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<v Speaker 1>One day, fourteen year old Abbey left school on a

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<v Speaker 1>crisp afternoon, walking home the same familiar route, only this

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<v Speaker 1>time she never made it. She vanished without a trace,

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<v Speaker 1>setting off a desperate search that would consume her family, community,

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<v Speaker 1>and law enforcement for months. However, soon speculation spread that

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<v Speaker 1>Abbey may not have been abducted, but instead just a

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<v Speaker 1>runaway teen looking for attention. What no one knew was

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<v Speaker 1>that just thirty minutes away, she was trapped in a nightmare,

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<v Speaker 1>held captive, and her only means of escape was her

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<v Speaker 1>own wit. This is the survival story of Abigail Hernandez.

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<v Speaker 1>My name's Ben, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.

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<v Speaker 1>Grim, a true crime podcast. The following audience listener, it's

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<v Speaker 1>time for a survival story.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank goodness, right, I'm stoked. We haven't done a survival

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<v Speaker 2>case for some time.

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<v Speaker 1>We haven't done a survival case in sometime, actually, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's well overdue. And this is a good one. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>when I found it, I was like hell to the

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<v Speaker 1>s because I didn't realize it was even a survival

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<v Speaker 1>story at first, and then I realized it was, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like hell to the yes, So yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. Yeah, looking forward to this one.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to know what's not awesome though?

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<v Speaker 2>I was just going to bring that up, but you

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<v Speaker 2>go for it.

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<v Speaker 1>We had a little bit of a technical difficulty situation

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<v Speaker 1>happened with uploading our last episode, so it was uploaded,

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<v Speaker 1>it just did not actually published like expected. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>our Friday's episode did not publish, publish on Friday. We

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<v Speaker 1>ended up going through the weekend because we had some

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<v Speaker 1>celebrations and stuff and we were like work free sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing, or at least I was. I know you

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<v Speaker 1>were doing a little bit more, but I was definitely

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<v Speaker 1>hungover and not paying attention much to work. So I'll

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<v Speaker 1>just say that. And it took a few days to

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<v Speaker 1>notice that the episode did not publish, so totally our apologies.

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<v Speaker 1>It was published yesterday, so it is now up for

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<v Speaker 1>your listening pleasure.

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<v Speaker 2>M So it's kind of cool that you have like

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<v Speaker 2>probably two in one day that you get to bin

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<v Speaker 2>for now. I mean, fair enough, but yeah, it was

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<v Speaker 2>done and everything, so that sucks. It sucks, but you

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<v Speaker 2>know what should happen.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's the quirk of an indie podcast. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a team who's like messaging us like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, something's wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Like where the hell was your episode?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Fair enough, I mean we did have people message us,

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<v Speaker 1>and to be fair, if we paid attention to our

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<v Speaker 1>messages a little bit better, we would have seen. But

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, I was in hangover mode. We had

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<v Speaker 1>a Robbie Burn celebration and I had a lot there

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<v Speaker 1>was there was free wine on the table.

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<v Speaker 2>Bringing this up right now, I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Not gonna let that free wine go to waste before

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<v Speaker 1>we left.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't technically free, Ben, because we paid for our

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<v Speaker 2>tickets to be at said table.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you know what I mean. Okay, Well, we paid

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<v Speaker 1>for the wine. It wasn't gonna let it go to waste.

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<v Speaker 2>And for some reason, no one at our table was

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<v Speaker 2>drinking wine. So that was a big problem for Ben.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I had multiple bottles, I'm sorry, multiple glasses of Scotch.

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<v Speaker 1>And then yeah, the evening was winding down and I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, you guys aren't drinking this wine. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I better get to work. So and that was a mistake,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then I got in trouble for letting you

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<v Speaker 2>make said mistake.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's your fault. I made that mistake. It's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>not but I like.

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<v Speaker 2>To oh, oh my gosh, yeah, well I was actually my

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<v Speaker 2>mistake because I had to deal with that shit.

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<v Speaker 1>So sorry. Anyways, I think Abby's survival story is much

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<v Speaker 1>better than my survival story, So I think we should

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<v Speaker 1>get on to talking about that. But before we do,

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<v Speaker 1>we have some patrons to thank. We sure do, so

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<v Speaker 1>shout out to Steve Collins, Clara, Margie Winarski, page more,

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<v Speaker 1>Rachel Russell, and Cora. Thank you guys so much for

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<v Speaker 1>supporting us all around Patreon. You guys get a big

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<v Speaker 1>library of all those back back track backlog there we go,

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<v Speaker 1>backlog of the exclusive episodes plus one coming out here

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<v Speaker 1>in just a few days, because hey, it's almost the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the month. January is gone already.

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<v Speaker 2>Good bye January, right, But honestly, I'm kind of okay

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<v Speaker 2>with that because January February, like I could just be

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<v Speaker 2>done with them because then it's like our weather gets

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<v Speaker 2>warmer than snow, kind of spring smelting, and oh.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I'm for that. Yeah, Okay, let's do this. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>let's get into it. So the story is of young

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<v Speaker 3>Abigail Hernandez, but she also went by Abby, which is

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<v Speaker 3>more frequently what she was called. So I'll be calling

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<v Speaker 3>her Abbey for the duration of the show.

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<v Speaker 1>So. Abby was born on October twelfth, nineteen ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 1>in Manchester, New Hampshire. She was raised primarily by her mother, Zenya,

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<v Speaker 1>alongside her sister Sarah, after her parents were divorced when

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<v Speaker 1>she was relatively young.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you realize her birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>October twelfth, same as yours, except she was a decade later?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it ninety nineteen ninety eight? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Could I say eighty eight?

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<v Speaker 2>I thought you said eighty nine, but I could be

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<v Speaker 2>totally off here.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well you weren't born in eighty nine either, You

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<v Speaker 1>were born in eighty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I know, so one year. I was thinking one year.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, but difference.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, despite her parents' separation, Abby had a relatively

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<v Speaker 1>happy childhood. Like, honestly, it was one of those childhoods

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<v Speaker 1>that was like most people would look at it and say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, you grew up in a really good home.

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<v Speaker 1>You had like the perfect childhood sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Hey, that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Not that it was anything over the top. It was

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<v Speaker 1>just a good child, right, There wasn't anything wrong with it, exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>So despite her her parents, she had this childhood and

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<v Speaker 1>she was a bright student. Right, Sorry, not despite her

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<v Speaker 1>her parents, despite her parents' separation, I should have said.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a bright student, well liked by her classmates

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<v Speaker 1>and known for her athleticism. Friends described her as kind,

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<v Speaker 1>upbeat and always full of energy. At fourteen years old,

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<v Speaker 1>she had just started her freshman year at Kenneth High

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<v Speaker 1>School in North Conway, looking forward to all the experiences

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<v Speaker 1>that came with being a teenager. You know exactly, those

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<v Speaker 1>exciting years, right, the exciting yet terrifying years of being

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<v Speaker 1>a teenager.

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<v Speaker 2>When you think you're like just hot shit really.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh one percent. But trust that you had no idea,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least I didn't anyways. But on October ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen, everything changed for Abby. That afternoon, she left

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<v Speaker 1>school as usual, walking home like she did every other day,

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<v Speaker 1>but this time she never made it home. Now, at first,

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<v Speaker 1>no one noticed anything wrong, but by seven pm, when

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<v Speaker 1>Danya got home from work, it was clear something was off.

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<v Speaker 1>Abby wasn't there, The family's dog hadn't been let out,

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<v Speaker 1>and no one like none of her belongings were home

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<v Speaker 1>from school, right, they were missing. Her bag wasn't by

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<v Speaker 1>the door, her shoes, those little signs right. She knew

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<v Speaker 1>she hadn't gone out with friends, and it wasn't like

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<v Speaker 1>her to just disappear without telling her that she would

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<v Speaker 1>be going anywhere after school. So Zenya's concern quickly turned

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<v Speaker 1>into fear. She had a gut feeling that something was

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<v Speaker 1>terribly wrong, So, wasting no time, she went to the

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<v Speaker 1>police and quickly filed a missing person's report. Abby hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>been having trouble at home, she told them, Not at home,

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<v Speaker 1>not at school. There's no reason that she would have

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<v Speaker 1>run away. She hadn't taken anything with her either, no

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<v Speaker 1>clothes or nothing like that to suggest that she would

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<v Speaker 1>have run.

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<v Speaker 2>Away prepared for it anyway exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So this only deepened that worry that something had happened

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<v Speaker 1>to the police and Zenya were on the same page thinking, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>something most likely happened, And sadly those fears were justified,

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<v Speaker 1>oh God, because Abby had been abducted on October ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen. That day, fourteen year old Abby left Kennett

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<v Speaker 1>High School like she did every afternoon, but on this

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<v Speaker 1>particular day, there was one small difference. She had a

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<v Speaker 1>slight limp in her walk. Wasn't anything obvious, not necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>if you were like paying attention, you might see it,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, just kind of like a slight limp. See,

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<v Speaker 1>her feet were aching. She had been wearing a brand

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<v Speaker 1>new pair of boots that were an early birthday present

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<v Speaker 1>from her mother that day. Though nice and stylish, they

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<v Speaker 1>were stiff and uncomfortable. Still that she was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>breaking them in, right, yeah, So by the time school

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<v Speaker 1>let out, every step was a little bit painful, Oh gosh. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So as she made her home, you know, the last

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<v Speaker 1>stretch in these painful boots. Yes, a man in a

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<v Speaker 1>navy blue truck slowed down beside her on the road.

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<v Speaker 1>He noticed that little bit of a limp in her walk,

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<v Speaker 1>and he offered her a ride. At first, Abby hesitated.

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<v Speaker 1>She knew better than to get into a car with

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<v Speaker 1>a stranger, but her feet were aching, and the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of skipping a long walk was so tempting, So, thinking

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<v Speaker 1>she could, you know, keep things safe, she asked to

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<v Speaker 1>be dropped off at a local restaurant near her home

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<v Speaker 1>instead of giving her exact address, Right, okay, so the

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<v Speaker 1>man agreed, but with one small condition. He said he

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<v Speaker 1>needed to make a quick stop at a home depot

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<v Speaker 1>first on the way. So as soon as the truck

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<v Speaker 1>pulled into this parking lot, an uneasy, feeling washed over abby,

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<v Speaker 1>something wasn't right. Instinctively, she knew that she needed to

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<v Speaker 1>get out of the vehicle, so she reached for her seatbelt,

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<v Speaker 1>ready to open that door and go. But before she

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<v Speaker 1>could open the door, the man pulled a gun on her.

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<v Speaker 1>He pressed it again her head, and he threatened to

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<v Speaker 1>shoot her or even slit her throat if she didn't comply.

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<v Speaker 1>Any hope of escaping vanished instantly.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so this is this terrible Like she completely knew better,

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<v Speaker 2>but like it was just that her feet were just

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<v Speaker 2>so fucking sore that she just like had a moment

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<v Speaker 2>of weakness.

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<v Speaker 1>Comes exactly, Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>That is Oh that is just honestly terrible, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit? And like to just have I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>this person, maybe he has had been watching hers. I

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<v Speaker 2>was gonna say, like it's a terrible like in the

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<v Speaker 2>wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing for

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<v Speaker 2>him to like notice this, But maybe he had already

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<v Speaker 2>been noticing her I don't know, but ugh, yeah, brutal.

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<v Speaker 1>So the man restrained her. He wrapped a jacket around

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<v Speaker 1>her head to prevent her from seeing where they were going,

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<v Speaker 1>and he took her phone away and immediately destroyed it,

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<v Speaker 1>making sure that no one could track them mm hm.

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<v Speaker 1>As they drove, Abby tried to peek through the fabric,

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<v Speaker 1>desperate for any clue about her location or where they

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<v Speaker 1>were going, but her captor caught on that she was

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<v Speaker 1>trying to look, so he tased her. The pain was sharp,

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<v Speaker 1>and she knew she was powerless against him. She kept

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<v Speaker 1>her head down and didn't try to peek again. The

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<v Speaker 1>drive felt endless. When the truck finally stopped, Abby was

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<v Speaker 1>pulled out and taken into a dark room. Her captor

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<v Speaker 1>forced her onto a bed, taped her eyes shut, placing

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<v Speaker 1>a motorcycle helmet over her head, and her hands were

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<v Speaker 1>zip tied down, and then the nightmare truly began. Abby

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<v Speaker 1>was sexually assaulted and raped for the first time, something

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<v Speaker 1>that would happen repeatedly over the next nine months that

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<v Speaker 1>she was held. She had no idea where she was

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<v Speaker 1>or if she would ever make it home again.

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<v Speaker 2>Nine fucking months, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Nine months of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this guy, Holy shit, it's just like

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<v Speaker 2>the anger.

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<v Speaker 1>That it's Oh, trust me, I share that feeling of

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<v Speaker 1>anger the entire time I was researching this. I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>like you, mother, But trust me, well he gets he

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<v Speaker 1>gets his dues.

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<v Speaker 2>Still, like, it's just still I can't fathom or you're

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<v Speaker 2>just doing this stuff, Like even though we've done so

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<v Speaker 2>many episodes, we've been doing this for so long, it

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<v Speaker 2>just literally still.

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<v Speaker 1>It hits home every time and it's unfathomable, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>say that humans are actually capable of this. When we

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<v Speaker 1>do these episodes, it's like, okay, this is a one off.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what, one rotten person out there could do this,

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<v Speaker 1>one rotten thing. But we are well over two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty episodes in a sea of way more cases.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not one off now. There there is way too

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<v Speaker 1>high of a percentage of human beings that are willing

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<v Speaker 1>and capable to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, how fucked up are you that you think

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<v Speaker 2>that you can just take this little girl that's like

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<v Speaker 2>walking home from work from her family or walking home

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<v Speaker 2>from school storry and just held her captive for like

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<v Speaker 2>your own disgusting needs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so while Abbey's nightmare was just beginning, and clearly

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<v Speaker 1>it was a nightmare, because I mean, Nichole is certainly

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<v Speaker 1>reacting to it, and I'm sure you guys are too,

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<v Speaker 1>because rightfully so. Law enforcement agencies wasted no time in

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<v Speaker 1>trying to find her. The Conway Police Department, New Hampshire

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<v Speaker 1>State Police and the FBI joined forces, determined to track

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<v Speaker 1>down any leads that they can to point to her whereabouts.

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<v Speaker 1>Search dogs, in fact, were even brought in retracing Abby's

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<v Speaker 1>usual route home. Now these dogs noses, They confirmed what

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<v Speaker 1>investigators already suspected, that she had made it part of

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<v Speaker 1>the way home before her trail disappeared. Right meanwhile, volunteers

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00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.600
<v Speaker 1>from the community covered miles of wood a terrain, hoping

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<v Speaker 1>to find any clue that could lead them to her

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<v Speaker 1>safe of val return. At Kennet High School, Abbey's absence

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<v Speaker 1>was deeply felt. One of her classmates described the atmosphere

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<v Speaker 1>as very thick with sadness, like a cloud hanging over

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<v Speaker 1>the entire school. Flyers with her face were everywhere, taped storefronts,

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00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.240
<v Speaker 1>on street signs, they were on car windows. The entire

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00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.159
<v Speaker 1>town kept watch, clinging to hope that someone somewhere had

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<v Speaker 1>seen something her mother's. Enya avoided the press as much

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<v Speaker 1>as possible, only speaking in carefully prepared statements as the

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<v Speaker 1>advice of investigators. During one emotional press conference, she spoke

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<v Speaker 1>directly to her daughter, quote, Abby, you matter to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe you're alive, and I know that hope speaks

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<v Speaker 1>louder than fear. It is my hope that you can

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<v Speaker 1>reach out to me. I feel your absence every day,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want you home with me.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't say yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Even as the search dragged on with no major breakthroughs,

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<v Speaker 1>Zenya and those close to Abby refused to give up. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>nearly a month after her disappearance, something unexpected happened. On

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<v Speaker 1>November sixth, twenty thirteen, Zenya received a letter. It was

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<v Speaker 1>postmarked October twenty second, just two weeks after Abby had vanished,

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<v Speaker 1>and investigators kept the letter quiet at first, needing time

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00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>to verify its authenticity. When it was finally confirmed to

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<v Speaker 1>be written by Abby in her own handwriting, relief washed

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00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.320
<v Speaker 1>over her loved ones. It was proof that she was

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00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:46.879
<v Speaker 1>still alive, but something felt wrong. The letter made no

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00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:50.200
<v Speaker 1>mention of a kidnapping. Instead, it was read as if

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00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Abby had left her on her own free will, reassuring

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00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.399
<v Speaker 1>her mother that she was safe, but she wasn't going

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<v Speaker 1>to be coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Home, so he made her write this fucking letter.

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00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.679
<v Speaker 1>He made her write this letter. So now I didn't

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00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.559
<v Speaker 1>actually have this in here. I did see it on

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00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.960
<v Speaker 1>a documentary though, because we know this is a survival story,

296
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.279
<v Speaker 1>so that's straight out there. So I saw Abby talking

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00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.120
<v Speaker 1>about this letter and the first time that she was

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00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.279
<v Speaker 1>told to write this letter from her captor, Like the

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00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.159
<v Speaker 1>man had left her alone to write the letter, right,

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00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>she wrote it, and she wanted to make sure she

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00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.120
<v Speaker 1>got out a message to authorities and her mom still right,

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00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.879
<v Speaker 1>So on the back of the paper, she took her

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00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:35.000
<v Speaker 1>fingernail and wrote help kidnapped.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, yeah, oh my goodness. Okay, so like the

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00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.440
<v Speaker 2>fact that she's already been missing for what two weeks

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00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>and still has her like wits about her to like think,

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00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, how can I make this hopefully benefit me?

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00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, So she didn't write that in inkor or whatever

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00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.120
<v Speaker 1>that's's given to to write, and she just kind of

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00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.120
<v Speaker 1>scrolled it in a fingernail on the paper. However, her captor.

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00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Did did find that oh really, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>After taking the letter. He came back a little while

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<v Speaker 1>later and he said, I found your message.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, okay, So.

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00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Then he forced her to rewrite it. So, unfortunately, Abby

316
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>was unable to get out that message on the letter

317
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:22.319
<v Speaker 1>to her mother. But still her n authorities knew that, Yeah,

318
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.680
<v Speaker 1>they weren't buying that she ran away and she was

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<v Speaker 1>fine on her own, just not coming home.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well good, I'm glad that they're not buying that.

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00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Authorities now had more questions and answers if Abby,

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00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, of course, truly left willingly, as his letter said,

323
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.599
<v Speaker 1>but they weren't buying it. Why hadn't she taken anything

324
00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.480
<v Speaker 1>with her right? Why was her phone destroyed? Whatever? Like,

325
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.680
<v Speaker 1>nothing just made sense. So the questions were piling up,

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00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.759
<v Speaker 1>of course, and when news broke the letter, it sent

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00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:53.160
<v Speaker 1>out a wave of doubt through the community. Some people

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<v Speaker 1>who had spent weeks searching for Abby now wondered if

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00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.640
<v Speaker 1>she had simply just run away on her own. Theories

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00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>and room or spread quickly. One even suggested that she

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00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.599
<v Speaker 1>had been secretly pregnant and sent away by her mother.

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00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, fucking rumors.

333
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Another one claiming that she left to be with someone

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00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:11.880
<v Speaker 1>that she met online.

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00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, the police would probably have found if she was

336
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:17.240
<v Speaker 2>talking to someone online though.

337
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Right, But the public is basically now split down the center, yeah,

338
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.279
<v Speaker 1>saying like, Okay, we have a missing child, and the

339
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.799
<v Speaker 1>other half is like, we have a letter saying she's fine.

340
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Why are we putting this effort and money public taxpayers

341
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.640
<v Speaker 1>money into finding this child? We need to drop this.

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00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>And there were even comments from certain individuals among the

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00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.799
<v Speaker 1>public that the money consumed for this you know search

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00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.240
<v Speaker 1>should be paid back by the family.

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00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Well, honestly, it's like easier for I feel humans

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00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>to believe though that she okay, like she just went

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00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.839
<v Speaker 2>away on her own, like you know, instead of what

348
00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.680
<v Speaker 2>actually was happening. It's just easier for our minds to

349
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.279
<v Speaker 2>go to be like convince ourselves she's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't know if it is. Honestly, I

351
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>think I might disagree with you on.

352
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:10.759
<v Speaker 2>That, really, what I do, Like, you don't want to think,

353
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.119
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, she's held captive and being like a

354
00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:17.759
<v Speaker 2>sex slave, well a little fourteen year old girl. No,

355
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:19.480
<v Speaker 2>she just like ran off on her own.

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00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:21.960
<v Speaker 1>If you're convincing yourself that she ran off on her own,

357
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.240
<v Speaker 1>you're also convincing herself that the police aren't doing their jobs.

358
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.279
<v Speaker 1>You're convincing yourself that her mother was complicit in helping

359
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 1>the situation or not telling the truth. That there's bigger

360
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:35.039
<v Speaker 1>lies going around than one individual. I think it's a

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00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.720
<v Speaker 1>case of you know, keyboard warriors, you know, people sitting

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00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.359
<v Speaker 1>behind a keyboard and doing the lazy thing of just

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00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.359
<v Speaker 1>pointing fingers without even coming to a consensus of what

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<v Speaker 1>reality might hold.

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00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I don't quite understand though, why, like that keyboard

366
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.480
<v Speaker 2>warrior thing isn't necessary in the situation at all.

367
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.200
<v Speaker 1>But that's what people were doing, like on news posts

368
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.920
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, or on Facebook posts on fine you know,

369
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.519
<v Speaker 1>find Abby. This sort of commenting and mentality was what

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<v Speaker 1>was coming forward.

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00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.839
<v Speaker 2>So this letter kind of really didn't help.

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00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.200
<v Speaker 1>This letter was more so what created this riff and

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00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.160
<v Speaker 1>this thought because the letter said, hey, you know, I've

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00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.079
<v Speaker 1>run away and I'm not coming home. So then people

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00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.039
<v Speaker 1>were like, well, she ran away and she's not coming home.

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00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's move on kind of thing.

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00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:26.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So her mother, though Zenya, never wavered. She dismissed

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00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the rumors outright, insisting that her daughter had been taken

379
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.960
<v Speaker 1>against her will. While investigators in the community searched tirelessly

380
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.480
<v Speaker 1>for Abby. She was being held just thirty minutes away

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<v Speaker 1>in the town of Gorham, New Hampshire. Hidden away on

382
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.079
<v Speaker 1>her captor's property, she was confined in a cold, windowless

383
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:51.519
<v Speaker 1>storage container, isolated from the world, enduring daily abuse. Now,

384
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.480
<v Speaker 1>despite the horrors of her situation, Abby remained determined. She

385
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.279
<v Speaker 1>knew that fighting back or trying to escape outright could

386
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.200
<v Speaker 1>get her killed. I mean, she's already been hazed multiple times,

387
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.759
<v Speaker 1>She's had a gun held to her head and threats

388
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.400
<v Speaker 1>uttered to her. So she took a different approach. She

389
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.160
<v Speaker 1>tried to humanize herself in the eyes of her captor.

390
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:16.480
<v Speaker 1>To quote her, she told her captor this quote, I

391
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>don't judge you for this. If you let me go,

392
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.599
<v Speaker 1>I won't tell anybody. You don't seem like a bad person.

393
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Everybody makes mistakes.

394
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Hm. Wow, Yeah, I've seen that happen before or her.

395
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I was watching a documentary and yeah, they were just

396
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.079
<v Speaker 2>like I think it was actually the the we did

397
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:39.079
<v Speaker 2>the episode.

398
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.880
<v Speaker 1>The dating game Dating Game Killer Rodney Alcala.

399
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and were they his like last victim or whatever.

400
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.400
<v Speaker 2>It was just like like, can we not tell anyone

401
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.880
<v Speaker 2>about this kind of thing, and you know, like you

402
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.359
<v Speaker 2>just like completely play with their head, which is kind

403
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:53.799
<v Speaker 2>of smart.

404
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:58.720
<v Speaker 1>It really honestly is. And to be fair, this is

405
00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.519
<v Speaker 1>going to be what I He's gonna do during her

406
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:03.440
<v Speaker 1>entirety of being helped.

407
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:06.079
<v Speaker 2>Wow. And that takes strength, it does.

408
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.680
<v Speaker 1>And like, honestly, at first, like these words that she

409
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:10.480
<v Speaker 1>was saying to him, it was falling on deaf years.

410
00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Of course he's not believing her at first, right. Instead

411
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.440
<v Speaker 1>of showing mercy, you know, he kept her locked away,

412
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:20.640
<v Speaker 1>subjecting her to these repeated assaults. But in these like

413
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.559
<v Speaker 1>in these darkest moments when she's locked up and she's alone,

414
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>after these assaults and everything, Abby actually did even take

415
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:32.759
<v Speaker 1>like to prayer, right, So she's praying to God. However,

416
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:37.599
<v Speaker 1>one thing that this breaks my fucking heart. When she

417
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:40.400
<v Speaker 1>prayed to God when she was done, she refused to

418
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.240
<v Speaker 1>say Amen at the end because she didn't want God

419
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:51.200
<v Speaker 1>to leave her alone. Whoa seriously, yes, so she never

420
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.079
<v Speaker 1>closed the prayer that God wouldn't leave her.

421
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Whoa, whoa? Whoa? Okay, yeah, my heart just just sunk

422
00:22:59.240 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>through the ground.

423
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So these days and weeks turned into months and

424
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.240
<v Speaker 1>the times going by, and Abby continued to play this

425
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.559
<v Speaker 1>long game. She was very careful and always compliant, never

426
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.880
<v Speaker 1>giving her captor any reason to doubt her, and slowly

427
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.119
<v Speaker 1>her strategy began to work. He started allowing her into

428
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.119
<v Speaker 1>his home, though only under strict conditions. He made her

429
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.519
<v Speaker 1>work for him, forcing her to print counterfeit money. He

430
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.200
<v Speaker 1>recently came up with this plan. He's going to start

431
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.799
<v Speaker 1>printing money, so he got her to work on this,

432
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 1>but he still didn't trust her fully, so to make

433
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 1>sure that she never tried to escape or call for help,

434
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:40.319
<v Speaker 1>he placed a canine shop caller around her neck, and

435
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.759
<v Speaker 1>to demonstrate his power, he forced her to raise her

436
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>voice when she first put it on to activate the

437
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 1>caller so that she got the painful shock right, And

438
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.440
<v Speaker 1>of course the shock made her body sees up, and

439
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.000
<v Speaker 1>he told her he's like, now you feel what it's like.

440
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So basically, if you try anything this is going to

441
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:02.440
<v Speaker 1>happen immediately, you're not getting anywhere. Like, just do as

442
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 1>I say, right, uh huh yeah. So it was his

443
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 1>way of controlling her and a concert reminder that he

444
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>was in charge, and to reinforce that authority, he demanded

445
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Abby even call him Master, something that she had been

446
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.839
<v Speaker 1>already doing, but she had obeyed, you know, making sure

447
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.400
<v Speaker 1>that she's compliant, being nice and doing what he wants, right,

448
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:24.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she had no other choice, and she had

449
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:28.039
<v Speaker 1>this game plan, this long game plan, and I mentioned

450
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:28.839
<v Speaker 1>it was working.

451
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 2>What a disgusting piece of shit though, just this master thing, ugh,

452
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I know.

453
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.359
<v Speaker 1>So Abby never lost sight of her ultimate goal, which

454
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 1>was survival. She continued to build trust, convincing her captor

455
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.640
<v Speaker 1>that she was, you know, on his side, and over

456
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.359
<v Speaker 1>time he began to give her these small privileges I

457
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.119
<v Speaker 1>already mentioned, you know what she's now let in the house. Yeah,

458
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.400
<v Speaker 1>but she also got other ones, like books to pass

459
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.880
<v Speaker 1>the time. So he gave her whatever books he had

460
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.880
<v Speaker 1>in his house, including one that was an old cookbook.

461
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Now the cookbook would change everything. See that cookbook. As

462
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.759
<v Speaker 1>she flipped through the pages, Abby noticed something written on

463
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:15.839
<v Speaker 1>the inside of the cover, a name, Nick Sorry, Nate Kibby.

464
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.880
<v Speaker 1>She had never heard this name before, and up until

465
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:21.920
<v Speaker 1>that moment, she hadn't known what to call the man

466
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 1>who had stolen her freedom. You know, he just master

467
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:29.839
<v Speaker 1>as he demanded, right, So, trying to appear casual, she

468
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 1>looked up and asked, who's Nate? Kibbi. The man was

469
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:38.319
<v Speaker 1>stunned and he replied, how do you know my name?

470
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Okay so.

471
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Nathaniel Kibby was born on July fifteenth, nineteen eighty and

472
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.440
<v Speaker 1>grew up in Conway, New Hampshire. He attended Kennett High School,

473
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.759
<v Speaker 1>the same school Abby would later go to. From a

474
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>young age, he had a history of trouble with the law.

475
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 1>At eighteen, he was arrested for assault, the first in

476
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.599
<v Speaker 1>a series of run ins with the U S authorities.

477
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.160
<v Speaker 1>One officer who knew him described him as intelligent but argumentative,

478
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 1>someone who thrived in conflict. Nate had strong political opinions

479
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:13.720
<v Speaker 1>and was deeply interested in conspiracy theories. He was also

480
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 1>an avid gun enthusiast. As an adult, he moved to Gorham,

481
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>but continued working in Conway. He was working as a

482
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:24.640
<v Speaker 1>machinist at EMM Precisions Inc. Now. He held that job

483
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:28.039
<v Speaker 1>for eighteen years before unfortunately being laid off in April

484
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 1>of twenty fourteen due to economic cutbacks. Those who knew

485
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.079
<v Speaker 1>him had mixed impressions. Some neighbors said he was polite

486
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:40.319
<v Speaker 1>but mostly kept to himself. His landlord described him as grumpy,

487
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.759
<v Speaker 1>but noted that he always paid his rent on time

488
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:46.039
<v Speaker 1>and never caused problems. No one suspected that he was

489
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:50.440
<v Speaker 1>holding a teenage girl captive in a storage container contained

490
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>on his property.

491
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Was he so? Was he laid off once he got

492
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.480
<v Speaker 2>her then or captured her?

493
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I believe so. Yeah, in fact, this is my theory.

494
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>I haven't looked at the exact timeline or dug into

495
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.400
<v Speaker 1>my theory on this, but I believe he may have

496
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.039
<v Speaker 1>started printing counterfeit money once laid off.

497
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I feel like when you, I don't know,

498
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.559
<v Speaker 2>people who just like are laid off or don't have

499
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.079
<v Speaker 2>jobs or something, I just think get in trouble, Like

500
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.440
<v Speaker 2>when you're not busy enough. I think you can just

501
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 2>you have too much time on your hands. That sometimes

502
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.599
<v Speaker 2>isn't always good.

503
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you're right on that one, I think. But

504
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>in all honesty, like I think that might have played

505
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 1>into Abby's hand a little bit because now you have

506
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.240
<v Speaker 1>someone who's been working for the same company for eighteen

507
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 1>years laid off and he's at home alone, so he's

508
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.400
<v Speaker 1>got a whole whack of emotions he's going through with that, right,

509
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.920
<v Speaker 1>and if you have you know, her being nice to

510
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.839
<v Speaker 1>him or consoling him all these sort of things. It's

511
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.759
<v Speaker 1>now going to even more bring that like human connection

512
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.359
<v Speaker 1>out and maybe you know, it could have saved her

513
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:08.000
<v Speaker 1>life even that.

514
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

515
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.440
<v Speaker 1>So to backtrack a little bit though, just days before

516
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>abducting Abby, Nate had actually even been arrested for marijuana possession,

517
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:20.839
<v Speaker 1>though nothing significant came of it. But then in March

518
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.079
<v Speaker 1>of twenty fourteen, while Abby was still being held, he

519
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 1>was charged with assault after an incident involving another woman.

520
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.079
<v Speaker 1>So Nate had been in a minor car accident when

521
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:34.880
<v Speaker 1>a woman apparently hit his vehicle. He got out, enraged

522
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.720
<v Speaker 1>and struck her with the handle of his pistol and

523
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.880
<v Speaker 1>shoved her to the ground. So this led to an

524
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:43.720
<v Speaker 1>assault charge in a court order to surrender all of

525
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.839
<v Speaker 1>his firearms. Now, as I mentioned, he was a firearm enthusiast,

526
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.680
<v Speaker 1>so he had quite the collection of arms in his home.

527
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.119
<v Speaker 1>So he actually had a date that he had to

528
00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.599
<v Speaker 1>surrender these by and surprisingly enough, a pairent. This doesn't

529
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>ever happen like this, but Nate called police a few

530
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.240
<v Speaker 1>days before the collection date and he's like, come pick

531
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 1>them all up. So police they arrived to his property

532
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>to collect the weapons. They would go inside. You know,

533
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.480
<v Speaker 1>they're taking all his arms and everything. But one officer

534
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:22.119
<v Speaker 1>looked over and saw the shipping container. He asked Nate

535
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:24.440
<v Speaker 1>about it, kind of casually. He's like, what's in there?

536
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.319
<v Speaker 1>Nate shut down the conversation quickly. He reminded the officer

537
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.599
<v Speaker 1>that the court only applied, so the court order only

538
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.599
<v Speaker 1>applied to his firearms, that he needed to surrender, and

539
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't required to answer any other questions. Unfortunately, Nate

540
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:48.119
<v Speaker 1>was right, Okay, the officers had no legal reason to

541
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.200
<v Speaker 1>investigate further.

542
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised that it would have grabbed like the police

543
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.559
<v Speaker 2>officer's attention, Like was he just thinking there was more

544
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.319
<v Speaker 2>firearms and stuff in there? Think?

545
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:05.359
<v Speaker 1>So okay, Yeah, they didn't have any any legal reason

546
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.599
<v Speaker 1>or they weren't allowed to search the property. They were

547
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.400
<v Speaker 1>just coming into seas firearms. Yeah, Nate led them to

548
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 1>his firearms.

549
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.000
<v Speaker 2>There they are because like I mean, a lot of

550
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:16.960
<v Speaker 2>people have shipping containers and shit, right, Like, it's not

551
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:18.599
<v Speaker 2>necessarily abnormals.

552
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>It's honestly not And I don't think every single shipping

553
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>container is holding a human being, And honestly, most shipping

554
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 1>containers probably aren't holding firearms either.

555
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean storage most likely.

556
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:39.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like humidity and frost in cold weather, moisture and

557
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:42.759
<v Speaker 1>stuff can damage firearms quite easily, and in a shipping

558
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:46.279
<v Speaker 1>container they're susceptible to that, right, So I don't think

559
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 1>most people would be storing firearms in there, So I

560
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 1>don't think these officers have any reason to suspect that

561
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 1>he would be, and thus they don't have a legal

562
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.759
<v Speaker 1>reason to go ask questions or open it. So they

563
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.799
<v Speaker 1>moved on. But what they didn't know was, of course

564
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 1>that Abby was trapped inside that very container, still waiting

565
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:07.960
<v Speaker 1>for her chance to escape. So close, but.

566
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so far. There's often things like these like this

567
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.519
<v Speaker 2>in cases. Some are similar to this, where it's like

568
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:20.400
<v Speaker 2>there's that small chance but it just doesn't.

569
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Well in this case though, because there's a lot of

570
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 1>cases where we cover, especially these abduction cases, where yeah,

571
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:28.440
<v Speaker 1>officers are on property and it's like they just didn't

572
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:32.119
<v Speaker 1>quite do their job searching this one, I think the

573
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.240
<v Speaker 1>officers did do their job search. Yeah, they had no

574
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:39.759
<v Speaker 1>they had no ability to search further, which is unfortunate. Yeah,

575
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:41.799
<v Speaker 1>so this was of course a close call for Nate,

576
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 1>but he knew as long as he kept quiet, he

577
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>could stay in control of the situation and he managed

578
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:51.359
<v Speaker 1>to dodge suspicion once, but another encounter was soon coming,

579
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:56.319
<v Speaker 1>one that would ultimately bring him down. So over time,

580
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Nate's dynamic with Abby did shift. He started seeing himself

581
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>as some sort of a guardian, if he will, who

582
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.359
<v Speaker 1>is taking care of Abby?

583
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.240
<v Speaker 2>So her game was her mind game.

584
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Was working one hundred per cent.

585
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is so smart.

586
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:18.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So as a result, he stopped assaulting her and

587
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:22.559
<v Speaker 1>instead began seeking out escorts instead to fulfill that void.

588
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.640
<v Speaker 1>And this is how he met a woman named Lauren.

589
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:29.000
<v Speaker 1>So he met Lauren online and during one of their meetings,

590
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.039
<v Speaker 1>he paid Lauren one hundred and fifty dollars for their

591
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 1>time together. But instead of anything physical, Lauren reported that

592
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Speaker 1>he simply just kind of held her and he kind

593
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:41.359
<v Speaker 1>of just rubbed her head on his lap, and she

594
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 1>eventually fell asleep and she woke up and he was

595
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.119
<v Speaker 1>gone sort of thing. So it was an interesting encounter.

596
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:50.079
<v Speaker 1>Let's just say that it was more of an emotional thing.

597
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess now. What Lauren didn't know was that the

598
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.880
<v Speaker 1>money that he left behind when she woke up, that

599
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.599
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty dollars was counterfeit. So Lauren later

600
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.680
<v Speaker 1>tried to use one of the fake bills at a

601
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:04.359
<v Speaker 1>store and the clerk at the store looked at the

602
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 1>bill and was like, can you hold on a second,

603
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.119
<v Speaker 1>And she called a manager over and she walked off.

604
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:12.799
<v Speaker 1>Had a conversation Lauren suspects nothing, hey, no reason to

605
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:15.839
<v Speaker 1>think that this is fraudulent money. Just politely stands there

606
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.200
<v Speaker 1>and wait. Then the till clerk came back over and said,

607
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 1>you police are on their way. This is you know,

608
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:30.119
<v Speaker 1>counterfeit money. Yeah, she called the police. So Lauren was

609
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.039
<v Speaker 1>about to be rested on the spot. She wasn't allowed

610
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:34.400
<v Speaker 1>to leave the store, and she realized that the trouble

611
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.720
<v Speaker 1>that she was about to get in and Lauren called Nate.

612
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.839
<v Speaker 1>She had his phone number. She told him she gave

613
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.839
<v Speaker 1>his name to the police as a source of the

614
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:49.759
<v Speaker 1>counterfeit money quote. She even said whatever you're making your basement,

615
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>you better clean it up right now because they're coming

616
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>for you.

617
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I wonder why she would decide to call him like that.

618
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:58.640
<v Speaker 1>It was more of a threat. I think like she

619
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:02.079
<v Speaker 1>called to Bret him being like, you asshole, you fuck

620
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 1>me over now I'm getting arrested. Just so you know,

621
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.319
<v Speaker 1>I fucking gave him your name, h like, you know,

622
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>rubbing it in his face sort of.

623
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Thing, I guess. But then that does give him the

624
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 2>opportunity in time to you know, fix stuff or hide stuff.

625
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but panic set in for Nate. He knew that

626
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.000
<v Speaker 1>once police arrived, they would be searching every inch of

627
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.880
<v Speaker 1>his home, which meant not only would they find the

628
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.519
<v Speaker 1>things that he has for making counterfeit money, but they

629
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:31.679
<v Speaker 1>would also find Abby. He had no time to think,

630
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.400
<v Speaker 1>he had no time to react. He just flew into

631
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:38.719
<v Speaker 1>panic mode. He had to get rid of everything that

632
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.599
<v Speaker 1>he could, anything that would incriminate him, so he started

633
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:47.719
<v Speaker 1>with getting rid of Abby. On July twentieth, twenty fourteen,

634
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Nate rushed Abby into his car and drove her back

635
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.400
<v Speaker 1>to North Conway. By this point, she was now fifteen

636
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 1>years old, and as they approached the town, he handed

637
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.039
<v Speaker 1>her a bag containing the same clothes that she had

638
00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:02.079
<v Speaker 1>been wearing the day she he had a ducted that

639
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:07.360
<v Speaker 1>abducted her. There we go, thank you. Then, in a

640
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:11.920
<v Speaker 1>surreal full circle moment, he dropped her off exactly in

641
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.880
<v Speaker 1>the same spot picked her up, Oh my goodness. Before

642
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.760
<v Speaker 1>driving away, he made Abby promise not to turn him in.

643
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.880
<v Speaker 1>As he disappeared down the road, Abby stood there in

644
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:31.719
<v Speaker 1>disbelief she was free. She later recalled, laughing in pure joy,

645
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:33.840
<v Speaker 1>unable to believe it was real.

646
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

647
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.880
<v Speaker 1>To quote her, oh my god, this actually happened. I'm

648
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:42.840
<v Speaker 1>a free person. I never thought it would happen to me,

649
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:44.599
<v Speaker 1>But I'm free.

650
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh. Okay, that that is just like I don't

651
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.679
<v Speaker 2>know this Abby girl, Like I am kind of obsessed

652
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:53.239
<v Speaker 2>with her.

653
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.320
<v Speaker 1>If Abby never built up the trust, he more than.

654
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Likely would have killed her.

655
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:03.119
<v Speaker 1>He would have killed in that situation. She had nine

656
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:06.639
<v Speaker 1>months to build up enough trust with her captor that

657
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 1>he believed she would not turn them in.

658
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. Hey, and then that just that moment of

659
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.559
<v Speaker 2>like pure joy, like where she actually is out.

660
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah whoa yeah. So if there's any doubt in your mind,

661
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Abby is one hundred and ten percent our badass of

662
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:28.719
<v Speaker 1>the day, no shit. So Abby walked the mile back

663
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:31.760
<v Speaker 1>to her home, her heart racing with every single step

664
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.880
<v Speaker 1>along the way, and when she finally arrived, the reunion

665
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.960
<v Speaker 1>with her family was both shocking and of course emotional.

666
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Zenya could hardly believe that her daughter was now standing

667
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 1>right in front of her she was alive. She later

668
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.719
<v Speaker 1>recalled that Abby was pale and thin, having lost a

669
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.239
<v Speaker 1>lot of weight, but what stood out was the look

670
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:58.079
<v Speaker 1>in her eyes. Something dark and unfamiliar laid in her stare,

671
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.039
<v Speaker 1>a reflection of the trauma that she endured over the

672
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:02.280
<v Speaker 1>last nine months.

673
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:05.199
<v Speaker 2>She would not have been the same girl.

674
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:10.039
<v Speaker 1>No now. At first, no detail about Abby's captivity captivity

675
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.639
<v Speaker 1>were released to the public. Authorities wanted to fully understand

676
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>what had happened before sharing any information. The only statement

677
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:21.079
<v Speaker 1>made was that Abby had not left on her own

678
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.719
<v Speaker 1>and did not know her captor before being abducted.

679
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.599
<v Speaker 2>So then all those people just had to eat their words.

680
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:31.119
<v Speaker 1>Eh, exactly. I bet you they felt like, right, shit out,

681
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:31.719
<v Speaker 1>I thought too.

682
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.320
<v Speaker 2>So really, if they took the time to just be like,

683
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, bitch and for no reason or whatever, like,

684
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:38.039
<v Speaker 2>that's bad.

685
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, despite her fear, Abby worked with law enforcement

686
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.320
<v Speaker 1>to create a sketch of the man who had taken her.

687
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:48.679
<v Speaker 1>She described him as having dark brown eyes, stubbled facial hair,

688
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:53.079
<v Speaker 1>and a stocky build, standing around five foot four inches tall.

689
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.519
<v Speaker 1>The sketch was made public in hopes that someone would

690
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:59.440
<v Speaker 1>recognize him. Abby also released the personal statement, thanking the

691
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 1>community for their relentless efforts to find her. She expressed

692
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:07.800
<v Speaker 1>her belief and hope and prayers, and she figured that

693
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.519
<v Speaker 1>they had played a very large role, a very major

694
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:14.159
<v Speaker 1>role in her return. But there was one crucial detail.

695
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:17.039
<v Speaker 1>Abby hadn't shared her captor's name.

696
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay I was just like she knows his name.

697
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:23.079
<v Speaker 1>She does know his name. Throughout her nine months in captivity,

698
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Nate had instilled a very deep fear into Abby. He

699
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.519
<v Speaker 1>had threatened not just her life, but also the lives

700
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.760
<v Speaker 1>of her family, even her pets. The psychological manipulation that

701
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:36.360
<v Speaker 1>he used was still fresh in her mind, and she

702
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:40.199
<v Speaker 1>thought of what might happen, what he might do if

703
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.639
<v Speaker 1>he found out that she spoke about him, So she

704
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.960
<v Speaker 1>did not want to release that name. The only person

705
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 1>she can find it in about the name would be

706
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:54.360
<v Speaker 1>her mother. She told Zenya that she hadn't revealed everything

707
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to police. She said that she did know his name.

708
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.760
<v Speaker 1>So when Zenya learned it the name, she did go

709
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:06.440
<v Speaker 1>to police and she gave the name Nathaniel Kibbi. One

710
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:10.639
<v Speaker 1>week later, authorities raided Nate's trailer and took him into

711
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.440
<v Speaker 1>custody in Carroll County. His bond was set for one

712
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>million dollars. As investigators dug deeper, they uncovered the full

713
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:21.559
<v Speaker 1>extent of the control they had that he had over Abbey.

714
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.800
<v Speaker 1>They found the zip ties that he used, They found

715
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 1>the shot collar, they found the stun gun, and even

716
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:31.840
<v Speaker 1>found spake surveillance cameras that he had placed around to

717
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 1>keep Abby under his control. He had made repeated death threats,

718
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:40.400
<v Speaker 1>not just against Abbey, but yes against her family, and

719
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.719
<v Speaker 1>he did everything he could to keep her from attempting

720
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:48.280
<v Speaker 1>to escape. The charges against him were severe. In addition

721
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:52.199
<v Speaker 1>to his kidnapping charge in Carroll County, he was indicted

722
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:56.320
<v Speaker 1>on two hundred and five additional charges in Coos County,

723
00:39:56.559 --> 00:40:01.880
<v Speaker 1>including illegal firearm possession, assault, robbery, criminal threat, threatening, and

724
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:07.079
<v Speaker 1>illegal use of electronic restraining device. At first, Nate pled

725
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:11.679
<v Speaker 1>not guilty and his trial was set for June twenty sixteen,

726
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.440
<v Speaker 1>but in May of that year he changed his plea.

727
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:17.280
<v Speaker 1>He had a plea deal, and as part of it,

728
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:21.360
<v Speaker 1>he pled guilty to seven charges in exchange for a

729
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.800
<v Speaker 1>sentence of forty five to ninety years in state prison

730
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:31.360
<v Speaker 1>with mandatory participation in an offender treatment program. So during

731
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.480
<v Speaker 1>the hearing, Nate admitted to his crimes and even apologized

732
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:41.480
<v Speaker 1>to Abby. Her response was something no one expected. But

733
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:46.400
<v Speaker 1>it's something that I fully expect from a fucking badass.

734
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:52.079
<v Speaker 2>I I don't even know if I want to hear it.

735
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.559
<v Speaker 2>It's going to break us, I think.

736
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:58.039
<v Speaker 1>To quote Abby, she said to him, some people might

737
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.920
<v Speaker 1>call you a monster. I've always looked at you as human,

738
00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:04.639
<v Speaker 1>and I want you to know that even though life

739
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.119
<v Speaker 1>became a lot harder after that, I still forgive you.

740
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. Yeah wow, I just feel like, Okay, the

741
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.960
<v Speaker 2>whole time that she was in there, I don't know,

742
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.800
<v Speaker 2>she just like had this strength about her that is

743
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.239
<v Speaker 2>just so I don't like, impressive. And then she never

744
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.079
<v Speaker 2>really had a victim mentality even like when in that

745
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.880
<v Speaker 2>like she I don't know, people who go through like

746
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 2>far less sometimes have this like victim mentality that just

747
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.559
<v Speaker 2>like I don't know, disables them slightly, right, Yeah, and

748
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 2>she just like isn't doing that whatsoever. It's like it's

749
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:49.559
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe how strong she is. It's unreal.

750
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:51.679
<v Speaker 1>And to be fair, there's nothing wrong with having that

751
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:55.000
<v Speaker 1>victim mentality because like those people, they are fucking victims,

752
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:57.920
<v Speaker 1>and these people stripped humanity from them, right.

753
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, I'm thinking it's like some people that go

754
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.159
<v Speaker 2>through like nothing. There's just some people in this world

755
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:05.639
<v Speaker 2>that have victim mentality that they haven't really gone through shit,

756
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:06.199
<v Speaker 2>you know.

757
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.039
<v Speaker 1>What I mean, definitely, But she went through shit, and

758
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:09.480
<v Speaker 1>she went.

759
00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Through serious shit and she is like just strong as hell.

760
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:14.400
<v Speaker 2>It's unreal.

761
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, the biggest thing for me, because one thing we

762
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:21.519
<v Speaker 1>really like to do on this show we make jokes.

763
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.480
<v Speaker 1>We try and humanize ourselves, but we also try and

764
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:28.960
<v Speaker 1>humanize these perpetrators. You know, we joke about them, we

765
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.039
<v Speaker 1>call them names, we laughed them. I hope they rot

766
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.079
<v Speaker 1>whatever you piece of shit sort of thing, that sort

767
00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:35.599
<v Speaker 1>of stuff. We do that on purpose because we don't

768
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.920
<v Speaker 1>want to give them the power that they think that

769
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.639
<v Speaker 1>they have. We try to strip that away and humanize

770
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:46.519
<v Speaker 1>them and say you're just an asshole, Abby put it

771
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:49.039
<v Speaker 1>into fucking phenomenal words. And I think this is the

772
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:52.639
<v Speaker 1>first time I've heard a victim do it this way.

773
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Some people might call you a monster, but I've always

774
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.559
<v Speaker 1>looked at you as human, like holy yeah fuck.

775
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:05.599
<v Speaker 2>And that just forgives him, which is just I mean,

776
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:09.519
<v Speaker 2>like she didn't she doesn't have to forgive him. But

777
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.320
<v Speaker 2>in the long run it's probably gonna it will probably

778
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.519
<v Speaker 2>help her healings. Like like, I'm assuming a little bit right, Yeah,

779
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 2>I've never been through anything like tat brutal, So holy shit,

780
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like flabbergasted with her, I know.

781
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:26.400
<v Speaker 1>So today Abby keeps a low profile, she remains close

782
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:28.760
<v Speaker 1>with her family, and she built a new life for herself.

783
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.440
<v Speaker 1>She now works as a hairdresser and is a mother.

784
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Though the past will always be part of her, she

785
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.840
<v Speaker 1>refuses to let it define her, moving forward with strength,

786
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.760
<v Speaker 1>resilience and always trying to take in the little things

787
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:43.599
<v Speaker 1>in life, you know, look up at the sky, enjoy

788
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:48.039
<v Speaker 1>the sun, those little things. And that is the story

789
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:49.880
<v Speaker 1>of Abbigail Hernandez.

790
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, Wow, I do just need to clarify, like

791
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:57.639
<v Speaker 2>she is a victim. That's not what I was like

792
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:00.599
<v Speaker 2>meaning earlier with the victim. Oh no, I kind of

793
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.920
<v Speaker 2>thing like, yeah, she totally is a victim here. But

794
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.119
<v Speaker 2>I just I just can't believe the strength that she

795
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.079
<v Speaker 2>has and then two for her to later go and

796
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 2>have like kids and stuff, because I feel like there's

797
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.760
<v Speaker 2>just be so much fear too. There could be so

798
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.880
<v Speaker 2>much fear. I think having kids itself is scary as hell,

799
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.320
<v Speaker 2>and then having been through something like that, knowing like

800
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.360
<v Speaker 2>what you know really really could happen, and then to

801
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.880
<v Speaker 2>still have kids and like live the life you wanted and.

802
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 1>Shit, like, wow, right, I wasn't saying you weren't saying

803
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 1>she was a victim. I'm saying what I thought you

804
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.280
<v Speaker 1>were going for was people who go through this, they

805
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:43.239
<v Speaker 1>let that victim mentality defeat them, like, not even let

806
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.920
<v Speaker 1>it defeat them, but like because they are a victim,

807
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.400
<v Speaker 1>they have every right to be afraid, and like it's scary. Shit.

808
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.559
<v Speaker 1>She is looking all of that in the face and

809
00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:58.119
<v Speaker 1>basically saying fuck you, yeah, which is incredible.

810
00:44:58.480 --> 00:44:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is incredible.

811
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

812
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:04.719
<v Speaker 2>She I think she is just like the badass day

813
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:05.559
<v Speaker 2>of the century.

814
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:08.400
<v Speaker 1>And she was a teenager.

815
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Not only was she fourteen at the time, yeah.

816
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:14.599
<v Speaker 1>Fourteen when she was abducted, fifteen when she was finally

817
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.239
<v Speaker 1>released home, and I believe she would have been sixteen

818
00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>or seventeen, probably seventeen during the trial and everything. So yeah,

819
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.079
<v Speaker 1>to be abducted at fourteen, released at fifteen, and forgive

820
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:28.880
<v Speaker 1>by seventeen.

821
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow yeah wow, Yeah. I just you know how when

822
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:37.400
<v Speaker 2>you tell something to be quiet with like the finger

823
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.599
<v Speaker 2>over your mouth, like I just did that to the dog.

824
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.719
<v Speaker 2>They would fucking know what the hell that meant. Oh

825
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, we just did that to Ripley. They It's

826
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.280
<v Speaker 2>so weird how they've just gathered when we're kind of

827
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.840
<v Speaker 2>wrapping up her podcast and they just get up. They know,

828
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:53.599
<v Speaker 2>they know crazy.

829
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Actually, but yeah, no, I just had a dog drip

830
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:57.760
<v Speaker 1>water all over my foot from the water bowl. So

831
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:04.199
<v Speaker 1>that's phenomenal. I'm not even socks right now, so yay. Gross. Anyways,

832
00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:06.519
<v Speaker 1>thank you for being here. All our links are in

833
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:08.920
<v Speaker 1>the description of this podcast. You know the story. We

834
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.400
<v Speaker 1>have Patreon, Instagram, Facebook, you name it, it's all there. We

835
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:16.280
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you being here. It really supports us. And I

836
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.360
<v Speaker 1>know tomorrow this isn't going to matter, but I still

837
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:23.320
<v Speaker 1>feel bad that our last episode didn't upload properly, so

838
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:24.480
<v Speaker 1>our apologies on that.

839
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was shitty, but that was.

840
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.679
<v Speaker 1>It happens once in a while, but I mean that's

841
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 1>the first time that's happened. But technical difficulties happen occasionally.

842
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:35.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's going to happen, so.

843
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.679
<v Speaker 1>It's hopefully it doesn't happen again.

844
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Things happen also, it's very cool that you kind of

845
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:43.519
<v Speaker 2>have like two episodes in a day here, so that's

846
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>like you kind of binge without realizing you got to

847
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:48.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of binge as long.

848
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 1>As you got through the withdrawal.

849
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, okay, well until the next episode, Stay Wicked.