Speaker 1: It's just been a lot, you know. They they they
Speaker 1: elected the dang new pope after we recorded last week.
Speaker 1: They couldn't have done it beforehand.
Speaker 2: No, no, you know, and it's like, so now we've
Speaker 2: lost all this possibility of making all the excellent Chicago
Speaker 2: style jokes I would have. It's like a temporary Chicago
Speaker 2: and you know, a Chicago style pope running through the garden,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Something about Malort. I could definitely do a
Speaker 2: good line.
Speaker 3: In an American pope.
Speaker 2: I don't like.
Speaker 1: I really never thought, oh, this is fucking amazing that
Speaker 1: like I am, I implore everyone to to look at
Speaker 1: the Pope the way I am looking at the Pope
Speaker 1: right now, which is as an atheist who is never
Speaker 1: Catholic in the first place, but who nevertheless finds Catholicism
Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church incredible interesting, which is to say
Speaker 1: that this is so fucking funny.
Speaker 3: I don't like.
Speaker 1: To me, this is to me, this is the funniest
Speaker 1: outcome bye, by far, the funniest outcome, Because Okay, you
Speaker 1: get a guy who, uh like, the conservative Catholics are
Speaker 1: gonna call woke, They're gonna say he's all bad, and
Speaker 1: I mean like he you know, he he he. He's
Speaker 1: progressive on certain things, which is cool, but you know,
Speaker 1: he still doesn't want to get rid of paper, celibacy,
Speaker 1: let let women be priests, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Et cetera.
Speaker 1: And uh so you get that, and you get that
Speaker 1: he's an American, but he's not like, oh, American Catholics.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's an American who is Catholic. And like,
Speaker 1: so now you have this thing where like you can't
Speaker 1: just you can like you can no longer be like, oh, this.
Speaker 3: Is just American Catholics. Like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1: The woke Pope is an American Catholic. How dare you
Speaker 1: say that about about our beloved woke Pope. He's, uh,
Speaker 1: you can't, you can't say that, you know. It's it's like,
Speaker 1: this is honestly the funniest thing. It's also like America's
Speaker 1: falling apart. Uh, the empire is crumbling in on itself.
Speaker 1: And even so we still get total cultural victory. We
Speaker 1: get total cultural victory because I think the last things
Speaker 1: that we could that Americans could have achieved were being
Speaker 1: a regnal monarch and uh, being the leader of an
Speaker 1: old world religion.
Speaker 3: And we did it. That's it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But so my argument is though, that we're having an
Speaker 2: American pope now because America's done oh yeah. It's like
Speaker 2: where they're like, Okay, yeah, you can have an American
Speaker 2: pope because America is no longer like the the global
Speaker 2: Hedgemen essentially, and it's like, well, you can do this.
Speaker 2: It's not going to be too much of an issue
Speaker 2: that they're you know, the American president exists and also
Speaker 2: an American pope exists, and so I think it's actually
Speaker 2: quite damning in terms of what it says about America.
Speaker 2: But I mean, we knew that we've done, but.
Speaker 1: Knowing that that's not like yeah, to me, that doesn't
Speaker 1: even occur in the calculus because like, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we've been doing the show for over four years and
Speaker 1: have been saying it the whole time like that, Like
Speaker 1: we've been saying it the whole time. America is donezo.
Speaker 1: It is h the empire is falling apart. We don't
Speaker 1: know how long it'll be, it'll how long this goes.
Speaker 1: Could be a week, could be five years, could be
Speaker 1: eighty you know, I definitely don't think it's going to
Speaker 1: be eighty now.
Speaker 3: But that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like to me, it's just like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: he's the I think he's the best one. If you're
Speaker 1: someone who wants to see the Catholic Church like legitimately
Speaker 1: be better and you care about like it as an
Speaker 1: institution to some degree, I think this is probably the
Speaker 1: best you could possibly hope for because they're not going
Speaker 1: to they're not going to a point like a like
Speaker 1: a openly gay pope who uh wants to have women
Speaker 1: become priests tomorrow and is pro abortion, Like that's not
Speaker 1: that's not a thing that's going to get elected there.
Speaker 2: Well, like you know, fundamentally, I'm glad he's not one
Speaker 2: of those those opus day perverts.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also I'm hugely here for Beef Pope, the pope
Speaker 2: who was elected because nobody likes JD. Vans Like right,
Speaker 2: like it's very's like to be it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't even Yeah, they don't even seem to
Speaker 1: like him over Like even the conservative guys over in
Speaker 1: Europe are like, god.
Speaker 2: You suck because he's fake with it, like it just
Speaker 2: it's just sweaty, like I mean, and granted, this is
Speaker 2: kind of like a you know, someone who is like
Speaker 2: culturally Catholic or whatever, right, Like it's It's like one
Speaker 2: of my like knee jerk reactions to this is that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, all of my intensely Catholic family all live
Speaker 2: in Chicago, and I'm like, don't love it. I'm like, shit,
Speaker 2: they were vindicated, Like fuck, but I mean, shout out
Speaker 2: to my family. I do love you, But like, I
Speaker 2: think it is just true that he's so fucking weird
Speaker 2: with it, Like regular ass when you're born Catholic Catholics,
Speaker 2: we are just not like weird perves about it. You know,
Speaker 2: We're not We're not like, you know, trying to fucking
Speaker 2: We're not trying to beef with the extant Pope being
Speaker 2: like no, I think he'll find that according to the
Speaker 2: Council of Trent and just shut the fuck up, you loser.
Speaker 2: And also I know your Latin's not good, so like,
Speaker 2: don't don't come out.
Speaker 1: I would say, maybe you're not beefing with the Pope
Speaker 1: about the same things, but I think there's a pretty
Speaker 1: rich history of well if Catholics beefing with the Pope
Speaker 1: about everything under the sun.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not even a Catholic, but you know,
Speaker 2: I got pope beef. I've got really intense pope beef, obviously.
Speaker 2: I mean mostly it's the it's the kiddy feeling.
Speaker 3: I don't like, Oh, what do you know?
Speaker 1: This guy's this guy's implicated in it too, because in
Speaker 1: order to be in order to be a cardinal, to
Speaker 1: get into the College of Cardinals, you either have to
Speaker 1: have known about it or been personally involved in it.
Speaker 1: There is no way right now, maybe in thirty years,
Speaker 1: maybe probably going to take longer than that, but whatever,
Speaker 1: it's still like it's the same.
Speaker 2: You were covering it up. You were covering it up.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just what it is. And so I
Speaker 2: don't like that. You know, two things can be true.
Speaker 2: I could like going into a cathedral, which I very
Speaker 2: much do, and all so I can dislike the governing
Speaker 2: structure that makes those cathedrals possible because I'm a multitude
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm capable of holding more than one
Speaker 2: opinion at once, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, like the Pope, like, you know,
Speaker 1: at one point the Pope is uh, you know, like
Speaker 1: all of this is funny. I mean it is like
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know another way to describe it
Speaker 1: other than it's just really fucking funny that like that
Speaker 1: that you know that that they elected like an American
Speaker 1: as America is falling, but an American who is actively
Speaker 1: at odds with the current American administration, and like it,
Speaker 1: that's just really funny. Now, at the same time, these
Speaker 1: people contain multitudes of horror, and they do some good
Speaker 1: things and they oversee a lot of awful but like,
Speaker 1: it's fucking funny. Like I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what to tell.
Speaker 2: You, I don't know what else to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like they came that this guy was
Speaker 1: like they they had lunch. I thought this was gonna
Speaker 1: be a long drawn out thing. And then they did
Speaker 1: the classic like American jury thing where they were like,
Speaker 1: all right, it is eleven o'clock. If we deliberate quote
Speaker 1: unquote for thirty minutes, we can get the free lunch
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. And so they were like, cool,
Speaker 1: let's get the catered lunch. Okay, let's hear a homily
Speaker 1: and a song. Okay, that's great, Okay, Oh no, the
Speaker 1: first four candidates didn't work out, and then bam, this
Speaker 1: guy comes in on the fifth and they were like, yep, totally, like.
Speaker 2: Very funny, very funny to make it seems.
Speaker 1: Like they had this one in the bag, especially since
Speaker 1: he was the guy who appointed all the cardinals, which
Speaker 1: I guess kind of makes him the dict.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not in not in the not in the genocide
Speaker 1: way that we know of, but uh but but you
Speaker 1: know in the uh well, of course I'm going to
Speaker 1: be vice president. I got you your job, didn't I.
Speaker 1: I all right, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's fun, but I mean I know you have.
Speaker 1: A lot more complicated feelings about it.
Speaker 2: Uh well, you know, primarily my my thoughts about it
Speaker 2: currently at the moment. Are you know, did you see
Speaker 2: the sweet You know, Laura Lumer did the woke Marxist
Speaker 2: Pope tweet and this is always liked to the tune
Speaker 2: of Pink Pony clubs. So anytime anyone talks about it,
Speaker 2: I'm just going woke Marxist Pope. I'm gonna keep bond
Speaker 2: dancing like repeatedly, like over and over again. And that's
Speaker 2: good enough for me. That's good enough for me, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: It's very funny. He's a he's a white Sox fan,
Speaker 1: just an abysmal.
Speaker 2: I love I love that. Yeah, anti Cubs action, so
Speaker 2: I fucking love that ship. I love that SOX.
Speaker 1: Like they go in like they're like, we found the
Speaker 1: pope's brother. He lives in Florida, And you're like, wait, what,
Speaker 1: like he just like he the Pope's brother is hey,
Speaker 1: like everybody knows like all these stories about people like
Speaker 1: knowing the pope's mom, and it's like, you can't know
Speaker 1: a pope's mom.
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out.
Speaker 1: He I don't want to, you know. And it's like
Speaker 1: it's just so funny. And they like went down to
Speaker 1: his brother and his mother was like he would never
Speaker 1: be a Cubs fan. Cubs fucking suck ghosts. It's so funny.
Speaker 1: It's just so fucking funny.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for good for them. Um yeah, I don't know. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's fun. I'm glad we get the Uh. I'm glad
Speaker 1: we get to have a laugh about it. And I'm
Speaker 1: glad that we got an America pope who is.
Speaker 3: Just at odds with the.
Speaker 1: American administration and most of America's politicians because of the Democrats.
Speaker 1: But you know whatever, that's funny, funny, we got an
Speaker 1: America pope before an English win.
Speaker 3: Get fucked.
Speaker 2: Adrian surely.
Speaker 3: Elected.
Speaker 2: I mean, who's counting?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah he did.
Speaker 1: I was thinking to the other one who almost got
Speaker 1: to like to he was the one who didn't take
Speaker 1: a new name, right, he.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, he's the he's the only one he's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it kind of doesn't count.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I was like, uh, that's what I would do.
Speaker 1: I would just become the first pope Luke. Like, what
Speaker 1: do you change your name to?
Speaker 3: Luke?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: See, I would be. I would be I would go
Speaker 2: urban because I'm a lot of the urban.
Speaker 1: It would either be Luke or Sixtus the sixth. I
Speaker 1: would that the last one, six is the fifth. And
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, this is this joke's too good.
Speaker 3: We can't let him have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, I don't know what he needed a six
Speaker 1: This is did off the top of my head.
Speaker 3: So if they were all.
Speaker 2: Evil, just Sylvester, what about being a Sylvester.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good pope?
Speaker 1: Lando the second uh from you know they had one
Speaker 1: back in the tenth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd because yeah, like I would like that would
Speaker 2: be good. Get like a throwback name that's only been
Speaker 2: used once or twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh oh the other thing uh in medieval news, I
Speaker 1: guess before before we start, uh you know, total postmodern
Speaker 1: victory over the Middle Ages, as if we hadn't already
Speaker 1: done it, folks. Yesterday it was reported by CERN that
Speaker 1: the Large Hadron Collider had successfully transmuted lead into gold.
Speaker 1: Now this deserves a big asterisk because you can only
Speaker 1: do this at the like relativistic physics speeds that happened
Speaker 1: in a large Hadron collider. But you know what, they
Speaker 1: still did it suck at alchemy or if you rather acheydicated,
Speaker 1: thanks for the help, but you know, Isaac Newton completely vindicated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you could do it, dude. It's just you know,
Speaker 2: you need a collider, that's all.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, but like we like again just going in
Speaker 1: there and get it.
Speaker 2: There is magic.
Speaker 1: My science is magic thing. It's fucking magic. It is
Speaker 1: until like until now that that ship happened in stars.
Speaker 1: That's how gold got created, was like like uh, supernova
Speaker 1: explosions and it's like no, here you go. Uh we
Speaker 1: did it in like a circular tube under Switzerland.
Speaker 2: Well, I would say that it's also got kind of
Speaker 2: like a suitably magical kind of like curse on it too,
Speaker 2: because you can only do it for a couple of
Speaker 2: seconds and only in there, so it's sort of like, well,
Speaker 2: we've done it, go in there and get it. No,
Speaker 2: you can get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, go in there and get it. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: I got to go through six clean rooms and this
Speaker 1: stuff has to like extaminated, but yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'll be torn to bits, and you know, we
Speaker 2: can only do it for a couple of seconds. So
Speaker 2: I think it's like it's suitably it's suitably magical, and
Speaker 2: I like that about it.
Speaker 1: You know. It is like, yeah, that's that's just very cursive,
Speaker 1: very cursive.
Speaker 3: Very Uh. I'm glad it was.
Speaker 1: I'm glad it was that, you know, because I think
Speaker 1: we have to stand against the woo woo bullshit nowadays
Speaker 1: people taking it too far. But since nobody really actually
Speaker 1: does alchemy anymore.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: Like nobody's like, oh, I'm gonna boil my piss into
Speaker 1: whatever and find the reboot.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't know, man, some of some
Speaker 2: of these hippies I see on Instagram do it anyway.
Speaker 2: It's a you know, friend of the show, doctor Sara
Speaker 2: Olberg Stradle she loves to follow like the worst fucking
Speaker 2: people on Instagram, like her algorithm is truly cursed. And
Speaker 2: she's constantly sending me videos of like hippies who are
Speaker 2: like I put a lime under my bed and it
Speaker 2: cures ghosts and like shit like that, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: why are you doing this? Don't make me.
Speaker 4: I don't want to see this, Like, oh man, it's
Speaker 4: so great if you go out and sun your gooch
Speaker 4: for three hours a day and it's like.
Speaker 2: It get your goots right out. But no, I'm not
Speaker 2: even joking about the lime solves ghost thing, like it's
Speaker 2: it's so real. I that's really real, Like.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Uh, total Isaac Newton victory, his theories on the
Speaker 1: universal universal gravitation and uh, and his theories on a
Speaker 1: boiling piss to make Fosterphorus uh fully vindicated uh in
Speaker 1: due time. Also, we wouldn't have the large Hadron Collider
Speaker 1: if he hadn't figured out gravity, or we wouldn't you know,
Speaker 1: shut out anyone he yeah, he and yeah everyone who
Speaker 1: who helped along with that. But yeah, man, I think
Speaker 1: that's it. That's a pretty long fucking intro.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go in, I got I got the Dark Ages,
Speaker 1: so I'll be sometimes soon I'll be able to give
Speaker 1: a full report on how historically accurate doom the Dark
Speaker 1: Ages is, what with its metal, uh magnetic shield that
Speaker 1: spins around and you know, look, we.
Speaker 2: So rarely have actual like medieval news that we take
Speaker 2: it when we can go, right, we do we do.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, here we go, hello and welcome back to
Speaker 1: We're Not So Different, a podcast about how sometimes we
Speaker 1: just you know, sometimes just get into a groove. And
Speaker 1: you got to do a really long intro about how
Speaker 1: the new pope's kind of funny with it. He looked,
Speaker 1: he there's that one picture of him that looks exactly
Speaker 1: like a picture of Emperor Palpatine, Like I know, it's
Speaker 1: so weird. Like at like, I was like, there's no
Speaker 1: way this is real. And then I have reversed image
Speaker 1: search and I was like, oh my god, that is
Speaker 1: a real picture of and that's that's awful for him,
Speaker 1: that's great, yeah.
Speaker 2: But great for us And that's what Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: That isn't that is important? I mean, what am I
Speaker 3: going to do?
Speaker 1: Like I'm not Catholic, I don't have any steak in it.
Speaker 1: Might as well laugh anyway, Yeah, folks, we're here today
Speaker 1: to talk about a little place known as al Andolous.
Speaker 1: And we would do questions, but you know, frankly, the
Speaker 1: twenty minute divergence there at the beginning. We'll get the
Speaker 1: next time, we promise. So yeah, no, you know, once
Speaker 1: again getting behind on questions. But sometimes I got to
Speaker 1: talk about the Pope and and alchemy vindicated.
Speaker 2: Chicago Hot Dog's best Style, Chicago White Sox, best baseball
Speaker 2: team in Chicago, in Chicago Pope.
Speaker 1: You know, Chicago Deep just pizza good despite what people say,
Speaker 1: not so good. So especially when it's done right. Oh
Speaker 1: I gotta I got a frozen when it wasn't great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, ship it wasn't great. Got to specializes in it.
Speaker 6: There are places outside of Chicago that do. There's a
Speaker 6: place in Atlanta. I wonder if it's still open. It
Speaker 6: was called Nancy's. They had incredible deep dish. Anyway, I've
Speaker 6: talked about pizza before.
Speaker 3: You put cheese.
Speaker 1: And sauce and toppings on bread and cook it. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not gonna be bad, except for the cracker
Speaker 1: bullshit that they do in Saint Louis.
Speaker 3: Fuck that.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I'm not familiar with this one.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a thin cracker thing. It's just
Speaker 1: it's it's like eating like uh, you know, the Nacho's
Speaker 1: Flanders style where it's like uh cream cheese and uh
Speaker 1: and and wheat thins or whatever the it was. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Oh man, all right, it just can't stop with the digressions.
Speaker 1: All right, here we go, let's talk about Iberia. Sort
Speaker 1: of shed go without saying, but around five point three
Speaker 1: million years ago, the Mediterranean basin was a vastly different
Speaker 1: place than it is today. Okay, the entire earth was
Speaker 1: vastly different at the time, but we're just going to
Speaker 1: stay focused on the Mediterranean. Back then, the calm, shallow
Speaker 1: sea we all know and love and want to vacation
Speaker 1: upon was a hellish wasteland of shallow pools of heavily
Speaker 1: salinated water and salt flats, and a deep, mostly dry basin.
Speaker 1: This was because the Strait of Gibraltar, the narrow only
Speaker 1: fourteen kilometers or nine mile wide gap between northwestern Africa
Speaker 1: and southeastern Europe that today allows access to the Mediterranean,
Speaker 1: had been pushed up higher by the unstable plate technonics
Speaker 1: of the region, forming a land bridge higher than the
Speaker 1: water level and severing the connection to the rest of
Speaker 1: the Atlantic. Over the next couple of one hundred thousand years,
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean mostly dried out levy, leading to a salinity
Speaker 1: crisis as the evaporating seawater left behind massive salt deposits
Speaker 1: on the former seafloor and eroded the continent walls. At
Speaker 1: its most arid, the Mediterranean was a massive dry basin
Speaker 1: with only occasional shallow pools that sat some three to
Speaker 1: five kilometers or between two to three miles below Atlantic
Speaker 1: sea level, with only the most hyper saline areas like
Speaker 1: the modern day Dead Sea, retaining much standing water. But
Speaker 1: this status quo was short lived geologically speaking, as the
Speaker 1: new Gibraltar land Bridge was exceedingly narrow and sea level
Speaker 1: rise and the steady lap of waves eroded it. So
Speaker 1: it was about five point three million years ago the
Speaker 1: Strait of Gibraltar. The Strait of Gibraltar formed and the
Speaker 1: floodgates opened to one of the greatest spectacles ever to
Speaker 1: occur on the planet, the Zanclean Flood. Suddenly, the weight
Speaker 1: of an ocean's worth of water punched through the sea wall,
Speaker 1: and torrents of water began flowing into the basin. Now,
Speaker 1: you might imagine that this came in like a waterfall,
Speaker 1: but that's incorrect, so that it flowed down gradually declining
Speaker 1: a gradually declining ramp until it reached the basin floor.
Speaker 1: This may seem disappointing, it's you know, the waterfall would
Speaker 1: be much better spectacle until I add one final detail.
Speaker 1: Once the straight fully was fully opened by erosion, more
Speaker 1: than one hundred million cubic meters of water flowed in
Speaker 1: per second, traveling forty meters per second and displacing two
Speaker 1: hundred and forty cubic miles of rock as it moves.
Speaker 1: The most conservative models show that the flood were unleashed
Speaker 1: roughly ten severe drops of water into the basin per second.
Speaker 1: For reference, a sphere drop is equal to one million
Speaker 1: cubic meters of water per second, and the outflow of
Speaker 1: all rivers on Earth combined at any given second is
Speaker 1: one point two severe drops. Thus that its zenith for
Speaker 1: every second that passed, the Mediterranean Basin is being flooded
Speaker 1: by at least ten times more water than the combined
Speaker 1: outflow of every present day river on Earth. And remember
Speaker 1: that's just a conservative estimate. Other models show it could
Speaker 1: have been an undated with as much as one hundred
Speaker 1: sphere drops of water during the worst of it. Regardless,
Speaker 1: for a time, the Zenclean Flood created the longest, most
Speaker 1: catastrophic whitewater rafting channel in history, refilling the entire basin
Speaker 1: in as little as a single year, though the length.
Speaker 3: Of the flood is still hotly debated. Even today, there.
Speaker 1: As still remnants of the Zenclean Flood around, as the
Speaker 1: Mediterranean is much salter saltier than other Atlantic waters, and
Speaker 1: it permanently cut the islands off from one another and
Speaker 1: the mainland, leading to the various speciations we see of
Speaker 1: animals and plants on the islands. What does any of
Speaker 1: this have to do with the Muslim takeover of the
Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula beginning in a seven to eleven CE. Well,
Speaker 1: it does explain the opening of the Strate of Gibraltar,
Speaker 1: which was the initial crossing point for most of the
Speaker 1: Muslim invasion. But outside of that, nothing, Just.
Speaker 3: A really cool story that I like.
Speaker 1: Since I write the intros, I get to do this sometimes.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: Anyway, enough of that nonsense. We're here to continue our
Speaker 1: ongoing series visiting various parts of the Medieval World with
Speaker 1: a short bunch of episodes on All Andoluce. You recall
Speaker 1: that we started the year with the series in the
Speaker 1: same vein on Constantinople. That mean got distracted because there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world. Oh god, it's
Speaker 1: just something we actually have to cover. You know, you
Speaker 1: guys know the deal. You've been listening. Why are we
Speaker 1: doing al Andaluce when we normally focus on Europe and
Speaker 1: you've talked a lot about Spain over the course of
Speaker 1: the show. Well, mostly because we've never done anything centering
Speaker 1: on it. It is incredibly important to the formation of
Speaker 1: the modern world, and most importantly, Spain and All Andduluce
Speaker 1: are two very different things.
Speaker 3: Oh and even.
Speaker 1: More importantly, to spread the message far and wide. This
Speaker 1: isn't an occupation. Don't call it a fucking occupation. After
Speaker 1: seven hundred years, it stops being an occupation. It's just
Speaker 1: Iberia at that point. Today we will talk about the background,
Speaker 1: who who the Umiads were, why the invasion occurred, and
Speaker 1: what were the early years of the invasion like and
Speaker 1: what was life like after it was conquered. And hey,
Speaker 1: if you're looking for Charles Martel and tours and Charlemagne
Speaker 1: and all that shit. Well, listen to this and then
Speaker 1: come back next time, because that's when we'll get to it.
Speaker 3: Eleanor uh.
Speaker 1: Spain and the Iberian Peninsula were famously part of the
Speaker 1: Roman Empire for a while. What was the status of
Speaker 1: Iberia after the fall of Western Rome in for seventy six?
Speaker 1: Who ruled it and what kind of peoples were being
Speaker 1: ruled there?
Speaker 2: The Visigoths ruled it. Yay, yays time woo.
Speaker 1: I had finally made it all the way from the
Speaker 1: fucking step to uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like for them this is kind of like
Speaker 2: the apogee of what they managed to do and controlling
Speaker 2: the Iberia Peninsula. But they're also controlling initially all the
Speaker 2: way up to like tour and things like that in France,
Speaker 2: so you know they've got they've got like a bunch
Speaker 2: of to loose as well. And the physical kind of
Speaker 2: come by this because they were Feo Derati of Rome,
Speaker 2: so those are kind of like the Romanized barbarians, right.
Speaker 2: They had been Central Europeans, shout out to my people,
Speaker 2: that's what's up, that's what's sucking up now. And basically
Speaker 2: the Iberian Peninsula had been experiencing a lot of issues
Speaker 2: even before the quote unquote fall of Western Rome, and
Speaker 2: it's mainly it was dealing with invasions from your year
Speaker 2: ordinarily types of the Allens, the Vandals, the Swabi people.
Speaker 2: I just love to talk about the Allens. It's very funny.
Speaker 2: It's like all the Allans got together and so basically
Speaker 2: they justify taking over the peninsula as what are some
Speaker 2: essentially kind of client states of Western Rome by saying, well,
Speaker 2: this is what you have us for. This is like
Speaker 2: what you invented us for. So of course we're just
Speaker 2: doing it. And Rome is like, no, not like that. Hey,
Speaker 2: that's my taxation base. And they're like, yeah, we'll come
Speaker 2: over here and get it right, and and they're basically like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't really have a lot of ability to do that.
Speaker 2: So i'dan like there were points in time, right like
Speaker 2: especially early on in the Formation, when the physicals are
Speaker 2: fighting Western Rome, like the Emperor Anthemius sends troops over
Speaker 2: to be like knock it off over there, and they
Speaker 2: absolutely get stopped the fucking ground at the Battle of Arl,
Speaker 2: which is very funny. And so like this begins they
Speaker 2: the deal in Spain. So you have these Physigothic people,
Speaker 2: but for the most part we're talking about the Hispanic
Speaker 2: Romans that are living there, and they are Romans. This
Speaker 2: is one of like the big taxation centers for Rome.
Speaker 2: They famously have kind of a funny accent. But you know,
Speaker 2: we draw from the Spanish Romans all the time. So
Speaker 2: for example, Hadrian was a Spanish Roman, right, So the
Speaker 2: population is still largely just like the Hispanic Roman people
Speaker 2: who are there, but the Visigoths are kind of ruling
Speaker 2: very particularly over them, and they do it for a
Speaker 2: long fucking time. That's the thing that they're in there
Speaker 2: before the Fall of Rome. Like they're in there, I
Speaker 2: mean fucking hell, like the you have like the Battle
Speaker 2: of Arl and everything in four sixty nine. Nice, nice, nice,
Speaker 2: that's the reason I can remember that date so like,
Speaker 2: and then basically they are going to stick around for
Speaker 2: quite some time. This isn't to say that it was
Speaker 2: all smooth sailings. So for example, like they get into
Speaker 2: fights with Byzantium or Eastern Rome all the time. Like
Speaker 2: Constantinople will be like taxes Texas tonight, Queen taxes No,
Speaker 2: and they're like no, get out of here. So like,
Speaker 2: you know, there will be times when the Eastern Roman
Speaker 2: Empire shows up, but kind of like by the time
Speaker 2: you are nearing the end of the sixth century, this
Speaker 2: stuff is a done deal. And this is also kind
Speaker 2: of the time where a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 2: we see, especially in the seventh century, we get really
Speaker 2: good records from our good friend Iziodora Saville, who is
Speaker 2: like homeboy who likes to do fake etymology for everything.
Speaker 2: He's great. We love Iziodora Saville. You know, they have
Speaker 2: like your standard Barbarian state pro quote unquote, like we're
Speaker 2: they're initially all Aryan and then they have and they
Speaker 2: have to like convert well, but they by the time
Speaker 2: that they do convert, kind of at the end of
Speaker 2: the sixth century, you get up at this point in time,
Speaker 2: it's just kind of like this is just yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a Visicalthic state, but we're doing things in Latin, you know,
Speaker 2: we we are now you know, Catholic. They don't use
Speaker 2: the word Catholic, right, they're not. They're not Arians anymore.
Speaker 2: And they have driven out Eastern Rome and and basically
Speaker 2: take it over, and they kind of celebrate by immediately
Speaker 2: getting kind of anti Semitic with it, which is, which
Speaker 2: is cool because they're like, oh, yeah, we're gonna we're
Speaker 2: gonna like persecute this like a very large Jewish population
Speaker 2: that lives here, and there is like fighting back and
Speaker 2: forth in that kind of normal early medieval way, so
Speaker 2: you know, various nobles will go and at a fight
Speaker 2: with their cousin that sort of thing, but by and
Speaker 2: large they are hanging out here and ruling a really
Speaker 2: contiguous state at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and uh, you know when we say they ruled,
Speaker 1: they're like the Visigothic elite was like one to two
Speaker 1: percent of the population.
Speaker 3: They like they just didn't you know, they just did.
Speaker 2: They like it that way, right, because essentially they're they're
Speaker 2: they're they're working off of a particular legal code called
Speaker 2: the Visigothic Code, and it basically cements in to law
Speaker 2: that they are the boss of you.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So uh so they like it that way, right, Like
Speaker 2: they're very interested in promulgating you know, laws and society
Speaker 2: that mean that there is this tiny group of people
Speaker 2: who are an elite. But honestly, but may by the
Speaker 2: time we're in the seventh century, it's like they stop
Speaker 2: having the silly names and yeah, they stopped speaking Gothic
Speaker 2: whatever book that was, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so one a famous thing from the
Speaker 1: end of the Roman Empire where the Roman manners of
Speaker 1: the wealthy Roman citizens, was that something that had that
Speaker 1: extended out into Spain where those were those still a
Speaker 1: big thing out there were we starting to see uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like proto manorialism, proto feudalism or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it.
Speaker 3: At this point, Oh got it.
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, the the estates out in Spain are
Speaker 2: quite extensive, and you know, Spain is kind of where
Speaker 2: all the olive oil comes from mm in uh for
Speaker 2: the western Roman empires. So it's very funny. It's like,
Speaker 2: so the M four a come up from Tunis and
Speaker 2: they go over to they go over to Spain get
Speaker 2: filled with olive oil, and then they go to Rome
Speaker 2: and it's like a not so bad triangle trade anyway.
Speaker 2: Like so you do have these huge parcels of land
Speaker 2: and you still kind of retain the huge parcels of
Speaker 2: land thing, but the Visigoths are like, I'll have that one,
Speaker 2: thank you, like about yeah, exactly exactly, so you know,
Speaker 2: and the part of the reason that they're incredibly successful.
Speaker 2: Is they're super good at sort of like maintaining a
Speaker 2: lot of things. I mean, they do consider themselves more
Speaker 2: or less to be working under the Roman system. And
Speaker 2: when they come into power, they're like, we don't really
Speaker 2: want to topple what's going on. I mean, I will
Speaker 2: take the nicest manners available, thanks very much, But they don't.
Speaker 2: You don't want to take over Rome because you want
Speaker 2: to destroy it. You want to take over Rome because
Speaker 2: you want the money from it. And so that they
Speaker 2: they do a good job of kind of instilling some
Speaker 2: sort of close to Roman life that that sort of
Speaker 2: keeps ticking over. And yeah, so they're they're quite successful
Speaker 2: at having a unified, big fucking kingdom. I mean, like
Speaker 2: of the Roman successor states, this is the largest, yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and so yeah, just stick your mind right there.
Speaker 1: You know, it's about it's about sevent ten. The Visigoths
Speaker 1: rule over Iberia, and you know, things are going good
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 3: They're not you know, they're not worried nothing's coming. But
Speaker 3: now we got to jump.
Speaker 1: We got to jump back in time a little and
Speaker 1: go all the way across the Mediterranean, and let's briefly,
Speaker 1: take a look at the Levant in six sixty one.
Speaker 3: Uh So, here you go.
Speaker 1: This is the quickest summation of the first fifty years
Speaker 1: of Islam I could possibly do. The prophet Muhammad has
Speaker 1: formed the religion of Islam, won many victories in its name,
Speaker 1: and then died in six point thirty two. Islam is
Speaker 1: still unified religion under Abu Bakir and the Rashidan Caliphate,
Speaker 1: which formed in the wake of the Prophet's death, though
Speaker 1: cracks were beginning to form over political and theological disagreements
Speaker 1: regarding Mohammad's teachings and successors. In spite of these divisions,
Speaker 1: the early Muslim conquests were incredibly successful, and by six
Speaker 1: fifty one they had taken Egypt the entire Levant and
Speaker 1: literally wiped us and in Persia off the map, just
Speaker 1: fucking obliterated, get out of here, and Zoroastrian focks just
Speaker 1: annihilated them, which is said Astrianism loves. However, Ababakir died
Speaker 1: that year, and his successor, Uthman and his treatment of
Speaker 1: his own klan, the Banu Umaya, created even greater divisions,
Speaker 1: and he was assassinated by internal enemies, leaving Ali Mohammed's
Speaker 1: nephew as the new caliph, Ali faced a full blown
Speaker 1: Fitna or Islamic civil war and was himself a they
Speaker 1: needed by rivals in six sixty one, leaving Muawiya, a
Speaker 1: member of the Benu Umaya, to form the Umiad Caliphate
Speaker 1: upon his accession eleanor how did the Umids take this
Speaker 1: feuding bunch and within a century form the seventh largest
Speaker 1: land empire in world history. And to be clear everyone,
Speaker 1: the Umiads ruled from Iran all the way into the Levant,
Speaker 1: down all the way across northern Africa and up into
Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula and a small bit of southern France
Speaker 1: for a little while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they do it through rather a lot of pragmatism.
Speaker 2: Here's the answer to that. They kind of become the
Speaker 2: successors because they are already well connected. They're super well
Speaker 2: connected at tradespeople in Mecca when they kind of rise
Speaker 2: to power. And one of the way that they end
Speaker 2: up doing this is by really keeping shit in the family.
Speaker 2: So they're like, okay, look, you know other like previous
Speaker 2: unto this, other people would be a little bit like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: what are we all doing? Because wo we're doing Islam right,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to ask for your opinion on this,
Speaker 2: and the U Moons are like, fuck you, my uncle
Speaker 2: gets that, you know, kind of which makes it easier
Speaker 2: to keep people loyal and to an extent, stops a
Speaker 2: lot of the slap fighting. But I think also they
Speaker 2: are incredibly pragmatic and they do really smart things. So
Speaker 2: they kind of take over and you know, they're in
Speaker 2: this time of like the burgeoning expansion of Islam, and
Speaker 2: they take over rather a lot of land from Eastern Rome.
Speaker 2: But what they do in an incredibly smart way is
Speaker 2: they're like, we are keeping the legal practices, we are
Speaker 2: keeping like the administrative practices, and it's just that we're
Speaker 2: going to do things most Islamically now. And this creates
Speaker 2: a great deal of stability, which means that people aren't
Speaker 2: going to fucking fight back that hard, right like, and
Speaker 2: and that makes a really really big difference. So it's like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: like there's there's someone new that I'm paying taxes too,
Speaker 2: but fundamentally it's still pretty safe. They have a really
Speaker 2: smart administrative sector, so basically like they keep the Eastern
Speaker 2: Roman thing, which is like, so you've got like a
Speaker 2: political branch you've got a religious branch, a tax branch,
Speaker 2: and a military branch. So they maintain a professional army,
Speaker 2: which is a really big deal, and so they're they're
Speaker 2: able to kind of draw from that, which helps expansionist
Speaker 2: policy as well. They make local governors essentially of the
Speaker 2: various provinces that they rain, which are called Dwon's and
Speaker 2: so they will have the over archie Umid Caliphate, but
Speaker 2: there's some one locally that you can go speak to
Speaker 2: if you know, things need seeing to. So there is
Speaker 2: still kind of like enough localism that people don't necessarily
Speaker 2: feel unheard, which is a really big deal. You know,
Speaker 2: you pay your taxes, and they put a lot of
Speaker 2: money into various things like roads or like they have
Speaker 2: actual police forces. They have like a you know, really
Speaker 2: good policies in terms of keeping things ticking over and running,
Speaker 2: which you know, the locals love to see because you know,
Speaker 2: Eastern Rome had been getting a little bit lax with it,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of nice to see that. There is
Speaker 2: of course the old magic that uh jizia eggs happen
Speaker 2: as well, which is that like a you don't have
Speaker 2: to convert, so like who really gives a fuck? Who
Speaker 2: you're paying tax is to like provided all of the
Speaker 2: services are there, and be well, you might go ahead
Speaker 2: and convert if it's going to be like that and
Speaker 2: you don't have to pay taxes. But I mean to
Speaker 2: be fair with this, there are stratifications in Meian society, right,
Speaker 2: So it's like you've got Arabs right at the top,
Speaker 2: and it's like that's that's number one, like knew me.
Speaker 2: It's more particularly like the front their family right at
Speaker 2: the top, and so there's like Arabs right underneath that.
Speaker 2: You then have converts who are the locals, right, so
Speaker 2: you can make rather a lot of money off of that.
Speaker 2: Like you know, you can be a very successful merchant.
Speaker 2: You can do all kinds of things with the palace,
Speaker 2: but you're never going to like run the dwont right
Speaker 2: if you're a convert. But for most people it's like dude,
Speaker 2: I wasn't running it anyway, so whatever. And the further
Speaker 2: and further you get away from their power base, like
Speaker 2: in kind of around what's I guess it's Damascus at
Speaker 2: the time, then the more and more they're like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: we don't actually have enough Arabs over here. So like
Speaker 2: you can you can get a good government job, even
Speaker 2: though you're not Arab if you're a convert, right, So,
Speaker 2: and everybody loves a big government job, you know, like
Speaker 2: everybody loves to have their salary paid out of taxes.
Speaker 2: That's a really good thing. Then below that you have
Speaker 2: the other people of the book, and and you're like
Speaker 2: allowed to do what you're gonna do. But like you
Speaker 2: can't have a big government job, but you can like trade,
Speaker 2: do whatever the fuck it is you do.
Speaker 3: You can be.
Speaker 2: You can go ahead and be a peasant things of
Speaker 2: this nature. And then under that there are enslaved people.
Speaker 2: And I mean that that's kind of been par for
Speaker 2: the course, you know, certainly under both various kinds of Rome,
Speaker 2: and it certainly still is true like in Eastern Rome
Speaker 2: at the time. So yeah, so that's kind of how
Speaker 2: how things kind of sliced out. And because they've got
Speaker 2: this really complex government system, it helps with the military endeavors.
Speaker 2: So they've got this paid military and they managed to
Speaker 2: combine kind of like the best of Arabic tactics, which
Speaker 2: is like showing up on camels in the middle of
Speaker 2: the night and being like what you know, and it's
Speaker 2: me and being like, yeah, you're ready to fight, you know,
Speaker 2: but they use kind of Roman tactics. So like one
Speaker 2: of the big things that they're into is kind of
Speaker 2: like doing spear walls, yeah, things like that. So you know,
Speaker 2: they they're doing the big imperial things that are necessary
Speaker 2: to run a big fucking empire, which they end up doing, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So like, is there is there theory of empire
Speaker 1: if we can you know, attribute such a thing. It's
Speaker 1: if not, they don't. They're not aiming to convert the
Speaker 1: entire world. It's more just like we think the world
Speaker 1: would be much better off if it were under Muslim
Speaker 1: rule than it is now, and then you could pay
Speaker 1: us to taxes and worship as you wanted and it
Speaker 1: would be fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Basically they're like Marshal law bra, we need you to
Speaker 2: continue existing. It's like we want your tax money, right
Speaker 2: because I mean there is zakat that that Muslims pay,
Speaker 2: but that's that goes more towards charitable things, and it's
Speaker 2: like that's that's not going to do the roads homeie right,
Speaker 2: So you know you absolutely need that the non Muslim
Speaker 2: people around in order to make this work. And you know,
Speaker 2: so fundamentally, yeah, we call it a caliphate because it's
Speaker 2: got these specific Islamic characteristics for sure. But it's an empire,
Speaker 2: you know, and if you're going to run an empire,
Speaker 2: you have to have multiple groups of people. That's what
Speaker 2: makes it a fucking empire, right, and not just a kingdom.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So in the four flung regions of this empire, let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, in modern day Morocco, how are they like
Speaker 1: there can't be much ruling over a place like Morocco
Speaker 1: or al Andolous from Syria, So like are they is
Speaker 1: there a very independent They just have to keep up
Speaker 1: the rules and send their taxes back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what, but the thing is like
Speaker 2: the governors are probably going to be drawn from like
Speaker 2: the actual umiads and so so it's like they're going
Speaker 2: to send over a cousin or whatever to to to
Speaker 2: run the d won. But you know that is still
Speaker 2: going to be largely local people underneath them, because the
Speaker 2: further you get from Syria, the less likely a bunch
Speaker 2: of people are are to to kind of immigrate with it.
Speaker 2: But like you definitely you send over your uncle, You
Speaker 2: do a little bit of nepotism, like get your nephew
Speaker 2: out there. You know that that kind of a thing.
Speaker 2: So it kind of does two things. That maintains a
Speaker 2: connection to Syria and to the groups that are back
Speaker 2: out in the Levant and things like that, and it
Speaker 2: also allows for local people to not be too annoyed
Speaker 2: that these random foreigners control them. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that that takes us up to six or
Speaker 1: to seven eleven. That seven eleven, ha, like the gas station.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of good dates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that takes us up to seven eleven. And at
Speaker 1: that point, the Umiids had captured all the way to
Speaker 1: what we consider now Morocco and to the southern part
Speaker 1: of the Strait of Gibraltar. And they looked across, you know,
Speaker 1: the ten mile stretch, and they were like, you know,
Speaker 1: Africa's cool. You know, Western Asia is cool, but you
Speaker 1: know it might be cool southern Europe. How about southern Europe.
Speaker 1: I hear it's nicest time of year. And so they
Speaker 1: got everybody on a ship and they went across and
Speaker 1: they had a little vacation.
Speaker 3: No, I'm just kidding. It was an invasion.
Speaker 1: It's in July seven to eleven, the Umid forces under
Speaker 1: Terek even Ziad, when a crushing victory over the Visigoths
Speaker 1: under their king Roderick at the Battle of Guadaleta, and
Speaker 1: from there the invasion was pretty much unstopped for at
Speaker 1: least nine years. Abd al Aziz ibin Musa was named
Speaker 1: the first governor of al Andalous in seven point fifteen.
Speaker 3: He took Savill as his capital.
Speaker 1: By seven nineteen, Umid armies had conquered the entire peninsula
Speaker 1: up to the region of Asturias on the northern Atlantic coast,
Speaker 1: and extended their holdings along the Mediterranean coast past Barcelona,
Speaker 1: around the southern Pyrenees to just south of Narbonne in
Speaker 1: the Ostan region of present day France. The Islamic conquest
Speaker 1: of Iberia, meaning all the Portugal most of Spain outside
Speaker 1: of Asturias, was complete within a decade, though they would
Speaker 1: be permanently pushed south of the Pyrenees within you.
Speaker 3: Know, a few a few decades.
Speaker 1: The Immedian forces of Iberia then invaded Gaul, meaning France.
Speaker 1: They did make it all the way to Toulouse before
Speaker 1: losing a decisive battle to Odo the Great of Aquitaine,
Speaker 1: after nearly securing the city and a stronghold for Islam.
Speaker 1: But we'll get more into their adventures with the Franks
Speaker 1: next time.
Speaker 3: So eleanor.
Speaker 1: How are the Visigoths so easily taken? I mean, sure,
Speaker 1: it's been a while since you know, Aleric the day
Speaker 1: is of Alaric, But like these are like, you know,
Speaker 1: these are Visigoths, they're barbarians. How did they how are
Speaker 1: they so easily defeated? And why did they fold like
Speaker 1: a fucking desk chair.
Speaker 2: The answer is it's testament to how good their state
Speaker 2: was and how unified it was. Yeah, you can't. You
Speaker 2: can't topple like a ragtag bunch of city states very
Speaker 2: easily because you have to defeat them all one by one.
Speaker 2: Right with the Visigoths, they have a contiguous kingdom that
Speaker 2: is running under one rule of law, and all you
Speaker 2: have to do is kill enough of them and get
Speaker 2: to the head of government and the whole thing just
Speaker 2: falls over. And you know, they've been fighting with each other,
Speaker 2: you know, they've been fighting kind of varying battles, you know,
Speaker 2: like on the frontiers and stuff like that, as one
Speaker 2: usually does. But there's still such thing at this point
Speaker 2: as an invading force other than you know, the the Uviiots,
Speaker 2: because they're the ones that have like a whole empire
Speaker 2: behind them, right, you know, And it was harder for
Speaker 2: Eastern Rome to do it because when they want to
Speaker 2: do it, they have to get on ships from Constantinople,
Speaker 2: whereas these guys they just got to jump over the strait, right,
Speaker 2: So it's not like, you know, they don't have the
Speaker 2: same issues with like landing and issues there. And they
Speaker 2: also have naval back up from provinces like you know,
Speaker 2: in Tunisia, in Sicily, you know, in all these places
Speaker 2: that are really nearby, so they can always go get
Speaker 2: more people, Whereas if Constantinople want reinforcements, they got to
Speaker 2: go all the way back to like an Asia Minor
Speaker 2: on a boat, right, So it's much more difficult. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's interesting because essentially what happens is they're
Speaker 2: victims of their own success. You can topple them because
Speaker 2: they are well sensualized and because there isn't really anyone
Speaker 2: who's been able to challenge them in any meaningful way
Speaker 2: for a couple of hundred years. So as a result,
Speaker 2: they then just fall over. And I mean the other
Speaker 2: thing that happens is the same thing that kind of
Speaker 2: happens everywhere where they go to the nobles and they're like, look,
Speaker 2: just FYI, you could keep it. Yeah, Like I'm not
Speaker 2: telling you that you have to stop being a strong
Speaker 2: and involved noble family. And so they're like, oh word, okay,
Speaker 2: well I'm not gonna like send out my sons to
Speaker 2: die that right, Like I'm not. I'm not gonna make
Speaker 2: them go like face this kind of like well drilled,
Speaker 2: actual professional military, which they do not have, you know,
Speaker 2: like they're they're doing it the medieval way. They're all like, yeah,
Speaker 2: like where's your son's Hey, yeah, everyone to queen like
Speaker 2: give yours to a stick and make a broad over there,
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, you know, look, they're telling me I
Speaker 2: don't have to convert. I just have to pay taxes.
Speaker 2: I'm paying taxes anyway, yeah, because the Visigoths have a
Speaker 2: strong state, and you know they're paying taxes. So again
Speaker 2: it's the same thing where it's like I don't really
Speaker 2: care who I'm paying taxes to, provided I get to
Speaker 2: keep my land and my sons are alive and whatever.
Speaker 2: And you know, the remaining Visigoths they fuck back off
Speaker 2: to Astorius. And I just want to do a shout
Speaker 2: out here because uh, we refer to the Kingdom of
Speaker 2: Ustorius as a rump state. That's right, And I think
Speaker 2: that's just a fun term. So yeah, and so you
Speaker 2: know that they sit up there to be mad. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, most of the noble families, who'd
Speaker 2: all been like fighting with each other, fighting with the
Speaker 2: king anyway, are like, Okay, well that lad'll take the
Speaker 2: king down to pay Yeah whatever, dude, right, they fight
Speaker 2: his ass anyway, So like they don't care. They don't care,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Osterius is like the main holdout and they're
Speaker 1: able to do that because it's a really difficult it's
Speaker 1: it's not an easy region to access up there along
Speaker 1: the northern coast. But yeah, they they hold out. It's
Speaker 1: you know, it's tenuous. But the thing about it is that,
Speaker 1: as Eleanor said, most of the Visigothic leaders and the
Speaker 1: powerful landowners just signed conditional agreements with the with the
Speaker 1: Umids uh their land. Their lands were independent, autonomous regions
Speaker 1: under broader Umian rule, and it was very indirect.
Speaker 3: There was a.
Speaker 1: Muslim on top, but other than that, the structure basically
Speaker 1: stayed the same as long as the leader didn't foment
Speaker 1: rebellion or attack the umids, their lands weren't plundered. Now
Speaker 1: there are, of course people who didn't do that. Towns
Speaker 1: and cities that resisted were subject to the same conventions
Speaker 1: of medieval battles, meaning they were sacked, plundered, sometimes destroyed, uh,
Speaker 1: and then they were put under direct umid administration.
Speaker 3: So it's a very.
Speaker 2: Well you can see why people capitulated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're if your options are
Speaker 1: like fight this army that has basically lost like maybe
Speaker 1: one battle on since they moved into Europe in like
Speaker 1: the decade, Like if they roll into Barcelona, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: Bartelona and you're the guy there, like and you're the governor,
Speaker 1: They're like, are you gonna roll out and fight these
Speaker 1: guys or are you gonna be like, well, they said,
Speaker 1: I could sign a contract and they're not going to
Speaker 1: kill my family, or they're not going to sack the
Speaker 1: town and we just have to pay a tax to
Speaker 1: stay created. Like that's unless you are like, uh, offended.
Speaker 3: On a moral level about this.
Speaker 1: It is, and it's a pretty easy choice to make,
Speaker 1: especially like because they do the because the Visigothsts clearly
Speaker 1: didn't have a standing army that they could get together
Speaker 1: that could.
Speaker 5: Could defeat the Yeah, yeah, like I mean, because that's
Speaker 5: the whole thing about like Barbarians is they're just kind
Speaker 5: of like doing it, you know, and they'll they'll take
Speaker 5: over the Roman.
Speaker 2: Structure, but they can't afford yeah, at army and it's
Speaker 2: ken So like there you go, like that's that's it, baby,
Speaker 2: you know, that's dialectics.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not that.
Speaker 3: Not dialectics, that's just making the decision.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and the thing about it is, you know,
Speaker 1: like we talk about Christian and Jewish toleration here and
Speaker 1: people might kind of roll their eyes or something like that,
Speaker 1: and I kind of get the inclination because I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, really.
Speaker 3: But.
Speaker 1: Our only direct source for this time period is something
Speaker 1: called the Chronicle of seven fifty four and it's written
Speaker 1: by Christians and it's very pro Christian, but even they
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, we still got to practice. We had
Speaker 1: to pay money. Like so the stuff that we're talking
Speaker 1: about here is written by Christians from a pro Christian perspective,
Speaker 1: but even they're like, yeah, I mean they still let
Speaker 1: us practice. Like even in the even in the towns
Speaker 1: that they had to sack, they didn't stop those people
Speaker 1: from being Christian or Jewish, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Like one of my favorite sources from this
Speaker 2: period is called the Barterers of Cordoba, and there is
Speaker 2: this great story in it where Saint Eulogia she's like
Speaker 2: a Muslim and she wants to convert and her parents
Speaker 2: are like a fuck, no, no, get out of here, like,
Speaker 2: get out of here with that. You're not converting to shit, girl,
Speaker 2: and and like the Martyrs of Cordova is like, oh God,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't she's so oppressed or whatever, and I
Speaker 2: can't believe they would let her convert. And then she's like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm going to a party, and her parents are like, okay,
Speaker 2: go have fun, have funny, have fun at your party.
Speaker 2: And then she like goes to the cathedral and studies
Speaker 2: with the Christians there and then like converts right and
Speaker 2: is lying to her parents about where she gets. So,
Speaker 2: you know, even in a story which is about like
Speaker 2: oppressive you know, Muslim parents or whatever, you can still
Speaker 2: like walk out the door because they're like, yeah, go
Speaker 2: have fun at your party, babe, and then like walk
Speaker 2: over to the fucking cathedral, right, Like it's not it's
Speaker 2: not exactly like a difficult thing. And she's like, and
Speaker 2: she's studying under a bunch of duns. And then eventually
Speaker 2: like she's like, I'm staying with the nuns, and her
Speaker 2: prayers are like you get back here right now, young lady,
Speaker 2: and she's like no, I won and then and then
Speaker 2: like and then like basically she gets threatened with death.
Speaker 2: And I think that though, what that kind of like
Speaker 2: comes down to is it's a little bit more of
Speaker 2: like a disobedient child of nobility, yeah thing, and they're like, girl,
Speaker 2: could you just fucking knock it off? And she's like no,
Speaker 2: and then gets kid. It's like and that's the story,
Speaker 2: and like from the most hostile possible fucking witness, we
Speaker 2: get a picture of Gordoba as a pretty integrated place
Speaker 2: where you can just walk around and talk to nuns
Speaker 2: all you want, even when you are a daughter of
Speaker 2: the nobility.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's you know, there was an inter religious conflict, Uh, definitely,
Speaker 1: because there always is. It doesn't oh God yet what
Speaker 1: kind of religion they are, even if they're not really competing,
Speaker 1: you know, they still technically are. And uh, there was
Speaker 1: definitely that was definitely, you know, there were definitely issues,
Speaker 1: but the like the real like this is a civilizational
Speaker 1: battle between Christianity and Islam. Idea had not been fostered yet,
Speaker 1: like at that point to Western European Christians before they
Speaker 1: invaded it that if they knew about it, that was
Speaker 1: like they're dealing with Constantinople.
Speaker 3: I don't give a shit about that.
Speaker 2: Like once I got to do with it, and like
Speaker 2: what exactly.
Speaker 3: Do with me and Achen or whatever?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like when you're in Auchen, you're like hah,
Speaker 2: like finally someone's taking those visigoths down a bag, you know,
Speaker 2: like later where you're like, yeah, fuck you. You know,
Speaker 2: so there's you know, it's not like anyone in Ireland
Speaker 2: was like oh no, not not you know.
Speaker 1: And it's not like and it's not like the Franks
Speaker 1: or Charles Martel or Charlemagne invaded Iberia to free it
Speaker 1: from Muslim rules. They just wanted to push them back
Speaker 1: as the Pyrenees. And they did that for the most
Speaker 1: party that they occasionally lost in our bone again, but
Speaker 1: you know, they it wasn't like, you know, we have
Speaker 1: to run all these Muslim dogs out. It was like
Speaker 1: get out, just go south of the Pyrenees. I don't care,
Speaker 1: go go go stop it do not come north of
Speaker 1: the Pyrenees. And for a long time, those you know,
Speaker 1: they were pretty fine with it. And you know, we'll
Speaker 1: obviously get to where like the reconquista starts. But I mean,
Speaker 1: like you eleanor you think you can like kind of
Speaker 1: date the idea of the reconquista to this era in
Speaker 1: like osterious like as.
Speaker 2: A kind of I mean like they're like thing maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I have a difficulty with the concepts of
Speaker 2: the reconkista because like, yeah, Franco came up with it,
Speaker 2: and I don't fucking like him, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: a but what yeah, Like I mean like the idea
Speaker 2: like no one, no one in the Middle Ages is
Speaker 2: like it's a reconquista, Like this isn't this isn't a m.
Speaker 1: But didn't didn't the uh Isabella and uh whatever his
Speaker 1: name is. Didn't they petition the pope to like do
Speaker 1: a crusade type thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yes, but they call it a crusade. They
Speaker 2: don't call it.
Speaker 3: Okay, I see, Okay, I think.
Speaker 2: And so that's I think important because a reconquest sets
Speaker 2: up this thing of like oh yeah, like the ongoing
Speaker 2: battle of like you know, whatever, and Franco is the
Speaker 2: one who comes up and is like were quista all
Speaker 2: the time, whereas the like do they call it? Do
Speaker 2: they call it a crusade for Nana and Isabella? Yes,
Speaker 2: they absolutely do. But like like are the Visigoths sitting
Speaker 2: up in Astorias being like I'm gonna take back over
Speaker 2: my land. Absolutely, but they're not like I'm doing it
Speaker 2: for Christendom, girl, this is about Christen And they're like,
Speaker 2: I want my leg belogus to me, that ship's mine,
Speaker 2: you stuff back, yeah, one hundred percent, Like it's not.
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with like oh like I
Speaker 2: oh christ would want this, Like that's not what they're saying.
Speaker 2: What they're saying is I want I want my shit.
Speaker 2: And you know, as we're gonna see going forward, dude,
Speaker 2: like they like lands are changing hands, kingdoms go back
Speaker 2: and forth, willy nilly, people are in and out of
Speaker 2: each other's pockets.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Elsied is like now I'll work for the Muslims. Now
Speaker 2: I'm over here, you know, and they're they it's like
Speaker 2: they you could be a Christian ruler with the you know,
Speaker 2: Islamic vassals and vice versa. Right, Like it's just a
Speaker 2: fucking mess down there actually, And so it is true
Speaker 2: that for non of Isabella are like I want to
Speaker 2: definitively christianize the Iberian Peninsula. But that's why they're modern.
Speaker 3: Right, that's seven over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like and and that's why, like my argument
Speaker 2: you know about like where does you know with the
Speaker 2: constant where does the Middle Ages and the early Modern
Speaker 2: period begin? My argument on the Iberian Peninsula is always
Speaker 2: for Isabella, yeah, because like yeah, because it's like medieval
Speaker 2: people were like, I don't know, man, there's just a
Speaker 2: lot a bunch of different people here. It's kind of wild, right,
Speaker 2: for Nana Isabella are like no, right, it's like ethno
Speaker 2: stake time. And it's like you can't like it. That's
Speaker 2: so modern, right, Like that idea that you could that
Speaker 2: you could have such a thing, Yeah, and that there's
Speaker 2: a way of there's a way of kind of adjudicating that.
Speaker 2: So you know, my my argument is always like that's modern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because even in the Crusades, they well how
Speaker 1: am I trying to say this? They did in some
Speaker 1: cases create f no states over there with the Crusader states,
Speaker 1: but they were confined to that area and they did
Speaker 1: you know they they made deals in treaties with Muslim
Speaker 1: powers in the region and stuff like that, And it
Speaker 1: wasn't like they weren't trying to like cleanse Muslims out
Speaker 1: of like Syria so much as they were like the
Speaker 1: Holy Land is ours because Jerusalem is ours, which is
Speaker 1: a terrible like that's a terrible idea and like it's
Speaker 1: the basis of colonialism and nationalism and so many other
Speaker 1: problems in the world.
Speaker 3: But like it's not setting up an ethno state yet.
Speaker 1: And you know, at that point, the thing of like
Speaker 1: a European like Christendom is like.
Speaker 3: A very.
Speaker 1: Pretty new idea, Like it wouldn't have come up, oh
Speaker 1: yeah until well after Charlemagne, probably not until the Altonians
Speaker 1: and the Holy Roman Empire, and even then it would
Speaker 1: still be kind of iffy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean, like for the most part,
Speaker 2: Hispania is like a Christian at this point because like
Speaker 2: they had done bid because Rome was right, and and
Speaker 2: they're kind of like, yeah, well, we're one of the
Speaker 2: Roman successor states doing this because of a concept of romanness,
Speaker 2: not because of an idea of European ness, and like
Speaker 2: not necessarily as a part of a concept of Christianity either,
Speaker 2: they're just kind of like, yeah, well where we're Roman,
Speaker 2: so like this is this is what Romans do, This
Speaker 2: is what makes one Roman. I mean, like my god,
Speaker 2: it's it's not like Scandinavia is fucking Christianized yet at
Speaker 2: this point in Jesus, like, I mean the Czechs are
Speaker 2: about to get Christianized.
Speaker 1: Is England even fully Christianized at this point it's still.
Speaker 2: Like it's still it's still pretty iffy, like in varying places.
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, this.
Speaker 1: Is right after Bead wrote and he was still complaining
Speaker 1: about all the Pagans in Northumbria and everywhere, you know, like.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, I mean like fucking Saint Wencheslaus and
Speaker 2: his grandma are doing their thing over in the Czech
Speaker 2: Republic and like the eight hundred. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: the Europe is like, as a Christian place is not
Speaker 2: a fucking done deal by any starts of the imagination.
Speaker 2: So it's like, well, I guess what what we're doing
Speaker 2: is we're kind of like establishing what the frontier of
Speaker 2: Christendom would be in theory.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean they didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Europe is like a like continental like as like
Speaker 1: the concept of the entire continent of Europe being united
Speaker 1: to some degree is like at this point not affable.
Speaker 1: Like even when they do the first Crusade, that's still
Speaker 1: going to be exclusively from Western and a tiny sliver
Speaker 1: of central Europe with uh, with the German with some
Speaker 1: of the German lands, like the rest of it, like
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe is not going to be like involved in that,
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of Southern Europe isn't either,
Speaker 1: And so it's like, you know.
Speaker 2: You like go to someone in Denmark and tell them
Speaker 2: that they're the same as someone in Sevilla, Like do it,
Speaker 2: I dare.
Speaker 3: They?
Speaker 1: There's no, there's not that homogeneity there. But this is
Speaker 1: part of I think what we're trying to make clear
Speaker 1: is while the homogeneity was not there yet, this is
Speaker 1: part of the process that begins uh cohesing and forming
Speaker 1: into that. And you know, that's that's all underlouse, that's
Speaker 1: what it's going to be. And and as we go along,
Speaker 1: you'll see it's so fucking important to the future, like
Speaker 1: just insanely important to the future of the world that
Speaker 1: like this thing was here and like the way that
Speaker 1: this allowed everything to form because the like first inklings
Speaker 1: of crusades, long before Isabella and Ferdinand were into parts
Speaker 1: of all andoluce to like hey, you get him out
Speaker 1: of there, and that's what they base uh you know,
Speaker 1: the whole first Crusade on. So yeah, it's uh part,
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's something.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a.
Speaker 1: Lot of it's interesting and it definitely flies in the
Speaker 1: face of what you normally think of as an invasion,
Speaker 1: because while there were battles and they did fight, there
Speaker 1: was also a lot of like, all right, you signed
Speaker 1: the agreement, so you guys get back to pick and
Speaker 1: olives and you landowner get back to drinking refreshing beverages
Speaker 1: on your porch while your slaves or serfs.
Speaker 3: Or whatever past.
Speaker 1: Pick pick the stuff. And like, yeah, that's what they did.
Speaker 1: And so it's a it's very it's a very interesting thing.
Speaker 1: And I'm I always just I love Alanderlous because like
Speaker 1: it's just so it's this thing that people talk about
Speaker 1: as like this horror show of like Islamic violence, and
Speaker 1: then you read about and it's like, hey, we showed up,
Speaker 1: We took the land because it was there to conquer,
Speaker 1: just like anyone else in in Europe or the Old
Speaker 1: World or probably the New World would have at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, and yeah, and we did it, and we
Speaker 1: just let everybody continue worshiping as long as they didn't
Speaker 1: try to established in the back. When we walk down
Speaker 1: the road, you know, it's like.
Speaker 2: Well, they brought you a date palm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they brought you a date palm. You got the
Speaker 1: camel you see.
Speaker 3: Camels, I mean they've probably seen camels.
Speaker 2: The introduced pineapples, they introduced dates, like they introduced a yeah,
Speaker 2: like I think, really, wait, no, it can't be pineapples.
Speaker 2: I was about to say no, but they definitely introduced
Speaker 2: date palms. They definitely. They definitely introduced like all of
Speaker 2: these like cool fruits and things, and everyone is like, hell, yeah,
Speaker 2: I fucking love.
Speaker 1: Dats, I love dates, I love a fig Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't be pineapples. Those are New World, aren't they.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And if it wasn't sweet potatoes, there's really nothing else
Speaker 1: from the New World over and even that that was
Speaker 1: just Indonesia or Polynesia rather so yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Could smash a pineapple now down.
Speaker 3: Oh I love pineapples.
Speaker 1: Brain yeah, I mean it's just so good, like and
Speaker 1: you know pineapples, Like a millions of years ago, Pineapple
Speaker 1: was thinking like, ah, I finally tricked these fuckers. I
Speaker 1: got all these spines on the outside. We were like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's cool man. Did you know we can just reach
Speaker 1: around the tip of it and the pineapples like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm just cool looking thing. And one day Swingers will
Speaker 1: use me as a symbol of something that I'm still
Speaker 1: not clear about.
Speaker 2: Do you know there were really big pineapples as symbols
Speaker 2: in kind of like the Georgian period here, So like
Speaker 2: when Wren was redesigning all the churches that got are
Speaker 2: down by the Great Fire of London, and he redesigned
Speaker 2: Saint Paul's, he wanted to put pineapples on top of
Speaker 2: it Swinger Cathedral. But then they were like, you can't
Speaker 2: put a pineapple on top of the cathedral. And he's
Speaker 2: like okay, and so there's like he's.
Speaker 1: Fine, I'll make it the I'll make it the glory
Speaker 1: of God.
Speaker 3: And he puts it up there and.
Speaker 1: It's like like a it kind of looks like a
Speaker 1: sun going up, but then the closer you look at it,
Speaker 1: it's just like shape like a pineapple.
Speaker 2: And the Bishop's like, I think that there are still
Speaker 2: some pineapples on it.
Speaker 1: But that's amazing. Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting. And
Speaker 1: next time when we come back, we'll talk about the
Speaker 1: Battle of Tours and Charles Martel and you know why
Speaker 1: it's kind of overblown and what happened after that, because
Speaker 1: because the story kind of stops right there for a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of time, and it's like Charles Martel, Charlemagne,
Speaker 1: skip forward a bunch of years, the end of the
Speaker 1: recon key or you know, the Spanish retaking the peninsula
Speaker 1: for Christianity or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, Yeah, it'll be fun. We'll get into it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's very because the lemon tree was haunted vibes, so you.
Speaker 3: Know pretty much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't like it because it was haunted. Now
Speaker 1: now let's all enjoy a nice glass of turnip juice. Yeah, folks,
Speaker 1: thank y'all so much for listening.
Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed it. We hope you are as.
Speaker 1: Cautiously pleased with the Pope as we are, at least
Speaker 1: in terms of how funny it's going to be.
Speaker 2: But you know, off in the comment, it's about your
Speaker 2: favorite Chicago regional dish is an Italian beef? It is
Speaker 2: it deep dish?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 1: Should the Pope appear on the next season of The
Speaker 1: Bear Who's to say, yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean it does he get a box at Bulls games?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Who knows?
Speaker 1: Who knows?
Speaker 3: God? I would hope he wouldn't want to go watch
Speaker 3: Bulls games.
Speaker 1: They'd be like, like if I was the Pope, they'd
Speaker 1: be like, Sir, you have all these responsibilities. Shut up,
Speaker 1: I have to watch the the Atlanta Hawks lose by
Speaker 1: fifteen Charlotte team, shut up. I'm good stuff, Like why
Speaker 1: do you torture yourself? Like That's how I tricked them
Speaker 1: to say I was Catholic because I just torture myself
Speaker 1: by watching Atlanta sports.
Speaker 2: But it's what God wants. It could be worse. It
Speaker 2: could be from Seattle and just sitting around hoping that
Speaker 2: like it's coming They Thunder.
Speaker 1: Just coming back. I mean, the Thunder are not leaving,
Speaker 1: but the Sonics will come back.
Speaker 2: I curse them. I cursed them from my boy.
Speaker 3: I don't want them to win.
Speaker 2: I don't want so I'm I am going to cancel
Speaker 2: my like NBA package if they win the next fucking ri.
Speaker 2: I hate them so much, like I can't, like I
Speaker 2: begin shouting blairs like I'm not having fun. I can't
Speaker 2: look at them, can't I can't be around in the
Speaker 2: area when they're there.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I understand, Uh yeah, our only hope for
Speaker 1: a good finals at this point is uh Nick's t Wolves.
Speaker 1: UH Pacers might be fun too, but if they just
Speaker 1: it's gonna.
Speaker 3: Be a four to oh. I just don't think.
Speaker 2: They have the you know, do you think they have
Speaker 2: the juice?
Speaker 1: I just don't think they have the depth for it.
Speaker 1: They're a really good team, and I love.
Speaker 3: Jokic, h and everybody love Jokic.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're they're really fun to watch, but like
Speaker 1: they go like six seven deep right now. And I
Speaker 1: mean one of those is Westbrook and he hustles all
Speaker 1: the time, but you know, he's not as good as
Speaker 1: he once was, and you know, so I just don't
Speaker 1: think they have the depth.
Speaker 2: But do you know what, there's a pope that has
Speaker 2: opinions on this. Now, there's a fucking pope who has
Speaker 2: opinions on this.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, there's a pope on this. He has uh,
Speaker 1: he has opinions on what the Bulls should do and
Speaker 1: why they should get rid of Josh Giddy and he
Speaker 1: kicked out of the league for being a fucking freak.
Speaker 3: Like a like a not like a.
Speaker 2: Did you do? You know what I'm gonna do? Sorry
Speaker 2: quick NBA chat before we go. I think that next
Speaker 2: year I'm going to attempt to draft an all Jalen
Speaker 2: NBA fantasy team.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna call him Van Jalen. They're actually pretty
Speaker 2: good on paper. I've done, I've crunched the numbers.
Speaker 1: Luke a Man a Plan a Canal, jaylen Ama. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: the NBA is great. NBA playoffs are fantastic. You should
Speaker 1: check him out if you have it. Uh, also you
Speaker 1: should check out I didn't even get to talk about it.
Speaker 1: The series finale of and Or was yesterday fucking phenomenal.
Speaker 1: We will be covering it on the bonus episodes at
Speaker 1: some point. So yeah, that's a good reason to sign
Speaker 1: up for the Patreon Anyway, if you're still listening to
Speaker 1: this deep in, uh hope you thanks VA chat and
Speaker 1: then TV chat eleanor what other chat have you got
Speaker 1: going on?
Speaker 2: It is not this I don't fucking know anymore. Bro, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I mean, one of those points
Speaker 2: where I'm doing a bunch of stuff but none of
Speaker 2: it's out yet, so watch this space otherwise, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: go back and read things on the blog Going hyphenmdieval
Speaker 2: dot com. Buy my book launch in future sex h Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. If you want to hear me be
Speaker 2: all business, you can check out Gone Medieval. But you
Speaker 2: know it's fine. I have to be serious over there,
Speaker 2: so you know.
Speaker 3: I have to talk like this at all times. Well,
Speaker 3: as you know in the Middle Ages, we don't quite yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's oh, it's much real complicated than that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's very interesting that you would say that.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's like a it's like a PBS like
Speaker 1: like you know, history debate thing that.
Speaker 3: Oh well, well I understand your position on the matter.
Speaker 3: I do not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, basically no, I'm just kidding. It's a good show.
Speaker 1: Go listen to it. If you haven't, don't let eleanor
Speaker 1: sell herself short. Yeah, and you guys know where you
Speaker 1: find me. Luke is amazing on the various media's social
Speaker 1: and you can find me yapping about Star Wars. If
Speaker 1: you want to hear more about that from years ago.
Speaker 1: You can find me at People's History of the Republic.
Speaker 1: You can find that where we're listening to this, So yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you all very much for listening. Enjoy your new Pope,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Bye.