WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh g is folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say good money to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:12.160 go out to a theater. 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.160 They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:17.199 the protection booth. 6 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:21.160 Sun it off. 8 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:21.519 One Jackson for MBB News. 9 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.000 Sinai Desert, What are you doing here? 10 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:39.280 Blasco Whoha. 11 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:45.599 Le all above the bar Onetivo pullo. That is cool, 12 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:52.519 sir by Jaya Rosa Vanjira Rosa b Jay Rossa to 13 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.280 your failure when Jay Rossa to your pa. 14 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:00.799 And television. 15 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:03.239 Don't take the life so serious. 16 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:08.400 Huh. Yes, the mod is very funny. 17 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.919 Peace, life is very beautiful. 18 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:51.919 Is welcome to the projection booth. 19 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:52.439 I'm your host. 20 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:55.159 Mike White joined me once again. Is mister yi Adelstein. 21 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:57.479 Hello, Hello, Hello. 22 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:02.199 Also joining us as professor will humans Hello there. On 23 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:04.800 this special episode, we are looking at the nineteen eighty 24 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:11.000 six film from writer director Raffi Bouque Avanti Popolo. Set 25 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.159 at the end of the Six Day War, the film 26 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.039 tells the tale of a handful of Egyptian soldiers as 27 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.840 they travel through the Sinai Desert on their way to 28 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:21.840 the Suez Canal along the way they are thrown into 29 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:25.759 some very precarious situations. We will be spoiling the film 30 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:27.439 as we go along, So if you do want anything Ruin, 31 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.719 please turn off the podcast and come back after you 32 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:31.080 have seen it. 33 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:31.960 It is out there. 34 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:34.560 Not the easiest film in the world to see, but 35 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.960 I guarantee you can find it. Yeah, Niv, this was 36 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.639 a suggestion from you, and I am wondering when did 37 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:42.800 you first see this film and why did you want 38 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:43.800 to talk about it today? 39 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:46.840 That came out when I was still a kid, so 40 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:48.560 I can't say that I was too young to watch 41 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.560 it in real time. You know the story. I came 42 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.840 on this podcast first to talk about some really awful films, 43 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.400 and I'm on a quest of redemption to let people 44 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.759 know about a few actually good films that they can watch, 45 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.879 and this is one of them. Of Antipopolal came out 46 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:09.680 nineteen eighty six, when I was eight and Israel barely 47 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:15.680 had a cinema industry, and to everybody's surprise, became a 48 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:20.040 sort of an art house success and for many years 49 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.680 was remembered as the one good Israeli film. In the 50 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:29.759 nineteen eighties, Israel was basically making unwatchable films, and this 51 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.759 movie was surprised because it was made by a film 52 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:38.800 student like an unknown guy as his student film and 53 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:44.600 later was turned into a feature length film. I'm happy 54 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.720 I got both of you guys to watch it. Will 55 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:49.879 Have you seen it before? Did you watch it now? 56 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.879 This was the first I've seen it, and I never 57 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.360 heard of it as a film. It was in a 58 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:00.639 way riveting. It just had this mix of the farctcle 59 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.920 and the realists and all that in the genre of 60 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.120 the road sort of film where people are lost, and 61 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.560 I had some of the cliches, but was just utterly 62 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.720 original in so many ways. So it was really fascinating 63 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.240 watch if on. The pacing and everything just great, and 64 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:23.879 the characters, even the characters who have minimal dialogue, that 65 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:28.560 you still felt for. So it really worked as a 66 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:29.279 film for me. 67 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.360 Yeah, it did for me as well. And I like 68 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.480 what you said about the road movie aspect to it. 69 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:37.879 It does have that feel to it. Characters drop off, 70 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.120 new characters come in. We get to meet all of 71 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.959 these different people from different prospects of their lives, and 72 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.839 there's always that question of who am I meeting? Is 73 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:50.319 it going to be an enemy or Is it going 74 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:51.600 to be a friend or is it going to be 75 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:53.720 an enemy that I can turn into a friend as 76 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:55.959 we see in one part? Or is it just going 77 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.600 to be an obnoxious television crew? What's it going to be? 78 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:02.920 So there's a lot of levels to this film. There's 79 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.639 that it is coming out in nineteen eighty six, and 80 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:08.199 if you're talking about the way that the Israeli film 81 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.519 industry is in nineteen eighty six, But then it's also 82 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:14.839 looking back at nineteen sixty eight when the Six Day 83 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.879 War happened. Sixty seven it's okay, so looking back at 84 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:22.600 sixty seven with that present gaze from eighty six, and 85 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:24.720 of course now we're talking about it in twenty twenty four. 86 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:27.639 I don't know that much about the Six Day War. 87 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:32.000 It was a conflict between Israel and Egypt, but why 88 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.399 and obviously it was a quick one. 89 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:37.560 No how mash Officially the movie takes place in the 90 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.480 Korean War, but for all intents and purposes, it's Vietnam. 91 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:45.560 It's not really about the sixty seven war. Apparently, Offie 92 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.639 Boukery had some memories personal experiences from the Lebanon War 93 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.199 in eighty two, just four years before, and spilled all 94 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:58.680 of his thoughts and things into the script when he 95 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:03.240 went to film school, I guess after And it's such 96 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:06.279 a huge, deep topic that I'd really rather not get 97 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:11.040 into it. That's when the occupation starts sixty seven, et cetera. 98 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.839 So it's a huge, great, big issue. But I do 99 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.600 want to bring it up in a different aspect, not 100 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.519 of the war itself, but the fact that how should 101 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.319 I put this? Okay? Is everything else with Israel Palestine 102 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.000 is okay? Do I go back to sixty seven or 103 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:27.959 go back to forty eight? 104 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.079 Blah blah blah. But let me say this. 105 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:33.480 The reason that I wanted to do this, besides the 106 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:35.959 fact it was a good film that a few people remember, 107 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.680 it's just I came upon an interesting article by this 108 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:46.279 professor called Anton Shamas talking about the wider sort of 109 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.560 topic of the portrayal of Arabs and Israeli films, which 110 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:55.759 is focusing on anti popular of the film, and I 111 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.879 might actually translate it properly, and now I sent you 112 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:03.959 Google translaate link translate the relevant fortunate properly. Because this 113 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.199 is a film about Egyptians that all the main characters 114 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:11.519 are Egyptian show soldiers being played by Palestinians by Israeli Palestinians. 115 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:16.519 And a very interesting aspect of all this that's lost 116 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.839 on my ears and on many people's ears, is the 117 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.399 fact that they don't make any effort to sound Egyptian. 118 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:25.920 They just talk like Palestinians. They speak in Arabic Palestinian 119 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.639 and to Arab ears while listening watching this film, they 120 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:35.279 know it right away. It's because it's a neighboring dialect, 121 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.919 but it's a different dialect. And that's one of the 122 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.679 interesting things is that it's like a backdoor way to 123 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.879 let actual Palestinians have center Stagian an Israeli film by 124 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.320 not having them be Palestinian. Also all these other things, 125 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:55.559 they're Palestinians playing Egyptians. The Salem Dao character ends up 126 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.960 being known as the Jew when he says, I'm being 127 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.320 called the Jew. I don't want to be a Jew. 128 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:05.799 I want to die here as a Jew. And they 129 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:09.679 have encounters with Israelis. They have encounters with a un guy, 130 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:14.320 except he's dead, but that's an encounter still. As you said, 131 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:18.679 they haven't encounters with a foreign TV crew. In terms 132 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.120 of yeah, it's less about a particular war and more 133 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:23.399 because I think you guys will agree with me. It's 134 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.960 like a humanistic film. It's a slightly surreal film. It's 135 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.399 not all out surrealistic, but it's just like a series 136 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.639 of weird encounters that happen that it's a little bit surreal. 137 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.960 Its powers in how universal, and it ends up being 138 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:38.720 specific in the service of the universal. 139 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:42.320 Yeah, definitely plays with the universal, but I think ultimately 140 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:45.440 it's not going to lay all the chips on the 141 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:51.240 universalist sort of bed, because it ends up. The way 142 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:55.919 the film actually had develops is that it's fairly pessimistic 143 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.600 in the prospects of universalism, even going from the scene 144 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.679 where they're marching to the song of anti Popolo, the 145 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:07.759 leftist anthem of the Italian labor movement, and that was 146 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.759 the moment where you thought, oh, these soldiers, people who 147 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.679 don't want to be in this war basically are coming together. 148 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:19.279 There was some water shared, there's some bonding, there's some jokes. 149 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.200 There's obviously the key moment with the Merchant of Venice 150 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:25.080 line and you think, oh, they're coming together. There's some 151 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.120 sort of basis for universalism her and then the next 152 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.200 morning the Israeli soldiers sneak away because these Egyptian soldiers 153 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:36.080 are actually a burden for them to care for. It 154 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.159 does give a nod back to universalism when the Israeli 155 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.879 soldiers meet their fate going into a minefield, whereas if 156 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.360 they would have kept the Egyptian soldiers with them, they 157 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.799 could have avoided that fate. The soldiers get killed because 158 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:55.200 of the minefield. But I wanted to go back to 159 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.480 the accent thing, which to me it was really interesting. 160 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.039 I'm not fluent in Arabic, but I know enough Arabic 161 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:04.120 to know when I hear an Egyptian accent versus a 162 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:08.440 Palestinian accent, like the j sound, an Egyptian is more 163 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.559 like a hard get, so you immediately can recognize that 164 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.200 it's not an Egyptian accent. But I had a friend 165 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:18.679 of mine watch it who's a Pelsian's origin, and we 166 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.240 got into a debate as to whether this was an 167 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:26.200 intentional act by the director, because certainly any serious Palestinian 168 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.240 actor would know how to at least fake an Egyptian accent, 169 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.480 just from like access to Egyptian movies, which were very 170 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.799 common at the time. So I felt like there was 171 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:38.519 a symbolic importance to this, and I think that. Yeah, 172 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:42.600 I think I agree with Anton Schamas's take that this 173 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.799 was a way to launder a Palestinian presence into the 174 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:49.720 film through the camouflage disguise of egyptianists, because there was 175 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:53.039 also seven years after Camp David, Right, so Egyptis are 176 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:57.279 officially at peace. There's like tourism between the countries or 177 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.240 the opening of relations. So it did seem like a 178 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:04.279 way of sneaking it in. But my friend had no, 179 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.759 there's no way that it's intended. It was just like 180 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:12.399 a production simplicity that these that's how the actors they 181 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.879 had spoke, So we had even the people who could 182 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:18.519 recognize that there was a difference in the accent read 183 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.559 it very differently. But I saw every scene is having 184 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:22.600 political metaphor. 185 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:25.240 By the way, I'll let you know something I don't 186 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.799 know that when I was growing up, there was an 187 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.720 Egyptian film every Friday evening on Israeli TV. 188 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:33.480 There's one TV channel. 189 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:37.279 There's a few hours of programming in Arabic every evening 190 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.519 and every Friday an Egyptian film. Somebody told me once, 191 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:44.240 a friend who was Mexican said that they were just 192 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:47.879 like Mexican films. Egypt has a huge movie industry, and 193 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.879 I think in the eighties it was like the third 194 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.840 the biggest in the world after Hollywood and Bollywood. Very popular, 195 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.360 huge singer, lots of famous film stars, and those Egyptian 196 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:00.399 films were super popular in Israel TV. A lot of 197 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.840 people in Israel Arab, Arabic speakers, Arabs and Jews. It 198 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:06.879 was very popular. 199 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.000 Yes, Egyptian of cinema runs the gammy. There's a lot 200 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.919 of like slapstick comedy, but there's also very serious, almost 201 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.360 classic cinematic films. I'm thinking of like the director of 202 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:25.600 use of Shaheen for example. But yeah, there's a lot 203 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:29.600 of silly nos and Egyptians, but I think that would 204 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:33.799 not capture there's a serious literary tradition to my foods 205 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.440 for example comes to mind, and a lot of books 206 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:41.440 are made into films, also international films too, like Midak 207 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.919 midak Ali. I thinks this made into movie with Selma Hayek. 208 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.639 But that's an interesting cross cultural exposure. And so my 209 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:52.799 question for you and the it would be like how 210 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:57.200 much do you read like this is like cultural differences 211 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.519 that play out between the two groups of soldiers r actually 212 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:04.320 versus like a politics of it because each of the 213 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:08.399 three Israeli soldiers are very different in their dispositions. Danny 214 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:14.360 comes off as more curious about this other and relates 215 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.519 to them more pop Pousner is obviously antagonistic. He starts 216 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.559 off by shooting at them from the distance for his entertainment. 217 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.600 It's just hard to watch, and like some of those 218 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.200 clips I'm seeing of Israeli soldiers now and God's like 219 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.480 shooting at anything that moves. But then there's the third 220 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:34.399 guy who gets mocked for having the Romanian accent, heirsh 221 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:41.399 who Kladid tries to bond with over them both being actors, 222 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.159 and then so it tries to entertain him, but then 223 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.320 he takes it as an insult and puts his gun 224 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.519 in Kadid's face and basically rejects the attempt at bonding 225 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.399 and that maybe felt like he was being humiliated by Fadid, 226 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.559 and so like, to what extent do you see these 227 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:02.320 as like petical metaphor versus just like cultural clash or 228 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.000 cultural distance playing out? 229 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.840 First of all, I don't see the Israeli characters as 230 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.200 significantly Israeli characters, like the characters for you to identify 231 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.960 with the two main characters, the two protagonists, and that's 232 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.960 in a way, that's the central subversive thing that he does. 233 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:29.440 He wants to make an Israeli audience identify with Arab protagonists. 234 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.279 That's revolutionary. As an American, I was like, how many 235 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:38.080 movies have I ever seen where there's Arab soldiers are 236 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:41.519 the protagonists. I couldn't even think of one. And this 237 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:46.279 is the context of like Rambo Delta Force. I mean, 238 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.039 the terrorist genres in the US is at its height, 239 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.279 so I see there's also subversive in the American context. 240 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.000 Look, it's just an outsider movie. 241 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:54.240 Again. 242 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.840 It's a movie made for no money by a film student. 243 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:02.799 Everybody was acting pro ball and it was supposed to 244 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:06.200 be a student film. And then Selim Daho I read 245 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:08.720 an interview with him just saying how he got the script, 246 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.519 and he said, there's something great here, I'll do it, 247 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.039 you know what I mean. A lot of people gave 248 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.879 of their time and everything. It's all filmed in sand 249 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:20.600 dunes all around Israel, again for no money, and it's 250 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.639 the kind of outlook that could only have happened from 251 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.559 an outsider voice. As it turns out, Offi Bouquet he 252 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.519 died super young, he made this film in one other film. 253 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:32.240 Which I don't know. 254 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.120 I've found it pretty unwatchable and never found an audience. 255 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:37.639 He died of cancer in two thousand and three. 256 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.120 It would have been cool to talk to him. 257 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:44.240 Today and ask him a bit about how he came 258 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.159 up with this concept of this slightly surreal. 259 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.679 Yeah, and is it a true story? Because at the 260 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:54.960 end there's this text card that's so detailed, so specific 261 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.080 that I was like, wait, hold on a second, is 262 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:58.320 this ripped from my headline? 263 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.000 I don't know about the titles at the end. They 264 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.000 make no sense to me. My gut feeling is that 265 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:07.559 the producer insisted that they attack it on That's my 266 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.480 gut feeling. You don't have those titles if it's not 267 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.680 based on a real story, But somehow they decided to 268 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:13.960 do it. 269 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.640 Yeah, I'm stumped by that one. 270 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.440 What's interesting that the movie has a Italian name. So 271 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:24.160 when you sent me of Anti Popolo, I was like, 272 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.440 what I thought you said this was an Israeli film, Like, 273 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.000 what is it called a anti Popolo for? This is 274 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:36.559 absolutely bizarre named after, like you said, a Italian labor song. Okay, 275 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.440 the opening, because there's an opening title card as well, 276 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.880 if memory serves, that's in English, and then the end 277 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.440 title card is in English. And then for me, as 278 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.839 a native English speaker, anytime they say anything in English, 279 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.039 it just rings a bell for me. And I like 280 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:57.079 the English becomes their universal language at one point, because 281 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.920 we talked about the language barrier, and it's especially with 282 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.400 that minefield, where had they been able to read the language, 283 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.079 it would have been okay. And just the communication that 284 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.559 happens throughout this entire film, so much of it is 285 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.359 I don't understand what you're saying. Can we try to 286 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.759 come to some sort of understanding. When they speak English? 287 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:20.039 I will say probably eighty ninety percent of the English 288 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.119 that they speak is quoting Shakespeare as opposed to having 289 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.680 a conversation. They still go back and forth in their 290 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.240 own languages when they're trying to converse with each other. 291 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.240 So I find all of this stuff fascinating, and especially 292 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.880 you think about there is a native English speaker, an 293 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.440 actual person from England who comes in and then he 294 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.960 doesn't understand what his translator is saying, and the translators 295 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.000 fighting with the other guy, and the translators super angry, 296 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.400 but will not show that face to the English person, 297 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.519 which I was just like, wow, there's so many things 298 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:52.119 happening with this. 299 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:54.039 I think that's one of the things uniting all the 300 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:55.759 characters is hating the English guy. 301 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.680 And from what I heard. 302 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.240 It was a big laugh and applause sort of thing 303 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.759 when they find out that he vomited on him. Everybody's 304 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.279 very happy about that. And the British, especially in the 305 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:12.480 region or basically all over the world. 306 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:13.119 Shirt. 307 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:19.680 Yes, everyone hates the media equally. Yeah, and his T 308 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.880 shirt was like great, it's a great brom Like this 309 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:27.160 is a little on the nose, I know, but he 310 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:29.319 had the way he came in with a story that 311 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.319 he wanted to tell about the war and looking for 312 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.519 the visuals, Like it was just so clearly a sort 313 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:37.480 of media critique. But I read the translator as also 314 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.519 a government minder as well, because he was wearing fatigues. 315 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.200 Yeah, they were all ideas to Yeah, people like. 316 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.640 The media liais and sort of person and trying to 317 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.079 provide the media with the image that they need, even 318 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:55.160 going so far as to like connect to Egyptian soldiers 319 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.279 or trying to at least get their visuals. The fact 320 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.559 that there was a U when the officer who was 321 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.839 killed and was Swedish. I was trying to understand that 322 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.599 was there a UN peacekeeping force made up with the 323 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.759 Swedish contingent and the Sinai during the war. 324 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.200 I mean, in all the conflicts, there's always a UN 325 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:19.119 force and they're always from all sorts of European countries. 326 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.759 And as you read it the titles at the beginning, 327 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.680 it's like a UN imposed ceasefire. It's going to show 328 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.200 you how much it changed in sixty years that people 329 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:35.160 gave a shit about the UN and I tried to 330 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.200 abide by some kind of international law. 331 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.599 The UN owes to so much money. We're going to 332 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.079 get out of the UN. They have to pay themselves. 333 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:45.279 Oh god, yeah, that used to be a big thing. 334 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.720 We should say that. 335 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.720 We're recording this minutes after Biden pulled out of the race, 336 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.119 So the possibility. 337 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:58.720 Of big yeah, four more orange years and his last 338 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.079 big press conference us all about the UN and supporting 339 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:03.279 the UN, which is funny. 340 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.599 Yeah, there was also that league that he wasn't going 341 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:08.640 to do it until afternight and yow who came to 342 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.400 speak at Congress this week. I don't know if that 343 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.480 was the true league or that wasn't genuine or at 344 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.240 all that. Who knows the backstory there speak. Yeah, so 345 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.279 speaking of backstories, we don't know much about the backstory 346 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.920 of making other than this was a student film and 347 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.519 any of you speculated it was personalized with the story 348 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.680 of the Lebanon invasion. 349 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:34.519 We'll have more background. 350 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.279 When I talked to Zola, the editor, who, of course 351 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:40.079 it was brought in to be the second editor after 352 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.839 somebody did that first draft that the director wasn't happy with. 353 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:47.519 He had a personal relationship with the director, and I 354 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.480 think he can have a lot of insight about Who're 355 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.079 going to have a talk with him pretty soon and 356 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:55.640 pick his brain about all that stuff. 357 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.200 Yeah, I'm always curious, especially when it comes to it 358 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.920 sounds like this was a student film first and then 359 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.839 a feature film. How long was this student film? 360 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.440 No, it wasn't finished as a student film. You went 361 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.880 out on a shoot as a student film and sat 362 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.279 for a year editing it, and finally they just went 363 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:21.039 and did some additional scenes. There's no shorter version that 364 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.000 ever came out. But as a feature film, it's a good, 365 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:25.720 like eighty six minute film. 366 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.640 Then just the level of acting that they have in here, 367 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:31.480 I would say that if anything betrays it was a 368 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.160 student film at all. It's probably the soundtrack, which just 369 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.640 sounds a little cheap to me. It might have just 370 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:40.960 been because of the time, because I'm sure if I 371 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.440 go back and I listened to action films, especially in 372 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.799 the nineteen sixties, the music always sounds a little cheesy. 373 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:51.319 But this or a oh first score, I was like, ah, 374 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:53.440 this kind of reminds me of like when you're a 375 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.400 young filmmaker and here's a guy who's I can do 376 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:58.920 the music for you, and it just sounded a little teeny. 377 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:00.640 I'm not trying to put the guy down or anything, 378 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:02.680 but I was just like, this sounds like a student film, 379 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.079 or this sounds like a lower budget. 380 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:09.559 Yeah, it was very dated, overly sympthesized. 381 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:11.640 Yeah, definitely. 382 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.839 But yeah. One thing that was also but I don't 383 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:16.880 know if you noticed, is maybe because obviously it's not 384 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.839 shot in four K, but the actors are never sweating. 385 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.960 Did you guys notice this? 386 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.119 I just noticed how big something does. Hair keeps getting 387 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.559 through them, it keeps standing up more and more. He 388 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.759 is fucking fantastic. I really like him. 389 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.039 Did you ever remember seeing him in anything we played? 390 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:39.000 Do Defy? 391 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:41.119 It's Dad in the Crown now on Netflix. 392 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.640 Oh I didn't see that. 393 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.599 I mean neither, because I don't like movies about monarchs. 394 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.759 But so he specializes in playing Egyptians. 395 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.079 I suppose. 396 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:59.039 Yeah, No, I can't think of any other. He looks familiar, though. 397 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.000 It looks very familiar, and this was one of his 398 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:04.839 earliest roles. I think he only had one credited role 399 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.319 before this. 400 00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:08.720 Yeah, there were other Polician actors that could have went 401 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:12.640