WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.000 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:07.879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.240 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:17.679 we'll get you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. 6 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:34.479 Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, 7 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:39.039 welcome back to dot net Rocks episode number nineteen forty three. 8 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:42.560 I'm Carl Franklin at amergri Gabel. How you doing, Richard? 9 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.079 What's up? I'm all right. This is weird to be 10 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.920 in the twentieth century of shows, but you know, yeah, 11 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.560 and so much happened during these years. Yeah, so we'll 12 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.119 talk about that in a minute. But uh, how's the 13 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:57.320 weather up there in otter Town? Yea, we gotta break today, 14 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:01.359 little suddy. You know it's it's definitely springtime. So yeah, 15 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:02.679 here too, things are changing. 16 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.239 We had one snowfall, which is kind of normal for 17 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.120 the coast, and now it's things are warming. 18 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.719 Up here too, and it's kind of nice. Yeah. I 19 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:15.480 install the camera right outside the studio nice and brought 20 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:17.640 the big screen TV and from the living room, which 21 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.079 we don't really use anymore and sort of mounted it 22 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:22.239 right in back of where the camera is, so I 23 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.680 have like a digital window out on my outside. 24 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:27.840 But you can control the amount of light, and so 25 00:01:28.120 --> 00:01:30.879 you got control over your space till right, Yeah, exactly. 26 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:33.560 So it's fun. All right, it's good. Let's talk about 27 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:35.959 nineteen forty three before we do better. No framework going 28 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.200 to do that first, sure, all right, Well, from what 29 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:40.680 I know and what I read, nineteen forty three, the 30 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:43.480 tide of World War two began to turn against the 31 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:47.840 Axis powers, with significant events including the Soviet victory at 32 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.879 the Battle of Stalingrad, the Allied invasion of Sicily, and 33 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:56.640 the beginning of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. The word ghetto 34 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.480 comes from Poland. Not a lot of people know that 35 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:01.680 in America anyway. And what's crazy when you go to 36 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.480 Warsaw is the chunks of it that are still there. Yeah, 37 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.039 the Polish are taken very seriously the ownership of those buildings, 38 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.759 and well, it's entirely likely there's no one left alive 39 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:12.719 that owned some of those buildings. They just won't do 40 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:15.560 anything about it. Yeah, they're holding off on the chance 41 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.680 that they could find some relations to the point now 42 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.800 where they've built these protective screens up one floor over 43 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.319 the sidewalk because there's Yeah, it's the building falling off. 44 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.639 They don't want to hurt anybody. Wow, there's still billet 45 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:29.560 holes in buildings in Warsaw from that. At that time, 46 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:34.680 Zootsuit riots happened in Los Angeles. White servicemen and police 47 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.840 officers attacked Mexican American youth, which turned that into the 48 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:42.560 Zootsuit riots. The Harlem race Riot occurred in Harlem, New 49 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.680 York after a white police officer shot in African American soldier. 50 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:49.960 In the good News section of nineteen forty three, the 51 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:54.319 Pentagon is completed, the Chinese exclusion acts are repealed. Actually 52 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:56.800 is that good news? Does sound like it? I'm not 53 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:00.879 so sure. But also two things were invented in nineteen 54 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.479 forty three that we need to thank the people for 55 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.080 duct tape, nice and LSD. 56 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:13.800 It's funny also when the Colossus computer, which arguably is 57 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:20.639 the first electronic programmable computing device, of course, built Blenchley 58 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.840 Park for cryptanalysis. Wow, although that's also the same. Forty 59 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.240 three is a year where the contract for ANIAC starts, 60 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:28.960 but they won't get finished until forty five. 61 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.000 Yeah, and I don't know. 62 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:33.759 This is also forty three was the era of the 63 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:35.599 first generation of antibiotics. 64 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.159 That's right. 65 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:39.560 Yeah, yeah, so, and there's some funny stories around that, 66 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:45.919 like they found the perfect bacterium for growing penicillin on 67 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:47.599 a cantalope. 68 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.240 I thought it was on an orange randomly. There were 69 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.439 are versions there, but the thing they call the golden mold, 70 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.439 it was actually on a canalope in Illinois. That's so cool, 71 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.639 and that maybe they already knew how to make penicill 72 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:02.439 at that point. But it became the master mechanism destructimyas 73 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.280 and was developed in forty three. I think that it 74 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:07.400 was really released in forty four, wasn't it. 75 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.759 Yeah, but that's when it was first developed and it 76 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.360 was the first treatment for tuberculosis. 77 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.840 Wow, take a lot of that stuff for granted, now, 78 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.720 don't we We share doom to the point where people forget. Yeah, 79 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:20.959 we used to have friends that died. He stepped on 80 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:22.920 a nail. You were going to die? Yeah, and you 81 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.040 everybody had somebody who died in tuberculosis. Many people oculosis. 82 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:31.439 It was untreatable, tetanus too. Yeah. Okay, so let's get 83 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:42.399 to better know a framework, roll the music. Awesome, A man, 84 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.399 what you got? This one comes from our friend Damian Edwards. 85 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.160 You know him. He's overdue for a show, isn't name? 86 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:51.680 We should totally is. Yeah, we need a little signal, 87 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.079 our reminiscence and all that good stuff. So he wrote 88 00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:00.519 this tool. It's on GitHub called dot net purge. It's 89 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.360 a dot Net tool that runs dot net clean for 90 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:07.319 each target, framework and configuration and then deletes the output directories. Okay. 91 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.079 Can be run in a directory containing a solution or 92 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.759 project file because you know what disk space is low. No, 93 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.319 I'm kidding. I'm kidding, of course, Damien. That's not the point. 94 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:21.000 The point is you have all these dangling frameworks and 95 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.399 tools that you don't need anymore. Yeah, why confuse the issue? 96 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:28.319 Just clean them up, Just tidy stuff up. Yeah, so 97 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.560 that's cool. As you can see, it's a it's a 98 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:33.600 dot net tool. It's a command line thing. You can 99 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:37.160 add it to Windows Explore. There's a little registry hack 100 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:40.000 that you can add dot net purge to Explore a 101 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.879 context menu. Turn it into a shortcut. Yeah, very cool. 102 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.439 You know, at least it'll it'll it'll help with your 103 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.120 large lene you're programming large language model lature is not 104 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:52.000 navigating old files. Ooh, there you go. Yeah. And also 105 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:56.279 Simon Crop was a contributor to that. There's Damien and 106 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:58.879 Simon basically another guy you should probably be back on 107 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.560 the show. Yeah, so there you go. Clearly they both 108 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:04.279 had the problem and decided to fix it. Yeah. Maybe 109 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:06.720 it only happens in Australia, though I don't know. I 110 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.360 don't know the answer. Okay, he's talking to us today. 111 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:12.600 Richard grabbed a comment on a show eighteen eighty five, 112 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:14.519 the one we did with Martine back in February of 113 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.600 twenty four. We were talking about improving your CSS skills. Yeah, 114 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:22.680 and Vladimir Jirgov commented this about a year ago. Hees hi, guys, 115 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.639 long term listening to the show, writing in reference to 116 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:28.680 using chat GPT for creating CSS code. I found this 117 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.360 comment hilarious because it was a year ago when we 118 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:34.480 just didn't know. I've recently used the free version of 119 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.600 chat gpt for a small CSS h schmael and JavaScript project. Well, 120 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:40.560 I could say it's pretty good perspectives matter. 121 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.680 I'm an infrastructure engineer recently turned web developer, so my 122 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:48.319 appraisal of quote good CSS code is limited. Nevertheless, chat 123 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.360 GPD was able to produce clear, readable, almost eighty percent 124 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.399 accurate code. The other twenty percent I compensated by pointing 125 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:55.920 me to the right direction to fix it or just 126 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:57.160 it when I couldn't do it itself. 127 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.199 All this is good. It really blew me away a positively. 128 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.319 When I asked to refactor the code, it gave me 129 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:05.959 clear and concise, simplified Yeah, and ask it to comment 130 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:09.519 it as well, that's another trick. Yeah. Well, and again, 131 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.279 imagine this is a year ago, like so much has 132 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.240 happened in this space in a year. That's the problem 133 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.000 I find with chatchipt and things like CSS, because there's 134 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.759 so many posts like on stack overflow of people who 135 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.800 are posting bad CSS right and saying why is in 136 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:29.839 this work? And then their discussions and by the time 137 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.560 you get to the to the good one, you know, 138 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.480 to the solution, it might be three years old. And 139 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.800 so there's just a lot of confused CSS on the internet. 140 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:44.279 So I'm probably true for all code. But in general, 141 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.079 these tools have moved so quickly, and being aware that 142 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.360 we're coming up on a bills and there's some interesting 143 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:53.800 announcements coming, like you know, Microsoft's a tooling company first 144 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.040 and foremost, so expect amazing things in this space. 145 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.360 Yep, that's for sure, Vladimir, Thank you so much for 146 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.279 your comment, and a copy of music Cobey is on 147 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.040 its way to you. And if you'd like copy music Cobey, 148 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:04.639 I write a comment on the website at dot at 149 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.120 rocks dot com or on the facebooks. We publish every 150 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.160 show there and if I comment there or if you 151 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:10.800 comment there and I read it on the show, we'll 152 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:11.920 send you copy of music go bay. 153 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.600 And of course music to Code by born of a 154 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:19.240 conversation that we had on dot net rocks and it 155 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.839 turns out that music at a certain with certain attributes 156 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:27.279 really help you focus, and it's based on science. Was 157 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.639 that Dan North or was it Mark Semen? Mark Semen? 158 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.879 Was Mark Semen? Yeah? Yeah, So you know, we just 159 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.679 did track twenty two. So you can get that track 160 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.960 by itself, or you can get MP three flak or 161 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.120 wave collections. Go to music to Code by dot net. Okay, awesome, 162 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:49.279 Let's bring back Martine Dowdin, an award winning CTO ux 163 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:54.639 UI designer and developer, International speaker and author. Martin focuses 164 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:59.360 on web interfaces. That are beautiful, functional, accessible, and usable. 165 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.000 She approaches user experience from both art and science, drawing 166 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.879 from her degrees in psychology and visual communications. Martin has 167 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.159 worked as a developer, artist, educator, and consultants since two 168 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:15.000 thousand and five. Currently, she's the CTO at Andromeda Galactic 169 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.879 Solutions good name where she that's a great name as 170 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:25.879 opposed to like Minutia Incorporated right where she continues to 171 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.559 learn work on. Sorry, I didn't mean to make you laugh, 172 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.320 continues to learn work on and share her passion for 173 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:34.480 front end development. Welcome back, Martin. 174 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:36.159 Well glad to be back. Thank you for having me. 175 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:36.679 Sure. 176 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.320 Yeah, it's great to have you back, and I'm happy 177 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.559 to not be talking about CSS this time around. Not 178 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.639 that your conversation CSS aren't brilliant. Yeah, but admittedly I 179 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.360 think I pinged you saying it's been about a year 180 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:51.600 and I had been poking through your sessionized and saw 181 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:55.039 you doing a talk on promises and I'm like, you know, 182 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.519 those things have driven me crazy since they were first 183 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:00.440 talked about in the W three C. 184 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:02.799 I should talk to Martina. 185 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:04.519 It's like, as soon as I get that urge, like 186 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:05.879 I want to call you and talk about it we 187 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:07.360 should probably make a show. 188 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:12.919 So, Martine, what is on your mind these days? 189 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:17.600 Well, the I've been writing blog posts and one of 190 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.559 them that you mentioned was about promises and also made 191 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.240 it as a talk, and so I realized when I 192 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.200 was I was, I've been working with some junior devs 193 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:31.159 and some dot devs recently, and uh, we were arguing about, 194 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:33.759 you know, better ways to write code and how something 195 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.759 should be architected, because you know, de've never disagree on 196 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.519 such things. 197 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.480 Never, never, never, never. 198 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.000 And I realized that one one of the one of 199 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:48.039 the guys I was talking to, didn't actually understand what 200 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.200 promises did or how they worked. And so that's kind 201 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.519 of what prompted me to write that article because as 202 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.320 I did some digging, I realized that not only do 203 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.200 it's not as common knowledge as I originally thought it 204 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:04.399 was on how they work, but also that there's so 205 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:07.440 much with them that can be done that like, sure 206 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.879 people can remember how to do a dot then or 207 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.399 dot catch or maybe even in a sink away, but 208 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:14.320 there's so much more to them than those three things, 209 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.480 which is kind of what a lot of people think 210 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:18.559 of when they think promises, Right, you get your fetch 211 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:20.919 you get your then and go on and go forth 212 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:22.919 and conquer. But there's a lot more to it that 213 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.000 you can do in terms of parallelization or how you 214 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.039 want things to happen, or if you want, you know, 215 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:30.320 just give me the first response or things like that. 216 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.919 And so that's kind of what prompted me to write it. 217 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.639 And just to back up, we're talking about JavaScript here, 218 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.360 yes we are. You know, we didn't really introduce the 219 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.679 topic unless you read the title of the show, but 220 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.399 so we're talking JavaScript promises, and you know this is 221 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:47.240 the way to do one way to do things asynchronously. 222 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:50.759 Right you mentioned a sink a weight, which we do 223 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.120 and c sharp all the time, but turned into JavaScript as. 224 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.919 Well, yep, which is it's kind of cool. I just 225 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.559 I mean, the thing with them is the I found 226 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:02.639 that the ear handling becomes a little different if you're 227 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:04.840 doing the a a sek away where you have to 228 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.799 wrap the trycatch and so on, and then depending if 229 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:09.759 you want to where you want to catch your things 230 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.519 and how ends up being a little bit different. But oh, 231 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.240 in all, I find they I personally like it because 232 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.360 I find it more readable to just be able to go, 233 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.799 you know, especially if you have multiple private promises you're 234 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:22.360 doing in sequence to just be able to do a 235 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.720 weight one A wait two, a wait three, And it's 236 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.519 really instead of having to do the whole that then 237 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:29.679 that then that then that then I find it less worthy, 238 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.120 but it's a personal preference really. 239 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.600 So the whole dot then that that is that the 240 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.679 promise syntax like fluent. Is that how it works. 241 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:41.799 Yeah, So in JavaScript, fetch is a promise. I'm just 242 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.320 going to use that as the example because it's the 243 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.080 same one I have in the in the article. But 244 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.159 you would do like fetch whatever the U R L, right, 245 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:51.639 and then you would do after that you do dot 246 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:53.840 then and then you're going to get the results and 247 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:55.799 that that's that's going to be a function. So you 248 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:58.039 get your result and you can do whatever you want 249 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:00.000 with that result at that point, right, And you can 250 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.799 chain those dot dens, so if you get what you 251 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.960 sometimes see is like where it starts, people try to 252 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.440 nest the dot dens instead of chaining them, so you 253 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.559 get kind of that that Christmas tree pattern like that, 254 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.840 but you can just know and the fun thing with 255 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.120 that then and it doesn't actually require you to return 256 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.279 a promise. You can put promise one that then promise 257 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.840 you know, take my results and then put it in 258 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.639 for promise too and so on. But you can very easily, 259 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.759 very easily just do some kind of transformation on the 260 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.159 data and return that site. Once you're in that that 261 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.720 then sequence. It does not have to be a promise. 262 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.600 You can do then whatever you want to after that. 263 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.960 At that point it kind of sounds like a task 264 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:47.360 and see sharp the concept anyway, where you know, when 265 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.519 you have a promise, what do you do with it? Right? 266 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:52.720 That's yeah. 267 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:57.240 For JavaScript, the most common use would be for like 268 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.480 fetching data, like whether whether it's whether you're doing using 269 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:04.919 a framework or something or you're just doing raw JavaScript. 270 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:08.279 Most of the time it's because you're fetching data that's 271 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:10.440 ninety nine percent of the timeline, it's going to be 272 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:11.000 four and. 273 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:12.440 You're trying not to hang the UI. 274 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.240 Why you do it right that I send off the 275 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:16.679 fetch you can. 276 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:21.240 It doesn't matter that more depends on how you're calling 277 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:25.240 the function more than more and where more than the 278 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.159 fact that it's a promise. The other one would be 279 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.279 to turn that I use it a lot for is 280 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.960 to turn callbacks into a promise because they're easier to 281 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.519 chain and handle and deal with. I find so like 282 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.399 when you're doing an image upload or a file upload 283 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.559 and you want to do a preview for it, there's 284 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.200 the whole file reader thing, and that's always a that's 285 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.840 one of the common ones, or even the set time 286 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.960 out technically speaking, you know, is callback. So like those 287 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.519 sorts of things so that I can chain them easily 288 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.559 with other things. I'll tend to turn them into promises 289 00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:59.320 because it makes my life a whole lot easier than 290 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:01.960 living in and trying to figure out which callback is 291 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.399 doing what and going where. And I find them gross personally, 292 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.240 But just. 293 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.120 A just a for full disclosure, It's been a long 294 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.879 time since I've looked at that kind of complexity in JavaScript. 295 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.120 I mean, ever since I found Blazer, I've been as 296 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.240 much c Sharp as possible and as little JavaScript as possible, 297 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:24.279 And usually the JavaScript that I'm calling is just something 298 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.440 to get something from the dom that I can't get 299 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:28.080 with sea Sharp. 300 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:32.759 Yeah, dumb manipulation doesn't have too much in terms of 301 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.840 callbacks or anything else. They have a couple, I guess, 302 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:37.799 especially when you're getting to events like. 303 00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:40.879 Yeah, window do resize all that stuff. 304 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.360 Or even what a fun one. That's always a h 305 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:47.200 Be careful how you type that in your Google searches 306 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:51.960 everything related to drag and drop because dom drag events 307 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.240 can can make some fun fun Oh yeah, fun search 308 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.480 results if you're not careful. 309 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:04.799 Oh boy, yep, Tom drag pictures of Dom Delawi's. So 310 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.039 does the fetch approach have an advantage when you want 311 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.720 to call off like multiple data sets you want to 312 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:11.480 fetch and you don't really care what order they come 313 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.360 back in you're populating different divs kind of thing. Yes, 314 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.840 if that word shines. 315 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:20.679 So fetch literally just goes and gets the data. So 316 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.399 if you wanted to call multiples, what you might do 317 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.759 is do it in a You could do a promise 318 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.279 that all which you would put a series of fetches 319 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.879 in it, and it would only return the data once 320 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.039 all of them have returned. 321 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:34.639 That's convenient. 322 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.840 So if you had to get if you needed all 323 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.159 three sets of data in order to populate or do 324 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.840 whatever you were going to do, that wouldn't return until 325 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.159 all of them have returned. Now, the downside is if 326 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.879 one of it fails, it fails everything. So that can 327 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:51.279 be good or bad, right, It depends on your use case, 328 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:51.919 but it. 329 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:53.879 Is nice if you do need three sets and you 330 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.840 don't want to wait for each one to come back, 331 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:57.960 to do it that way and they run in parallel 332 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.200 and once they're all back, then you act. If you 333 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.879 got three different sets that just render in three different 334 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.799 dips and you don't care whatever that comes in, can 335 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:05.519 you still use it? 336 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:10.400 Then you would probably do three. You would do either 337 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.119 three functions or three fetches, and then in the response 338 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:15.440 from the that fetch. But what I wouldn't do is 339 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.119 try to go a sink a wait for a second 340 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.559 and third because then you're literally waiting for a second 341 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.839 and third. Right, So at that point I would probably 342 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.799 do either separated into three functions that I would call 343 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.200 and not wait on right, or if I wanted everything 344 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.839 in the same function, I would do, uh, fetch a dot, 345 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.319 then do whatever I'm gonna do, fetch b dot, then 346 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:36.759 do what I'm going to do and do it as 347 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.759 a dot. Then structure, because then they're not waiting on 348 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.359 each other because JavaScript is going to fire the first one, 349 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.039 the second one, the third one because it has the dot. 350 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.519 Then it's not waiting for that to be finished. It's 351 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:49.400 just going to fire and go and move on to 352 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.599 the next but it will wait. Where it will wait 353 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.279 is to do what's in that dot then then I'll 354 00:17:57.319 --> 00:17:59.119 wait for that data to come in. So if I 355 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.599 wanted them in peril, well, i'd probably use and in 356 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:04.160 the same function, I'd use dot then and definitely not 357 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.640 a sync away because then you're forcing for the way. 358 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.680 How is one doesn't help that there's multiple JavaScript async 359 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.319 methods like call there's callbacks, there's promises, there's a sync away. 360 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.680 Is that all of them? 361 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:19.680 Well, if you get into some of the frameworks like 362 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:23.200 our XGS, and you have the entire observable game as well. 363 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.359 React right, yeah, yeah, then is what the other frames 364 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.160 will provide you on top of everything else. 365 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.640 And then there's a handful of listeners too, which I 366 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.839 think are just callbacks if I remember, well. 367 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:36.559 How does one do a resilient strategy like we do 368 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:40.880 with poly in c sharp, Like you know, if if 369 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.400 a service is down and you call it, how can 370 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.720 you do like easing, you know, back off multiple retries 371 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.319 that kind of thing. Is there such a thing like 372 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:52.960 that built into JavaScript? 373 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.839 So our XGS does have a if you're dealing with observables, 374 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.359 does have a retry function. But you can fairly easily 375 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.720 do or retribe, because what you're gonna you're gonna utilize 376 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:06.839 your catch for that, right, So we're either going to 377 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.559 do in a trycatch block or as a dot catch 378 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:11.920 you're gonna say, you're going to have a variable outside 379 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.359 of that how many times have I retried? And then 380 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.039 you can call itself again and increment your retry. 381 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:17.640 Right. 382 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.880 The other thing you can do in your catch is say, okay, 383 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:24.559 this one's down, give me a different one. There's promise 384 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.960 not all settled that you can use. So if you 385 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.200 have like say, three three different APIs that you want 386 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.720 to hit, but you know that one of them is 387 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.720 likely to fail. But if you can get the data, great, 388 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:39.759 If not, we'll move on, it's okay, situation. Or if 389 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:42.039 you want to handle depending on let's say you've got 390 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.039 your three calls, but you want to handle your failures 391 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.720 a little bit differently, you can do and all settled. 392 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.519 So what happens with the all settled is like, let's 393 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.279 say one of your three of them dies in the middle, right, 394 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.559 Unlike the promise at all, which goes ahead and and 395 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.279 will throw an error if any of them fail. What 396 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.440 they all settled does is it will return for all 397 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:06.240 three a status of either okay or there's been an error, 398 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.519 and then if there's an error reason so you can 399 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:10.799 get you can still get your data for say like 400 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.359 one in two and then you'll get your error for three. 401 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:15.799