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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekenona Show

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and welcome back eron what's up Nanks for having me. Yeah, yeah,

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always a pleasure, always a pleasure here to do a reading.

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And I don't know, this may take this will definitely

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take two, This could take three, So people be people

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can be uh patient with us as you're a very

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busy man to get you back on and uh and

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do more of this. But this is an essay kind

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of kind of popular. A lot of people, even people

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on the left push a lot of people on the

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left push this essay. But a lot of people who

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like left the left or say the left left them,

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and then they start coming over to the center more

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or less. Oh, you have to read Repressive Tolerance by

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Herbert Marcuse. So what do you What do you know

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about him?

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Speaker 2: I know that very little other than that he was

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he was a Frankfurt school guy now big in the

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big in the sixties, leftist thinker, kind of a post Marxist.

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Didn't wasn't wasn't too into the scientific socialism like I am,

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but more of the socialist humanism and you know, just

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different focuses, but focused a lot on culture and Praxis,

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and you know, I did a little background on this

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essay and him, and it's one of those things that

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I think, I think it's perfect that we're having this

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episode because I love peering into the enemy's plan book

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and seeing what we can seeing what we can use.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So let me do a quick little let's

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do the Wikipedia. Marcus born July nineteenth, eighteen ninety eight

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German German American died July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine

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German American philosophers, social critic, and political theorist, associated at

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the Frankfort School of Critical Theory. Born in Berlin, Marcus

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studied at the Humboldt University of Berlin and then at Freiburg,

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where he received his PhD. Was a prominent figure in

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the Frankfurt based Institute for Social Research, which later became

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known as the Frankfurt School married YadA YadA. In his

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written works, he criticized capitalism, modern technology, Soviet communism, and

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popular culture, arguing that they represented new forms of social control.

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Between forty three and fifty Marcus worked in the US

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government service for the OSS Office Strategic Services, which is

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the people don't Know precursor to this CIA, where he

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criticized the ideology of the Communist Party of the Soviet

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of the Soviet Union in the book Soviet Marxism, A

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Critical Analysis, released in nineteen fifty eight. In the sixties

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and seventies, he became known as the pre eminent theorist

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of the New Left and the student movements of West Jerymany, France,

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and the United States. Some consider him the father of

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the New Left. His best known works are Aeros and

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Civilization and One Dimensional Man. His Marxist scholarship inspired many

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radical intellectuals and political activists in the nineteen sixties and seventies,

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both in the United States and internationally. So that's pretty

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much where where we're at to start this out. And yeah,

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this essay, I mean you just the title is, you know, pregnant,

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where you're just like, okay, what the hell's coming? You know,

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So all right, let me share this and we'll get

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it going. Oh both, but that's not it. That's the

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Wikipedia page there. It is, all right, stop me whenever, man,

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this is U. This starts out well. Repressive tolerance. Herbert

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Marcus nineteen sixty five and he taught at Brandeis university.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's on the street from me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not a shock at all.

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Speaker 2: No nice neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: This essay examines the idea of tolerance in our advanced

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industrial society. The conclusion reached is that the realization of

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the objective of tolerance would call for intolerance toward prevailing policies, attitudes, opinions,

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and the extension of tolerance to policies, attitudes, and opinions

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which are outlawed or suppressed.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll stop you right there. What is the

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What is the end goal of tolerance? Is tolerance of

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means or an end?

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Speaker 1: I should say, tolerance should be a means to achieving

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whatever you wish? I mean, do you I mean, do

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you want? What happens?

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Speaker 2: What happens when you and Shapiro is tolerance and means

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or an end.

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Speaker 1: When you turn on Ben Shapiro, tolerance is whatever he

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needs it to he needs it to be at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Tolerance is the end goal. It's not. It's it's not

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tolerance of what it's We just need to be tolerant.

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And he'll tell it. People like him will tell you,

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you know, if he'll he'll he'll invite a leftist on

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a show, he'll invite a communist. It's it's really flipped

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where lip you know, modern liberalism still still calls for tolerance,

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but it's conservatism that's flipping the script saying, oh no,

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we're the ones being shut down. So now they're the

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ones calling for tolerance. And he's going to get into uh,

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exactly why that's not going to work out well for them?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and tolerance always you can you use tolerance

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to get where you want to go. I mean the

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way that we've gotten to where we are from where

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where this country was founded, where you make a lot

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of people make the argument, you know, and it's true

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the founders were you know, a lot of them were

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steeped in the Enlightenment, but when it came to tolerance,

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they were they were tolerant of certain things that about

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their culture, about the culture that they created that they

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live in. They were intolerant of other cultures.

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Speaker 2: There were there were cultural bumpers put yeah, you know

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on the on the three by five index card of

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allowable opinion.

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Speaker 1: Yes and uh, and the by there being tolerance and

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tolerance has always been used against the right so that

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the left can basically just gain as much power as

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it wants. And people on the right, you know, the question,

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the question asked often, and I forget where where I

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was having this conversation recently, is is why does the

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right not want to? Why does the right never want

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to rule? Why does the right never want to Why

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why do you never have a right with an iron fist?

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You know that wants to roll with an iron fist.

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And because most of the people who would call my

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opinion is most of the people whould call themselves right

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now have been completely possessed by leftism, by leftist by

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leftist tolerance, by Enlightenment tolerance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it's uh, that's going to be a

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hard book to break.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right. In other words, today tolerance appears again as what

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it was in its origins at the beginning of the

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modern period, a partisan goal, a subversive, liberating notion and practice. Yeah,

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and you just to scroll down here to the definition

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of partisan because a lot of people the modern version,

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the modern definition of partisan is pussy shit. A partisan

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is someone who's prejudiced, prejudiced in favor of a particular cause,

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and prejudice to the point where they're they're willing to

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fight for that cause.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd also call it activist now, yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Conversely, what is proclaimed and practiced as tolerance today

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is in many of its most effective manifestations, serving the

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cause of oppression.

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Speaker 2: Wow, he's just fucking bad.

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Speaker 1: In one thousand, the author is fully aware that at present,

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no power, no authority, no government exists which would translate

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liberating tolerance into practice. But he believes that it is

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the task and duty of the intellectual to recall and

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preserve historical possibility which seem to have become utopian possibilities.

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That it is his task to break the concreteness of

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oppression in order to open the mental space in which

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the society can be recognized as what it is and does.

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Speaker 2: That's critical theory in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: Ye. So, and this is just basically like the just

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an outline. Now we get into the meat of the text.

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So tolerance is an end in itself. The elimination of

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violence and the reduction of suppression to the extent required

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for protecting man and animals from cruelty and aggression are

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preconditions for the condition of a humane society.

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Speaker 2: It's just a given, man, don't question it.

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Speaker 1: Such a society does not yet exist. Progress toward it

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is perhaps more than before, are more than before arrested

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by violence and suppression on a global scale.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm going to be pleasantly surprised at how

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much I agree with this, But not for the reasons

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he thanks.

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Speaker 1: And I would say that when he mentions utopia here,

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when I say utopia, I don't mean I have my

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own version of utopia. Utopia is getting the ideology in

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reality that you want. Like so if you have it

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in the box, ideology you get. If you can get

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it to exist in reality, you have utopia. My you know,

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my understanding is you get. My goal is to have

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the best and most orderly society I can. Considering man's

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fallen nature.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because you know, he was working for the

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precursor to the CIA in the late fifties early sixties

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basically critiquing Soviet Communism, and it was at that precise

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point in history that Soviet Communism was, you know, at

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their apex in terms of you know, their comparability and

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material conditions.

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Speaker 1: Totally, he's working for them from forty three to fifty,

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so he's even got two years of World War Two

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in there, and then and then the after and then

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the aftermath, which is I mean, you want to talk

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about one of the most interesting times in history, the

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Soviet Union between nineteen forty five and nineteen fifty, not

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only considering the the absolute horror that they imposed upon Germany,

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but also the purging of a certain group from the

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government that brought about the rise of the neo conservatives

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in this country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the glass ceiling for the j words. Yeah, strictly imposed.

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Speaker 1: All right, as deterrence against nuclear war, as police action

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against subversion, as technical aid in the fight against imperialism

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and communism, as methods of pacification in neo colonial massacres,

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violence and suppression are are promulgated, practiced, and defended by

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democratic and authoritarian governments alike, and the people subjected to

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these governments are educated to sustain such practices as necessary

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for the preservation of the status quoz. He definitely was

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educated in Germany. I mean, just look at that sentence.

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It's such a German sentence. Structure, well, the structure of it.

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Speaker 2: But you wouldn't have to go you wouldn't have to

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have too much of an imagination to replace all of

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the things that he mentioned with current day things that

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that we would mention instead of uh, wait, where is it?

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It's nuclear war police action against the version technically in

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the Yeah, I mean you could mention, you know, entire

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groups of black kids beating on white kids. You could

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mention surgical removal of gen genitalia. You know, take your pick,

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go on your Twitter timeline and you can just take

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those out and fill in with whatever you want. And

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once again we can we can agree with everything he's saying.

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Speaker 3: Mhm.

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Speaker 1: Tolerance is extended to policies, conditions, and modes of behavior

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which should not be tolerated because they are impeding, if

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not destroying, the chances of creating an existence without fear

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and misery.

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Speaker 2: So he's talking about culture.

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Speaker 1: I know that.

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Speaker 2: Most schools of socialism don't like to talk about culture

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because it's stock grounded in materialism. It's transcendent. But he's

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talking about culture.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Of this sort of tolerance strengthens the tyranny of the

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majority against which authentic liberals protested authentic liberals. The political

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locus of tolerance has changed. While it is more or

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less quietly and constitutionally withdrawn from the opposition, it has

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made compulsory behavior with respect to established policies, Tolerance has

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turned from an active into a passive state, from practice

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to nonpractice. Lais fair the constituted authorities. It is the

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people who tolerate the government, which in turn tolerates opposition

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within the framework determined by the constituted authorities. Is that's

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what Chompsky invoking Chompsky would talk about right about that

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six seven years later. Also, he's just basically he's he's

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making arguments that I make all the time. The assebity

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had posted to the way to save this country is

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it was founded on the principles of liberty. We need

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to go back to the way. The only way it's

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gonna we're going to get it back is to go

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back to the principles of liberty. And I just like

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one sentence, maybe those principles are how we got here.

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Speaker 2: Is that an opposition within the framework determined by the

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cost student authorities. We need to we need to roll

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back the state.

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Speaker 1: Let's go tolerance toward that which is radically evil now

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appears as good because it serves the cohesion of the

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whole on the road to affluence and more affluence. The

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toleration of the systematic more moronization of children and adults

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alike by publicity and propaganda, the release of destructiveness and

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aggressive driving, the recruitment for the train and training of

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special forces, the impotent and benevolent tolerance toward outright deception

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in merchandising, waste, and planned obsolescence are not distortions and aberrations.

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They are the essence of a system which fosters tolerance

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as a means for perpetuating the struggle for existence and

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suppressing the alternatives. Do you do you disagree with any

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of that? Peter?

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Speaker 2: Are we are we frank for school? Now?

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Speaker 1: Disagree with?

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Speaker 2: Are we frank for school? Socialists?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: Ship? Oh? Man? Isn't it amazing that once you know,

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if you're one of those people who's on social media

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the time, and you're like, oh, this is what I

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You know, I learned about communism from a meme, Or

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I learned about socialism from a meme. I learned about

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Marxism from a meme. Once you start reading it, you know,

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I learned about critical theory from a meme. Once you

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start reading it, you're like, it's just like reading Marx.

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Oh he's got it figured out. It's just his solution

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is just shit, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yep, the prescription is exactly on point.

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Speaker 1: The authorities in education, morals, and psychology are vociferous against

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the increase in juvenile delinquency. They are less vociferous against

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the proud presentation in word and deed and pictures of

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ever more powerful missiles, rockets, bombs, the mature delinquency of

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a whole civilization. Hmm, that's an interesting.

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Speaker 2: That that's smacks of bumple Ted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there, Yeah, it really explains why Ted hates

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the left so much. According to a dialectical proposition, it

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is the whole which determines the truth, not in the

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sense that the whole is prior or superior to its parts,

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but in the sense that its structure and function determine

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every particular condition and relation. Thus, within a repressive society,

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even progressive movements threaten to turn into their opposite to

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the degree to which they accept the rules of the game.

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There's an Uncle Ted for you right there.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: To take a most controversial case, the exercise of political

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rights such as voting, letter writing to the press, to senators, etc.

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Protest demonstrations with a priori renunciation of counter violence in

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a society of total administration serves to strengthen this administration

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by testifying to the existence of democratic liberties which in

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reality have changed their content and lost their effectiveness. In

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such a case, freedom of opinion, of assembly of speech.

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Speaker 2: That's Sam France, Sam Francis, Yeah, managerial revolution.

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Speaker 1: In in such in such a case, are you thinking

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Burnham or Francis? But as Francis wrote what I think

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is the greatest book on Burnham. He wrote this little

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book where he just does a commentary on every Burnham book.

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It's one of my favorite books. Is it's just because

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you get you know, Francis is so much closer to us,

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and he was just such a great man. Mean, he

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wrote for the USA today to a certain point, that's amazing.

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In such a case, freedom of opinion, of assembly of

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speech becomes an instrument for absolving servitude. And yet, and

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I was just recording with Semi Agogue and we're talking

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about the first paragraph of the Engineering of Consent by

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Bernez where he talks about how freedom, freedom of speech

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within a society is just the greatest tool for being

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able to engineer that society. Yeah, all right, okay, And

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yet and only here the dialectical proposition shows its full intent.

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The existence and practice of these liberties remain a precondition

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for the restoration of their original oppositional function, provided that

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the effort to transcend their often self imposed limitations is

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intense A five.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I need to I need to chew on that. Sorry,

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i'mah yeah, I'm rolling that around a little bit.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: I'll if he's talking about the unit, if he's specifically

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talking about the United States, he may just be talking

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about how you you start by a revolution and then

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basically you maybe your restoration of the original oppositional function.

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Provided that the effort to transcend their limitations is intensified,

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it reverts back to it. All right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So you have these liberties, you're bumping up against opposition,

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you know, the the proverbial bumpers. And the more you

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bump up against the limitations imposed, the more intense the

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bumping gets. I get it.

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Speaker 1: Generally, the function and value of tolerance depend on the

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quality prevalent in the society in which tolerance is practiced.

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Tolerance itself stands subject to overriding criteria, Its range, and

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its limits cannot be defined in terms of the respective society.

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In other words, tolerance is an end in itself only

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when it is truly universal, practiced by the rulers as

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well as by the rule, by the lords as well

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as by the peasants, by the sheriffs as well as

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by their victims.

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Speaker 2: Once again, that's called culture. It's not tolerance. That's culture,

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fucking libs.

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Speaker 1: And such universal tolerance as possible only when no real

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or alleged enemy requires in the national interest the education

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and training of people in military violence and destruction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, acab.

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Speaker 1: As long as these conditions do not prevail, the conditions

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of tolerance are loaded. They are determined and defined by

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the institutionalized inequality, which is certainly compatible with constitutional equality,

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i e. By the class structure of society. In such

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a society, tolerance is de facto limited on the dual

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ground of legalized violence or suppression police, armed forces, guards

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of all sorts, and of the privileged position held by

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the predominant interests and their connections.

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Speaker 2: I see no issue whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Once again, these background limitations of tolerance are normally prior

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to the explicit and judicial limitationations as defined by the courts, customs, governments,

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et cetera. For example, quote unquote clear and present danger,

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threat to national security. Heresy, Ye can't yell nigger in

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a movie theater? Well, now I know, now I know

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which little preview clip is not going to be on

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YouTube within the framework such.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, don't say that.

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Speaker 1: Within the framework of such, they wouldn't be able to

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hear you anyway. Damn it. Oh, within the framework of

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of such a social structure, tolerance can be safe. Tolerance

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can be safely practiced and proclaimed. It is of two kinds.

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The passive toleration of entrench and established attitudes and ideas,

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even if they're damaging effect on man and nature is evident.

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And the active official tolerance granted to the right as

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well as to the left, to movements of aggression as

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well as to movements of peace, to the party of

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hate as well as to that of humanity.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's right. That's now we're getting into it, this

359
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,000
whole idea that you know, those those cultural bumpers that

360
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I was talking about. You need a bumper on the right,

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but you need to remove the bumper on the left.

362
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So that way the direction, as you know, as you

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and I and everybody else have said, the direction can

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only go one way. That's that's what he's calling for.

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Speaker 1: I call this nonpartisan tolerance abstract or pure inasmuch as

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it refrains from taking sides, but in doing so it

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actually protects the already established machinery of the discrimination.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Silence is violence.

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Speaker 1: The tolerance, which enlarged the range and content of freedom

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was always partisan, intolerant towards the protagonists of the repressive

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status quo. The issue was only the degree and extent

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of intolerance. In the firmly established liberal society of England

373
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and the United States, freedom of speech and assembly was

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granted even to the radical enemies of society, provided they

375
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did not make the transition from word to deed, from

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speech to action. Remember the I forget who was it was?

377
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:49,640
It was, Chris Cuomo said on CNN during the summers

378
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,799
of twenty twenty. Where does it say in law that

379
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,519
the protesters can't get violent? As it's right here in

380
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the constitution, It's like right right there.

381
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably a lot of places in the criminal

382
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:10,240
code I imagine too sure, But yeah, I know that's

383
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,640
you know, tolerance of repressive structures is in itself intolerant. Therefore,

384
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,559
the direction can only move left because left means destroying

385
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:27,359
oppressive power structures, and the right means keeping them or

386
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,039
building them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish.

388
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Speaker 1: All right. Relying on the effective background limitations imposed by

389
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,440
its class structure, the society seemed to practice general tolerance.

390
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,720
But liberalists theory had already placed an important condition on tolerance.

391
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,400
It was to apply only to human beings in the

392
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,000
maturity of their faculties. John Stuart millt Yeah, where is

393
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:02,920
this going that again? Then? But liberalist theory has already

394
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,640
placed an important condition on tolerance. It was to apply

395
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:10,400
only to human beings in the maturity of their faculties.

396
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to be frank for

397
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,640
school anymore, pete.

398
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: John Stuart Mill does not only speak of children and minors.

399
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,119
He elaborates liberty as a principle has no application to

400
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,240
any state of things anterior to the time when mankind

401
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:35,160
have become capable of being improved by free and equal discussion.

402
00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,519
Anterior to that time, men may still be barbarians, and

403
00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:47,720
despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians,

404
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,279
provided the end of the end be their improvement, and

405
00:28:52,319 --> 00:29:00,319
the means justified by actually affecting that end. We're going

406
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,359
to make men better.

407
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you you have to have whatever whatever

408
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:11,480
you need to do to benefit the condition of mankind.

409
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000
If that means a dictatorship, if that means a police state,

410
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:22,759
if that means you know, uh, a military industrial complex

411
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,759
with a health a health care industrial complex with it.

412
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:29,400
If that is what you need to get to this

413
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,680
betterment of mankind, then it is what it is. That's

414
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,079
That's not what markc Use is saying, but that's what

415
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:36,799
Mills said.

416
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,839
Speaker 1: Mills often quoted words have a less familiar implication, on

417
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,279
which their meaning depends the internal connection between liberty and truth.

418
00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:51,839
There's a sense in which truth is the end of liberty,

419
00:29:52,200 --> 00:30:03,680
and liberty must be defined and confined by truth. Yeah. Now,

420
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:08,400
in what sense can liberty be for the sake of truth?

421
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:14,839
Liberty is self determination autonomy That is almost a tautology,

422
00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:18,920
but a tautology which results from a whole series of

423
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,640
synthetic judgments.

424
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Speaker 2: Wow, I like where this is going.

425
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:29,359
Speaker 1: It stipulates the ability to determine one's own life, to

426
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,960
be able to determine what to do and what not

427
00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:36,359
to do, what to suffer and whatnot. But the subject

428
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,200
of this autonomy is never the contingent private individual as

429
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,480
that which he actually is or happens to be. It

430
00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:48,839
is rather the individual as a human being who is

431
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,000
capable of being free with the others.

432
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:58,359
Speaker 2: So this is getting into just Frankfurt School socialism's whole

433
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:02,680
end goal is the pursuit of self actualization. It's the

434
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:07,720
removal of any impediment in that pursuit. So whether that

435
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:12,119
be material or cultural, which is what the Frankfurt School

436
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:17,480
focuses on, any any type of impediment towards self actualization.

437
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:20,839
How this, how this connects back to repressive toll. This

438
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,839
idea of repressive tolerance is that you need you need

439
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:30,559
some type of practice, and he's going to get into

440
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,680
practice later, but some type of practice to remove those impediments,

441
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:41,079
meaning people like us, out of your way towards self actualization.

442
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,279
Speaker 1: And the problem of making possible such a harmony between

443
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:50,519
every individual liberty and the other is not that of

444
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:54,920
finding a compromise between competitors, or between freedom and law,

445
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:59,519
between general and individual interest, common and private welfare in

446
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:03,680
an estatelish society, but of creating the society in which

447
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,920
man is no longer enslaved by institutions which vitiate, which vitiate, vitiate?

448
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,519
I swear I know that word self determination from the beginning.

449
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,599
Let's go down and let me see that word apreciate. Yeah,

450
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,720
to make ineffective. Okay, Yeah, So basically lazada, But of

451
00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:26,880
creating the society in which man is no longer enslaved

452
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,640
by institutions which make ineffective self determination from the beginning.

453
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,319
In other words, freedom is still to be created, even

454
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:41,839
for the freest of the existing societies. And the direction

455
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,559
in which it must be sought, and the institutional and

456
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:48,440
cultural changes which may help to attain the goal, are

457
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,119
at least in development, in developed civilization, comprehensible. That is

458
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,440
to say, they can be identified and projected on the

459
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,759
basis of experience by human reason.

460
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:05,079
Speaker 2: You can point to an oppressive structure and say that

461
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,440
is inhibiting my pursuit of self actualization.

462
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: It opens It just throws open the doors to basically

463
00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:19,279
any anything being repressive, anything be anything, anything I can

464
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:24,640
think of is stopping my self. Realism is permanent. Yes, yes,

465
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,599
In the interplay of theory and practice, true and false

466
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,480
solutions become distinguishable, never with the evidence of necessity, never

467
00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:38,319
as the positive only with a certainty of a reasoned

468
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,119
and reasonable chance, and with the persuasive force of the negative.

469
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,480
For the true positive is the society of the future,

470
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:55,200
and therefore beyond definition and determination, while the existing positive

471
00:33:55,279 --> 00:34:00,559
is that which must be surmounted, open ended, progressive is open.

472
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,119
There is no there is no goal. We have this goal.

473
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,199
It's completely unachievable, but we are going to strive to

474
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,239
do it. And it doesn't matter how many tangents or

475
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,400
rabbit drills it goes up.

476
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: I mean, we see this playing out every single day.

477
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,440
Once they get one thing they want, then it's onto

478
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,280
the next.

479
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: But the experience and understanding of the existence of the

480
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,159
existence society may well be capable of identifying what is

481
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,239
not conducive to a free and rational society, which impedes

482
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,679
and distorts the possibilities of its creation. Freedom is liberation

483
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:41,480
a specific historical process in theory and practice, and as

484
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:46,159
such it has its right and wrong, its truth and falsehood.

485
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,079
Speaker 2: So one thing that the Frankfurt School kind of improved

486
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:55,239
upon Orthodox Marxism is that it's a lot less rigid

487
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,239
in defining the historical process and these stages of history

488
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,159
they're they're a lot more vague about it, and you

489
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:07,599
can see this, I mean those that the last paragraph

490
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:10,159
that you just read is talking about this prop this

491
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,239
arduous march towards true freedom. It really has no beginning

492
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:21,639
and endpoint. It's just a constant cycle. And I've listened

493
00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:23,559
to a couple of podcasters talking about this.

494
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: But uh, like.

495
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,559
Speaker 2: What the actual end goal is is? It depends on

496
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,119
depends on who you talk to. I mean, we we

497
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:33,239
did a reading of uncal Ted and the the end

498
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,280
goal is you know, you're you're a meat you're transhumanist

499
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,679
meatbag battery.

500
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. The uncertainty of chance in this distinction does not

501
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:51,679
cancel the historical objectivity, but it necessitates freedom of thought

502
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,559
and expression as preconditions of finding the way to freedom.

503
00:35:56,119 --> 00:36:02,800
It necessitates tolerance. How However, the tolerance cannot be indiscriminate

504
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,920
and equal with respect to the contents of expression, neither

505
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,280
in word nor Indeed, it cannot protect false words and

506
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,840
wrong deeds which demonstrate that they contradict and counteract the

507
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,679
possibilities of liberation.

508
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,039
Speaker 2: That's right, that's the terms of service you signed a party.

509
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: Such indiscriminate tolerance is justified in harmless debates, in conversation

510
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:35,599
and academic discussion. It is indispensable in the scientific enterprise,

511
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,199
in private religion, but society cannot be indiscriminate where the

512
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,679
pacification of existence, where the freedom and happiness themselves are

513
00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:50,320
at stake. Here, certain things cannot be said, Certain ideas

514
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,960
cannot be expressed, Certain policies cannot be proposed, Certain behavior

515
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:58,679
cannot be permitted without making tolerance an instrument for the

516
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:08,440
continuation of servitude. Man, I totally agree, Man, this, I mean,

517
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:11,400
you know, and then I've been really it's really hard

518
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,159
to like for me to sit down and read a

519
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:16,000
thousand page book, but I've really been pouring over the

520
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:22,880
authoritarian personality by Adorno and oh this is this is all.

521
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:34,159
It's just all right. The danger of destructive tolerance, of

522
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,239
benevolent neutrality towards art has been recognized. The market, which

523
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,800
absorbs equally well, equally well, although with often quite sudden

524
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:49,280
fluctuations art, anti art and non art, all possible conflicting

525
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:56,119
styles schools forms, provides a complacent receptacle, a friendly abyss

526
00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:59,559
in which the radical impact of art, the protest of

527
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,480
art against the establishment reality, is swallowed up.

528
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. If everything's if everything is permitted, then nothing can

529
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:09,519
be radical.

530
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:17,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, However, censorship of art and literature is regressive under

531
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:22,199
all circumstances. The authentic of war? Is it of war?

532
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:27,280
Or how the hell do you pronounce that? I should

533
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,360
have left that up before I read and just jump

534
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,840
over and read let Me Go twenty one? A work

535
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,840
of art, music, or literature. It's a French word, of course,

536
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:43,280
where is it? There are cases where an authentic piece

537
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,159
of art carries a regressive political message. Dostoyevsky is a

538
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,079
case in point. But then the message is canceled by

539
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:56,159
the work of art itself. The regressive political content is

540
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,000
absorbed in the artistic work, in the work as literature.

541
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:10,119
Is that saying that is he saying in this paragraph

542
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:14,880
that once art that art can be, can be completely

543
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:21,079
you know, revolutionary, but as soon as it's accepted, you know,

544
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:25,079
like you know how you had artists in the sixties

545
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:28,280
who are just doing just absolute garbage and it was like, oh,

546
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:32,760
you know, like like Andy Warhol was a complete degenerate, yeah,

547
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,960
and then all of a sudden, all these rich people

548
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,480
discovered him, and now it's not so edgy anymore. Is

549
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:42,039
that is is that the message is being relayed? Here

550
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,840
is how it just something can be revolutionary, but then

551
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,239
it just becomes what it is, a piece of art,

552
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,400
a piece of literature.

553
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess in a in a truly tolerant society

554
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,559
where anything goes, then you know, even even if you

555
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:03,320
do put up you know, take take four Chan for like,

556
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:11,199
four Chan would be Marcus's Dostoyevski. If everything's permitted on

557
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,119
four Chan, then you, as a four chan consumer, like,

558
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,280
aren't going to be inspired by really anything on it.

559
00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, m all right, here we go. Tolerance

560
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:30,360
of free speech is the way of improvement, of progress

561
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,960
and liberation, not because there is no objective truth and

562
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:39,519
improvement must necessarily be a compromise between a variety of opinions,

563
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,039
but because there is an objective truth which can be

564
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:48,400
discovered ascertained only in learning and comprehending that which, that

565
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,800
which is, and that which can and ought to be

566
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,239
done for the sake of improving the lot of mankind.

567
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:04,039
Speaker 2: It's just it's funny, how it's I wish we were

568
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:11,280
we had as much certain certainty and just like fanatic

569
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:17,400
belief in what our outlook on what improving mankind looks like.

570
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:22,679
Speaker 1: That thoughts like that were made illegal in the late

571
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:29,239
nineteen forties. Yeah, yeah, made very criminal. Yes, the common

572
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,119
and historical ought is not immediately evident at hand. It

573
00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:38,400
has to be uncovered by cutting, through splitting, breaking asunder

574
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,960
the given material, separating right and wrong, good and bad,

575
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:50,119
correct and incorrect. The subject whose improvement depends on a

576
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:55,079
progressive historical practice is each man as man. And this

577
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,320
universality is reflected in that of the discussion, which a

578
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,800
priori does not exclude any group or individual.

579
00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:11,159
Speaker 2: So let me see if I can parse this out.

580
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:20,800
This is painful. There is an objective way to arrive

581
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,360
at truth, and it's through the It's through the process

582
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,320
of critical analysis. Is that basically what he's saying. Sure,

583
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,400
we imagine, imagine that that just happens to be the

584
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,440
thing that he went, that he studied for his entire life.

585
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: But even the all inclusive character of liberalist tolerance was,

586
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,880
at least in theory, based on the proposition that men were

587
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:52,360
potential individuals who could learn to hear and see and

588
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,960
feel by themselves, to develop their own thoughts, to grasp

589
00:42:56,119 --> 00:43:00,000
their own true interests and rights and capabilities. Also again

590
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,440
established authority and opinion.

591
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what if they agree with it. What then,

592
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,760
what if they like established authority an opinion? Well, or

593
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,800
what if what if the critical theorists become the established

594
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:18,800
authority and opinion.

595
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: This was the rationale of free speech and assembly. Universal

596
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,119
toleration became questionable. Becomes questionable when it's rationale no longer

597
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:38,119
prevails when tolerance is administered to manipulated and doctrinated individuals

598
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,800
who parrot as their own the opinions of their masters,

599
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:50,639
for whom he heteronomy has become autonomy. The telos of

600
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:59,440
tolerance is truth. It is clear from the historical record

601
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,960
that the author nic spokesman of tolerance had more and

602
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:07,000
other truth in mind than that of propositional logic and

603
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:18,599
academic theory. Former libertarians chuckle John Stuart Mills speaks of

604
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:21,960
the truth which is persecuted in history, and which does

605
00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:25,960
not triumph over persecution by virtue of its inherent power,

606
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,960
which in fact has no inherent power against the dungeon

607
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:30,880
and the steak.

608
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I quoted me, and they're still hitting me.

609
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: And he enumerates the truths which were cruelly and successfully

610
00:44:46,039 --> 00:44:49,239
liquidated in the dungeons, and at the stake that of

611
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:56,920
Arnold of Brescia, of fraud, Dulcino, of Sabon, of the

612
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:02,119
alb Albigensians, valdenz Ians, Lollards, and Hussites.

613
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,519
Speaker 2: So a bunch of like fringe h Christian sex.

614
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:13,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's what's funny. Is Yachi in imperium

615
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:19,639
mentioned soeign many times? Tolerance is first and foremost for

616
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:25,519
the sake of the heretics. The historical roads towards humanitas

617
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,320
appears as heresy, target of persecution by the powers that be.

618
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:35,920
Heresy by itself, however, is no token of truth. Well

619
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:36,920
that that makes sense.

620
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

621
00:45:40,119 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: The criterion of progress in freedom, according to which Mill

622
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,239
judges these movements is the Reformation. The evaluation is ex post,

623
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:57,000
and his list includes opposites. Nourala two would have been

624
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,559
would have burned the fraud Dulcino. Even the ex post

625
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:06,559
evaluation is contestable as to its truth. History corrects the

626
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:14,000
judgment too late. The correction. The correction does not help

627
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:18,199
the victims and does not absolve their executioners. However, the

628
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,679
lesson is clear. Intolerance has delayed progress and has prolonged

629
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,840
the slaughter and torture of innocence for hundreds of years.

630
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,239
Does this does this clinch the case for indiscriminate pure tolerance.

631
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,800
Are there historical conditions in which such toleration impedes liberation

632
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,960
and multitudes and multiplies the victims who are sacrificed to

633
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,239
the status quo. Can the indiscriminate guarantee of political rights

634
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,639
and liberties be repressive? Can such tolerance serve to contain

635
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,800
qualitative social change?

636
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:59,199
Speaker 2: Why didn't he just start off with that? We got

637
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,039
to skip that into higher page. It just read read

638
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:03,960
up to those questions you just ask.

639
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: He has to do a little religion bashing. They always do.

640
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,440
I shall discuss this question only with reference to political movements, attitudes,

641
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,559
schools of thought, philosophies which are political in the wildest sense,

642
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,519
affecting the whole the society as a whole, demonstrably transcending

643
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:28,880
the sphere of privacy. Moreover, I propose a shift in

644
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,599
the focus of the discussion. It will be concerned not

645
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:38,039
only and not primarily with tolerance towards radical extremes, minorities, subversives, etc.

646
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,239
But rather with tolerance towards majorities, toward official and public opinion,

647
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:49,239
toward the established protectors of freedom. In this case, the

648
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,880
discussion can have as a frame of reference only a

649
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,719
democratic society in which the people as individuals and as

650
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,639
members of political and other organizations participate in the making, sustaining,

651
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:06,000
and changing policies. In an authoritarian system that people do

652
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:09,840
not tolerate, they suffer established policies.

653
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,599
Speaker 2: All right, Well, that's convenient.

654
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, under yeah, the road you know, I mean, oh,

655
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,920
that road is thorny. I think I'll take this one

656
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:34,079
over here. Under a system of constitutionally guaranteed and generally

657
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:38,159
and without too many and too glaring exceptions, practice, civil

658
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,119
rights and liberties, opposition and dissent are tolerated unless they

659
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:47,320
issue in violence and or in exhortation to an organization

660
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,719
of violent subversion.

661
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: I'm with them.

662
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,039
Speaker 1: The underlying assumption is that the established society is free,

663
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,280
and that any improvement, even a change in the social

664
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,239
structure and social values, would come about in the normal

665
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,599
course of events, prepared to find and tested in free

666
00:49:04,639 --> 00:49:09,039
and equal discussion on the open marketplace of ideas and goods.

667
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:14,159
Speaker 2: That's how it works. Which I'm happy he's like saying

668
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:15,119
that that's stupid.

669
00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

670
00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:21,559
Speaker 1: Now, In recalling John John Stuart Mill's passage, I drew

671
00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:25,360
attention to the premise hidden in this assumption. Free and

672
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:31,079
equal discussion can fulfill the function attributed to it only

673
00:49:31,159 --> 00:49:35,519
if it is rational expression and development of independent thinking,

674
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:42,800
free from induc indoctrination, manipulation, extraneous authority. The notion of

675
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,679
pluralism and countervailing powers is no substitute for this requirement.

676
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,000
One might, in theory, construct a state in which a

677
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:56,119
multitude of different pressures, interests, and authorities balance each other

678
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,199
out and result in a truly general and rational interest.

679
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:03,079
Speaker 2: That's the foundation myth.

680
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:08,639
Speaker 1: However, such a construct badly fits a society in which

681
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:13,039
powers are and remain unequal, and even increase their unequal

682
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,599
weight when they run their own course.

683
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,039
Speaker 2: So sometimes a free exchange of ideas doesn't go in

684
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:26,639
the direction you wanted to. That could be bad.

685
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,039
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think he understands elite theory, and sometimes I'm

686
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:33,360
just like, what the hell is he? Where's he going

687
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,239
with this? Yeah?

688
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,679
Speaker 2: I mean, we all see what happens when the free

689
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:43,440
and open exchange of information, like the actual free and

690
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,800
open exchange of information happens. The characteristics of whatever platform

691
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:54,639
that's happening on inevitably comes far right, even yep, yep,

692
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,840
without a doubt then you to start tamping down on

693
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,840
all these fucking cell phone videos, cell phone videos and

694
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,920
pop us subways.

695
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: And I mean, am I the only one who you

696
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,639
know realizes that, like Twitter has become world star hip

697
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:20,199
hop world star?

698
00:51:21,639 --> 00:51:25,199
Speaker 2: Yeah? I would like to think that Elon has something

699
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:27,960
to do with that, or it could just be that

700
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:32,960
he got rid of whatever the whatever, the algorithm, what

701
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,559
whatever the algorithmic guard against that he just got rid of.

702
00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:40,679
And this is you know, organic.

703
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: Whatever it is. I'm liking it, well, not liking some

704
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,920
of those videos I can't watch, but at least the

705
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:55,920
exposure is there. Then then the if it fits, it

706
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,280
fits even worse with a variety of pressures, unifies and

707
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:06,320
coagulates into an overwhelming whole, integrating the particular countervailing powers

708
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,280
by virtue of an increased standard of living and an

709
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,320
increasing concentration of power.

710
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is where we're at right now, Well maybe

711
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,719
not right now, where the material conditions right now are

712
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:27,880
still pretty good. Everybody more than likely has food, water,

713
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,159
easy access to food, water, clothing, shelter, that type of thing.

714
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,480
And then you know, if you really start thinking about

715
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:38,960
what our luxuries we have access to, those two for

716
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:43,119
the most part. And I mean this goes back to

717
00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:50,280
Ted kay. As that becomes cheaper and proliferated more, it's

718
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,440
really easy to ignore the structural problems that are taking

719
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,159
away your i mean your humanity in the background.

720
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, as you participate them.

721
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:02,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

722
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I've said this a bunch of times. But

723
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,280
the more people I talked to who are leaving cities

724
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:14,960
and going and you know, even buying a half an

725
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,800
acre or an acre in the country and you know, saying, hey,

726
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,440
I'm gonna grow some of my own food and maybe

727
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,920
get a couple of chickens. These are people who they

728
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,360
may not even know what Uncle Ted taught, but they're

729
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,679
going backwards in order to go forwards.

730
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:40,599
Speaker 2: It's it's uh, it makes me think of Julius Evola.

731
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,599
It's some something is transcendent.

732
00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, what it was Evola thing, I've stolen it. My

733
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,159
my values are that which were be normal before seventeen

734
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:54,719
eighty nine.

735
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: Then the laborer whose real interest conflicts with that of management,

737
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,039
the common consumer whose real interests conflict with that of

738
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:10,760
the producer, the intellectual whose vocation conflicts with that of

739
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,480
his employer, find themselves submitted to a system against which

740
00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:19,679
they are powerless and appear unreasonable. That's a great sentence,

741
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:25,599
oh bit, such a great sentence. Okay, the ideas of

742
00:54:25,679 --> 00:54:30,880
the available alternatives evaporates into an utterly utopian dimension in

743
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,719
which it is at home for a free for a

744
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:38,760
free society is indeed unrealistically and undefinably different from the

745
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:45,880
existing ones. Under these circumstances, whatever improvement may occur in

746
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,639
the normal course of events and without subversion, is likely

747
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,320
to be improvement in the direction determined by the particular

748
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,280
interests which control the whole.

749
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, mark us who are.

750
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: Ah By the same token, those minorities which strive for

751
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,400
a change of the whole itself, will, under optimal conditions

752
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,599
which rarely prevail, be left free to deliberate and discuss,

753
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:18,519
to speak, into assemble, and will be left harmless and

754
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:22,519
helpless in the face of the overwhelming majority which militates

755
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:25,840
against qualitative social change.

756
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:29,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're allowed to talk about whatever you want. It's

757
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,719
just it's not going to happen.

758
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,159
Speaker 1: He Let me, let me see something here, looking at

759
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:45,119
early early years of Marcus. Okay, I'll leave that alone.

760
00:55:45,639 --> 00:55:46,440
We'll talk about that.

761
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't find anything in any early life check.

762
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: Oh it's it's right there. Oh yeah, second sent second

763
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:07,920
sent okay, control by the same token those manner did

764
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,280
I already say that sentence?

765
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,639
Speaker 2: By the same token those minorities which strive for a change.

766
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,559
Speaker 1: I don't think I gonna, I'll say it, I'll go No, No,

767
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:23,079
I haven't said it. Okay, by the same token, those

768
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:26,320
minorities which strive for a change of the whole itself

769
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,519
will under optimal conditions which were oh no, I did

770
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:30,079
say that one.

771
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

772
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 1: This majority is firmly grounded in the increasing satisfaction of

773
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:41,079
needs and technological and mental coordination, which testify to the

774
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:46,239
general helplessness of radical groups in a well functioning social system.

775
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 2: Huh.

776
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: Within the affluent democracy, the affluent discussion prevails, and within

777
00:56:57,519 --> 00:57:01,239
the established framework it is tole are. To a large extent,

778
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,079
all points of view can be heard, the communist and

779
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:07,920
the fascist, the left and the right, the right and

780
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,880
the negro, the crusaders for armament and for disarmament, moreover,

781
00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:17,679
and endlessly dragging debates over the media. The stupid opinion

782
00:57:18,159 --> 00:57:21,320
is treated with the same respect as the intelligent one.

783
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,079
The misinformed may talk as long as the informed, and

784
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:29,960
propaganda rides along with education, truth and falsehood.

785
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,559
Speaker 2: So at the apex of American civilization, you can kind

786
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:39,360
of define that by you know, all those I forget

787
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,639
what it's called, but the roundtable show where they have

788
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,880
somebody from the right, somebody from the left, the fascist,

789
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,320
the communist, and they're all just having a calm conversation.

790
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:53,840
That is the apex in material condition of America. Now

791
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,840
what do you have? This pure talk? Well, good, but

792
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,480
whether it's good or not, it's just an indication as

793
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,280
to how well your civilization is doing.

794
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: This pure toleration of sense and nonsense is justified by

795
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:16,119
the democratic argument that nobody, neither group nor individual is

796
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:19,119
in possession of the truth and capable of defining what

797
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:24,320
is right and wrong, good and bad. Therefore, all contesting

798
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,320
opinions must be submitted to the people for its deliberation

799
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:32,400
and choice. But I have already suggested that the democratic

800
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,639
argument implies a necessary condition, namely that the people must

801
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:41,960
be must be capable of deliberating and choosing on the

802
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,320
basis of knowledge, that they must have access to authentic information,

803
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,239
and that on this basis their evaluation must be the

804
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:56,239
result of autonomous thought. So deliberating and choosing on the

805
00:58:56,239 --> 00:58:58,639
basis of knowledge. They basically said, first of all, they

806
00:58:58,679 --> 00:59:00,000
have to be smart and not be a fucking one.

807
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:04,559
Speaker 2: Are on, we do this all the time.

808
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:09,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then stepp Bee comes in and just frigging

809
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:16,880
makes us all feel like idiots. They must have access

810
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:21,719
to authentic information, doesn't mention what that authentic information is, uh,

811
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,239
And that on their basis, their evaluation must be the

812
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:28,239
result of autonomous thought. So this is somebody who's lived

813
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:32,199
it has never been taught how to think what to think?

814
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,920
I mean, we're in friggin fantasy land here.

815
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:41,719
Speaker 2: It's the source. I saw it in a dream.

816
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: It was a fever dream though all right. In the

817
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:51,000
contemporary period, the democratic argument for abstract tolerance tends to

818
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,480
be invalidated by the invalidation of the democratic process itself.

819
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,480
The liberating force of democracy was the change, was the

820
01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:04,519
chance it gave to effective dissent on the individual as

821
01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:08,559
well as its social scale. Its openness to qualitatively different

822
01:00:09,039 --> 01:00:13,719
forms of government, of culture, education, work of the human

823
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:19,599
existence in general, The toleration of free discussion and the

824
01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:24,239
equal right of opposites. Was to define and clarify the

825
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:30,480
different forms of descent, their direction, content prospect. But with

826
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:34,679
the concentration of economic and political power and the integration

827
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,000
of opposites in a society which uses technology as an

828
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:42,920
instrument of domination, effective descent is blocked where it could

829
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:49,480
freely emerge in the formation of opinion, in information and communication,

830
01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:51,679
in speech and assembly.

831
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,239
Speaker 2: Yep, Uncle Ted and Mark hus one of the.

832
01:00:55,159 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 4: Same when he says here, well, the integration of opposites

833
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:06,639
in a society, what's he talking about?

834
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,159
Speaker 2: Oh, just the ability of the fascists and the communists

835
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:17,320
to sit down and have a conversation mm hm, which

836
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,239
I'm guessing at the time he was writing. I mean,

837
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:24,880
what the hell was that show with? Was Buchanan on it?

838
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: Oh? The McLachlan group, Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah.

839
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,119
Speaker 2: I mean that was probably the apex of society when

840
01:01:33,159 --> 01:01:33,679
that was on.

841
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: I used to watch it all the time. I watched

842
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,960
it up until like two thousand and nine, two thousand

843
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,480
and ten. Yeah, I was obsessed with it. I couldn't

844
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:42,159
couldn't have that. Yeah, no, at least not in any

845
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:45,440
man I think. Yeah, I think it does actually exist now.

846
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,239
I don't think Buchanan's on it. I think there's a

847
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,320
new version of it. But I mean, I just I

848
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,559
can't wake up at nine thirty on us. I'm doing

849
01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:55,840
other nine thirty on Sunday morning. I'm getting to I'm

850
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,199
getting ready to go somewhere else, all right. Under the

851
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,760
rule of monopolistic media themselves, the mere instruments of economic

852
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:08,360
and political power. That's good.

853
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,199
Speaker 2: So this is the critique that we hear all the

854
01:02:10,239 --> 01:02:13,400
time of the legacy media, I mean, the corporate press,

855
01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:17,960
in the context of what the Internet did to them,

856
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,400
they did have a monopolistic stranglehold on the flow of information.

857
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:27,360
You know, what choices you're you're given at the ballot

858
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:34,000
box are determined, you know, by the cathedral. He's he's described,

859
01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:36,960
he's describing, you know that as it's happening.

860
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: Under the rule of monopolistic media themselves, the mere instruments

861
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,719
of economic and political power, a mentality is created for

862
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,320
which right and wrong, true and false are pre defined

863
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:57,159
wherever they affect the vital interests of the society. This

864
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:02,239
is prior to all expression and community. A matter of semantics,

865
01:03:02,639 --> 01:03:06,239
the blocking of effective descent of the recognition of that

866
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,119
which is not of the establishment, which begins in the

867
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:14,639
language that is publicized and administered the meaning of words

868
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:21,320
is rigidly stabilized, and I would say, now the meaning

869
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,119
of words it is actively distorted.

870
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah. He's he's a little

871
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,280
behind the times. He's a little too modernist. Just him

872
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,400
talking about objective truth at all. Yeah, that's that's like

873
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:46,840
a early frank like early Frankfurt school sixties characteristic.

874
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the nineteen forty six Orwell essay politics and

875
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,000
the English language. I mean it's twenty almost twenty years

876
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,840
before this. Orwell's talking about the distortion language at that point,

877
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:06,960
how it basically means nothing. And academic agent Nima calls

878
01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:12,760
him says, how most political language and journalistic language is

879
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:21,079
loaded with thought terminating cliches. Yeah yeah, or these cliches

880
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:23,119
are just fed in there, and it's like, oh, I

881
01:04:23,159 --> 01:04:25,360
know exactly what to mean now, I don't have to

882
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,159
think anymore. I know exactly. I know exactly what to

883
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:28,639
think now.

884
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:37,719
Speaker 2: I was just reading a critical review of Imperium, and I,

885
01:04:37,719 --> 01:04:41,000
I guess I couldn't really, I couldn't really put it

886
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:45,639
into words to articulate like that that exact thing you

887
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,639
just said, thought terminating just phrases.

888
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:55,039
Speaker 1: That's what the the person who was writing the Yeah critique.

889
01:04:55,079 --> 01:04:59,159
Speaker 2: The entire time he was doing the review, it was

890
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:03,880
just cliche cliches. Yeah did in early life check on

891
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:04,559
him too, and.

892
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: Rational persuasion. Persuasion to the opposite is all but precluded.

893
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:15,840
The avenues of entrance are closed to the meaning of

894
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,920
words and ideas other than the established one established by

895
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,079
the publicity of the powers to be and verified in

896
01:05:23,159 --> 01:05:27,719
their practices. Other words can be spoken and heard, other

897
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,840
ideas can be expressed, but at the massive scale of

898
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:36,039
the conservative majority. Outside such enclaves as the intelligentsia, they

899
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:42,199
are immediately evaluated, i e. Automatically understood in terms of

900
01:05:42,239 --> 01:05:46,599
the public language, a language which determines a priori the

901
01:05:46,719 --> 01:05:53,000
direction in which the thought process moves. I can I'm not.

902
01:05:53,679 --> 01:05:58,039
I want to disagree, but I can't. I can't.

903
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: We I mean, that's where we're we're slipping down the

904
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:07,199
slope from the things that he's talking about in his

905
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,760
day right now, like we are still sliding down that slope.

906
01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:14,960
You know, the ability to think three steps ahead in

907
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:19,400
terms of policy and just in terms of introducing ideas

908
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:24,840
to the mainstream, the direction that that's going to, that

909
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,360
that they're going to take. Now it goes back to

910
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,000
the old trope that there are no conspiracy theorists anymore.

911
01:06:32,599 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're gonna do about another another page here,

912
01:06:37,519 --> 01:06:39,599
and then we'll cut it and cut it and uh,

913
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,119
we'll do the rest, do the rest another episode. This

914
01:06:42,239 --> 01:06:44,239
is just take two episodes. In the beginning of this,

915
01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:46,320
when we were stopping every sentence, I'm like, oh man,

916
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:50,880
this is going to take ten episodes. All right, But

917
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:54,719
that's the process of reflection. And that's the process of

918
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,760
reflection ends where it started in the given conditions and

919
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,199
relations self validated. The argument of the discussion repels the

920
01:07:02,199 --> 01:07:09,079
contradiction because the antithesis is redefined in terms of the thesis. Yeah,

921
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:13,639
I get it. Yeah, well it's like begging the question,

922
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,400
like the begging the question fallacy, Yeah, or.

923
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 2: Just controlling the opposition speaking all you know, referring to

924
01:07:23,519 --> 01:07:27,960
your opposition to say a cultural trope in the exact

925
01:07:28,119 --> 01:07:31,920
terms of the enemy, the exact terms the enemy gave

926
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,320
to you in order to talk about it.

927
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:40,599
Speaker 1: For example, thesis we work for peace and to and

928
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:45,760
to antithesis, Why did I want to say anti anti thesis,

929
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:51,079
so that for example, thesis we work for peace antithesis

930
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:55,599
we prepare for war or even we wage war. Unification

931
01:07:55,679 --> 01:08:01,840
of opposites. Preparing for war is working for peace. Piece

932
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:06,280
is redefined as necessary as necessarily in the prevailing situation,

933
01:08:06,719 --> 01:08:10,679
including preparation for war or even war or even war,

934
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,320
And in this Orwellian form, the meaning of the word

935
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:20,159
piece is stabilized. Thus, the basic vocabulary of the Orwellian

936
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:28,359
language operates as a priori categories of understanding, all pre forming,

937
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:34,960
all content. These conditions invalidate the logic of tolerance, which

938
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,960
involves the rational development of meaning and precludes the closing

939
01:08:39,039 --> 01:08:44,199
of meaning. Consequently, persuasion through discussion and the equal presentation

940
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:49,039
of opposites even where it is really equal, easily lose

941
01:08:49,119 --> 01:08:52,880
their liberating force as factors of understanding and learning. They

942
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,920
are far more likely to strengthen and the established thesis

943
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,359
and to repel the alternatives. I can't argue with them

944
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:03,920
on any of this. No, this is is, in fact

945
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:04,640
what they do.

946
01:09:05,079 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 2: He's not telling us what we don't already know. But

947
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,199
I guess at the time it was cool to notice

948
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,239
he was doing a little noticing himself.

949
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:19,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if you ever searched out his early

950
01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:25,199
nevermind impartiality to the utmost equal treatment of competing and

951
01:09:25,239 --> 01:09:29,439
conflicting issues is indeed a basic requirement for decision making

952
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:30,960
in the democratic process.

953
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 2: Here's why that's wrong.

954
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: It is an equally basic requirement for defining the limits

955
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:44,880
of tolerance. But in a democracy with totalitarian organization, objectivity

956
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,960
may fulfill a very different function, namely to foster a

957
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,159
mental attitude which tends to obliterate the difference between true

958
01:09:52,159 --> 01:09:58,840
and false information and indoctrination right and wrong. In fact,

959
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:02,720
the decision between opposed opinions has been made, has been

960
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,520
made before the presentation and discussion get under way, made

961
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,680
not by a conspiracy or a sponsor or a publisher,

962
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,399
not by any dictatorship, but rather by the normal course

963
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,199
of events, which is the course of administered events, and

964
01:10:16,239 --> 01:10:21,000
by the mentality shaped in this course. Here too, it

965
01:10:21,079 --> 01:10:33,159
is the whole which determines the truth. I'm people who

966
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:35,239
have never read stuff like this, like when we were

967
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:38,520
reading when we read A State and Revolution. You know

968
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,640
all the people in the comments who are like, holy crap,

969
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:47,319
I agree with so much of this. Here too, it

970
01:10:47,399 --> 01:10:50,560
is the whole which determines the truth. Then the decision

971
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:55,760
asserts itself without any open violation of objectivity in such

972
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,760
things as the makeup of a newspaper, with the breaking

973
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:03,199
up of vital information into bits interspersed between extraneous material,

974
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:08,399
irrelevant items, relegating of some radically negative news to an

975
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:16,119
obscure place, in the juxtaposition of gorgeous ads with unmitigated horrors,

976
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,840
and the introduction and interruption of the broadcasting of facts

977
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,239
by overwhelming commercials.

978
01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:29,359
Speaker 2: That's my timeline. Just describe My timeline is man made

979
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:33,319
horrors beyond your comprehension. You can then an add for

980
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:38,600
some like cool gifts for your for your wedding.

981
01:11:38,279 --> 01:11:43,560
Speaker 1: Party, green anarchists, or have been all over this for

982
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,880
so long. I mean, this is a conversation. Bellamy could

983
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:53,760
be preaching this right now. The result is a neutralization

984
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,640
of opposites, a neutralization, however, which takes place on the

985
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:01,600
firm grounds of the structural limitation of tolerance and within

986
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:05,840
a pre formed mentality. When a magazine prints side by

987
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,159
side a negative and positive report on the FBI, it

988
01:12:09,239 --> 01:12:14,600
fulfills honestly the requirements of objectivity. However, the chances are

989
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,119
that a positive that the positive wins, because the image

990
01:12:18,119 --> 01:12:21,640
of the institution is deeply engraved in the mind of

991
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:22,199
the people.

992
01:12:23,119 --> 01:12:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean if you think about it practically

993
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:31,359
on an individual level, Let's say something hurt. Let's say

994
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:37,720
I don't know, nine to eleven to two happens, and

995
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,720
then at the same time there the article is in

996
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,720
one column for that, and then the article right next

997
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:49,760
to it is, you know, pictures of tits. You know, like,

998
01:12:50,279 --> 01:12:53,000
I'm not going to feel anything about nine to eleven

999
01:12:53,079 --> 01:12:55,920
two because I'm going to read that and say, wow,

1000
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,479
that's awful, and then I'm going to look at tits

1001
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,119
and then I'm going to walk away feeling kind of

1002
01:13:01,159 --> 01:13:03,479
bad about nine to eleven two, but probably not as

1003
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,079
bad as I could conceivably be, not bad enough to

1004
01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:10,319
do anything about it.

1005
01:13:12,119 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 1: Or if a newscaster reports the torture and murder of

1006
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:19,000
civil rights workers in the same unemotional tone he uses

1007
01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:22,079
to describe the stock market or the weather, or with

1008
01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:25,479
the same great emotion with which he says as commercials,

1009
01:13:26,039 --> 01:13:30,960
then such objectivity is spurious. More, it offends against humanity

1010
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,479
and truth by being calm where no one where one

1011
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:37,720
should be enraged, by refraining from accusation where accusation is

1012
01:13:38,079 --> 01:13:41,319
the fact is in the fact themselves.

1013
01:13:42,319 --> 01:13:49,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I get what he's saying. It's psychological.

1014
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: The toleration expressed in such impartiality serves to minimize or

1015
01:13:54,840 --> 01:14:02,319
even absolve prevailing intolerance and suppression. If objectivity has to

1016
01:14:02,399 --> 01:14:04,960
do with truth, and if truth is more than a

1017
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,479
matter of logic and science, then this kind of objectivity

1018
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:14,239
is false, and this kind of tolerance inhuman. And if

1019
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:17,760
it is necessary to break the established universe of meaning

1020
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:21,199
and the practiced and closed in this universe in order

1021
01:14:21,239 --> 01:14:23,800
to enable man to find out what is true and false,

1022
01:14:24,199 --> 01:14:31,560
this deceptive impartiality would have to be abandoned. The people

1023
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:35,880
exposed to this impartiality are no tabula rasa. They are

1024
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:40,720
indoctrinated by the conditions under which they live and think,

1025
01:14:41,079 --> 01:14:45,840
and which they do not transcend. Yeah, didn't you get

1026
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,800
what he's saying. Yeah, well, I mean it's interesting that

1027
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:59,279
he brings up tabula rossa because progressivism, it assumes every

1028
01:14:59,319 --> 01:15:01,479
prepos is, it presupposes.

1029
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, just not, I guess, just not in this case,

1030
01:15:05,079 --> 01:15:08,720
in the context of you know, propaganda.

1031
01:15:09,119 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 1: Well, no, in this case, the tabula rasa, which which

1032
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,359
should have been from the very start, you know, probably

1033
01:15:17,399 --> 01:15:20,720
taken away from their parents who maybe Christians or Muslims

1034
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:26,680
or or whatever, they're already poisoned. Yeah, yeah, so.

1035
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:32,039
Speaker 2: And then your average news watcher is yeah, definitely not

1036
01:15:32,199 --> 01:15:35,359
a blank slate to be filled.

1037
01:15:37,079 --> 01:15:39,359
Speaker 1: All right, let's finish this. I think if we finished

1038
01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:44,840
these up to the right up to I think we

1039
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,840
finished this paragraph, it would be a good ending point,

1040
01:15:47,119 --> 01:15:51,920
all right, to enable them to become autonomous, to find

1041
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,159
by themselves what is true and what is false. For

1042
01:15:54,319 --> 01:15:57,159
men in the existing society, they would have to be

1043
01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:01,359
freed from the prevailing indoctrination, which is no longer recognized

1044
01:16:01,399 --> 01:16:05,359
as indoctrination. But this means that the trend would have

1045
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,880
to be reversed. They would have to get information slanted

1046
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,239
in the opposite direction. For the facts are never given

1047
01:16:12,399 --> 01:16:19,239
immediately and never accessible immediately. They are established, mediated by

1048
01:16:19,279 --> 01:16:23,760
those who made them. The truth, the whole truth quote

1049
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:28,760
unquote surpasses these facts and requires the rupture with their appearance.

1050
01:16:30,279 --> 01:16:34,560
This rupture, prerequisite and token of all freedom of thought

1051
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,520
and of speech, cannot be accomplished within the established framework

1052
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:43,640
of abstract tolerance and spurious objectivity, because they are precisely

1053
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:48,279
the factors which precondition the mind against the rupture.

1054
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I guess if if we suddenly started seeing

1055
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:06,239
journalists speak to people speak to us like they would

1056
01:17:06,319 --> 01:17:10,159
in real life, it would probably blow our minds.

1057
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be like.

1058
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 2: Or just anybody on the Internet, because we're all purveyors

1059
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:21,439
of information.

1060
01:17:23,239 --> 01:17:26,079
Speaker 1: It's like if you're used to seeing and if you're

1061
01:17:26,119 --> 01:17:28,319
used to going to the zoo and seeing an animal

1062
01:17:28,399 --> 01:17:31,680
performed tricks, they'd be like seeing them in their natural

1063
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:36,319
habitat where you're like, oh, they're actually really boring, and

1064
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:39,680
then you realize, oh, wait a minit, they're putting on a performance.

1065
01:17:40,359 --> 01:17:41,600
It's a performance for me.

1066
01:17:43,199 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's always been an idea I've

1067
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:52,000
had that you know that not I've had, but just

1068
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:59,399
a popular idea that absolute tolerance can't work and can't

1069
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:04,159
exist any ways, just because we we live in we

1070
01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:06,399
we we live in the system that we do, and

1071
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:10,479
all the venues that can show that that are that

1072
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,760
are bound by whatever whatever metrics of tolerance there is,

1073
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:22,800
like social media, TV, news, pop culture whatever like there

1074
01:18:23,159 --> 01:18:28,680
there's it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. Absolute tolerance wouldn't work,

1075
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:34,960
just not not on a practical level. And once you

1076
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:38,239
kind of break through that that idea that tolerance is

1077
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:44,159
not good you can start to kind of fight back

1078
01:18:44,199 --> 01:18:47,359
against you know, while we we can't let Nazis at

1079
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:53,159
our protest because okay, well I can't let liberals at

1080
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:59,680
my house. You know, they've they kind of just don't.

1081
01:19:00,039 --> 01:19:02,159
I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

1082
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:08,720
Five of these in well, give me your thoughts and

1083
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:09,279
all boun.

1084
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he makes the point that if his goals

1085
01:19:15,119 --> 01:19:21,720
are going to be achieved, any thought, any action that

1086
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:26,840
is against that would derail those goals needs to be repressed.

1087
01:19:27,399 --> 01:19:34,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the goals are the destruction of oppressive structures.

1088
01:19:35,359 --> 01:19:44,359
Speaker 1: Which some which could very simply be called hierarchies, aristocracies,

1089
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:48,239
things like that. Yeah, which hierarchy, Yeah, which I think

1090
01:19:48,279 --> 01:19:49,720
are inherent in nature.

1091
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely there, but to the bottom left, they exist

1092
01:19:56,199 --> 01:19:58,640
to be destroyed.

1093
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: Yep. All right, Well we'll pick this up again. Do

1094
01:20:05,039 --> 01:20:07,399
you want to plug anything I was listening to this

1095
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,159
episode today that I was actually supposed to be on

1096
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:14,479
on on Exorcism.

1097
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:15,199
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1098
01:20:15,279 --> 01:20:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. We just dropped an over the line episode on

1099
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:22,039
Timeline Earth for our Patreon subscribers, if you want to

1100
01:20:22,119 --> 01:20:25,239
check that out. It's about exorcism and spiritual warfare, getting

1101
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:31,760
into the history, the practice, the nuts and bolts. I

1102
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,159
haven't I do need to come up with a Boystown

1103
01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:38,760
episode eventually. That's that's my personal spin off of Timeline Earth,

1104
01:20:39,279 --> 01:20:41,319
and I haven't done one in over a year because

1105
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:45,399
I'm a piece of ship with a very demanding job.

1106
01:20:47,239 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: Well, I think everyone appreciates you taking the time to

1107
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:55,439
do this, and we'll we'll we'll talk about when we

1108
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,399
can do part two and everything. Because I'm someone with

1109
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,199
a with all of time on my hands and you're

1110
01:21:01,239 --> 01:21:04,039
someone with like no time on your hands. So and

1111
01:21:04,279 --> 01:21:06,279
you know, someone with a lot of time on their hands,

1112
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:09,520
like canceled at the last minute to be on that episode,

1113
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,760
which I really wanted to be on. But you know

1114
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:17,119
the reason why you forgive me because you've been there recently.

1115
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:25,399
All right, man, until part two? Thank you. I want

1116
01:21:25,399 --> 01:21:28,960
to welcome everyone back to you the Pekana Show. Aaron.

1117
01:21:29,239 --> 01:21:30,600
Let's finish this out how you don't know?

1118
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:32,520
Speaker 2: So far, so good.

1119
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,640
Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, Let's get this up there

1120
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,159
and just jump right in. I had to look up

1121
01:21:39,199 --> 01:21:41,479
exactly where we left off because you know, I'm not

1122
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:48,000
gonna remember that ship So the last the last paragraph

1123
01:21:48,079 --> 01:21:53,640
before we ended, I was talking about the people exposed

1124
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:58,600
to talking about tabula rossa, people exposed to this and partiality.

1125
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:02,239
There are no tabula ras so they are indoctrinaty, so indoctrination.

1126
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:08,840
So all right, the factual barriers which totalitarian democracy erects

1127
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:13,920
against the efficacy of qualitative dissent are weak and pleasant

1128
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:18,439
enough compared with the practices of a dictatorship which claims

1129
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,600
to educate the people in the truth.

1130
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 2: Huh. That's uh, yeah, I don't know if I agree

1131
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,760
with full on dictatorship, but you know, whatever, we have,

1132
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,600
whatever you would call it right now, that's that's the

1133
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:40,680
main characteristic of the people of power. Yeah, I mean,

1134
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,920
that's that's the disease of intellectualism.

1135
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: Well, and what we have now is so they're they're

1136
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:52,159
claiming to educate the people and the truth. They have

1137
01:22:52,279 --> 01:22:58,000
the truth, and they are definitely at that drawing broadline

1138
01:22:58,359 --> 01:22:59,520
friend enemy distinction.

1139
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:08,399
Speaker 2: It's they've conspicuously taken on that task as heroically as

1140
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,079
they can possibly make it. That, yes, this is their

1141
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:16,680
rise on Detroit is to educate, educate the people and

1142
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,600
the truth. And you see it every single day, whether

1143
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:23,640
it's all meeting. I mean that's what we're doing too.

1144
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,199
So I mean like, but when everybody is doing that,

1145
01:23:27,359 --> 01:23:32,199
then you have that's yeah, you have a diseased society.

1146
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, if we if you have a society where

1147
01:23:36,359 --> 01:23:43,039
people are warring over what the truth is, your society

1148
01:23:43,119 --> 01:23:45,720
is completely as far to the left because you're existing

1149
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:46,319
in chaos.

1150
01:23:46,319 --> 01:23:49,399
Speaker 2: There's no order at all, even if the fight is

1151
01:23:49,399 --> 01:23:55,039
between objective truth and this you know, idea of subjective truth,

1152
01:23:55,840 --> 01:24:01,199
whatever subjective truth, whatever branch that gets off into for

1153
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:07,479
for both sides. Yeah, we are. That's I would say

1154
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,319
that would characterize this spiritual warfare that we're in. Then

1155
01:24:11,319 --> 01:24:13,239
I talked about the Patreon episode that you should buy

1156
01:24:13,279 --> 01:24:14,079
a tile on Earth.

1157
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:19,159
Speaker 1: It's a good episode, all right, with all its limitations

1158
01:24:19,159 --> 01:24:24,479
and distortions. Democratic tolerance is, under all circumstances, more humane

1159
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:29,479
than an institutionalized intolerance, which sacrifices the rights and liberties

1160
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:33,600
of the living generations for the sake of the future generations.

1161
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,640
Speaker 2: All right, It is that a knock or is he

1162
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:42,319
just stating a fact?

1163
01:24:43,359 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 1: With all its limitations and distortions, Democratic tolerances, under all circumstances,

1164
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:54,199
more humane than an institutionalized intolerance, which sacrifices the rights

1165
01:24:54,199 --> 01:24:57,319
and liberties of the living generations. Now, when he says that,

1166
01:24:57,399 --> 01:25:04,239
I immediately think of like what a like monarchy where yeah,

1167
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:13,800
where it also a humane, humane institute. You know. Thomas

1168
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,880
said something on an episode recently. He was talking about

1169
01:25:18,279 --> 01:25:21,920
the difference between the Soviet Union and the United States

1170
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:25,720
after nineteen fifty, and he was saying that, you know, well,

1171
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:28,680
what did the Soviet Union do after nineteen fifty? They

1172
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,159
just basically and after Stalin was out of power. I mean,

1173
01:25:33,119 --> 01:25:36,359
they could abuse your body, they could you know, you know,

1174
01:25:36,399 --> 01:25:41,720
a lot of the Gulags were you know, we're they

1175
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:45,399
weren't as severe as before, you know, before when Stalin

1176
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,399
was alive. But really, the when you look at what

1177
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:53,159
the United States has done to people, I mean, at

1178
01:25:53,239 --> 01:25:56,399
least Russians still believe that they're Russians. They still look

1179
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:01,479
they have some kind of identity. Everything that we that

1180
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:05,439
we have, we possess, any kind of tradition, any kind

1181
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:10,680
of family, they've they're this regime seeks to derascinate us

1182
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:14,239
from and just basically strip us down into nothing.

1183
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 2: Well, we don't have anything comparable to Goole Aggs or

1184
01:26:22,359 --> 01:26:27,479
or even the destolinization process within living memory. And the

1185
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:33,079
further we get from these references that you know our grandparents,

1186
01:26:33,399 --> 01:26:36,159
you know your grandparents, you're you.

1187
01:26:36,119 --> 01:26:38,359
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I'm older than you. Fuck you.

1188
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, certain certain members of

1189
01:26:46,079 --> 01:26:57,319
your tribe. What you're Ukrainian background, Oh yeah, Ukrainian dash something.

1190
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:03,199
Speaker 1: No, I'm like my DNA thing says two percent on

1191
01:27:03,319 --> 01:27:09,840
that part one drop, yeah, right, one drop role.

1192
01:27:12,079 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 2: But no, we don't have anything like that in living memory.

1193
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:19,960
So the further we get from both the atrocities and

1194
01:27:20,039 --> 01:27:24,960
the wine down from the atrocities being tolerable, the more

1195
01:27:25,079 --> 01:27:27,159
apt we are to go back to them.

1196
01:27:28,279 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good point, all right. The question is whether this

1197
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:36,159
is the only alternative. I shall presently try to suggest

1198
01:27:36,199 --> 01:27:39,800
the direction in which an answer may be sought. In

1199
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,640
any case, the contrast is not between democracy and the

1200
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:48,479
abstract and dictatorship in the abstract. Democracy is a form

1201
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:52,159
of government which fits very different types of societies. This

1202
01:27:52,199 --> 01:27:55,359
holds true even for a democracy with universal suffrage and

1203
01:27:55,359 --> 01:27:58,439
equality before the law, and the human costs of a

1204
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:02,760
democracy are always and everywhere those exacted by the society

1205
01:28:03,039 --> 01:28:08,079
whose government it is. Their range extends all the way

1206
01:28:08,119 --> 01:28:14,279
from normal exploitation, poverty, and insecurity to and insecurity to

1207
01:28:14,359 --> 01:28:18,399
the victims of wars, police actions, military aid, etc. In

1208
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,319
which the society is engaged, and not only to the

1209
01:28:21,399 --> 01:28:30,359
victims within its own frontiers. Yeah. These considerations can never

1210
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,800
justify the exacting of different sacrifices and different victims on

1211
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:38,840
behalf of a future better society, but they do allow

1212
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:43,640
weighing the cost involved in the perpetuation of an existing

1213
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:48,279
society against the risk of promoting alternatives which offer a

1214
01:28:48,359 --> 01:28:57,079
reasonable chance of pacification and liberation. Surely, no government can

1215
01:28:57,079 --> 01:29:01,119
be expected to foster its own subversion. But in a democracy,

1216
01:29:01,279 --> 01:29:04,199
such a right as vested in the people i e.

1217
01:29:04,359 --> 01:29:05,720
The majority of the people.

1218
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 2: Ah yeah, in theory.

1219
01:29:12,039 --> 01:29:16,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it sounds good. Yeah, this means that the

1220
01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:19,840
ways should be This means that the ways should not

1221
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:24,119
be blocked on which a subversive majority could develop, and

1222
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:27,880
if they are blocked by organized repression and indoctrination, their

1223
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:35,560
reopening may require apparently undemocratic means. Obviously, Yeah, they would

1224
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,239
include the withdrawal of toleration of speech and assembly from

1225
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:46,039
groups and movements which promote aggressive policies, armament, chauvinism, discrimination,

1226
01:29:46,199 --> 01:29:49,439
on the grounds of race and religion, of which opposed

1227
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:56,159
the extension of public services, social security, medicare, etc.

1228
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe when he wrote this, I mean

1229
01:30:01,319 --> 01:30:06,720
the last the social security, medical uh, public services, medical,

1230
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,279
medical care, all that grap I don't think there's a

1231
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:14,720
that's that's not really a thing with the left right debate.

1232
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,920
I think the right is okay with having a welfare state.

1233
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:23,039
Speaker 1: Yep. They they're actively anti racist. Just call them a

1234
01:30:23,119 --> 01:30:24,239
racist and you'll find out.

1235
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1236
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:30,720
Speaker 1: So Moreover, the restoration of freedom of thought may necessitate

1237
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:35,479
new and rigid restrictions on teachings and practices in the education,

1238
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:39,760
in the educational institutions, which, by their very methods and

1239
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,600
concept the concepts, serve to enclose the mind within the

1240
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:49,359
established universe of discourse and behavior, thereby precluding a priori

1241
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:53,800
a rational evaluation of the alternatives.

1242
01:30:54,399 --> 01:30:59,560
Speaker 2: So that's not happening, right, I mean, the the the

1243
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:03,159
enclosed us of the mind is happening again. Like, this

1244
01:31:03,199 --> 01:31:05,039
is all stuff that we can agree for, but for

1245
01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:06,880
way different reasons than he wants us to.

1246
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, and to the degree to which freedom of

1247
01:31:12,079 --> 01:31:17,039
thought involves the struggle against inhumanity, restoration of such freedom

1248
01:31:17,239 --> 01:31:22,399
would also imply intolerance towards scientific research in the interest

1249
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:28,920
of deadly deterrence of abnormal human endurance under inhuman conditions,

1250
01:31:29,319 --> 01:31:34,520
et cetera. I shall presently discuss the question as to

1251
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:38,560
who is to decide on the distinction between liberating and

1252
01:31:39,159 --> 01:31:44,359
liberating and repressive human and inhuman teachings and practices. I

1253
01:31:44,399 --> 01:31:48,520
have already suggested that this at that this distinction is

1254
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:52,359
not a matter of value preference, but of rational criteria.

1255
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 2: Yes, the fattest, most blue haired, most transgender Muslim activists

1256
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:01,159
they are are the ones qualified.

1257
01:32:04,159 --> 01:32:07,319
Speaker 1: While the reversal of the trend in the educational enterprise

1258
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:11,039
at least could conceivably be enforced by the students and

1259
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:16,479
teachers themselves and thus be self imposed, the systematic withdrawal

1260
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:21,439
of tolerance towards regressive and repressive opinions and movements could

1261
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:30,439
only be envisaged, had envisaged envisaged enough to look that

1262
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:34,079
up as results of well, try to figure it out

1263
01:32:34,159 --> 01:32:39,760
contexts as results of large scale pressure, which would amount

1264
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:44,279
to an upheaval book could only be you know. In

1265
01:32:44,359 --> 01:32:48,119
other words, it would presuppose that which is still to

1266
01:32:48,159 --> 01:32:54,079
be accomplished. The reversal of the trend. However, resistance at

1267
01:32:54,119 --> 01:32:59,359
particular occasions, boycott, non participation at the local and small

1268
01:32:59,399 --> 01:33:04,920
group level may perhaps prepare the ground. The subversive character

1269
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:08,000
of the restoration of freedom appears most clearly in that

1270
01:33:08,119 --> 01:33:12,199
dimension of society where false tolerance and free enterprise do

1271
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:16,640
perhaps the most serious and lasting damage, namely in business

1272
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:17,920
and publicity.

1273
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:26,119
Speaker 2: So corporations and media. Let's try to parse, parse all

1274
01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:34,560
that together. I guess, to dumb it down. In a

1275
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,600
democratic system, there will never be any type of social

1276
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:45,640
upheaval that they haven't already approved of way ahead of time.

1277
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:53,239
What else is he trying to say? It's going to

1278
01:33:53,239 --> 01:33:57,800
be the fortune five hundred corporations in the media, which

1279
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,479
are the most liberal and all so the most free enterprise.

1280
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:07,279
I don't mean free enterprise and like a libertarian context,

1281
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:14,399
I mean like they eat amongst each other. They are

1282
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:19,079
going to be the uh, the Petri dish, and the

1283
01:34:19,159 --> 01:34:25,920
accelerant for any type of any type of social upheaval

1284
01:34:26,199 --> 01:34:31,560
that has been pre approved. I think that's what he's

1285
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:32,800
trying to say. In a nutshell.

1286
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:35,279
Speaker 1: If that's what he's trying to say to you think

1287
01:34:35,279 --> 01:34:40,560
we've seen that, Oh yeah, absolutely, it's default though, Yeah,

1288
01:34:43,239 --> 01:34:49,760
against the emphatic insistence on the part of spokesmen for labor,

1289
01:34:50,119 --> 01:34:54,720
I maintain that practices such as planned obsolescence, collusion between

1290
01:34:54,760 --> 01:35:00,000
union leadership and management, slanted publicity are not simply imposed

1291
01:35:00,159 --> 01:35:03,319
from above on a powerless rank and file, but are

1292
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:08,399
tolerated by them and by the consumer at large.

1293
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:10,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, we tolerate a lot.

1294
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,359
Speaker 1: However, it would be ridiculous to speak of a possible

1295
01:35:15,399 --> 01:35:18,880
withdrawal of tolerance with respect to these practices and to

1296
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,840
the ideologies promoted by them, for they pertain to the

1297
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:27,600
basis on which the repressive, affluent society rests and reproduces

1298
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:31,680
itself and its vital defenses. Their removal would be that

1299
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:36,640
total revolution which this society so effectively repels.

1300
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, I think what he's trying to

1301
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,800
say is our material condition is so good that they're

1302
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,079
willing to put up We are willing to put up

1303
01:35:47,119 --> 01:35:54,199
with so much. When we will eventually reach that trip

1304
01:35:54,239 --> 01:35:57,920
wire to where we chimp out, I don't know. But

1305
01:35:58,359 --> 01:36:01,560
even now, however bad you might think it is, I

1306
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:02,359
think we still.

1307
01:36:02,119 --> 01:36:05,039
Speaker 1: Have a while. Well. I mean, you were saying in

1308
01:36:05,119 --> 01:36:08,760
twenty twenty that people aren't hungry yet.

1309
01:36:09,319 --> 01:36:11,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, ye, people aren't hungry yet.

1310
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 1: To discuss tolerance in such a society means to re

1311
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:20,560
examine the issue of violence and the traditional distinction between

1312
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:25,079
violent and nonviolent action. The discussion should not from the

1313
01:36:25,119 --> 01:36:30,159
beginning be clouded by ideologies which serve the perpetuation of violence.

1314
01:36:31,159 --> 01:36:36,000
Even in the advanced centers of civilization, violence actually prevails.

1315
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:39,119
It is practiced by the police, in the prisons and

1316
01:36:39,159 --> 01:36:43,960
mental institutions, in the fight against racial minorities, it is carried.

1317
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:48,600
It is carried by the defenders of metropolitan freedom into

1318
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:57,600
the backward countries. The violence indeed breeds violence, but to

1319
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,399
refrain from violence in the face of that superior violence

1320
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:05,840
is one thing. To renounce a priori violence against violence

1321
01:37:06,039 --> 01:37:10,640
or ethical or sociological grounds because it may antagonize sympathizers

1322
01:37:11,039 --> 01:37:18,680
is another. Yeah. Nonviolence is normally not only preached to to,

1323
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:22,880
but extracted from the weak. It is a necessity rather

1324
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,880
than a virtue, and normally it does not seriously harm.

1325
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:30,319
The case of the strong is the case of India

1326
01:37:30,359 --> 01:37:34,119
an exception. Their passive resistance was carried through on a

1327
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:38,399
massive scale which disrupted or threatened to disrupt the economic

1328
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:42,880
life of the country. Quantity turns into quality. On such

1329
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:47,000
a scale, passive resistance is no longer passive. It ceases

1330
01:37:47,079 --> 01:37:49,680
to be non violent. The same holds true for the

1331
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:50,640
general strike.

1332
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just gallons if if the general strike

1333
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:03,159
even approach entering the entering the modern discourse.

1334
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,600
Speaker 1: I mean when you every once in a while you'll

1335
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,000
see someone talk about it, it'll be like Caleb mop

1336
01:38:13,039 --> 01:38:15,760
In and you just the people you would expect it

1337
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:20,840
to come from. But it's it's a I mean from

1338
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:21,159
the right.

1339
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I mean as as blue collar as

1340
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:31,640
the rights become in the last you know, thirty years,

1341
01:38:32,199 --> 01:38:36,039
you'll you'll never you'll never see a general strike because

1342
01:38:36,159 --> 01:38:36,680
then you go.

1343
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Hungry, right, right, And we're not a grarian.

1344
01:38:42,159 --> 01:38:43,319
Speaker 2: Nope, not anymore, we're not.

1345
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:48,359
Speaker 1: Nope. Robespierre's distinction between the terror of liberty and the

1346
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:52,359
terror of despotism, and his moral glorification of the former,

1347
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:56,640
belongs to the most convincingly condemned aberrations. Even if the

1348
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:04,079
white terror was more bloody than the Red terror. Yeah, well,

1349
01:39:04,119 --> 01:39:08,640
I mean, who want to try and compare and see

1350
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:10,279
which one was more violent? I don't think we need

1351
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:14,920
to do that. Yeah, the comparative evaluation in terms of

1352
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,520
the number of victims is the quantifying approach, which reveals

1353
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:22,159
a man made horror throughout history that made violence and necessity.

1354
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:26,079
In terms of historical function, there is a difference between

1355
01:39:26,079 --> 01:39:30,159
the revolutionary and reactionary violence, between violence practiced by the

1356
01:39:30,199 --> 01:39:34,560
oppressed and by the oppressors in terms of Yeah, I

1357
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:35,560
mean think about that.

1358
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:40,640
Speaker 2: And it's each ideology's responsibility to capture either one of

1359
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:41,359
those terms.

1360
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:47,319
Speaker 1: First, I have seen people this week on social media

1361
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,560
and in comments that we actually read yesterday in the

1362
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,960
live stream we did for Old Glory Club where pro

1363
01:39:56,079 --> 01:39:59,800
trands people, people who were actually celebrating what happened at

1364
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:04,720
that Christian school in Nashville were basically saying that they

1365
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:09,600
were the oppressed and that the government was the oppressor

1366
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:10,920
is still the oppressor to.

1367
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 5: Them, They're yeah, I mean this is actually it's it's

1368
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:22,079
so perfect that we're reading this in the backdrop of

1369
01:40:22,319 --> 01:40:23,840
that Nashville shooting.

1370
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 2: Because you're seeing this in real life. Yeah, I mean,

1371
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:35,920
it's it's insane. It's been such a black pill to

1372
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:41,199
see just nobody, like even people that we would expect

1373
01:40:41,279 --> 01:40:47,039
to have some type of strong take with it. Nothing,

1374
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:50,319
nothing except for the usual people like that that we

1375
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:53,880
see in our timeline that we expect, but man, it's

1376
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:56,079
been fucking it's just been disappointed.

1377
01:40:57,560 --> 01:40:59,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope I made some sense last night,

1378
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:03,359
because you know, I'm one of those people who believes

1379
01:41:03,399 --> 01:41:07,039
that trans people are victims. I believe they're victims of

1380
01:41:07,279 --> 01:41:12,479
a campaign that, you know, just like any other campaign,

1381
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:17,760
the campaign for FIAT money, the campaign for wars and everything.

1382
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,920
But when it comes, once the violence starts, and once

1383
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:27,920
innocent people start start falling by their hands, then I

1384
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:31,000
have to step back and I have to go all right, Well,

1385
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:38,880
I wasn't exactly supporting you at this point up until

1386
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:43,600
this point, but I'm definitely you know, I'm definitely disengaged,

1387
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,159
and I'm not going to make any excuses anymore.

1388
01:41:47,399 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 2: If tragedies like that are just, by the odds going

1389
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:59,640
to happen, then I I almost hope that the level

1390
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:05,479
of vitriol and shaden freud and just the opportunity, the

1391
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:10,520
opportunism that comes about from basically dancing on victim's grave,

1392
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:16,119
I almost hope that it drowns out rational voices. That's

1393
01:42:16,159 --> 01:42:18,000
that's what needs especially on the internet.

1394
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, excelent accelerationism on the Internet is basically the default.

1395
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:26,800
There should be the default.

1396
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:32,279
Speaker 2: I I I don't like seeing it, and I don't

1397
01:42:31,359 --> 01:42:36,479
I don't know if if there is a way to

1398
01:42:37,039 --> 01:42:40,520
separate your internet self from your real life self and

1399
01:42:40,680 --> 01:42:46,239
say that it's the complete fucking opposite. I'm I'm there.

1400
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:48,680
I don't know if I'm morally correct. I don't know

1401
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:50,439
if I'm going to burn an l for that, But.

1402
01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right. In terms of ethics, both forms of

1403
01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:03,439
violence are inhuman and evil. But since when is history

1404
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:07,840
made in accordance with ethical standards? It's a great question.

1405
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:12,560
It's a question that I ask all the time when

1406
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:17,319
people try to make moral arguments with me. So what

1407
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:23,039
does morality have to do with this? To start applying

1408
01:43:23,079 --> 01:43:27,159
them at the point where the oppressed rebel against the oppress,

1409
01:43:27,399 --> 01:43:30,800
to start applying them at the point where the oppressed

1410
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:35,239
rebel against the oppressors, the have nots against the haves

1411
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:39,239
is serving the cause of actual violence by weakening the

1412
01:43:39,279 --> 01:43:45,000
protest against it. Here he quotes Jean Paul Sart. Try

1413
01:43:45,039 --> 01:43:48,600
to understand this at any rate. If violence began this

1414
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:52,279
very evening, and if exploitation and oppression had never existed

1415
01:43:52,279 --> 01:43:55,399
on the earth. Perhaps the slogans of non violence might

1416
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:58,920
end the coral. But if the whole regime, even for

1417
01:43:59,039 --> 01:44:04,479
non violence, even nonviolent ideas, are conditioned by a thousand

1418
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:08,159
year old oppression, your passivity serves only to place you

1419
01:44:08,279 --> 01:44:09,880
in the rank of the oppressors.

1420
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:11,840
Speaker 2: Silence is violence.

1421
01:44:14,279 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: But I mean, you see see people on our side too.

1422
01:44:19,239 --> 01:44:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm an ally.

1423
01:44:21,319 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 1: You're an ally. That's great, all right. The very notion

1424
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,039
of false tolerance and the distinction between right and wrong,

1425
01:44:29,119 --> 01:44:35,079
limitations on tolerance, between progressive and regressive indoctrination, revolutionary and

1426
01:44:35,119 --> 01:44:39,239
reactionary violence, demand the statement of criteria for its validity.

1427
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,840
These standards must be prior to whatever constitutional and legal

1428
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:48,479
criteria are set up and applied in an existing society

1429
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:51,119
which has clear Yeah.

1430
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:56,279
Speaker 2: First principles shouldn't be my constitution, yep, orm due process.

1431
01:44:56,840 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yeah, I remember the first person I

1432
01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:03,840
really talked to who who said this was Arn McIntyre,

1433
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:06,359
and he said, look, if you got to write, if

1434
01:45:06,399 --> 01:45:08,880
your society has to write stuff down, you've already lost.

1435
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:12,079
If you have to write your laws down, you've already lost.

1436
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Who are you writing them down for?

1437
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? All right? So okay, read that whole thing again.

1438
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:25,279
These standards must be prior to whatever constitutional and legal

1439
01:45:25,319 --> 01:45:28,119
criteria are set up and applied in an existing society,

1440
01:45:28,479 --> 01:45:31,439
such as clear and present danger and other established definitions

1441
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:36,239
of civil rights and liberties. For such definitions themselves presupposed

1442
01:45:36,239 --> 01:45:40,680
standards of freedom and repression as applicable or not applicable

1443
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:46,399
in the respective society. They are specifications of more general concepts.

1444
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,199
By whom and according to what standards can the political

1445
01:45:51,239 --> 01:45:55,159
distinction between true and false, progressive and regressive. For in

1446
01:45:55,199 --> 01:45:58,840
this sphere these pairs are equivalent be made and its

1447
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:03,920
validity be just defied. At the outset, I propose that

1448
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,479
the question cannot be answered in terms of the alternative

1449
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:12,000
between democracy and dictatorship, according to which in the latter

1450
01:46:12,279 --> 01:46:15,720
one individual or group, without any effective control from below,

1451
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:24,760
arrogate to them to themselves the decision. Historically, even in

1452
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:28,600
the most democratic democracies, the vital and final decisions affecting

1453
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,079
the society as a whole have been made constitutionally or

1454
01:46:32,079 --> 01:46:35,560
in fact, by one or several groups without effective control

1455
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:41,520
by the people themselves. The ironical question what true I mean,

1456
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:42,800
it's it's.

1457
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:46,399
Speaker 2: Just democracy is just a bunch of interest groups fighting.

1458
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's whichever group of elites you win. Basically,

1459
01:46:54,600 --> 01:46:58,479
the ironical question who educates the educators i e. The

1460
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:04,039
political leaders? All so applies to democracy. The only authentic

1461
01:47:04,079 --> 01:47:07,680
alternative and negation of dictatorship with respect to this question

1462
01:47:08,119 --> 01:47:10,439
would be a society in which the people have become

1463
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:14,960
autonomous individuals, freed from the repressive requirements of a struggle

1464
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:18,239
for existence and the interest of domination, and as such

1465
01:47:18,319 --> 01:47:21,680
human beings choosing their government and determining their life.

1466
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:26,039
Speaker 2: Chazz, he's describing Chaz.

1467
01:47:27,319 --> 01:47:29,800
Speaker 1: And Capistan and Japistan.

1468
01:47:30,239 --> 01:47:34,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, autonomy and freedom.

1469
01:47:34,279 --> 01:47:38,000
Speaker 1: Such a society does not yet exist anywhere in the means,

1470
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:42,079
and it never will. In the meantime, the question must

1471
01:47:42,119 --> 01:47:46,560
be treated in an abstract though abstraction, not from the

1472
01:47:46,720 --> 01:47:51,159
historical possibilities, but from the realities of the prevailing societies.

1473
01:47:52,479 --> 01:47:55,359
So he's basically going to apply something that doesn't exist

1474
01:47:55,720 --> 01:48:01,399
to reality. And as I think it was, Sam Francis said,

1475
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:06,520
channeling James Burnham, that never works because, and I will paraphrase,

1476
01:48:08,199 --> 01:48:10,039
everybody thinks they have a plan till they get punched

1477
01:48:10,039 --> 01:48:13,239
in the mouth. YEA. Everybody or everybody has a plan,

1478
01:48:13,319 --> 01:48:16,520
so they get punched in the mouth. All right. I

1479
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:19,760
think that was Mike Tyson too, just bringing all the

1480
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:23,960
philosophers in. I suggested that the distinction between true and

1481
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:28,920
false tolerance, between progress and regression can be made rationally

1482
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:33,119
on empirical grounds. The real possibilities of human freedom are

1483
01:48:33,159 --> 01:48:36,000
relative to the attained stage of civilization.

1484
01:48:37,039 --> 01:48:38,720
Speaker 2: Right now, we're getting into some Marxism.

1485
01:48:40,039 --> 01:48:43,560
Speaker 1: They depend on the material and intellectual resources available at

1486
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:47,760
their respective stage, and they are quantifiable and calculable to

1487
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:52,520
a high degree. So are at the stage of advanced

1488
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:56,359
industrial society the most rational ways of using these resources

1489
01:48:56,399 --> 01:48:59,840
and distributing the social product, with priority on the satisfaction

1490
01:49:00,119 --> 01:49:03,640
vital needs, and with a minimum of toil and injustice.

1491
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:05,600
Speaker 2: Oh god, oh.

1492
01:49:08,319 --> 01:49:10,720
Speaker 1: H, you knew it was coming. You knew it was coming.

1493
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:14,760
Speaker 2: Oh I was waiting for it so excited. I'm back,

1494
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:15,399
I'm back.

1495
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:19,359
Speaker 1: In other words, it is possible to define the direction

1496
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:23,159
in which prevailing institutions, policies, opinions would have to be

1497
01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:25,880
changed in order to improve the chance of a peace

1498
01:49:26,159 --> 01:49:29,000
which is not identical with cold war and a little

1499
01:49:29,039 --> 01:49:32,159
hot war, and a satisfaction of needs which does not

1500
01:49:32,239 --> 01:49:39,119
feed on poverty, oppression, and exploitation. Consequently, it is also

1501
01:49:39,239 --> 01:49:43,800
possible to identify policies, opinions, movements which would promote this

1502
01:49:44,039 --> 01:49:49,119
chance and those which would do the opposite. Suppression of

1503
01:49:49,119 --> 01:49:52,399
the regressive ones is a prerequisite for the strengthening of

1504
01:49:52,439 --> 01:49:53,600
the progressive ones.

1505
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:59,560
Speaker 2: It's power as a fixed pot, baby, and the Marxists wanted,

1506
01:50:01,319 --> 01:50:03,600
I want it.

1507
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:07,960
Speaker 1: My My theory is that power is a power, is

1508
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:11,159
a constant, and it's just it's just being divvied up.

1509
01:50:13,079 --> 01:50:19,079
Who divvs it up? Who gets the biggest piece? The

1510
01:50:19,199 --> 01:50:23,079
question who is qualified to make all these distinctions, definitions,

1511
01:50:23,119 --> 01:50:26,880
identifications for the society as a whole has now one

1512
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:35,239
logical answer, namely, namely everyone and the maturity of his

1513
01:50:35,359 --> 01:50:39,000
faculties as a human being. Everyone who has learned to

1514
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:44,279
think rationally and autonomously. What about Yeah? Well what about

1515
01:50:44,279 --> 01:50:48,399
the ones who haven't? Yeah, And that's how you get

1516
01:50:49,760 --> 01:50:50,640
a dictatorship?

1517
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:55,800
Speaker 2: What they if your average country is plummeting?

1518
01:50:57,159 --> 01:51:04,239
Speaker 1: What if this is Somalia? John Stewart Mill's conception of

1519
01:51:04,279 --> 01:51:08,119
the of the rest publica is not the opposite of Plato's.

1520
01:51:09,039 --> 01:51:12,960
The liberal, too, demands the authority of reason, not only

1521
01:51:13,039 --> 01:51:19,319
as an intellectual but also as a political power. Huh okay,

1522
01:51:21,239 --> 01:51:25,960
I was just thinking how the objective the objectivists all,

1523
01:51:26,279 --> 01:51:29,000
you know, say they need a society based on reason,

1524
01:51:29,079 --> 01:51:32,199
where the police would they would be the police would

1525
01:51:32,279 --> 01:51:38,560
enforce reason. I'm not even kidding. I'm not even kidding.

1526
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,159
In Plato, rationality is confined to the small number of

1527
01:51:44,199 --> 01:51:49,319
philosopher kings. In mill every rational human being participates in

1528
01:51:49,359 --> 01:51:53,199
the discussion and decision, but only as a rational being.

1529
01:51:54,399 --> 01:51:58,279
Where society has entered the phase of total administration and indoctrination,

1530
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:02,520
this would be a small indeed, and not necessarily that

1531
01:52:02,560 --> 01:52:04,520
of elected representatives of the people.

1532
01:52:05,319 --> 01:52:06,319
Speaker 2: Huh.

1533
01:52:06,760 --> 01:52:12,199
Speaker 1: Imagine that the problem is not that of an educational dictatorship,

1534
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:15,760
but that of breaking the tyranny of public opinion and

1535
01:52:15,800 --> 01:52:18,279
its makers in the closed society.

1536
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:25,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, public opinion can never really be organic,

1537
01:52:25,159 --> 01:52:30,840
can it? Because public opinion is itself a weird, fucking

1538
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:33,760
nebulous idea.

1539
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 1: Even if you broke it down to like Dunbar's number,

1540
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:42,119
the whatever natural elites or pastors are in that group,

1541
01:52:42,199 --> 01:52:45,479
or who are going to make public opinion, you know,

1542
01:52:45,560 --> 01:52:51,880
the they're they're going to be the leaders. Pretty much

1543
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:56,199
what people say about their governing style. Their governance is

1544
01:52:56,239 --> 01:52:58,399
going to be coming. They're just going to be repeating

1545
01:52:58,399 --> 01:52:58,880
what those men.

1546
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:03,920
Speaker 2: Are saying, yeah, more or less, or basing their opinions

1547
01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:06,520
off of what they were taught from, you know, the

1548
01:53:07,079 --> 01:53:08,359
progenitors of those men.

1549
01:53:09,359 --> 01:53:11,039
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1550
01:53:11,279 --> 01:53:16,359
Speaker 1: However, granted the empirical rationality of the distinction between progress

1551
01:53:16,359 --> 01:53:19,439
and regression, and granted that it may be applicable to

1552
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:25,279
tolerance and may justify strongly discriminatory tolerance on political grounds,

1553
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:28,680
cancelation of the liberal creed of free and equal discussion.

1554
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:35,800
Another impossible consequence would follow. I say that, by virtue

1555
01:53:35,800 --> 01:53:40,039
of its inner logic, withdrawal of tolerance from regressive movements

1556
01:53:40,359 --> 01:53:44,960
and discriminatory tolerance in favor of the progressive tendencies would

1557
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:51,399
be tantamount to the official promotion of subversion. Hume, imagine that.

1558
01:53:51,319 --> 01:53:54,800
Speaker 2: All right, now, he's on to something.

1559
01:53:55,239 --> 01:53:55,520
Speaker 3: Yep.

1560
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:59,399
Speaker 1: The historical calculus of progress, which is actually the calculus

1561
01:53:59,439 --> 01:54:05,439
of the perspective reduction of cruelty, misery suppression, seems to.

1562
01:54:07,159 --> 01:54:08,520
Speaker 2: Such a vagina.

1563
01:54:11,079 --> 01:54:14,479
Speaker 1: Read it again, The historical calculus of progress, which is

1564
01:54:14,479 --> 01:54:18,399
actually the calculus of the perspective reduction of cruelty, misery,

1565
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:24,800
and suppression seems to involve the calculated choice between two

1566
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:27,680
forms of political violence, that on the part of the

1567
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:32,680
legally constituted powers, by their legitimate action or by their

1568
01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:36,600
tacit consent or by their inability to prevent violence, and

1569
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:42,960
that on the part of potentially subversive movements. Moreover, with

1570
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:46,840
respect to the latter, a policy of unequal treatment would

1571
01:54:47,039 --> 01:54:50,520
protect radicalism on the left against that on the right.

1572
01:54:51,960 --> 01:54:56,159
Can the historical Can the historical calculus be reasonably extended

1573
01:54:56,159 --> 01:54:58,920
to the justification of one form of violence or against

1574
01:54:59,079 --> 01:55:05,159
as against another, or better, since justification carries a moral connotation,

1575
01:55:09,359 --> 01:55:14,000
or better, since justification carries a moral connotation, Is there

1576
01:55:14,119 --> 01:55:17,000
historical evidence to the effect that the social origin and

1577
01:55:17,039 --> 01:55:20,239
impetus of violence from among the ruled or the ruling

1578
01:55:20,279 --> 01:55:24,239
classes to the have or the have not, the left

1579
01:55:24,319 --> 01:55:27,800
or the right, is in a demonstrable relation to progress

1580
01:55:28,319 --> 01:55:29,840
as defined above.

1581
01:55:32,399 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 2: I love it, We're getting taken on another wild ride.

1582
01:55:40,239 --> 01:55:43,760
Why here's why you should throw your face into the

1583
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:44,920
brick being thrown at you.

1584
01:55:48,640 --> 01:55:52,199
Speaker 1: With all the qualifications of a hypothesis based on an

1585
01:55:52,239 --> 01:55:56,159
open historical record, it seems that the violence emanating from

1586
01:55:56,159 --> 01:56:00,000
the rebellion of the oppressed classes broke the historical continue

1587
01:56:00,399 --> 01:56:04,840
of injustice, cruelty, and silence for a brief moment, brief

1588
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:07,960
but explosive enough to achieve an increase in the scope

1589
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,159
of freedom and justice and a better and more equitable

1590
01:56:11,199 --> 01:56:15,079
distribution of misery and oppression in a new social system.

1591
01:56:15,479 --> 01:56:21,800
In one word, progress in civilization. Oh, I'm glad he's

1592
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:25,119
bringing these up here. Okay? Good? The English Civil Wars,

1593
01:56:25,279 --> 01:56:28,880
the French Revolution, the Chinese and the Cuban revolutions may

1594
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:33,560
illustrate the hypothesis. In contrast, the one historical change from

1595
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,439
one social system to another marking the beginning of a

1596
01:56:36,479 --> 01:56:40,800
new period in civilization, which was not sparked and driven

1597
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:44,840
by an effective movement from below, namely, the collapse of

1598
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:47,640
the Roman Empire in the West brought about a long

1599
01:56:47,680 --> 01:56:51,439
period of regression for long centuries, until a new, higher

1600
01:56:51,479 --> 01:56:55,680
period of civilization was painfully born in the violence of

1601
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:58,800
the heretic revolts of the thirteenth century and in the

1602
01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:04,239
peasant and laborery vaults of the fourteenth century.

1603
01:57:05,359 --> 01:57:08,079
Speaker 2: That's a very generous interpretation.

1604
01:57:10,199 --> 01:57:13,680
Speaker 1: With respect to historical violence emanating from among ruling classes.

1605
01:57:14,039 --> 01:57:18,720
No such relations to progress seems to obtain the long

1606
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:23,680
series of dynastic and imperialist wars. The liquidation of Spartacus

1607
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:28,560
in Germany in nineteen nineteen. Fascism and Nazism did not break,

1608
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:36,319
but rather tightened than streamline the continuum of suppression. Really,

1609
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:40,520
I guess where that.

1610
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:48,159
Speaker 2: Did not break, but rather tightened in streamlined. Yeah, I

1611
01:57:48,199 --> 01:57:54,079
don't get that. I don't get why he would describe

1612
01:57:54,239 --> 01:58:00,520
Nazism as tightening and streamlined. Yeah, I guess lining the

1613
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:02,159
continuum of suppression.

1614
01:58:03,079 --> 01:58:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1615
01:58:03,279 --> 01:58:07,039
Speaker 2: But if he's if it's meant to be pejorative, then yeah,

1616
01:58:07,039 --> 01:58:08,279
he's giving it more credit.

1617
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:14,640
Speaker 1: I said, emanating from among ruling classes. To be sure,

1618
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:18,079
there is hardly any organized violence from above that does

1619
01:58:18,159 --> 01:58:20,920
not mobilize and activate mass support from below.

1620
01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:24,039
Speaker 2: Oh all right, I see what he's saying.

1621
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:28,560
Speaker 1: The decisive question is on behalf of and in the

1622
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:32,800
interest of, which groups and institutions is such violence released?

1623
01:58:33,279 --> 01:58:38,600
Speaker 2: I mean the National Socialist Party, I mean that's that's

1624
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:44,520
started as grassroots kind of street brawling, right, yeah, like

1625
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:49,560
it didn't really get well, I don't know were there's

1626
01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:53,079
some like old old kaiser Reich types in it from

1627
01:58:53,119 --> 01:58:53,680
the beginning.

1628
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:56,880
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they were all guys who fought world

1629
01:58:57,199 --> 01:58:58,079
in World War One?

1630
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But were they like aristocrats?

1631
01:59:02,600 --> 01:59:03,960
Speaker 1: I mean there were a couple.

1632
01:59:05,319 --> 01:59:08,000
Speaker 2: There were just a couple, not enough to characterize it

1633
01:59:08,039 --> 01:59:09,479
as an aristocratic movement.

1634
01:59:09,920 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 1: I would probably say there may have been a chance

1635
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:18,279
that there were more aristocrats in the KPD. Yeah, yeah, right.

1636
01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:22,359
And the answer is not necessarily expost in the historical

1637
01:59:22,399 --> 01:59:26,279
examples just mentioned. It could be and was anticipated whether

1638
01:59:26,319 --> 01:59:29,640
the movement would serve the revamping of the old order

1639
01:59:30,039 --> 01:59:36,000
or the emergence of the new liberating tolerance then would

1640
01:59:36,079 --> 01:59:39,960
mean intolerance against movements from the right and toleration of

1641
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:44,520
movements from the left. Yes, absolutely.

1642
01:59:46,399 --> 01:59:46,520
Speaker 3: Right.

1643
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:53,319
Speaker 1: There highlight that as to the scope of this tolerance

1644
01:59:53,359 --> 01:59:56,439
and intolerance, it would extend to the stage of action

1645
01:59:56,680 --> 02:00:01,000
as well as of discussion and propaganda, as well as

1646
02:00:01,039 --> 02:00:01,520
of word.

1647
02:00:02,079 --> 02:00:04,479
Speaker 2: And you're seeing that since twenty.

1648
02:00:04,199 --> 02:00:11,880
Speaker 1: Fifteen, since he came down that escalator. Yeah, yep. The

1649
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:15,880
traditional criterion of clear and present danger seems no. We

1650
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:17,880
talk about that, We talk about how people want to

1651
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,600
discount exactly. I mean, who cares. I mean, Trump didn't

1652
02:00:22,600 --> 02:00:25,560
get anything done and couldn't get anything done, But that's

1653
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:27,600
not the point of Trump. That The point of Trump

1654
02:00:27,720 --> 02:00:32,359
is just how he started all this. Yeah, there were

1655
02:00:32,439 --> 02:00:36,800
you know, okay, the Trayvon Martin shooting, well, Occupy Wall

1656
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:40,479
Street and the Trayvon Martin shooting, and then the Michael

1657
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:46,399
Brown shooting, the formation of BLM, which most people don't remember.

1658
02:00:47,079 --> 02:00:50,960
Barack Obama would basically call a terrorist group, the Democrats

1659
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:53,800
would call a terrorist group. And then you get up

1660
02:00:53,800 --> 02:01:00,479
to twenty fifteen and Trump goes down that escalator, start

1661
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:03,720
saying the things that he says, and then it was

1662
02:01:03,800 --> 02:01:05,640
just okay, we have to take sides. Now.

1663
02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:12,199
Speaker 2: I think if Trump were the most competent, most machiavellian politician,

1664
02:01:12,319 --> 02:01:16,600
political actor, power player in the world, that he still

1665
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:18,520
would have wouldn't have been able to do anything.

1666
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:19,039
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1667
02:01:19,239 --> 02:01:23,119
Speaker 2: They they started working on him from the second he

1668
02:01:23,359 --> 02:01:25,720
blew away the primary debates.

1669
02:01:26,039 --> 02:01:27,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1670
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:33,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, when when he acted like a like no one's

1671
02:01:33,279 --> 02:01:37,119
ever seen in you know, in this lifetime and in

1672
02:01:37,159 --> 02:01:40,640
many lifetimes, someone acts like that in a political debate

1673
02:01:40,760 --> 02:01:44,000
in this country. When he started acting like that and

1674
02:01:44,039 --> 02:01:47,600
the people responded to him positively, you know, when a

1675
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:51,039
certain group on the right responded to him positively, the right.

1676
02:01:51,119 --> 02:01:54,720
But basically then they knew that there was something really good,

1677
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:58,760
and then brexits it was another thing. Yeah, but which

1678
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:03,039
really means nothing. I mean, but it was it breaks

1679
02:02:03,079 --> 02:02:06,960
it means basically nothing has meant nothing other than some

1680
02:02:07,439 --> 02:02:09,520
other than symbolism. Pretty much just like Trump.

1681
02:02:10,079 --> 02:02:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, you could have the most the

1682
02:02:13,000 --> 02:02:20,800
most ruthless, ruthless political actors, the highest caliber, and I

1683
02:02:20,840 --> 02:02:23,800
think they still would have ended up like Trump, just

1684
02:02:23,840 --> 02:02:27,359
as effective as Trump and breaks it. Yeah, they were,

1685
02:02:27,359 --> 02:02:29,600
they were, They were ready. They had everything in order

1686
02:02:30,960 --> 02:02:34,359
well before he posed a real threat or while before

1687
02:02:34,399 --> 02:02:35,680
he've got formal power.

1688
02:02:36,399 --> 02:02:38,239
Speaker 1: These people have been doing this for one hundred years.

1689
02:02:38,279 --> 02:02:41,920
They're not stupid. Yeah, all right, let me start that

1690
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:44,560
one again. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance,

1691
02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:47,720
it would extend to the stage of action as well

1692
02:02:47,760 --> 02:02:51,520
as of discussion and propaganda of deed, as well as

1693
02:02:51,560 --> 02:02:55,359
of word. The traditional criterion of clear and present danger

1694
02:02:55,439 --> 02:02:58,439
seems no longer adequate to a stage where the whole

1695
02:02:58,479 --> 02:03:02,039
society is in the situation the theater audience when somebody

1696
02:03:02,079 --> 02:03:06,960
cries fire. It is a situation in which the total

1697
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:11,079
catastrophe could be triggered off any moment, not only by

1698
02:03:11,079 --> 02:03:15,279
a technical error but also by a rational miscalculation of risks,

1699
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:22,600
or by a rash speech of one of the leaders.

1700
02:03:22,600 --> 02:03:26,439
In past, in different circumstances, the speeches of the Fascist

1701
02:03:26,520 --> 02:03:30,479
and Nazi leaders were the immediate prologue to the massacre.

1702
02:03:32,039 --> 02:03:35,199
The distance between the propaganda and the action, between the

1703
02:03:35,359 --> 02:03:39,520
organization and its release on the people had become too short,

1704
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:43,359
But the spreading of the word could have stopped before

1705
02:03:43,399 --> 02:03:46,600
it was too late. If the democratic tolerance had been

1706
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:51,079
withdrawn when the future leaders started their campaign, mankind would

1707
02:03:51,079 --> 02:03:54,159
have had a chance of avoiding Auschwitz in the World War.

1708
02:03:56,760 --> 02:04:03,560
Speaker 2: He sounds like every jew on my timeline.

1709
02:04:06,079 --> 02:04:09,600
Speaker 1: All right, let's keep going. The whole post fascist period

1710
02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:15,000
is one of clear and present danger. Consequently, true pacification

1711
02:04:15,199 --> 02:04:18,720
requires the withdrawal of tolerance before the deed, at the

1712
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:24,359
stage of communication, in word, print and picture. Such extreme

1713
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:28,119
suspension of the right of free speech and free assembly

1714
02:04:28,479 --> 02:04:31,600
is indeed justified only in the whole of a society.

1715
02:04:31,720 --> 02:04:35,239
Only in the whole of a society is in extreme danger.

1716
02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:39,439
I maintain that our society is in such an extreme

1717
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:43,640
emergency situation, and that it has become the normal state

1718
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:44,439
of affairs.

1719
02:04:48,039 --> 02:04:51,159
Speaker 2: Yeah this once you declare a state of emergency, it

1720
02:04:51,199 --> 02:04:52,439
never goes away.

1721
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:58,000
Speaker 1: Different opinions and philosophies can no longer compete peacefully for

1722
02:04:58,079 --> 02:05:02,199
adherence and persuasion on rational grounds. The marketplace of ideas

1723
02:05:02,279 --> 02:05:06,079
is organized and delimited by those who determine the national

1724
02:05:06,119 --> 02:05:11,920
and the individual interest. Hey, I'm back, I'm here, I'm back, we're.

1725
02:05:15,039 --> 02:05:17,399
Speaker 2: The description of the problem is spot on.

1726
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:24,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. In this society for which the ideologists have

1727
02:05:24,600 --> 02:05:28,560
proclaimed the end of ideology, the false consciousness has become

1728
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:32,079
the general consciousness, from the government down to its last

1729
02:05:32,079 --> 02:05:37,560
subject objects. The small and powerless minorities which struggle against

1730
02:05:37,600 --> 02:05:42,479
the false consciousness and its beneficiaries must be helped. Their

1731
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:46,000
continued existence is more important than the preservation of abused

1732
02:05:46,119 --> 02:05:49,600
rights and liberties, which grant constitutional powers to those who

1733
02:05:49,680 --> 02:05:56,359
oppress these minorities. It should be evident by now that

1734
02:05:56,399 --> 02:05:59,079
the exercise of civil rights by those who don't have

1735
02:05:59,640 --> 02:06:02,840
them presupposes to withdrawal of civil rights from those who

1736
02:06:02,880 --> 02:06:06,199
prevent their exercise, and the liberation of the damned of

1737
02:06:06,239 --> 02:06:10,119
the earth presupposed the suppression not only for their old

1738
02:06:10,199 --> 02:06:11,880
but also of their new mass.

1739
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:20,359
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, I'm rock hard again, look me gaining

1740
02:06:20,479 --> 02:06:24,279
my sense of normalcy requires you losing yours.

1741
02:06:26,920 --> 02:06:28,000
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is.

1742
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:31,159
Speaker 2: And more and more people are having less and less

1743
02:06:31,159 --> 02:06:35,880
problem telling people that, which is great because he's absolutely right.

1744
02:06:35,880 --> 02:06:38,359
There is no rational discourse. There hasn't been for a while,

1745
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:42,439
and even when there was, it was artificial in every sense.

1746
02:06:43,439 --> 02:06:46,000
Speaker 1: How can you have a rational discourse with people who

1747
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,359
are I mean, it used to be Oh it was

1748
02:06:48,359 --> 02:06:51,079
someone on Oh, this is just someone on Twitter. Come on,

1749
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:56,680
just turn on the cable news.

1750
02:06:55,960 --> 02:06:58,319
Speaker 2: All right, it's two channels.

1751
02:06:58,359 --> 02:06:58,760
Speaker 3: Man.

1752
02:06:59,439 --> 02:07:00,119
Speaker 2: There's a plu.

1753
02:07:02,239 --> 02:07:08,000
Speaker 1: Right withdrawal of tolerance from regressive movements before they can

1754
02:07:08,039 --> 02:07:12,760
become active in tolerance even toward thought, opinion, and word,

1755
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:17,159
and finally intolerance in the opposite direction, that is, towards

1756
02:07:17,199 --> 02:07:21,119
the self styled conservatives to the political right. These anti

1757
02:07:21,159 --> 02:07:25,560
democratic notions respond to the actual development of the democratic society,

1758
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:28,920
which has destroyed the basis for universal tolerance.

1759
02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:33,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're doing that right now. It's great.

1760
02:07:36,039 --> 02:07:39,760
Speaker 1: The conditions under which tolerance can again become a liberating

1761
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:44,079
and humanizing force have still to be created. When tolerance

1762
02:07:44,119 --> 02:07:47,920
mainly serves the protection and preservation of a repressive society,

1763
02:07:48,199 --> 02:07:51,359
when it serves to neutralize opposition and to render men

1764
02:07:51,479 --> 02:07:55,279
immune against other and better forms of life than tolerance

1765
02:07:55,520 --> 02:08:04,000
has been perverted. I mean you're yeah, I agree, Yeah,

1766
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:05,000
I agree.

1767
02:08:07,239 --> 02:08:11,560
Speaker 2: Only let's let's fucking let's rotate this. Yeah, one hundred

1768
02:08:11,560 --> 02:08:16,039
and eighty degrees. And when this perversion starts in the

1769
02:08:16,079 --> 02:08:20,319
mind of the individual in his consciousness, his needs when hetero,

1770
02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:30,359
when hetero, when heteronom heteron heterononymous, heterononymous. Let's do that again.

1771
02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:32,840
Speaker 1: And when this perversion starts in the mind of the

1772
02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:39,119
individual in his consciousness, his needs when heteronomymous interests occupy

1773
02:08:39,279 --> 02:08:42,840
him before he can experience his servitude, than the efforts

1774
02:08:42,880 --> 02:08:48,479
to counteract his dehumanity. Dehumanization. Dehumanization must begin at the

1775
02:08:48,520 --> 02:08:52,880
place of entrance. There where the where the false consciousness

1776
02:08:52,920 --> 02:08:56,560
takes form, or rather it's systematically formed. It must begin

1777
02:08:56,640 --> 02:09:01,359
with stopping the words and images which feed this conscious.

1778
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:03,880
Speaker 2: That's right, that's why we're going to crack down on disinformation.

1779
02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:06,720
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying.

1780
02:09:07,039 --> 02:09:10,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, planting the idea sees in people's

1781
02:09:10,119 --> 02:09:12,840
head like that's bad and wrong and you shouldn't do it,

1782
02:09:12,920 --> 02:09:16,239
And it goes from there. You go from there too.

1783
02:09:16,399 --> 02:09:17,479
Now you're not allowed to do.

1784
02:09:17,479 --> 02:09:23,800
Speaker 1: It, to be sure, this is censorship, even pre censorship,

1785
02:09:24,079 --> 02:09:27,640
but openly directed against the more or less hidden censorship

1786
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:32,319
that permeates the free media. Where the false consciousness has

1787
02:09:32,359 --> 02:09:36,680
become prevalent and national and popular behavior, it translates itself

1788
02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:42,680
almost immediately into practice. The safe distance between ideology and reality,

1789
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,600
repressive thought and repressive action, between the word of destruction

1790
02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:52,359
and deed of destruction is dangerously shortened. Thus, the breakthrough

1791
02:09:52,399 --> 02:09:55,920
the false consciousness may provide the Archimedean point for a

1792
02:09:56,000 --> 02:10:01,359
larger emancipation at an infinitesimally small spot, to be sure,

1793
02:10:01,680 --> 02:10:04,600
But it is on the enlargement of such small spots

1794
02:10:04,800 --> 02:10:10,479
that the chance of change depends. The forces of emancipation

1795
02:10:10,680 --> 02:10:14,520
cannot be identified with any social class which, by virtue

1796
02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:19,039
of its material condition, is free from false consciousness.

1797
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:21,239
Speaker 2: Going to ameliarize the escaton bro.

1798
02:10:23,479 --> 02:10:27,279
Speaker 1: Today, they are hopelessly dispersed throughout the society, and the

1799
02:10:27,319 --> 02:10:30,920
fighting minorities and isolated groups are often in opposition to

1800
02:10:30,960 --> 02:10:36,039
their own leadership. In the society at large, the mental

1801
02:10:36,079 --> 02:10:41,840
space for denial and reflection must first be recreated. Repulsed

1802
02:10:41,880 --> 02:10:46,479
by the concreteness of the administered society the effort of

1803
02:10:46,520 --> 02:10:51,880
emancipation becomes abstract. It is reduced to facilitating the recognition

1804
02:10:52,199 --> 02:10:55,079
of what is going on, to freeing language from the

1805
02:10:55,079 --> 02:10:59,119
tyranny of the Orwellian syntax and logic, to developing the

1806
02:10:59,239 --> 02:11:09,119
concept that the concepts that comprehend Reality's describing libertarianism more

1807
02:11:09,159 --> 02:11:12,920
than ever, the proposition holds true that progress in freedom

1808
02:11:12,960 --> 02:11:17,199
demands progress in the consciousness of freedom. Where the mind

1809
02:11:17,239 --> 02:11:21,199
has been made into a subject object of politics and policies,

1810
02:11:21,600 --> 02:11:25,720
intellectual autonomy, the realm of pure thought has become a

1811
02:11:25,760 --> 02:11:33,960
matter of political education, or rather counter education. This you

1812
02:11:34,039 --> 02:11:41,600
got anythink, not just just yeah. This means that previously

1813
02:11:41,720 --> 02:11:45,520
neutral value free formal aspects of learning and teaching now

1814
02:11:45,560 --> 02:11:48,159
become on their own grounds and in their own right,

1815
02:11:48,439 --> 02:11:52,720
political learning. To know the facts, the whole truth, and

1816
02:11:52,800 --> 02:12:00,399
to comprehend it is radical criticism throughout intellectual subversion. In

1817
02:12:00,439 --> 02:12:03,000
a world in which the human faculties and needs are

1818
02:12:03,119 --> 02:12:07,439
arrested or perverted, autonomous thinking leads into a perverted world

1819
02:12:08,359 --> 02:12:13,279
contradiction and counter image of the established world of repression.

1820
02:12:15,000 --> 02:12:17,920
I think the world that he is trying to lead

1821
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:21,520
them into is going to be a much more perverted world,

1822
02:12:21,920 --> 02:12:26,079
but I'm using perverted in a much different way.

1823
02:12:26,239 --> 02:12:28,520
Speaker 2: It's going to be a much more annoying world.

1824
02:12:32,479 --> 02:12:36,680
Speaker 1: And this contradiction is not simply stipulated, is not simply

1825
02:12:36,720 --> 02:12:39,720
the product of confused thinking or fantasy, but is the

1826
02:12:39,840 --> 02:12:45,560
logical development of the given the existing world. To the

1827
02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:48,680
degree to which this development is actually impeded by the

1828
02:12:48,680 --> 02:12:51,960
sheer weight of a repressive society and the necessity of

1829
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:57,680
making a living in it, Repression invades the academic enterprise itself,

1830
02:12:58,239 --> 02:13:04,239
even prior to all restrictions on academic freedom. The preempting

1831
02:13:04,239 --> 02:13:11,600
of the mind vitiates, vitiates, vitiates impartiality and objectivity. Unless

1832
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:15,000
the student learns to think in the opposite direction, he

1833
02:13:15,079 --> 02:13:17,920
will be inclined to place the facts into the predominant

1834
02:13:17,960 --> 02:13:19,359
framework of values.

1835
02:13:20,119 --> 02:13:21,800
Speaker 2: What would that look like nowadays?

1836
02:13:24,119 --> 02:13:33,720
Speaker 1: Mean the academy scholarship, i e. The acquisition and communication

1837
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:38,960
of knowledge prohibits the purification and isolation of facts from

1838
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:43,720
the context of the whole truth. An essential part of

1839
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:47,039
the latter is recognition of the frightening extent to which

1840
02:13:47,159 --> 02:13:51,119
history was made and recorded by and for the victors.

1841
02:13:51,560 --> 02:13:55,239
That is, the extent to which history was the development

1842
02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:56,520
of oppression.

1843
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:00,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that needs to be changed, but uh, he'd be

1844
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:03,720
I think you would be extremely happy with how that's

1845
02:14:03,760 --> 02:14:04,560
working out today.

1846
02:14:05,119 --> 02:14:15,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, did you know that Marcuse was? I think

1847
02:14:15,439 --> 02:14:18,039
he was Paul Gottfried's doctoral director.

1848
02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:28,680
Speaker 2: I I believe that. Actually, Yeah, I haven't listened to

1849
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:32,159
Godfried and a long time. He must he must be

1850
02:14:32,239 --> 02:14:33,399
like in his nineties now.

1851
02:14:33,640 --> 02:14:38,560
Speaker 1: No, he's like eighty, he's eighty. But oh but he's sharp. Yeah.

1852
02:14:38,680 --> 02:14:40,640
He was riding a bike like a year and a

1853
02:14:40,680 --> 02:14:42,600
half ago and just got hit by a car and

1854
02:14:42,640 --> 02:14:46,199
he's fine and he's like recovered and everything. And I

1855
02:14:46,199 --> 02:14:49,680
mean that guy's not That guy's not going anywhere man,

1856
02:14:51,920 --> 02:14:55,840
all right. An essential part of the latter is recognition

1857
02:14:55,920 --> 02:14:58,560
of the frightening extent to which history was made and

1858
02:14:58,600 --> 02:15:01,079
recorded by and for the victor. That is, to the

1859
02:15:01,119 --> 02:15:04,159
extent to which history was a development of oppression. And

1860
02:15:04,199 --> 02:15:07,199
this oppression is in the facts, in the facts themselves

1861
02:15:07,279 --> 02:15:11,960
what it establishes. Thus they themselves carry a negative value

1862
02:15:12,000 --> 02:15:14,800
as part and aspect of their facticity.

1863
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:21,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, hell yeah, facts don't care about your feelings. Oh yeah,

1864
02:15:21,279 --> 02:15:22,199
face the wall.

1865
02:15:25,039 --> 02:15:25,439
Speaker 3: All right.

1866
02:15:25,840 --> 02:15:30,199
Speaker 1: To treat the great Crusades against humanity with the same

1867
02:15:30,239 --> 02:15:35,000
impartiality as the desperate struggles for humanity means neutralizing their

1868
02:15:35,119 --> 02:15:41,760
opposite historical function, reconciling the executioners with their victims, distorting

1869
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:48,000
the record. Such spurious neutrality serves to reproduce acceptance of

1870
02:15:48,039 --> 02:15:51,439
the dominion of the victors in the consciousness of man.

1871
02:15:52,479 --> 02:15:57,399
Speaker 2: So getting back to last episode, no, actually, an objective,

1872
02:15:57,920 --> 02:16:01,199
an objective overview of history is not good.

1873
02:16:01,279 --> 02:16:09,600
Speaker 1: Actually yep. Here too, in the education of those who

1874
02:16:09,600 --> 02:16:12,720
are not yet maturely integrated in the mind of the young,

1875
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:16,399
the ground for liberating tolerance is still to be created.

1876
02:16:17,039 --> 02:16:19,560
Speaker 2: That's right, children are our future.

1877
02:16:21,439 --> 02:16:26,279
Speaker 1: Education offers Still another example of spurious abstract tolerance in

1878
02:16:26,319 --> 02:16:29,800
the guise of concreteness and truth. It is epitomized in

1879
02:16:29,880 --> 02:16:37,399
the concept of self actualization, from the permissiveness of all

1880
02:16:37,479 --> 02:16:41,200
sorts of license to the child to the constant psychological

1881
02:16:41,239 --> 02:16:44,399
concern with the personal problems of the student. A large

1882
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:48,399
scale movement is underway against the evils and repression and

1883
02:16:48,440 --> 02:16:50,760
the need for being oneself.

1884
02:16:51,920 --> 02:16:55,159
Speaker 2: Frequently self heavily medicated in all times.

1885
02:16:57,520 --> 02:17:00,360
Speaker 1: Frequently brushed aside is the question as to what has

1886
02:17:00,399 --> 02:17:04,799
to be repressed before one can be a self oneself.

1887
02:17:07,319 --> 02:17:11,479
The individual potential is first a negative one, a portion

1888
02:17:11,600 --> 02:17:19,120
of the potential of his society of aggression, guilt, feeling, ignorance, resentment, cruelty,

1889
02:17:19,959 --> 02:17:26,000
cruelty which vitiate his life instincts. If the identity of

1890
02:17:26,040 --> 02:17:28,799
the self is to be more than the immediate realization

1891
02:17:29,399 --> 02:17:33,360
of this potential, undesirable for the individual as human being,

1892
02:17:33,760 --> 02:17:38,200
then it requires repression and sublimation, conscious transformation.

1893
02:17:42,760 --> 02:17:46,120
Speaker 2: This process involves at each stage SSRIs.

1894
02:17:48,280 --> 02:17:51,280
Speaker 1: This process involves at each stage, to use the ridiculed

1895
02:17:51,399 --> 02:17:57,319
terms which here reveal their succinct concreteness, the negation of

1896
02:17:57,360 --> 02:18:02,920
the negation, mediation of the intermediate. An identity is no

1897
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:08,760
more and no less than this process. These people so much.

1898
02:18:14,520 --> 02:18:19,719
Alienation is the constant and essential element of identity, the

1899
02:18:19,760 --> 02:18:23,360
objective side of the subject, and not as.

1900
02:18:26,040 --> 02:18:32,399
Speaker 2: We identify ourselves through alien through what we are alienated from.

1901
02:18:32,440 --> 02:18:36,760
Speaker 1: For the most part, alienation is the constant and essential

1902
02:18:37,399 --> 02:18:41,440
element of identity, the objective side of the subject, and

1903
02:18:41,479 --> 02:18:44,239
not as it is made to appear today, a disease

1904
02:18:44,639 --> 02:18:51,000
of psychological condition. Freud Well knew the difference between progressive

1905
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:56,399
and regressive, liberating and destructive repression the publicity of self

1906
02:18:56,440 --> 02:18:59,959
actualization promotes the removal of the one and the other.

1907
02:19:00,440 --> 02:19:05,200
It promotes existence in that immediacy, which in a repressive

1908
02:19:05,239 --> 02:19:11,319
society is, to use another Hegelian term, bad immediacy. I'm

1909
02:19:11,319 --> 02:19:13,479
not gonna do I'm not doing German today.

1910
02:19:14,319 --> 02:19:17,000
Speaker 2: Thats mite bark.

1911
02:19:18,959 --> 02:19:22,559
Speaker 1: It isolates the individual from the one dimension where he

1912
02:19:22,639 --> 02:19:26,959
could find himself, from his political existence, which is at

1913
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:29,680
the core of his entire existence.

1914
02:19:30,079 --> 02:19:33,559
Speaker 2: This is why I fucking hate Frankfurt School because it

1915
02:19:33,639 --> 02:19:37,159
is basically just Freud and it's all German. So you

1916
02:19:37,200 --> 02:19:39,920
can you can take probably two thirds of the sentences

1917
02:19:39,959 --> 02:19:44,399
that we read so far and just delete them, and

1918
02:19:44,399 --> 02:19:46,559
then the remaining third is what he was actually trying

1919
02:19:46,600 --> 02:19:47,200
to say.

1920
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:54,479
Speaker 1: Freud Yaqui does some destruction of Freud in part one

1921
02:19:54,479 --> 02:19:57,479
of Imperium that is beautiful and is just a map

1922
02:19:58,319 --> 02:20:05,600
and unbelievable takedown. Instead, it encourages nonconformity and letting go

1923
02:20:05,799 --> 02:20:08,879
in ways which leave the real engines of repression in

1924
02:20:08,920 --> 02:20:13,399
the society entirely intact, which even strengthened these engines by

1925
02:20:13,399 --> 02:20:17,600
substituting the satisfactions of private and personal rebellion for a

1926
02:20:17,680 --> 02:20:22,719
more than private and personal and therefore more authentic opposition.

1927
02:20:24,319 --> 02:20:25,440
Speaker 2: Oh God.

1928
02:20:27,799 --> 02:20:32,559
Speaker 1: The desublimation involved in this sort of self actualization is

1929
02:20:32,600 --> 02:20:36,879
itself repressive inasmuch as it weakens the necessity and the

1930
02:20:36,920 --> 02:20:41,360
power of the intellect, the catalytic force of that unhappy consciousness,

1931
02:20:41,639 --> 02:20:45,120
which does not revel in the archetype, in the archetypal

1932
02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:50,719
personal release of frustration, hopeless resurgence of the id, which

1933
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:54,239
will sooner or later succumb to the omnipresent rationality of

1934
02:20:54,280 --> 02:20:58,239
the administered world, but which recognizes the horror of the

1935
02:20:58,280 --> 02:21:01,879
whole in the most private frustrated and actualizes itself in

1936
02:21:01,920 --> 02:21:05,680
this recognition. Oh fuck yourself so much, man.

1937
02:21:05,920 --> 02:21:12,360
Speaker 2: It's he just fucking freuded up. God, I can't do

1938
02:21:12,479 --> 02:21:14,159
it so bad.

1939
02:21:14,399 --> 02:21:22,360
Speaker 3: Oh oh.

1940
02:21:22,440 --> 02:21:26,520
Speaker 1: The TV show Mash used to push Freud. They would

1941
02:21:26,520 --> 02:21:30,639
bring on this, It would bring on this psychologist every

1942
02:21:30,639 --> 02:21:34,479
once in a while, Sydney, you know, try member. Oh yeah,

1943
02:21:34,120 --> 02:21:37,440
and he would he was like writing letters to Freud.

1944
02:21:37,479 --> 02:21:40,399
He was constantly like, you know, talking, quoting Freud. And

1945
02:21:40,399 --> 02:21:43,280
it's just like, oh God, that show was so bad.

1946
02:21:43,319 --> 02:21:45,440
It was. It was great in the first couple of seasons.

1947
02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:47,920
What was just a comedy. But then Alan all that

1948
02:21:48,000 --> 02:21:53,239
took over, and it was like, oh no, no. I've

1949
02:21:53,280 --> 02:21:57,000
tried to show how the changes in advanced democratic societies

1950
02:21:57,159 --> 02:22:00,719
which have undermined the basis of economic and political liberalism,

1951
02:22:01,040 --> 02:22:06,479
have also altered the liberal function of tolerance. The tolerance,

1952
02:22:06,520 --> 02:22:09,479
which was the great achievement of the liberal era, is

1953
02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:15,280
still professed with, professed, and with strong qualifications practiced, while

1954
02:22:15,319 --> 02:22:19,920
the economic and political process is subjected to an ubiquitous

1955
02:22:20,159 --> 02:22:24,159
and effective administration in accordance with the predominant interests.

1956
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:27,920
Speaker 2: All right, he's he's back to being somewhat understandable.

1957
02:22:30,319 --> 02:22:33,680
Speaker 1: The results is an objective contradiction between the economic and

1958
02:22:33,719 --> 02:22:36,719
political structure on the one side, and the theory and

1959
02:22:36,840 --> 02:22:38,840
practice of toleration on the other.

1960
02:22:40,159 --> 02:22:41,040
Speaker 2: I can get down with that.

1961
02:22:42,079 --> 02:22:46,479
Speaker 1: The altered social structure tends to weaken the effectiveness of

1962
02:22:46,559 --> 02:22:51,879
tolerance towards dissenting and oppositional movements and to strengthen conservative

1963
02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:53,440
and reactionary forces.

1964
02:22:55,159 --> 02:22:57,000
Speaker 2: Knowing what we know now, not so much.

1965
02:22:58,760 --> 02:23:04,079
Speaker 1: Equality of tolerance becomes abstract spurious with the actual decline

1966
02:23:04,079 --> 02:23:08,719
of dissenting forces in the society. The opposition is insulated

1967
02:23:08,879 --> 02:23:13,399
in small and frequently antagonistic groups who even were tolerated

1968
02:23:13,440 --> 02:23:16,239
within the narrow limits set by the hierarchical structure of

1969
02:23:16,280 --> 02:23:19,639
society are powerless while they keep within their limits, I

1970
02:23:19,639 --> 02:23:20,920
mean one hundred percent.

1971
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:22,559
Speaker 2: He's describing the right.

1972
02:23:22,920 --> 02:23:27,840
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, but the tolerance shown to them is

1973
02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:34,040
deceptive and promotes coordination and on the firm foundations of

1974
02:23:34,079 --> 02:23:39,000
a coordinated society all but closed against qualitative change. Tolerance

1975
02:23:39,040 --> 02:23:44,120
itself serves to contain such change rather than to promote it. Yeah,

1976
02:23:44,200 --> 02:23:50,479
I mean, this is just more chomps what Chompsky eventually

1977
02:23:50,879 --> 02:23:53,159
really starts talking about.

1978
02:23:52,760 --> 02:23:56,639
Speaker 2: I forget who the organizer was, but the guy that

1979
02:23:56,760 --> 02:24:01,559
started Lollapalooza back in nineteen ninety one and originally intended

1980
02:24:01,600 --> 02:24:02,559
it to be like this.

1981
02:24:02,920 --> 02:24:04,879
Speaker 1: Was it Perry Farrel? Was it for Perry fell from

1982
02:24:05,159 --> 02:24:06,719
Jamee's addiction or was it someone else?

1983
02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:11,760
Speaker 2: I think it was somebody else. I'm pretty sure it

1984
02:24:11,799 --> 02:24:12,520
was a Jewish guy.

1985
02:24:12,639 --> 02:24:14,959
Speaker 1: But uh, it was a Jewish guy.

1986
02:24:15,040 --> 02:24:17,680
Speaker 2: All right, Maybe maybe it was him. I don't remember

1987
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:21,799
his name, but within like it started in nineteen ninety one,

1988
02:24:21,879 --> 02:24:25,520
By nineteen ninety two, there were t shirt kios selling

1989
02:24:25,719 --> 02:24:29,760
selling t shirts for like twenty three dollars, which at

1990
02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:33,200
the time was ridiculous, and the bands weren't allowed to undercut.

1991
02:24:33,639 --> 02:24:36,600
There were you know, you weren't allowed to bring blankets

1992
02:24:36,600 --> 02:24:39,200
in because they wanted to charge you for their own plank.

1993
02:24:39,760 --> 02:24:43,600
It within a year, so you still had this this

1994
02:24:43,760 --> 02:24:49,000
idea of you know, this rebellious, this rebellious festival full

1995
02:24:49,040 --> 02:24:53,120
of you know, anti corporate you know, all these anti

1996
02:24:53,159 --> 02:24:58,200
corporate actors, and but it existed within the framework of

1997
02:24:58,280 --> 02:24:59,319
everything that they hated.

1998
02:25:00,319 --> 02:25:06,719
Speaker 1: I was at one, two and three. Yeah. Yeah, the

1999
02:25:06,760 --> 02:25:10,200
first year was great. The first year was fantastic. Yeah.

2000
02:25:10,239 --> 02:25:12,479
After that it was just like, yeah, I mean.

2001
02:25:14,399 --> 02:25:17,000
Speaker 2: It still looked great, Like looking at the videos from

2002
02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:18,559
back in the day, it still looked amazing.

2003
02:25:18,639 --> 02:25:21,040
Speaker 1: But well the bands were great and everything. But you know,

2004
02:25:21,040 --> 02:25:24,680
it's just like, yeah, but it did. It was like

2005
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:28,000
it was sort of like it sort of wanted it

2006
02:25:28,200 --> 02:25:31,319
to be like the Agora. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean

2007
02:25:31,319 --> 02:25:35,120
it just yeah, yeah, I mean ten dollars waters and

2008
02:25:35,159 --> 02:25:41,120
stuff like that. Eventually within a year. But the tolerance

2009
02:25:41,159 --> 02:25:43,879
shown to them as acceptive and promotes coordination and on

2010
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:47,360
the firm foundation of a coordinator society all but closed

2011
02:25:47,440 --> 02:25:51,360
against qualitative change. Tolerance itself serves to contain such change,

2012
02:25:51,440 --> 02:25:53,040
rather than to promote it.

2013
02:25:53,200 --> 02:25:57,120
Speaker 2: These yeah, think of lollapalooza, these things.

2014
02:25:57,959 --> 02:26:00,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just looked it up real quick. They do.

2015
02:26:01,079 --> 02:26:06,319
At least Wikipedia calls Perry Ferrell the founder. These same

2016
02:26:06,399 --> 02:26:10,639
conditions render the critique of such tolerance abstract and academic,

2017
02:26:10,959 --> 02:26:15,520
and the proposition that the balance between tolerance, the tolerance

2018
02:26:15,559 --> 02:26:18,760
towards the right and toward the left, would have to

2019
02:26:18,760 --> 02:26:22,280
be radically redressed in order to restore the liberating function

2020
02:26:22,360 --> 02:26:29,559
of tolerance becomes only an unrealistic speculation. Indeed, such a

2021
02:26:29,639 --> 02:26:33,040
redressing seems to be tantamounts to the establishment of a

2022
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:38,600
right of resistance to the point of subversion. Yeah. Yeah,

2023
02:26:38,639 --> 02:26:46,920
so you have to basically allow one of those groups

2024
02:26:47,840 --> 02:26:53,319
to side with the state and then you can control them.

2025
02:26:54,120 --> 02:26:58,479
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you ask any liberal what their ideal,

2026
02:26:59,440 --> 02:27:03,399
I mean, where their definition of tolerances it would they

2027
02:27:03,719 --> 02:27:08,680
would probably say that it includes you know, movements, subversive movements,

2028
02:27:08,799 --> 02:27:13,719
which is, you know, in and of itself leftist and

2029
02:27:13,920 --> 02:27:19,879
anti rightist. No, it is you know. They would also

2030
02:27:19,920 --> 02:27:25,360
say that they would tolerate, you know, activism towards a

2031
02:27:25,479 --> 02:27:28,639
return to tradition and a return to uh you know,

2032
02:27:28,760 --> 02:27:31,000
homogeneity and all that, but only up to a point

2033
02:27:31,040 --> 02:27:32,239
where you used to Hitler.

2034
02:27:32,639 --> 02:27:37,520
Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean you you're a an iron kingdom.

2035
02:27:38,520 --> 02:27:43,440
More so in the twenties, the existing government and Hindenburg

2036
02:27:43,520 --> 02:27:47,120
and everything was I mean, they were tolerance of the left,

2037
02:27:47,159 --> 02:27:50,000
but they were more aligned with the right.

2038
02:27:50,680 --> 02:27:50,920
Speaker 2: Yep.

2039
02:27:51,239 --> 02:27:55,040
Speaker 1: So the the real revolution you would call the real

2040
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:58,280
revolutionaries would be coming from the left, and that would

2041
02:27:58,319 --> 02:27:59,399
be the k KPD.

2042
02:28:00,280 --> 02:28:00,520
Speaker 2: Yep.

2043
02:28:04,440 --> 02:28:07,840
Speaker 1: There is not there cannot be any such right for

2044
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:11,440
any group or individual against the constitutional government sustained by

2045
02:28:11,440 --> 02:28:16,040
a majority of the population. But I believe that there

2046
02:28:16,120 --> 02:28:19,799
is a natural right of resistance for oppressed and overpowered

2047
02:28:19,879 --> 02:28:23,760
minorities to use extra legal means if the legal ones

2048
02:28:23,799 --> 02:28:25,239
have proved to be inadequate.

2049
02:28:26,360 --> 02:28:29,280
Speaker 2: All right, you heard him, did he?

2050
02:28:29,680 --> 02:28:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, but I wonder what he would when he's

2051
02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:37,920
looking at this, if he were to see, now, what

2052
02:28:37,959 --> 02:28:42,520
would his opinion be of what is happening and the

2053
02:28:42,600 --> 02:28:47,040
fact that it's actually promoted from on high.

2054
02:28:47,559 --> 02:28:53,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you could probably there's probably more than

2055
02:28:53,479 --> 02:28:56,760
a handful of people that are directly influenced by Marcuse

2056
02:28:56,959 --> 02:29:01,399
on the left that you could kind of see that

2057
02:29:01,440 --> 02:29:05,479
they're in lockstep with whatever they're told to be Yep.

2058
02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:15,559
Whether that's whether they're doing it grudgingly or whether they're skeptical,

2059
02:29:16,040 --> 02:29:16,520
I don't know.

2060
02:29:20,079 --> 02:29:22,520
Speaker 1: Law and order are always in everywhere, the law and

2061
02:29:22,680 --> 02:29:26,959
order which protect the established hierarchy. It is nonsensical to

2062
02:29:27,040 --> 02:29:30,280
invoke the absolute authority of this law and this order

2063
02:29:30,319 --> 02:29:33,360
against those who suffer from it and struggle against it,

2064
02:29:33,879 --> 02:29:37,440
not for personal advantages and revenge, but for their share

2065
02:29:37,479 --> 02:29:43,559
of humanity. There is no other judge over them than

2066
02:29:43,600 --> 02:29:49,040
the constituted authorities, the police, and their own conscience. If

2067
02:29:49,079 --> 02:29:51,920
they use violence, they do not start a new chain

2068
02:29:51,959 --> 02:29:55,040
of violence, but try to break an established one.

2069
02:29:56,159 --> 02:29:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

2070
02:29:59,159 --> 02:30:08,440
Speaker 1: Hold on, someone send me it, Ryan Dawson Bell, Well,

2071
02:30:08,520 --> 02:30:12,120
let me read that again, because that's that's a good one.

2072
02:30:12,799 --> 02:30:15,440
If they use violence, they do not start a new

2073
02:30:15,559 --> 02:30:18,840
chain of violence, but try to break an established one.

2074
02:30:21,319 --> 02:30:24,360
Speaker 2: Does that mean violence is permissible in all instances?

2075
02:30:26,399 --> 02:30:34,000
Speaker 1: Well, only from one group, I'm sorry, since they will

2076
02:30:34,040 --> 02:30:36,879
be punished, they know the risk and when they are

2077
02:30:36,879 --> 02:30:40,520
willing to take it. No third person, and least of

2078
02:30:40,600 --> 02:30:44,639
all the educator and intellectual, has a right to to

2079
02:30:44,760 --> 02:30:46,000
preach them abstention.

2080
02:30:49,559 --> 02:30:53,840
Speaker 2: Hey, I mean to their credit, like actual Marxists, actual

2081
02:30:53,920 --> 02:30:59,040
communists have no problem calling calling the pacifist a liberal.

2082
02:30:59,639 --> 02:31:04,879
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, I mean yeah, what was that

2083
02:31:04,879 --> 02:31:07,760
that one piece of graffiti that was making it around

2084
02:31:09,280 --> 02:31:12,479
Liberals get the rope too, Yeah yeah, I had with

2085
02:31:12,600 --> 02:31:13,680
a hammer and sickle on it.

2086
02:31:14,319 --> 02:31:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2087
02:31:16,920 --> 02:31:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. If only there were more of them like that.

2088
02:31:21,000 --> 02:31:23,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's a lot of people from our side

2089
02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:29,360
came to understand just how useless and actually dangerous liberalism

2090
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:34,760
and classical liberalism is from like from neo reactionary, from

2091
02:31:34,760 --> 02:31:37,200
like Italian elitists and everything. And I think we both

2092
02:31:37,239 --> 02:31:43,239
came to it from like reading Lenin. Yeah we can't.

2093
02:31:44,360 --> 02:31:48,040
We finished reading Lenin and we're like, oh, oh, those

2094
02:31:48,079 --> 02:31:52,639
guys kind of go those guys are useless. Those guys

2095
02:31:53,360 --> 02:31:56,200
they're not only useless, they're kind of productive. Holy shit.

2096
02:31:56,399 --> 02:32:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh atross around our neck.

2097
02:32:02,399 --> 02:32:04,559
Speaker 1: So what do you what do you think of this one?

2098
02:32:05,319 --> 02:32:09,920
Speaker 2: That was good? I I I love getting into uh,

2099
02:32:10,360 --> 02:32:16,079
getting into dialectical materialism. I hate Freud, and I love

2100
02:32:16,159 --> 02:32:18,840
that he finally he finally said it. We need to

2101
02:32:18,840 --> 02:32:22,319
tolerate violence from the left, and we need to not

2102
02:32:22,440 --> 02:32:23,879
tolerate violence from the right.

2103
02:32:24,559 --> 02:32:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would rather they just speak the truth.

2104
02:32:29,440 --> 02:32:32,280
I mean, that's the Yeah, it's a great thing about

2105
02:32:32,479 --> 02:32:35,879
people in the Frankfurt school and you know Marxist Leninis.

2106
02:32:36,319 --> 02:32:39,719
They they're going to tell you exactly, You're not going

2107
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:44,600
to question what they believe. Yeah, yep. Where you know

2108
02:32:44,719 --> 02:32:49,399
people who may have more right wing tendencies than say

2109
02:32:49,760 --> 02:32:54,639
like Glenn Beck, I have to hide them because yeah

2110
02:32:54,639 --> 02:32:58,040
they uh yeah, yeah, because.

2111
02:33:00,399 --> 02:33:05,559
Speaker 2: They get their their material material condition is contingent on

2112
02:33:05,719 --> 02:33:07,920
pleasing their liberal overlords.

2113
02:33:08,079 --> 02:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, classical liberal overlords and neo liberal overlords.

2114
02:33:14,120 --> 02:33:16,239
Speaker 2: Yep, don't get canceled.

2115
02:33:18,200 --> 02:33:22,040
Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's I understand why Owen Benjamin

2116
02:33:22,079 --> 02:33:24,520
went out there and he has eighty chickens and ten

2117
02:33:24,600 --> 02:33:26,840
goats and all these cows and everything like that.

2118
02:33:26,959 --> 02:33:27,280
Speaker 2: He is.

2119
02:33:28,799 --> 02:33:33,159
Speaker 1: Everything. If it all got taken away from him, even

2120
02:33:33,159 --> 02:33:39,719
if he couldn't spend paper, still live, still survive. Yeah.

2121
02:33:40,840 --> 02:33:45,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. I Actually, my my cousin who's in my in

2122
02:33:45,440 --> 02:33:49,120
my wedding party, he texted me today is like, hey, man, like,

2123
02:33:49,159 --> 02:33:53,559
should I start thinking about like you know, forming alliances

2124
02:33:53,600 --> 02:33:56,000
and like getting to know my neighbors and stalking up

2125
02:33:56,000 --> 02:33:59,559
on Ammo? Because thanks right now? Really fucked and I

2126
02:33:59,559 --> 02:34:01,879
don't know how high or drunk he was at the time,

2127
02:34:02,000 --> 02:34:05,680
but I was like, man, we'll be fine, Like, we

2128
02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:06,639
will be fine.

2129
02:34:09,040 --> 02:34:11,840
Speaker 1: You didn't want to you don't want to break it

2130
02:34:11,879 --> 02:34:12,200
to them.

2131
02:34:12,600 --> 02:34:15,639
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's the uh, that's the difference between online

2132
02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:18,840
me and real life met. I know that at least

2133
02:34:18,920 --> 02:34:21,959
where I'm at, I have a good support network I have.

2134
02:34:22,600 --> 02:34:27,040
I'm pretty secure in my Uh. It's like ship would

2135
02:34:27,040 --> 02:34:29,440
really have to go down for me to be in

2136
02:34:29,479 --> 02:34:33,479
any any real danger of starvation or going to jail

2137
02:34:33,559 --> 02:34:37,639
or anything like that, which it may very well, but

2138
02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:39,920
at the end of the day, I'll be fine.

2139
02:34:40,600 --> 02:34:40,840
Speaker 3: Mh.

2140
02:34:41,360 --> 02:34:44,200
Speaker 2: I think. I think if you're watching this show, you

2141
02:34:44,239 --> 02:34:47,000
already kind of have that in your in your mind.

2142
02:34:48,280 --> 02:34:51,280
You know, the the the trip wires that need to

2143
02:34:51,280 --> 02:34:54,600
happen before you start really freaking out. And I don't

2144
02:34:54,600 --> 02:34:55,520
think we're there yet.

2145
02:34:56,000 --> 02:34:59,559
Speaker 1: No, No, we're not there yet, but I know what

2146
02:34:59,600 --> 02:35:00,200
it looks like.

2147
02:35:00,879 --> 02:35:02,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yep.

2148
02:35:02,440 --> 02:35:05,719
Speaker 1: To study, if anybody wants to go study, don't ask

2149
02:35:05,719 --> 02:35:11,239
me for book recommendations. Steady Yugoslavia sided places like that, Yep.

2150
02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:14,959
Speaker 2: I mean we can draw a lot on history and

2151
02:35:15,079 --> 02:35:19,000
we can kind of you know, parse things out a

2152
02:35:19,159 --> 02:35:22,959
priority with everything that's going on right now, you know,

2153
02:35:23,719 --> 02:35:29,760
foreign policy wise, domestically. But I think by and large,

2154
02:35:29,840 --> 02:35:35,520
if you're not in a highly populated urban area that

2155
02:35:35,760 --> 02:35:40,479
with you know, less than favorable demographics, you'll probably be fine.

2156
02:35:41,120 --> 02:35:44,360
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, working on Uh even where I am right

2157
02:35:44,360 --> 02:35:46,079
now is a little too much for me. Working on

2158
02:35:46,120 --> 02:35:52,959
getting out Yep. We're going to get a little more. Yeah,

2159
02:35:52,840 --> 02:35:57,680
h the potential place. You're gonna have to know exactly

2160
02:35:57,680 --> 02:36:02,840
where that is to even find it.

2161
02:36:02,840 --> 02:36:03,680
Speaker 2: It looks amazing.

2162
02:36:04,000 --> 02:36:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh man, But all right, why don't you

2163
02:36:09,120 --> 02:36:11,479
talk about t L E or whatever you want to

2164
02:36:11,520 --> 02:36:12,000
talk about.

2165
02:36:12,920 --> 02:36:15,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about t Luck. Those guys.

2166
02:36:16,799 --> 02:36:21,360
Speaker 1: Those guys are there's something wrong with them sometimes. Yeah,

2167
02:36:21,440 --> 02:36:24,680
this is one episode they got Donald Trump on there

2168
02:36:24,760 --> 02:36:28,000
and like Tucker Harles, the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

2169
02:36:29,159 --> 02:36:32,159
Speaker 2: I'll give your audience a stick peek where we're going

2170
02:36:32,200 --> 02:36:38,319
to get to the manisphere. Oh my god, we're gonna

2171
02:36:38,360 --> 02:36:43,239
be talking about the linear man doing everything in a

2172
02:36:43,399 --> 02:36:45,959
straight line.

2173
02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:51,719
Speaker 1: At least it'll be straight all right, man, Thank you

2174
02:36:51,840 --> 02:36:54,040
very much, thanks for having me. Thank Gar