1 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,039 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,039 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:32,280 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:37,119 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:40,679 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:44,119 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,119 Our guest today is Hans von Spakowski, manager of the 9 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:52,479 Heritage Foundation's Election Law Reform Initiative and senior legal fellow 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,600 and the Edwin Meets the Third Center for Legal and 11 00:00:55,719 --> 00:01:03,719 Judicial Studies. Our topic today the weaponization of justice in America, 12 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:10,239 the political motion therein, and some very stunning news on 13 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,239 that front of course this week. Cons thank you for 14 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,599 joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 15 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,599 Speaker 2: Well man, listen, I have to tell you before I 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,640 say thank you. Look, you do a great job at 17 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,359 the Federalist, particularly. I mean, you cover a lot of things, 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,120 but your articles about elections are always very insightful and 19 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,079 full of a lot of information, so I actually appreciate 20 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,280 the work you do over there. 21 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you very much. And you know, you 22 00:01:36,239 --> 00:01:38,239 and I have known each other for a long time 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:43,079 and we have covered and talked about everything from John 24 00:01:43,159 --> 00:01:51,319 Doe investigations, the weaponization of government in Wisconsin years ago, 25 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,879 you know, all the way to what's being writ large 26 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,040 of course across America during the Trump era. And you know, 27 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,040 my reporting is very much tied into the good sources 28 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:05,239 I have, and I think you are. I always have 29 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,920 thought you are at the top of my list when 30 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,719 it comes to the sourcing on this stuff. 31 00:02:10,159 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that, but in fact, listen, I'm glad 32 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:17,159 you mentioned what happened in Wisconsin, the John Doe investigations, 33 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,560 which was the. 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,479 Speaker 3: Very political. 35 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: Local district attorney an attorney there and there was a 36 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:33,199 Dane County who basically was doing political persecutions of conservative organizations, 37 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,719 and I think that was like a model for the 38 00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:38,120 Biden Justice Department. 39 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,759 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. In fact, Tom Tiffany, who's 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,520 a congressman from Wisconsin, I tell this story often, but 41 00:02:45,879 --> 00:02:49,560 I think it bears repeating because you know, it was 42 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,639 so prescient at the time. This was before he was 43 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:57,039 a congressman from the seventh Congressional District, and you know 44 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,719 Tom is now a candidate for governor in Wisconsin, but 45 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,199 I remember him telling me as I was talking to him. 46 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:08,240 He was in Washington, d C. For Trump's first inauguration, 47 00:03:09,159 --> 00:03:13,240 and I said, wow, what do you expect with all 48 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,120 of these protests and things starting, you know on that day. 49 00:03:17,159 --> 00:03:19,599 We remember the pink hat ladies and all of that 50 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,400 sort of thing. And he said to me, Matt, what 51 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:25,479 we saw over the last several years in the state 52 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:31,000 of Wisconsin through the unconstitutional John Doe investigations into at 53 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,199 that time was a governor Scott Walker, Republican. He said, 54 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:39,280 we're about to see that writ large in America. And boy, 55 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:45,080 was Tom Tiffany ever wright about that. I mean, impeachments, 56 00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:52,400 Russia collusion, you know, the insanity of two thousand and twenty, 57 00:03:53,159 --> 00:03:56,479 and then you know the years after and what Jack 58 00:03:56,599 --> 00:04:01,639 Smith was doing in the name of as they were 59 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,639 calling it, the name of justice. I mean, it's just 60 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,439 it's one thing after the rate on mar Lago. It's 61 00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:10,840 one thing after another. And now here we are, you know, 62 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,360 the better part of a decade into the Trump era, 63 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,519 and we see a guy like James Comy, the disgraced 64 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:26,639 FBI director, former FBI director now facing charges, I'll start there. 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,360 What do you think of that case, Hans, And do 66 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:37,240 you think there will actually be accountability for guys like 67 00:04:37,439 --> 00:04:39,319 James Comy? 68 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 2: Well, I will tell you that I think James Comy 69 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,040 is guilty, but proving that it may be very tough 70 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,360 for the Justice Department. And what I mean by that is, look, 71 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,240 it's a very short indictment. They filed it right before 72 00:04:51,319 --> 00:04:54,519 the five year statute limitations was going to run. We 73 00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:58,240 might see a superseding indictment with more details. But es 74 00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:03,800 since he was charged with providing false statements lying during 75 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,199 a congressional hearing, and when you testify a congressional hero, 76 00:05:07,319 --> 00:05:10,120 you're doing so under oath. And what was he asked 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,560 about and what were the things that he the government 78 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,680 claims he lied about. Well, one wash, did you authorize 79 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:25,079 leaks of internal FBI memos, all of this being related 80 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,920 to Hillary Clinton, the Trump Russia collusion hoax, et cetera. 81 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,519 And he said, oh, no, I never did that. Well, 82 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,759 we know that's not true. Every what he said he 83 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,800 did leak internal memos. In fact, I think at one 84 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,079 point there may have been an Inspector General report who 85 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,240 criticized him for doing that. And then the other question 86 00:05:46,519 --> 00:05:49,920 was related to the fact that, you know what, what 87 00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:54,560 got that whole Russia Trump investigation. 88 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: Going on was what are the FBI used. 89 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:03,319 Speaker 2: To justify that the Steele dose right, the opposition research 90 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:09,240 basically created out of whole cloth by the Hillary Clinton campaign. Yea, 91 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:15,639 and Hillary Clinton apparely approved the use of that false 92 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,240 dulsier to feed it to the FBI so that an 93 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,800 investigation would get going. And he denies Komi that he 94 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,720 knew that. Well, again, there have been all these internal 95 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,240 communications that have been released showing that he knew that exactly. 96 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 3: But the problem is. 97 00:06:35,959 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: The federal statutes under which he's been charged have a 98 00:06:39,519 --> 00:06:42,879 very high evidentiary standard. I mean, you have to show 99 00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:47,879 that the person knew that he was lying at the time, 100 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:51,600 was making a false statement, that he did so intentionally 101 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:55,879 in order to deceive, and that the statements were in 102 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,920 fact false. There's the reason that's such a tough state, 103 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,079 and it is because if there's any kind of impreciseness 104 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,480 in the question that was asked and impreciseness in the answer, 105 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,720 you can't really meet the standards of the statute. So 106 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,959 it's difficult and Yeah, he was arraigned. As you know, 107 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,519 he's pleaded not guilty. I think the judge set a 108 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,000 trial date for January, but there's a lot of time 109 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,920 between now in January, and his lawyer has already said 110 00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:36,160 that he's going to file a flurry of motions claiming 111 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:39,800 things like this is a vindictive prosecution, that it's not 112 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,360 valid because he claims that the acting US Attorney who 113 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:51,120 is in charge of this was improperly appointed by the president. 114 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,800 And look, I don't know what the judge is going 115 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:58,600 to do. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised and that this 116 00:07:58,759 --> 00:08:02,319 judge acts. But this was a Biden as a Biden 117 00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:07,279 judge used to be a federal public defender. And you know, Matt, 118 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:09,560 what have we seen in the first six months of 119 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,439 the Trump administration. What have we seen about the behavior 120 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:13,399 of Biden judges. 121 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's been amazing. I mean, they have, in 122 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:22,639 their own way, been complicit in the weaponization of you know, 123 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,920 justice in America. And you're right, I mean, I don't 124 00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:30,000 have a lot of faith in a Biden judge. I 125 00:08:30,079 --> 00:08:33,519 don't have a lot of faith in DC circuit judges, 126 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:37,879 circuit judges in general that we've seen over and over again, 127 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,840 like you said, over the first opening months of the 128 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:46,440 Trump administration Trump two point zero. But I'm curious. You 129 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:52,200 worked in in the Justice Department, and what are you 130 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,440 hearing from your sources therein Do you think they have 131 00:08:56,919 --> 00:09:01,799 the goods? Do they have the documents, the evidence to 132 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,519 definitively show that intent was indeed there? 133 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:12,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they do. But keep in mind another 134 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:18,679 problem that this Justice Department is basic. They are completely overwhelmed. 135 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:24,080 And the reason for that is that, look, you know, 136 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,039 I worked at the Justice Department for four years. I 137 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,559 was actually a career lawyer there. The career staff there 138 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:35,720 was overwhelmingly left wing ideologues, and apparently so many of 139 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:41,759 them have quit because they refuse to work for Donald Trump, 140 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,639 which tells you something about their ideology that they are 141 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,120 really shorthanded when it comes to good lawyers and lawyers 142 00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:52,200 who are willing to. 143 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,519 Speaker 3: Pursue these cases. 144 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: I mean the number of lawyers who have left, I've 145 00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:59,840 never seen such a large number leaving the billing. 146 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 3: Now, oh, the one had that's good. I know many of. 147 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 2: These biased lawyers who left it. I like, going, thank goodness, 148 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,480 they're finally gone. But that leaves the political appointees there, 149 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,440 folks that are trying to do the right thing here. 150 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,399 It leaves them very shorthanded. So that that makes all 151 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,600 these cases very tough. 152 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much. So you think you'd rather have these 153 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:29,080 kinds of soiled lawyers out of the Department than in. 154 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:35,279 But the resource issue is definitely a question. Wow, this 155 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,799 week was something else that you think we would be 156 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:44,600 here in America. An explosive FBI document obtained by Senate 157 00:10:44,639 --> 00:10:49,840 Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, Republican from Iowa, reveals the 158 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:56,639 FBI the Biden FBI targeted eight Republican senators personal cell 159 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:03,000 phones for tolling data part of the Arctic Frost investigation. 160 00:11:03,799 --> 00:11:08,360 One Republican member of the House of Representatives was also impacted. 161 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,960 If you'll recall, the Arctic Frost investigation form the basis 162 00:11:14,039 --> 00:11:19,720 of Jack Smith's elector case against President Donald Trump. I 163 00:11:19,919 --> 00:11:24,080 talked to one of the individuals who was spied upon 164 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,600 targeted in that case today, Senator Ron Johnson, the senior 165 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:34,679 Senator from Wisconsin. I asked him, how does it feel 166 00:11:34,759 --> 00:11:39,879 to be spied upon by your government? And sadly, Senator 167 00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:44,559 Johnson said, I'm not surprised. Are you surprised by any 168 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:44,799 of this? 169 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: No, but I'm outraged by it. 170 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,759 Speaker 2: Look, I, as we discussed, I worked at the Department 171 00:11:51,759 --> 00:11:54,679 of Justice. The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, 172 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,960 and it's the most powerful law enforcement agency in America. 173 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,879 It can if you have prosecutors and agents who are 174 00:12:03,879 --> 00:12:08,399 willing to abuse their powers, it can ruin you and 175 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,919 your life. They can ruin you personally, they can ruin 176 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:18,080 you professionally. And to have news come out that Jack 177 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:26,879 Smith actually was spying on members of the US Congress. 178 00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: And why was he spying on them? 179 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: Why because they raised questions about the outcome of the 180 00:12:32,159 --> 00:12:36,519 twenty twenty election. That is one of the most outrageous 181 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,639 and one of the most dangerous developments that we have 182 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,720 had in law enforcement in this country in a long 183 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:44,639 long time. 184 00:12:44,919 --> 00:12:47,159 Speaker 3: But Matt, don't forget. 185 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is outrageous, but it's also just as outrageous. 186 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:58,840 Ruber Chuck Grassley two weeks ago released information that he 187 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:03,720 didn't just spy these members of Congress, he did the 188 00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:10,000 same thing with almost a hundred conservative organizations, yes, sending 189 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:14,600 out secret subpoenas to get, for example, their bank records, 190 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:21,799 including the Republican Attorney Generals Association, you know, the organization 191 00:13:21,919 --> 00:13:25,639 represents state attorney generals, and he was spying on them. 192 00:13:25,799 --> 00:13:30,039 In fact, another organization that was I couldn't believe it 193 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,639 I saw on the list was an organization, you know, 194 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,039 I'm very familiar with Public Interest Legal Foundation, you know 195 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,919 Jay Christian Adams right. 196 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: They had no legal. 197 00:13:41,919 --> 00:13:47,799 Speaker 2: Justification whatsoever for issuing those kind of secret subpoenas. And 198 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:52,240 you know what's even just as bad is the fact 199 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:58,759 that apparently none of the banks notified their customers, so 200 00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:01,159 the customers would have had had a chance to fight 201 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,360 those SIPs and do something about it. I got to 202 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:11,799 tell you, I would recommend any organization that was targeted 203 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:12,159 by this. 204 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,799 Speaker 3: Your rank didn't notify you. 205 00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: You ought to change banks, and you should tell them 206 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,679 why you're changing banks. 207 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,519 Speaker 4: Should property taxes just come to an end? 208 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:26,679 Speaker 5: The Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every 209 00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:29,480 day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the 210 00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:31,240 economy and how it affects your wallet. 211 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:34,399 Speaker 4: Truly, owning your own home shouldn't be a piggy bank 212 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,279 for government to extract revenue. Property taxes will forever make 213 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,000 you not an owner. Just nothing more than a surf 214 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,080 on the lord's manner. 215 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 5: Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 216 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:45,480 it's affecting you financially. 217 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 4: Be informed. 218 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:48,279 Speaker 5: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 219 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,320 Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 220 00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:58,879 Speaker 1: No doubt about it. I certainly would be making the 221 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:03,919 move of my finance is if my bank allows a 222 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,039 weaponized government, the government to spy on me, I certainly 223 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,639 would be changing my financial institution, that's for sure. But 224 00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:18,360 that's you know, the more things change, Johns, the more 225 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:22,840 they stay the same. This sounds very reminiscent of what 226 00:15:22,879 --> 00:15:27,600 we saw in you know, twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, when 227 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,960 we had the Obama Justice Department targeting conservative groups across 228 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:34,919 the country because they had hatriot in their name or 229 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,559 tea party in their name. It just happens over and 230 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,519 over again. And for folks you know who are talking 231 00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:45,639 about the left in this country, you know, the Biden administration, 232 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,279 the weaponization of government, the Biden administration was just really 233 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,039 in that regard and in so many regards the third term, 234 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,559 the extension of the Obama years, was it not? 235 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:58,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was? 236 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:03,639 Speaker 2: And thing I want to say to folks, because I 237 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,840 I was talking to reporters about this kind of thing 238 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:10,759 the last couple of days since Comy Wash went in 239 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:13,480 for his arrayment, and particularly for example, I talked to 240 00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:17,039 somebody from the BBC and they were saying, oh, well, 241 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,519 you know, the fact that Komy's been diet isn't that 242 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:22,919 just weaponization of the just spart And I said, no, 243 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,279 it's not. It is not weaponization. When you are trying 244 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:34,679 to bring justice against individuals who in fact engaged in 245 00:16:34,799 --> 00:16:41,159 weaponized investigations and prosecutions, that's not weaponization. That's trying to 246 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:47,679 stop the weaponization that occurred and frankly deter federal employees 247 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,600 in the from doing this kind. 248 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: Of thing in the future. 249 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: But that's amazing to me. And it's you're right, it's 250 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,679 the BBC, at CNN, it's the New York Times, the 251 00:16:57,799 --> 00:17:01,840 Washington Post. Why do think that first see and certainly 252 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,440 why do you then ever report on the weaponization that 253 00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:09,799 occurred that took place that now the Trump administration is 254 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:15,000 trying to hold to account. Not only did they ignore it, 255 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,920 I think in many regards they were complicit in it. 256 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,359 When you take a look at oh I don't know 257 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:28,079 the Hunter Biden laptop issue, or how deep they were 258 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,640 in on the Russia collusion hoax. It is just amazing 259 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:37,119 to me and for anybody who has followed any of 260 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:43,519 this at all, to look at the allegations of weaponization 261 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:51,039 of the Trump Justice Department, it's just absolutely ignoring how 262 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:56,920 we got here to try to hold these individuals into account. 263 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:04,119 How does the Trump Justice Department deal with that kind 264 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,519 of thing as they tried to go about getting justice. 265 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 2: They just keep going forward, and that has been one 266 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,920 of the best things, frankly about the administration is that 267 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,960 they don't back down. And you know, it's not just 268 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,640 that the liberal media sources were ignoring it. They approved it. 269 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,400 They approved the weaponization. They liked they liked the fact that, 270 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,880 for example, you know, they're overwhelmingly pro abortion, so they 271 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:39,519 liked the fact that prior administration was abusing the Face Act, 272 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:44,119 which is a federal law involving violence at churches and 273 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,880 abortion facilities, a law which specifically says this is not 274 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:54,640 applied to peaceful First Amendment activity. And yet they filed 275 00:18:54,759 --> 00:19:02,079 criminal prosecution after criminal prosecution against anti abortion individuals who 276 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,720 were outside of abortion clinics, not engaging in any violence, 277 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,319 not blocking access, but simply engaging in prayers and other things. 278 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:16,079 And did the Washington Posts, did CNN? Did they get 279 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,519 outraged about that? No, they thought it was a great thing. 280 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that really shows their stripes. Our guest today is 281 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,279 Hans van Spokanski, manager of the Heritage Foundation's Election Law 282 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,680 Reform Initiative and senior legal fellow in the Edwin Mees 283 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:35,079 Third Center for Legal and Judicial Studies. Hans, you have 284 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,720 been in this business for a long time. Does anything 285 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,279 surprise you about these revelations that we've seen? And we're 286 00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:47,480 getting these revelations of course because the American people said 287 00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:51,640 enough is enough on a number of levels, and so 288 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,359 the Trump administration is able to get this information out 289 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,200 to the public. This is the sort of stuff that 290 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,200 that would have been buried for a very long time 291 00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:06,960 had there not been a sea change. But is this 292 00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:12,039 about as bad as it can get in your estimation? 293 00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: Yes, the answer to that is yes. 294 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: And and you know, I keep thinking about the fact 295 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,599 that if Kamala Harris had won, not only would we 296 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,160 not know about this, yeah, but this kind of of 297 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:31,160 misbehavior would have continued. And and that's that scares me. 298 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,799 It scares me because again I've seen from the inside 299 00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:40,319 the power of federal law enforcement like the Justice Department 300 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,680 and the FBI, and when it is in the hands 301 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,000 of individuals who are willing to use it to go 302 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:53,319 after political opponents, for example, there's nothing worse than that 303 00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:59,519 that that is just so dangerous to our democratic republic. 304 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 3: And the and the way we do things. 305 00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 2: And thank goodness they're making this kind of thing public. 306 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:08,000 I mean, I think Chuck Grassley, who's always just been 307 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,160 terrific in getting out information from whistleblowers, and kudos to 308 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,079 Cash Patel for combing through internal records there and also 309 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,799 making this public, because if they weren't doing that, we 310 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,319 wouldn't know about this, and the chances that it could 311 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,000 be repeated would unfortunately be very great. 312 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: Well, and we know too that it's not just weaponization 313 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,200 at the federal level. The Biden administration obviously had a 314 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:42,799 lot of allies and friends in places like Manhattan, Madison, Wisconsin. 315 00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:47,799 And I think about the weaponization of one of the 316 00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:51,960 most ridiculous eras. We've talked about this on a number 317 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,759 of occasions. You have written multiple columns on this front. 318 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:03,559 It's the whole phony fake elector's narrative we have and 319 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,880 he's not alone. But I think about Jim Troops, the 320 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,599 well regarded, well respected judge in Dane County in Madison, Wisconsin, 321 00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:17,960 whose only crime was the fact that he stepped up 322 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,559 when no one else would to represent President Donald Trump 323 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:30,799 in his understandable and rightful concerns about the integrity of 324 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:34,279 the twenty twenty election. And whether you agree with any 325 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,039 of that or not, Donald Trump, just like anybody else, 326 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:40,440 has the right to be represented and to hear his case. 327 00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:43,880 Jim troopis a former Dane County judge, stood up and 328 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:44,200 did that. 329 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,079 Speaker 3: He worked with. 330 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:51,519 Speaker 1: Ken Cheesebro and now they are facing a serious prison 331 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,200 time simply because they were trying to defend their client 332 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,880 and use alternate electors, as has been done in the 333 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,400 past in presidential elections in this country, to secure their 334 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,039 client's position while the court challenges played out. But you 335 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:16,240 have this again, this highly partisan Attorney General, Josh Call 336 00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:22,720 from the state of Wisconsin, languishing and pushing this incredibly 337 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,119 twisted case about you know, fraud and other things. And 338 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,640 this case continues to go on. Where do you see 339 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,079 all of that playing out in terms of the nationwide 340 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,720 weaponization of justice. 341 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:42,599 Speaker 3: Well, that is also a terrible development. 342 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: Now, as you probably saw recently, Matt, you know the 343 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,440 horrible Attorney general Michigan try to do the same thing. 344 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,039 Speaker 3: And what happened recently, Judge threw it all out. 345 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: Yep, threw it all out because it was such a frivolous, 346 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:04,640 meritless criminal prosecution. Look, this, this is this is very problematic. 347 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:12,720 You would think that bar associations would be outraged over this. Unfortunately, 348 00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:15,480 so many of them have been taken over by the 349 00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:20,000 political left that when they have lawyers being prosecuted for 350 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,079 doing what representing a client vigorously, they're not saying anything 351 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,279 about it. I actually I haven't looked at this, and 352 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,880 I'm focused on this the way I should. But boy, 353 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,720 I think the US Justice Department ought to look at 354 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,640 those prosecutions and see if they're if they believe there's 355 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,519 any kind of violation of any applical federal law being 356 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,759 being violated by these prosecutors, including these Attorney generals, because 357 00:24:51,799 --> 00:24:56,559 I think actually they are violating these civil rights of 358 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,359 these lawyers and their clients by trying to prevent them 359 00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:04,400 from having sufficient legal representation. 360 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you said, before. I mean, really, the 361 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,640 process is the punishment. I don't know how in any 362 00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:14,839 real court. I'm not talking about a Dane County or 363 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,680 Manhattan court, kangaroo court, but any real court, I don't 364 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,000 know how you get convictions. Like you said, Michigan threw 365 00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,279 the whole thing out because it's garbage. It's garbage in Madison, 366 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,279 it's garbage in Arizona where they have cases like this. 367 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,319 They proved the show and it was garbage in Nevada. 368 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,599 But this is a targeted effort, and I just you know, 369 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,640 you think about how they can financially cripple someone because 370 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,960 you have to spend so much money defending yourself. We 371 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,480 know that where do you go to get your reputation back? 372 00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:54,079 All of those kinds of things. So it's just awful. 373 00:25:54,200 --> 00:26:01,759 But I always do Conservatives not yet fully understand that 374 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,920 the left in this regard when it comes to law 375 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,400 fair will never ever stop unless they are truly held accountable. 376 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: No, that is absolutely right, and that needs to happen. 377 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:22,519 By the way, something else that ought to happen for 378 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:27,640 those who were wrongly prosecuted. I actually should should say persecuted, 379 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,640 because prosecuted is giving too much credit by Jack Smith 380 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:37,000 and others. All of them should get together, they should 381 00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:40,440 file suits against the Justice Department of the federal government. 382 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,839 And you know what Pamboni and the dust barant to do. 383 00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:47,119 They ought to settle every one of those cases. They 384 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,799 ought to say, you know, you're right, you are improperly prosecuted, 385 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,279 and we're happy to settle the case and pay you, 386 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,000 reimburse you, for example, for all your attorneyses and costs. 387 00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:05,319 I haven't seen that being done in any of these cases, 388 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,920 and it ought to be that. You know, that can't 389 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:15,000 fully compensate the folks who were the products of these 390 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,559 kind of persecutions, whether they were people improperly prosecuted under 391 00:27:19,559 --> 00:27:25,200 the Face Act or other prosecutions like that. But that 392 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,200 would be one way to write the ship of justice 393 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,599 and the terrible things that were done. 394 00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:36,599 Speaker 1: Well, these people were, as you say, truly persecuted and 395 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,759 are still being persecuted. And I think about what the 396 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,039 Biden Justice depart They did exactly that with the likes 397 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:50,680 of Peter Struck and his paramore Misspage. They got a 398 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,960 lot of money and look at the emails, Look how 399 00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:58,880 politically motivated they were. They ended up getting a huge 400 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:03,519 settlement there. So what would you say to again, to 401 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,359 individuals who say, well, of course the Trump Justice Department 402 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,119 would do something like that, they're going to take care 403 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,920 of their allies, when we have seen that actually truly 404 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,519 done in the Biden administration. 405 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, except with those cases that they Look Peter Scharck 406 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,799 and his girlfriend, they sued claiming they'd been wrongfully terminated. 407 00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:32,440 They weren't wrongfully terminating. If they were terminated for behavior 408 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:38,200 unbecoming to FBI agents, that case should never have been settled. 409 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,119 It should never have been paid off. That is very 410 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,160 different from the claims it could be made by those 411 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:51,480 who actually were wrongfully prosecuted and persecuted by the Biden administration. 412 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,079 They I think have legitimate claims, and those claims ought 413 00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:58,720 to be settled. That's very different from the but what 414 00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,680 we're basically pay off in these other cases. 415 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:05,839 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, do you think Attorney General 416 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,920 Pam Bond, the FBI Director Cash Fattel, and his assistant 417 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,039 Dan Bongino, do you think they have enough time to 418 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:21,240 truly clean out this corrupt agency in the FBI and 419 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,079 the corrupt corners of the Justice Department. 420 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: Look, they're making the effort to do it. But I 421 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,720 don't think people understand just how large, how large the 422 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,240 Justice Department is, and how many agents are in the FBI. 423 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,960 So I think they're making a valiant effort to do it. 424 00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:44,799 I don't know whether they're going to have enough enough 425 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:47,319 time to do it. You know what I kind of 426 00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:52,200 hope is that, Yeah, this president's term is over in 427 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,839 twenty twenty eight, but I'm hoping that whoever succeeds him 428 00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:01,279 has exactly the same views when it comes to cleaning 429 00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:04,359 up the Just Department and the FBI. 430 00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: There is, of course, as well, the main issue that 431 00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:16,559 President Trump campaigned on in his Justice Department is trying 432 00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:20,319 its best to accomplish. I know it's an uphill battle, 433 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,359 but to take on the crime and the violence, the 434 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,759 radical violence going on in our cities across the country, 435 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:35,200 from Portland to Chicago to New York. We saw in 436 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:42,400 Boston recently. Again, is this Justice Department stretched too thin 437 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,839 with some very ambitious goals. 438 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,599 Speaker 2: Well, look there they're desperate, I think, to hire more people, 439 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:53,720 and they need them. 440 00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 3: But so far they've. 441 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,799 Speaker 2: Done a very good job of fighting back against the 442 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,400 often frivolous, meritless. 443 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: Lawsuits that have been filed against them. 444 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: I've actually been favorably impressed at how hard they have 445 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,519 fought back. And the result of that is something mad 446 00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:16,240 I know you've seen that. Remember, the Supreme Court takes 447 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,599 the summers off, but they have an emergency docket, that's 448 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,680 a docket where people file emergency appeals. That docket has 449 00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:30,079 been the busiest I have ever seen it. Why well, 450 00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:35,599 because every single time some nutty district court judge has 451 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,799 issued an injunction against something that the Trump administration is doing, 452 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,160 the just fartman has been filing emergency appeals with the 453 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,480 Supreme Court asking them to stay or suspend that injunction. 454 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,200 And they have been remarkably effective the Trump administration. They 455 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,440 may be losing before these district court judges, but they 456 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,720 are winning at the Supreme Court. And that tells you 457 00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:08,559 that they've been doing a pretty good job in the 458 00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:14,160 court battling what I would call rogue federal judges. 459 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they've had some success at the appeals level 460 00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:21,200 as well, and that's really really part of it too. 461 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,799 The Supreme Court this past summer, I think, had a 462 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,799 critical ruling on that front on these national you know, 463 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:39,200 just broad scope injunctions or you know that we've seen 464 00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:44,720 from from the lower courts, as you have observed, is 465 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,559 that making a difference, because there's the other side of that. 466 00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:52,680 You have the Trump administration filing a record number of 467 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:57,519 these challenges. But the law fare has just absolutely from 468 00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:59,599 the left has just exploded. 469 00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it has. 470 00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, that decision by Supreme Court didn't go far enough 471 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,359 and it has not seemingly curbed many of the federal 472 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:16,079 district court judges who still issue what are clearly wrong decisions. 473 00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:20,480 Can I can I give you an easy example of one. Oh, yeah, absolutely, 474 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,519 because look, this is this is an area of the 475 00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:26,720 law that's not gray, it's not this is black and white. 476 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,720 But it shows you how federal judges just ignore the law. 477 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,000 Just recently, the super US Supreme Court issued a stay 478 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,839 or suspension of an injunction that was issued by a 479 00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:46,000 judge out in California and was upheld by the Ninth 480 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:51,240 Circuit Court of Appeals. Secretary Nome of DHS had ended 481 00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:56,480 what's called TSP temporary I'm sorry TPS temporary protected status 482 00:33:56,519 --> 00:34:00,359 of Venezuelans. There's a federal statute that a lot allows 483 00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:06,319 the president to provide temporary lawful presence in the US 484 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,320 to aliens who otherwise would be here illegally if, for example, 485 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,800 they can't return to their country because of a hurricane 486 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,320 or an armed conflict going on. That's how a lot 487 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,639 of Haitians, you know, came to the US legally for 488 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,199 a while because of the big hurricane. 489 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: That hit right. 490 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: TPS had been granted to Venezuelans. Biden administration extended it, 491 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,039 Secretary Nome ended it, and you had these judges say, oh, 492 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:39,000 you can't do that. We're sharing an injunction. You can't 493 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:45,400 end the TBS status Venezuelans. The federal law that sets 494 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,199 up and gives the precedent the power to do this 495 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:55,599 has specific language Matt saying it is the Secretary of 496 00:34:55,679 --> 00:35:00,239 DHS and the President have the sole discretion to decide 497 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:04,400 whether to grant TPS and whether to end it. And 498 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,519 then it says no court, no court shall have jurisdiction 499 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,880 to review the granting of TPS or the suspension. In 500 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:20,679 other words, Congress told the court can't you can't decide this. 501 00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:23,559 Your jurisdiction is stripped. 502 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 3: And yet these. 503 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 2: Courts ignored that to issue an injunction, that shows you 504 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,639 how bad. Unfortunately, too many of the judges are in 505 00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:33,559 the federal system. 506 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's because those judges have a case 507 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,920 of TEDS Trump derangement syndrome as they're doing this. But 508 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,400 that's absolutely right. How are they getting away with this? 509 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,320 Because if a president and so many of these executive orders, 510 00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:58,519 you know, Joe Biden came in and removed all kinds 511 00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:02,039 of executive ended all kinds of executive orders of the president. 512 00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:06,719 President Trump came back in did the same thing. That 513 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,360 is the power of the second branch. The executive branch 514 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,800 has that authority, the president has that authority. How do 515 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:20,039 how have we gotten these kinds of judges that are 516 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:27,480 so transparently partisan that they will absolutely ignore the law 517 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:33,559 to rewrite their own law for their own preferences. Is 518 00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:39,320 it the American Bar Association? The schools? What's going on here? 519 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: Well, for one thing, it's the law schools. Christian Adams 520 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,480 and I I think last year wrote a ten article 521 00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:53,920 series for PJMRIA PJ Media where we looked at the 522 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,840 ten top rated law schools in the country, which are 523 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,960 almost you know, all the ivy leagues, places like Stanford also, 524 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,599 and what do we do? We simply looked at the 525 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:08,480 curriculums what are the courses being taught. You would not 526 00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:13,840 believe the courses that are being taught as a standard 527 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,199 courses at these law schools. 528 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,039 Speaker 3: It is all. 529 00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 2: Left wing, woke ideology. It has turned these law schools 530 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,159 into training camps for social justice warriors. And anybody thinks 531 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:34,239 I'm exaggerating, just read a couple of those articles where 532 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,400 we cite the actual courses being taught, the courses all 533 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,599 these law schools basically teaching law students that the United 534 00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:49,000 States is a white supremacist society. It is a society 535 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,679 in which discrimination is everywhere. The justice system is completely racist. 536 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,440 Prisons should be closed, police should be defunded. All the 537 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,320 things we've been seeing that is the standard thing being 538 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,599 taught in law schools. And those are the people from 539 00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,679 those law schools that the Biden administration before them, the 540 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:14,079 Obama administration said, Uh, these folks will be ideal federal judges. 541 00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:16,800 Why is They're not going to pay any attention to 542 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,079 the actual law. They're not going to pay any attention 543 00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:23,880 to the Constitution. They are going to issue rulings that 544 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,920 put in the kind of policies that we want and 545 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,159 that maybe we can't achieve through the regular political process. 546 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you've seen some of the coursework, the 547 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,039 syllabus of these classes, you know exactly what Hans is 548 00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:48,960 talking about. But I think that these future lawyers going 549 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:55,639 into these law schools are primed already from the public 550 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,519 education system right in the United States, and there in 551 00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:03,199 lies the problem. And here's my final question for you. 552 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,920 If you've had already a couple few generations of this 553 00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:15,599 inculcation at the law school level and at the you know, 554 00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:19,320 high school level, but before they get in at the 555 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:25,000 college level, the Bachelor of Arts and Science level, how 556 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,159 do we go about saving this republic? Because there is 557 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,320 much to worry about with you know, the next generation 558 00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:38,719 and the generation after that believing in this stuff. 559 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,679 Speaker 2: Look, that's all true, and this is not an easy job. 560 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,920 But look we've already seen the ways to do it. 561 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,400 Remember when Trump came in, he basically is issued executive 562 00:39:50,559 --> 00:39:57,480 orders driving woke ideology DEI training out of the federal government, 563 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,440 which is a great thing, and we see that now 564 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,360 happening in many states with state government. Rohnda Sanders in 565 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:11,760 Florida has been very strong about that. That's the method 566 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,559 of trying to clean up the colleges and also the 567 00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:19,639 high schools to do it, and unfortunately, there does seem 568 00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:24,599 to be a great resurgence going on among young people. 569 00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:28,360 I mean, think about the fact that Donald Trump, one 570 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,079 of the first Republican presence a long time, was getting 571 00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:36,440 a majority of the votes of young people, and that 572 00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:38,559 tells you that the. 573 00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 3: Game is not lost. 574 00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 2: We are in a battle for the heart and soul 575 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,679 of America. But I actually think we are making progress, 576 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:53,079 and I think the other side has been retreating, and that, actually, 577 00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:56,719 I think is why we have seen so much violence 578 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,760 from the left. I think they are desperate, and I 579 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,760 think that violence that they are now instigating and encouraging 580 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,840 is a sign of their frustration with the fact that 581 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:14,280 they are losing many political battles and frankly the public 582 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,480 relations battle too. 583 00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: You're right, they are retreating and they are reeling, and 584 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:27,559 it's like when you got a rat cornered, it's going 585 00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,320 to fight, and we're seeing that with the violence in 586 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,920 the streets of Portland to the left wing assassination culture, 587 00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:41,400 unfortunately we're seeing play out right now. But as Hans said, 588 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,840 there's a reason for that. Well, thanks to my guest today, 589 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,920 Hans von Spakowski, manager of the Heritage Foundation's Election Law 590 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,559 Reform Initiative and Senior Legal Fellow, and the Edwin Meese 591 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:55,960 the Third Center for Legal and Judicial Studies. You've been 592 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,760 listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm 593 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,800 Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be 594 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,880 back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom 595 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,280 and anxious for the frame. 596 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 3: I heard the 597 00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 2: Fame, voice the reason, and then it faded away.