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Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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where we left off with the tovin Owell interview with

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the OIJ Inspectors. The recorder is back on. It's currently

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one forty six pm and this is Senior Special Agent redacted.

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I'm just reminding you, miss Noel, you're under oath and

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this is a voluntary interview. Thank you again for your cooperation.

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So when we took a break, is there anything that

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you wanted to add from the last thing we were

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talking about the difference between the four, the ten, and

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the twelve and the different numbers. Noel, on the plus one,

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I don't know where the plus one came from. I

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absolutely counted at ten. I don't know why is there

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a plus one? And then when the number changed, like

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there's something that's sometimes it's called like a ghost count.

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I don't know. I don't remember if that's what happened.

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So whereas control, we'll call you and say put as

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a ghost count. So the inmate is not physically there,

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but they know where the inmate is because they didn't

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redo the count sheet. So that's the only thing I

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can think of the ghost count question. I could think

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it may be a ghost count for the plus one,

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but if you're writing the numbers and it's supposed to be,

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I mean, when you're she gets caught off. I'm talking

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about for seventy three and then how it changed to

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seventy two. Noel says, as far as the plus one,

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I don't know about the plus one. I'm talking about

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the seventy three. Question. When you do account that you

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list on it, isn't it the physical inmates that are there? Noel? Yeah, question,

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you can't ever say that you can't list somebody that

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is not on there. Correct Noel, correct question right, So

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you see, Noel, No, But what I'm saying, Okay, Like

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like I said, I really don't remember. But let's say

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if I counted seventy two and they said ghost count John,

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and I put seventy three. As far as the plus one,

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I don't know, and I put seventy three because they

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know where the inmate is, and then after for the

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next count they fix the roster because that's why it's

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called a ghost count, because they didn't move to where

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the person is supposed to be, and then they fix

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it on the next one that could have been how

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the count went down in seventy two, But as far

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as the plus one, I don't know where the plus

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one went question. All right, So who was in the

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shoe at ten pm when you conduct this count? Noel,

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me and redacted question just the two of you? Noel, Yeah.

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Question he's sleeping, Noel. Yeah. Question. What conversation did you

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have with anybody about the count? Noel, That's what I'm saying.

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I don't recall. That's the only thing that could have happened.

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But I don't recall. Question. But if they told you

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to do that at ten pm, as you just noticed,

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at twelve am the count, that's when they catch that

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the counts are wrong. Noel. Right. Question, So if I

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told you that he gets cut off by Noel, Well,

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not at the time, at the twelve time, I'm saying,

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like when it changed from I'm not looking at that time,

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but when it changed from seventy two to the seventy

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two at the time. Question right, So no inmate was

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removed from the shoe after ten pm? Noel, No question.

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There's only seventy two inmates in the shoe at ten pm, Noel,

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I don't as far as the numbers go, I don't

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remember accurately the numbers, but no inmates moved question right, Noel,

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there was no movement. Question And that's just where we're

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trying to get to this. If you're swearing up and down,

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you know, under oath, I conducted this count, Noel, I

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did question, but there's only seventy two people there at

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twelve am. That's when the lieutenant catches, Hey, guys, there's

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only seventy two people in there. You've got to redo

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this count and give me a new count. Slip and

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when did this happen? Foy Let me just say something here.

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It says at at ten, I'm looking at the ten

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that it was seventy three on the outside were redacted?

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Question correct? Foy right. So the control and her slip

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matches question right. So she calls in the number Foy right. Question.

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So she's calling in because somewhere before ten pm an

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inmate wasn't removed from the list Foy right. Question, although

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they were not present in the shoe. So if they're

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doing account, that's where it's supposed to say, that's the

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actual number that's in here, Foy right. Question. And at

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that point control would say, we have seventy three where's

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the problem here? But she called in seventy three foy

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right question or yeah instead of seventy two question. So

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you're right, the master list is off, but so is

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the count slip. The count slip is provided first question,

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but they're not off right technically. At ten the master

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list is that front page and this is asked by

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the union rep. Question the master list is wrong. It

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said seventy three redacted correct union Rep. So there may

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be something you know that we don't question. Oh, we've

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already talked to hundreds of people about this Union Rep.

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I'm sure question. So that's where I mean, not hundreds,

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but you know what I mean, Union Rep. A few people,

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question a lot of people. So this is where we're

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just asking the only person that was there that was

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actually you know, the other guy was sleeping. There's only

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one person physically present in there, and that was you,

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miss Noel. Noel, yeah, question. So that's why we're asking you.

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Everyone else clear as day says, well, it shows it's

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just proof that that's how the count wasn't conducted. That's

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what everybody else says, all the way up to the

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highest levels. So That's why if you're saying that the

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count was conducted, you're just saying, Noel, I did the

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count question. You just counted wrong, Noel, I did do

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the count question by the union. And I'm asking this

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because I think if we're confused, miss noel Is might

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be confused. Correct me if I'm wrong, Noel, Right, like,

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because I didn't even she gets cut off by the

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union rep if the employee. Let's use a simple number

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for the sake of it, right, I'm an employee. I

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count for living, breathing bodies on Unita, and then I

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call you who is located eight floors downstairs? And I

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say I have four bodies on Unita And you say

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to me, that's a good count. Right. That's what these

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documents imply took place, because the front page is prepared

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by a completely different person in a completely different area

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redacted exactly. So what these documents actually imply is that

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the institution count show that there were seventy three people

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in there. There were only seventy two people in there.

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So what they imply is that the count wasn't conducted

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because there were only seventy two people in there, and

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it was just based on the number that should have

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been based upon the system. The system showed there were

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seventy three, so they wrote seventy three on the slip.

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That's what the documentation implies. Union Rep. I get that question, However,

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there were only seventy two people in there. Union Rep. Now,

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I understand what you're saying. Question. So that's why I'm asking.

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It's hard for me to get past his question if

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you're saying, yes, I counted seventy three when there are

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only seventy two bodies in there. Noel, no I absolutely

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counted as far as the number, like I said, in

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remembering how much bodies I counted, But I counted. Question,

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So you counted, You just didn't You didn't maybe have

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the numbers up Noel, right, or it was she's cut off.

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And that's why I wanted to make sure the difference

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between around and account. Noel, no I counted. Question, you counted,

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but Noel. And the reason why that always stood out

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to me because I remember he was on a triple

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and he said he was tired, and I counted. Question,

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So just give me a little more information on what

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you're just saying. You know you counted, but what Noel,

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no I'm saying, I know I absolutely counted, and that

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always stood out to me because I remember he was

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on a triple and he was tired. Question sure, Noel,

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And I counted by myself, which I'm not supposed to do,

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so I remember that. But as far as the numbers go,

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I don't remember this because I didn't even remember something

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about a plus one until I seen the count slip, Like,

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I don't recall nothing about a plus one. Question right, Noel.

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So as far as the numbers, I'm not sure. But

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as far as counting, I absolutely counted. Question are you

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sure you counted seventy three? Noel? That's what I'm saying.

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As far as the numbers go, I don't remember, but

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I counted. Question let's see you counted? What So I mean,

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what did you do with the numbers that you counted? Noel?

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What I'm saying is the count could have been off,

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But I'm just letting you know that I actually did count.

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As far as the actual numbers, that's where the discrepancy

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comes in. Question, So did you count and then look

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at the system what showed was in there and you

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just decided to put what the system showed, Noel? Because

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I don't know how to look for that question. You

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don't even know how to find Noel cuts them off.

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Look for the count in the system, no question. So

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where would you if you're prepopulating things, where would you

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get the numbers from? In order? Noel cuts them off.

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When you come in, the person that you're leaving will

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be like, I got seventy two or I got seventy five. Question,

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So someone who you relieved would have told you that

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there were seventy three? Noel? Correct question, all right? And

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you know who would have told you that there was

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seventy three? Noel, I don't know. Question. Would it have

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been redacted before he fell asleep? Noel? I don't remember.

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Question all right? So again, just help me try to

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understand if there's only seventy two people in there, how

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you wrote seven three? If you counted, Noel, Again, that's

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what I'm saying, I could have miscounted. I don't remember

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what happened as far as the actual number of the count.

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I can only just tell you that I counted. As

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far as numbers go, I don't remember. Question right. So

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you counted each tier, Noel? Yeah, question, and then you

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added each of those counts up, Noel. Yes, I counted

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each tier. I don't know if I added them up,

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but usually when i'm counting, that's what I do. I

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write it down K tier with the number, EL tier,

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I put the number and I add them up. Question Okay, Noel,

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But if I miscounted, remember I counted by myself, So

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if I miscounted, I would have called control and I

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would have said seventy three. They would have been like, no,

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your account is wrong. Question. It's weird that your miscount

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just happened to show what the system said. That was

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what the system thought was in there. That's where I'm

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having difficulty because it's like, the system says seventy three.

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So if you miscounted seventy three and the system says

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seventy three, but there's only seventy two, how are you

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saying you actually counted, Noel, But they're at ten, it's

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seventy three on here, and it's seventy three on here.

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Question correct, because that's the institution counted off, Noel. So

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but I'm confused because at ten it says seventy three.

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Foy cuts in, but they're saying this is wrong, this

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paper is wrong. Redacted and it was caught at midnight. Noel. Okay,

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but this is well then I don't know. I don't know.

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Question do we want to continue this or keep going? Question? Oh?

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Keep going? Question? All right? So prior to six thirty

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three am on August tenth, twenty nineteen, when was the

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last time that you conducted around within the shoe? Now

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we're talking about around, Noel, I don't remember the time,

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but I didn't conduct no round between twelve and the

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twelve to eight shift. Question, So this what we're talking about,

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what you're calling account that you're saying, would then that

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the last time be that you conducted either around or

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account Noel? After ten question? When we're discussing at the

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ten would you have done something between then and twelve? Noel,

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I don't remember. This is the last that I remember

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with the count at ten question. So the last one

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that you recall is the one that we're discussing on

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the ten PM count Noel. Yes, question okay, so probably

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around ten would have been the last Noel, you can

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say that question. What time does the count slip show? Noel,

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the count slip shows ten on here it says ten

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thirty pm. Question ten thirty pm Noel. Uh huh question,

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do you no? No? No. That's the institutional count Noel.

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On the count slip, it says ten PM. It's always

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going to say that. Like even if, like on the

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count slip, if I counted at ten fifteen, it's still

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going to say ten because it's the ten o'clock count redacted.

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So this one, I just want you to try to

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kind of because this would have been if you actually

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conducted the count and you actually looked at the people,

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this would have been correct. And the last time you

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saw Epstein correct, Noel correct. Question, all right, So I

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just want you to consider that, with all that surrounding this,

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you've got the kind of in your mind, think, when's

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the last time that I saw Noel? Uh huh question?

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Is this the last time that you can remember seeing him? Noel? Yes,

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all right. So we're gonna wrap up right here, and

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in the next episode we're going to pick up where

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we left off. All the information that goes with this

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episode can be found in the description box.