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<v Speaker 1>This episode maintained content of a graphic nature, including descriptions

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<v Speaker 1>of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.

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<v Speaker 1>Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi. I'm Shannon. Hi I'm Tanya, and we are Crimes

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<v Speaker 2>and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya.

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<v Speaker 2>How you doing.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing pretty good for this day after our long

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<v Speaker 3>holiday weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and it's hard. I'm not going to complain. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just going to state that it's hard to know what

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<v Speaker 2>day it is with a two week old. And I

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<v Speaker 2>say that with much glee, even though you don't hear

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<v Speaker 2>it in my voice because of how extremely tired I am.

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<v Speaker 2>But yes, it was a nice holiday. This weather was great.

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<v Speaker 2>What did you guys do? Did you barbecue? What'd you do? Cute?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, we spend some time outside barrens just I spent

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of time outside because the weather was so beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, you have to when it's like that. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>we've been waiting. We've been waiting since gosh what September

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<v Speaker 2>for these nice sunny days to come back. So I

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<v Speaker 2>am here.

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<v Speaker 3>For it, like mild times, beautiful sun. So yeah, it

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<v Speaker 3>was a little hard getting up this morning. And people

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<v Speaker 3>were crazy today at my job. No, not driving, but

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<v Speaker 3>like people sending in complaints and whatever, and like people

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<v Speaker 3>be wild and out there. I don't know, like you

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<v Speaker 3>think it was a full moon. That's how crazy it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just the weather. It's something people. It takes so

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<v Speaker 2>little nowadays you think it was the moon. But now, jeez,

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<v Speaker 2>what time is it? Did the wind blow?

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<v Speaker 3>I was a little tired tape. By ten thirty, I

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<v Speaker 3>was done. I'm like, I am done with these people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like to take some personal time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, bring my coffee creamer because I ran out. I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't bring my.

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<v Speaker 4>Resale and I was like, oh my god, I need caffeine.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't get your post to my assistant and like

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<v Speaker 4>she's working from home today and she's like, I have

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<v Speaker 4>some in the fridge in my under my desk, And

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<v Speaker 4>I was like, oh God, bless you.

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<v Speaker 3>I was able to have a cup of coffee this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's nice. So what do you bring into the

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<v Speaker 2>table this week for us?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? I have a crazy ass story. Do you know

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<v Speaker 3>who Frank Lloyd Wright is?

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<v Speaker 2>The name is familiar. Is he an architect?

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<v Speaker 3>He's an architect and he used to design homes and

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<v Speaker 3>he had like a movement and everything. Yeah, this center's

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<v Speaker 3>around him. So before I get into it, just would

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<v Speaker 3>like to remind everyone to hit subscribe or follow on

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<v Speaker 3>whatever app you're listening to. And as I mentioned Frank

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<v Speaker 3>Lloyd Wright, he was a pioneer of what came to

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<v Speaker 3>be known as the Prairie School movement of architecture. This

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<v Speaker 3>model of home was to have one or two stories,

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<v Speaker 3>an open floor plan, low pitched roofs, strong horizontal lines,

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<v Speaker 3>ribbons of windows, and integration into the surrounding landscape with

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<v Speaker 3>the use of natural materials. The first iteration that he

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<v Speaker 3>did was a home that he called Talleison one and

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<v Speaker 3>that was his personal home and studio and it was

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<v Speaker 3>located in spring Green, Wisconsin. It was built to epitomize

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<v Speaker 3>the characteristics of the Prairie School home in his own vision,

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<v Speaker 3>and he built his home. He ended up sharing it

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<v Speaker 3>with his mistress, Ms. Mayma Bouton Bothwick, and it was

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<v Speaker 3>a one story, thirty seven thousand square feet wow. It

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<v Speaker 3>was an L shaped complex and it was made of

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<v Speaker 3>partially detached structures. The sprawling estate included a residential wing,

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<v Speaker 3>an agricultural wing, and an office wing. And it had

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<v Speaker 3>a courtyard, stables, servants quarters, and a garage on the

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<v Speaker 3>thirty one acres.

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<v Speaker 2>It was built on Tanya. That sounds a place where

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<v Speaker 2>I want to live.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, thirty seven thousand square feet with a fucking stable

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<v Speaker 3>and servants quarters and.

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<v Speaker 2>Duns, and I make a movie room, geology room.

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<v Speaker 4>This I know.

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<v Speaker 3>So, as I mentioned Mayma, she is Frank Lloyd Wright's

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<v Speaker 3>mistress at the time of the story. And our story

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<v Speaker 3>takes place on Saturday, August fifteenth, nineteen fourteen. And on

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<v Speaker 3>that day, Mama sat down on the terrace just outside

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<v Speaker 3>the family dining room of the Talleison estate with her children,

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<v Speaker 3>twelve year old John and eight year old Martha. And

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<v Speaker 3>these are not Frank Lloyd Wright's children, Maima and that's

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<v Speaker 3>her nickname. I believe her name was Martha as well.

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<v Speaker 3>But Mayma was married prior to having this affair with

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<v Speaker 3>Frank Lloyd Wright, and Frank Lloyd Wright was also married.

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<v Speaker 2>FYI.

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<v Speaker 3>So she's out on the terrace of the Teleisin estate

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<v Speaker 3>with her kids, and there were servants on the property.

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<v Speaker 3>There was Julian Carlton and his wife Gertrude, and Gertrude

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<v Speaker 3>was the cook she had prepared the soup that Julian

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<v Speaker 3>would be serving for lunch that day. Laborers and draftsmen

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<v Speaker 3>working for Frank Lloyd Wright were also on the property

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<v Speaker 3>waiting for Julian to bring their lunch into the workmen's

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<v Speaker 3>dining room, which was about eighty feet from the terrace

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<v Speaker 3>where Mayma was and was being served. So they're like

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<v Speaker 3>in a different wing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Gertrude finished up the food preparation and handed the soup

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<v Speaker 3>she'd made off to Julian, who walked up to the

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<v Speaker 3>terrace to serve the family first. After ladling the soup

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<v Speaker 3>into the bowls, the family began to eat. Julian was

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<v Speaker 3>standing off to the side of Mama in his white jacket,

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<v Speaker 3>where he produced a hatchet. And this is where the terror.

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<v Speaker 3>My gosh, yeah, Mama took the first hit. The hatchet

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<v Speaker 3>hit her with such rage and intensity that her head

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<v Speaker 3>nearly split in two as she fell forward onto the

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<v Speaker 3>table and slunk to the floor. Julian had already taken

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<v Speaker 3>the weapons to young John, who was killed with a

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<v Speaker 3>quick blow to his forehead. Little Martha, eight years old,

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<v Speaker 3>having witnessed the end of her mother and her brother,

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<v Speaker 3>ran through the dining room and entryway and out into

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<v Speaker 3>the driveway, where Juliane caught up with her. He would

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<v Speaker 3>beat her as if with a hammer, repeatedly in the head,

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<v Speaker 3>like with this axe this hatchet. When she collapsed, her

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<v Speaker 3>attacker would assume that she was dead, but unfortunately for her,

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<v Speaker 3>she was not. Around this time, Gertrude, Julian's wife, who

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<v Speaker 3>had heard the commotion of what was happening, began to

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<v Speaker 3>work on an escape. After she gathered her things, she

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<v Speaker 3>began to look for an exit, initially trying a basement door,

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<v Speaker 3>but she couldn't get it to budge. Eventually, she dove

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<v Speaker 3>through a window and began to run. The men waiting

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<v Speaker 3>to be served in the workmen's dining room had no

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<v Speaker 3>idea what was taking place. So they're sitting around a table,

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<v Speaker 3>and like I said, this is a separate wing, so

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<v Speaker 3>they don't know what's going on. So they're sitting around

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<v Speaker 3>a table discussing the work of the day, and Julian

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<v Speaker 3>walks into the dining room to dish out the soup.

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<v Speaker 3>Once he was done ladling the soup into their bulls,

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<v Speaker 3>he walked out of the door and he bolted the

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<v Speaker 3>outside locks to prevent the man from escaping, so he

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<v Speaker 3>leaves the room and he bolts the doors. Then he

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<v Speaker 3>pulled a pipe out of his pocket and he lit it,

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<v Speaker 3>taking a few puffs, after which he bent down and

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<v Speaker 3>picked up the cans of gasoline that he had gathered

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<v Speaker 3>that morning, and he began pouring the liquid out onto

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<v Speaker 3>the floor, where it silently flowed into the workmen's dining room.

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<v Speaker 3>Herbert Fritz, a young twenty something draftsman from Chicago, saw

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<v Speaker 3>the steam flow toward the table, thinking the servants must

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<v Speaker 3>have spilled, you know, maybe his mop bucket. And it

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't until he recognized the smell of gasoline that he

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<v Speaker 3>opened his mouth to begin to warn the others. But

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<v Speaker 3>in that same moment, Julian dropped the match used to

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<v Speaker 3>lightest pipe, and the room the men were in just

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<v Speaker 3>burst into flames at once. The men rose to their feet,

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<v Speaker 3>howling and flailing their arms trying to exit. They threw

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<v Speaker 3>themselves against the door that Julian had bolted shut. As

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<v Speaker 3>their struggle continued. The one who caused all the happenings

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<v Speaker 3>that afternoon was waiting just outside with.

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<v Speaker 2>The hatchet in hand.

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<v Speaker 3>For the sixth he had trapped to break down the

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<v Speaker 3>door and come running to escape somehow Herbert's he gathered

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<v Speaker 3>the presence of mind to remember that there was a

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<v Speaker 3>creek just down the hill from where Julian had locked

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<v Speaker 3>him in. He threw his body against one low window

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<v Speaker 3>and fell a story and a half, breaking his arm

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<v Speaker 3>before he rolled down a steep, rocky incline attempting to

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<v Speaker 3>reach the water. Julian spotted Herbert rolling down the hill

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<v Speaker 3>on the other side of the house, tipping his gaze

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<v Speaker 3>to the lower south window Herbert had broken through. There,

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<v Speaker 3>Julian spotted a mill Brodell, attempting to make the same exit.

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<v Speaker 3>Of all the people in the home at the time,

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<v Speaker 3>a mill wasn't going to be able to dodge the

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<v Speaker 3>fate that Julian had created for all of them. Driven

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<v Speaker 3>to seal a mill's doom, Julian bolted from his watch

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<v Speaker 3>over the door and ran to the ground below to

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<v Speaker 3>the broken window. He reached it just as Brodell squeezed through,

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<v Speaker 3>and he swung the hatchet, catching his victim at the

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<v Speaker 3>hairline just above his left ear, slicing through his brain.

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<v Speaker 3>Herbert Fritz had paused making his way down to the

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<v Speaker 3>creek just in time to witness this entire grizzly scene.

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<v Speaker 3>Then he watched Julian run back to his place monitoring

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<v Speaker 3>the door of the workmen's dining room. Fritz's clothes were

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<v Speaker 3>no longer on fire, but he was thoroughly burned and

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<v Speaker 3>had his broken arm. He decided to begin hiking back

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<v Speaker 3>up to tally Icon. The killer reached the door that

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<v Speaker 3>he'd been guarding just as the other men he trapped

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<v Speaker 3>began to break through. He was there in time, but

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<v Speaker 3>he'd been put off by the temporary lapse and his plan.

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<v Speaker 3>By the time carpenter Billy Weston broke through the doors,

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<v Speaker 3>the rattled Julian hit him in the head twice with

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<v Speaker 3>the blunt end of the hatchet instead of its blade.

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<v Speaker 3>Then came Tom Brunker, who received a glancing blow but

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<v Speaker 3>was able to avoid serious injury from the weapon as well,

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<v Speaker 3>and he began running. Billy Weston's young son, Ernest, followed,

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<v Speaker 3>and Julian by then had regained his bearings. He hit

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<v Speaker 3>the boy right on the head, leading him to stagger away,

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<v Speaker 3>collapsing in the fountain, where his charred remains stayed. Last

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<v Speaker 3>came David Lindblom, who was savagely burned and fell upon

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<v Speaker 3>being struck on the back of the head. Only after

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<v Speaker 3>all the workers were out of the room did Julian

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<v Speaker 3>begin chasing down Tom Brunker, who he was able to

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<v Speaker 3>hit with such a thump that his skull opened and

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<v Speaker 3>his brains protruded through the gap. By this time, Herbert

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<v Speaker 3>Fritz had reached Tellyson after his clon and he hobbled

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<v Speaker 3>his burned body around the corner in time to witness

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<v Speaker 3>Tom Bunker's demise at Julian's hands. After all the exertion

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<v Speaker 3>and shot, he fainted among the bodies, poor Herbert.

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<v Speaker 2>No kidding.

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<v Speaker 3>Seeing no one left standing, Julian grabbed the gasoline and

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<v Speaker 3>began dousing Mama and her son John with the liquid

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<v Speaker 3>before they burst into flames. Young Martha, still alive, caught

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<v Speaker 3>fire due to the burning bodies inflaming gasoline around her.

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<v Speaker 3>She would not survive to the next day, found with

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<v Speaker 3>three hatchet wounds to the back of her head, one

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<v Speaker 3>of which had gone completely through her skull. A fourth

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<v Speaker 3>hatchet wound got her in the face, just under her

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<v Speaker 3>right eye. In the end, seven of the nine victims

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<v Speaker 3>who had been at the estate that day would die

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<v Speaker 3>the survivors would be Herbert Fritz and Billy Weston. The

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<v Speaker 3>estate that Lloyd Wright had imagined for his beloved mistress

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<v Speaker 3>sat on a hill in the Helena Valley that day

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<v Speaker 3>in nineteen fourteen. Anyone looking in the direction of that

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<v Speaker 3>hell would have seen smoke billowing from where Talley Ison sat.

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<v Speaker 3>The smoke is what brought farm hand Jack Ferris onto

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<v Speaker 3>the scene. Julian, taking stock of his surroundings and seeing

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<v Speaker 3>that residents were curious and would come to check it out,

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<v Speaker 3>decided it wasn't a good idea for a black man

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<v Speaker 3>to be found living among all the dead white people.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>He dug in his pocket for a vial of a

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<v Speaker 3>said and he went to see got a place to hide,

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<v Speaker 3>hatchet in hand. Twenty five years before the death of

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<v Speaker 3>Mama Borthwick, Frank Lloyd Wright had met and married a tall,

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<v Speaker 3>suitably virginal redhead named Catherine Kitty Lee Tobin, with both

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<v Speaker 3>families unsure of the union. Kitty was shipped off to

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<v Speaker 3>northern Michigan for several months, and Frank's mother actively was

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<v Speaker 3>attempting to sabotage the nuptials. Frank had always been banned

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<v Speaker 3>with money taking that trait from his father, and Kitty

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<v Speaker 3>was moneyed and sat a bit higher on the social

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<v Speaker 3>spectrum than the struggling architect that was wooing her. The

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<v Speaker 3>two were married on June first, eighteen eighty nine, and

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<v Speaker 3>Frank was twenty two and Catherine was barely eighteen. Catherine's

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<v Speaker 3>father cried through the entire ceremony and Frank's mother, Anne fainted.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of reactions.

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<v Speaker 3>Nuptials, right, it's supposed to be a happy day, so happy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>Over the course of their marriage, Anna, Frank's mother, would

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<v Speaker 3>continue to be adversarial toward her son's wife, and he

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<v Speaker 3>did little to nothing to stop this treatment of poor Kitty. Ever,

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<v Speaker 3>the dutiful daughter in law, she took the abuse with

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<v Speaker 3>remarkable competence. It's been said between the years of eighteen

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<v Speaker 3>ninety to nineteen oh five the couple was relatively happy

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<v Speaker 3>outside of Anna's torment, and Kitty gave birth to Frank's

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<v Speaker 3>six children, and there were some rumored infidelities. Frank seemed

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<v Speaker 3>to be an active and happy parent, his son John

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<v Speaker 3>saying quote, there were parties somewhere all of the time

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00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.519
<v Speaker 3>and everywhere some of the time. It was just fun

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<v Speaker 3>to have him about end, but there seems to have

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<v Speaker 3>been a shift in his attitude toward domesticity and family life.

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<v Speaker 3>Around nineteen oh five, Frank began feeling his home life

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<v Speaker 3>was frustratingly restrictive and Kitty, having become a mature woman

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<v Speaker 3>and mother, was no longer the girl he married. She

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00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.600
<v Speaker 3>had been taken over by raising children, attending social clubs,

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<v Speaker 3>and other aspects of family life. He felt she had

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00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:37.039
<v Speaker 3>deteriorated intellectually simply being content with her successful husband, healthy children,

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<v Speaker 3>and beautiful home.

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<v Speaker 2>What a dick. And I was gonna say, don't blame her,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to make her sound like she's dumb down? Are

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00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.759
<v Speaker 2>you kidding me? You just want some new tale. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so don't put it on her.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't put it on her. But you know so, I'm

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00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:57.279
<v Speaker 3>guessing he's restless, right, sure. So It's believed that Frank

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<v Speaker 3>met mister and missus Edwin Cheney, who was Maema Borthwick's

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<v Speaker 3>married name, Cheni Okay, through Kitty's membership in the Oak

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<v Speaker 3>Park's nineteenth century women's club, having been mentioned together within

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<v Speaker 3>the social pages of the town newspaper. Mayma who was

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<v Speaker 3>born in Iowa in eighteen sixty nine, moved to Oak

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<v Speaker 3>Park when her father, who was a machinist for the railroads,

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<v Speaker 3>was promoted to superintendent of the repair department. She would

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<v Speaker 3>attend the University of Michigan, where she would meet her

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<v Speaker 3>future husband, Edwin Cheney. He was majoring in electrical engineering

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00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.080
<v Speaker 3>while she took classes and languages in literature. Edwin would

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<v Speaker 3>pursue her tirelessly for nearly a decade while she continued

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<v Speaker 3>her education, receiving a master's degree in teaching. She would

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<v Speaker 3>become a librarian in Port Huron, Michigan for five years.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Port Huron's gorgeous. Sorry off, Lake Huron. Yeah, Lake

278
00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:59.279
<v Speaker 3>Huron is gorgeous. It wasn't until she was approaching her

279
00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.039
<v Speaker 3>thirtieth birthday around the time of her mother's death, that

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00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.759
<v Speaker 3>she conceded to marrying mister Cheney. After the birth of

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00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.279
<v Speaker 3>their son John in nineteen oh two, the couple decided

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<v Speaker 3>it was time to build a house. They commissioned Frank

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00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.639
<v Speaker 3>Lloyd Wright to build the family home for the family

284
00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.000
<v Speaker 3>unit he was about to destroy.

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he was what.

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00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.759
<v Speaker 3>The assumed timeline for the development of their relationship begins

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00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.480
<v Speaker 3>around the time that he was commissioned for the Cheney

288
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.440
<v Speaker 3>family Home Park were attempting to dissuade the man from

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00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:33.279
<v Speaker 3>continuing to persist in his disastrous relationship with Missus Cheney.

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00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Mima did give birth to her daughter by Edwin, named Martha,

291
00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.759
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen oh six. However, by nineteen oh nine, both

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00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.679
<v Speaker 3>Frank and Mema were asking their respective spouses for divorce.

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00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.360
<v Speaker 3>For Edwin, although his pursuit of Mama was long and

294
00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:54.000
<v Speaker 3>hard one, he didn't seem the least bit ruffled. Described

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00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.320
<v Speaker 3>as charming and gracious by his neighbors, he was not

296
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.240
<v Speaker 3>ever known to have an enemy or even who have

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00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:04.079
<v Speaker 3>raised his voice. On the other hand, Kitty was shocked.

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<v Speaker 3>Not one to give up her marriage without attempting to

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00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.160
<v Speaker 3>save it, she told Frank she would like one year

300
00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.759
<v Speaker 3>of grace, and if he still desired the divorce, she

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00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.599
<v Speaker 3>would grant it to him. She was confident that he

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00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:21.640
<v Speaker 3>would return and that they would reconcile. Ellen Key Kay,

303
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:24.839
<v Speaker 3>she was known by Kate, was a Swedish writer and

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00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.759
<v Speaker 3>feminist of the era during the time of Wright's struggle

305
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.359
<v Speaker 3>with deserting his family. Her writings were the ones Mamma

306
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:37.079
<v Speaker 3>was tesked with translating in her ideas. Frank found comfort

307
00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.839
<v Speaker 3>in his choices if not expressed permission to abandon his

308
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.079
<v Speaker 3>wife and children. He believed his desertion of his family

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00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.519
<v Speaker 3>showed the pursuit of loftier goals, including devotion to his

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00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.759
<v Speaker 3>ethical principles, which I find to.

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00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Be a sorry early ethical principles and desertion of family.

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00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Never thought I'd hear those two things as yeah, because

313
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:01.480
<v Speaker 2>that's some bullshit.

314
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:06.000
<v Speaker 3>Frank, thank you. So Kay supported this belief, stating quote,

315
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.759
<v Speaker 3>marriage not mutual is worse than slavery end quote, and

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00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.400
<v Speaker 3>described it as barbaric. With these thoughts in mind, in

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00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.680
<v Speaker 3>nineteen oh nine, Frank was offered an opportunity to go

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00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.480
<v Speaker 3>to Berlin. This trip would allow a German born Harvard

319
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.839
<v Speaker 3>professor to oversee the publishing of a portfolio of Frank

320
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Lloyd Wright's collected work. With the excitement of this opportunity,

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00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.039
<v Speaker 3>he sent his draftsman to prepare for the trip and

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00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.519
<v Speaker 3>visited Mama to tell her all about it. Later that year,

323
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.079
<v Speaker 3>Mama took her children to Boulder, Colorado, to quote unquote

324
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.319
<v Speaker 3>visit a pregnant friend. While there, she eventually messaged Edwin

325
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.359
<v Speaker 3>to come pick the children up, and by the time

326
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:52.160
<v Speaker 3>he arrived Mama was gone. Shortly thereafter, Frank Lloyd Wright

327
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.039
<v Speaker 3>hurriedly sold his architectural firm, practically giving it away to

328
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.880
<v Speaker 3>an architect with a vastly different style who worked mostly

329
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:05.920
<v Speaker 3>on conventional church buildings rather than Frank's prairie style residential homes.

330
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Soon after, he said goodbye to Kitty and his kids,

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<v Speaker 3>telling his thirteen year old son David, who was the

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00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.440
<v Speaker 3>third of his six kids, that he was now man

333
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.000
<v Speaker 3>of the house and leaving him with a nine hundred

334
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:22.400
<v Speaker 3>dollars grocery bill. About yeah. About seventy years later, David

335
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.680
<v Speaker 3>was interviewed and questioned about it, still appearing to be

336
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.279
<v Speaker 3>vexed about the whole situation in which his father had

337
00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.680
<v Speaker 3>left him. After Frank had thoroughly cut his ties, he

338
00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:33.599
<v Speaker 3>boarded a train to New York to meet up with

339
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Mama and set sail for Europe. They're going to go

340
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:41.039
<v Speaker 3>gallivanting off to Berlin. When they first reached Europe, Mamma

341
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.839
<v Speaker 3>took a job as a teacher and rented an apartment

342
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.359
<v Speaker 3>in Berlin while Frank went to Florence to work on

343
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.279
<v Speaker 3>his portfolio. When he needed to stay in Berlin, he

344
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.359
<v Speaker 3>would stay at mama's apartment with her. When the exhibition

345
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.880
<v Speaker 3>was completed, he brought her to Florence, where he seemed

346
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.799
<v Speaker 3>utterly content. It was here that he saw Villa Medici,

347
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:06.400
<v Speaker 3>the inspiration upon which he would design Talley Iison. However,

348
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.839
<v Speaker 3>within the year nineteen ten, mister Wright was back in

349
00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Oak Park with Kitty with his wife. He had written

350
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.640
<v Speaker 3>his wife and given her the conditions upon which he

351
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.680
<v Speaker 3>would return, the most substantial of which being that they

352
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:24.759
<v Speaker 3>would no longer share normal marital relations, but they would

353
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.599
<v Speaker 3>put up a front for the kids. In return, he

354
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.200
<v Speaker 3>would give up Mama, though he couldn't stop loving her,

355
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:33.920
<v Speaker 3>But he told Kitty that he was afraid if he

356
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.680
<v Speaker 3>stayed in Italy with her, he would start to hate her.

357
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<v Speaker 3>So I'm not sure that what went down.

358
00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I would like to point out real quick because I

359
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.079
<v Speaker 2>did look up his birthday. Frank was a Gemini. Okay,

360
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that speaks fucking volumes on this flip flop, flip flop.

361
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I bet this, I want this, I want this. No,

362
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't want this, So.

363
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.359
<v Speaker 3>I put it out God, bless our, why.

364
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Please absolutely, I am married to Yeah, my best friend

365
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.960
<v Speaker 2>in high school was a Gemini, which was her husband.

366
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<v Speaker 3>That's how I met she, so I took his friend

367
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.920
<v Speaker 3>away from him.

368
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:12.839
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

369
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.759
<v Speaker 3>Oh that makes a lot of sense, totally, And I

370
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:19.480
<v Speaker 3>love you geminis. Some of the life have been geminized absolutely,

371
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<v Speaker 3>ever the dutiful son. After sending out his letter to

372
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.160
<v Speaker 3>his wife, he also sent a letter to his mother

373
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<v Speaker 3>with a copy of what he sent to Kitty. So

374
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.759
<v Speaker 3>Frank not only wrote his wife, he tells his mom

375
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.119
<v Speaker 3>what he told her. In his correspondence with Anna, he

376
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.160
<v Speaker 3>defended his actions, telling her that his behavior should be

377
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.599
<v Speaker 3>excused because his family hadn't given him quote emotional support

378
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<v Speaker 3>in his time of need.

379
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.839
<v Speaker 2>And oh no, that sounds Oh I can't be mean,

380
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm not Can I even say anything? It sounds like

381
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>sounds like some Gemini male bullshit.

382
00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.119
<v Speaker 3>After sending the letters, he took Mama to Paris and

383
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.319
<v Speaker 3>left her there before he boarded the next ship sailing

384
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.920
<v Speaker 3>back to the US. Upon his return, Kitty, feeling reasonably

385
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:12.279
<v Speaker 3>sorry for herself, wrote a friend saying, womankind seems to

386
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:16.359
<v Speaker 3>be so moveable, a feast easily sold and easily bought,

387
00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:20.519
<v Speaker 3>and passed around and tossed away, and no mercy except

388
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:26.480
<v Speaker 3>from outsiders end quote preach, yes, yeah, girl oak Park

389
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.319
<v Speaker 3>was alarmed when Frank arrived on October eighth, nineteen ten.

390
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.680
<v Speaker 3>Frank was equally alarmed by the town's cold reception. Women

391
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.400
<v Speaker 3>would turn away from him in the street. Former friends

392
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.279
<v Speaker 3>would cross the road to avoid walking past him. Ministers

393
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:46.119
<v Speaker 3>across town were preparing sermons educating on the sins of adultery,

394
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.920
<v Speaker 3>and he became a social outcast. In nineteen eleven, Frank

395
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.079
<v Speaker 3>approached his mother about a thirty one acre parcel of

396
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:58.039
<v Speaker 3>land in Helena Valley, Wisconsin. Knowing the plot of land

397
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:02.000
<v Speaker 3>had a hill similar to that which Villa Medici sat

398
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:05.559
<v Speaker 3>up han. He immediately got to work right after, mentioning

399
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:07.799
<v Speaker 3>to friends that he was thinking about building a small

400
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.200
<v Speaker 3>house for his mother there. So he did this all

401
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 3>under the guy's like, oh, this is a house for

402
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:13.519
<v Speaker 3>my mom.

403
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.920
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like his mother was a bit intrusive. Sounds

404
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.799
<v Speaker 2>like she was okay with really anything Frank did. Yeah, right, like,

405
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>which is not yeah, even though it's shitty decisions, very selfish. Yeah,

406
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:28.079
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you.

407
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:31.559
<v Speaker 3>In the meantime, Mama came back to oak Park, having

408
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.880
<v Speaker 3>been gone the requisite two years, to sue for divorce.

409
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:39.480
<v Speaker 3>After establishing desertion Mamma gave the custody of the children

410
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:43.079
<v Speaker 3>to Edwin. One of her finer qualities, according to Frank,

411
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.599
<v Speaker 3>was her quote relative indifference toward her son and daughter

412
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:47.519
<v Speaker 3>end quote.

413
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.400
<v Speaker 2>That's real nice. It is great parenting.

414
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, great parenting, mamma. So Mamma, in contrast to Kitty,

415
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:58.640
<v Speaker 3>had exchanged her children for pursuing the world of ideas, thoughts,

416
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:03.079
<v Speaker 3>and dreams. A choice, mister Wright, he greatly respected that.

417
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm sure I just looked her up. Another Gemini

418
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Olympics blind leading the blind. Here, MEM's a Gemini. He's

419
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 2>June ninth, I believe June eighth or ninth, and she's

420
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>June nineteenth. So pretty volatile. It makes sense. Yeah, everything's okay.

421
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.480
<v Speaker 2>You know they can and I know it seems aggressive,

422
00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:29.240
<v Speaker 2>but you love geminis. Yes, yes, you can call me

423
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.519
<v Speaker 2>a cry baby because I'm a cancer. Yes, and I cry.

424
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:38.759
<v Speaker 2>So there you go. You're so fucking emotional girl, always

425
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.640
<v Speaker 2>on the verge tears. But yes, okay, now back to Mayma. Yeah.

426
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.000
<v Speaker 3>When the work on Telly Iison began, the ruse was up.

427
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Frank had come home in nineteen ten under conditions to

428
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 3>his wife. He had bought a parcel of land to

429
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 3>build his mother a home on. Shortly after Mayma arrives

430
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.920
<v Speaker 3>in town, though asking for a divorce from when that

431
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.519
<v Speaker 3>was granted. When the construction on the estate had gotten

432
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.000
<v Speaker 3>far enough along, Frank took her on a tour of

433
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:10.519
<v Speaker 3>their home. She moved in as soon as she could,

434
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.519
<v Speaker 3>and Frank would join her there permanently in December nineteen eleven.

435
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Telly Son was a beautiful home, meant to house elegant residents,

436
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.279
<v Speaker 3>and yet the people of the town saw merely a

437
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.839
<v Speaker 3>house where Frank and Mema were shacking up. The locals

438
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:28.440
<v Speaker 3>were openly hostile, and the room or mill moved at

439
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.079
<v Speaker 3>a furious pace. Kitty would be shaking with tears in

440
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.839
<v Speaker 3>her eyes as she denied the stories to the press,

441
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:36.799
<v Speaker 3>which poor Kitty.

442
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh humiliating at the time, I'm sure, oh my, But.

443
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.079
<v Speaker 3>For Frank's part, her husband would invite the Chicago Tribune

444
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.039
<v Speaker 3>to tally Icon shortly after moving in, feeling it was

445
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:50.799
<v Speaker 3>time to explain his side of the story. The reporter

446
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.640
<v Speaker 3>came and sat while Frank provided his report of the

447
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.559
<v Speaker 3>events leading to that day. After finishing his prepared statement,

448
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.759
<v Speaker 3>he was fully ready for the rest of the people

449
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.680
<v Speaker 3>in the town to see things his way. He blamed

450
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:06.680
<v Speaker 3>the marital struggles on his and Kitty's parents, saying the

451
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 3>two were much too young to marry. When they did,

452
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 3>he conveniently forgot that neither of the families supported them,

453
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.200
<v Speaker 3>you know, supported the marriage in way. He also explained

454
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.599
<v Speaker 3>that his abandon or to develop into their individual selves

455
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:23.839
<v Speaker 3>outside of the influence of his quote dominant personality unquote

456
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:30.799
<v Speaker 3>uh yeah, Gemini. Among all the words he shared that day,

457
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.519
<v Speaker 3>the biggest mistake he made was in this statement. He said,

458
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.599
<v Speaker 3>quote as for the general aspect of things, I want

459
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.640
<v Speaker 3>to say this, laws and rules are made for the average.

460
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:45.880
<v Speaker 3>The ordinary man cannot live without rules to guide his conduct.

461
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.440
<v Speaker 3>It is infinitely more difficult to live without rules. But

462
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.920
<v Speaker 3>that is what the really honest, sincere thinking man is

463
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:56.279
<v Speaker 3>compelled to do. And I think when a man has

464
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.559
<v Speaker 3>displayed some spiritual power has given concrete evident of his

465
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.559
<v Speaker 3>ability to see and to feel the higher and better

466
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.640
<v Speaker 3>things in life, we ought to go slow in deciding

467
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:15.000
<v Speaker 3>he has acted badly end quote wow, yeah, wow, fucking narcissist. Honestly,

468
00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:20.480
<v Speaker 3>I have to tell you, the Midwest did not look

469
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:22.799
<v Speaker 3>kindly on his elitism.

470
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, this house aude.

471
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 3>He's in the heartland of the United States, and he's

472
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.640
<v Speaker 3>going to be like, oh, I'm the exception.

473
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes it's again.

474
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:37.759
<v Speaker 3>It's you know, rules are for the pooh poo pooh, for.

475
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.519
<v Speaker 2>The ordinary and the average. Right you see, I'm not ordinary.

476
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Look at my work.

477
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm fucking fabulous and therefore the rules.

478
00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that sounds like a Leo rising.

479
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.440
<v Speaker 3>The bewildered and angry residents reached out to the sheriffs

480
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.559
<v Speaker 3>to evict the couple. When the sheriffs let the people

481
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.799
<v Speaker 3>know that he didn't have any charges that had been brought,

482
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.200
<v Speaker 3>nor any warrant filed, so he really had no legal

483
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.880
<v Speaker 3>authority to act. People of the town began to speak

484
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:10.359
<v Speaker 3>about vigilante justice.

485
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.160
<v Speaker 2>They're pissed about this. Whoa I know.

486
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.720
<v Speaker 3>Over time, with some humility in silence from Frank, the

487
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:22.000
<v Speaker 3>couple was able to settle into Teleisin with limited scandal,

488
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 3>allowing locals to adapt over the course of time. Although Kitty,

489
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.960
<v Speaker 3>who had promised Franka divorce during their discussions in nineteen

490
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.200
<v Speaker 3>oh nine after a year of grace, had never followed through,

491
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 3>the couple was still married all these years later.

492
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

493
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.279
<v Speaker 3>In the fall of nineteen thirteen, Frank was approached by

494
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 3>real estate developer Edward C. Waller Junior to build a

495
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 3>grand scale, open air urban resort like Beer Garden, open

496
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:53.119
<v Speaker 3>year round, with a sophisticated entertainment like orchestra and fine dining.

497
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:56.400
<v Speaker 3>The site was chosen, they merely needed an architect to

498
00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:59.880
<v Speaker 3>make it unique. After reaching an agreement on cost and timeline,

499
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.559
<v Speaker 3>the project began. But even though the Midway Garden project

500
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:06.799
<v Speaker 3>was agreed to be completed on May first, nineteen fourteen,

501
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 3>things still ran behind. Even after the gardens were open,

502
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:12.599
<v Speaker 3>Frank and his son John, who had gone into business

503
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 3>with his father, were still working on it in August,

504
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:18.880
<v Speaker 3>when Frank received the worst news of his life. Julian

505
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.599
<v Speaker 3>and Gertrude Carleton had come to work for Frank and

506
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.119
<v Speaker 3>Mama in mid June that year. It's unknown if the

507
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.680
<v Speaker 3>two originally came to the US from Barbados, Cuba, the

508
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.640
<v Speaker 3>West Indies, or anywhere of that sort, but they arrived

509
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:35.160
<v Speaker 3>in the area from Chicago, having been recommended by a

510
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:39.039
<v Speaker 3>restaurant tour known to Frank. The gentleman said that they

511
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:42.400
<v Speaker 3>had worked as house servants for his father and it

512
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.480
<v Speaker 3>had done a good job, but he didn't know much

513
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.359
<v Speaker 3>else about them. Time has not changed that fact. We

514
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.319
<v Speaker 3>still don't know much about them. It was known that

515
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:54.599
<v Speaker 3>Julian was about five eight, one hundred and forty five pounds,

516
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:58.039
<v Speaker 3>dark skin, thin lipped, and handsome in the average sense

517
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.279
<v Speaker 3>of the word. The couple said they had been married

518
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 3>about two years and they were both around thirty years

519
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 3>old when the offer to work at telly Ison came through,

520
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 3>for Gertrude to cook and for Julian to work as

521
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.240
<v Speaker 3>a butler and handyman. The couple boarded the first train

522
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 3>to spring Green. Within two weeks, Julian was ready to

523
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.559
<v Speaker 3>go back to Chicago. By late July, Billy Weston and

524
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.920
<v Speaker 3>David Lindblom were overheard at the tavern talking about Julian

525
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.000
<v Speaker 3>in an ominous and threatening way. Around that same time,

526
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 3>Julian told Gertrude he needed to go to Madison to

527
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.440
<v Speaker 3>see Adnis, but when she received a telegram on August first,

528
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.640
<v Speaker 3>he had gone to Chicago instead. When Julian returned, Martha

529
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 3>and John Cheeney had arrived to visit their mother. Edwin

530
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 3>had to go on a business trip, and Mehma accepted

531
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:50.279
<v Speaker 3>her children for periods over the summer. On Friday, August seventh,

532
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 3>Julian went into Spring Green to purchase a bottle of

533
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:58.599
<v Speaker 3>acid quote unquote for the farm stores at Tellison. On

534
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 3>August eleventh, Frank left for Chicago to work at Midway Gardens.

535
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 3>The following day, the confrontation between a mill Broadell and

536
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.599
<v Speaker 3>Julian took place. For a reason unknown to us, Julian

537
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:14.319
<v Speaker 3>had refused to saddle Brodel's horse. In anger, Brodell called

538
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 3>him a black son of a bitch. If Brodell had

539
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.920
<v Speaker 3>any chance of surviving the day of the attack, what

540
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:23.160
<v Speaker 3>he said to Julian that day solidifying his face, sure

541
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 3>for sure. On the morning of the attack, Julian approached

542
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.640
<v Speaker 3>Billy Weston to ask where Frank kept the gasoline. He

543
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.160
<v Speaker 3>said that there was a soiled rug and he needed

544
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.480
<v Speaker 3>gas to clean it, even though I've never heard of

545
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.960
<v Speaker 3>gas being used to clean anything, not ever.

546
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Not ever.

547
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 3>But apparently Billy Weston told him where the gas was,

548
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.319
<v Speaker 3>and around noon the attack began. Maema's children didn't enjoy

549
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.880
<v Speaker 3>being at tally Icon. The home was not constructed for

550
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.279
<v Speaker 3>the entertainment of children, so there was very little for

551
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 3>them to do. Being that they spent most time with

552
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:59.279
<v Speaker 3>their father. They didn't have many playmates in the area either. However,

553
00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:02.640
<v Speaker 3>when she arrived at the estate, Martha reached out to

554
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 3>a local girl, and that fateful day Edna Kritz had

555
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.920
<v Speaker 3>mounted her horse named Beauty to ride the three miles

556
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.839
<v Speaker 3>and invite John and Martha to watch the threshing at

557
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.119
<v Speaker 3>her farm, which is about as exciting as it sounds

558
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 3>from a real farm girl. From the road she was

559
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.519
<v Speaker 3>approaching telly Son from the little girl likely would have

560
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 3>been the first to hear the screams and see the

561
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:30.319
<v Speaker 3>horror unfold. She would reach telly Son around twelve forty five.

562
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:33.079
<v Speaker 3>In the aftermath of the attack, Billy Weston rose to

563
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:36.200
<v Speaker 3>his feet, surrounded with bodies, not the least of which

564
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 3>that of his young son Ernest. He roused David Lindblom

565
00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:43.839
<v Speaker 3>and the two ran to the best of their ability.

566
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 3>After having been hatcheted and burned alive, they ran to

567
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.880
<v Speaker 3>the Reader home, which was the closest place that they knew,

568
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.440
<v Speaker 3>with a phone to call for help. Resolutely, Billy Weston

569
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:58.319
<v Speaker 3>ran back to telly Son, with Lindblaum limping behind. Upon

570
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 3>reaching the estate, he grabbed the hose in the garden

571
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.680
<v Speaker 3>wall and he began to spray the flames. Within thirty minutes,

572
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.440
<v Speaker 3>the residential wing of the home had burned to the ground.

573
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.240
<v Speaker 3>All that was left was the workmen's wing, and Billy

574
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.799
<v Speaker 3>Weston saved that part. Soon locals began to arrive, farmers

575
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.079
<v Speaker 3>with their farm hands, wives and children, and the hundreds

576
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.519
<v Speaker 3>filled the road. A bucket mcgrade was established to continue

577
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:26.279
<v Speaker 3>working on the fire, but Posse's also formed to scour

578
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.519
<v Speaker 3>the fields for Julian and Carleton, and someone was going

579
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:33.160
<v Speaker 3>to have to call Frank. After about an hour after

580
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.839
<v Speaker 3>the fire started, a stenographer at Midway Gardens answered the

581
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.359
<v Speaker 3>phone and called Frank into the office to take the call.

582
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.640
<v Speaker 3>When he returned to his workstation next to his son John,

583
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.440
<v Speaker 3>the young man could tell something was wrong, hearing labor

584
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:50.319
<v Speaker 3>breathing and groaning. John asked what had happened, and Frank

585
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.599
<v Speaker 3>told him the only information that he had. Talley Son

586
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.200
<v Speaker 3>was on fire. Mayma, the children, the students, what if

587
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:57.759
<v Speaker 3>they're hurt?

588
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Why did I leave them? What? He was lamenting.

589
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:03.920
<v Speaker 3>John summoned a taxi to take them to the train

590
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.319
<v Speaker 3>station immediately. Once there, they learned that the next train

591
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.159
<v Speaker 3>headed to Spring Green would be a slow train whose

592
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.519
<v Speaker 3>route was meant to make several stops. That train wouldn't

593
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.639
<v Speaker 3>leave until early evening, and it would take hours to

594
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 3>get to where it was going. And then, as fate

595
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:21.840
<v Speaker 3>would have it, who would show up to the very

596
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.480
<v Speaker 3>same train station at the very same time, but Edwin

597
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:31.280
<v Speaker 3>Geneye's ex husband, My Frank approached him and shook his hand.

598
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.639
<v Speaker 3>During this exchange, there was a silent understanding reached. The

599
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:39.440
<v Speaker 3>train pulled in, Reporters began to approach, and John took

600
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:42.639
<v Speaker 3>it upon himself to shove both men into the same train.

601
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.440
<v Speaker 3>Card Edwin was silent the entire way to spring Green,

602
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.639
<v Speaker 3>while Frank was making his way home. Doctors had made

603
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.800
<v Speaker 3>it to talley Son to treat the injured. Sheets covered

604
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:55.559
<v Speaker 3>the victims that didn't make it. There would be no

605
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.719
<v Speaker 3>sheet for young John, who was burned so thoroughly there

606
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.800
<v Speaker 3>was really nothing but ash and bone. The boy wouldn't

607
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.639
<v Speaker 3>even be issued a death certificate. At five point thirty

608
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:09.719
<v Speaker 3>that evening, one of the searchers hurriedly ran to find

609
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.880
<v Speaker 3>the sheriff. The man had the thought to open the

610
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.639
<v Speaker 3>door to the furnace, and inside he found Julian Carlton

611
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.199
<v Speaker 3>by the time the sheriff returned, Julian had drank the

612
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.400
<v Speaker 3>vial of acid when it became clear that he was

613
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:26.920
<v Speaker 3>going to be captured. In pain and half conscious, the

614
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 3>man moaned as he was pulled from his hiding spot,

615
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:33.760
<v Speaker 3>still holding onto the hatchet. Seeing the hundreds of residents

616
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 3>noticed that the murderer had been found, and noting that

617
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:41.280
<v Speaker 3>they were likely looking to form a lynch, Moob Carlton stated, quote,

618
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.079
<v Speaker 3>they'd better let me live if they expect to find

619
00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:47.960
<v Speaker 3>out something end quote. The train bearing Frank, John and

620
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Edwin pulled in about ten ten pm. It had been

621
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 3>an unbearable trip. During the long train ride, at every stop,

622
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.039
<v Speaker 3>the men had heard unwanted news. Newsboys were shouting at

623
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:04.800
<v Speaker 3>every station, tally Icon burning to the ground, seven slain. Finally,

624
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 3>when they arrived, Frank made a short statement to the press.

625
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.079
<v Speaker 3>He said Julian and Gertrude were the best servants he

626
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:14.559
<v Speaker 3>had ever seen, and that the couple was only temporarily

627
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.280
<v Speaker 3>planning on working at telly Son. The day of the

628
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:19.880
<v Speaker 3>fire was to have been their last day. They were

629
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.280
<v Speaker 3>to pick up their wages that afternoon. That night, Staring

630
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:26.199
<v Speaker 3>blankly from the car, Frank approached the ruins of his

631
00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:30.599
<v Speaker 3>beloved Tally Icon. Quote thirty six hours earlier, I had

632
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:34.440
<v Speaker 3>left Tally Icon, leaving all living, friendly and happy. Now

633
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 3>the blow had fallen like a lightning stroke, violently swept

634
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 3>down and away in a madman's nightmare of flame and

635
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:45.480
<v Speaker 3>murder end quote. Edwin and Frank had a whispered conversation

636
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 3>about what to do regarding the disposition of the bodies.

637
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.440
<v Speaker 3>Edwin remarked that Mamma had said that if anything happened

638
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.280
<v Speaker 3>to the children, she would like to have them cremated

639
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 3>with unintended redundancy. Edwin stated he would take the remains

640
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.400
<v Speaker 3>and fulfill her wishes. The box he carried with the

641
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:07.400
<v Speaker 3>remains was painfully small, easily carried in one hand. He

642
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 3>would not hold a funeral for them. He made no

643
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:16.119
<v Speaker 3>remarks regarding intentions from Mema. That would be Frank's responsibility alone,

644
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.559
<v Speaker 3>to which he said he would bury her at Talley Icon.

645
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.920
<v Speaker 3>The two men shook hands, said their goodbyes respectfully, and

646
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Edwin drove away without a second glance. Julian Carleton only

647
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.039
<v Speaker 3>lived for seven and a half weeks after his arrest.

648
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.800
<v Speaker 3>He made three short court appearances before succumbing to starvation

649
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 3>on October seventh, at one in the afternoon. It is

650
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:41.679
<v Speaker 3>not thought that the drink of the acid affected his

651
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:46.039
<v Speaker 3>ability to eat, and this would be starvation by willpower alone.

652
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:49.280
<v Speaker 3>He weighed a scant ninety pounds at the end of

653
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.519
<v Speaker 3>his life. He never admitted to any particular motive for

654
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 3>the crime. However, the most likely possibility is simply that

655
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:59.559
<v Speaker 3>he was emotionally violatile. Maybe he had some sort.

656
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Of mentals break who you can't come with the this

657
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:09.519
<v Speaker 2>is why I did it? Yeah, right right, Chalk it

658
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.280
<v Speaker 2>up to mental mm hmm.

659
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.239
<v Speaker 3>Gertrude Carlton, Julian's wife had been found hiding in the

660
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 3>brush off the road to spring Green shortly after the attack.

661
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.039
<v Speaker 3>She was taken to the jail in town overnight and

662
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:25.760
<v Speaker 3>transferred to the Iowa County Jail in Dodgeville, Wisconsin. She

663
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:28.920
<v Speaker 3>was detained under suspicion for two weeks, where she had

664
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.760
<v Speaker 3>much to say about her husband. Before even leaving Chicago,

665
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:37.119
<v Speaker 3>his mental issues were evident, reported by African American neighbors

666
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:38.599
<v Speaker 3>as erratic and bizarre.

667
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.559
<v Speaker 2>He was a very nervous person.

668
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.599
<v Speaker 3>He would fly off the handle at the slightest provocation,

669
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:47.440
<v Speaker 3>and was constantly worried about money. Gertrude sought refuge with

670
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 3>a neighbor of their former employer. In any event where

671
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.920
<v Speaker 3>her husband began to terrify her, her neighbor relayed what

672
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 3>Gertrude had said, saying, quote, he would get these spells

673
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:01.199
<v Speaker 3>where he was wild eyed and dous, strange things.

674
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.239
<v Speaker 2>That she feared for her life. End quote.

675
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.239
<v Speaker 3>When the couple moved to tele Ison, he became even

676
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.639
<v Speaker 3>more unstable. Billy Weston and David Lindblaum were overheard at

677
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.440
<v Speaker 3>the tavern saying quote, he's polite and smart, but he's

678
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:17.519
<v Speaker 3>the most desperate, hot headed fellow I ever saw. Don't

679
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.559
<v Speaker 3>ever contradict him. He'll fly off the handle any minute.

680
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>End quote.

681
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:24.079
<v Speaker 3>When she was detained by the deputy, she told him

682
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 3>this quote. My husband had the notion that he.

683
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Was being pursued.

684
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.400
<v Speaker 3>He recently got to waking me up in the night

685
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:33.320
<v Speaker 3>at our quarters in the bungalow to listen for noises.

686
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.719
<v Speaker 3>They're trying to get me, he kept saying. Then sometimes

687
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.880
<v Speaker 3>he would choke me and threaten to knock my brains out.

688
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:40.800
<v Speaker 3>He took that hatchet to bed with him.

689
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:41.559
<v Speaker 2>End quote.

690
00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Wow, on the morning of Saturday, August twenty ninth, Gertrude

691
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.559
<v Speaker 3>was released outright. The deputies put her on a train

692
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:50.039
<v Speaker 3>headed for Chicago with seven dollars in her pocket, and

693
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:54.159
<v Speaker 3>she vanished from the historical record. Frank Lloyd Wright would

694
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.760
<v Speaker 3>go on to rebuild telly Ison. The next structure, dubbed

695
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:01.280
<v Speaker 3>tell Ison Too, would also burn down, this time due

696
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 3>to faulty wiring. Much as before. The residential wing was destroyed,

697
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.760
<v Speaker 3>but the working wing remained. Frank took it as a

698
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.440
<v Speaker 3>sign that he should try again. Tally Son three is

699
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:16.199
<v Speaker 3>the version still standing today, open to the public as

700
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:22.639
<v Speaker 3>a tourist attraction and googling it tally Son East. It's

701
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.280
<v Speaker 3>thirty seven dollars and ten cents for the tour.

702
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so.

703
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:29.519
<v Speaker 3>If you're ever in that part of Wisconsin, check it out.

704
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:33.599
<v Speaker 2>I would, I will. I do love architecture. I know.

705
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Kitty granted Frank his divorce in nineteen twenty two. He

706
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.679
<v Speaker 3>would go on to marry two more times. Upon his

707
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:43.599
<v Speaker 3>death in nineteen fifty nine, he was buried at tally

708
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.800
<v Speaker 3>Son next to Mama. Edwin Cheney wasted no time and

709
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.719
<v Speaker 3>was remarried within a year of his nineteen eleven divorce

710
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 3>from Meyma. He would have three more children with his

711
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:57.079
<v Speaker 3>new wife, Elizabeth. Kitty remarried in nineteen thirty to a

712
00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:05.039
<v Speaker 3>retired Chicago businessman, Benjamin And that's the end of today's story.

713
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Tanya, that is so crazy. I had no idea such

714
00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:11.000
<v Speaker 2>horror befell him.

715
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:14.880
<v Speaker 3>I know, like it's never brought to me. I feel

716
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:15.880
<v Speaker 3>like it's never brought up.

717
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Never.

718
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.400
<v Speaker 3>There is some Frank Lloyd Wright homes here locally. I

719
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.199
<v Speaker 3>want to say they're probably I don't know for sure,

720
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:26.800
<v Speaker 3>so don't quote me, but I want to say, like

721
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:30.440
<v Speaker 3>Birmingham West Bloomfield, like somewhere in that area. I'm pretty

722
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:34.039
<v Speaker 3>sure there's a house or two that he designed, and

723
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.840
<v Speaker 3>so that I think our residential homes, like people actually

724
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:41.920
<v Speaker 3>still live there. I had no idea that this is

725
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.599
<v Speaker 3>a crazy story, right.

726
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:49.119
<v Speaker 2>It's so separate from him and his legacy as an architect. Yes,

727
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.199
<v Speaker 2>because when I was living in Buffalo, there's a street

728
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I lived nearby, Delaware Delaware Avenue, and it used to

729
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.679
<v Speaker 2>be called I believe Millionaire's Row something because Millionaire lived

730
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.039
<v Speaker 2>on this street and Frank Lloyd Webber has I think

731
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.159
<v Speaker 2>ten structures, and I'm sorry, thank you Frank Loyd Webber

732
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:15.039
<v Speaker 2>the composer, is that, yeah, thank you. Frank Lloyd Right

733
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:18.880
<v Speaker 2>does have I think ten buildings in Buffalo, so he

734
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 2>has a connection there, and I do love his architecture,

735
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:26.559
<v Speaker 2>like what I've seen and the gorgeous so yeah, he's

736
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 2>It's just amazing that it doesn't go hand in hand.

737
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, you think this tragedy would be something that

738
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.559
<v Speaker 3>would never like it would be Frank Lloyd Wright and

739
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:39.800
<v Speaker 3>his mistress who was murdered at Telly Yson.

740
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:42.519
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean? How that is never brought

741
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.920
<v Speaker 2>You're right, it's never brought up. I'm so impressed with

742
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:49.760
<v Speaker 2>this story. I'm not impressed with what happened. I'm impressed

743
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:53.559
<v Speaker 2>that it's been not told. Yeah, this is my first

744
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.800
<v Speaker 2>time hearing it. Thank you so much for bringing it.

745
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna do I you know, I'm always looking up

746
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.679
<v Speaker 2>people's birthdays to understand or they come in at and

747
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 2>his mother Anna, so she's she's also one to her

748
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:15.360
<v Speaker 2>sign Aquarius. You know, it's an Aquarius supporting a gemini'sed

749
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:21.280
<v Speaker 2>delusion of danger. No, that's so cool, Tanya, thank you

750
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.039
<v Speaker 2>so much for bringing this. I do feel smarter now.

751
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 2>No Ie about.

752
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Crazy American I know. So thank you Shannon for listening

753
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.880
<v Speaker 3>to this week's story, and thank you everyone for listening

754
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.719
<v Speaker 3>to this week's story as well. Before you go, please

755
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:41.800
<v Speaker 3>hit the subscriber follow button on whatever app you're listening to.

756
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.480
<v Speaker 3>If you haven't done so well ready and if you

757
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:48.639
<v Speaker 3>enjoy the stories that Shannon and I tell, you can

758
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.679
<v Speaker 3>join our Patreon. You can find it at patreon dot

759
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:55.559
<v Speaker 3>com slash t nt crimes, or you can also join

760
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.920
<v Speaker 3>through the Apple podcast app. And what you'll get what

761
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:02.199
<v Speaker 3>the benefits are. You'll get the regular episodes like this one,

762
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:05.280
<v Speaker 3>you'll get at early release and AD free, and then

763
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:07.960
<v Speaker 3>you would also get an extra episode a week. So

764
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:11.960
<v Speaker 3>right now, we probably have about two hundred and fifty

765
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.519
<v Speaker 3>Patreon episodes I think from when. Some of them are

766
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:19.519
<v Speaker 3>from with Shannon and some of them probably about fifty

767
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:21.880
<v Speaker 3>of them i've been with Shannon. I think you maybe

768
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.480
<v Speaker 3>you came around what episode two hundred, two hundred and

769
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:27.719
<v Speaker 3>ten something like that, early two hundreds, yes, yeah, early

770
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:30.559
<v Speaker 3>two hundred. So the other previous two hundreds are Teleia

771
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 3>and I. So if you are interested, please check out

772
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:37.599
<v Speaker 3>our Patreon or go to Apple podcast app. We have

773
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:41.679
<v Speaker 3>a website crimesoconsequences dot com that you can also check out.

774
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:45.079
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's all the business. Sounds like it,

775
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:47.239
<v Speaker 2>my friends, sounds like good business.

776
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:51.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Well, thank you again and I will see you soon.

777
00:44:51.760 --> 00:45:03.000
<v Speaker 3>So until our next episode, bye bye.
