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Speaker 1: What is upfellows? That goes to im Dana Valley.

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Speaker 2: Coming at you with another twenty four twenty twenty five NBA.

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Speaker 1: Season look ahead.

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Speaker 2: We're onto the Phoenix Suns, which means I have the

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distinct pleasure to be joined by the fellas from the

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Timeline podcast, Sam Cooper and at Mike Vhill. I don't

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know why I said at Mike Vhill, but you can

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follow Mike Vhill on Twitter at.

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Speaker 1: Protected pick spelled exactly as it sounds.

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Speaker 2: Follow Sam on Twitter at s Cooper Hoops, also spelled

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exactly as it sounds, and the links will be in

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the podcast and YouTube description where you can find their

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podcast their Twitter handles. The Twitter handles will also be

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up on screen for anyone watching on YouTube and in

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a second.

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Speaker 1: They're great.

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Speaker 2: Can't recommend their podcast enough, and I do recommend it

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a ton on this I love listening to those guys.

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We get into all things Phoenix Suns very quickly. For

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you're new around these parts, consider hitting the subs scribe button.

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We're not covering Phoenix Suns all the time, but we

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do cover the entire league. We do it exceptionally well.

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We have a lot of fun. Stick with us throughout

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the entire season. If you're just kind of choppering in

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because you're interested in in Suns content, that's all I

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have for you, though. So let's get to lots of

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Phoenix Suns. Talk with the fellas from the world famous

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Timeline podcast. Mike, Sam, welcome back. I think this is

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the fourth year we're doing a Sons look ahead together,

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So I'm excited that you guys continue to come back.

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And now I have to win there. Ever, there's three

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people on the podcast. I have to remember to kind

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of how to like actually host, So I'm gonna throw

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it to Sam.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Hello? Dan? I appreciate that you continue to invite us back.

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This is one of my favorite things we do every year.

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If it's year number four, then apparently it's been downhill

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for the Phoenix Suns every time we do this, because

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I think it means we started probably after the finals

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run and.

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Speaker 1: That was four years ago. No, it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, man, it was well more than three.

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It was three years ago. It was three years ago.

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But this is the fourth season since then. Because it

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was year after the finals, are on lost in the

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second round to Dallas. Year after that, lost in the

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second round to Denver, last year lost in the first

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round of Minnesota, and now this is season number four.

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Since then here we go.

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Speaker 1: Geez, what is time? Mike? How are you doing? Speaking

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of what is time?

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Speaker 4: Uh, I'm doing well. I've said it before. It doesn't

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really feel like the season is about to start until

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we do this podcast. So thank you for inviting us

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on again.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's that always. I've heard you say it before

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and I never tire of it.

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Speaker 1: So thank you.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into this team. I have more a lot

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more reflective questions I think on them than I have

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a lot of other teams. So Mike, based off kind

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of how last season unfolded, was it the right call

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to get rid of Frank Vogel and irregardless of that, Like,

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was this more of a not meshing with player situation

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or was there something to you that he just critically

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did wrong when it came to managing the team on

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the court.

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Speaker 4: So the way that the Suns were constructed last year,

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you could they had the thirteenth best defense in the

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NBA last year, a team that was pretty small, team

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that struggled defensively at the beginning of the season, found

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a way to put it together to have the thirteenth

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best defense, which if you talk to us at the

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beginning of the season, I would have said that that

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is an acceptable number as long as the offense is

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like a top three, top five offense in the NBA.

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But surprisingly, the offense was a big problem for the Suns,

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a team that has potentially three offensive superstars, if you

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want to call them that. So to me, the fact

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that they couldn't figure out how to have a competent

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offense for the entire season, not to mention one that

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was good enough to justify them being considered contenders, that

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to me was enough. But if you also factor in

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the fact that it was pretty clear that the players

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and Frank did not get along, and there was an

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immediate hit piece the moment they were eliminated from the

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playoffs written by Sean Scherania that had quotes from players

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in that hit piece, I would say it's pretty clear

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that something was not working there. And the more I

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dig into the roles that these guys, these guys played

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last year. We've talked about it a little bit in

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our internal development series that we had, the more I

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think it was justified to fire Frank Vogel, I don't

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think he was doing a good job offensively.

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Speaker 3: Anything to add to that, Tim, Well, No, I agree

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with everything Mike saying it's unfortunate that we've had to

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go through this process two years in a row. I

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guess that's all it is. And yeah, I wouldn't say

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that I have anything particularly insightful to add there. Budenholzer

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is going to bring a different brand of basketball, at

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least we hope stylistically there will be some changes. But

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you never want to see a guy get fired, you know,

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one year into his contract of I don't even remember

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how many years the Suns originally gave vocal Do you remember, Mike?

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Was it a four year deal? I think it was

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five five.

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Speaker 1: Year deal, Fewer than Monny Williams.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, that is that is definitely true. Minny Williams was

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killing it.

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Speaker 1: Sam.

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Speaker 2: Is there anything, Well, I guess one, what did you

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think of the decision to go with Budenholzer? But is

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there anything stylistically specifically on the court you're either expecting

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or hoping to see differently from this team under him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? The main thing is movement. I think that's what

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we saw in some of the well you laugh, but well.

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Speaker 2: I'm just laughing because having watched the Suns, especially like

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during some of their you know, stretch run games.

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Speaker 1: It's just like it's so simple.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, like maybe get these guys moving,

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that'd be great.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean, I hate the fact that my

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criticism can can be boiled down to something so simple,

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But yeah, I look vocal Over performed to expectations on

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the defensive ends. We have to give him credit. The

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fact that a team starting Bradley Beale at kind of

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de facto point guard and Yusuf Nurkic at center by

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the second half of the season was a top ten

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half court defense and the NBA. That's incredible. But you

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guys need an offense too. It's just not as easy

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as stick Kevin Durant in the post, give it to

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him with twenty seconds on the shot clock, and you know,

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let him do his.

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Speaker 4: Little heavy turn it over.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, if definitely, it became here comes the double,

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here comes the turnover. Everything was just was just far

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too easy to anticipate for opposing defenses. So they need

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more of a plan. They need more compound movement, in

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which Devin Booker and Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal are

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playing off of each other in the same sets. Kevin

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Durant being used ideally as a screener, you know, coming

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on ball screens, off ball screens, but also moving off

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of screens himself. I get it. It's difficult because you're

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trying to preserve his body, and so there is a

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certain perspective of last year. Kevin Durant played seventy five games.

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You know, they didn't want to play him a ton

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at the five because they're concerned about, you know, his body.

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They didn't want to use him as a screener for

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Devin Booker because again, it's this physical part of the game.

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I get it. But if you really want to maximize

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what this team is capable of doing, especially in the playoffs,

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you need a little bit more of really finding ways

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for these guys to work together, because they improve the depth.

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We're going to talk about that, but the depth is

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only going to take you so far. It's how you

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optimize Devin Booker and Kevin Durant's that's how this team

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reaches its ceiling.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, in some ways, they took a team that has

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three offensive superstars treated two of them, like PJ Tucker

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on offense for half of the place just standing there

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doing nothing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I would argue, aside from doing nothing, yes,

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that's a way to conserve energy, but having Kevin Durant

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come off of screens will actually save him energy compared

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to how you were using him.

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Speaker 1: On the ball.

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Speaker 2: Yeah last year too, So I'll be interesting if they

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do that. But Mike, and I'll want answers from both

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of you, assuming they're different here. But aside from Budenholzer

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and whatever he's going to implement, what is the biggest

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storyline for this team that you're going to be monitoring

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entering next season or throughout next season.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it has to be the addition of multiple

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point guards to this team, because this was a team

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that I think it was justifiable to not have to

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not start a point guard if you start with two

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guards in Bradley Beal and Devin Booker, and the idea

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being that you can have both of these guys, along

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with Kevin Durant, handling the ball enough and creating enough

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for others to sort of be okay without one. But

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the fact that they pulled off an offseason where they

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added I think competent point guards at the starting and

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backup position. I think changes things for how this team

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can play offensively and even maybe has an impact defensively,

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if not just because of the ability to not turn

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it over constantly, because that's really what was the biggest problem,

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but maybe to have other players out there that are

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good at getting in the passing leans and actually turning

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the other team over a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Sam, how much of an impact do you see like

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Tias Jones having on this offense, even just aside from Okay,

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we know the assist to turnover ratios generational, but like,

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is there like another area or just like is it

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general organization? Like what type of impact you envision him

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having on a team that is so loaded with again

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three guys who in theory can do a bunch of

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stuff on the ball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is just general organization, because let's be

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honest in terms of both who Tias and Monte are.

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They have this generational skill and their other skills are

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just average. These guys are average and everything else. Right, Tias,

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he comes with a little bit of a floater game

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that's pretty good. Monte has a mid range game as well.

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I'll be curious to see how much they're sort of

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pushing him to just fire away from threes when he

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comes off the bench and maybe get away from some

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of the stuff that he's done in the past. But

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we need them for their point guard skills, because again,

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this was the ninth best offense in the NBA last year,

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and not because they shot the ball poorly from any

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particular spot on the floor. They had lots of loads

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of good three point shooters. Just look at the season

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that Grace and Allen had being the best three point

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shooter in the NBA at a certain volume. They had

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terrific mid range shooters, terrific finishers at the rim, with

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the exception of use of Nurkic, who's the worst finisher

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you've ever seen, and is given the most use of Nurkich,

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who I would describe as the most frustrating net positive

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player I think I've ever watched, is probably what he

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was for the Suns last year. So yeah, we just

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like ninth best offense one of the worst turnover teams

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in the NBA. If you just add Tie and Monte

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and turn them into a top ten team in terms

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of taking care of the ball, how many points right there.

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If we consider it like a math formula, how many

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points can you ask your offensive rating? Two?

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Speaker 4: Three, four?

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Speaker 3: Like, it feels like there's a real pathway there for

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them to get into the top five as an offensive team,

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which is what they need to be if they want

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to hit their ceiling. Now what's it going to do

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for their defense and their defensive versatility and their rebounding

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and all these other things. You know, we can quibble

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about that, but yeah, these guys are going to be

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huge for the organization.

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Speaker 2: I think what helps though, is that by not turning

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the ball over and not giving you know, teams extra

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opportunities or opportunities in transition. I think they were bottom

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ten defensively after committing a turnover, and so that could

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help your defense by extension. But my question to you, Mike,

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what does this do by having Tias Jones in there?

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And we're looking at the core lineups of it all

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where you have bial and Booker and Kevin Durant. Those

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are you could stretch it if you want to with

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the definition of wing and use Devin Booker and Kevin Durant.

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We're talking about four non wings who could be a

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part of their core lineup without getting to a big

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man first, like, what does does it have a sort

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of trickle down effect with one Maybe there's a concern

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from you guys about what their core lineups look like.

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Does it portend some type of unique or heavy staggering.

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Could we see one of those guys and probably Tias,

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or could we see like a Bradley Beal maybe not

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on the floor during certain crunch times, Like what is

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just the trickle down effect of having so many important

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non wings on this team?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. The crunch time thing is is a

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conversation that we just had recently on the podcast in

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that you could see a scenario where Tias doesn't play

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in the last few minutes of a game, right, and

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then you have the big three on there, maybe with

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Grayson and Nurkic or some version of somebody off the bench.

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Maybe it's Royce O'Neil even for a little extra defense,

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or maybe Bull Bull, who knows Sam's favorite player. We'll

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get there, coming in and playing with size. But they

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were and repeated this a lot anytime the Sun's played

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on ESPN or T and T. They were the worst

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team plus minus wise in the last five minutes of

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close games in the entire NBA last season, and a

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big part of that was due to turnovers. It's hard

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to say that they brought a point guard that doesn't

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turn it over to this team and they're going to

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sit him right when the game is very important. So

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little too sorry, but like, no, absolutely, it's it's it's

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just true. So so it does have somewhat of a

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trickle down effect. We even had the conversation of would

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this team be better? And look, don't get me wrong,

279
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it's the middle of the summer, so we needed to

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come up with podcast topics. But we did have the

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conversation on our podcast of does Bradley Beal need to

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come off the bench? Now, there's no way that that's

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going to happen, there's no way, but just coming up

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with ideas or thoughts on how this could potentially work.

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That is something that has to pop in your head

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at some point in thinking about this team, because in

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some ways it's Tias Jones and you have two shooting

288
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guards and then you have Kevin Durant who plays like

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a seven foot shooting guard. So it's like three shooting

290
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guards and a big on the floor. And I think

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that's gonna it's gonna be troubling. It's hard to picture

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a team that's this small or plays this way being

293
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a contender. I mean not to jump to any future

294
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topic here, but it's hard to picture that.

295
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Speaker 3: If egos and contract considerations and all that didn't exist,

296
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and we could just arrange this like a two K rotation.

297
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It certainly feels like Tyas Jones and maybe Grace and

298
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Allen in the back court, and then you've got Booker

299
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and Katie and Nurkic fits together as a bunch of

300
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puzzle pieces who play the right roles, and then you

301
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use Bradley Beal as he gets his thirty minutes per game,

302
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but it's off the benches of micro graves score and

303
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doesn't necessarily have to close games. Again, is that gonna happen? No,

304
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we're just posing that if all of this other stuff

305
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didn't exist, if Botenholzer didn't have to consider feelings. Doesn't

306
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it feel like Dan and you can disagree, but doesn't

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it feel like maybe that would just fit a little

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bit better.

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Speaker 2: No, it'd absolutely fit better if if there wasn't any

310
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like politicism involved here, like with what Mike Bunholder has

311
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to do. I think that that's completely logical that you

312
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would think that that's their best setup and if it's not,

313
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or if they feel beholdings, so we have to play

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all three of our stars, our highest paid players, and

315
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then we want tie us out there. Could they find

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themselves like relying more than you know? I think Mike

317
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or well both you just mentioned they don't want to

318
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lean on Kevin Durant or no big lineups let's call them.

319
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But do you become more dependent on those lineups because

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you have to figure a way to fit all of

321
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those guys into the fold. While then also like we

322
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we want like someone who's considered sort of a wing

323
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checker out there.

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Speaker 4: And you know what it does more than anything else,

325
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:41,240
it makes the trade deadline. And Grayson Allen really interesting

326
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for this team because Grayson Allen I love him, and

327
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he was really good on the Suns last year. And

328
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they know there's a lot of negative publicity out there

329
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,960
for Grayson Allen and some of it deserved, but he

330
00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:53,399
was really great on the Suns last year. But he

331
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also plays the same position as Devin Booker and Bradley

332
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,519
Beal and they need some sort of positional versatility on

333
00:14:59,559 --> 00:15:01,600
this team signed a contract. He can't be traded for

334
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,720
another few weeks, but he can be traded throughout the season,

335
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and if the Suns can find a trade that makes

336
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sense where they can add real wings depth to this team,

337
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or even someone worthy of starting as a wing player,

338
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it'd be hard to turn that down if it makes

339
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sense for this team this year. It has to make

340
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sense this year.

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Speaker 3: They do also have just to remind people because I

342
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,120
know you know this stand but maybe others don't. They

343
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have an open roster spot now right, so it feels

344
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like they're going into the season. I think the likelihood

345
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that they make a trade in the next few weeks

346
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is very unlikely. But going into the season, there's a

347
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reason that the Suns have an open roster spot. They're

348
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thinking about February already and maybe some of the some

349
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of the moves that they could make.

350
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Speaker 2: What stood out the most to you about Grayson Allen

351
00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:43,200
season last year?

352
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Speaker 1: Sam?

353
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Speaker 2: I know what people have extolled the shooting, but was

354
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:48,759
there just like, was it the accuracy on that I've

355
00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:52,879
said it a few times now that his defensive responsibility

356
00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:55,440
to me was outsized and he held up, in my opinion,

357
00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:58,080
very well rel to that responsibility. So that's the thing

358
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that I think stuck out to me the most last year.

359
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 3: So look, ultimately it is My answer is the shooting

360
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,600
only because I just had to look at his player page.

361
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,519
He literally shot forty six percent on like six attempts

362
00:16:09,559 --> 00:16:12,480
a game. That is a cut above what he's done

363
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:14,200
in his career, right, I just you don't expect a

364
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,200
player to come in and give that, and even this year,

365
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,960
if he regresses back to forty, that's fine. Like you

366
00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:21,039
expect a guy to shoot forty, you don't expect a

367
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,080
guy to shoot forty six on high volume. Also, like

368
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:26,759
easily pulling up into threes. You know, we've talked a

369
00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:28,919
lot about how Grayson has a bit of a confidence issue,

370
00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:31,240
and he shot like fifty percent on pull up threes.

371
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:32,799
If he would just take that shot one or two

372
00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:35,960
more times per game, potentially there's a lot of extra

373
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,159
damage that he could do coming from a bench roll.

374
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,879
But to agree with you as well, defensive versatility was better.

375
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,080
Playmaking was great. I think he had an insists turnover

376
00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,360
ratio of over two and really took on some more

377
00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:50,600
playmaking responsibilities because of the fact that the point guard

378
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,600
position for the Suns. Last year was such a disaster

379
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:55,919
and there wasn't any traditional point guard on the entire roster.

380
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,120
The best they got for backups was Eric Gordon playing

381
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,600
the point guard position and Jordan Goodwin, and neither of

382
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:06,079
those looks very good. So yeah, Grayson just all around.

383
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,400
If he was I know you could say this about

384
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,880
so many players, but like if he was just six

385
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,119
foot seven instead of foot four, he is an awesome

386
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,319
like such a clear thirty million dollar player in today's NBA. Unfortunately,

387
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:21,119
that's just not who he is. He's just gonna be

388
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,319
an undersized wing, but he's got crazy skills.

389
00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:28,079
Speaker 2: Mike, what did we make of the Bradley Beal experience?

390
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,839
I felt like the transaction or his arrival was used

391
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:32,599
as a scapegoat for a lot of what was wrong

392
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,720
with Phoenix. I guess in some ways it could have been.

393
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:37,039
But he starts off the season injured. I thought he

394
00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:39,480
at least tried to adapt, and like they had him

395
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,119
doing a bunch of different stuff when you look at

396
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,200
over the course of the year, but like, what have

397
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,880
you just made of his overarching fit? And like what

398
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,440
will you also be looking for more of or seeing

399
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:51,359
if if x changes leading into this year.

400
00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:56,559
Speaker 4: When I dug into a lot of the stats and

401
00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:01,119
started really thinking about the season as a whole, when

402
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,640
it came to Bradley Bial, that's when I really was

403
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,079
on the side of Okay, yeah, Frank Vogel probably did

404
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,200
need to go. I don't think that. I do think

405
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,200
that Bradley Bial made a lot of effort to change

406
00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:17,839
what he was asked to do as a player, you know,

407
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,160
became more of a guy who was willing to shoot,

408
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,680
catch and shoot threes, but he was also asked to

409
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,039
be a point guard, and I don't think he was

410
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,359
very good at that. I think Bradley Beal gets a

411
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,559
lot of flack because, honestly, because they had a chance

412
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:33,519
to win one playoff game and he had some of

413
00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:36,319
the most baffling turnovers at the end of that game

414
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,279
in a way that sort of ended the season for

415
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,039
the Suns. So a lot of Suns fans just look

416
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,519
back and just remember that ending as really bad. But

417
00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:47,799
I honestly think he wasn't used very well offensively by

418
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:51,200
Frank Vogel last year, and now with multiple point guards

419
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,359
on the team, I think he could settle into a

420
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,960
more similar role to what he was doing previously when

421
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,640
he was more of an offensive superstar. It's not to

422
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,799
say that he's gonna average thirty again or anything like that,

423
00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:03,440
but if you can be a little bit better than

424
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,680
he was last year, they kind of need that out

425
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,720
of him, and you know, less responsibility to get other

426
00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:14,480
guys involved when that responsibility shifts to other players. I

427
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,640
think it's something that could really help him a lot.

428
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,519
He needs to be someone that's looking for a shot

429
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:19,440
a little bit more.

430
00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 2: Like do you think that Sam that there's gonna be

431
00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:26,960
like a skeleton key that Mike Bundholzer can play to

432
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:28,680
unlock him? Or is it, like I know you said,

433
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,119
you don't necessarily want to see him as the point

434
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,720
guard is kind of staggering him away from those lineup

435
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,599
where we're talking about, Okay, there's Tius and there's KG

436
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,400
and there's Booker. Is there like, is there like a

437
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,000
secret sauce here that could help unlock Bradley Beal in

438
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:41,759
the larger context of this team.

439
00:19:42,039 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 3: Well, the secret sauce might just be asking him to

440
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,240
take a bit of a back seat and chill out, dude, Like,

441
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:50,160
you know, we don't need you to initiate these plays

442
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,799
we're gonna put you in the same lineup as some

443
00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:55,480
other really really talented guys, and we're gonna ask you

444
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:58,359
to attack the second side, you know, after the play

445
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,240
already breaks down a little bit and the defensive rotation

446
00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:03,920
is coming and you can attack the open gaps. I think,

447
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:06,319
you know, in some ways, that's a context Thatt Bradley

448
00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:09,000
Beal should be. It's it's not that much of a

449
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,400
transition for him. He should be used to to playing

450
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,799
like that, back to you know, some of his early

451
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,680
Washington days. You know, it's it might just be the

452
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,480
fact that his days being treated as a real superstar

453
00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:23,680
are behind him, unfortunately, and you know, that's that's something

454
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,119
that hopefully he can make peace with. But I don't

455
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,839
think the expectations for Bradley Beal after the extraordinarily tragic

456
00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,440
playoff series he had, I don't think those expectations are

457
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,119
really that high. I think the expectations are very high,

458
00:20:36,759 --> 00:20:39,519
high on Kevin Durant because he's Kevin Durant and all

459
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:42,759
that his like legacy quote unquote means. And I think

460
00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:44,960
the expectations are quite high on Devin Booker, who's kind

461
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,759
of asserted himself as like the image of the Phoenix

462
00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:50,680
Suns or the franchise player or whatever. But Bradley Beal,

463
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,559
we're just asking We're just asking you to fit in

464
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,960
and not not fuck up too much, you know, like

465
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,400
fit out. It's not exactly it's it's not that common implicated.

466
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:01,799
We just want better than what we saw in the

467
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:04,079
Minnesota series. I will say I feel a lot of

468
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:06,160
sympathy for him because he's been asked to change who

469
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,599
he is a million times already and we're asking him

470
00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:12,119
to do that again. But ultimately, the Suns need him

471
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,559
to be mostly a role player this year. He's absolutely

472
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:19,839
talented enough to do that. He just needs to stay healthy.

473
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 2: I consider myself a pretty empathetic person. I do not

474
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,160
feel bad for Bradley Beale when he orchestrated his arrival here, Like,

475
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,799
you chose this situation, deal.

476
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,559
Speaker 4: With it, and the contract doesn't hurt right right. Yeah,

477
00:21:31,559 --> 00:21:33,599
I'm making fifty million dollars. I think he'll be okay.

478
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, he might be a little underpaid, I guess, but

479
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:37,519
I feel like he'll figure it out.

480
00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: Sam, I'm gonna stick with you.

481
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,079
Speaker 2: What in the hell do we make of use of

482
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,200
Nurkic's first season with Phoenix to where I was incredibly

483
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,839
low on his arrival. And I will say that DeAndre

484
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,440
eight and for three quarters of the season proved me

485
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,640
wrong just by virtue of being deandreight and in Portland.

486
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,680
But use of Nurkic exceeded my expectations for what he

487
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,079
was doing in Phoenix defensively, like we always kind of

488
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,519
knew about the playmate, we knew about what the flaws were.

489
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:03,880
But what just like or your impressions of year one

490
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:04,799
of Usif.

491
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 3: What a fascinating specimen to get to watch and analyze

492
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,359
use of Nurkic is. It's truly one of the more

493
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,920
interesting players in my seven year podcasting career that I've

494
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,279
gotten to watch for the Phoenix Suns, because objectively, if

495
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:19,839
you look at the data the Suns had I don't

496
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:21,240
have exactly in front of me, but it was like

497
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,720
a plus ten plus eleven net rating swing when Usif

498
00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:26,359
Nurkic was on the floor. Part of that is because

499
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,799
Drew Eubanks is awful and thank god he's no longer

500
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:31,279
on the team, but also part of it was legitimately

501
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:33,920
because us Off Nurkic was holding his own as a defender,

502
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,039
and you know he felt really comfortable and dropped coverage obviously,

503
00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:39,839
but a lot of vocal success was, you know, starting

504
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,960
to get him to creep up at the level of

505
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,559
the screen, hedge on some screens, use his big body

506
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:47,200
to stop the offense in its tracks. And again use

507
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,079
of Nurkic. Kevin Durant gets some credit to playing next

508
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,480
to him, but usif Nurkic was basically anchoring and above

509
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:56,839
average technically defense in the NBA, that's wild. That's not

510
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,759
what we expected him to do at all. The offense

511
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,200
is hard, man, The finishing is hard because like I

512
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,119
can't pull it up in front of me. But his

513
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,400
free throw percentage tanked because of a thumb injury halfway

514
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,160
through the season, and the numbers around the rim were

515
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,960
never good. He's not a lobb the.

516
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,799
Speaker 2: Three fifteenth percentile among big men if you care at

517
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:20,559
finishing around the rim last year, and that is not

518
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,319
the worst season that he's had. He has finished in

519
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,599
the fourth percentile before.

520
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,519
Speaker 3: Look, don't get me wrong, I love having a center

521
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:30,200
who can dribble, which for five years with DeAndre at

522
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,039
and we did not have like the ability to pass

523
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,680
to a guy in the short role and He's not

524
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:37,119
just automatically going to take the eighteen foot mid range

525
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,400
jumper every time like Aayton did. That was that's fantastic, Nirk.

526
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:42,519
Keep doing that. We need you to do that. Maybe

527
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:44,400
a little bit less this year with the introduction of

528
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,880
Tias and those other ball handlers, but we still need

529
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,240
it in general on the team right. But to not

530
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:51,440
be able to finish at the rim or shoot threes

531
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:55,079
makes it really hard to run a modern offense of

532
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,640
any sort at the NBA level. So here's what we've

533
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,480
seen from NRK so far this summer. I don't know

534
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,960
if either Mike or I trust it at all. It

535
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,880
looks like he's lost a lot of weight just from

536
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,400
the images, and it looks like he's shooting a lot

537
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,400
of threes and empty gyms and you know, getting him

538
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,480
up Mitch Robinson's style. Is any of it gonna, you know,

539
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:16,160
actually translate to you know, to the NBA floor, I'm

540
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,279
not sure, but obviously Bud has kind of transd He's

541
00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:23,079
done this before with transforming the Milwaukee Bucks because of

542
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,839
brook Lopez being his anchor, and in theory, if use

543
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,640
of Nurkic could hit that brook Lopez stage of his

544
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,960
career and suddenly shoot thirty five percent on like six

545
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,759
attempts a game. That would completely change how I feel

546
00:24:35,319 --> 00:24:37,880
about this team and about Nurkic and like how how

547
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,960
much longer he's gonna be able to stay in the NBA.

548
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,880
Do I believe that that's gonna happen. No, but it's

549
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,359
nice to dream.

550
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,519
Speaker 2: Do you think, Mike, that they're gonna have him be

551
00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:48,039
even more aggressive on defense based off him kind of

552
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,119
trimming down, because that's not really what they Mike Bunolder

553
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,119
did with Brook Lopez.

554
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I I sam thinks that they might. I think

555
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,519
that it's more likely that there he's in a drop

556
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,440
ninety five percent of the time. And I do think

557
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,200
that they could actually have a pretty good defense, you know,

558
00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:06,359
if they if they do that, because it was pretty

559
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,319
okay last year. Just like I'll mention it again, like

560
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,960
really eliminating turnovers would have had a massive difference on

561
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:16,119
their defense last year because they turned it over a lot.

562
00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:18,599
I think it was bottom seven in the NBA or

563
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,119
something like that by the end of the season, and

564
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,119
then they let the other team score. They had terrible

565
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,240
transition defense. So if you do the same thing as

566
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,960
last year, in the half court, eliminate a lot of

567
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,400
the turnovers. I think you could have potentially a top

568
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,960
ten defense on this team. So if Nurkic can, if

569
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,319
he does slim down and can get out there on

570
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:41,759
the perimeter a little bit more, I think it would

571
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:44,440
be pretty helpful. You know, this seems pretty bad at

572
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,160
rebounding though, so keeping him close to the rim it

573
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,279
doesn't hurt. He's actually a really great rebounder.

574
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,839
Speaker 3: And I'll just point out, like Nurkic last season was

575
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,799
listed at two ninety or something, right, So I'm not

576
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:57,240
talking he's not going to come in there being two

577
00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:59,400
hundred and twenty five pounds. Yeah, but it looks like

578
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:01,720
it looks like maybe he's dropped fifteen or twenty pounds,

579
00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:05,480
And any additional little bit of defensive versatility they could

580
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,559
squeak out of him would be great. In addition to offensively,

581
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:10,680
I mean, if the Suns can just find any way

582
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,559
to play five out, that modern five out, fast paced

583
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:17,279
basketball that doesn't overly rely on we need Kevin Durant

584
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,079
at the five, right, because obviously you could play Kevin

585
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,039
Durant at the five and some of their best overall

586
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:25,799
lineups and offensive lineups were doing that last year. You

587
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,240
just don't want to have to rely on that in

588
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,839
the regular season and wear out Kevin Durant. So if NRK,

589
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,000
if there's the skeleton key to unlocking NRK, then that

590
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,160
would be extraordinary. I just am not necessarily holding my breath.

591
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: There's always something with each team where I might be

592
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,200
Galaxy bringing it, and I get caught up thinking too

593
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:44,920
much about what ends up being something stupid, And I

594
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,480
think this is one of those things that are stupid.

595
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:49,640
But Mike, I would normally default to they have Tias

596
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,880
Jones' use of Nurkis's life on offense is going to

597
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,920
get better. But because he's so bad at finishing at

598
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,440
the rim and he's not considered like this exceptional play finisher,

599
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240
does Tias's Jones arrival complicate Yeah, his role on offense

600
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:03,519
at all more? And is it just as simple of like, well,

601
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:05,440
he's gonna need to finish it like at the rim

602
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,480
better or around.

603
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,319
Speaker 4: The basket better. And honestly, maybe he can finish at

604
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:11,400
the basket better with a real point guard that can

605
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,119
help set him up a little bit better than the

606
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,839
way the team was setting him up in the past.

607
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:17,680
But there was a lot of plays where Usuf Nurkic

608
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,240
was the point guard. I know it's kind of hard

609
00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:21,799
to believe for people who don't watch a lot of

610
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:23,799
the suns, but he was literally dribbling it down the

611
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:26,480
floor and transition quite a bit and the play started

612
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,200
with use of Nurkic. That makes no sense to do.

613
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,880
Now they have two point guards. They have to give

614
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,440
it to those point guards in order to provide any

615
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:37,039
value because they're not I mean, they're okay at off

616
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:39,799
ball shooters, but their main value comes from handling the

617
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:43,119
ball and passing. So used off Nurkic having to play

618
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,359
more off the ball, it's going to be a kind

619
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,799
of fascinating experiment. It's hard to believe that adding a

620
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,039
point guard that this is exactly what they want at

621
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:55,400
the center position. I think they would probably prefer to

622
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,920
have someone who screens and rolls. He's not a pick

623
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,119
and roll type player. He's great at the pickpart. He's

624
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,640
one of the best screeners in the NBA, but once

625
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,319
he gets it at the rim, if there's any help

626
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,200
at the rim, there's no guarantee that he's gonna make it.

627
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,759
If there's no help at the rim, there's no guarantee

628
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:11,880
that he's gonna make it. I do think it complicates

629
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,279
his role a little bit. When Devin Booker, Kevin Durant,

630
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,200
and Bradley Beal have the ball and use of Nurkics

631
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,200
is screening for them, everything makes sense because he's the

632
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,759
guy that catches it in the middle of the floor

633
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:25,039
and he can make those extra passes to open guys

634
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:28,440
with Tys Jones, I don't know, is Kevin Durant gonna

635
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,359
screen for them every time? Are they gonna play Bull

636
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,640
Bowl a little bit more? I'm not really sure what

637
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,640
they're gonna end up doing. I'm really interested to see

638
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,759
how the offense looks with both of them on the floor.

639
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: If I want to feel old, I'll note that Devin

640
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,119
Booker's entering year ten, which is mind helping to me?

641
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: Sam, what did we make of his year last year?

642
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: And why is he still a litmus test after all

643
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,559
this time?

644
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: For you?

645
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: No ball watchers on it like it wasn't even it's

646
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,079
going through the Olympics. It's even going through like whatever

647
00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:59,319
the Suns were doing last season. I just we weren

648
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:00,079
a decade.

649
00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:02,039
Speaker 1: Into guy's career. He shouldn't be like that's reserved for

650
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,680
the guys who were like in their first you know,

651
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:05,359
one to six seasons, whereas do you know.

652
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,599
Speaker 3: I think it's because Devin Booker is one of the

653
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,920
best NBA players at the moment, where his highlights are

654
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:17,279
just not that I mean, not that they're not fun

655
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:19,880
to watch. I obviously love watching Devin Booker highlights and

656
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,359
all the you know, Hooper stuff, but like, he's not

657
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:25,480
out there jacking up Steph Curry threes, and he's not

658
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,119
dunking like Anthony Edwards, and so I think for a

659
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,000
certain type of casual fan there's no way to get

660
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:34,240
it out there that Devin Booker really is that good,

661
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,880
except for maybe finally sitting their asses down and forcing

662
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,960
them to watch the Olympics and realizing that, oh, he

663
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,920
actually is that good.

664
00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: I Ken's confirm though, that that didn't work, because fifty

665
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,599
percent of the Bleacher we covered tm USA for Bleacher

666
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,599
Reports like streaming stuff, and my co host and I

667
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,079
spent about half of every single live session to thousands

668
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:56,400
of people trying to explain to them that no, if

669
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,400
you want to find minutes for Jason Tatum, it's not

670
00:29:58,519 --> 00:30:00,160
Devin Booker who needs to sit down.

671
00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:03,519
Speaker 1: I don't even know if watching him works for people.

672
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: Sometimes I hope. I mean, look, a lot of those

673
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,319
are just you know, crazy Celtics fans, but I hope

674
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:10,759
some people were converted. I know, especially from the media.

675
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:14,039
I've seen probably more positive coverage around Book coming out

676
00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:16,799
of that Olympic run than I've ever seen. And again,

677
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:20,119
it's crazy a decade his career has spanned a decade.

678
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:23,000
Now he's entering his tenth season. But just as for

679
00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:24,680
what he was last year, you know, I think he's

680
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,319
a superstar at the apex of his career who offensively

681
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:32,119
has figured out basically everything, and the only hole is

682
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,400
that his defense dropped off right, And Mike and I

683
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,640
have talked about a couple things with relation to that. One.

684
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,920
Was it too much offensive responsibility? Is this another case

685
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,480
of Tyas and Monte coming in? You know, we're hoping

686
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:48,680
that Book is able to have the additional energy to

687
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,240
take on some more challenging defensive assignments this year and

688
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:53,079
that you know, he'll have a bounce back year on

689
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:55,880
the defensive end, because we know he can, you know,

690
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,519
be challenged to take on difficult assignments and likes to

691
00:30:58,559 --> 00:30:59,240
play defense.

692
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:00,839
Speaker 4: But Olympics.

693
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,599
Speaker 3: He's different playoff book It wasn't. It wasn't always there

694
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,279
in the regular season last year in the way I've

695
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:09,839
come to expect it from him recently in his career.

696
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,880
And then the other thing with him is just staying healthy,

697
00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:15,920
particularly with his lower body. You know. Book Luckily at

698
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,759
this point knock on Wood in his career has not

699
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,880
had any like, uh, career altering injuries, like you know,

700
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:25,759
like season long injuries. But you know, he'll he'll strain

701
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:28,720
a calf here, and a hamstring there and and ankle there,

702
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:31,359
and that's stuff that adds up over time. And just

703
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,799
in his ability to you know, like consistently log thirty

704
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,400
five thirty six minutes and then into the forties during

705
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,519
a playoff runt. But yeah, his skill set is he's

706
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,279
as smart as he's ever been or the smartest he's

707
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:45,720
ever been in his NBA career.

708
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,519
Speaker 2: Mike, do he maybe potentially see like a return to

709
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,519
Devin Booker's roots or just like where they can get him.

710
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:53,880
I mean we already mentioned, you already mentioned movement excuse

711
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,079
me with regards to Mike Budenholzer. But now that you

712
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:58,559
have Tius Jones and is there any interesting ways you

713
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,680
envision them using the two together, because I think what

714
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,559
I think what flies out of the radar about Tis

715
00:32:03,559 --> 00:32:05,640
and especially if we're gonna measure relative to when book

716
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,000
played with CP three, like when Tyas Schones gets in

717
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,880
the like he will get off the ball a lot quicker,

718
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,759
whether he's just catching it or whether he's like starting

719
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:13,680
out the possession dribbling, And so I think there's a

720
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,079
lot of opportunities there with the way that Devin Booker

721
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,200
himself is able to move off the ball or attack

722
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:20,200
quickly off the catch, that those two could end up

723
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960
being just more deadly together than I think he has

724
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,880
really been talked about.

725
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:27,839
Speaker 4: I think it's so fascinating to ask for more of

726
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,839
Devin book Craft. He had a twenty seven and seven

727
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,799
season as far as points and assists, but I would

728
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:35,440
like him to shoot more. And I think there's a

729
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,319
possibility that having a point guard could help focus his

730
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,079
role into being more of a scorer. But if you

731
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:46,240
look at his career, it's so fascinating, Like starting in

732
00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:48,200
let's see his third year when he was twenty one

733
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,279
years old, he averaged twenty five points a game than

734
00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:52,920
twenty six and twenty six, then twenty five, then twenty six,

735
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,319
then twenty seven, than twenty seven. He's basically done the

736
00:32:56,359 --> 00:33:01,160
same thing scoring wise for seven seasons in a row,

737
00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:04,319
and I kind of feel like that's just it's like

738
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,000
it's hard to expect that to change. You know, maybe

739
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,200
there's a year where he averages twenty nine or something

740
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:11,440
like that. Maybe this is the year when he has

741
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:16,839
the kind of players around him to help clarify that

742
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,559
role a little bit, But I don't really think so.

743
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,039
It's just more for him, And it is when you

744
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:27,759
talk about the litmus test of ball know where for him,

745
00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:29,559
you look at the stats and he looks like he's

746
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:31,640
been the same player that entire time. But every year

747
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,680
there's just little things in his game that he's gotten

748
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,000
better at, and for him, it's just to continue getting

749
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:41,319
better at those little things at every point of his career.

750
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:45,599
You know, you watch the Olympics and it's fascinating to

751
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,319
see how involved Lebron James and Steph Curry particularly were

752
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,680
on that team. And some people, this is another litmus

753
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,000
test who don't know ball, would complain about that, saying

754
00:33:57,039 --> 00:33:58,759
they're old. Let's move on, Let's put some of the

755
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:01,279
younger guys in there. But what you watch when you

756
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:04,279
see them is guys who have faced every single defense

757
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,880
you can throw at them, and they have an answer

758
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,239
to all of those defenses in order to score. And

759
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,159
those are the things that I think we need to

760
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,039
get to. That's the point that I would like Devin

761
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:18,000
Booker to get to, where he just understands He's played

762
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:20,840
long enough in the NBA. He understands every defense that's

763
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,079
going to be thrown at the team, and has the

764
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:26,519
trust and understands where his teammates are going to be,

765
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:28,559
has the trust of those teammates to make the right

766
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:30,239
play in each of those scenarios. And that's what I'm

767
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,159
looking forward to seeing.

768
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,039
Speaker 2: I would do nasty things for him to set a

769
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:36,119
career high in three point attempts, though I know that's

770
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,400
just like this won't happen.

771
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 4: Though I would like.

772
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 3: Something we didn't talk about though earlier, interestingly enough, when

773
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,840
we talked about Bud, it's like, can he do the

774
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,440
thing that we've been asking for for five years and

775
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,239
we know is so important to his system and finally

776
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,280
get the Phoenix suns of all teams to shoot a

777
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,480
reasonable number threes Because we've been asking for so long,

778
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,320
but also multiple code Yeah, across multiple coaches. It was

779
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,400
a problem when they had Ricky Rubio as a point guard.

780
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:05,840
It was a problem when they had Chris Paul as

781
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,000
a point guard, and now it's a problem with Bradley

782
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,880
Beal Devin Booker sharing point guard duties. The guys just

783
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,239
don't the star players, that is, the guys who take

784
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,960
the majority of shots on this team just do not

785
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:20,960
play a modern enough style of basketball. And Bud's gonna

786
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,599
come in there and he's gonna be in their ear.

787
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:25,559
Is it gonna work? I don't know, Like, does Grace

788
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:27,400
and Allen have to shoot twelve threes a game in

789
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,760
order to get them up to a reasonable average. Because

790
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,760
say what you will about Eric Gordon too, I don't

791
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,519
think Eric Gordon had a great season for the Suns

792
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:35,760
last year. But in losing Eric Gordon, that's a decent

793
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,800
amount of three point volume that they lost that you

794
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,880
can't just necessarily replace with anybody. So they need all

795
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,480
of the role players. This is more incentive for Nurk

796
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,079
to learn how to do it. They need everyone to

797
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,880
chip in and play their part. And of course, with

798
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,639
Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and to an extent, Bradley Beal.

799
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:54,159
The midrange game is who they are. They're so good.

800
00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:56,000
You can't take it all away from them. But if

801
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:58,119
all those guys would just take one more a game,

802
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,920
just a little bit, that's all you really need, because

803
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,840
there's a math game that the Suns have been consistently

804
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,239
losing for years now with not taking enough of those attempts.

805
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a hot take, but

806
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,920
actually one of my predictions for them is that they're

807
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,519
going to be in the top ten of three point

808
00:36:14,559 --> 00:36:16,360
attempt right for like the first time in almost a

809
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,400
decade because because of what Mike Bundholzer likes to do

810
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,559
on offense, where it's predicated a lot of times around

811
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:26,599
rim pressure, the Suns just don't have that organically in

812
00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:29,159
their half court offense. And like the easier thing is

813
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:31,599
when you look at their personnel is the threes need

814
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:33,199
to be jacked up. And so I think that he'll

815
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:36,360
find a way to coax more aggregate three point volume

816
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,280
out of not just the big three, but the entire team,

817
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,079
because like, oddly enough, this team is so good, but

818
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:45,559
like it's not really tailored to like his preferred offensive tenants,

819
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:47,840
and I think the only way to resolve that is

820
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,920
going to be with or earn some way is going

821
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,239
to reconcile it with a three point volume.

822
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I was mentioning earlier, Like, you know,

823
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,920
you've got a guy like Monte Morris traditionally a pretty

824
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,320
solid three point shooter, but has a big mid range

825
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,000
game in his in his bag, and like maybe his

826
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,400
budget's gonna come in and with guys like that, just

827
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,639
acts all of it and say no layups and threes.

828
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:08,960
That's all you're doing now as you run the offense,

829
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,239
like for fifteen minutes a game. Guy like Bull Bull

830
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,599
shot forty two forty three percent from deep last year

831
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,199
on low volume, But this year, is he going to

832
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,599
be encouraged to suddenly take four a game in like

833
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:22,440
eighteen minutes? Like I could see that. So yeah, there's

834
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,760
got to be a way for him to crack that formula.

835
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,480
But it's gonna take some creativity.

836
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 4: For sure.

837
00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:30,159
Speaker 2: He could not beat the mid range game out of

838
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,400
Chris Middleton though, so like maybe maybe I'm gonna be.

839
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: Wrong on that front.

840
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant, you guys kind of already went through his

841
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:37,159
offensive struggles.

842
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,159
Speaker 1: I was pretty hard.

843
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:40,639
Speaker 2: I didn't think he was playing that good on defense,

844
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,760
Like the first I don't know if it was a

845
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,800
quarter of a season or fifteen games or whatever, And

846
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,559
I don't know if I just wasn't watching closely enough

847
00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:48,199
or watching enough at all, But Mike, like, what did

848
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:50,400
he wind up meaning to this team defensively?

849
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 4: By the end of the year, I think his def

850
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:56,280
I agree with you. Actually, I think the conversation on

851
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,199
his defense has been somewhat confusing to me. But I

852
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:04,000
do think over time that role started to make more

853
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:06,039
sense than what he was asked to do as being

854
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,639
sort of the guy that was the off ball roam

855
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,199
or rim protector that could help at the rim. And

856
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,920
I think he did get pretty good at that as

857
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,440
the season rolled along. It's it's hard to look at

858
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,639
what they did defensively and not give him a lot

859
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:23,880
of credit because, you know, as we talked about in

860
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,280
the half court, they did have a top ten defense

861
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,360
and he was a big important part of that. And it, honestly,

862
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,920
it just comes down to the fact that they play

863
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,800
so small and he's seven feet tall, so they need

864
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,000
a guy that's seven feet tall to kind of be

865
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:39,880
seven feet tall. Sometimes defensively, and I think he got

866
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,519
pretty good at that.

867
00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 3: What was is there?

868
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: Like Sam, I'm here to pick one factor that contributed

869
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,920
to their I would say overachieving on defense relative to

870
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,760
their personnel you look at there was a lot of

871
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,559
low hanging fruit stuff. I thought that they were one

872
00:38:51,559 --> 00:38:53,960
of the better teams the half court, kind of scurrying

873
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,400
around and avoiding mismatches.

874
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: But like, what was the was there?

875
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,159
Speaker 2: If you had to boil it down to just one

876
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,280
driving factor or one thing that stood out the most

877
00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:02,559
about their defensive performance, what would it be?

878
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,119
Speaker 3: I gues I would go back to kind of something

879
00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:08,159
similar to what I said before and maybe say the

880
00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:10,800
most surprising aspect of it to me was Nurk. I

881
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,440
really was impressed with the way that Nirk held it down.

882
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,679
And again, a huge amount of his success can be

883
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,880
attributed to KD playing the role that Mike was just

884
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,760
talking about. So when Nirk is, you know, not a

885
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,559
failsafe by himself on defense, KD is there to fill

886
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,480
in the gaps as a weak side defender when he's motivated.

887
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,800
There's still there are few players as good as KD

888
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,960
still at filling that role. But when you look at

889
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:36,360
the relative lack of size that this team had on

890
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,480
the perimeter, playing guys like Grayson Allen and Royce O'Neil

891
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:41,440
and all these other six four sixty three players on

892
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,320
the perimeter a lot. What Nurk and KD were able

893
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,519
to do teamed up together on the back end was

894
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:49,079
really really impressive, and we're going to need to continue

895
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:51,920
to see it because they did not give them any

896
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,760
additional size to work with on the wing going into

897
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:55,159
this year.

898
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,679
Speaker 2: I honestly if we can get into a couple of

899
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,840
their youngsters really quickly, Mike, do you have any impressions

900
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,400
offensive superstar Ryan Dunn?

901
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:05,079
Speaker 1: That was sarcasm to think.

902
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,119
Speaker 4: Before before the draft, I told Sam Ryan Dune is

903
00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:14,440
the best defensive prospect in the draft, right And Sam

904
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:17,480
said yes, And we've gotten confirmation from draft guys that

905
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:19,519
he was the best defensive prospect in the draft.

906
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:22,079
Speaker 3: But my question we've gotten we've gotten some people who

907
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:24,920
have told us that he's the best defensive prospect they've

908
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,800
seen in like ten years. That was something that someone

909
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,800
said I would.

910
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: Need to go back and look, but I need to

911
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,400
know someone his size who had a block rate for

912
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,840
two years in college that he did like I.

913
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: Don't know that I've ever seen anything like that before.

914
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 4: My question is Sam, before he was drafted, was is

915
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,800
he also the worst offensive prospect in the draft? And

916
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,679
I think he was? I really think he was.

917
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 3: I think he's I think he's not because of Brownie,

918
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,360
but I think he's the second worst offensive prospect in

919
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:51,719
the draft.

920
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,079
Speaker 4: Probably. Yeah. So you know, it's the expectations have to

921
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,559
be in the right place for everyone watching Ryan Dune

922
00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:02,360
this year in that unless they find the absolute perfect

923
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,119
role for him offensively, it's gonna be tough for him

924
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:06,880
to get a ton of minutes on this team. But

925
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,199
they also don't really have a player like him. The

926
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,519
closest they have is Joshua Kogi, who's a good few

927
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:15,760
inches shorter than Ryan Dunn. So to have a taller,

928
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,000
lengthy defender that could potentially protect the rim as a

929
00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:24,440
help side defender or even guard like guards on the

930
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,920
other team, like star guards, is pretty valuable. So if

931
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,960
they can find a way to develop any sort of

932
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,960
offense out of him, I consider this a pretty great pick.

933
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,039
I'm excited to watch him. I just think really high

934
00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:39,639
effort defenders tend to raise the overall effort of the team,

935
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:42,320
and if you watch the transition defense last year by

936
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,719
the Suns, they needed someone to raise their effort quite

937
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,239
a bit. So you know, I'm excited about watching him,

938
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,920
but I think my expectations are in the right place

939
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,239
for him.

940
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:54,199
Speaker 3: They also just get fans involved. Let's not forget, like

941
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,639
the Suns have who won the I don't know if

942
00:41:56,679 --> 00:42:00,719
you track this, Dan They've got the Dan Harley Hustle

943
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,239
Award for the Suns is something that they give to

944
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,159
like the player who showed the most hustle every year.

945
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:06,480
They've been doing this for like a decade.

946
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 4: P J.

947
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 3: Tucker one in a million times, and Josh Kogie got it.

948
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,400
I think Grayson Grayson Allen won it last year, which

949
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:17,360
all due respect to Grayson Allen but is kind of tragic.

950
00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:20,039
And maybe just to sign that the Suns they needed

951
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:23,400
to sign someone or sorry, draft someone like Ryan Dunn

952
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:25,639
just to get the fans involved to make those high

953
00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:29,199
effort plays. Uh that that really get people to hit

954
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,000
another level of energy as they're watching, add some like.

955
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,039
Speaker 1: Variable cadence to the way they could play full floor.

956
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:35,559
Speaker 2: I know they play a little bit faster I think

957
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:38,119
than people understand, but like that's just someone who will

958
00:42:38,119 --> 00:42:38,760
get up the floor.

959
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: Based off what little.

960
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: I've seen from him, sam any early impressions on I've

961
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:43,679
fallen in love with him.

962
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: Ohzoe Gadaro, he's gonna be starting by a season, Zeen noo.

963
00:42:48,039 --> 00:42:51,079
I'm kidding, but well, you said you basic last year.

964
00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 2: You both told me to go watch more closely to

965
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,320
Manti Kamara film afterwards. I did fell in love with him,

966
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,559
and the Sun has traded him.

967
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did, and he was he was fun last

968
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,000
another tragedy propect though.

969
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 3: That's why I'm still I'm still worried because it's not

970
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,960
We're recording this still a month before the season actually begins,

971
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,559
and look, you never know. I am just so thrilled

972
00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:13,159
that the Sons have actual youth for us to talk about,

973
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,159
and not just one player, but to what a privilege,

974
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:19,000
what a world we live in, to Mani Kamara is,

975
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,400
to many Kamara. Ohso a Gadaro is going to be

976
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,039
really interesting. I am worried. I'll just be frank. I'm

977
00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,599
worried about his ability to like actually play center at

978
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:31,840
the NBA level, at least as a rookie until he

979
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,639
adds like twenty pounds. We know he brings some of

980
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:38,239
the vertical gravity, which is great, that something NRK absolutely

981
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,199
cannot do. But can he rebounds? Like, can he be

982
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:44,880
an effective defensive rebounder? Can he actually play and drop

983
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,440
coverage against bigger bodies? I don't know, we're going to

984
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,280
see it. We're going to see it eventually. But the

985
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,280
short roll stuff is real. He was playing that Nurk

986
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,400
role in Summer League where he was the guy dribbling

987
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,440
the ball up the floor and essentially being the point guard,

988
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,559
and honestly, his playmaking shops already we were really impressive

989
00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:08,679
even at the summer league level. So OsO has How

990
00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:11,559
would I put it? I would say, like Ryan Dunn

991
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:14,519
that there's a reason that Done was drafted, like what

992
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,559
was it, fifteen spots ahead of OsO? But I could

993
00:44:17,639 --> 00:44:20,239
see a world where, especially because the Suns only have

994
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,480
two other bigs, They've got Nurkic and they've got Plumbly.

995
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,599
I don't know, I could see a world where OsO

996
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,880
is actually playing real minutes kind of on this team

997
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,280
before Ryan Done. Like do you disagree with that?

998
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,079
Speaker 4: No? No, I think that makes sense just from the

999
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:37,559
depth conversation conversation alone, I don't think Bull Bull can

1000
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:40,679
play center. You know, I just don't think.

1001
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: I ask about Bull Bull already.

1002
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,199
Speaker 1: Dan, what the next question on my outline?

1003
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,519
Speaker 3: I've been waiting so patiently.

1004
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,039
Speaker 2: I'm gonna use it as a way to like sand

1005
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:54,079
which a bunch of players into here. So, can you

1006
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:57,400
guys rank how these players how important they are going

1007
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,239
to be the Suns this season? Between bull Ball and

1008
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,400
Done oh So, Damian Lee, Monte Morris, Josha Kogi, and

1009
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,639
Mason Plumbley, who.

1010
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 3: Do you want to go first?

1011
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: I think let's throw it to Sam because he's gonna

1012
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:11,239
put bow Bol at number one.

1013
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 4: I'm really curious if you will, because I'm gonna debate

1014
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:14,239
that if he doesn't.

1015
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 3: Actually, you know what I think. I think there's a

1016
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:18,280
solid argument for Montey Morris to be number one. There

1017
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:21,079
is that, not who you were thinking for number one.

1018
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,679
Speaker 4: I think that Monte Morris and Mason Plumbley are the

1019
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,599
only two players that for sure have a role on

1020
00:45:26,639 --> 00:45:30,480
this team. Yeah, I think everyone else you could you

1021
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:33,519
could question whether or not they do. But after that,

1022
00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:36,400
the most likely is Bull Bull. By the way, it

1023
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,079
was the only one of these guys who were really

1024
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:39,000
effective last year.

1025
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 3: We talked about feeling bad for Bradley Beal earlier. If

1026
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,320
there's anyone on this team you should actually feel bad for,

1027
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,119
it's definitely Monte Morris. Because Monte Morris signed. Montey Morris

1028
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:50,679
signed on a minimum, and there is no chance, absolutely

1029
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,559
no chance that he or his agent thought that they

1030
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:54,760
would go out because the Sons didn't even realize that

1031
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,079
Tias was a possibility. At least that's what it feels like.

1032
00:45:58,079 --> 00:45:59,079
They would never you know.

1033
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 2: I think, look, I think people in the know were

1034
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,079
shocked at how the market shook out this year. I

1035
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,840
don't think anyone first saw how scared and confused teams

1036
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:09,320
were gonna be.

1037
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: I think what happened there was the Suns really thought

1038
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:14,079
Tias was just gonna be an MLA guy and wrote

1039
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:16,800
him off and said, let's get Monte Morris. That's that's

1040
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,880
the number one point guard on our target list, the

1041
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,519
best guy we can get lo and behold. Three weeks later,

1042
00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:24,079
Tyas Jones is available, also for a minimum, and now

1043
00:46:24,119 --> 00:46:26,679
Montey Morris is sitting here going what the fuck I get?

1044
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,519
Because now he's like a fifteen to eighteen minute per

1045
00:46:29,519 --> 00:46:31,480
game backup guy, and I think he's gonna excel in

1046
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:34,639
that role. I would put Monte first in that list

1047
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:36,639
that you presented to us, but I think Bull Bowl

1048
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,400
is number two. Here's the thing about bull Bull though,

1049
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,960
since you're letting me, letting me get on my soapbox.

1050
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,760
His worst minutes last year were at center. He's not

1051
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,519
a center. We can't force him to be a center.

1052
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,519
But if you can play him next to a center.

1053
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,760
He fits next to so many different guys for two reasons. One,

1054
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,639
his defensive role is clear. You put him if there's

1055
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:57,039
any bad shooter, for instance, on the other team, you

1056
00:46:57,079 --> 00:46:59,000
just stick him on the bad shooter. He fills up

1057
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,199
all the all the open space in rooms around. But

1058
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:05,719
this facts that he can also shoot, and boy can

1059
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,320
he shoot. He had a seventy percent true shooting season

1060
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,320
last year. I know is low volume, but seventy percent

1061
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,480
true shooting, terrific touch around the basket over forty percent

1062
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,280
from deep. The fact that he can shoot really allows

1063
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,280
you to play him at power forward next two non

1064
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,360
shooters like Yusuf Nurkic, like Mason Plumley, like OsO Gadaro,

1065
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,079
like Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is a shooter, but he

1066
00:47:25,079 --> 00:47:27,199
could play next to Kevin Durant as well. There are

1067
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,000
so many potential lineup combinations for the Suns to have

1068
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:33,119
buwl Bull at the four. I think he's actually set

1069
00:47:33,199 --> 00:47:36,679
up to have a really interesting season where maybe he

1070
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,559
is the second most important guy on that list, and

1071
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:41,239
then I would put Plumbley third. Who else is there?

1072
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,679
Josh Koge, Damian Lee, and the two rookies.

1073
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: I guess you just you're not writing it off, but

1074
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,800
like it's very unlikely that any one of the two

1075
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,400
rookies can kind of like wedge their way into being

1076
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,480
important to this team.

1077
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,159
Speaker 3: No, I think they totally could, but it's it's gonna

1078
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:00,320
be tough. I'll put it this way. It's it's a

1079
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,360
good sign for the Suns that Joshakogi and Damien Lee

1080
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,880
who are on this list. Those are two guys who

1081
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:08,639
damianly missed last year dude injury. But two years ago

1082
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,280
both of those guys played like fifteen hundred minutes for

1083
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,519
this team and now we're talking about them as like

1084
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,000
guys number eleven and twelve, twelve and thirteen in the

1085
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,599
depth charts something like that, right, So that's a great

1086
00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:23,159
place for them to be in depth. From the death perspective,

1087
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,320
compared to where they were, say when they lost to

1088
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,599
Denver playing Terrence Ross in the playoffs.

1089
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:31,679
Speaker 2: You know, Mike, would you care to throw any more

1090
00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:33,480
praise at Bubul while we're here.

1091
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,039
Speaker 4: I'm excited for Bobol as well. I think Sam said

1092
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:41,039
he can shoot. He shot well for one season, so

1093
00:48:41,159 --> 00:48:44,719
I'm kind of scared that that's real or not, you know,

1094
00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:47,159
because we kind of really need it to be in

1095
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,400
order for him to play a role. It was interesting

1096
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,840
to watch him last year because he was really great

1097
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,280
and there were times where he like he was like

1098
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,880
changing games when they put him in off the bench.

1099
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,199
First of all, the crowd loved him, but also his

1100
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,119
defense really really made a difference. And if you play

1101
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:06,320
him Kevin Durant, Bull Bull plus a center, that's huge.

1102
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:09,159
That's like a massive, massive lineup. It's the only way

1103
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:13,360
for the Suns to play big. But he still couldn't

1104
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,880
play in the playoffs. I think maybe Vogel probably should

1105
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,400
have tried him, but he still couldn't really play in

1106
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,280
the playoffs because it's hard to rely on his defense

1107
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,119
for long stretches against great teams. So I do wonder

1108
00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:30,679
we just really needed shooting to be great. If she's

1109
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,639
also sustained at forty three point shooting. Then he has

1110
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:35,960
a role in the NBA and could potentially have a

1111
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:36,719
role in the playoffs.

1112
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 3: He's he's the Pokemon evolution of Michael Porter Junior. Congratulations.

1113
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 2: I think I was gonna say he's based off how

1114
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,480
I expect Bud to use him defensively, even how the

1115
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,880
Suns used him last year, especially like post February or

1116
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,679
whatever it was. Uh, he's gonna well, actually, I'm expecting

1117
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,599
now Sam to call him Giannis with a jump shot.

1118
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yiannis with a bag. That's that's what he's

1119
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,719
gonna be. God, I hope no Bugs fans listen to this.

1120
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:03,159
I just want to also say, seventy seven percent free

1121
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:05,239
throw shooter over the past two years combined when he's

1122
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,599
played actual minutes with Orlando and Phoenix. So you know,

1123
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:10,599
it's good to have. It's a privilege to have bigs

1124
00:50:10,599 --> 00:50:12,480
who can actually make their free throws. Does that mean

1125
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:14,960
that the three point shooting is real? No, not necessarily,

1126
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:17,840
but I think it's just you know, another data point

1127
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,119
of evidence in the Bowl Bowl camp.

1128
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: If he's going to be playing a bunch is that

1129
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,280
I guess whose role does that impact the most when

1130
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,639
you're looking at the resorts, Like, is Mason Plumley's in that?

1131
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 4: I don't think it.

1132
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 3: Like if we look at the five, like let's say

1133
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,840
Bud does something really simple and just wants five guys

1134
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,800
all at different positions, runs a ten man rotation. There's

1135
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,960
a really natural group of five guys of Monte Morris, Grayson,

1136
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,960
Allen Royce, O'Neil bull Bowl, and Mason Plumley, And that's

1137
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,199
one guy at each position, and they all naturally fit

1138
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:48,119
into those roles.

1139
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 4: It's Joshakog the now if.

1140
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 3: You want to throw in Joshua Kogi or if you

1141
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,960
want to throw in Ryan Dunn or ohso now because

1142
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,599
you've got to figure something out, it becomes a little

1143
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,039
bit more difficult. But I think the five most talented

1144
00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:03,239
players off the bench are Morris, Allen, Royce, and plum Lee,

1145
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,800
all four guys who like literally have been starters in

1146
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,280
the past. And then your wild card is Bulbul the

1147
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:09,960
upside guy.

1148
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:12,199
Speaker 2: Are you guys ready to enter the Cookie Cutter Dead

1149
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:13,199
Sprint portion?

1150
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure is there? Mike?

1151
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 2: Is there anything about this team that's flying under the

1152
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,599
radar that we haven't talked about that you think needs

1153
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:21,280
to be discussed.

1154
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:26,599
Speaker 4: I honestly think the change from Frank Vogel to Bud

1155
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,000
maybe is a little bit underrated by people who didn't

1156
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,920
watch much of the Suns last year. I think that's

1157
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,400
a bigger change than people are realizing.

1158
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: Sam.

1159
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: Anything else, I'm inclined to agree with that something we're

1160
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,760
underrating about this team. I think this team has a

1161
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,760
target on It's not even a target on its back.

1162
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,480
It's just I feel like not a lot of people

1163
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:51,159
are currently thinking about this team really as deserving to

1164
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:53,079
be in the upper echelon of the Western Conference. And

1165
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:55,079
I can't say I blame anyone for feeling that way.

1166
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:58,679
But they need to get their offensive juice back. Hopefully

1167
00:51:58,679 --> 00:51:59,840
we see it if they want to get back in

1168
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:00,559
the top four.

1169
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: Sam, you have the ability right now, before watching any games,

1170
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,800
to address one need on this roster. What is the

1171
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,280
specific need that you're addressing.

1172
00:52:07,639 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 3: God, they need wing size. They need wing size. I mean,

1173
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,800
if I could just take roy O'Neil honestly and just

1174
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,159
add four inches to his height, then that's what I

1175
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:15,559
would do.

1176
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 4: It's Joyne Phinney Smith, That's who that is.

1177
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,519
Speaker 3: So here's the thing, I want I want wing size,

1178
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:23,760
but I don't want to trade Grayson Allen to get it.

1179
00:52:24,519 --> 00:52:27,639
So that's why this becomes basically an impossible task. And

1180
00:52:27,679 --> 00:52:30,840
I also don't think, unfortunately that usif nurkicas any trade value.

1181
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,639
This is something we've talked about before Dan, So yeah,

1182
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:35,639
it's it's one thing to want things and it's another

1183
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:38,239
thing to get them. We don't always get what we want.

1184
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,599
And this is a conversation that we're going to be

1185
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:44,519
having add nauseam until February. Can the Suns add more size?

1186
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,440
To what extent do they need size to succeed against

1187
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:48,679
bigger teams of the playoffs?

1188
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:50,039
Speaker 1: Do you, Mike?

1189
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 2: Would you not that you expect, but do you think

1190
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,320
this team is serious about like they would put their

1191
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,360
twenty thirty one draft pick on the table?

1192
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:59,159
Speaker 4: I have zero doubt that they would. Yes, I have

1193
00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:59,880
zero doubt.

1194
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:03,599
Speaker 2: Would you trade that pick for Tari Easton and Dylan Brooks?

1195
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:05,599
Speaker 3: Oh, Dylan Brooks.

1196
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 4: That's interesting. Who who's going to.

1197
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: The kids to be?

1198
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: I think would have to be Grayson or actually Dylan

1199
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,119
Brooks I ever got makes too much money. But my

1200
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,880
thing is has always been that I want Tar Easton

1201
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,119
On this team and that the Houston Rockets have already

1202
00:53:21,159 --> 00:53:24,239
kind of shorted Phoenix's future, so why not continue to

1203
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:24,519
do so?

1204
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 3: No Taras, Yeah, tar Easton would be fun, but like

1205
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,199
you're saying, I don't think we can get Brooks, So.

1206
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,559
Speaker 4: I mean, theoretically, I don't think I would do that. Well, actually,

1207
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:34,840
you know what, I probably would.

1208
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: I would do it again, I'm not I'm not watching

1209
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,599
all eighty three of eighty two Sons games a year.

1210
00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:43,679
Speaker 4: So it's just tough because Grayson was the most consistent

1211
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,480
guy last year. Like, if we're talking about transition defense,

1212
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,559
there's so often that somebody scores at the rim on

1213
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:51,599
the other team against the Suns, and the only one

1214
00:53:51,639 --> 00:53:54,440
running back is Grayson Allen, and it's tough to want

1215
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,199
to trade that guy. You know, That's what got him

1216
00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:57,639
the Dan Marley Hustle Award.

1217
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:00,519
Speaker 1: This team is at full strength. We kind of gott

1218
00:54:00,519 --> 00:54:01,239
into this a little bit.

1219
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: But Sam is like, what does the top ten rotation

1220
00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:04,800
look like at full strength?

1221
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's so. The starting five is Tyas Jones,

1222
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:13,199
Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Yusef Nerkic. First five

1223
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,320
off the bench, like, like I just said, is Monte

1224
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,679
Morris Well Grayson Allen being the first one off the bench.

1225
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,599
But it's Monte Morris, Grayson Allen, Royce, O'Neil, Bowl, Bull,

1226
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,199
Mason Plumley. I'm doing it in order of position, right

1227
00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:27,880
point guard through center. Those are the ten guys and

1228
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,360
everyone else has to prove it. Josha Kogi, We've given

1229
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,119
you a lot of minutes in the past couple of years.

1230
00:54:32,119 --> 00:54:33,800
We even gave you a contract extension, so.

1231
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,679
Speaker 1: There's allow a lot of money so.

1232
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:39,079
Speaker 3: That you're eligible to be traded mid season here potentially,

1233
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,400
no more pity minutes for Josh. I love Josha Kogy.

1234
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,239
He's really fun to watch, but no more pity minutes.

1235
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,880
You need to be able to shoot if you want

1236
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,400
to prove that you can be on the court.

1237
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

1238
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 3: Damian Lee, I think is a great shooter, but he's

1239
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,960
not going to be guaranteed any minutes. And then the

1240
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,840
two rookies. I would love for one of them to

1241
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:58,719
shove their way into that rotation somehow, but it's just

1242
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,639
it's it's not going to be in an at ability

1243
00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:01,320
for either of them.

1244
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 2: Mike, I think for this team more than most the

1245
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,920
crunch time stuff will be very matchup dependent. But if

1246
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:08,840
I force you to choose, and I am forcing you

1247
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,760
to choose, what is going to be their go to

1248
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:11,760
crunch time lineup?

1249
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 4: Uh, I think it'll probably be the starting five. Okay,

1250
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,320
I would not mind a scenario with Kevin Durant at

1251
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,280
center a little bit more, but I don't think they're

1252
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,079
gonna do that in the regular season very much, just

1253
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:27,800
because Kevin Durant is getting up there in age and uh,

1254
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:30,360
you know it's hard to play center a lot.

1255
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 3: Can I say, can I just so when kd plays

1256
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,039
at the five? Because I do think they're gonna do that,

1257
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:38,840
Who's who becomes the fifth? Who are you replacing Nirk with?

1258
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,599
Is it Grayson or is it Yeah?

1259
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 4: I would think it would be Grayson. And I think

1260
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,880
there's even a scenario where Grayson and Royce O'Neil are

1261
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,119
playing in Tyas Jones and Nurkic sit. Yeah, it'd be

1262
00:55:49,199 --> 00:55:51,800
Devin Booker, Grayson Allen Roys, O'Neil, Kevin Durant.

1263
00:55:52,119 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's your best.

1264
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,519
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant at the five line up, by the way,

1265
00:55:55,679 --> 00:55:56,960
is the one that you just mapped out.

1266
00:55:57,039 --> 00:55:59,039
Speaker 3: That's that's your most I mean again, we talk about

1267
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:01,119
these guys are like six and how great would it

1268
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:03,559
be if they were all six seven? But look, that's

1269
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:06,480
just the NBA. That's your most switchable lineup for sure.

1270
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:09,199
Speaker 4: It's also one of the only five out lineups you

1271
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:10,239
can create on this team.

1272
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 3: Right, it's five out, it's switchable. That's your Like, let's

1273
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,039
try and play a little bit like the Celtics lineup.

1274
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:16,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam, we'll start with you.

1275
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,199
Speaker 2: Is there a funky, weirdo, offbeat lineup you would like

1276
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:20,199
to see this team try?

1277
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, give me Ryan Dunn, Bull Bull and KD in

1278
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:26,519
the same front court. That would be fun. So let's

1279
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,599
just wreak defensive chaos everywhere. And I don't know, maybe

1280
00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:32,760
that lineup would need like a point guard like Tius

1281
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,400
or something too, But I want length. I want length

1282
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,239
Ryan done. Can he do anything offensively? I don't know.

1283
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,559
We're gonna find out, but his defense to offense would

1284
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:44,400
be really fun. I know Bull Bull can do that,

1285
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,880
I know KD can do that. Putting all those guys

1286
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,679
assembling them into the same unit, what's the net rating

1287
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,800
gonna be? I have no idea, but I'm gonna have fun.

1288
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,639
Every minute watching that, Mike, do you have one?

1289
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,039
Speaker 4: Honestly, if it's hard not to put bull Bull in them,

1290
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:02,480
but some sort of Ryan done Bull Bull KD lineup

1291
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:05,400
is exactly right. I think you can find a scenario

1292
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,719
where Ryan Dunn essentially gets to play center. He's the

1293
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,000
guy like setting the screen and rolling to the rim,

1294
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:14,119
and you don't have to worry about him shooting because

1295
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:17,400
you potentially have four other shooters around him, and then

1296
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,679
you just try to see how good that defense could

1297
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,079
potentially be and just roll with that and give it

1298
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:22,480
a try.

1299
00:57:23,159 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: You know, I initially had Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Grayson

1300
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,079
Allen and the two rookies, but you guys might have

1301
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:30,400
talked me into subbing out Grayson Allen for Bull Bull, and.

1302
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 3: We actually Ryan. I mean, it would be really fun

1303
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,039
to watch the rookies as far as I can tell,

1304
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:37,519
Like they're good guys that get along together already, So

1305
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:40,320
getting some minutes of Ryan, Don Andoso together would be fun.

1306
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,800
And I do think it could potentially work the two

1307
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:43,480
of them together.

1308
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:47,199
Speaker 4: Put Bull Bull there too to help add some size.

1309
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:49,880
You're saying quirky and unconventional. How could you not put

1310
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:50,519
bull bull in it.

1311
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah maybe Okay, guys, as we record this, they're over

1312
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:56,559
under set at forty seven and a half wins.

1313
00:57:56,639 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: Mike, are you taking the over the under?

1314
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 4: I would take the over. I think that it's coach

1315
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,119
Bud and he just wins a lot of games in

1316
00:58:05,159 --> 00:58:08,440
the regular season pretty consistently, so it's it's tough to uh,

1317
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:11,440
tough to take the under on that. But you know,

1318
00:58:11,519 --> 00:58:13,000
they and they won more last year.

1319
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:15,719
Speaker 2: They won, They're gonna be this is weird. I wonder

1320
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,360
what the rationale is. But behind lowering their total compared

1321
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:20,239
to last year.

1322
00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 4: It's my thought, I think Memphis is going to be better.

1323
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,480
Like you know, I think there's I get it.

1324
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 3: My theory is just that it's Memphis coming for vengeance

1325
00:58:28,639 --> 00:58:30,920
in addition to the blood bath that the West already is.

1326
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,159
What's what's okay, c's over under do you have that

1327
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:34,760
in front of you? Is at like seventy two and

1328
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:35,079
a half?

1329
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: Half? That is high?

1330
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:41,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's high, but look, that's how good people expect

1331
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:44,239
that team to be. So there is some level of

1332
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,440
depletion in the West going on where it's just like

1333
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:48,760
you're not expected to win a ton of games. That said,

1334
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,920
we won forty nine last year, and I think our

1335
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,480
depth is just objectively better, so I would take I

1336
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,280
would take the over on forty seven and a half.

1337
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: Okay, Sam, this is not a portion for the Raw

1338
00:58:58,039 --> 00:59:01,079
Raw fans. But which teams the West right now? Are

1339
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:04,079
you going to guarantee are better than the Suns? Or

1340
00:59:04,119 --> 00:59:06,519
you and Mike could you collectively come to there?

1341
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good idea, He's okay See.

1342
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:13,039
Speaker 3: I would guarantee okay See is better than the Suns.

1343
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,239
And I have lots and lots of respect for other teams,

1344
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,400
teams that have beat us in previous playoffs, the Minnesota Timberwolves,

1345
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,039
the Denver Nuggets, But if you ask me to guarantee

1346
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,199
that all those other teams are better than the Suns,

1347
00:59:26,239 --> 00:59:28,199
I'm not gonna do it. I think the only team

1348
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:29,719
I guarantee is okay See.

1349
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 4: I think I agree because you could say Denver, because

1350
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,079
Denver has a better, you know, top best player, but

1351
00:59:35,159 --> 00:59:38,880
they have just taken beatings on their depth over the

1352
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,639
last seas. Den Dallas of course made the Dallas made

1353
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:46,960
the finals last year. But I know it's tough to say.

1354
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: I don't know who I'll end up guarantee, but I

1355
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,519
think Dallas and okayc for me, I'm pretty high on

1356
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:54,199
Dallas at the moment. But I also think if you

1357
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:55,519
told me the Suns are just the best team in

1358
00:59:55,519 --> 00:59:57,559
the Western Conference, I wouldn't beatt and I either.

1359
00:59:58,280 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.

1360
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 3: They've got a low ceiling too though, right, that's the thing. Yes,

1361
01:00:02,119 --> 01:00:04,840
I feel like we've got we've got more variants here

1362
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:05,800
than maybe most of the team.

1363
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, they could be they could miss the playoffs, or

1364
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:11,519
they could be the best team in the West, and

1365
01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:14,119
neither of those would be like entirely surprising.

1366
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: Guys, Is there anything, any one, anything at all I

1367
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,280
didn't ask you about that you would like to discuss

1368
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:21,360
before I let Uskadado.

1369
01:00:22,719 --> 01:00:25,039
Speaker 3: You always come to be so prepared to that, honestly

1370
01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:28,079
that I think these are outstanding questions, and.

1371
01:00:28,119 --> 01:00:30,679
Speaker 4: I think you covered it all. The one thing that

1372
01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:33,360
didn't come up, and I appreciate this, don't get me wrong,

1373
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:38,320
this entire conversation the second apron. So I appreciate the

1374
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,119
fact that we didn't have to talk about the second

1375
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:42,119
apron at all on this podcast. Dan, thank you for that.

1376
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 2: Well, they didn't run and hide from it like a

1377
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,400
certain team in Colorado, so I applaud them for that.

1378
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: Mike, we'll start with you.

1379
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,559
Speaker 2: Can you just tell our listeners quickly where they can

1380
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:53,440
find you and all the fantastic work that you do

1381
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,559
and if you both yeah, love the podcast, that's great too.

1382
01:00:55,639 --> 01:00:58,519
Speaker 4: Yeah. Our podcast is called The Timeline of Phoenix Sun's podcast.

1383
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:01,000
You can find it on all of of the audio

1384
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,760
podcast apps. Check it out subscribe. We cover the Phoenix

1385
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,280
Suns pretty exclusively, but we also have a podcast we

1386
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,960
just recorded about Adrian Roganowski and him retiring that maybe

1387
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,800
all NBA fans could find pretty interesting, So check that

1388
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,000
one out. Yeah, and you can follow me on Twitter.

1389
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:19,400
I'm still gonna call it that at protected pick is

1390
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,760
my name Sam?

1391
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,119
Speaker 1: Where can the people find you?

1392
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:27,039
Speaker 3: At s Cooper Hoops on Twitter also, and yeah, i'd

1393
01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:29,519
echo everything Mike says. Check us out if you're interested

1394
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:32,760
in some more Suns coverage, Spotify, Apple, Google, you know

1395
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:33,880
the usual places.

1396
01:01:34,199 --> 01:01:36,559
Speaker 2: Anyone who listens to this podcast religiously knows. I love

1397
01:01:36,599 --> 01:01:38,800
these guys on their podcast. The links to the Timeline

1398
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,320
podcast will be into YouTube and podcast description. Thank you,

1399
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,360
gentlemen so much for doing this every year, and as

1400
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,760
you know by now, I will be featuring you again, Davilot,

1401
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:48,440
Thank you the best, Dan