Speaker 1: Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week
Speaker 1: covering Foundation season two episode three, King and Commoner.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Spacing Out.
Speaker 3: I'm BB and I'm Jason, and we are discussing Foundation
Speaker 3: one episode at a time. Spoiler free. Foundation is currently
Speaker 3: available to stream on Apple TV. This is our first
Speaker 3: time watching a series, so we will not be watching
Speaker 3: ahead and therefore we won't have any spoiler section or
Speaker 3: any spoilers at all. May occasionally bring up some things
Speaker 3: from the books. This episode is being released on two
Speaker 3: different podcasts, so if you're listening via Spacing Out with Foundation,
Speaker 3: I invite you to check out our main channel, Spacing
Speaker 3: Out with BB and Jason, where we have covered other
Speaker 3: shows and movies such as Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Our,
Speaker 3: Flag Means Death, Alien, and more. Today we are talking
Speaker 3: about Foundation season two, episode three, King and Commoner. This
Speaker 3: originally aired on July twenty eighth, two twenty three, Written
Speaker 3: by lay Dana Jackson and Jane Esmondson and directed by
Speaker 3: David S. Goyer. In this episode, Lady Demerzil recruits General
Speaker 3: bell Rios from prison to investigate the Foundation, reuniting him
Speaker 3: with his husband gleywyn Heer before leading a fleet to
Speaker 3: the outer Reach, Harry, Gale, and Salvor visit UNA's world,
Speaker 3: where Harry's consciousness has transferred into an organic body. With
Speaker 3: the help of the mysterious Cali. While evading reactivated mining machines,
Speaker 3: they retrieve Harry's body and escape the planet. Meanwhile, huber
Speaker 3: Mallow steals the eye of Coral using teleportation technology. It's
Speaker 3: captured and sentenced to death, but out smarts his captors
Speaker 3: and escapes in the ship Polly.
Speaker 1: Five check. Did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2: It was all over the place, but I liked it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, Sana show that likes to like focus on
Speaker 3: on one storyline. It's always jumping around. Yeah, but yet
Speaker 3: overall I'm liking it. It's bringing in more characters that
Speaker 3: are more interesting and saw a lot of things I'm
Speaker 3: not understanding, but still here for it. You have anything
Speaker 3: else to say about.
Speaker 2: It, I'm waiting until we go to the deep dive
Speaker 2: copy that.
Speaker 1: Trivia time. What facts or news could we uncover for
Speaker 1: King and Commoner?
Speaker 3: Last time talked a little bit about the writer Jane Espenson.
Speaker 3: We have another writer today. Lay Danna Jackson is known
Speaker 3: for the Old Man, which is ANTHX TV series starring
Speaker 3: Jeff Bridges and Raising Dion, so Netflix TV series about
Speaker 3: a child superhero. And he's also worked a lot with
Speaker 3: Spike Lee, including being his teaching assistant in n Yu
Speaker 3: from the books. I think last week, maybe it was
Speaker 3: two weeks ago bel Rios his name was mentioned. Now
Speaker 3: we actually meet him, and then the storyline about rescuing
Speaker 3: Hobert Mallow is the Roofs adaptation of one of the
Speaker 3: sections of the first novel, and he's a very different
Speaker 3: character than his book counterpart. The book version is a
Speaker 3: hardened trader turned politician who is always very serious, and
Speaker 3: the TV version, as we see, is a little more
Speaker 3: comic relief. That's all the trivia I have. So let's
Speaker 3: get into our discussion.
Speaker 1: Deep space dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
Speaker 1: on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
Speaker 1: through email or social media. We may use your comments
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 2: So how about that internment camp? Huh yay, we're forced labor.
Speaker 2: You think your society is advanced, and so you see
Speaker 2: how the corporal punishment system operates. That's the real testament
Speaker 2: to your society. I think, how do you punish people.
Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting and not much changed in
Speaker 2: our human existence, so I should have changed in a fantasy, right, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Don't have Trantur without the opposite on other worlds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well were they mining the cocaine? What was that?
Speaker 3: Something just piles.
Speaker 2: A white pouter? Yeah, baking soda? What was it?
Speaker 3: Not relevant?
Speaker 2: It's just random white shit, And it didn't seem like
Speaker 2: mining to me. Like when I think of mining, I
Speaker 2: either think of like strip mining, which is like the
Speaker 2: worst kind of mining, or.
Speaker 3: Because you have to strip while you're doing.
Speaker 2: It, Well that's not bad. No, it's because it like
Speaker 2: gets rid of good Earth. You're you're digging down past
Speaker 2: like the best layers of our like Earth's crust and
Speaker 2: like the soil and rich like plantable like usable soils,
Speaker 2: just to get to minerals and deposits that are below it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, though, I don't know how viable like
Speaker 2: coal mining, you know, like an area above a coal mine,
Speaker 2: I don't know how fruitful it could be either. Based
Speaker 2: on this show, it's like, you know, two feet thick
Speaker 2: and you're done. So I don't know if that's like
Speaker 2: enough for plants to find foothold for their root systems.
Speaker 3: We also saw that the other planet that Gale and
Speaker 3: then landed on that they had forget what they said.
Speaker 3: They did those machines like pulled everything useful out of
Speaker 3: the ground and that's why it was hollow like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they turned towards the people scary.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was interesting though, to see like a character that
Speaker 2: Empire didn't agree with and punished that now he needs
Speaker 2: him and he's like still being umpire about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it seems like he feared him more than
Speaker 3: was like needing to punish him, like you needed to
Speaker 3: keep him away because he had popularity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a popular person with who was probably like
Speaker 2: could have been a better leader than him, to be honest,
Speaker 2: But because they're so like committed to this like genetic line,
Speaker 2: there's no opportunity for better leadership. I'm sad that we
Speaker 2: didn't get to see what happened with him and his girlfriend.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I guess they couldn't fit everything into one episode.
Speaker 2: Jeez, But they seem to be able to fit him.
Speaker 2: Watching the to the gay couple reuniting and Cassine while
Speaker 2: he's being caressed by his robot stepmom. This show makes
Speaker 2: really weird choices. Yeah, when it comes to that robot
Speaker 2: lady and an empire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure why they're doing that. But lots
Speaker 3: of butts too, Oh yeah, lots of butts. Butts, but
Speaker 3: never a never a penis shadow. Never a penis shadow
Speaker 3: your or balls. Your balls don't have low enough for
Speaker 3: us to see anything between your legs, which to me
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense no at all, because I took a
Speaker 3: lot of like figure drawing classes, and testicles like are
Speaker 3: ever present even from the back, depending on the angle,
Speaker 3: you know. I thought it was kind of a power
Speaker 3: move for him to be like, no, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to shower and clean up fuck that. He made me this,
Speaker 3: so he has to sit with this, and that was
Speaker 3: like I really respected that. And even when he was
Speaker 3: like negotiating his like freedom, he's like, nah, nah, not
Speaker 3: just me, freedom for everybody here. And obviously that's not
Speaker 3: going to happen, but hopefully he did manage to get
Speaker 3: better working conditions for them. Yeah, I guess we just
Speaker 3: have to trust empire. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't think I trust Empire. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that this is demersals kind of idea to
Speaker 3: bring him into this, and like she's kind of making
Speaker 3: decisions within the empire.
Speaker 2: I think that's kind of her point of being like
Speaker 2: a seductress, right, She's probably tired of sitting on the
Speaker 2: sidelines and watching empires slowly turn the ship into the
Speaker 2: fucking iceberg. You know, like she can see it, even
Speaker 2: though she doesn't know psychohistory or whatever the fuck they
Speaker 2: called it, she can clearly see that there's a pattern
Speaker 2: here for this dumb ass to like do dumb ass shit.
Speaker 2: And she's finally stepping in and using emotional and physical
Speaker 2: manipulation to have a say in how things are run.
Speaker 2: And I feel like women have had to resort to
Speaker 2: this type of quote unquote manipulation because they're not seen
Speaker 2: as like leaders. And I don't know if this show
Speaker 2: really sees women as leaders in a way that's like impactful,
Speaker 2: because like it's kind of minor. But like when they
Speaker 2: were landing on that planet, Harry was like, let me
Speaker 2: land us and the girls just like let go of
Speaker 2: the reins and let Jesus take the wheel. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's very subtle and most people wouldn't recognize it, but
Speaker 2: it's just like to me, it's very overt, like let
Speaker 2: this white man, this older white man, take over the driving,
Speaker 2: let him have the front seat. And it's just like
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know everything in their storyline, like Gale and Salvoard, like
Speaker 3: no power over anything happening. No, they're kind of they
Speaker 3: make one decision to leave and that doesn't work out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I mean there's one character I really don't like
Speaker 3: in this show. It is Harry Selden. And initially I
Speaker 3: thought like, well, that's fine because I know he's not
Speaker 3: going to be around very long. Like as a book reader,
Speaker 3: I knew like he kind of exits the story just
Speaker 3: the idea of him is out there. But she's like
Speaker 3: deeply entrenched in this. Yeah, and now now he's a
Speaker 3: person again. Yeah, so now he's a full on character. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's just so arrogant.
Speaker 2: And I don't like the way that he behaves around
Speaker 2: these women of color, how he's like choking them and
Speaker 2: like and like manipulating them and like misleading them in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, like oh, I said it was
Speaker 2: gonna be five hundred meters horizontally, like you asshole, And
Speaker 2: she didn't bring enough water, like you are not a
Speaker 2: corporal bean right now. You don't realize how fucked up
Speaker 2: that is that you didn't tell her. Maybe you should
Speaker 2: bring an extra water bottle. It's gonna be a long
Speaker 2: trip and she's got to come back alone. I'm interested
Speaker 2: to see how that lady in that cave kind of
Speaker 2: comes into play, what her role is other than turning
Speaker 2: water into wine or whatever she did to make him
Speaker 2: a person. Very interesting. I think she's one of the
Speaker 2: ladies that he was like talking to when he was
Speaker 2: stuck in that prism.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like I don't know what her role
Speaker 2: is or what she does or I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: very mysterious, and I kind of like that. Usually when
Speaker 2: there's a mystery in this show, I fucking hate it.
Speaker 3: And according to Gail, that woman should be long dead
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but so should she. So shut up, Gail, who
Speaker 2: are you to talk?
Speaker 3: Go talk to your daughter some really having parental issues.
Speaker 2: Well, she just got like informed that she's gonna die.
Speaker 2: Trying to deal with her mortality is kind of hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting that, like there's two kind of weird,
Speaker 3: omniscient things happening where the prime Radiant is making a
Speaker 3: decision for them to like to go to this place
Speaker 3: and do this thing that gives Harry a body, and
Speaker 3: that's not how the psychohistory thing is supposed to work.
Speaker 3: And they all acknowledge that. So we're like why how
Speaker 3: did this happen? And then also on terminus the same thing,
Speaker 3: they're saying, like psychohistory shouldn't know about one individual person.
Speaker 3: It's all about like, you know, the movement of massive mass. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's calling for hober Mallow and like how does
Speaker 3: he even know this single person exist?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe that teleport device is somehow vital
Speaker 2: or something, because that seems like a really important invention.
Speaker 2: Uh and uh, that guy was interesting. I did like him.
Speaker 2: I liked how he's kind of like finessing that leader
Speaker 2: and that scene where he was getting tied down to
Speaker 2: that like Pike thing. Yeah, that feels like somebody's like
Speaker 2: it's a mixture of like Nazi Germany and like the
Speaker 2: Jim Crows House where there were lyncheans and public and stuff,
Speaker 2: and it's just like again, like this idea of corporal
Speaker 2: punishment is very prominent in this world, Like what do
Speaker 2: you do with your criminals or perceived criminals because in
Speaker 2: both of these cases, like it didn't seem like the
Speaker 2: person had a proper trial. It didn't seem like they
Speaker 2: really hurt anybody, and they didn't to me, like whatever
Speaker 2: that rock he's like, they could have just taken the
Speaker 2: rock back and led it, told him like you're banned
Speaker 2: from this planet and called it good. But they're like, no,
Speaker 2: we're gonna strap your ass down and put you in
Speaker 2: this cool hoodie.
Speaker 3: Because you have to wear the thing with a target
Speaker 3: on you. It would miss.
Speaker 2: No what if it did miss? What if he like,
Speaker 2: you know when you sit down and your shirt goes
Speaker 2: up a little, what was like the target was way
Speaker 2: too high and it was off target on his belly
Speaker 2: button or something.
Speaker 3: I think it was big enough to kill himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That so we see them execute one guy first. He
Speaker 3: didn't get final words or no, they're like.
Speaker 2: Prisoner number one execute boom.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what it reminded me of. You know when
Speaker 2: you click a pen and the little pen comes down,
Speaker 2: that's what it gave you click click, and then they
Speaker 2: retracts and they use the same rusted point for the
Speaker 2: next guy. Very medieval, very Spanish inquisition, very Catholic. I
Speaker 2: don't know. It was uh. I think that was the
Speaker 2: liveliest scene in the whole episode. And then one thing
Speaker 2: that did bother me was when he gave his speech
Speaker 2: and he's like making new friends. Then he looks at
Speaker 2: the girl with the blue eyes that shouldn't have blue
Speaker 2: eyes because she's a brown person, and it just feels
Speaker 2: like she's an alien or something. I don't know, Like
Speaker 2: those gotta be contacts, right, they look so scary on her,
Speaker 2: like freaky. But I are they trying to like do
Speaker 2: a love connection there? I don't he when they do
Speaker 2: that where it's like, oh, well you're a pretty young
Speaker 2: woman and he's a handsome young man and so about
Speaker 2: a being a bad a boom love try it love interest?
Speaker 3: I don't know, because he did like do that thing
Speaker 3: where he landed on top of her and there's an
Speaker 3: awkward moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so lame. It's so lame. And I thought
Speaker 2: she was a woman of the cloths. I thought there
Speaker 2: was like a abstinence or something there. What is she doing?
Speaker 2: She's not serious about her magic Mojo jojo red religion.
Speaker 3: Rules about that, I guess, and also spreading the good
Speaker 3: news of the Foundation and then and.
Speaker 2: Like she injected him with that shit that sobers you up. Right,
Speaker 2: That's what that was. That's what it looked like.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if he's just started throwing up, I'm like,
Speaker 2: he must have been high off his mind.
Speaker 3: Then. Yeah, he definitely brings a little different energy to
Speaker 3: the show. Yeah, he feels like he could be out
Speaker 3: of Was it that new Dungeon and Dragons movie?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah with Crispine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he gave that energy.
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say, Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Speaker 2: Galaxy maybe a little, a little Ford prefect. I'm still
Speaker 2: on the fence about this show. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people really really love it, but there's just like
Speaker 2: certain elements that feel very like microaggressions, Like things that
Speaker 2: are so subtle that somebody wouldn't notice them unless they
Speaker 2: are hyper tuned to like stuff like that. Also, like
Speaker 2: the scene with the two men reuniting when he finally
Speaker 2: cleaned himself up, it took forever for them to embrace
Speaker 2: and kiss, and then they didn't let you see the
Speaker 2: real kiss. You had to watch like a second hand
Speaker 2: version of the kiss. So that was also very like
Speaker 2: I don't know, like it felt weird. It also felt
Speaker 2: weird that we were watching them kiss through Empire's eyes,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, it's giving Empire like really pervate vibes.
Speaker 2: And I know he's not supposed to be likable, but
Speaker 2: I thought we agreed that he's not the villain, So
Speaker 2: what is he? There seems to be like a higher
Speaker 2: level threat like approaching, So what is the role of
Speaker 2: Empire now, Like it's like, what is the failing government
Speaker 2: like grasping to like survive flailing? Yeah, but what's the
Speaker 2: significance of that? Whenever we have bigger fish to fry,
Speaker 2: one government failing. I mean there's got to be hundreds
Speaker 2: of factions right in a universe. I'm interested to see
Speaker 2: what the General finds in the outer Reach and how
Speaker 2: he approaches it because I feel like, I don't know why,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I can trust him. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: because I saw him as an enslaved person who was
Speaker 2: helping other enslaved people, and you don't see that in
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a quick shortcut to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: this is a good guy. Yeah, and he's he's loyal
Speaker 3: to the Empire, but he seems to make it clear
Speaker 3: that like is because he actually cares about the people.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think he cares about the role that
Speaker 2: he plays in a larger society. Like he understands Empire
Speaker 2: is our faction right now and so and I made
Speaker 2: a commitment to serve the public that you serve. So
Speaker 2: it's not like a commitment to Empire himself. It's it's
Speaker 2: a commitment to the people, which I completely understand. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I may not like who you are, what you represent,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, you are the
Speaker 2: government for all of these people, and those people all
Speaker 2: need protection, and you're not good at giving it to them,
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Empires two disconnected from the people to care about them.
Speaker 2: I feel like he has no idea what the people
Speaker 2: are like. If he sees like the way that he
Speaker 2: sees the people is probably like the ones who are
Speaker 2: trying to kill him. They're the ones to control. They
Speaker 2: don't to him, they symbolize like his ability to control.
Speaker 2: And so I think he doesn't understand that the people
Speaker 2: can Well maybe he does now because he hadn't for
Speaker 2: a long time. The people can also be his downfall.
Speaker 2: It's like that scene in the movie A Bugs Life
Speaker 2: where the grasshoppers are like telling the bugs like the
Speaker 2: ants specifically, like that they work for them. But then
Speaker 2: the ants realize, we're like way bigger, Like there's twenty
Speaker 2: of you and one hundred of us. We can overpower you,
Speaker 2: we can say no. And I feel like Empire doesn't
Speaker 2: see that, and that's I think that's gonna be the
Speaker 2: cause of his downfall ultimately, is him not seeing the
Speaker 2: power in people becaus little as they may be together,
Speaker 2: they can form like strong opposition. And I think that's
Speaker 2: why the Foundation is finally seen as a threat. He
Speaker 2: didn't realize he gave them power by putting them so
Speaker 2: far out of reach. Yeah, he thought he was being
Speaker 2: clever by putting them all the way out there, you.
Speaker 3: Know, because as his power is drinking and like they're
Speaker 3: losing the outer planets and the Foundation is out there
Speaker 3: on the outer rim scooping them up with their their
Speaker 3: door to door Bible salesman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very interesting. I do. I do see the lure
Speaker 2: of that kind of ideology of saying, like, you know,
Speaker 2: do not trust these men in high places because they
Speaker 2: don't have you your best interest in mind. Like I
Speaker 2: like that, and I think it's interesting that they're exploring that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm interested to see more, for sure.
Speaker 2: I feel like the show's finally peaking my interest in
Speaker 2: a way that's not annoyance.
Speaker 3: Well, that's good. One more interesting thing to note when
Speaker 3: Harry and Gale were walking across the sand, that he
Speaker 3: wasn't leaving footprints. I thought that was a nice little detail.
Speaker 2: I thought it was weird that he wouldn't just jump
Speaker 2: from one position to a next like a like a mirage,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean he could have. It would have
Speaker 2: been cool if he did, just to show how inhuman
Speaker 2: he is, you know. I think that was too subtle
Speaker 2: to say he doesn't leave footprints. It would have been
Speaker 2: funnier if he was like standing next to Gale and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, he's like twenty foot of
Speaker 2: hoever and he's like, come on, bitch, hurry up, and
Speaker 2: she's like sweating, you know, Like, I don't know, it
Speaker 2: would have been fun. I feel like they could have
Speaker 2: played with that more, because, especially if they were gonna
Speaker 2: turn him human, they should have like definitely played up
Speaker 2: his inhumanness way more. Because the way they did it
Speaker 2: was super subtle, and if you weren't watching the well
Speaker 2: like close enough, you would have missed it that she
Speaker 2: was like sweating her balls off and he was still
Speaker 2: clean and pristine and that white shirt.
Speaker 3: I don't know. He's been in human for the last
Speaker 3: like several episodes, jumping around the ship all the time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: but I would have liked to seen it in the desert.
Speaker 3: Any other thoughts, then let's talk about an astral queen.
Speaker 1: Astral Queen was the stand out character in the episode.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give it to that guy that they mentioned
Speaker 2: before they fried, that homeboy forget his name, global Marshmallow.
Speaker 3: Before they fried.
Speaker 2: Remember in the last episode, the last thing you saw
Speaker 2: was that man get.
Speaker 3: Is generated marshall over mouth Yeah yeah, also known as
Speaker 3: Marshmallow from henceforth. I mean he was on my mind
Speaker 3: too for this is because he was such a dea, yeah,
Speaker 3: and he was one step ahead of everyone.
Speaker 2: And he gave that energy that you're not getting from
Speaker 2: this show, Like this show desperately needed some sort of
Speaker 2: like like a lightheartedness.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I mentioned in trivia that the book version
Speaker 3: of him is very hard and serious, and it'd be
Speaker 3: very be another dull character yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, I'm already tired with Gail and how their homegirl
Speaker 2: having really sad, boring basic conversations about the future. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's still boring, Like I'm falling asleep whenever those two talk.
Speaker 2: There's no chemistry whatsoever there, And I'm really sad because
Speaker 2: that's supposed to be mother daughter. I don't know why
Speaker 2: they did that to themselves. They should have put them
Speaker 2: in a room to see, like, do these people like
Speaker 2: seem like they're related, because they would have been great
Speaker 2: if they had like a mannerism or a little twitch
Speaker 2: or a little something that was slightly similar. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I like cobor Marshmallow.
Speaker 3: All right, two votes for Marshmallow. I believe that's all
Speaker 3: we have for this episode. Then the next one, well,
Speaker 3: the episode four titled where the stars are scattered thinly
Speaker 3: and that's just out of space, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, thinly. Maybe it's like the outer reach.
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe the edges of the galaxy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, all right them enjoy the piece.
Speaker 1: Yep, thank you for spacing out with BB and Jason.
Speaker 1: You can help us out by subscribing and leaving a
Speaker 1: positive rating or review. Remember, you can contact us through
Speaker 1: email or social media. Next time we will cover Foundation
Speaker 1: season two, episode four, where the stars are scattered thinly