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Speaker 4: I The Rush Hour with James Golden, entertaining and informative.
Speaker 5: On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
Speaker 4: Attention, dittoheads, attention bo scouts, the student in most nerdly,
it's time for the soul of excellence.
Speaker 6: He is a radio host here in.
Speaker 4: Your the rush hour is on the air, Rush Rush
Now here's James Golden.
Speaker 7: Dozens of people of East African descent have been charged, convicted,
and sentenced for stealing more than a billion dollars in
taxpayer money from government programs during COVID. As you know, Governor,
that is more than Minnesota spends each year to run
its Department of Corrections. So I want to give you
a chance to respond to this. Do you take respondibility
for failing to stop this fraud in your state?
Speaker 8: Well, certainly I take responsibility for putting people in jail.
Governors don't get to just talk theoretically. We have to
solve problems. And I will note it's not just Somali's.
Minnesota is a generous state. Minnesota is a prosperous days,
a well run state or triple A bond rated. But
that attracts criminals. Those people are going to jail. We're
doing everything we can, but to demonize an entire community
on the actions of a few, it's lazy.
Speaker 1: Welcome my friends to the Monday edition and most certainly's
Rush Hour of the fastest hour in American media. We
could do the entire show on what has been going
on in Minnesota. In fact, we have some other things
for you to listen to concerning the rampant fraud that
has taken place and probably still is taking place in Minnesota.
One is a very very lengthy report on medicaid fraud.
I doubt whether we'll have time to listen to the
whole news report. It was from a local NBC station.
There six over six minutes explaining fraud in Minnesota. Just
with medicare something entirely different. But there are other things happening.
A glimmer of good news, my friends. The Governor of
West Virginia, Patrick Morrissey, is saying that the family of
the twenty four year old US Air Force staff Sergeant
Andrew Wolfe, who was shot in Washington, d C. Part
of the National Guard contingent that took the life of
US Army specialist Sarah Bestrom, who was killed. The family
of Andrew wolf is asking for prayers. He's still fighting
for his life. He needs prayers. But he said that
there were some positive signs the National Guardsman Andrew gave
a thumbs up that he could hear a nurse's question
to him, and he wriggled his toes. So there is
a degree, a glimmer of hope. I've been reading stories
about the economy over this Thanksgiving now into the holiday season,
and they've all been negative, most of the ones that
I've read. So it may come as some surprise to
you if you have seen similar stories that Americans are
spending more on this holiday season despite it, says here
from CBS News, a dour despite the dour economic views,
Americans may not be feeling jolly about their economic prospects,
but that didn't stop shoppings from opening their wallets on
Black Friday, driving spending to new records. How in the
world is that possible with all just the negative stuff,
and also with the protesters out in front of the
Apple store in New York, and you have people that
these and then there was a bunch of protesters that
showed up in an ice garage trying to block it, right,
they arrested some. Now the city council members, some of
these radical city council members are demanding that they be released,
and they're coming up with laws to make it okay
for their New York Socialist protesters to interfere with ICE operations.
Welcome to the Mandami, New York. Also purchases today, getting
back to the economic news on Cyber Monday are expected
to be strong. The software joiant at Delby is forecasting
that fort Shoppers is going to spend fourteen point two
billion dollars online today, which is more than a six
percent increase from this time last year. Democrats going nuts
over Venezuela. I have headlines because we have so many stories.
ABC News Trump Administration Live updates. White House says Admiral
Bradley gave the order on second drug bolt strike. Caroline
Levitt said Admiral Mitch Bradley made the order for the
second strike. Secretary Hegsath facis scrutiny for Bethal boat strikes.
Both Chambers of Congress returned to Washington, DC on Monday
after Thanksgiving recess, working throughout the remainder of the year
on government funding bills. The White House is dodging questions
regarding the survivors killed during the second boat strike. Another headline,
this from also c BS News, Trump says he wouldn't
have wanted a reported second strike on alleged drug boat.
President said Sunday he wouldn't have wanted a reported second strike,
while pledging to look into the matter that has sparked
concern among law makers. The first strike was very lethal.
It was fine, and then there were two people around,
the President told reporters on Air Force One. But Pete
said that didn't happen. I have great confidence in him.
Washington Post reported Friday that Defense wolla, I'm correcting them,
they say Defense Secretary. It's now the Department of Woah. Woah.
Secretary Pete Haig sith gave a verbal order to leave
no survivors. You know what's amazing to me, the Democrats
are doing their utmost as a political party to defend
drug dealers. I mean, you know, it's if let's cut
them just a little bit of slack, little little, not much.
They doubt I suppose the intelligence community that is guiding
the administration and saying these are drug boats. That so
they are skeptical of the intelligence community, and they hate
the Secretary of WOA and the President. So they are
doing their utmost to cast doubt. That is what this
whole said. Dish's sixth movement is about cast doubt over
the fact that these are really drug dealers. Now things
are heating up in Venezuluela. Oh another headline by the
way the Hill dot com. You can also find I
think a story on this in the Daily be Yesterday.
Haig Seth jokes about boat strikes as Congress ramps up scrutiny.
Defense Secretary I have to correct it again. WAWA Secretary
Pete heg Seth on Sunday Evening made light of the
mountain scrutiny he faces over a report that he gave
in order to kill everybody aboard an alleged drug boat
in the Caribbean. In September, a post on the social
platform x the Defense Secretary The WAAH Secretary included a
mock cover of a children's book from the Franklin The
Turtle Book franchise. That edited cover includes a small print
label on the top a classic Franklin story, followed up
by the made up title Franklin Target's Narco Terrorist. The
Illustrates It cover depicts the Franklin character, dressed in military garb,
standing off the side of a helicopter as he holds
what appears to be a rocket launcher aimed at three
boats below, all of which appear to be carrying cargo
representing drugs. One of the boats is mid explosion as
Franklin fires off more AMMO directed below, he sayth tagged
in the photo. Tagged in the photo US Southern Command,
which covers the region for your Christmas wishless, he wrote,
And he's facing allegations of being horribly insensitive for that.
I don't know, he looks very cheerful, like launching that grenade,
rook alun Like maybe he's happy to be taking care
of drug dealers that kill innocent people. Perhaps. I'm sure
the folks at Franklin, I'm sure that's going to be
the next thing we hear about this book. Franchise people
are probably gonna go absolutely bonkers. But okay, lawmakers voice support.
This is from the Associated Press for Congressional Reviews of
Trump's military strikes on boats. Now, you know what, I
actually think this may work out good because if Congress
is demanding to know, number one, what's going on, are
these really drug boats? That can put the matter to rest, Yes,
drug boats? And then the Democrats are going to have
to defend their defense of the drug dealers and the
people that cause American harm. And also we have said
we are at war with them, so our defense is
now going to be anti war in favor of the
narco terrorist. So perhaps this has a silver lining in
all of this. So yeah, Congress, and does Congress have
the right to look at it, Sure they do. I'm
not aferd of the outcome. As I said, Oh, Donald
Trump is going to meet with Rubio Hegseth and others
on top AIDS on the issue of Venezuela. Apparently there
was a call and people are saying that that Trump
told Maduro he'd give them safe passage out. But it
appears that there is perhaps going to be a military
response to what has been taking place in Venezuela over
the years. A lot of mixed feelings about that. I
don't know whether the American people are one hundred or
are one hundred percent not. Democrats never behind anything that
Trump does. But if there is going to be a
military action in Venezuela, I think the President needs to
explain exactly why to the American people and in no
clear terms what the risk is from the continued risk
is from Venezuela, and explain thoroughly. Okay, we're gonna take
a break. When we get back, we'll talk about Minnesota.
We've got a race in Tennessee tomorrow. Is that election
in Tennessee with that woman and acting, And there were
so many other things in the news. James Golden's snowly
fastest hour in American media, do not go away.
Speaker 4: This is the rush Hour with James Golden, The Rush
Hour with James Golden entertaining and informative on the Red
Apple podcast network.
Speaker 9: I just want to be clear. This is the party
that says that, you know, they care so much about
life until life actually shows up at their front door.
And this is also the party that supposedly is about Christianity.
And I just imagine what they would have done to
a little baby Jesus. But that's a whole other issue.
You know. It is really so heartbreaking. We know that
under the prior Trump administration was the children in cages.
So for me, expecting them to do better by children
was not one of the things that was on my
bingo card.
Speaker 1: That is a holiday cheer from Jasmine Crockett, just trying
to inflame with her slander of Republican Christians. Apparently what
would you people have done to little baby Jesus. It
is just beyond the insulting, beyond belief, the seditious six.
One of the ring leaders there, Mark Kelly, was on
PMS whatever they could no. He was on NBC with
Meet the Press, right, And this is.
Speaker 10: You can certainly go to the judge advocate generals, the
lawyers and have a discussion about it. If you don't
have time, you just say simply, I'm not going to
do that.
Speaker 11: That's against the law.
Speaker 7: It puts a lot of burden on the troops to
make a decision in real time.
Speaker 10: But it's a tremendous amount of burden on officers in
the military. But that is their responsibility and they can
figure out. You know, a reasonable person can tell something
that is legal and something that is easy.
Speaker 7: So would you refuse these specific orders to drug votes
if you were still in uniform.
Speaker 10: Well, the difference between the initial strike and what is
being reported, you know as a second strike, and those
things are different. I think this administration has tied themselves
in knots the explanations that we have received on how
how this is all legal. And I was saying weeks ago,
my concern is with the service members that we're going
to put these individuals in a really, really tough decision
in a tough place, and you know, they may find out,
you know, down the road, that they did something that
is illegal. It is not fair to them. That's why
we need presidents and secretary of Defense who understand the constitution,
who understand the rule of law, and have more respect
for the Constitution and the country and service members than.
Speaker 11: The whims of a president.
Speaker 1: The whims of a commander in chief. And he is
encouraging military people to take it upon themselves to question
legal orders. He didn't make a difference, say question if
you it's common sense, you ought to know what's legal
and what's not. No, that's not the way it works.
This is outrageous what democrats are doing here. The seditious
six is outrageous. We still have Minnesota, we still have Tennessee.
We still have a bunch of stories. So whatever you do,
stay here and don't go away.
Speaker 4: The Rush Hour with James Golden entertaining and informative.
Speaker 5: On the Red Apple podcast network.
Speaker 12: James Golden, known popularly as both Nervely.
Speaker 4: This is the Rush Hour with James Golden.
Speaker 13: Rush Or of justice. We're seeing that these criminal legal
aliens are exiting the jails and going back on to
New York or Chicago or these other sanctuary streets to
reperpetuate their crimes. Today in New York City's jails or
seven one hundred and sixty nine criminal illegal aliens, we're
talking about hundreds of murders, hundreds of sexual predators, drug traffickers,
the worst of the worst. Dan Goldman and these other
sanctuary city politicians, they should agree to hand over those individuals,
honor those detainers, and then we won't have to flood
the zone with our ice law enforcement. We won't have
to put those men and women on the ground because
we will get these vicious criminals out of New York
City's jails.
Speaker 1: This holiday season, my friends help the Red Apple Audio
Networks feed those in need. Go dored appleaudionetwork dot com,
slash Turkey, Join Red Apple Audio Networks, AARP, New York City,
the Police Athletic League, g Std'sdagostino's Supermarkets, and nationwide imaging services.
As we deliver holiday meals more than five thousand of
them across New York City. Go to Redappleaudionetwork dot com
slash turkey. That's redappleaudionetwork dot com slash turkey, and I
promise Minnesota, but before we get to Minnesota. And I'm
not putting it off. We got to get to Minnesota.
But I just want to hear you something and it's
unrelated to anything in the news that we've been talking about.
Young women tells this story and it is well the
story is. I just want to be clear that I'm
not laughing at this young woman story and you may
not either. Cut fifteen Carlos. It was so compelling that
I just wanted to share it with you. This young
woman has a story to tell. It's a romance story
sort of.
Speaker 14: I was in college. I dated a very traditional Christian
man who asked me at one point, how do you
feel about after you graduated, we just immediately got married
and you were a stay at home wife and he
didn't have to work. I was honestly offended by that
question because I was so passionate about this thing that
I was getting a degree in that I was just
so eager to enter the workforce and do this thing
that I loved and get money for it. Fast forward
to today, I've graduated, we broke up. I'm now working
in the profession of the thing that I got her
degree in. And I chase her mind.
Speaker 1: Yes, I ch I chase her mind and nerve I
changed my mind. She doesn't like the profession anymore. Story
was insulted, got rid of the boyfriend who wanted her.
I'm not laughing at her. It's just just so sad.
It's sad. Also, by the way, unrelated as well. Let's
get this out of the way very quickly and it
won't take long. Let's see, I'm looking for it. It's
the guy from Seeing and this guy that's on CNN
all the time, this BARACKI sellers cut eleven and I
didn't know this was happening. This is the public service
to those of you in the retail industry who care.
Speaker 11: Latasha Brown, Black voters matter.
Speaker 1: We ain't buying it.
Speaker 11: Are launching a movement this Black Friday and going forward
about stores that are contributing to things like Donald Trump's
inauguration and all of these things which we feel like,
or the library which we feel like, are not necessarily
conducive to the policies that would move people forward. And
so this weekend, black folk are flexing they're buying power
and saying we ain't buying it all right, Scott.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 1: A movement, a boycott movement around the happy holidays for
those of you yes and don't shop, well you don't
want to shop, fine with me? Uh yeah? Illegal. Now
let's talk about before we do. We have a fly
in from Princess Diana. You know what a flying is.
She just profoundly drops profoundities, profundities, words of wisdom, hon
he she just flies it in. Boom. Here's a fly
in from Boom, Princess Diana. Here's the fly in today
from Princess Diana. Since it's amazing, the Democrats are yelling
about illegal orders from the military while they refuse to
even say the word ill legal immigrants. They never ever
distinguished between illegal and legal in any other area of life.
Profound amazing Democrats are screaming and yelling about illegal orders,
illegal orders. These are the people who refuse to even
say the words illegal immigrant. Absolutely Minnesota, let's start CBS
news cut one and this speaks for itself.
Speaker 15: Allegations in a Minnesota voter fraud case that first came
to life this summer, two people pleaded guilty in federal
court to being paid to help register voters. In all,
five hundred to six hundred fraudulent voter registration applications were
submitted to election officials and offices in thirteen Minnesota counties.
ASMAI Murphy has been following this case since she joins
US now Hi.
Speaker 16: There Frank, it was some sharp election workers in Carver
County who realized the names and addresses on the voter
registration forms did not match with any county residents.
Speaker 6: Prosecutors charged two people with one count each of voter
registration fraud. According to the charging documents, the two were
paid by an unnamed foundation to help register voters. The
two defendants plug guilty this summer and have since moved
out of state. The scope of the two year FBI
and state investigation was not previously known.
Speaker 17: And it's very significant that they said today it was
thirteen counties between five and six hundred fake voter registrations,
and that's just from two of the independent contractors that
worked with this group.
Speaker 6: The investigation involved scouring hundreds of records.
Speaker 18: On guidance from the FBI.
Speaker 10: The voter registration applications were mailed directly to the election
lead and instructions were shared to use gloves when handling
the forms.
Speaker 6: In testimony before the committee, Minnesota Secretary of State Steve
Simon says the system designed to catch voter fraud worked.
Speaker 18: This is a case about individuals who conspired to submit
false voter registration applications. This is not a case about
fraudulent votes, and this is ultimately a case of the
system working.
Speaker 17: How many were in the system is challenged.
Speaker 6: Republican Committee chair Christen Robbins, who is running for governor,
says she has additional concerns that the unnamed foundation that
paid the two workers is funded by state taxpayer dollars.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's enough. That's enough. We have a state funded foundation,
nobody knows the name of it. Still, that's out funding
people engaged in what trying to trying to gin up
fake voter registrations in Minnesota. The state pays the foundation.
The foundation then high and this is just two of them.
No reports yet on how widespread this really was. While
they're all claiming victory. Okay, let's go to cut two.
Fox News report again.
Speaker 19: Min Minnesota link terror group linked to al Qaeda.
Speaker 20: Justice Department says it will take a look national correspondent
Jeff Paul has details.
Speaker 21: They're calling for an investigation for Minnesota congress members addressing
the state's US attorney demanding answers after report claimed taxpayer
dollars were ending up in the hands of Samali terror
group Al Shabab.
Speaker 20: If you're paying taxes for services you expect and things
you expect your state government to provide, those taxes should
not be going to a terrorist group in a foreign country.
Speaker 21: House Majority web Tom Emmer is referencing this article written
by urban policy magazine City Journal, which is published by
a conservative think tank, the Manhattan Institute. Citing unnamed sources,
the report alleges funding that was supposed to go to
state programs to help with housing and feeding people was
being stolen, without specifying an amount.
Speaker 1: Got the article clean, I will stop it right there.
So we got that. Now we already had the voter
fraud paid by the state, some foundation state gives money
to out trying to commit voter fraud. Now we have
this other big one. We know about this. We had
Tim Walts at the beginning of the show, over a
billion dollars to East African that's the nice way of
saying Somali mostly but East African players in a massive
fraud of COVID era fraud that just went right through
their fingers. And now you have this one money from
the billion dollars ending up in the hands of terrorists.
Now cut nine NBC, a local NBC station in Minnesota.
Speaker 22: Web investigates exposed as yet another state program designed to
help people in need being ransacked by alleged fraud. Aj
Lego continues to follow where your tax dollars are going
in his multi year investigation Recovery Ink.
Speaker 18: So this is this company that built under my assurance
named Action Therapy LLC.
Speaker 23: They're based in Minnesota.
Speaker 19: A Minnesota man takes to TikTok in a series of videos,
y'all just look at the numbers, and he emails caroleven
Investigates alleging Medicaid fraud.
Speaker 1: They're billing.
Speaker 18: Never been there before, never even heard of it until recently.
Speaker 19: Mohammad Ali said he'd never heard of Action Therapy until
he requested his insurance billing records. His Medicaid coverage is
through taxpayer funded Hannepen Health. When he got his records,
he discovered in just nine months between August of twenty
twenty four and May twenty twenty five, Action Therapy built
two hundred and eleven thousand dollars. It was not all approved,
but the record show they were paid nearly eighty five thousand.
He says for doing nothing.
Speaker 14: I know them.
Speaker 19: Mohammad currently lives in Kenya, but still questioned the charges
in his name. A boss Varra with Action Therapy emailed him,
blaming the billing on a clerical mix up and promised
a full internal review.
Speaker 23: Back to back days.
Speaker 19: So who is Action Therapy? When Carol Levin first started
investigating back in June, this was their website. It claimed
they are psychotherapists. Right away we found red flags Action
Therapy's website list of their non working phone number as
zero one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine.
Then their website went dark. In July a new company
website launched. This time it claims they provide adult rehabilitative
mental health services, known by the acronym ARMS, which focuses
on real life skills like budgeting, cooking, personal hygiene, medication management,
transportation use, and healthy community vation. ARMS is a medicaid
program overseen by the Minnesota Department of Human Services.
Speaker 11: The ARMS are the adult Rehabilitation Rehabilitative Mental health Services program.
Speaker 19: Just last week, Acting US Attorney Joseph Thompson flagged ARMS
as yet another program the FEDS are investigating for rampant fraud,
as he announced federal wire fraud charges in the wake
of Carol Levin's investigation into the Housing Stabilization program. The
level of fraud in these programs is staggering. We wanted
to hear Action Therapy side of their client's allegations of fraud,
so we emailed asking for an interview, and also tried
calling Action Therapies listed number on their new website.
Speaker 5: Sorry, that mailbox is in Ballance.
Speaker 19: Well that got us nowhere. Secretary of State Filings confirmed
a business products.
Speaker 1: The fraud is so widespread you can't keep up with it.
They have another program set up where they're robbing the homeless. Basically,
they've build a state millions of dollars. This thing goes
on for more minutes, more minutes, more minutes. It gets
into housing fraud. Fraudulent housing that you the taxpayers pay
for for homeless people who never get the housing. Medicaid
for Minnesota is a one hundred percent total fraud mess.
Every direction you can think of. It is just astounding.
So that's our little Minnesota report for today. Wish we
could play the whole thing. It is unbelievable the level
of fraud that is happening in that state under Governor
Tim Walls. But time is fleeting tomorrow, yes, do we
have a We'll break right now. If we have time.
We will have time for aften before we go. James
Golden will be back. Don't go away.
Speaker 4: This is the Rush Hour with James Golden. The Rush
Hour with James Golden, entertaining and informative.
Speaker 5: On the Red Apple podcast network. It's the Rush Hour
with James Golden.
Speaker 4: The pseudonyms now here's James Golden.
Speaker 1: One of the anthems for adultery. I mean, there's the
Whitney Houston song of course, saving all My Love for You,
But this was one of the early anthems for adultery.
Me and Missus Jones Billy Paul singing it here, his
big hit from seventy two, was born on this day
in nineteen thirty four, one of the many artists of
the Great Sound of Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Sound. He passed
away in twenty sixteen. He was eighty one. This one
was so huge. Me and missus Jones. We got a
thing going on. Okay, the Tennessee election tomorrow. We don't
have time for all of it. This is the candidate,
the Democrat candidate, aft in bangs.
Speaker 3: This is great.
Speaker 24: We've got our girls squad and we're bullying the ice.
Speaker 19: Vehicles and state troopers.
Speaker 3: So this is like, this is a win.
Speaker 1: This is her screaming as she's being dragged out of
a capital protest.
Speaker 24: Well, I'm currently involved in a transfer transformative justice seminar.
So it's how to imagine a world without police and
what that looks like and what community mechanisms look like,
especially for those of us you know that are young,
like you know, talking to our parents about what police
abolition looks like.
Speaker 25: That you know we can do it and there is
a world.
Speaker 23: You said in those sense deleted tweets that the Metropolitan
Nashville Police Department should be dissolved. Another sheered on a
teachers union, saying that defund the police should be a
requirement for schools reopening, and another saying good morning, especially
to the fifty four percent of Americans that believe burning
down a police station is justified, do you still stand
by those comments and if not, is there anything you
want to clarify.
Speaker 12: I'm not going to engauge in kible news talking points,
but what I will say is that you know, our
communities need solutions. We need local people deciding solving local
problems with local solutions.
Speaker 23: So you don't want to clarify whether you still believed
that the police should be defunded.
Speaker 12: Once again, I remember these tweets, but I'm what I'm
saying is is.
Speaker 23: That I'm not asking you if you remember what is
your position today? How's that on this issue?
Speaker 26: I mean, once again, I'm here to talk about my
raised My therapist always asks me to transcribe my dreams
when they happen, and the recurring dream I've had is
standing up in a cafeteria.
Speaker 25: Full of women I don't know why I was there
or whatever, and.
Speaker 24: Saying I don't want children, I want power, and just
screaming it at the top of my lungs.
Speaker 25: The deeply patriarchal structures that these women are are involved
with because they've chosen marriage and they've chosen.
Speaker 24: To raise children, and I think in the South it's
it's incredibly difficult to shake.
Speaker 25: Those Some committees open up with prayer. We also stand
for the pledge, and there are also prayer groups in
the legislature that meet routinely. There are Christian pastors that
have a lot of say and proximity to power in
the legislature and dictate a lot of what the power
players do, and it is uncomfortable.
Speaker 13: Every legislative session, I promise to carry a trans Bill
of rights so that we could push back against the
far right narrative that is being emanated by Matt wallsh
with the Daily Wire who.
Speaker 1: Have set up their home Yeah list and gentlemen, it
goes on and on. You've heard her statements about how
she hates Nashville even though she wants to represent it.
She hates country music, she hates the bachelourette. That's the
woman that's running tomorrow. We gotta leave. We celebrate on
the way out. Jacko Pistorius, one of the greatest bass
players of all time, worked with so many great artists
Joni Mitchell, Herbie Hancock, Pat Matheney, but had his own solo. Courageous, brilliant,
one of the most brilliant musicians ever. The great Jocko
Pistoria is born on this day in nineteen fifty one
James Golin Snurly. May God bless protect. This is of
course from Weather Report Birdland. May God bless each and
every single one of you protect you and your families,
you loved ones, loving gratitude for you of being here
with me, allowing me to be with you, God willing.
We are back tomorrow for the Tuesday edition of Bo
Snurdley's rush Hour fastest hour in American media. Until then,
I bid you, I do bye.
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to Bo Stirdley's Rush Hour. You can
hear Bo Snurdley's Rush Hour weekdays at four on seventy
seven WABC.
Speaker 19: If you like the podcast, share it with your.
Speaker 5: Friends and listen anytime at WABC radio dot com and
download the WABC Radio app. Hit that subscribe button on
all major podcast platforms. Plus, follow WABC on social on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
and see you next time for a new episode.
Speaker 2: So you never have to wonder what the heck is
going on here