1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,839 Speaker 1: This is we do. Hey, guys, welcome back to another 2 00:00:03,879 --> 00:00:07,040 episode of the Typical Skeptic podcast. Excuse me, I have 3 00:00:07,559 --> 00:00:10,759 another fascinating guest with me today. I saw this woman 4 00:00:10,919 --> 00:00:14,720 on Chris from Forbidden Knowledge News Channel, and I figured 5 00:00:14,759 --> 00:00:16,920 that she would be perfect for my show because of 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,920 the kind of the content matter that that she goes into, 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,199 like aliens and demons, and it's all happening in tech. 8 00:00:23,679 --> 00:00:25,960 You know whether this has happened. This is in Texas. 9 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:28,440 And the story is about her brother who is named 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,239 Jim O'Connell, who was an experiencer, and he had a 11 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:33,719 website which I'm going to show you guys now. It's 12 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:39,320 called Experiencers X Experiencers. Uh right here, let me pull 13 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:42,840 it up and uh and and then you guys can 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,799 see a copy of her book as well. The book's 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,960 called Bleed Through A True Story of Aliens, Demons and 16 00:00:49,079 --> 00:00:53,399 Pure Evil in Texas by Patricia Copley O'Connell. And she's 17 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:57,119 writing this and and the and in lieu of her 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,320 her late brother, who is that who tried to build 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,280 this site for you know, his follower or you know 20 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:07,120 the people that knew of his case. So I've never 21 00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:11,120 heard of his case personally. But first of all, do 22 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,280 you go by Pata Patricia? Which one would you worry? 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: I go by pat. 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: Okay pat Thank you for coming on. How are you? 25 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,159 Speaker 2: I'm great? And thank you for inviting me. 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,439 Speaker 1: So where did you want to start with this? This 27 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:25,239 is amazing? Like, I guess this story is about your brother, 28 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,760 Like what what? What? What? What happened? Like talk to 29 00:01:29,799 --> 00:01:30,319 tell us through? 30 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,879 Speaker 2: Well, the story was it's kind of secondhand through my brother. 31 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,799 My brother Uh was an abductee, or at least he 32 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,959 believed he had been abducted by aliens multiple times. And 33 00:01:44,439 --> 00:01:50,560 he had started a he had started a group trying 34 00:01:50,599 --> 00:01:55,519 to just collect the stories of people other experiencers. And 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,239 then he realized that the experiencers themselves needed some kind 36 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,920 of acknowledgment, some kind of recognition that what's happening to 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,520 them is real, whether it's objectively real or it's some 38 00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:13,360 kind of psychological phenomenon. It affected their lives very profoundly. 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,240 And so after a while he had met hundreds and 40 00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:19,680 hundreds of people all over the world, you know, through 41 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:25,680 the Internet, and he started developing a reality TV show 42 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,240 and he wanted to tell these stories. And when he 43 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:32,919 came and he had been involved in this for years 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,199 and years, had been you know, learning the ins and 45 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,240 outs of getting things on TV and production and the 46 00:02:39,319 --> 00:02:45,520 drama and financing all that. And he he called me 47 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,800 one day and he said that he had this one 48 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,919 case that was just mind blowing even for him. I mean, 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,960 this man had believed he had been abducted by aliens 50 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:58,560 and this story blew his mind. And he started telling 51 00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:01,360 me all the things that this guy, Clay Wheeler, there's 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,759 this guy in Texas at a little airport. He's been 53 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,400 having all these experiences he's had, you name it. He's 54 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:19,159 had ghosts, UFOs, aliens, poltergeist, demons, you know, just all 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,319 kinds of crazy stuff. And he said that, he said, 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,000 I can't possibly cover this guy's story in an episode 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,560 of the TV show one hour episode. I couldn't even 58 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:33,840 cover it if I did three episodes about it. So 59 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:35,919 he knew I was a writer, and he said, would 60 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,039 you be interested in first of all vetting the guy 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,439 because I'm in Texas, my brother was in Connecticut, and 62 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,199 what you know, would I be interested in talking to 63 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,719 this guy making sure he's not a Looney Tunes and 64 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,400 would be a waste of time. And second, would I 65 00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:57,479 be interested in possibly writing a book or multiple books, 66 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:02,800 or a screenplay or all of the above, because this 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 story is just so big. And I said, well, sure, 68 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,639 that sounds really interesting. And then he said, by the way, 69 00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:14,759 this guy claims that he shot and buried an alien, 70 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:19,519 and of course, wow, my eyes, my eyes were already 71 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,079 bugging out. And then when he said that, I just 72 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,279 my jaw dropped and I'm like, yes, I'm in for sure. 73 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:31,959 So that's how how it got started. So it's it 74 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,000 was Jimmy's story, but it was his covering the story 75 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,360 of this guy, Clay Wheeler that I got pulled into. 76 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,040 And then you know, time passed and then my brother, 77 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,120 uh passed away in the middle of all of this, 78 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,199 and so you know, then it came down to me. 79 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:54,480 So that is kind of a long answer to your question. 80 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: No, no, it's interesting. So tell us about this guy 81 00:04:57,759 --> 00:05:00,560 Clay Wheeler's story, like without him too much of the 82 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,240 book away, like what happened to him? And uh, why 83 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,079 did he feel that he buried an alien? Like does 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,879 it all kind of lead up to that? Or like what? 85 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that there, yeah, there there are various 86 00:05:12,879 --> 00:05:17,720 things that lead up to it. So it Clay Wheeler 87 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:22,720 will start with that was a aircraft mechanic. He had 88 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,439 his own business. He owned his own hangar in this 89 00:05:25,639 --> 00:05:29,879 little place in the middle of nowhere, and he had 90 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,800 a crew that worked for him that you know, they 91 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:36,360 they were building up the business and all this, and 92 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:43,519 he started seeing UFOs. Well, if you know anything about aviation, 93 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,279 if you know, we hear all the stories about the pilots, 94 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:51,000 if they report UFOs, they're you know, they're flying a 95 00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:55,199 disc that they can't you know, they're they're treated with disrespect. 96 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,439 You know, their their challenge that they could lose their jobs. 97 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:03,079 So he that being in the aviation business, you don't 98 00:06:03,079 --> 00:06:06,800 talk about this, and so you know, he tried to 99 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:10,759 keep it in for the longest time. But the problem 100 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,279 was that there were all these other things that were happening. 101 00:06:13,319 --> 00:06:17,360 So it wasn't just UFOs that he was seeing. He 102 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:23,519 saw that when there was something about the airport or 103 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,279 that area that was affecting people's moods and behaviors. It's 104 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:30,680 like he said that when his guys would clock in 105 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:33,800 for work, their their mood was just would turn dark. 106 00:06:33,879 --> 00:06:39,240 And the one person that was most affected by that 107 00:06:39,439 --> 00:06:43,759 piece of it was his wife, and her behavior got 108 00:06:44,439 --> 00:06:46,199 progressively worse and worse. 109 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,319 Speaker 1: And worse the way, I have a question, did we 110 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:51,120 were and both his wife both work at this airport, 111 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:52,199 I'm guessing. 112 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: Well, he had he built an apartment on the end 113 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,959 of the hang so he owned his hangar. There was 114 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,040 a hangar and in the middle there was an office, 115 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,199 and then on the other end of the hangar building 116 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:06,839 he built an apartment because he and his wife bought 117 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,639 some land nearby and they wanted to live cheap while 118 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,000 they saved up money to build a house on that land. 119 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,120 So she was eventually living there at the apartment, and 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,519 he lived there at the apartment throughout all of this craziness. So, 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,879 you know, it started with you know, like I said, 122 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:33,519 with seeing UFOs, and he couldn't tell anybody. As it 123 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,560 turned out, later on, he found out that the people 124 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,360 who worked for him were seeing them too, but nobody 125 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:42,439 was talking about it because they work in aviation, so 126 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,000 they all saw the same things, and nobody wanted to 127 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,839 talk about it because they didn't want to lose their jobs. 128 00:07:47,879 --> 00:07:52,439 They didn't want him to lose his business. So but meanwhile, 129 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,240 these personality changes are happening and there was a story. 130 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:04,040 One of the early stories was a poltergeist case where 131 00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:06,879 he said he went looking he was it was just 132 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:09,160 him and his wife there at the at the hangar 133 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:13,319 building one night, and he couldn't find his keys. And 134 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,279 he said it was a big wat of keys that 135 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,439 had everything on it. His you know, his truck, hard truck, 136 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,800 the the apartment, the hangar, their their rental in town, 137 00:08:23,959 --> 00:08:26,800 you know, just everything. But he had this tag on it. 138 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,439 It's a red long skinny tag that is a They 139 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,559 call it the removed before flight tag. So when you're 140 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,120 repairing an aircraft part and you're done, you stick this 141 00:08:40,279 --> 00:08:43,080 tag on there so that you know before you fly 142 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:45,320 the plane you have to remove the tag to make 143 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,639 sure the repairs are done. So he had this tag 144 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,799 on his key ring and he couldn't find his keys anywhere. 145 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:53,480 And he looked and he looked, and he said he 146 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:55,600 only kept him in two different places. It was the 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,679 desk drawer or in his pocket, and he couldn't find him. 148 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,039 And he and he calls to his wife, you know, 149 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,120 have you seen my keys? Now? I haven't seen my keys. 150 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,080 So he looked everywhere he could think of, including places 151 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,320 he couldn't imagine just because they weren't where they should 152 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,480 have been. So in the middle of all of this, 153 00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:20,919 the heat kicks on. It was wintertime, and the heat 154 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,480 kicks on in the hanger. And you know what a 155 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,000 hanger looks like. It's huge, tall, thirty foot tall ceiling. 156 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,960 And he hears this flicking noise coming from above when 157 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,840 the heater kicked on, and he looked up and they're 158 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:42,639 hanging from the rafters thirty feet up in the hangar. 159 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,200 Was this red removed before flight tag that was attached 160 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:52,559 to his keys. His keys somehow or another got up 161 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,000 in the rafters of the hangar, and so again, you know, 162 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,159 he doesn't tell anybody at this about this stuff because 163 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,600 who's going to believe him. They're going to think he's 164 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,399 losing his mind. So he's keeping all of this stuff in. 165 00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:14,480 And then the ships start landing out there, not yes, 166 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:18,799 landing or hovering out there. The first one was I 167 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:21,759 call it the soap bubble. It wasn't exactly like a 168 00:10:21,799 --> 00:10:24,519 soap bubble, but he said it had this iridescent It 169 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,360 was just an orb kind of thing. But you know, 170 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,440 we think of an orb as like a little dust 171 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,440 moat floating across the screen. This was I think it was. 172 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:38,080 He said. It was like twenty or thirty feet in diameter, 173 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,200 and it came out and it scared the crap out 174 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,480 of him. This was the first thing that he saw, 175 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,759 and so he watched it for a while and then 176 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:53,480 it flew up into the air and then dove down 177 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,559 into the ground. And he expected some kind of an 178 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:04,240 explosion or a crash for some something, and it was nothing. 179 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,879 It was like it just vanished into the ground. And 180 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,159 so after it was gone, he's looking at the at 181 00:11:11,159 --> 00:11:14,200 the tarmac and they're trying to see if, you know, 182 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,120 did it melt, did it dissolve with you know, what happened? 183 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,279 And there was nothing, nothing to show for this, for 184 00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:25,759 this thing that had been there. So, you know, he's 185 00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:32,720 he's he's scared, but at the same time, he's fascinated. 186 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,720 He wants desperately, once he once he comes to terms 187 00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:43,440 with the fact that these might be extraterrestrials, he desperately 188 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:46,080 wants to communicate with them. He wants to know what 189 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,720 they know. And uh, you know, at one point he 190 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:53,639 you know, he had had several ships come out and 191 00:11:53,639 --> 00:11:56,480 and in fact other kinds of ships, uh, you know, 192 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,279 the classic Mexican hat. One of those came out and 193 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,600 hovered over the runway, and he said that one scared 194 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,879 him to death, and you know, he just he was 195 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,679 frozen there for a while and he just kind of 196 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,279 talked to it, but you know, he just couldn't come 197 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,200 to grips with the fact that these things were were there, 198 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,840 they were real, but he couldn't he couldn't communicate with them. 199 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,799 So so that was his part of his journey through 200 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,879 all of this that he desperately wanted to commute communicate 201 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:38,360 with them. But as we know, because this is where 202 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:43,320 I started, all of this leads toward him ultimately shooting 203 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:49,000 and burying an alien. So the situation kind of degrades 204 00:12:49,039 --> 00:12:52,679 and degrades and degrades over time. So he's got the 205 00:12:52,720 --> 00:13:00,399 ship's coming and then he sees the first aliens. 206 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: And that was that, like, oh my god, he's actually 207 00:13:06,519 --> 00:13:08,519 had contact with these aliens, Like. 208 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,159 Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean contact as in they were I 209 00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:17,480 described to the airport or the hangar, the office in 210 00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:20,639 the middle, and the apartment on the end. He opened 211 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,159 the door. Okay, so let me back up. He woke up, 212 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:27,080 his wife was still I think she was either working later, 213 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,919 she was still at the house in town, and so 214 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,840 he was there by himself, and it was three o'clock 215 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:34,519 in the morning. He couldn't sleep, so he calls his 216 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,120 sister who worked in who was working in China at 217 00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:39,440 the time, so he knew it was three, you know, 218 00:13:40,879 --> 00:13:44,559 broad daylight where she was. So he figured, I'll catch 219 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,159 up with her. So he calls her, and you know, 220 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,559 being kind of an antsy guy, he kind of paces 221 00:13:49,639 --> 00:13:54,440 while he's talking to his sister and just absently, he 222 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:59,039 goes over to the door that is between his apartment 223 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,639 and the office and he just casually, without any particular purpose, 224 00:14:04,879 --> 00:14:08,080 opens up the door into the office. And he said, 225 00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:12,000 all of this took place in just a few seconds, 226 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:18,240 but he everything that happened was just etched into his brain. 227 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,960 He said, I opened the door and on my left 228 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,039 I saw two gray aliens that were about he said, 229 00:14:27,039 --> 00:14:30,200 three and a half four feet tall. But the weird thing, 230 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:36,200 he said, aside from having aliens in your office, he 231 00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:41,039 said that when I opened the door, they moved out 232 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,600 of the way together like they were joined like a gate. 233 00:14:44,679 --> 00:14:50,200 He said, it was like a gate. And so he said, 234 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:55,559 you know, I'm looking at these aliens and thinking he 235 00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:57,759 was just struck by the way they moved together, as 236 00:14:57,799 --> 00:15:01,200 they were one unit. And then his I went to 237 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,600 the right, and he said, there was this tall guy 238 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:10,720 and it was he said, it was tan, dark skinned 239 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:14,120 kind of but he said, and it was naked. He 240 00:15:14,159 --> 00:15:16,159 said it was naked, but it had no features, so 241 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:21,320 it was like a kendall, you know, like just no 242 00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:27,759 features on this body. And he said the eyes were huge, 243 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:32,279 and they bulged out, and the lids closed from the 244 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,120 top and the bottom. And he said there were bulges 245 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,240 in the back of its head, so that, you know, 246 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,240 And this one scared him. The two little ones didn't 247 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,519 scare him, other than the fact that it was so unexpected. 248 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,840 But this one on the right, he said, it started 249 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:53,519 toward him, and he said, next thing I know, I 250 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:57,639 dropped the phone, closed the door, and I don't know 251 00:15:57,799 --> 00:16:01,440 how long it was before he was brave enough to 252 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,000 go back in there. But when I talked to his 253 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,519 sister much later, she said, actually, when he was on 254 00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:12,320 the phone, he said gotta go and hung up. So 255 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,039 but she she was there when he was seeing all this. 256 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,759 But he's describing in great detail this encounter. So now 257 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:27,240 he knows that these creatures can get into his house, 258 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:31,240 into it where he lives, where he works, and you know, 259 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:34,000 the doors were locked, so how did they get in? 260 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,799 So that's that was the beginning of his awareness that 261 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,440 the aliens could invade his personal space. 262 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, and that's that's commonplace with I mean, other 263 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,600 abductees that I've heard throughout time, like they just find 264 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:53,279 their They just you know, if you listen to like 265 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,519 the stories of like Jim Sparks for example, Like Jim 266 00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:59,399 Sparks used to come on the Art Belshaw. He said that, uh, 267 00:16:59,679 --> 00:17:01,879 these aliens would just come into his house and they 268 00:17:01,879 --> 00:17:04,400 would walk around and they look at stuff, and like 269 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,880 it was it was fascinating. Like he was saying that 270 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,839 he loaded a gun and he was going to actually 271 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,599 shoot one of the aliens, like he was he was 272 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,480 going to shoot it, and then it telepathically said to 273 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:20,440 him and said put the gun down. We know you 274 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:23,920 know you're not a killer. And and and then it 275 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,240 made him, it made him stop completely in his tracks, 276 00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:30,279 like he, uh, you know that that's one one. I mean, 277 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,079 but there's not many people who have what we call 278 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:37,880 conscious recall of their abductions, like you know, so it's 279 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,200 interesting that this guy was having or contact. You know, 280 00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:44,240 a lot of a lot of times people have contact 281 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:47,039 that's happened in like the astro or theic realms or 282 00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:49,160 something like that, you know what I mean. So like 283 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:52,599 for him to be having like physical contact in this 284 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,960 three D space is pretty amazing. 285 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there. And he had many of these 286 00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:02,720 signings that were during broad daylight too, So that's something 287 00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:04,680 I've never really heard much of. 288 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: It's not everyone. We can ask you a question more 289 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:10,960 his Was his coworkers involved, did they see anything or 290 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:14,079 was it just. 291 00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: He says that there were some that that saw some 292 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,279 of these things that happened. Now I'm still in the 293 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:22,319 process of trying to track down those witnesses. I found 294 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:25,839 one and interviewed him a couple of weeks ago, uh, 295 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,359 and he confirmed some of the not an alien sighting. 296 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:35,759 Now he believes that what Clay saw were demons, not aliens. 297 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,640 And I've heard that. I've heard others say that. But 298 00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:44,599 now Clay had encounters that he believed were like he 299 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,400 thought he saw the devil push himself up out of 300 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:54,680 the ground. He saw one night in his living room 301 00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:01,599 this bluish, undulating light that he said, look like he 302 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,480 thought it looked like an angel only made out of plasma. 303 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,960 So this plasma energy is sort of waving through the 304 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,440 middle of air, the air in his living room, and 305 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,759 he said, you know, first of all, he said, it 306 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:22,039 had brown hair, and it threw him off because he 307 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,279 just pictured angels as being blonde. So I thought that 308 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,200 that was interesting. So he sees this, this creature or 309 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,519 this plasma whatever it is, energy and he said, then 310 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,920 there was a dark energy that pull that that kind 311 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,319 of came up through the floor and it started interacting 312 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,680 with this beautiful blue light. And he said it was almost, 313 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,720 you know, like the the dark force was trying to 314 00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:59,480 attack the light force. And he said that that there 315 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:03,240 was this whole kind of a dance that the two 316 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,519 entities or lights went through, and he when it was over, 317 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:13,920 it was almost as if the blue light had vanquished 318 00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:16,680 the dark light. And he thought, you know, is this 319 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,480 some kind of a good versus evil play that's being 320 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,200 enacted in front of my eyes in my living room 321 00:20:24,279 --> 00:20:28,720 And I'm being told that good will conquer evil or something, 322 00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:36,480 you know. So he it's not really clear that, I mean, 323 00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:39,279 he had there was so much of everything, so there 324 00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:42,079 were things he perceived as aliens, but there were also 325 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,960 things he perceived as demons or literally he saw, like 326 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,160 I said, he saw what looked like the devil. He 327 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,279 said it was red. It was red all over, and 328 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:56,319 it was slick like it was covered with wet blood 329 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,240 and it was he said, it was pushing itself up 330 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,839 out of the ground and it scared him to death. 331 00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:07,319 Speaker 1: Wow, what what were the demonic presences? Does he does? 332 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,160 He does he get into that at all? And like 333 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,559 what did he did? And did the demonic presences happen 334 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,160 like around the time that the aliens were coming around, Like. 335 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 2: It's all kind of woven together. And then so we 336 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:29,200 were talking about like a physical demon or a devil. 337 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,200 But then I told you about those those personality changes. Well, 338 00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:40,960 his wife started to change in ways that he described 339 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,839 as demonic possession. He thought she was possessed, and so 340 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,359 you know, she started getting darker and darker, like, uh, 341 00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:53,799 one day, she they were having an argument. They'd both 342 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,720 driven their separate trucks to a restaurant and they had 343 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,480 an argument at the restaurant and he followed her out 344 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,319 to the truck because she was going to go to 345 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,119 work and he was holding on to the door of 346 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,160 the truck, and she slammed the door on his hand 347 00:22:08,839 --> 00:22:11,960 and dragged him for like a mile and a half 348 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:16,799 until she finally either realized he was there or decided 349 00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:18,599 that he had had enough. I'm not I have no 350 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,920 idea what was going through her head. 351 00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 352 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he he ended up in the hospital with 353 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,920 broken bones, broken ribs, you know, scrapes and everything like that. 354 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,359 So that was that was one of the first things 355 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:40,519 that indicated that her personality was changing. And then later on, 356 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,359 she wakes up in the morning one day and she 357 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:49,559 looks like she's about eight months pregnant. I mean, she 358 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,319 was in good shape and before that, she wakes up 359 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,880 looking like she was about eight months pregnant. And it 360 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,400 freaked him out because he's thinking, what in the world 361 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,799 can do this? You know, has she been you know, 362 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,599 I'm thinking the alien, you know the alien movie where 363 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,559 the alien breaks out of the guy and runs off, 364 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,880 and he doesn't know what to think. He just knows 365 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,559 that this isn't normal, and I need to get to 366 00:23:16,599 --> 00:23:22,400 the doctor. And she ends up through a lot of gyrations, 367 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,920 ends up kicking him in the head and he falls 368 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,599 over onto the tile floor and is knocked out for 369 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,079 a while, she's she goes away, she's gone, and then 370 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,799 hours later she comes back and she's fine and the 371 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:41,119 belly is gone. That morning, he had also seen her 372 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,119 eating red meat out of the refrigerator. It was it 373 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,160 was hamburger meat set out for ready for dinner, to 374 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,160 cook for dinner, and he caught her just digging her 375 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,920 hands into the package of hamburger. 376 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 377 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, and he knew something was radically 378 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,200 wrong with her. And so the end of the trajectory 379 00:24:08,599 --> 00:24:13,480 with her is that she shows up in the middle 380 00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:17,519 of the day and you know, at his hangar, everybody's working, 381 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,440 and she's got his thirty eight, and she starts taking 382 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,640 shots at everybody. Yeah yeah, and she empties. You know, 383 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,240 it's got a cylinder. She empties the cylinder and fortunately 384 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,839 she didn't hit anybody, and so everything was okay. But 385 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,599 she ends up going to jail, and he convinced everybody 386 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,079 not to press charges, so she ultimately got out. Don't 387 00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:46,680 ask me, I would think it wouldn't matter whether any 388 00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:48,680 I don't know anything about that kind of law, but 389 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:49,279 I would think. 390 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially like in Texas, because you know, they're like 391 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,559 at the same time, there is you know, I think 392 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,559 a lot of states are like really open about gun laws. 393 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:01,759 But it same time, if you commit a crime in 394 00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:04,319 some states with guns, like you know that, you know, 395 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:07,039 they can really pinue. You know. It's just I guess 396 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:09,319 it just depends on the judge. And like you know, 397 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,759 I don't know not either. I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, so 398 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,200 I don't know, so, you know, I mean, but it's 399 00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:19,559 it's interesting. Let me ask you this. Did he seek 400 00:25:19,599 --> 00:25:26,279 out any kind of help from any churches or spiritual people? 401 00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:28,480 So maybe if it wasn't a church, did he speak 402 00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:30,880 out and he seek out any spiritual help for his wife, 403 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,319 like you know, to try to like drive these forces 404 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:34,799 out of her. 405 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: He'd well, not so much her after she took the 406 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,039 shots at his crew. They had been trying to get 407 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:46,319 him to at least separate from her or divorce, and 408 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,920 he finally after she shot up the hangar, he got 409 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,960 divorced from her. But yes, he ultimately did. He called 410 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,519 a priest and the priest came out. I think the 411 00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:01,200 priest came out a couple of times and tried to 412 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,839 bless the place, and he said he hung crosses over 413 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,759 the doorways and things like that, and he said it 414 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,799 helped for a while, But I don't know, I don't 415 00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:16,839 think he ever had the opportunity to, you know, the 416 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:21,200 we're thinking in terms of of an exorcistem. I don't 417 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,759 think he ever had that opportunity to do anything with 418 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,880 her because she was so uncontrollable, she was so violent, 419 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,359 and ultimately he just had to cut ties with her. 420 00:26:35,759 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird. I think a lot of times, like 421 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,599 when when when when you deal with like cases of 422 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,960 like demons or whatever, this is like they look for 423 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,920 like the weakest link in the family or they find 424 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,920 a weak link and then they possessed the spirit of 425 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,359 that person. You know, So maybe something about her wasn't 426 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,799 right that kind of opened her up to demonic possession. 427 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,240 But it makes me think that, like it makes me 428 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,400 start to think that this place was on a portal 429 00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:05,160 because like, you know what in the I'm looking at 430 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,160 the website now as you're talking, and you said, the 431 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,480 things that happen at this airport kind of make the 432 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:14,960 events at Skinwalker Ranch like you know that pale by comparison. Well, 433 00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:18,759 you know that makes me think I think Skinwalker Ranch 434 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:20,440 is on a portal, and I'm starting to think that 435 00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:23,559 maybe this place was on a portal. Like I think 436 00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:27,480 there's maybe stuff that exists in other dimensions that you know, 437 00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:33,319 we just don't know about because our visual I talked 438 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:34,759 to someone about this the other day, I think I 439 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,240 actually I had Chris on my show from Forbid Knowledge News, 440 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:40,960 and we were talking about how our our lights, our 441 00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:44,599 visual light spectrum, it's limited. Excuse me, it's limited, so 442 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,279 we don't see all these things that are in our reality. 443 00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,079 But some people, you know, like the seers, and like 444 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,799 some people like the you know, the psychics, and uh, 445 00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:57,920 some people that you could say that are a higher 446 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,440 frequency you can kind of see through the sometimes and experiencers. 447 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:04,640 But so sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there. 448 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,279 I don't know where I was going to. Oh, what 449 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,319 I was saying was, did you think that this place 450 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,119 was on a portal? 451 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,039 Speaker 2: Well, okay, you're thinking the way I was thinking. I mean, 452 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:17,480 I started out he had been working there, he had 453 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,039 been living there for years before all this happened, And 454 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,759 it just started in twenty ten and it ran through 455 00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:28,880 twenty thirteen when he had to leave. So why all 456 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,240 those other years did it not happen, and so I 457 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,039 was being a skeptic. So you know, your podcast is 458 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:40,519 the typical skeptic. I'm a skeptic, but I'm the good kind. 459 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:44,400 I'm the kind that is open to possibilities. I'm just 460 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,079 not a pushover. I need I need you to give me. Yeah, 461 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:51,039 I need you to give me some good evidence, and 462 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,359 I'm going to debunk what I can. So I started 463 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,039 looking at what could have changed in twenty ten, and 464 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,440 the only thing I could get from him was, you know, 465 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,200 the only thing different was that the county had had 466 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,400 a oil with an oil drill, a test well or 467 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,279 something dug on the airport property and they didn't find anything, 468 00:29:16,319 --> 00:29:20,440 I guess, and so they pulled it out. But ever since, 469 00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:23,640 there's kind of a sinkhole there and periodically the county 470 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,480 has to come in with dump trucks and dirt and 471 00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:30,319 fill it in. So I'm thinking, as the skeptic, could 472 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,319 that rig have tapped into some kind of a gas, 473 00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,680 a toxic gas or something like that could have gotten 474 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:43,480 either into the air that would affect everybody in an area, 475 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,160 or into the water. And so you know that there 476 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:55,200 was that question from a conventional explanation, but Clay one 477 00:29:55,319 --> 00:30:02,279 night saw a portal, an absolute portal, open up, and 478 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,079 it was one of those things where and I know 479 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,880 on skin Walker they've had they've had a portal open 480 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,079 up and the person who's in the right spot can 481 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,519 see it, can see through it or see into it 482 00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,119 and see what's in it, but a person one hundred 483 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,359 feet away can't see anything. The sky just looks normal. 484 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,759 So Clay saw this portal open and it was like 485 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,279 a doorway, and he said it was like something was 486 00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,200 just pulled like like a window shade, only on the side, 487 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,279 and it was like it pulled this portal open. And 488 00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:39,000 he said it was open for about an hour and 489 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,079 these various ships came out. There were creatures coming out. 490 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:45,720 There was what he calls the man walking wolf. So 491 00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:49,319 it's a wolf that's walking on its hind legs. 492 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: A dog man. 493 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 494 00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: And there's a desert. You know. That's like, actually, you know, 495 00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:59,839 it's interesting, you said, because that's like actually kind of 496 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,680 and the paranormal, like you know, there's like dog man 497 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:06,200 sightings a lot, you know, so that that's like it's 498 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,920 like a creature, you know what I mean, It's like 499 00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:11,400 it's it's it's interesting that you say that. So it's 500 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,359 like he was seeing things that like other people see, 501 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,000 almost like it's it's this, this is amazing. 502 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,799 Speaker 2: Well, and so being the skeptic, I'm thinking, Okay, I'm 503 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:25,079 looking at the pictures and I'm thinking, okay, are these 504 00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:30,359 lights on the buildings? And the image is just blown 505 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,519 out because you've overexposed it or something. And so I 506 00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:41,319 asked him, are there are there lights that are on 507 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:48,200 a timer? Are are they lights that are motion sensor connected? 508 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,039 And he said no, they're on all the time. And 509 00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:54,079 I since learned that that the lights are either on 510 00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:57,119 all night or if the bulbs burn out, they're not on. 511 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:03,240 But the skeptic in me is saying, if this was 512 00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:07,680 a normal light out there, he would have seen it 513 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,519 every night, and it only happened this one night and 514 00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:16,079 it was open for an hour. And the funny thing is, 515 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,200 he said, I wish I had written down all the 516 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,440 things I saw come out of it, because I wanted 517 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,759 to make sure they all went back in before it closed. 518 00:32:27,599 --> 00:32:34,880 So you know, yeah, so you know, it's just weird 519 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,720 stuff that happened. I mean, one day, his secretary said 520 00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:47,200 that she was concerned because the electric bill was like 521 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,640 a thousand dollars higher than usual, and it was during 522 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,319 a time. So when the story started, the business was 523 00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:57,480 going really well. He was able to hire more people. 524 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,960 He was getting all these contracts, and as story progressed, 525 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:04,400 Clay got sicker and sicker. Of course, he was beat 526 00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:07,920 up too from his wife dragging him and all these 527 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,160 other things. So he gets sicker and sicker, and the 528 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,480 business starts going downhill. And I think I forgot where 529 00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:19,160 I was going with that, but oh yeah, so he 530 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,240 said that she told him that the electric bill was 531 00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:26,480 one thousand dollars higher than usual for the airport, and 532 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:29,799 because he was the only one out there, he had 533 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:32,279 to maintain the runway lights and things like that. So 534 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:36,079 he's like, damn. You know, it's one thing after another. 535 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,880 So a client refused to pay or they were late 536 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,279 paying their bill or whatever it was. He was having 537 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:48,240 money problems, and so this was this was another upset. 538 00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:52,599 PAL on these other upsets, and then one night he 539 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,400 is looking through I think this was one. I get 540 00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:00,359 mixed up as to which things he saw directly in 541 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,440 which things he saw on his security camera. But one 542 00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:10,960 night he sees these discs. They're like discs, but with 543 00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:14,159 a bite in the back of them. And if you're 544 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:22,320 familiar with the the original ufo, Oh god, what was 545 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,119 the guy's name that the first coin that he didn't 546 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:34,000 coin the term UFOs or flying saucers. Oh gosh, Kenneth Arnold. Yes, 547 00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:40,280 I could get the ken his drawing what showed a disc, 548 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,679 but the back of it wasn't It wasn't a complete disc. 549 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,719 It was kind of flat. Well, Clay was saying, these 550 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,159 discs were sort of like that, only it was like 551 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,880 a bite out of the back. So and I remember 552 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,199 thinking that that reminded me of the Kenneth Arnold drawing 553 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,840 because it's not commonly known. And so when Clay described 554 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,079 it or mentioned it to me, I thought, well, you know, 555 00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:12,039 that's a little convincing to me as a skeptic. You know, 556 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:15,559 where would you have gotten this? And so he saw 557 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:20,880 that these these partial discs would come and they would 558 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,559 hover over the runway lights, and he said there were 559 00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:29,159 these little creatures and he couldn't see them clearly enough 560 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,519 to you know, give any details, but he said they 561 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:34,760 were like they the way they were moving, he said 562 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,599 it reminded him of the old fashioned gas stations where 563 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:41,519 the service attendant would come out and pump your gas 564 00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:44,239 and wipe your windshield and check your oil and all that. 565 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,639 He said, it was like these ships were hovering over 566 00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:51,920 the runway lights and these service guys were doing whatever 567 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,960 they do. And he said, oh my god, they're refueling 568 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,360 off of my electricity out here on the run and 569 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,360 he got really upset. He got pissed off. And the 570 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,440 weirder I mean, I keep saying the weirdest part, but 571 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,360 it's all weird. He said, there was this other creature 572 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,800 that appeared to be the supervisor. And he said it 573 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:22,280 was about fifteen feet tall, gauging the height by the 574 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,239 height of the runway lights and how much higher this 575 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,719 thing was. He said it was real long legs, and 576 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,239 that head was like a giant Oreo cookie and he said, 577 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,360 so it was round, but it was flat. And he 578 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,039 said that this thing seemed to be like the boss 579 00:36:41,159 --> 00:36:44,880 or the supervisor. And he said it would come over 580 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,079 to these other little guys who were servicing the ships 581 00:36:48,119 --> 00:36:52,400 that were apparently refueling the way he interpreted it, and 582 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,039 he said the Oreo cookie guy would kind of lean 583 00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:57,880 over as if to inspect their work, and he's looking 584 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,760 at this thing and thinking, how in the world are 585 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,440 you not falling over? Because you've got this giant head 586 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,320 and these spindley legs and you know, And so when 587 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,199 I hear a story like this, I'm thinking, how do 588 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,519 you if this isn't true? How do you make this up? 589 00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:19,719 You know? 590 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: It's it's so, what happened with the the investigation into 591 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,079 was gas being leaked or something like that? Was did 592 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:30,639 you did that all check out? Like it was it? Well? 593 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,400 Do you really think it was paranormal? 594 00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 2: Well? I don't know. And that's something that my team 595 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:39,880 is planning on looking into. We've got now we've got 596 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,000 technology drones and things like that, and sensors that can 597 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,880 detect different gases and things like that. So we're gonna 598 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,719 go out there and uh check it and see if 599 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,320 we can find a conventional explanation for it. But you know, 600 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:01,039 we're we're also gonna try to find whatever reburied out there. 601 00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question, this is a really 602 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:09,199 important question. Did did he ever say anything about any 603 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,320 military involvement? Like did he ever see you know, because 604 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,039 a lot of people nowadays they suffer from what we 605 00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,280 call my labs military abductions. Uh and if it's not 606 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,239 a full military abduction, then sometimes it's the military working 607 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,320 with the aliens. Like did he ever see that that 608 00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:30,519 he saw any military involvement at all, Like, you know, 609 00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:34,000 it's a lot of times it can be these black ops, 610 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:35,880 not like you know, I'm not talking about like the 611 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,599 regular marine, you know, like I'm talking about like black ops, 612 00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,480 like you know, something we we wouldn't know about, you know. 613 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,679 Speaker 2: That he did not. But at one point in the story, 614 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:54,800 as as his business situation went downhill and downhill, at 615 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,599 one point his shop was raided and he said it 616 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,760 was at least fifty law enforcement. He said, there was 617 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,239 the ATF, there was FBI, there were swat teams from 618 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,039 three different places. I don't know who all was out there, 619 00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:15,199 but he said they took they didn't take everything, but 620 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,920 they took his computers. They took his guns. I mean, 621 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,159 it's Texas, we have guns here. And also he was 622 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,239 a licensed gun manufacturer, so had he built replicas of 623 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,400 antique guns and he could repair guns and things like that, 624 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,280 So he had a lot of ammunition and weapons out there, 625 00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:38,519 and they took all of this stuff. They took his computers, 626 00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:42,880 and he said that and they didn't have a warrant, 627 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:44,920 or if they did, they never showed it to him. 628 00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:50,840 And they took him and never charged him. They held 629 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,039 him for about eight hours. He said he never got 630 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:57,400 a phone call, he never got food or water. They 631 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,000 just held him for about eight hours. And then when 632 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,440 it was all over. Uh, it took several days, but 633 00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:08,559 they finally brought most of his stuff back. But he 634 00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:11,400 said when he got his computers back, a lot of 635 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,519 his best evidence, his videos and photos of the aliens, 636 00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:19,639 of the ships or the portals and you know, various things. 637 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,519 He said, a lot of that best evidence was gone. 638 00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:27,559 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, so that makes sense. Yeah, so they must 639 00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,239 have been watching the place, like but without him knowing. 640 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,840 You know, they had to have bit like they and 641 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,880 they can do that from like a multitude of ways 642 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,719 where they can have you know, they can have people 643 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,400 on the premises that look like they're performing like daily casks, 644 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,679 like workers, but merely they're like they're spoot. There's spooks undercover, 645 00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:49,679 you know, and they have they'll you know, they'll they't 646 00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,360 So I believe that one hundred and ten percent. You know, 647 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,760 like they're always they're always trying to they're always trying 648 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,280 to find out what's going on with the experiencer. It's 649 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,199 like if they want to know what they know, because 650 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,800 if they know anything about any technology, they want to 651 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,199 seal that up or something. It seems like her or 652 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,400 or or they're trying to learn a little bit more 653 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,360 about the phenomena themselves through the eyes of the experience er. 654 00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:15,960 But did he ever say what if they questioned him? 655 00:41:16,039 --> 00:41:18,480 Or like, did they ever say anything like like what 656 00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:20,320 if you saw or anything like that? 657 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 2: You know, they didn't at all. They supposedly the premise 658 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,920 for the raid was that an email was sent out 659 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,239 to all of his clients from him from his personal 660 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,039 email address, saying that he was going to shoot them 661 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,400 with an AK forty seven. And he said, you know 662 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,639 a lot of people have access to my computer and 663 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,599 to my email address. And then he thought, well, you know, 664 00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:50,159 maybe it was my ex wife, because you know, she 665 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,159 seemed to be, I don't know, out to harm him 666 00:41:54,639 --> 00:41:58,000 in some ways, so you know, but it was it 667 00:41:58,039 --> 00:42:01,400 was a flimsy excuse for something that dramatic. 668 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, that's that's insane. That's uh, that's wow, 669 00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:09,960 that's wild. So so I don't want to give you 670 00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:11,599 a give it away, but I'm so excited, Like what 671 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,320 I mean, is this stuff still going on? Like it 672 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,719 is he still experiencing stuff now? Like is he still 673 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,239 alive and he's still like you know, like uh, still 674 00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:24,440 the only stuff or what's well? 675 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 2: Okay? So what happened was, you know, after after my 676 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,239 brother died, Clay and I stayed in touch and we're 677 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,320 both you know, I knew I couldn't I couldn't follow 678 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,440 my brother. I couldn't walk in his shoes and produce 679 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,480 a TV show or anything like that. There was no 680 00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:46,320 way I could I could do that. But Clay and 681 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,119 I stayed in touch, and you know, he kept telling 682 00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:52,199 me his stories and telling me what was going on. 683 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,159 But by that point he had moved out, he was 684 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,119 living with his mom, and so it had been in 685 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:04,119 about a year since my brother had passed away, and 686 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,639 you know, his family had it was it was just 687 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,199 totally out of the blue and we were all just 688 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,920 got punched by his death. We totally didn't expect it. 689 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,760 And it actually happened right before he was supposed to 690 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,960 come to Texas to interview Clay and dig up whatever 691 00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:27,559 might have been buried there. And he passed away in 692 00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:33,800 his sleep. So I had decided that I needed to 693 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,760 do something to honor Jimmy's memory. So I created a 694 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,079 memorial video or you know, just a remembrance of him, 695 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,199 and I sent it out to everybody who knew him, 696 00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:47,280 and I sent it out by email to people like Clay, 697 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,199 and then I sent it out on Facebook so that 698 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,800 the people all around the world who knew him would 699 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,920 be able to see it and kind of share in 700 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,639 his life. And so, so I hadn't heard from Clay, 701 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,199 and I knew that he and Jim had come to 702 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,599 be pretty close because Jim was one of the few people. 703 00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:13,079 In fact, he felt like Jim was the only person 704 00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:17,320 who really understood what was going on and really appreciated 705 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,280 it that, you know, he could talk to Jim about 706 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,320 this stuff. So they had gotten pretty close. And so 707 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,280 when I didn't hear from him after I sent this out, 708 00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:30,840 I kind of got worried. And it was a while, 709 00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:33,119 you know, I didn't hear it, didn't hear and so 710 00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:36,920 finally I contacted Clay's sister and I said, you know, 711 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,920 I haven't heard from him in a while. Is he okay? 712 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,719 And she said, no, he's in the hospital. He's been 713 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,679 in the hospital for a month. He has multiple organ 714 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,119 failure and he has flesh eating bacteria and if he survives, 715 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,320 they're going to have to cut off huge patches of 716 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,079 his skin. And the next day she emailed me to 717 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:01,400 tell me that he had passed away. 718 00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:06,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god. So, I mean, it's almost like weird. 719 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,159 It's almost like they got your brother or someone something 720 00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:13,239 got your brother, and then something got this guy Clay. 721 00:45:13,559 --> 00:45:15,760 It almost makes me think that like something was like 722 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,119 trying not to get this story out. It's almost like 723 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,360 seems like it was very important that you got this 724 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:21,280 story out. 725 00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:24,199 Speaker 2: Well, and that's you know, that's one way to look 726 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,239 at it. But when you when you look back at. 727 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, I just wanted to say, I'm sorry. 728 00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:32,719 I look at everything from a conspiracy right, So I 729 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,519 wasn't like I wasn't trying to allude that that something 730 00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:39,159 got your brother or him. I just like I just 731 00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:40,519 tend to look at things from like a. 732 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:46,199 Speaker 2: Sure, you know, I totally understand now my brother because 733 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,159 because it is a logical thing to think about, a 734 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,239 logical question to ask. And I didn't know my brother 735 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,360 had had heart problems and he was he had a 736 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,199 couple of different things, and he had conquered one of 737 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,760 the problems and he was really proud of it, and 738 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,800 he had told me about it, so everything was fine. Well, 739 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,800 I didn't know until after he died that he had 740 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,920 had a test that showed that he had had a 741 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,559 previous heart attack and the cardiologist wanted him to come 742 00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:20,880 back in for more tests, and he said, well, I'll 743 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,480 just do that after I get back from Texas. So 744 00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:28,400 that never happened. So I want people to know that 745 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,400 if you have signs that you might have you might 746 00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:33,480 be prone to heart attacks, you need to go to 747 00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:37,480 the doctor and get that fixed. Now, as far as 748 00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:45,960 Clay's situation here, there is a mysterious component to his death, 749 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,039 and I won't give it away so that people who 750 00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:51,679 read the book can share kind of the shock that 751 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,000 I felt when I got to the end and talked 752 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,280 to his mom and I learned something that just totally 753 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,559 made me go back. I mean the I call it 754 00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:08,519 the record scratch moment. It was, oh my God, and 755 00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:11,199 I had to go back and think through all of 756 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,599 the stuff that had happened, and so you know, it's 757 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:17,320 it's crazy. 758 00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:20,760 Speaker 1: Didn't even give away everything that happened, like there's probably 759 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,960 a lot more in the book that happened there. 760 00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is so much. There was so much material 761 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,519 that I say was left on the cutting room floor 762 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,360 that that I couldn't fit in the book. So there's 763 00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:36,480 got to be another book just to cover the stuff 764 00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,880 I couldn't fit into this one. But one of the 765 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,519 things I learned after he died, after Clay died from 766 00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:49,119 his mom, that was that when he was little, he 767 00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:52,679 and his sister were little, the family went on a 768 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,840 trip with their travel trailer to Alaska. And so they 769 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,800 were on their way back from Alaska, and I think 770 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,360 it was in Idaho, and the mom and dad are 771 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,079 both too tired to drive, and they're like, let's just 772 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,639 pull over at this it was a historical marker or 773 00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:13,320 someplace that was a wide spot in the road, and 774 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,440 they just, well, we'll just sleep there tonight. So they 775 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,039 pulled off and they're all sleeping in the travel trailer 776 00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:22,639 and the mom wakes up in the middle of the 777 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,639 night and she says she was hearing this noise outside 778 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,719 and it was this kind of a clicking noise, but 779 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,119 she said she knew it was a conversation. It was 780 00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:39,880 like there were at least two creatures out there that 781 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,559 were having a conversation from different spots around the travel trailer. 782 00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:50,239 And she said, for whatever reason, she knew it was aliens. 783 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,119 And she said, I don't know why I thought that, 784 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:55,159 because I wasn't interested in aliens. It wasn't a big 785 00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:58,239 deal back in the I guess it would be the sixties, 786 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,920 and so she but I knew right away that it 787 00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:08,679 was aliens. And she said, you know, my husband got 788 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,280 up and he grabbed his gun. He gets out, gets 789 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,760 in the truck and pulls away and they speed the 790 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,480 heck out of there. But she said that she believed 791 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,679 that that night, either all of them or some of them, 792 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,440 at least Clay had been abducted that night. Now I 793 00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:32,079 asked him many times did he think he was abducted? 794 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:35,320 And he said no, but he told me stories that 795 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,840 sound exactly like what happens to abductees. You know, they 796 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,079 wake up in strange clothes, or they wake up in 797 00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:45,280 a strange place, or you know, things like that. And 798 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,840 he was willing. I had asked him if he would 799 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,800 be willing to do a hypnotic regression to see if 800 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,039 if there were any memories like that, and as you 801 00:49:56,159 --> 00:50:00,679 know sometimes you know, those things, if they happened in childhood, 802 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,320 they probably continued to happen throughout your life. And with 803 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,880 my brother, it turned out that once he opened himself 804 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,960 to the possibility that he had actually been abducted, as 805 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:20,079 opposed to having these recurrent strange dreams, he started realizing 806 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,360 that there were occurrences that started as far back as 807 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,440 I think it was nineteen sixty five, when we were 808 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:34,920 all living in Connecticut and that big Northeast blackout, and 809 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,159 you know, he said, one of our friends, one of 810 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:42,960 my friends, had seen a UFO that night. But Jimmy 811 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,920 said he remembered something happening to him even earlier than that, 812 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:54,079 and he and my brother, the next brother, had seen 813 00:50:54,679 --> 00:51:00,880 a UFO. They saw UFO together, and jim felt like 814 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,440 he had been abducted from the time he was I 815 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,320 don't know, maybe eight or nine, maybe ten. 816 00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:12,320 Speaker 1: Wow. And did you ever have sometimes a gig falls 817 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,800 in family lines, did you ever have any feelings like 818 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,199 you had been taken it all? 819 00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:20,760 Speaker 2: I did not, and I in a way, you know, 820 00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:25,679 I'm kind of jealous because all three of my brothers 821 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:31,000 have seen UFOs. I have not. My mom. One night 822 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,039 when we were living in Connecticut. She was she woke up. 823 00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:39,159 She was looking out the front window, and in the 824 00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:42,800 crotch of this big oak tree, she saw this little 825 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:48,159 man dressed in patchwork leather, and she woke my dad 826 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,599 up and she's, you know, to come look at this 827 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,360 little man look sitting in the crotch of the tree. 828 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:59,320 And my dad couldn't see it. And so she's describing 829 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,960 this guy, this all dressed in leather and patchwork, sitting 830 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,920 in the crouch of the tree, and my dad couldn't 831 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,599 see it, couldn't see it. And my mom's like, how 832 00:52:07,639 --> 00:52:09,920 can you not see that? And she described what the 833 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,079 little guy was doing, and my dad's like, I'm going 834 00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:14,880 to go back to sleep. So he goes back to sleep. 835 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,840 Well years later, my mom joins the Historical Society, and 836 00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:24,320 sure enough she finds out that there was this guy 837 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,440 they called the leather Man, who back in the seventeen hundreds, 838 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:34,119 I think, would make the circuit from New York all 839 00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:36,840 the way around the Boston Post Road to Boston and 840 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,719 then back the north route, and he would stay at 841 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,599 a different house every night. He would kind of pay 842 00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:49,119 his room and board by sharpening scissors and knives, and 843 00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,800 they called him the leather Man. Now, she had no 844 00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:56,559 way of knowing this back then when she saw it. 845 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,320 So I think my three brothers and my mom had 846 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,960 the gift to see things. And you had mentioned early 847 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,800 on do you have to have some kind of ability 848 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,679 to see these things? And so if that's the case 849 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,000 in my family, I think it would have been my brothers, 850 00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:16,679 my three brothers, and my mom who had that gift, 851 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,119 and my dad and I did not. So but I'm 852 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,480 I'm open to it. I've sat out on the runway 853 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,920 at Clay's Airport overnight hoping that they'll come down, hoping 854 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,159 that the aliens will come see me, and nothing's happened 855 00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:36,719 so far. But you know, we're going to try again. 856 00:53:37,039 --> 00:53:38,119 We're going to keep doing it. 857 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:44,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. This has been amazing. I can put 858 00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:46,079 a link for the book in the description too. But 859 00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,440 did you want to tell everybody where they can find 860 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,960 the book or find you? And thank you so much 861 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,119 for doing this? This was fun? 862 00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 2: Well, well, thank you. Yeah, the book is available on 863 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:59,280 Amazon right now. We're we've got the ebook and the paperback. 864 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,559 We're working on the production for the for the audiobook. 865 00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:05,559 For everybody like me who likes to listen while we're driving, 866 00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:09,960 we're walking, and uh, you can find you can find 867 00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:13,760 me through the website. This was my brother's website that 868 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:18,079 I resurrected after he passed away. Uh, it's not the same. 869 00:54:18,159 --> 00:54:21,920 We lost a lot of stuff, but we kept the 870 00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:25,480 domain name. So it's experiencers dot com with an x 871 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,840 experiencers dot com. And you can email me through that 872 00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:34,280 website as well. And and you can find a link 873 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,440 a direct link to the book there, because sometimes if 874 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,800 you if you just try to google it, you don't 875 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,000 always find it. So you have a direct link on 876 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,280 the website. 877 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:49,119 Speaker 1: Okay, and just go to experiencers dot com. Like, I'll 878 00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:51,960 put that link in the description. And thank you so much. 879 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,320 This was fascinating. This is a really fun This was 880 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,199 a really fun case. 881 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. This was a good interview. Thank you 882 00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:58,199 so much. 883 00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:00,800 Speaker 1: All Right, I'll send you a when I uploaded. 884 00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:02,360 Speaker 2: Cool awesome. 885 00:55:02,599 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: I have a good night.