Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the tovin Owell interview with
the OIJ Inspectors. The recorder is back on. It's currently
one forty six pm and this is Senior Special Agent redacted.
I'm just reminding you, miss Noel, you're under oath and
this is a voluntary interview. Thank you again for your cooperation.
So when we took a break, is there anything that
you wanted to add from the last thing we were
talking about the difference between the four, the ten, and
the twelve and the different numbers. Noel, on the plus one,
I don't know where the plus one came from. I
absolutely counted at ten. I don't know why is there
a plus one? And then when the number changed, like
there's something that's sometimes it's called like a ghost count.
I don't know. I don't remember if that's what happened.
So whereas control, we'll call you and say put as
a ghost count. So the inmate is not physically there,
but they know where the inmate is because they didn't
redo the count sheet. So that's the only thing I
can think of the ghost count question. I could think
it may be a ghost count for the plus one,
but if you're writing the numbers and it's supposed to be,
I mean, when you're she gets caught off. I'm talking
about for seventy three and then how it changed to
seventy two. Noel says, as far as the plus one,
I don't know about the plus one. I'm talking about
the seventy three. Question. When you do account that you
list on it, isn't it the physical inmates that are there? Noel? Yeah, question,
you can't ever say that you can't list somebody that
is not on there. Correct Noel, correct question right, So
you see, Noel, No, But what I'm saying, Okay, Like
like I said, I really don't remember. But let's say
if I counted seventy two and they said ghost count John,
and I put seventy three. As far as the plus one,
I don't know, and I put seventy three because they
know where the inmate is, and then after for the
next count they fix the roster because that's why it's
called a ghost count, because they didn't move to where
the person is supposed to be, and then they fix
it on the next one that could have been how
the count went down in seventy two, But as far
as the plus one, I don't know where the plus
one went question. All right, So who was in the
shoe at ten pm when you conduct this count? Noel,
me and redacted question just the two of you? Noel, Yeah.
Question he's sleeping, Noel. Yeah. Question. What conversation did you
have with anybody about the count? Noel, That's what I'm saying.
I don't recall. That's the only thing that could have happened.
But I don't recall. Question. But if they told you
to do that at ten pm, as you just noticed,
at twelve am the count, that's when they catch that
the counts are wrong. Noel. Right. Question, So if I
told you that he gets cut off by Noel, Well,
not at the time, at the twelve time, I'm saying,
like when it changed from I'm not looking at that time,
but when it changed from seventy two to the seventy
two at the time. Question right, So no inmate was
removed from the shoe after ten pm? Noel, No question.
There's only seventy two inmates in the shoe at ten pm, Noel,
I don't as far as the numbers go, I don't
remember accurately the numbers, but no inmates moved question right, Noel,
there was no movement. Question And that's just where we're
trying to get to this. If you're swearing up and down,
you know, under oath, I conducted this count, Noel, I
did question, but there's only seventy two people there at
twelve am. That's when the lieutenant catches, Hey, guys, there's
only seventy two people in there. You've got to redo
this count and give me a new count. Slip and
when did this happen? Foy Let me just say something here.
It says at at ten, I'm looking at the ten
that it was seventy three on the outside were redacted?
Question correct? Foy right. So the control and her slip
matches question right. So she calls in the number Foy right. Question.
So she's calling in because somewhere before ten pm an
inmate wasn't removed from the list Foy right. Question, although
they were not present in the shoe. So if they're
doing account, that's where it's supposed to say, that's the
actual number that's in here, Foy right. Question. And at
that point control would say, we have seventy three where's
the problem here? But she called in seventy three foy
right question or yeah instead of seventy two question. So
you're right, the master list is off, but so is
the count slip. The count slip is provided first question,
but they're not off right technically. At ten the master
list is that front page and this is asked by
the union rep. Question the master list is wrong. It
said seventy three redacted correct union Rep. So there may
be something you know that we don't question. Oh, we've
already talked to hundreds of people about this Union Rep.
I'm sure question. So that's where I mean, not hundreds,
but you know what I mean, Union Rep. A few people,
question a lot of people. So this is where we're
just asking the only person that was there that was
actually you know, the other guy was sleeping. There's only
one person physically present in there, and that was you,
miss Noel. Noel, yeah, question. So that's why we're asking you.
Everyone else clear as day says, well, it shows it's
just proof that that's how the count wasn't conducted. That's
what everybody else says, all the way up to the
highest levels. So That's why if you're saying that the
count was conducted, you're just saying, Noel, I did the
count question. You just counted wrong, Noel, I did do
the count question by the union. And I'm asking this
because I think if we're confused, miss noel Is might
be confused. Correct me if I'm wrong, Noel, Right, like,
because I didn't even she gets cut off by the
union rep if the employee. Let's use a simple number
for the sake of it, right, I'm an employee. I
count for living, breathing bodies on Unita, and then I
call you who is located eight floors downstairs? And I
say I have four bodies on Unita And you say
to me, that's a good count. Right. That's what these
documents imply took place, because the front page is prepared
by a completely different person in a completely different area
redacted exactly. So what these documents actually imply is that
the institution count show that there were seventy three people
in there. There were only seventy two people in there.
So what they imply is that the count wasn't conducted
because there were only seventy two people in there, and
it was just based on the number that should have
been based upon the system. The system showed there were
seventy three, so they wrote seventy three on the slip.
That's what the documentation implies. Union Rep. I get that question, However,
there were only seventy two people in there. Union Rep. Now,
I understand what you're saying. Question. So that's why I'm asking.
It's hard for me to get past his question if
you're saying, yes, I counted seventy three when there are
only seventy two bodies in there. Noel, no I absolutely
counted as far as the number, like I said, in
remembering how much bodies I counted, But I counted. Question,
So you counted, You just didn't You didn't maybe have
the numbers up Noel, right, or it was she's cut off.
And that's why I wanted to make sure the difference
between around and account. Noel, no I counted. Question, you counted,
but Noel. And the reason why that always stood out
to me because I remember he was on a triple
and he said he was tired, and I counted. Question,
So just give me a little more information on what
you're just saying. You know you counted, but what Noel,
no I'm saying, I know I absolutely counted, and that
always stood out to me because I remember he was
on a triple and he was tired. Question sure, Noel,
And I counted by myself, which I'm not supposed to do,
so I remember that. But as far as the numbers go,
I don't remember this because I didn't even remember something
about a plus one until I seen the count slip, Like,
I don't recall nothing about a plus one. Question right, Noel.
So as far as the numbers, I'm not sure. But
as far as counting, I absolutely counted. Question are you
sure you counted seventy three? Noel? That's what I'm saying.
As far as the numbers go, I don't remember, but
I counted. Question let's see you counted? What So I mean,
what did you do with the numbers that you counted? Noel?
What I'm saying is the count could have been off,
But I'm just letting you know that I actually did count.
As far as the actual numbers, that's where the discrepancy
comes in. Question, So did you count and then look
at the system what showed was in there and you
just decided to put what the system showed, Noel? Because
I don't know how to look for that question. You
don't even know how to find Noel cuts them off.
Look for the count in the system, no question. So
where would you if you're prepopulating things, where would you
get the numbers from? In order? Noel cuts them off.
When you come in, the person that you're leaving will
be like, I got seventy two or I got seventy five. Question,
So someone who you relieved would have told you that
there were seventy three? Noel? Correct question, all right? And
you know who would have told you that there was
seventy three? Noel, I don't know. Question. Would it have
been redacted before he fell asleep? Noel? I don't remember.
Question all right? So again, just help me try to
understand if there's only seventy two people in there, how
you wrote seven three? If you counted, Noel, Again, that's
what I'm saying, I could have miscounted. I don't remember
what happened as far as the actual number of the count.
I can only just tell you that I counted. As
far as numbers go, I don't remember. Question right. So
you counted each tier, Noel? Yeah, question, and then you
added each of those counts up, Noel. Yes, I counted
each tier. I don't know if I added them up,
but usually when i'm counting, that's what I do. I
write it down K tier with the number, EL tier,
I put the number and I add them up. Question Okay, Noel,
But if I miscounted, remember I counted by myself, So
if I miscounted, I would have called control and I
would have said seventy three. They would have been like, no,
your account is wrong. Question. It's weird that your miscount
just happened to show what the system said. That was
what the system thought was in there. That's where I'm
having difficulty because it's like, the system says seventy three.
So if you miscounted seventy three and the system says
seventy three, but there's only seventy two, how are you
saying you actually counted, Noel, But they're at ten, it's
seventy three on here, and it's seventy three on here.
Question correct, because that's the institution counted off, Noel. So
but I'm confused because at ten it says seventy three.
Foy cuts in, but they're saying this is wrong, this
paper is wrong. Redacted and it was caught at midnight. Noel. Okay,
but this is well then I don't know. I don't know.
Question do we want to continue this or keep going? Question? Oh?
Keep going? Question? All right? So prior to six thirty
three am on August tenth, twenty nineteen, when was the
last time that you conducted around within the shoe? Now
we're talking about around, Noel, I don't remember the time,
but I didn't conduct no round between twelve and the
twelve to eight shift. Question, So this what we're talking about,
what you're calling account that you're saying, would then that
the last time be that you conducted either around or
account Noel? After ten question? When we're discussing at the
ten would you have done something between then and twelve? Noel,
I don't remember. This is the last that I remember
with the count at ten question. So the last one
that you recall is the one that we're discussing on
the ten PM count Noel. Yes, question okay, so probably
around ten would have been the last Noel, you can
say that question. What time does the count slip show? Noel,
the count slip shows ten on here it says ten
thirty pm. Question ten thirty pm Noel. Uh huh question,
do you no? No? No. That's the institutional count Noel.
On the count slip, it says ten PM. It's always
going to say that. Like even if, like on the
count slip, if I counted at ten fifteen, it's still
going to say ten because it's the ten o'clock count redacted.
So this one, I just want you to try to
kind of because this would have been if you actually
conducted the count and you actually looked at the people,
this would have been correct. And the last time you
saw Epstein correct, Noel correct. Question, all right, So I
just want you to consider that, with all that surrounding this,
you've got the kind of in your mind, think, when's
the last time that I saw Noel? Uh huh question?
Is this the last time that you can remember seeing him? Noel? Yes,
all right. So we're gonna wrap up right here, and
in the next episode we're going to pick up where
we left off. All the information that goes with this
episode can be found in the description box.