Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Justice talking always
Speaker 1: like a bat, be off culture chaos and you saved legs.
Speaker 2: Like a lost stream.
Speaker 1: Well Ryan, wait what nothing?
Speaker 2: Nothing?
Speaker 1: Sorry, No, when you have something to say, go for it.
Speaker 2: I was talking to the behind the scenes team. Sorry
Speaker 2: my bad.
Speaker 1: Why don't you Why don't you explain your current situation?
Speaker 2: My current situation. Oh, I'm in New Hampshire dog sitting.
Speaker 2: They did not give me permission to share.
Speaker 1: That, so, oh, you can't share the dogs names.
Speaker 2: The dogs did not reforremshing to hear that, So that's
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Well, that's very so I like not having a dog.
Speaker 1: I didn't know years ago that when you know, like
Speaker 1: I know, dogs are more high maintenance than a cat.
Speaker 1: But with the cats, I would just leave for days.
Speaker 1: But with a dog, I figured, like, oh, you got
Speaker 1: to check on them once a day. But like, dog
Speaker 1: sitters live at your house, which I did not realize that,
Speaker 1: which is crazy. I mean, you're not You're doing it
Speaker 1: for a family member, which is very kind, but that's
Speaker 1: really intense.
Speaker 2: They're I mean, these guys are I mean, surprisingly for
Speaker 2: the size of them, they're very low key. They're not
Speaker 2: like too, like over a maintenanced I just think it's
Speaker 2: the case of them getting used to you is just
Speaker 2: the hardest part of it. It's like, Okay, who the
Speaker 2: fuck is this person here? But I couldn't imagine like
Speaker 2: bringing them to another house like that would be for them.
Speaker 2: That must be brutal. It's must be.
Speaker 1: Well, they're both pretty large and hairy from the looks.
Speaker 2: Of it, very much so, so I'm on their turf,
Speaker 2: which is totally fine. I will follow the rules, but
Speaker 2: if they break them, I am not going to enforce them.
Speaker 2: That's what I was. That's what I told the parents
Speaker 2: of the dogs, just so you know clearly I'm on
Speaker 2: their turf.
Speaker 1: Especially when you're doing it for free. Like when I
Speaker 1: would babysit. I don't really babysit a lot anymore because
Speaker 1: a my nieces are older, but also be they live
Speaker 1: like over an hour away. But when they used to
Speaker 1: live in Charlestown and I lived in Charlestown, I would
Speaker 1: babysit them all the time, and Megan would Megan would
Speaker 1: be like, don't have them watch TV the whole time,
Speaker 1: and I would say, I'm gonna do whatever I want
Speaker 1: because you're you're not here and I'm babysitting for free.
Speaker 1: So then Megan would be like, all right, like, because
Speaker 1: what do you say to that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: But we would watch TV the whole time, and then
Speaker 1: I would give them ice cream because who cares?
Speaker 2: This? The tone here is much more you are not
Speaker 2: doing what we need you to do, so we will
Speaker 2: make you do it. That is how think copy go
Speaker 2: about things.
Speaker 1: It's actually not that different with kids, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of just a little bark enough.
Speaker 2: But they're very good dudes and very low maintenance guys.
Speaker 1: So well as Huey Lewis, I believe it. Huey Lewis said,
Speaker 1: this is it. This is the podcast I've been waiting
Speaker 1: for for almost a decade. It's like six hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty episodes. And to mark this occasion, I'm having the
Speaker 1: most expensive liquor in my house, which I believe this
Speaker 1: is awful. I hope I'm getting this right. I believe
Speaker 1: Pep gave this to me for my birthday. If I'm
Speaker 1: wrong and you're listening and you gave it to me,
Speaker 1: feel free to correct correct. But it's the The Tear
Speaker 1: Canal Tier Connell The Teerconnell Teerconnell single malt Irish whiskey,
Speaker 1: aged ten years. I had never had this before getting
Speaker 1: it as a gift, and it is fucking awesome. It's
Speaker 1: really hard to not drink. Like Andy Juno collects really
Speaker 1: nice whiskeys, and I want to do that, but I
Speaker 1: can't because I just drink them. We actually have a
Speaker 1: rule now that there's no hard liquor allowed in the
Speaker 1: house because and it's not like Shannon's not much better
Speaker 1: than me, but I just drink it, and Shannon drinks
Speaker 1: the two. So the rule is like, we can't avoc
Speaker 1: him if we have. If I buy a handle of
Speaker 1: vodka right now, it would be gone in forty eight hours. Wow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we can't. It's it's too dangerous, so we don't. We
Speaker 1: don't allow hard liquor in the house anymore. I don't
Speaker 1: need it. But this is a special occasion and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna toast Ryan to you. This is the Dark Knight
Speaker 1: Pod t DK t DK and we got a lot
Speaker 1: of feedback, a lot of letters from the Batman Begins pod,
Speaker 1: so people are really enjoying it. I'm gonna read a
Speaker 1: few of them. These are the letters that were mailed
Speaker 1: in to me. Jimmy, shut up, Ryan, don't don't don't
Speaker 1: go behind the scenes and ruin it for the listen. Oh,
Speaker 1: I was not even no, I haven't put it out yet.
Speaker 1: But dude, I haven't put it out yet Ryan, But.
Speaker 2: Uh, I mean Joe sh Love does call him over recording,
Speaker 2: so there's something out there.
Speaker 1: Well, by the time this is put out, they will
Speaker 1: be put out. And the letters I receiver from the
Speaker 1: Patreon listeners who got to listen to the Drek Knight
Speaker 1: Potter early Okay, this is Jimmy from Denver wrote, lifelong
Speaker 1: sets her fan. Finally the man is getting some recognition.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, Thank you. Jimmy. Jonah from Kansas City said
Speaker 1: I can't wait to jump driving Whale through this whole series.
Speaker 1: It's very nice. Paula Paula from Wichita wrote, Paula's in
Speaker 1: the ice box looking for a Dark Knight pod. Well,
Speaker 1: don't worry, paul It. She sure was. She she sure was. Yikes,
Speaker 1: she sure will. Two on from Vietnam wrote, we all
Speaker 1: love you here. When are you visiting?
Speaker 2: That is true? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right yeah. And then finally, Joe Schlub writes in you
Speaker 1: were very dismissive of the Swing Revive all it was
Speaker 1: featured in more movies than just Swing Kids, you left
Speaker 1: out the mask and also Swingers fuck you.
Speaker 2: He is not wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's very true.
Speaker 2: But he's not wrong.
Speaker 1: I wrote a note because we're talking about how while
Speaker 1: you're waiting for the Imax to play, they play the
Speaker 1: Swing Revival song Zoo two Riot. They also play the
Speaker 1: Dirty Boogie, don't they? Yes, Yeah, isn't that Brian.
Speaker 2: Setzer Any insanely annoying song is played in that Preyo
Speaker 2: to the day to this day it's insane.
Speaker 1: That's like the only place I've ever heard the dirt
Speaker 1: the Dirty Boogey, and like the spotlight is moving around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I have enough to do that yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Which, I saw this in the IMAX Great transition,
Speaker 1: and I forgot to mention at the end of The
Speaker 1: Dark Knight pod, I don't think I mentioned my joke
Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed where I at the end of
Speaker 1: the movie, Commissioner Gordon says, I forgot to think, Uh,
Speaker 1: what does he say? I never thanked you? He says
Speaker 1: at the end of The Dark Knight, I never thanked you,
Speaker 1: And Batman says, and you'll never have to, But can
Speaker 1: you venmo me like thirty Bucks?
Speaker 2: I mean, he just he just lost Wayne Manner, so
Speaker 2: he's probably down.
Speaker 1: If if Batman asked Commissioner Gordon for thirty Bucks, Commissioner
Speaker 1: Gordon would be so concerned, deeply, deeply concerned.
Speaker 2: And he knows it's happening again. He knows it's going
Speaker 2: to happen again.
Speaker 1: But we we You said it will take an entire
Speaker 1: episode to do this, and it might. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not anticipating that, but it might. You wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about at length the build up to The Dark Knight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember where and when you saw The Dark
Speaker 1: Knight for the first time?
Speaker 2: I do. I saw Midnight Show in Imax and.
Speaker 1: Reading and read and reading is how's and reading?
Speaker 2: Sorry?
Speaker 1: But what what year did Dark Knight was two thousand.
Speaker 2: And eight, right, yep, Summer of two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Summer of two thousand and eight, So I just graduated
Speaker 1: college and Dark Knight Sorry, Dark Knight Batman Begins was
Speaker 1: five Yeah, okay, so there's a three year build up
Speaker 1: where at the end of the of Begins we realized
Speaker 1: this next movie is going to be about the Joker,
Speaker 1: and everybody was like, Holy Mother of God. So I
Speaker 1: wrote down a timeline, but why don't you start discussing
Speaker 1: the build up while I pull this up?
Speaker 2: Ryan, Sure, I'm sure your timeline will correct a lot
Speaker 2: of this. So, like you said, the ending occurs three years,
Speaker 2: I'd say like maybe like six oh seven. You start
Speaker 2: getting more of the announcements of casting who's going to
Speaker 2: be in it. First of actually a lot of the
Speaker 2: announcements are going to be are they going to do
Speaker 2: another one? Because again we said before, Like I said before,
Speaker 2: begins to not make a ton of money. I don't
Speaker 2: think it was as big as success as they wanted
Speaker 2: it to be, but I can't imagine they were doubting it.
Speaker 2: But I knew it was not considered to be a massive,
Speaker 2: massive hit. So then I think, oh six, because they
Speaker 2: must have shot it. Then they start doing a lot
Speaker 2: of the casting announcements in the movie. And I think
Speaker 2: the first thing about this movie too, specifically is they
Speaker 2: confirmed the title of this movie. That probably was the
Speaker 2: initial hype starter. I thought that they were just going
Speaker 2: to call it The Dark Knight, in which we all
Speaker 2: erupted with joy, and it was going to be going
Speaker 2: for something different, not the style we saw a Batman Begins.
Speaker 2: That was the big kind of announcement about it that
Speaker 2: no one had made. I think after that is they
Speaker 2: announced they're doing I think they announced it. That could
Speaker 2: be wrong. I know they announce obviously they knew the Joker,
Speaker 2: but I think they announced they are also doing two
Speaker 2: Face in the same movie. And I think kind of
Speaker 2: a smart idea about Batman Begins was not starting with
Speaker 2: villains that we had seen in the movies before, so
Speaker 2: they were like, Okay, we're doing two heavy hitters in
Speaker 2: this movie. I could be wrong about the two face part.
Speaker 2: Then after that, and I'm sure I know we talked
Speaker 2: about this a lot on the Heath Ledger of podcast,
Speaker 2: but a big thing is the announcement of Heath Ledger
Speaker 2: playing the Joker and the kind of discussions that strung
Speaker 2: up after. And I think they announced it, and then
Speaker 2: I think, do they release the photo at the same
Speaker 2: time or no, is it after they announced it.
Speaker 1: I don't totally remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think they knew the photo was
Speaker 2: not too long after, because they did the same thing
Speaker 2: with Bain where they released this kind of black and
Speaker 2: white and red photo of him, and it's just very
Speaker 2: it's very like it's not like an actual photo. It's
Speaker 2: much more of like block out the background and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. But there was just a lot of like
Speaker 2: casting talk around this movie in general. Who was going
Speaker 2: to play the Joker. There was rumors that like Robin
Speaker 2: Williams wanted to play him because he had been in
Speaker 2: Insomnia and he always wanted to play that kind of character.
Speaker 2: He gets strung along during the first Batman movie with that,
Speaker 2: and there was this other comedian guy. There was rumors
Speaker 2: of Sean Penn. There was just always this kind of
Speaker 2: like you don't know how true they were, but ideas
Speaker 2: of who was going to play him. And then when
Speaker 2: they announced Heith Ledger, as we talked about, there was
Speaker 2: a lot of controversy about that in terms of people
Speaker 2: thinking could he do it, because at the time there
Speaker 2: was only really in terms of movies that Nicholson that
Speaker 2: was so iconic and famous.
Speaker 1: So I was doing research. I asked AI, like, what
Speaker 1: were the big pushbacks from Ledger's casting, and it said
Speaker 1: Ledger was mostly known in the American public as a
Speaker 1: romantic lead, which is complete bullshit. By the way, he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a history of playing villains. Jack Nicholson's Shadow.
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson's Joker was so iconic in the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: nine Batman that nobody thought anyone could be able to
Speaker 1: live up to that, never mind be way better as
Speaker 1: it turned out to be, and early early Internet culture
Speaker 1: backlash message boards lit up saying it was a miscast.
Speaker 1: People were outraged. It was very similar to the tone
Speaker 1: of the initial outrage of Michael Keaton being cast as
Speaker 1: Batman in nineteen eighty nine, which is which is a
Speaker 1: great point. But I've said this a million times on
Speaker 1: the pod. I'm often wrong. I'm very very wrong a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, but a broken clock is right
Speaker 1: twice a day. Probably the most right I've ever been
Speaker 1: is I was telling everyone that had any idea about
Speaker 1: like movies or comics or whatever. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: Keith Fledger is going to fucking crush the Joker. And
Speaker 1: it was because I had seen like every heath Ledger
Speaker 1: movie he had ever done, and we have a whole
Speaker 1: heath Ledger podcast series. But he was in A Night's
Speaker 1: Tale in two thousand and one, which is a pretty
Speaker 1: like cookie cutter role. But then he played Billy Bob
Speaker 1: Thornton's son and Monsters Ball, which was just a yeah,
Speaker 1: oh is right Ryan. He played the famous Australian outlaw
Speaker 1: Ned Kelly. He was in Lords of Dogtown, which is
Speaker 1: one of your favorite roles of his ever. He completely
Speaker 1: transformed himself in that role. He was in Broke Back Mountain,
Speaker 1: which is hello, Like, to pull off Ennis and Broke
Speaker 1: Back Mountain, you have to be an acting god to
Speaker 1: pull off that role.
Speaker 2: Nominated for an Oscar that year for it, yep.
Speaker 1: Like you're a complete introvert, stoic cowboy who's undergoing a
Speaker 1: hurricane of inner turmoil that you can't show, but you
Speaker 1: do kind of have to show. That's really really challenging
Speaker 1: to do. Then he was in Candy, where he plays
Speaker 1: a drug addict, and he was in I'm Not There,
Speaker 1: and then following following that, The Dark Knight. So I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think of there's any other ten things I
Speaker 1: hate about you. He was awesome even though it's like
Speaker 1: not a super challenging role. He has an Australian accent,
Speaker 1: he's very charismatic. He's a very very charismatic guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and to go with your comment earlier, I was
Speaker 2: one of the people who is like, I don't see it.
Speaker 2: I had not seen Broke Back Mountain, I had not
Speaker 2: seen The Lords of dog Town at the time, I
Speaker 2: had only really seen ten things. I had seen Monster's Ball.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't see it.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't gonna call you out because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to be a dickhead. But I remember having this
Speaker 1: conversation with you, and I remember Paul. I feel like
Speaker 1: Paul was the same way, but not as strongly as you.
Speaker 1: I think he was like I don't remember, but I
Speaker 1: think Paul was disappointed with the choice, and I was
Speaker 1: telling you both, like, no, you were wrong. He is
Speaker 1: going to be great. So he was cast. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, Oh Wow, filming and viral marketing began
Speaker 1: where it was filmed in Chicago. They started the why
Speaker 1: So Serious viral campaign, which is one of the most
Speaker 1: influential film marketing efforts in the history of cinema.
Speaker 2: Huge, huge marketing on this movie marketing, giant this movie.
Speaker 1: Marketing, and I remember they released because they knew, like
Speaker 1: they knew what they had. I think that Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1: I think that Warner Brothers was like, you know, the
Speaker 1: producers were like, all right, let's see the dailies of
Speaker 1: how this is coming in, and then they saw and
Speaker 1: heard Ledger's performance and they were like, holy fucking shit,
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be so I remember this, like
Speaker 1: the studio intentionally leaked only the audio of Heath Ledgers
Speaker 1: the Joker, and I remember fans listening to it were like,
Speaker 1: this is fake. This is not Heath Ledger. This can't
Speaker 1: possibly be Heath Fledger in the movie.
Speaker 2: And what is the genius move they did after.
Speaker 1: The okay they released? Was it the tape in the kitchen?
Speaker 2: No, the first teaser was just the bat symbol on
Speaker 2: the screen.
Speaker 1: Oh part yes, Sorry, I'm interrupting you with those fucking
Speaker 1: brilliant describe describe this in detail.
Speaker 2: So it's just the bat symbol that you see in
Speaker 2: the opening credits of this movie, but it's falling apart
Speaker 2: in a different way, and the music is just blaring
Speaker 2: from Batman begins, and you hear Bruce Wayne saying like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, how do I like it's that
Speaker 2: whole scene that happens later and Alfred. I think the
Speaker 2: line is Alfred is like you hammered them. They went
Speaker 2: to someone they didn't fully understand. And then it's just silence,
Speaker 2: and then you see the Batman simple disintegrating. And then
Speaker 2: all you hear is the Joker saying I'm a man
Speaker 2: of my word, and it's just like that, and you're like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, okay, Like you're like, okay, this should be interesting.
Speaker 2: You saw nothing. That's the trailer. You see nothing. Unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It was so so brilliant, and and people were losing
Speaker 1: their she about this movie coming out. It was the
Speaker 1: most anticipated already at this point, it was the most
Speaker 1: anticipated movie of the decade. And then and I might
Speaker 1: be skipping things, so if you want to backtrack, feel free.
Speaker 1: And then the movie is planning to come out in
Speaker 1: July of two thousand and eight. In January two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, it's already eleven out of ten hyped, and
Speaker 1: everybody is so excited to see Heath Ledger's Joker. In
Speaker 1: January of two thousand and eight, six months before the
Speaker 1: movie comes out, Heathledger unexpectedly dies.
Speaker 2: Can we backtrack for one thing? Yes, so this is
Speaker 2: obviously more important. In November of two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers decides to put the opening scene of this
Speaker 2: movie in Imax in front of I Am Legend, Yes,
Speaker 2: as a preview, and it was the biggest mistake for
Speaker 2: I Am Legend to ever make, but the genius move
Speaker 2: of their part, because that was the first time you
Speaker 2: saw live footage of this happening in action. And we'll
Speaker 2: get to the scene, but it was just fucking electric.
Speaker 2: It was just like people were going to see it.
Speaker 2: And even I think I Am Legends a very good movie.
Speaker 2: Actually I don't want to bash it.
Speaker 1: Terrible, terrible ending ruined the whole movie. The ending was.
Speaker 2: Terrible, exactly agreed, agreed, But this footage was an IMAX
Speaker 2: and people were literally just going to see it to
Speaker 2: set a footage. The footage got pirated. Also, one thing,
Speaker 2: if people are interested at all, this version of the
Speaker 2: trailer is on YouTube. I think it's like a pirated
Speaker 2: version of it or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2: The Imax preview after the footage was just fucking sick.
Speaker 2: It was just like the burning fire truck on the
Speaker 2: side of the road, it was him walking in the
Speaker 2: street during the hit me scene. It was all the
Speaker 2: stuff you were seeing for the first time, and I
Speaker 2: remember just being like, I cannot fucking wait for this
Speaker 2: movie to come out, just if not more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to just to backtrack for one second on
Speaker 1: I Am Legend, because I know people listening are gonna
Speaker 1: be like, what are you talking about? So I Am
Speaker 1: Legend was a great movie with Willsonmith. It's a post
Speaker 1: apocalyptic horror movie about a man and his dog where
Speaker 1: he human beings are essentially have been turned into like
Speaker 1: zombie vampires. But it was at nineteen fifty four book,
Speaker 1: so this outdates, you know, the sixth sense by like
Speaker 1: forty years. It's the ultimate twist ending book where at
Speaker 1: the end of the book, he's this lone guy who
Speaker 1: goes around killing these vampires and then he realizes like,
Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, I'm the villain. Like the world
Speaker 1: is now all zombie vampires and they're all terrified of
Speaker 1: this one dude with his dog who goes around killing people,
Speaker 1: and like that's the end of the book. He realizes
Speaker 1: I am the villain in this. I thought I was
Speaker 1: like the hero trying to survive the apocalypse. So for
Speaker 1: the for the Hollywood movie, they just sort of like,
Speaker 1: let's just make a totally normal, non twist ending because
Speaker 1: I will bum people out. And it was like the
Speaker 1: biggest missed opportunity ever.
Speaker 2: Oh, it would have been amazing because it's also in
Speaker 2: Maybe this is just because it's more of my tone
Speaker 2: of movie. One of the best Wolfsmith performances ever. He's
Speaker 2: so good in that movie.
Speaker 1: He's so good. That's back when he he was batting
Speaker 1: a thousand and hitting like eighty nine home runs a year.
Speaker 1: He was just a sure thing. He was asking the
Speaker 1: seat sure thing. But they actually filmed the original book
Speaker 1: ending and then ended up going with the complete opposite.
Speaker 1: But anyways, Yeah, so Heath Ledger. Heath Ledger dies on
Speaker 1: January twenty second in New York City. He accidentally overdosed
Speaker 1: on a bunch of prescription medications, including sleeping pills, anti
Speaker 1: anxiety pills, and painkillers. It was in his apartment. He
Speaker 1: was with his massage therapists. And I've never really understood this,
Speaker 1: but the massage therapist knew that he was really good
Speaker 1: friends with Mary Kate Olsen or something, and then called
Speaker 1: her to help with the situation, like I need security
Speaker 1: to come right away. I think Heath Ledger is dead.
Speaker 1: I don't know how, Like she was involved in some way.
Speaker 1: Mary Kay Olson, which has always been bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very weird situation, honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then so on obviously is that that's completely
Speaker 1: tragic and horrible. But he dies in January and it
Speaker 1: becomes the biggest news story in the world, and then
Speaker 1: the movie's still about to come out, and all these
Speaker 1: rumors spread, which were later completely disproven that he like
Speaker 1: went crazy, like Jared Letto is so jealous of he'th
Speaker 1: led You're dying because he tried so hard to like
Speaker 1: be this but never is. But he like the rumor
Speaker 1: was he went crazy playing the Joker and that he
Speaker 1: would you know, stay up all night and not sleep
Speaker 1: to try to drive himself insane in order to get
Speaker 1: in the head of the Joker, and he was mentally
Speaker 1: ill because of his preparation for the role and work
Speaker 1: in the movie, and that's why he was like taking
Speaker 1: all these meds and that's what actually killed him. All
Speaker 1: this is completely not true, Like his parents and friends
Speaker 1: and people that worked on The Dark Night all said like, no,
Speaker 1: this is all bullshit, but like it was part of
Speaker 1: the mythos of this movie, this movie, this role killed
Speaker 1: him because it was so crazy, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think also like it was similar I think
Speaker 2: with like the Paul Walker with Furious seven, where like
Speaker 2: people like, well, how are they going to handle this? Now?
Speaker 1: Okay, good, I'm glad you went there, because I was like,
Speaker 1: please explain how he fledgers. The Joker is similar to
Speaker 1: Paul Walker and Furious.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Brian had his moments where he went crazy.
Speaker 2: Let's be real, so they both also loved vehicles. But
Speaker 2: but no, I agree like that. It's interesting now because
Speaker 2: it's been a number of years, obviously since this movie
Speaker 2: came out, how many of the co stars of the
Speaker 2: movies have talked about him and been like that was
Speaker 2: just not even the tone on set. There was no
Speaker 2: like I'm being me fit, I'm always the joker. Michael
Speaker 2: Ji White has an amazing video on YouTube of him
Speaker 2: talking about that scene and how that whole experience was
Speaker 2: and how it was like very fun and loose and
Speaker 2: like he was very much like asking them at the table,
Speaker 2: do you guys think this works? Is just do you
Speaker 2: guys think he would like while he would do this stuff,
Speaker 2: he would be like, do you guys think this is okay?
Speaker 2: He was so nervous about doing it right or doing
Speaker 2: it well, especially because that pressure must be crazy. But
Speaker 2: like all you hear is people just like, you know,
Speaker 2: completely dismissing that rumor entirely. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: Just watching random clips of William Freakin, who's a famous director.
Speaker 1: What has he done? Ryan Like dog Day Afternoon?
Speaker 2: No, not dog Day Exorcist? My god, Why am I
Speaker 2: missing this? French connection?
Speaker 1: Yeah, French connection, French connection. What do you do with Pacino?
Speaker 1: He did something with Pachinah Cruising, cruising, That's what it
Speaker 1: wasn't dog Day was cruising. It was the other movie
Speaker 1: about LGBTQ with the with Patino. But William Freakin is
Speaker 1: a fantastic interview, and he was talking about he just
Speaker 1: doesn't give a ship.
Speaker 2: He doesn't give a fuck, absolutely up.
Speaker 1: And he was talking there talking about like working with
Speaker 1: different actors, and he said, I did a movie with
Speaker 1: Tommi Lle Jones and Benicio del Toro. Tommi Lee Jones
Speaker 1: came in and he had done all this preparation in
Speaker 1: his head and wrote the story of his character's life
Speaker 1: in his head and didn't tell me about it because
Speaker 1: I don't care. And then I was like, okay, Tommy,
Speaker 1: you go over here and you say this, and you
Speaker 1: go over here and you say that, and he goes,
Speaker 1: got it, got it Bill, and we would shoot the
Speaker 1: scene and it was perfect, but he still del Toro
Speaker 1: would be like, what was my character's childhood like? And
Speaker 1: I would say, Benicio, I have no fucking idea, what
Speaker 1: is your character's child I was like, And he also
Speaker 1: Will Will don't freaking hates Paccino. He says, he's like
Speaker 1: not a good actor. He's completely unprepared, he's an asshole.
Speaker 1: Loves Tommy Lee Jones, though we'll talk about how great
Speaker 1: Tommily Jones is at every opportunity. But so, that's very
Speaker 1: interesting that Ledger was open to feedback from like Michael J.
Speaker 1: White during the filming of this movie.
Speaker 2: He's I mean a lot of them said like he
Speaker 2: understandably was super nervous, Like you're doing this is someone
Speaker 2: made this role iconic and it's already an iconic character.
Speaker 2: He was super nervous doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the only time in the history of
Speaker 1: film that Okay, so, like, one of the most iconic
Speaker 1: villains ever is Jack Nicholson's Joker. It was considered one
Speaker 1: of the most iconic film villains ever.
Speaker 2: Very coffee performance, yep.
Speaker 1: Unquestionably, Tommy Lee Jones who sucked and Batman forever like
Speaker 1: tried to copy it basically then so then so somebody's
Speaker 1: trying to live up to that. The hype for the
Speaker 1: movie is eleven out of ten before the hype before
Speaker 1: he Thledger dies, then he dies, So now the hype
Speaker 1: is twenty five out of ten. And you're going in
Speaker 1: and you're like, there is no way it would be impossible,
Speaker 1: impossible for this movie to live up to the hype,
Speaker 1: and it exceeded the hype. It's never happened before.
Speaker 2: It's it's such a rarity where because really and truly
Speaker 2: the smartest thing about the marketing of these movies is
Speaker 2: they sold you on the visuals and the you know,
Speaker 2: the vibes of it, but you never knew the story
Speaker 2: of it. You never knew the plot of it. You
Speaker 2: just knew it was like, Okay, it's Batman and the Joker,
Speaker 2: see you there see and it was just like and
Speaker 2: they just did a great job doing this stuff. Also,
Speaker 2: something else that we can mention too that is a
Speaker 2: very big thing with Batman movie specifically, is that the
Speaker 2: Joker poster of Joker going up to the translucent glass
Speaker 2: writing why so serious in Blood was one of the
Speaker 2: most cut out stolen posters from movie theaters public places ever.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because this happened with the nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: nine Batman where people stole that poster one also hilarious
Speaker 2: one Batman returns that Catwoman poster was stolen a lot.
Speaker 2: I think it's really funny. So different reason, I would say,
Speaker 2: a much different reason. Yeah, actually of the design. But
Speaker 2: it's a very interesting thing that like even the smallest
Speaker 2: marketing stuff had something like they were you can't plan
Speaker 2: for this type of hype. You can't. You just can't.
Speaker 1: No, No, you can't. And uh uh where was I
Speaker 1: going next?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell the story of when I first
Speaker 1: saw it. I was beyond I was so I was
Speaker 1: so nervous. I was like I had butterflies of excitement.
Speaker 1: I was anxious in an excited way. It's like if
Speaker 1: you were honestly, it's like if a beautiful, beautiful woman
Speaker 1: was like, hey, uh meet like wait here twenty minutes
Speaker 1: and I'll be back in twenty minutes. I'll we'll get
Speaker 1: a cocktail and then we can go up to my
Speaker 1: hotel room and have sex. Like that's how excited I was.
Speaker 2: Or you get the school joker poster, joker poster.
Speaker 1: Joker roster. So I remember I made my girlfriend at
Speaker 1: the time go and she wanted to see it, so
Speaker 1: but we got there so early. We got there hours
Speaker 1: early because the way that IMAX was was you just
Speaker 1: line up at the door and then his first come,
Speaker 1: first served for the seats. We were not We're not
Speaker 1: We're not the first. I don't like that. We were
Speaker 1: not the first people there. We were the second. We
Speaker 1: were the third and fourth people there. There was a
Speaker 1: couple before us, and I still remember the guy was
Speaker 1: like my age and he was wearing a green lantern
Speaker 1: T shirt. So I was like, oh okay, like he's
Speaker 1: hardcore too, and I just thought I couldn't I couldn't
Speaker 1: believe this is happening. Then we walked out of the
Speaker 1: theater and my girlfriend said, you were so excited to
Speaker 1: see it, Like what did you think? And I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And then she was like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean And I said, it's there's just a lot
Speaker 1: of emotions. I'm processing a lot. I don't know, like
Speaker 1: I need to I need to wait a day for
Speaker 1: this movie to soak in because I was just so
Speaker 1: it was just like I was in a blur. It
Speaker 1: was like my wedding day, but I was better. I
Speaker 1: do you remember you're experiencing this movie.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we so imax. Like you said, you had
Speaker 2: to wait in line. So the midnight show is usually
Speaker 2: a huge crowd. So we got there at eight o'clock
Speaker 2: and waited four hours and then went in. And I think,
Speaker 2: when we get to the part, I'll talk about it,
Speaker 2: but like, again, we had a great crowd for this movie,
Speaker 2: like people were ready for this and they were excited
Speaker 2: for this. But the same thing with me. When I
Speaker 2: left the theater, I was like, and again, we'll get
Speaker 2: to a part of the movie where I felt this way.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know what to think of
Speaker 2: this because it was totally it's not even so much
Speaker 2: I could have met expectations or like it blew them
Speaker 2: out of the water. It was just like I didn't
Speaker 2: expect this, and this what I got was so goddamn good.
Speaker 2: I almost think like I was just like, you just
Speaker 2: know it's corny as it sounds like you like I
Speaker 2: just saw a classic. It just happened in front of
Speaker 2: my face. But I mean, I didn't think about that
Speaker 2: until I end up seeing this thing like five times
Speaker 2: in theaters because I was just like, is this real?
Speaker 2: I don't know how to describe it. I was like,
Speaker 2: is this really happening? Like it was just like you
Speaker 2: had to keep going. And that's obviously a lame way
Speaker 2: to put it, but like I saw it with so
Speaker 2: many different friends and being like and like you said,
Speaker 2: your girlfriend wanted to see it. Another interesting thing to
Speaker 2: talk about with this movie is how many people who
Speaker 2: do not like this stuff saw and like this movie.
Speaker 2: That's a huge aspect of this And I think, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like that was just what it was. It
Speaker 2: was just such a event.
Speaker 1: This is the most successful marketing campaign ever and Heath
Speaker 1: Ledger died as a part of that. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of not fair, but yeah, and it was. And like
Speaker 1: Black Panther, Black Panther got nominated for Best Picture only
Speaker 1: because people were furious that the Oscars didn't nominate The
Speaker 1: Dark Knight for Best Picture. They like changed the guidelines
Speaker 1: of the Oscars because Dark and it was a nominated
Speaker 1: for Best Picture and people were so mad.
Speaker 2: It's actually a better flex in a weird way. We
Speaker 2: talked about this with the Oscar spot that you did
Speaker 2: not get young the awards, but you had such an
Speaker 2: effect that they had to change the rules because they
Speaker 2: realized how out of touch they were. That's fucking huge. Yeah,
Speaker 2: obviously he won himself, but sadly that's a whole Oscar
Speaker 2: horseshit thing. In terms of that I shouldn't say. We'll
Speaker 2: describe when we probably talk about it later.
Speaker 1: But do you think that he would have won if
Speaker 1: he was alive?
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I think it would have gone like
Speaker 2: everything else in this movie. It would have gone unrecognized
Speaker 2: and it would have been like, how the fuck did
Speaker 2: he not win? How the fuck did he got anca moment?
Speaker 2: This is one of the best performances you've ever seen, Like,
Speaker 2: how the fuck did he not win? And I think again, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I kind of loved the year where not being I
Speaker 1: love Chadwick Boseman, I have nothing against him, but I
Speaker 1: loved the year where Chadwick Boseman died and they were
Speaker 1: everyone was so positive he was gonna win the Oscar
Speaker 1: because he was dead and like, I think his family
Speaker 1: was there and people were so excited that he was
Speaker 1: finally gonna win, and then he lost. Yeah, when they
Speaker 1: read it, I was like, good, I'm glad, Like the
Speaker 1: oscars are not fixed, they're a real thing.
Speaker 2: And also the thing with that too is that like
Speaker 2: they put him in i think in Best Actor where
Speaker 2: his character was a supporting role, and I was like,
Speaker 2: that would have secured the win more. But also like again,
Speaker 2: sometimes not winning is better, right, I mean, unfortunately that
Speaker 2: real situation is awful, but like similar here, Like I
Speaker 2: just think because that it's such a conundrum whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call that thing, the Academy, they did it,
Speaker 2: I think because obviously he was nominated before. He was
Speaker 2: in a tough year that year because phili Seymour Hoffman
Speaker 2: won for Capoti, so like there was no chance of
Speaker 2: getting around that, and his performance even after broke Back
Speaker 2: came out, was like so revered as like wow, he
Speaker 2: did this so well. And I think something to think
Speaker 2: about too is that Nolan and interview has always said
Speaker 2: like his performance or his choices as an actor is
Speaker 2: what got him the role, and he was because he's
Speaker 2: like I think he's a fearless person. Because as we
Speaker 2: talked about with broke Back, so many other bigger actors
Speaker 2: turned that down and it would have been an amazing
Speaker 2: part for them too, but turned it down because of
Speaker 2: what his content was probably but and how they think
Speaker 2: people would view that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, Philip sumer Hoffen
Speaker 1: is a god and he's probably a better actor than
Speaker 1: he's Ledger. Even though we're like splitting hairs here. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about you know, Mickey Mannel and
Speaker 1: Joe DiMaggio. But Capoti is that's such a dumb role
Speaker 1: to win the Oscar because it's just like he's doing
Speaker 1: a biopic, he's doing a voice.
Speaker 2: So it's the perfect role to win an Oscar.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, like everybody knows who it is. But
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Ennis is a much harder role to
Speaker 1: pull off in a much more impress of performance than Caponti.
Speaker 2: Like, I know this is insane, but I think of
Speaker 2: like the happen stance of the world. So that's in
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. The next year, Christoph Waltz wins
Speaker 2: for Inglorious Bastard's Bastards for being another charismatic, incredibly watchable
Speaker 2: steal the show of villain in a movie. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: just think the relay is right there. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: taking anything away. I know he's listening. Sorry, Christoph, I
Speaker 2: don't mean to be that insulting that way, but I
Speaker 2: think truly it lays the groundwork for a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think seeing tarn Killem's portrayal of Christoph Waltz in
Speaker 1: Celebrity Jeopardy on SNL, I was kind of like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of not knocks him down a couple of
Speaker 1: pegs for me.
Speaker 2: He's always like that, just a weird, funky guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also winning twice was interesting too, let's.
Speaker 1: Me deliver the line like this.
Speaker 2: Done? Another thing I think is interesting, especially because diretrospect
Speaker 2: is this is also May of this year, iron Man
Speaker 2: is released, and I talked about it on the last
Speaker 2: episode about how like this is a real kind of
Speaker 2: like shifts passing kind of thing where this is kind
Speaker 2: of how super hero movies were done with like X Men,
Speaker 2: spider Man, Batman. You had a director do them, and
Speaker 2: then they are kind of more movies and comics, and
Speaker 2: then the MCU becomes why don't we do what comics do?
Speaker 2: And I think something to think about. I always kind
Speaker 2: of like marinated on and I wondered if this was
Speaker 2: a thing drummer when they announced that Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 2: Was playing Iron Man because he at the time he
Speaker 2: was not the obvious pick and people.
Speaker 1: Will everybody, well not everybody. That seemed to me like,
Speaker 1: if you know Robert Downey Jr. He's an amazing, amazing
Speaker 1: charismatic actor, who's good looking, who had drug problems, so like,
Speaker 1: if he's sober, then that's a perfect choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was phenomenal casting. But I remember
Speaker 2: the time people being like, not the pick, but good
Speaker 2: pick because at the time of superhero movies, again in
Speaker 2: this it was younger kids or younger people playing the superheroes.
Speaker 2: It wasn't really established middle aged men or they became
Speaker 2: middle aged men as they filmed them, or new people
Speaker 2: like Hugh Jackman was new for X Men something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just very it was very new. So he
Speaker 2: was like, oh, here's this guy who's had a history
Speaker 2: that we're all aware of. That kind of helps this movie.
Speaker 2: And I think, especially with that movie, is dependent on
Speaker 2: his performance being that good, which it is. He's great
Speaker 2: in that movie and that movie comes as massive hit.
Speaker 2: It is interesting how you feel like that is starting
Speaker 2: something new and then like the nol and Batman begins
Speaker 2: as kind of like the quote unquote older way of
Speaker 2: doing it, and then you have this come out which
Speaker 2: just does something completely different. I think it's such an
Speaker 2: interesting way to think about it retrospectively. I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I think it's just yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like with X Men and certain superhero movies,
Speaker 1: especially in the day, it was like the most valuable
Speaker 1: position in sports as a quarterback on a rookie contract,
Speaker 1: because you have the most impactful, best player on the team,
Speaker 1: and if the quarterback is actually really good and you're
Speaker 1: paying them nothing because they're on a rookie contract. So
Speaker 1: it's like building a basketball team where you know you're
Speaker 1: paying Halle Berry. She's a veteran that's coming in and
Speaker 1: is gonna be really solid, but she can't carry the
Speaker 1: whole movie. So then you find and you sign an
Speaker 1: amazing shooting guard rookie that nobody's ever heard of for nothing,
Speaker 1: and it's Hugh Jackman as Wolverine.
Speaker 2: You know, like that's coming in last minute too. As
Speaker 2: another famous story about casting Gray.
Speaker 1: Scott man, I feel bad for that guy every time
Speaker 1: I see him or think of him. Do Gray Scott
Speaker 1: and he blamed Tom Cruise like overtly do. Gray Scott
Speaker 1: was cast as Wolverine, and the shooting on Mission Impossible
Speaker 1: Too went long and Tom tom Cruise said, no, you can't,
Speaker 1: you can't go do X men. You have to finish
Speaker 1: Mission Impossible too, and do Gray Scott lost out on Wolverine.
Speaker 2: That is rough And also like how like I guess
Speaker 2: it was very close to filming too. It's like Hugh
Speaker 2: Jackman was so last minute and it's just like, how.
Speaker 1: I'm not judging because he's in better shape than me,
Speaker 1: but he's not in good shape. And next man one
Speaker 1: like him with no shirt on looks like a really
Speaker 1: in shape dad. That's what he looks like with no
Speaker 1: shirt on in one, and then by the time like
Speaker 1: three rolls around, he looks like a Greek god with
Speaker 1: no shirt on. Because that's when all the actors started
Speaker 1: doing steroids. No, but it's chicken and broccolian rice, that's
Speaker 1: what they all. That's what fucking what's his name, Chris Hemsworth, chicken,
Speaker 1: broccoli rice, he doesn't do he doesn't do TRT or
Speaker 1: steroids or any of that.
Speaker 2: Wow, damn, But I just thought there was something worth
Speaker 2: talking about because I think about that a lot now,
Speaker 2: where like it was two castings where one was met
Speaker 2: on my own accord, like I said earlier, with criticism,
Speaker 2: and the other ones like yeah this is great, and
Speaker 2: both have become like defining performances in two different worlds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, you're You're totally right. I I would
Speaker 1: like to get into the film unless you had more
Speaker 1: build up to talk about.
Speaker 2: I had no other build up here, unless we missed
Speaker 2: anything else. I think, Oh, well, actually we I mean, actually,
Speaker 2: now we'll get to it. I keep saying that phrase. Jesus,
Speaker 2: I gotta stop. But we'll talk about when we get
Speaker 2: to the characters. I think as we go through, we
Speaker 2: we'll bring up stuff that like happened wow, you know.
Speaker 1: Before we get into the movie itself. The movie begins.
Speaker 1: The first thing you hear is my favorite score, my
Speaker 1: personal bias favorite score of all time. By the way,
Speaker 1: did you see, Mike? Can you see my shirt?
Speaker 2: I can see the top of it here.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me is that better?
Speaker 2: Take it off? Okay?
Speaker 1: No, my mind.
Speaker 2: The whole shirt is the Heath Ledger Joker face.
Speaker 1: Yes, my entire t shirt is just Heath Ledger Joker's face.
Speaker 1: I don't wear it because it's a little small. It's
Speaker 1: not terribly small, but it's a little small for me.
Speaker 1: I remember I wore this on Joe's bachelor party and
Speaker 1: there were two people on Joe's bachelor party that I
Speaker 1: would describe as like meatthead bullies, just kind of like
Speaker 1: the worst people ever, and one of them, in particular,
Speaker 1: I hated, and he made fun of me for wearing
Speaker 1: this shirt. And I was like, first of all, we're adults,
Speaker 1: we're not in high school, so like, I don't care
Speaker 1: if you make fun of me, but you're really making
Speaker 1: fun of someone's shirt, and he was like, he genuinely
Speaker 1: asked me. I was like, I just think it's one
Speaker 1: of the best movie roles ever and one of my
Speaker 1: favorite fictional characters ever. And he legitimately like laughed and said, well,
Speaker 1: why do you care about stuff like that? And I
Speaker 1: just thought you are a pathetic loser and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to waste time explaining this to you, but anyway,
Speaker 1: so we'll go ahead.
Speaker 2: Hey, buddy, you ever heard of not one, but two
Speaker 2: disc DVDs? You ever heard of those? You know what
Speaker 2: those are, you know what they're in, you know what
Speaker 2: they have inside them.
Speaker 1: Oh do you know that Ryan has a vinyl score
Speaker 1: of Lord of the Rings but no record player? Did
Speaker 1: you know that? But anyways, Uh, the first moment of
Speaker 1: this movie is my personal biased favorite score of all time,
Speaker 1: which is Hans Zimmer's score for The Joker. That's how
Speaker 1: the movie begins. It's just this long, drawn out violin sound.
Speaker 1: I think I don't even know how to describe it.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: Name. On the many interviews Han Zimmer is done about
Speaker 2: this movie, he was like, how how do I? How
Speaker 2: do I? He's like, because he has to see the
Speaker 2: movie while they're making it and doing whatever, and he's like,
Speaker 2: and he another credit to Heath Ledger. He was like,
Speaker 2: when you watch this stuff without music, you were like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is fucking unbelievable. And he's like, how do I?
Speaker 2: He goes, maybe you shouldn't score this guy? Interesting? Sorry
Speaker 2: about this score too? Is Christopher Nolan said his original
Speaker 2: plan was to not do new music. He was just
Speaker 2: going to use what they did for Batman begins and
Speaker 2: just put it in this movie. And he was just
Speaker 2: going to kind of like reorient it and use stuff
Speaker 2: they didn't use. But he's like, I don't think we
Speaker 2: need a new score. So Hansimers like okay, and he's like,
Speaker 2: let's do it. So then they put it on and
Speaker 2: then Christopher Nolan's like, yeah, this doesn't work. You can't
Speaker 2: do it this way. And he's like, it's a whole
Speaker 2: new vibe, it's a whole new visual. You have to
Speaker 2: do a new sound. I think one of the greatest
Speaker 2: compliments that the Joker theme has ever gotten is Matthew Vaughan,
Speaker 2: who directed kick Ass X Men First Class Starred Us.
Speaker 2: He was talking about how he had five different composers
Speaker 2: do the music for kick Ass and it was like
Speaker 2: getting the right sound, getting the right people, and he
Speaker 2: was trying to find a theme for the villain and
Speaker 2: he was like he said, we're doing it, and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, we need to do this, we need to
Speaker 2: do this, and he was like working with all these
Speaker 2: people trying to figure it out, and he says, you
Speaker 2: know what pisses he says is in this interviews, like
Speaker 2: you know what does piss me off, though, is that
Speaker 2: the Joker theme is one note and it's the most
Speaker 2: famous villain theme of the past like twenty years. It's
Speaker 2: just someone pulling one string for a long period of
Speaker 2: time and he goes and it's huge. It's so successful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you're saying, I.
Speaker 1: Will say that The Suicide Squad is a terrible movie.
Speaker 1: But one of the things they did for like a
Speaker 1: joker theme for that movie is a band called Confidential
Speaker 1: MX and sing The singer is Becky Hanson. So it's
Speaker 1: Confidential MX featuring Becky Hanson. They did a cover of
Speaker 1: the Bej's Beg's song I started a joke, so go
Speaker 1: listen to that song Confidential MS featuring Becky Hanson. I
Speaker 1: started a joke which is a Beach's cover and it
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's a sounds nothing like the original song.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, but anyways, also speaking of great trailers, uh,
Speaker 2: the trailer of that movie is tremendous with that one
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 1: One of the greatest trailers of all time. That I
Speaker 1: used to this, you know, years and years ago, I
Speaker 1: used to argue with Paul about trailers and you because
Speaker 1: you'd be like you and Paul be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: dam did you see the trailer for blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I would say trailers are irrelevant Suicide Squad. Trailers are
Speaker 1: completely relevant. Suicide Squad because Suicide Squad had an A
Speaker 1: plus trailer and was an F minus movie.
Speaker 2: Trailers are the I think there's their total own work
Speaker 2: of art, and it is like I actually like I
Speaker 2: have a playlist on what YouTube of just like trailers
Speaker 2: that I'm like, man, remember I remember just the feels
Speaker 2: this would give you watching this, or like even just
Speaker 2: like this is such a good trailer for this movie.
Speaker 2: They really are their own form. It's interesting, totally, totally,
Speaker 2: just sad. But they just ruined too much.
Speaker 1: It now them CU trailers were awful. It would just
Speaker 1: be like, here's the Spider Man movie in five minutes.
Speaker 1: That's what the trailer would.
Speaker 2: Be, dude, you know, you know, actually I think the
Speaker 2: worst ones is Fast and Furious literally F nine the
Speaker 2: entire movies and the trailers four and a half minutes.
Speaker 2: It's the entire movie.
Speaker 1: But who cares, Like nobody cares about spoilers.
Speaker 2: I care.
Speaker 1: But so the movie starts at the Joker score and also,
Speaker 1: as Ryan mentioned, this was an imax. This opening scene
Speaker 1: one of the great opening scenes of all time. It
Speaker 1: just shows glass shatters out of a window and there
Speaker 1: are five goons in clown masks. Five criminals and clown masks,
Speaker 1: and they're like repelling several stories up between buildings. They're
Speaker 1: clearly performing some sort of bank heist. So I'm already
Speaker 1: starting with Pobody's nerve fit corner. This is the closest
Speaker 1: to perfect as you can get for me this entire movie.
Speaker 1: But I really don't like the voice acting for the
Speaker 1: clown goons. They don't they don't have they don't have
Speaker 1: actors portraying them, like because everybody's wearing a mask, so
Speaker 1: they just dub the voices over the physical people. And
Speaker 1: it's just two video game me like in the in
Speaker 1: the Back in the Batman Arkham Asylum universe video games,
Speaker 1: which are incredible. They're just always like chatter in the
Speaker 1: background where goons are talking to each other, and the
Speaker 1: voice acting is like over the top cartoonish, and they
Speaker 1: just sound like goons in a video game, And I
Speaker 1: just thought, I just want there to be a little
Speaker 1: more nuanced here. So I don't like the voice acting.
Speaker 2: But people, he thinks that you can sit back and
Speaker 2: still take a slice. I know why they call it
Speaker 2: the Joker.
Speaker 1: That's exactly that's exactly right. Ryan.
Speaker 2: Also, these masks are amazing I'm always curious. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you've seen the meme that came out of the footage
Speaker 2: from the nineteen sixty six Batman show of the Joker
Speaker 2: wearing this same clown mask that the Joker wears here,
Speaker 2: have you seen that?
Speaker 1: That's wonder hell.
Speaker 2: That's real. That's that's from the first episode of the
Speaker 2: Batman TV show apparently, And I'm like, always so curious
Speaker 2: how intentional that was. It had to be based on
Speaker 2: the design, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Here's it. And Batman begins too with the piano. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, So there's five goons and they said
Speaker 1: five guys, five shares, and then that somebody chimes in,
Speaker 1: you mean six shares because of the Joker and exactly
Speaker 1: what Ryan said. He thinks he can sit out and
Speaker 1: to still take a slice and know why they call
Speaker 1: him the Joker. And one of the goons says, I
Speaker 1: heard he wears makeup to scare people. If you really like,
Speaker 1: listen to this movie and watch it again. It's a
Speaker 1: great moment. So when a bank has robbed, you press
Speaker 1: the emergency button and the cops come. Like if you're
Speaker 1: a teller, you press the button under the counter. The
Speaker 1: cops come. So one of the clown goons is intercepting
Speaker 1: the call to stop it, and he goes, that's weird.
Speaker 1: They didn't call the cops. They didn't call Nuebune one.
Speaker 1: It went to a private number. And that's the first
Speaker 1: indication that this is not a normal bank. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he and then he so that guy who says, oh,
Speaker 1: that's funny, didn't go to nine one one, All right,
Speaker 1: I'm all at here. What happens When he says I'm
Speaker 1: all set, basically, I've completed my job. What happens?
Speaker 2: He is shot?
Speaker 1: He is shot and killed by another goon. So now
Speaker 1: there's only four clowns left, less shares, and thank god
Speaker 1: we are now shown the Wait he was the Shredder?
Speaker 1: Was he the Shredder in two? No? He wasn't the
Speaker 1: Shredder into Out of the Shadows but William William Fickner, Yes,
Speaker 1: who did he play in Out of the Shadows?
Speaker 2: He is? I think he was going to be Shredder
Speaker 2: and ended up not being. But he was some like
Speaker 2: business guy. But I thought he's in the first one.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's in the first one too. Who gives
Speaker 1: a fuck about those movies? But William Fickner is a
Speaker 1: character actor. You would recognize him one hundred percent if
Speaker 1: you've googled him. He's been in a billion things. He's
Speaker 1: the bank manager.
Speaker 2: Eric Sachs, CEO of Sacks Industry with dark ties to
Speaker 2: the foot clan.
Speaker 1: I'm just legitimately gonna edit that out because no one cares.
Speaker 1: And the one of the goons hold hands of bank
Speaker 1: hostage a grenade and pulls the pin, meaning like if
Speaker 1: you move, if you try to run away, if you
Speaker 1: drop this for everybody does. The bank manager, William Fickner
Speaker 1: pulls out a shotgun shoots one of the clown goons
Speaker 1: in the back. So now there's only three guys left,
Speaker 1: and he says, do you have any idea who you're
Speaker 1: stealing from? You and your friends are dead. It's a
Speaker 1: great line. I love the way he delivers that line.
Speaker 1: And then there's a guy who's trying to get into
Speaker 1: the vault itself and he gets electrocuted, and he says,
Speaker 1: what kind of bank wires the vault to electrocute you?
Speaker 1: And one of the clown goons says a mob bank,
Speaker 1: yep so, and then when he opens the vault, he says,
Speaker 1: where's the alarm guy. Oh, I took him out with
Speaker 1: the boss set it'd be one last year. And then
Speaker 1: one of them says, funny, he told me the same
Speaker 1: thing about you kills him. Now there's only two clowns left,
Speaker 1: so basically, so basically they they how do they subdue
Speaker 1: William Fickner. I'm trying to remember.
Speaker 2: So when he he shoots the gun, he stops shooting.
Speaker 2: Joker clown runs up to like the second or third
Speaker 2: table in the middle of the room. He he's with
Speaker 2: the main clown who we've been following the whole time,
Speaker 2: and he's like he's out right because they think he
Speaker 2: shot all the good bullets out of the gun, and
Speaker 2: he like, I love this delay. I think it's so
Speaker 2: funny where he just like looks and freezes and just
Speaker 2: goes yeah, like nods his head like yeah, he's out.
Speaker 2: So that guy stands up, Thickner shoots him in the arm.
Speaker 2: Then he's actually out of bullets. So then the Joker
Speaker 2: stands up and shoots him and takes him down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you mean the clown goons because the Jokers.
Speaker 2: Spoiler alert everybody for the two thousand and eight movie
Speaker 2: that everyone in America saw yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Also just like out of the rafters, your impressions, your
Speaker 1: random mass impressions that are so good. It's like when
Speaker 1: John Hamm hosted SNL and he said, they were like,
Speaker 1: what impression can you do that's really good? And he said, oh,
Speaker 1: I can do and then he named like some nineteen
Speaker 1: thirties actor. Do you remember what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: I do. I figure what the persson was though.
Speaker 1: Yet who what his name was? And then they were
Speaker 1: like okay, done, and Bill Hayter said it was like
Speaker 1: one of his favorite things that John Hamm has ever done.
Speaker 1: But your impression of the clown goon that I think
Speaker 1: is a bad voice actor is literally like perfect. Sounds
Speaker 1: exactly like that.
Speaker 2: This is. I know, I'm very bad with memory on
Speaker 2: this podcast with like remembering things. I have watched this
Speaker 2: scene so many times on YouTube on video. I think
Speaker 2: this is like the best opening to a movie ever made.
Speaker 2: I've watched it a thousand times. I love that. I
Speaker 2: love this movie. And it's always the stupid lines that
Speaker 2: I stuck in my head. It's never the good ones,
Speaker 2: like I said, with like Gordon and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: It's always the dumb shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's there's two clown goons left, and one
Speaker 1: clown goon points a gun at the other and says,
Speaker 1: I bet the Joker told you to kill me when
Speaker 1: I loaded the cash, and the other clown goon who
Speaker 1: has the gunpoint on Adam, says, no, no, I kill
Speaker 1: the bus driver. And then the guy's like, wait what
Speaker 1: bus driver? And uh a school bus reverses into the
Speaker 1: bank and kills the remaining goon. So now there's one
Speaker 1: goon left. But a new goon comes out of the
Speaker 1: bus and it's like, all right, let's load, let's load
Speaker 1: the cash.
Speaker 2: So explain this his line, he's not getting up. Unreal, unreal.
Speaker 2: So he comes out and they're throwing the bags on
Speaker 2: the bus and he's like, he says, what does he say?
Speaker 2: What happened to the whatever guy? Right? What happened?
Speaker 1: What happened to the other guys?
Speaker 2: The other guys? And then other clown goon coldly just
Speaker 2: like slightly looks back and just shoots him and kills him.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that moment I wrote down. He he
Speaker 1: doesn't even look at him. He has no value in
Speaker 1: human life. The Joker, because spoiler Ryan ruined it for everyone.
Speaker 1: It is the Joker, and he even his own and
Speaker 1: this movie he has no regard for any human life,
Speaker 1: including his own, which is the polar opposite of Batman.
Speaker 1: The Joker is the Batman is about order. The Joker
Speaker 1: is about chaos. Batman is muscular, the Joker is not.
Speaker 1: Batman is about hand in hand combat. The Joker is
Speaker 1: about guns and knives, you know. Batman is about protecting
Speaker 1: human life. The Joker sees no value in human life.
Speaker 1: It's it's just it's it's wonderful. So the bank manager,
Speaker 1: William Fickner said, criminals in this town used to believe
Speaker 1: in something, honor, respect, What do you believe in? And
Speaker 1: then Ryan, do you want to say it or do
Speaker 1: you want me to say it?
Speaker 2: You could say, go for it.
Speaker 1: I believe, And he's still wearing a mask. I believe
Speaker 1: whatever doesn't kill you. And he takes off his mask
Speaker 1: and you can see it's the Joker, and he looks horrifying,
Speaker 1: simply makes you stranger. And it's it's so different than
Speaker 1: the comics because I love like this version of the Joker.
Speaker 1: He because he would now have no regard for his
Speaker 1: appearance or his hygiene. He looks dirty, his teeth are gross.
Speaker 1: His hair is greasy, the makeup's not even put on well,
Speaker 1: it's all like smeared and smudge. He looks fucking terrifying.
Speaker 2: And from my understanding, has massively influenced the design of
Speaker 2: the character and the comics from that point forward.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And the the Joker puts a grenade in
Speaker 1: William Fickner's mouth and the grenade is tied to his belt,
Speaker 1: his own, So not only is that great, So he
Speaker 1: gets on the bus and drives away, which pulls the
Speaker 1: pin on the grenade. That's hilarious. But then also it's
Speaker 1: just so amazing that they just nailed this character like
Speaker 1: they did. I don't think they completely nailed Batman in
Speaker 1: this franchise, but they completely nailed the Joker. It's a
Speaker 1: gag grenade. It's not even a real grenade.
Speaker 2: That hit when he exhales William Fickner when he's like,
Speaker 2: my head was about to blow up, and it doesn't,
Speaker 2: and it's just like it's perfect.
Speaker 1: And the Joker, the Joker is now on the school bus.
Speaker 1: The school bus is exiting the bank at the exact
Speaker 1: moment of school drop off in Gotham City, so there's
Speaker 1: a line of like one hundred school buses and the
Speaker 1: bank school bus just gets in the line and he's
Speaker 1: just able to inconspicuously just disappear.
Speaker 2: Which yall bus was it? It's the one with all
Speaker 2: the debris on it. I think.
Speaker 1: Also, not again, Pobody's nervefect. I don't want to nitpick
Speaker 1: this movie. Reversing through the front doors of a bank
Speaker 1: didn't do damage to the back of the school bus
Speaker 1: in any way. There's not a scratch on the school bus.
Speaker 2: Love it. I also it's so funny now to see it,
Speaker 2: because like I always forget about the school buses lined
Speaker 2: up at the end of it, so I always I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right. Hello, this whole thing is about timing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that my friends, I think, honestly, we should
Speaker 1: go to a part two. Sure, just what a fantastic
Speaker 1: opening episode, just the build up, this opening scene, which
Speaker 1: is incredible, and now we're going to a part two
Speaker 1: where we're really going to start the movie and we'll
Speaker 1: see how many So we have I have thirteen pages
Speaker 1: of notes, but the notes are only on the movie itself.
Speaker 1: We are on page basically. We just finished page one
Speaker 1: and this movie. It took me four hours to watch
Speaker 1: this movie. The movie's like two and a half hours
Speaker 1: took me forward to watch it. I did it over
Speaker 1: four days. I did an hour a day because I
Speaker 1: kept having a deposit and rewind and I wrote down
Speaker 1: dialogue and I took poke, copious notes. So this is,
Speaker 1: you know, like the I don't get paid to do this, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: so I don't really give it my whole ass. When
Speaker 1: I like watch a movie and take notes, and this
Speaker 1: this movie more than any movie. I was like, I
Speaker 1: have to give this my whole.
Speaker 2: Ass, but it's yeah, you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So all right, well we will see you next time,
Speaker 1: and I want to. I think four parts is good,
Speaker 1: so this can be as long as the hook pod.
Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see. That's why we started early. So
Speaker 1: thank you for listening.
Speaker 2: Thank you