Speaker 1: What he's up, Fellow sick goes, I am Damn Valley
coming at you with the one, the only, the lenary,
this certified man tap with this coo hoo comorn podcast.
Mister Grant, here's we are here to draft the NBA
stars that are most likely to be traded. Next. I'm
gonna throw it to Grant to basically just explain this.
But this is an exercise that I think some people
will consider a quickbait, and I guess it sort of is.
But this is the convert These are the conversations that
are happening around the league every single day. As Nate
Duncan likes to say this, like people, it's it is clickbait,
like this is the clickbaity, But shout out to think
subscriber Tom or the one who asked for something like this.
We're gonna put kind of a different spin on it.
But these are the conversations that are just happening around
the league NonStop. It doesn't matter what time of the
year it is, right.
Speaker 2: Grant, Well, I mean no, it doesn't matter what time
of year it is. And like it's actually it's kind
of you'd be so well, I'll put it this way, like,
yespn's got an article out today. I think it's Windhorse
and Bon Temps talking about like, yeah, the playoffs are coming,
but everyone's just discussing free agency, and like the thrust
of that article is that is that free agency is
going to be terrible, But it just underscores the idea
that like, oh right, yeah, the play we should be
caring about who's going to avoid the play in and
who's climbing into the sixth spot or whatever. It's like
now the front offices are just all focused on the
transactional side, which of course, but even now like this
is so yeah, it's it's it's what fans are interested in,
and it's what front offices are actually doing as their
teams are trying to like you know, settle playoff position.
So it'll it's appropriate.
Speaker 1: If you haven't skipped the intro, let us know your
top five stars in the comment section or in our
discordinateks to the podcasting through the description that you think
are going to be traded next. Before we do that, though,
let's spend what do you think, like sixty or seventy
five minutes on Lebron versus steven A. How long? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Could we could we that be rate just not enough
oxygen has been given to to to the hottest beef round.
Speaker 1: Would you be able to explain to the kids what
it is that we're actually doing here though.
Speaker 2: What are we doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, Basically we are going to go back and forth.
Dan and I will each draft essentially five players. Hopefully
there'll be some sniping like you know, oh that was
my second pick and Dan took him, you know, before
I was ready or whatever.
Speaker 1: I by sending you my fake orders.
Speaker 2: Yeah you really, you've been This has been a long
con by you over the last thirty six hours to
really throw off my draft strategy. So we are drafting stars.
The definition for that is fairly loose, but it's like,
if you have any doubt about whether this guy's a star,
you probably shouldn't pick him. So it's like, yeah, he's
been an All Star at some point. Actually we were
joking before. You might just say, if he's subject to
the player Participation policy, then it's a it's a safe
pick because he's been an All Star or All NBA
or an award winner or whatever at some point in
the last what three years, So you know, it's it's
a fairly loose definition, but it's like the names, as
you'll see, are fairly big. And then the idea is
we didn't put a specific timeline on it. We are
just trying to guess the next star to be traded.
So an ideal number one pick is is a huge
name that is the next name traded. So like, great,
if it's this offseason, that that should be the goal.
But we're going for the nearest point in time from
now that someone's going to be traded, and so maybe
a couple of these will extend into you know, next
next offseason or next trade deadline. Maybe neither. Some of
these guys we pick and will not be traded at all.
That makes it a bad pick, but it is also
something we can kind of keep track of over the
next you know, however, many months, to see like how
our teams fared, how our picks did relative to our
draft slots.
Speaker 1: I guess we should bookmark this because it'd be fun
to around the same time next year to see how
we fared, like through the offseason and that the twenty
twenty sixth trade death who's still on the team. That
was very well put. The only thing I would add,
and it's more of a question or I'll tell you
how I did it. Whereas but to use an example
of just like Drew Holliday will qualify for this exercise,
like if I think he's gonna be moved sooner, but
I don't think it's because that other teams want him
or he has the leverage, like it's not because oh
he's coming up on a new deal or they got
a crossroads, which it's the Celtics are looking to get
out of the second apron or shape and or shape
their luxury tax bill. I default to just like the
higher stakes or the higher profile situations than that.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's your strategy, Dan. I'm not gonna
tell you how to do your draft.
Speaker 1: Yours is just gonna be filled with all these guys
that you think are just gonna be like salary times.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I guess what I would say is, uh,
first of all, I I Holidays maybe one of those
guys where he's on my long list for sure. He's
maybe one of those guys where it's like, is he
a star? Though it would be would be one concern,
but he would fit into as would several other Celtics
potentially the like a possibility of being moved like pretty
soon like that, like so that that would make him
a better pick, right, like if if anybody you think
might change teams via trade this summer is a good pick,
so Holiday would fit into that category.
Speaker 1: I did definitely look at this through like a twenty
and twenty like by the end of but by the
twenty twenty six deadline, like Lens was kind of But
I also recognize that some years are a little bit
lighter on the star trades than others, and so like
twenty seven and beyond like does make some sense to
consider as well. Yeah, are you ready to get started.
Speaker 2: Let's draft.
Speaker 1: We didn't determine who gets the number one picks, and
you did the explanation. I will allow you the number
one pick. And since we're both going to have the
same number one pick, I kind don't think that it matters.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, this is a gift to me, Like
so it there's only one player in consideration here who
like has in terms of a trade possibility, more than
speculation attached to him, which is which is Kevin Durant.
And and that's he has to be my first pick.
And that's because following maybe being shopped, definitely being shopped.
At the trade deadline, things fell apart with him and
the Suns. There were reports that the two parties will
work together to find a destination after the season. So
it's just I mean, it's just it's laid out there
for us, like he's going to be moved, Like, I
don't know what. I wouldn't put a percentage chance on it,
but I would just ask you, like, will what will
your reaction be if Kevin Durant is on the Suns
to start the twenty five to twenty six season.
Speaker 1: I guess at this point nothing that involves Kevin Durant
should shock me. But I'd be pretty surprised if he
is still a member of the Suns, given how openly
not only that they shopped him, but how openly he
talked about it and acknowledged that he was that he
was surprised by it. And then I think the final
clue is just Brian. We know it was one of
the most plugging guys around the league, but he doesn't
say things unless they're really gonna happen, or he'll let
you know after the fact. He said that they're gonna
work together to find a trade and so this was like,
what what's the percent chance that you would give Kevin
Red of still being on the Suns next season.
Speaker 2: Five ten? If you want to be I mean, yeah, no,
It's like I guess like if you told me kd
was on the Suns to start next season, like all
of my questions would be some version of like, well, god, damn,
how did they trade for Lebron or like how how
did they get Steph like you know, something insane like that,
where it's well, they get big, they flipped it and
they're like what do we got to do to keep
him happy or something? Or like what they get for
Devin Booker when they shipped them out because they chose
KD over you know, something completely like off the rails
like that.
Speaker 1: What do you think they're going to target in a
Durant trade.
Speaker 2: That's trying to like get inside the Soun's thinking is, well, actually,
is it that hard? Because what they'll target, I guess
is someone that's like in his prime or someone's that
are in their primes now that can help the team
win because there's no incentive to lose unless he goes
to Houston in a deal that gets you those picks
back to where you actually do you know, you get
something by by stripping the roster down and losing games
like it. I just it's hard to envision the Suns
based on what they've done since Mattishbia became the owner
and what he said, like within the last handful of
weeks about not wanting to rebuild, and like nobody nobody's
interested in that. Like, it would be shocking to me
if they traded Durant for like a package of picks,
and like I mean still then you're still taking back
a huge amount of salary anyway, So like I would
assume they would want that salary to be like hugely
productive players that could help you win now and keep
Devin Booker from say like, Okay, I need to get
out of here.
Speaker 1: Which I think dovetails nicely with my number one overall pick.
This goes against the grain of reporting. I'm taking Devin Booker.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: Here's my thing. All the reporting says he doesn't want
to leave Phoenix. You just mentioned what Matti Spia says
about their never trading Devin Booker. They're not going to rebuild.
I do not see a scenario where you sit there
and say oh, they got a return off of Kevin
Durant that makes it worthwhile for Devin Booker to stay
in Phoenix. There is you need to get either someone
who you can't even say keeps open your title window
but actually opens it right away because it's not open
right now. That's with Kevin Rant, or you need to
get a package of picks that you can then immediately
flip and be prepared to outbid teams for a player
that would open your title window. And I think this
is I don't view this as a risk solely because
I think that Devin Booker is one hundred second retire
in Phoenix. I'm sure he would prefer to never play
for another team. I look at it more so through
the contract where it's okay, he has three years, one
seventy five point four million dollars left, so it feels
like we'd have another season before. Maybe he just naturally
applies pressure to the organization. And we know, based off
at least what the Sons have said, they're not going
to be the ones to initiate this. This isn't gonna
be a Mavericks with Luka Danci or even kind of
the Kings with Dearron Fox a little bit. So that's
where the risk is. But if I'm Devin Booker, I'm
in the thick of my prime. I watch how the
past couple of seasons have gone. I like, short of
them trading Kevin Durant for someone who is better than
Kevin Durant, I don't know how that doesn't immediately start
the Devin Booker clock. And so the risk might be, oh, again,
that's a twenty twenty six offseason thing, not even a
deadline thing. But the Sun situation is just so hopeless
that this is the pick I'm going with. So I'm
swinging on Devin Booker as my first.
Speaker 2: I think that's totally difficult. Like I think there's a
real scenario where the second Durant is traded, Booker goes
to the front office and says, like, all right, I'm out,
and so then like then then they have to just
it's got to happen then or it gets really ugly.
So like these could these might just be the next
two in order because one's gonna trigger the other.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I factored into, and maybe they
can do this with Durant. I always just assume that
it's not at least as possible. Devin Booker, I think
is the better. Is the player that's going to be
more suited to getting you back your own picks from Houston,
for sure. The fact that that's in play maybe makes
it even more likely that you would move on from
Devin Booker sooner after a Kevin Durant trade.
Speaker 2: There's no scenario where this happens in the reverse order though,
right where it's like, unless it's just the Suns had
been planning to blow it up all along and the
Booker move with Houston materializes first. But like, Booker is
there until Durant is not, right, like Durant has to
be the precursor move.
Speaker 1: I think, what I I'm afraid of it this way. I
think it's way more likely that Kevin Durant is on
the Phoenix Suns next year than Devin Booker gets traded
before Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, I think that's right. All right, So
I got another pick here. I we've talked about this
guy and and kind of well, I don't know him
in hawt Is too. Maybe that's accurate. I got to picky, honest,
and that depends largely on another playoff disappointment, and it
depends on like most of the reporting not being wrong,
but like the circumstances around it changing because he has
basically like applied pressure in the off season, gotten the
Bucks to make some moves. Doesn't really ever, you know,
agitate during the year. I think we get into this offseason.
I'm not sold on the Bucks being more than like
maybe they sneak out of the first round or whatever.
I think that's kind of realistically, I think that's just
about as far as they can get, especially like who
knows what Dame now, like maybe maybe even a winning
around is is like ambitious and given how long he's
been there, given just you know, you look at the
flexibility for this team. We have talked about this recently
is just like it's just diminishing, you know. They they
have so much money wrapped up in a couple guys.
I don't think Kuzma helps them. I think Brook Lopez'
free agency is going to be interesting, so I think
it has to be honest and and weirdly like I
still feel like less certain about that. Then There's probably
been three or three to five instances over the last
couple of years where it seemed much more likely that
he was gonna be gone, But I still feel like
he has to be the pick, just because, like, I mean,
how long is this going to go? Really like the
Bucks are very much like tailing off, and I think
he's gonna want to He's finally gonna, like, not politely,
but like professionally make it clear to the front office, like, okay,
guys that you had a long runway it's time.
Speaker 1: I struggled with him for a couple of reasons, and
I think the biggest one is, if I'm the Buck,
I'm not even thinking about this until Yannis pushes for it,
right And because you can't your draft picks are so
kind of spread out. There's no Suns in Houston situation
where you could trade Giannis, get back a good chunk
of your own draft and rebuild that way. And I
just wonder if unless and I also kind of wondered,
wouldn't it be a chance that Damian Millard gets moved
first because the Bucks are either trying to maximize what's
going on with Giannis or just Dame just decide like
it's not working out for we hear them approaching the
end of my contract, and you know they're gonna get
hosed in negotiations, but then that is the impetus for Yiannis.
Then I really struggled with him because I think the
Bucks are at a major inflection point following this Dame
injury specifically, and I think you and I probably would
have agreed that how likely were they to win a
championship at full strength this year? Certainly more likely with if.
Speaker 2: They was going to be healthy.
Speaker 1: So this was always going to be tough. I just
the timeline with me when we're trying when you factor
in the imminence if we had said by twenty twenty seven,
I'm not even like the twenty seven deadline. I won't
even second guess this as things lay now. But because
we're trying to focus on, like the the actual timeline
of it, I didn't know where to put him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough, like you certainly should as the Bucks
try to move Dame first, I just don't know. I
don't know how much value he has. I'm gonna hopefully
here we have the what are his years and dollars left?
I know we get up into the sixties towards the
end of this current contract, But like I given this
you know, like this isn't necessarily a type of injury
that's gonna be like recurring. So two years, one hundred
and twelve point six million, gonna make fifty four next year,
fifty eight and a half the following year. That's thirty
basically thirty five percent of the cap both seasons, which
is a player option that second that that last year,
Like I'm not sure who's like kicking the door down
for that, and so, like, while I agree that Dame,
you should you should do everything before you trade Giannis
as the Bucks, like Giannis being traded has to be
the last resort and or the thing that happens when
he tells you it needs to happen. I just don't
know how feasible it is to move Dame. Like who's
who's got fifty plus million dollars in contracts and picks
and is willing to give up any of that stuff
for Dame at this stage of the game, Like, I
don't that's just a tough fit.
Speaker 1: I've almost tried to view it through the lens of
wood Milwaukee. What can like if it's just their distant
first round pick and the swat plus Dame, who does
that get you in the conversation for is it a
bucket of players? Is there just a name that's a
bigger name they've said that they want, like Milwaukee's on
their list, and that gives you a little bit of leverage.
But you're right that that also complicates the situation too,
because what is especially coming off of he doesn't play
again this year, you have the specter of, Okay, well
what does he look like next season?
Speaker 2: Right? I mean he's not He's not at a point
in his career where it's like a next year will
be better like that. This is very much like you're
just incrementally losing you know, value effectiveness, productivity every year
from now on.
Speaker 1: I guess what would be my follow up? But I
guess I should wait until your third pick to ask
this question, because if you're gonna say that Giannis is
going to be moved next like Damian Lillard should inherently
be on your list, then because why keep Dame at
that point.
Speaker 2: Of well, it's a little like Booker and Durant. It's
like if it's if it's one, it's probably both, and
it's just a question of the order. So yeah, you
could you could game it and say like, well, Dame
actually should have been the pick before Giannis. I just don't.
It's so much easier for me to if you put
Giannis on the market and Dame on the market, it's
just way easier to trade Jannis. So I think that
that kind of nudged me that way while acknowledging like, yeah,
you should, and I just said it, you should try
to trade Dame first. I just don't know how easy
that's gonna be.
Speaker 1: I guess we got to get to my second pick,
which I'm strugg I'm kind of struggling between two players
at the moment. I'm actually really struggling between three, and
I'm kind of afraid to say one of them. So
I'm probably gonna steer clear of steer clear of that
guy for now. I'm going to go with I'm gonna
go with Domntesebonus.
Speaker 2: Oh that that was my next pick.
Speaker 1: Now this gets interesting because the Kings like they are
so incompetent. It's I honestly feel terribly for King. Did
you see Blody de hold on?
Speaker 2: Are you reading off of my script right now?
Speaker 1: Is that what's happening this team is just so they
don't know what their decision makers don't know what they're doing.
And I'm not talking about the Mike Brown extension and dismissal.
I'm not talking about the lead up to the Diarron
Fox breakup, the way like what they prioritize in a
return for him. I'm not even talking about the DeMont
Sigonis noise, which is part of this of Okay, he's
gonna read this is someone that has a bunch of
years left out his contract, and the reporting is he's
going to re evaluate the situation this summer, and you
know what, this predated the report. But I don't blame
him when body DeVos is back in the fold, Grant,
did you see that? That is I just I'm not
talking about Vloddy DVCS as the person I know he's
beloved by Kings fans or what he did there as
a player. He is one of the worst executions in
the history of like basketball ops at this point and
that was a terrible time period for Kings fans. What
are you doing here, Wes Wilcox, the assistant GM he
left there. I'm just this team is hopeless. They're gonna
have to blow it up at some point. The reason
I'm hesitant to picks a bonus is because I don't
know what his actual trade value is. He's a very
specific fit, which is not to say that he's bet.
I've had him on all NBA, but three years and
one hundred and forty million dollars finishes up in his
age thirty one season for someone who I think the
benefit of him is that he's shown that he doesn't
need to necessarily be your highest volume on ball guy,
but that is very much tied to a lot of
his value. And I think he gives you more value
on defense because if you have someone who could grab
defensive rebounds and bring the ball up the floor, that
is helping your offense, but it's also helping end possessions
on the defensive end. I think there'd be teams interested
in him, but you almost need to tailor your entire
squad around him or make sure that have that second
star who is a good fit alongside him, and it's
not the most intuitive thing to do, so I struggle
to find a fit. And then the second part would be,
because we know the Kings are just awful. If if
Sabona says he wants out, are they gonna drag this
out because they can't get a return that they deem
helps them remain quote unquote in the playoff picture as
part of his departure. And so if I trusted them
to bring in new decision makers or just say, oh,
we're actually gonna rebuild, I might have had Sibonis as
my number one, well my number one picked aside from
with Kevin Durant. But I don't trust the Kings that
I think just even as we're talking, I'm trying to think, well,
what's the team that could talk themselves into Dolma Sabonis
and I don't really have one at the ready and
that sort of so I'm just going on blind faith
here that Sabonus is gonna want out and that there
will be teams that kind of maybe he doesn't get
a ton of value relative to some of the other
guys that we've talked about and that we will continue
to talk about. But I'm just the Kings are just
a dumpster fire, and I don't think he's gonna want
to stay there, And I think that that's sort of
the next Domino to all Xacremento.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good pick. I think I think the
fact that well, again it's it's hard to know. I
was gonna say the Kings acted very quickly with the
Fox situation, like you know, we were We had a
lot of conversations about like is this gonna happen at
this deadline? Probably not, It'll be the off season or
maybe you know, before next year, and then boom he
was gone. So if the bonus does seek clarity, uh,
you know, I think you could very quickly. Like by
the way he had there's ample clarity. It's very clear
what's like, what what the trajectory of this franchise is
like what you know, he he can't realistically have any
questions about what's going on, So the search for clarity
Will is basically already over. So when he goes to
the front office and says, like, you know, some version
of time for me to go, we should probably based
on precedent and have faith that like that's gonna happen
fairly quickly. So that's why it's a good it could
happen this offseason. He's a great high high likelihood to
move even with all the stuff you outlined, and that
that's a version of like just my criticism of of
his player type over the years is like you've got
a tailor a whole bunch of things to fit him,
and then even when you do that, your ceiling's low
just because of the type of player that he is.
So it is hard to find a destination. It is
hard to find a team that like views him as, oh,
he's the put us over the top kind of piece,
which is how you would have to view him. Because
he's making forty plus million up to almost fifty in
the last year of that deal. It's like he's not
a he's not a mid level, you know type acquisition
where it's like, yeah, we'll fit him in, and you
know we we don't. He can kind of work with
whatever set up and personnel we have, and it's like, no,
he's got to be a central fig the central figure
really in a lot of places, and given the costs
and his game, like that just doesn't work.
Speaker 1: So you know what the team is is gonna be though, right,
they're gonna self vision. Well, what were you gonna.
Speaker 2: Say, I was? The team is going to be Chicago.
Speaker 1: In Chicago's look at how Josh Giddy to play. At
the end of the year, We're gonna rebuild around him.
In Domas and bonus and we're gonna you know, ride
them right to the to the nine.
Speaker 2: Don't wish that the Bulls fans are having a good
time or conflicted good time right now. So please don't
please don't wish that that team is a heart attack.
It's fun, They're fine. I mean, I don't know. That
doesn't account for anything meaningful, but the point.
Speaker 1: And I didn't get to watch like the Lakers Bulls
ending lives he went back and when I watched it
multiple times, just like, what the hell? How just how Yeah,
you have fifteen nineteen in the fourth quarter, grant the.
Speaker 2: Balls and like and that's not even that's like the
fifth most exciting interesting thing about that quarter. It's just
like all the little isolated plays are are yeah, okay,
good pick. I'm I'm stalling because I don't know. He
was definitely clearly the next best guy on the board.
We've talked about Dame. I probably should consider him here
since we just like kind of linked him to Gianness
in the interest of kind of I don't know, broadening
the discussion. I think I think I'm gonna go Lauri
Markininka couldn't be traded this year because he signed that
new deal that kind of put any conversation about a
move on hiatus for a full season. So what he
has left now is three more years, one hundred and
forty nine million. He'll make twenty seven percent of the
cap next year, that's forty six ish. He's gonna make
just under fifty in twenty six twenty seven, fifty almost
fifty four in twenty seven to twenty eight. So no
small amount of money hasn't looked great this year. Bigger
picture still like, do you think he fits with whatever
it is is happening with the Jazz right now? Like,
because we've spent the season talking, trying to talk ourselves
into this is rookie, your second year guy X a
cornerstone and so far the answer is a pretty resounding no. Like,
I guess Walker Kessler is probably the mo most accomplished
of that core and he's not a second year guy.
But we've we've we've liked what we've seen from Philipowski,
Isaiah Collier is interesting, Caante George still has his merits.
Taylor Hendricks has been out all year. We still, I think,
are both on board with him. There's not like a
tent pole star there. So what so the rebuild continues.
What kind of year is Marketing going to have next
year with this team? How valuable is that versus like
more shit that you could get for him. So that's
the That's the approach I'm taking, is like, he doesn't
make sense on this team, and I think, unlike Sabonis,
the range of suitors should be pretty wide because everybody
wants a big guy that can shoot it and like
can fit as like a supplementary star. The money is
high for that type of player. But I think he's
got just much broader appeal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's more scalable than someone like Sabonas, even if
you believe that Sabonus is the better player. I always
viewed his extension and he was on I considered taking
him with my number two pick. I always consider his
extension is Utah purchasing his complacence for two more seasons.
Speaker 2: I think I've heard you say what that bought his silence?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I but I'm wondering if there's more urgency from
their perspective after the season that he's currently having to
where it's just like this has not been even close
to his best year, and if he has another one
like this this contract very clearly drifts underwater, and so
I'm wondering if there'll be more urgency on their part
to do that this year. But the other thing I
thought about is if they have a top four pick,
do you think it's let's say they get I don't
even want to call it lottery lucky. They have the
lowest winning percents in the league right now. But if
they get the number one or the number two pick,
do you think it's less likely that they move in
because they want to, Like, it's not that they're trying
to accelerate their rebuild because they've been in a little
bit longer than some of these other teams, but they
can build back up his value if they're actually putting
more talent around him. Or is that too much of
a game? Because in my head, I was like, if
they end up like slipping to fourth, slipping to fourth
in the lottery and like they're not really getting to
make their own they're making a decision, but they're not
getting to make the decision. I've wondered if they're going
to decide we need to move lowery because one we
don't know I who we're bringing in is gonna be
able to ensure that they help optimize it or make
his life easier. And then two, we just flat out
we need to figure out a way to get more
bites at the Apple at this point.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the fascinating thing, is like, other than
the thunder they've got, the Jazz have the most bites
at the Apple right in terms of like future draft
the future first. So that actually is kind of a
complicating factor for a marketing trade, is that if you're
a team in the Jazz's position, typically what you want
are what you're saying. It's like, we want more first,
we want more draft equity. We're starting over, we're in
the infancy of our rebuild somehow three plus years in.
But do they need that like that? So that makes
it tricky, Like I'm kind of arguing again, I still
would pick. I'm still taking marketing in, but like there
are complications with like one you pointed to, Like at
some point this deal might not be viewed as positive value,
like now that that might need another kind of ify
season from him, but like that's on the table. And
then it's like, well, as the Jazz, if you're not
gonna say we'd like three first somehow because we got
more than we can use anyway, what do you want? Like,
what's so maybe that narrows I said, alw he's got
a broad spectrum of teams would be interested. Maybe it's
narrower than that because Utah, just like I don't know
what the fifty ish million dollars in salary you want
coming back is going to look like, like if it's
not going to be a pick heavy package, so it
could be tricky. It just I kind of go with
the like which one of these things doesn't belong logic
and marking in on this team for where it is
in its trajectory, how much he's making, where he's at
in his career, he's sneakily older than you think. Uh,
just it doesn't it doesn't square. And so that's kind
of the that's the most dumbed down version of like
why I think he belongs on this or not list?
But like why I picked him?
Speaker 1: Who I want to take with my third pick? This
is tough. Uh, I don't want to go there's I'm
still looking at a guy that I think I'm gonna
end up. Well, I don't know. I only have three
picks left. Do we go here. I think I might
go here. I'm going to say John Morant, Okay, i's
a good time to talk. Right before we jumped on,
the Grizzlies fired Taylor Jenkins as their head coach, which
just I don't know if you want to spend a
couple of minutes on that really quickly. We're gonna do
it at the end. But this is a wild time
of year. You are in the playoff picture, you've not
been performing too well over the past month and a
half or whatever. I get that, but wild timing. We
still haven't received additional reporting on it. I don't. I'm
not saying that this is going to inform why they
would want to get rid of Moran, but like, this
is sort of a This is not indicative of a
team that has it shipped together.
Speaker 2: That is well well said.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm going with John Moran. But I
want to talk about the Taylor Jenkins. I'll get into
my justification for John Morant here. The Taylor Jenkins firing.
What can you even think of? I asked you you
could have and I like, what is the justification behind
doing this? Now?
Speaker 2: We I don't, I don't know. We were we were
trying to It's like, oh, the Quinn Snyder take over
and in Atlanta that seemed late, but like as you
remembered correctly, and I didn't, Joe Prunty was an interim
there for a while and so like they had fired
the coach long before Snyder. Snyder took over late, but
like it's not quite the same situation. I'm sure someone
out there will remember something that is like a precedent
for this, but it it's weird timing and I think
the only and nobody as we're recording this seems to
have any insight into the why of it all. It
just it does just seem like something happened or several
somethings happened over you know, in recent weeks because the
Grizzlies have been playing poorly. You know, Moran's missing time,
You've seen Desmond Bane shoving Santie all Dama on the bench.
Like it's not Kumbaya situation there, which is just let's
go step back, because I think for a lot of
this year, certainly early on, like Taylor Jenkins was a
Coach of the Year candidate. I think I stumped for
him in like a roundtable we did at some point.
You know, this might have been November, but still, and
we lauded the Oh this offense, nobody's sitting screens. That's amazing, Like, oh,
look at the look at how creative this coaching staff
has become. And now here we are, uh so to
tie it back? So I have no good explanation. This
is extremely strange. Why not just wait until presumably you
flame out in the playoffs and then nobody's asking questions
about why Jenkins got fired? You just have well, we underperformed,
So that's why, uh to tie it to the Ja
Moran thing? Like I think, I think that's a great
pick because I think anything's on the table now it's
it really does just feel like it's maybe maybe this
mix has it, just doesn't have it or this group
has run its course with like the Jenkins jaw, I
guess Bain and Jackson Corr and I don't know. I
think Morent's a good pick for a lot of reasons,
Memphis maybe like, look, he's missed a ton of time
again this year. That player type is not going to
age great, especially because he's shown no signs of being
able to shoot it well enough from deep to offset
athletic declines. I know, I harp on that all the time.
I just really believe it, Like some guys have short primes,
and he just like he's like exhibit A of the
type of player that has a short prime. So yeah,
so like I do think, actually, can you imagine if
morent were on the market, there would be a lot
of teams. I think that would because he's like your
you're on ball, first option guy, that's young enough, you
could talk yourself into a change of scenery being all
he needs, all the all the off court stuff that's
happened is like far enough in the rear view to
where maybe it's not a concern for an acquiring team.
I think that's a great pick. That was a great
pick before the Jenkins firing. It's even better now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look. But just to wrap up on Jenkins,
I try to rationalize it with the front office can't
fire themselves, and I think that they're kind of the
biggest culprits of just you look at their transactional relative
inactivity over the like or they swam on Marcus Smart
and missed, and then it's just they don't do anything,
Like you couldn't even get Torrin Phinney Smith, you salary
dump Marcus Smart. I don't know that you've given Taylor
Jenkins the talent to be much better than this, especially
when you factor in all the injuries they've dealt with.
I will say, like some of his rotations, when you
look like how the minutes are spread out at full strength,
they feel curious. But I also just wonder how much
of that is just he's like, there's just more of
this carousel of availability than with other teams. I think
his most damning thing, aside from the most recent stretch,
they have one of the worst records amout playoff teams
against teams five hundred or better. I think they're eleven
and twenty. As we were like, that's like nixion and
that's a problem. So but again it's April basically like,
this is not if if you're worried that he's not
the guy, Like, that's a decision you should have made,
probably closer to the trade deadline, if had a more
honest conversation about it over the offseason. But I do appreciate,
or at least I would like to think this way
that the way it was leaked, they are trolling the
Kings because they said that Taylor Jenkins was fired in person,
and this was Mike Brown receiving a phone call on
the way to the airport. So I respect trolling the Kings.
I'm just gonna choose that's how I'm gonna read it.
I hope everyone's okay with that. The name Marina's three
years left on his deal. I think that we're at
least we have to say this. If he's on the
Grizzlies through next season, which is probably the most likely outcome,
we're still like a year away where if they didn't
go deep in the playoffs, you're now having the John
Mariana conversation this like this time next year or a
couple months excuse me, like the twenty twenty six offseason.
That's when he has two years left on his deal.
He doesn't have a player option, but that can increase
his trade value at that point. I think there's maybe value.
What makes this tough is when you have Jared Jackson junior,
when you've paid Desmond Bane, you could say we're not
really in a position into where we take a step
back and sort of retool and take a gap year.
But at the same time, it's like, well, you could
be you're not especially old. Else you don't have a
bad deal on your books. You're about to either extend
or renegotiate and extend Jared Jackson Junior. This is a
team that I think could go a number of different
directions into trade package. And I also think, despite what
Zach Kleman said after the initial speculation came out about
John Morant, one, I know this, Brant. I know you're
sitting down and this is probably gonna break a ton
of illusions for you. NBA front offices sometimes don't tell
the truth. No, yeah, I'm sorry to be the guy
that breaks that for you. So I could see this
being a front office that makes the decision before John
Morant goes to them and decides that he's unhappy when
you look at his availability, some of the functional limitations
that you laid out, and they might say it's not
about John Rant not be a good player, but if
they don't think that they can build, let's say, a
high caliber, playoff proof offense around him, which is the
question that we still have about the business. Again, I
think it's on the front office more than anyone. I
don't I guess what I'm struggling with now is I
almost liked this pick before the Town Jenkins fire firing,
because now I'm like, well, if you're Grizzlies ownership, are
you letting the front of this front office now handle
the Ja Morant? Like, you know, do you think that
the Zach climb does he have the latitude to say
like it's time to sort of reorient this roster without
Jahn Morant because you have to imagine with their transactional
track record of late and now going through another coach.
Maybe that's why you make the move, because you know
you have that latitude. But I think that honestly, it's
easier to focus on the Grizzlies because of the Taylor
Jenkins fire, like oh, things are in disarray. But it
also makes me wonder, Okay, well now you don't have
like what is the cover for this front office? And
so if your ownership, why are they the ones that
are making a decision on Ja Moran at all?
Speaker 2: Could we could we be overthinking it a little bit?
And now I'm gonna like not quite play Devil's advocate,
but like it might this just be as simple as
it's It is a himmer, It's a him or me
thing and and like, well you've got to things aren't
going great. John Moran has been a problematic presence for
going on two plus years. The front office decided, well,
I mean we're not let's let's just move on from
Jenkins now, and well that that means we're gonna give
the whole Morant era another year or whatever. Like Could
it just be that where where it was kind of
a decision between now, Obviously you can't trade Moran today,
you have to wait till the off season. You could
have waited until the off season to fire Jenkins too.
The timing of that is still I can't wait to
hear what actually precipitated this. But could it just be that?
Could it just be a we don't love it, but
we're gonna go with Moran and see if another coach
can kind of get this thing figured out, just because
it's it's always easier, it's always easier to fire the coach.
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that Joa. Moran isn't transcendent either,
Although I am begging the Orlando Magic to stay away,
that's not the that's the wrong, Yeah, that's the wrong,
that's the wrong face. See I'm going with him at
number three. Don't feel too great about that one, but
I feel like that's the territory ran three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got there's like two or three and Dame
is just sitting there, which is like, I feel like
you should take Dame because that could undercut my honest
pick because Dame could be taken first. But I'm gonna
leave Dame alone. Still, I'm gonna go, oh man, all right,
I'm just gonna do it. I Am going to select
Anthony Davis. Uh And that has a chance to be
dead wrong if Dallas continues to employ Nico Harrison, whose
fate is like just as tied to Anthony Davis, as
is the fate as more tied to Davis than the
fate of any executive to any player throughout the league,
probably because like, this is the guy you targeted, This
is the guy you prioritized over a more open bidding
war for Luka Doncic, this is the guy you're cool
with paying on his next deal potentially. So really, what
I'm drafting is that Nico Harrison is not gonna be
making decisions in Dallas for much longer. This will just
be wrong if he keeps the job through all of
next year. I just don't know how likely that, Like,
it's just a title wave of negative fan sentiment and
just negative coverage and just incredulous writing speaking reporting about
like how in the world it is Dallas in this position.
The Kyrie Irving injury is bad luck, but it does
not make it likelier that Anthony Davis is still around
because whatever, you if anything, Kyrie getting hurt might provide
cover to say, like, well, you know that three to
four year window we were talking about is that's kind
of wrecked now, So we got to just cut our
losses and make the best of a bad situation. Trade
Davis for assets start all the way over. There are
ways this pick goes very badly for me. I am
just prepared to bet on the possibility of Dallas. Nico
Harrison needs to go, and the next person in charge is, like,
what is Anthony Davis doing on this roster?
Speaker 1: I thought about Davis too, what I struggle with with him?
Doesn't it feel like because you're mentioning, Okay, what if
Nico Harrison isn't in charge anymore? The next GM will
strip it down? What is how does like what does
the spin look like from the Dumont's oh, if they
get rid of Nico Harrison, where it's you know, look,
we played the good soldiers then, but he said doncic
when he said what the trade was for, we thought
he said Dante or something, because it's just how do
you walk? Do you? You said that you were just
so on board with this and that like Nico was
so spot on, so just to it feels like you
would either need to one get rid of Nico and
then the next person would come in and move Anthony Davis,
or Anthony Davis needs to ask for it, which I
am curious. Maybe he would. He's wanted to play with Kyrie,
but when is Kyrie gonna return next season? And otherwise
the Mavericks I don't think they have the cover to
move Anthony Davis because of the Luka Dancich trade. And
it's sort of the it's not we're only good money
after bad but you're gonna be stubborn and try and
see this vision out because you made such a stink
about what will probably go down as one of the
most inexplicable trades in NBA history. So it felt like
the scope of realistic scenarios where he would be moved
in the near future, was it wide enough for me
to take But like I'm saying that, like I might
have taken him at number five, So it just I.
Speaker 2: Mean, so do you think it Do you think it
would be the right decision for Dallas to trade Anthony Davis?
Forget the likelihood of it, Like, is that what they
should do.
Speaker 1: A sap, Yes, because if you were getting rid of Lukadancic,
you have to separate the return now. But if you
were ever getting Lukadancic, there's no scenario on which you
shouldn't be starting over if you were getting rid of
lukadovicch So.
Speaker 2: I agree with that. The fact that it's the right
decision kind of makes it seem less likely that Dallas
might But maybe they see the light and maybe, like
sometimes with bad ownership, which like, let's so far that's
that's our assessment of what's happening in Dallas. Bad ownership
is so like so easily swayed by whether it's like
in Sacramento, like random advisors that just get to make
decisions or whatever. Like I could see fans sentiment actually
pushing the Dumonts to be like, all right, well that
it's pretty clear nobody's happy with this. So if we
just trade Davis and start all the way over, maybe
some of the fans we lost will come back, or
maybe we'll stop. Hey, at the very least, we're gonna
get fewer fire Nico chants if we actually fire Nico. Like,
maybe this is the way for the for the ownership
group to actually, like, you know, claw back a little
bit of like positive favor. Uh so. But yeah, like
because it's ultimately because it's the right decision, it's probably
not going to get made, but we'll see. I don't
love the pick. I feel like it's a it's a reach,
but I just I wanted him. I wanted him on
my on my board.
Speaker 1: Are we ready for Mott? What is this my number
four pick?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got two more I've got I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna go with. And I've pushed back against this person
being included on similar exercises. I'm gonna go with Zion Williamson.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: And I think there are a couple of things here
that the Pelicans, if they end up winning the lottery
or they get someone who they think is going to
be their best player of the future, it might be
difficult to envision Zion Williamson's scaling down into a certain role,
and that would then give them the gall to look
at moving him. And he's played well enough to close
the year that you could get and just the way
his contract is protected, where there's weight check ins and
there's games played threshold that you're never technically on the
hook for all of it, like right like for the
following season the other I think, and by the way,
you still hear rumblings, just like unofficially about how he
wanted to be in New York all along. I don't
see the PA. I mean, I guess the Nets have stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're doing here. You're gonna speak
Zion to the Knicks into existence now?
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I've watched the Knicks defense for the entire season.
Speaker 2: What they need they need, you know, like the Zion
Cat front court.
Speaker 1: They probably have to trade Cat to get them to
make because I'm gonna money. But so the other thing though,
that I'm looking at, is are we sure that like
this front office, the David Griffin lead for an office
is gonna be the one that's hanging around past this
draft pick. Maybe because we've seen him make these other decisions.
But like it does seem as if they'll let David
Griffin and co change the head coach first. But if
you bring a new front office in here at any point,
or even just if you're talking about David Griffin hiring
a new head coach and you have a top four
pick to Jean Deay Murray, we don't know what he's
gonna play next season. Yeah, you did play pay Trey Murphy,
but that's kind of it. But the first thing I
try to look at it as if a new executive
came in here, given the situation the Pelicans are in
right now, what's the first thing they're doing. They're trading
Zion Williamson, right, And so the fact that that possibility
is there, I think that and a coupled with New
Orleans going to have a really high pick up, I
would feel even much if you told me that they
finished like first or second in the lottery, I might
have even included Zion Williams in a little bit higher.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's interesting. I mean, now, if it's Cooper flag
somehow are you if it's Cooper Flag, are they more
or less likely to trade Zion? Because fit wise I
could see it a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to the others Devil's advocate point is
Zion at his pinnacle when he's healthy, is just so
good that it's not over trading Zion with the hope
of we eventually are bad enough to draft someone as
good or even get picks back, or we could draft
someone as good as him. It's we're hoping we get
someone who's like fifty percent of peaks On Williamson or something.
So that kind of undermines my point here. But the
situation in New Orleans just feels it's been sitting like
this for too long, and philosophically, it feels like everything
needs a reset with the organization and maybe even new
front office came in, they might approach just building around
Zion and this year's picked differently and Trey Murphy of course,
But yeah, the flagst I think personally, I think it
would make it more likely that they trade Zion Williams
and just maybe not because Cooper Flag is this unknown quantity.
But aren't there questions about, well, how well can Cooper
Flag score from the perimeter? So you want sure all
dominate guys who aren't gonna stretch the floor to you.
Speaker 2: So I think I think you're so right about just
like whether it's right, whether it's smart or not. Some
sometimes when like I don't know, frame it this way.
The preseason questions about a team are the same year
after year after year. Now it's not like Zion's been
in the league for fifteen seasons, but like, just think
about what we do prior to every year it's like
what's the biggest question for the Pelicans or like what
do the Pelicans need? And it's it seems like it's
been forever. It's like, well, there's not really anything to
talk about beyond like is Zion going to be healthy
and hold up? Like that's just that's been the core
thing to discuss about the Pelicans for what seems like
a really long time, and that just gets stale, and
so that that might be that like that's a point
in your favor picking him to be traded because like,
especially if the same management is there, it's just like,
so if Zion is still on the Pelicans going into
next season, even after the way he's played for this
stretch lately, the question is gonna be can he stay healthy?
What kind of shape is he in? Like, man isn't
it difficult to build around a player like this, even
though the upside is like it'll be the same, and
like I can just imagine the Pelicans decide and David
Griffin deciding, like I wou'd be nice to like run
a normal team or a different question than the same
one we've you know, had to wrestle with every year.
Speaker 1: Do you think what also could be? And I didn't
think of this until now, isn't this like their last
best chance to get real value for Zion because if
you're moving him after this, it's from a position of
weakness when you look at how much time is left
on his deal, or it's also it's that end or
something has now gone even more wrong and maybe that
thing that went wrong is Ion himself.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, that's just a flipped version of like
the reality that every time he plays really well for
a long stretch, it's like, I think we need to
sell high like that. You know that that's just what
you should be thinking about now that that changes if what,
like he plays this well for all of next season
and then you're just not trading him like because he's
just he's great. But yeah, you're always it's just the
same thing like he's he's awesome until he's not, and
and there's been a lot of not because he hasn't
been healthier in shape, and you're just gonna be as
the Pelicans, constantly worried that while we missed, we missed
our last chance to move him for something really good.
And now there's been enough laps around the like oh
hamstring again that you just can't ever trade him for value.
The non guarantees help, or the partials help, but still
like it's yeah, you would be constantly thinking about, like, oh,
did we miss the window? If you're the Pelicans.
Speaker 1: Cool, I have a final pick.
Speaker 2: I have a final pick. Okay again, I'm gonna leave Dame. Uh.
There's two guys to choose between. I suspect you'll pick
the other one. I'm gonna go with LaMelo ball. Uh.
Not quite the same amount of like actual you know,
substance in terms of always gonna be traded as say
certainly not as Duran and even as like Sabonis. What
you do here is a lot of reporting, well, teams
will be interested if the Hornets make him available, And
you couple that with like what is Charlotte's timeline? Like
they they to John Salon is still a teenager, massive
project that was, and they reached for him in this
most recent draft. Mark Williams is like an ancient twenty
three and they tried to trade they they did trade him,
uh so, and now he's back and what they tried
to trade him for were first and another rookie. Like
so that suggests to me that Charlotte, and we've praised
them for this, it is looking real long term here.
So it's just pretty easy for me to imagine Charlotte
moving moving Williams again, or and or Ball and just
saying like, yeah, Brandon Miller is the guy, or at
least until we get the next guy that's even younger,
and we build around those two and we're just gonna
we're gonna operate like we're the Thunder or the Jazz
or whatever where we hoard picks and we just you know,
this thing will develop on its own time. And LaMelo's
you know, already making a rookie Max and like he's
he's not like you can't say he's too old for them,
but I think like he does take up a fair
amount of the oxygen and like kind of is a
defining player and if you're not trying to win now,
I'm not sure that type of player has more value
to you, like in person than he does as what
you could turn him into pick and young asset wise,
So it's just kind of a standard. He's not quite
in the timeline. His value I think is fairly high
because he's young and he will just improve whoever's offense.
He goes to Orlando, and so I've got to make
him the last pick because I wouldn't have felt good
about him staying unselected.
Speaker 1: It's interesting he was on my list, like to be
in the top five. Two. He just hits four years
on his deal after this one, and like it's gonna
it continues to decline in terms of what it's gonna
be worth the cap, like twenty two and a half
percent of salary cap during what would be his age
twenty seven season. I feel like if people weren't speculating
so much, Like if I was just to remove myself
from that discourse, I never would have considered him, because
I think it would be batshit crazy for Charlotte to
move someone who has not asked or indicated that he
doesn't want to be there, and when everything you just
said they're so far away. It's how does moving LaMelo
get you any clote? He clearly hasn't ruined your tank.
You're gonna a bottom four two this year, and so
I just unless he agitates for it, I just won't.
Or unless they think that his ankles are cooked.
Speaker 2: Well there's that too, yeah, which, by the way.
Speaker 1: Is a possibility, and you're right there definitely would get
and I think would also make sure cases there will
be a wide range of teams where it's like a Utah.
They might be in unlamental Ball, even though they're not
close to competing, but in Orlando, which is a team
that wants to make the jump to contention, or maybe
even Detroit like they would be teams that would talk
about him. So I think that certainly helps him being included.
I just when you're Charlotte and you look at this team,
LaMelo and Brandon Miller are the only just building blocks
that you have. When one of those building blocks has
already made an All Star team and is still under
contract for another four years, I look at it in
my mind and say, I guess, if you get like
an absurd offer, which is always possible, this is just
something I'm not even discussing until least next like the
summer twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, it is weird because he is still
young and he's like it's on the fun Max the
team controls there. Like, you're right. If not for the rumblings,
I don't think you'd point to what If not for
the rumblings, we would just be talking about Charlotte as like, well,
they got like, you know, forty percent of their you know,
the next great starting lineup in place because you got
Miller and you got LaMelo and you just figure out
the rest. It's you know, it's not like LaMelo's already
twenty eight or whatever azon his third deal, but it's
just there. We're talking about it, so we got to
talk about it. And it just sometimes these things, you know,
snowball from speculation into reality, and it feels like there's
just enough reality, especially with just the way Charlotte has
conducted business that makes it seem more likely.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it buys you if you're the front office,
and buys you time. Right, If Jeff it's like, hey,
our timeline's like there's eleven year timeline you can keep
out well.
Speaker 2: And you've got the he's not our guy angle, like
this front office didn't pick him. There's always that always matters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so again I consider him. I'm before we get
to my player, do you want to guess, because you
said I'm probably gonna pick one of these two, I
think I know who you're gonna say, and I think
you're wrong.
Speaker 2: Well, so I was gonna. I was choosing between LaMelo
and Jalen Brown, and I thought you might take Jalen
Brown just on the Well, I'll let you speak about
it if that is who you're gonna take.
Speaker 1: I'm not taking Jalen Brown, okay. And I think we
should probably go through some of the names that people
were expecting quickly after my final pick. And I'm curious
if we'd be surprised. I'm going with Alprin Shankun.
Speaker 2: Okay, I would say, I'm mildly surprised.
Speaker 1: I was. I was aiming to shock you. Let me
try another name, Steph Curry.
Speaker 2: Stop it.
Speaker 1: So his contract is gonna kick it next year, five years,
one hundred and eighty five million dollars. That is just
in terms of percentage of the salary cap. It begins
at twenty two percent and it'll decline to seventeen percent
in the final that it's a player option. So his
Matt like by by the time he's about to become
a free agent, he'll been under a contract at nineteen
percent of the salary cap his player options for his
age twenty seven season. The top timeline just works in Houston.
He was their All Star this year. Whether you think
he's their best player right now, there's a debate over
who is their best player of the future moving forward.
It's not the same conversation we have about the Jazz
because Houston just has a ton of viable Canada I
would say, what three because I'm still that high on
Reed Shepherd. The reason he's here for me is we've
so often defaulted to Jalen Green is going to be
the money he makes more like per year, is going
to be the money that gets sent out any consolidation trade.
I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, if the Rockets make
a consolidation trade, Grant, they're either going to go after
elite guard or they'll be in like the Yannis sweepstakes.
And those are two types of players that arguably make
Alpha and Shangun expendable to you. And I think you
could look at Shangun more so than Jalen Green is
another team. If you're entering a rebuilding phase, maybe you
don't view him as your tempole in the future, but
that's someone who's young you could start to build a round.
I think he certainly can like elevate your floor as
an offense. And then I also under from Houston standpoint,
it's how well will he mesh with new incoming town.
Like we've seen him play with Jabari Smith, We've seen
him play with Aman Thompson. They've been playing him and
Steven Adams together lately and just absolutely like steamrolling opponents.
So I'm not saying that he's too limiting. I just
think that for what they need, and because they also
have Aman Thompson on this team, like that's just the fit.
There's just not super intuitive. They've made it work. But
if you're trying to build this top notch offense, I
think at some point you end up marginalizing at least
one of them because you're not gonna put them in
their optimal spot when they're on the floor together. And
so I think Alpert and Shangun is a much more
value like I would give up more for Shangun than
I would for Jalen Green in a trade right now,
and I think that helps the Rockets in their pursuit
of another star. And maybe I just end up being
this I think was my like bigger, biggest gamble I was.
I've I've been thinking about him since number two because
it's just he's he's such a he's on such a
good contract, he's so good to that team. But I
also just don't like he hasn't necessarily elevated this offense
at points to where it needs to be. There's still
questions about his jump shot. We've seen like honestly he
had more room to improve defensively, but like his progression curve,
it's been more impressive on defense than Yeah, he's the
more impressive offensive player. But for maybe what they need,
like if you need him to compliment more like the
players that you have or the player that you're going
to trade for, I just don't know that he's as
bankable there. And I really think I'm just twisting myself
into a pretzel saying it might also just be a
way of teams won't want alprin Shangun and that'll be
the cost of doing business if you want to get
the next great player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I I think like you. Oh, it's
hard to say, and we do this like I'm worried
about how he's gonna scale We're just kind of really
talking about the idea of he sort of puts he's
a little sabonacy. I know that's a lazy comp but
it's like just because of what he's good at and
not good at, it's just a hard you've got to
make concessions else where, Like Jabari Smith becomes like way
too important because of what he might be able to
do to offset what shang Gun doesn't. Like there's that
whole thing he said, well, how good can the rockets get? Like, well,
the rockets are by unanimous agreement, like way ahead of schedule,
Like they're not supposed to be this good yet. And
Shangoon has factored into that, you know, as much as
almost anybody, maybe more than anybody on the current roster.
So all this stuff about can he scale up and
how good can you be? On both ends with like,
there's all that to it, But I hadn't thought of
you really, I'm gonna steal this line of thinking because
I hadn't thought of it. I just like the idea
that if the Rockets are going to go get what
they need, those things will make Shangoon less valuable, and
Shannggun is probably the best way to get those things.
So it all just sort of aligns. I think, I
think you're right, So lead ball handler, well, what do
we need Shangun for? Like you know, like I really
think that is a strong logical like trail to follow there,
And I was just imagining, Oh, if it's honest, like,
if I'm the Bucks, I'm feeling pretty good about Shangun
being like, hey, he's young. We can run the offense
through him, Like so if you're after a superstar, he
is kind of the route to get there too. Yeah,
I think that's a good pick. I wasn't gonna take him.
We discussed off air, like I don't know, it's Jalen
green a fit. I think Shangun is the right is
the right choice there. I applaud you. You give me
something to think about. I hadn't thought about before.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I did think about. Obviously the
money matters here because shang Gun is going to make
more than Alman Thompson. But if a team wants like who,
if you're the Rockets, who are you more likely to
give up in a trade? Is it Shanguon or a
men Thompson Shangun. That's not also because I think more
teams might be in shant On tom just the rookie
scale of it all and ready does defensively, but like
Shane Gun there's kind of well, we know what he's
gonna make for the next half decade and there's proof
of concept on the offensive end for him, So that
like all that just sort of I'm glad. I'm glad
at least one person supports this pick.
Speaker 2: I'm in you want to run through some names here,
so we mentioned I mentioned Jalen Brown. It's just you
could throw We may as well just discuss true holiday
in Chris. That's porzingis here as well. Like you know,
they they fall a little shorter of the star designation
than Brown. But it's just a money thing. We talked
about the sale of the Celtics. We don't know what
the stomach for you know, a half a billion dollar
payroll plus tax bill is going to be and Brown
makes a ton and he's the guy that like, it's
not none of those guys are expendable, but if you're
really trying to make a huge dent in what this
team costs, like that's that is the guy that you
would move as Boston. They don't want to do it,
but you know, financially, he's just the most obvious guy
to go, right.
Speaker 1: And if I thought that there was even a chance
that they would visit that this summer, he might have
actually just made my list because of how like it's
so easy to spind it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, had I it was between him and Lamela for
my last pick, and it would have just you can't
choose Brown or I mean, and to a lesser extent,
the other two guys Porzingis are Holiday unless you think
maybe Boston gets knocked out, you know, pre conference finals
or gets its ass kicked in the conference finals or
something like that.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too is I really do think
that they would try. If they do something this summer,
it's gonna be to do it without moving Jailen Brown
to where it's oh, will they use first Well, they
include a first round pick to get off for Jowliday
or they'll be a taker for Christops. So that factored
in another name that I think people would be expecting
to see Trey Young.
Speaker 2: Yep, my whole thing.
Speaker 1: There's definitely going to be that organic conversation this summer
because he's one year out from his option year, so
two years until free agency. But the Hawks don't control
their own draft picks until after twenty twenty seven. And
I also, you know, similar to Sabonis, I don't know
what Trey Young's market is. But if you're the Kings,
I think you can take not a king's ransom for
do Masa Bonis and people are just like, oh, they'll
be trolled because they gave Tyres Halbert to get him.
But if you're the Hawks and you just accept whatever
package for Trey Young, that's just a tough press conference
to win. And again, it'd be different if you can
trolled your own draft. You don't. And you've also now
that dearon Fox is in San Antonio, that team that
owned your picks has now been taken off the board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who else would I throw out here at Shingoon
down there? We mentioned Jalen Green. I mean that you
can we can probably knock him off if he's not
like a quote unquote star.
Speaker 1: We should talk about the Philly guys.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, like I get I mean I would
just I had Embiid actually listed first, but you definitely,
like Maxie and Paul George, Embiid is like almost impossible
to trade just because of the uncertainty surrounding his health
and the amount of that deal going forward. But like
that is the nuclear option for Philly, and we maybe
we get another year close to this one, then you
got to explore it that The problem is, like it
takes two sides to make a trade, and I don't
like who's the team that is like willing to say
we'll assume the Embiid risk.
Speaker 1: I don't know who is that. So again, Embiid's owed
four years and two hundred and forty eight point one million,
that's what's left on his deal. Paul George has three
years and about one hundred and sixty two point four
Tyre's Maxie I thought was intriguing because if you're the
Sixers and you are starting over, I understand he's young ish,
but like this deal takes him through his age twenty
eight season, and if you're really starting over, you wind
up winning the lottery for some reason. Wouldn't there be
some sort of argument to like Tyre Spex has already
been paid, he's on his max, Like, we're not trying
to be good next season. I it just if they
were to I'll say this, if they were to move
in Beiid, it would not shock me. If it's a
situation like we talked about with Phoenix and Devin Booker.
I think Embiid would need to be the first domino
to fall, But it wouldn't shock me if like they did,
like visit the Maxi trade value if they do wind
a movie in bid. But I don't know at this point,
I don't even know if you could get Jen. There's
nothing to do with the Bead's talent as a player.
It's just the availability and the money. I don't I
don't know that you can even get a shorter term contract.
Like if you got a shorter term contract, I don't
even know if it would just be pure expirings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Maxi is Maxi doesn't feel like he
fits in this discussion, But you have to concede that
from the Sixers perspective, like that's the guy that you
could rely ably get positive value for just because George
and Embiid come with age and health and like cost
concerns where MAXI it's like, you know, unless you run
him into the ground because your whole team's hurt and
he pulls a hamstring, like he's gonna be relatively healthy
and productive. And I get his shooting makes him fairly scalable.
The defense isn't great, but like that's the guy that
if you're the Sixers and you're trying to meaningfully I
don't know, inject your like acquire positive assets or whatever.
Like he's just the easiest one to trade really right,
like the other two guys are, You're gonna have to
talk somebody into it.
Speaker 1: It feels like, uh I what about Kawhi. He's on
on that contract. I just the possibility that he would
just retire if he ved. It's just like I couldn't
think him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Harden's there too, although he's got you know,
he's probably gonna opt out and well, I don't know
what he's gonna do because there's no free agent money
to be had. But the Clippers just kind of feel like,
first of all, we like, I don't know, we haven't
done our Executive of the Year talk, but like at
some point Ornce Frank is just gonna have to rate
pretty high because kind of just made something out of
nothing this year and made a lot of good decisions,
but it doesn't feel like well certainly, like realistically the
hard and Kawhi core got what one two more good
years in it realistically, just because of age and health
and stuff. So that just the the idea of like
the clock ticking on that is is a pretty big
motivating factor for both of those two guys being moved to.
Speaker 1: A couple other names here. I thought that the Timberwolves
guys Julius Randall has the player option, so that not
only whether he's gonna opt out or in made it tough.
And then I have Rudy Gobert as well, where he's
about to start that three year extension next year, which
is it's running through his age thirty five season with
a player option and a you know, sub twenty three
percent of the salary cap three years, one hundred and
ten million. I just if they're gonna enter the Kevin
Durant sweepstake somehow, it's one of those guys I assume
would be the one of the primary like outgoing money.
I just don't know, you know, if you're moving Julius,
the problem was with them. If you're moving Julius Randall
or Ruby Gobar in a vacuum, I don't know what
actual value you're getting unless the team, like it would
be Phoenix is painted into a corner somehow, or Phoenix
is desperate to remain competitive. That's why Rudy Gobert, I think,
is the better fit for this exercise that Julius Randall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did have Randall. I didn't have go Bear
on my list. Bradley Beal, like they really wanted to
trade him, and all it would have taken was him
waving the no trade maybe in the off season that gets,
you know, we get some clarity and Beal is like
relenting finally, I mean, like definitely the Suns don't want
to have Bradley Beal anymore. So that's a pretty big factor.
And will a guy get traded or not?
Speaker 1: So I didn't have him on my list, And can
I let you know why?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 1: He hasn't made an All Star Game in a half decade.
Speaker 2: He's not a star, that's right, Oh man, Yeah, well
he's got a big name still, I don't know, is
a third option on a playing team that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: That people were wondering should he should they even bring
him back from his hamstring injury, or they better off without him,
and then they got trucked by the Celtics. Here's a
name that's I don't even know if we need to
go through like any other more, but this would be
a it's a spicy one, but I thought, I legitimately
thought about including him, Karl Anthony Towns with the Niggs. Yeah,
he has three years left on that contract, and I
don't think they can look at Mitchell Robinson say well,
we're just we don't trust Connthie Town's defense. We're confident
with Mitch moving forward. He's cheaper. But it's just the
Knicks probably deserve more time because of the degree to
which they've shaken up the roster, but they've done so
in a way where they don't really have any other options,
and if their's they've been mentioned to Giannis, like if
Jiannis wanted to go to New York and it's the
player like, yeah, you have bridges in Atanobi and you
could I guess you could step ladder that way to
get assets that would go to Milwaukee. But Karnthie Town's
number is so big, and I think that if you
were going to do something, I know, his contract is massive,
paying him over he had three years left at like
one hundred and sixty eight million bucks, just a floor
space if you believe you have the defensive infrastructure to
protect him, which the Nick clearly did not. I don't
view his three year, seventy one million dollar commitment as
to taxing. I mean it's huge, but also he's you
talk about scalability, like his offense will just basically fit anywhere.
And so that's just a name I kind of have circle,
not because I think the Knicks are necessarily gonna blow
it up, but if there's a way for them to
get a bigger name, Karl Anthony Town's I think is
good enough to fit. Oh we traded a star for star.
Maybe they need to attach something to said star. But
then he's still good enough to carry that type of misteam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that makes sense. We're getting pretty speculative here,
but I don't think you should assume Jimmy Butler will
continue to be happy forever. So like if the Warriors,
you know, losing the plane or whatever, or he just
doesn't turn into playoff Jimmy, and then you're a year
down the road again and maybe you start getting some
of the typical like you know, by the way they're
he's already like getting to fly separately and stay separately
from the team, and like that's all happening you. I
can envision a scenario where the Warriors are looking at
it like, well, Okay, you know we took a crack
at it with him, but can we flip him for
someone else in that price range? So just just just
put a pin in that one?
Speaker 1: Can I put a pin in another name?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 1: Draymond Green? Yeah? I mean there's just you emotionally, you
don't think that they were they're not gonna trade Steph.
I right, Like, if we're being serious, they're not gonna
trade Steph. But something could go sour between him and
the organization more than ever would with Steph. And I
also am just more open to the idea that I
asked more this, if the sunset they trade you, like
Kevin Durant for Jimmy Butler, would you do it? And
I said that I probably wouldn't. But like I think
if if you gave the Warriors truths to him, they
might even though he's so important, especially when they're playing
smaller that he feels that they're gonna go out and
get another star. Maybe it's a younger star, Like you
would rather trade Draymond Green than Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just if you took all of the
stuff out out of it that you can't take out
of it, I think that's right because it just age,
you know what I mean, if you took the emotion,
the sentiment, the history, and the Steph like that's the thing.
Because of course they're not trading Steph. I'm not sure
you could trade Draymond Green because Steph would say, do
not trade Draymond Green, and you have to listen to him.
But like as far as what he provides on the court,
like his trajectory going forward, given his age, given the
fit issues that persist, like it's hard to have. It's
harder to have Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kaminga in the
game because Draymond Green doesn't you know, it's all the
same stuff. But yeah, I think you're right, just like
it's that boy that's that's not the nuclear option, but
that's that's close because it would piss off Steph.
Speaker 1: I will say, because we had Giannis and because we
had some bonus like Levine and Damian Lillard we already
talked about, like they just have their own cases. Then
I don't trust that the Kings would even if they
move the bonus like I think that they would view
if Levine is the primary building block of a contender,
or they're still trying to be good and don't want
to get rid of him. The Dame is one where
it's because I didn't pick you, honest, I didn't feel
obligated to pick Dame. But like that's probably just one where, yeah,
if we think Giannice is going to be traded Dame,
it's not going to be far behind if he's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I probably should have taken him, but I
thought you might just because like strategically you could, you
could undercut my Giannis pick by taking Dame.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting now that this is over, and
I'm sure that some people just haven't listened to this far.
I didn't go in this this exercise necessarily trying to
be the like to beat you, I want to be correct,
But I went into it. I was like I want
to have these discussions, and so like I want I
would have picked you honest, to be clear, and then yeah,
because I picked you honest, I might.
Speaker 2: Have then picked yeah, right, you're kind of committed that way.
Speaker 1: Any other name sort of stand out.
Speaker 2: I think I'm about out. Yeah, you picked a little bit.
Speaker 1: What if the Spurs just were going to flip him
for more value than they got or they I was
trying to think of, like the lead play, like what
if they wont Let's say they win the draft lottery
and get Cooper Flag. Do you want Daron Fox still
or trying to like Parlay is expiring contract will better fit.
Speaker 2: And then and then if you think Castle is gonna
be the guy that should be on the ball, like
that's the I mean, you can't. I don't think if
you had like fifty more games this year and Castle
could show you like he can't. I don't think he
can convince them of that with what's remaining of this season.
But it is a conversation. That was the thing about
Fox is it's like you didn't pay a price that
made it so he has to be like a mainstay.
He has to be our number two. You could let
him go or flip him like that, that's fine, Like
it just you're early enough in the Wimby era while
you should be trying to compete when he's great, which
he already is. Like you're not married to Fox as
your second option, like by any stretch. So yeah, I
think he's an interesting one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, Steph Castle, He's uh, his efficiency has improved,
which means he's still shooting sub forty effective field goal
percentage on jumpers. We were talking this conversation about how
we need to put ourselves do a better job putting
ourselves in fan shoes andunderstand why Spurs fans say that
he is the only rookie of year option. But I
just it's just the justification. I'm looking at how much
more efficient he is since the All Star break, and
I'm just gonna like the issue, the primary issue is
still the primary issue. That volume it is.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. I wrote something about him the other
day and it was just like if you just take
his like per thirty six numbers, or take his numbers
as a starter or whatever you want, like they don't
you know, he's still just like a net negative guy
because of the shooting. If you just pretend that he
had like league average numbers from the field and from three,
so like forty six thirty six, he's just like he's
a superstar. Like it's not it's not like right today,
not like oh he projects as one. It's like, no,
he just is a superstar. That's just that's where he
would be if you were a league average shooter, which
shows you how bad I mean the shooting is just
I mean, he's a He's gonna be someone we talk
about for a long time in one way or the other,
as like, man, remember when we thought all it would
take for Castle to be great was shooting, and like,
of course guys never learned how to shoot well when
they're that bad. Or it's like we'll always point to
him as the guy that figured it out, and he'll
be the reason we buy into every super good young
player that does everything but shoot because he figured it out,
so that you know what I mean, He's gonna be
like a real touchstone.
Speaker 1: I would say him, or like one of the Thompson
brothers has the chance to change, like the way we
scollop for him.
Speaker 2: One way or the other, We're gonna write off a
shit ton of really talented guys if none of those
three ever figure out how to shoot, and if they do,
then we'll always buy in, like they're gonna change how
we think for a long time.
Speaker 1: A couple of the this is very quickly. I would
have probably picked one of the Miami guys Bam or
Tyler Hero if they had any sort of control over
their picks, like they're two of their next three picks
are just basically or two of their next four are gone.
That's just tough. And I don't think Tyler Hero doesn't
have the cachet to say move me. And I just
don't see Bam just signed the extension and the other one.
But I couldn't, even though I view him more highly
than Bradley Beal right now, he last made an All
Star Game earlier than Bradley Beal was twenty twenty, and
Bal made one in twenty twenty one. Just brandon Ingram
in Toronto. It just if they viewed him as a
salary placeholder that they plan to attach more stuff to
try and big it bring in someone who might be
a better fit for that roster. But I just I
didn't know if he qualified. If I wasn't gonna put Beale,
I didn't think I could put Ingram.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've I think we've gone far enough down
the list of if we're talking about Ingram and Beale, Do.
Speaker 1: You want to take us out of here unless you
have anything else to say?
Speaker 2: No, thanks everybody for checking this episode out. Let us know.
I mean, this will be fun to keep track of,
but let us know if we missed anybody, or who
you would have had first, if you would have taken
dame first, beheaded honest, I think that's an interest or
before you're honis not first. As always, please rate, review,
subscribe wherever you're listening to this. If you're watching us
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Thanks for that for YouTube podcast description, and as always,
we're going to close with the show to the Franklin
Lakino An apologies to Jared Allen, neither of whom are
on the trade block,