1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasi Goos, I am dan Fa Valley 2 00:00:10,279 --> 00:00:13,599 coming at you with my certified fantabis cohost, mister Grant Hues. 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 2: We apologize for the live stream delay to anyone who 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:16,679 was waiting. 5 00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:19,559 Speaker 1: We were dealing and still are dealing with some tech issues, 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,199 so you might notice Grant's cameras a little different. The 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,480 mic settings are not what we would prefer. After we 8 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:27,199 finally I feel like got everything hammered out. What we're 9 00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:30,879 reverting because technology hates us, but we're powering through anyway, 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,719 because look, no one's ever done NBA Western Conference Tiers 11 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:36,640 before immediately following. 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,719 Speaker 2: Like the the most busiest. 13 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,399 Speaker 1: Time of NBA free agency in the offseason, so we 14 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:42,799 felt like we would do something different that no one's 15 00:00:42,799 --> 00:00:44,679 ever done before, and we just had to make sure 16 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:47,640 to get this out there. So Grant, after the stressful 17 00:00:47,719 --> 00:00:49,960 about forty three minutes that you just had trying to 18 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,079 get everything right, how are you doing? 19 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 3: Not at all annoyed, not super not into my rope. 20 00:00:57,159 --> 00:00:59,960 I just want to make clear like this doesn't matter. 21 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:03,719 But I didn't change anything, I didn't mess with my setup, 22 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,000 and yet here we are so deeply frustrated. If I'm 23 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:07,920 gonna be honest with you. 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,359 Speaker 2: Losso, and I might say this a couple of times. 25 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: If you're in the chat and you notice any mega 26 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,280 volume discrepancies, I will obviously fix this an audio later, 27 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:17,040 but I can try to fix it as best I 28 00:01:17,079 --> 00:01:20,799 can live. We're dealing with you, guys don't need to know, 29 00:01:20,879 --> 00:01:23,400 but just we're We're not doing this on purpose, is 30 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:25,760 all we shot out. Shout out to Grant for figuring 31 00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:28,079 out some type of there's like books involved and shit 32 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:31,040 like there's some real life like the stuff we do 33 00:01:31,159 --> 00:01:31,799 to put out. 34 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: Content that no one else has put out before. 35 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: But that's enough of me. Just lookhittting my shoulder, patting 36 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:39,640 us on the back, sir. As we talked about when 37 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,400 we did the Eastern Conference, go check that out. 38 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: If you do not. 39 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: Is there anything any either, like something you kept specifically 40 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,959 in mind. How did some of the unsettled free agency 41 00:01:47,959 --> 00:01:49,920 stuff impact how you viewed teams at all? Is or 42 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:52,799 just any just overarching notes we need to lay down 43 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,879 before we dig into the to the muck. 44 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:57,799 Speaker 3: I mean, I think I would refer back to what 45 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:00,120 we talked about on the East, but I would say, 46 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:03,319 like we're taking these teams as they are, so there 47 00:02:03,359 --> 00:02:06,280 are some that maybe there's a move or two to 48 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:08,680 be made that everybody expects them to make, but it 49 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,800 hasn't happened yet. I'm not really assuming those are definite, 50 00:02:12,039 --> 00:02:14,240 Like just the Warriors, like, oh, they've been were rumored 51 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,599 to get Al Horford for example, hasn't happened. Who knows 52 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:19,919 if it will happen. I'm just kind of taking them 53 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,479 as they are at the moment. There aren't too many 54 00:02:22,479 --> 00:02:25,120 cases like that, but that's the only sort of caveat. 55 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:27,599 I guess maybe there is some flexibility with these. There 56 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,120 should be. It's like mid July and we're tiering conferences, 57 00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:34,280 so things could change obviously, But yeah, just to reiterate, 58 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,719 we're just looking at I don't know, you correct me 59 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:39,639 if you kind of think of it differently at all, 60 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,960 but we're looking at sort of the proxy for like 61 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,000 how we think the conference standings are going to look 62 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,319 at the end of the season. That's really hard because 63 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,439 we are going to just talk about like ranges and 64 00:02:53,479 --> 00:02:55,879 ceilings and floors. But that's also a pretty good stand 65 00:02:55,879 --> 00:02:58,639 in for you know, who's got the most championship equity, 66 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,560 And I think we can note it where you know, 67 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:04,080 if this team is actually in a tier, you know, 68 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,960 a second tier team or something, but we think maybe 69 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:08,719 there's a third tier team that might actually have a 70 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:12,240 better title shot. Like we have to kind of juggle that. 71 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,680 That's been kind of the tricky part, but you know, 72 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,599 we're just doing rankings and tiers. It's not that complicated really, 73 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:19,240 we don't need to overthink it beyond that. 74 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: Wow way to just throw away all of our hard work. 75 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: And the final note we have is we each get 76 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,639 one veto sure if we did last time, and we're 77 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,599 hoping that Grant will use this, so we're alternate. We'll 78 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,599 go through it by tier, but we're alternate. When Grant 79 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:33,639 picks the team to go into your f there'll be 80 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,879 six tiers. As always, we want to know your thoughts 81 00:03:35,879 --> 00:03:37,280 in the comment if you have questions, we'll try to 82 00:03:37,319 --> 00:03:39,319 get to them throughout. And again, if you're having any 83 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,719 volume issues live, like if there's a discrepancy in what 84 00:03:41,719 --> 00:03:44,879 the mics are sounding or this is unnavigable for you, 85 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,520 let us know. We'll try and fix it the best 86 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,280 that we can. But I think with that, and we're 87 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,360 gonna have a blake screen for a second, because Grant 88 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:53,159 was in and out so many times that he probably 89 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:54,199 got booted from the stage. 90 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:54,879 Speaker 2: I'm got to throw on. 91 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:58,759 Speaker 1: We're going to begin with the F tier, So grant 92 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,960 you're back. I scared for like a little laughing hint 93 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,039 in the chat tier Utah Jazz. Hey, they don't yet 94 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:11,120 you Wrong're not wrong. I like Austin ahe kind of 95 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,719 gaming about we're not gonna tank, but we're just gonna 96 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:15,240 be so bad that even when we try to wait 97 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,959 in that it's not gonna work out either. 98 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:18,959 Speaker 4: That's how you end up in your own tier at 99 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:19,560 the very bottom. 100 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,319 Speaker 3: This is the Utah Jazz loan loan proprietors of Tier F. 101 00:04:23,439 --> 00:04:26,199 Unless you feel differently and want an exercise a veto 102 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,199 right away, I dare you use it all the way 103 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,240 down here? What a waste. 104 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,319 Speaker 1: That's what's tough about the vito, by the way, is 105 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,240 you have to consider when to use it. 106 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: It's it's not unlike a coach's challenge. Do you burn 107 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,560 it in the first quarter or do you wait for 108 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,600 a high leverage moment. I think I think you gotta wait. 109 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,480 You could throw up to three teams I think in 110 00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:50,879 a tier with the Jazz if you really wanted to uh, 111 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,040 I not have. 112 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:56,439 Speaker 4: Six tiers for example, Like, but do. 113 00:04:56,399 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: You think it's fair to have Utah like a loan 114 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,680 in a tier of one at the bottom. Do you 115 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,360 think the Jazz are different enough from just say the 116 00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:07,079 next handful or I think it's three teams two or 117 00:05:07,079 --> 00:05:08,120 three we're gonna discuss. 118 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've telled there. Look, there's only one 119 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,800 team in the Western Conference trying to lose next year, 120 00:05:14,959 --> 00:05:17,319 or at least doesn't think that they're trying to lose 121 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:18,319 shout out to the Pelicans. 122 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,519 Speaker 2: Maybe, But so I think that the Jazz clearly need 123 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:20,800 to blow. 124 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: I don't know what would be the case, Like, if 125 00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:26,600 there's a team that's as bad as the Jazz next year, 126 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,959 it's unintentional. And so if we read the tiers midseason, 127 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,759 that's where we'd put them in. How do you grapple though, 128 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,600 with Utah to give them some actual shine? First, I 129 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,879 think this is the right decision because they're still looking 130 00:05:38,959 --> 00:05:41,199 for You can get mad that they haven't found their 131 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:43,720 best player of the future. That's not going to change 132 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,199 the fact, like maybe they have Ace Bailey in it, 133 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:46,879 but you could be mad that they didn't find him before. 134 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,560 Now the reality of this situation is what they're doing 135 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,360 at this moment is their best shot at finding that 136 00:05:52,399 --> 00:05:55,519 player by one kind of giving the ball to Ace 137 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,079 Balley and then two like maximizing their lottery odds for 138 00:05:59,120 --> 00:05:59,480 next year. 139 00:05:59,480 --> 00:05:59,759 Speaker 2: And they do. 140 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: They're pick technically O to OKAC if it falls in 141 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,199 the top eight. But when you're looking at this team, 142 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,439 what are you kind of actually watching for? 143 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,759 Speaker 2: Is it just okay? Well? How good is as Bailey? 144 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:10,920 Is he potentially the guy? 145 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,759 Speaker 1: Or is there just any anything more about the direction 146 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,319 or maybe certain players or a grouping of players that 147 00:06:17,319 --> 00:06:18,120 that intrigues you. 148 00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 3: I think in general your one I there's two kinds 149 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,560 of things. I guess one is the emergence of a 150 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,800 cornerstone type that's that's become such a broken record at 151 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,639 this point, it's been three years of a rebuild. They 152 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:33,000 don't have that guy. That's why the Bailey pick made sense. 153 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,519 It was a high risk, high reward kind of play, 154 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,000 which you just have to make if you've been in 155 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,120 this sort of cycle for as long as the Jazz 156 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,560 have without getting someone that you could point to as 157 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,319 you know, he's he's gonna be. He's got an all 158 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,480 star ceiling, even we're not even talking like best player 159 00:06:49,519 --> 00:06:52,079 on a championship team, like that's we're going to try 160 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,279 to work up to that if if you're the Jazz. 161 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:56,560 So there's that aspect of it, and that has to 162 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,040 center on Bailey, I, you know, and then I I 163 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,240 guess it's just the guys that fit around that. Like 164 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,920 I still think Taylor Hendrix is someone not not as 165 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,600 like a super duper star, but is he someone that 166 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,319 becomes like the Aaron Gordon of the jazz type of thing? 167 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: You know. 168 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: It's things like that. And then you're looking at Collier 169 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:17,759 and George. Are either of them gonna, you know, prove 170 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:21,480 themselves to be first unit guards on a good team? 171 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,639 Long way to go there? And then there's a Lori 172 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:27,439 market And the second thing is like where does he fit? 173 00:07:28,079 --> 00:07:30,519 Can he pump up his trade value? Is trading him 174 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:33,120 the plan? That's kind of the separate aspect to consider 175 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:33,720 with the Jazz. 176 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:36,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Larry market and stuff's interesting because it's I 177 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:39,560 think he's not untouchable despite what they say about. 178 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,439 Speaker 2: Him being a cornerstone. 179 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: But you don't just the timeline that you're on, you 180 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:44,680 don't just trade him for anything because he makes a 181 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,319 lot of money. You already look, you got rid of 182 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:48,399 a bunch of the other older dudes, so I'd echo 183 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,680 everything you say there. I do think obviously want to 184 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:51,959 see what as Bailey is, but I think I might 185 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,439 just be most excited to be like, Okay, it's Taylor 186 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Hendrick's healthy, and what does he look like? Kyle Philipowski 187 00:07:56,199 --> 00:07:59,360 had some exciting moments in Summer League too. I'm also 188 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,720 kind of wondering the glutt of just sort of like 189 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,399 they cleared it up a little bit by getting rid 190 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:07,800 of Collins, but the Philipowski, Hendrix, Walker Kessler of it all, 191 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,800 like can you play those three together? And Lowry market 192 00:08:09,839 --> 00:08:11,240 In is there, like how do you sort of game 193 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:13,360 that can any one of them aside from Lowry play 194 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,360 the three? But I like, I lovel Hardy as a 195 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,639 head coach that he'll try some creative things. But this team, yeah, 196 00:08:19,639 --> 00:08:22,360 they're I think they're right to belong in a tier 197 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:25,519 all their own, which means grant that we can. 198 00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:29,079 Speaker 2: Move up to tiered. Move up to that's so insulting, 199 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,279 but it's Tier D. 200 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: And so the first team that I'm gonna put in 201 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,440 Tier D is let's go with the Phoenix suns here. 202 00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:42,159 I think, I think that's the play. They did extend 203 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,840 Devin Booker and they also bought out Bradley Bual and 204 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,720 then you know that's basically it, like they drafted Capmint mallawatch, 205 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:51,559 they traded Kevin Durant. 206 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't even mention that. 207 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: You look at this team and I don't actually can 208 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,480 we talk about the the Bradley Beal the Devin Booker 209 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,360 stuff before getting into I don't have an issue with 210 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:03,679 them extending Devin Booker. They gave him a player option, 211 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,120 so I think you can say, as an organization, if 212 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:09,039 you were ready to move on or worry about hurting 213 00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:10,639 his trade value, you wouldn't. 214 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: Give him that extension. 215 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,759 Speaker 1: But like, you just don't have anything other than Devin 216 00:09:14,799 --> 00:09:17,240 Booker in place right now, so I understand why you 217 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:19,799 pay him to keep him happy. And they're like that 218 00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:22,720 deal could still be moved later. This runs through like 219 00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:25,159 his age thirty two, age thirty three season, whatever it is. 220 00:09:25,639 --> 00:09:28,320 I thought I found the reaction to it like kind 221 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,919 of funny, like, well, I don't view it. Maybe it's 222 00:09:30,919 --> 00:09:32,399 not going to be the best contract by the end, 223 00:09:32,399 --> 00:09:34,480 but what else did you want the Sons to do. 224 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,360 What I actually take more of an issue with is 225 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:41,360 that you're clearly headed nowhere in the near term. There 226 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:43,200 probably were other ways for you to get out of 227 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,200 the second apron. I know, we saw all the money 228 00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:47,840 that Matt HBO was able to save by the Bradley 229 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,080 Beal buyout and wave and stretch. Unless you have like 230 00:09:51,159 --> 00:09:53,679 some other move lined up that you think is going 231 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:57,960 to significantly elevate your team, you should have just bit 232 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,480 the bullet and let this contract run its course. 233 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:04,399 Speaker 2: Because I don't like the way it was framed. 234 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: As they open up all this flexibility to the unfreeze 235 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,919 future draft picks, and I get it, but again, you 236 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,360 could have figured out other ways to get out of 237 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,720 the second apron, and then beyond that, if you're not 238 00:10:12,759 --> 00:10:16,000 planning on being good, the functional limitations don't mean shit. 239 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: Do you know what this becomes about? 240 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: It becomes about saving money, And so Matt Ishbia like 241 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,799 the guy, like this guy who's willing to spend. I 242 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:25,200 understand the team's not good enough to justify paying that much, 243 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,120 but you just have like twenty million dollars on your 244 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,120 books in dead money for the next half decade. They 245 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,919 are going to pay an average of forty five plus 246 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,200 percent of the salary cap or the next half decade 247 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,279 to Beil and Devin Booker, and only one of them 248 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,919 plays for the Phoenix Suns. And so I find that 249 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,200 incredibly uninspiring, incredibly short sighted, which kind of fits the 250 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,200 motif of everything that's happened under Matt Ishbia since he 251 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,080 took the reins. 252 00:10:51,799 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 2: Of this organization. 253 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 3: So you just did what I always do with the Suns, 254 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,879 which is I can't look past the sort of like 255 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,440 general fuckery of the last couple of years and like 256 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,360 how it's ruined them going forward. And like I agree 257 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,759 with everything you said, except like I didn't love the 258 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:14,879 Booker extension just because, like just why you have three 259 00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:17,879 more years? Like what's the like is it to make 260 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,720 him happy? Do you? I don't know how it affects 261 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:23,720 his trade value. I mean it's it's really just one 262 00:11:23,799 --> 00:11:26,879 more guaranteed year. But what I wanted to say, I'll 263 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:28,559 throw it to you, but I just want to say, 264 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,600 like I have a hard time just answering the question 265 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,200 of how good is this team next year, because it's 266 00:11:34,279 --> 00:11:36,639 like the tenth thing I think about when I think 267 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,960 about the Suns, because it's I'm annoyed by Ishbiah and 268 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,840 I they keep doing all this dumb stuff and that, 269 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,200 you know, the beal By Like we got to have 270 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,279 at some point in conversation just about how good this 271 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,639 team actually is on the floor next year, because that's 272 00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:51,039 sort of what we're doing here. But I think we're 273 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:53,759 telegraphing how good the answer to that because they're just 274 00:11:53,799 --> 00:11:55,440 in a tier narrowly above the jazz. 275 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 4: But do you you get caught up in that too, right? 276 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:58,919 Do you catch yourself doing that? 277 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: I do it all the time. 278 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 3: I can't just think of the Suns the battle. 279 00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: They're inextricably tied together because when you're talking about the moves, 280 00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:07,120 they like, what is the okay? All this flexibility that 281 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,919 it opened up? What is the plan here? And wouldn't 282 00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:12,279 have been more beneficial to figure out another way to 283 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:13,879 get out of the second aprin Maybe you have to 284 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:16,600 wave and stretch other people at smaller amounts over the 285 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,559 next five years. Like if you think you can't just 286 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,679 trade a Royce O'Neil into another team's cap space, they 287 00:12:21,759 --> 00:12:23,679 sorry mid level except or I don't know, maybe the 288 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:25,440 Nests would be like, yeah, we could totally trade him 289 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,399 for seconds, like you could come into our cap space 290 00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:31,879 reunite with Royce O'Neil, Like, that's that's what I You're right, 291 00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:33,600 I can't get past it. But when you look at 292 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:36,960 the actual basketball team doesn't. So they went from having 293 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:39,240 and they still do. But unless you think that Jalen 294 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:42,559 Green or Dylan Brooks is gonna make this monumental leap 295 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,639 as a playmaker like they could, they need a floor 296 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,519 general in here, and I'm higher on Devin Booker as 297 00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:49,200 a playmaker than most, But when you look at the 298 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,679 bigs that they have in Malawatch, Mark Williams, Nick Richards, 299 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,639 they need like an organizer and like someone who's really 300 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,840 schooled and throwing all these lobs. And it can't just 301 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,080 be Devin Booker to me. And so this felt I 302 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,279 know everyone, and maybe it'll break while we're doing this. 303 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,519 Has CP three still going to the Clippers to reunite 304 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,039 with James Harden and be their what their their fourth 305 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,200 guard or their third guard? 306 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: Weird? 307 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,799 Speaker 1: But like, if he's not gonna go to the Clippers, 308 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:16,519 like this seems like a no brainer just to bring 309 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,320 him back to Phoenix. I saw some people like, well 310 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,440 he wants to start and we don't know if we will, 311 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:23,799 who the fuck cares bring Jalen Green off the bench 312 00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:25,799 if you have any or or bring Dylan Brooks off, 313 00:13:25,799 --> 00:13:27,000 You're not gonna be good anyway. 314 00:13:27,039 --> 00:13:27,799 Speaker 2: Like at least get. 315 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,799 Speaker 1: Someone in who's gonna help you groom your bigs moving forward. 316 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,480 So that's my thoughts on the Sun's the basketball team. 317 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,480 Is there still some younger players? I like in Ryan Dunn, 318 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:40,080 I'm actually not really a malawatch guy, but it's just 319 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,159 so early on his development. I love OsO Wigodaro so 320 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:45,799 lean into that more. I just I know Beal had 321 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,120 become toxic and kind of one of the harbingers of 322 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,759 everything the Suns did wrong. But you can't make that 323 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,600 move and then like your biggest move after that is like, hey, 324 00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:57,120 we were mentioned in the Jonathan Comingus sweepstakes that we 325 00:13:57,159 --> 00:13:58,200 have no way of pulling off. 326 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: Like that just can't be it. 327 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think like part of the reason we 328 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,039 both I'll just use use I s since I feel 329 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,879 like I do it the most. Fixate on I don't 330 00:14:10,879 --> 00:14:12,919 know the bigger picture Suns things is like that the 331 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,480 roster itself is like I don't know, there's You've got 332 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:17,759 Devin Booker and I don't know. 333 00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:19,039 Speaker 4: Maybe Jalen Green pops. 334 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,279 Speaker 3: Delan Brooks will defend. You've got three conventional centers if 335 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,919 you include Malawatch, which kind of buries a Gudaro, which 336 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:27,039 I don't love, and then Grayson Allen and O'Neil are 337 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,279 kind of meh. So like, I just don't see like 338 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,720 they're gonna try to win. But what do you think, 339 00:14:34,759 --> 00:14:37,080 like the upper limit of their win total is, like 340 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,639 can they win forty five? Like if everything goes right 341 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:41,759 or is even that. 342 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 4: Just way too long? 343 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: I like, if Booker's all NBA second team plays, you know, 344 00:14:47,759 --> 00:14:50,720 stays healthy, and then I don't know, just Brooks and 345 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,840 Jalen Green are what they were last year? 346 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:56,679 Speaker 4: Is there a way to like a sixth seed or anything? 347 00:14:57,519 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: No, they're not not a six seed, like if you 348 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,039 they were in the plane or maybe they were slight 349 00:15:02,159 --> 00:15:06,600 like forty two and forty maybe, but like without some 350 00:15:06,679 --> 00:15:08,919 type Like I just what is the theory of this 351 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,120 team right now? And obviously we don't know enough about 352 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,840 jor not as a head coach, so maybe that it 353 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,519 feels like the offense will be more inventive, but we 354 00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:17,200 don't know the theory of this team. And when you 355 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,960 look at. I mean, we're not like we're not talking 356 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,759 about these other teams. There's a lot of other good 357 00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:23,679 teams in the West as far as I'm concerned, like 358 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,720 the top six or seven spots just might already be 359 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:27,360 spoken for. 360 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, I kind of I feel like, so I'm 361 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,440 gonna throw you a curveball because I did update my 362 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,519 tiers without telling you that I have two more teams 363 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,559 in the same tier. Uh. And they they line up 364 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,480 with the Suns in that like they're real NBA players 365 00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:45,320 on the roster. There's some upside, but there's like a 366 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:49,440 sense of hopelessness that sort of like just like wingers 367 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,320 is like hanging over them. That just feels like they 368 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,279 belong here. So I'm gonna nominate another team. I'm gonna nominate. Uh, 369 00:15:56,399 --> 00:15:59,159 let's see which of the two to A. I'll give 370 00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,399 you the one you expect, which is the Sacramento Kings. 371 00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: I I'm actually excited that you made some changes because 372 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,080 I feel like I was gonna have to use one of. 373 00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: My vetos with the way you had some stuff. This 374 00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:10,879 was from behind in the sell. 375 00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:14,799 Speaker 1: They're fucked. Only winner is Booker. We can cars around 376 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,080 these parts. You don't need to bleep out any of 377 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:16,799 the vowels just. 378 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,519 Speaker 2: To make it to make a child for them. 379 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: Uh So, the Kings just like, unless you're a real 380 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,679 big believer in Dennis Shrewder nine teams in twelve years 381 00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:30,879 as just a high end starter. They don't have a 382 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:34,399 point guard. They can use Malik Monk. They can hope Devin. 383 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 4: Carter develops there. 384 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,039 Speaker 3: They can run more stuff through Sabonis. But Sabonis is 385 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,799 going to be overtaxed again because they trade away Yonas Valanciunas, 386 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:44,200 and he was like the first decent backup center they'd 387 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,440 had in a long time. So other than Keegan Murray, 388 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,799 we don't love the Wings. I guess Kean Ellis qualifies. 389 00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:51,759 Speaker 2: But they're just looking good. 390 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean I think I think they're a good 391 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600 bet to be a high thirties win maybe, But there's 392 00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:05,799 real downside here if the Sabonish, I don't know, per 393 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,359 potential dissatisfaction comes to a head, because then you're just 394 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,279 a totally identity identity list team. If Sabonis isn't on 395 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,559 this team. Uh So, yeah, I just don't see a 396 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,000 ton of upside. We haven't even mentioned DeRozan and Levine. 397 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:25,160 But those guys are just they are why a team 398 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,319 like the Kings and formally the Bulls are just capped 399 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,880 at a certain level. And so uh, I think you 400 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:37,440 price in the significant downsides here, the sort of nonsensical ownership, management, 401 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,640 coaching situation, and it's just it's easier to see this 402 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,119 going real bad than real good. 403 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: I guess is where I don't you keep looking at 404 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,240 their roster and find yourself thinking there's no way their 405 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:50,400 offseason can be done. 406 00:17:50,759 --> 00:17:52,079 Speaker 2: That's That's where I'm att with it. 407 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: You talk about not being able to get past Phoenix's moves, 408 00:17:55,319 --> 00:17:58,960 I can't get past like Sacramento's lack of moves other 409 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:02,240 than Denis Shrewder. It just doesn't what is the theory 410 00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:05,799 of this team? And I think you know, we can 411 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,720 sit here and criticize them as we should, or at 412 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:09,599 least say like I don't know that they belong and 413 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,240 like you could probably yeah, you could talk yourself and 414 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:13,559 it be like, oh, hey, should they be in the 415 00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:15,920 CETI are awesome, That's not like, that's not where you 416 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,200 want to be when you have Zach Lavine and Domas 417 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,640 Sabonis making like almost one hundred million dollars together. 418 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,759 Speaker 2: So I don't. I don't. 419 00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: This is another team where I don't understand the theory 420 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,720 of what it's supposed to look like. And I think 421 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:33,079 that because you have a bunch of good secondary creators, 422 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,000 like you know, this is like a really bad landing 423 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,200 spot for Dennis shooter act actually because I think that 424 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,559 he's better if he can have the ball and there's 425 00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:41,640 gonna be everyone to go play off of him with 426 00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:44,720 like the Rosan and then Levine playing off of him. Okay, fine, 427 00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:47,319 but like there's some interplay between him and Sibonis, but 428 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,839 sure is not the best shooter and the King's just 429 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,200 like not a lot of intuitive guys away like of 430 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,759 their primaries away from the ball, not as as seamless 431 00:18:54,759 --> 00:18:56,559 a fit as it was next to Kate Cunningham on 432 00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:59,759 a team that didn't have j and Ivy. So but 433 00:18:59,799 --> 00:19:01,440 I also so I sit here and I look at 434 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,680 it and like they deserve all the criticism because they 435 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,599 put themselves here. I don't know what they do, Like 436 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,880 we could sit here. It's not just like they could 437 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,839 maybe need Clifford Pops. You still have Keon Ellis, Like 438 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,599 you could talk me into them needing a wing in 439 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,000 addition to a point guard, they still need a backup five. 440 00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 2: Like, that's too many needs for July eighteenth. As we're 441 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,519 recording this. 442 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,599 Speaker 3: It's too many needs and it's the number of needs 443 00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:28,640 and the severity of those needs is made worse by 444 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,440 the questions you have to ask about. Like they're like 445 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,799 the pillars here, Like I mean, Demarta Rosen has defied 446 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,039 aging forever. This is gonna be his age thirty six season, 447 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,559 and he's you know, I don't know that he's making 448 00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:42,079 anybody better. And zach Lavine comes with all the defensive 449 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,039 questions and he's that you mentioned like not a lot 450 00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:47,400 of intuitive passers, Like, yeah, that's that's zach Lavine. That's 451 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,119 like point bullet point number two on the scouting report. 452 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,440 Probably you know, I like Malik Monk, but I like 453 00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:55,759 him as a six man, and. 454 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: I forgot about him while we were talking a lot. 455 00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: And right like Sibonis gets the numbers. My my stance 456 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:04,960 on Sabonis is well documented. 457 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: I just like, carry on, poor Kean Murray, poor guy. 458 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: Uh, It's it's tough, okay. 459 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,519 Speaker 1: So is there some like an maybe even archetype of player, 460 00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:20,039 if you have a name, where'd be like, Oh, they 461 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,799 went out and got that kind of player, you'd feel 462 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,359 a little bit better about bumping them up to because 463 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,559 if you get into the Sea Tier in the Western Conference, 464 00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:30,480 you're probably fringe top six at that point, right, or 465 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:32,519 at least have a case to get in there. 466 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, there's a big chunk of teams we're 467 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,119 gonna get to in the Sea tier that. 468 00:20:38,079 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: What do you like, Oh, you know, I'm sorry, this 469 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:42,440 is what do you think of them being linked to 470 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,599 Jonathan kaminga What do you think of that fit? 471 00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 3: It feels on brand and kind of a lot of 472 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:53,960 the worst ways to me, just because he like him 473 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,640 with DeRozan and Levine is just like get you're gonna 474 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,920 that offense is just gonna be so bereft of like 475 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,279 good cutting and off ball stuff, and like the help 476 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,000 defense on that team will just be abysmal. Like he 477 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,319 I get it from the stance of like this, he's 478 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,680 kind of a by low maybe and like you should 479 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,440 take a shot on him. He's still very young. If 480 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,240 you're a team like the Kings that just doesn't really 481 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:19,720 have a young guy you could project forward as a 482 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,599 as a high end starter or Murray's probably that or 483 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,440 as a star. But he just doesn't address a single 484 00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:29,640 thing that that they you know that that's wrong with 485 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,759 the roster other than like positionally, I guess like his body, 486 00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:36,200 his body type, his frame is like, yeah, it'd be 487 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,839 good to have here, But in terms of how he 488 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,079 actually plays, I just don't see that helping at all. 489 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 2: I think he off you skate. 490 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,839 Speaker 1: If you're worried about Kegan Murray's place in the offense now, 491 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,240 I think that he would only come like presumably Malik 492 00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:48,920 Monk would be going out as part of a sign 493 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:49,200 and trade. 494 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 2: But I don't I really think that this. 495 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word ruins, But like 496 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,240 if you were hoping for Keigan Murray to make strides 497 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,680 on the offensive end, I think adding Johnathan Kaminga onto 498 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,680 a team with that'll still have to Roseen Leven and 499 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:01,960 I just use a bonus as someone who can elevate 500 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,599 the play of other stuff. But like just all of 501 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:05,720 those guys together, Chigan Murray's role is going to become 502 00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:07,240 even more opaque. 503 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,559 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, if you wanted to, I would be 504 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,519 more amenable to Kaminga on the Kings if DeRozan and 505 00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:16,799 Levigne weren't there, and then you could be like, let's 506 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:21,079 just see what Murray and Kaminga can be as like 507 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,839 these are our big these are our combo forwards going forward. 508 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,440 We'll put the ball in Kaminga's hands and just kind 509 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,519 of see what happens, and then maybe Murray moves. You know, 510 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,880 isn't so far down the pecking order just because you've 511 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,839 gotten rid of a couple of high usage scorers. So 512 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,200 uh yeah, both Yeah, insert more stake pulls west. 513 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: That's what it is they have to trade for. 514 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,799 Speaker 2: What do they get this year? Though? Is it going 515 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,960 to be Patrick Williams or Nicola Vucevic? 516 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe they figure out a way to fire 517 00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:48,319 an offer sheet at Josh Giddy and. 518 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: Just great call from Zach Holland said, didn't Sabona say 519 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:53,960 something about wanting a point guard? 520 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,759 Speaker 2: Fuck that, let's over baber Kaminga. That is like what 521 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:57,920 he asked for, right. 522 00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,759 Speaker 1: He did mention that they needed a point guard and 523 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:03,039 that like den I guess Dennis Shruter is a point guard, 524 00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:05,359 but it's just I don't know, I don't trust him 525 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,559 to run your half court offense. 526 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: Against like really good defenses and. 527 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: Just his mindset sometimes if like there's gonna be a 528 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,960 ton of I think overlap in Sacramento. And I'm not 529 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,599 saying go out and go all in on a point, 530 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:20,519 but I just they have a bunch of to me, 531 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,160 there's aside from some bonus, is still their best playmaker 532 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,599 to me, and it's not even close. They don't have 533 00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,119 any from the perimeter spots. Do they even have, Like 534 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,720 that's probably an insult. In Martin Ros they have like 535 00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:35,640 maybe one B plus passer from like there's no A 536 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,759 passers in the perimeter spots right now. 537 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 3: No, I mean monk Monk had a moment there where 538 00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:42,400 I think he had a great, like a super high 539 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,680 assist rate on drives and he was just piling that 540 00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,839 up playing crunch time minutes. That might have been two 541 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,200 years ago now I can't even remember. But yeah, he's 542 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,240 not He's not the guy that's like, I mean, we're 543 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,599 spoiled seeing guys like Haliburton in the playoffs, but the 544 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,720 guy like manipulating the defense to make like the wrong 545 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,599 pass the right one, like he's monk Unk will beat 546 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440 his guy and see the strong side corner shooter open, 547 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,960 but or like maybe a drop off pass to the roller. 548 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,079 But like he's not. He's not like a bend the 549 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,359 defense with your brain kind of pastor, and those guys 550 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,960 are rare. But the Kings definitely don't have. 551 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,039 Speaker 1: So the final team here, can I take a guess 552 00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:16,759 as to who you have and then who I was 553 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,079 going to advocate to be here? Yes, it is the 554 00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:21,920 Pelicans and they should be at the bottom of this tier. 555 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,599 Speaker 3: I have no argument against that. Well, here's the argument. 556 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: You can be an argument for having them up a 557 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,039 tier like you initially did. 558 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,839 Speaker 3: No. Well, yeah, so the argument for either moving them 559 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,680 to the top of this tier, which doesn't really matter, 560 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:41,319 or having them up one is essentially like, there's a 561 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,359 healthy version of this team whose offense is like pretty awesome. 562 00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:50,240 If like somehow Jordan Poole and Trey Murphy and Zion 563 00:24:50,319 --> 00:24:52,799 like work well together, there's a lot of punch there. 564 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,240 And then if Herb Jones is healthy, maybe you get 565 00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,119 some defense. We don't love the center position because Kevon 566 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,599 Looney and Zion or or I just don't see how 567 00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:04,279 that works. And then Eve mecI is a nice player, 568 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:08,160 but I just I'm not seeing him being a massive offensive. Plus, 569 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:11,640 you're not gonna have the Jon Saint Murray for I 570 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,000 don't know, do we have reports on that most of 571 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:14,279 the year. 572 00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:15,799 Speaker 1: Probably, I mean I think, well, and yeah, they have 573 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:17,880 no in they have no incentive to be worse. So 574 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,400 if he's ready to come back, you might as well 575 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:19,880 bring him. 576 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 3: Back, right, So that's part of That's the other part 577 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,759 of the argument is they did trade that pickaway and 578 00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,200 what I think everyone agrees was the stupidest. 579 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,079 Speaker 1: Movie, which is, can I say one thing about that? 580 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240 There's no reason to steer into right, you're correct, and 581 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:31,680 I think it. 582 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,279 Speaker 2: Was a terrible move. 583 00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: Still, it's a bummer because just as someone who doesn't 584 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,880 cover the draft guys much until they come out of 585 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,519 the draft, I think Derek Queen is going to be fantastic, 586 00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:41,960 But I don't know what he needs to be out 587 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,920 of the gate for that trade to make any sort 588 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,920 of sense. Still, which is, and I also don't, to 589 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,000 kind of add to what you were saying, I don't 590 00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:52,599 know what the theory of him and Zion together is, 591 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,240 and like, you can't play two of them with a 592 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,880 like unless there's a floor stretching big there that they 593 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,359 haven't acquired yet, like that, what does the defense look 594 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,640 like if it's Zion on and Derek Queen as your 595 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,839 front court so to have like what might be your 596 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,440 best prospect now because Trey Murphy's graduated from. 597 00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 2: The prospect uh, and yeah, he's just the right and. 598 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: Like I officially I view Derek Queen as the higher 599 00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:16,599 end prospect than Jeremiah Fears, which is funny because just 600 00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:21,039 where they were drafted, Like if your best most important 601 00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:23,440 prospect doesn't fit with your best player, I don't I 602 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,279 don't know how to square all that away. And maybe 603 00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:27,359 there's just maybe there are things Willie Green and the 604 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,440 Pelicans will do that I just can't envision right now. 605 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,599 But I was kind of surprised that you because presumably 606 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,960 unless you you know what honestly would have been the 607 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,960 most I thought this was the case you were gonna make, 608 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,720 because I tried to sit here and think about, well, 609 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,799 what what is he thinking here? Was I thought you 610 00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:42,759 were gonna say, well, they're just not gonna play Jeremiah 611 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:45,559 Fears and Derek Queen that much, because that might be 612 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,519 the pathway to that because rookies just go through growing pains, 613 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:51,640 and just you have Jordan Poole, so there's like some him. 614 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:53,559 Speaker 2: And Jeremiah Fears together can be weird. I assume you're 615 00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:55,240 not gonna play them together. 616 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,519 Speaker 1: All that much, so I don't like there's a chance. 617 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,759 I think the Pelicans are probably gonna be closer by 618 00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:02,400 the end of the season to the Jazz is tier. 619 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: Then they won't be to tearc. 620 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,599 Speaker 3: Totally totally on the table. Like if Zion misses time, 621 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,240 which we should say when he misses time, they're going 622 00:27:10,319 --> 00:27:13,119 to be drawing dead most nights. So yeah, like the 623 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:20,359 downside is jazz level probably also, just like you sort 624 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,599 of now there's the wild card of like what what 625 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:26,079 else might this front office do? You know, like what 626 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,640 Welch Troy Reavers had interested in the past, and that 627 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,319 could probably like we'll figure figure it out. Yeah, So 628 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,880 just to jump back to the Queen, it sucks whenever 629 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920 a player is in the position Derek Queen is in 630 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,960 where it's like, well, you have to justify some guys 631 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,759 in suits, dumb decision. You didn't ask for this, but 632 00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:47,640 here you are. I think even if he is, like 633 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,720 if he's the best player in this draft class, I'm 634 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:54,119 still not going to give the Pelicans a pass because 635 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,480 you just take him over Jeremiah Fears. They they broadcast 636 00:27:57,519 --> 00:27:59,440 that we think Jeremiah Fears is a bet, so you 637 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,440 better prospect. We took him six spots ahead of Derek Queen, 638 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:06,559 so like you don't get to say, oh, we knew 639 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,640 Queen was this all along? No, you like you liked 640 00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:12,559 him clearly because you traded stupid stuff to move up, 641 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:13,839 but ten spots. 642 00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: If Derek Queen becomes great, it's so funny too. It 643 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,799 wasn't just like an extra pick ten spots. 644 00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 4: It was to move up ten spots. 645 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 3: Take take Queen where you took Fears if you think 646 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,039 he's that great, and hold on to that twenty six first, 647 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,319 and maybe Fears falls to you and maybe you can 648 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,880 give up less to get Fears at thirteen or whatever, 649 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,400 like you. 650 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:30,799 Speaker 2: Know what I mean. 651 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 4: Like it, Even if Queen is great. 652 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:35,079 Speaker 3: That's not gonna absolve the Pelicans to me, because they 653 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,160 could have just drafted him and not given up the pick. Yeah, anyway, 654 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,000 color me concerned about Jeremiah Fears hitting threes after what 655 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:42,839 I've seen in Summer League too. I know it's like 656 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,119 the so better passer than iakad division, so that might 657 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,759 be fun for them. I what is, what's the number 658 00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:52,640 of games Zion would have to play in for you 659 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,359 to be like, oh, this team is gonna be a 660 00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:56,440 lot better than expected, is it. 661 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,799 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna throw a number at you. I'm gonna say, 662 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,160 Zion plays in sixty. 663 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,079 Speaker 3: I was gonna say sixty five. So we're in the 664 00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:08,799 same neighborhood. Like yeah, if he if he's healthy and 665 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,319 is playing, you know, near the level where he's played 666 00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:15,079 when healthy in the past, for that many games, that's 667 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:17,759 when the offense is just gonna be very good, right 668 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,119 like when he's on the floor, he's demonstrated that that's 669 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:25,319 what happens if he's healthy and consistently performing well. I 670 00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:27,240 don't know what i'd put my actual over under on 671 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:29,759 games played for him is. And then that even presupposes 672 00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:32,680 that you're not having injury issues elsewhere, which like given 673 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:37,759 what we know about like how this organization has handled injuries, 674 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,079 and it's like staffing, like this is one of the 675 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:44,279 teams you might actually want to expect like worse injury 676 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,599 luck than than even Trey Murphy's unmanned. 677 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: Up a lot. That's it, by the way, That's the 678 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:49,400 other thing. 679 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,079 Speaker 1: And I still have hoped that, but like I wanted 680 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:52,759 to see more of Trey Murphy on the ball. 681 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: And now I look at this roster with Zion. 682 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,759 Speaker 1: And Queen and Jordan Poole and Jeremiah Fears, and I'm like, 683 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,240 all right, so probably not. 684 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: I guess probably not. 685 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, So that I that ends this tier 686 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,680 for me, unless you had somebody else that you want, 687 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:08,920 that you want to excited. 688 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: And my veto was coming for the pen and I 689 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:12,480 was gonna know that I was gonna regret at that early. 690 00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:14,160 So I'm ready to move on to your You have 691 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,079 the first pick in Tears. 692 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: All right, let's so there's like I almost wanted to 693 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,480 mess with I did mess with this one. Actually I 694 00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:23,759 moved somebody higher out of it. Uh, let's go with 695 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,880 the Blazers here. They're not necessarily the top team in 696 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,759 this year. We can sort of move things around if 697 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:32,039 we want to. Actually, they're I think they're definitely not 698 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:35,079 the top team in this year, but close enough. Uh. 699 00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:38,599 That's the idea of Tears, so uh ambitious going and 700 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,680 getting Drew Holliday, Uh, trading a younger, cheaper guy in 701 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,519 Anthony Simons for him. Uh Holiday, I think that move 702 00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:49,160 to me mirrored And I've written this several times. The 703 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,160 it's not like a one to one comparison obviously, but 704 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,319 the move to give up the pick that became Bub 705 00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:58,599 Carrington for Danny Avdia. It's like, oh, you guys, are 706 00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:01,240 you maybe think you're a little farther along than you 707 00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:03,480 are And then they go on or run late last 708 00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:05,880 year so maybe they were. 709 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 2: Like the first twenty one or whatever games or so. 710 00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:15,359 Speaker 3: Adia was awesome down the stretch, so validated there. I'd 711 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:15,920 rather have. 712 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,079 Speaker 4: Danny Avdia, I think, than Bub Carrington. 713 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,119 Speaker 3: I'm ovidyapilled though, so whatever. Yeah, pels off season throwing spaghetti. 714 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:23,839 Speaker 2: Have you ever done that? 715 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, to see if it sticks? 716 00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 2: Really, so I should try. 717 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,359 Speaker 1: I don't really eat pasta, but you're does it work with? 718 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,559 It has to be spaghetti. 719 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: I guess there canna be any pasta I think you. 720 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 3: I think the spaghetti probably sticks better than like, I 721 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,599 don't know, a ravioli. 722 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: There's like cheese, because I'm throwing the ravioli at it. Okay. 723 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,799 Speaker 3: There's also other ways to tell if your pasta is 724 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:49,519 done that don't involve no I want. 725 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: I want to try this now? 726 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 727 00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: Do it? 728 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 3: Pelicans are doing it? 729 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. 730 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 3: I like the Blazers a lot, and I think a 731 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,640 lot hinges on how much better or to shade and 732 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,279 sharp get clinging? Uh, it's too moni kamaraw Really this 733 00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:07,480 guy if he is like man, you're you're set at 734 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,319 forwards with him in obvia and just is Scoot gonna 735 00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:15,359 take another step? I think there's enough reasons to expect 736 00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:20,000 improvement in house plus you at holiday. Uh that like 737 00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,920 this is the Blazers and the teams in this tier 738 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,559 are very much like I don't expect the top six finish, 739 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,039 but like that's that's on the table if everything breaks 740 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,039 right and you get you know, some bad luck for 741 00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:33,920 a couple of other teams, do you guess? 742 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,759 Speaker 1: And so some things that I would add to the 743 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,559 So the I'm all over on the pronunciation. I like 744 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,759 that they're trying to call him young handsome for Yon Hansom. 745 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah I heard that. 746 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 4: So that's my favorite. 747 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,559 Speaker 2: That's hansomes are great. 748 00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that there's room just for sint We're 749 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:53,359 really going off the rails. Thank you Blazers for a 750 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,000 couple of tangents. Uh, they like should the syntax be 751 00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,160 young and handsome or should it just be young handsome? 752 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,119 Speaker 3: Young handsome? It's like it's like a cool It's like 753 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,160 young Jezy, except it's young handsome. It's like, that's a 754 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:06,799 great rap. 755 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: He's really like watching him. 756 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,279 Speaker 1: It's just like what if Zach Edy was Doma Sabonis. 757 00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,960 That's the vibes I get from him. I know everyone's 758 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,079 to compare him to Yo Kitchen. 759 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: I just don't like. 760 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: That's just yeah, feels like a little too that's just 761 00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:20,599 a little too far. I feel like, what if Zach 762 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,720 Edy was Doma Sabonis is like totally fair. 763 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: That's not increasing expectations. 764 00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: What's interesting about this team is I could see it 765 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,279 going in either direction because like there's a chance of 766 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,160 just not as good last year, especially if some of 767 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,960 the West is just like healthier, Like even if it's 768 00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:38,799 just oh there's not there's not a different maybe top 769 00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:40,960 six or eight, but it's also those top six are 770 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,720 eight could just be a lot better than they were 771 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:45,000 last year. When you look at Denver, maybe Minnesota gets 772 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,480 a little bit of Houston is certainly somehow better after 773 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,839 finishing second last year. Memphis could be healthier. I think 774 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,079 the defense should still be pretty terrifying. That what I also, 775 00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:57,960 I'm a big believer in Tamani Kamara the defense with him, 776 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,599 Denny Avia, Donovan Klinging, having a bunch of those guys. 777 00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:03,559 I'm also looking at this roster though, and like my 778 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,319 got we know where some of the shooting's gonna come 779 00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,920 from in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven thanks to 780 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,239 Dame coming back. I'd like that's another thing that kind 781 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,920 of telegraphs even if you think the Blazers are okay, 782 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,480 not being great this year, like you now now you've decided, oh, 783 00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:21,880 we're gonna be really good assuming Dame is there by 784 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,320 twenty twenty six, Zach says in the chat, I think 785 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,679 this Blazer's team showed last year. 786 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: Uh and we showed flashes last year. 787 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,599 Speaker 1: We do not think they get anything out of an 788 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,519 injured and rehabilitation Damien hanging around out the facilities. 789 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 2: I you know what, this is what I was gonna 790 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,400 bring up. What does this say. 791 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,679 Speaker 1: About how they feel about Scoot. I'm not saying they're 792 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,639 gonna turn around and trade him right now, but you 793 00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,840 already have Denny Avvias soaking up touches. Scoot has spent 794 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,599 most of his first two years coming off the bench 795 00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:51,280 and is like, let's assume that Damian Lillard's going to 796 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,840 play for this he has a no trade clause. 797 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 2: Let's assume he's going to play for this team in 798 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,519 twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven. 799 00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: Is the vision playing him starting him Afdia, Scoot and 800 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:04,960 Shandon Sharp or one in Shandon Sharp of and Scoot 801 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,599 or Dame like is one of them coming off the bench? 802 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,119 Are you moving Shandon Sharp or Scoot Henderson at that point. 803 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,039 There's a lot of complexities here, and they're also by 804 00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:15,920 the way, I think the Dame deal as of now 805 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,679 takes them into the tax and so I'm looking at 806 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:20,320 this team like, well, what's the next move they're gonna make. 807 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,559 Are they gonna dump Matisse Thible somehow? Are they gonna 808 00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:26,800 get rid of Jeremy Grant. What I'm most encouraged by, though, 809 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,760 is that the reason they were good last year is 810 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,360 the young players, or they're let's say the bigger picture players, 811 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,079 because not all of them are super young. It wasn't 812 00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:39,039 because oh, DeAndre Ayton was balling, or like, look at 813 00:35:39,039 --> 00:35:41,320 what Jeremy Grant like couldn't hit a two pointer to 814 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,880 save his life at one point. 815 00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: So that's super encouraging. I don't. 816 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: I still don't understand, like what philosophy Chauncey Phillips runs 817 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,960 on the offensive side of the ball. And to finish 818 00:35:53,079 --> 00:35:56,119 with my opening point was, well, like, where's the shooting 819 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,440 coming from on this roster? 820 00:35:58,599 --> 00:35:59,079 Speaker 2: This season? 821 00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: You got going from Anthony Simon's to Drew Holliday, who 822 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,639 that's the other name too, is would you even bet 823 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,559 on Drew Holliday finishing the season on this roster if 824 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:09,840 you know that Dame is in the pipeline? I think 825 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,000 that's a really good story. It just adds layers of 826 00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:15,559 complexity and pressure to some of the developmental projects going 827 00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:15,960 on here. 828 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that the Dame 829 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,480 thing is just like, from a sentimental standpoint, I'm one 830 00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,039 hundred percent on board. And my first thought when it 831 00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:26,760 happened was basically like, oh, I wonder if this is 832 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,880 him conceding that these are going to be the last 833 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,360 three years of his career and he just wants to 834 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,239 finish them in a place that he loves, and maybe 835 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,599 he's not gonna play much at all because he's gonna 836 00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:41,440 miss all of this year. He's gonna be a year 837 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,760 older and probably not fully recovered from the Achilles the 838 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,559 year after that. 839 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 4: And so like, I think you have to think. 840 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,199 Speaker 3: I think it's right to ask the question about, like 841 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,880 down the line, are we just getting in the way 842 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,800 of Scoot, like just because Dame it's Damian Lillard and 843 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,800 we have to start him and play him a bunch. 844 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,159 I guess I'm just I'm not that concerned with this 845 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,480 yet because we're talking about something that's over a year 846 00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:05,920 away and knows what this roster will look like by then. 847 00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:09,000 I just think the defense is gonna be awesome. The 848 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:11,159 shooting is a problem, Like Sharp has to be better, 849 00:37:11,199 --> 00:37:13,239 Scoot has to be better, Avdia and Kamara I have 850 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,800 to be better or at least more consistent. But but 851 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,280 I I think I just like the idea. I feel 852 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,880 stable with this team because I think the defense is 853 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,239 just gonna be good and then the offense probably not, 854 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,519 but I don't know there's upside. So it's I was 855 00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:30,519 kind of struck by how much I like this team 856 00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:32,719 and how low down in the tiers we have it. 857 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,519 You know that that just speaks to the west. 858 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: Side, yes, as star Velly says, and that I really 859 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,719 hope they find success with Day would be a great story. 860 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,639 Speaker 2: I mean, they're just sup. They're super interesting both this 861 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,800 season and moving forward. 862 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: It's with or without him. I just I haven't looked 863 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,800 at win totals. I know they're released, and you and 864 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,960 I don't typically do those until just before the season starts. Like, 865 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,400 if you had to pick right now, like what would 866 00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:56,760 like what do you view this team ceiling as? Assuming 867 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760 there's no other It feels like there's gonna be maybe 868 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,440 some bookkeeping moves or all though, maybe able to flip 869 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,320 mattistaible for a shooter or Jeremy Grant into someone who's 870 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,480 more of a shooter. I don't know, but it doesn't 871 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,159 feel like there's gonna be anything monumental happening. 872 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 3: Here, right. I think the steiling can't be like fifty, 873 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,679 but I think mid to high forties is possible. Like you, 874 00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:22,920 you know, the Rockets are an imperfect comparison, but a 875 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:27,639 jump similar to that like just happened. That jump just happened. 876 00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:29,559 So I think it's it's okay to say, like, well, 877 00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,119 maybe the Blazers might be the team that has enjoys 878 00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:37,039 a similar leap. I don't know. I yeah, I think 879 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:38,760 we've went into this saying like I don't know, if 880 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,199 they're the sixth seed, that's that's not a crazy it's surprising, 881 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,679 but it's not totally unforeseeable if a few things break 882 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,480 in their favor. 883 00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: Next team I'm gonna go with, and I'm going to 884 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,760 put them in front of the Blazers. 885 00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:52,159 Speaker 2: I have the Lakers. 886 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,679 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of them, and I 887 00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:57,119 think some people have been critical of what we've said 888 00:38:57,119 --> 00:38:59,440 where we've we've been critical of their offseason. I still 889 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,119 don't love it. Where they asked, well, what were they 890 00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:04,199 supposed to do? And my general response has been, will 891 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,000 not let Dori and Veinny Smith walk for nothing on 892 00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:09,719 a deal that fits with your twenty twenty seven capspace plans. 893 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:12,639 Maybe he just wanted to leave, though, Is there any 894 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,840 chance that were over indexing on they didn't make this 895 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,480 big splash and under indexing on like Luca will probably 896 00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,039 be better because he just wasn't Luca last season? 897 00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 2: And that are we somehow too low? Are the Lakers 898 00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:25,559 somehow underrated? 899 00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 3: Grant Dan, I'm gonna exercise my veto in answer to 900 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,920 your question, and I'm gonna move the Lakers up. 901 00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:35,119 Speaker 2: But oh, I did not see that coming. 902 00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:38,119 Speaker 4: You're such a Homer, sorry to burn it. 903 00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:41,559 Speaker 3: That was my other change. I had them down in 904 00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,119 this same tier with the Blazers and what will now 905 00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,320 be three other teams. I think here's here's the case. 906 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,559 You laid out a lot of it. They won fifty 907 00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:53,239 games last year. You could argue that the additions of 908 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,000 DeAndre Ayton and Jake Lauravia. 909 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 4: In fact, I will just say I think it's I 910 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,320 think there. 911 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 3: I think I believe that the editions of Ayton and 912 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,599 la Ravia could offset uh Dorian Finney Smith's departure. You like, 913 00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:09,920 that's on balance, that might be a talent upgrade, especially 914 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,719 since the guy Ayton is replacing Jackson Hayes, who's back 915 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:17,119 was just like awful, unplayable, so and Ayden. We don't 916 00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:20,760 love Ayton, but like, I think I think he's better 917 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,559 than Jackson Hayes and and maybe better in ways that 918 00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:27,320 really do get maximized by Luka Doncic, who, like, I'm 919 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:32,159 real uncomfortable making this prediction, but I gotta believe that 920 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,679 this year, at least he has to listen to all 921 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,880 the criticism and take to heart the reasons that Dallas 922 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,079 traded him. He's got to have a great year. I 923 00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:46,599 just like, doesn't that seem likely if and if he doesn't, 924 00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:48,840 then we got to just cut bait. 925 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you're not motivated now, I mean. 926 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,599 Speaker 3: That just just turns upside down everything I thought about 927 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:01,880 the league. So and I think it's really like I 928 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,480 forgot they won so many games last year with a 929 00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:09,039 major in season trade Luca not being very good. So 930 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,400 I think I think I have them in a tier 931 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,360 that I'm more comfortable with one up. So did any 932 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,320 of that make a dent? Because you were gonna at 933 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,239 least put them ahead of the Blazers in that tier, 934 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,039 so you clearly don't think they're the worst team in 935 00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:22,360 the tier. 936 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,199 Speaker 1: So were we to Vito the Veto, No, No, I 937 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,079 won't do that because I just feel like that's not 938 00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:30,800 because then we're just out of Vitos for the rest 939 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:30,920 of it. 940 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 2: But I also I see what you're saying. I guess 941 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,039 am I reading too much into like what's going on 942 00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:39,000 with Lebron here. And I still don't like the offense should. 943 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,079 Speaker 1: Just be flames because look at the way ruiy Hachima 944 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,679 has shot the ball. You Austin Reeves improved a lot 945 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,840 both on and away from the ball, Lebron is still man. 946 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,239 I found the responses to some of the trade packages 947 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,039 we came up with sort of hysterical, where, Okay, we 948 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,000 might have been a little over ambitious with some of them, 949 00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:56,320 but Lebron just made second team. 950 00:41:56,159 --> 00:42:00,159 Speaker 2: All NBA, Like where like what wait? Like, that's why 951 00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:01,079 you give up stuff is to. 952 00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: Get a player like that out here on a media timeline, 953 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,880 the pairing with him and Luca can be more intuitive. 954 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,079 I don't buy into, oh, maybe he wasn't thrilled with 955 00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,719 it becoming a lot more Luca heliocentric. I honestly don't 956 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,440 believe that the on court stuff is Lebron's issue. So 957 00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,639 much is the off court power that he has to 958 00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:21,199 forfeit and Luca's not taking. Like I don't think he 959 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,199 blames Luca for that. If anything, it's an organizational thing. 960 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:26,559 I do find it funny that his camp is kind 961 00:42:26,559 --> 00:42:28,400 of like, whoa, why would anyone think that he's asking 962 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,000 to be traded? 963 00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:29,280 Speaker 2: Uh? 964 00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:32,039 Speaker 1: Because you send out a thanks for the Memory's post 965 00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:34,079 after he opted in to a contract. 966 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 2: That's why. So I'm just I'm like, I don't know 967 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:39,800 how to feel about this team. 968 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: You can talk to me and they have like a 969 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,199 lot of good players, but they still feel so I 970 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,440 think one of the things you. 971 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: Have to buy into is. 972 00:42:49,519 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: Is DeAndre Ayton gonna have some type of renaissance just 973 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,159 because he's playing alongside people that I can get because 974 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,440 last year in Portland was just they didn't have the 975 00:42:57,519 --> 00:42:59,559 guard play the playmaking to put their. 976 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 2: Bigs and advantageous positions. 977 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: DeAndre, like DeAndre now has that, but also I know 978 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,840 people like oh lomb threat and like he can be that, 979 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,760 but like he's also likes to play inexplicably below the rim. 980 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,719 Is how it's not someone who needs to be groundbound. 981 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,519 It's just someone who likes like Luca might toss him 982 00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:19,079 a lob, He'll come down and catch it and then 983 00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:22,239 fade out into like like a twelve twelve foot turnaround. 984 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:28,239 So I just man, I'm I well, Miles Johnson says, 985 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,239 I'm so over the Lakers discourse. They lost in five 986 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,079 games in the first round and back to back seasons. 987 00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:33,119 Speaker 2: That still puts them in. 988 00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:34,760 Speaker 1: The conversation as one of the eight best teams of 989 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,000 the conference though, so they could be in the what 990 00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,400 is this the B tier? So we're talking about them 991 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,000 before we get to the B tier, which is weird. 992 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,280 We probably should have left it. I see, I see 993 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,239 your case. I just feel like when I look at 994 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,960 the roster, too much of it has to go right 995 00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,280 for like, like they their margin for would you agree 996 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,760 that their margin for error is super thin here? And 997 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,679 they're still there's they still don't like who's their best 998 00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:59,519 two way player? 999 00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:05,519 Speaker 3: Uh, it's probably isn't it just Lebron? Like if you're 1000 00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:08,760 talking about like when he's fully engaged, maybe. 1001 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,519 Speaker 2: And that's like sort of a problem. 1002 00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:14,159 Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean second team All NBA though you 1003 00:44:14,199 --> 00:44:16,679 said it like that, you know, if that's your second 1004 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,360 best player. So I just I was trying to really 1005 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,519 what it came down to for me is is and 1006 00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:25,760 And yet Miles is correct to ask because I was 1007 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,039 about to say, Uh, he's asking how many teams in 1008 00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:31,119 the West have a worst bench than the Lakers? Not many? 1009 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,079 The starters though, if you go Reeves, Luca, Hachimura, Lebron 1010 00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,679 and eight and like, that's pretty good. Like you, there's 1011 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,360 enough of kind of everything there except for a wing stopper. 1012 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:41,519 Finny Smith would have been nice. 1013 00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:44,599 Speaker 2: Hey they had him, did you know that that role? Right? 1014 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe could they look into getting him don't you 1015 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,760 think it's possible too that like between Vanderbilt Vincent Kaliba 1016 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,159 La Revia, there's one or two guys that emerges reliable 1017 00:44:56,159 --> 00:44:58,119 bench players, and then you're just looking for an eighth man. 1018 00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 4: You know, I don't think it's. 1019 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,679 Speaker 2: Five years ago, like I'd probably feel a lot better 1020 00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:03,199 about Sure. 1021 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're past that. Uh, I was gonna say before 1022 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,239 we move on, I just thought that the Lakers fit 1023 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,960 better next to the teams I have in that B tier, 1024 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,039 which we will get to eventually. Then it then they 1025 00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:18,519 did with the other which there'll be a total of 1026 00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:20,440 four now in the C tier. 1027 00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:22,199 Speaker 4: So you bump I'm. 1028 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:22,760 Speaker 3: Gonna throw im. 1029 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 2: Sorry you were talking about the See I didn't bump them. 1030 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 3: I bumped the Pelicans down and the Lakers up. 1031 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,280 Speaker 1: Basically, I thought you were saying you had four teams 1032 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,320 to be, which would have meant that you added another 1033 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:31,800 team to be. 1034 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 2: So I was fascinated. Who that was? No? 1035 00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 3: Just three? Just three? And b uh So to get 1036 00:45:36,039 --> 00:45:38,559 back to C, we have the Blazers there, I'm gonna 1037 00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:42,480 throw the Spurs as another team in that tier. 1038 00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:45,199 Speaker 4: Have to acknowledge, Uh do it? 1039 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 3: Yes? I do have them a head of the Blazers 1040 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,719 for what it's worth, it's when Min Yama, it's Deerren Fox. 1041 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,679 I think maybe has now become underrated. We've we've really 1042 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,599 swung back and forth a lot there. I don't know, 1043 00:45:56,639 --> 00:46:01,039 maybe he's properly rated, but I think if the basics 1044 00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:02,480 of it are, if wom Minyamba is one of the 1045 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,440 five best players in the league, which I think you 1046 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,599 could argue that he was until he got hurt, he 1047 00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:09,000 was on a lot of first team All NBA ballots, 1048 00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,119 or at least in consideration maybe the first cut to 1049 00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:14,239 the second team. Then not a lot else has to 1050 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,599 go right for them to at least belong in this 1051 00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:19,480 tier and maybe have a reason to move up. So 1052 00:46:20,039 --> 00:46:22,400 you're not getting a bunch of, you know, winning driving 1053 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,519 play from Harper from Castle. We both like Vassell. Harrison 1054 00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:30,880 Barnes is a solid VET. Luke Cornett the free agent 1055 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,480 acquisition gives him the best backup guy to Wemby they've 1056 00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:37,039 had upfront basically ever, shouts out to Zach Collins. 1057 00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:40,280 Speaker 4: There's just kind of enough here too. 1058 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 3: They feel like they belong in the Blazers tier and 1059 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,639 they have a lot of upside. Similarly, but it just 1060 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,400 comes from Wembenyama because I don't see Castle or Harper 1061 00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:51,760 like sew him making some kind of leap necessarily, it's 1062 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,880 just Wemby. 1063 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: Which I think this is probably right for them, and 1064 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,679 it's if you want to. Some people might quibble over 1065 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,480 Webby coming off the blood clot with the that look like, 1066 00:47:00,559 --> 00:47:02,920 is he gonna be someone who ends up missing time? 1067 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,599 He's been cleared. I think that's positive. I keep coming 1068 00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:08,760 back to they were a plus two point three points 1069 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,000 per one hundred posessions with him on the floor last year, 1070 00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:13,800 and he played almost thirty two hundred possessions. Who was 1071 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:19,400 their second best player, Trade John And that's like, so 1072 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,800 now it's Daron Fox. And they weren't great together, but 1073 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,920 they didn't play a ton together because of the Wemby 1074 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,880 injury and then Fox had his own injury. I think 1075 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,880 he's gonna be someone who winds up. I've always been higher, 1076 00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:32,239 you know, on consensus on Fox's jumper, but I do 1077 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,760 have there does feel like there's real downside here independent 1078 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,679 of Wemby, right, like getting injured or missing time. Because 1079 00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:43,280 I know people say, oh, like you're overthinking, like the 1080 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,719 Dylan Harper, the Aaron Fox Steph Castle fit and maybe 1081 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,840 we are, but like you are heavily invested in two 1082 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,719 of these youngsters, Castle and Harper who are not done 1083 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,039 developing and with those learning like no one has the 1084 00:47:57,119 --> 00:47:59,159 learning curve of Wemby where it's he does a lot 1085 00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:01,320 of stuff wrong, but he might just win MVP anyway, 1086 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,679 Like that's like that's that's a one of one learning curve. 1087 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,559 And so I think that even if you're high on 1088 00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:12,800 them for the future, I do, Zach in the chat 1089 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,079 doesn't matter when betrayed with Buddhist monks, everyone is unnoticed. 1090 00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:19,559 So I like it's they have real upside, but they 1091 00:48:19,639 --> 00:48:21,119 like it, doesn't it feel like they might be the 1092 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:23,679 teams with one of the higher ranges of outcomes to 1093 00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:25,480 where like if you wanted to make a case Wenby's 1094 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,480 totally healthy, Fox is an all NBA type player. Yeah, 1095 00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:31,000 you could probably put them a is ambitious, but like 1096 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,960 a B tier. But if things if they really lean 1097 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,519 into like, no, we still need to see what we 1098 00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:37,800 have in so hand. We still need to really figure 1099 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,840 out like the on ball and off ball dynamics of Dylan, 1100 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,599 Harper and Castle. And I think, by the way, I know, 1101 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,440 like in what little we saw of him in Summer League. 1102 00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:48,280 I really think Dylan Harper is gonna figure out how 1103 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,960 to move away from the ball effectively, and so that 1104 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,360 gives me more hope than I had for this sort 1105 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,880 of grouping. But I still think that they're going to 1106 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,039 be too reliant on their front court players, Like they're 1107 00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:01,280 big specifically to space, and I'd like to see more 1108 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,159 of it coming from the perimeter. I honestly think Devin 1109 00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:08,079 Vescelles feels like a sneaky important player, like relative to 1110 00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:09,920 the entire NBA this coming year. 1111 00:49:11,559 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. I don't know how much 1112 00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:17,239 I want to agree and say they have a fairly 1113 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,079 high variance, like outside of Wemby, but it's almost like 1114 00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,360 they can control it to some extent just by virtue 1115 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,400 of how much time on the ball they give Harper 1116 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:31,400 and Castle versus Fox, because you can kind of minimize 1117 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,280 those guys and then you'll limit the mistakes and you 1118 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,320 can trot out, you know, if it's Fox, the cell Barns, 1119 00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:41,480 whoever else and Wemby, Like that's a pretty solid two 1120 00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:45,840 way group that like you know, is not it has 1121 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,039 less variance, I guess, is what I'm saying. Cornett's in 1122 00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:50,920 the rotation and they're just like there's a steadiness there. 1123 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,119 But if you then if you bump up the minutes 1124 00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:57,079 and usage of Castle and Harper, then the mistakes come. 1125 00:49:57,159 --> 00:49:59,360 Then the then the bad quarters come where they can't 1126 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,960 get into the off and you know, like they can 1127 00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:03,920 kind of choose which way they want to go just 1128 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,159 based on who they play, and that's just going to 1129 00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:08,519 be a balancing act, I think all year, unless something 1130 00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:11,119 crazy happens with Fox and he, you know, gets no extension, 1131 00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:13,840 and then they all think about moving him, which wouldn't bekaze. 1132 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,360 Speaker 1: So we have a question from Miles in the chat, 1133 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,760 what percentage chance would you put on a Fox trade 1134 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,840 pre deadline? I go like twenty five percent. And doesn't 1135 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,360 that come back because if he gets extended, he can't 1136 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,199 be traded for six months. And so if I'm well, 1137 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,480 assuming he gets more than a five percent raise, for 1138 00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:31,000 anyone who cares about that minutia, if I'm him, I'm pulling. 1139 00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:34,000 If they're offering the extension, I'm pulling the lowry market 1140 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,360 in And I don't even know when he's he was 1141 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,800 I think he was eligible for it already, right, But regardless, 1142 00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:40,159 I'm if if he's eligible for it. Now, I'm waiting 1143 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,920 until I think the trade deadline's like February fifth, So 1144 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,320 I will sign my extension in August sixth, so that 1145 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,079 I know I can't be traded bactly six months. And 1146 00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:49,679 if they don't sign him to an extension, I might 1147 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,800 peg that percentage at like fifty because that would just 1148 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,760 say like, Okay, well what is going on here? And 1149 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,559 I don't I don't think the Spurs are an organization 1150 00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:00,440 that would do that because they trade he wanted to 1151 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,320 go there, they trade it for him with the they 1152 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,880 intend to extend him. But when you ended up with 1153 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,320 the Dylan Harper pick, you there's there has to be 1154 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,079 discussions happening within the front office right now about this. 1155 00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:16,280 Speaker 3: I think, Like, I mean, it's just it's a business. 1156 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,840 You know, let's trot Thatt Like, if you're the Spurs, 1157 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,360 you have no incentive to do anything but play really 1158 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,679 really hardball with with Fox, like you you don't have 1159 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,039 to concede anything because you have two guys that might 1160 00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:31,880 just matter more to the franchise than him. It would 1161 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,840 feel like a bad look just because, like you said, 1162 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,559 Fox wanted to be there. Uh, he's when it happened, 1163 00:51:38,639 --> 00:51:40,280 is like, well that's the second but that's the best 1164 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,239 player Wemby's ever gonna play with, And it's just like, 1165 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,119 well maybe not now, and especially if. 1166 00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 4: You consider Foxes. 1167 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,159 Speaker 3: We've talked about it, like just the aging curve for 1168 00:51:48,199 --> 00:51:51,599 a player who really depends on speed to be successful, 1169 00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:55,039 Like I don't know, there's there's a chance we're at 1170 00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:57,480 his apex or beyond it already. Like there's the things 1171 00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:58,960 that you got to think about as the Spurs no 1172 00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:01,559 reason to go mac are like full years of dollars 1173 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,639 last he lost a lot. 1174 00:52:03,519 --> 00:52:05,480 Speaker 1: Of leverage though when they got number two in the lottery. 1175 00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:08,239 I will say, yeah, it'll be an interesting challenge trade 1176 00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,840 and there probably needs to be other moving parts of it. 1177 00:52:11,039 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 2: De Aaron Fox or Jaalen Brown. 1178 00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:19,400 Speaker 3: I mean, Brown makes so much more sense on San 1179 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,639 Antonio than Fox does, right, I mean like that that 1180 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,400 might be worth it's so expensive though, Yeah, I think the. 1181 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,519 Speaker 1: Stores are probably cheap enough for a little bit where 1182 00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:31,000 you don't mind the next two years of Jaylen Brown's contract, 1183 00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:33,599 which might make it more feasible we have anything. 1184 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,840 Speaker 3: Else on the Spurs, No, I think we should move on. 1185 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 2: Put it's my turn writer did I add the Spurs? No, 1186 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:39,920 you added the Spurs. 1187 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to put. 1188 00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:44,199 Speaker 2: I'm gonna put the Grizzlies. 1189 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put them ahead of the Blazers, but behind 1190 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,800 the Spurs. Uh, do you have them in this tier? 1191 00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:53,000 Speaker 3: I do have them in this tier, and I actually 1192 00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:56,159 have them. I have them ahead of the Spurs. But 1193 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,000 I don't think that's releve That doesn't matter. It's close 1194 00:52:59,079 --> 00:52:59,679 enough to where I live. 1195 00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,559 Speaker 1: I just don't trust this team even sorta like I haven't. 1196 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,360 I'm I always get queasy when winning teams or teams 1197 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,639 that are trying to win go to renegotiate and extend route. 1198 00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:15,679 I understand the logic here, but they also the Desmond 1199 00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:18,360 Baine trade. So you lost your second best score, your 1200 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,280 best shooter. H have they got there? They're also and 1201 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,920 he didn't play in summer League. I really wanted to 1202 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,719 see him, but he was dealing with that shoulder injury. 1203 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,880 They kind of have a lot riding on Cedric Coward 1204 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,679 being just good off rip. You need to be good, 1205 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,480 and that's just it's an uncomfortable and you're dealing with 1206 00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:35,800 like a bunch of front court. You decided to trade 1207 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,320 away Jay Huff and then you have the Zach Edy injury. 1208 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,840 What is he gonna Is he even gonna be available 1209 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,079 to start the season. I think they said he would, 1210 00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:42,519 but what does he look like coming off the injury? 1211 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,360 Brand Clark coming off another injury? 1212 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,880 Speaker 2: Just Jared Jackson Junior. 1213 00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:50,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say, that's absurd one. 1214 00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:52,719 Speaker 1: I like, I don't know, Like you could probably talk 1215 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,039 me being like at the bottom of this tier, John Morant, Grant, 1216 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,480 hold on to your seat. There's a chance he miss 1217 00:53:58,519 --> 00:54:01,599 his time. There's it's a there's a chance. I don't 1218 00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:04,119 know what. I don't know what to make of them. 1219 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,079 I think that like there's a chance like they could 1220 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:09,000 be I don't if you put them in the playoffs, 1221 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,320 I don't know who's the opponent in the first round 1222 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:12,800 they could face that would make me favor them. So 1223 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,000 I'll say that right off the bat, there's a chance, 1224 00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:17,079 I could they win a lot of regular season games 1225 00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,960 and this ends up looking egregiously low. But I'm just 1226 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,119 they feel two house of cards e for a team 1227 00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:25,599 that's and I like, I understand the value coming back 1228 00:54:25,639 --> 00:54:27,159 in the Desmond Bain trade, but then when you go 1229 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,920 get like it, I don't know what. 1230 00:54:29,079 --> 00:54:31,559 Speaker 2: I don't know what they're doing. I guess my point 1231 00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:32,119 it's just like. 1232 00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean part of it is, like I think, 1233 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,559 from their perspective, the Baine trade is one you just 1234 00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:40,519 say yes to just because of the first round capital 1235 00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:42,639 come in their way, even if a lot of it's 1236 00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:46,239 not going to be super high value. They already flipped. 1237 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:46,199 Speaker 4: Some of that. 1238 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:52,320 Speaker 3: Uh, but just talent and talent out Bain gone, Canard gone, 1239 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,679 Huff gone, Cole Anthony sort of was never there, and 1240 00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,000 you're adding KCP Ty Jerome Jock Landale. I think they're 1241 00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,480 worse just from a pure talent perspective, and then you're 1242 00:55:03,519 --> 00:55:06,280 having to and like that. The injury questions are really 1243 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,159 where it's at because you listed them all like basically 1244 00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:11,639 everybody who matters for them, like other than like Jalen Wells, 1245 00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:13,280 although he got hurt at the end of last year. 1246 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,800 So like so many guys at the high end of 1247 00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,320 the rotation have massive injury and availability questions and you 1248 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,639 just can't really, you can't move them higher. 1249 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,519 Speaker 4: You can't. They can't be in the next tier. 1250 00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:26,719 Speaker 3: To me, even while acknowledging like you said that, yeah, 1251 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,159 if they do get good health, then sure like they 1252 00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:32,800 could win fifty games like that's I could totally see 1253 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,320 that they've done it before with mostly these same guys, 1254 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,639 but it's at this point you kind of can't count 1255 00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:39,039 on that out. 1256 00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:41,920 Speaker 1: No, And also just like the Cole Anthony stuff, So 1257 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,199 we're just we're cool with the team, you know, like 1258 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,719 a team that's trying to win paying someone what did 1259 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,639 he give back two million or something? So just ten 1260 00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:52,360 million bucks to not play like, we're just we're cool 1261 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,079 with that. I just the mode of operations here, just 1262 00:55:56,079 --> 00:55:59,000 to like, I don't know, retain talent, but you also 1263 00:55:59,079 --> 00:55:59,440 shed it. 1264 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,079 Speaker 2: And then you picked up Cedric Coward. 1265 00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:03,119 Speaker 1: I I don't know what, and I don't even know 1266 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:04,840 you look at the roster. I think you say they'll 1267 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,280 probably be better on defense than offense, right, but I'm 1268 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,039 not prepared to guarantee it anymore. 1269 00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:11,280 Speaker 2: I love Jayon Wells too, hind. I think he's I 1270 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,119 think he should have run Rookie of the Year personally, 1271 00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:14,519 but neither here or there. 1272 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, let's uh. I have one more team 1273 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,920 in this tier and it is the Dallas Mavericks. 1274 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,760 Speaker 2: Where do you want to put them? 1275 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:26,320 Speaker 3: I think I want to put him at the top. 1276 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,880 Speaker 2: They're like, they're kind of the fun, kind of confusing. 1277 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,480 Speaker 3: Right, So just just to recap, like not actually a 1278 00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:37,920 lot of activity. I guess they did get some guy 1279 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,719 at the top of the draft. Can't remember his name. 1280 00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:43,280 They got dan Angela Russell on one of the best 1281 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,320 deals for a player that neither of us really love. 1282 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:51,119 Of the offseason, they Kyrie Irving signed to what I 1283 00:56:51,159 --> 00:56:54,280 felt like was a below market extension. But he's I 1284 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:55,960 don't know how much he's gonna help this year. I 1285 00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,199 would anticipate, like very little. Do you think he plays. 1286 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,400 Speaker 2: Like at the start of twenty twenty six or before. 1287 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,320 Speaker 1: If he's back before the All Star Break, I'd be 1288 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:05,679 pretty surprised. 1289 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:11,039 Speaker 3: I had been sort of writing off the year just entirely, 1290 00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:13,480 when that didn't mean he wasn't gonna play at all. 1291 00:57:13,519 --> 00:57:15,519 But I've just figured like, once he's back, you're gonna 1292 00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:18,719 get some some lesser version of him for however long 1293 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,559 he plays this year. All Star breaks a good a 1294 00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:24,239 good cutoff, Like if he's playing before that, I would 1295 00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:24,960 be very surprised. 1296 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,800 Speaker 4: So that's like, what do you do with this team? 1297 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,800 Speaker 3: Because they have the big man glutt which is maybe 1298 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,599 being simplified by Derek Lively's hurt again and had to 1299 00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:36,559 have another operation. 1300 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,119 Speaker 4: So like maybe that sorts itself out. 1301 00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 3: That's not a good outcome that that, like your logjam 1302 00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:44,320 is less jammy because one of the most important guys 1303 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,599 in it got hurt again. You have Davis, you have Gafford. 1304 00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:51,639 I think that the center, the front court looks really good. 1305 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,599 It's a question of the playmaking, which Russell's gonna be Like, okay, 1306 00:57:55,639 --> 00:57:59,880 at I think, and then again Irving, I don't ex 1307 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,480 lot out of this. Just this team just feels like 1308 00:58:02,519 --> 00:58:06,920 it has enough talent across the board to be Again, 1309 00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:08,880 these are all teams I think in general we could 1310 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:13,400 imagine finishing above the play in but it's not likely. 1311 00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:14,599 Speaker 4: I don't know, is what I'd say. 1312 00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:14,880 Speaker 2: I don't know. 1313 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 3: What do you think about the maus? I find them 1314 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,119 confusing too. 1315 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 1: I have a tough time envisioning them being really good 1316 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,559 on offense because Anthony Damas, whether he's playing power forwarder center, 1317 00:58:24,599 --> 00:58:25,840 is going to be at his best if you have 1318 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,159 someone to get him the ball Cooper flag. It's clear 1319 00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,920 based off Summer League, and Jason Kidds said this beforehand, 1320 00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:33,480 they're gonna put the ball in his hand and have 1321 00:58:33,559 --> 00:58:35,400 him run things, and like it looked good at points, 1322 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,960 but like just between the handle and even the stamina 1323 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,880 where it felt like he wasn't used to exerting as 1324 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,079 all that energy on offense, I have questions and then like, okay, 1325 00:58:43,159 --> 00:58:46,199 Deandrel Russell's fine until Kyrie comes back. You know, you 1326 00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:48,719 talk about their big man like Daniel gafferd Derek Lively 1327 00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:51,559 when he's healthy. Those guys on offense, their value is 1328 00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:53,800 predicated on having someone else get them the ball. 1329 00:58:54,239 --> 00:58:56,280 Speaker 2: And to be in that situation. 1330 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,639 Speaker 1: With if they're planning on playing huge, you're presumably gonna 1331 00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:02,519 be in that situation where two of the players on 1332 00:59:02,559 --> 00:59:05,119 the floor at least, Like that's how much of their 1333 00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:07,840 productivity is to and like, yeah, they'll have maybe they'll 1334 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,519 have like PJ. Washington slide up to the floor in 1335 00:59:09,559 --> 00:59:12,360 Naji Marshall. So there's that, and look Naji Marshall's drives 1336 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,679 last year we saw PJ. Washington punish some mismatches. I 1337 00:59:15,679 --> 00:59:17,440 think they should be really good on defense. I think 1338 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,360 look Cooper Flag, not a lot we keep saying, not 1339 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,079 at a lot of rot. We keep saying not a 1340 00:59:23,079 --> 00:59:25,639 lot of rookies in the past have been good on defense, 1341 00:59:25,679 --> 00:59:27,800 and I feel like there's just this trend where younger 1342 00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,000 guys are coming in and like Evan Mobley and look 1343 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,280 at what John Wells was able to do last year. 1344 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,639 Wemby of course is another example. I think he's gonna 1345 00:59:35,639 --> 00:59:37,880 be really good defensively right out of the gate. And 1346 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,880 so you have him and you're just huge. You're still huge, 1347 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,599 and honestly, you're probably even bigger without Kyrie just because 1348 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,679 Danel Russell Iss gonna be a little bigger than him 1349 00:59:45,679 --> 00:59:48,199 if he's your point guy. It's just the offense for me. 1350 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:49,960 So I mean, like the three biggest questions are what 1351 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,639 does Cooper flag look like on offense? What is the 1352 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,920 over arching reach of the offense without Kyrie? And then 1353 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,760 this one from the chat grant, what's also the over 1354 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,000 under the number of games that Anthony Davis plays that 1355 01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:04,440 he always just he's has there ever been anyone who 1356 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,079 just didn't have a chronic injury. 1357 01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:08,599 Speaker 2: He just gets injured all the time, like more than 1358 01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:09,440 he is, right. 1359 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, fifty five fifty five is a good number. I mean, 1360 01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:16,239 that's why the MAVs just can't be in the next 1361 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,800 tier if Irving were healthy. I think it's a much 1362 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,320 more interesting conversation. I think I probably would have them. 1363 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,280 Speaker 1: Generational hater if Irving's healthy, had probably like or fifty 1364 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,280 five win ceiling, but a twenty five win floor. 1365 01:00:28,639 --> 01:00:30,760 Speaker 2: Maybe they're the team with the highest range of outcomes 1366 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,119 in the West. 1367 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,880 Speaker 3: I mean again, it's I think it's limited a little 1368 01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,880 bit by Irving. They could, they could, maybe they look 1369 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,159 like a fifty five win team at the end of 1370 01:00:41,199 --> 01:00:43,480 the season, as Irving is like rounding into form, But 1371 01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:46,000 I don't think over the course of the year they 1372 01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:48,960 can quite get there. Although like there's a bunch of 1373 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,559 guys just looking down the roster, like Max Christie. Somebody 1374 01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:56,039 in the chat was mentioning, like, yeah, Mel mentioned Mac. 1375 01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:58,320 I like Christy, he can defend and is a serious guy. 1376 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,159 Like I like Christy a lot too between him, Klay Thompson, PJ. Washington. 1377 01:01:03,679 --> 01:01:08,000 You've got Naji Marshall. You've got like, I mean, some 1378 01:01:08,119 --> 01:01:11,920 legit like wing forward combo options in addition to your 1379 01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,119 giant front line. So like, as we talk about this more, 1380 01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,599 doesn't it feel like D'Angel Russell, like you mentioned the 1381 01:01:18,719 --> 01:01:20,719 cell as like a huge swing guy, Like, doesn't D'Angel 1382 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,840 Russell like kind of determine a lot for this team 1383 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,199 because nobody else is really gonna consistently playmake. I don't think. 1384 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,320 Speaker 2: I don't think Cooper Fly has a chance of I 1385 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:31,840 think I know. 1386 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, consistently playmake like I think 1387 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,639 he'll try. But it's like, even for a guy that 1388 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,719 you know has no weaknesses, just like that's a lot 1389 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,000 to ask in his first. 1390 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,800 Speaker 1: Year, like Cam Martin's healthy, I mean, between him maxical, 1391 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,199 Like this team, is there a chance that they could 1392 01:01:48,239 --> 01:01:50,960 have like the second or third best defense in the 1393 01:01:51,079 --> 01:01:53,079 I'm just assuming, okay, so he will be number one again, 1394 01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:55,960 But when you just look at the personnel, especially given 1395 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,199 how they have to play without Kyrie for so long, 1396 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,559 isn't there a chance of just like this second third 1397 01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:02,400 best defensive team in the league or no. 1398 01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 3: I would hesitate just there's a chance. I just think 1399 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,159 if you're gonna play Thompson and Russell and maybe Hardy 1400 01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,840 a lot like that, that makes it hard. But basically 1401 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,320 everybody else can guard. So yeah, I think like, as 1402 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:17,840 long as you don't have a bunch of your weak 1403 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,000 guys out there. At the same time, ceiling's fairly high defensively, offense, 1404 01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:24,079 is going to be a struggle. I think just there's 1405 01:02:24,119 --> 01:02:26,559 just not enough like ball movers, and I. 1406 01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:29,079 Speaker 1: Think they're in the right spot. They're in the right tier, 1407 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,119 even if you could see them going up one or 1408 01:02:31,159 --> 01:02:33,920 slipping down one. But I just I think this is 1409 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,840 the team that I'm like least confident in ranking among 1410 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:38,920 all the ones that we've talked about so far. 1411 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, although should 1412 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,440 it should it be the Lakers since we disagreed on them, 1413 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,800 I'm not confident now that wraps. 1414 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,320 Speaker 1: The was that the C tier, so we were onto 1415 01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,920 the beatier. We already talked about the Lakers, so we 1416 01:02:54,239 --> 01:02:56,079 went out of because Grant use his veto, we each 1417 01:02:56,159 --> 01:02:58,000 have a veto. I haven't used mine yet. Is anyone 1418 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,639 is anyone getting intrigued? Which team want to start within 1419 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,760 the B tier? So we have three teams in this tier. 1420 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,400 I believe I'm going to put let's put the Clippers 1421 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,079 in here. I have them in front of the Lakers. 1422 01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 2: Do you have them in front of the Lakers as well? 1423 01:03:13,199 --> 01:03:17,960 Oh yeah, there's still I mean, look, someone posted this 1424 01:03:18,039 --> 01:03:20,480 and it was a joke, but it's so Bradley Beal 1425 01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:23,039 like kind of wasn't okay in Phoenix, being like the 1426 01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:25,960 third option and wasn't as good or struggled to adapt, 1427 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,480 and now he's fine, He's gonna do the same thing 1428 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:28,440 in la and be okay. 1429 01:03:28,719 --> 01:03:31,639 Speaker 1: I'm more optimistic for a couple of reasons. They've tried 1430 01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:35,239 to streamline Kawhi's offensive role a bunch, and so I 1431 01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:38,199 think like there will be more of those Beal type 1432 01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:41,599 touches available to him. They also have the defensive structure, 1433 01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:43,800 like because Beale, would he shoot last year from three? 1434 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,679 Speaker 2: Was it like thirty eight percent? Or am I totally 1435 01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:46,440 misremembering that? 1436 01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 3: No, that that's like the sneaky truth about his time 1437 01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,519 in Phoenix is he actually was pretty efficient, like relative 1438 01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:53,519 to Washington days. 1439 01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:56,239 Speaker 1: Like, I just think that he makes them a lot 1440 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,559 better and he like he to his credit. In Phoenix, 1441 01:03:58,599 --> 01:04:00,800 he may have pouted or become top or been like 1442 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,960 taunting fans with his no trade clause. Basically he kind 1443 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,599 of showed that he would try to adapt, And so 1444 01:04:05,679 --> 01:04:07,639 I'm actually not worried that if they signed Chris Paul, 1445 01:04:07,639 --> 01:04:08,639 I'm gonna be a little bit. 1446 01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:10,480 Speaker 2: That's that's the thing we're looking at her, Like that 1447 01:04:10,519 --> 01:04:12,880 makes sense. But with the Beal on the Harden of 1448 01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,840 it all just seems bizarre. Also, Chris Paul and James 1449 01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,639 Harden being on the same team again is objectively hysterical. 1450 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:19,360 It still sort of. 1451 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:23,360 Speaker 1: Comes down to how many games this Kawhi playing because 1452 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,440 I think that he's kind of even more they've kind 1453 01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,199 of maybe he's less critical on offense, but hasn't he 1454 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,280 become more critical on defense? Just because it seems like 1455 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,719 right now you're putting in Beal into the rotation, John 1456 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,119 Collins is gonna play a bunch. Brook Lopez kind of 1457 01:04:36,159 --> 01:04:38,559 slipped on that end a little bit more, and like, 1458 01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:40,760 how is this team playing? I mean, like, is this 1459 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,679 gonna cut down on playing time for Chris Dunn and 1460 01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:45,920 Derek Jones Junior, two of your more impactful defenders from 1461 01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,400 last year. So I think there I feel better about them. Certainly, 1462 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,880 remember we destroyed them heading into last year and we 1463 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,599 were wrong, and I feel better about them than maybe 1464 01:04:56,599 --> 01:05:00,400 even how they closed this season. There's a I'm probably 1465 01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,119 gonna couch though, or if I find myself thinking, oh, 1466 01:05:03,159 --> 01:05:06,079 like they're the sneaky content, like they might just be 1467 01:05:06,159 --> 01:05:07,639 the second best team in the West, which is what 1468 01:05:07,639 --> 01:05:09,679 we kind of talked about last year. I might just 1469 01:05:09,719 --> 01:05:11,679 reserve myself a little bit more because now we're getting 1470 01:05:11,679 --> 01:05:14,440 into it, right the James Harden playoff track record? 1471 01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,239 Speaker 2: How healthy is this team? What is beal going to 1472 01:05:16,239 --> 01:05:19,960 look like when the postseason comes around. I'm it feels 1473 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,920 like there might be another like move to be made here, 1474 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,079 But they're ultra deep. They are built to still be 1475 01:05:24,119 --> 01:05:25,159 really good on defense. 1476 01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,119 Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, there's the age factors, but like 1477 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,519 the clips look long in the tooth. That'll factor into 1478 01:05:31,519 --> 01:05:35,000 just availability for these guys. But I think like the 1479 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,000 big key for me is just well, how well does 1480 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,400 Kawhi played thirty seven and they won fifty? And this 1481 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,840 team is way better than the team heading into last season? 1482 01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:43,760 Speaker 2: Are they? Are they way better? 1483 01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:48,119 Speaker 3: That's the kind of I put that one up there 1484 01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:51,920 because that's kind of where I if you're oversimplifying it land. 1485 01:05:52,119 --> 01:05:53,400 Speaker 4: Just the Powell loss. 1486 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,559 Speaker 3: We can debate whether Powell this coming. Powell was better 1487 01:05:57,639 --> 01:05:59,519 than Bill last year, will he be better than Bill 1488 01:05:59,559 --> 01:05:59,960 this year? 1489 01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:01,000 Speaker 2: Maybe? 1490 01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,639 Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm really rushing to bet on 1491 01:06:03,679 --> 01:06:07,320 a late career career year quite you know so quickly, 1492 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,679 but you add Collins, you add Lopez, you add beal, 1493 01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:14,000 you really are only subtracting Powell from the mix. I think, 1494 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,559 like I do, think this team is better as long 1495 01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:20,800 as the age and injury stuff doesn't catch up, which 1496 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,119 is like, okay, well that really might because because Harden 1497 01:06:24,159 --> 01:06:26,920 and Kawhi are who they are and Lopez is who 1498 01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:30,199 he is and what is he thirty seven, so like 1499 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,880 there's real down there. There's there's like a pretty scary floor, 1500 01:06:34,039 --> 01:06:36,280 but it's kind of injury based, which is like, well, 1501 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,440 that's kind of true for most teams. Yeah, I think 1502 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,199 this team is really good. I think I have no 1503 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,400 issue putting it at the top of the tiers so far, 1504 01:06:45,639 --> 01:06:49,239 certainly better than the Lakers. I think you'd never consider 1505 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,719 moving him down, even while acknowledging that. 1506 01:06:51,639 --> 01:06:54,159 Speaker 1: Would be just as point out like Kawhi played in 1507 01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:57,840 thirty seven and they still won fifty. I'm still kind 1508 01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,679 of interesting how it all comes together. And I would 1509 01:06:59,719 --> 01:07:02,679 be I'd be, hey, where's the young talent. Trenton Flowers 1510 01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:04,440 is gonna defend his ass off, That's what That's what 1511 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:05,360 Trenton Flowers does. 1512 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think they're probably in the right spot too. 1513 01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:10,599 Speaker 1: I just don't and I would agree, I'd be closer 1514 01:07:10,639 --> 01:07:12,599 to moving them up a tier. But I just there's 1515 01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:15,400 so much, there's so many question marks with and I 1516 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,519 hate boiling it down to availability because I think the 1517 01:07:17,519 --> 01:07:19,199 theory of the team makes sense even if I'm not 1518 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,360 like the biggest John Collins guy. But if you have 1519 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,599 CP three on this roster and already James Harden like 1520 01:07:23,639 --> 01:07:27,079 as a lob guy, John Collins being able to do that, 1521 01:07:27,239 --> 01:07:30,280 so and yeah, the backup center or the backup like 1522 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,760 front court rotation being bigger and just deeper in general, that'll. 1523 01:07:33,519 --> 01:07:36,400 Speaker 2: Go a long way. And they are. They're probably more 1524 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,079 insulated too. 1525 01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:39,360 Speaker 1: If there is a drop off from Kawhi right, maybe 1526 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,440 not in games played, but offensively like Beal because of 1527 01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,000 the self creation. I think that's where the upgrade from 1528 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,119 Norman Powell comes the most. And we saw Norman Powell 1529 01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:51,639 slow down in his on ball efficiency specifically. 1530 01:07:51,679 --> 01:07:52,519 Speaker 2: Is the season war on? 1531 01:07:54,239 --> 01:07:56,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, this team is very scary. 1532 01:07:56,719 --> 01:07:57,559 Speaker 4: This is it will be it. 1533 01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,800 Speaker 3: If nothing goes crazily wrong, we'll be at the doorstep 1534 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,000 of the playoffs saying, like you know, nobody wants to play, 1535 01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:05,400 There'll be the Clippers, just like it was last year. 1536 01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:07,159 Speaker 2: Do you want to pick the next team? 1537 01:08:07,159 --> 01:08:09,679 Speaker 3: For them, I gotta add, Okay, Yeah, one more team 1538 01:08:09,679 --> 01:08:12,760 in this tier. It is the Warriors. Just before I 1539 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,079 start speaking, are you okay with them in this tier? 1540 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:16,399 Do they belong one down? 1541 01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:19,239 Speaker 2: I think? I think if you're put the Lakers in 1542 01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:21,920 this tier, I'm okay with the Warriors in this tier? 1543 01:08:22,199 --> 01:08:23,479 Where do you have them? 1544 01:08:25,239 --> 01:08:29,000 Speaker 3: I have them between the Lakers and Clippers, so behind 1545 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,600 the Yeah, there you go. What do you think about that? 1546 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:32,640 Speaker 2: Is that your justification? 1547 01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,840 Speaker 1: Look, they feel it's kind of a similar case to 1548 01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,199 the Lakers, and I probably I do feel better about 1549 01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:41,560 the top of their roster overall, But you're also kind 1550 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,079 of and maybe it's not similar to the Lakers. It's 1551 01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:45,039 like they're in between the Lakers and the Clippers. So 1552 01:08:45,079 --> 01:08:47,439 this is fitting. There's just a lot kind of riding 1553 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,600 on three older dudes remaining ultra healthy and one of 1554 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,159 them just can't miss more than ten games or the 1555 01:08:54,199 --> 01:08:57,239 Warriors are cooked and I'm talking about Steph Curry. Basically, 1556 01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,399 I don't know how Like they've done nothing this offseason, 1557 01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,920 and if we assume that, I'm kind of still penciling 1558 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,640 in Al Horford for Golden State, which I I love. 1559 01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,399 By the way, I know he's old, but he could 1560 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,920 he he could still play and he fits like how 1561 01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:16,199 they want to run their team, especially on offense. I 1562 01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:20,560 just don't the Jonathan Kaminga situation makes me uneasy if 1563 01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,359 he's back, because it's is he playing for his next 1564 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:25,560 contract at that point? Is he willing to fit into 1565 01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,520 the larger ecosystem of the offense. Can he defend better? 1566 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,840 I thought nikaias Duncan made a great point on the 1567 01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,119 low post to where it's you can point to Jonathan 1568 01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:37,359 Kaminga's stats in the games in which he logs over 1569 01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,039 thirty minutes, they're great. It's like over twenty points sufficient scoring. 1570 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,359 He would have more of those games under his belt. 1571 01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:44,920 I think if he defended better or maybe even passed 1572 01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:47,960 better as well. But it's like you, if you throw 1573 01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,680 Jonathan Kaminga back onto this team, like I do you 1574 01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:52,520 lose something trying to fit him in where it's this 1575 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,319 talented player, but it's a square peg, round hole situation. 1576 01:09:57,359 --> 01:10:00,399 Speaker 3: The situation you're describing is just not any di Then 1577 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,840 it's been for like two plus years with him, right 1578 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:07,279 like if he's back, like, yeah, you'll be right to say, 1579 01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:09,399 I bet he's kind of annoyed. I'll bet he's gonna 1580 01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:12,239 get frustrated when they don't give him the opportunity to 1581 01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,239 just control an offense that has Steph Curry and Jimmy 1582 01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:18,279 Butler in it. Like, yeah, that that's been the dynamic, 1583 01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:20,560 and I think the locker room is full of enough 1584 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,520 vets and just like I don't know, cultural stability where 1585 01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,119 it's like Jonathan Kaminga can't like wreck this team's chemistry. 1586 01:10:28,159 --> 01:10:30,880 He's not important enough to really do that. Like he 1587 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,520 might sulk, he might you know, not give good effort 1588 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,640 when he's not guaranteed thirty plus minutes, but that's just 1589 01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,199 that's the status quo. So like, you know, I I'm 1590 01:10:41,279 --> 01:10:44,119 not I think I think it might be an issue 1591 01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:47,159 in other circumstances, but if like, it's not anything different 1592 01:10:47,199 --> 01:10:49,640 than the Warriors have been dealing with specifically with this 1593 01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,159 guy for a long time. So I'm not concerned about that. 1594 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,000 I think, like you know, and whether he's back or 1595 01:10:56,079 --> 01:11:00,199 not honestly doesn't change my opinion on the team team 1596 01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:03,640 overall that much. I'm I'm definitely done. I think, you know, 1597 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,439 with the logic of well, if Kaminga really pops this year, 1598 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,880 we can add five more wins to the total, Like 1599 01:11:09,239 --> 01:11:11,399 even I've moved past that, Like I just don't think 1600 01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:14,199 he can do that, or we'll have the opportunity even 1601 01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:17,640 if he could. On this team, it's just with Steph 1602 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,560 Butler Draymond like that. If they're healthy, this team is 1603 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,479 and they showed it, like when those guys were all 1604 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,520 together down the stretch last year, this team looked like 1605 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,600 a top four team in the West, played like one. 1606 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,359 The health questions are super legit, but I think you 1607 01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:33,880 could bank on like pajem schemes should be a little better, 1608 01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:36,479 Like you're gonna post what you get from Moody and 1609 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,000 healed Post. Yeah, Quinn Post is gonna make all NBA 1610 01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:44,000 first team. I mean the additions of like it shouldn't 1611 01:11:44,039 --> 01:11:46,800 matter this much, but if they get Horford, Andy, Anthony Melton, 1612 01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:50,520 then it's like they absolutely there's no question they belong 1613 01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:52,199 in this tier. I don't know if I'd move them up, 1614 01:11:52,199 --> 01:11:54,600 but like they could play with the teams above them 1615 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,199 if they get those guys and they say I. 1616 01:11:56,159 --> 01:11:57,840 Speaker 1: Think, but they're also so it's just like we talk 1617 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,039 about the age and the injury stuff. We saw the 1618 01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:02,640 limitations in the playoffs, but like in the regular season. 1619 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:05,760 Specifically having Jimmy Butler's huge because it does give you 1620 01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,000 a margin for error without Steph, and so I'm not 1621 01:12:09,039 --> 01:12:11,399 as worried about like the age and just that aspect 1622 01:12:11,399 --> 01:12:13,079 of it. If it happens in the postseason, that's where 1623 01:12:13,079 --> 01:12:17,199 you Yeah, okay, But when you look at this team, 1624 01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,359 whether you're a fan looking at as an adalyst, if 1625 01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:21,800 you're actually in on winning the title this year, rather 1626 01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:26,119 than just trying to be quality for Steph's twilight, they 1627 01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:29,279 need to do something else other than just sign out Horford, 1628 01:12:29,279 --> 01:12:31,600 bring back Kuminga, and get Danthony Milton right, Like, this 1629 01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,760 is not like could this team win the entire thing 1630 01:12:36,199 --> 01:12:38,800 assuming those moves when I don't again, three of them 1631 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,119 are not done yet. 1632 01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:44,359 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, you can't say yes because the Rockets 1633 01:12:44,359 --> 01:12:46,920 are a deeply flawed team and they barely could beat 1634 01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,000 the Rockets. And then the Wolve series is like, well 1635 01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,359 when STEP's hurt, like what are what's the point of 1636 01:12:51,399 --> 01:12:52,640 even watching anymore? 1637 01:12:53,359 --> 01:12:55,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right that they aren't good. 1638 01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,960 Speaker 3: They aren't good enough just talent wise, probably like if 1639 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,079 everybody's healthy, I guess you could still say, like, oh, 1640 01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:04,560 they can kind of play with anybody they have, like 1641 01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:09,199 given the thunder problems to the extent anybody has. But 1642 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,319 then it comes back to if you're talking about, like 1643 01:13:11,359 --> 01:13:13,199 can they win a championship. I just don't think the 1644 01:13:13,199 --> 01:13:15,680 three old guys are gonna make it through the entire 1645 01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:19,159 postseason without like some kind of you know, course altering 1646 01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:21,960 injury or breakdown or even before that, like maybe the 1647 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,960 injuries happened during the season and you have to fight 1648 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,560 from the ninth seed, like and you just there's no chance. 1649 01:13:27,039 --> 01:13:29,880 So I just think the durability because of the age 1650 01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,640 of the most important players is an issue you can't ignore. 1651 01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,640 That's why I can't even really seriously consider moving them up. 1652 01:13:36,039 --> 01:13:37,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't really have any qualms about them 1653 01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:39,439 being here, But it feels like the floor. It's the 1654 01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,640 same thing with all these teams in the tiers, like 1655 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,760 you could see the floor kind of coming out from 1656 01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,800 underneath each one of them, whether it's the Clippers, the Warriors, 1657 01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:50,920 or the Lakers. That does wrap it up for this tier, though, right, 1658 01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,439 so we have next tier. 1659 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,359 Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw in there, all right. 1660 01:13:55,239 --> 01:13:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw we both have the Timberwolves in here, 1661 01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:00,920 So they're the only team we him ahead of anybody. 1662 01:14:01,399 --> 01:14:01,800 Speaker 2: I don't. 1663 01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:03,319 Speaker 1: I don't want to say I don't know what to 1664 01:14:03,359 --> 01:14:05,920 make of them. They do feel kind of disrespected for 1665 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,760 a team that just made consecutive Western Conference finals is 1666 01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:12,680 not the East, So I like that's fascinated me. I 1667 01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:16,479 think losing to Keethle Alexander Walker, it clearly sucks. But 1668 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,279 hopefully one of Jaalen Clark or Terron Shannon Junior hits 1669 01:14:19,359 --> 01:14:20,840 enough of the threes where they can book because they 1670 01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:22,720 will replace a lot of what he does, maybe not 1671 01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,920 some of the tangential playmaking. They do feel though, just 1672 01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:30,600 giving the aging curve of Mike Conley the limitations, I 1673 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,039 maybe he's gonna continue to get better. So that's not 1674 01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,560 But like you have Julie s Rendel, you have Anthony Edwards, 1675 01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,840 you still just don't have an A plus passer, and 1676 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,079 so you need to load up on those B level 1677 01:14:41,119 --> 01:14:45,159 B plus passers. They kind of need Rob Dillingham to 1678 01:14:45,159 --> 01:14:46,039 be good this season. 1679 01:14:46,359 --> 01:14:47,439 Speaker 2: But I also don't know if. 1680 01:14:47,359 --> 01:14:51,119 Speaker 1: He's gonna get a chance to play still, like he's 1681 01:14:51,159 --> 01:14:53,359 looked mostly fine in Summer League. I throw stats and 1682 01:14:53,399 --> 01:14:56,079 not turnovers out the rendow entirely, but he's got like 1683 01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:58,840 his on ball juice is real. I'm just curious, as 1684 01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,119 do you think that they're gonna give him like a 1685 01:15:01,399 --> 01:15:02,960 do you know the kind of the shot that we're 1686 01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,199 expecting Reed Shepherd to get with the Rockets this year? 1687 01:15:05,279 --> 01:15:07,760 Do you think Dillingham gets that where it's fifteen minutes 1688 01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:08,399 a game on. 1689 01:15:08,319 --> 01:15:09,359 Speaker 2: A consistent basis. 1690 01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,079 Speaker 3: I think it's just I view him and Conley as 1691 01:15:13,159 --> 01:15:17,000 so linked, Like I would say yes if Conley misses 1692 01:15:17,119 --> 01:15:20,159 time or just takes another incremental step backwards as the 1693 01:15:20,199 --> 01:15:23,039 age is aged thirty eight season, like you just you 1694 01:15:23,199 --> 01:15:26,079 have to anticipate he's gonna either be less available or 1695 01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:30,600 less effective or both. If Conley's like solid enough, then 1696 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:34,520 I don't know, maybe Dillingham doesn't get quite the shot 1697 01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,439 that we might like him to, But there's also so 1698 01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,600 I don't know, it just depends on Conley. I guess 1699 01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,680 was a short answer, because like they do need what 1700 01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,520 Dillingham theoretically provides, just in terms of like he can 1701 01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,960 beat his guy and draw a second defender and make 1702 01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,119 something happen Like that's that's a skill that this offense 1703 01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:55,880 really needs. Even if he's great at the things. 1704 01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:56,319 Speaker 4: He's great at. 1705 01:15:56,359 --> 01:15:57,800 Speaker 3: I don't know if Dillingham is the guy that's like 1706 01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,199 whipping the ball around and suddenly the Wolves offense is 1707 01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:03,720 like the blender, you know, the Pacers blender. But yeah, 1708 01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,840 I think you need you need playmaking from him, You 1709 01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:09,119 need it from Randall, you need it from de Vincenzo, 1710 01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,319 like you need Read to be a guy that's like 1711 01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,960 driving a lot and collapsing the defense that way. But 1712 01:16:15,079 --> 01:16:17,840 like you said it, this team made the conference finals twice. 1713 01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:20,720 I think we should expect Anthony Edwards to continue to improve, 1714 01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:23,439 and he's already like at such a high level that 1715 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:27,640 improvement for him is like he's you know, you're talking 1716 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,439 top five MVP, like for the balance, you know, the 1717 01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,920 bulk of the season. So I just like, we know 1718 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,079 the defense should be good. It's does let me ask you, like, 1719 01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,680 does a lot of what we're discussing about the Wolves 1720 01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,520 feel really similar to what we discussed last year about 1721 01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,000 our questions and about our uncertainties and like which way 1722 01:16:46,039 --> 01:16:48,680 does this roster lean defense versus offense? Like not a 1723 01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,119 lot has really changed, even though Alexander Walker's gone. 1724 01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have the same questions. I think what gives 1725 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,319 me a slightly more hope for them to at least 1726 01:16:57,319 --> 01:16:58,920 be better in the regular season. I think you could 1727 01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,479 reasonably say they've peaked the postseason just because they were 1728 01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,560 in the conference finals in the past two years, right 1729 01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:05,239 or give me hope is like, Okay, we saw what 1730 01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:08,159 Julius Randall can do in this system, and like Dante 1731 01:17:08,239 --> 01:17:11,319 DiVincenzo has to have like a better year. That was 1732 01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:12,720 just like he was very up and down he did. 1733 01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:14,359 I think he did deal with like a lower body 1734 01:17:14,399 --> 01:17:18,600 injury at one point too. So I think like we 1735 01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,840 do have the same questions, but we also have like 1736 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:22,960 a couple more answers, like just a little bit more 1737 01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,800 when it comes to specifically okay, Dante de Evincenzo, Julius Randall. 1738 01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:27,960 But now you've, like you said with no, you've added 1739 01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,000 in the variable of okay, well like our Arran Shannon 1740 01:17:31,079 --> 01:17:34,079 Junior or and or Jalen Clark ready to do something 1741 01:17:34,079 --> 01:17:36,279 for you. It's weird to say that they've lost to 1742 01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:38,520 Kile Alexander Walker, and it's like, do we feel we 1743 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,039 feel worse about their shooting now? 1744 01:17:40,119 --> 01:17:41,640 Speaker 2: Right? Like that wasn't something. 1745 01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,760 Speaker 1: That was a calling card and he hasn't necessarily shot 1746 01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:44,640 it well in the playoffs. 1747 01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,119 Speaker 2: The past couple of seasons all the time. 1748 01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:48,520 Speaker 1: That's gonna be something they have to overcome because is 1749 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,800 that going to allow like who, like what is there? 1750 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:53,359 I guess their core I guess what helps is their 1751 01:17:53,359 --> 01:17:56,079 core lineup remains the same. So Anthony Edwards isn't gonna 1752 01:17:56,079 --> 01:17:58,399 be in a worse situation, but like he wasn't in 1753 01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,600 the optimal situations last year. 1754 01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's definitely true. I wanted to before 1755 01:18:05,399 --> 01:18:09,399 we move on, hind was asking go beart trade in coming. 1756 01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:13,520 Speaker 2: You're not high on Joel Binger Bayringer. I can't have 1757 01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:14,199 the pronunciation. 1758 01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:16,199 Speaker 1: I'm still if you're honest French, and I can't remember 1759 01:18:16,199 --> 01:18:18,560 how to pronounce it already. 1760 01:18:19,279 --> 01:18:22,840 Speaker 3: I just think, like, doesn't that make the read contract 1761 01:18:23,159 --> 01:18:25,520 just like, oh okay, I get it now. Is if 1762 01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,800 you're anticipating, like, no, he's not going to be a 1763 01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:29,680 twenty five million dollars a year backup, he's going to 1764 01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,159 start for us eventually because we're trading Gobert at some point, 1765 01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,880 Like that makes that contract make more sense to me. 1766 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:36,760 I don't know that that's just the one thing to 1767 01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,399 consider the defense though, it makes it a hell of 1768 01:18:40,399 --> 01:18:43,560 a lot worse, Like that that would be them acknowledging 1769 01:18:44,279 --> 01:18:47,279 the reason we're not advancing to the finals is because 1770 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,760 our offense just is too far behind where it needs 1771 01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,119 to be, and we'll sacrifice some defense for that. I 1772 01:18:53,119 --> 01:18:54,600 don't know if that'll be the right call, but you 1773 01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,800 could imagine them, you know, after two years of having 1774 01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,000 that be how things play out, just well, let's try 1775 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:00,600 a different way. 1776 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,159 Speaker 1: They're like a team that could whether it's moving, like 1777 01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:06,560 do you ever even consider moving nas reed to try 1778 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:08,840 and address maybe getting like a higher end for general 1779 01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:10,600 in here is like is there an And it's just 1780 01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,119 we don't really see the big for floor general trades. 1781 01:19:13,119 --> 01:19:14,800 It used to be, oh, we never see big for wing, 1782 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,000 but it's like, could you do? I feel like there's 1783 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,399 probably not enough value for like is there like a no? 1784 01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,359 Because they love yaka Pearl. I was gonna say, like 1785 01:19:22,399 --> 01:19:24,920 you send nas or Rudy Gobert Toronto get a manual 1786 01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:25,840 quickly back or something. 1787 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:26,800 Speaker 2: Is that doing anything for you? 1788 01:19:28,399 --> 01:19:29,079 Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't know. 1789 01:19:29,119 --> 01:19:31,279 Speaker 4: I did that. That read contract. 1790 01:19:31,319 --> 01:19:33,000 Speaker 3: I guess most teams would view him as a starter, 1791 01:19:33,159 --> 01:19:35,760 So it's not like a crazy thing to. 1792 01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:39,159 Speaker 1: Do, especially so easy to move next year, specifically because 1793 01:19:39,159 --> 01:19:41,159 he he Oh no, he didn't not he declined it. 1794 01:19:41,159 --> 01:19:42,279 Speaker 2: That's right, it's part of it. He got a five 1795 01:19:42,359 --> 01:19:43,319 year deal. I take that back. 1796 01:19:43,399 --> 01:19:45,319 Speaker 1: Still, I still think he's probably pretty easy to move. 1797 01:19:45,359 --> 01:19:47,840 But there it's weird because they go through stretches where 1798 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,600 their offense is like fifth for x amount of games 1799 01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:52,920 every year, and yet you still can't trust it. And 1800 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,000 I'm not saying them getting rid of or not really 1801 01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:57,920 materially changes that it like should make it worse, but 1802 01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,800 it's just it's just another Vrea with this team, And 1803 01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,119 I'm curious to see, like, would this be a team 1804 01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:06,680 that you would I like, well, they follow this through 1805 01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:08,560 for the entire year, or if things are just kind 1806 01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,159 of not going to plan, they would be a team 1807 01:20:10,199 --> 01:20:13,720 that would look at mid season fireworks, whether it's trying 1808 01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:16,319 to tack even though it's difficult, like giving their limitations, 1809 01:20:16,319 --> 01:20:18,159 but that are trying to tack on, or maybe they're 1810 01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:19,840 getting rid of some money, because I view them as 1811 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:21,720 a ladder to where it's oh, this would be a 1812 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,279 team where if they don't start right like they're just 1813 01:20:24,399 --> 01:20:26,560 they might try to course correct pretty quickly. 1814 01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:31,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, And what that takes the form of Randall or 1815 01:20:31,079 --> 01:20:33,800 Gobert or Nas getting traded, right, if you're really trying 1816 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:35,600 to move a big number, that's got to be one 1817 01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,920 of those guys. Yeah, I could see that. I mean, 1818 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,880 I just think that realistically, Like I think they're gonna 1819 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,720 win fifty something games and they're going to be in 1820 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:48,319 the top four and they'll just run into offensive issues 1821 01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:50,399 in the playoffs and maybe that's in the conference finals 1822 01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:51,760 or maybe not quite right. 1823 01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,720 Speaker 4: Like that, just they feel like there's a pretty. 1824 01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:58,640 Speaker 3: Low variance for their possible outcomes, which is different than 1825 01:20:58,640 --> 01:20:59,439 we've been saying for a lot. 1826 01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,319 Speaker 1: Have a lot of variations of this in the chat, 1827 01:21:01,319 --> 01:21:03,159 and this one's from Bertman. They might not be able 1828 01:21:03,199 --> 01:21:05,159 to move these guys. Who wants Julius Randall or Rudy 1829 01:21:05,159 --> 01:21:07,159 Gobert at this point in their careers. I get the 1830 01:21:07,239 --> 01:21:09,000 Randall because he's such a tough fit. I know he's 1831 01:21:09,039 --> 01:21:11,239 younger and he's made multiple NBA teams. 1832 01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:12,439 Speaker 2: I feel like I. 1833 01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:15,279 Speaker 1: Would take on Rudy Gobert, like his contract as a player, 1834 01:21:15,319 --> 01:21:17,079 right as a person, we can have a different discussion, 1835 01:21:17,119 --> 01:21:20,119 but like that contract's not one that really phases me 1836 01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,359 over the next what is it? He is three years 1837 01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:25,159 left on it? Like that's not is that one you're 1838 01:21:25,399 --> 01:21:27,760 overly concerned about. 1839 01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:32,079 Speaker 3: I mean a little bit, but but for the reason being, 1840 01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:36,840 I'm not sure where the team is. That's saying where 1841 01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,399 a Rudy Gobert away from. 1842 01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,640 Speaker 1: Phoenix to talk themselves into it. 1843 01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:44,640 Speaker 3: Get I'm sorry, I don't know where the team is. 1844 01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:48,720 That could rationally say that because just like that's he 1845 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,159 he changes a lot of what you do. And so 1846 01:21:51,239 --> 01:21:54,319 it's not like Gobert is additive in that like he 1847 01:21:55,039 --> 01:21:57,159 basically guarantees your defense will be good when he's on 1848 01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:01,119 the floor and sometimes great. But it's like you do 1849 01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:03,880 change how you play on both ends when when he's 1850 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,119 on the floor, And it's that that to me is 1851 01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:08,479 why he's harder to trade as it's tricky to find 1852 01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,199 the team. That's like, we understand how we're gonna integrate him, 1853 01:22:11,239 --> 01:22:13,359 and we super need him, and we're willing to pay 1854 01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,960 thirty five, thirty seven, thirty eight million over the next 1855 01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,319 three years for him in age thirty three, thirty four 1856 01:22:18,359 --> 01:22:20,640 to thirty five like seasons, Like I think he's really 1857 01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:21,880 good and improves teams. 1858 01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:22,800 Speaker 4: It's just hard to think of. 1859 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,359 Speaker 3: Like who's starving for Rudy Gobert to come at that price, 1860 01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:27,159 and like. 1861 01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:32,079 Speaker 2: Would you do nas Reed and Rob Dillingham for Dearn Fox? 1862 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,119 Speaker 1: It makes no sense on the spurs. Dillingham doesn't nos 1863 01:22:37,159 --> 01:22:38,439 read fits along side't want to be like a. 1864 01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:44,880 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, and he doesn't. But I I don't love 1865 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:46,720 the Fox fit Edwards. 1866 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:48,479 Speaker 2: And then Randall's still there. That was a bad one. 1867 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,159 Speaker 1: I was just like what because we're talking about, Oh, 1868 01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:52,560 they could use a different facilitator, but the guy to 1869 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,880 actually move, which is ironic because I think he's the best, 1870 01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:58,399 like in a vacuum as a player of the three 1871 01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,359 between NOAs Reed and Rudy Gobert's value just defensively, I 1872 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,560 like you need to like he has the least trade value, 1873 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,520 but maybe the most on court value of that trio. Yeah, 1874 01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:10,159 you kind of need to move him if you want 1875 01:23:10,239 --> 01:23:12,199 to put like a point guard is not going to 1876 01:23:12,239 --> 01:23:14,199 spend a ton of time off the ball otherwise it's 1877 01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:17,279 you know, you're looking at just like I don't. You're 1878 01:23:17,319 --> 01:23:19,159 just looking at not someone who might make enough of 1879 01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:20,720 a difference because you don't have the assets to go 1880 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,199 out and get a star that's gonna fit everything that 1881 01:23:23,239 --> 01:23:24,960 you want alongside Edwards. 1882 01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, like this won't happen for a trillion reasons, 1883 01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,039 but like Haliburton is the guy that makes the most 1884 01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:34,319 sense next to Edwards, like and there's not there aren't 1885 01:23:34,319 --> 01:23:37,000 a lot of Halliburton types, Like that's just he's kind 1886 01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:39,479 of a one on one at the moment. All Right, 1887 01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:42,159 we got to add a team here, and I will 1888 01:23:42,199 --> 01:23:44,800 do the honors and we will now begin discussing the 1889 01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:49,800 Houston Rockets. Oh aware, though that's a great question. I 1890 01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,840 actually have them below the Wolves, but you're looking like 1891 01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,279 you want to put them above them, and I'm really 1892 01:23:56,279 --> 01:23:56,920 on the fence. 1893 01:23:57,319 --> 01:23:58,319 Speaker 4: You decide where they are, and. 1894 01:23:58,399 --> 01:23:59,720 Speaker 2: I would put them in front of the Wolves. 1895 01:24:00,159 --> 01:24:03,039 Speaker 1: I think, okay there, So I find myself they're similar 1896 01:24:03,039 --> 01:24:04,800 to the Nuggets, where I find myself having to kind 1897 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,000 of poke holes in their offseason while also celebrating it. 1898 01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,720 And I think, you look at Houston, Kevin rant just 1899 01:24:11,079 --> 01:24:12,960 you make that trade eleven times out of ten for 1900 01:24:13,039 --> 01:24:16,000 the value that they gave up. That Jale Green contract 1901 01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:18,159 was not viewed favorably around the league. The offense is 1902 01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:21,319 going to be better and spacier. I still look at 1903 01:24:21,319 --> 01:24:24,039 it though, and say, yes, they have shang gun Ami 1904 01:24:24,119 --> 01:24:26,960 Thompson will get better. They still have Red van Vliet. 1905 01:24:27,319 --> 01:24:30,359 But like, here's why I'm higher on them that I 1906 01:24:30,399 --> 01:24:33,600 probably should be. I think that read Shepherd, it's set up. 1907 01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:35,800 This is what this offseason telegraphed to me. And yes, 1908 01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,600 I was bound to make this about Reed Shepherd. They're 1909 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,279 prepared for him to play a real role, and if 1910 01:24:41,279 --> 01:24:44,119 the way he both defended and played on offense in 1911 01:24:44,119 --> 01:24:47,079 Summer League is any indication he's ready for that role. 1912 01:24:47,359 --> 01:24:49,439 So coming in, my question is it still feels like 1913 01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,760 they have a lack like a creation deficit from the 1914 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,640 outside end, because that's not like, that's not Kevin Durant anymore. Right, 1915 01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:58,520 Like we've seen him struggle at points in his last 1916 01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,119 two playoff campaigns. Leave the numbers show like he just 1917 01:25:01,119 --> 01:25:03,479 doesn't fare as well against pressure. Now there's some turnover 1918 01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:07,439 issues there. I also have questions about is he gonna 1919 01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,600 be like what type of offense are they going to play? 1920 01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:14,239 Because Kevin Durant wants to play like a Kevin Durant 1921 01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:15,960 way he can play in any way. He's one of 1922 01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,520 the most scalable superstars we've ever seen. Is he gonna 1923 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,840 be okay? Like kind of playing off the ball from 1924 01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,560 Shanghun or read Shepherd a bunch or are you gonna 1925 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:27,119 regress into or default too? I should say, Oh, he's 1926 01:25:27,159 --> 01:25:30,239 gonna spend a lot of time on the ball, and 1927 01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:31,720 that's how we want to run our office because you're 1928 01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:34,560 gonna lose playmaking there. I think your turnovers will go up. 1929 01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:36,600 And yes, Kevin Durant is still one of the best 1930 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,560 scorers in the game. This is I hate this. I 1931 01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:41,560 hate myself. I loathe everything about this discussion. But does 1932 01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:43,399 that do you understand what I'm saying. I'm kind of 1933 01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:45,399 twisted myself into a pretzel here. 1934 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,920 Speaker 3: No, So your questions are about the offense, which is 1935 01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,039 where they have to be because defensively, we know what 1936 01:25:52,039 --> 01:25:54,760 the Rockets are. They're gonna be awesome. If they're not 1937 01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:59,600 a top five defense, I would be stunned they I 1938 01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:04,279 do think you're right to question, like in the biggest 1939 01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:07,000 of big moments, like obviously, like you add Kevin Durant 1940 01:26:07,039 --> 01:26:10,760 to a team that needed scoring in the playoffs and like, yeah, okay, 1941 01:26:11,039 --> 01:26:13,680 try to do better than that, Like that's how you 1942 01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,640 can't almost like really, it's just especially if you're like 1943 01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:18,680 we need a guy that's been through it and not 1944 01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:21,159 just theoretically able to score in the post like it's 1945 01:26:21,239 --> 01:26:25,000 Kevin Durant. So the offense has to be where the 1946 01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:25,640 questions are. 1947 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,880 Speaker 4: I'm kind of persuaded. 1948 01:26:27,319 --> 01:26:31,560 Speaker 3: That at everywhere but the absolute highest levels, like we're 1949 01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:35,800 talking conference finals or finals. I think between the Durant addition, 1950 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:41,199 the Van Vliet retention, the Shepherd like I don't know, 1951 01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,720 actually like letting him off the bench once in a while. 1952 01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:47,039 I think Thompson should be a little better. I think 1953 01:26:47,359 --> 01:26:50,159 Shan Goon might be a little better as an offensive player. 1954 01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:53,159 Like there's kind of enough collect Jabari Smith Junior just 1955 01:26:53,199 --> 01:26:56,159 got paid, like although got paid, like the Rockets tend 1956 01:26:56,159 --> 01:26:56,600 to do not. 1957 01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:58,000 Speaker 2: As much as they couldn't. 1958 01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:00,399 Speaker 1: I think, are they going to have like the best 1959 01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:03,920 run of like team friendly rookie extensions like what I 1960 01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:04,399 just don't. 1961 01:27:05,279 --> 01:27:07,279 Speaker 4: I just don't. So do you see what I'm getting at? 1962 01:27:07,319 --> 01:27:10,640 Speaker 3: Though, Like there's there's enough reason to expect like a 1963 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,199 collective offensive improvement that at least, like say for the 1964 01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:17,560 regular season. I don't really have offensive concerns for them, 1965 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:20,479 and probably in the first round, depending on the opponent, 1966 01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,399 probably not. They're like a team that like wake me 1967 01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:26,640 up in the second round and and maybe then the. 1968 01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,159 Speaker 4: Issue is like more pressing. 1969 01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:32,520 Speaker 3: But like, I do think there's enough bites at it 1970 01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:36,039 between Shepherd specifically and like Thompson getting better and Durant 1971 01:27:36,079 --> 01:27:39,640 maybe just I don't know, like if he's just Durant, 1972 01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,399 like he doesn't need to he can be the thirty 1973 01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:44,199 seven year old dream doesn't have to be twenty seventeen Durant. 1974 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,680 There's enough here offensively that I'm not worried about it 1975 01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,399 until like late May, I guess is. 1976 01:27:50,399 --> 01:27:54,399 Speaker 1: The way to frame it, because I'm like trying to 1977 01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,640 curtail my Read Shepherd optimism because he just might be 1978 01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:59,680 the answer to everything we're concerned about when you look 1979 01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:01,800 at having the A plus level passer who can also 1980 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:04,199 score from the perimeter, off the dribble and like put 1981 01:28:04,239 --> 01:28:07,079 defenses in just absolute scramble mode, and he might haven't. 1982 01:28:07,119 --> 01:28:10,279 The good thing about having Kevin Durant is his gravitational 1983 01:28:10,319 --> 01:28:12,479 pull where defenses are also going to default to him. 1984 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,199 Speaker 2: That opens things up for everybody. 1985 01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:16,680 Speaker 1: So reed, Shepherd just might be good enough to worry 1986 01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:18,920 even if you have concerns before the second round about 1987 01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:23,119 the offense if he pops like those concerns might evaporate. 1988 01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:24,920 It's when you get later into the playoffs and go 1989 01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:27,039 up against some of those other defenses, and at that 1990 01:28:27,119 --> 01:28:29,319 point it's, I will, who do you want on this 1991 01:28:29,359 --> 01:28:31,039 team that would make you feel good going up against 1992 01:28:31,079 --> 01:28:33,760 Oklahoma City's defense is kind of the question, right. 1993 01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,439 Speaker 3: That's the other thing too, is I think we even 1994 01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:38,840 talk about Finny Smith really except in the context of 1995 01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:41,720 like Lakers, why didn't you keep him? I think there's 1996 01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:43,880 a chance this defense is better, and I think there's 1997 01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:46,479 a chance that this team could play so even bigger 1998 01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:46,840 than it. 1999 01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,279 Speaker 1: Did during last year that like Shanngun together with Jabari 2000 01:28:50,399 --> 01:28:50,920 and Durant. 2001 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:52,640 Speaker 3: I mean, if you can play Kevin Durant at the two, 2002 01:28:53,399 --> 01:28:54,840 that's fine. 2003 01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:55,399 Speaker 4: Whatever. 2004 01:28:56,359 --> 01:28:59,720 Speaker 3: So there's a chance that they, like however many wins 2005 01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:02,720 they banked last year, just by being like bigger and 2006 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,319 more physical, Like Easan's gonna play more too, Probably you 2007 01:29:05,319 --> 01:29:07,399 would you would assume like more there there. 2008 01:29:07,239 --> 01:29:09,439 Speaker 1: Are only so many minutes in a basketball game. We've 2009 01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:10,319 already given read. 2010 01:29:10,199 --> 01:29:12,720 Speaker 3: Cheaperdame, and like, whe where are these minutes? 2011 01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:13,560 Speaker 2: Right? 2012 01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:14,640 Speaker 3: Where do you get the rest of them? 2013 01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:17,000 Speaker 4: I think you just bench Thompson. That's makeing prove it? 2014 01:29:17,399 --> 01:29:20,399 Speaker 3: Uh, I just think, how are many wins they banked 2015 01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:25,199 through offensive rebounding or or turnover generation or whatever, Like 2016 01:29:25,359 --> 01:29:27,640 add four to that total for this year, because I 2017 01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:31,319 think they could they'll be even bigger. Their nastiest defenders 2018 01:29:31,359 --> 01:29:33,800 are like not aging out. It's just like there will 2019 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:35,640 be so many ways for them to pile up wins. 2020 01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're If they're not, I mean, if they're not 2021 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:40,039 top three in the West, I think it could be 2022 01:29:40,079 --> 01:29:42,399 pretty surprised at this point. Like their floor feels like 2023 01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:44,680 four where you can't get a wild cards. 2024 01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:46,560 Speaker 2: I think they're like the Clippers. 2025 01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,399 Speaker 3: Yep, I agree with that. They're really They're they're really. 2026 01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm using a veto and I am putting the Nuggets 2027 01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,880 in st here. 2028 01:29:58,920 --> 01:29:59,960 Speaker 4: I was thinking about a take. 2029 01:30:01,039 --> 01:30:01,960 Speaker 2: Did you see that coming? 2030 01:30:02,039 --> 01:30:06,039 Speaker 1: Giving everything that I said about the Nuggets offseason, because 2031 01:30:06,399 --> 01:30:08,560 it's okay to be disconnected, I think that they did 2032 01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:10,600 not get enough traction out of their twenty thirty two 2033 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:11,239 first round pick. 2034 01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:12,840 Speaker 2: It's also kind of it's weird. 2035 01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:15,600 Speaker 1: There feels like a disconnect between I agree that this 2036 01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,119 is one of the deepest teams around Nikoliokic, but I 2037 01:30:18,159 --> 01:30:21,039 also feel that Nuggets fans might be tethering a lot 2038 01:30:21,079 --> 01:30:23,359 of value to Bruce Brown and Tim Hardaway Junior in 2039 01:30:23,359 --> 01:30:28,239 the year twenty twenty five, but they just pushed OKAC. 2040 01:30:28,399 --> 01:30:29,239 Speaker 2: To seven games. 2041 01:30:29,279 --> 01:30:33,039 Speaker 1: I think while all of basically all of okac's players 2042 01:30:33,079 --> 01:30:34,920 are at the age where they should continue to get better, 2043 01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:39,760 there's still offensive question marks there. I look at Denver, 2044 01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,640 if they're even a semblance of healthier, I still don't 2045 01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,520 think that they're built to navigate too much choppiness from 2046 01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,840 a Jamal. If he comes into camp out of shape 2047 01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,399 again and he's off to one of his trademarks Thow starts, 2048 01:30:52,399 --> 01:30:55,479 they might tumble behind in the standings in terms. 2049 01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:56,720 Speaker 2: Of championship equity. 2050 01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,600 Speaker 1: Though this team is really well built now like you 2051 01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,640 need contributions from I would say one of Bruce Brown 2052 01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:05,520 or Tim Hardaway Junior needs to hit as a signing. 2053 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:07,399 And yes, Nuggets fans, I know what Bruce Brown was 2054 01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:08,359 during the title season. 2055 01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:10,279 Speaker 2: That was two years ago. Lots of change. 2056 01:31:10,319 --> 01:31:12,880 Speaker 1: There have been injuries, there's been other performances from him that, 2057 01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:17,359 if not look so great, I could see why people 2058 01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:18,479 have issues. 2059 01:31:19,319 --> 01:31:20,840 Speaker 2: I think that the issues they have with. 2060 01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:22,760 Speaker 1: The Nuggets are gonna end up being wrong, though, where 2061 01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:23,960 I think a lot of attention is going to be 2062 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:24,319 paid to. 2063 01:31:24,319 --> 01:31:25,039 Speaker 2: Like the defense. 2064 01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:27,399 Speaker 1: I came out of the playoffs just feeling really good 2065 01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:29,880 about the state of their defense, as long as if 2066 01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,439 Aaron Gordon has like one leg or most of his 2067 01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:36,359 hamstrings intact. I feel pretty good about Denver's defense, assuming 2068 01:31:36,399 --> 01:31:38,399 yonas valan Chunas plays there. I think you're able to 2069 01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:41,239 buy time and space with Yolkic on the bench during 2070 01:31:41,239 --> 01:31:43,560 the regular season. I don't think he's going to be 2071 01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:45,479 as valuable in the playoffs or even close to it. 2072 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,920 That's something to consider. I might be a little Dayron 2073 01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,479 Holmes pilled too as well. I don't know if he 2074 01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,399 could play center. I've kind of gone back and forth 2075 01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:53,720 whether you should be next to a big, but I 2076 01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,039 really like him. So they're deeper and if you can 2077 01:31:56,039 --> 01:31:58,319 buy yourself time in the regular season, that's all you 2078 01:31:58,359 --> 01:32:00,880 need with Jokic, because we already saw that like that 2079 01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:02,800 wasn't even the best version of the Nuggets, and it 2080 01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:05,039 wasn't the best version of Okac. I would argue Jalen 2081 01:32:05,079 --> 01:32:07,079 Williams had what half a rist that he was playing 2082 01:32:07,079 --> 01:32:10,520 on or whatever it ended up being. But the things 2083 01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:13,560 that they can do, there's their their offense I think 2084 01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,840 should be slightly more dynamic. With the caveat of I 2085 01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:20,199 don't know where the the increase in on ball dynamism 2086 01:32:20,279 --> 01:32:22,359 is gonna come from, because I don't think Bruce Brown 2087 01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:24,760 can be that player. And it's just do you think 2088 01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:28,039 does Christian Brown scare scale up there? I don't want 2089 01:32:28,079 --> 01:32:30,920 to see Tim Hardaway Junior dribbling dribbling into pull up jumpers. 2090 01:32:31,199 --> 01:32:34,479 I also question offensively, I think Cameron Johnson, when you 2091 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,720 look at maybe the playmaking and the off ball movement 2092 01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,680 is an upgrade over Michael Porter Junior. On balance, I 2093 01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,119 don't know how much of an upgrade it is when 2094 01:32:41,119 --> 01:32:42,560 you look at the rebounding, when you look at the 2095 01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:43,880 defensive ceilings. 2096 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,079 Speaker 2: Everybody, I don't. I think a lot of people say 2097 01:32:46,079 --> 01:32:47,319 that Cam is just way better than. 2098 01:32:47,239 --> 01:32:50,119 Speaker 1: MPG on defense. I I don't see it. Maybe I'll 2099 01:32:50,159 --> 01:32:53,000 be wrong, So there's still some questions here. But I'm 2100 01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:55,800 also just like, Okay, see, as dominant as they were 2101 01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:59,800 at points, was a flog contender, and so I think 2102 01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,720 Peple might want to put the rockets on their level. 2103 01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:02,039 Speaker 2: I'm not. 2104 01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:04,680 Speaker 1: I can't get there. Just as as the foremost reed 2105 01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:07,479 Shepherd fan I'm not sure that I could get there, 2106 01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,800 But I look at this Denver team and if they're 2107 01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,279 able just to say, relatively healthy, I think that there's 2108 01:33:13,279 --> 01:33:16,159 a chance, like how many games that Aaron Gordon miss 2109 01:33:16,199 --> 01:33:18,319 last year, so we've not even seen the peak of 2110 01:33:18,359 --> 01:33:21,560 their defense just yet. I think the player that I 2111 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:23,479 might be most interested in, to just wrap it up 2112 01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:25,199 before I throw it to you, is just what is 2113 01:33:25,199 --> 01:33:28,399 Peyton Watson's role on this team, because that's someone who could, 2114 01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,479 if he's able to hit shots, turns the entire Again, 2115 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,199 I still don't know if it's like in terms of 2116 01:33:33,239 --> 01:33:35,840 just on ball dynamics, there's a chance that they're sort 2117 01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,039 of lacking there. And you could also make the Kings 2118 01:33:38,079 --> 01:33:40,399 like do they need another wing type on this team 2119 01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,199 or is it like more of a backup floor general 2120 01:33:42,199 --> 01:33:44,720 that you still want to see them get There's still 2121 01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,640 like maybe a hole that would give you some type 2122 01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:50,840 of unease. But man, I think this team has the 2123 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:54,439 potential to be like way better defensively than we're sort 2124 01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:55,520 of considering at the moment. 2125 01:33:57,199 --> 01:33:59,680 Speaker 3: So this will mess up your time stamping, I suppose, 2126 01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:03,560 But like the Nuggets, being in this tier is only 2127 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,560 surprising because I imagine a lot of people thought that 2128 01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,239 the Thunder would be in the top tier by themselves. 2129 01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,880 Speaker 2: So this is an impact what he said about the Pelicans. 2130 01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:18,439 Speaker 1: Derek, Derek Queen Well underwent surgery to repair a torn 2131 01:34:19,119 --> 01:34:23,119 scapio ligament and is going to miss the It's a 2132 01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:25,439 leftarous injury and he's gonna miss the next He'll be 2133 01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:26,960 reevaluated in twelve weeks. 2134 01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:29,079 Speaker 2: That's a bumber. 2135 01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,880 Speaker 4: Well, that is a huge bomber. 2136 01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,920 Speaker 3: And again, this isn't about Derek Queen, like, the trade 2137 01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,199 is not about him. It's about the Pelicans. Like that's 2138 01:34:38,199 --> 01:34:41,640 a terrible outcome for all parties involved. Uh, the trade 2139 01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,640 is no worse today than it was when they made it, 2140 01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,279 Like the process standpoint, So just to be now the 2141 01:34:48,319 --> 01:34:51,159 results are much worse, the process is as bad as 2142 01:34:51,159 --> 01:34:55,159 it could be. No, I so we can we let's 2143 01:34:55,159 --> 01:34:56,079 just put the Thunder up there. 2144 01:34:56,079 --> 01:34:58,960 Speaker 2: Obviously, Well get my second veto is putting them in 2145 01:34:59,039 --> 01:34:59,800 the f tre. 2146 01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:05,640 Speaker 3: So I did you did you give any thought to 2147 01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:07,800 having the Thunder alone in a tier? Because I think 2148 01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,239 a lot of I had it there initially, and then 2149 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:13,039 a lot of what you talked about with Denver specifically, 2150 01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:15,720 and some of the we had comments, you know, pointing 2151 01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,199 out that like Denver took them, took the Thunder to seven, 2152 01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:20,439 and they weren't the only team to take the Thunder 2153 01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:24,319 to seven. So like while the yeah, they they did, 2154 01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:27,119 you know, win a zillion games and they won the 2155 01:35:27,159 --> 01:35:30,399 title and whatever, like thought, we had thoughts about like 2156 01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:31,680 are the Thunder inevitable? 2157 01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:33,359 Speaker 4: And they did end up winning it, but. 2158 01:35:35,359 --> 01:35:38,359 Speaker 3: I do think that the West is closer at the 2159 01:35:38,399 --> 01:35:41,560 top than then It's just not fair to have the 2160 01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:43,439 Thunder in their own tier, they don't think. 2161 01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:45,640 Speaker 1: And why this is funny because I went on the 2162 01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:49,199 Red Nation Hoops podcast, which is not the podcast that 2163 01:35:49,239 --> 01:35:49,880 it might sound like. 2164 01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:53,000 Speaker 2: It's a Houston Rossi podcast. Uh, and I. 2165 01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:54,800 Speaker 1: Had the Thunder and a tier all their own, and 2166 01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:56,960 I had to argue me and Simon we're going back 2167 01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:58,880 and forth because he thinks the Rockets were closer to 2168 01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:01,159 them and I still don't believe that. But one the 2169 01:36:01,159 --> 01:36:03,319 more I sat on, I was like, his premise for 2170 01:36:03,399 --> 01:36:05,359 me is right. I just disagree with the team that 2171 01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:07,399 he thinks are on their own tier. 2172 01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:12,560 Speaker 3: I got you. Yeah, So the argument you would make 2173 01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:14,560 if you're saying the Thunder are in their own tier 2174 01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:17,600 relative to these other teams, And the one that kind 2175 01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,439 of convinced me until I thought about this a little harder, 2176 01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:27,079 is that they don't really have any situations with the 2177 01:36:27,079 --> 01:36:30,159 top end of their roster or even like the depth 2178 01:36:30,199 --> 01:36:33,279 of it that you're like, oh, this is a this 2179 01:36:33,319 --> 01:36:36,239 is a pivot point, or this is a question of like, yes, 2180 01:36:36,399 --> 01:36:39,600 if if Shay gets hurt or Jalen Williams doesn't recover 2181 01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:42,439 from this wrisk thing, or Chet has another catastrophic like 2182 01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:47,279 freak accident injury, of course, but like we've seen Jamal 2183 01:36:47,359 --> 01:36:51,319 Murray not be healthy and be unproductive for long stretches, 2184 01:36:51,359 --> 01:36:54,279 like Aaron Gordon, the injuries are piling up, like Jokicic 2185 01:36:54,399 --> 01:36:56,439 is a year old or not concerned about Yokics just 2186 01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:59,720 sort of throwing everything out there. And so like the 2187 01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:03,720 con concerns that I would have for Denver or the 2188 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:05,960 ways I could see things going wrong, there's just more 2189 01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,119 of those than I have for the Thunder. Who I 2190 01:37:08,119 --> 01:37:11,159 don't know, like every literally everyone could be better other 2191 01:37:11,239 --> 01:37:14,960 than like Alex Caruso maybe takes a step back. So 2192 01:37:15,079 --> 01:37:17,439 like that's the case you make for the Thunder, like 2193 01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:20,319 deserving to be separate from everybody, else here, But like 2194 01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:22,680 the results last year just are what they are. The 2195 01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,279 Thunder's offense kind of sucked for like a lot of 2196 01:37:25,319 --> 01:37:28,720 important games in the postseason, and I don't know that 2197 01:37:29,399 --> 01:37:32,119 there's that. They didn't really do anything to change that 2198 01:37:32,199 --> 01:37:34,279 other than hope that all their guys get better, which 2199 01:37:34,279 --> 01:37:37,920 again possibility, but like they're not. They're not like this 2200 01:37:38,079 --> 01:37:41,119 unbeatable juggernaut. Now watch them go be that. But at 2201 01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:44,239 the moment from here it does feel like Denver because 2202 01:37:44,239 --> 01:37:47,720 of the pedigree, because they have the best player like that, 2203 01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:50,520 there's enough there to make this a two team tier. 2204 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:53,600 The only question is should we just lump A and 2205 01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:55,600 the A tier and S here together and have the 2206 01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,359 Rockets and Wolves up there with those two w. 2207 01:37:57,840 --> 01:37:59,319 Speaker 1: Well, I can't put I wouldn't be able to put 2208 01:37:59,319 --> 01:38:00,600 the Wolves here. You could talk to me to the 2209 01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:03,159 Rockets easier, like they feel more so caught in between 2210 01:38:03,359 --> 01:38:06,800 B and A than in between A and SH. Just 2211 01:38:07,039 --> 01:38:09,560 I've man think about how many teams in the top Houston, 2212 01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:13,119 Minnesota and Okay, see, we just have offensive question marks 2213 01:38:13,119 --> 01:38:15,880 about Maybe Nico Harrison was right, grant you know what 2214 01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:18,039 also it is with the Thunder is I so if 2215 01:38:18,039 --> 01:38:20,479 you were to ask me, what's more likely that there 2216 01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:22,560 needs to be more than two teams in this S 2217 01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:24,680 tier or the Thunder in a tier all their own. 2218 01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:27,159 I default more to the Thunder being in a tier 2219 01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,039 all their own would be more likely. I agree with 2220 01:38:30,079 --> 01:38:32,199 everything you said, and like they didn't make any changes, 2221 01:38:32,199 --> 01:38:34,479 and you also can't trust and they kind of just 2222 01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,800 prove they don't need to, like if they know what 2223 01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:41,359 they need in theory, but they're not gonna necessarily go 2224 01:38:41,399 --> 01:38:44,560 out and make these big mid season moves. At the 2225 01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:46,000 same time, I kind of see in the chat like, oh, 2226 01:38:46,039 --> 01:38:49,000 look at the non SGA minutes. Those actually kind of 2227 01:38:49,039 --> 01:38:51,640 remedied themselves last year. That's like, cause it feels like 2228 01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:53,119 we're gonna skip over the Thunder a little bit and 2229 01:38:53,119 --> 01:38:54,720 not talk about them because they just won the title, 2230 01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:57,239 that you can't not have them an S tier. But 2231 01:38:57,359 --> 01:39:00,520 like they when they had Jalen Williams with another big 2232 01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,359 where it was Chet or it was Isaiah Hartenstein, they 2233 01:39:03,359 --> 01:39:05,119 were able, Like you got to a point where you 2234 01:39:05,159 --> 01:39:07,800 were winning those you're winning those minutes anyway, but you 2235 01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:09,680 got to a point where the offense was creeping two 2236 01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:12,600 league average or better. And when Jalen Williams is so young, 2237 01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:15,039 when Chet is so young, when you could still get 2238 01:39:15,119 --> 01:39:18,319 someone to pop from the case and Wallace or it's 2239 01:39:18,359 --> 01:39:21,800 like the aj Mitchell is a player you can get better, 2240 01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:23,680 And so sometimes I feel like we don't consider that 2241 01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:26,600 the Thunder didn't make any changes. They still the same flaws. 2242 01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:28,520 But just as Houston has a lot of guys that 2243 01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:31,560 could get better, sort of the Thunder, I find I 2244 01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,520 just find the Nuggets interesting because I don't have we 2245 01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:35,520 even mentioned his name more than once at this point, 2246 01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:39,640 Joki is still the best player in the world. Yeah, 2247 01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:42,000 And I like, if you're gonna give him more guys 2248 01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:44,439 than Tim Hardaway Junior and Bruce Brown and Cam Johnson 2249 01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:45,760 as well, even if he's replacing a lot of what 2250 01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,279 Michael Porter Junior did that can move off the ball. 2251 01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:51,479 Where I find myself again, I know it's Jokic, but 2252 01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:55,039 I find myself worried that they're still not built for 2253 01:39:55,159 --> 01:39:58,079 him to not do too much, Like it still feels 2254 01:39:58,079 --> 01:40:00,640 like they're like too far dependent on him. A lot 2255 01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:02,239 of that might come back to Jamal Murray. We know 2256 01:40:02,319 --> 01:40:04,880 what his highs look like. The fact that he didn't 2257 01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:07,199 sign an extension though, does that open the door for 2258 01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:09,560 things like they need to fuss and fiddle. They do 2259 01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:11,880 have this flexibility because of the whole point of getting 2260 01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:14,039 out off of Michael Porter Junior was it gave them 2261 01:40:14,199 --> 01:40:16,640 that other flexibility. The thing I will not hear though, 2262 01:40:17,039 --> 01:40:18,720 is that, well, now they can sign players who get 2263 01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:19,159 bought out. 2264 01:40:19,199 --> 01:40:20,640 Speaker 2: Who was the last buyout guy? 2265 01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:22,600 Speaker 1: First of all, you don't make that case to me 2266 01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:24,359 before they actually signed the buyout guy. 2267 01:40:24,359 --> 01:40:25,399 Speaker 2: I will not listen to it. 2268 01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:28,880 Speaker 1: Who's the last buyout guy to do anything meaningful in 2269 01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:29,520 the playoffs? 2270 01:40:30,079 --> 01:40:33,000 Speaker 3: I can't even begin to remember who. 2271 01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:35,600 Speaker 1: So I just and look even in the chat, like 2272 01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:38,039 just to kind of pump up Denver's cases, like NPJ 2273 01:40:38,239 --> 01:40:40,800 was playing on that really bummed shoulder, Russ had a 2274 01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:43,600 broken hand, but like the Russell Westbrook absence, I think 2275 01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,199 you can argue that helps them in the playoffs, But 2276 01:40:45,239 --> 01:40:47,880 to get through the regular season. I find myself on like, okay, 2277 01:40:48,359 --> 01:40:51,439 backup or secondary ballhand, like it's Jamal Murray, it's Jokic. 2278 01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:53,560 And then who do you want doing all of this? 2279 01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:55,039 Like is it Bruce Brown? 2280 01:40:55,159 --> 01:40:55,760 Speaker 2: Like if that's the. 2281 01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:58,279 Speaker 1: Answer, there's the floor who fall out from underneath them 2282 01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,119 a little bit? But I love the Nuggets as a team, 2283 01:41:01,159 --> 01:41:03,479 even if it's a weird thing where I think their 2284 01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:06,479 off season has been just overblown in terms of how 2285 01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,479 like genius it was. But I think that they're the 2286 01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:12,239 clear second best team in the West and closer to 2287 01:41:12,319 --> 01:41:14,439 the Thunder than they are further away from the Thunder. 2288 01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:19,000 Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say that they have, like 2289 01:41:19,279 --> 01:41:21,680 I want to say, like significantly more talent, but like 2290 01:41:22,039 --> 01:41:26,159 you know, Hardaway, Brown Valentunis aren't necessarily needle movers individually, 2291 01:41:26,359 --> 01:41:29,199 like I think they're just better than their options used 2292 01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:31,760 to be, and we've seen over and over again, like 2293 01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:34,800 Jokic doesn't need much, like he just needs some functional 2294 01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:37,039 bodies out there and he'll like make it work a 2295 01:41:37,039 --> 01:41:39,920 player like Hardaway, who neither of us is like loved, 2296 01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:43,239 but like Yokic is gonna get hard Away great shots 2297 01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,520 like that's just and Hardaway can make shots, so like 2298 01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:46,960 I don't. 2299 01:41:47,319 --> 01:41:50,319 Speaker 1: He's like he's like a less like he's streaky, but 2300 01:41:50,359 --> 01:41:53,399 he's slightly less streaky than Juliet Strath at this stage, 2301 01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:54,880 which is which is why it. 2302 01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:56,840 Speaker 2: Helps, which is why is this. 2303 01:41:57,159 --> 01:41:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you know what the move is that 2304 01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:00,640 would make me be like, oh, I love this team, 2305 01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:02,439 and I don't think he wants to leave them, Like 2306 01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:05,159 this is the Chris Paul team. To me, you want 2307 01:42:05,159 --> 01:42:06,920 to want someone to come in and matter the offense, 2308 01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:08,680 like this is the Chris. I know he wants to 2309 01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:11,800 play closer to his family. I totally get that, But 2310 01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:15,000 I think I do think that the Jokic extension thing, though, 2311 01:42:15,039 --> 01:42:17,199 is like just there's an undercurrent to it in the 2312 01:42:17,239 --> 01:42:19,119 regular season where so, oh, he can guarantee himself more 2313 01:42:19,119 --> 01:42:20,319 money next year, That's why he did it. 2314 01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:23,039 Speaker 2: Sure, but he's kind of also seen that, like can 2315 01:42:23,079 --> 01:42:24,600 I really trust the front office to make the right 2316 01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:25,199 decisions here? 2317 01:42:25,239 --> 01:42:28,039 Speaker 1: So maybe that forces them to operate. Like think about 2318 01:42:28,079 --> 01:42:30,079 what they did with all that extra flexibility they have, 2319 01:42:30,199 --> 01:42:33,760 like kind of carved out last year, like following the casey, 2320 01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:34,960 like letting casep go. 2321 01:42:35,399 --> 01:42:37,239 Speaker 2: It kind of puts. It puts. Whether they use it 2322 01:42:37,319 --> 01:42:38,880 or not, it remains to be seen. 2323 01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:40,199 Speaker 1: But I actually think it's a good thing he didn't 2324 01:42:40,199 --> 01:42:43,119 sign the extension beyond just financial reasons. 2325 01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:47,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, no, I'm I was thinking of doing this. 2326 01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:49,720 I'm glad you did it. I'm glad you moved Denver up. 2327 01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:51,760 I feel like that's the right spot, would you no 2328 01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:52,720 shots at the team. 2329 01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:53,199 Speaker 2: Have any kids? 2330 01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:56,000 Speaker 1: Like, is there even a case though, to put Denver 2331 01:42:56,039 --> 01:42:58,720 above the Thunder. I can't, I can't even begin to. 2332 01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:02,479 Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. I just think from the perspective of 2333 01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:06,680 it's much easier to imagine things going wrong with Denver, 2334 01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:11,039 Like Denver's core players aren't going to improve, and I 2335 01:43:11,079 --> 01:43:13,239 think the fact that a lot of the Thunders might 2336 01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:15,960 is just like that puts them over the top. In 2337 01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:17,720 addition to they won the whole thing and they won 2338 01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:19,279 six sixty eight games. 2339 01:43:19,079 --> 01:43:19,720 Speaker 2: Or whatever it was. 2340 01:43:20,359 --> 01:43:22,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, they deserve to be up there. I and I 2341 01:43:22,399 --> 01:43:27,439 just I think I couldn't quite get Denver above them, 2342 01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:30,680 like maybe in the regular Noah, Denver doesn't really care 2343 01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:32,600 that much about the regular season. I was gonna say, 2344 01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:34,399 I think the Thunder have a shot to win like 2345 01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,279 quite a few fewer regular season games, but actually just 2346 01:43:37,319 --> 01:43:39,800 be a better playoff team because they very clearly know 2347 01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,479 what they need to fix, you know, But that's. 2348 01:43:42,399 --> 01:43:44,439 Speaker 1: I know, we talked about it a bunch at this point, 2349 01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:46,600 But do you, like, what do you make of the 2350 01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,640 Cam Johnson for MPJ swap, Like where do you where 2351 01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:51,880 do you think that it actually improves the nuggets or 2352 01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:53,840 do you think it ends up being sort of a 2353 01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:56,319 phone It's it's clearly not a financial wash and you 2354 01:43:56,359 --> 01:43:58,560 but like, just where are you at on that after 2355 01:43:58,560 --> 01:43:59,399 thinking about it more? 2356 01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:01,880 Speaker 3: I think sitting on it for a little while now, 2357 01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:05,600 where I've landed is I don't think there's a good 2358 01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:09,479 argument that it improves them, Like specifically, I don't think 2359 01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:14,840 you can say Cam Johnson's definitely better than MPJ. MPJ 2360 01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:16,880 has been more durable, like that's you know, we talked 2361 01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:19,039 about this when it happened. It's like that so missed 2362 01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:20,800 me with that one, at least over the last couple 2363 01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:27,399 of years. But if it is true that the savings 2364 01:44:28,319 --> 01:44:30,880 was the REA, like had they weren't gonna go get 2365 01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,840 Bruce brown and Tim Hardaway and Jonas valance units. Had 2366 01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:34,920 they not saved MO, they. 2367 01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:37,359 Speaker 2: Couldn't make the trade without doing that. 2368 01:44:37,399 --> 01:44:39,880 Speaker 1: They could have absolutely signed right Tim Hardaway Junior, Bruce 2369 01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:41,960 Browner on minimums that had nothing to do with the 2370 01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:42,439 the MPJ. 2371 01:44:43,279 --> 01:44:44,920 Speaker 4: That's the thing is it needs the money. 2372 01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:48,199 Speaker 3: The savings needs to be about where we intend to 2373 01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:51,000 do something with this as opposed to the kron Keys 2374 01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:53,720 just pay less like that. Because if that's the case, 2375 01:44:53,720 --> 01:44:56,159 then I don't like the trade, but especially like that 2376 01:44:56,159 --> 01:44:56,680 twenty thirty. 2377 01:44:57,560 --> 01:45:00,159 Speaker 1: I can't see versions of this from this is Dever's roh, 2378 01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:01,560 Cam is way better defender? 2379 01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:02,039 Speaker 2: Okay? 2380 01:45:02,279 --> 01:45:05,039 Speaker 1: How that's all I keep seeing is people posting that 2381 01:45:05,119 --> 01:45:07,359 and then posting percent tiles on like b ball index 2382 01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:10,600 is great or like posting I just tell me where 2383 01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:13,880 Cam Johnson is in the playoffs specific where has he 2384 01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:15,840 been a like a better defender. 2385 01:45:16,119 --> 01:45:18,159 Speaker 2: I just like, I'm this is. 2386 01:45:18,119 --> 01:45:20,239 Speaker 1: Not that I like think Camp Johnson a really good player, 2387 01:45:20,279 --> 01:45:23,000 but to talk in absolutes about the Denver offseason, I 2388 01:45:23,039 --> 01:45:25,399 think is why it's put a bad taste in my mouth. 2389 01:45:25,399 --> 01:45:28,039 It's just like, oh, no, you punted on a really 2390 01:45:28,119 --> 01:45:31,600 valuable asset so that you could get Cam Johnson and 2391 01:45:32,159 --> 01:45:34,720 uh Jonas valentiunis and give up like to and get 2392 01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:35,399 off Michael. 2393 01:45:35,199 --> 01:45:37,439 Speaker 2: Porter Junior's money. If you're sitting here and you believe 2394 01:45:37,479 --> 01:45:38,119 that was the. 2395 01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:40,640 Speaker 1: Only call they like, you need to believe that, Like 2396 01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:43,119 how much did that at You're better, You're deeper? How 2397 01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:45,520 much differently do you feel about this team as we're 2398 01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:46,479 talking about them right now? 2399 01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:47,399 Speaker 2: They're title equity. 2400 01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:50,760 Speaker 1: If they're sitting on not Yonas, Valentiunis and Cam and 2401 01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:53,159 it's mpg's like, how much does that actually change their 2402 01:45:53,199 --> 01:45:54,119 title equity to you? 2403 01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:58,399 Speaker 3: That's the thing. Yeah, it's funny, like I feel like 2404 01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:02,039 they're perceived tie equity is greater, but I don't know 2405 01:46:02,079 --> 01:46:04,359 if actually it really is because it because it just had. 2406 01:46:04,279 --> 01:46:05,960 Speaker 1: To give up a twenty thirty two pick to bump 2407 01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:08,920 it up by like dal Mory's not even trading it 2408 01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:10,359 to move it up one or two percent. 2409 01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think that's I think it's right. That's right, 2410 01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:17,159 Like it just feels like a big difference because I 2411 01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:19,880 don't know, had they just basically run it back, we 2412 01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:22,800 would have just would have somehow felt like they they 2413 01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:26,039 can't possibly be any better, you know, and maybe that's wrong, 2414 01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:29,079 but just because they're a little different, and I do, 2415 01:46:29,239 --> 01:46:31,279 I do think again this is independent of the trade 2416 01:46:31,279 --> 01:46:33,520 because it didn't like enable this to happen, I don't think. 2417 01:46:34,359 --> 01:46:37,479 But like Hardaway and Brown, I think I just expect 2418 01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:40,960 them to be like pretty good versions of themselves because 2419 01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:44,399 of playing with JOKICU. So yeah, I think they're there. 2420 01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:46,119 Title equity is greater. I don't know if it's greater 2421 01:46:46,119 --> 01:46:47,319 because of the trade because. 2422 01:46:47,119 --> 01:46:49,000 Speaker 1: I just you can say, oh, this makes it more 2423 01:46:49,079 --> 01:46:52,000 likely one I think they're like twelve million, or if 2424 01:46:52,039 --> 01:46:53,720 you put in the cap holes for Peyton Watson and 2425 01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:55,720 Christian Brown. A lot of my framing I've seen is, oh, 2426 01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:57,880 getting rid of that contract makes it more likely they're 2427 01:46:57,920 --> 01:46:59,640 going to stay out of the second Aprin resigned Brown 2428 01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:01,880 and wats unless you think Brown and Watson are gonna 2429 01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:04,319 make like a combined let's say thirty million, and I 2430 01:47:04,319 --> 01:47:07,119 would bet the over on that they're still. 2431 01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:08,279 Speaker 2: Gonna have Second Apron concerns. 2432 01:47:08,319 --> 01:47:11,079 Speaker 1: And also that's not about this season then, and if 2433 01:47:11,079 --> 01:47:13,359 you have Nicola Jokic, everything needs to be about the 2434 01:47:13,399 --> 01:47:17,319 season that you're entering. So well, look, I'm open to it. 2435 01:47:17,399 --> 01:47:19,880 Everyone who's mad, I mean one, get over it. Like 2436 01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:21,680 we're allowed to have a difference of opinion. But like 2437 01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:24,439 I think Michael Porter Junior was underrated during their title run. 2438 01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:26,479 I think as a rebounder of stuff he could do 2439 01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,039 as like a lower guy at points, probably didn't shine 2440 01:47:29,039 --> 01:47:31,520 through as much last year. I just I think there's 2441 01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:34,640 a chance that to sit here and say Cam is 2442 01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:37,560 a massive upgrade over MPJA, I think you need to 2443 01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:39,600 say absolute and not want to see it play out. 2444 01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:42,000 I don't really get it, but I have them as 2445 01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:43,640 the second best team in the West and people will 2446 01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:46,079 still be mad about it. Yes, I've never watched Denver games. 2447 01:47:46,119 --> 01:47:47,720 Just get the fuck out of here, Like, come on, 2448 01:47:48,079 --> 01:47:49,520 you're this is loser shit. 2449 01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:52,399 Speaker 2: We're allowed to have difference of opinion, like I just don't. 2450 01:47:52,840 --> 01:47:54,880 Speaker 3: Oh, he's not going Denver Sports isn't going at you. 2451 01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:58,560 Denver Sports is defending the Nuggets against the Oh. 2452 01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:00,680 Speaker 1: I apologize that, Denver Sports. That was an over the 2453 01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:04,119 top reaction and you did not deserve that. I'm out 2454 01:48:04,119 --> 01:48:04,960 of the Nuggets club. 2455 01:48:05,159 --> 01:48:05,720 Speaker 2: That's fine. 2456 01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:09,159 Speaker 3: Oh no, you have to turn in your gun and 2457 01:48:09,199 --> 01:48:10,159 badge too bad. 2458 01:48:10,359 --> 01:48:12,239 Speaker 2: Do you have anything else? Do you read? Do you 2459 01:48:12,279 --> 01:48:13,720 want to recap for us really quick? 2460 01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:16,159 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, so Jazz? 2461 01:48:16,279 --> 01:48:19,159 Speaker 3: The Jazz are alone. Sorry, fellas. In the F tier 2462 01:48:19,279 --> 01:48:21,760 down at the bottom, the three teams in the tier 2463 01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:24,640 above that are the Suns, Kings, and Pelicans. Glad we 2464 01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:28,000 landed on the Pelicans in the correct tier above them. 2465 01:48:28,079 --> 01:48:31,680 In C tier, we've got Dallas, San Antonio, Memphis, Portland 2466 01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:34,920 probably the most interesting tier just because who knows. With 2467 01:48:35,039 --> 01:48:37,680 those teams above that. In the B tier, this is. 2468 01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:39,840 These are teams we would imagine are competing for a 2469 01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:43,199 top six spot, Clippers, Warriors, Lakers. Lakers had to get 2470 01:48:43,239 --> 01:48:46,079 there via a veto by me. Dan hated it, so 2471 01:48:46,119 --> 01:48:49,439 I love it. The tier above that just too. We've 2472 01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:52,760 got Houston and Minnesota. These are your top four West teams. 2473 01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:54,840 Like if they're not up in that mix, something something 2474 01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:59,039 went sideways and finally s Tier championship or bust. We 2475 01:48:59,079 --> 01:49:01,399 have the thunder with the Ugets, which maybe is surprising 2476 01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:03,399 to some people, but we talked it out and it 2477 01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:04,840 is the correct place we could. 2478 01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, unimpeachable. 2479 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,680 Speaker 1: Our takes there. Yeah, do you have anything else to 2480 01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:10,359 add or you ready to take us out? Sub two 2481 01:49:10,359 --> 01:49:11,079 hours for us? 2482 01:49:11,239 --> 01:49:15,199 Speaker 3: That work pretty good, pretty good despite our technical difficulties. 2483 01:49:15,199 --> 01:49:17,079 Thanks everybody for bearing with us, Thanks for all the 2484 01:49:17,279 --> 01:49:19,840 what a robust chat we had today. The Western Conference 2485 01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:22,319 showed up. Get it Get it together, Eastern Conference fans. 2486 01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:25,479 If you would like to be more engaged with the pod, 2487 01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:27,159 join our discord links for that in the YouTube and 2488 01:49:27,199 --> 01:49:31,199 podcast description. Wherever you're consuming this, you're doing an audio 2489 01:49:31,239 --> 01:49:33,600 rate review. Subscribe, give us a thumbs up, give us 2490 01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:34,640 a five star rating. 2491 01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:36,079 Speaker 4: Wherever you're checking this out. 2492 01:49:36,520 --> 01:49:37,600 Speaker 2: Let us know what you think about the. 2493 01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:39,520 Speaker 3: Tears on YouTube and the comments there. 2494 01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:41,520 Speaker 4: Tell your friends, tell your enemies. 2495 01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:42,800 Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it. 2496 01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:45,439 Speaker 3: Thanks everybody, shouts for Frink nol Keen apologies Jared Allen