Speaker 1: Religions usually claim to be the source for all that
Speaker 1: is good, the moral code by which people should abide. However,
Speaker 1: their associated texts, and to a greater extent, their actions,
Speaker 1: demonstrate quite the opposite. The God of the Bible necessitates war,
Speaker 1: going so far as to command Moses and his army
Speaker 1: to enslave virgin girls while slaughtering everybody else. This God
Speaker 1: incites slaughter and genocide, knowing full well the repercussions and
Speaker 1: how people will be impacted. In fact, it was this
Speaker 1: God who wiped out humanity with a natural disaster, killing millions.
Speaker 1: He brought plagues and encouraged slavery, and did nothing to
Speaker 1: solve these problems. But this is not unique to just
Speaker 1: Judaism or Christianity. In the seventh century, Muslim armies swept
Speaker 1: across North Africa and through the Middle East and beat
Speaker 1: those civilizations into the submission of Islam. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, I stood on my rooftop and watched the
Speaker 1: smoldering aftermath of the Twin Towers c lapse when Islamic
Speaker 1: fundamentalists flew planes into them. Twenty years of war ensued,
Speaker 1: and this region is still wrought with religious divisions and
Speaker 1: unnecessary human suffering. Today, the Hindu populations of Asia are
Speaker 1: particularly harsh toward Islamic minorities, as are the Buddhists of Myanmar,
Speaker 1: who are actively committing genocide against them. We have no
Speaker 1: evidence that there are any gods or religions doing anything
Speaker 1: to quell human suffering. We do know, however, that there
Speaker 1: are people looking to counteract the impacts of war on humanity,
Speaker 1: as well as health epidemics, natural disasters, and general human displacement. Today,
Speaker 1: we at Talk Heathen and the atheist community of Austin
Speaker 1: are highlighting the good work by Doctors Without Borders, an
Speaker 1: organization that aims to deliver medical aid to people around
Speaker 1: the world who are suffering because of the calamities I've
Speaker 1: just mentioned, despite rel religious affiliations and insolidarity with humanist efforts.
Speaker 1: While our thoughts and opinions do not reflect those of
Speaker 1: Doctors Without Borders, we do support their efforts and invite
Speaker 1: you to help ease the suffering of so many around
Speaker 1: the world who need additional support. Please donate to Doctors
Speaker 1: Without Borders by accessing the donate button below the chat
Speaker 1: or accessing the link in this episode's description, and please
Speaker 1: call us live right now to talk about what you
Speaker 1: believe and why at five one two nine two or
Speaker 1: from your computer at tiny dot CC forward slash call THH.
Speaker 1: Get your calls going right now because the show is
Speaker 1: about to start. Hello. Hello, I have pumped. I am
Speaker 1: pumped whenever I hear that INTL thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: But I was talking more about the theme music. It
Speaker 1: gets me going. But anyway, I loved it. Hello everybody.
Speaker 1: Today is October sixth, twenty twenty four. I am your host,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Junior today joining the two beautiful, wonderful hosts Forrest
Speaker 1: VALKEI objectively Dan, gentlemen, how are you this fine Sunday?
Speaker 2: Dude? I'm freaking awesome. I'm so excited to be raising
Speaker 2: money for this. While we were doing that intro, we
Speaker 2: got more donations in already we got's see here, an
Speaker 2: anonymous donor donated five bucks. Miranda Renzberger donated twenty bucks.
Speaker 2: That brings the grand total for this entire fundraiser to
Speaker 2: twenty nine thousand, nine hundred and fifty eight dollars raise
Speaker 2: for doctors of that border so far. So we are
Speaker 2: about forty two bucks away from crossing thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: raise for this amazing organization. So if you watching out there,
Speaker 2: have forty two bucks in your pocket right now, if
Speaker 2: you want to skip lunch for a day, or if
Speaker 2: you want to just pay a couple. Most of the donations,
Speaker 2: the vast majority donations, have been five to ten dollars.
Speaker 2: So if you want to skip a coffee for a
Speaker 2: day and save someone's life on the other side of
Speaker 2: the world, this is the time to do it. Just
Speaker 2: hit that donate button. Blow of this video. You're gonna
Speaker 2: make somebody's life better and possibly longer, but you might
Speaker 2: keep them alive in the first place.
Speaker 1: Heck yeah, heck yeah, go ahead, man.
Speaker 3: Forty two is a good number. You know, Hitchhiker's got
Speaker 3: to the galaxy and all that. So yeah, you know
Speaker 3: that's good. Luck will be given to you. I'm pretty
Speaker 3: sure if Douglas Adams donation exactly the Douglas Adams donation.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's as it is, beautiful by no one,
Speaker 3: beautiful Sunday here in Austin, Texas. Happy to be here
Speaker 3: with you. Jimothy, Jimothy Jr. You know really good. I
Speaker 3: love when you give.
Speaker 1: Me pet names. You know, it's great. I feel special,
Speaker 1: but I'm happy to be here with you as well. Today.
Speaker 1: It's not a normal Sunday, all right. It's maybe kind
Speaker 1: of like every other Sunday in a way around the
Speaker 1: beautiful fall time where we can drink our pumpkins spice
Speaker 1: and appreciate the leaves on the ground. But you know, today,
Speaker 1: particularly for the ACA, is unique. So I want to
Speaker 1: thank everybody who has supported talking than the ACA as
Speaker 1: a whole for all these years. Today, however, we are
Speaker 1: supporting Doctors Without Borders or Medicine son Frontiers, which is
Speaker 1: I think not a bad first hack at that pronunciation.
Speaker 1: I do speak a little good no friend, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Is known as Doctors Without Borders.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's a global humanitarian organization delivers emergency medical care to
Speaker 1: people affected by conflict, epidemics, disasters, and those who lack
Speaker 1: essential health care. So this organization was founded in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy one. Their teams work in over seventy countries I
Speaker 1: was reading today. They have sixty nine thousand members, volunteers
Speaker 1: and other people who help keep the organization going. Only
Speaker 1: one percent goes to their overhead. Everything else goes toward
Speaker 1: helping other people everywhere. And I just think that's a
Speaker 1: beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: So they're driven by Yeah, go ahead, No, I was
Speaker 2: just going to be a bill of say that they
Speaker 2: are so freaking cool. They're just an amazing organization. I
Speaker 2: wish I could be as cool as them someday. And
Speaker 2: I'm currently tallying up the final numbers here because while
Speaker 2: it was just right, immediately as we got started here,
Speaker 2: we got ten more dollars donations, five from somebody named Nero,
Speaker 2: five from Chase Avior, and then the forty two dollars
Speaker 2: came in from X million, and I'm guessing the first
Speaker 2: name is Puck here donated one hundred and sixty kroner.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the change rate is. That's why
Speaker 2: I'm retallying everything. That brings us up to thirty thousand
Speaker 2: and twenty six dollars that we raised for doctors about borders.
Speaker 2: We've bout thirty thousands protation gentlemen before the show even
Speaker 2: really got started. Amazing, amazing today in the world.
Speaker 1: It would have been a good time for like a
Speaker 1: soundboard where I could hit that.
Speaker 3: You know, I wish I had absolutely I maybe I
Speaker 3: can tell you what if you want you just say
Speaker 3: tell me to do it, and I'll make it with
Speaker 3: my noise and I can do your human soundboard.
Speaker 2: You know, somebody, somebody's taking something off. We're going to
Speaker 2: accelerate somehow. An anonymous donor just donated another twenty bucks.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, excellent, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: making the world a slightly less shitty place.
Speaker 4: Dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: At Doctors Without Borders, driven by principles of independence, neutrality,
Speaker 1: and impartiality, it operates on the front lines, offering aid
Speaker 1: solely based on need, regardless of race, religion, or political affiliation,
Speaker 1: saving live lives where it's needed most. So consider making
Speaker 1: good donation again on Google YouTube, ACA, we will not
Speaker 1: take a cut. Excuse me, I should rephrase that neither
Speaker 1: Google YouTube nor ACA will take a cut. But like
Speaker 1: we already mentioned, check the donate button below the chat
Speaker 1: or go into this episode's description you can access the
Speaker 1: donate link. So without further ado, I want to just
Speaker 1: say what I have to say, but what I get
Speaker 1: to say as well. Talkhavan is a product of the
Speaker 1: Atheist Community of Austin. We are a five oh one
Speaker 1: c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism,
Speaker 1: critical thinking, secular humanism and the separation of religion and government.
Speaker 1: That's our mission. Talk Keithen is a live call in show,
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Speaker 1: five point two nine two or from your computer at
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Speaker 2: We got you Herbie Shine for fifty pounds.
Speaker 1: Nice. We getting pounds, We're getting dollars, We're getting it
Speaker 1: all right. So we're going to talk to Chloe in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: who is a theist. Goes by she her Chloe wants
Speaker 1: the host take on elevator Gate. Rebecca Watson had experience
Speaker 1: in elevator Oh that's that was in parentheses. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I should have read that, but in any case,
Speaker 1: you know what, Let's just move on and pretend that
Speaker 1: whole thing didn't happen, and let's talk to Chloe. Chloe,
Speaker 1: you are on with Jimmy, but more importantly Dan and Forrest. Chloe.
Speaker 1: I am sorry, right, Chloe, are you in this or not.
Speaker 5: I'm here, I should be.
Speaker 1: Yes, there we go, So go ahead, expand what do
Speaker 1: you want to know about elevator Gate?
Speaker 5: No, no, no, So I was there and I was
Speaker 5: there and witness it. For me, it was a moment
Speaker 5: of massive disillusion with the atheist community, and I was
Speaker 5: wondering if there were you know, now that we're about
Speaker 5: fifteen years away from it, if there's any sort of
Speaker 5: reflection or any sort of any sort of kke to
Speaker 5: be remembered from it. For me, it was just like
Speaker 5: that first moment I realized maybe the atheist community wasn't
Speaker 5: for me.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, well so for those who want to wear
Speaker 3: Elevator Gate is a thing that happened with a content creator,
Speaker 3: I Boo Skeptchic was her name, And this was a
Speaker 3: conference that happened in twenty eleven where I think I
Speaker 3: don't remember the details exactly, but basically there was a
Speaker 3: a I think, accusations of being harassed on an elevator
Speaker 3: at this conference. And this is at the time where
Speaker 3: an atheist community is like debating whether like we should
Speaker 3: be calling ourselves feminists and stuff. Right, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of this kind of discourse about like treating women in
Speaker 3: the space and stuff, and there's a lot of pushback
Speaker 3: as to whether or not, you know, how legitimate these
Speaker 3: kinds of terms are and stuff. Obviously, there was just
Speaker 3: a bullshit time in the atheist world that was before
Speaker 3: any three of us or even content creators in the space. Right.
Speaker 3: I was in high school when this happens, So yeah,
Speaker 3: I was a in high school. So it's like, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 3: that's a shitty time. It's a shitty time to be
Speaker 3: a woman. It's a shitty time to be a woman
Speaker 3: in any time, but especially in the atheist space online.
Speaker 3: So yeah, fuck people that didn't believe women, and fuck
Speaker 3: people that you know aren't okay with talking about the
Speaker 3: stuff that we do today, which I think the space
Speaker 3: is much more progressive in that respect. There's a lot
Speaker 3: more I would say, you know, women content creators that
Speaker 3: are making stuff in the space, and I think are
Speaker 3: treated better. But I say that at the same time,
Speaker 3: I'm friends with many of them, and I see their
Speaker 3: common sections compared to mine and Forrests and Jimmy, and
Speaker 3: it's like it's still not the same. So yeah, there's
Speaker 3: still a lot of work to be done, but it
Speaker 3: is better. And I think it's something that's still worth addressing.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, that's my take. Yeah, I would not.
Speaker 2: I have not to my knowledge, nor would I ever
Speaker 2: participate with any atheist show or network or community that
Speaker 2: is not fundamentally feminist in its values, that does not
Speaker 2: support LGBTQUI A plus people, that it does not support
Speaker 2: BIPOC people, that does not stand up for people of color,
Speaker 2: that does not advocate for social progress, that is not,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to build a better future for the world.
Speaker 2: If it's just content creators that are out there just
Speaker 2: to argue and get clicks, I don't usually interact with
Speaker 2: them or work with them. And certainly if somebody's going
Speaker 2: to be regressive, or if somebody isn't going to believe
Speaker 2: women when they come out and say that something happened
Speaker 2: to them, or if someone's going to argue about whether
Speaker 2: or not they should be considered feminists, I'm certainly I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have anything to do with them. But I again,
Speaker 2: as Dan pointed out, I wasn't around at that time either.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, as far as the idea of whether or
Speaker 2: not the atheist community is as a whole is a
Speaker 2: safe place, the atheist community is united only by the
Speaker 2: fact that we don't believe in God. There are good atheist,
Speaker 2: bad atheist, cool atheist, shitty atheist, republican atheist, democrat atheists.
Speaker 2: There's atheists of all colors and stripes and classes and
Speaker 2: creeds and blah blah blah. But I think the community
Speaker 2: that we as content creators build and facilitate is what's
Speaker 2: most important. And that's why there are plenty of atheist
Speaker 2: creators out there that I will not work with. And
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say your name names, but I
Speaker 2: have specifically requested people that I know that know those
Speaker 2: people as well. Don't don't bring these people around me.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not uninterested, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, Chloe, how do you how do you feel
Speaker 1: about those responses reflections from you?
Speaker 5: Oh? Perfect? I think that means that the work has
Speaker 5: been done, that that that the old ideas like because
Speaker 5: for me, and I just want to give you a
Speaker 5: quick background. For me, what was disillusioning to me was
Speaker 5: that I had seen that conversation happen, in more or
Speaker 5: less better terms, happen among fans and SANDOM communities. Sure,
Speaker 5: so when I saw it happen, and the way that
Speaker 5: it did for the atheist community, it kind of hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, Right, there's there was a It sounds
Speaker 2: like this was at a time when the like the
Speaker 2: cringey edge lords of the Internet were still kind of
Speaker 2: the rulers of YouTube, where it's like, if you throw
Speaker 2: it an extra slur in your video just to get
Speaker 2: some extra rage comments, that was the thing to do,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is even before YouTube atheists. This is
Speaker 3: like blogging atheists spears, right, this is like at that time,
Speaker 3: like like this is when the term atheist plus was
Speaker 3: being thrown around because at the time atheists commentators were
Speaker 3: talking more about social justice issues and that was kind
Speaker 3: of new, and peop were like, hey, should we actually
Speaker 3: do that? Like I thought we should just be talking
Speaker 3: about like the God thing when like here we are
Speaker 3: we talk about that ship every week, right, like we're
Speaker 3: we're that's become so much more normalized now by the time,
Speaker 3: it was like it was part of this bigger conversation
Speaker 3: and why that was like such a big deal. But yeah, Chloe,
Speaker 3: I want to keep letting letting you speak to that
Speaker 3: because you know, we definitely want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, definitely, Because for me, as someone who is
Speaker 5: who left the atheist community and was queer and is
Speaker 5: all these other things and coming back into the space,
Speaker 5: I just wasn't sure has that work truly been done?
Speaker 5: And I do think that not only has the work
Speaker 5: been done, it was done well, it was done thoughtfully,
Speaker 5: those who stayed behind, those who fought it out, those
Speaker 5: like Matt Dillon hunting, which you know, got to give
Speaker 5: him credit, you know, got to give credit to the
Speaker 5: long time old heads who you know, who who stuck
Speaker 5: it out and who have the scars to prove it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I might have been misunderestimating on my part.
Speaker 5: So that's just where I'm going to go.
Speaker 1: Blowie, did I did I read correctly that you are
Speaker 1: a theist and that you left when you say you
Speaker 1: left the atheist community? So what was that trip like?
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to digress, but I just want
Speaker 1: to kind of get your your I guess perspective or
Speaker 1: your experience. You were an atheist and then you left
Speaker 1: the atheist community and now you're a theist and how
Speaker 1: did that happen?
Speaker 5: So it happened because I lived my life, because I had.
Speaker 5: What happened was was that when I left atheism, right
Speaker 5: when Elevator Gate happened, and then I realized all this
Speaker 5: was going on, and then I realized, like being in
Speaker 5: the atheist community just wasn't for me. I wasn't tethered
Speaker 5: and married to the arguments for or against God, for
Speaker 5: or against the supernatural. I wasn't marinating in it. So
Speaker 5: when my friends would have experiences, my friends would talk
Speaker 5: about it. When I was introduced to it through social means,
Speaker 5: I wasn't really thinking like in those terms anymore, and
Speaker 5: I was more open to those ideas. And then once
Speaker 5: I opened up and realized there's a lot of gender
Speaker 5: feelings in this, yeah, that's when I left. That's when
Speaker 5: I was fully gone.
Speaker 1: So first, so have you adopted a religion?
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm North Pagan.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, yeah, And I'm trying to understand was
Speaker 2: being disillusioned with the behavior of a of prominent atheist figures.
Speaker 2: Is that a causal event to you then picking up
Speaker 2: like supernatural beliefs or those different things, because it sounds
Speaker 2: like what you're saying is that like there was this
Speaker 2: a bunch of atheists were behaving Shittaly and so I
Speaker 2: became a theist and like that that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to build upon that because and I don't
Speaker 1: want to question your integrity or anything like that, Chloe,
Speaker 1: but I ask you, do you actually believe or are
Speaker 1: you just practicing it? And I think that is you know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of piggybacking on Forrest there, but yeah, did
Speaker 1: you leave? Did you leave and seek comfort somewhere else
Speaker 1: because you weren't happy with the atheists?
Speaker 4: I didn't seek comfort.
Speaker 5: It comfort found me.
Speaker 2: It's one of those what does that mean?
Speaker 5: Like I what that means was that as I explored
Speaker 5: in my life, as I talked to other people, as
Speaker 5: as I got involved with people who were theists, I
Speaker 5: did not have any intention of going theists. I had
Speaker 5: no intention of whatever. It's just that when I was
Speaker 5: exposed to it, I found comfort. I didn't seeking it.
Speaker 5: I was fine without that comfort, but after I found it,
Speaker 5: I realized I wanted it. It's like I, you know,
Speaker 5: stumble upon a restaurant in the middle of nowhere and
Speaker 5: it's like a nice hole in the wall and then
Speaker 5: that's an amazing enchilada. You didn't know what was there
Speaker 5: you just wented in Enchilada, now you seek it out.
Speaker 1: I just I'm curious, though, are you getting something from
Speaker 1: this newfound affiliation other than social acceptance or because when
Speaker 1: you say I was thinking about going theist, I mean
Speaker 1: that's a little bit different. Going theist. I think would
Speaker 1: really happen if a belief fell upon you, right like
Speaker 1: I went atheist, but not because I wanted to be
Speaker 1: an atheist. I ended up going atheist because I could
Speaker 1: no longer believe. And so I would ask you did
Speaker 1: that happen in reverse? Were you an atheist and then
Speaker 1: this North Pagan religion was introduced to you and you
Speaker 1: found no other way to live your life than through
Speaker 1: the North Pagan or in accordance with North Paganism because
Speaker 1: you actually believed it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I actually.
Speaker 5: Believed it because I had experiences with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what's your evidence for Zeus and Thorp?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I don't know if that's what Chloe.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I Chloe is interested in actually talking about that part
Speaker 3: of it. I think you know, Chloe came in with
Speaker 3: a specific topic to talk about, and I just want
Speaker 3: to make sure, Chloe, do you are you okay with us?
Speaker 3: Taking this conversation about your beliefs or were you happy
Speaker 3: with you know, talking about the topic that we talked about.
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm I'm happy with with with with with either.
Speaker 3: But okay, okay, I just want to make sure that
Speaker 3: we're not like blindsiding you because you came in with
Speaker 3: a very specific query, and I want to make sure
Speaker 3: that we are answering that.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, that's a very no, that's a very fair
Speaker 2: and and generous thing to do. I appreciate that, Dan,
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, because I then I would just launch
Speaker 2: into the same same questions I would have for anybody
Speaker 2: if if if somebody calls in about God, or if
Speaker 2: somebody calls in about Odin, I have the exact same questions, which,
Speaker 2: you know, why do you believe this thing? What is
Speaker 2: some evidence that we have for this thing? Is there
Speaker 2: you know, objective justification for this thing? Yeah, but no,
Speaker 2: I appreciate you interjecting, Dan, thank you very much, because
Speaker 2: I will get run off in a tangent buy in cool.
Speaker 3: I just want to make sure because look, Chloe, Chloe's
Speaker 3: whole thing right when they first called in, they look,
Speaker 3: I part of the reason why I left this space
Speaker 3: is because I didn't feel accepted in this space, right, Like,
Speaker 3: I'm a queer person and I don't think we're being
Speaker 3: very commodating, and I want to make sure we're fucking accommodating, right,
Speaker 3: because it's like, hey, listen, like I get it, there's
Speaker 3: a bunch of shitty people online, and it was a
Speaker 3: shitty space back then. I look back at that. I
Speaker 3: wasn't a part of it at the time, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I look at some of the things that are out
Speaker 3: there and it's like, yeah, I don't know if I
Speaker 3: want to hang out with these guys either, right, And
Speaker 3: so like if the difference between you know, you being
Speaker 3: interested in a community like ours versus is am I
Speaker 3: going to be accepted here? I want to make sure
Speaker 3: you're fucking accepted, right. I want to make sure, Hey,
Speaker 3: I fight for your rights. I fight for queer people,
Speaker 3: women's rights and minority rights whatever, because yeah, that was
Speaker 3: not a point of emphasis, you know, a decade ago,
Speaker 3: but it is now and I want to make sure
Speaker 3: it continues to be right. So anyway, that's my spield there, Chloe, No,
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, Chloe respond, Oh.
Speaker 5: Oh, it's just an outpouring of love, and how do
Speaker 5: you respond to that other than thank you?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and I think let's circle it back right.
Speaker 1: So before Dan, So before Dan brought us back on track,
Speaker 1: which I greatly appreciate, you had said though it looks
Speaker 1: like the work has been done, and so I was
Speaker 1: kind of hoping that you might even consider, Hey, maybe
Speaker 1: the atheist community actually is for me, and it is.
Speaker 1: So I want you to know that there is room.
Speaker 1: Human rights are important to us. I think that we
Speaker 1: come we come to that conclusion just based on our skepticism,
Speaker 1: you know, when we can't accept the things that were
Speaker 1: given to us along a religious doctrine. You know, here
Speaker 1: we are left with looking into everything, kind of questioning
Speaker 1: all the things that we're told are right or are wrong,
Speaker 1: and we're left with this human rights question. And I
Speaker 1: think LGBTQ rights are human rights, and so therefore I'm
Speaker 1: forced to consider, well, what's right and what's wrong when
Speaker 1: it comes to that as well. And what's right is
Speaker 1: treating people with respect and understanding that you know, people
Speaker 1: are people, they deserve to share this space, right, this
Speaker 1: little blue dot. The we'reld on trying to figure everything
Speaker 1: out until we're not here anymore. And so Chloe, there's
Speaker 1: room for you just to just kind of build upon
Speaker 1: with the with my two friends here was saying a
Speaker 1: minute ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know for me, you know, and there's that
Speaker 3: the time at the time, people are like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: it's all about the God belief this other stuff that
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. But look like leaving my religion, liberation from
Speaker 3: religion to me is so much more than just the
Speaker 3: God thing, because you can liberate yourself from a lot
Speaker 3: of beliefs that end up being intertwined with that religious belief.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: Like we often talk about the connection between political views,
Speaker 3: for example, and religious beliefs, they're absolutely intertwined, especially in
Speaker 3: the American idea of Christianity, right, And so it's like
Speaker 3: when you when you liberate yourself from a Christian belief
Speaker 3: you're often liberating yourself from all kinds of other social
Speaker 3: views as well, and that is absolutely definitely worth exploring,
Speaker 3: like in our space as well. So yeah, I just
Speaker 3: again just point of emphasis here, like, yeah, I agree
Speaker 3: that there's absolutely room and space for people of all
Speaker 3: folks to come into having conversation with us. And I
Speaker 3: appreciate you you you well, being willing to talk to
Speaker 3: us today even though you don't identify with that. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that that being said, you know, I guess I don't
Speaker 3: know where you want to take things from here. If
Speaker 3: you want to go.
Speaker 1: See I want to see what Chloe has to say,
Speaker 1: and then I want to I want to get to
Speaker 1: some other calls. So Chloe, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your call, and uh, any any reflections on what we've
Speaker 1: had to talk about today before we let you go.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just want to say that more or less
Speaker 5: that I don't identify as an atheist anymore because of
Speaker 5: the experiences that I've had. It is not because it
Speaker 5: is not because it was not because of that that
Speaker 5: because of Elevator Gate. It was the you know, trusting
Speaker 5: the experiences that I've been having in my life and
Speaker 5: finally not running away from that. What I am here for, though,
Speaker 5: and what I am will always be there for, is
Speaker 5: the struggle. So if if I am needed, I will
Speaker 5: be there so and I feel.
Speaker 2: Well, well, if you ever want to call and talk
Speaker 2: about what you believe and why, and let let us
Speaker 2: do that next time. Your beliefs and yeah, these call
Speaker 2: us back some time.
Speaker 3: Let's see that next time, Chloe. If you're down for it,
Speaker 3: because I'd love to talk about those experiences with you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love to actually talk about them, but.
Speaker 1: Have great hell yeah, Asometoey, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a being a fan, being a contributor, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to Uh, I can't wait to talk to
Speaker 1: you again. You know, old habits die hardfellas and uh,
Speaker 1: when someone comes in and talks about their beliefs, I
Speaker 1: got to get to it. But you know there's something
Speaker 1: else we got to get to and that's talk ethen
Speaker 1: to me. All right, first, I want to shout out
Speaker 1: aj Nero and Benjamin waiting on the line. We will
Speaker 1: get to you, but we have to do talk Eithen
Speaker 1: to me, which is a lot of fun. Last week
Speaker 1: we asked you what's a bad reason to summon a demon?
Speaker 1: And here are our top three answers. Number three, Jenna Page,
Speaker 1: A bad reason to summon a demon to help with
Speaker 1: an exorcism unless you're doing it ironically.
Speaker 3: That's kind of awesome though. Wait, I actually like that
Speaker 3: concept a lot, summoning demons to fight other demons. It's
Speaker 3: kind of like the Lady who swallowed a horse, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like a yeah, it just keeps going.
Speaker 2: You know more about how to who would know more
Speaker 2: about how to appropriately do an exorcism than another demon would? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You want their help?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that I think that would. I mean that
Speaker 1: we haven't we thought of this before? I mean, I
Speaker 1: see I disagree with that. I see a sequel to
Speaker 1: the sequel of The Exorcist coming up where demons are
Speaker 1: actually taking taking control. Number two X million, don't summon
Speaker 1: a demon when you're feeling horny?
Speaker 2: Again, I have to disagree. Yeah, I do to better.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could commit all kinds of things that
Speaker 1: God doesn't want us doing this. Yeah, but are are
Speaker 1: you being Is this like a play on words feeling horny?
Speaker 1: Like as demons have horns because I see what it
Speaker 1: did their x million? But I feel like I feel
Speaker 1: like a demon is good for horny times. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Number one, Mike Cattle a bad reason to summon a
Speaker 1: demon when you need help finding Jesus man.
Speaker 2: I don't think that I've yet to hear bad reason
Speaker 2: to some of the demons. I don't think there is one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's always a good idea.
Speaker 3: It's always a good same some of demons.
Speaker 2: Kids.
Speaker 1: That's how you make friends race.
Speaker 3: That's the forest Alceiz stamp of approval right there.
Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite memes on the interwebs
Speaker 1: is the person sitting in their bed and the demons
Speaker 1: sitting next to them talking, and it says, when your
Speaker 1: demons come to haunt you, but they realize they have
Speaker 1: a lot in common with you. All right, all right,
Speaker 1: good reasons.
Speaker 2: While we were, while we were on that call, by
Speaker 2: the way, I'm sorry, I think you were there was
Speaker 2: a transition, but it was all right. We got we
Speaker 2: got a two hundred and fifty more Swedish kroner and
Speaker 2: fifty more good old US American freedom dollars as well,
Speaker 2: all for docs without Borders, which brings us up at
Speaker 2: this moment to thirty and eighty six dollars raised.
Speaker 3: Yeah, freaking yeah, nuddy.
Speaker 2: All right, thanks so much everybody donating.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Remember also, folks, you can give
Speaker 1: us a super chat and one of us will read it.
Speaker 1: Most likely. Let's let's keep it within within the confines
Speaker 1: of what's appropriate, but we'll most likely read anything, so
Speaker 1: we don't even look at the prompter, you know, we
Speaker 1: just go or or whatever whatever they'd say.
Speaker 3: Jack I don't know, Jimmy speaks for all of us.
Speaker 3: I think Jimmy doesn't look at the prompt, but you know,
Speaker 3: I think maybe we Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know for sure Jimmy doesn't look at the prompt
Speaker 2: because while he was saying that, we got a producer
Speaker 2: chat that said no super chats today.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: See. See, this is why I needed two people on
Speaker 1: with me, because those you never know what happens.
Speaker 3: We want everybody to donate to Doctors without Borders, to
Speaker 3: be clear, and if you are watching this later today
Speaker 3: and you aren't watching this live, you will still have
Speaker 3: the opportunity to donate. So please don't think that you
Speaker 3: missed the boat on that. So that is what we're
Speaker 3: dedicating to all weekend across all of our shows.
Speaker 1: So well, with that being said, let me not screw
Speaker 1: this up any further, folks, thank you for your answers.
Speaker 1: We have another prompt for next week, okay, and that
Speaker 1: prompt is what fictional character would you choose to defend
Speaker 1: you during an apocalypse? And why, gentlemen, I gotta come
Speaker 1: to you first, Dan, I going with you kittle character?
Speaker 3: Or that's it easy, that's it?
Speaker 1: Would you say?
Speaker 3: Leon?
Speaker 4: Leon?
Speaker 3: Asked Kennedy from Resident evilfore Ah, he went to Spain
Speaker 3: and saved the president's daughter, how much more could he
Speaker 3: do for me? Right? So I'm down, I'm ready. Okay, okay, good,
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 1: I know you've got something brewing.
Speaker 2: It depends entirely on the nature of the apocalypse are
Speaker 2: we talking about, Like if this is a zombie slash
Speaker 2: natural disasters slash climate or some apocalypse like that where
Speaker 2: there's like still pockets of survivors and people needing help
Speaker 2: and like an existential threat that whether it be sentient
Speaker 2: or not like that kind of thing, then I want
Speaker 2: like a Tony Stark that can help me rebuild civilization,
Speaker 2: or like a Gandalf that can like you know, fight
Speaker 2: off hordes and like give wisdom. If it's not, if
Speaker 2: it's like an all out like total nuclear apocalypse, there
Speaker 2: is no life left besides me and this other thing,
Speaker 2: well then the gates are open, because then it does
Speaker 2: have to be even a good guy quote quote that
Speaker 2: is the benefactor. And also the prompt doesn't necessitate it's
Speaker 2: just as a fictional character. It doesn't say it has
Speaker 2: to be a person. So like I could have like
Speaker 2: am from I have no mouth, and I'm a scream
Speaker 2: super amazing insane AI supercomputer that can manipulate matter and
Speaker 2: and and controls how like life and make me live
Speaker 2: for hundreds of years. Doesn't matter that he's evil. If
Speaker 2: he's on my side and there's no other flipping things around,
Speaker 2: then I'm set for a long time.
Speaker 3: The dude can betray you though, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2: But it says to protect me, so like, yeah, the
Speaker 2: scope of the prompt is that he's not.
Speaker 3: I guess it matters based on trust, right, because like
Speaker 3: I could try to get some random guy off the
Speaker 3: internet to protect me. It doesn't mean he'll do it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, that is it. That is a big thing.
Speaker 2: That is a big thing. It totally depends on the
Speaker 2: truthfulness of the prompt and the nature of the apocalypse
Speaker 2: wouldn't be fictional.
Speaker 1: The random guy wouldn't be fictional. We're strictly going fictional here.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Okay, I'm being too nitpicky right now,
Speaker 3: so just ignore me.
Speaker 1: That's all right, forst got you going forrest? Forrest?
Speaker 7: Can he has conditional well, now, make my answer is shitty.
Speaker 7: That's why it's like I just I just take that
Speaker 7: guy with a gun. He's like, I'm gonna a supercomputer.
Speaker 7: What's the guy with the gun gonna do? If the
Speaker 7: apocalypse was like climate change? You know, shoot the tornado.
Speaker 3: That I wasking more zombie outbreaks and you're more like,
Speaker 3: no the.
Speaker 2: Bate in that scenario. You have a lot to talk about.
Speaker 3: Right right right.
Speaker 1: I was hired here to be the host but also
Speaker 1: be kind of the referee and break up the debate
Speaker 1: when it's going off the off the rails. And what
Speaker 1: we need to do is get this thing going, so
Speaker 1: back on track. Thank you for your for your very
Speaker 1: interesting and varied question answers. Gentlemen, uh and remember everybody,
Speaker 1: we are looking forward to your answers. We will read
Speaker 1: the top three next week. Put them in the comments
Speaker 1: section of this video, and we will get to the
Speaker 1: next week. What fictional character would you choose to defend
Speaker 1: you during an apocalypse? And why? Right now, we're going
Speaker 1: to move to some more calls, and I want go
Speaker 1: to AJ in Texas. Does biology make the case for
Speaker 1: moral consideration of non human animals?
Speaker 2: Interesting?
Speaker 1: I would like to take AJ's call. You are on
Speaker 1: with Jimmy Dan and Forrest. How are you?
Speaker 6: Thank guys? How are you doing. I'm getting great. Thank
Speaker 6: you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, AJ, did you know that while we were goofing
Speaker 2: around talking about fictional characters, an anonymous donor donated twenty
Speaker 2: five bucks, and then Sean Isherwood donated five pounds, and
Speaker 2: then David Hacksor donated five color of Calenadian dollars and
Speaker 2: that brings us up tod and twenty one dollars raise
Speaker 2: Doctors Without Borders. I knew that.
Speaker 1: Did you know that?
Speaker 6: I did not know that? But that is fucking awesome,
Speaker 6: you know what?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Nice, nice, But thank you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're Your fundraiser is amazing. I've been following it
Speaker 6: and I'm super part of the work you're doing for
Speaker 6: Doctors Without more oilers.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much, thank you. So what's up? AJ?
Speaker 8: Soh cure?
Speaker 6: I think I promised Dan on the twoth Wanted After
Speaker 6: show on Friday that I will put Hair and Forrest
Speaker 6: kind of on the spot today. And I'm on that
Speaker 6: co that you guys had, you know, with Chase who
Speaker 6: called about veganism. I understood his frustration about the issue
Speaker 6: with the age of the animals that we used to eat.
Speaker 1: But I thought that that wasn't really.
Speaker 6: The best method to determine the whole morality of eating
Speaker 6: animals the argument right, and I thought that there were
Speaker 6: a few points that weren't brought up, and I would
Speaker 6: love to discuss it, especially with Forrest.
Speaker 1: Okay, so well, let's say best for last on this
Speaker 1: and let me go first, because I want to talk
Speaker 1: about this. So I am actually so Chase has had
Speaker 1: an impact on me. So I did. I did meet
Speaker 1: the ACA on September tenth. Okay, that was a Tuesday,
Speaker 1: and Chase came on and we were talking about like
Speaker 1: my life story, if you will, or my transition from
Speaker 1: being a believer into being an atheist. And I can
Speaker 1: harken back to when I was like nine years old
Speaker 1: hearing the story of Jesus taking demons out of a
Speaker 1: man or two men, depending on what story you read,
Speaker 1: and putting those demons into a herd of pigs and
Speaker 1: then killing the pigs, and I guess in effect slaughtering
Speaker 1: or dispelling the demons, right, And I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: why did you have to kill the pigs to do that?
Speaker 1: So Chase popped up. I said, Jimmy, why do you
Speaker 1: have a problem with Jesus? Killing the pigs, but you
Speaker 1: don't have a problem eating pigs, particularly in the circumstances
Speaker 1: of Hawaiian pizza where pineapple and ham go on pizza together,
Speaker 1: which is a different conversation. So Chase challenged me to
Speaker 1: do at least twenty two days of vegan diet, and
Speaker 1: I'm on day twenty five. So I took Chase. I
Speaker 1: took Chase up. And the reason why I chose to
Speaker 1: do that is because he actually makes a really good point,
Speaker 1: like suffering. The suffering is the part that really gets
Speaker 1: me right. The way that animals are treated is a
Speaker 1: conundrum that I am in as somebody who is traditionally
Speaker 1: a meat eater. You know the why, Like I can understand,
Speaker 1: I suppose those eating animals right, And people say, well,
Speaker 1: if aliens or whatever came to Earth and tried to
Speaker 1: eat humans, would that be moral? And my thought as well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it would be moral. But aren't
Speaker 1: isn't that already happening? Aren't things generally trying to eat us?
Speaker 1: Like aren't humans food in something's eyes? I think so,
Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes humans get eaten and it's
Speaker 1: not right or wrong, it's just life. But we do
Speaker 1: treat animals horribly, horribly, and even if we're gonna kill them,
Speaker 1: do we need to treat them the way that we do?
Speaker 1: And that is where I have a lot of trouble,
Speaker 1: whether regardless of the age of the animal, I don't know,
Speaker 1: kind of coming up with a with a justification. So
Speaker 1: right now I'm kind of in this phase where I'm analyzing,
Speaker 1: you know, my beliefs on that and I'm kind of
Speaker 1: trying to work my way around it. And for the
Speaker 1: time being, I'm taking Chase up on his challenge and
Speaker 1: going as far as I can. But I do think
Speaker 1: that that animals deserve humane treatment, if that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and that's a problem for me. So all right, thank
Speaker 1: you for letting me get on that spiel. I'm need
Speaker 1: to kick it over. You said you wanted to talk
Speaker 1: to Forrest. I'm gonna give it to Forrest first, because
Speaker 1: I know Dan is going to bust at the seams
Speaker 1: with all the things that Forrest is gonna say as
Speaker 1: the resident Vegan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me tell you why Dan is wrong. So
Speaker 2: the thing that I think is really no, I think
Speaker 2: that it's as I said on truth Wanded, I think
Speaker 2: that it is unarguable that the meat industry sucks, the
Speaker 2: way we treat animals sucks, that we need to be
Speaker 2: eating less meat overall for climate reasons. I think those
Speaker 2: are unarguable points. It is very obvious that even if
Speaker 2: you don't want to grant you know, the human level
Speaker 2: sentience to different animals, goalsand bigs certainly know what's going on,
Speaker 2: and they Having raised some of them myself, I can
Speaker 2: tell you like, yeah, they're intelligent creatures that have emotions
Speaker 2: and have you know, the desires and feelings and things
Speaker 2: are like, I think the way that they're treated in
Speaker 2: like factory farms and the inhumane way in which they
Speaker 2: are often slaughtered and processed is completely unacceptable and needs
Speaker 2: to be fixed immediately. And also, UH it is a
Speaker 2: major climate issue because you know that that much biomass,
Speaker 2: that much the the the gas production, the waste production,
Speaker 2: the hormones use, the the antibiotics use, the all these
Speaker 2: things that are used in order to try to skirt
Speaker 2: around ethical treatment and and ethical land management. UH has
Speaker 2: dire ramifications not only for those animals, but also for
Speaker 2: the climate, for the land that those animals living on,
Speaker 2: for the populations those animals are feeding. Occasionally it's it's
Speaker 2: it's an all around shit deal that needs to be
Speaker 2: reformed like dramatically. That being said, I can also understand
Speaker 2: that veganism might not be a viable option for everybody
Speaker 2: for either economic reasons, which I think we made the
Speaker 2: point earlier on the last show that like, as more
Speaker 2: vegan options become more available and more proliferated throughout the economy,
Speaker 2: they'll become cheaper and more affordable. That's great. I think
Speaker 2: eating bugs is really cool, and we should be looking
Speaker 2: into more insect proteins as another source to supplant a
Speaker 2: lot of animal or not animal party. A lot of
Speaker 2: mammal based proteins like pork and and and and beef
Speaker 2: and even chicken is avian protein. I think that insect
Speaker 2: protein could be a major factor in replacing that that
Speaker 2: is cheaper and more sustainable to produce and doesn't have
Speaker 2: nearly the same issue of like sentient suffering creatures. That's
Speaker 2: a big thing.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: I also understand that when we do talk about totally
Speaker 2: plant data based diets and and uh economies, soy and
Speaker 2: and avocados and uh, oh gosh, what else the other
Speaker 2: there's a lot of crops that are not super sustainable.
Speaker 2: That like that that that take like a huge amount
Speaker 2: of resources to grow. Uh, that kind of sucks. So
Speaker 2: like they're the almonds Jesus, you know, So like there's
Speaker 2: not nothing to be said for the fact that there
Speaker 2: are still resources being used here. And if you have
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of acres of land dedicated to growing
Speaker 2: soy in order to make enough toe food to feed everybody,
Speaker 2: that's still not great from like climates and sustainability perspective.
Speaker 2: Also a lot of the times this is still because
Speaker 2: we still live in a capitalist tellscape. This is still
Speaker 2: going to rely on the exploitation of humans, usually probably
Speaker 2: in the global South, who are going to be growing
Speaker 2: these these crops to then be shipped up north on
Speaker 2: big container ships, which is bigger problems not only for
Speaker 2: human rights, but also still for climate issues. So like
Speaker 2: I don't think it's reason And I could go on
Speaker 2: and on about like little nitpicky things. I talked on
Speaker 2: Friday about how like wheat soy and preeup peanuts are
Speaker 2: very common vegan alternatives and are also very common food allergies,
Speaker 2: and so that's kind of problematic for people. But like
Speaker 2: I go on and on a little nitpiky things. I
Speaker 2: just think it's important to say that, like, I don't think, well,
Speaker 2: I think veganism is fine. I don't have an issue
Speaker 2: with it. I don't think it is the more world
Speaker 2: endgame that it is often framed as. Like, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of issues that's around the way that we produce
Speaker 2: any kind of food in the world that we live
Speaker 2: in today, and that's what really needs to be addressed,
Speaker 2: and that would ameliorate so many of the problems that
Speaker 2: veganism tries to assess, as well as many other problems
Speaker 2: as well. That's my soapbox comments on that.
Speaker 6: Okay, So but firstly, yeah, yeah, I do have lots
Speaker 6: of comments. Okay, Fortunately, I don't want to ignore Jimmy's
Speaker 6: opening statement, So I'm gonna address that first. Uh yeah,
Speaker 6: that that that was you on the under comments section
Speaker 6: and that they when I was watching the show live,
Speaker 6: and I thought that that was amazing that you started,
Speaker 6: uh the diet based on you know, on chases challenge
Speaker 6: to you. I think that's great, and I think that's
Speaker 6: probably a similar story to what what then has for me.
Speaker 6: It wasn't it wasn't an atheist uh sort.
Speaker 3: Of experience for me.
Speaker 6: It was more hopeful lated first game, trying to change
Speaker 6: my diet for hope and then sort of learning about
Speaker 6: all the different aspects of uh animal welfare that came
Speaker 6: with veganism, with listening to to being a creators and
Speaker 6: YouTube and all of that. So yeah, Jimmy, stick with it.
Speaker 6: I'll reach out to you, you know later, And Forrest,
Speaker 6: I you know, I completely agree without your assessments about
Speaker 6: regarding the kinmate is is that both veganism would create
Speaker 6: like producing vegan proteins, right and and uh not just
Speaker 6: for the environment, but sociological and uh financial issues that
Speaker 6: that brings. And when I do agree with that, what
Speaker 6: I think I had some more specific arguments that I
Speaker 6: hadn't well yeah, obviously I'm sure they have been brought
Speaker 6: up before. But you know, everybody knows that Forrest, you're
Speaker 6: one of my favorites hosts, Like I look after you
Speaker 6: and I respect your knowledge and your perspective. So when
Speaker 6: you're on that college shape.
Speaker 3: Yeah great.
Speaker 6: What What what I mean is that I don't like
Speaker 6: coming from like are trying to fight you, but I
Speaker 6: would like to challenge you. Yeah there's an aspect oh cool, Yeah,
Speaker 6: Like there is like an additional argument that we could make,
Speaker 6: and I think it would resonate a little bit better
Speaker 6: with being a biologist. So, you know, on the car
Speaker 6: with Chase, I understood your argument that meat can be
Speaker 6: part of a healthy diet, but I wanted to dig
Speaker 6: deeper and on your statement on that core when you
Speaker 6: say that humans have evolved to adapt to eat and
Speaker 6: meat and that would get a significant benefit from it.
Speaker 6: And I think that you know, aside from as you
Speaker 6: pointed out that they put allergies and the accessibility in
Speaker 6: areas like food desert or or what severe poverty, it's
Speaker 6: just to say that the majority of people do have
Speaker 6: access to what would be considered an affordable and nu traditionally. Uh,
Speaker 6: then plant based diet not even vegan, not like a
Speaker 6: full vegan, just plant place right, because there's this agnuance,
Speaker 6: This is a difference there to My first question to
Speaker 6: you will be like kind of like a pushback. What
Speaker 6: exactly you mean when you say that we evolved to
Speaker 6: adapt to eating meat and what is this significant benefit
Speaker 6: that we get from it that we cannot get from
Speaker 6: a plant proteins as quality?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what I mean by the evolution thing is
Speaker 2: that like the actual like the evolutionary story of humans.
Speaker 2: Meat eating plays a lot into that meeting. Meat eating
Speaker 2: is a hominine specific adaptation that like plays a lot
Speaker 2: into our evolutionary history, plays a lot into the evolution
Speaker 2: of stone tools, plays a lot of the evolution of
Speaker 2: technology in general. The development of fire was was mainly
Speaker 2: for what I shouldn't say mainly, it was largely for cooking.
Speaker 2: We have evidence of cooking going back, you know, damn
Speaker 2: near a million years, and so like we were able
Speaker 2: to use the meat that we found. We were scavengers
Speaker 2: for a while, and then we actually started being able
Speaker 2: to hunt a little more efficiently and process meat more
Speaker 2: efficiently and cook that meat more efficiently, which made the
Speaker 2: meat more nutritionally beneficial to us and easier to and
Speaker 2: digest as well. And all of this played into specifically
Speaker 2: brain evolution. So we are the way we are largely
Speaker 2: because of our meat made based diet over the past
Speaker 2: two million years, mainly, but you can go back furtherm
Speaker 2: that closer to three to four millionaires. But like that
Speaker 2: that's a big part of it. And what I think
Speaker 2: is really important to say there is that, like you
Speaker 2: can't derive an oft from an is so like you,
Speaker 2: I can't say that, like, yeah, humans of all eating meat.
Speaker 2: It's a big part of our evolutionary history. Therefore we
Speaker 2: should keep doing it. That doesn't make any sense. However,
Speaker 2: there are certain benefits that we do get from I
Speaker 2: can't remember the name of the amino asseid. I think
Speaker 2: it's tyrosine that we can't biosynthesize that we have to
Speaker 2: get from the external environment. And so, like Dan was
Speaker 2: even talking on the last thing, that like supplements are
Speaker 2: important when you're doing these things, there's certain things that
Speaker 2: you need that you would get from a more I
Speaker 2: don't want to say well balanced because that would sound biased.
Speaker 2: A more diverse diet than a plant based diet alone
Speaker 2: can offer. That said, you are right to say that
Speaker 2: there are plenty of people that enjoy a totally normal
Speaker 2: uh uh life with a vegetarian diet. Look at the
Speaker 2: vast like the population of India where you have like
Speaker 2: a huge population of Hindu people that are culturally vegetarian
Speaker 2: and are doing just fine in terms of like you
Speaker 2: know that they're not needing some sort of meat supplement,
Speaker 2: but that isn't vegetarian, is not veganism, And so like
Speaker 2: you can still have milk in there, you can still
Speaker 2: have butter in there, you can still have cheese in there.
Speaker 2: There's still ways you can get some animal protein. So
Speaker 2: that's that's my whole spiel about it. It's just it's
Speaker 2: a part of our history and it's still useful today,
Speaker 2: and I think that it needs to be tempered quite
Speaker 2: a bit better than it is. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: any secret at this point in the medical community that
Speaker 2: like eating less meat is generally a good thing to do,
Speaker 2: and Americans specifically, it's kind of weird how we in
Speaker 2: America specifically, but really just in the in the in
Speaker 2: the you know, Global West like tend to or it's
Speaker 2: just say, global Northwest tend to want some sort of
Speaker 2: meat with every single meal all the time. That's certainly
Speaker 2: not you know, normal. So it needs to be tempered
Speaker 2: quite a bit. But to say that it is either
Speaker 2: uniformly bad or like easy to exclude, I think is
Speaker 2: a pretty big stretch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a j. If you have some responses to forrest,
Speaker 1: that's great. Otherwise I want to bring Dan in as
Speaker 1: well as the resident vegan. So do you have anything
Speaker 1: before we switch over to dan?
Speaker 6: Oh? You know, I would love to get from Dan
Speaker 6: as well. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when we talk about veganism, I just want
Speaker 3: to make sure that we understand that veganism is the
Speaker 3: issuing of animal products. So it's not just the dietary stuff, right,
Speaker 3: It is the issuing of animal products in general. And
Speaker 3: I think that's an important distinction to make, just because
Speaker 3: the case that I make for veganism is a moral case.
Speaker 3: It is not just a case that you know, obviously
Speaker 3: biology plays a huge part in it, but more importantly,
Speaker 3: in plays a part because of the philosophical values that
Speaker 3: veganism brings. And I want to bring this. I think
Speaker 3: I can make my point with this very sise. So
Speaker 3: I talk about this concept that Peter Singer introduces called
Speaker 3: the circle of moral consideration. Right, And so when we
Speaker 3: think about rocks, nobody is going to complain about me
Speaker 3: kicking a rock all day because a rock doesn't really
Speaker 3: have interests. Right. Maybe there's some indigenous tribes somewhere that
Speaker 3: believe that there's spirits within all objects, but we would
Speaker 3: summarily dismiss that, right, because we don't really have a
Speaker 3: lot of good evidence for that. So, you know, that's
Speaker 3: not something that we would care about bringing that further,
Speaker 3: let's talk about dogs, right now. Dogs, If I post
Speaker 3: a picture or a video of me kicking a dog
Speaker 3: on Facebook or something, right, most people are going to
Speaker 3: be you know, shocked, And I would say, justifiably show
Speaker 3: But that's that's kind of a new thing. Renee des Kartes,
Speaker 3: you know, the guy that says I think therefore I am.
Speaker 3: He was it was at the time they called themselves
Speaker 3: natural philosophers, but he was a scientist in any ways,
Speaker 3: and he would do live vivisections on dogs. They would
Speaker 3: put dogs on boards and pin them so that they
Speaker 3: could see their circulation, you know, running through other says,
Speaker 3: and I know, and I know Forrest knows this because
Speaker 3: as he is, he studies this in school. And this
Speaker 3: wasn't just for rene A cart This was quite a
Speaker 3: common practice. And this is a shocking to us. But
Speaker 3: at the time their idea was, well, dogs are basically tumatons, right,
Speaker 3: they don't have souls, so they don't really have the
Speaker 3: same level of moral equivalence or value. But the truth is,
Speaker 3: and I know Forrest knows this as well, is that
Speaker 3: the same sort of systems that are used, the nervous
Speaker 3: system and the Olympic systems are so similar to that
Speaker 3: because they are mammals, extremely similar to that in human beings.
Speaker 3: So there's no reason for me just to think otherwise
Speaker 3: that a dog is. You know, obviously I don't know
Speaker 3: the subjective experience of a dog, right, This is Thomas Nagel, Right,
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like to be a bat,
Speaker 3: but I can make I can make pretty reasonable assumptions
Speaker 3: that dogs can experience a similar subjective sensation when it
Speaker 3: comes to pain. Right, But when we talk about pigs
Speaker 3: and cows, uh, oh, wait a minute, they use those
Speaker 3: same systems, right, There's really no reason for me to
Speaker 3: think differently. We kind of have some cultural bi is
Speaker 3: because we think of pigs and cows as sort of
Speaker 3: animals that are just meant for food. In fact, we
Speaker 3: breed them as such, And the same way that we
Speaker 3: have so many different dog species, we have species of
Speaker 3: cows and species of pigs that directly benefit us as
Speaker 3: humans for products of consumption, when the reality is they
Speaker 3: actually still have those same systems, that those same life
Speaker 3: preserving instincts in interest of their own that aren't dissimilar
Speaker 3: to dogs or cats or any of these other animals
Speaker 3: that we would be mortified in harming. But yet we
Speaker 3: continue to justify these farm bread the harm of these
Speaker 3: farm bread animals, because we say, well, this is for
Speaker 3: our consumption. My conclusion is that this is a blind
Speaker 3: spot in our reasoning. I think that we can move
Speaker 3: beyond this. Chase was calling in on Friday because it
Speaker 3: was celebrating fifteen years of not eating animals, right, And
Speaker 3: the truth is there, for thousands of years, there have
Speaker 3: been cultures that have been able to do this. This
Speaker 3: isn't exactly a brand new thing. It's just something that
Speaker 3: particularly in the West where we don't really have that
Speaker 3: same sense of issues. Like, you know, God has kind
Speaker 3: of given us dominion over animals, right historically in the
Speaker 3: Christian canon, so like we've always kind of viewed ourselves
Speaker 3: as above. But I think the view of biology actually
Speaker 3: helps inform us, if anything, that we are way more
Speaker 3: closer to animals than we might think, including with our
Speaker 3: systems of feeling pain. Right. So you know, that's kind
Speaker 3: of my case for why I think it is actually
Speaker 3: a justifiable position to take that it is sort of
Speaker 3: the moral endgame, if you will, as Forrest put it,
Speaker 3: to adopt a vegan perspective, So hopefully that wastinct enough.
Speaker 2: No, I think that was great. In the meantime, in
Speaker 2: the interim, I'm not trying to pull the bullshit of
Speaker 2: like we can't do solar farms because the blades aren't recycled.
Speaker 2: But you know, curiously, if we're replacing thing a lot
Speaker 2: of animal products, leather of gelatine, poresine, and bovine heart
Speaker 2: valves that we use for transplant patients, Like there's the
Speaker 2: mice and rats that we use to study, you know, disease,
Speaker 2: and like make it like, if we're getting rid of
Speaker 2: all of these things, what are we filling these gaps with?
Speaker 2: And from a from a materials perspective, that would be
Speaker 2: a lot more plastics, a lot more textiles, which are
Speaker 2: damaging to the environment and to the communities that are produced.
Speaker 2: In the biomedical side, we're losing a tremendous amount of
Speaker 2: technology and innovation that would save thousands millions of lives
Speaker 2: if we you know, so, like, what where's the line
Speaker 2: there in terms of like service animals. I mean, flip dude,
Speaker 2: where's the line here in terms of like using animals
Speaker 2: to benefit humans? Where we're like we were saying we
Speaker 2: can no longer do that.
Speaker 3: I'm not against people using service animals. I don't think
Speaker 3: there's a service animal unless you're deliberately mistreating service animals
Speaker 3: in some sort of way. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't just mean you know, sorry, I don't mean
Speaker 2: to get you. I don't just mean service animals for
Speaker 2: like you know, blind people for example, or for like
Speaker 2: like anxiety or whatever. Like I'm saying, like when we
Speaker 2: use animals as like tools, like when we use them
Speaker 2: for hunting, we use them for bomb sniffing, when we
Speaker 2: use them for drug sniffing, like that is putting those
Speaker 2: animals in harms.
Speaker 3: To be clear, the vegan perspective would be there would
Speaker 3: be no hunting, right, so that that's one thing. But
Speaker 3: but but yeah, so I mean, uh. Peter Singer, I think,
Speaker 3: also talks about this in his book and Deliberation. He
Speaker 3: actually talks about the you know, the benefits that come
Speaker 3: with using animal models versus computer models when it comes
Speaker 3: to research in uh, you know, modern medicine and also
Speaker 3: well one he makes the case that there's a lot
Speaker 3: of unnecessary abuse that occurs. And I'm sure you're aware
Speaker 3: of this as well. The perfume industry for example, when
Speaker 3: we know, like, hey, we want to make sure that
Speaker 3: this stuff is safer testing, we do that by basically,
Speaker 3: you know, like spraying stuff in like rabbits eyes and
Speaker 3: stuff and seeing if, like you know, they react to that,
Speaker 3: which is of course painful to the rabbit and stuff.
Speaker 3: So there's sure, you know, there's there's there's you know,
Speaker 3: benefits that come with But.
Speaker 2: To play Devil's advocate there, like that is done so
Speaker 2: that if we find out the rabbit goes blind, we
Speaker 2: don't mass market that to humans, to blind a bunch
Speaker 2: of humans. Yeah, so like I'd rather blind one rabbit
Speaker 2: than like ten thousand kids who sprayed perfume in their face.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, let's say too, Let's say this because you
Speaker 3: you you there's a lot of things that I don't
Speaker 3: think I can cover in a single call with you here.
Speaker 3: WHATEVERULD say is what the simplest case I can make,
Speaker 3: right is, let's say that there is a category of
Speaker 3: this is absolutely what has to happen with animals in
Speaker 3: order for humans to flourish. Right, Let's say that exists,
Speaker 3: And some vegans may agree with you there and say, hey,
Speaker 3: like yeah, actually that exists. There has to be some
Speaker 3: animals that are done for this testing or this kind
Speaker 3: of thing. Right, does that category include my McDonald's cheeseburger?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 3: I don't think so, And I don't think you would
Speaker 3: think so either.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 3: I think there's definitely going to be right instances where
Speaker 3: we don't actually need to use as much animals as
Speaker 3: we have to wind, if not for moral reasons, we
Speaker 3: can talk about climate reasons, we can talk about for
Speaker 3: all these other things. Right, So, like, is is everybody
Speaker 3: going being vegan going to address every single issue or
Speaker 3: problem that comes we're using animals? Is it going to?
Speaker 3: Are we going to have instant solutions for every single thing?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: But how many solutions have we come up with now? Right?
Speaker 3: Because more people are adopting an ethic that involves the
Speaker 3: issueing of animal products, right, it has to happen at
Speaker 3: some point we have to make changes. I think you
Speaker 3: would agree with this too, right that, Like, look, we're
Speaker 3: going to have to make global changes in our diet.
Speaker 3: How many people are talking about bugs being used as
Speaker 3: a protein source? Right, it's going to happen. For me?
Speaker 3: That means making the cho changes in my life now
Speaker 3: to do that. I don't have the answers for every
Speaker 3: single you know, use case for animals. But I do
Speaker 3: know that there's a lot more solutions than when people
Speaker 3: give give it granted for and if I can at
Speaker 3: least issue as much as I can, because I'm never
Speaker 3: going to be perfect about it, right as if I
Speaker 3: drive my car, I might hit a fly or something, right,
Speaker 3: And the debate, of course how much bugs factor into this,
Speaker 3: But the point is I think I'm going to be
Speaker 3: living more in align with my values if I try
Speaker 3: to be as consistent as I can with my principles,
Speaker 3: and that being issuing as much animal process as as
Speaker 3: it means necessary for my own life. So there's my
Speaker 3: case there, Joe.
Speaker 2: But I definitely want to I'm sorry, sorry, I just
Speaker 2: very quick. I definitely want to just say I appreciate
Speaker 2: you saying that, because like it is a problem whenever
Speaker 2: somebody tries to oppose a new system, Like anytime I
Speaker 2: talk about socialism or something, it's like, well, how are
Speaker 2: you going to fix every single possible thing?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: I don't want to go And I also don't want
Speaker 2: to try to get on this moral like grandstand that
Speaker 2: the people do this kind of sea lie anything where
Speaker 2: it's like Okay, well you're you're still buying shoes, and
Speaker 2: shoes are made by Child's Land. All these things, there's
Speaker 2: any moral thing is going to overshadow this moral thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just that's I want to make sure that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, for the people watching, you and I agree
Speaker 2: on a lot about Yes.
Speaker 1: It's just that extra bit.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, I think I don't think there's anybody on
Speaker 2: the shows that that disagrees on like the bulk of
Speaker 2: the argument that that animals are treated poorly and should
Speaker 2: be utilized less. I think that, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I think that less. It's so it's so disheartening to
Speaker 1: realize that whenever you're trying to work for some moral
Speaker 1: good you uncover two or three more moral goods that
Speaker 1: you also have to face another challenge that have to
Speaker 1: overcome in order to achieve the first thing. Right, So
Speaker 1: I think that I think that kind of speaks to
Speaker 1: the laundry list of things that Dan and Forrest kind
Speaker 1: of just outlaid. But but aj, I'd like to ask
Speaker 1: you you want to do you want to reflect on that,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to move on to some other calls.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, absolutely, I think all of yous hit it
Speaker 6: spot on, absolutely, and in the last few minutes when
Speaker 6: you were saying that, you know, we shouldn't expect one
Speaker 6: hundred percent of the population to go one hundred percent
Speaker 6: big And I think that the conversation is more about
Speaker 6: trying to get people to realize that we can actually
Speaker 6: use biology to inform the reduction of harm, not just
Speaker 6: of humans, but of non human animals. And we know
Speaker 6: that the use of animals, you know, as for as
Speaker 6: mentioned alier, the environmental impact is pretty big and it's
Speaker 6: it's definitely affects human world being.
Speaker 3: But I'm really.
Speaker 6: Glad that you guys did this back and forth conversation
Speaker 6: because that was exactly where where I was going. Like
Speaker 6: the second part of my question was going to be about,
Speaker 6: you know, uh, the biological implications of what how we
Speaker 6: use animals and how we how do we decide were
Speaker 6: to use animals. So because I often hear Forrest and
Speaker 6: Eric talk about the similarities between chimpanzees and you know,
Speaker 6: like the brain that the DNA and behaviors being so
Speaker 6: similar to humans. Dan mentioned, you know, things the news
Speaker 6: for cardiac uh issues. My my teenager has, you know,
Speaker 6: about replacements, and one of the options was a big valve.
Speaker 6: We went with the mechanical for for different reasons, but
Speaker 6: you know that was an option and had I needed
Speaker 6: to make that decision obviously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're going to save your child, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think yeah, and I think Dan, you know,
Speaker 1: Dan alluded to that those two points very well.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So so one, right, I don't think humans really understand
Speaker 1: and this speaks to your question initially about the biology.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think people really understand how similar
Speaker 1: humans are to other animals. Right, And then also this
Speaker 1: idea that we're not saying that sometimes, you know, an
Speaker 1: animal might have to be impacted for humans to survive,
Speaker 1: and and but that's that doesn't necessarily have to be
Speaker 1: the default of our our everyday lives. And so there
Speaker 1: is a distinction that can be made there. For me,
Speaker 1: I think the case that Chase made to me was here,
Speaker 1: I am being this activist against human suffering, but I'm
Speaker 1: paying people to murder other animals just and it's okay
Speaker 1: for me because they don't look like me. And I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, dude, And so that's why I took
Speaker 1: a step back to re examine everything. But aj, I
Speaker 1: want to thank you for invoking a really thought provoking
Speaker 1: conversation between these two big brains to my right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the TV, it's my right. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if I'm looking at it, they're on my left. Who knows,
Speaker 1: it's subjective, but AJ, did you have any land? Did
Speaker 1: you have any parting show? Before we move on, well.
Speaker 6: I mean, the last thing I will say is that,
Speaker 6: you know, my my problem with this is like we
Speaker 6: are kind of using the same argument that still using
Speaker 6: that humans are superious creators and we shouldn't be used
Speaker 6: in this kind of position. And yes, that's my ending.
Speaker 1: That's important, that's an important point, and that it comes
Speaker 1: with the connection I think that Dan was making about Hey,
Speaker 1: how how similar are we all? Are we anyway? And
Speaker 1: I know that you've heard Forrest mention that mention that
Speaker 1: if you've been watching him at all for the years
Speaker 1: that he's been doing this, Yeah, I mean, we're all
Speaker 1: just kind of we're all animals.
Speaker 3: Right, And to be clear too, sorry to mean a
Speaker 3: re you know, there's a there's a misconception as well
Speaker 3: that the case is like, oh, well, if there's a
Speaker 3: fire and there's a dog and human, are you going
Speaker 3: to save the dog over the human. No, I will
Speaker 3: save the human every day of the week, right, but
Speaker 3: like that's that's not the point. The point is that
Speaker 3: we're similar enough to where the dog does have some consideration,
Speaker 3: then that I would make a consideration if possible, right,
Speaker 3: So yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, So, so uh this has been a great
Speaker 1: call a j. We are gonna let you go and
Speaker 1: continue with the rest of our show. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being for being a part of our being
Speaker 1: a part of our atheist community and call in any time,
Speaker 1: but we are gonna get going. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: and I hope you have a wonderful Sunday. So uh,
Speaker 1: with that being said, guys, I could still I like,
Speaker 1: I feel like there are things I keep want to
Speaker 1: say say, but like I just need to move on.
Speaker 1: We just need to because amplished.
Speaker 2: We could do that call all day.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sure, for sure, but you know what we
Speaker 1: need to do, and we have to go to the
Speaker 1: crew can because it's important that not only do people
Speaker 1: understand that we are all animals, uh.
Speaker 3: But we are all working together the people handsome animals.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So thank you everybody for making this show
Speaker 1: possible and for bringing us three on for bringing me on.
Speaker 1: What the hell were you thinking? I've already screwed up
Speaker 1: a couple so I don't know. I don't think i've
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Think i've worked with you. I think maybe we've done
Speaker 2: one show together, you and I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, one what a couple of weeks or about
Speaker 1: a month ago right at the backwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was worth it to do so I
Speaker 2: wanted to. I wanted to work with you again. So
Speaker 2: this is great.
Speaker 1: I don't want we have good mojo. I think our
Speaker 1: mojo is good. You know you haven't asked. I'm not
Speaker 1: one of the people. I don't think that. Forrest said
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to work with I mean, there's still time,
Speaker 1: there's still time. But you know, I think it's going well.
Speaker 3: Dan.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you keep coming on with me.
Speaker 1: I've been working for you, working with you for like
Speaker 1: a year, and hey man, whatever, it's your life, folks.
Speaker 1: I got to get to some I got to get
Speaker 1: to some announcements. One that I am super enthusiastic about
Speaker 1: because I have bought a brick. Okay, I bought my
Speaker 1: own brick. And it says something like religion is destructive
Speaker 1: or something, and it's in the ground at the ACA
Speaker 1: headquarters as is Forrest's Dan, Do you have a brick there?
Speaker 3: No, you know, I need to get a break there.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well I don't know why I haven't done yet.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you said that, because we are
Speaker 1: now initiating phase two of the Brick fundraiser and we
Speaker 1: want to highlight some stand orders that we received. So
Speaker 1: this week's featured brick goes out to Kim in Oregon.
Speaker 1: I saw Forrest vomit on a boat. Love you too,
Speaker 1: damn man, she got you. Thank you to your purchased Kim.
Speaker 1: We weren't going to talk about that. You know, what
Speaker 1: happens at the ACA bat Cruise stays at the bat Cruise.
Speaker 2: You know, it's crazy. It was a different boat and
Speaker 2: it was different vomit.
Speaker 3: Wow yeah yeah, well, well.
Speaker 1: I guess Forrest. You know, I thought maybe you were
Speaker 1: vomiting at the bat Cruise for some other reason, but
Speaker 1: it turns out you can't handle boats. So it was
Speaker 1: a wild time in South America.
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cool, well, Kim, thank you so much. Everybody else you
Speaker 1: could get your bricks a tiny dot CC forward slash
Speaker 1: call ACA Bricks and below the chat. We are running
Speaker 1: it again. I want to remind everybody we're running at
Speaker 1: the direct fundraiser to benefit Doctors Without Borders, so click
Speaker 1: donate before the YouTube chat to give them money directly.
Speaker 1: We will not take a cut of this, and we
Speaker 1: have to have to talk about our top five patrons.
Speaker 1: Who wants to read this? Dan? You want to read
Speaker 1: the top five patrons?
Speaker 3: Shoot? Okay, yeah, I got it, I got it. I'm here,
Speaker 3: I'm here, all right. So top five patrons for this week.
Speaker 3: Number one, oops, all Singularity, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: being our number one patriot. Number two comes from Dingleberry Jackson.
Speaker 3: Number three Levy hell Vetti, who is also patron of
Speaker 3: the week on Truth Wanted on Friday. Thank you, Clevi
Speaker 3: hill Veddy. Number four was left in the leaves. Number five,
Speaker 3: of course Neil the six oh four atheist, and honorable
Speaker 3: mention goes to Michael Alessi. Thank you to everybody that
Speaker 3: donates to the talk. Heithan Patreon. If you want to
Speaker 3: have your name red on the air, then please consider
Speaker 3: supporting us at tiny dot cc slash Patreon t h
Speaker 3: y yep, yep yep. And on that note too, we
Speaker 3: are going to be doing an after show after this,
Speaker 3: so check that out as well. You know, if you're
Speaker 3: cool hanging out with me, at least I'm going to
Speaker 3: be there. These two gentlemen will not be able to
Speaker 3: make it today, but I'm going to stop by, So
Speaker 3: check that out if you want.
Speaker 2: And thank you to David haxe Or for donating another
Speaker 2: twenty dollars, And thank you to Philip Mitchell for donating
Speaker 2: another fifty dollars and bringing us closer and closer to
Speaker 2: our goal of as much money as possible raise for
Speaker 2: Doctors Without Boarders. That brings up to thirty thousand, three
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve dollars that we have raised so far
Speaker 2: to save lives all around the world.
Speaker 1: Man, this is really turning out to be a successful show,
Speaker 1: and I'm super excited about it. Yeah, thank you everybody.
Speaker 1: You know, just like taking time out of your day
Speaker 1: to dedicate your attention, taking money out of your wallet
Speaker 1: to dedicate your resources to other people, you know, if
Speaker 1: you believe in God or not. Like we're on the
Speaker 1: same team as my good friend's secularity would say, And
Speaker 1: so I just think it's great. We're going to move
Speaker 1: into a different call. We have had somebody waiting on
Speaker 1: the line. We promised to take her call. I'm excited
Speaker 1: about this call. We're going to go to Nero and Tennessee. Neiro.
Speaker 2: I got to say. We also we did a chat
Speaker 2: Paul at the beginning of the show, and eight percent
Speaker 2: of all people on the planet said that they would
Speaker 2: call in and talk about how God helps people, helps
Speaker 2: suffering people. It's eight percent of the chapel. That's that's
Speaker 2: that's hundreds of millions of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, our size is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eight percent of all people. And they're obviously not
Speaker 1: doing it. They're not doing it there. Don't don't be
Speaker 1: a coward there on the internet and not in real life.
Speaker 3: They don't think they can handle us. Jimmy, we're too tough,
Speaker 3: We're too big. I don't know.
Speaker 1: All right, Niro, you are on with Jimmy, Dan and Forrest.
Speaker 1: How's it going going good?
Speaker 9: How are y'all doing?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Really good?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna plagiar eyes. Never had a bad day in
Speaker 1: my life. Who says that there is so so?
Speaker 3: Niro?
Speaker 1: Your question, how likely is it that we find life
Speaker 1: in our solar system? Given how deep the Earth we've
Speaker 1: discovered life? Dan? You know, I think this has your
Speaker 1: name written all over it.
Speaker 3: And well, we weren't debating whether or not if we
Speaker 3: discovered aliens tomorrow that like Doctors without Borders would go
Speaker 3: help those aliens. So yeah, we're definitely down, definitely down
Speaker 3: for that.
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're if Doctors without Borders is going
Speaker 1: to live up to its name, they can't be.
Speaker 3: They gotta go. We're in a human conflict with with aliens.
Speaker 3: Do you think the doctors without Borders would would would would.
Speaker 1: Would be, they would be non combatants, they would have
Speaker 1: to everybody.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, so what better way to build that union
Speaker 9: with the.
Speaker 1: Diplomacy. Diplomacy comes in so many forms. Never mind the.
Speaker 2: Fact that, like we have no idea about any of
Speaker 2: their anatomy and physiology, and penicillin is arsenic to them.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter. We're gonna help.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: So gentlemen, I don't know how you feel about the
Speaker 1: likelihood of finding life in our solar system.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm one of these people. I'm I'm I'm kind of
Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a dichotomy. I Mean, on one hand,
Speaker 1: I have to say, man, I mean, it's got to
Speaker 1: be out there. There's got to be a circumstance where.
Speaker 3: It is in our Oh sorry I'm interrupting.
Speaker 1: No, well, it's fine. It's fine because you're the truth
Speaker 1: wanted guy.
Speaker 3: I haven't taken my medication in case you can't tell no. So,
Speaker 3: so what I would say this is, if it's intrasolar system, right,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be onlike Europa or some other moon where
Speaker 3: like the water is frozen and it's gonna be like microbial.
Speaker 3: If like you know, it's gonna be sub microbial. It's
Speaker 3: gonna be like single cell like, it's going to be
Speaker 3: not super complex life at all. It's not gonna be
Speaker 3: like aliens with rovers and ray guns and fighting will
Speaker 3: Smith or whatever. It's gonna be like, oh hey, we
Speaker 3: found something that we can only see through these electron microscopes.
Speaker 3: You know. So that's my take.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, good point. You said solar system. I
Speaker 1: was about to just take it, take it every everywhere,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Uh well, Nero specifically asked if we found life in
Speaker 2: our solar system, and like that, I think Dan hit
Speaker 2: the nail on the head. We were talking about places
Speaker 2: like Europa where you have this like thick ice crust,
Speaker 2: but you also have clearly like hot water underneath that ice.
Speaker 2: Like you have geysers coming up all the time because
Speaker 2: you have extreme tectonic activity, strong gravitational pull from its
Speaker 2: associated planet. And so you've got rocky core, warm water,
Speaker 2: and a shell that protects you from space. Those are
Speaker 2: the ingredients for life. That's what we got here on
Speaker 2: the planetar If we had a rocky center, we got
Speaker 2: water and the rock meeting of the water, and then
Speaker 2: we got an ozone that's protecting us from ionizing radiation,
Speaker 2: an ice sheet over the top of do the same,
Speaker 2: and so like, that's for sure the recipe for like
Speaker 2: the conditions where life could happen, and not to like
Speaker 2: just bring up the obvious fact that we find the
Speaker 2: building blocks of life all over the place in space
Speaker 2: all the time. So it would be I would be
Speaker 2: shocked if they weren't on Europa to be there to
Speaker 2: do some bubble and to do some verbal and do
Speaker 2: some self assembly. So like not saying there is for
Speaker 2: sure life there, but I would not be even a
Speaker 2: little bit surprised if we were to find life in
Speaker 2: a place like that.
Speaker 1: Does it? Saturn also have a moon like called Titan,
Speaker 1: where they think that there might also be life. Is
Speaker 1: that what what kind of conditions are there that are
Speaker 1: different from Europa.
Speaker 2: Let me double check because I get these ones gonna
Speaker 2: use is I'm not an astro guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, check one of the ones by somewhere else. That's
Speaker 3: the difference.
Speaker 2: Also has a subsurface ocean looks like but I think
Speaker 2: it's not the same situation. Europa has no significant atmosphere,
Speaker 2: no greenoss warning. Europa might maintain liquid water interior. Uh,
Speaker 2: the mechanism of tidal heating and radioactive decay. So that's
Speaker 2: like when we talk about the geysers, that's where those
Speaker 2: would be coming from. Otherwise I don't know where they're
Speaker 2: coming from. There's an astrophysicist or an astronomer in the
Speaker 2: chat right now who's screaming at his computer like, Hey,
Speaker 2: you're missing out on this thing. It's not just radioactive decay,
Speaker 2: it's some other thing. Yeah, I I I don't know
Speaker 2: what the differences are, but I know that like if
Speaker 2: if you have a moon like Europa like Titan, like,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure and sell of this as well, where
Speaker 2: you have subsurface oceans or at least like contained oceans
Speaker 2: of water that are liquid and that are protected from
Speaker 2: ionizing radiation that I don't see a reason why that
Speaker 2: wouldn't be a good candidates for eventual microbial life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 9: The reason why I mentioned the deep biosphere is because
Speaker 9: from what I've gathered, there's been some recent research into it,
Speaker 9: and a lot of talk has popped up about we
Speaker 9: have microbial organisms living anywhere between ten to twenty kilometers
Speaker 9: below ground, completely separated, separated from the atmosphere, shielded from
Speaker 9: all of the radiation from the Sun and outer space,
Speaker 9: and so it's opened up the possibility of as long
Speaker 9: as there's some sort of heating process like a core
Speaker 9: or geologic activity, that there's even more places in the
Speaker 9: Solar System for life to be possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean we're talking, Yeah, we're talking about
Speaker 3: like all right, Forrest would know. I don't know how
Speaker 3: much you know about astrobiology for us, maybe that's out there,
Speaker 3: but like I don't know, Maybe I don't even know
Speaker 3: if these cell walls I'm talking about, like they'd have
Speaker 3: to be very base in brain structure, yea, but not
Speaker 3: necessarily walls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know even like like bacteria have cell
Speaker 2: walls but bacteria are also like remarkably complex, like people
Speaker 2: don't give them enough credit there, They are remarkably complex things,
Speaker 2: and so like, Yeah, a very very very basic organism
Speaker 2: that is prokaryotic that only has a cell membrane, doesn't
Speaker 2: have like the cell member would have to be a
Speaker 2: fluid posaic, but it wouldn't have to be nearly as
Speaker 2: complicated as as like what we have here. It's it's
Speaker 2: wild the thing about just how basic things can get
Speaker 2: and still be a functional, self replicating, evolving chemical system.
Speaker 3: It's almost like God designed it right, like.
Speaker 1: Right, it's a start that you know, well, so we.
Speaker 3: A fake get content. That's it. That's what this show
Speaker 3: has come to.
Speaker 1: I hope we do find life in our solar system
Speaker 1: because I can't wait to see what the impact would
Speaker 1: be to the religious argument about finding life in our
Speaker 1: solar system. And you know, on another note, while I
Speaker 1: don't know much about biology or astrophysics, I do know
Speaker 1: a thing or two about technological innovation, specifically from a
Speaker 1: Department of Defense standpoint, from all my years working in
Speaker 1: defense acquisitions. I would be willing to bet that there
Speaker 1: is an active plan to get to Titan or to
Speaker 1: get to these things right now. And I think while
Speaker 1: I can't put a likelihood on how likely it is,
Speaker 1: well we'll find life in our solar system, I would
Speaker 1: I would say one hundred percent likely that we are
Speaker 1: going to get there to Titan, Like that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: I don't know when, but humans, human beings.
Speaker 3: You think human beings are going to make it?
Speaker 2: A robot not a robot?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think a robot. I think a robot's
Speaker 1: definitely going to.
Speaker 2: Get there, not send a human to Titan.
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to get there, yeah, one way right another.
Speaker 2: I don't recommend it for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: So, Nira, what do you think so far about our
Speaker 1: conversation here? Our remarks?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was mostly just to kind of get y'all's
Speaker 9: view points on in particular the impact of what we
Speaker 9: know about the deeposure now on it. But for like
Speaker 9: how it would affect the religious standpoints. Honestly, I think
Speaker 9: it would just reinforce the fine tuning argument in their minds,
Speaker 9: and I don't think it would do much to dissuade
Speaker 9: the majority.
Speaker 2: Now. That was what actually like help my wife deconvert,
Speaker 2: as she was very Christian and she was like, once
Speaker 2: she learned about how big space is and how like
Speaker 2: unbelievably inevitable extress your life would be just just how
Speaker 2: big the universe is, and how unlikely it is that
Speaker 2: we're the only place of life, she was like, well, fuck,
Speaker 2: does everybody get their own Jesus? Then, like, it doesn't
Speaker 2: make any sense that we would give the one special
Speaker 2: planet and all these other guys out here aren't getting
Speaker 2: a God. And she had already been raised in such
Speaker 2: a way that she already knew every other religion was bullshit,
Speaker 2: So as soon as she let go of that part,
Speaker 2: she was like, nope, done. So, like I think a
Speaker 2: lot of I think you're right. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people would stay very religious and would lean into
Speaker 2: it further and say, okay, well these aliens are demons.
Speaker 2: Or they would say, well, yeah, so life is all
Speaker 2: over the place. That's proof more that God is fine
Speaker 2: tuning this and that and the other. Or they're going
Speaker 2: to say that, yeah, life is abundant, but we're at
Speaker 2: the extra special cool kind because that's because we're chosen
Speaker 2: with the God's chosen things. There's a lot of ways
Speaker 2: for that. But I think it would also drive a
Speaker 2: lot of people away and be like, oh, well, I
Speaker 2: guess I guess humans aren't so special after all. Earth
Speaker 2: isn't so special after all? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually we talked about this on Truth Ponder
Speaker 3: on Friday. NASA a couple of years ago helped sponsor
Speaker 3: a program with the Center for Theological Inquiry. I couldn't
Speaker 3: remember what CTI stood for, but that's what it was
Speaker 3: from Princeton University, and the idea for this was, Hey,
Speaker 3: they want to know the sociological impact of what would
Speaker 3: happen or in the theologically also of what the interpretations
Speaker 3: would be if we were to discover life on Mars, right,
Speaker 3: because obviously that's going to affect Christianity in some way
Speaker 3: or another. Right. And I actually think Freedom from Religion
Speaker 3: Foundation actually sued that project, and I don't think it
Speaker 3: actually went all the way through, but some of the
Speaker 3: people who were a part of that did at least
Speaker 3: publish one book which has been on my wish list
Speaker 3: on Amazon for forever that I want to get to
Speaker 3: and see like kind of like what they were getting
Speaker 3: at with that, because it's an interesting question, right, like
Speaker 3: what's the Catholic Church's response going to be they're going
Speaker 3: to have to have some sort of dogma or something
Speaker 3: on whether we can convert the aliens to Jesus or
Speaker 3: did Jesus die for the aliens or not. I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of the questions there that obviously are
Speaker 3: don't really mean much to us atheist, but wouldn't matter
Speaker 3: to folks who are religious. So it is kind of interesting.
Speaker 9: If I remember what the Pope said, he said something
Speaker 9: along the lines of he wouldn't try to force Christianity
Speaker 9: on them, but if any of them wanted to convert
Speaker 9: and beat baptized.
Speaker 3: He would offer it. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely a precedent
Speaker 3: for that. They've never tried to force people before, so
Speaker 3: you know, I think.
Speaker 2: We trust in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they offer them to be baptized, and that it
Speaker 2: turns out as the aliens from signs and they just
Speaker 2: melt and.
Speaker 3: They melt them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn.
Speaker 3: It's really into melting aliens today for us.
Speaker 1: I think I think Christians are gonna man. I would
Speaker 1: love to see the arguments, the justifications they come up with,
Speaker 1: you know, taking scripture and uh post hoc rationalizing kind
Speaker 1: of the way that it all fits into this. I
Speaker 1: could see Revelation being invoked them over and over and over.
Speaker 3: Right. I think there'll be two parts. Actually, I think
Speaker 3: there'd be a subset of human supremacist Christians who would say, no,
Speaker 3: God actually made us dominion over all God's creation, and
Speaker 3: so we need to be the arbiters of right and wrong,
Speaker 3: et cetera. And then there'd be a subject of that
Speaker 3: with liberal Christians who would say, no, God, we're all
Speaker 3: a part of God's creation and they deserve salvation. I
Speaker 3: definitely I'm going to write a book about this now,
Speaker 3: and so don't take my ideas copyright, coveryright coverry, trademark,
Speaker 3: trademarking all this.
Speaker 1: Actually your ideas are owned by the atheist community of bost.
Speaker 3: Oh no, all right, no, oh no, that sucks.
Speaker 1: But how we feel? How are we at a place
Speaker 1: where you feel comfortable that your question was answered? Do
Speaker 1: you have any remarks?
Speaker 9: Absolutely, I feel like everything was answered.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 9: I love the discussion, and I'm gonna let y'all get
Speaker 9: on to other callers. The only thing I want to
Speaker 9: add in before I run off is for the apocalypse,
Speaker 9: i'd have to pick Kirby and Kirby fans know why
Speaker 9: but Leon is a good choice because he'll never run
Speaker 9: out of backflips.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. Go with the video game stuff.
Speaker 3: I agreed Kirby. If you don't know Kurk, I'm talking
Speaker 3: about Kirby like the Pink guy. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: crazy stuff about Kirby. He's basically an Eldridge monster. If
Speaker 3: you know the war, it's truly horrific. When you Thretty, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, Nero man involved. You know, I appreciate that she
Speaker 1: uh not only came up with some thought provoking conversation
Speaker 1: but got involved with the question of the week. You
Speaker 1: know that's true support right there.
Speaker 3: Heck yeah, you know what else is true support? Donating
Speaker 3: to Doctors Without Borders, which we are doing a fundraiser
Speaker 3: for it this weekend, and for ust you got more
Speaker 3: thanks to read on for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we got another twenty Canadian dollars from David
Speaker 2: Hasor we're doing that call. And twenty more Canadian dollars
Speaker 2: from Lee g And I don't remember if I already
Speaker 2: said Philip Mitchell doing it a fifty dollars not, but
Speaker 2: that was in there somewhere. Overall, the total so far
Speaker 2: raised the Doctors of that borders over the course of
Speaker 2: role for initiatives fourteen episodes and Truth Wanted and now
Speaker 2: Talk Ethan and the Cash Chat Show and all the
Speaker 2: things all together, we have raised thirty thousand dollars, three
Speaker 2: hundred thirty thousand, three hundred and forty one dollars. I
Speaker 2: don't know why I try to say it weird than that.
Speaker 2: Thirty thousand, three hundred and forty one dollars. That's going
Speaker 2: to bandages, that's going to IVS, that's going to insulin,
Speaker 2: that's going to medications, that's going to keeping people alive
Speaker 2: in crisis zones all around the world. If you care
Speaker 2: about the people in Congo, in Sudan, in Palestine and Yemen,
Speaker 2: in Chad, in May and Mar all over the world.
Speaker 2: If you care about the people who are suffering and
Speaker 2: dying at this very moment in places where they are
Speaker 2: not at fault, where they are just people trying to
Speaker 2: live their lives, and governments and wars and religions and
Speaker 2: genocides are going on around them. If you care about
Speaker 2: individual human beings, whether you were atheist, theist, anybody. If
Speaker 2: you are a human and you care about other humans,
Speaker 2: please donate to Docs without borders help save those lives
Speaker 2: all around the world. We're up to thirty three hundred
Speaker 2: and forty one dollars so far. Please help get us
Speaker 2: further because we need your help and forrest. Actually, somebody
Speaker 2: who is a big fan of yours sent.
Speaker 1: In a donation if you check out check out the
Speaker 1: chat below, not the show chat, but the crew chat.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty dollars donation from Tina from Hamilton, Ontario said
Speaker 2: she met me at Baha Khan. Well cool, Well, thank
Speaker 2: you so much, Tina, I appreciate it. Hello from not
Speaker 2: Baha Khan. I'm back wafe home from Canada. I escaped
Speaker 2: Canada and I made it all the way back here
Speaker 2: to good old Loclahoma, a place where we justice mandated
Speaker 2: that every public school classroom must have a copy of
Speaker 2: the Bible endorsed by Donald John Trump. That's a real
Speaker 2: thing that I was. That's not a joke, that's not
Speaker 2: a bit In Oklahoma, we actually just mandated that every
Speaker 2: public school classroom must have and teach the Bible, and
Speaker 2: that Bible must be endorsed by Donald Trump. That is
Speaker 2: actually what has happened in the hell that I live in.
Speaker 2: Good to meet you to Canada, for us.
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't let that go without telling you
Speaker 1: how how blown my mind was with the fact that
Speaker 1: you gave me of that Bible that amendments eleven through
Speaker 1: seventeen were removed.
Speaker 2: Yes, it does not include those specifically the amendments about
Speaker 2: not having slavery and that that race does not determine
Speaker 2: to write to vote that those that part is not
Speaker 2: in the Bible. In the in the thing, it includes
Speaker 2: the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Declaration
Speaker 2: of Independence. And from what I hear all the other
Speaker 2: amendments besides numbers eleven through seventeen, That's what I'm hearing
Speaker 2: from it. Also measured constraints just donated one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Thank you so freaking much, from that being your wallets
Speaker 2: and your hearts to make this whole thing possible.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that Bible debacle is exactly why we have
Speaker 1: the conversations that we have like this is the religion
Speaker 1: is literally taking a education away from the people who
Speaker 1: would benefit from it most, the young people, the people
Speaker 1: who can be attacked by religion most easily. And this
Speaker 1: is how it happens, you know, removing the facts, removing
Speaker 1: certain certain things about our history or just the truth, right,
Speaker 1: Like it is true that eleven and eleven through seventeen
Speaker 1: actually exists, So why take that away? Why we do
Speaker 1: what we do? A perfect representation, gentlemen. We have one
Speaker 1: more call that I'd like to get to, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to go to North Carolina. Homelander. Key him. Homelander
Speaker 1: is a queer atheist currently a university student. Homelander, you
Speaker 1: are on with Jimmy Dan and Forrest. I'd like to
Speaker 1: hear a little bit more about what's on your mind.
Speaker 1: Go ahead.
Speaker 8: Oh my goodness, Oh this is just this is just
Speaker 8: so great.
Speaker 4: I'm a big fan of the show.
Speaker 8: I've been watching it for a long time, especially Forrest's
Speaker 8: just you know, I'm more of like a science centered student.
Speaker 8: I'm actually a freshman here at wake and so like, oh, sorry,
Speaker 8: so I kind of wanted to talk about, like see,
Speaker 8: like at a wake, there are a lot of like
Speaker 8: faith based groups, you know, you have like a Christian group,
Speaker 8: like a Muslim group for like them to hang out,
Speaker 8: you know. And there is an LGBTQ plus center and
Speaker 8: it's right next to the Women's Center in the Benson
Speaker 8: Building and that's really nice. But there isn't really like
Speaker 8: a Secular Student Alliance or anything like that, you know,
Speaker 8: And I was thinking, you know, maybe once I have
Speaker 8: a little more time here at the school, like maybe
Speaker 8: when I'm like a sophomore junior, I should kind of
Speaker 8: like maybe set up like a group like that to
Speaker 8: say like.
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, why would you wait?
Speaker 4: Don't believe in any of this?
Speaker 1: Why would you wait?
Speaker 3: Let me tell you this, Homelander, as someone who has
Speaker 3: I've personally worked with the Secular Student Alliance for a
Speaker 3: number of different things. If you ask, they will give
Speaker 3: you the resources that you need. Okay. Like if you're like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm interested in starting a charter here, They're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: what do we need to give you to make sure
Speaker 3: that a charter gets started? You know, like if it's
Speaker 3: something that you're serious about, like the sooner you get done,
Speaker 3: the better, because you're only going to be at school
Speaker 3: for so many years, right, So setting up that infrastructure
Speaker 3: not just for yourself but for future students, that's a
Speaker 3: big deal.
Speaker 1: Just saying yep, yeah, Homelander, I think I asked like
Speaker 1: why would you wait? Because you know you don't you
Speaker 1: have to hear that old adage like the perfect time
Speaker 1: is now. I feel like that's true in a lot
Speaker 1: of circumstances. You know, Let's let's get a let's get
Speaker 1: ahead of this thing. You know, figure out what are
Speaker 1: the kinks, what are the obstacles I'm working with? What
Speaker 1: do I uh, what do I need to get this done?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you wait till your junior year and
Speaker 1: it takes you a year to really figure out how
Speaker 1: to lay down the success of this organization, you may
Speaker 1: be you may be departing by the time you're ready
Speaker 1: to get going. So I say, you got a good idea, man,
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's just like yeah, it's you know, I'm only eighteen,
Speaker 8: I'm a freshman.
Speaker 4: You know, I want to do it.
Speaker 8: But like I have a lot of like anxiety, you know,
Speaker 8: I have Like there's a lot of like I guess,
Speaker 8: like emotional baggage and stuff that like comes from my
Speaker 8: like my younger years.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 8: I grew up in a place, you know, like where
Speaker 8: Forrest was talking about how he was in third grade
Speaker 8: and like Hugh said, oh, you believe in God? Which God,
Speaker 8: and like it didn't go overwell, Like it was kind
Speaker 8: of a similar thing to me where in like I
Speaker 8: was in fifth grade and people are talking about what
Speaker 8: do you think about like God's plan for us and stuff,
Speaker 8: and I said, I don't really believe in God. And
Speaker 8: the next thing I knew, I was in a headlock.
Speaker 1: So like, you know that, I am so sorry dude
Speaker 1: that you had to go through that. But let me
Speaker 1: tell yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, you first, all right.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. So so we could all
Speaker 1: find excuses all the time about why we might not
Speaker 1: be cut out to do certain things, yet we still
Speaker 1: do them. We have to really push ourselves to take
Speaker 1: take that step to stand up and be an example.
Speaker 1: And for you, you know, I think that that's possible.
Speaker 1: All right, So you are not only eighteen. You're eighteen, right,
Speaker 1: You are not somebody who had this lifestyle and it
Speaker 1: was hard. You're somebody that took a step to go
Speaker 1: away to college to get to get a scholarly the
Speaker 1: scholarly exposure that's going to help you become a better person,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure that that's what you want. You want
Speaker 1: to be educated, and now you're actively looking for ways
Speaker 1: to make other people's lives better. So instead, why don't
Speaker 1: you draw from the confidence that you should have as
Speaker 1: being somebody who withstood those headlocks, withstood all the reasons
Speaker 1: that you could have possibly found to go to college,
Speaker 1: and still doing that. Right, Let's take this great idea,
Speaker 1: let's take that leadership, and let's implement that you can
Speaker 1: do it. And the first way to do that, I
Speaker 1: think is to really say I am capable, right, and
Speaker 1: I don't have all these reasons that are going to
Speaker 1: prevent me. In fact, I'm going to do it despite
Speaker 1: those reasons or in spite of those reasons. And I
Speaker 1: hope that's motivational for you, because you're at a time
Speaker 1: of your life man, that you're you're never going to
Speaker 1: get back, you know, like this is this is college,
Speaker 1: Like this is an awesome time to really branch out
Speaker 1: and challenge yourself and find yourself and help other people
Speaker 1: do that as well. And that's just kind of me
Speaker 1: on my soapbox. So I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say this too. You know, you don't have
Speaker 3: to do this by yourself, right, Like I know that
Speaker 3: they're like Jimmy's doing a very good motivational speech that
Speaker 3: makes you sound like you're on a like a noble
Speaker 3: quest to save the world, and it's not just you.
Speaker 3: You don't have It doesn't have to be just you,
Speaker 3: Like I said, like the regular student a lines, if
Speaker 3: you are really interested, they will help gets you and
Speaker 3: they can get you the resources and you can work
Speaker 3: with them to make sure that you're doing something that
Speaker 3: is going to be like really really great for not
Speaker 3: just you, but also the people around you. And wouldn't
Speaker 3: you want to hang out with other folks like yourself
Speaker 3: on campus and like be feel like that you're represented
Speaker 3: as well, right, because the alternative is what you go
Speaker 3: through the rest of your college experience, not being able
Speaker 3: to have a place where you can feel safe with
Speaker 3: other students talking about these religious issues. I went to
Speaker 3: a college that absolutely benefited from having a secular student
Speaker 3: alliance because there were so many other religious groups on
Speaker 3: campus trying to like tell kids like hey, abortion is
Speaker 3: evil and you're and you're a slut for wearing clothing
Speaker 3: the way that you're wearing, Like you know, it was
Speaker 3: it was almost like a safe David. So, I don't
Speaker 3: know where you're at right and how your college is,
Speaker 3: but I do think it's worth looking into and if
Speaker 3: you need the help to do it, you know the
Speaker 3: resources are out there. So anyway, we're really I don't
Speaker 3: know if this is exactly what you want to call about,
Speaker 3: but we are turning this into a hey, you should
Speaker 3: totally do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would throw in there, you know, like that
Speaker 2: just you said at the beginning area, Somewhere in there
Speaker 2: you said I'm only a eighteen.
Speaker 3: Alliance groups too, Yeah, who do that?
Speaker 2: Like when you say you're only eighteen, it's important to
Speaker 2: remember that that's you're now at the time when you
Speaker 2: can legally do stuff and people will not get in
Speaker 2: your way and demand you have a parent involved and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. This is your chance to be weird.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever told this story online, but
Speaker 2: eighteen is when I started my first company. I filed
Speaker 2: It costs one hundred bucks to file an LLC with
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State here in Oklahoma, and I, like
Speaker 2: Sam Near, on my birthday, I sent off and did that.
Speaker 2: And I started a charity organization with my friends. And
Speaker 2: it was poorly run because it was a bunch of
Speaker 2: eighteen year olds run and we didn't do a phenomenal job.
Speaker 2: But we we brought in several thousand dollars worth of
Speaker 2: toys and clothes that we gave to the homeless shelter
Speaker 2: and to the children's shelter in our town. The children
Speaker 2: shelter isn't even there anymore, but like we did a
Speaker 2: whole Easter egg and a Christmas thing for those kids,
Speaker 2: all with donated items. Were we brought in a ton
Speaker 2: of clothes that we gave out to a local homo
Speaker 2: shelters were Like we brought in a ton of food.
Speaker 2: There was this soup kitchen here in Tulsa that was
Speaker 2: the only one that didn't require you to sit through
Speaker 2: a sermon to get food, and we brought in them
Speaker 2: several hundred dollars with a food Like eighteen was the
Speaker 2: second I started. I was able to do stuff on
Speaker 2: my own legally, and I took full advantage of that,
Speaker 2: and I haven't stopped since. And not everything I've done
Speaker 2: has been a successful. Most of the projects that I've
Speaker 2: worked on have been failures. I can't tell you how
Speaker 2: many times I have booked Why we used to save
Speaker 2: up money for months to book a spot at the
Speaker 2: community center to go and give it free lessons and
Speaker 2: speeches and stuff and do community events, and they bombed
Speaker 2: and I wasted tons of time and money and I
Speaker 2: failed over and over and over and over and over
Speaker 2: and over until I got to a point where I
Speaker 2: was successful at these things and I was able to
Speaker 2: make a career out of this stuff. And now that
Speaker 2: is my career, is trying to help people and trying
Speaker 2: to make the world a better place and doing public
Speaker 2: speaking and stuff. So like, you are at a critical
Speaker 2: point in your life where you get to start failing
Speaker 2: in the right direction, and I encourage you not to
Speaker 2: let the fear of failure, or the fear of your age,
Speaker 2: or the fear of acceptance, or the fear of permission,
Speaker 2: or any of those things stand in your way. You
Speaker 2: want to do something, go fucking do it. And if
Speaker 2: somebody tells you shouldn't do it, go fucking do it anyway.
Speaker 2: And nobody gives you any help, go fucking do it anyway.
Speaker 2: And if you need some assistance and you can't find any,
Speaker 2: go fucking do it anyway. And if you don't have
Speaker 2: the funding, go fucking do it anyway. And if you
Speaker 2: don't have the resources of the talent, go fucking do
Speaker 2: it anyway. The only time that you shouldn't go fucking
Speaker 2: do something is if it would be morally problematic for
Speaker 2: you to do it without the by yourself. But in
Speaker 2: most situations, if you're just trying to help people, the
Speaker 2: answer is go fucking do it. And especially at eighteen,
Speaker 2: I always say, if you are trying to find yourself,
Speaker 2: the best way to find yourself is to lose yourself
Speaker 2: in the service of other people. So at this point
Speaker 2: in your life. The way I found science, the way
Speaker 2: I found education, the way I found public speaking was
Speaker 2: because those were places where I found my talents came
Speaker 2: out the most win being helpful. When when helping other people,
Speaker 2: you find that intersection between your passion and your talent
Speaker 2: and what the world needs right now. When you find
Speaker 2: now at this point in your life, and it will
Speaker 2: change the rest of your life and it will make
Speaker 2: your life beneficial to the people around you. So this
Speaker 2: is your time. Go fucking do it and don't get
Speaker 2: anybody in your way.
Speaker 5: Check.
Speaker 3: Can I get an amen? Amen?
Speaker 5: For that one?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I feel great. I feel great after that.
Speaker 3: I'm going to do after this crazy I'm motivated.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 8: Like the way I think about it's like, you know,
Speaker 8: I'm a freshman and I'm already taking honors organic chemistry.
Speaker 4: I should be out there.
Speaker 8: I like, I'm already like getting all these hours, and
Speaker 8: I should like, go I should be someone.
Speaker 4: I should be someone big on this. I should be
Speaker 4: you know, hell, yes, you should just like I should.
Speaker 8: I should be going for for you know, like you know,
Speaker 8: it's just like you know, I guess think about it as.
Speaker 4: Like I'm the I'm among the next generation of scientists.
Speaker 4: I could you know, yeah you.
Speaker 2: Are like yeah, yeah, you know there are a bunch
Speaker 2: of mixing.
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of people who I've not been
Speaker 1: born yet that are going to rely on you to
Speaker 1: take them into the future. And you owe it to
Speaker 1: yourself to get going now.
Speaker 3: Man, truth absolutely damn.
Speaker 1: You know, go ahead.
Speaker 8: There was one thing I wanted to like mention, so
Speaker 8: there was Uh it's actually reminds me there was one
Speaker 8: time I like, there's an aunt I have who lives
Speaker 8: in Louisiana and uh, like her husband works in uh
Speaker 8: her husband works in like gas and like petroleum and
Speaker 8: oil companies in because of that, she's like scared by
Speaker 8: the idea of.
Speaker 4: Climate change and she's decided that she doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 8: So there was one point where I there's like a
Speaker 8: whiteboard in the house, and I just took the time to.
Speaker 4: Just like draw like a diagrea of Milankovitch.
Speaker 8: Cycles, beer, Lambertslaw, Photon's mccroscopy, like Albido and all this
Speaker 8: other stuff. And it was like, all right, so CO
Speaker 8: two has a high absorbent infrared.
Speaker 4: Right, So I'm always saying this absorbing all.
Speaker 8: That long wave radiation is going to heat up the earth.
Speaker 8: That's necessarily something that would happen if there's more CO
Speaker 8: two absorbents concentration.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, so home lader, home, lad, hold on,
Speaker 3: I gotta interrupt you. I gotta interrupt you. You're telling
Speaker 3: me you can explain to me all of this, or
Speaker 3: you're explain this to your amp. But you can't start
Speaker 3: a secular group on your campus. Get out of here,
Speaker 3: Get out of here.
Speaker 2: You can do it down. If you can break down
Speaker 2: Therma Haleaane cycles and Melankovitch cycles to an old person,
Speaker 2: you can do.
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to.
Speaker 4: Dude. Oh, this is so great, This is so great.
Speaker 1: So Homelander, I see I see in your comments that
Speaker 1: you gave to our call screeners that you're a big
Speaker 1: fan of Forest. I can't.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I can't disagree with you there, But next time you call,
Speaker 1: I want to see I'm a big fan of Dan.
Speaker 1: I want a big fan of Jimmy. We have been
Speaker 1: listen your success, your success has been born right here.
Speaker 1: It's been it's happening right now. And you're gonna get
Speaker 1: off this call and you're gonna go be who you're
Speaker 1: gonna be.
Speaker 8: Man, absolutely, Oh Forrest. You want to know which video
Speaker 8: on your channel is my favorite?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 4: It's the one.
Speaker 8: It's the one that's titled A Flood of Nonsense.
Speaker 4: I love that one. So it's like it's all of
Speaker 4: these make.
Speaker 8: Exponentially more sense than a global flood. And then you
Speaker 8: just like put your hands in there and you're like,
Speaker 8: it is just I just I love it.
Speaker 4: I love it so much.
Speaker 2: I also enjoyed that video.
Speaker 4: It's a fan doctor Victor Vendecca and all the d
Speaker 4: n D. I love like all the I'm just that
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 2: And that's that's another example with with with with you
Speaker 2: know what what you're watching right now, this this stream
Speaker 2: where we're doing this fundraiser is from Role for Initiative
Speaker 2: where we're raising money for dogs of that boards and
Speaker 2: all of that happened because I've never freaking played a
Speaker 2: game like that before, man, not a serious one. I
Speaker 2: did a little stuff when I was a kid. I
Speaker 2: never really played a serious game. But I knew what
Speaker 2: Jesse was capable of accomplishing. And we were like, fuck it,
Speaker 2: let's sink. I put damn near ten grand into that project,
Speaker 2: and it worked, and we raised way more money than
Speaker 2: I put into it. We raised way more money than
Speaker 2: any of our sponsor put into it. All of the
Speaker 2: funding that went into that combined, we have raised over
Speaker 2: double that now. And so like, do it, Just fucking
Speaker 2: do it, dude, and like like, don't be stupid, but
Speaker 2: fucking be stupid a little bit, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Get out of your own head, get out of your
Speaker 1: own way.
Speaker 2: I think, especially people like us who are like who
Speaker 2: are in sciences, who like to think a lot, we
Speaker 2: tend to overthink sometimes and sometimes you need to just
Speaker 2: fucking go for it and just let And when I
Speaker 2: say sometimes, I mean most of the time. Put yourself
Speaker 2: in weird situations when you feel when you get out
Speaker 2: for enough far enough that you just barely can't feel
Speaker 2: your feet touching the ground anymore, and you're a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's where you do the best work. So swim out
Speaker 2: a little bit farther, put yourself in a little bit
Speaker 2: of peril, and make the world a better place because
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Boom Homeland, thank you so much for your call today.
Speaker 1: We're gonna let you go. I definitely want you to
Speaker 1: call back and keep us updated on how how things go.
Speaker 1: And good luck in school. Good luck in school. This
Speaker 1: is a tough time of year for a lot of freshmen,
Speaker 1: so I hope, I hope you're doing well and you
Speaker 1: continue to to flourish.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't need luck. Study hard. Yea be fine, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: For sure. Gentlemen, thank you for playing nice with me today.
Speaker 1: This has been a wonderful, wonderful show. Thanks for letting
Speaker 1: me tag along. That's what I should say. All right,
Speaker 1: you guys are great. You guys are always great. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that I get to work with you guys,
Speaker 1: and other people.
Speaker 2: Are always great working with you as well.
Speaker 1: So folks, you know, don't forget this week. Our prompt
Speaker 1: is what fictional character would you choose to defend yourself
Speaker 1: or defend you during an apocalypse? And why? Very important?
Speaker 1: Why reply that reply? Your answer in the comments and
Speaker 1: tune in at the beginning of next week episode to
Speaker 1: hear the top three guys.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 1: After show. Dan, You're on the after show, So anybody
Speaker 1: who wants to talk to Dan, you can go uh
Speaker 1: and chat with him, chat with Richard Gilliver. He'll be there,
Speaker 1: some of our other hosts will be there. I will
Speaker 1: not be there. I have children that require me. Forest
Speaker 1: will not be there because he is a super big
Speaker 1: time celebrity.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Dan's right in the middle, Dan.
Speaker 2: Because show this is the show that's true, and that's
Speaker 2: where that's I'm not lying.
Speaker 1: I mean, Forrest has another show and Forest is hosting
Speaker 1: AXP today with the wonderful doctor Ben and I can't
Speaker 1: wait to listen along while I'm doing dishes and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, taking care of my kids while I have
Speaker 1: one of my ear piece in and nobody knows what
Speaker 1: I'm really doing. But I'll be listening to that. So
Speaker 1: everybody tune into that. And guys really enjoyed today. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I hope you have wonderful rest of
Speaker 1: your day. Thank you to everybody who supports us, who's
Speaker 1: supporting Doctors Without Borders. Thank you for your donations for us.
Speaker 1: Any updates.
Speaker 2: Me and my human just donated fifty bucks. David hacks
Speaker 2: or donated another twenty bucks. As far as I can tell.
Speaker 2: As of right now, my count is we are up
Speaker 2: to thirty thousand, five hundred and sixty nine dollars. Funny
Speaker 2: number on the end. Great stars for this show. Thank
Speaker 2: you all so much for donating whatever you could. I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and I know the people around the
Speaker 2: world who are receiving the life saving medical care that
Speaker 2: Doctors Without Borders so freely gives appreciate it way more
Speaker 2: than me. So thank you so much for being a
Speaker 2: part of the not just the atheist community, but the
Speaker 2: human community around the world and donating to such an
Speaker 2: unimpeachably awesome organization.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Hell yeah, Hell yeah, Dan, Dan, would you like
Speaker 1: to say anything as we close out this show?
Speaker 3: Listen, you can do anything you say your mind too,
Speaker 3: as long as you have a parasocial relationship with YouTubers,
Speaker 3: they tell you what you can do. I guess no,
Speaker 3: that's it, that's our motivation.
Speaker 1: Awesome, we're sending out love rings. Let's bring up these loverings.
Speaker 1: I hope they oh with that mail without fail. I'm
Speaker 1: sending love rings some doctors without borders. I'm sending love
Speaker 1: rings to everybody who's helping this initiative today. And remember everybody,
Speaker 1: if you don't believe, if you're not a believer, if
Speaker 1: you don't believe in God, this is your community and
Speaker 1: we appreciate you being here. But if you are a believer,
Speaker 1: we do not hate you. We are just not convinced.
Speaker 3: Thank you, everybody, have a great sign day.
Speaker 2: We want the truth.
Speaker 1: So watch Truth Wanted live Friday at seven pm Central.
Speaker 1: Visit tiny dot cc, slash y t tw and call
Speaker 1: into the show at five one two nine nine one
Speaker 1: nine two four two, or connect to the show online
Speaker 1: at tiny dot cc slash call tw