58,199
way of life it prescribes seriously. As a consequence, they

1245
01:14:58,239 --> 01:15:03,199
are much harder to integrate than they're more malleable immigrants understand.

1246
01:15:03,319 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: This is basically the only reason anybody in the establishment

1247
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,359
in the West is concerned about this issue. It's also

1248
01:15:09,399 --> 01:15:11,920
a large part of why, you know, parts of the

1249
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,840
interior of America, like the South, especially why the establishment

1250
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:19,239
hates us. It is because we're people who still believe

1251
01:15:19,319 --> 01:15:22,079
in religion and still live it as opposed to just

1252
01:15:22,199 --> 01:15:24,520
treating as a window dressing that means nothing.

1253
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 1: For the present. It would be going too far to

1254
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,119
say that the refuge It would be going too far

1255
01:15:32,239 --> 01:15:34,600
to say that the refugees, as well as those who

1256
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,039
are responsible for their plight back in their homelands, are

1257
01:15:37,119 --> 01:15:40,399
actively waging war against the West. They lack the leadership

1258
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,399
and organization required for the effective, large scale violence that

1259
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,600
war entails. However, it must be recognized that more than

1260
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,600
a few in their midst are not averse to using

1261
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,800
violence in order to achieve their aims. They have, after all,

1262
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,399
invaded numerous countries without regard for the will of the

1263
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,479
people of those countries, and their presence is no less

1264
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:02,239
likely to spark resistance then armed invasions of the past.

1265
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:08,119
Since war, as Klaus Wits Klaus klaus Witz teaches, has

1266
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:11,079
a built in tendency to escalate, the resistance can be

1267
01:16:11,159 --> 01:16:15,479
expected to graduate into all out armed conflicts over time,

1268
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:19,720
especially as seems likely if the influx continues and all

1269
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:24,439
the valiant efforts at integration proved feudal From Berlin's Jerusalem,

1270
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:31,479
let those with ears to listen listen and that's it.

1271
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, the.

1272
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: What was I going to say there? The if we

1273
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,840
see this now? Yeah, there there are reports coming out

1274
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:48,960
of Springfield that Haitians are just walking into gun stores

1275
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,960
and they're selling them guns.

1276
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,399
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well again, I mean part of the problem

1277
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,159
is if you were not to sell them, you know,

1278
01:16:57,279 --> 01:16:59,720
one report to the ATF, and you're probably gonna lose

1279
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:03,119
your life because the sin. Yeah.

1280
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:08,039
Speaker 1: Well, I mean FFL officially, anybody who holds an FFL

1281
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,760
is allowed to refuse sale to anyone for any reason. Yeah,

1282
01:17:13,079 --> 01:17:14,800
that is officially officially.

1283
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,560
Speaker 2: But if that reason is racism, you know, suddenly all

1284
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,600
of your justifications go out. That's the magic word that

1285
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,720
ends up their magic word. That is the state of

1286
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:25,720
exception in contemporary society.

1287
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: And also he mentions that they have no leadership to

1288
01:17:31,119 --> 01:17:34,239
expect them to to wage war. They have no leadership

1289
01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:37,479
they have well, I mean it almost seems like they

1290
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,840
do now. I mean, if they're being flown in here, yeah,

1291
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:45,439
and given basically given places to live and given vehicles,

1292
01:17:46,319 --> 01:17:50,880
and they're allowed to buy they one may not say

1293
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:55,079
that some of that power is colluding with them to

1294
01:17:55,199 --> 01:17:58,600
commit violence, but one could say that power is definitely

1295
01:18:00,399 --> 01:18:03,560
creating the opportunity and then looking the other way, and

1296
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,319
not only looking the other way, but would do anything

1297
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,520
to if somebody were to get jammed up by the law,

1298
01:18:10,079 --> 01:18:12,039
to make sure that they walk away.

1299
01:18:12,359 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and leadership doesn't have to always be internal. It

1300
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:19,000
can be external, It can even be hidden. As much

1301
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,520
as I generally think most conspiracy theories are bullshit, that

1302
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:25,159
doesn't mean that people don't conspire and that some of

1303
01:18:25,199 --> 01:18:29,039
these actions don't achieve some level of scale. So Yeah,

1304
01:18:29,079 --> 01:18:32,119
whether or not it's explicit, I think a lot of

1305
01:18:32,199 --> 01:18:35,600
it is in a thousand or probably a billion, you know,

1306
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,880
little nudges along the way to produce a result, which

1307
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:44,960
functionally is the same thing. Again, migration is war, and

1308
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,920
you know, very little in human nature has ever changed

1309
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:52,560
and we continue to be human, which, again I think

1310
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:57,720
progressivism is largely a rejection of the fundamentals of human nature.

1311
01:18:59,239 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I appreciate, uh. I appreciate you bringing this

1312
01:19:04,039 --> 01:19:06,199
one up and bringing it to my attentions so that

1313
01:19:06,279 --> 01:19:08,920
we could get out here and read it, for joining me,

1314
01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:12,840
for commenting on it, and yeah, we'll do this again

1315
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,880
real soon. I appreciate it, and hope you feel better,

1316
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,880
all right, problem take care man. Thank you, thank